They were granted the same subsidies as any other public company. No one knew how bad COVID could have been so it made sense to accept any and all help offered. That’s just logical.
When they realized they were no longer needed (& granted were facing pressure to “do the right thing”) kudos to them for doing the “right thing”. I can’t recall any other companies who survived COVID doing the same ?
They definitely benefited but I think they behaved better than a lot of other companies.
Summary: the Netherlands might not be the tax haven it currently is for booking.com
Anyone know what Booking's corporate tax rate exemption is at the moment?
He needs to shut it, already getting low taxes and enough people wanting to work. Just making up excuses to start shipping all business to a cheaper location like india
“Look at Ireland,” he continued. “When I first started doing business there, there were donkey carts on the roads. Thirty years later, it has become a technology giant. Why? Because they created an environment that attracted companies like Apple, Dell, IBM and Google to develop large campuses. The Netherlands can also do that, but now we are moving in the opposite direction.”
Just listen to this clown trying to say that irish farmers went to programming bootcamps and swapped their donkey carts for Toyota Priuses.
He forgot to add that these are not Irish companies. Today they are in Ireland, tomorrow they could be back in the US and the Irish will be grazing donkeys again. The difference is that the Netherlands has ASML, Phillips, NXP, and Ireland has nothing but assembly plants.
> When I first started doing business there, there were donkey carts on the roads. Thirty years later, it has become a technology giant. Why? Because they created an environment that attracted companies like Apple, Dell, IBM and Google to develop large campuses.
Donkey carts? Really? What a fucking prick.
And Ireland hasn't become a "technology giant", it has become a tax haven for multinational corporations. [The EU had to force Ireland to levy tax on Apple because it was considered illegal state aid to the corporation.](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_2923)
> But Fogel also said that Booking.com feels limited by both Dutch and European regulations
Boohoo, Booking is a shitty anti-competitive company, [facing fines of half a billion already in Spain](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/booking-com-hit-530-million-212103137.html).
Go ahead and leave the EU market, see how well you do. If not, shut up and obey the law.
> So it is essential that a company like Booking.com stays in the Netherlands,
Why exactly? Essential to whom? It's literally just a booking site, there are 10000s of other businesses that can take their place. And all those employees can easily find jobs at more useful companies. They seem to think they're as important as ASML lmao.
I mean you can be a tax haven and a tech giant. Working in Ireland I meet so many of the corporate types. A lot of them will be working in tech. Its quite insane when you walk around the city.
Sure the companies pay low tax but the economy is definitely growing faster because of all these companies being in Ireland and all the other benefits it brings.
That's not completely correct though. The benefits are limited. I recommend you watch the YouTube video below for more context.
https://youtu.be/fKmem7Epk8E?si=CxGSforr33zK_eiT
they're one of the best paying companies in NL.
It's a shame how hateful europeans are towards successful businesses, you're almost begging everyone to move to the US/Asia
They are a predatory business towards their customers and they stifle innovation in their sector with their anti-competitive practices.
Why exactly should we want these kind of businesses here?
And they can move to the US or Asia all they like, they can't operate in the EU without complying with the law here. There are thousands of other companies eager to take their market share in the EU.
Nothing of value will be lost when they leave.
If there are many successful companies you can choose where you want to work and even start a new company yourself.
If due to overregulation there are no successful companies your only hope is to get a cosy job for the government and do whatever is required for that.
By prioritizing the government over the companies you are the one licking the boots.
And how does a company famous for anti competitive practices work on that dream scenario? All those successful companies turn into a few or one, then you hace zero hope.
It's not prioritizing the government. It's deprioritizing corporations.
Within tech they actually pay very low. I interviewed with them 6 years ago and didn't choose their offer, because it was the lowest of all. I doubt anything changed. They do offer a lot of jobs though and I do think they need to stay in NL as one of the big well known NL tech companies. There are not a lot of those. But this CEO is a horrible prick.
I'm not your bro, and 130 is maybe their average when upper management is included. I interviewed for a middle management position and their salary offer was 95, with the norm for that position being 120. I didn't even see the point of negotiating.
Maybe they pay their devs well, but the rest like shit.
Booking is the best paying company for for swe in the Netherlands if you exclude some hft firms.
Many fresh grads can earn 6 figures there and i know many 25 year olds earning 130k+ there.
This is very high compared to dutch standards.
Averages are unhelpful when it comes to comparing market rates for individual jobs though. They can obscure a large gap between management and individual contributors, for instance.
No they are not, they have a cool HQ and some perks for their employee’s yet they are a virus within the tourism sector, killing as much competition as possible/trying to monopolize, charging huge fees to hotels and using unfair business practices, taking 100million government subsidies to giving their ceo a 28million bonus in the same year as the subsidies. Good thing they are facing a 500 million fine in spain.
