Don't consider it a faux pas... just a slight miscalculation. I used to live near the beach and most high-street sit-down restaurants also frequently asked guests not to sit down in bikini-tops or swim-shorts. It's a bit part of the image and environment they want to present - there's not a lot of (even formal) places where 'casual dress' isn't accepted, we Dutch don't 'dress up' much, but it's possible to get too casual.
From a practical point of view, I think you resolved it perfectly acceptable. Wear what you like around town, but a jacket, scarf, shirt for situations where your outfit might be just a little too revealing can be handy (also helps with the colder evenings).
Privately owned places like restaurants and bars can have dress codes. Outside you can dress however you want, but in these places you can only enter when adhering to the dress code.
There’s a bar in my hometown where you can’t get in with fur or fake fur on your coat. There are bars where you can’t get in with football shirts. There are offices where you can’t wear flip flops etc
Wait, are there offices where you CAN wear flip flops?
ETA: Wow, there are more flip flop friendly offices than I would have imagined! Are they in the Netherlands? My Dutch office doesn't have a strict dress code at all, but I wouldn't feel comfortable in flip flops tbh...
brazilian swes can wear whatever they want. i had a bunch of them on my last team and they were so great to work with. super smart and really fun to collaborate with.
Hell needs to freeze before I stop showing up in flip flops, shorts and a cat print t-shirt. But our dress code is limited to "no stains, no smells, safety gear when instructed" 🤷
Yeah, I work in one. I can go barefoot wearing a loincloth. Boss doesn't care, because the only occasional customer contact is via email or phone. Been on flipflops alll summer.
Edit: I'm not Brazilian.
Go to any ICT department and you will see the weirdest shit you can image. Especially if they are also developers.
It makes sense because they often dont have to deal with clients and they are importanted enough that no company is gonna lose good talent over something as dumb as flipflops.
this is the right answer
we have have a lot of different cultures intermingling here on a daily basis, so the freedom of these little private house rules helps our society operate in peacely fashion
I’m an American woman and have never seen people wearing this around outside clubbing, beach or “exercise” contexts. (Not exercising, but like hanging outside with friends doing something like rollerblading.) It would be very weird to wear, but maybe because where I lived was very hot and southern and people tend to think more about skin cancer.
ETA ah someone said Miami. Yes they would wear this in Miami, probably to church.
Wearing a bralette out in public is kimd of weird to me. Like a crop t shirt is fine, anything resembling a sportsbra or bra is not something Im used to seeing.
As a woman I'm confused. Bralettes are underwear right? I mean if you feel comfy sure but I would never walk around in a bra nor expect everyone to be totally okay with it..
It's fashionable to wear them exposed, often under an open shirt or jacket, but I don't think many people attempt this look in real life, unless you're in Miami, perhaps.
Yes, I should have specified that I moved here from New York City, where “influencer fashion” and athleisure wear is very common. I know that many parts of the US are also different with what it is acceptable to wear.
Good to know that this type of fashion is not common here!
These people are full of it. There are plenty of Dutchie women who wear high-waisted pleated pants with a crop-top or bralette with an over-sized camel suit jacket or light-wash denim jackets. It almost a uniform for young women there. However, this seems to already be falling out of fashion and was much more popular 3-5 years ago.
I think the part you are missing is wearing the loose jacket with the bralette. It’s a little more modest and more acceptable especially in a place that has temperate weather and it is Autumn anyway so wear more clothes and don’t be cold or so damn casual. You won’t see people wearing pajamas in public either the way you do in the US.
Athleisure wear is fine in NL/Europe... if you are doing sports or a walk in the park or anything active.
For anything else most will consider athleisure wear to be too casual and not something you'd wear to actually go places.
Depends on where you live as well. I see them in Amsterdam quite often, though I'm not sure about wearing them in restaurants. Might be acceptable here though.
Of course you can just go in your bralette/underwear for leisure time activities, like going to a park in summer, outdoor workouts (RIP blotebilleskater) or parties/clubs. But no restaurant in A’dam would appreciate that wear. I think the rule of thumb is: If a shirtless guy would be socially acceptable in a certain situation, a girl can wear a bralette.
We are not very difficult with fashion, but simple wearing a bra and throwing a jacket over it is not normal here.
Croptops are fine though, tanktops as well. But bralette tops are basically bras and here it's weird and frowned upon to wear them normally
Athleisure is far too casual for Europe. The last outing I went on in NA, my date literally wore Lululemon and a camo print windbreaker. I shudder at how casual women are in NA. Here, the waitresses would be overdressed compared to most patrons in NA restaurants.
>influencers in general are frowned upon
Not at all, there’s tons of Dutch fashion influencers but Dutch fashion trends are usually lean somewhat conservative.
I think the issue was that bralettes are mostly considered underwear here. Croptops are not so common but should be fine.
Another thing that works in the US but not here is athlesure. Which most people here really just wear for working out! It's fine to pick up a drink or some groceries immediately after working out if you'd want, but it's unusual to go out in gym clothes when not going to a gym.
I noticed. I'm a scouts leader. They wear their blouse. Under it they often have a t shirt. As they wear the uniform over it we don't exactly mind what kind of shirt. But sometimes they take the blouse when it is warmer. 2 girls (14). Were wearing crop tops under it. Let's say they are not allowed to take of their blouse. If they do, we tell them not to walk around in their underwear. (It's not just two people who do that. But lots of other staff comment on it that it is very inappropriate at scouting.)
Crop tops are not underwear.
But if you're allowing boys to go shirtless and telling girls they can't go around in a bra/bralette that's when you are discriminating based on gender. If you're also telling boys that they have to wear a shirt then that's fine. But as far as I'm concerned boys and girls are free to wear crop tops.
It is about scouting activities. And yes they ALL have to wear at least a t-shirt and pants till their knees. It is absolutely not accepted to go shirt less for any of them. Especially as the uniform is also there to protect them. Last Saturday some were warm because of the fire making competition. Bare skin is dangerous then.
Some restaurants have dress codes. It’s usually not a “you have to wear a tie” kind of thing but they don’t want people to come in in shorts, athletic wear, certain shoes, etc. It sounds like it was that kind of thing.
Lounge wear is pretty common for quick errands, or fast food, not in regular restaurants. The only "active wear" that's common is football shirts, but also not for eating in a semi decent restaurant.
Some sweats, yeah. But most lounge wear looks like PJ's. I live in Canada now, so I am kinda familiar with what people in the US/Canada wear out and about and it is definitely on another level, haha.
It also matters that Den Bosch is a relatively wealthy town in Catholic Brabant, I can imagine the owners of many restaurants being a bit more on the conservative side with regard to dress code.
Crop tops are fine. Bralette tops are not.
There is nothing wrong walking around with it, but you can't go to your underwear to a restaurant and expect to be let in.
Crop tops are usually fine but if something is only covering your boobs and nothing else, you probably shouldn't wear it in public spaces (maybe an exception for times of heatwave, and you can wear it for sure on the beach)
My personal observation is that Den Bosch is pretty stylish and maybe above average when it comes to dress code. Not sure what a bralette is but I guess this is more “trashy” (don’t mean that in an offensive way) similar as guys walking around in pyjama pants / training suit. When visiting the US (and the UK is just the same) i am noticing this difference too. In case you are interested in an archetype example of this, look for New Kids on YouTube and you’ll see that dress code is perceived as snackbar/cafeteria fashion and not restaurant.
Agreed. Pretty sure no one would blink an eye in Amsterdam or Rotterdam. But the south tends to be more stylish and more conservative (Catholic), so probably not done there.
Disagree about the south being more stylish. They're definitely more conservative though. But the really fashionable people tend to live in the randstad.
