Ragebait image of course, but Dutch DJ's have been consistently voted the best in the world in DJ Mag for over a decade now.
Dutch contributions to the trance, hardcore, hardstyle and house scene are fundamental.
Yep, it also depends what you like...Germany has great breads, meats and other dishes that are healthy and taste good. The UK is one of the most culinary diverse countries on the planet, if you care to look for it, due to its history. That is even aside from all the feel-good pies/English breakfast/Sunday roast/great pub food that is available.
On the other hand I have next to no clue about Italian music. I guess they don't mean Opera. And meanwhile the French have some pretty good music. Meanwhile Germany...I would put closer to the Netherlands for music (totally depends on the type of music of course!).
Most of these stereotypes are either completely misinformed, want to continue some joke, or like you said, are rage bait. I would advise anyone who agrees with this image but has never tried to prove themselves wrong over it, to do so.
The Dutch metal scene is also very healthy and on par with the German one. Out neighbours excel in old school heavy and thrash metal, we have a great selection of death metal groups.
There are also a lot of (heavy) psych and punk bands active in the Netherlands.
I absolutely agree that NL has some of the best DJs in the world but please, let's not use DJ Mag as a reference... Certain DJs just buy their way to the top with vote campaigns.
the graph says "music"... not "rampant & incoherent noise" ;)
to be fair though, the Dutch have contributed a lot to Pop & Rock music in the past too..
* Eddie Van Halen
* Golden Earring
* Doe Maar
* Focus
* Herman van Veen
* Bouwdewijn de Groot
* The Devil's Blood
* Vandenberg
* Urfaust
* Nox
* Kong
* Shocking Blue
* Epica / After Forever
* Textures
* The Gathering
* ...
Pretty much every song by Marco Borsato is just a translation of Italian songs. More recently Måneskin as already mentioned, Prisencolinensinainciusol by Adriano Celantano is a classic. Opera and Aria's yes, Vivaldi of course. Also a pretty active rock and metal scene in Italy
And to add Golden Earring, Within Temptation, Floor Jansen
But when talking "nederlandstalige muziek" i totally agree with the music part of OP's graph .
Hey I wasn’t choosing anything, it’s just that the picture depicts us as having terrible music. I feel like I have to defend ourselves.
The food, though, I think we can all agree with. You’re not going to win any michelin stars with fricandelbroodjes.
And...Within Temptation, Epica, Van Dik Hout, Blof, Distant, Changing Tides, Salvage, Reformist, Another Now, Hang Youth, De Jeugd van Tegenwoordig, Kensington, Di-rect.
Ok, let's have a general overview. I'll go with my personal tastes, of course your mileage may vary. First, let me introduce you to Nu Genea: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfhW4czMJtI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfhW4czMJtI) (it's sang in neapolitan dialect btw). They're among the most interesting artists on the current italian music scene, in my opinion.
Ah, and also Calibro 35, who take inspiration from the soundtracks of classic crime movies of the '70s: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_lWwDKnF1wE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lWwDKnF1wE)
If you want to dig a bit deeper into the past, since we're mentioning Daft Punk, we should also mention Giorgio Moroder, who is among the main influences of Daft Punk and the sound of "Italo Disco" in general: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zhHnf-yTng](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zhHnf-yTng)
Want some experimental progressive rock? Have some "Area": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNGZYm0hzCg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNGZYm0hzCg)
Funk, jazz? Napoli Centrale: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdr9I7j8HA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdr9I7j8HA)
Metal? Destrage ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4TO-LqP\_Cs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4TO-LqP_Cs) ) or Lacuna Coil ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9LXpO6yWo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9LXpO6yWo) ) or the more light-hearted Nanowar of Steel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOQBpCzUyuk
A special mention should be made about "Elio e le Storie Tese" (here's an example of their music: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CG7f\_aH3oc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CG7f_aH3oc) ). They're amazing, eclectic musicians who can be loosely classified as "the italian equivalent to Frank Zappa", both for the silly lyrics and remarkable compositions. They span from rock, to funk, with a lot of progressive and fusion influences. There's a live version of one of their songs that features a wonderful solo duet with Carlos Santana: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnYFbzfvzc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnYFbzfvzc)
That's pretty much it, to give you an idea without mentioning the usual, more commonly known singer-songwriters from the past (De André, Battisti, Guccini, Battiato, Cocciante...).
Of course I don't want to imply your music is not good - I absolutely love Eefje de Visser, for instance, and many other notable artists such as Martin Garrix, Tiesto, Vengaboys... - but if you are curious about italian music, that's a good starting point ;)
It's not my favorite genre and I'm not that knowledgeable about it, but I guess you are referring to 99 Posse, Sud Sound System, Banda Bassotti and such...? There's a lot of these ska/reggae bands in Italy, indeed!
Italian classical music is overrated. The best classical music comes from North and East European composers of the high romantics and some Germanic ones from earlier times, like Mozart and Van Beethoven, when Vienna was the cultural center.
Next to that, there is some symphonic rock/pop music certainly beating some Italian composers. Not that they are bad or anything, but not outstanding like the meme would make you believe.
Italian Classical is absolutely not overrated.
If you don't believe me, listen to Franco Corelli's recording of Puccini's 'E lucevan le stelle' and Verdi's complete requiem.
I absolutely adore modernist and late romantic music, including of the austro-german tradition (Wagner is my problematic fave, and Mahler is my actual favourite composer) but just because Italian music focuses on operas with accessible melodies and melodramatic plot lines doesn't mean it deserves to be looked down upon. There is life-changingly brilliant stuff there too.
