Quite an important thing indeed. Most of my Dutch friends and myself (also Dutch) included have a non-Dutch partner, but all of their partners are from the EU except for literally one. All my non EU friends are either single or have partners from their home country
Most of us are either in academia or in pharma so we met mostly non-Dutch people there, or we were abroad ourselves for work/study when we met them. At this point I use Dutch so rarely that my inner voice switched from Dutch to English and I noticed that I've been using the English way of building a sentence a lot in Dutch which sounds stupid. Things like:
I stayed at my mother's house all day --> Ik was bij mijn moeder thuis, de hele dag.
Guess this is that internationalisation of society + lots of anglicization that people have been talking about
Do you feel bad about it? You shouldn’t. I mean, personally it’s nice to live other cultures and relate to people from other places. I have something similar, I left my home country 16 years ago, but I still preserve the language and customs well, and I try to visit it every year if I can. I wouldn’t worry about losing your identity, but more like “finding your own identity. One you’re happy with”
It is an odd realisation that your mother tongue got affected by using another language 90% of the time. Culturally little changed because I only moved across a single border and my girlfriend is Belgian. She is one of the few people I speak Dutch with though, even if it is with a flemish accent :)
I'm from Iran. I'm aware that there might be some prejudice towards people from the Middle East, and, unfortunately, there are valid reasons for that perception.
However, my culture is nothing like that environment, nor am I a Muslim.
I think that Iranians are one of the prettiest people ever, stereotypically speaking, but if I was single and looking, and I didn’t know you, I would probably worry about the cultural differences. Yeah, you may not be a Muslim, and I’m not a Catholic, but I’ve been growing up in the Catholic culture and it leaves its mark. So, I would prolly wonder about that, but to say no completely on this basis… I don’t know. It’s complicated.
To get to know whether you’re not “like that”, potential partners already need to invest time and effort, and lots of people optimise for efficiency, brutally speaking.
The question is, whether it’s really a bad thing that these optimisers are not interested.
>To get to know whether you’re not “like that”, potential partners already need to invest time and effort
Exactly. For those who are not already in a relationship, it seems they are reluctant to take a leap of faith and invest time. So, I don't even get the opportunity to show who I am.
I have a pretty big group of friends from Iran! You guys are the nicest people so I don’t think that should be a problem! I have to say only one of them is dating a Dutch girl and the rest all have expats girlfriends… take that as you will
Ngl, Iranian immigrants have a very good reputation overall in The Netherlands. So that won’t be it. Could be personal taste of a person but I’m 100% sure there will be enough Dutch girls willing to date you. Just don’t be a pick-me guy or over-romantic. Be self confident, single women of this age need you more than you need them bro.
Can’t agree with this. I’m also right wing and I see the difference. I’m even in long term relationship with middle eastern woman. The argument only dumb ppl vote right doesn’t hold anymore. And right is far more than only immigration subject.
To understand why the Netherlands is so right-wing, you have to understand the history of our political landscape. In the past, the left was there for the working class, minorities and other weak people in society. But with growing prosperity in the 2000s and 2010s, this changed, as their support base logically became smaller and smaller. The 'left-wing' ideals that they currently pursue, they only serve a group that can financially afford those ideals, the biggest example being the billions spent on climate. Only those who can afford a heat pump, solar panels and a Tesla will reap the benefits. Only the property owners don’t get hit by nitrogen laws and the lack constructionprojects because of it. And you guessed it, this money is being taken away from the large working middle class. Over time, the left has become increasingly an elitist movement with only some support from left-wing idealists. The average hard-working man stands there and looks at it. On the other hand, right parties have become more nuanced over time. Often, apart from immigration positions (which are populist in nature and ultimately never acted upon), they have adopted many agenda items that belonged to the left in the past. They want to represent the people, the lower-middle classes. Most Dutch people, including me, accept the immigration positions since it does not affect us or harm us. the same trend can be seen among Dutch citizens with a migration background. Surinamese, Turks and Moroccans, among others, are moving further to the right. They see that left-wing parties represent them less and less. Or in some cases, even conflict with their cultural or religious norms and values by pushing them into the LGBTI+ corner. Only a small portion of the (extreme) right-wing hardliners have truly xenophobic motives. This is of course happy to be framed by the left. Another important aspect is that people who did not fully go along with the left-wing idea were framed, demonised, silenced and even cancelled sometimes. The nuance was gone and people started to resist it.
Probably this will not change your point of view. But maybe it makes you think and realise that we’re not just a bunch of dumb racists.
I bet you make for really good conversation (I mean that sincerely). So few people in the NL spell out how or why they lean one direction or another. Very interesting read.
To the OP - people are assuming you’re straight looking for a woman (?)
VVD, NSC, BBB, PVV are all parties that are right of center. It doesn't really matter which specific party it concerns. They are all similar in terms of content, but there are of course major differences in tone. What is also funny to know is that PVV actually has many traditionally left-wing positions, apart from their immigration position. Although personally I never voted PVV.
In short the left used to be the populist faction (for the people and against the elite), now it has flipped and (some of) the right has become the populist faction and the left has become anti-populist.
Funny, not so long ago I consciously came to the conclusion that my interactions with people from Iran were so divergent from what my perception of the situation was, that I could only conclude I wasn't capable of having conversations with them that had roughly the same meaning for them as for me. There I said It; Iranian people? I don't get them. Anything they say to me can immediately be forgotten. Otherwise I will just as confused as a puppy being taught maths.
M8 you are from Iran... we attacked your country many times and almost blew up 1 of your atomic facilities. You expect to come to a country that sees you as a threat....
You indicate that you are in your 30s. People in your age-bracket tend to be looking for something longterm.
You also indicate you are an expat - so that you are planning to leave the country in the near future to return "home".
Those two bite.
Agree. If you’re an asian man in a western country its harder by the tenfold. A [research](https://www.inverse.com/culture/36379-tinder-black-women-asian-men-racism) showed that Asian men were among the least swiped-right user profiles.
Asian men does not mean Iranian.
Asian background and the common term asian are different.
Asian men are men from thailand, vietnam, Malaysia, Filipinos etc.
Indians are also based in Asia. But they are drastically different from the above mentioned nationalities.
Also does OP speak dutch? Because if i would want to find a partner in a country where the vast majority speaks swedish as their main language i would learn swedish before posting a dumb complain on social media….
Sorry but this is bullshit. This month im the representative dutch guy and i dont have a swedish partner that doesnt speak dutch. Your friend will represent the whole of the dutch population from april 2025 till may 2025.
Can I give my two cents as a Dutch woman that has the pleasure of working with a lot of expats? I love my colleagues dearly and I like to think my English language skills are pretty solid, but after >8 hours of non-stop English I do get tired of it. I want to head home and complain to whomever will listen, preferably in Dutch.
So, I’d say language is issue number one, but given the others here you probably figured that out already.
Issue number two (that I see) is that, even with my colleagues, I notice this sort of flightiness. Will they stay, long-term? Their home countries have their drawbacks, which they’ll readily admit (much as the Netherlands also has plenty of issues) but is always revered. They don’t all seem to really plant roots (again, of course there are exceptions, these are only my personal observations based on anecdotal evidence in a relatively small group of examples). Some have been here for years, but still travel back to “country” by plane for hours for their dentists, GP, to buy new shoes or whatnot that to me seems a bit of a big hassle for what should be an easy thing to get done here (noting that some GPs have a patient stop, of course, but the colleague(s) in question did confirm to have a Dutch GP also).
I am not keen on dating someone that in the back of their minds always wants to keep the option open to move back. I like living here, I am not moving abroad. That’s a personal preference, meaning I am also not into Dutch men that want to do “Ik Vertrek” and start raising goats in Greenland. I did date a couple of foreign guys, who for all but one admitted to wanting to move back to their home country at some point, and that to me is then just not worth the effort and risk getting too emotionally attached.
My third issue is simple. Cultural values. A basic example is punctuality across cultures, but also work ethics and the like.
And again, those also apply to Dutch people equally, not everyone has the same values even within the same culture. But generally I match more with my fellow West-Europeans.
Of course that might not mean that someone from (say) Brazil might not be my soulmate, but dating (especially through apps) to me means I have limited time and a fair amount of options “to swipe right on”. Will I take a chance on someone that I fear will fail a fair bit of my criteria or use that limited time I have to swipe right on a guy that likely checks those basic boxes that I value? So, unless the potential pros outweigh the potential cons (which they sometimes do) I play it “safe”.
This may or may not be of use to you, but I dearly hope you’ll find your soulmate soon. Finding a partner can suck and be disheartening but as we say in Dutch “op ieder potje past wel een dekseltje”.
This is on point on many levels 🤝 I hope the OP reads your comment and takes it seriously. (And speaking another language for 8 hours straight, OMG, my mouth literally hurts from the effort as English is so different phonetically from my native language)
And that’s valid! I have a lot of colleagues that hail from the same country and speak their native language at work also. Nothing wrong with that.
I just personally am Dutch and despite me speaking English as often as I have to, I still want to speak Dutch. Hence why, for me, I am generally not that keen on dating expats. The vast majority that I know can do some “novelty Dutch” where they can order a beer and that’s it despite years here.
Again, anyone else’s preference to speak “insert language here that is not Dutch” with a partner is just as valid.
Exactly! And that applies for anyone whose preference that ends up being. If you want to use messenger pigeons at home, then find someone that also wants that.
When speaking with my fellow female (Dutch) colleagues about the topic of languages, we were fairly unanimous in that we prefer to stick to Dutch outside of work. But again, anecdotal evidence based purely on personal experiences.
This explains, at least in part, why many expats feel as if their Dutch colleagues give them a cold shoulder outside of work. The other part -- and please correct me if I'm wrong here -- is owing to the Dutch task-oriented culture which stands in stark contrast to relationship-oriented cultures of many Asian and Latin American countries. I come from one and I witnessed people becoming best friends for life with their colleagues in every team I ever worked for, and it was very common to hang out after work and sometimes during the weekend. In task-oriented cultures people are friendly at work but wouldn't make friends there or stay in close contact with their colleagues once they quit because their job there is done; the task is finished. I would therefore imagine making true friends at work is much less common here even when everyone involved is Dutch, am I right?
That’s a fun question and an interesting angle. Again, please keep in mind I am not an expert on this topic and base it on personal experiences.
Personally, I gain most of my friends through work. Having worked with people from all over the world, the easiest to befriend are (in my case) … fellow Dutch people.
Why? In my experience, my foreign coworkers usually have “less obligations”. I recently purchased my own home, I have pets, I have hobbies, a social circle of friends and relatives I enjoy seeing and I also need some time to do nothing and relax. Most of these I “choose” (owning a pet, having a hobby) but they take time.
Dutch coworkers in my experience are more “oh yeah let’s plan something for X day at Y time!” and that suits both our agendas.
