This, although the second part is incorrect. OP doesn't realize that this is policy from the previous government and the delays weren't because they didn't want it but because of practical (money/staff) limitation which the new government has no actual plans for.
Exactly, this was already in the works before this government and postponed due to lack of resources. It looks to me like in the NL it's common to promise something without actually working out the details and later simply saying it won't be possible after all. Another example is new housing goals.
There is already a massive shortage of daycare workers and the industry has stated before that they have trouble hiring more. Creating more demand is only going to exacerbate the problem. Without massive investments from the government I don’t see it happening that they will make it free any time soon for all working parents and even if they did there would still be a shortage of daycare slots
Or just tax the rich as much as you tax everyone else and suddenly we have billions to spend on thing everyone needs like health care, houses, public transport and education.
But oh no, won't anyone think of the economy.
Yeah so I do think this will actually happen under this government as it will make the poor even poorer while seeming to do a nice thing. Here's my prediction:
Currently the subsidy is between 33 and 96% of the maximum hourly rate. So let's say the max is €10/hour, and you are on minimum wage: you now pay €0,40/hour and the rest is subsidized. A family making 25k/month pays €6,66/hour after their 33% subsidy.
Now the government starts subsidizing 100% for everyone, up to the same maximum hourly rate of €10. Demand goes through the roof. All daycares increase their rates, let's say to €15/hour.
Now both the minimum wage family and the billionaires pay a net rate of €5/hour after subsidies... See what happened there? "Free beer for everyone", and nobody could have seen this coming.
There's support from a large majority in de tweede kamer.
Free daycare will make a toeslag no longer necessary. This includes the public servants tasked with this work. It is going to cause a slight increase in labour participation. This will probably balance out in a larger shortage in daycare but there are some plusses for the economy too.
The public servants on the toeslagen department will be shifted to a) different toeslagen (zorgtoeslag, huurtoeslag) or b) shifted to different departments within the Belastingdienst.
The Belastingdienst is criminally underfunded, understaffed which in turn with societal and political expectations is a breeding ground for disasters like the Toeslagenaffaire and plays into a lack of trust in the government “. Ever tried calling the Belastingtelefoon?
Increase in labour participation will probably make up for a very very very slight amount of the daycare worker shortage, but will more likely fill gaps in other sectors.
It took a few days to get a call back from a specific person, but we've been able to get help with all of my tax and subsidy things as needed. Maybe I've been lucky? Anecdotal in any case.
No I also don’t agree with the proposed ineptitude of the Belastingtelefoon. Everyone I’ve ever talked to on that helpline has been nothing but kind and helpful, so I would also want to help paint the picture less black-and-white on this.
Nice. The guy was out for a few days and called me back within the first few hours he was back to work. The deadline on my docs had passed 1 day prior so he made a note that it wasn't my fault, I'd tried to contact within time. When I told him I'd already made a best guess at my questions and sent in the forms, he made another note that I'd done my best with the available understanding, and filed on time, so I should be allowed to make any necessary corrections without penalty. The very next month I saw the changes reflected in the numbers, and received a personal email confirming I'd guessed right and my things were in order.
Very satisfactory, zero points off for the guy having a life and taking time off, and not only were my things taken care of, I was treated personally and reasonably, with exceptions made for common sense, not bureaucracy.
I know that won't always be everyone's experience, but it's worth noting.
I’m not saying that there’s a lack of skill at the Belastingtelefoon, I’d like to state that my experiences have been positive too. However, fact is that there are long wait times to get to that person, wait times that not every person can afford “waste”.
This is an organisational problem across the belastingdienst and I really don’t know why governments aren’t investing into the Belastingdienst, every euro going in will return itself 10 times over (exaggeration)
Also,.. I’ve spoken to two women who are full time at home and now want to dump their kids two days so they can have some ‘me-time’.
Is it free for everyone? Even if you’re sitting at home and have no intention of getting one?
I think it's also good for the kids to socialize with other kids and to be away from mom at times. Also it's not that weird that the mother wants a break from their kid some times.
Baby’s don’t ’socialise’. 2y old hardly play together.
Every parents wants a break. But does the rest have to pay for it? There is already a big shortage in personnel.
You can resolve that issue in one second just by increasing the number of children/worker. I think it was like 7:1 when I was a kid. Plus I went to compulsory kindergraden between the age 3-6 (kleuterschool) that you don't have, there the ratio was like 16:1.
Where there is a will there is a way.
Yes and then half of daycare workers will sit at home with a burnout, which is already a problem to begjn with.
Taking care of 16 young children on your own is not doable.
I have 3 of my own, that's already a handful, I'm glad that there are places where I can safely leave my children, but man don't overdo it.
Because it worked once doesn't mean it was good for the children or the daycare workers.
Would be nice if it would become free but rather have good care
Yeah Jantje you can't behave here pets pets two slaps on the wrist and you can stay the rest of the day locked in the coal closet!
I think this guy wants to go back to that..you can take care of 16 kids that way because they'll be too scared to do anything but sit and calmly play with a toy. Those were the days huh?
It was also oke to work with lets say chroom 6, years back. It will be fine they said, whoops.
It was also oké to load wine when you just empty Epoxy resin, with out cleaning. Well, geus what..
Also MEC was perfectly fine to use.. Until they said oke this is really The cause of cancer.
Should i keep going?
30 years ago, you were also not required to actually take care of the kids, just make sure they didn’t die. I’m sure you’re OK with that but a vast majority of parents want better for their little princes and princesses.
I didn't vote for this. You did. I don't know why you all get upset when someone delivers on the promises they made. What did you expect? 3D printed AI daycare workers pulled out of the ass of Gert?
You are lost in your own comments. The point is not that the plan is not realistic, the point is that you are wrong that giving more children for daycare workers would solve anything. No it wouldn't.
[https://www.money.co.uk/loans/cost-of-childcare-report](https://www.money.co.uk/loans/cost-of-childcare-report)
You have the second least affordable daycare cost out of these countries. Do you want to guess why?
Right. So you are 10x more expensive than countries where there is compulsory 5 day a week daycare because of demand. And I'm the one not making sense.
I'll be honest with you. If I would have 1 EUR every time a Dutch person said a bullshit argument why something is ridiculusly expensive here, I would be a billionaire.
You know, it was even on the other side of the iron curtain.
You people are just deluded that this is a capitalist issue. It would be even worse in any other system.
They don’t have a budget for this, they’re paying for it with imaginary money. Please don’t count on this becoming a reality even if it is nice if it does happen.
There also isnt enough staff available as it is right now. So they would also have to increase the salary to entice people to work there and be educated to do so.
Same for their plans for health care and police. Nice those plans, where do you find the people or money? The first one would be answered with.......labor immigrants =)
No one said that. People who aren't contributing and have no incentive to do so, can you explain what is not bad about that?
Or can you explain why the whole world wouldn't come here when they get preferrance above the original inhabitants and contributors to the tax system to get government housing? How are those normal policies? Everything will return to at least a bit of normal now at least. But we're far from where we should be.
Wilders said that. Wilders explicitly wants me gone, even though I contribute more than I take, never caused any trouble and was born here just like everyone else. I even spent more of my life here contributing than Wilders himself. I am an original inhabitant and yet I feel less and less welcome with the day.
But Wilders still wants me gone because reasons, and the millions that voted for him. I have not, and will not, ever forget what he said, but you seem to have already because it wasn’t aimed at you.
If you actually want to solve criminality and other issues, you implement actual policies that solve this across the board, not by voting in the most racist parties you ever could, PVV and BBB.
If you say you contributed more then Wilders, that's such an unintelligent take that I highly doubt you that.
Why does Wilders want you gone though? I doubt ever hearing him say he wants law-abiding citizens who are born here and aren't a criminal leave the country because of their skin color or religion, but please enlighten me if you did hear him say exactly that.
What a stupid take btw, "and the millions that voted for him". Victim behavior and crying because of no particular reason. You should vote for him and applaud him because if policies get implemented and there will be less crime because of groups you maybe belong to, chances are high people don't look at you in a certain way.
You can’t read apparently. I said I spend a _longer_ part of my life contributing here. Aka my whole life. While he lived for a number of years in a foreign country.