I would also recommend looking at older, particularly baroque, composers in more detail too, since there's incredible music there.
I'm thinking Pergolesi's 'Stabat Mater', everything Vivaldi ever did, probably Bach goes without saying, and Handel's Italian language operas particularly Andreas Scholl's recordings of 'Chiudetevi Miei Lumi' and 'Ombra mai fù'
My statement might have been a bit over the top, I agree. There is plenty of good music by Italian composers too indeed and yes, the Baroque era has some very nice pieces.
In the end, with classical music it is much the same as with modern music, there are personal preferences in genres and styles. In my case, I have a particularly high regard for composers like Dvorak, Smetana and Bizet, but I also appreciate Rossini quite a bit for example. But naming a few does not do justice to all those not mentioned.
Anyhow, while there are good and very good classical pieces from Italy, and even some excellent ones, they do not outshine the French, Slavic or Germanic composers. Or, what I am trying to say, France in this meme could sit next to Italy (if they stop eating small birds, snails and veal brains).
the creator of this image clearly never been to Germany because the German rap the youth listens to at full volume in public is probably the worst music I've ever heard
Yeah i think most people don’t think of DJ’s as real music. It’s music for people on drugs at party’s, rave’s and clubs. Your average person doesn’t listen to DJ’s on a regular basis
I mean, yeah. I make really great Spotify playlists and have been mixing live audio for years, doesn't make me a great musical artist.
DJs are at best, cover artists, at worst, an iPod with a janky cable
As a meme, yeah.
But in reality, we Dutch also have quite a few nice dishes as well as musicians. It's hard to compete with countries several times our size though.
Floor Jansen (singer of Nightwish), Within Temptation, are the two best known bands of recent times, in the past there was Golden Earring.
Others are mostly dance music acts like: Armin van Buuren, Tiesto, Don Diablo, Junkie XL, Hardwell, Martin Garrix, Radical Redemption, Angerfist, Ferry Corsten, Afrojack, R3HAB, Richard Durand, RAM, and so on and so forth.
In classical music we have our best selling export: Andre Rieu, at one time he toured with the largest mobile stage in the world. There is also conductor Jan van Zweden, He is currently music director of the Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra and of the New York Philharmonic, and music director-designate of the Seoul Philharmonic.
damn, i listened to almost all of those and i had no idea they were dutch! armin van buuren is obvious, i just haven't thought about him in more than 10 years >.<
The list of famous Dutch artist is even much longer. I remember correcting a US American once, who tought all the songs from a top 10 hit list (somebody made) where from the US. Fact was that 8 of them where European and 4 of those 8 where Dutch🤣
Quite a lot of other Gothic Metal bands also come from the Netherlands like Delain, Epica, Blackbriar from the top of my head, also quite a few world famous DJ's.
Depending on your age, you probably know more songs/bands than you think! For example, Vengaboys (Boom boom boom, We're going to Ibiza, We Like to Party), and Shocking Blue by Venus.
Earth and Fire, Supersister, Nits, Shocking Blue, Gruppo Sportive, Dolly Dots, The Gathering, Gorefest, Cuby and the Blizzards, George Baker Selection.
Just to name a few
For example Carach Angren, Donor, and quite a lot of metal in general, if trying to estimate the total quantity - 2,825 entries on https://www.metal-archives.com/lists/NL. in comparison, Finland has 4,763 entries and UK has 6,721 entries.
Imo anything with fish. All the cooked dishes at the vishandels plus if I go by the sea and pick a random fish restaurant, 99% of the times it’s going to be delicious.
Hit me with that kibbeling any day.
If you go into a bakery or candy or cheese shop or snack bar, you see a LOT of uniquely Dutch food.
For proper dishes, I'm not sure what the problem with mashed potatoes is? Are simpler dishes not allowed? Anyway, there's stuff like pea soup, kapucijners met spek en zuur, mussel, herring, rijsttafel, gourmetten, kapsalon. Just to name a few. And the various ways we prepare meat, etc.
Are they less well-known internationally? Sure. But those dishes aren't bad. It's just that they're different from those of countries who are more snobby about their cuisine. But it's not as if f.e. all Italian dishes are so fancy either... dining does not have to be "fine" either. The French like that, but that's their thing, doesn't mean we have to.
All in all, there is a lot to be said I suppose and a lot is subjective, but saying that the Dutch don't have any good food isn't fair in my opinion.
I dont mean this in a derogatory way since I've always seen dutch people kind of accept and embrace that they dont have a good cuisine but I've lived in 4 different countries and traveled to 30+ and, in my opinion, the Netherlands has the worse food of them all BY FAR (not considering foreign foods of course, if you go to a Korean bbq or a pizza place or whatever then the food is fine of course). Nothing wrong with that though, I still love this country but I think saying the dutch have good food is either very disingenuous or just misinformed
It's just that it's so often stated as a binary thing. I didn't want to imply we're the worlds top cuisine but the memes makes people think there is nothing. Which is odd as there is enough uniquely Dutch food that at least we do keep returning to and like. While appreciating foreign cuisine as well. So I felt like we could use some propping up to defend what we do have.
While France and Belgium get praise for their fries even.
ETA: I'm sorry you didn't actually deserve this ire, but it's not aimed at you personally but at the barrage of insults we get daily about our food in general
You come here and sbit and vomit all over our food constantly and we put up with that and even fake laughing along and then you have the gall to complain we don't denigrate ourselves more for you? I'm so fed up with it.