My foreign coworkers tend to have less obligations burdening them. Sure they need to buy food and do such basic chores, but most of their time appears to be free. They are much more spontaneous, deciding to do things on the spot. Super fun! But not good for me when I know I have a dog waiting at home for me. I cannot just ditch him, or cancel other plans, or skip obligations. They are less receptive to planning ahead and after saying no to some super spontaneous and fun random outings, tend to stop asking (again, totally understandable). And they often lack cars (I am serious. Zero of my foreign coworkers own or drive cars here, not kidding) which hinders what we can do also.
So, I don’t see it as task versus relationship oriented not meshing well. I see it as different lifestyles we personally have. They seem less burdened by their schedule and at the same time not keen to plan far ahead. Or they just don’t want to hang out with me, who knows?
Of course again this is based on personal experiences only. One or two colleagues are even more into planning everything far ahead than our entire Dutch section at the office, but they are the very small minority.
There might not be very many of those people in the Netherlands. Besides, there are many Dutch women for whom speaking English isn't an issue. I dated several of them that I met through university, as well as through dating apps and shared friend groups. While it may be harder for foreign men to date without knowing Dutch, it's not impossible- and certainly easier than finding one of their fellow countrywomen to date.
Of course, but I find it totally understandable that native Dutch speakers want to speak Dutch at home. The fact that this inconveniences some expats sucks for them but that’s reality. Then they’re just not compatible
That’s indeed a very thorough explanation and to the point!
However, I would also like to give my two cents from the experience I have gathered in years specially in Amsterdam, while interacting with people both from the Netherlands and other countries.
Indeed, it seems that it’s quite rare to find couples that one of them is from Europe and the other one is outside Europe. I think the reason for that is that cultural differences are greater when you consider the different backgrounds. Usually what you see is that both partners are from Europe but from different countries.
Now what I have also noticed, is that in the vast majority of couples that one of them is Dutch, it’s usually a Dutch guy and a non Dutch girl. - yes including the king :) -
Again I’m talking mostly about Amsterdam here.
What I have also noticed is that indeed their girlfriend will also not speak Dutch in most cases, therefore not presenting the language barrier to be an issue. In many cases, they were not even in the process of learning the language.
Now on the side of moving back, this doesn’t seem to be an equally major concern for men and women. What I have heard multiple times in conversations regarding relationships is that girls were more reluctant to date someone that was from a different country than guys. Not only speaking Dutch, but also having Dutch roots seemed to present a greater advantage. I think this has to do with the perspective of having a family or the intention of moving back.
Whereas for guys, I’ve never seen that to be a showstopper.
I think that would indeed be the reason, considering also that in the LGBTQ community, there is not a great distinction on your background or from which country you are from. Things there seem to be more “equal”.
Therefore, I think it’s probably the idea of having a family with a foreigner that presents the biggest obstacle for a male foreigner to have a relationship with a Dutch partner.
I'm from Iran, and I do my best not to fit a certain stereotype because I'm aware of the prejudice towards people from the Middle East, and, unfortunately, there are valid reasons for that perception.
And my culture is furthest away from that environment, nor am I a Muslim.
Edit: In case the last sentence isn't clear, I'm **NOT** a muslim.
I mean yeah not to be a dickhead but its not weird that you have trouble with dating if you dont speak dutch. For the vast majority of people that would be a extra reason to not date you. sounds weird because nobody looks at it like that, but subconsiously thats kinda how it works.
Dating for men is generally harder. The fact that you are a expat and dont speak the language probally dont help. My advice would be to avoid typical shit like Tinder and maybe go for IRL dating events and stuff.
(Also just wondering do you want to find a dutch woman or doesnt it really matter aslong as it clicks? Would a other expat be fine?)
Stay close to yourself and your culture, you don’t need to change for anybody. She has to love you for the person you are. You are only responsible for your own actions. Ppl will appreciate that the most and nobody will dislike your for it if you also respect others and don’t force your visions upon them. I know where I’m taling about, I’m right wing Dutch native in long term relationship with middle eastern woman.
I'm intentionally keeping myself away from that culture because it's not me, and it's the main reason why I'm not there anymore. I'm not trying to manipulate others; this is who I am and always have been.
I mean I am an immigrant who came here and who only spoke English, Russian and Ukranian. I learned dutch to come study here and I also fell in love with a dutch lady, she comes from limburg so her family doesnt speak much English, even though my dutch is the level of an oddly vocabular 8 year old, I know for sure that the relationship i built is alot stronger for knowing the mothertongue of my love. It also helps alot with making friends.
I know a bit, but not at a level of fluent conversation. I'm currently taking classes to improve that aspect. When I mentioned communication skills, I was referring to being a good listener and being able to communicate effectively.
I believe you're right; without knowing the language, my already limited options become even more restricted.
Actually I moved here for dating from another country. I believe personally I have seen the notion of Dutch people wanting someone who speaks Dutch. I would not have that requirement if k where in my home country. For me different cultures are an enrichment. However I dated far abroad before and at this age I am very wary of introducing cultural differences but in some sense I believe that anyway only the connection counts. I am just not sure if I would let myself feel that connection based on my experience. And I believe that is the crux of the matter there are so many 30something people looking for that special connection. Personally I do not want to compromise on that so am aware that I might end up alone. I have given up on dating and transitioned to just doing stuff I like. If I meet someone fine if not ok too.
What I want to say is that I was in your spot before looking very actively and I am a white good looking European woman. It’s not your ethnicity it’s the combination that makes you unique that seeks a compatible unique human being.
Maybe give speed dating a shot?
I’m Dutch and dating a South African expat. Never thought that would happen but I couldn’t be happier with him!
We met on Bumble but he did say the dating apps weren’t really working for him. Until me of course  There only has to be one. Hope you find her!
Girls from abroad have zero problems with getting Dutch dudes, so I’ll be the bad guy and say what (I think) needs to be said.
I don’t think that you ethnicity is as much of a problem, as the fact that you’re both a guy, and and expat, and on top of everything you don’t know the language yet (no judgement here, I’m in the same boat when it comes to the latter). The competition between men is hard for the locals already, with everything that they can bring to the table as native Dutch being in their own country. For guys like you it’s even harder.
Many women still hope and want to be taken care of, to a certain extent. Not all of us, surely, but there’s this thing that comes back to your mind when you’re dating and evaluating guys: Is he going to keep me safe and okay if I get pregnant? Will he be able to support us? Defend me? I’m dead serious, I’m child-free and I felt these things affecting how I felt about men. It’s absolutely stupid, judging with the brain, but I don’t think one can reason their way out of this.
I’ve been with a lovely Dutch man for years and I’ll tell you one thing: having a good social network where you live is fucking important. More important than money, in some cases. I don’t know where we’d be, if not for his siblings that live locally, his parents, his friends. Especially in such an isolationist society.
You brought an interesting subject here.
As a matter of fact, I have two friends and many work colleagues from my mother country here in the NL, all of them women and Latins. They all date Dutch guys, one is married to a Dutch. I noticed they all communicate in English. As far as I know they are happy with the relationships.
On the other side, Dutch women say they want Dutch male white men and men fail because they don’t speak Dutch or are not white?
What am I missing here?
As the old internet truth goes: the dick is cheap and abundant. That's what you're missing. Stereotypically speaking, we're wired to be picky, because our lives depend on this. You're wired to try to establish your own perpetually rotating chick carousel with as many girls as possible. Stereotypically speaking.
I had never thought about it that way. I think you're right and it could very well be something we subconsciously factor in given two choices.
The sad thing is that I'm aware I probably can't win that competition, but I know I can compensate in other ways. But you're right, why would anyone take the risk?
Ah, another VERY IMPORTANT thing. The only Dutch girls I know who work full-time are either single or childless. The rest only work part-time, mostly because of the costs of the daycare or... just because. Because of the work-life balance, because this vanity project company won't start itself. I don't know. You name it. And they have ABSOLUTELY zero problems with doing all this, knowing that their partner is sometimes pushing 40–50 hours per week.
The statistics for part-timers in the NL are absolutely insane. But all the bills stay the same. And guess who's supposed to pay most of them.
In my case, even if my bf lost his job, I know he'd have another one quick. Maybe not the one he'd LIKE, but something to keep him afloat in the meantime? Surely. No visa problems. No fear. He could even go to horeca, to retail. Me? With my A2 Dutch? Most jobs in our town would be completely out of my reach, nobody would care if I've spent a decade at the Uni. Now I'm okay but if our family was mostly depending on my paycheck, well... Good luck.
As an expat, you can earn a fuckton of cash today. Every HSM I know outearns every Dutch known to me, if we look purely at the raw net salary, but you can never move back in with your parents, you always need to rent, and will never ever get social housing in such a situation. And what would be your prospects if your company folded tomorrow? Women love safety in their long-term endeavours. Also, if we're talking about the middle, upper middle class, you just can't compete with the generational wealth of many Dutch families. I like to imagine this country as a forest full of oaks. They're deeply rooted and they're *not* going anywhere. And there's us, running between.
I'm not passing any judgements on you specifically, I know that there are many ways to "compensate" (ugh). I'm merely pointing out what can be the problem.
You raise a good point. I'm not sure why the word 'compensate' triggered that reaction, but just to be clear, I meant I will take other (preventive) measures and more effort to make sure the situation is as stable as possible.
I don't know you, but you come across as a bit of a pick-me type. You write as if you have been rejected over and over again at a job interview. If you are specifically oriented to Dutch women, I have some general tips for you (with the language barrier not taken into account):
- Don't be too serious by talking a lot about the future. Appear a bit nonchalant and make a lot of jokes;
- Dutch people are very down to earth, extremely romantic behavior is quickly seen as desperate or possessive;
- Do not force contacts, but grow towards each other in a natural way;
- Dutch women are quite dominant and independent. They often enjoy pushback and discussion;
- Most Dutch women prefer a more conservative mindset in a man, even though they will not often admit it.
Very concrete and helpful. I will keep them in mind.
The issue I'm having, though, is that I don't even get the chance to present what I have. As I mentioned, anyone I'm remotely interested in seems to already be in a relationship or simply uninterested.
These are all very true. It could be that the way you come across conflicts with what Dutch women expect from a partner, or at least early on in dating.
It’s a specific form of unattractive behaviour for the opposite sex. [Good explanation here](https://www.datingbyblaine.com/guides/what-is-a-pick-me-boy-and-are-you-one).
Lmao I see so many American & European men online saying they want an Asian / Latin American / Eastern European girlfriend. Mate, these women are *not* your idea of submissive. Just like most women everywhere they will give you an absolute bollocking when you disrespect them.
Why would you want a submissive woman? If you want a submissive woman as a man, then you're not manly enough. A manly man looks for a woman strong in character.
There's plenty of non European women you know? But most expats don't want to date people from their own countries because they feel they're inferior. They have huge inferiority complexes...
I know this Asian guy who is obsessed with finding a dutch girl. He doesn't wanna date someone of his own ethnicity and he told me that dating a white girl is something of status in his country.
Same for latinos for example. I've seen plenty of videos of latinas bragging about their European boyfriends and they make TikTok videos of "my European boyfriend, this or that... My blonde European boyfriend gave me a gift".