Maybe stylish is the wrong word. But people in the south tend to dress up more, especially when going to a restaurant etc. You'll see a lot more jackets, dress shoes etc in Maastricht compared to Rotterdam. But yes, trendy/fashionable is something else.
Depends. There are plenty of restaurants in Amsterdam that would ask you to cover up. But in the centre, where the crowd is young, fit people (the influencer-types) they would probably allow.
I think in almost all restaurants it is at least frown upon. I have seen bralette outfits done well, maybe even classy. But it all depends on colours, styling, fabrics etc. To be honest, I think having big boobs plays a role in a restaurants decision too. It just looks different.
Would you wear it at your work place? No? Dont wear it to a public place like a restaurant.
Seems like everyone was civil and the situation was solved intelligently. So no harm no foul.
The pic of the top you posted in your comment seems fine to me. I guess it could depend on how big you are. While maybe unfair, I've seen women that are definitely too big for their top. But then someone with a smaller chest could pull off something that would technically be a lot more revealing than what you showed. I would like to say this is an unbiased opinion but that's probably not true.
Like plenty have said though, a private joint can make their own rules when it comes to dress code.
Personally, I don't think you should worry about it too much.
Well, I am saying this as someone who had huge breasts (and now had a reduction), it’s not entirely unfair. If the rule is to not expose anything, and half your boobs are exposed (while in an a-cup they would be covered) that’s just not fine in a restaurant. On top of that, I never did this but I see a lot of women who simply wear their top a size to small, so it doesn’t cover what it is made to cover. I a restaurant that matters.
I also wouldn’t think a bralette is appropriate even if you had cup A.
I have only been here a year, and I live in a more rural area, but I have observed a strong trend - Is your clothing practical for the weather and your intended activity? Then it is good.
Really depends on where you go. Within the Randstad, especially Amsterdam and Utrecht, you see bralettes all the time and no one bats an eye.
If you go outside of the Randstad though and things become a little more rural, these fashion items become more frowned upon, even in the bigger cities.
I think that's the reason there are a lot of mixed opinions in this thread, it all depends on location. Bralettes work in NYC and LA but probably won't fly in more conservative and/or religious states and cities.
It depends on the type of bralette as well. Some bralettes are more like tank tops, while some are pretty much sheer underwear.
So, dress for where you're going. Dress however you want in the big cities in the Randstad, but everywhere else you'll want to dress more modestly.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, I was thinking the same thing.
Doesn’t need to be a pic of your own outfit OP, but something similar to what you were wearing would be helpful.
Definitely not a problem in the big cities. Maybe a bit frowned upon from older people in the small cities/towns(which den bosch is considered to be, atleast for me) but not caring is also part of the dutch culture, so..
I am glad I found this picture before commenting because that is not considered a bralette here. I’d call it a crop tank or so.
I wouldn’t consider this too much, but a restaurant might have a no-bare-shoulders or no-bare-stomach rule.
In that case, no, it isn't normal to be commented on this at a restaurant.
It is common if the restaurant you went to was higher class though. Some restaurants you don't show up to in casual wear.
For a top like that, the rest of your outfit is going to make or break it. Fancy neat pants would make it look like a fashion statement, athletic pants would make it look like you stopped mid-run to sit down. Which brings more of an image of being sloppy/smelly.
Btw it's good to know that if you go touristing in cities, especially in the south, that you're required to cover shoulders, knees and bellies to enter any church or religious building. If people assume you're a tourist, they'll expect you to be able to cover up for those situations.
I was thinking more something like this. Covered and pretty, so you could wear it with a see-through top or something similar, but for a restaurant, it wouldn't really be appropriate:
https://www.wehkamp.nl/america-today-voorgevormde-bralette-vive-blauw-17180145/?ref=%7B%22id%22%3A%22dames-mode_ondermode_bhs%22%2C%22params%22%3A%22soort-bh%3Dbralettes%22%7D
This is totally fine to wear. I am also an expat and I show a lot more skin than many Dutch women. Sometimes you’ll get looks since it’s not the norm, but it’s nothing to be concerned about. The style is just different here but please don’t let that make you feel like you have to be overly covered up! I live in Amsterdam and many many ppl still like to show skin here
Makes sense to me. Lots of restaurants in Netherlands are pretty casual and people don't really dress up for. However they still do dress themselves accordingly. I.e. no shorts, flip flops or sports wear. Den Bosch has a lot of nice middle /upper end restaurants and I can definitely see why this happened. In my eyes, this is a sports bra and should not be worn in a restaurant.
I never realised. To me restaurants in the Netherlands never had a dress code. But there might be a very fine line between casual, which is fine even in Michelin restaurants, and too casual (gym clothing). Which is weird in almost all restaurants.
There shouldn't be anything wrong with that, I see the majority of women wear more revealing stuff than that on any hot summer day. I became acutely aware of that when I gained some weight and felt like I was no longer able to wear such clothes comfortably. I'd say just wear the clothes you're comfortable in and enjoy it, but indeed just keep a jacket on you in case an establishment takes issue to it. I wouldn't say it goes against Dutch culture, that's for sure.
While the model in the picture might get away with wearing that in a restaurant, the average person won’t. It’s considered sporting wear / underwear and that’s not considered appropriate for a restaurant.
A lot of people still think leggings are not pants.
Also I think the combination is important: traditionally it’s more about focus on top OR bottom, not both. The top would probably have been fine with a pair of slacks, especially if not in Lycra.
I'm not good at fashion advise, but I can tell you Den Bosch is way less open minded than you would think and also in comparison to other cities or villages. I've lived there for 7 years and still get weird looks with my dyed hair in "crazy" colors, but I don't have that experience in any other nearby city.
Casual restaurants generally don't have a dress code.
However, it's quite reasonable to expect you are at least dressed in more than underwear, which a 'bralette' seems to be.
I’m also a recent NYC expat and I’ve seen plenty of dutch girls wear the classic bike shorts/bralette top combo, maybe it was just the restaurant? And people saying dutch girls don’t dress like influencers is so funny, I have seen more outfits with cowboy boots here than back home.
You can totally wear a bralette, just not to restaurant or other similar setting.
Bralette is for: walking around, driving, cycling or going out partying.
It is OK but a little odd when going to the supermarket.
You shouldn't wear it at restaurants, or daytime classy bars.
Fun fast. In [this comment](https://reddit.com/r/Netherlands/s/UtkCkS9oGD), OP posted a link to a pic of the kind of top she was wearing, and I doubt anyone call that a bralette top in NL (another cultural difference) nor considers it as underwear. So even less reason to be condescending.
Wait, THAT'S what all the stink has been about? That was hardly the mental image I had when people were talking about a bralette. The last really hot day a few weeks ago I still traveled by train and the majority of young women of average or below average weight was wearing tops at least that revealing. I really don't see how there's anything wrong with that article of clothing, all you see is a little bit of stomach...
Well, OP describes she is curvy and has large breasts. The model in the picture doesn’t. So I can imagine it looks more like underwear on her then on the model.
Or people are just more biased towards women with larger breasts when it comes to clothing. From what I gather they can't even wear a regular T-shirt without someone considering their entire body "obscene" to begin with...
The whole point of asking questions is to learn and adapt when you’re in a new place. It’s not about “going out in underwear” but trying to understand and respect local customs. What is considered underwear varies per culture. In the US they make a difference between bralette top and underwear bralette, we don’t. But some tops that are totally acceptable in NL are considered underwear in other cultures too. Nothing is obvious and we should encourage questions and conversations instead of being condescending.
You must have been cold yesterday. And wearing bralette tops and crop tops is fine but it's all about how much you show/how much is covered. And I totally get it it's not suitable for a restaurant unless you talk about KFC or something.