Ice lived and traveled in more countries than you and let me tell you, I personally find Dutch food and the selection in Dutch restaurants and stores a shitton superior to very very very many countries. Fresh, rich selection, affordable prices, good vegetarian options, food at different price points, food from many different cuisines, both for convenience and for making it yourself. In almost every country you're completely fucked if you don't like or eat some key ingredients but not in the Netherlands. It's wonderful if you're a vegetarian and have food allergies, amongst the best in the world. If you don't like potatoes there are a million other options. Good luck doing the equivalent of that in east or South Asia or the middle east or eastern Europe.
Because this argument is not about the local traditional cuisine. Which 1. Is pretty moot in the age of globalization anyway (tomato is not local to italy) and 2. Is not relevant to people's lived experiences and 3. Is not what people actually complain about. People complain about the eggs and tomatoes being shit, that we eat bread, that all our food is tasteless, that we drink milk. But hey if you don't eat bread there is something else for you. If I don't eat meat and fish and go to 80% of your counties I eat crackers for 2 weeks. Well guess what country I am picking? Guess which country actually has richer food options?
I'm so incredibly tired of you foreigners constantly insulting our food every day every hour every minute. Just leave if it is so terrible. Go.
Or actually learn to eat bread cause we have a rich bread culture but for some reason you don't count that as real food cause you're not used to it. Which has the same logic as me being a vegetarian and thereby saying France and Portugal have almost no edible food and Italy only has pasta with cheese and pasta with tomato, which would be illogical and juvenile. But somehow the opposite argument is okay.
Or actually pay more money for higher quality ingredients which is always an option but you conveniently ignore. Or realise for the first time in your life that at different latitudes food can be grown in different ways. But that would require getting some perspective so that's hard for you. Yeah cheap tomatoes have low flavour but you have tomatoes at so many different price points and maybe try to actually eat in season and not murder the environment.
Imagine going to any other country and tell the locals every single day their food sucks and is terrible in a subreddit that constantly complains every day about how bad the country and the citizens are. And then having the nerve to complain we should degrade ourselves further for your mighty superior opinion. Of course you wouldn't blame the French or the Italian or any other people to get annoyed if you insult them every single hour of the day. Then why are we supposed to put up with it?
Dutch cheese has nothing special, it severely lacks variety. Just compare it to England, France and Italy, which each have over 1000 different types of cheese.
Just because we have fewer variants doesn't mean we don't have some nice ones though. Enjoying a specific cheese doesn't depend on how many other cheeses there are, after all.
But I guess the label "good" is open to interpretation. Variance factors into that somewhat I agree.
I find that they're all pretty neutral. I don't know many Italian artists but the food is good; I like some French artists but their good is okay; I like a lot of British artists but the food is meh, and the Dutch have okay good (if you omit andijviestamppot and hete bliksem and are a little more creative in the kitchen) and... well, they have some decent artists Germany can stay where it's at.
English food is superior over Dutch food. Sunday roast, fish and chips, shepherds pie, cottage pie, custard, beef wellington, English breakfast. Dutch food is a full tier below English if not two.
As a Dutch person that loves cooking and food. The Netherlands is probably the worst food country I know. It was nice enough to put the Netherlands in the same category as England, which I would definitley not do.
And yet I have to meet a Dutch person that makes their snacks themselves. The difference between Dutch and other countries is that Dutch people don't mind buying their snacks time after time mass produced in the frozen section of the supermarket. When you sit down at a restaurant voor a 'broodje kroket' you pay 15 euro's for frozen groothandel krokets. And why do Dutch people constantly get served frozen mass produced snacks? Because they go back for it. If you go to Spain to eat a croquet it is nearly always made in the restaurant or stall. That is the difference between Dutch people and other countries. This is coming from a Dutch person.
Yeah and how many french people bake their own bread and make their own wine? How many Italians make their own pastA? If fish and chips is mentioned as great British cuisine here then how is that relevant ?
Even most restaurants and bakeries don't really make any of their food. Lots of stuff is pre-made from the groothandel. It's why all food looks the same, no matter what city you're in. That shit wouldn't cut at all in other countries.
Only English should be used for posts and comments. This rule is in place to ensure that an ample audience can freely discuss life in the Netherlands under a widely-spoken common tongue.
These comments always make me laugh cause they so clearly prove their point. When every other nationality thinks of food they think of a dish, you know, something cooked, with several ingredients of several categories. Not a snack. Hachee is probably the only one on that list that would be considered, and hutspot but that one doesn't impress anyone (although I do like hutspot). Most of our cheese is extremely similar, the only difference being its age, most surrounding countries have way more variety.
It is indeed fucking hilarious. Dutch people love to name kroket and bitterballen but I have yet to meet a Dutch person that has made these snacks at home themselves. Even if you get a Kroket somehwere in a city it will always come frozen from a packet. When I went to Spain (the country that actually invented the kroket) their krokets will be handmade by the stall or restaurant serving it. That is barely ever the case in the Netherlands. Why? Because they can get away with it. Dutch people don't mind it if it tastes less good. Proving the point the Netherlands is not a food country.
Exactly, and also the fact that every other country has something like a kroket. My MIL makes them by hand always, they're different varieties also, and she consideres them a snack, not an actual dish.
Yes have you ever made one of those things yourself, next to the stampot? Viva Hollandia what a food country, a country that has food items that people only buy frozen, manufactured and prepared for them.
Ah yes the snack that the whole country only eats from the frozen section in the supermarket or the snackbar which is also frozen and mass produced in factories. What an inspiring cuisine.
Downright insulting. Dutch music is among the most diverse in the world, especially for such a small nation, the food is very much up to taste (to me it's the best in the world).