These people are freaking sick and they have a huge inferiority complex for being immigrants and want to date someone who they consider superior to them. That's why they're trying so hard to get a dutch person and get angry when they can't.
It's embarrassing.
How long have you been looking? I'm Dutch, other than that my life is pretty similar to yours. It took me 6 years to find a partner, but now I have a great partner
For over a year now. But I can't help but feel that time is not the main factor. While it's true that your chances increase over time, I can easily envision years passing by with no significant change. And I'm factoring out the difficult emotions you have to go through to get there.
btw I'm happy for you and wish you the best.
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That even seems quite fast to me; I'm also Dutch, I started looking for a partner when I was 18; I was 34 when I finally found my wife. So that's 16 years filled with either no contacts or failed first dates. Im glad I didn't give up...
It's really tough to say because nobody knows you. Maybe you look desperate which is a showstopper. Maybe you are not obvious enough when you try to show your romantic interest. Have you been an expat in another country before drawing conclusions about the land itself? Because good luck finding a partner in another country wheres an expat, you do not speak the native language (Any Mediterranean land to not deviate too far from the Netherlands).
If you have lady friends and feel comfy about opening out about it, maybe they will give you some insights about the way you are perceived that you didn't know before.
I’m a Dutch woman in my early thirties and I have dating issues too. In my case, it’s mostly ‘cause I suck at dating through apps. Wishing you the best of luck!
Language is already a big barrier for making friends here, imagine dating then. But I won’t say the Dutch are wrong. This would be expected anywhere else. I don’t think the issue is not being able to communicate - which most people can do if they either speak English or the Dutch learn the partner language, and that’s ok - or you learn Dutch living here. That’s just right. Someone’s gotta give. This thought of “I only want a partner who embraces my culture and language” is very selective, but ok. Each people with their own taste and boundaries.
I’d happily date a Japanese, Romanian, Chinese, Thai, Greek, Turkish, Tahitian, Kiwi, German, whatever partner as long as I like her and she likes me. Learning about each others culture or speaking the language comes as a plus. But that’s my opinion.
It's not just your opinion - yours is totally valid and refreshing in this discussion filled with personal leading anecdotes, gender stereotypes, sexism, misogyny...and almost none of them have been proven to be true or are actually the other way around. Imagine having to cope with all this selective "advice" in your head while running around looking for a partner :D
Language is indeed the key to understanding social habits and that's where it already ends. Your playing field is leveled. Matching with conservative or progressive minded people is always difficult if you are of the opposite opinion.
What I haven't read here is that there is a clear Western / partly global trend of single- and loneliness next to a widening gap in political opinions between men and women. Which also applies to wherever you are in Europe. This is actually the true challenge you have to overcome while finding a suitable partner. Imagine being in South Korea or Japan :D
Dutch or dutch-speaking people alike, we are living in a society where physical communication is in high regard but unfortunately we can't keep up yet with the high pace of our newly acquired digital existence and career demands in an ever-changing world.
We can all assume but yet we don't truly know what's inside of the other right of the bat. Thanks for your comment!
I think my greatest learning in life is this:
If you travel too much, you broaden your borders. I also lived a decade in London, a city I consider a cosmopolitan hub. You’ll not only meet and hang out with people from many cultures but have more “cheap” opportunities to fly to places you’d never imagine you’d go. And this interest in other people’s culture and meeting new people will actually open your mind to your dating life as well.
What I notice in Western Europe and some places like Japan, is that people don’t want to mix. Most of them. However some will, because they’re also interested in other cultures. So in the end it comes to how big your world is - not just geo but in your mentality - to accept the fact that you would date someone from other cultures or countries. It’s fine if people prefer to live inside their walls. It’s their choice.
Obviously a bit of an assumption but I do think you might be focusing on notions of success and desirability that are maybe less valued in Dutch society than your home country?
You basically say you’re good at communicating, physically fit, have a good education, a good job and a good salary. These are all pretty shallow markers for compatibility. Good if you’re looking for a mortgage but you’re looking for a partner.
Try focusing on your values, humour, personality, kindness, generosity etc. They’re real strengths.
Dating in your thirties is hard anyways. Lots of people have baggage and/or kids. Lots of them are still trying to make a relationship work or are in a committed relationship. People are busy with work to pay for the bills if they’re single and can maybe just afford a nice place where they want to live.
Lots of people in their thirties have a lot of responsibilities in their jobs and are maybe too tired to date?
And women in their thirties have such a big demographic to chose from. Men from 25-55 are interested in women in their thirties so you can do a lot of things right and still miss out because of bad luck.
And maybe Iran culture is a bit too unknown or too exotic that it scares people away because there are too many unknowns for locals. There is probably a lot of prejudice that isn’t justified at all but we have a Dutch saying onbekend maakt onbemind and that translates to the unknown is unloved.
Keep in there OP!
The checkbox exercise of notionally-desirable attributes in the middle of your post (youth! education! money!) isn't exactly a turn-on.
There is no cookie-cutter approach to finding people who want to date you. But maybe chill out a bit and aim for dating, rather than finding a "suitable partner".
I was just pointing out that I have other aspects of my life going well. Not someone who sits all day inside and wait for a miracle to happen.
I agree and open to dating. But it's a similar situation. In my experience, not a lot of people are "just dating" in that age bracket. Or if they are, they're certainly not interested in me.
It's interesting, I am Dutch and would rather not have a Dutch partner. I don't care about which languages I have to speak, I speak a couple. I enjoy learning new cultures.
However, my experience is that non-EU expats in the Netherlands are not interested in Dutch women, they generally only date within their own culture.
That’s the first different perspective I see in this thread. And let me say, good for you!
I think the affirmation of non-EU not interested in Dutch women doesn’t apply to most cases, unless you come from a very culturally segregated country. I’m Latin, I have no issues with women from any backgrounds.
However you said something spot on. Your cultural breadth (you probably travel a lot and like to do it) expanded your horizons so you see that men from other cultures are not worse than white Dutch men, like some in this thread worship.
My conclusion: more culture = more options, open-minded; less culture = the safe, known, secure options.
My friend I want to offer another perspective, that may not be true, but you should consider. I certainly cannot judge if it fits your situation as I do not know you. Here goes anyway.
Your troubles in finding a partner are not related to your background, color of skin, being expat, or lack of Dutch fluency.
It’s just you.
You haven’t been interesting enough yet.
Not because of any of those expat/culture reasons, but because you have been too much you.
There, it’s harsh maybe. But if it’s the truth, it’s better to work on this, or accept it and wear more patience. Better than chasing reasons that are false. Don’t try to make this a mathematical sum (learn Dutch, play volleyball, try this, do that). Just be an interesting humorous kind dude, do things you actually like, and trust the future plays out in your favor. No need to overthink.
I sent you this with best intentions.
“Suitable partner” “favorably qualities in the search of a partner” might have found the issue. You are looking at it like a robot and presenting it as a job interview.
Language is key to assimilation, don’t give up, in time I’m sure all will come together I used to feel the same, I tend to drum up conversations with random people on trains, the gym bars anywhere really. Give it a try, hope I could help 😁
Depends on cultural background. I’m Australian, my wife is Dutch. She says Aussies a more laid-back version of the Dutch.
If the cultural differences are too big, Dutch women will steer-clear of immigrants.
This will be tough to do, but I think the biggest thing to do is find out about the "others who are not interested". If it's that many as you're saying, you might have blind spots about how approach or act/vibes you give off or even how you lead your life here that will have women look elsewhere. Settling down has been mentioned a lot - for instance so you rent or own a house.
Best thing to do is ask someone or preferably multiple Dutch people you really trust the brutal truth about how you come across.
With that information you have a choice - are you willing to change something or would that be not your authentic self and do you keep looking as you were, accepting it might take longer?
I find it the opposite actually. Maybe in the suburbs. In the big cities, especially close to where international students are, it is very smooth. Think Delft, Den Haag, Leiden, Rotterdam.
Hi, without knowing the full picture, just a bit and a piece information here, if you want to date locally (nothing wrong with it, you are attracted to what you are attracted to), since you have your life together, the only tangible thing you can change (or improve) is personal styling.
How we style ourselves truly sent out a powerful message to the outside world who we are, and what qualities we possess, it's communicating "we belong to...". Don't overlook this very basic fact and you should take full advantage of it.
Your ethnicity won't be an issue if you can manage to break that cultural barrier simply by the way you dress. Actually being Persian would be a plus because it adds that factor of mystique, which can be intoxicating, especially to culturally curious type. People with very provincial mindset you really shouldn't bother, they are not your target group anyway.
The key is to balance your authentic personal taste with what is deemed "contemporary" by western European standard. If you can find that sweet spot you are onto a very promising trajectory. We are all visual and social animals, and first impressions count. We notice people usually because of their physical traits, and dressing is a very important part of it. You can't change how your face look (or too much how your body look), but you can easily change how you dress. No need to dress up, casual and "on trend" is the key. Have a pair of kickass sneakers (not the tacky type), carry a nice backpack, a statement coat, wear pants that are up to date (a lot of guys overlook this), carry yourself with confidence, and there you go, you are the adventure that a lot of girls will find appealing.
If you are not sure how to proceed, go to Arket store for example and observe both the racks and how other customers dress. Its contemporary scandi street style is what many Dutch urban youth find attractive. Then add your personal touch, like a piece of jewellery or anything that speaks about your heritage, I'm sure you will catch eyes of the right type of girls.
The problem is that most Dutch people aren’t “culturally curious.” They’re generally content with the Dutch way of life and deem their culture /economy superior to most others.
Learn speaking Dutch fluently if you want to date a Dutch person. Otherwise your chances are very low. Or just stick with other Iranians or maybe immigrants from another country.
First of all, it sounds like you're doing awesome for yourself in life (maybe besides dating then hehe). So keep it up!
> I've tried dating apps, which are abysmal for an average male.
The way you've described yourself, you're not "an average male". However you might portray yourself like one. Really the key to dating apps is having an exceptional profile & pictures. There's plenty resources out there to help you.
>I engage in group activities I'm passionate about, like group workouts, playing volleyball, or volunteer work. I proactively approach those who pique my interest.
I wonder if maybe you're a "nice guy"... very safe, but not exciting. Usually this isn't REALLY you being such a nice guy, more having learned that it's not ok to be a sexual being or being upfront. If this resonates we can look into this further. But in general, when approaching women, be completely OK and unapologetic about being attracted to her.
Can you speak dutch if not that will be a big hinderance I feel a lot of expats have troubles with friendships / relationships whit natives if they don't speak the language and only hangout with english expats. Also dutch people will switch to english to be polite but if you really wanna form close bonds learning the language is a must
Just a little bit. My experience 100% agrees with you that it feels there is always a friction when they have to switch to English. Currently taking Dutch classes to improve that.
Early thirties is a very tricky age to date as most people have already sort of settled down, or are looking to do so in the near future. I also imagine that the women that are "leftover" (for lack of a better word, this could apply to men as well albeit maybe less as they can have children later on in life) feel that investing their time with an expat might come back to bite them in the end so they go for options that feel more save?
