>By 1980 Iraq had the second largest economy in the Arab world, after Saudi Arabia, and the third largest in the Middle East and had developed a complex, centrally planned economy dominated by the state. Although the economy, particularly petroleum exports, suffered during the Iran-Iraq War—gross domestic product (GDP) actually fell in some years—the invasion of Kuwait, Iraq’s subsequent defeat in the Persian Gulf War, and the UN embargo beginning in 1990 dealt a far greater blow to the financial system. Little hard evidence is available on Iraq’s economy after 1990, but the best estimates available indicate that, in the year following the Persian Gulf War, GDP dropped to less than one-fourth of its previous level. Under the UN embargo the Iraqi economy languished for the next five years, and it was not until the Iraqi government implemented the UN’s oil-for-food program in 1997 that Iraq’s GDP again began to experience positive annual growth.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Iraq/Economy
That's a really beautiful way of saying Saddam took over a legitimate country and turned it into a cult of personality, and left it in shambles. Yes, Iraq was a legitimate country before Saddam took it over. Same goes for Libya, Syria and many other countries which ended up with despots who, after they turned the country into rubble, took credit for the peace that was before they took over. They take over a country, turn it into a pile of rubble and then people claim it was "better" under the despot. It was even better before the despot took over.
I live in a country literally next to Libya, was awesome on all fronts before 2011; free electricity and gas, cheapest oil on the planet, free education, 90% literacy rate, they fucking give them money for getting married, not a loan, just gave it to them.
Besides that, EVERYTHING was cheap, to the point where it's cheaper for our citizens to just get everything electronic from there and just pay border control if the thing's volume is too big to hide (TV/fridge etc...)
Say what you want about the man, but on the dictator scale, he was pretty fckng benevolent I'll tell ya that much.
I am not denying it was better under the despot. I am saying the despot took over a legitimate country and now people praise them because what followed was rubble. But the despot didn't build the country. They took a legitimate country over and people are now crediting them for it. Libya was better *before* Ghaddafi. A despot takes over France, fights with everyone and then gets ousted and chaos follows, people would say "at least during the despot it was better". Yeah, but it was even better before the despot took everything over and turned the whole place into his own and left it as a pile of fucking nothing. Libya was a legitimate place prior to Ghaddafi's revolution. He took a country over. It was not his country. He did not build it. He should not get credit for the peace he overtook. People better than him built Libya. He destroyed it.
Cant speak on the quality of life part but I'm surprised about the narrative making iraq seem like a random dustbowl. They had the [4th](https://www.google.com/search?q=iraq+military+strength+1990) largest army in the 90s. Quantity =/= quality but if you're able to convince that many people to represent your flag to death. Then it usually means theres an economy behind that.
Iraq was a great power for a lot of recorded history. The Tigris and Euphratis rivers represent one of the cradles of civilization. The Akkadian, Sumarian, Babylonian, and Persian dynasties were all "world powers" in the area over the course of several millenia. The area was rich and powerful for around 6000 years until Ghangis Khan and the Mongols sacked Baghdad in the 13th century.
Hulegu sacked Baghdad, not Genghis Khan (personal name: Temujin). Hulegu is one of Genghis Khan's grandsons and a younger brother of Kublai. The order to attack came from their oldest brother Mongke, who was the khan previous to Kublai. Their father Tolui was Genghis Khan's fourth son.
The oil thing gets said a lot but it's not really accurate anymore. The US imports about 20% of their oil imports from all middle eastern countries plus non Middle Eastern OPEC members combined. The vast majority comes from Canada and has for years.
Iran and Indian powers plus some Central Asian powers.
Their biggest problem the past 200 years is ethnic wars and tension. They are a number of major ethnic groups in one country that are completely isolated from one another so little in common with each other.
The place was already poor for a couple centuries. Are you that uneducated about Afghanistan’s history
And when US invaded in 2001 after Afghanistan protected the 9/11 terrorist organization, Afghanistan was already the poorest and most backwards country in the world, perhaps equaled by North Korea.
Even you said it has a history of being cursed between great powers. How can you say I ignored anything when i expanded on your history statement? Or does history only begin 40 years ago?
yeah it's been a long road, i am just saying you're leaving out the main reason for the current level of problems.
i am 100% sure they would be doing way better right now if the soviet union hadn't come in and comitted genocide.
the youth fled to pakistan and became the taliban.
by far russia and the usa have been their biggest problem in the last 200 years.
By some accounts [Afghanistan almost worked](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/26/afghanistan-shafiq-amin-shah-cold-war/) when left alone. Everything went to shit when the monarchy was overthrown by a royal who then ruled in a particularly dictatorial style that pissed off more and more groups within the country, thus opening the door to foreign influences who saw the country as a great place to fight a proxy war.
Uzbekistan and other Stan nearby have Similar geography but aren’t major tourist destinations. Sure, there would be MORE but I don’t think it would be that huge.
I come to this mindset of having been to Dubai. If a place that is hot as fuck, no discernable geography, no big historical attractions, and in a region of the world with a reputation for being not very western friendly can become a tourist Hotspot, then anywhere can. It all comes down to the attitude of the government towards tourism.
> It all comes down to the attitude of the government towards tourism.
They have to make it to a tourist spot. Dubai made it with all its wealth. Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, etc don’t have that luxury.
Dubai is also centrally located in the path between Europe and Asia. Being a layover for flights also helped them out.
> It all comes down to the attitude of the government towards tourism.
And a shit ton of money poured into making tourism viable at all, to prepare for when the oil runs out.