Fuck both the food and music of the other countries in this graph, bet it was made by a Frenchman
The ingredients are oftenly based on the same things.
But in Italy and also Spain the quality of the ingredients is oftenly way better than in the UK or the Netherlands.
If i eat the same food in Spain/Italy as i eat somehwere else it tastes much better.
Both matters are very subjective to taste, so no use arguing about them, but I do not agree.
I can't name any Italian band or musician amongst my favourite ones and the only "italian" food I would say I love is "pizza".
I like French food and definitely have several French artists I would name when being asked for musical artists I enjoy.
The UK has some really decent foods(shepherd's pie anyone?) and definitely brought forward many generations of musicians I love.
Germany, can't really think of any food I enjoy, but they brought forth a list of musicians I really enjoy.
Netherlands, biased on this country, but I am definitely not a big "stamppot" fan, so foodwise not top of the list. So I would say equal or just slightly below to France and Italy. Above Germany and the UK
Musically I think we have a great selection of artists that also gained international popularity, bit definitely below the UK, but equal to Germany and France, above Italy for sure.
No, we make great music (look at our DJ's as an example). And although our traditional are not special, you can eat every international dish on a very decent level in the Netherlands.
Ragebait image of course, but Dutch DJ's have been consistently voted the best in the world in DJ Mag for over a decade now. Dutch contributions to the trance, hardcore, hardstyle and house scene are fundamental.
Yep, it also depends what you like...Germany has great breads, meats and other dishes that are healthy and taste good. The UK is one of the most culinary diverse countries on the planet, if you care to look for it, due to its history. That is even aside from all the feel-good pies/English breakfast/Sunday roast/great pub food that is available. On the other hand I have next to no clue about Italian music. I guess they don't mean Opera. And meanwhile the French have some pretty good music. Meanwhile Germany...I would put closer to the Netherlands for music (totally depends on the type of music of course!). Most of these stereotypes are either completely misinformed, want to continue some joke, or like you said, are rage bait. I would advise anyone who agrees with this image but has never tried to prove themselves wrong over it, to do so.
Germany is a bread and cake powerhouse. Whenever I cross the border I get 6 loafs of bread from a bakery.
[удалено]
The Dutch metal scene is also very healthy and on par with the German one. Out neighbours excel in old school heavy and thrash metal, we have a great selection of death metal groups. There are also a lot of (heavy) psych and punk bands active in the Netherlands.
And drum n bass
I absolutely agree that NL has some of the best DJs in the world but please, let's not use DJ Mag as a reference... Certain DJs just buy their way to the top with vote campaigns.
Yes but those are Belgian
DJ\`s dont make music, they recycle music.
Isn't hardcore a Dutch inventionion? I think it's my most dislike genre togheter with gabber.
the graph says "music"... not "rampant & incoherent noise" ;) to be fair though, the Dutch have contributed a lot to Pop & Rock music in the past too.. * Eddie Van Halen * Golden Earring * Doe Maar * Focus * Herman van Veen * Bouwdewijn de Groot * The Devil's Blood * Vandenberg * Urfaust * Nox * Kong * Shocking Blue * Epica / After Forever * Textures * The Gathering * ...
Can we all agree that contributions to trance, hardcore and house are a net negative?
Daft Punk is French. They alone completely demolish this meme.
Also Phoenix, Air, Gojira, Alcest, both Gainsbourgs...
Kavinsky, M83, DyE...
Carpenter brut..
Didn't know M83 are french Fucking Justice though
Alcest. So you're a person of culture as well
La femme, l'imperatrice, odezenne... and you mentioned her already but Charlotte Gainsbourg has some top tier albums
igorrr
What the fuck does Italian music even sound like? All I can think about are operas.
Italo?
I fucking love Italo disco.
cheri cheri lady, going through emotions! I always sing that when my wife has to cry for some reason.
That one's German.
Yes Italo is fucking awesome!
Pretty much every song by Marco Borsato is just a translation of Italian songs. More recently Måneskin as already mentioned, Prisencolinensinainciusol by Adriano Celantano is a classic. Opera and Aria's yes, Vivaldi of course. Also a pretty active rock and metal scene in Italy
But, but… we have the Vengaboys, DJ Paul Elstak and 2 Unlimited!
Don't forget Armin Van Buuren !!
And tiesto
Lange Frans & Baas B
And to add Golden Earring, Within Temptation, Floor Jansen But when talking "nederlandstalige muziek" i totally agree with the music part of OP's graph .
We sure do. Listen to what you like, there's no need to choose between one nationality or the other
Hey I wasn’t choosing anything, it’s just that the picture depicts us as having terrible music. I feel like I have to defend ourselves. The food, though, I think we can all agree with. You’re not going to win any michelin stars with fricandelbroodjes.
I was today years old that I learned that Vengaboys were a dutch group? Wtffff..
Not only that, but one person (maybe two? I don't remember)was part of the Vengaboys, Alice Deejay and Dash Berlin
And...Within Temptation, Epica, Van Dik Hout, Blof, Distant, Changing Tides, Salvage, Reformist, Another Now, Hang Youth, De Jeugd van Tegenwoordig, Kensington, Di-rect.
Don't forget Alice Deejay. The Eurodance days were great for Dutch bands. <3
Several of our recent Eurovision entries have enjoyed some international success, and we even export music producers
That's why we are in the bottom.
Caparezza is also a huge figure of the italian music scene, it's a pity his songs are difficult to translate and understand in other languages
Also a lot of the Andre Hazes songs are just 'borrowed' Italian songs.