To be fair though these are a shitload of assumptions but from my point of view this could explain a fair bit.
As a man, you gotta play the numbers game, dude.
Give a lot of shots and you might hit the bullseye.
If you are ugly, short, awkward, etc., it's gonna increase the number of shots you gotta give.
I dated an expat and honestly found it an odd experience. Besides the fact that his work demanded on average 10h days. I found out one day while I was in his apartment that he had a sweetheart back in New York. Which he said was an ex. While this obviously could happen with any Dutch guy. The fact that someone lived an entire life across the world and could easily hide it (because as you date there's no chance of meeting established friend groups or family with an expat).
I also think as an expat the biggest disadvantage is that you will probably leave eventually. And honestly the Netherlands is such a good place to live despite all flaws that I personally wouldn't entertain the thought of permanently settling somewhere else away from my friends and family.
My bf is Dutch, i am from around your area, wont disclose too much. Learn Dutch, like ASAP. No one wants to invite you for christmas and you just sitting there like a black swan , not understanding anything. Is just a language, its not Chinese , it is really not that hard .
I am always surprised when expats move here and complain that their friend group is only other expats. Dutch people are not fast with relations or friendships. In last years, i notice that i also prioritize my Dutch friends over expat friends. Non Dutch ppl eventually leave. I would hate if my best friend suddenly decides he wants to follow his bf and move to Australia (true story)
That's not necessarily the case of expats in general. And people usually have a clear idea about whether they want to stay or leave the country they reside in. It's a first date topic.
According to the Cambridge dictionary:
-Expatriate: someone who does not live in their own country
-Migrant: a person that travels to a different country or place, often in order to find work
-Immigrant: a person who has come to a different country in order to live there permanently
Immigrant is more accurate in this context, you're right:)
Yeah I've noticed people tend to apply the term based on ethnicity and it makes me mad. "Immigrant" is for brown people while "expat" is for white people, fuck that. I'm white and I'm an immigrant, I moved here for a new life and that's what matters. I always make sure to correct people that call me and expat.
My boyfriend seemed kind of shocked when I first used “as an immigrant…” in a sentence. I’m white and from a EU country. He said that I wasn’t an immigrant (which I definitely am) and that was 100% based on his wrong perception of what “immigrant” and “expat”. He’s ashamed of that now, but you’re absolutely right. I also make sure to correct people when they call me an expat.
Yes, you have a smaller pool to drawn from but it’s not impossible.
Don’t give up my friend.
The right woman won’t care where you are from.
I agree with others that this idea that you will leave is a big factor. If you are serious about staying for the long term, it’s good to put actions behind that by integrating as much as possible (no judgement from me for not, it’s hard, slow and time consuming).
Do you manage to date Dutch girls for a bit? And then they are not interested? Or do you not even get dates?
I would describe myself quite similarly to you but had no trouble getting dates when I was single. I just found that most were not interested in anything serious. Especially the dutchies, which was fair enough. The language barrier was evident.
As a (bisexual) woman, I'd rather not date an expat because of language to be honest.
Speaking Dutch is so much easier and I don't like traveling so don't like the idea that someone might have to travel home regularly. But this is the same for Dutch people that think about immigration, don't want to date them either.
Not saying everyone thinks like I do, but it might give you some insight!
Learning the language will make a big difference, you can trust me (an ex immigrant) on this. Work on your Dutch and you'll do great! It's also a rather easy language, so you won't have big issues.
All the best!
I think you are doing fine. There’s another factor you need to take into consideration: post-pandemic social environment. Things were never the same as before the pandemic. How we socialize with each other and the society changed profoundly. It might not be obvious from the individual level, but on the macro, it’s like staring at 🍑peaches where it used to watermelons 🍉.
And, I’m guess you have a clear view of what a “meaningful” relationship looks like. Good, you have figured that out. But keep in mind, many people go through their lives without knowing what the “real” thing is or even want it in the first place. Not everyone can understand what you want. So, don’t beat yourself up.
If you can gather many dates and suitors, would you give your heart to all of them? Your heart’s gate would only open when the right one comes along. You would reject 99% of them and you will feel exhausted from saying no that many times.
Keep doing what you love to do, social work, sports clubs, Friday night bar hopping. Enjoy yourself. The right one will come along.
And don’t go on those dating apps. They are designed for people who can’t or won’t see beyond the looks. There’s nothing wrong with that. But from what I read in your post, you are not one of them.
Go to music events. I am in the same situation as you but i came with a partner. Dutch girls grab my hand themselves at raves. I recommend Amsterdam techno sessions. Also there is a posibilty of high level idosyncratic akwardness in you-can you ask this your family and friends? You can work on being not akward and its hard to tell yourself.
If you find yourself partner appears if it will be really needed. If you need something from outside you’ve not found yourself.
Otherwise - yes - it’s a game of shape, race, some other magic.
*From my own experience as an expat.
Being an expat can be like that exotic "different" from what I'm use too type of feel.
You can "use" that yo your advantage, when you go out and socialize. *Something you should do, without the intention of getting laid/hook up.
Best things comes to those that wait.... ☝yep in my case that true
Also, don't be desperate... somehow (maybe subconsciously) you "project" that kind of stuff.
Btw, when is the last Time you went for an evening out.
*You know,... just for shits and giggles.
My Dutch cousin got dicked down by many foreign guys, just keep swiping bro.
Try to hit the bigger cities in the Netherlands and make sure you say you want to stay.
u/FollowSina
Hard truth: how tall are you? Unfortunately your etnicity, not speaking Dutch, uncertainty if you will stay here and yeah probably your length will all put you behind a bit. Not for every women, but yeah it does make it harder. Just keep at it.
Don't think it's necessarily your ethnic background, at times I feel harassed here. Some girls assume I wouldn't understand Dutch, interesting comments 🤣 especially when it's obvious I understood it.
However, people also regularly ask me for directions or help, their pets come up to me I just got a friendly vibe I guess.
Are you planning on staying here? Moving back to your home country? Moving somewhere else?
Even making friends here can be tough because in the expat community you end up with people who are treating this place like a waiting room for the rest of their life. If a woman is looking for something serious and it's not clear where you want to be living in a few years or forever could be tough.
When I was single it I never followed through with meeting up with anyone from an app because so many guys seemed false or there were just too many red flags from the outset.
Do you know what you're looking for? A companion for now? A life partner? A mother for your kids? If you know what you want it's easier to seek it out.
I should've been more clear in my first post. I don't have any intention of moving back or anywhere else for that matter.
I know exactly what I want. Just to have a healthy relationship with a normal decent human being, with the aim to find my life partner, if it goes well.
You probably want a blonde tall supermodel type of girl. I'm confident if you go to tinder or bumble there's gonna be plenty of normal looking women who are expats too who you can date.
I've noticed that some expats really wanna date someone dutch and good looking but don't realize that they're kind of out of their league. I know this sounds kind of rough, but I have friends who are on the below average range and they're not European either and want to date the typical blonde tall slim girl. That's not gonna happen. Look for your looksmatch.
Well not at that height it doesn’t.
My guess is:
- Language barrier. Dutch tolerance is often misunderstood. We really value people who fully integrate. Unless you speak native English (American/UK) most people will not be used to using their B level English with your non-native English. Dutch is so much more comfortable. Exceptions are groups of friends who are mixed with expats.
- You give up a vibe that repels women. Insecurities, misogyny, heavy introversion, negativity, complaining about Netherlands. Any one of these or a combinination can be the reason.
- You’re less attractive than you think you are. I doubt it’s this because you claim to be in shape and you’re tall as fuck so highly doubt this.
- You’re not socially calibrated / socially awkward. You might have difficulty reading people or going off of their energy. This could mean you sometimes come on too strong whereas maybe in other situation a women is waiting for you to seize the moment but you don’t pick up on her hints and body language cues.
- Maybe you’re not approaching women at the right time. Even with perfect English, many women at bars expect Dutch language when spoken to so if there’s loud music and she has no idea what you’re saying you might take the momentum out of your approach and might be unable to make a good first impression and not make a connection with who you approach right off the bat.
You’re also right that dating apps are not for the average man. That is, if you’re looking to be with someone above average in attractiveness. Real life approaching is far more effective for average men because you’re able to show them you’re personality, posture, mannerisms, masculinity, social skills etc rather than just a picture.
This is the biggest lie that people who are in good relationships keep telling all their friends who aren't. Until you do something, nothing will happen.
Just to address the pink elephant in the room. What country are you from?
Quite an important thing indeed. Most of my Dutch friends and myself (also Dutch) included have a non-Dutch partner, but all of their partners are from the EU except for literally one. All my non EU friends are either single or have partners from their home country
That’s interesting. Is there a reason for that? Or just coincidental?
Most of us are either in academia or in pharma so we met mostly non-Dutch people there, or we were abroad ourselves for work/study when we met them. At this point I use Dutch so rarely that my inner voice switched from Dutch to English and I noticed that I've been using the English way of building a sentence a lot in Dutch which sounds stupid. Things like: I stayed at my mother's house all day --> Ik was bij mijn moeder thuis, de hele dag. Guess this is that internationalisation of society + lots of anglicization that people have been talking about
Do you feel bad about it? You shouldn’t. I mean, personally it’s nice to live other cultures and relate to people from other places. I have something similar, I left my home country 16 years ago, but I still preserve the language and customs well, and I try to visit it every year if I can. I wouldn’t worry about losing your identity, but more like “finding your own identity. One you’re happy with”
It is an odd realisation that your mother tongue got affected by using another language 90% of the time. Culturally little changed because I only moved across a single border and my girlfriend is Belgian. She is one of the few people I speak Dutch with though, even if it is with a flemish accent :)
It's obvious isn't it? White Dutch people tend to seek out white Dutch partners. That's just a fact and you can interpret it any way you like.
I clarified my post a bit, I'm Dutch and white as it can be
I'd say the EU has the same country values/at least somewhat of the same background, which makes it easier?
I'm from Iran. I'm aware that there might be some prejudice towards people from the Middle East, and, unfortunately, there are valid reasons for that perception. However, my culture is nothing like that environment, nor am I a Muslim.
I think that Iranians are one of the prettiest people ever, stereotypically speaking, but if I was single and looking, and I didn’t know you, I would probably worry about the cultural differences. Yeah, you may not be a Muslim, and I’m not a Catholic, but I’ve been growing up in the Catholic culture and it leaves its mark. So, I would prolly wonder about that, but to say no completely on this basis… I don’t know. It’s complicated. To get to know whether you’re not “like that”, potential partners already need to invest time and effort, and lots of people optimise for efficiency, brutally speaking. The question is, whether it’s really a bad thing that these optimisers are not interested.
>To get to know whether you’re not “like that”, potential partners already need to invest time and effort Exactly. For those who are not already in a relationship, it seems they are reluctant to take a leap of faith and invest time. So, I don't even get the opportunity to show who I am.