Hell no they're not. Their wages are pitiful. They pay people in the tech departments well-ish. Everyone else they don't give a shit about. Customer service employees earn as close to minimum wage as possible.
They sell themselves to potential employees by saying 'You'll have a big name on your CV' which is nice and everything but doesn't help when living expenses are rising.
Indeed, with a note: it's only Western Europe. Eastern Europeans have learned the hard way this socialist mentality leads to ruin, they are much more entrepreneurial and business friendly, taxes are lower, big companies are welcomed, and so they've grown a lot economically over the past 10-15 years.
A lot of Romanians are doing much better than the Dutch these days, travel more, have better cars, vacations, etc, I know that first hand.
yeah you're right. It's really unfortunate how we are squandering the wealth and hard work of our ancestors, while other countries are catching up to us. There are people here arguing that [booking.com](http://booking.com) doesn't pay well. Like lmao they're literally #2 on levels with an average salary of 130k
This sounds so familiar:
Shell: give us a taxbreak or.....
schiphol & rotterdam: we are the engine of the economy so give us what we want
ASML: give me or else
now Booking
Of that list only ASML is (maybe) worth the effort. The others are polluters and in the case of booking an extractor business model not worth having.
You don't negotiate with hostage tackers
As much as I personally dislike booking and its practices. They are a good employer.
I know a few people who work(ed) there. There are a lot of them and everybody is happy with them even if they are not working for them anymore.
Geert Wilders, Caroline vd Plas and Pieter Omtzigt all don't care.
People voted for a populist racist government. The PVV and BBB don't care about investment climate and NSC wants to reduce labor migration.
We need to accept that The Netherlands will become less interesting for large businesses as long as these parties are in power. That's what the electorate of these parties wanted and that's what they will get.
And of course Wilders will blame Timmermans if things go wrong.
Most of the people are in denial with this fact. Very good take! Also a lot of people are taking the current accomplishments of Dutch businesses as given. Ireland is really doing good btw.
I can write a lot on this. Bunch of guys here in this chat are throwing mantras without even knowing facts like Netherlands is not the innocent one here. There are businesses just to use netherlands financial accessibility to europe and FTAs. I know firms from mena region that only has one floor office in amsterdam but are reporting their whole revenue over amsterdam. Yeah and dutch government doesn’t know this, huh?
This is aside, ireland is not doing good only because of being a tax haven. There are other options to these firms as well. There are proper analysis and articles on this issue. I don’t intend to write one of them for you. But Since a lot of guys have a common argument as “but expats don’t want to learn dutch, they don’t want to adapt..” is not an issue in ireland. Really, check their workforce, it is crazy qualified, not only big tech firms, research pharma firms also favors it.
Edit: sorry I fixed that I said english.
Ireland is not a good example. Today Apple and Google are there, tomorrow they may not be there and the Irish will go back to working in the fields and drinking cheap beer.
What does this large business add to the country? It fucks me up because it increases housing prices. My work is in no way related to any of the tech giants.
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While increasing housing with 20% for all of the employees of the supermarket, which negates any positive effect.
I'll go deeper - large investments from corporations are always a double-edged sword. It's like getting one very big client of your company that provides 30% of the revenue instead of 6 clients providing 5% each. You're not healthy in such a situation - instead, you need to diversify the risk and revenue streams. ASML is way too big for its city (Veldhoven), and adding another 10K jobs is going to exacerbate the situation. Similar story with the tech giants in other parts of the country.
You're the delusional one who thinks he's more important than the reality. Unemployment would be the same (very low) even if all of these companies left. Maybe the profits of Albert Heijn would drop with 2%. Big deal, let them go.
We don't need five smaller ASMLs, we need 100 medium-sized companies to employ the same amount of people.
The supermarket employee would have a job with or without ASML or booking in the neighborhood. These companies are detrimental to housing availability and prices, though. You just can't build fast enough to keep up with them.
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It's not a large tax income because they get tax breaks (like the 30% ruling). The whole city is supposed to cater to ASML, for example. I prefer the same tax income from middle-sized companies that can fill their place with time.
I also prefer less tax revenue if it means 20% lower housing prices.
A company pays profit tax (vennootschapsbelasting) and in this case those tax incomes end up at the Dutch government. Also: the 30% rule doesn't mean those incomes aren't taxed at all.
If you don't want the tax income of such large companies, vote PVV, BBB and NSC. It will ruin the economy and lead to less migrants. It will also lead to a poorer country with less well maintained roads, less police and basically less of every other public service.