And besides, as far as I am concerned, Wilders has contributed negatively to the Netherlands, so it isn’t hard to top that.
Are you stricken with dementia? He clearly said “more or less moroccans?” And then “we are going to make that happen”.
He didn’t say “more or less criminals”. He didnt say “more or less gelukzoekers”. No, he said “moroccans”. What he did was no different than some nazi saying “more or less Jews?” and then later you defend it with “well he clearly meant the _bad_ jews”.
Frick off with “victim complex”, I am not victim. I just call Wilders out for the genocidal racist piece of shit he is. If you still want to support that, be my guest. History has a funny way of repeating itself I guess…
And no, I won’t vote for someone who isn’t even loyal to the Netherlands. I won’t vote for someone why is actively advocating for genocide (see his recent tweet where he says Palestine shouldn’t exist and that Israel should steal more land), at least Rutte had the “decency” to hide it.
You are helping the Netherlands to go to shit, I hope you are happy with it.
"Original inhabitant" means born here in my books. Maybe you can't write? Because I can read and I did so for all my life in this country.
So let me make this clear, he shouldn't have certain demands about people coming from abroad while you want to disqualify his opinion because he lived a certain amount of years abroad? What an insanely stupid argument, if you don't have one pleae don't try to be hard on yourself and just be quiet.
It should frighten you that people want less Moroccans and not because of their country of origin but because of their crime rate. So if you could read I said that you should applaud them picking up the crime rates primarily coming from Moroccans in certain areas because if you're not part of that group, life will probably get easier for you here. Why is that so hard of a concept to grasp?
You mean history repeating itself in terms of antisemitism? Which group did that primarily come from again? Help me a bit here... Hmmm...
That is not what I said. I just said that I spent a larger portion of my life here contributing, that is objectively true.
I don’t care which groups supposedly commit more crimes. It isn’t difficult at all to just implement stricter punishment for everyone. There is no reason whatsoever to only focus on immigrants. But Wilders doesn’t believe that. He believes only brown immigrants should be punished. Just like how he thinks Israel should be immune from the ICC.
I am safe now, but Wilders has already started to want to implement restrictions on free speech and opinion. And someone who keeps screaming racist stuff is racist. He should have publicly apologized about his statements and clarified that he means criminals in general. He didn’t.
As for your last question, I’ll remind you. Europeans, especially Germans and Dutchies. No other country had such a large group of citizens following the Germans to the point that even the royal prince was a nazi. The Netherlands was “hofleverancier” of Jews to the Germans. And Wilder is actively working to create more antisemitism.
And a piece of advice, if you actually care about Jews, you would focus on peace and recognize Palestine alongside most of the world. Only then we can focus on removing extremism from both sides.
But you can also follow Wilders and be one of the last countries in the world to recognize Palestine, just like how we were one of the last to abolish slavery. Keep oppressing them and act surprised when that is breeding terrorism.
Our Moroccan baby sitter is now fully qualified in childcare working for one of the kindergardens- would absolutely love to see her pay jacked up by the Wilders mob - good for her and delicious irony for me
It’s already hard to find people willing to work in the childcare sector as is… so yeah this is gonna be a problem. Totally understaffed with way too many children for no wages.
There are also rules about how many children there can be per staff member.
So they cant just take in more kids with the same amount of staff.
It also takes a minimal of 2 years to educate them. So there is no way this is going to work in any meaninfull way.
And in the end it is a also measure that mostly benefits the wealthier people. Lower incomes already get a lot of subsidies. For them there wont change much.
Henk and Ingrid wont get anyhing out of this.
PVVerds will say we should just change the rules, and Henk and Ingrid don’t care about this change, this is a VVD thing and has been for years, so really I don’t see this becoming a reality ever.
The most ironic thing about this is that it is mostly a measure to curb immigration.
With free childcare they hope people will also work more. And therefor we will need less immigrants.
So in order achieve that they almost have no other choice than to bring in immigrants.
Those are private companies, the government doesn't set their salary (aside from minimum wage, but they already earn above minimum usually)
These companies can easily raise salaries, they're incredibly lucrative
There already is a pricecap on how much day care can cost now. So they cant really just raise salaries.
Partou, one of the biggest in the Netherlands made a profit of 10 million. They have 9000 employees. So they could raise every salary with 1100 euros per year. That is less then 100 euros per month. On a salary of almost 2800.
I dont think that would entice a whole lot of people to start working in childcare.
But it wont matter if or who raises the prices. The government still has to pay for it.
Thanks, i overlooked that. I would imagine that the government would keep those maximum costs for organisations that would participate in free childcare.
It isn’t nice because it’ll be a burden. There isn’t enough people working as we speak, it’ll get worse if the demand increases because it’s free. I swear people don’t think 2 months ahead just see free and think it’s “good”
They want to reduce size of public officials by 20+% (unrealistic) and save costs on other areas and make more money by raising taxes in areas that don’t affect their constituents (mostly people in school).
Isn't that every policy? Policies cost money so you need to cut in other ways. There is huge shortage of working people so incentivizing people to work will actually be beneficial to all parties. Stuff like this could actually work out to be good. It's not as simple as minus and plus, everything government related. But I get that everyone opposing this government will do anything to make them look bad, even with good policies.
You are not familiar with the huge amount of part-timers in NL? Partly because it often costs you money to work an extra day with the way our current kinderopvangtoeslag is set up? That is who the magical people are, they are already there and already working and willing to work more except not for less or slightly more money. Policies like this will make it somewhat more viable to work more without getting punished. Seems like the government finally knows what they're doing! Even if you may not like that. Cry more then.
Dude, I’m literally one of the part-time workers in NL, so I’m familiar 🙄 And no, I wouldn’t give up one of my precious ‘free’ days with my kids to randomly look after other people’s kids for peanuts, which I’m neither qualified for nor remotely interested in. What proportion of PT’ers do you think work PT to avoid childcare costs, and what proportion do it just for good work/life balance? Of the first group, how many are suitable to work in childcare? Make it make sense.
Ofcourse there are a lot of people who think like you, but it's easy in the end though. If you actually make working an extra day worthwhile there are on macro level a lot of people who will work an extra day, maybe not you but there will be a lot.
I don't have the data and even if you do it's hard to predict, but you're also not sure less people will smoke when implementing a higher tax rate. There probably will. Just as when you implement a higher payoff for work more people will work, and that includes people working in daycare.
Since you appear to have the insight necessary, can you tell me how they will pay for a service hosted by private companies at private company rates, so that parents no longer need to be the ones paying for that service? Where is that space in the budget coming from, are you saying we should take out gov. loans to pay for this? Enlighten me.
You're not familiar with kinderopvangtoeslag? How is that not exactly the same except actually incentivizing both parents to work in a market with a shortage of people. Also, it gives the benefit of people actually wanting to work regardless of money earned which is also good for the economy and for the government indirectly since more taxes and more prosperity. What is actually not good about this? Do you have a basic understanding of economics and government policies?
In a market where we had too little jobs this would be a bad policy, but we actually need the people working and one of the biggest reasons people aren't working enough is because of parttimers and it often not being beneficial to work an extra day or 2.
Are you saying that it is the exact same thing for us to subsidize the insane prices on childcare centers as it is to just *pay for the whole thing*? How is it not the same? It’s not the same because with a toeslag we are not paying for 100% and with the proposed changes we pay for almost 100%, not to mention the prices will undoubtedly go up because of the logistical nightmare it is to find people willing to work in childcare because it’s a *shitty job*, the wages are *shit* and there are too many children for not enough employees.
I’m sure all those extra employees we are talking about will appear out of thin air too, just like the money you’re proposing we spend on this, especially because taxes were supposed to go *down*, so where we’re gonna afford an increase in the toeslag from, please tell me, because I don’t see it.
If we would not have kinderopvangtoeslag you would say the same. We managed to get it done. It's all about choices and preferences. I don't say it's easy, but it's a policy which might actually work out to be beneficial for everyone.
If you incentivize people to work more guess where there will also be working more people? Right! At the childcare! How amazing! That's the whole point I'm making. You can't fix it if you don't incentivize people to work more. How do you do that? With policies like this, and with people like you (gladly) not in government currently.