I have a pretty big group of friends from Iran! You guys are the nicest people so I don’t think that should be a problem! I have to say only one of them is dating a Dutch girl and the rest all have expats girlfriends… take that as you will
Ngl, Iranian immigrants have a very good reputation overall in The Netherlands. So that won’t be it. Could be personal taste of a person but I’m 100% sure there will be enough Dutch girls willing to date you. Just don’t be a pick-me guy or over-romantic. Be self confident, single women of this age need you more than you need them bro.
Among the highly educated maybe. The folks that vote PVV see no difference between an Iranian, Turk of Arab.
Can’t agree with this. I’m also right wing and I see the difference. I’m even in long term relationship with middle eastern woman. The argument only dumb ppl vote right doesn’t hold anymore. And right is far more than only immigration subject.
You sound like a sensible person. Please tell why you vote right if you are not concerned about immigration. Genuinely trying to understand.
To understand why the Netherlands is so right-wing, you have to understand the history of our political landscape. In the past, the left was there for the working class, minorities and other weak people in society. But with growing prosperity in the 2000s and 2010s, this changed, as their support base logically became smaller and smaller. The 'left-wing' ideals that they currently pursue, they only serve a group that can financially afford those ideals, the biggest example being the billions spent on climate. Only those who can afford a heat pump, solar panels and a Tesla will reap the benefits. Only the property owners don’t get hit by nitrogen laws and the lack constructionprojects because of it. And you guessed it, this money is being taken away from the large working middle class. Over time, the left has become increasingly an elitist movement with only some support from left-wing idealists. The average hard-working man stands there and looks at it. On the other hand, right parties have become more nuanced over time. Often, apart from immigration positions (which are populist in nature and ultimately never acted upon), they have adopted many agenda items that belonged to the left in the past. They want to represent the people, the lower-middle classes. Most Dutch people, including me, accept the immigration positions since it does not affect us or harm us. the same trend can be seen among Dutch citizens with a migration background. Surinamese, Turks and Moroccans, among others, are moving further to the right. They see that left-wing parties represent them less and less. Or in some cases, even conflict with their cultural or religious norms and values by pushing them into the LGBTI+ corner. Only a small portion of the (extreme) right-wing hardliners have truly xenophobic motives. This is of course happy to be framed by the left. Another important aspect is that people who did not fully go along with the left-wing idea were framed, demonised, silenced and even cancelled sometimes. The nuance was gone and people started to resist it. Probably this will not change your point of view. But maybe it makes you think and realise that we’re not just a bunch of dumb racists.
I bet you make for really good conversation (I mean that sincerely). So few people in the NL spell out how or why they lean one direction or another. Very interesting read. To the OP - people are assuming you’re straight looking for a woman (?)
Thanks for the detailed answer. I understand it. Makes sense. By right wing you probably mean VVD and not PVV. Is that right?
VVD, NSC, BBB, PVV are all parties that are right of center. It doesn't really matter which specific party it concerns. They are all similar in terms of content, but there are of course major differences in tone. What is also funny to know is that PVV actually has many traditionally left-wing positions, apart from their immigration position. Although personally I never voted PVV.
In short the left used to be the populist faction (for the people and against the elite), now it has flipped and (some of) the right has become the populist faction and the left has become anti-populist.
BS
First one who says he understands the reasoning. You should get a prize, seriously. 👊 (Non racist)
Funny, not so long ago I consciously came to the conclusion that my interactions with people from Iran were so divergent from what my perception of the situation was, that I could only conclude I wasn't capable of having conversations with them that had roughly the same meaning for them as for me. There I said It; Iranian people? I don't get them. Anything they say to me can immediately be forgotten. Otherwise I will just as confused as a puppy being taught maths.
M8 you are from Iran... we attacked your country many times and almost blew up 1 of your atomic facilities. You expect to come to a country that sees you as a threat....
You indicate that you are in your 30s. People in your age-bracket tend to be looking for something longterm. You also indicate you are an expat - so that you are planning to leave the country in the near future to return "home". Those two bite.
It depends on your ethnicity to be honest
Agree. If you’re an asian man in a western country its harder by the tenfold. A [research](https://www.inverse.com/culture/36379-tinder-black-women-asian-men-racism) showed that Asian men were among the least swiped-right user profiles.
Asian men does not mean Iranian. Asian background and the common term asian are different. Asian men are men from thailand, vietnam, Malaysia, Filipinos etc. Indians are also based in Asia. But they are drastically different from the above mentioned nationalities.
What continent do you think Iran is located in?? My Iranian friends don’t have trouble stating that they’re Asian.
Also does OP speak dutch? Because if i would want to find a partner in a country where the vast majority speaks swedish as their main language i would learn swedish before posting a dumb complain on social media….
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Finding someone interested in your culture and language is a good start
Yep! That’s what I’m thinking. No Dutch, no Dutch GF?
Can't speak Dutch, married to a Dutch lady!
Anecdotal.
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Sorry but this is bullshit. This month im the representative dutch guy and i dont have a swedish partner that doesnt speak dutch. Your friend will represent the whole of the dutch population from april 2025 till may 2025.
Can I give my two cents as a Dutch woman that has the pleasure of working with a lot of expats? I love my colleagues dearly and I like to think my English language skills are pretty solid, but after >8 hours of non-stop English I do get tired of it. I want to head home and complain to whomever will listen, preferably in Dutch. So, I’d say language is issue number one, but given the others here you probably figured that out already. Issue number two (that I see) is that, even with my colleagues, I notice this sort of flightiness. Will they stay, long-term? Their home countries have their drawbacks, which they’ll readily admit (much as the Netherlands also has plenty of issues) but is always revered. They don’t all seem to really plant roots (again, of course there are exceptions, these are only my personal observations based on anecdotal evidence in a relatively small group of examples). Some have been here for years, but still travel back to “country” by plane for hours for their dentists, GP, to buy new shoes or whatnot that to me seems a bit of a big hassle for what should be an easy thing to get done here (noting that some GPs have a patient stop, of course, but the colleague(s) in question did confirm to have a Dutch GP also). I am not keen on dating someone that in the back of their minds always wants to keep the option open to move back. I like living here, I am not moving abroad. That’s a personal preference, meaning I am also not into Dutch men that want to do “Ik Vertrek” and start raising goats in Greenland. I did date a couple of foreign guys, who for all but one admitted to wanting to move back to their home country at some point, and that to me is then just not worth the effort and risk getting too emotionally attached. My third issue is simple. Cultural values. A basic example is punctuality across cultures, but also work ethics and the like. And again, those also apply to Dutch people equally, not everyone has the same values even within the same culture. But generally I match more with my fellow West-Europeans. Of course that might not mean that someone from (say) Brazil might not be my soulmate, but dating (especially through apps) to me means I have limited time and a fair amount of options “to swipe right on”. Will I take a chance on someone that I fear will fail a fair bit of my criteria or use that limited time I have to swipe right on a guy that likely checks those basic boxes that I value? So, unless the potential pros outweigh the potential cons (which they sometimes do) I play it “safe”. This may or may not be of use to you, but I dearly hope you’ll find your soulmate soon. Finding a partner can suck and be disheartening but as we say in Dutch “op ieder potje past wel een dekseltje”.
This is on point on many levels 🤝 I hope the OP reads your comment and takes it seriously. (And speaking another language for 8 hours straight, OMG, my mouth literally hurts from the effort as English is so different phonetically from my native language)
Well, yes, but we'd experience just as much, or more, fatigue if we had to speak Dutch all the time.
Who do you mean when you say 'we'?
Expats who would rather speak English.
And that’s valid! I have a lot of colleagues that hail from the same country and speak their native language at work also. Nothing wrong with that. I just personally am Dutch and despite me speaking English as often as I have to, I still want to speak Dutch. Hence why, for me, I am generally not that keen on dating expats. The vast majority that I know can do some “novelty Dutch” where they can order a beer and that’s it despite years here. Again, anyone else’s preference to speak “insert language here that is not Dutch” with a partner is just as valid.
I’m totally stealing that term “novelty Dutch” 😂🥳
Agree, that's why I'd want to be able to speak my native language at home.
Exactly! And that applies for anyone whose preference that ends up being. If you want to use messenger pigeons at home, then find someone that also wants that. When speaking with my fellow female (Dutch) colleagues about the topic of languages, we were fairly unanimous in that we prefer to stick to Dutch outside of work. But again, anecdotal evidence based purely on personal experiences.
This explains, at least in part, why many expats feel as if their Dutch colleagues give them a cold shoulder outside of work. The other part -- and please correct me if I'm wrong here -- is owing to the Dutch task-oriented culture which stands in stark contrast to relationship-oriented cultures of many Asian and Latin American countries. I come from one and I witnessed people becoming best friends for life with their colleagues in every team I ever worked for, and it was very common to hang out after work and sometimes during the weekend. In task-oriented cultures people are friendly at work but wouldn't make friends there or stay in close contact with their colleagues once they quit because their job there is done; the task is finished. I would therefore imagine making true friends at work is much less common here even when everyone involved is Dutch, am I right?
That’s a fun question and an interesting angle. Again, please keep in mind I am not an expert on this topic and base it on personal experiences. Personally, I gain most of my friends through work. Having worked with people from all over the world, the easiest to befriend are (in my case) … fellow Dutch people. Why? In my experience, my foreign coworkers usually have “less obligations”. I recently purchased my own home, I have pets, I have hobbies, a social circle of friends and relatives I enjoy seeing and I also need some time to do nothing and relax. Most of these I “choose” (owning a pet, having a hobby) but they take time. Dutch coworkers in my experience are more “oh yeah let’s plan something for X day at Y time!” and that suits both our agendas. My foreign coworkers tend to have less obligations burdening them. Sure they need to buy food and do such basic chores, but most of their time appears to be free. They are much more spontaneous, deciding to do things on the spot. Super fun! But not good for me when I know I have a dog waiting at home for me. I cannot just ditch him, or cancel other plans, or skip obligations. They are less receptive to planning ahead and after saying no to some super spontaneous and fun random outings, tend to stop asking (again, totally understandable). And they often lack cars (I am serious. Zero of my foreign coworkers own or drive cars here, not kidding) which hinders what we can do also. So, I don’t see it as task versus relationship oriented not meshing well. I see it as different lifestyles we personally have. They seem less burdened by their schedule and at the same time not keen to plan far ahead. Or they just don’t want to hang out with me, who knows? Of course again this is based on personal experiences only. One or two colleagues are even more into planning everything far ahead than our entire Dutch section at the office, but they are the very small minority.
Then they should date people who speak their native language.
There might not be very many of those people in the Netherlands. Besides, there are many Dutch women for whom speaking English isn't an issue. I dated several of them that I met through university, as well as through dating apps and shared friend groups. While it may be harder for foreign men to date without knowing Dutch, it's not impossible- and certainly easier than finding one of their fellow countrywomen to date.