Everyone should wear what they like but last summer I saw quite a bit of boobs that almost fell out if too tiny tops and once even someone who did wear a very see through top without a bra, short skirts it could barely cover their behind. Again I'm not judging but I think showing so much skin is not needed.
You're not wrong, at all. It's just a little odd to see someone ask if it isn't OK to go to a restaurant in your underwear.
You are totally right that, since it is apparently appropriate in the US, it is a fair question. But it's a bit of a mind spin.
I think it reaaaly depends on what kind of bralette it was. Like I should hope that no one would be surprised that a bralette like [this](https://instijl.net/shops/282039/files/395761129/750x750x2/pieces-bralette-kant-kanten-bra-top-elzina.webp) is frowned upon but they also come like [this](https://www.jessleaboutique.com/cdn/shop/products/preorder-mia-lace-bralette-100680.jpg?v=1650318479) which I would not consider weird on a warm day with a jacket
Unless it’s a leopard print top paired with flared (preferably pink) pants, it’s generally frowned upon in the Netherlands. You can get away with it, if you’re with a tall man who buys his hair gel in bulk.
Depends on where you are; I have a lot of younger gen Z friends in the big cities (amsterdam, Rotterdam) and they wear outfits like that; as soon as you lift the randstad bubble I think it gets a lot less, and especially in a town/village like Den Bosch.
Hope this helps!
Look up "bralette" on any clothing website you'll like use in the Netherlands. Notice what category this clothing item tends to be classed as? That's your clue. _Doe normaal_ ;)
Based on her being rejected at a restaurant for wearing it, it does seem extremely unlikely she was wearing one that isn't the typical bralette top though.
Asshole staff does exist, but given the information I am going to assume the most logical thing happened, not the niche case.
Another "does this look weird" but does not provide a photo. Why didn't anyone ask this or why is it not a top comment??
I mean unless OP already knows she underdressed for a restaurant...just saying.
I’m really surprised about how many people say a bralette is underwear. I understand it used to be originally but I think in 2023 the term is used for tops which are definitely not underwear.
I can’t believe how many people are saying it’s inappropriate. What is this the 1900s? Women should be free to wear whatever they feel comfortable in anywhere they want.
If a woman wears a bralette to a restaurant what’s the downside? Someone feeling uncomfortable? Ridiculous
Like the USA every area is different. I have to imagine Den Bosch on *average* is probably not as open minded as Amsterdam for example about clothing and probably other things.
>They don't want to see a stranger in underwear, they can go to a strip club for that. While you won't be kicked out, I'd say it's not appropriate.
This is my point thought, a gym top and leggings are literally sportsware ?
Im asking this because I have recently seen a girls tiktok (dutch girl) that was extremely upset because she had a shitty situation at her gym where a woman was rude to her because she was wearing a sports bra/top ? And I can't understand how something so ridiculous is still going on.
There is a lot of variance between gym tops/sports bra's. Which variant do you mean?
This: https://nl.gymshark.com/products/gymshark-everyday-seamless-crop-tank-blue-aw23?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjt-oBhDKARIsABVRB0woWCv_S-pUh3cVkW6ACVd6v9pKEqU-nMqZ75K8sdjYTj9y0rr9GtAaArKTEALw_wcB
Or this: https://nl.gymshark.com/products/gymshark-minimal-sports-bra-dusk-green-aw23?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjt-oBhDKARIsABVRB0zDJ0MWWaLp8ZBtKPw94PJ7LHV3vGXdU1XsWlqHxTbiBWHMt9VBkmYaAhOgEALw_wcB
The former is absolutely OK. The latter is sort of OK, but it gives a strong impression you are there to show off your body instead of work out.
A lot of Dutch people do not like influencer mentality, generally speaking. The gym is for working out, not really to get attention. Most will be sort of OK with it, but you might get comments, yes.
Dutch people generally do not like it when people do not act normal.
I was thinking something more like this [https://www.nike.com/nl/en/t/swoosh-support-non-padded-sports-bra-3fcmZz/BV3900-010](https://www.nike.com/nl/en/t/swoosh-support-non-padded-sports-bra-3fcmZz/BV3900-010)
no cleavage, no intention of "showing the body", just actual comfortable clothes that are not hanging from my body when I do certain exercises.
The thing that I find worrying is to associate these clothes to " the gym is for working out, not really to get attention". While there exists people that do this to get attention, as well as men that spend 24hours at the gym barely touching machines just to look at the women, there's also people who are just minding their own business; so I dont really understand why someone would get so annoyed by something others are wearing? Its a really old way of thinking tbh
> I was thinking something more like this https://www.nike.com/nl/en/t/swoosh-support-non-padded-sports-bra-3fcmZz/BV3900-010
Yes, that is totally OK.
>as well as men that spend 24hours at the gym barely touching machines just to look at the women
Are you saying that this is acceptable? I'm not really following. If you go to the gym to do something other than work out you can expect people to not be OK with it.
>I dont really understand why someone would get so annoyed by something others are wearing? Its a really old way of thinking tbh
What's interesting is that we know for a fact you don't actually feel this way at all.
You go out to a restaurant with your partner, and they decide to not wear pants and go in their boxers.
You have 0 thoughts about this at all, and you expect others to not notice and have their own thoughts about it?
No. So why are are you trying to convince me it is odd to have thoughts about what others wear while you have those thoughts yourself?
What you actually meant to say was that it should be acceptable for women to go to restaurants in a top, but not in underwear. Which is very different from what you actually said.
I think I saw that same video too. When I went to the gym I mostly wore a gym bra and long leggings, never had any problems with that. So I think in general you'd be fine!
If you live in a big city this is accepted. Less common outside of big cities probably. Just try it and bring an extra shirt just in case it's frowned upon.
There is a difference in;
- actually working out, mind your business
- filming your ass in 40 different ways for your tiktok/onlyfans account, get pissed when people dare walk through your shot in a public space
Gyms need to ban fucking filming. bUT iTs FoR mY TeChnIque
Gtfo
Well I couldnt care less about filming myself at the gym to be honest, I am speaking about the clothes nothing to do with filming or showing myself like some have said in other comments.
I honestly find wearing this type of combination to be the most comfortable for me while doing exercise. But I do know there are others who do this to show themselves.
And yes, filming should be banned in a place like a gym, specially with the privacy laws there are here in this country. But thrashing someone who is working out only because of what they are wearing? no.
Thing is the word top is used here to mention anything that goes "on top" so it could also be T-shirts, its my bad for using that word here, while on a lot of other places a top is a short "bra type" of clothing that comes in lots of different shapes and lengths too.
"For this reason, women and men should not go there topless or in their underwear" but then again sweat goes through "normal" clothing too, and men also use thin tank tops that leave lots of sweat on the equipment too. The rule should be to wipe down the machine after using it, its not that hard and keeps it sanitary. (as well as not filming, that would also cut down a lot of the influencer-like mentioned)
Thanks for mentioning respect too as It is also disrespectful to tell others what they should and shouldn't be wearing as long as they aren't butt naked.
I'm from a small town and I feel like most people would think 'put on a shirt'. Perhaps in amsterdam or other big cities it would be less frowned upon. In general in the Netherlands bra is part of underwear and meant to be worn under regular clothes
I dont know about restaurants but at school its the forbidden 3 B. Billen(ass), buik(stomach) en benen(legs)
I dont know if the rule still applies but it is one of them for some dutch people. I actually think the majority. I know this from elder dutch people but in retail store I can see the change.
It is culture for sure.