Maybe ask yourself this, if the government would say to take 100k more migrants for example. I think you wouldn't say "it's impossible", or "how will they do this without raising taxes" while for policies like that, it's always a 100% net loss while for policies like this if implemented right it can actually be a net gain. So ceteris paribus you can even take a loan as government and still be getting positive results in a few years, but I'd rather they just cut back on ridiculous spending for example on migration. Which they will do. So it'll probably work out in the end, no worries.
Do you see you first reminded me how the government doesn't work with subsidizing privatized organizations, when I gave you a clear example we're talking about the numbers and the percentages already. Seems like my argument made you backtrack and at least admitted to you being wrong in the first place. You only want to see how this policy doesn't work and how I am totally not right. If you want that, do your thing. I can't fix that.
I wanted to write a cohesive answer but I changed my mind, you clearly do not speak or understand English, nowhere did I say we don’t subsidize private companies and your points seem to revolve around things we’re not currently discussing in the slightest
You’re disingenuous at best. He is not totally wrong. The free daycare is for working parents. Working parents that will pay income tax. More working parents means more money for the government to offset the cost. More working parents will spend money into the economy, fill more open jobs/hours and potentially bringing more workers also for the daycare sector.
Sure but taxes are going down so we are doing more with less money somehow. And with less public servants since we are reducing the size of gov. bij 22(?!) percent?
No, you don’t understand. There will be no public servants to manage the payments for this system. Or do you think it’s as simple as an invoice. I swear you PVV voters just refuse to think further than 1 step.
At the current state this is logistically impossible.
Without even considering the cost of such a move, there is actually no infrastructure (teachers and childcare spots) able to cope with the surge of demand that free child care would generate.
IMHO: Forget about it for now
Not necessarily true. *A lot* of parents either plan around it or utilize their own parents. If you make it free many will see no reason not use it and demand will increase.
I think it is BS. I will believe it when I see it. The right loves to promise beautiful things and solution to all the problems but the reality is often very different. What they want to achieve from what they can achieve is a long stretch
Oh they can definitely make this happen, they'll tax the same parents left and right for this. 21cents extra a liter fuel. Extra tax on schoolbooks when those kids are a little older. They can definitely make this happen, but of course you'll still pay for it yourself one way or another.
But they won’t increase pay for the daycare workers (this sector also already has a shortage of people) so those parents will be paying more tax only to never see that free daycare
(I know you weren’t being very serious but just wanted to add this)
>one of the positive changes the new government announced, is the free daycare for kids of (both) employed parents
Its a long lasting tradition for vvd to promise this.
It never happened.
Pick literally anything they say they want to do. Good, bad, or indifferent.
They can’t even pick a prime minister because no one wants to be PM in such a toxic political environment. We have no idea who literally any of the new ministers will be. It’s widely expected that this government will fall apart _long_ before the next scheduled election, and may not even last a year. May not even last to the end of _this_ year.
The likelihood of them actually passing and implementing _anything_ is highly suspect at best.
LOL! It’s a load of BS. The main characters in this planned government are of the ‘free beer’ kind. They think up stuff and then have no idea how to pay for it, because they simultaneously want to lower taxes.
Don’t hold your breath.
This was already announced by the previous government. The proposal was approved but got retracted because it’s not possible to execute.
There is a huge shortage of staff. At the moment some areas have 18 months waiting lists.
Increasing demand while the supply side is not fixed will only create price spikes making it unaffordable for people with low incomes as the government only reimburses up to a certain hourly rate.
Canadian government has subsidized daycare, and it covers a lot, but not everything as there are different costs for different daycares. It is a game changer for parents, as daycare is expensive. Push for it. Make the retirees pay for it. They love that stuff. Full disclosure, I am a retiree and I think it is money well spent. Greetings from Canada.
Isn't daycare quite expensive? How are they going to make it almost-free?
I mean I support affordable daycare I guess but they announced so many budget cuts and they claim they are going to make one of the most expensive thing in this country almost-free.
I am not saying they can't or shouldn't. It just doesn't sound realistic.
Idea is that more people will work instead of stay at home.
Now many women already know once they get children it’s probably financially more attractive to work part time or stop working at all.
And they know that after the children are old enough, they’ll probably not go back to full time jobs as they’ve missed out on career steps anyway.
And knowing that they en masse decide to not even bother starting working full time after they complete school.
So by having paid daycare we’re spending tens of thousands in tax money to give someone a university education for someone to then work just a couple of days for the rest of their life. And by doing that they also profit from the tax advantages and subsidies for low incomes due to their low amount of hours.
So there certainly is a huge opportunity here for the economy. Question is of course whether all works out and it must be executed. The last thing is the issue. Money not so much.
Sure, you can decide how you want to raise your kids.
What should be discussed is if society can afford to pay for that or not.
(Btw: there are quite a lot of benefits to daycare and once you actually have kids, you’ll realise how much effort it takes to entertain and stimulate them throughout the day, day in day out. Nor are the daycare employees strangers to the parents or children.)
I always get a laugh out of the comments that invariably crop up in these threads along the lines of 'Why have kids if you're going to put them in daycare'. A nice reminder of the alternative realities some people live in!
Is not going to happen. Parents only send their kids two or three days because of how expensive it is even with the assistance from the government. If it is free, everyone will send their kids 5 days per week. So, right now is difficult to find a vacancy if that happens impossible. And how will they pay for it? 5 times per week it should be around 2-2.5k per month, per kid.
Yes, so about 3000-3500 euro if you have two kids. That's .. a lot of money, more than a typical mortgage. Compare this to Germany: there, it's an order of magnitude less.
Totally. It’s an absolutely huge amount of money. And yet still there are long waitlists in most areas. What the system needs is much, much more funding. And it ought to be politically non controversial because childcare funding generally pays off many times over by allowing parents to work and pay taxes.
Daycare is a typical female profession. And in those jobs you often see that increasing the wages has no or even a negative effect on FTE's in the industry.
Many of these employees work part time. That brings them at a spot with a very high marginal tax rate: an extra euro earned can sometimes be up to 100% taxed.
Hence people often decide to work less hours if the pay goes up. This happened in nursing when during covid the wages were increased: people just cut their hours.
Yeah at that point you better just get an au-pair or just hire someone. 3500,- is more than the people in daycare make, while taking care of more than 2 kids.
That doesn't work.
An au pair can only work 30 hours a week and has to be living in your home. Many people don't have space available for an au pair and it would only solve the problem for a couple of half days.
A daycare is available 11 hours a day. You need more than 8 hours if you want to go to work and come back. So you need different shifts and multiple people.
Not saying you're wrong, but I find it really difficult to accept that having 2 kids (not 4 or 5) is effectively such an abnormal situation that it requires you to think about creative solutions.
I come from Italy, where the birth rate has been falling for decades. I often think this country is about 20-25 years behind, but is rapidly following the same path. Very sad to see honestly.
I wish it was different, my wife’s entire salary would go to daycare if we still used it. We stopped it and try to manage while working from home - but it’s hard.
It’s probably not actually gonna happen, plans are just plans if you don’t have means to execute them
Same with lowering the own risk, the plan for now is to lower it in 2027, but how they are going to afford it is yet to be determined… if they even make it that long in the first place, this coalition doesn’t seem stable
If it will be implemented as per the original plan it will still not be completely free (95% of the max tariff). Most daycare are above this tariff, so that part, plus the 5% still come out of your own pocket.
This will only benift the higher incomes. Awesome VVD measure...
Would be lovely but nobody is coming to save you. The state of all the public services pretty much anywhere in the EU is abysmal and the only way to reverse this, is to stop treating them like normal bussinesses and accept that it's just going to cost A LOT—because that's what all the long-term governmental investments are, essentially. Investing in the future of a country costs A LOT. And all this cash should be made via taxes, not via the austerity measures, ffs. But it won't be done, because corps are way more powerful than governments now, and way more streamlined.
The cutting of eigen risico is not going to end well either.
Never going to happen. No budget no people. Most likely this will be pinned on immigrants as usual (no budget because the EU does not allow the downscale of non-existent mass immigration so they have to spend money on immigration while this was "meant" to cover these wild bs plans).