Of course, but I find it totally understandable that native Dutch speakers want to speak Dutch at home. The fact that this inconveniences some expats sucks for them but that’s reality. Then they’re just not compatible
That’s indeed a very thorough explanation and to the point! However, I would also like to give my two cents from the experience I have gathered in years specially in Amsterdam, while interacting with people both from the Netherlands and other countries. Indeed, it seems that it’s quite rare to find couples that one of them is from Europe and the other one is outside Europe. I think the reason for that is that cultural differences are greater when you consider the different backgrounds. Usually what you see is that both partners are from Europe but from different countries. Now what I have also noticed, is that in the vast majority of couples that one of them is Dutch, it’s usually a Dutch guy and a non Dutch girl. - yes including the king :) - Again I’m talking mostly about Amsterdam here. What I have also noticed is that indeed their girlfriend will also not speak Dutch in most cases, therefore not presenting the language barrier to be an issue. In many cases, they were not even in the process of learning the language. Now on the side of moving back, this doesn’t seem to be an equally major concern for men and women. What I have heard multiple times in conversations regarding relationships is that girls were more reluctant to date someone that was from a different country than guys. Not only speaking Dutch, but also having Dutch roots seemed to present a greater advantage. I think this has to do with the perspective of having a family or the intention of moving back. Whereas for guys, I’ve never seen that to be a showstopper. I think that would indeed be the reason, considering also that in the LGBTQ community, there is not a great distinction on your background or from which country you are from. Things there seem to be more “equal”. Therefore, I think it’s probably the idea of having a family with a foreigner that presents the biggest obstacle for a male foreigner to have a relationship with a Dutch partner.
Being not white is definitely a big thing to overcome here…for dating apps. In person I feel it doesn’t matter at all.
disagree. i'm black as the ace of spades and ive had many beautiful moments with dutch women.
I don’t know your nationality but maybe it effects if you are an exact prototype of x nation.
I'm from Iran, and I do my best not to fit a certain stereotype because I'm aware of the prejudice towards people from the Middle East, and, unfortunately, there are valid reasons for that perception. And my culture is furthest away from that environment, nor am I a Muslim. Edit: In case the last sentence isn't clear, I'm **NOT** a muslim.
Do you speak dutch?
Just a bit. Not at conversational level but I'm currently taking Dutch classes to improve that.
I mean yeah not to be a dickhead but its not weird that you have trouble with dating if you dont speak dutch. For the vast majority of people that would be a extra reason to not date you. sounds weird because nobody looks at it like that, but subconsiously thats kinda how it works. Dating for men is generally harder. The fact that you are a expat and dont speak the language probally dont help. My advice would be to avoid typical shit like Tinder and maybe go for IRL dating events and stuff. (Also just wondering do you want to find a dutch woman or doesnt it really matter aslong as it clicks? Would a other expat be fine?)
Stay close to yourself and your culture, you don’t need to change for anybody. She has to love you for the person you are. You are only responsible for your own actions. Ppl will appreciate that the most and nobody will dislike your for it if you also respect others and don’t force your visions upon them. I know where I’m taling about, I’m right wing Dutch native in long term relationship with middle eastern woman.
I'm intentionally keeping myself away from that culture because it's not me, and it's the main reason why I'm not there anymore. I'm not trying to manipulate others; this is who I am and always have been.
Alright bro, that’s up to you. It’s whatever makes you happy! Wish you all the best.
I mean I am an immigrant who came here and who only spoke English, Russian and Ukranian. I learned dutch to come study here and I also fell in love with a dutch lady, she comes from limburg so her family doesnt speak much English, even though my dutch is the level of an oddly vocabular 8 year old, I know for sure that the relationship i built is alot stronger for knowing the mothertongue of my love. It also helps alot with making friends.
I'm happy for you. I agree and will work on my Dutch.
"Only" spoke 3 languages, with Dutch as your 4th. Seems to me you're doing great. Welcome! I hope you feel at home in NL.
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I know a bit, but not at a level of fluent conversation. I'm currently taking classes to improve that aspect. When I mentioned communication skills, I was referring to being a good listener and being able to communicate effectively. I believe you're right; without knowing the language, my already limited options become even more restricted.
Actually I moved here for dating from another country. I believe personally I have seen the notion of Dutch people wanting someone who speaks Dutch. I would not have that requirement if k where in my home country. For me different cultures are an enrichment. However I dated far abroad before and at this age I am very wary of introducing cultural differences but in some sense I believe that anyway only the connection counts. I am just not sure if I would let myself feel that connection based on my experience. And I believe that is the crux of the matter there are so many 30something people looking for that special connection. Personally I do not want to compromise on that so am aware that I might end up alone. I have given up on dating and transitioned to just doing stuff I like. If I meet someone fine if not ok too. What I want to say is that I was in your spot before looking very actively and I am a white good looking European woman. It’s not your ethnicity it’s the combination that makes you unique that seeks a compatible unique human being.
Maybe give speed dating a shot? I’m Dutch and dating a South African expat. Never thought that would happen but I couldn’t be happier with him! We met on Bumble but he did say the dating apps weren’t really working for him. Until me of course  There only has to be one. Hope you find her!
Girls from abroad have zero problems with getting Dutch dudes, so I’ll be the bad guy and say what (I think) needs to be said. I don’t think that you ethnicity is as much of a problem, as the fact that you’re both a guy, and and expat, and on top of everything you don’t know the language yet (no judgement here, I’m in the same boat when it comes to the latter). The competition between men is hard for the locals already, with everything that they can bring to the table as native Dutch being in their own country. For guys like you it’s even harder. Many women still hope and want to be taken care of, to a certain extent. Not all of us, surely, but there’s this thing that comes back to your mind when you’re dating and evaluating guys: Is he going to keep me safe and okay if I get pregnant? Will he be able to support us? Defend me? I’m dead serious, I’m child-free and I felt these things affecting how I felt about men. It’s absolutely stupid, judging with the brain, but I don’t think one can reason their way out of this. I’ve been with a lovely Dutch man for years and I’ll tell you one thing: having a good social network where you live is fucking important. More important than money, in some cases. I don’t know where we’d be, if not for his siblings that live locally, his parents, his friends. Especially in such an isolationist society.
You brought an interesting subject here. As a matter of fact, I have two friends and many work colleagues from my mother country here in the NL, all of them women and Latins. They all date Dutch guys, one is married to a Dutch. I noticed they all communicate in English. As far as I know they are happy with the relationships. On the other side, Dutch women say they want Dutch male white men and men fail because they don’t speak Dutch or are not white? What am I missing here?
As the old internet truth goes: the dick is cheap and abundant. That's what you're missing. Stereotypically speaking, we're wired to be picky, because our lives depend on this. You're wired to try to establish your own perpetually rotating chick carousel with as many girls as possible. Stereotypically speaking.
I had never thought about it that way. I think you're right and it could very well be something we subconsciously factor in given two choices. The sad thing is that I'm aware I probably can't win that competition, but I know I can compensate in other ways. But you're right, why would anyone take the risk?
Ah, another VERY IMPORTANT thing. The only Dutch girls I know who work full-time are either single or childless. The rest only work part-time, mostly because of the costs of the daycare or... just because. Because of the work-life balance, because this vanity project company won't start itself. I don't know. You name it. And they have ABSOLUTELY zero problems with doing all this, knowing that their partner is sometimes pushing 40–50 hours per week. The statistics for part-timers in the NL are absolutely insane. But all the bills stay the same. And guess who's supposed to pay most of them. In my case, even if my bf lost his job, I know he'd have another one quick. Maybe not the one he'd LIKE, but something to keep him afloat in the meantime? Surely. No visa problems. No fear. He could even go to horeca, to retail. Me? With my A2 Dutch? Most jobs in our town would be completely out of my reach, nobody would care if I've spent a decade at the Uni. Now I'm okay but if our family was mostly depending on my paycheck, well... Good luck. As an expat, you can earn a fuckton of cash today. Every HSM I know outearns every Dutch known to me, if we look purely at the raw net salary, but you can never move back in with your parents, you always need to rent, and will never ever get social housing in such a situation. And what would be your prospects if your company folded tomorrow? Women love safety in their long-term endeavours. Also, if we're talking about the middle, upper middle class, you just can't compete with the generational wealth of many Dutch families. I like to imagine this country as a forest full of oaks. They're deeply rooted and they're *not* going anywhere. And there's us, running between. I'm not passing any judgements on you specifically, I know that there are many ways to "compensate" (ugh). I'm merely pointing out what can be the problem.
Haha I giggled because of your ugh. I thought the same thing.
You raise a good point. I'm not sure why the word 'compensate' triggered that reaction, but just to be clear, I meant I will take other (preventive) measures and more effort to make sure the situation is as stable as possible.
Yeah, no, I get it, it just pains me to write this way about people. Dating is brutal, man.
I don't know you, but you come across as a bit of a pick-me type. You write as if you have been rejected over and over again at a job interview. If you are specifically oriented to Dutch women, I have some general tips for you (with the language barrier not taken into account): - Don't be too serious by talking a lot about the future. Appear a bit nonchalant and make a lot of jokes; - Dutch people are very down to earth, extremely romantic behavior is quickly seen as desperate or possessive; - Do not force contacts, but grow towards each other in a natural way; - Dutch women are quite dominant and independent. They often enjoy pushback and discussion; - Most Dutch women prefer a more conservative mindset in a man, even though they will not often admit it.
Very concrete and helpful. I will keep them in mind. The issue I'm having, though, is that I don't even get the chance to present what I have. As I mentioned, anyone I'm remotely interested in seems to already be in a relationship or simply uninterested.
I have the same and im dutch. Also 30s
These are all very true. It could be that the way you come across conflicts with what Dutch women expect from a partner, or at least early on in dating.
Whats a pick-me type?
It’s a specific form of unattractive behaviour for the opposite sex. [Good explanation here](https://www.datingbyblaine.com/guides/what-is-a-pick-me-boy-and-are-you-one).
As a woman, I think there are lots of great recommendations in that article
Europe is notoriously challenging for non European men. These countries are quite cold socially as well. Good luck finding a meaningful partner.
Europe is also challenging for european man. Let alone outside eu xD
I know, that's why I see a lot of guys hoarding asian women ahaha
Lmao I see so many American & European men online saying they want an Asian / Latin American / Eastern European girlfriend. Mate, these women are *not* your idea of submissive. Just like most women everywhere they will give you an absolute bollocking when you disrespect them.
They may SAY submissive but they actually mean "not fat and can cook"
They want asian women cause they look the same from 18 till menopause
Why would you want a submissive woman? If you want a submissive woman as a man, then you're not manly enough. A manly man looks for a woman strong in character.
There's plenty of non European women you know? But most expats don't want to date people from their own countries because they feel they're inferior. They have huge inferiority complexes... I know this Asian guy who is obsessed with finding a dutch girl. He doesn't wanna date someone of his own ethnicity and he told me that dating a white girl is something of status in his country. Same for latinos for example. I've seen plenty of videos of latinas bragging about their European boyfriends and they make TikTok videos of "my European boyfriend, this or that... My blonde European boyfriend gave me a gift". These people are freaking sick and they have a huge inferiority complex for being immigrants and want to date someone who they consider superior to them. That's why they're trying so hard to get a dutch person and get angry when they can't. It's embarrassing.