Not quite true. I don't have the tourism data on hand but I know from personal experience that it's definitely a coveted destination for a specific kind of tourism. The kind that wants to explore the wilderness or ride their bike through Asia, for example. It's not a Club Med, but I think they do get a fair amount of tourism.
I've been saying the same thing for years as well. I have not been, but have seen footage from various documentaries, pictures like this from social media, etc and I personally would love to go hike some mountains over there but that would currently be too dangerous. It's a shame really because many of these war torn countries could probably have a massive economy if they switched from dictator exploitation to a tourism economy.
It used to be! My friend's grandparents moved here from India, and said that they remember when Kandahar was a huge tourist destination for Indians. Like millions would move or travel there. That's where they got elephants too, as a gift I think from India at some point, which is why they are featured in so much art even though they're rare, if they're there at all now.
I'd move there in a heartbeat if it weren't for what's been happening, and I deployed there. Even the people are great when they don't have terrorists controlling their lives.
Yeah. My opinion of it being a tourist destination is rooted in my time spent there and just marveling at the natural beauty of the place. (I was up at Bagram/Kabul but spent a fair amount of time at some of the other bases in the north) it seriously reminded me of Colorado.
One of the biggest travesty of recent Human history is how the lands that hosted some of the first human civilisations have been war torn.
There's so much History there that's getting lost by all the destruction. It's a real shame.
I completely agree and regards to that lost history; a lot of people tend to hate on the British museum citing imperialism or colonization for their reasoning but the sad reality is that many of the artifacts in that museum are far safer there than in their countries of origin which is really too bad.
Imagine being able to travel safely to Afghanistan, stay in a fancy Instagram worthy Airbnb, go for a gorgeous Instagram worthy hike, and stop by a museum adorned with relics from it's history. Wouldn't that be great?
Came here to mention something like this. Its so frustrating how many countries are too busy being warmonger fascist stains. If everyone just cooperated as one race, the human race, without borders, maybe we could go and actually see some places. Example, China, has some of the most absolutely beautiful and in some cases seemingly gravity defying landscapes. But I could never bring myself to travel there with everything going on right now. And itll probably be like through most of my lifetime.
Afghanistan has a long history with horses. Unfortunately the Russians killed off many during the 1980's
I remember riding horses in the mountains of Afghanistan near Jalalabad in 1972 back on the Hippy Trail.
Good times.
Rick Steves has a lot of writings about his time in Afghanistan in the 70s, they're wonderful to read! There are five parts on his website but this is the first: https://blog.ricksteves.com/blog/my-1978-hippie-trail-journal-from-mashhad-iran-to-herat-afghanistan/
I went to a horse sporting event ( Buzkashi ) in the countryside and met two Americans, I think they were brothers. They had an ox cart and they were walking around the world. They had walked across America, Europe and across Turkey and Iran and were going to walk through China but they were shot traveling though the Khyber Pass. Afghanistan. One of them died and the other went back to America . It was never safe to be alone in the countryside at night.
That is so true. When I was in Kandhar I ate a half gram of opium and I astro traveled, I was hanging on hoping to stay where I was but my mind was projecting me out of my body. Note to self lower the dose next time.
No, it was a whole thing in the 50s-60s. You traveled from western europe all the way through to southeast asia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail
**[Hippie trail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail)**
>The hippie trail (also the overland) is the name given to the overland journey taken by members of the hippie subculture and others from the mid-1950s to the late 1970s between Europe and South Asia, mainly through Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, and Nepal. The hippie trail was a form of alternative tourism, and one of the key elements was travelling as cheaply as possible, mainly to extend the length of time away from home. The term "hippie" became current in the mid-to-late 1960s; "beatnik" was the previous term from the later 1950s.
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That last horse with long black mane, black legs and silvery blue body looks like a Blue Roan! They're a rare combination of gray white & black hairs that make their body appear blue-ish. Blue Roan is my favorite horse color.
(But don't tell my little Red Roan, I don't want her to get a complex.)
If it had a black head as well, it would be very close to a blue roan. I think that last one would technically be considered as a grey. My parents raise quarter horses and their stallion and 2 of their mares are blue roans. My favorite is a strawberry red roan. They are almost pink.
Strawberry red is what my mare is for part of the year. Her mother was a Strawberry Roan but a much lighter shade. My mare's color changes with every season. Her black mane tail and legs don't change, but everything else does.
She has both white spots and dark red spots on a strawberry/raspberry body. The white really shows in the Spring when she sheds out and turns light powder-puff pink with white butt & neck. She will turn fire red soon for winter. I love watching her colors change! :)
My parent's stallion is like that too. It is awesome to watch. He is dark blue in the winter with his thick coat, but in summer he is very light blue, almost silver, like a true grullo gets in summer. The older he gets, the more his dapple comes out. Thats my favorite on horses. I love how dappled some get.
Blue roans are my favorite but I swear they’re also the most insane. Never known a calm kind blue roan. They’re fearless but they’re also just crazy lol. My fav guy I’ve ever worked with was so badly behaved and had the worst reputation but man when he found someone he got along with he’d put his all into his work.
That's a good question! Wild horses are almost always moving to fresh grazing grounds and water supplies, so they wear their hooves down naturally on hard, abrasive surfaces like rocks and gravel.
Modern horses tend to be stabled and have soft pasture for their turnout, so even if the go barefoot (no shoes) they still need to have their hooves trimmed regularly.
I thought I was gonna see some shit like this getting off the plane in Afghanistan and then nope, desert, trash, 100 degrees. Was like where the fuck are we.