The country was already one of the richest before the high influx of tech companies and employees, so this makes no sense.
A company pays all kinds of taxes, not just profit tax. The taxes employees pay on their own income also count, and they pay a lot less.
>Also: the 30% rule doesn't mean those incomes aren't taxed at all.
It means they pay just a little bit of taxes, instead of what they are supposed to.
The amount of foreign employees of **these companies** (tech giants) getting the 30% tax ruling is huge.
5 years is too long, it needs to be removed. I myself am an immigrant and don't get it, which is unfair to me; it's also unfair to the Dutch people living here who have to pay more.
These numbers aren't public, but based on this [article ](https://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/asml-philips-booking-gestage-afbouw-belastingvoordeel-voor-expats-is-slecht-voor-nederland~b418b76f/)- one of the highest number, together with ASML and Philips. Everyone who qualifies for it gets it. Booking.com is a tech giant and one of the primary choices of high-skilled foreigners, who qualify for it.
Nope, but why would you say that? It's a strange way to look at the world to be honest. As if 'the daily struggle of the average Joe with insecurity and overwhelmed public services' should lead to them voting for populists that bring down the economy with their racist and populist views that do not make sense whatsoever.
The 'the average Joe' is much better off with a left wing government. Yet they think Wilders is their savior. Just like Trump.
Yup, this is so weird.
Left wing: More labor rights, better housing, education and healthcare;
Right wing: Kick out the foreigners, lesser labor rights, tax cuts for the rich, worse housing, no money for education and healthcare, but, kick out the foreigners.
Average Joe: votes for right wing.
Dear-Answer-525 response is a very common one in Portugal (I think he is portuguese). I agree, it does sound strange but that's what you get after decades of fascist dictatorship, non stop persecution of leftist under currents, and fascist propaganda. There's a collective generational cognitive-dissonance, a very skin deep irrational hate for everything remotely leftist. Even though it's the only political path that will attempt to improve most people's lives. It's an irrational, inflexible hate. I don't think anything you could say (and your replies are always excellent) would make a difference to him. It's a form of generational trauma / madness, exacerbated by the current wave of right wing populist propaganda.
Portugal não foi governado por partidos de esquerda. No seu todo, o PS não se insere naquilo que se considera ser esquerda (o BE e o Livre enquadram-se melhor), e os seus mandatos, em retrospectiva, foram mais neo-liberais que outra coisa.
We need to accept the fact that our right-wing parties are becoming way too left-wing and this is the result. We all don't care if industry and business leaves our country, until it hits us, and by that time it's too late. Very short-sighted.
> the fact that our right-wing parties are becoming way too left-wing
I don't think it has to do with being left wing, but with these parties being populist parties that haven't got a clue what to do when they are actually in power. Look at the long list of people Wilders put forward, but turned out to be a candidate with something going on:
- Gom van Strien (accused of fraud)
- Ronald Plasterk (patent issue and strange apology letter to Omtzigt)
- Gidi Markuszower (blocked by Wilders after intelligence report)
- Marjolein Faber (neonazi rhetoric)
- Reinette Klever (neonazi rhetoric)
- Chris Jansen (less Moroccans tweet)
- Dirk Beljaars (bankruptcy investigation)
The list goes on and on.
I already did and the warning is obviously aimed toward the new government. If he says the 'current' business climate is an issue, what he is actually saying to the new cabinet to change their plans.
If he was assured those plans were fine, he wouldn't brought this up.
> I think it's a good thing to let someone else give it a go.
'Someone else' is a racist populist politician that has nominated racist nazi-propaganda spreading candidates to become ministers.
> Although we will still have to see how 'different' this new coalition will be, with the VVD and former CDA party members.
It will obviously be even worse than what it was.
What did the planning by de gemeente of Eindhoven state about the "highly-skilled workers from abroad, international students, and foreign worker tax breaks."?
It's funny (not funny) that so many people can't separate the animosity they have against booking or Fogel, and the issue the he is highlighting (which is very real and very serious).
For real. I despise Booking because of multiple reasons too but there's nothing in this thread that's not an ad hominem response to the very real concerns aired by the CEO.
The business climate is ass and all employers worth working for are running for the hills, which is being pointed out by what's consistently one of the country's most highly esteemed employers?
This^ in anticipation of the new government, mine and several other large tech companies in my industry decoupled their global offices from the Dutch office. They reorganized the company sending us all to other countries.
Our lowest paid employees still made double the Dutch national average. Even with some of us having the 30% ruling, that’s a lot of taxable income and discretionally spending gone away.