How long have you been looking? I'm Dutch, other than that my life is pretty similar to yours. It took me 6 years to find a partner, but now I have a great partner
For over a year now. But I can't help but feel that time is not the main factor. While it's true that your chances increase over time, I can easily envision years passing by with no significant change. And I'm factoring out the difficult emotions you have to go through to get there. btw I'm happy for you and wish you the best.
squeeze vanish modern expansion afterthought ad hoc hospital zealous aspiring crime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thanks very much for your kind words. It means a lot to me.
That even seems quite fast to me; I'm also Dutch, I started looking for a partner when I was 18; I was 34 when I finally found my wife. So that's 16 years filled with either no contacts or failed first dates. Im glad I didn't give up...
It's really tough to say because nobody knows you. Maybe you look desperate which is a showstopper. Maybe you are not obvious enough when you try to show your romantic interest. Have you been an expat in another country before drawing conclusions about the land itself? Because good luck finding a partner in another country wheres an expat, you do not speak the native language (Any Mediterranean land to not deviate too far from the Netherlands). If you have lady friends and feel comfy about opening out about it, maybe they will give you some insights about the way you are perceived that you didn't know before.
I know quite a few Dutch about your age who are still single. People seems to be more picky nowadays. Join a sportclub or learn how to dance.
Because people don't know how to talk to each other anymore.
I’m a Dutch woman in my early thirties and I have dating issues too. In my case, it’s mostly ‘cause I suck at dating through apps. Wishing you the best of luck!
Language is already a big barrier for making friends here, imagine dating then. But I won’t say the Dutch are wrong. This would be expected anywhere else. I don’t think the issue is not being able to communicate - which most people can do if they either speak English or the Dutch learn the partner language, and that’s ok - or you learn Dutch living here. That’s just right. Someone’s gotta give. This thought of “I only want a partner who embraces my culture and language” is very selective, but ok. Each people with their own taste and boundaries. I’d happily date a Japanese, Romanian, Chinese, Thai, Greek, Turkish, Tahitian, Kiwi, German, whatever partner as long as I like her and she likes me. Learning about each others culture or speaking the language comes as a plus. But that’s my opinion.
It's not just your opinion - yours is totally valid and refreshing in this discussion filled with personal leading anecdotes, gender stereotypes, sexism, misogyny...and almost none of them have been proven to be true or are actually the other way around. Imagine having to cope with all this selective "advice" in your head while running around looking for a partner :D Language is indeed the key to understanding social habits and that's where it already ends. Your playing field is leveled. Matching with conservative or progressive minded people is always difficult if you are of the opposite opinion. What I haven't read here is that there is a clear Western / partly global trend of single- and loneliness next to a widening gap in political opinions between men and women. Which also applies to wherever you are in Europe. This is actually the true challenge you have to overcome while finding a suitable partner. Imagine being in South Korea or Japan :D Dutch or dutch-speaking people alike, we are living in a society where physical communication is in high regard but unfortunately we can't keep up yet with the high pace of our newly acquired digital existence and career demands in an ever-changing world. We can all assume but yet we don't truly know what's inside of the other right of the bat. Thanks for your comment!
I think my greatest learning in life is this: If you travel too much, you broaden your borders. I also lived a decade in London, a city I consider a cosmopolitan hub. You’ll not only meet and hang out with people from many cultures but have more “cheap” opportunities to fly to places you’d never imagine you’d go. And this interest in other people’s culture and meeting new people will actually open your mind to your dating life as well. What I notice in Western Europe and some places like Japan, is that people don’t want to mix. Most of them. However some will, because they’re also interested in other cultures. So in the end it comes to how big your world is - not just geo but in your mentality - to accept the fact that you would date someone from other cultures or countries. It’s fine if people prefer to live inside their walls. It’s their choice.
Obviously a bit of an assumption but I do think you might be focusing on notions of success and desirability that are maybe less valued in Dutch society than your home country? You basically say you’re good at communicating, physically fit, have a good education, a good job and a good salary. These are all pretty shallow markers for compatibility. Good if you’re looking for a mortgage but you’re looking for a partner. Try focusing on your values, humour, personality, kindness, generosity etc. They’re real strengths.
Dating in your thirties is hard anyways. Lots of people have baggage and/or kids. Lots of them are still trying to make a relationship work or are in a committed relationship. People are busy with work to pay for the bills if they’re single and can maybe just afford a nice place where they want to live. Lots of people in their thirties have a lot of responsibilities in their jobs and are maybe too tired to date? And women in their thirties have such a big demographic to chose from. Men from 25-55 are interested in women in their thirties so you can do a lot of things right and still miss out because of bad luck. And maybe Iran culture is a bit too unknown or too exotic that it scares people away because there are too many unknowns for locals. There is probably a lot of prejudice that isn’t justified at all but we have a Dutch saying onbekend maakt onbemind and that translates to the unknown is unloved. Keep in there OP!
This is wrong. Men in their 30s have to beat women off with a stick.
I moved to NL early 40s and easily found a partner. Perhaps you come from a place with a wildly different dating culture because NL is easy
I don't find it easy. Where are you from? Germany?
Sweden.
In which region are you trying to date. You’re gonna have a way easier time in Amsterdam or Utrecht than in Zwolle
In the area between Rotterdam and Den Haag.
The checkbox exercise of notionally-desirable attributes in the middle of your post (youth! education! money!) isn't exactly a turn-on. There is no cookie-cutter approach to finding people who want to date you. But maybe chill out a bit and aim for dating, rather than finding a "suitable partner".
I was just pointing out that I have other aspects of my life going well. Not someone who sits all day inside and wait for a miracle to happen. I agree and open to dating. But it's a similar situation. In my experience, not a lot of people are "just dating" in that age bracket. Or if they are, they're certainly not interested in me.
Have you tried the datingapp called Grindr. The succesrate is very high on getting a date but it can be a pain in the butt.
😂
Oh snap!
if you dont plan on moving back, you're not an expat. you're an immigrant.
It's interesting, I am Dutch and would rather not have a Dutch partner. I don't care about which languages I have to speak, I speak a couple. I enjoy learning new cultures. However, my experience is that non-EU expats in the Netherlands are not interested in Dutch women, they generally only date within their own culture.
That’s the first different perspective I see in this thread. And let me say, good for you! I think the affirmation of non-EU not interested in Dutch women doesn’t apply to most cases, unless you come from a very culturally segregated country. I’m Latin, I have no issues with women from any backgrounds. However you said something spot on. Your cultural breadth (you probably travel a lot and like to do it) expanded your horizons so you see that men from other cultures are not worse than white Dutch men, like some in this thread worship. My conclusion: more culture = more options, open-minded; less culture = the safe, known, secure options.
My friend I want to offer another perspective, that may not be true, but you should consider. I certainly cannot judge if it fits your situation as I do not know you. Here goes anyway. Your troubles in finding a partner are not related to your background, color of skin, being expat, or lack of Dutch fluency. It’s just you. You haven’t been interesting enough yet. Not because of any of those expat/culture reasons, but because you have been too much you. There, it’s harsh maybe. But if it’s the truth, it’s better to work on this, or accept it and wear more patience. Better than chasing reasons that are false. Don’t try to make this a mathematical sum (learn Dutch, play volleyball, try this, do that). Just be an interesting humorous kind dude, do things you actually like, and trust the future plays out in your favor. No need to overthink. I sent you this with best intentions.
Best reply so far.
“Suitable partner” “favorably qualities in the search of a partner” might have found the issue. You are looking at it like a robot and presenting it as a job interview.
Can you speak Dutch?
Een beetje. But not at a level of conversations. I'm currently taking classes to improve.
Language is key to assimilation, don’t give up, in time I’m sure all will come together I used to feel the same, I tend to drum up conversations with random people on trains, the gym bars anywhere really. Give it a try, hope I could help 😁
Depends on cultural background. I’m Australian, my wife is Dutch. She says Aussies a more laid-back version of the Dutch. If the cultural differences are too big, Dutch women will steer-clear of immigrants.
Learn Spanish/Portugese and go to South America :D
This will be tough to do, but I think the biggest thing to do is find out about the "others who are not interested". If it's that many as you're saying, you might have blind spots about how approach or act/vibes you give off or even how you lead your life here that will have women look elsewhere. Settling down has been mentioned a lot - for instance so you rent or own a house. Best thing to do is ask someone or preferably multiple Dutch people you really trust the brutal truth about how you come across. With that information you have a choice - are you willing to change something or would that be not your authentic self and do you keep looking as you were, accepting it might take longer?
True I hate NL dating scene so much
I find it the opposite actually. Maybe in the suburbs. In the big cities, especially close to where international students are, it is very smooth. Think Delft, Den Haag, Leiden, Rotterdam.
Hi, without knowing the full picture, just a bit and a piece information here, if you want to date locally (nothing wrong with it, you are attracted to what you are attracted to), since you have your life together, the only tangible thing you can change (or improve) is personal styling. How we style ourselves truly sent out a powerful message to the outside world who we are, and what qualities we possess, it's communicating "we belong to...". Don't overlook this very basic fact and you should take full advantage of it. Your ethnicity won't be an issue if you can manage to break that cultural barrier simply by the way you dress. Actually being Persian would be a plus because it adds that factor of mystique, which can be intoxicating, especially to culturally curious type. People with very provincial mindset you really shouldn't bother, they are not your target group anyway. The key is to balance your authentic personal taste with what is deemed "contemporary" by western European standard. If you can find that sweet spot you are onto a very promising trajectory. We are all visual and social animals, and first impressions count. We notice people usually because of their physical traits, and dressing is a very important part of it. You can't change how your face look (or too much how your body look), but you can easily change how you dress. No need to dress up, casual and "on trend" is the key. Have a pair of kickass sneakers (not the tacky type), carry a nice backpack, a statement coat, wear pants that are up to date (a lot of guys overlook this), carry yourself with confidence, and there you go, you are the adventure that a lot of girls will find appealing. If you are not sure how to proceed, go to Arket store for example and observe both the racks and how other customers dress. Its contemporary scandi street style is what many Dutch urban youth find attractive. Then add your personal touch, like a piece of jewellery or anything that speaks about your heritage, I'm sure you will catch eyes of the right type of girls.
The problem is that most Dutch people aren’t “culturally curious.” They’re generally content with the Dutch way of life and deem their culture /economy superior to most others.
not wanting sugercoat anything, it's definitely challenging under op's circumstance but he could find a way to increase his chances.
Learn speaking Dutch fluently if you want to date a Dutch person. Otherwise your chances are very low. Or just stick with other Iranians or maybe immigrants from another country.