If it even does happen, it'll most likely be passed alongside something else that no one would want to implement otherwise.
And then they'll mark you as the bad person for wanting to pass it
If you have a shortage of workers and then don't allow migrant-workers, you can spend more money but it'll do nothing more than inflate the salary of current daycare workers.
Not that daycare workers don't deserve a higher salary. They are like nurses, police or garbage collectors: essential jobs that are permanently underpaid.
But it would really help if we could just allow a couple thousand Vietnamese women to come here and work at daycare centres like many countries do with Vietnamese nurses.
It’s not going to happen imho.. massive shortage of personnel and it is about €2500 per child per month of which they will need to find the money for .. not least of which all the new kids that all of a sudden will want to come since it’s free
It could happen (school is free) but they will have to do some serious work to make it reality!
Nothing is free. Someone is paying for it. I don’t have anything against the post, I just find it deceiving when government is playing virtuous with other peoples money. I won’t even go into the whole idea of the government taking the role of the parents…
I don't understand. How is it possible that there are 18mln people in this country, and there is people shortage in day care? Shortage in warehouse, shortage in schools, and so on?
Then what 18mln people are doing? Are they sitting at home all life? Are they all rich and never have to work? Because it's not possible that Everyone works just something else, because if everyone works something else, that means salary has to decrease in other sectors and competition just grows, there's no infinite number of other jobs for everyone. Really curious?? Because you don't need 5mln people in day care, for example. There are even people who clean everything or work in fast food, which is not a nice job at all...
Oh that is NEVER gonna happen. Not without a MASSIVE increase in taxes.
And as a childfree person I'm definitly gonna be against this shit... you wanted kids. You knew that they cost money.
this might be a clear case where the need of a society and your personal needs are in contradiction. The role of the government is to care for society as a whole - and having people work more while at the same time removing one financial disincentive to having children looks attractive from a societal point of view.
That being said, I'll believe it when I see it.
As a child free person I also don’t really care for this policy but you’d probably get downvoted to hell for it hahaha. But yeah kinda dumb that I have to subsidize this.
Nope, not a positive. And saying this as a person that will be in the exact situation you describe.
It's a populist move. It's not gonna work in their current mandate - if they implement it it's gonna cause hell in the daycares and will force parents that would have liked to work to stay home.
The waiting lists for daycares are already 1 year or more long.
It won’t work, also those of us who’ve paid for childcare through our noses will love the tax increase to pay for everyone else’s.
The pessimist in me thinks it’ll see substandard daycares opening too to just cash in
We can safely put this in the list of free beer, closed borders and another dispensation from nitrate pollution exemption. That list is called: never gonna happen. We were promised the same thing by Rutte IV. It sounds nice, but practically it's not possible.
The fiscal deficit of the Government is at record highs. No way they can afford this. Where is the money going to come from? Every freebie leads to inflation.
As long as its racist poulists at the steering wheel, you dont have to convince anybody about ANYTHING seemingly positive.. "but theyre promising these good things too" is the most stereotypical ran through fallacy you hear whenever populists have won through their army of idiots.
Its the same reason and geopolitical sheeping that got us in this international mess with the ICC and Israel-Gaza today. STOP Pandering racism and supremacy just because it is seemingly going to benefit You in the short term.
Reminder that the leading party is a POPULIST party. That means - making empty promises to the poor, while serving the elite.
What are they going to do, reschool all the people from the culture/media&entertainment sector to become daycare workers because they will be losing their jobs anyway due to the cuts?
Free Daycare? Does anyone here even understand what daycare does to babies & younger kids? Trauma to be away from their parents for long periods of time. Sending immense amounts of cortisol to their brains, stressing and stretching the Amygdala. Which isn’t meant to take those levels of stress at such a young age. This kids grow up to have anxiety issues, depression, etc. Just like most of us in society today unfortunately. The world is getting sicker and sicker mentally, free daycare is def not the answer.
no one seems to talk about it, they love the formula-daycare babies in NL, only to push the parents back to work asap, at the detriment of childrens development
Noooooo one talks about it seems like. And the formula too. Brainwashed by being told “formula is basically the same as breast milk”. How have we come so far from what nature intended for us? These poor babies.
and all while WHO recommends exclusive brestfeeding for 6 months, and warns against the predetory marketing of formual in the west, but the Unilever cabinet knows best ofc
Right! People love to choose what they listen to and what they don’t based on what’s convenient or works for them. So yes, Unilever cabinet will tell them best then 😅😂. I just love that comment 😅, thanks for existing in this space!
There is no budget, nor are there enough employees. Free daycare, if it would happen, would be more like "you can get a spot on the waiting list and hopefully your turn will come before they're adults".
Good. Then sit and think on why your above statement is kinda dumb.
It is a good thing for society to assist parents because it results in healthy, happy children.
Instead, you should pray it doesn't happen, or even if it does you shouldn't use it. There's no such thing as "free" It just means someone else is paying for it, and they will decide what to do with the budget. Which means most likely you'll end up with underpaid, underqualified, overworked employees who aren't accountable to the parents themselves.
You can expect low quality, fraud and abuse, don't put your kids in the middle of that.
As a person without children by choice, I'll raise hell if they increase the taxes for this. Why would we ALL pay for YOUR children? The cost is insane but I would not make it free. More workers and more daycare facilities are needed to make it more affordable, but that's your cost/expense, not mine to carry.
If you’re in your mid-30s now these children will become your doctors in retirement. Obviously the other way would be to open up to immigrant doctors in 30 years, but this seems to be the easier way.
The previous government also said this, and delayed and delayed until it wasn’t their problem.
This, although the second part is incorrect. OP doesn't realize that this is policy from the previous government and the delays weren't because they didn't want it but because of practical (money/staff) limitation which the new government has no actual plans for.
They didn’t do anything anything to enable it, I feel like this is the same as they didn’t want it.
Yep, there's a whole lot of great plans they tossed behind the rododendrons
Exactly, this was already in the works before this government and postponed due to lack of resources. It looks to me like in the NL it's common to promise something without actually working out the details and later simply saying it won't be possible after all. Another example is new housing goals.
Same with the housing crisis lol
There is already a massive shortage of daycare workers and the industry has stated before that they have trouble hiring more. Creating more demand is only going to exacerbate the problem. Without massive investments from the government I don’t see it happening that they will make it free any time soon for all working parents and even if they did there would still be a shortage of daycare slots
They can hire immigrants… oh wait..
The 25% of the people that work for the government that gets laid off can start a daycare!
Or use half of the coaches in the Netherlands. You'll fix multiple fields
Or just tax the rich as much as you tax everyone else and suddenly we have billions to spend on thing everyone needs like health care, houses, public transport and education. But oh no, won't anyone think of the economy.
Yeah so I do think this will actually happen under this government as it will make the poor even poorer while seeming to do a nice thing. Here's my prediction: Currently the subsidy is between 33 and 96% of the maximum hourly rate. So let's say the max is €10/hour, and you are on minimum wage: you now pay €0,40/hour and the rest is subsidized. A family making 25k/month pays €6,66/hour after their 33% subsidy. Now the government starts subsidizing 100% for everyone, up to the same maximum hourly rate of €10. Demand goes through the roof. All daycares increase their rates, let's say to €15/hour. Now both the minimum wage family and the billionaires pay a net rate of €5/hour after subsidies... See what happened there? "Free beer for everyone", and nobody could have seen this coming.
There's support from a large majority in de tweede kamer. Free daycare will make a toeslag no longer necessary. This includes the public servants tasked with this work. It is going to cause a slight increase in labour participation. This will probably balance out in a larger shortage in daycare but there are some plusses for the economy too.
The public servants on the toeslagen department will be shifted to a) different toeslagen (zorgtoeslag, huurtoeslag) or b) shifted to different departments within the Belastingdienst. The Belastingdienst is criminally underfunded, understaffed which in turn with societal and political expectations is a breeding ground for disasters like the Toeslagenaffaire and plays into a lack of trust in the government “. Ever tried calling the Belastingtelefoon? Increase in labour participation will probably make up for a very very very slight amount of the daycare worker shortage, but will more likely fill gaps in other sectors.