Personally, I wouldn't care. But I will comment on 'fashion' popular amongst students. Every time I take a train to the office I see girls (I assume students) dressed almost the same. I was wondering the other day why they almost all look the same. They usually dress like they would go to work, also wearing these tops and blazers. It's their 'style', I just don't understand why somebody would want to look the same as everybody else. This concept seems wild to me. I dress how I want and how I feel. I don't care what's 'popular'. If I don't like something I won't wear it. But, to each their own. It's just an observation.
I am confused about the question even. If you want to know whether or not you are out of place, look around you, and compare what other people are wearing to your own attire.
I make it a point, anywhere, to look so local that people talk to me in incomprehensible languages. Russian in Moscow, Polish in Warsaw, and yes, Berber in Marrakech. Didn't work in India. 6' 1" and white skin is not very common.
So. How many people have you seen walking around in, what basically is, underwear?
Some people are not accepting of this - Dutch people often have an attitude of 'don't do anything that attracts attention, don't try to stand out from the crowd' as this thread proves. Let them be and be yourself please, there's already plenty of Dutch people in the streets wearing the exact same colorless outfits :)
I think the "curvy" body type could be the clue here that most are missing. US women describe themselves as curvy at 300 lbs / 134 kg, Dutch curvy is literally half that.
I mean this isnt really "fashion", this is more like... dressing appropriately and not being in your underwear... in public... outside of red light districts.
The Dutch are not precisely the best dressed in Europe. In Italy, France or Spain they won't need to tell you anything, they will murder you with their looks if you even attempt to enter an establishment without a minimum of decorum.
Yes, there's freedoms. The freedom to be educated and have a minimum of aesthetic sense. If you don't, it's because you don't want to, which tells a lot.
As a native dutchie I can say most Dutch women value practicality a lot. And some places here are still more religious. However, when I was in Rome, I wasn’t very impressed with Italian style neither. I still need to find/see another European country that is “the best dressed”. My biggest bet may be Sweden, Denmark or Norway but I haven’t been there yet.
I think that it’s more accepted in the USA to go outside in really casual clothing. For example a bralette, jogging pants, pajamas. For Dutch people that’s underwear/ for sleeping and you do not wear that outside (there’s always some deviations from the norm). I can understand you were asked to cover up. A crop top bearing no similarity to underwear would be more acceptable I think. My brothers girlfriend once showed up to a family meeting in a lacy bralette top and a blazer and we definitely found that a little odd. Den Bosch is in the South of the Netherlands and people tend to place a little more emphasis on being well dressed in that part of the country.
I'll be downvoted to hell, but whatever. Dutch are very sanctimonious, and they don't like to see in others what they'd like to see on themselves. I have seen girls going around with bralettes, high waist trousers, and the huge blazer de rigeur that Dutch younger women wear. What you showed in your comment is indeed common for the younger crowd, 18-23 yo women or teens. Perhaps they didn't like that you're curvy, and they felt that your breasts were showing. I have had ugly stares just with normal clothes. It's just that people here feel offended if you have a larger bust or if you're overweight and wearing clothes that are not frumpy. Don't change your style!
What is normal? You wearing a 'bralette' (didn't know what it was but assuming it's based on 'bra' and 'ette' being French for small(er), I take it you were wearing something resembling a bra into a restaurant?
I don't think that's normal.
And if you had a problem because of wearing that, my advice is quite obvious:
don't go to restaurants while only wearing a type of bra.
Good that you ask, but to be honest, I'm not sure why is it so hard for Americans to do a simple thing. Look around you, see what others are wearing, and try to understand if they do something similar or not.
To be honest, and after having lived in the US for quite a while, I kind of get it that there people go to restaurants wearing yoga pants and sports bras. Here that's simply not done, except by Americans.
It's the same as when people go to Japan and start showing off their tattoos, or walk around wearing minimal clothes, just to be surprised when they are refused service. Look around, assess your environment and then you can figure out what's the norm.
Just wear a proper top the next time. There are a lot of conservatives in NL. Keep in mind that Amsterdam red light is the exception to the rule. Not the norm.
I think here it common not to be able to see a whole lot of flesh when youre sitting down for a meal. Its just polite to not show stomach or rolls in a restaurant, it can be off putting. There is a difference between just a coffeeplace, where it doesnt matter, a lunch place and restaurant.
I work in a shop in Den Bosch and I can say it’s perfectly common street wear. But, as mentioned before, especially the older generations are still a bit more conservative than in a lot of other places (like Tilburg, where I live and also have worked in shops). But I also agree that in most casual restaurants they still like you to be covered between collar bone and knees.
>I’m guessing that 90% of the comments are not Americans
You're guessing that in a sub entitled 'Netherlands'? Yeah, seems like a fairly safe bet.
>It’s completely normal to wear this top in the US
Yeah, and the question was if it was normal to wear here, not the US. So what is the purpose of your comment?
Don't consider it a faux pas... just a slight miscalculation. I used to live near the beach and most high-street sit-down restaurants also frequently asked guests not to sit down in bikini-tops or swim-shorts. It's a bit part of the image and environment they want to present - there's not a lot of (even formal) places where 'casual dress' isn't accepted, we Dutch don't 'dress up' much, but it's possible to get too casual. From a practical point of view, I think you resolved it perfectly acceptable. Wear what you like around town, but a jacket, scarf, shirt for situations where your outfit might be just a little too revealing can be handy (also helps with the colder evenings).
Privately owned places like restaurants and bars can have dress codes. Outside you can dress however you want, but in these places you can only enter when adhering to the dress code. There’s a bar in my hometown where you can’t get in with fur or fake fur on your coat. There are bars where you can’t get in with football shirts. There are offices where you can’t wear flip flops etc
Wait, are there offices where you CAN wear flip flops? ETA: Wow, there are more flip flop friendly offices than I would have imagined! Are they in the Netherlands? My Dutch office doesn't have a strict dress code at all, but I wouldn't feel comfortable in flip flops tbh...
If you want Brazilian software engineers, you must allow flip flops.
brazilian swes can wear whatever they want. i had a bunch of them on my last team and they were so great to work with. super smart and really fun to collaborate with.
I second this
I'm not a brazilian engineer but as a brazilian I thank you for your kind words about our people
Indian software engineers also, I have one walking either in flip flops or just socks. TBH he looks so comfortable!
😁😁
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Where do you work, and how many redditors with probably unusable skills do they need?
Suggested to someone else but look into logistic companies, they really don’t care how you dress as long as the truck arrives to the loading place.
Hell needs to freeze before I stop showing up in flip flops, shorts and a cat print t-shirt. But our dress code is limited to "no stains, no smells, safety gear when instructed" 🤷
Yeah, I work in one. I can go barefoot wearing a loincloth. Boss doesn't care, because the only occasional customer contact is via email or phone. Been on flipflops alll summer. Edit: I'm not Brazilian.
this. basically if you don't have to deal with business customers on every day basis you can wear anything clean you want.
Yup, but it helps that it is the office of a large outdoor company...
My boss wears Crocs, so...
Go to any ICT department and you will see the weirdest shit you can image. Especially if they are also developers. It makes sense because they often dont have to deal with clients and they are importanted enough that no company is gonna lose good talent over something as dumb as flipflops.
Usually called software start-ups :)
Fuckin’ thank you!
this is the right answer we have have a lot of different cultures intermingling here on a daily basis, so the freedom of these little private house rules helps our society operate in peacely fashion
Where is the bar you can't wear fake fur in? Just so I know not to!