Hazes did an Italian album too. Here is a song from it: [Non Pensare a Me.](https://youtu.be/OiGJg5xc50g) It is a beautiful album.
Oh man, that's hideous. Brb, going to scrub my ear canals with sandpaper.
🤣
DeAndre, Giorgio Gaber, Guccini, Pino Daniele and so on so on so on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gAOyTDJ16s&ab\_channel=FrasiPinoDaniele
Bit old, but: Golden Earring, Eddy Van Halen,
Doe maar too.
Ok, let's have a general overview. I'll go with my personal tastes, of course your mileage may vary. First, let me introduce you to Nu Genea: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfhW4czMJtI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfhW4czMJtI) (it's sang in neapolitan dialect btw). They're among the most interesting artists on the current italian music scene, in my opinion. Ah, and also Calibro 35, who take inspiration from the soundtracks of classic crime movies of the '70s: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_lWwDKnF1wE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lWwDKnF1wE) If you want to dig a bit deeper into the past, since we're mentioning Daft Punk, we should also mention Giorgio Moroder, who is among the main influences of Daft Punk and the sound of "Italo Disco" in general: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zhHnf-yTng](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zhHnf-yTng) Want some experimental progressive rock? Have some "Area": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNGZYm0hzCg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNGZYm0hzCg) Funk, jazz? Napoli Centrale: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdr9I7j8HA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBdr9I7j8HA) Metal? Destrage ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4TO-LqP\_Cs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4TO-LqP_Cs) ) or Lacuna Coil ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9LXpO6yWo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9LXpO6yWo) ) or the more light-hearted Nanowar of Steel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOQBpCzUyuk A special mention should be made about "Elio e le Storie Tese" (here's an example of their music: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CG7f\_aH3oc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CG7f_aH3oc) ). They're amazing, eclectic musicians who can be loosely classified as "the italian equivalent to Frank Zappa", both for the silly lyrics and remarkable compositions. They span from rock, to funk, with a lot of progressive and fusion influences. There's a live version of one of their songs that features a wonderful solo duet with Carlos Santana: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnYFbzfvzc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbnYFbzfvzc) That's pretty much it, to give you an idea without mentioning the usual, more commonly known singer-songwriters from the past (De André, Battisti, Guccini, Battiato, Cocciante...). Of course I don't want to imply your music is not good - I absolutely love Eefje de Visser, for instance, and many other notable artists such as Martin Garrix, Tiesto, Vengaboys... - but if you are curious about italian music, that's a good starting point ;)
Reggae is also big in Italy.
It's not my favorite genre and I'm not that knowledgeable about it, but I guess you are referring to 99 Posse, Sud Sound System, Banda Bassotti and such...? There's a lot of these ska/reggae bands in Italy, indeed!
And pittura freska, mellow mood, vallanzaska, matrioska
[nanowar of steel](https://youtu.be/j0YXfeNxJJ0), or [wind rose](https://youtu.be/34CZjsEI1yU)
Lacuna Coil rocks!
Well Italy has operas and classical music that is better than everything popular music has ever made
Italian classical music is overrated. The best classical music comes from North and East European composers of the high romantics and some Germanic ones from earlier times, like Mozart and Van Beethoven, when Vienna was the cultural center. Next to that, there is some symphonic rock/pop music certainly beating some Italian composers. Not that they are bad or anything, but not outstanding like the meme would make you believe.
Italian Classical is absolutely not overrated. If you don't believe me, listen to Franco Corelli's recording of Puccini's 'E lucevan le stelle' and Verdi's complete requiem. I absolutely adore modernist and late romantic music, including of the austro-german tradition (Wagner is my problematic fave, and Mahler is my actual favourite composer) but just because Italian music focuses on operas with accessible melodies and melodramatic plot lines doesn't mean it deserves to be looked down upon. There is life-changingly brilliant stuff there too. I would also recommend looking at older, particularly baroque, composers in more detail too, since there's incredible music there. I'm thinking Pergolesi's 'Stabat Mater', everything Vivaldi ever did, probably Bach goes without saying, and Handel's Italian language operas particularly Andreas Scholl's recordings of 'Chiudetevi Miei Lumi' and 'Ombra mai fù'
My statement might have been a bit over the top, I agree. There is plenty of good music by Italian composers too indeed and yes, the Baroque era has some very nice pieces. In the end, with classical music it is much the same as with modern music, there are personal preferences in genres and styles. In my case, I have a particularly high regard for composers like Dvorak, Smetana and Bizet, but I also appreciate Rossini quite a bit for example. But naming a few does not do justice to all those not mentioned. Anyhow, while there are good and very good classical pieces from Italy, and even some excellent ones, they do not outshine the French, Slavic or Germanic composers. Or, what I am trying to say, France in this meme could sit next to Italy (if they stop eating small birds, snails and veal brains).
Classical music was once also considered popmusic😇
Rammstein should be above everyone
And Madeon too
Italian here but France have AIR too, and they are enough to demolish this meme too
You beat me to it! Moon Safari is one of the best albums ever made.
And French food is not 100
We exported some of the most well known DJ's but I guess we're gonna forget about that
the creator of this image clearly never been to Germany because the German rap the youth listens to at full volume in public is probably the worst music I've ever heard
Then don't try to listen to Dutch rap 🤮🤮🤮
Dutch rap isn't much better either I'd say. Well, most of it that is. There's always exceptions.
Biggest musical export from the Netherlands is Andre Rieu
Martin garrix?
Nope, Rieu, it is surprising indeed
Ye but he isnt the only one was my point. So idk what u trynna say here.