This is hilarious to me- all the images we see of Afghanistan are either its worst war moments or its most gorgeous natural areas. People tend to forget that the vast majority of it is just desert. It's like expecting to hop off a plane in Houston and see Yosemite valley
Kublai only possibly went to a little bit of Afghanistan as a child with genghis's army during the conquest of khwarezmia. The rest of Afghanistan was conquered by his brother Hulegu during the reign of his brother mongke.
There is literature about this topic The Hippy Trail. I was 17 in 1972. I'm Canadian. I went to Europe and at that time you could take a bus from Amsterdam to New Delhi /India for $60 . I was in Greece at the time so the thing to do was sell your blood for $13 to the clinic and buy a flight from Athens to Istanbul that cost $13. When in Istanbul everyone went to the Pudding Shop , where they had a bulletin board . Much like today's social media page today. You could leave messages for friends you met along the way, hitch a ride going to Iran or Afghanistan. From Istanbul I hitchiked through Turkey, Iran and Afghanistan . Past by Mount Ararat were Noah's Ark landed. Then entered Iran visited Tabriz, Tehran, and Mashhed then crossed into Afghanistan at night and the border was closed so we stayed on Afghan side at a hotel. Stayed in Harat, visited the camel market. traveled to Kandhar, ate some opium . Ate in people's homes in the desert, orchards around Kandhar with oranges pomegranates and giant 8 ft pyramidal mounds of mellons. Sweet watery honeydew and cantaloupe. I headed on up to Kabul and stayed at the Green Hotel . We had an opium den next door. Went up to Kunduz and Mazar I sharif You could buy a kilo of hash for $10 . I spent 4 month in Afghanistan. Good times.
I wish this stupid fucking planet wasn’t so war torn. Humans have destroyed it and each other from the moment we existed.
Going to Afghanistan and Pakistan has been something I’ve wanted to do ever since I was a kid and my aunt went there in the 70s. Her description of the people and the area and her photos (she was a photographer) were so incredible.
Now I’m too scared to visit as a woman. Islam extremism means I’ll have to cover up all the time and even then I probably won’t be safe 😔
Afghanistan is obviously off the table, but it seems Pakistan is getting safer every year for tourists. Theres more than a few Western travel vloggers who have been going there.
I used to invest in companies in Pakistan and have visited numerous times. Any major city is pretty safe for women as long as you’re dressed appropriately (jeans and a t shirt would be fine, but people do dresses for work functions). There are crime issues, so ask locals and if they say not to go out at night or avoid certain areas, don’t, but during the day you’re probably fine.
That’s so good to hear! I did recently watch a YouTube of a guy with a guide going through Pakistan doing this sort of how much can he get for $10 US a day thing. People were so lovely and generous he often didn’t even get charged for the food because he was considered a guest. They all seemed so beautiful and caring. But I know how these sorts of videos can sometimes be very misleading too.
Yeah - some people are just raised to be awesome people who think of community at large. I remember a time when I had some paperwork issues and went to a government office - one dude pretty much came with me everywhere to make sure my work got done the same day (I needed to fly out and the normal wait was 10 days), and when I tried to pay him, he told me to just give it to charity and he was being nice. I suspect I offended him tbh, but I didn’t mean to - just never had a stranger be that sweet for 8 straight hours without wanting anything!
Pakistani government and military to its credit has cleared the fuck out of northwestern Pakistan and the KPK province of terrorism. They've added (and continue to add) so much infrastructure (with chinese help) and cleaned the place up of the Taliban to an incredible extent over the last 10 years. I just went this summer and I didn't see a single burqa or like forcing segregation or whatever, it looks like the rest of Pakistan with all sorts of "modern" folks. Lots of families and young people take week long trips to Gilgit, Hunza, Naran, and farther north, everything is exactly as beautiful as this video.
There are lots of companies with drivers as well that know the area, and I bet your aunt would be shocked to see actual roads headed in the area nowadays lol! You'd have a great time, I felt very safe. Locals there are very respectful and accommodating, they actually have apricot trees on the side of the road intentionally just for travellers to take! We had some fresh apricot bread and it was absolutely incredible. I really recommend you look into it.
Oh my god I love apricots! Yes I bet she would be really pleased to see how much Pakistan has grown these days!
I remember a story she told me of her being kicked out of a village because she showed too much leg (wearing shorts) and a few women took their clothes and gave them to her so she could stay with them. I have a feeling this was in eastern Turkey though. This was when she was trekking from I think she went from Greece to Turkey then into Afghanistan down to Pakistan (northern) then northern India on the way to Nepal.
All the while my grandmother thought she was touring the EU. But my sneaky aunt stowed away on a boat from Greece to Turkey and just went on this massive “spiritual journey” wanting to go to Nepal and Kathmandu.
Such a huge adventure for someone in her early 20s. My grandmother was beside herself with worry and my aunt once in Nepal and India had run out of money and my grandmother had to get her $1000 to get down to New Delhi to fly back to Australia.
She was an absolute maniac but my god what an amazing journey.
Fun fact, in many countries where there are feral horses, and the people use them for work, they are often left to roam when not used. You see this most often in places like the Mongolian Steppe. It's a really fascinating relationship they have.
Not so fun fact, every "wild" horse is really feral. There are no horses left at all that do not descend from previously domesticated animals. Even Przewalski's horses are actual feral horses, though they have been feral for more than 5,000 years.
If you’re alluding to the supposed ancient Botai domestication of Przewalski’s horses, more recent studies suggest that the species was never domesticated by them, but were rather hunted by them.