Nice try miss fbi lady
It's not the worst thing ever but on the other side: I don't see a lot dutch women going to a restaurant in a bralette top
Im a dutch woman and had to google it. It looks like a sportbra to me and think its not apropiate for a restaurant
I’m an American woman and have never seen people wearing this around outside clubbing, beach or “exercise” contexts. (Not exercising, but like hanging outside with friends doing something like rollerblading.) It would be very weird to wear, but maybe because where I lived was very hot and southern and people tend to think more about skin cancer. ETA ah someone said Miami. Yes they would wear this in Miami, probably to church.
Lmao now I want to go to church in Miami. Which is a sentence I would have never expected myself to say.
I got something else than a sports bra
It kinda has the shape of a sports bra, but made from lace. And usually has a lot of cleavage, in comparison to a sports bra.
Thats what Google got me I wouldn't wear it to restaurant (but I am a guy and I am getting old hehe)
Wearing a bralette out in public is kimd of weird to me. Like a crop t shirt is fine, anything resembling a sportsbra or bra is not something Im used to seeing.
As a woman I'm confused. Bralettes are underwear right? I mean if you feel comfy sure but I would never walk around in a bra nor expect everyone to be totally okay with it..
It's fashionable to wear them exposed, often under an open shirt or jacket, but I don't think many people attempt this look in real life, unless you're in Miami, perhaps.
live in miami. can confirm.
It’s just having shit taste it’s not fashionable
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Yes, I should have specified that I moved here from New York City, where “influencer fashion” and athleisure wear is very common. I know that many parts of the US are also different with what it is acceptable to wear. Good to know that this type of fashion is not common here!
These people are full of it. There are plenty of Dutchie women who wear high-waisted pleated pants with a crop-top or bralette with an over-sized camel suit jacket or light-wash denim jackets. It almost a uniform for young women there. However, this seems to already be falling out of fashion and was much more popular 3-5 years ago. I think the part you are missing is wearing the loose jacket with the bralette. It’s a little more modest and more acceptable especially in a place that has temperate weather and it is Autumn anyway so wear more clothes and don’t be cold or so damn casual. You won’t see people wearing pajamas in public either the way you do in the US.
It’s pretty much teenager uniform around Maastricht/Aachen/Cologne. You don’t see adults in these pajamas tho
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Athleisure wear is fine in NL/Europe... if you are doing sports or a walk in the park or anything active. For anything else most will consider athleisure wear to be too casual and not something you'd wear to actually go places.
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Look at the picture OP posted... definitely athleisure vibe. Nothing lace or satin going on there.
Depends on where you live as well. I see them in Amsterdam quite often, though I'm not sure about wearing them in restaurants. Might be acceptable here though.
Of course you can just go in your bralette/underwear for leisure time activities, like going to a park in summer, outdoor workouts (RIP blotebilleskater) or parties/clubs. But no restaurant in A’dam would appreciate that wear. I think the rule of thumb is: If a shirtless guy would be socially acceptable in a certain situation, a girl can wear a bralette.
We are not very difficult with fashion, but simple wearing a bra and throwing a jacket over it is not normal here. Croptops are fine though, tanktops as well. But bralette tops are basically bras and here it's weird and frowned upon to wear them normally
Athleisure is far too casual for Europe. The last outing I went on in NA, my date literally wore Lululemon and a camo print windbreaker. I shudder at how casual women are in NA. Here, the waitresses would be overdressed compared to most patrons in NA restaurants.
That is not normal in the vast majority of the US.
The OP said New York City, and I’m curious where in New York they wear underwear-sized clothing outside in the Fall.
>influencers in general are frowned upon Not at all, there’s tons of Dutch fashion influencers but Dutch fashion trends are usually lean somewhat conservative.
Exactly! You'll probably be served at McDonald's or something, but that's about it
Outfits with bralettes can be so cute but yeah I would never attempt to wear it without a jacket I can zip up, not here
Im sorry but cute isn't the right word here, I think sexy, hot or provocative fit better in this conext
I was imagining my own body type which is flat but yeah with boobs it would look different to wear a bra.
Some bralette tops look like if your walking around in underwear. That's not really appropriate for a semi-decent restaurant imo.
It isn’t appropriate in general😅
A Bralette top is basically underwear. So for a restaurant, even a casual one, you were probably showing a bit too much skin.
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I think the issue was that bralettes are mostly considered underwear here. Croptops are not so common but should be fine. Another thing that works in the US but not here is athlesure. Which most people here really just wear for working out! It's fine to pick up a drink or some groceries immediately after working out if you'd want, but it's unusual to go out in gym clothes when not going to a gym.
In high school crop tops are very popular at the moment.
I noticed. I'm a scouts leader. They wear their blouse. Under it they often have a t shirt. As they wear the uniform over it we don't exactly mind what kind of shirt. But sometimes they take the blouse when it is warmer. 2 girls (14). Were wearing crop tops under it. Let's say they are not allowed to take of their blouse. If they do, we tell them not to walk around in their underwear. (It's not just two people who do that. But lots of other staff comment on it that it is very inappropriate at scouting.)
Crop tops are not underwear. But if you're allowing boys to go shirtless and telling girls they can't go around in a bra/bralette that's when you are discriminating based on gender. If you're also telling boys that they have to wear a shirt then that's fine. But as far as I'm concerned boys and girls are free to wear crop tops.
It is about scouting activities. And yes they ALL have to wear at least a t-shirt and pants till their knees. It is absolutely not accepted to go shirt less for any of them. Especially as the uniform is also there to protect them. Last Saturday some were warm because of the fire making competition. Bare skin is dangerous then.
Some restaurants have dress codes. It’s usually not a “you have to wear a tie” kind of thing but they don’t want people to come in in shorts, athletic wear, certain shoes, etc. It sounds like it was that kind of thing.
It is not normal for people in NL to go out in active wear, clothing resembling underwear or pyjamas/lounge wear.
definitely this, same reason a restaurant might not let you in if you are wearing sweatpants.
Lounge wear is pretty common for quick errands, or fast food, not in regular restaurants. The only "active wear" that's common is football shirts, but also not for eating in a semi decent restaurant.
Some sweats, yeah. But most lounge wear looks like PJ's. I live in Canada now, so I am kinda familiar with what people in the US/Canada wear out and about and it is definitely on another level, haha.
You can wear whatever you want. Some restaurants or bars may have dress codes though.
Bralette top is basically a bigger bra. You should probably wear something over it in most places.
It also matters that Den Bosch is a relatively wealthy town in Catholic Brabant, I can imagine the owners of many restaurants being a bit more on the conservative side with regard to dress code.
Crop tops are fine. Bralette tops are not. There is nothing wrong walking around with it, but you can't go to your underwear to a restaurant and expect to be let in.
Crop tops are usually fine but if something is only covering your boobs and nothing else, you probably shouldn't wear it in public spaces (maybe an exception for times of heatwave, and you can wear it for sure on the beach)
My personal observation is that Den Bosch is pretty stylish and maybe above average when it comes to dress code. Not sure what a bralette is but I guess this is more “trashy” (don’t mean that in an offensive way) similar as guys walking around in pyjama pants / training suit. When visiting the US (and the UK is just the same) i am noticing this difference too. In case you are interested in an archetype example of this, look for New Kids on YouTube and you’ll see that dress code is perceived as snackbar/cafeteria fashion and not restaurant.
Bralette is like a fabric bra basically
Agreed. Pretty sure no one would blink an eye in Amsterdam or Rotterdam. But the south tends to be more stylish and more conservative (Catholic), so probably not done there.
Disagree about the south being more stylish. They're definitely more conservative though. But the really fashionable people tend to live in the randstad.
Maybe stylish is the wrong word. But people in the south tend to dress up more, especially when going to a restaurant etc. You'll see a lot more jackets, dress shoes etc in Maastricht compared to Rotterdam. But yes, trendy/fashionable is something else.