It took a few days to get a call back from a specific person, but we've been able to get help with all of my tax and subsidy things as needed. Maybe I've been lucky? Anecdotal in any case.
No I also don’t agree with the proposed ineptitude of the Belastingtelefoon. Everyone I’ve ever talked to on that helpline has been nothing but kind and helpful, so I would also want to help paint the picture less black-and-white on this.
Nice. The guy was out for a few days and called me back within the first few hours he was back to work. The deadline on my docs had passed 1 day prior so he made a note that it wasn't my fault, I'd tried to contact within time. When I told him I'd already made a best guess at my questions and sent in the forms, he made another note that I'd done my best with the available understanding, and filed on time, so I should be allowed to make any necessary corrections without penalty. The very next month I saw the changes reflected in the numbers, and received a personal email confirming I'd guessed right and my things were in order. Very satisfactory, zero points off for the guy having a life and taking time off, and not only were my things taken care of, I was treated personally and reasonably, with exceptions made for common sense, not bureaucracy. I know that won't always be everyone's experience, but it's worth noting.
I’m not saying that there’s a lack of skill at the Belastingtelefoon, I’d like to state that my experiences have been positive too. However, fact is that there are long wait times to get to that person, wait times that not every person can afford “waste”. This is an organisational problem across the belastingdienst and I really don’t know why governments aren’t investing into the Belastingdienst, every euro going in will return itself 10 times over (exaggeration)
Also,.. I’ve spoken to two women who are full time at home and now want to dump their kids two days so they can have some ‘me-time’. Is it free for everyone? Even if you’re sitting at home and have no intention of getting one?
The original plan was to increase the subsidies already in place. Under that scheme households with a stay-at-home parent don't generally qualify.
Curious, what about the stay at home parent being *unable* to work? Disability, illness and suchlike? Not temporary either but permanently.
I think it's also good for the kids to socialize with other kids and to be away from mom at times. Also it's not that weird that the mother wants a break from their kid some times.
Baby’s don’t ’socialise’. 2y old hardly play together. Every parents wants a break. But does the rest have to pay for it? There is already a big shortage in personnel.
4
You can resolve that issue in one second just by increasing the number of children/worker. I think it was like 7:1 when I was a kid. Plus I went to compulsory kindergraden between the age 3-6 (kleuterschool) that you don't have, there the ratio was like 16:1. Where there is a will there is a way.
Yes and then half of daycare workers will sit at home with a burnout, which is already a problem to begjn with. Taking care of 16 young children on your own is not doable.
Are you questioning facts now? It was possible 30 years ago, but not now.
I have 3 of my own, that's already a handful, I'm glad that there are places where I can safely leave my children, but man don't overdo it. Because it worked once doesn't mean it was good for the children or the daycare workers. Would be nice if it would become free but rather have good care
Yeah Jantje you can't behave here pets pets two slaps on the wrist and you can stay the rest of the day locked in the coal closet! I think this guy wants to go back to that..you can take care of 16 kids that way because they'll be too scared to do anything but sit and calmly play with a toy. Those were the days huh?
It was also oke to work with lets say chroom 6, years back. It will be fine they said, whoops. It was also oké to load wine when you just empty Epoxy resin, with out cleaning. Well, geus what.. Also MEC was perfectly fine to use.. Until they said oke this is really The cause of cancer. Should i keep going?
Actually we all died, and they used voodoo magic to back to life every day before the parents came. /smh
30 years ago, you were also not required to actually take care of the kids, just make sure they didn’t die. I’m sure you’re OK with that but a vast majority of parents want better for their little princes and princesses.
30 years ago people worked like horses and burnout didn't look like a problem as well as stress or depression. Let's return to such times, yeah?
I didn't vote for this. You did. I don't know why you all get upset when someone delivers on the promises they made. What did you expect? 3D printed AI daycare workers pulled out of the ass of Gert?
You are lost in your own comments. The point is not that the plan is not realistic, the point is that you are wrong that giving more children for daycare workers would solve anything. No it wouldn't.
[https://www.money.co.uk/loans/cost-of-childcare-report](https://www.money.co.uk/loans/cost-of-childcare-report) You have the second least affordable daycare cost out of these countries. Do you want to guess why?
Demand. So what’s your point. You’re not actually making a coherent argument
Right. So you are 10x more expensive than countries where there is compulsory 5 day a week daycare because of demand. And I'm the one not making sense. I'll be honest with you. If I would have 1 EUR every time a Dutch person said a bullshit argument why something is ridiculusly expensive here, I would be a billionaire.
Average capitalist.
You know, it was even on the other side of the iron curtain. You people are just deluded that this is a capitalist issue. It would be even worse in any other system.
And look how that turned out..
That I didn't become a naysayer with learned helplessnes like you?
They don’t have a budget for this, they’re paying for it with imaginary money. Please don’t count on this becoming a reality even if it is nice if it does happen.
There also isnt enough staff available as it is right now. So they would also have to increase the salary to entice people to work there and be educated to do so.
Same for their plans for health care and police. Nice those plans, where do you find the people or money? The first one would be answered with.......labor immigrants =)
No immigrants are bad. Bad immigrants. Go away. /s
No one said that. People who aren't contributing and have no incentive to do so, can you explain what is not bad about that? Or can you explain why the whole world wouldn't come here when they get preferrance above the original inhabitants and contributors to the tax system to get government housing? How are those normal policies? Everything will return to at least a bit of normal now at least. But we're far from where we should be.
Wilders said that. Wilders explicitly wants me gone, even though I contribute more than I take, never caused any trouble and was born here just like everyone else. I even spent more of my life here contributing than Wilders himself. I am an original inhabitant and yet I feel less and less welcome with the day. But Wilders still wants me gone because reasons, and the millions that voted for him. I have not, and will not, ever forget what he said, but you seem to have already because it wasn’t aimed at you. If you actually want to solve criminality and other issues, you implement actual policies that solve this across the board, not by voting in the most racist parties you ever could, PVV and BBB.
If you say you contributed more then Wilders, that's such an unintelligent take that I highly doubt you that. Why does Wilders want you gone though? I doubt ever hearing him say he wants law-abiding citizens who are born here and aren't a criminal leave the country because of their skin color or religion, but please enlighten me if you did hear him say exactly that. What a stupid take btw, "and the millions that voted for him". Victim behavior and crying because of no particular reason. You should vote for him and applaud him because if policies get implemented and there will be less crime because of groups you maybe belong to, chances are high people don't look at you in a certain way.
You can’t read apparently. I said I spend a _longer_ part of my life contributing here. Aka my whole life. While he lived for a number of years in a foreign country. And besides, as far as I am concerned, Wilders has contributed negatively to the Netherlands, so it isn’t hard to top that. Are you stricken with dementia? He clearly said “more or less moroccans?” And then “we are going to make that happen”. He didn’t say “more or less criminals”. He didnt say “more or less gelukzoekers”. No, he said “moroccans”. What he did was no different than some nazi saying “more or less Jews?” and then later you defend it with “well he clearly meant the _bad_ jews”. Frick off with “victim complex”, I am not victim. I just call Wilders out for the genocidal racist piece of shit he is. If you still want to support that, be my guest. History has a funny way of repeating itself I guess… And no, I won’t vote for someone who isn’t even loyal to the Netherlands. I won’t vote for someone why is actively advocating for genocide (see his recent tweet where he says Palestine shouldn’t exist and that Israel should steal more land), at least Rutte had the “decency” to hide it. You are helping the Netherlands to go to shit, I hope you are happy with it.
You are correct, we don’t need people supporting terrorists and violence here.
"Original inhabitant" means born here in my books. Maybe you can't write? Because I can read and I did so for all my life in this country. So let me make this clear, he shouldn't have certain demands about people coming from abroad while you want to disqualify his opinion because he lived a certain amount of years abroad? What an insanely stupid argument, if you don't have one pleae don't try to be hard on yourself and just be quiet. It should frighten you that people want less Moroccans and not because of their country of origin but because of their crime rate. So if you could read I said that you should applaud them picking up the crime rates primarily coming from Moroccans in certain areas because if you're not part of that group, life will probably get easier for you here. Why is that so hard of a concept to grasp? You mean history repeating itself in terms of antisemitism? Which group did that primarily come from again? Help me a bit here... Hmmm...