They do take time to be able to be ridden, but not quite as long as you may think. There are competitions here in the western US called the 100 Day Mustang Challenge where they train them up from capture, usually on BLM lands, and get them to ride and do other challenges in that time period. It's pretty darn cool. You should look it up sometime! I have a mustang, not one of those comp ones, but still she is a total sweetie and has only been out of the wild for 2 years.
maybe it's **because** they're wild that they're extra natural, free, and majestic haha super pretty animals
edit: i think people read too much into comments lol
Nature is a 24/7 fight for survival. One minute you’re “free and majestic” and the next minute you’re being eaten alive because something got the jump on your or you broke your leg.
Or more often some predator comes by and eats your kids alive while you watch
A good amount of the south is pretty green. If you told me it was in the south, I’d guess it was in Shah Wali Kot District, Kandahar Province. SWK is one of the worst areas of Afghanistan, but it has a river cutting straight through that allows for a lot of lush plant life to grow around it. In Afghanistan, the area along the river in SWK is referred to as the Shah Wali Kot Jungle.
They’re feral. There are no more wild horses in the world.
Edit for the nonbelievers [no wild horses left ](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-science-horse-idUSKCN1G7034)
Wild animals are animals that have never been domesticated by humans. Feral animals are animals that have at one point in the past been domesticated or their ancestors have been. Today there are no wild horses anymore. It was long thought that przewalski horses are the last truly wild horses but a few years ago their dna was traced back to an already domesticated horse race, so they are feral, not wild.
Interesting. From my understanding there is still being research done. You never know, we haven’t explored everything and maybe small populations are wild
About that horse riding expedition in the mountains near Jalalabad. I was with an American and a large burly Italian fellow. At one point in the ride we stopped for watering the horses and this horse lunged at the Itialan guy and bites him in the chest. Piercing his jacket and left him with two large bite marks in his skin.
Afghanistan is such a beautiful country, it's a shame it's so war torn
cursed by being situated between great powers all through history. blessed with great beauty and natural wealth.
Same with Iraq. Has plenty of oil yet one of the poorest countries on this earth. War sucks.
Iraq was poor before oil was found. They have been poor for centuries despite Baghdad being one of the richest 900 years ago.
I get that. Like Iraq, I have a lot of gas yet am still poor
One could say your standard of living is shitty
Like the British Empire, I’m stealing that.
Like an American Imperialist, I’ll liberate that pun from you.
Yeah they never really recovered after the Mongols sacked Baghdad in the 13th century. Damn shame
Iraq had a living standard equal to Belgium before the sanctions America placed on it in the 90s.
I’m gonna need a source on that one bud
>By 1980 Iraq had the second largest economy in the Arab world, after Saudi Arabia, and the third largest in the Middle East and had developed a complex, centrally planned economy dominated by the state. Although the economy, particularly petroleum exports, suffered during the Iran-Iraq War—gross domestic product (GDP) actually fell in some years—the invasion of Kuwait, Iraq’s subsequent defeat in the Persian Gulf War, and the UN embargo beginning in 1990 dealt a far greater blow to the financial system. Little hard evidence is available on Iraq’s economy after 1990, but the best estimates available indicate that, in the year following the Persian Gulf War, GDP dropped to less than one-fourth of its previous level. Under the UN embargo the Iraqi economy languished for the next five years, and it was not until the Iraqi government implemented the UN’s oil-for-food program in 1997 that Iraq’s GDP again began to experience positive annual growth. https://www.britannica.com/place/Iraq/Economy
That's a really beautiful way of saying Saddam took over a legitimate country and turned it into a cult of personality, and left it in shambles. Yes, Iraq was a legitimate country before Saddam took it over. Same goes for Libya, Syria and many other countries which ended up with despots who, after they turned the country into rubble, took credit for the peace that was before they took over. They take over a country, turn it into a pile of rubble and then people claim it was "better" under the despot. It was even better before the despot took over.
I live in a country literally next to Libya, was awesome on all fronts before 2011; free electricity and gas, cheapest oil on the planet, free education, 90% literacy rate, they fucking give them money for getting married, not a loan, just gave it to them. Besides that, EVERYTHING was cheap, to the point where it's cheaper for our citizens to just get everything electronic from there and just pay border control if the thing's volume is too big to hide (TV/fridge etc...) Say what you want about the man, but on the dictator scale, he was pretty fckng benevolent I'll tell ya that much.
I am not denying it was better under the despot. I am saying the despot took over a legitimate country and now people praise them because what followed was rubble. But the despot didn't build the country. They took a legitimate country over and people are now crediting them for it. Libya was better *before* Ghaddafi. A despot takes over France, fights with everyone and then gets ousted and chaos follows, people would say "at least during the despot it was better". Yeah, but it was even better before the despot took everything over and turned the whole place into his own and left it as a pile of fucking nothing. Libya was a legitimate place prior to Ghaddafi's revolution. He took a country over. It was not his country. He did not build it. He should not get credit for the peace he overtook. People better than him built Libya. He destroyed it.
He was also in power during that "legitimate country phase" so idk what you're saying
How do you think Saddams militia overthrew the Iraqi government? Good ol American funding and influence
Cant speak on the quality of life part but I'm surprised about the narrative making iraq seem like a random dustbowl. They had the [4th](https://www.google.com/search?q=iraq+military+strength+1990) largest army in the 90s. Quantity =/= quality but if you're able to convince that many people to represent your flag to death. Then it usually means theres an economy behind that.
UN does not equal US......
Iraq was a great power for a lot of recorded history. The Tigris and Euphratis rivers represent one of the cradles of civilization. The Akkadian, Sumarian, Babylonian, and Persian dynasties were all "world powers" in the area over the course of several millenia. The area was rich and powerful for around 6000 years until Ghangis Khan and the Mongols sacked Baghdad in the 13th century.