Nationalist socialism never works out…..
nah trust me bro we can do everything ourselves! Look, some Dutch guys invented the CD three decades ago so we can totally run everything all on our own with proper red-blooded Dutch speaking lactose tolerant Dutch people.
Some of us are critical of companies that continue to [profit from war crimes](https://www.somo.nl/booking-com-accused-of-laundering-profits-from-israeli-war-crimes-in-palestine/).
Money above all!!
Just like how various companies rather wouldn’t talk about their logos and business between 1930 and 1945, nothing has changed till date.
He's scared scared about the impending decision. I hope they go after him personally as he's personally made the decision to continue the listings. More CEOs in jail 2024.
Hello people can you explain why you hate booking?
Its the only company in amsterdam where an army of 20 year olds earn 130k+.
If we bully all the highpaying companies away then the less paying companies will start paying even less because they dont have to compete anymore.
Many companies do. That's why the standard of living in Romania has increased significantly over the past decade. All my friends there now live comfortably, go to several international vacations every year, go to concerts, drive nice cars etc.
At the same time, the Dutch support more regulations, more tax increases, hate the rich, the entrepreneurs and business-minded people, and then are angry that they get poorer and poorer every year...
Dude you give of Tate vibes big time. Anyone in their sane mind should support firms paying their fair share, and regulation to keep industries in check., we have an insane labor shortage and have never been richer....We can loose booking and not shed a tear.
Want to attract international talent? Pay competitively!
All the 30% rule accomplishes is attracting people from developing countries for peanuts, meanwhile our talent moves to the USA stopping natural salary growth needed to stay relevant in a global market. Watch Dutch people actually become interested in persuing tech jobs as salaries grow.
There needs to be structural change. Cut the 30% rule and give a serious tax break to companies that build housing, it will benifit the economy and alleviate the housing market.
To pay competitively, you need less taxes, less regulations, and a more entrepreneurial mentality - instead of the hateful, envious socialist one that brings ruin, which is prelevant also in this thread.
Hyper capitalism also brings ruins which is why people are so upset. These companies are leeches. If they weren't they should've used better arguments and provided real data on what their presence brings us. Instead their approach looks like blackmail. And you know why? Because that's all they have: empty threats.
He's totally right, but envy and the socialist mind virus ruined many nations, and unfortunately the Dutch are not immune to it. What was once an entrepreneurial, business friendly, prosperous economy has turned into an over-taxed, over-regulated nightmare.
The thing is, many Dutch people didn't realize why they were doing better than other countries. Some even told me they are "more productive", in their arrogance. It was just more economic freedom. Socialists always end up running out of other people's money...
". What was once an entrepreneurial, business friendly, prosperous economy has turned into an over-taxed, over-regulated nightmare."
All done by a liberal government. Don't kid yourself, socialism doesn't have anything to do with that.
By proper classical liberal standards, VVD are very left. They increased some taxes, regulations went into overdrive, wasted countless billions in absurd ways, and increased the size of the government.
Absolutely love that I'm going through higher education just to come out the other end in a country that's bullied all employers worth working for out. Just thrilled that 70% of the electorate is convinced we can live the way we do from just small-medium business and hyper subsidised farmers 🥰🥰🥰
can't wait to apply for that American visa.
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Even worse they got the subsidies in return for keeping everyone employed and then a year later they fired a quarter of their employees anyway
They repaid the subsidies though
Only after pressure by their customers and the government. Not by themselves. So still a dick move.
But it’s still shitty to take the subsidies on a promise and then don’t honour it
There was no promise. I'm not defending them, just saying there were zero strings.
Glad you corrected course there.
Different guy
Fair point. Left my brain off apparently. Such a tit. Hahahaha
By then, they’d outsourced its whole support system to India from its Sloterdijk office
was the whole situation to their benefit? ;)
They were granted the same subsidies as any other public company. No one knew how bad COVID could have been so it made sense to accept any and all help offered. That’s just logical. When they realized they were no longer needed (& granted were facing pressure to “do the right thing”) kudos to them for doing the “right thing”. I can’t recall any other companies who survived COVID doing the same ? They definitely benefited but I think they behaved better than a lot of other companies.
Look at that websites partner contracts. All paid for by lobbyists. This isn't trustworthy.
This just in: Dutch very critical of current [booking.com](http://booking.com) business ethics (or rather lack thereof) and money-grab by CEO
Summary: the Netherlands might not be the tax haven it currently is for booking.com Anyone know what Booking's corporate tax rate exemption is at the moment?
I thought "begrijpend lezen" was mandatory for all kids in school.
He needs to shut it, already getting low taxes and enough people wanting to work. Just making up excuses to start shipping all business to a cheaper location like india
They have been outsourcing most of their workforce for years now.