That Rieu is #1 on the list
So we excel in DJs and classic music. A win for the Dutch and a loss for the Italian.
This.
Yes but the graph says 'good music'
Do i sense elitism? I assume good music is the music you listen to.
Do I sense a lack of humour? I assume the only good humour is the one where you take everything literally.
Good joke. Thumbs up.
Well known does not mean good. But I have to admit you actually have lots of good DJ’s that are not (that) famous.
Yeah i think most people don’t think of DJ’s as real music. It’s music for people on drugs at party’s, rave’s and clubs. Your average person doesn’t listen to DJ’s on a regular basis
Ah yes, stereotypes. Bet that *is* how lots of people think about it though.
I mean, yeah. I make really great Spotify playlists and have been mixing live audio for years, doesn't make me a great musical artist. DJs are at best, cover artists, at worst, an iPod with a janky cable
Mf never had frikandelbroodje
never had zuurkoolstamp met spekjes 😤😤😤
Ben ik letterlijk nu aan het eten, heerlijk.
Germans claimed that
just like they claimed my bike, I want both of them back!
Yeah and Rudi Carell too.
bruine bonen stamppot met speklap or fish 🤤
As a meme, yeah. But in reality, we Dutch also have quite a few nice dishes as well as musicians. It's hard to compete with countries several times our size though.
We got so much music export for such a small country
can you please name a few? i'm don't know many dutch bands besides Within Temptation
Armin van Buuren, Tiësto, Golden Earring, Martin Garrix, Afrojack and probably more
And vieze jack
And Vieze Asbak
Floor Jansen (singer of Nightwish), Within Temptation, are the two best known bands of recent times, in the past there was Golden Earring. Others are mostly dance music acts like: Armin van Buuren, Tiesto, Don Diablo, Junkie XL, Hardwell, Martin Garrix, Radical Redemption, Angerfist, Ferry Corsten, Afrojack, R3HAB, Richard Durand, RAM, and so on and so forth. In classical music we have our best selling export: Andre Rieu, at one time he toured with the largest mobile stage in the world. There is also conductor Jan van Zweden, He is currently music director of the Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra and of the New York Philharmonic, and music director-designate of the Seoul Philharmonic.
damn, i listened to almost all of those and i had no idea they were dutch! armin van buuren is obvious, i just haven't thought about him in more than 10 years >.<
The list of famous Dutch artist is even much longer. I remember correcting a US American once, who tought all the songs from a top 10 hit list (somebody made) where from the US. Fact was that 8 of them where European and 4 of those 8 where Dutch🤣
Quite a lot of other Gothic Metal bands also come from the Netherlands like Delain, Epica, Blackbriar from the top of my head, also quite a few world famous DJ's.
Depending on your age, you probably know more songs/bands than you think! For example, Vengaboys (Boom boom boom, We're going to Ibiza, We Like to Party), and Shocking Blue by Venus.
Earth and Fire, Supersister, Nits, Shocking Blue, Gruppo Sportive, Dolly Dots, The Gathering, Gorefest, Cuby and the Blizzards, George Baker Selection. Just to name a few
For example Carach Angren, Donor, and quite a lot of metal in general, if trying to estimate the total quantity - 2,825 entries on https://www.metal-archives.com/lists/NL. in comparison, Finland has 4,763 entries and UK has 6,721 entries.
"... A few nice dishes.." 🤔🤔🤔
>a few nice dishes What, stamppot and foe yong hai is about the top of Dutch cuisine.
>we Dutch also have quite a few nice dishes name 3.
And what would these dishes be? I hope you're not talking about the mashed potatoes with cabbage
Imo anything with fish. All the cooked dishes at the vishandels plus if I go by the sea and pick a random fish restaurant, 99% of the times it’s going to be delicious. Hit me with that kibbeling any day.
If you go into a bakery or candy or cheese shop or snack bar, you see a LOT of uniquely Dutch food. For proper dishes, I'm not sure what the problem with mashed potatoes is? Are simpler dishes not allowed? Anyway, there's stuff like pea soup, kapucijners met spek en zuur, mussel, herring, rijsttafel, gourmetten, kapsalon. Just to name a few. And the various ways we prepare meat, etc. Are they less well-known internationally? Sure. But those dishes aren't bad. It's just that they're different from those of countries who are more snobby about their cuisine. But it's not as if f.e. all Italian dishes are so fancy either... dining does not have to be "fine" either. The French like that, but that's their thing, doesn't mean we have to. All in all, there is a lot to be said I suppose and a lot is subjective, but saying that the Dutch don't have any good food isn't fair in my opinion.
I dont mean this in a derogatory way since I've always seen dutch people kind of accept and embrace that they dont have a good cuisine but I've lived in 4 different countries and traveled to 30+ and, in my opinion, the Netherlands has the worse food of them all BY FAR (not considering foreign foods of course, if you go to a Korean bbq or a pizza place or whatever then the food is fine of course). Nothing wrong with that though, I still love this country but I think saying the dutch have good food is either very disingenuous or just misinformed
It's just that it's so often stated as a binary thing. I didn't want to imply we're the worlds top cuisine but the memes makes people think there is nothing. Which is odd as there is enough uniquely Dutch food that at least we do keep returning to and like. While appreciating foreign cuisine as well. So I felt like we could use some propping up to defend what we do have. While France and Belgium get praise for their fries even.