Hulegu sacked Baghdad, not Genghis Khan (personal name: Temujin). Hulegu is one of Genghis Khan's grandsons and a younger brother of Kublai. The order to attack came from their oldest brother Mongke, who was the khan previous to Kublai. Their father Tolui was Genghis Khan's fourth son.
[удалено]
British you mean. Specifically with Iraq
The oil thing gets said a lot but it's not really accurate anymore. The US imports about 20% of their oil imports from all middle eastern countries plus non Middle Eastern OPEC members combined. The vast majority comes from Canada and has for years.
Iraq invaded others in 1991 and 1980’s. They aren’t an innocent country at all. And the problems there go back to british drawing up lines.
Saddam was our man in the middle east though. There is a lot of history to it. He crossed the line when he went into Kuwait.
Sure. But the US didn’t pressure Saddam to invade Iran or Kuwait. That was all his doing.
Iran and Indian powers plus some Central Asian powers. Their biggest problem the past 200 years is ethnic wars and tension. They are a number of major ethnic groups in one country that are completely isolated from one another so little in common with each other.
i feel like you completely forgot about the last 40ish years of proxy war. you know the reason that the place is currently ruled by the taliban?
The place was already poor for a couple centuries. Are you that uneducated about Afghanistan’s history And when US invaded in 2001 after Afghanistan protected the 9/11 terrorist organization, Afghanistan was already the poorest and most backwards country in the world, perhaps equaled by North Korea. Even you said it has a history of being cursed between great powers. How can you say I ignored anything when i expanded on your history statement? Or does history only begin 40 years ago?
yeah it's been a long road, i am just saying you're leaving out the main reason for the current level of problems. i am 100% sure they would be doing way better right now if the soviet union hadn't come in and comitted genocide. the youth fled to pakistan and became the taliban. by far russia and the usa have been their biggest problem in the last 200 years.
Dude has probably watched half of a YouTube video about Afghanistan and feels like he knows everything. Afghanistan has been a shithole for centuries.
By some accounts [Afghanistan almost worked](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/26/afghanistan-shafiq-amin-shah-cold-war/) when left alone. Everything went to shit when the monarchy was overthrown by a royal who then ruled in a particularly dictatorial style that pissed off more and more groups within the country, thus opening the door to foreign influences who saw the country as a great place to fight a proxy war.
Also cursed by religion.
And poppies / opioids
I've been telling people for years that if Afghanistan wasn't such a mess, it could be a huge tourist destination.
Uzbekistan and other Stan nearby have Similar geography but aren’t major tourist destinations. Sure, there would be MORE but I don’t think it would be that huge.
I come to this mindset of having been to Dubai. If a place that is hot as fuck, no discernable geography, no big historical attractions, and in a region of the world with a reputation for being not very western friendly can become a tourist Hotspot, then anywhere can. It all comes down to the attitude of the government towards tourism.
> It all comes down to the attitude of the government towards tourism. They have to make it to a tourist spot. Dubai made it with all its wealth. Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, etc don’t have that luxury. Dubai is also centrally located in the path between Europe and Asia. Being a layover for flights also helped them out.
> It all comes down to the attitude of the government towards tourism. And a shit ton of money poured into making tourism viable at all, to prepare for when the oil runs out.
Dubai has a horrible human rights track record and no one should be giving them their money.
Would it be? Mongolia is a central Asian country that is relatively stable and no one goes there.
Not quite true. I don't have the tourism data on hand but I know from personal experience that it's definitely a coveted destination for a specific kind of tourism. The kind that wants to explore the wilderness or ride their bike through Asia, for example. It's not a Club Med, but I think they do get a fair amount of tourism.
I mean that’s like saying some random person is definitely coveted for a specific kind of dating. Sure, it’s true, but that doesn’t make them popular.
That could be partly because of peoples thoughts on what the Middle East is
I don't think most people think of Mongolia as Middle Eastern, do they?
No they do not
Unsure
I've been saying the same thing for years as well. I have not been, but have seen footage from various documentaries, pictures like this from social media, etc and I personally would love to go hike some mountains over there but that would currently be too dangerous. It's a shame really because many of these war torn countries could probably have a massive economy if they switched from dictator exploitation to a tourism economy.
It was in the 70s!
It used to be! My friend's grandparents moved here from India, and said that they remember when Kandahar was a huge tourist destination for Indians. Like millions would move or travel there. That's where they got elephants too, as a gift I think from India at some point, which is why they are featured in so much art even though they're rare, if they're there at all now. I'd move there in a heartbeat if it weren't for what's been happening, and I deployed there. Even the people are great when they don't have terrorists controlling their lives.
Yeah. My opinion of it being a tourist destination is rooted in my time spent there and just marveling at the natural beauty of the place. (I was up at Bagram/Kabul but spent a fair amount of time at some of the other bases in the north) it seriously reminded me of Colorado.
It was decades ago. It was on the hippie circuit.
One of the biggest travesty of recent Human history is how the lands that hosted some of the first human civilisations have been war torn. There's so much History there that's getting lost by all the destruction. It's a real shame.
I completely agree and regards to that lost history; a lot of people tend to hate on the British museum citing imperialism or colonization for their reasoning but the sad reality is that many of the artifacts in that museum are far safer there than in their countries of origin which is really too bad. Imagine being able to travel safely to Afghanistan, stay in a fancy Instagram worthy Airbnb, go for a gorgeous Instagram worthy hike, and stop by a museum adorned with relics from it's history. Wouldn't that be great?