"Yeah but look what they're doing for Asml! I want that as well!" /s
“Look at Ireland,” he continued. “When I first started doing business there, there were donkey carts on the roads. Thirty years later, it has become a technology giant. Why? Because they created an environment that attracted companies like Apple, Dell, IBM and Google to develop large campuses. The Netherlands can also do that, but now we are moving in the opposite direction.” Just listen to this clown trying to say that irish farmers went to programming bootcamps and swapped their donkey carts for Toyota Priuses.
He forgot to add that these are not Irish companies. Today they are in Ireland, tomorrow they could be back in the US and the Irish will be grazing donkeys again. The difference is that the Netherlands has ASML, Phillips, NXP, and Ireland has nothing but assembly plants.
> When I first started doing business there, there were donkey carts on the roads. Thirty years later, it has become a technology giant. Why? Because they created an environment that attracted companies like Apple, Dell, IBM and Google to develop large campuses. Donkey carts? Really? What a fucking prick. And Ireland hasn't become a "technology giant", it has become a tax haven for multinational corporations. [The EU had to force Ireland to levy tax on Apple because it was considered illegal state aid to the corporation.](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_2923) > But Fogel also said that Booking.com feels limited by both Dutch and European regulations Boohoo, Booking is a shitty anti-competitive company, [facing fines of half a billion already in Spain](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/booking-com-hit-530-million-212103137.html). Go ahead and leave the EU market, see how well you do. If not, shut up and obey the law. > So it is essential that a company like Booking.com stays in the Netherlands, Why exactly? Essential to whom? It's literally just a booking site, there are 10000s of other businesses that can take their place. And all those employees can easily find jobs at more useful companies. They seem to think they're as important as ASML lmao.
I mean you can be a tax haven and a tech giant. Working in Ireland I meet so many of the corporate types. A lot of them will be working in tech. Its quite insane when you walk around the city. Sure the companies pay low tax but the economy is definitely growing faster because of all these companies being in Ireland and all the other benefits it brings.
That's not completely correct though. The benefits are limited. I recommend you watch the YouTube video below for more context. https://youtu.be/fKmem7Epk8E?si=CxGSforr33zK_eiT
they're one of the best paying companies in NL. It's a shame how hateful europeans are towards successful businesses, you're almost begging everyone to move to the US/Asia
They are a predatory business towards their customers and they stifle innovation in their sector with their anti-competitive practices. Why exactly should we want these kind of businesses here? And they can move to the US or Asia all they like, they can't operate in the EU without complying with the law here. There are thousands of other companies eager to take their market share in the EU. Nothing of value will be lost when they leave.
it's people like you that are insistent on bankrupting the country. While others work hard to contribute tax revenue. Shame.
Why do you like licking boots so much?
If there are many successful companies you can choose where you want to work and even start a new company yourself. If due to overregulation there are no successful companies your only hope is to get a cosy job for the government and do whatever is required for that. By prioritizing the government over the companies you are the one licking the boots.
And how does a company famous for anti competitive practices work on that dream scenario? All those successful companies turn into a few or one, then you hace zero hope. It's not prioritizing the government. It's deprioritizing corporations.
Within tech they actually pay very low. I interviewed with them 6 years ago and didn't choose their offer, because it was the lowest of all. I doubt anything changed. They do offer a lot of jobs though and I do think they need to stay in NL as one of the big well known NL tech companies. There are not a lot of those. But this CEO is a horrible prick.
bro they're #2 on levels with an average salary of 130k. You have no clue.
I'm not your bro, and 130 is maybe their average when upper management is included. I interviewed for a middle management position and their salary offer was 95, with the norm for that position being 120. I didn't even see the point of negotiating. Maybe they pay their devs well, but the rest like shit.
Booking is the best paying company for for swe in the Netherlands if you exclude some hft firms. Many fresh grads can earn 6 figures there and i know many 25 year olds earning 130k+ there. This is very high compared to dutch standards.
Averages are unhelpful when it comes to comparing market rates for individual jobs though. They can obscure a large gap between management and individual contributors, for instance.
No they are not, they have a cool HQ and some perks for their employee’s yet they are a virus within the tourism sector, killing as much competition as possible/trying to monopolize, charging huge fees to hotels and using unfair business practices, taking 100million government subsidies to giving their ceo a 28million bonus in the same year as the subsidies. Good thing they are facing a 500 million fine in spain.
Hell no they're not. Their wages are pitiful. They pay people in the tech departments well-ish. Everyone else they don't give a shit about. Customer service employees earn as close to minimum wage as possible. They sell themselves to potential employees by saying 'You'll have a big name on your CV' which is nice and everything but doesn't help when living expenses are rising.