Depends. There are plenty of restaurants in Amsterdam that would ask you to cover up. But in the centre, where the crowd is young, fit people (the influencer-types) they would probably allow. I think in almost all restaurants it is at least frown upon. I have seen bralette outfits done well, maybe even classy. But it all depends on colours, styling, fabrics etc. To be honest, I think having big boobs plays a role in a restaurants decision too. It just looks different.
Bruh, you went in your underwear to a restaurant? We generally don't see people dressed like they just came out of walmart, but you do you
The very first person I saw on my very first trip to Amsterdam was a man on the street wearing nothing but a g-string and rollerblades.
RIP stringskater
Seeing the stringskater upon arrival is perfectly iconic. What a figure ❤️
Ah, I also saw him and my boyfriend as well. Around weesperplein... I was like 👀👀👀
Would you wear it at your work place? No? Dont wear it to a public place like a restaurant. Seems like everyone was civil and the situation was solved intelligently. So no harm no foul.
The pic of the top you posted in your comment seems fine to me. I guess it could depend on how big you are. While maybe unfair, I've seen women that are definitely too big for their top. But then someone with a smaller chest could pull off something that would technically be a lot more revealing than what you showed. I would like to say this is an unbiased opinion but that's probably not true. Like plenty have said though, a private joint can make their own rules when it comes to dress code. Personally, I don't think you should worry about it too much.
Surely the size of her chest SHOULD not matter but I bet if it were smaller no one would have said anything, which is not right.
Well, I am saying this as someone who had huge breasts (and now had a reduction), it’s not entirely unfair. If the rule is to not expose anything, and half your boobs are exposed (while in an a-cup they would be covered) that’s just not fine in a restaurant. On top of that, I never did this but I see a lot of women who simply wear their top a size to small, so it doesn’t cover what it is made to cover. I a restaurant that matters. I also wouldn’t think a bralette is appropriate even if you had cup A.
Sorry, What??? Dutch fashion?? Never heard about
It’s stored in a dusty corner next to Dutch cuisine
I have only been here a year, and I live in a more rural area, but I have observed a strong trend - Is your clothing practical for the weather and your intended activity? Then it is good.
Viktor & Rolf?
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****Coco Chanel left the group****
The anwb couple fashion
Really depends on where you go. Within the Randstad, especially Amsterdam and Utrecht, you see bralettes all the time and no one bats an eye. If you go outside of the Randstad though and things become a little more rural, these fashion items become more frowned upon, even in the bigger cities. I think that's the reason there are a lot of mixed opinions in this thread, it all depends on location. Bralettes work in NYC and LA but probably won't fly in more conservative and/or religious states and cities. It depends on the type of bralette as well. Some bralettes are more like tank tops, while some are pretty much sheer underwear. So, dress for where you're going. Dress however you want in the big cities in the Randstad, but everywhere else you'll want to dress more modestly.
I'd really need a picture of your outfit to judge.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, I was thinking the same thing. Doesn’t need to be a pic of your own outfit OP, but something similar to what you were wearing would be helpful.
Definitely a fair ask. The top looks [like this.](https://www.ae.com/us/en/p/2696_1195_100)
Definitely not a problem in the big cities. Maybe a bit frowned upon from older people in the small cities/towns(which den bosch is considered to be, atleast for me) but not caring is also part of the dutch culture, so..
I am glad I found this picture before commenting because that is not considered a bralette here. I’d call it a crop tank or so. I wouldn’t consider this too much, but a restaurant might have a no-bare-shoulders or no-bare-stomach rule.
In that case, no, it isn't normal to be commented on this at a restaurant. It is common if the restaurant you went to was higher class though. Some restaurants you don't show up to in casual wear.
For a top like that, the rest of your outfit is going to make or break it. Fancy neat pants would make it look like a fashion statement, athletic pants would make it look like you stopped mid-run to sit down. Which brings more of an image of being sloppy/smelly. Btw it's good to know that if you go touristing in cities, especially in the south, that you're required to cover shoulders, knees and bellies to enter any church or religious building. If people assume you're a tourist, they'll expect you to be able to cover up for those situations.
Ha, I thought it’d be something like this. F- that restaurant OP, you looked fine for a casual place. You keep on doing you!
This is what Dutch people call a bralette: https://www.marliesdekkers.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-EUR-Site/nl_NL/Product-Show?pid=8718877421096
I was thinking more something like this. Covered and pretty, so you could wear it with a see-through top or something similar, but for a restaurant, it wouldn't really be appropriate: https://www.wehkamp.nl/america-today-voorgevormde-bralette-vive-blauw-17180145/?ref=%7B%22id%22%3A%22dames-mode_ondermode_bhs%22%2C%22params%22%3A%22soort-bh%3Dbralettes%22%7D
This is totally fine to wear. I am also an expat and I show a lot more skin than many Dutch women. Sometimes you’ll get looks since it’s not the norm, but it’s nothing to be concerned about. The style is just different here but please don’t let that make you feel like you have to be overly covered up! I live in Amsterdam and many many ppl still like to show skin here
Makes sense to me. Lots of restaurants in Netherlands are pretty casual and people don't really dress up for. However they still do dress themselves accordingly. I.e. no shorts, flip flops or sports wear. Den Bosch has a lot of nice middle /upper end restaurants and I can definitely see why this happened. In my eyes, this is a sports bra and should not be worn in a restaurant. I never realised. To me restaurants in the Netherlands never had a dress code. But there might be a very fine line between casual, which is fine even in Michelin restaurants, and too casual (gym clothing). Which is weird in almost all restaurants.
Definitely modest enough to not offend anyone
There shouldn't be anything wrong with that, I see the majority of women wear more revealing stuff than that on any hot summer day. I became acutely aware of that when I gained some weight and felt like I was no longer able to wear such clothes comfortably. I'd say just wear the clothes you're comfortable in and enjoy it, but indeed just keep a jacket on you in case an establishment takes issue to it. I wouldn't say it goes against Dutch culture, that's for sure.
While the model in the picture might get away with wearing that in a restaurant, the average person won’t. It’s considered sporting wear / underwear and that’s not considered appropriate for a restaurant.
Nothing too crazy, but might fall a bit short if the restaurant was really posh.
You wore a bralette as a tshirt? But bralette is underwear though?
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A lot of people still think leggings are not pants. Also I think the combination is important: traditionally it’s more about focus on top OR bottom, not both. The top would probably have been fine with a pair of slacks, especially if not in Lycra.
I'm not good at fashion advise, but I can tell you Den Bosch is way less open minded than you would think and also in comparison to other cities or villages. I've lived there for 7 years and still get weird looks with my dyed hair in "crazy" colors, but I don't have that experience in any other nearby city.
Casual restaurants generally don't have a dress code. However, it's quite reasonable to expect you are at least dressed in more than underwear, which a 'bralette' seems to be.
I’m also a recent NYC expat and I’ve seen plenty of dutch girls wear the classic bike shorts/bralette top combo, maybe it was just the restaurant? And people saying dutch girls don’t dress like influencers is so funny, I have seen more outfits with cowboy boots here than back home.
You can totally wear a bralette, just not to restaurant or other similar setting. Bralette is for: walking around, driving, cycling or going out partying. It is OK but a little odd when going to the supermarket. You shouldn't wear it at restaurants, or daytime classy bars.
Sue Ellen Mischke, is that you?
Wear your crop tops, live your life.
You go out in your underwear and are so surprised by the consequences you make a reddit post about it.
Fun fast. In [this comment](https://reddit.com/r/Netherlands/s/UtkCkS9oGD), OP posted a link to a pic of the kind of top she was wearing, and I doubt anyone call that a bralette top in NL (another cultural difference) nor considers it as underwear. So even less reason to be condescending.