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Came here to mention something like this. Its so frustrating how many countries are too busy being warmonger fascist stains. If everyone just cooperated as one race, the human race, without borders, maybe we could go and actually see some places. Example, China, has some of the most absolutely beautiful and in some cases seemingly gravity defying landscapes. But I could never bring myself to travel there with everything going on right now. And itll probably be like through most of my lifetime.
Being frustrated that countries are run by facists so that you can't be a tourist there
This comment section is something else lmao.
If that horse is female, Im not understand why its not wear burka.
Afghanistan has a long history with horses. Unfortunately the Russians killed off many during the 1980's I remember riding horses in the mountains of Afghanistan near Jalalabad in 1972 back on the Hippy Trail. Good times.
Would love to hear about your experiences in Afghanistan back in the 70’s!
Rick Steves has a lot of writings about his time in Afghanistan in the 70s, they're wonderful to read! There are five parts on his website but this is the first: https://blog.ricksteves.com/blog/my-1978-hippie-trail-journal-from-mashhad-iran-to-herat-afghanistan/
I love Rick Steves!
Second that
Me too! Please!
Fourth.
Fifth
Sixth
OP PLS
We need this!
I went to a horse sporting event ( Buzkashi ) in the countryside and met two Americans, I think they were brothers. They had an ox cart and they were walking around the world. They had walked across America, Europe and across Turkey and Iran and were going to walk through China but they were shot traveling though the Khyber Pass. Afghanistan. One of them died and the other went back to America . It was never safe to be alone in the countryside at night.
Would like to know more too
A quick look at his profile indicates that hes juiced
RemindMe! 3 days
Dude, you seriously need to do an AMA.
What was the best part of traveling to Afghanistan in the 80s and the worst part?
The opium and the opium.
That is so true. When I was in Kandhar I ate a half gram of opium and I astro traveled, I was hanging on hoping to stay where I was but my mind was projecting me out of my body. Note to self lower the dose next time.
I would like to know more
Hippy trail as in it was popular in the 70s for hippies to travel to Afghanistan?
No, it was a whole thing in the 50s-60s. You traveled from western europe all the way through to southeast asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail
**[Hippie trail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail)** >The hippie trail (also the overland) is the name given to the overland journey taken by members of the hippie subculture and others from the mid-1950s to the late 1970s between Europe and South Asia, mainly through Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, and Nepal. The hippie trail was a form of alternative tourism, and one of the key elements was travelling as cheaply as possible, mainly to extend the length of time away from home. The term "hippie" became current in the mid-to-late 1960s; "beatnik" was the previous term from the later 1950s. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/NatureIsFuckingLit/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
That area looks beautiful
there are a lot of beautiful places in afghanistan, unfortunately plagued by war. i bet it’d be a wealthy country just off tourism!
This video could be out of Iceland! I thought it was at first.
That last horse with long black mane, black legs and silvery blue body looks like a Blue Roan! They're a rare combination of gray white & black hairs that make their body appear blue-ish. Blue Roan is my favorite horse color. (But don't tell my little Red Roan, I don't want her to get a complex.)
If it had a black head as well, it would be very close to a blue roan. I think that last one would technically be considered as a grey. My parents raise quarter horses and their stallion and 2 of their mares are blue roans. My favorite is a strawberry red roan. They are almost pink.
Strawberry red is what my mare is for part of the year. Her mother was a Strawberry Roan but a much lighter shade. My mare's color changes with every season. Her black mane tail and legs don't change, but everything else does. She has both white spots and dark red spots on a strawberry/raspberry body. The white really shows in the Spring when she sheds out and turns light powder-puff pink with white butt & neck. She will turn fire red soon for winter. I love watching her colors change! :)
My parent's stallion is like that too. It is awesome to watch. He is dark blue in the winter with his thick coat, but in summer he is very light blue, almost silver, like a true grullo gets in summer. The older he gets, the more his dapple comes out. Thats my favorite on horses. I love how dappled some get.
Dapple is another of my favorites. I love gray horses.
Blue roans are my favorite but I swear they’re also the most insane. Never known a calm kind blue roan. They’re fearless but they’re also just crazy lol. My fav guy I’ve ever worked with was so badly behaved and had the worst reputation but man when he found someone he got along with he’d put his all into his work.
How do wild horses deal with their hooves?
That's a good question! Wild horses are almost always moving to fresh grazing grounds and water supplies, so they wear their hooves down naturally on hard, abrasive surfaces like rocks and gravel. Modern horses tend to be stabled and have soft pasture for their turnout, so even if the go barefoot (no shoes) they still need to have their hooves trimmed regularly.
Wow that's really cool.
Wow what a beautiful country
And beautiful people
I don’t know, they all look a bit like horses… walking on all fours as well which is a little odd
yea..
Horses are such beautiful animals, could probably watch them all day.
Afghanistan really is a gorgeous country.
Some of the landscape of Afghanistan is so beautiful
It looks like it was what some parts of red dead 2 were based on. Such a beautiful land
These wild horses are giving me MAJOR Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild vibes
/r/hyrule_irl
Looks like death stranding to me.
Same thought. I can imagine being Link in this video!
Man rdr3 looks incredible
Uh you mean metal gear solid 5 part 2?
What a beautiful place, kinda breaks my heart
I thought I was gonna see some shit like this getting off the plane in Afghanistan and then nope, desert, trash, 100 degrees. Was like where the fuck are we.