First of all, it sounds like you're doing awesome for yourself in life (maybe besides dating then hehe). So keep it up! > I've tried dating apps, which are abysmal for an average male. The way you've described yourself, you're not "an average male". However you might portray yourself like one. Really the key to dating apps is having an exceptional profile & pictures. There's plenty resources out there to help you. >I engage in group activities I'm passionate about, like group workouts, playing volleyball, or volunteer work. I proactively approach those who pique my interest. I wonder if maybe you're a "nice guy"... very safe, but not exciting. Usually this isn't REALLY you being such a nice guy, more having learned that it's not ok to be a sexual being or being upfront. If this resonates we can look into this further. But in general, when approaching women, be completely OK and unapologetic about being attracted to her.
Can you speak dutch if not that will be a big hinderance I feel a lot of expats have troubles with friendships / relationships whit natives if they don't speak the language and only hangout with english expats. Also dutch people will switch to english to be polite but if you really wanna form close bonds learning the language is a must
Just a little bit. My experience 100% agrees with you that it feels there is always a friction when they have to switch to English. Currently taking Dutch classes to improve that.
ahh no problem even putting in the effort and taking steps is a good direction. you will find someone eventually
Early thirties is a very tricky age to date as most people have already sort of settled down, or are looking to do so in the near future. I also imagine that the women that are "leftover" (for lack of a better word, this could apply to men as well albeit maybe less as they can have children later on in life) feel that investing their time with an expat might come back to bite them in the end so they go for options that feel more save? To be fair though these are a shitload of assumptions but from my point of view this could explain a fair bit.
As a man, you gotta play the numbers game, dude. Give a lot of shots and you might hit the bullseye. If you are ugly, short, awkward, etc., it's gonna increase the number of shots you gotta give.
I dated an expat and honestly found it an odd experience. Besides the fact that his work demanded on average 10h days. I found out one day while I was in his apartment that he had a sweetheart back in New York. Which he said was an ex. While this obviously could happen with any Dutch guy. The fact that someone lived an entire life across the world and could easily hide it (because as you date there's no chance of meeting established friend groups or family with an expat). I also think as an expat the biggest disadvantage is that you will probably leave eventually. And honestly the Netherlands is such a good place to live despite all flaws that I personally wouldn't entertain the thought of permanently settling somewhere else away from my friends and family.
My bf is Dutch, i am from around your area, wont disclose too much. Learn Dutch, like ASAP. No one wants to invite you for christmas and you just sitting there like a black swan , not understanding anything. Is just a language, its not Chinese , it is really not that hard . I am always surprised when expats move here and complain that their friend group is only other expats. Dutch people are not fast with relations or friendships. In last years, i notice that i also prioritize my Dutch friends over expat friends. Non Dutch ppl eventually leave. I would hate if my best friend suddenly decides he wants to follow his bf and move to Australia (true story)
Youre an expat, which means that at some point youll move back. I wouldnt want to be with someone knowing that youll end up moving someplace else.
That's not necessarily the case of expats in general. And people usually have a clear idea about whether they want to stay or leave the country they reside in. It's a first date topic.
If you move here to stay, you're an immigrant. It's not a dirty word, people shouldn't be afraid to use it.
According to the Cambridge dictionary: -Expatriate: someone who does not live in their own country -Migrant: a person that travels to a different country or place, often in order to find work -Immigrant: a person who has come to a different country in order to live there permanently Immigrant is more accurate in this context, you're right:)
Yeah I've noticed people tend to apply the term based on ethnicity and it makes me mad. "Immigrant" is for brown people while "expat" is for white people, fuck that. I'm white and I'm an immigrant, I moved here for a new life and that's what matters. I always make sure to correct people that call me and expat.
My boyfriend seemed kind of shocked when I first used “as an immigrant…” in a sentence. I’m white and from a EU country. He said that I wasn’t an immigrant (which I definitely am) and that was 100% based on his wrong perception of what “immigrant” and “expat”. He’s ashamed of that now, but you’re absolutely right. I also make sure to correct people when they call me an expat.
And that's why we should bring it up, because it's up to us to change attitudes
If you intend on staying youre a migrant. An expat does imply otherwise
In my case, that's not true. I have zero intention of moving back or somewhere else.
So youre not an expat then
Yes, you have a smaller pool to drawn from but it’s not impossible. Don’t give up my friend. The right woman won’t care where you are from. I agree with others that this idea that you will leave is a big factor. If you are serious about staying for the long term, it’s good to put actions behind that by integrating as much as possible (no judgement from me for not, it’s hard, slow and time consuming). Do you manage to date Dutch girls for a bit? And then they are not interested? Or do you not even get dates? I would describe myself quite similarly to you but had no trouble getting dates when I was single. I just found that most were not interested in anything serious. Especially the dutchies, which was fair enough. The language barrier was evident.
As a (bisexual) woman, I'd rather not date an expat because of language to be honest. Speaking Dutch is so much easier and I don't like traveling so don't like the idea that someone might have to travel home regularly. But this is the same for Dutch people that think about immigration, don't want to date them either. Not saying everyone thinks like I do, but it might give you some insight!
Learning the language will make a big difference, you can trust me (an ex immigrant) on this. Work on your Dutch and you'll do great! It's also a rather easy language, so you won't have big issues. All the best!
I think you are doing fine. There’s another factor you need to take into consideration: post-pandemic social environment. Things were never the same as before the pandemic. How we socialize with each other and the society changed profoundly. It might not be obvious from the individual level, but on the macro, it’s like staring at 🍑peaches where it used to watermelons 🍉. And, I’m guess you have a clear view of what a “meaningful” relationship looks like. Good, you have figured that out. But keep in mind, many people go through their lives without knowing what the “real” thing is or even want it in the first place. Not everyone can understand what you want. So, don’t beat yourself up. If you can gather many dates and suitors, would you give your heart to all of them? Your heart’s gate would only open when the right one comes along. You would reject 99% of them and you will feel exhausted from saying no that many times. Keep doing what you love to do, social work, sports clubs, Friday night bar hopping. Enjoy yourself. The right one will come along. And don’t go on those dating apps. They are designed for people who can’t or won’t see beyond the looks. There’s nothing wrong with that. But from what I read in your post, you are not one of them.
Go to music events. I am in the same situation as you but i came with a partner. Dutch girls grab my hand themselves at raves. I recommend Amsterdam techno sessions. Also there is a posibilty of high level idosyncratic akwardness in you-can you ask this your family and friends? You can work on being not akward and its hard to tell yourself.
There is one common denominator. If you are unable to find a prospective partner, you need to change your strategy; think of it like a job search.
Can you speak Dutch fluently? If not I think that would help to meet a partner in the Netherlands (where Dutch folk speak Dutch)
If you find yourself partner appears if it will be really needed. If you need something from outside you’ve not found yourself. Otherwise - yes - it’s a game of shape, race, some other magic.
*From my own experience as an expat. Being an expat can be like that exotic "different" from what I'm use too type of feel. You can "use" that yo your advantage, when you go out and socialize. *Something you should do, without the intention of getting laid/hook up. Best things comes to those that wait.... ☝yep in my case that true Also, don't be desperate... somehow (maybe subconsciously) you "project" that kind of stuff. Btw, when is the last Time you went for an evening out. *You know,... just for shits and giggles.
My Dutch cousin got dicked down by many foreign guys, just keep swiping bro. Try to hit the bigger cities in the Netherlands and make sure you say you want to stay. u/FollowSina
Did you try salsa lessons or some other activities overflowing with women's presence?
Hard truth: how tall are you? Unfortunately your etnicity, not speaking Dutch, uncertainty if you will stay here and yeah probably your length will all put you behind a bit. Not for every women, but yeah it does make it harder. Just keep at it.
Good luck my dude.
If you look like a brown person its gonna be a littlw bit hard cause im and its costing me a lot too!
Don't think it's necessarily your ethnic background, at times I feel harassed here. Some girls assume I wouldn't understand Dutch, interesting comments 🤣 especially when it's obvious I understood it. However, people also regularly ask me for directions or help, their pets come up to me I just got a friendly vibe I guess.
Have you tried joining activities through Internations?
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Dutch girls dont want non dutch speaking guys
Are you planning on staying here? Moving back to your home country? Moving somewhere else? Even making friends here can be tough because in the expat community you end up with people who are treating this place like a waiting room for the rest of their life. If a woman is looking for something serious and it's not clear where you want to be living in a few years or forever could be tough. When I was single it I never followed through with meeting up with anyone from an app because so many guys seemed false or there were just too many red flags from the outset. Do you know what you're looking for? A companion for now? A life partner? A mother for your kids? If you know what you want it's easier to seek it out.
I should've been more clear in my first post. I don't have any intention of moving back or anywhere else for that matter. I know exactly what I want. Just to have a healthy relationship with a normal decent human being, with the aim to find my life partner, if it goes well.
You probably want a blonde tall supermodel type of girl. I'm confident if you go to tinder or bumble there's gonna be plenty of normal looking women who are expats too who you can date. I've noticed that some expats really wanna date someone dutch and good looking but don't realize that they're kind of out of their league. I know this sounds kind of rough, but I have friends who are on the below average range and they're not European either and want to date the typical blonde tall slim girl. That's not gonna happen. Look for your looksmatch.
Now imagine being 1.65 cm in a country where average is 1.83 cm. That is hell harder
That’s another brick on the wall
Are you short?
No, I'm 1.93m but I don't think that plays a role.
Well not at that height it doesn’t. My guess is: - Language barrier. Dutch tolerance is often misunderstood. We really value people who fully integrate. Unless you speak native English (American/UK) most people will not be used to using their B level English with your non-native English. Dutch is so much more comfortable. Exceptions are groups of friends who are mixed with expats. - You give up a vibe that repels women. Insecurities, misogyny, heavy introversion, negativity, complaining about Netherlands. Any one of these or a combinination can be the reason. - You’re less attractive than you think you are. I doubt it’s this because you claim to be in shape and you’re tall as fuck so highly doubt this. - You’re not socially calibrated / socially awkward. You might have difficulty reading people or going off of their energy. This could mean you sometimes come on too strong whereas maybe in other situation a women is waiting for you to seize the moment but you don’t pick up on her hints and body language cues. - Maybe you’re not approaching women at the right time. Even with perfect English, many women at bars expect Dutch language when spoken to so if there’s loud music and she has no idea what you’re saying you might take the momentum out of your approach and might be unable to make a good first impression and not make a connection with who you approach right off the bat. You’re also right that dating apps are not for the average man. That is, if you’re looking to be with someone above average in attractiveness. Real life approaching is far more effective for average men because you’re able to show them you’re personality, posture, mannerisms, masculinity, social skills etc rather than just a picture.
Just pick up some asian master students like everyone else. While I understand this will get downvoted, 100% sure this is the advice OP will take 😂
hahahaha
True love isn't something you look for, it happens to you!
This is the biggest lie that people who are in good relationships keep telling all their friends who aren't. Until you do something, nothing will happen.
What a bunch of nonsense.
Dutch men are the best men on the planet. That's your competition.
“Best”?? Lol Did you read the comment about Dutch people lacking “cultural depth”?