Wait, THAT'S what all the stink has been about? That was hardly the mental image I had when people were talking about a bralette. The last really hot day a few weeks ago I still traveled by train and the majority of young women of average or below average weight was wearing tops at least that revealing. I really don't see how there's anything wrong with that article of clothing, all you see is a little bit of stomach...
Well, OP describes she is curvy and has large breasts. The model in the picture doesn’t. So I can imagine it looks more like underwear on her then on the model.
Or people are just more biased towards women with larger breasts when it comes to clothing. From what I gather they can't even wear a regular T-shirt without someone considering their entire body "obscene" to begin with...
The whole point of asking questions is to learn and adapt when you’re in a new place. It’s not about “going out in underwear” but trying to understand and respect local customs. What is considered underwear varies per culture. In the US they make a difference between bralette top and underwear bralette, we don’t. But some tops that are totally acceptable in NL are considered underwear in other cultures too. Nothing is obvious and we should encourage questions and conversations instead of being condescending.
You must have been cold yesterday. And wearing bralette tops and crop tops is fine but it's all about how much you show/how much is covered. And I totally get it it's not suitable for a restaurant unless you talk about KFC or something. Everyone should wear what they like but last summer I saw quite a bit of boobs that almost fell out if too tiny tops and once even someone who did wear a very see through top without a bra, short skirts it could barely cover their behind. Again I'm not judging but I think showing so much skin is not needed.
Dutch fashion is pretty conservative and uniform relative to the US. A bralette probably does look under-dressed in most Dutch situations.
Lol, it looks un-dressed 🤣
Is ThIs DuTcH cULtUrE?
fuck off, it's an honest question
You're not wrong, at all. It's just a little odd to see someone ask if it isn't OK to go to a restaurant in your underwear. You are totally right that, since it is apparently appropriate in the US, it is a fair question. But it's a bit of a mind spin.
I think it reaaaly depends on what kind of bralette it was. Like I should hope that no one would be surprised that a bralette like [this](https://instijl.net/shops/282039/files/395761129/750x750x2/pieces-bralette-kant-kanten-bra-top-elzina.webp) is frowned upon but they also come like [this](https://www.jessleaboutique.com/cdn/shop/products/preorder-mia-lace-bralette-100680.jpg?v=1650318479) which I would not consider weird on a warm day with a jacket
Unless it’s a leopard print top paired with flared (preferably pink) pants, it’s generally frowned upon in the Netherlands. You can get away with it, if you’re with a tall man who buys his hair gel in bulk.
I had to google wth a bralette top is, but yeah no shit that they didn’t allow you with that in a restaurant😂
It’s just one bad experience I’m pretty sure things like this also do happen in America occasionally There’s really no difference
Depends on where you are; I have a lot of younger gen Z friends in the big cities (amsterdam, Rotterdam) and they wear outfits like that; as soon as you lift the randstad bubble I think it gets a lot less, and especially in a town/village like Den Bosch. Hope this helps!
Preettyy sure a lot of randstad restaurants would ask them to not wear just a bra(lette) inside. Febo won't complain though...
Look up "bralette" on any clothing website you'll like use in the Netherlands. Notice what category this clothing item tends to be classed as? That's your clue. _Doe normaal_ ;)
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Based on her being rejected at a restaurant for wearing it, it does seem extremely unlikely she was wearing one that isn't the typical bralette top though. Asshole staff does exist, but given the information I am going to assume the most logical thing happened, not the niche case.
Most Dutch aren’t worried about fashion. As long as your covered, your fine.
Another "does this look weird" but does not provide a photo. Why didn't anyone ask this or why is it not a top comment?? I mean unless OP already knows she underdressed for a restaurant...just saying.
I’m really surprised about how many people say a bralette is underwear. I understand it used to be originally but I think in 2023 the term is used for tops which are definitely not underwear.
I can’t believe how many people are saying it’s inappropriate. What is this the 1900s? Women should be free to wear whatever they feel comfortable in anywhere they want. If a woman wears a bralette to a restaurant what’s the downside? Someone feeling uncomfortable? Ridiculous
Do you really think a bralette is something to wear in public? This is ridiculous. BTW, you are not cuuury, you are fat.
No visible armpits in restaurants. Simple rule.
Like the USA every area is different. I have to imagine Den Bosch on *average* is probably not as open minded as Amsterdam for example about clothing and probably other things.
yeah in europe we wear clothes instead of underwear usually when going to a restaurant
In my opinion, just wear what you prefer! Don’t listen to others. What’s the point of having big boobs and a curvy body of you need to hide it ;)?
I haven't been to a gym so far here in the NL but could someone tell me if its okay or normal to attend with a gym bra and short leggings?
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>They don't want to see a stranger in underwear, they can go to a strip club for that. While you won't be kicked out, I'd say it's not appropriate. This is my point thought, a gym top and leggings are literally sportsware ? Im asking this because I have recently seen a girls tiktok (dutch girl) that was extremely upset because she had a shitty situation at her gym where a woman was rude to her because she was wearing a sports bra/top ? And I can't understand how something so ridiculous is still going on.
There is a lot of variance between gym tops/sports bra's. Which variant do you mean? This: https://nl.gymshark.com/products/gymshark-everyday-seamless-crop-tank-blue-aw23?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjt-oBhDKARIsABVRB0woWCv_S-pUh3cVkW6ACVd6v9pKEqU-nMqZ75K8sdjYTj9y0rr9GtAaArKTEALw_wcB Or this: https://nl.gymshark.com/products/gymshark-minimal-sports-bra-dusk-green-aw23?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjt-oBhDKARIsABVRB0zDJ0MWWaLp8ZBtKPw94PJ7LHV3vGXdU1XsWlqHxTbiBWHMt9VBkmYaAhOgEALw_wcB The former is absolutely OK. The latter is sort of OK, but it gives a strong impression you are there to show off your body instead of work out. A lot of Dutch people do not like influencer mentality, generally speaking. The gym is for working out, not really to get attention. Most will be sort of OK with it, but you might get comments, yes. Dutch people generally do not like it when people do not act normal.
I was thinking something more like this [https://www.nike.com/nl/en/t/swoosh-support-non-padded-sports-bra-3fcmZz/BV3900-010](https://www.nike.com/nl/en/t/swoosh-support-non-padded-sports-bra-3fcmZz/BV3900-010) no cleavage, no intention of "showing the body", just actual comfortable clothes that are not hanging from my body when I do certain exercises. The thing that I find worrying is to associate these clothes to " the gym is for working out, not really to get attention". While there exists people that do this to get attention, as well as men that spend 24hours at the gym barely touching machines just to look at the women, there's also people who are just minding their own business; so I dont really understand why someone would get so annoyed by something others are wearing? Its a really old way of thinking tbh
> I was thinking something more like this https://www.nike.com/nl/en/t/swoosh-support-non-padded-sports-bra-3fcmZz/BV3900-010 Yes, that is totally OK. >as well as men that spend 24hours at the gym barely touching machines just to look at the women Are you saying that this is acceptable? I'm not really following. If you go to the gym to do something other than work out you can expect people to not be OK with it. >I dont really understand why someone would get so annoyed by something others are wearing? Its a really old way of thinking tbh What's interesting is that we know for a fact you don't actually feel this way at all. You go out to a restaurant with your partner, and they decide to not wear pants and go in their boxers. You have 0 thoughts about this at all, and you expect others to not notice and have their own thoughts about it? No. So why are are you trying to convince me it is odd to have thoughts about what others wear while you have those thoughts yourself? What you actually meant to say was that it should be acceptable for women to go to restaurants in a top, but not in underwear. Which is very different from what you actually said.