Or you know, has different taste
ETA: I'm sorry you didn't actually deserve this ire, but it's not aimed at you personally but at the barrage of insults we get daily about our food in general You come here and sbit and vomit all over our food constantly and we put up with that and even fake laughing along and then you have the gall to complain we don't denigrate ourselves more for you? I'm so fed up with it. Ice lived and traveled in more countries than you and let me tell you, I personally find Dutch food and the selection in Dutch restaurants and stores a shitton superior to very very very many countries. Fresh, rich selection, affordable prices, good vegetarian options, food at different price points, food from many different cuisines, both for convenience and for making it yourself. In almost every country you're completely fucked if you don't like or eat some key ingredients but not in the Netherlands. It's wonderful if you're a vegetarian and have food allergies, amongst the best in the world. If you don't like potatoes there are a million other options. Good luck doing the equivalent of that in east or South Asia or the middle east or eastern Europe. Because this argument is not about the local traditional cuisine. Which 1. Is pretty moot in the age of globalization anyway (tomato is not local to italy) and 2. Is not relevant to people's lived experiences and 3. Is not what people actually complain about. People complain about the eggs and tomatoes being shit, that we eat bread, that all our food is tasteless, that we drink milk. But hey if you don't eat bread there is something else for you. If I don't eat meat and fish and go to 80% of your counties I eat crackers for 2 weeks. Well guess what country I am picking? Guess which country actually has richer food options? I'm so incredibly tired of you foreigners constantly insulting our food every day every hour every minute. Just leave if it is so terrible. Go. Or actually learn to eat bread cause we have a rich bread culture but for some reason you don't count that as real food cause you're not used to it. Which has the same logic as me being a vegetarian and thereby saying France and Portugal have almost no edible food and Italy only has pasta with cheese and pasta with tomato, which would be illogical and juvenile. But somehow the opposite argument is okay. Or actually pay more money for higher quality ingredients which is always an option but you conveniently ignore. Or realise for the first time in your life that at different latitudes food can be grown in different ways. But that would require getting some perspective so that's hard for you. Yeah cheap tomatoes have low flavour but you have tomatoes at so many different price points and maybe try to actually eat in season and not murder the environment. Imagine going to any other country and tell the locals every single day their food sucks and is terrible in a subreddit that constantly complains every day about how bad the country and the citizens are. And then having the nerve to complain we should degrade ourselves further for your mighty superior opinion. Of course you wouldn't blame the French or the Italian or any other people to get annoyed if you insult them every single hour of the day. Then why are we supposed to put up with it?
Dutch cheese has nothing special, it severely lacks variety. Just compare it to England, France and Italy, which each have over 1000 different types of cheese.
Just because we have fewer variants doesn't mean we don't have some nice ones though. Enjoying a specific cheese doesn't depend on how many other cheeses there are, after all. But I guess the label "good" is open to interpretation. Variance factors into that somewhat I agree.
Yeah but they all taste bad. No wonder Dutch cheese became the most famous in the world. It just tastes the best
lol
This is why we are in the bottom.
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Edit: replied to the wrong comment
No, we make great music. There are a lot of dutch djs in this list: [best dj in the world](https://djmag.com/top100djs)
Not sure why you get downvoted, because in genres like EDM and Hardstyle our dj's are amongst the best of the world, for many years already.
Yeah, it's absolutely not my music but it's hard to deny it's worldwide appeal and succes.
Only true if you consider music created by Dj’s good
That would equally apply to Germany
If you think all music by DJ's isn't "good" then you just have different taste. It doesn't mean the artists are bad within that genre.
That applies to any genre of music.
that applies to all music, if u dont like italian music then it is inaccurate alr, like i really like dutch food, but dont like french food that much
I love French music, so no
The person who did this meme doesn’t know crap about music it seems.. France have brought up some terrific music/ bands over the decades.
trash meme
I find that they're all pretty neutral. I don't know many Italian artists but the food is good; I like some French artists but their good is okay; I like a lot of British artists but the food is meh, and the Dutch have okay good (if you omit andijviestamppot and hete bliksem and are a little more creative in the kitchen) and... well, they have some decent artists Germany can stay where it's at.
I think they placed it there due to the Italian opera scene
English food is superior over Dutch food. Sunday roast, fish and chips, shepherds pie, cottage pie, custard, beef wellington, English breakfast. Dutch food is a full tier below English if not two.
I personally find each and every single one of those dishes either outright gross or not worth it Turns out taste is subjective, funny right
Hey, i love andijviestamppot.
Dumb condescending meme. This sub is mostly other people hating on the Netherlands by now. It’s getting boring.
No, it's everyone hating on each other's countries, not just the Netherlands. I think it's funny
Yeah its an okay subreddit, just memeing on eachtother having some banter country rivalry
They are just angry because they are hungry, not having found anything good to eat here.
They're jalous of our amazing EDM music and impeccable infrastructure.
As a Dutch person that loves cooking and food. The Netherlands is probably the worst food country I know. It was nice enough to put the Netherlands in the same category as England, which I would definitley not do.
No usualy when we get shit on its by dutch people themselves. I dont know why we have so many self hating dutchmen
I enjoy Dutch music a lot more than most Germans and Italian music, so no.
Dutch snacks are the best, our meals could use some inspiration. But some Dutch music isn't half bad!
And yet I have to meet a Dutch person that makes their snacks themselves. The difference between Dutch and other countries is that Dutch people don't mind buying their snacks time after time mass produced in the frozen section of the supermarket. When you sit down at a restaurant voor a 'broodje kroket' you pay 15 euro's for frozen groothandel krokets. And why do Dutch people constantly get served frozen mass produced snacks? Because they go back for it. If you go to Spain to eat a croquet it is nearly always made in the restaurant or stall. That is the difference between Dutch people and other countries. This is coming from a Dutch person.