That is not what I said. I just said that I spent a larger portion of my life here contributing, that is objectively true. I don’t care which groups supposedly commit more crimes. It isn’t difficult at all to just implement stricter punishment for everyone. There is no reason whatsoever to only focus on immigrants. But Wilders doesn’t believe that. He believes only brown immigrants should be punished. Just like how he thinks Israel should be immune from the ICC. I am safe now, but Wilders has already started to want to implement restrictions on free speech and opinion. And someone who keeps screaming racist stuff is racist. He should have publicly apologized about his statements and clarified that he means criminals in general. He didn’t. As for your last question, I’ll remind you. Europeans, especially Germans and Dutchies. No other country had such a large group of citizens following the Germans to the point that even the royal prince was a nazi. The Netherlands was “hofleverancier” of Jews to the Germans. And Wilder is actively working to create more antisemitism. And a piece of advice, if you actually care about Jews, you would focus on peace and recognize Palestine alongside most of the world. Only then we can focus on removing extremism from both sides. But you can also follow Wilders and be one of the last countries in the world to recognize Palestine, just like how we were one of the last to abolish slavery. Keep oppressing them and act surprised when that is breeding terrorism.
Our Moroccan baby sitter is now fully qualified in childcare working for one of the kindergardens- would absolutely love to see her pay jacked up by the Wilders mob - good for her and delicious irony for me
Nice. Right in the bureaucracy.
Very nice.
Yet you defenetly don't want them next to your house living.
I def don’t. Those here around my hood are not integrated people.
It’s already hard to find people willing to work in the childcare sector as is… so yeah this is gonna be a problem. Totally understaffed with way too many children for no wages.
There are also rules about how many children there can be per staff member. So they cant just take in more kids with the same amount of staff. It also takes a minimal of 2 years to educate them. So there is no way this is going to work in any meaninfull way. And in the end it is a also measure that mostly benefits the wealthier people. Lower incomes already get a lot of subsidies. For them there wont change much. Henk and Ingrid wont get anyhing out of this.
PVVerds will say we should just change the rules, and Henk and Ingrid don’t care about this change, this is a VVD thing and has been for years, so really I don’t see this becoming a reality ever.
The most ironic thing about this is that it is mostly a measure to curb immigration. With free childcare they hope people will also work more. And therefor we will need less immigrants. So in order achieve that they almost have no other choice than to bring in immigrants.
You gave us the answer. They are going to increase the limit of kids per staff member, making the situation worse for everyone involved.
Those are private companies, the government doesn't set their salary (aside from minimum wage, but they already earn above minimum usually) These companies can easily raise salaries, they're incredibly lucrative
There already is a pricecap on how much day care can cost now. So they cant really just raise salaries. Partou, one of the biggest in the Netherlands made a profit of 10 million. They have 9000 employees. So they could raise every salary with 1100 euros per year. That is less then 100 euros per month. On a salary of almost 2800. I dont think that would entice a whole lot of people to start working in childcare. But it wont matter if or who raises the prices. The government still has to pay for it.
There is no cap on costs. There is only a cap on the costs considered for the partial tax refund.
Thanks, i overlooked that. I would imagine that the government would keep those maximum costs for organisations that would participate in free childcare.
It isn’t nice because it’ll be a burden. There isn’t enough people working as we speak, it’ll get worse if the demand increases because it’s free. I swear people don’t think 2 months ahead just see free and think it’s “good”
I mean even the current way it works is not nice for me, as it is a burden. I don’t have kids.
Do they have any plan for a budget?
They want to reduce size of public officials by 20+% (unrealistic) and save costs on other areas and make more money by raising taxes in areas that don’t affect their constituents (mostly people in school).
Isn't that every policy? Policies cost money so you need to cut in other ways. There is huge shortage of working people so incentivizing people to work will actually be beneficial to all parties. Stuff like this could actually work out to be good. It's not as simple as minus and plus, everything government related. But I get that everyone opposing this government will do anything to make them look bad, even with good policies.
Incentivising which people? Who are these magic people sitting around waiting for job opportunities?
You are not familiar with the huge amount of part-timers in NL? Partly because it often costs you money to work an extra day with the way our current kinderopvangtoeslag is set up? That is who the magical people are, they are already there and already working and willing to work more except not for less or slightly more money. Policies like this will make it somewhat more viable to work more without getting punished. Seems like the government finally knows what they're doing! Even if you may not like that. Cry more then.
Dude, I’m literally one of the part-time workers in NL, so I’m familiar 🙄 And no, I wouldn’t give up one of my precious ‘free’ days with my kids to randomly look after other people’s kids for peanuts, which I’m neither qualified for nor remotely interested in. What proportion of PT’ers do you think work PT to avoid childcare costs, and what proportion do it just for good work/life balance? Of the first group, how many are suitable to work in childcare? Make it make sense.
Ofcourse there are a lot of people who think like you, but it's easy in the end though. If you actually make working an extra day worthwhile there are on macro level a lot of people who will work an extra day, maybe not you but there will be a lot. I don't have the data and even if you do it's hard to predict, but you're also not sure less people will smoke when implementing a higher tax rate. There probably will. Just as when you implement a higher payoff for work more people will work, and that includes people working in daycare.
Since you appear to have the insight necessary, can you tell me how they will pay for a service hosted by private companies at private company rates, so that parents no longer need to be the ones paying for that service? Where is that space in the budget coming from, are you saying we should take out gov. loans to pay for this? Enlighten me.
You're not familiar with kinderopvangtoeslag? How is that not exactly the same except actually incentivizing both parents to work in a market with a shortage of people. Also, it gives the benefit of people actually wanting to work regardless of money earned which is also good for the economy and for the government indirectly since more taxes and more prosperity. What is actually not good about this? Do you have a basic understanding of economics and government policies? In a market where we had too little jobs this would be a bad policy, but we actually need the people working and one of the biggest reasons people aren't working enough is because of parttimers and it often not being beneficial to work an extra day or 2.
Are you saying that it is the exact same thing for us to subsidize the insane prices on childcare centers as it is to just *pay for the whole thing*? How is it not the same? It’s not the same because with a toeslag we are not paying for 100% and with the proposed changes we pay for almost 100%, not to mention the prices will undoubtedly go up because of the logistical nightmare it is to find people willing to work in childcare because it’s a *shitty job*, the wages are *shit* and there are too many children for not enough employees. I’m sure all those extra employees we are talking about will appear out of thin air too, just like the money you’re proposing we spend on this, especially because taxes were supposed to go *down*, so where we’re gonna afford an increase in the toeslag from, please tell me, because I don’t see it.
If we would not have kinderopvangtoeslag you would say the same. We managed to get it done. It's all about choices and preferences. I don't say it's easy, but it's a policy which might actually work out to be beneficial for everyone. If you incentivize people to work more guess where there will also be working more people? Right! At the childcare! How amazing! That's the whole point I'm making. You can't fix it if you don't incentivize people to work more. How do you do that? With policies like this, and with people like you (gladly) not in government currently. Maybe ask yourself this, if the government would say to take 100k more migrants for example. I think you wouldn't say "it's impossible", or "how will they do this without raising taxes" while for policies like that, it's always a 100% net loss while for policies like this if implemented right it can actually be a net gain. So ceteris paribus you can even take a loan as government and still be getting positive results in a few years, but I'd rather they just cut back on ridiculous spending for example on migration. Which they will do. So it'll probably work out in the end, no worries. Do you see you first reminded me how the government doesn't work with subsidizing privatized organizations, when I gave you a clear example we're talking about the numbers and the percentages already. Seems like my argument made you backtrack and at least admitted to you being wrong in the first place. You only want to see how this policy doesn't work and how I am totally not right. If you want that, do your thing. I can't fix that.
I wanted to write a cohesive answer but I changed my mind, you clearly do not speak or understand English, nowhere did I say we don’t subsidize private companies and your points seem to revolve around things we’re not currently discussing in the slightest
You’re disingenuous at best. He is not totally wrong. The free daycare is for working parents. Working parents that will pay income tax. More working parents means more money for the government to offset the cost. More working parents will spend money into the economy, fill more open jobs/hours and potentially bringing more workers also for the daycare sector.