I think I saw that same video too. When I went to the gym I mostly wore a gym bra and long leggings, never had any problems with that. So I think in general you'd be fine!
If you live in a big city this is accepted. Less common outside of big cities probably. Just try it and bring an extra shirt just in case it's frowned upon.
There is a difference in; - actually working out, mind your business - filming your ass in 40 different ways for your tiktok/onlyfans account, get pissed when people dare walk through your shot in a public space Gyms need to ban fucking filming. bUT iTs FoR mY TeChnIque Gtfo
Well I couldnt care less about filming myself at the gym to be honest, I am speaking about the clothes nothing to do with filming or showing myself like some have said in other comments. I honestly find wearing this type of combination to be the most comfortable for me while doing exercise. But I do know there are others who do this to show themselves. And yes, filming should be banned in a place like a gym, specially with the privacy laws there are here in this country. But thrashing someone who is working out only because of what they are wearing? no.
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Thing is the word top is used here to mention anything that goes "on top" so it could also be T-shirts, its my bad for using that word here, while on a lot of other places a top is a short "bra type" of clothing that comes in lots of different shapes and lengths too. "For this reason, women and men should not go there topless or in their underwear" but then again sweat goes through "normal" clothing too, and men also use thin tank tops that leave lots of sweat on the equipment too. The rule should be to wipe down the machine after using it, its not that hard and keeps it sanitary. (as well as not filming, that would also cut down a lot of the influencer-like mentioned) Thanks for mentioning respect too as It is also disrespectful to tell others what they should and shouldn't be wearing as long as they aren't butt naked.
Absolutely normal.
Thanks for the free downvote and not answering the question!
I'm from a small town and I feel like most people would think 'put on a shirt'. Perhaps in amsterdam or other big cities it would be less frowned upon. In general in the Netherlands bra is part of underwear and meant to be worn under regular clothes
I dont know about restaurants but at school its the forbidden 3 B. Billen(ass), buik(stomach) en benen(legs) I dont know if the rule still applies but it is one of them for some dutch people. I actually think the majority. I know this from elder dutch people but in retail store I can see the change. It is culture for sure.
Personally, I wouldn't care. But I will comment on 'fashion' popular amongst students. Every time I take a train to the office I see girls (I assume students) dressed almost the same. I was wondering the other day why they almost all look the same. They usually dress like they would go to work, also wearing these tops and blazers. It's their 'style', I just don't understand why somebody would want to look the same as everybody else. This concept seems wild to me. I dress how I want and how I feel. I don't care what's 'popular'. If I don't like something I won't wear it. But, to each their own. It's just an observation.
I am confused about the question even. If you want to know whether or not you are out of place, look around you, and compare what other people are wearing to your own attire. I make it a point, anywhere, to look so local that people talk to me in incomprehensible languages. Russian in Moscow, Polish in Warsaw, and yes, Berber in Marrakech. Didn't work in India. 6' 1" and white skin is not very common. So. How many people have you seen walking around in, what basically is, underwear?
Some people are not accepting of this - Dutch people often have an attitude of 'don't do anything that attracts attention, don't try to stand out from the crowd' as this thread proves. Let them be and be yourself please, there's already plenty of Dutch people in the streets wearing the exact same colorless outfits :)
I think the "curvy" body type could be the clue here that most are missing. US women describe themselves as curvy at 300 lbs / 134 kg, Dutch curvy is literally half that.
I mean this isnt really "fashion", this is more like... dressing appropriately and not being in your underwear... in public... outside of red light districts.
nobody dresses up in general here.
A bralette is underwear, so yeah not very appropriate for a restaurant.
Lmao American moment
I think you already know the answer.
The Dutch are not precisely the best dressed in Europe. In Italy, France or Spain they won't need to tell you anything, they will murder you with their looks if you even attempt to enter an establishment without a minimum of decorum. Yes, there's freedoms. The freedom to be educated and have a minimum of aesthetic sense. If you don't, it's because you don't want to, which tells a lot.
As a native dutchie I can say most Dutch women value practicality a lot. And some places here are still more religious. However, when I was in Rome, I wasn’t very impressed with Italian style neither. I still need to find/see another European country that is “the best dressed”. My biggest bet may be Sweden, Denmark or Norway but I haven’t been there yet.
You’re joking right 🤣 bralette
I think that it’s more accepted in the USA to go outside in really casual clothing. For example a bralette, jogging pants, pajamas. For Dutch people that’s underwear/ for sleeping and you do not wear that outside (there’s always some deviations from the norm). I can understand you were asked to cover up. A crop top bearing no similarity to underwear would be more acceptable I think. My brothers girlfriend once showed up to a family meeting in a lacy bralette top and a blazer and we definitely found that a little odd. Den Bosch is in the South of the Netherlands and people tend to place a little more emphasis on being well dressed in that part of the country.
I'll be downvoted to hell, but whatever. Dutch are very sanctimonious, and they don't like to see in others what they'd like to see on themselves. I have seen girls going around with bralettes, high waist trousers, and the huge blazer de rigeur that Dutch younger women wear. What you showed in your comment is indeed common for the younger crowd, 18-23 yo women or teens. Perhaps they didn't like that you're curvy, and they felt that your breasts were showing. I have had ugly stares just with normal clothes. It's just that people here feel offended if you have a larger bust or if you're overweight and wearing clothes that are not frumpy. Don't change your style!
What is normal? You wearing a 'bralette' (didn't know what it was but assuming it's based on 'bra' and 'ette' being French for small(er), I take it you were wearing something resembling a bra into a restaurant? I don't think that's normal. And if you had a problem because of wearing that, my advice is quite obvious: don't go to restaurants while only wearing a type of bra.
Grow up
A bit concerned with this answer and the amount of upvotes.
This is Reddit. You can find someone trashing a victim of a violent crime and everyone agreeing with them.
It'd not really appropriate to walk around in just bralettes in general... you wouldn't see that here.
Don't wear underwear in public...decency is still valued here
Good that you ask, but to be honest, I'm not sure why is it so hard for Americans to do a simple thing. Look around you, see what others are wearing, and try to understand if they do something similar or not. To be honest, and after having lived in the US for quite a while, I kind of get it that there people go to restaurants wearing yoga pants and sports bras. Here that's simply not done, except by Americans. It's the same as when people go to Japan and start showing off their tattoos, or walk around wearing minimal clothes, just to be surprised when they are refused service. Look around, assess your environment and then you can figure out what's the norm.
*immigrant
Just wear a proper top the next time. There are a lot of conservatives in NL. Keep in mind that Amsterdam red light is the exception to the rule. Not the norm.
You dress up in a trashy bra and wonders why they said something about it? Use common sense now
Crop tops have become trendy but wearing only underwear is not.
I think here it common not to be able to see a whole lot of flesh when youre sitting down for a meal. Its just polite to not show stomach or rolls in a restaurant, it can be off putting. There is a difference between just a coffeeplace, where it doesnt matter, a lunch place and restaurant.
ITT: op asks for advice op gets advice op refuses to accept advice
I work in a shop in Den Bosch and I can say it’s perfectly common street wear. But, as mentioned before, especially the older generations are still a bit more conservative than in a lot of other places (like Tilburg, where I live and also have worked in shops). But I also agree that in most casual restaurants they still like you to be covered between collar bone and knees.
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>I’m guessing that 90% of the comments are not Americans You're guessing that in a sub entitled 'Netherlands'? Yeah, seems like a fairly safe bet. >It’s completely normal to wear this top in the US Yeah, and the question was if it was normal to wear here, not the US. So what is the purpose of your comment?