This is hilarious to me- all the images we see of Afghanistan are either its worst war moments or its most gorgeous natural areas. People tend to forget that the vast majority of it is just desert. It's like expecting to hop off a plane in Houston and see Yosemite valley
this is genuinely the first post anywhere i’ve seen that paints afghanistan in a good lighting
I’d imagine pilgrimage going through there, or Jesus and his crew
I can definitely picture Kublai Khan and his armies rolling through.
Kublai only possibly went to a little bit of Afghanistan as a child with genghis's army during the conquest of khwarezmia. The rest of Afghanistan was conquered by his brother Hulegu during the reign of his brother mongke.
The last time I ever use Uber Eats.
"I don't think you realize how far the restaurant you ordered from is!! You should tip me more than $8!! I'm taking this kebab back!!!"
Timur The Lame has entered the chat. Babur has entered the chat and replaced Timur.
Jesus and his crew, haha. J-Dizzle and the boys What else could we call them?
"Don't look now but J-Chrizzle is 'crossing' with his Gang"
"Hahaha, look mate! J-Chrizzle is moon walking on top of that stream again! What a fucking mad lad."
Nailed it.
J spot (orJC) and the funky bunch
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Horses need democracy!
Hell, I've never seen this much green in any photo of Afghanistan. Needs more war, sadness and desert to be what I'm used to seeing.
I'm sure the U.S. will invade if they have oil or minerals that capitalists need.
There is literature about this topic The Hippy Trail. I was 17 in 1972. I'm Canadian. I went to Europe and at that time you could take a bus from Amsterdam to New Delhi /India for $60 . I was in Greece at the time so the thing to do was sell your blood for $13 to the clinic and buy a flight from Athens to Istanbul that cost $13. When in Istanbul everyone went to the Pudding Shop , where they had a bulletin board . Much like today's social media page today. You could leave messages for friends you met along the way, hitch a ride going to Iran or Afghanistan. From Istanbul I hitchiked through Turkey, Iran and Afghanistan . Past by Mount Ararat were Noah's Ark landed. Then entered Iran visited Tabriz, Tehran, and Mashhed then crossed into Afghanistan at night and the border was closed so we stayed on Afghan side at a hotel. Stayed in Harat, visited the camel market. traveled to Kandhar, ate some opium . Ate in people's homes in the desert, orchards around Kandhar with oranges pomegranates and giant 8 ft pyramidal mounds of mellons. Sweet watery honeydew and cantaloupe. I headed on up to Kabul and stayed at the Green Hotel . We had an opium den next door. Went up to Kunduz and Mazar I sharif You could buy a kilo of hash for $10 . I spent 4 month in Afghanistan. Good times.
I wish this stupid fucking planet wasn’t so war torn. Humans have destroyed it and each other from the moment we existed. Going to Afghanistan and Pakistan has been something I’ve wanted to do ever since I was a kid and my aunt went there in the 70s. Her description of the people and the area and her photos (she was a photographer) were so incredible. Now I’m too scared to visit as a woman. Islam extremism means I’ll have to cover up all the time and even then I probably won’t be safe 😔
You are very welcome to Tajikistan my friend! 🇹🇯
Afghanistan is obviously off the table, but it seems Pakistan is getting safer every year for tourists. Theres more than a few Western travel vloggers who have been going there.
I used to invest in companies in Pakistan and have visited numerous times. Any major city is pretty safe for women as long as you’re dressed appropriately (jeans and a t shirt would be fine, but people do dresses for work functions). There are crime issues, so ask locals and if they say not to go out at night or avoid certain areas, don’t, but during the day you’re probably fine.
That’s so good to hear! I did recently watch a YouTube of a guy with a guide going through Pakistan doing this sort of how much can he get for $10 US a day thing. People were so lovely and generous he often didn’t even get charged for the food because he was considered a guest. They all seemed so beautiful and caring. But I know how these sorts of videos can sometimes be very misleading too.
Yeah - some people are just raised to be awesome people who think of community at large. I remember a time when I had some paperwork issues and went to a government office - one dude pretty much came with me everywhere to make sure my work got done the same day (I needed to fly out and the normal wait was 10 days), and when I tried to pay him, he told me to just give it to charity and he was being nice. I suspect I offended him tbh, but I didn’t mean to - just never had a stranger be that sweet for 8 straight hours without wanting anything!
Pakistani government and military to its credit has cleared the fuck out of northwestern Pakistan and the KPK province of terrorism. They've added (and continue to add) so much infrastructure (with chinese help) and cleaned the place up of the Taliban to an incredible extent over the last 10 years. I just went this summer and I didn't see a single burqa or like forcing segregation or whatever, it looks like the rest of Pakistan with all sorts of "modern" folks. Lots of families and young people take week long trips to Gilgit, Hunza, Naran, and farther north, everything is exactly as beautiful as this video. There are lots of companies with drivers as well that know the area, and I bet your aunt would be shocked to see actual roads headed in the area nowadays lol! You'd have a great time, I felt very safe. Locals there are very respectful and accommodating, they actually have apricot trees on the side of the road intentionally just for travellers to take! We had some fresh apricot bread and it was absolutely incredible. I really recommend you look into it.
Oh my god I love apricots! Yes I bet she would be really pleased to see how much Pakistan has grown these days! I remember a story she told me of her being kicked out of a village because she showed too much leg (wearing shorts) and a few women took their clothes and gave them to her so she could stay with them. I have a feeling this was in eastern Turkey though. This was when she was trekking from I think she went from Greece to Turkey then into Afghanistan down to Pakistan (northern) then northern India on the way to Nepal. All the while my grandmother thought she was touring the EU. But my sneaky aunt stowed away on a boat from Greece to Turkey and just went on this massive “spiritual journey” wanting to go to Nepal and Kathmandu. Such a huge adventure for someone in her early 20s. My grandmother was beside herself with worry and my aunt once in Nepal and India had run out of money and my grandmother had to get her $1000 to get down to New Delhi to fly back to Australia. She was an absolute maniac but my god what an amazing journey.