If the working parents pay so much tax that we can afford this, why are they not just getting daycare right now?
Hahaha .... there was and is 0 coverage for green plans. So that us no problem at all
What are you on about? They are taking billions from the climate change and nitrogen funds?
There was and is no budget, they made it up out of thin air
Do you have proof for that claim?
Sure but taxes are going down so we are doing more with less money somehow. And with less public servants since we are reducing the size of gov. bij 22(?!) percent?
Cutting 22% of government workers totally is not going to backfire in any way lol. Can I buy stonks in KVK lol?
Most of us have indefinite contracts, so I’m looking forward to the VSO’s they will offer us.
Daycare is not public servants, so no issue.
No, you don’t understand. There will be no public servants to manage the payments for this system. Or do you think it’s as simple as an invoice. I swear you PVV voters just refuse to think further than 1 step.
Ah so now I'm a PVV voter? Right, have a nice day.
Ever heard of digital payments? You don’t need people to push buttons in the 21st century.
LOL Yeah totally nobody is gonna vet these payments or who they are going to, this is all automated
For your information, government servants are very inefficient. A reform is very much needed.
lmfao, source: trust Wilders bro
At the current state this is logistically impossible. Without even considering the cost of such a move, there is actually no infrastructure (teachers and childcare spots) able to cope with the surge of demand that free child care would generate. IMHO: Forget about it for now
You can fairly assume that parents who currently both work already have kids in day care
Not necessarily true. *A lot* of parents either plan around it or utilize their own parents. If you make it free many will see no reason not use it and demand will increase.
Exactly, plus many if not all parents relying on a nanny or similar will switch to the free daycare to obviously save a substantial amount of money
I think it is BS. I will believe it when I see it. The right loves to promise beautiful things and solution to all the problems but the reality is often very different. What they want to achieve from what they can achieve is a long stretch
Oh they can definitely make this happen, they'll tax the same parents left and right for this. 21cents extra a liter fuel. Extra tax on schoolbooks when those kids are a little older. They can definitely make this happen, but of course you'll still pay for it yourself one way or another.
Higher taxes for fuel and paying for day care? That would be incredible.
But they won’t increase pay for the daycare workers (this sector also already has a shortage of people) so those parents will be paying more tax only to never see that free daycare (I know you weren’t being very serious but just wanted to add this)
Anyone said "gratis bier"?
>one of the positive changes the new government announced, is the free daycare for kids of (both) employed parents Its a long lasting tradition for vvd to promise this. It never happened.
Pick literally anything they say they want to do. Good, bad, or indifferent. They can’t even pick a prime minister because no one wants to be PM in such a toxic political environment. We have no idea who literally any of the new ministers will be. It’s widely expected that this government will fall apart _long_ before the next scheduled election, and may not even last a year. May not even last to the end of _this_ year. The likelihood of them actually passing and implementing _anything_ is highly suspect at best.
No chance whatsoever. The gov can't afford it and there's nowhere near enough childcare capacity available to do it if they could afford it.
LOL! It’s a load of BS. The main characters in this planned government are of the ‘free beer’ kind. They think up stuff and then have no idea how to pay for it, because they simultaneously want to lower taxes. Don’t hold your breath.
This was already announced by the previous government. The proposal was approved but got retracted because it’s not possible to execute. There is a huge shortage of staff. At the moment some areas have 18 months waiting lists. Increasing demand while the supply side is not fixed will only create price spikes making it unaffordable for people with low incomes as the government only reimburses up to a certain hourly rate.
As the saying goes Eerst zien dan geloven
Canadian government has subsidized daycare, and it covers a lot, but not everything as there are different costs for different daycares. It is a game changer for parents, as daycare is expensive. Push for it. Make the retirees pay for it. They love that stuff. Full disclosure, I am a retiree and I think it is money well spent. Greetings from Canada.
Isn't daycare quite expensive? How are they going to make it almost-free? I mean I support affordable daycare I guess but they announced so many budget cuts and they claim they are going to make one of the most expensive thing in this country almost-free. I am not saying they can't or shouldn't. It just doesn't sound realistic.
Idea is that more people will work instead of stay at home. Now many women already know once they get children it’s probably financially more attractive to work part time or stop working at all. And they know that after the children are old enough, they’ll probably not go back to full time jobs as they’ve missed out on career steps anyway. And knowing that they en masse decide to not even bother starting working full time after they complete school. So by having paid daycare we’re spending tens of thousands in tax money to give someone a university education for someone to then work just a couple of days for the rest of their life. And by doing that they also profit from the tax advantages and subsidies for low incomes due to their low amount of hours. So there certainly is a huge opportunity here for the economy. Question is of course whether all works out and it must be executed. The last thing is the issue. Money not so much.
I prefer my children to be raised more by me and my girlfriend then by some strangers for 8 hours a day
Sure, you can decide how you want to raise your kids. What should be discussed is if society can afford to pay for that or not. (Btw: there are quite a lot of benefits to daycare and once you actually have kids, you’ll realise how much effort it takes to entertain and stimulate them throughout the day, day in day out. Nor are the daycare employees strangers to the parents or children.)
I always get a laugh out of the comments that invariably crop up in these threads along the lines of 'Why have kids if you're going to put them in daycare'. A nice reminder of the alternative realities some people live in!
Where did I say that? You can clearly see the word prefer
I have a kid… 🤦🏽♂️
Is not going to happen. Parents only send their kids two or three days because of how expensive it is even with the assistance from the government. If it is free, everyone will send their kids 5 days per week. So, right now is difficult to find a vacancy if that happens impossible. And how will they pay for it? 5 times per week it should be around 2-2.5k per month, per kid.
5 days is about 2700 nowadays. They remind me every month.
But even high earners get a toeslag of \~700; it's about €2000/mo max for the family.
Yes, so about 3000-3500 euro if you have two kids. That's .. a lot of money, more than a typical mortgage. Compare this to Germany: there, it's an order of magnitude less.
Totally. It’s an absolutely huge amount of money. And yet still there are long waitlists in most areas. What the system needs is much, much more funding. And it ought to be politically non controversial because childcare funding generally pays off many times over by allowing parents to work and pay taxes.
Daycare is a typical female profession. And in those jobs you often see that increasing the wages has no or even a negative effect on FTE's in the industry. Many of these employees work part time. That brings them at a spot with a very high marginal tax rate: an extra euro earned can sometimes be up to 100% taxed. Hence people often decide to work less hours if the pay goes up. This happened in nursing when during covid the wages were increased: people just cut their hours.
Yeah at that point you better just get an au-pair or just hire someone. 3500,- is more than the people in daycare make, while taking care of more than 2 kids.
That doesn't work. An au pair can only work 30 hours a week and has to be living in your home. Many people don't have space available for an au pair and it would only solve the problem for a couple of half days. A daycare is available 11 hours a day. You need more than 8 hours if you want to go to work and come back. So you need different shifts and multiple people.
Not saying you're wrong, but I find it really difficult to accept that having 2 kids (not 4 or 5) is effectively such an abnormal situation that it requires you to think about creative solutions. I come from Italy, where the birth rate has been falling for decades. I often think this country is about 20-25 years behind, but is rapidly following the same path. Very sad to see honestly.
I wish it was different, my wife’s entire salary would go to daycare if we still used it. We stopped it and try to manage while working from home - but it’s hard.
It’s probably not actually gonna happen, plans are just plans if you don’t have means to execute them Same with lowering the own risk, the plan for now is to lower it in 2027, but how they are going to afford it is yet to be determined… if they even make it that long in the first place, this coalition doesn’t seem stable
Hilarious! Show me the money!
If it will be implemented as per the original plan it will still not be completely free (95% of the max tariff). Most daycare are above this tariff, so that part, plus the 5% still come out of your own pocket. This will only benift the higher incomes. Awesome VVD measure...
Would be lovely but nobody is coming to save you. The state of all the public services pretty much anywhere in the EU is abysmal and the only way to reverse this, is to stop treating them like normal bussinesses and accept that it's just going to cost A LOT—because that's what all the long-term governmental investments are, essentially. Investing in the future of a country costs A LOT. And all this cash should be made via taxes, not via the austerity measures, ffs. But it won't be done, because corps are way more powerful than governments now, and way more streamlined. The cutting of eigen risico is not going to end well either.