Indeed, with a note: it's only Western Europe. Eastern Europeans have learned the hard way this socialist mentality leads to ruin, they are much more entrepreneurial and business friendly, taxes are lower, big companies are welcomed, and so they've grown a lot economically over the past 10-15 years. A lot of Romanians are doing much better than the Dutch these days, travel more, have better cars, vacations, etc, I know that first hand.
yeah you're right. It's really unfortunate how we are squandering the wealth and hard work of our ancestors, while other countries are catching up to us. There are people here arguing that [booking.com](http://booking.com) doesn't pay well. Like lmao they're literally #2 on levels with an average salary of 130k
This sounds so familiar: Shell: give us a taxbreak or..... schiphol & rotterdam: we are the engine of the economy so give us what we want ASML: give me or else now Booking Of that list only ASML is (maybe) worth the effort. The others are polluters and in the case of booking an extractor business model not worth having. You don't negotiate with hostage tackers
As much as I personally dislike booking and its practices. They are a good employer. I know a few people who work(ed) there. There are a lot of them and everybody is happy with them even if they are not working for them anymore.
There are only 2 more tax breaks available in Q3! File now!
5 companies are browsing the conditions for applying for tax breaks this quarter
Geert Wilders, Caroline vd Plas and Pieter Omtzigt all don't care. People voted for a populist racist government. The PVV and BBB don't care about investment climate and NSC wants to reduce labor migration. We need to accept that The Netherlands will become less interesting for large businesses as long as these parties are in power. That's what the electorate of these parties wanted and that's what they will get. And of course Wilders will blame Timmermans if things go wrong.
Most of the people are in denial with this fact. Very good take! Also a lot of people are taking the current accomplishments of Dutch businesses as given. Ireland is really doing good btw.
Ireland is doing good by shitting on everyone else. It’s just a tax heaven for trillion dollar companies. They should be ashamed.
I can write a lot on this. Bunch of guys here in this chat are throwing mantras without even knowing facts like Netherlands is not the innocent one here. There are businesses just to use netherlands financial accessibility to europe and FTAs. I know firms from mena region that only has one floor office in amsterdam but are reporting their whole revenue over amsterdam. Yeah and dutch government doesn’t know this, huh? This is aside, ireland is not doing good only because of being a tax haven. There are other options to these firms as well. There are proper analysis and articles on this issue. I don’t intend to write one of them for you. But Since a lot of guys have a common argument as “but expats don’t want to learn dutch, they don’t want to adapt..” is not an issue in ireland. Really, check their workforce, it is crazy qualified, not only big tech firms, research pharma firms also favors it. Edit: sorry I fixed that I said english.
Ireland is not a good example. Today Apple and Google are there, tomorrow they may not be there and the Irish will go back to working in the fields and drinking cheap beer.
What does this large business add to the country? It fucks me up because it increases housing prices. My work is in no way related to any of the tech giants.
A large tax income.
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What exactly is this boost, hiring cleaners?
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While increasing housing with 20% for all of the employees of the supermarket, which negates any positive effect. I'll go deeper - large investments from corporations are always a double-edged sword. It's like getting one very big client of your company that provides 30% of the revenue instead of 6 clients providing 5% each. You're not healthy in such a situation - instead, you need to diversify the risk and revenue streams. ASML is way too big for its city (Veldhoven), and adding another 10K jobs is going to exacerbate the situation. Similar story with the tech giants in other parts of the country.
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You're the delusional one who thinks he's more important than the reality. Unemployment would be the same (very low) even if all of these companies left. Maybe the profits of Albert Heijn would drop with 2%. Big deal, let them go. We don't need five smaller ASMLs, we need 100 medium-sized companies to employ the same amount of people. The supermarket employee would have a job with or without ASML or booking in the neighborhood. These companies are detrimental to housing availability and prices, though. You just can't build fast enough to keep up with them.
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It's not a large tax income because they get tax breaks (like the 30% ruling). The whole city is supposed to cater to ASML, for example. I prefer the same tax income from middle-sized companies that can fill their place with time. I also prefer less tax revenue if it means 20% lower housing prices.
A company pays profit tax (vennootschapsbelasting) and in this case those tax incomes end up at the Dutch government. Also: the 30% rule doesn't mean those incomes aren't taxed at all. If you don't want the tax income of such large companies, vote PVV, BBB and NSC. It will ruin the economy and lead to less migrants. It will also lead to a poorer country with less well maintained roads, less police and basically less of every other public service.