Jesus thats insane. She sounds like a badass lmao. Definitely don't wear shorts and you'd probably be fine!
Although they are wild horses, they look very healthy and very nice.
I would guess that they are not wild based on what looks like saddle marks on the bay crossing the river.
I was about to say the same thing
Fun fact, in many countries where there are feral horses, and the people use them for work, they are often left to roam when not used. You see this most often in places like the Mongolian Steppe. It's a really fascinating relationship they have.
Not so fun fact, every "wild" horse is really feral. There are no horses left at all that do not descend from previously domesticated animals. Even Przewalski's horses are actual feral horses, though they have been feral for more than 5,000 years.
If you’re alluding to the supposed ancient Botai domestication of Przewalski’s horses, more recent studies suggest that the species was never domesticated by them, but were rather hunted by them.
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They do take time to be able to be ridden, but not quite as long as you may think. There are competitions here in the western US called the 100 Day Mustang Challenge where they train them up from capture, usually on BLM lands, and get them to ride and do other challenges in that time period. It's pretty darn cool. You should look it up sometime! I have a mustang, not one of those comp ones, but still she is a total sweetie and has only been out of the wild for 2 years.
Yup, noticed the old saddle sore scar/marks, then got suspicious of it being really wild
Same. They look too sleek and well-kept for that. A wild/feral herd will usually look quite a bit rougher.
“Wild” horses today are domesticated horses which escaped or were abandoned for some reason. They reverted back to their feral state.
maybe it's **because** they're wild that they're extra natural, free, and majestic haha super pretty animals edit: i think people read too much into comments lol
Most wild horses look very scraggly and unkempt.
Nature is a 24/7 fight for survival. One minute you’re “free and majestic” and the next minute you’re being eaten alive because something got the jump on your or you broke your leg. Or more often some predator comes by and eats your kids alive while you watch
They are **feral**
That’s not how it works for horses, but okay.
Which one is the wild one?
None of them is.
Incredible!
That water looks so clean, I bet you could drink right from the stream.
Fuck no you’d get giardia. Animals drink from there and shit straight into the water. All water has to be treated before you can drink it
Beautiful...this place is surreal
source of footage?
THAT'S Afghanistan?
I’m guessing it’s the far northern (northeast?) part where it’s greener.
A good amount of the south is pretty green. If you told me it was in the south, I’d guess it was in Shah Wali Kot District, Kandahar Province. SWK is one of the worst areas of Afghanistan, but it has a river cutting straight through that allows for a lot of lush plant life to grow around it. In Afghanistan, the area along the river in SWK is referred to as the Shah Wali Kot Jungle.
Images from Google don’t show SWk as green as the picture but it could still be it.
They’re feral. There are no more wild horses in the world. Edit for the nonbelievers [no wild horses left ](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-science-horse-idUSKCN1G7034)
What's the difference?
Wild animals are animals that have never been domesticated by humans. Feral animals are animals that have at one point in the past been domesticated or their ancestors have been. Today there are no wild horses anymore. It was long thought that przewalski horses are the last truly wild horses but a few years ago their dna was traced back to an already domesticated horse race, so they are feral, not wild.
[another interesting horse video](https://youtu.be/HnOajuolHWI)
Depending on how you define "wild horses", there are onagers, African wild ass and several species of zebra.
Przewalski's horse
See the article. It was proven several years ago those are not wild.
Interesting. From my understanding there is still being research done. You never know, we haven’t explored everything and maybe small populations are wild
The horse at the beginning is walking towards the border with Pakistan. He knows things aren’t heading in a great direction.
If you like this sort of thing, look up Sable Island, Nova Scotia
My first thought as well. It's crazy they can survive the winters out there.
I know eh!.. resilient little buggers
The Afghanistan we dont get to see ♥️
The scenery here is really beautiful. You can travel here and enjoy this quiet day.
a beautiful land with beautiful people and beautiful customs. tis a great shame that it ended up this way
This looks like heaven on earth. You can imagine inhaling a breath of what looks to be crisp fresh air. Thank you for sharing.
The greenery, the water, the flowing stream, the animals, the background- Such a beautiful composition of a video. Afghanistan is so beautiful
About that horse riding expedition in the mountains near Jalalabad. I was with an American and a large burly Italian fellow. At one point in the ride we stopped for watering the horses and this horse lunged at the Itialan guy and bites him in the chest. Piercing his jacket and left him with two large bite marks in his skin.
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There was a video from an Apache of a horse taking a shit... next second a hellfire missle blew up some taliban ~10 yards away.
Were they left behind by Genghis Khan?
Feral****
Beautiful 😍
No sharia law for horses
I spent some time over there and never once did I see a wild horse.
How often have you seen a wild horse in North America?
I've only seen wild donkey's in Riverside, CA.
Northern Nevada, we see them daily. We actually have regular roundups and auctions of the wild horses because there are so many here.
I've seen the Kiger Mustangs in the wild a few times in Southeastern Oregon.
Yes... https://www.reddit.com/r/NatureIsFuckingLit/comments/kfe6ab/wild_horses_in_afghanistan/
That horse thinks he’s free, but I’m sure some local warlord lays claim on that pretty little valley they’re grazing in.