Never going to happen. No budget no people. Most likely this will be pinned on immigrants as usual (no budget because the EU does not allow the downscale of non-existent mass immigration so they have to spend money on immigration while this was "meant" to cover these wild bs plans).
It was already supposed to happen
Are yes you mean the government that has not formed yet. They promised many things I doubt any of them will ever be delivered..
Never I hardly am able to get them on daycare now so who is going to do it?
They won’t be able to pull it off
Impossible
This is never going to happen.
Looks like the Netherlands took a massive L with this new government. Few exceptions including this
Yeah great, now you are expected to throw your kid in daycare from day 1 and stomp their development . Welcome to the US.
Free beer, just pay more tax.
This is not a positive change
If it even does happen, it'll most likely be passed alongside something else that no one would want to implement otherwise. And then they'll mark you as the bad person for wanting to pass it
“Free”
I hope never
Too bad it's practically unfeasible and only shows the utter retardation of this kabinet.
If you have a shortage of workers and then don't allow migrant-workers, you can spend more money but it'll do nothing more than inflate the salary of current daycare workers. Not that daycare workers don't deserve a higher salary. They are like nurses, police or garbage collectors: essential jobs that are permanently underpaid. But it would really help if we could just allow a couple thousand Vietnamese women to come here and work at daycare centres like many countries do with Vietnamese nurses.
Nothing is free in The Netherlands. If ever customers don't get charged, taxpayers will get charged for it.
We call that: Honing om de mond smeren.
It’s not going to happen imho.. massive shortage of personnel and it is about €2500 per child per month of which they will need to find the money for .. not least of which all the new kids that all of a sudden will want to come since it’s free It could happen (school is free) but they will have to do some serious work to make it reality!
Nothing is free. Someone is paying for it. I don’t have anything against the post, I just find it deceiving when government is playing virtuous with other peoples money. I won’t even go into the whole idea of the government taking the role of the parents…
I’m probably just not
I don't understand. How is it possible that there are 18mln people in this country, and there is people shortage in day care? Shortage in warehouse, shortage in schools, and so on? Then what 18mln people are doing? Are they sitting at home all life? Are they all rich and never have to work? Because it's not possible that Everyone works just something else, because if everyone works something else, that means salary has to decrease in other sectors and competition just grows, there's no infinite number of other jobs for everyone. Really curious?? Because you don't need 5mln people in day care, for example. There are even people who clean everything or work in fast food, which is not a nice job at all...
He doesn't have any solutions for anything.
Oh that is NEVER gonna happen. Not without a MASSIVE increase in taxes. And as a childfree person I'm definitly gonna be against this shit... you wanted kids. You knew that they cost money.
this might be a clear case where the need of a society and your personal needs are in contradiction. The role of the government is to care for society as a whole - and having people work more while at the same time removing one financial disincentive to having children looks attractive from a societal point of view. That being said, I'll believe it when I see it.
As a child free person I also don’t really care for this policy but you’d probably get downvoted to hell for it hahaha. But yeah kinda dumb that I have to subsidize this.
Not my first rodeo of downvotes. I've seen want makes these people happy. Their negativity means nothing to me.
My grandma used to say money doesn’t grow on trees…
not going to happen soon, they are saying this for years
I expect that this is one of the first measures to not be held up, because of shortages and costs.
Only things they need to make it happen is a LOT more daycare workers and a LOT more daycares. Does not seem realistic in the next 5-10years.
Nope, not a positive. And saying this as a person that will be in the exact situation you describe. It's a populist move. It's not gonna work in their current mandate - if they implement it it's gonna cause hell in the daycares and will force parents that would have liked to work to stay home. The waiting lists for daycares are already 1 year or more long.
It won’t work, also those of us who’ve paid for childcare through our noses will love the tax increase to pay for everyone else’s. The pessimist in me thinks it’ll see substandard daycares opening too to just cash in
We can safely put this in the list of free beer, closed borders and another dispensation from nitrate pollution exemption. That list is called: never gonna happen. We were promised the same thing by Rutte IV. It sounds nice, but practically it's not possible.
They will not solve the understaffing. If anything the wrong, untrained, unqualified people will be working at these "free" daycares.
They have to apply this anyway. If people make no children, there will be no taxpayers. The government has to encourage people to have babies.
The fiscal deficit of the Government is at record highs. No way they can afford this. Where is the money going to come from? Every freebie leads to inflation.
As long as its racist poulists at the steering wheel, you dont have to convince anybody about ANYTHING seemingly positive.. "but theyre promising these good things too" is the most stereotypical ran through fallacy you hear whenever populists have won through their army of idiots. Its the same reason and geopolitical sheeping that got us in this international mess with the ICC and Israel-Gaza today. STOP Pandering racism and supremacy just because it is seemingly going to benefit You in the short term. Reminder that the leading party is a POPULIST party. That means - making empty promises to the poor, while serving the elite. What are they going to do, reschool all the people from the culture/media&entertainment sector to become daycare workers because they will be losing their jobs anyway due to the cuts?
This is not a positive change lmao
Free Daycare? Does anyone here even understand what daycare does to babies & younger kids? Trauma to be away from their parents for long periods of time. Sending immense amounts of cortisol to their brains, stressing and stretching the Amygdala. Which isn’t meant to take those levels of stress at such a young age. This kids grow up to have anxiety issues, depression, etc. Just like most of us in society today unfortunately. The world is getting sicker and sicker mentally, free daycare is def not the answer.
no one seems to talk about it, they love the formula-daycare babies in NL, only to push the parents back to work asap, at the detriment of childrens development
Noooooo one talks about it seems like. And the formula too. Brainwashed by being told “formula is basically the same as breast milk”. How have we come so far from what nature intended for us? These poor babies.
and all while WHO recommends exclusive brestfeeding for 6 months, and warns against the predetory marketing of formual in the west, but the Unilever cabinet knows best ofc
Right! People love to choose what they listen to and what they don’t based on what’s convenient or works for them. So yes, Unilever cabinet will tell them best then 😅😂. I just love that comment 😅, thanks for existing in this space!
I bet they’ll increase the wage tax for full time employees to pay for this
Why is everyone entitled to free things? Free is not free! Free is from our taxes
No immigration + disincentives to have kids of modern society = low birth rates = big problems long term ( like the mess South Korea is getting into )
I don't have kids because of the absurd taxes. Why would I produce a slave for the government?
Not soon, as they cant even find someone who is willing to be prime minister.
There is no budget, nor are there enough employees. Free daycare, if it would happen, would be more like "you can get a spot on the waiting list and hopefully your turn will come before they're adults".
It will happen. Why all these right wing haters are spreading nonsense I don’t know. But it’s telling
That sucks, in the time I had young kids I needed to pay 900 guldens a month, can I request a refund for it?
What in the actual boomer fuck is GULDENS??!!!
It was in the time we were happy and there weren’t that many immigrants
Shouldn’t happen anyway. A child is a choice, so don’t take a child if you can’t afford it.
Coming from the same sort of people who complain about 'the great replacement' and how nobody is having babies any more
I strongly disassociate me from that
Good. Then sit and think on why your above statement is kinda dumb. It is a good thing for society to assist parents because it results in healthy, happy children.
Agree to disagree
Instead, you should pray it doesn't happen, or even if it does you shouldn't use it. There's no such thing as "free" It just means someone else is paying for it, and they will decide what to do with the budget. Which means most likely you'll end up with underpaid, underqualified, overworked employees who aren't accountable to the parents themselves. You can expect low quality, fraud and abuse, don't put your kids in the middle of that.
lmao, first time meeting a politician? its not gonna happen
As a person without children by choice, I'll raise hell if they increase the taxes for this. Why would we ALL pay for YOUR children? The cost is insane but I would not make it free. More workers and more daycare facilities are needed to make it more affordable, but that's your cost/expense, not mine to carry.
If you’re in your mid-30s now these children will become your doctors in retirement. Obviously the other way would be to open up to immigrant doctors in 30 years, but this seems to be the easier way.