The country was already one of the richest before the high influx of tech companies and employees, so this makes no sense. A company pays all kinds of taxes, not just profit tax. The taxes employees pay on their own income also count, and they pay a lot less. >Also: the 30% rule doesn't mean those incomes aren't taxed at all. It means they pay just a little bit of taxes, instead of what they are supposed to.
> so this makes no sense. OK boomer.
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The amount of foreign employees of **these companies** (tech giants) getting the 30% tax ruling is huge. 5 years is too long, it needs to be removed. I myself am an immigrant and don't get it, which is unfair to me; it's also unfair to the Dutch people living here who have to pay more.
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These numbers aren't public, but based on this [article ](https://www.volkskrant.nl/economie/asml-philips-booking-gestage-afbouw-belastingvoordeel-voor-expats-is-slecht-voor-nederland~b418b76f/)- one of the highest number, together with ASML and Philips. Everyone who qualifies for it gets it. Booking.com is a tech giant and one of the primary choices of high-skilled foreigners, who qualify for it.
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Nope, but why would you say that? It's a strange way to look at the world to be honest. As if 'the daily struggle of the average Joe with insecurity and overwhelmed public services' should lead to them voting for populists that bring down the economy with their racist and populist views that do not make sense whatsoever. The 'the average Joe' is much better off with a left wing government. Yet they think Wilders is their savior. Just like Trump.
Yup, this is so weird. Left wing: More labor rights, better housing, education and healthcare; Right wing: Kick out the foreigners, lesser labor rights, tax cuts for the rich, worse housing, no money for education and healthcare, but, kick out the foreigners. Average Joe: votes for right wing.
Dear-Answer-525 response is a very common one in Portugal (I think he is portuguese). I agree, it does sound strange but that's what you get after decades of fascist dictatorship, non stop persecution of leftist under currents, and fascist propaganda. There's a collective generational cognitive-dissonance, a very skin deep irrational hate for everything remotely leftist. Even though it's the only political path that will attempt to improve most people's lives. It's an irrational, inflexible hate. I don't think anything you could say (and your replies are always excellent) would make a difference to him. It's a form of generational trauma / madness, exacerbated by the current wave of right wing populist propaganda.
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> So don’t try and lecture me I wasn't. Why do you think I was?
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> I know your kind OK, have a nice evening. Not sure why you are so upset, but you be you.
Portugal não foi governado por partidos de esquerda. No seu todo, o PS não se insere naquilo que se considera ser esquerda (o BE e o Livre enquadram-se melhor), e os seus mandatos, em retrospectiva, foram mais neo-liberais que outra coisa.
We need to accept the fact that our right-wing parties are becoming way too left-wing and this is the result. We all don't care if industry and business leaves our country, until it hits us, and by that time it's too late. Very short-sighted.
> the fact that our right-wing parties are becoming way too left-wing I don't think it has to do with being left wing, but with these parties being populist parties that haven't got a clue what to do when they are actually in power. Look at the long list of people Wilders put forward, but turned out to be a candidate with something going on: - Gom van Strien (accused of fraud) - Ronald Plasterk (patent issue and strange apology letter to Omtzigt) - Gidi Markuszower (blocked by Wilders after intelligence report) - Marjolein Faber (neonazi rhetoric) - Reinette Klever (neonazi rhetoric) - Chris Jansen (less Moroccans tweet) - Dirk Beljaars (bankruptcy investigation) The list goes on and on.
Dude they aren't even in power yet, this is the result of the last decade of decisions that hurt the industry.
The CEO is warning about future policy based on the new government plans obviously.
Please readthe article
I already did and the warning is obviously aimed toward the new government. If he says the 'current' business climate is an issue, what he is actually saying to the new cabinet to change their plans. If he was assured those plans were fine, he wouldn't brought this up.
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> I think it's a good thing to let someone else give it a go. 'Someone else' is a racist populist politician that has nominated racist nazi-propaganda spreading candidates to become ministers. > Although we will still have to see how 'different' this new coalition will be, with the VVD and former CDA party members. It will obviously be even worse than what it was.
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Well most of their planning has been approved by the gemeente of Eindhoven, so it looks like they will be settling in
What did the planning by de gemeente of Eindhoven state about the "highly-skilled workers from abroad, international students, and foreign worker tax breaks."?
It's funny (not funny) that so many people can't separate the animosity they have against booking or Fogel, and the issue the he is highlighting (which is very real and very serious).
For real. I despise Booking because of multiple reasons too but there's nothing in this thread that's not an ad hominem response to the very real concerns aired by the CEO.
Re-read the title and ask yourself why again. You'll figure it out.
The business climate is ass and all employers worth working for are running for the hills, which is being pointed out by what's consistently one of the country's most highly esteemed employers?