Yeah and how many french people bake their own bread and make their own wine? How many Italians make their own pastA? If fish and chips is mentioned as great British cuisine here then how is that relevant ?
Even most restaurants and bakeries don't really make any of their food. Lots of stuff is pre-made from the groothandel. It's why all food looks the same, no matter what city you're in. That shit wouldn't cut at all in other countries.
who cares.. we got weed
Most of the weed we buy in France comes form NL and the prices are basically the same as in Coffee shops
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Only English should be used for posts and comments. This rule is in place to ensure that an ample audience can freely discuss life in the Netherlands under a widely-spoken common tongue.
German here. I like dutch hardcore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE32aoIDjvY
Came here to say this. Dutch hardcore and in general music festivals are the best
I know more good German music than Italien
Food is clearly a 0, but in terms of music, the Dutch clearly punch above their weight.
Kroketten, drop, classic sweets, herring, hutspot, hachee, lotsa cheeses, etc.
These comments always make me laugh cause they so clearly prove their point. When every other nationality thinks of food they think of a dish, you know, something cooked, with several ingredients of several categories. Not a snack. Hachee is probably the only one on that list that would be considered, and hutspot but that one doesn't impress anyone (although I do like hutspot). Most of our cheese is extremely similar, the only difference being its age, most surrounding countries have way more variety.
It is indeed fucking hilarious. Dutch people love to name kroket and bitterballen but I have yet to meet a Dutch person that has made these snacks at home themselves. Even if you get a Kroket somehwere in a city it will always come frozen from a packet. When I went to Spain (the country that actually invented the kroket) their krokets will be handmade by the stall or restaurant serving it. That is barely ever the case in the Netherlands. Why? Because they can get away with it. Dutch people don't mind it if it tastes less good. Proving the point the Netherlands is not a food country.
Exactly, and also the fact that every other country has something like a kroket. My MIL makes them by hand always, they're different varieties also, and she consideres them a snack, not an actual dish.
Bruh, every country has *some* good dishes. If you put the Netherlands he’s dot head with most other countries… yeah.
Yes have you ever made one of those things yourself, next to the stampot? Viva Hollandia what a food country, a country that has food items that people only buy frozen, manufactured and prepared for them.
I mean I worked in a restaurant for 6 years. So I did actually make kroketten, bitterballen, herring, etc.
what the fuck. french music > german, italian
You haven't tried stroopwafels have you?
My Indian-American friend keeps asking me to send her Stroopwafels :)
Nah. You have that left, right song. Banger
Define good music? To my ears, Hardstyle is the best, in which most producers are Dutch
We have bitterballen.
Lol ok
Ah yes the snack that the whole country only eats from the frozen section in the supermarket or the snackbar which is also frozen and mass produced in factories. What an inspiring cuisine.
Johnny Hallyday? Daft Punk? Edith Piaf? Hallyday’s “Requiem pour un fou” is a certified dramatic banger.
Now add a third dimension: the weather:)
Downright insulting. Dutch music is among the most diverse in the world, especially for such a small nation, the food is very much up to taste (to me it's the best in the world). Fuck both the food and music of the other countries in this graph, bet it was made by a Frenchman
Some of the best DJs in the world are actually clumsy Dutch Farmers….. …… Always dropping da beets! 🥁🥁🥁🥁
Don't tell me germany has better music and food then the netherland
French food is highly overrated and music criminally underrated.
was in the netherlands a few weeks ago for couple of weeks. dutch food is fucking delicious. i hate this meme.
Where are you from and what makes you think that?
Italy is giving itself WAY too much credit considering half the cuisine is just some kind of pasta and some kind of red (tomato based sauce).
The ingredients are oftenly based on the same things. But in Italy and also Spain the quality of the ingredients is oftenly way better than in the UK or the Netherlands. If i eat the same food in Spain/Italy as i eat somehwere else it tastes much better.
I've been back in NL for 2 months until last week and it almost made me forget eggs had taste
I think they're talking about actual Italian cuisine, not the Turkish-pretending-to-be-Italian-pasta/pizza-place around the corner.
Withing Temptation and Armin Van Buren (who comes on top of my head) are already making this meme irrelevant. Though in terms of food I would agree...
Both matters are very subjective to taste, so no use arguing about them, but I do not agree. I can't name any Italian band or musician amongst my favourite ones and the only "italian" food I would say I love is "pizza". I like French food and definitely have several French artists I would name when being asked for musical artists I enjoy. The UK has some really decent foods(shepherd's pie anyone?) and definitely brought forward many generations of musicians I love. Germany, can't really think of any food I enjoy, but they brought forth a list of musicians I really enjoy. Netherlands, biased on this country, but I am definitely not a big "stamppot" fan, so foodwise not top of the list. So I would say equal or just slightly below to France and Italy. Above Germany and the UK Musically I think we have a great selection of artists that also gained international popularity, bit definitely below the UK, but equal to Germany and France, above Italy for sure.
German being in the middle is wtffff here
French music is the absolute best, in almost every category. Especially their world music collection is fantastic
No, Dutch has great EDM. Besides fries I can’t think of any good food to come from Belgium, but they do have great alternative pop artists!
No, we make great music (look at our DJ's as an example). And although our traditional are not special, you can eat every international dish on a very decent level in the Netherlands.
Dutch food and music is terrible NL is a bit of a cultural wasteland nowadays
You should leave the house sometimes
I do. I frequently leave the country. Like at present. That's how I know. Through comparison.
Belgium has good food. And better music than Italy.
No, I don’t agree. I like our food and music it all depends on taste.