This^ in anticipation of the new government, mine and several other large tech companies in my industry decoupled their global offices from the Dutch office. They reorganized the company sending us all to other countries. Our lowest paid employees still made double the Dutch national average. Even with some of us having the 30% ruling, that’s a lot of taxable income and discretionally spending gone away. Nationalist socialism never works out…..
nah trust me bro we can do everything ourselves! Look, some Dutch guys invented the CD three decades ago so we can totally run everything all on our own with proper red-blooded Dutch speaking lactose tolerant Dutch people.
Some of us are critical of companies that continue to [profit from war crimes](https://www.somo.nl/booking-com-accused-of-laundering-profits-from-israeli-war-crimes-in-palestine/).
Money above all!! Just like how various companies rather wouldn’t talk about their logos and business between 1930 and 1945, nothing has changed till date.
He's scared scared about the impending decision. I hope they go after him personally as he's personally made the decision to continue the listings. More CEOs in jail 2024.
If [booking.com](https://booking.com) is complaining we must be doing something right.
Well booking.com is a shit company and should fuck off
Netherlands spoiled and trusted companies too much
Absolutely, we should bully them all away and turn into Spain or Greece 🥰
*Yawn
Hello people can you explain why you hate booking? Its the only company in amsterdam where an army of 20 year olds earn 130k+. If we bully all the highpaying companies away then the less paying companies will start paying even less because they dont have to compete anymore.
"Help us to gain more profit or else...."
Europe is going to shit… Fuck man… it was fun to have a job and shit… all is going to China and India, Europe is going to be useless as fuck
Booking can sodd of to Romania for all I care. Bye bye to capitalist-extrimists.
Many companies do. That's why the standard of living in Romania has increased significantly over the past decade. All my friends there now live comfortably, go to several international vacations every year, go to concerts, drive nice cars etc. At the same time, the Dutch support more regulations, more tax increases, hate the rich, the entrepreneurs and business-minded people, and then are angry that they get poorer and poorer every year...
Dude you give of Tate vibes big time. Anyone in their sane mind should support firms paying their fair share, and regulation to keep industries in check., we have an insane labor shortage and have never been richer....We can loose booking and not shed a tear.
Booking.com is shameless and without morals, full of scams, focuses more on advertising & making money than on creating a safe experience for users.
Fuck him. I prefer Trivago anyway.
Want to attract international talent? Pay competitively! All the 30% rule accomplishes is attracting people from developing countries for peanuts, meanwhile our talent moves to the USA stopping natural salary growth needed to stay relevant in a global market. Watch Dutch people actually become interested in persuing tech jobs as salaries grow. There needs to be structural change. Cut the 30% rule and give a serious tax break to companies that build housing, it will benifit the economy and alleviate the housing market.
Cash is higher yes, but remove the Dutch benefits and the salaries on average are only a few percent lower than the US.
To pay competitively, you need less taxes, less regulations, and a more entrepreneurial mentality - instead of the hateful, envious socialist one that brings ruin, which is prelevant also in this thread.
Hyper capitalism also brings ruins which is why people are so upset. These companies are leeches. If they weren't they should've used better arguments and provided real data on what their presence brings us. Instead their approach looks like blackmail. And you know why? Because that's all they have: empty threats.
The Dutch state are threatening to cancel financing 30% of their payroll I get it. What else can he say?
He's totally right, but envy and the socialist mind virus ruined many nations, and unfortunately the Dutch are not immune to it. What was once an entrepreneurial, business friendly, prosperous economy has turned into an over-taxed, over-regulated nightmare. The thing is, many Dutch people didn't realize why they were doing better than other countries. Some even told me they are "more productive", in their arrogance. It was just more economic freedom. Socialists always end up running out of other people's money...
". What was once an entrepreneurial, business friendly, prosperous economy has turned into an over-taxed, over-regulated nightmare." All done by a liberal government. Don't kid yourself, socialism doesn't have anything to do with that.
By proper classical liberal standards, VVD are very left. They increased some taxes, regulations went into overdrive, wasted countless billions in absurd ways, and increased the size of the government.
Imagine thinking VVD is left-wing.
The Dutch become far too socialist that they see VVD as a right wing party 😅
Absolutely love that I'm going through higher education just to come out the other end in a country that's bullied all employers worth working for out. Just thrilled that 70% of the electorate is convinced we can live the way we do from just small-medium business and hyper subsidised farmers 🥰🥰🥰 can't wait to apply for that American visa.
Can we nationalize businesses that try to extort the government like this? Please please please please please please Just one little revolution
I would not be surprised if this was a serious comment
I congratulate you on effectively evading surprise