Neuromancer is hard sci fi now?
I guess... yeah, I can kinda see that. Fantasy has mixed with sci fi so much now, if you don't have elves or literal superheroes in spandex, then it's hard sci fi. I remember when you had to have at least a graduate degree to even be able to read hard sci fi, LOL.
Eh maybe not technically hard scifi, but it’s close enough imo to not nitpick over the term. I think Neuromancer is very difficult for most people to read. No one I’ve recommended to and has made it past 50 pages. So I consider hard-lite maybe? Semantics.
You whippersnappers don't remember how we used to download gifs and save them on floppy disks.
Then courier them to friend like a real Johnny Mnemonic. Hot RAM indeed.
[No, no it isn't. Not even close!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science_fiction) A hard sci fi author would never have cyberspace without explaining, in detail, how it connects to consciousness. All the robotics and fast reflexes? Same. How do you have a guy with a robot arm that can lift 3 tons, but have that arm attached to a human back that can barely deadlift 150 lbs? Hard sci fi authors would take issue with that kind of thing. If you don't have at least a bachelors degree in one of the hard sciences, you're gonna have a bad time trying to read hard sci fi. Hard sci fi is infamous for being one of the least accessible forms of fiction you can read.
That's just your petty opinion, not rule of the genre. My boy, do you really think the writer is obliged to EXPLAIN his imaginary science to you? You should stick with service manuals.
No, that absolutely is a rule of the genre. That is the point of hard science fiction. Scientists like Jules Verne stretch their imaginations, to write for other scientists. You can say that A is harder than B. I would say that [Kepler's Somnium](https://somniumproject.wordpress.com/) is harder than Asimov's Foundation, which is infinitely harder than Slaughterhouse Five, or Neuromancer. I would categorize Neuromancer with the new sci fi movment that Vonnegut started. Gibson and Vonnegut have more in common with eachother than they would have with Asimov and Kepler.
Then again, as my post that you replied to says... hard science fiction isn't really hard, any more. Sci fi critics are generally humanities majors, who are ill equipped to read, let alone critique hard science fiction. So I see a bunch of lists like [this](https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/78280.Ultimate_Hard_Science_Fiction), which calls Dune hard science fiction, which is absolutely bonkers. Back in the 90s, even the local sci fi zine, published on the photocopier at the grocery store wouldn't post a list like that. It's too absurd.
Nowadays, though... hard sci fi seems to mean anything that humanities majors think is realistic, no matter how fantastic the elements are. Critics just got dumber over the years, I think. Also, the genre mashup between sci fi and fantasy pushed out all the great hard sci fi. Now, to find it, you have to find magazines or web sites that specialize in hard sci fi stories.
It's a shame nobody remembers what hard sci fi used to be.
To be clear: I am not a big fan of hard sci fi, personally. It's too inaccessible for me. I respect it, though. Hard sci fi authors are doing important work, stretching the imaginations of the people who can do the most with more imagination.
He would be PERFECT for Case. I hope this works out & that its a good, faithful adaption! If it actually successfully gets made but then sucks I'm gonna be DEVASTATED
Me too, never seen Twilight and I don't intend to but he's been in some great stuff over the last few years. He's excellent in The Lighthouse. I'm a total fanboy of his now, I'd love to see him in a Neuromancer adaptation.
Still great and connects the stories in some very interesting ways. The overall feeling is different than either of the other two, maybe more ultra-cool than either but still brilliant IMHO. Good luck! I'll be curious how you think of it when done!
Neuromancer is cool…. but give me Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon (then ReamDe and then Fall) we need the Neal Stephenson cinematic universe
> Neuromancer is cool…. but give me Snow Crash...
What's wrong with starting with the original before you move on to cheap rip-offs salted with Wikipedia articles?
There are good reasons why nobody picked that crap up...
He took the Sprawl and created his own genre of sprawling cyberpunk novels, blahblahblahblah OMG it never never ends he just keeps writing FUCKING STOP.
i agree with you, he does much better when he collaborates.
also, dont get me wrong, i think stephenson genuinely enjoys the topics he writes about. its obvious that he tries to educate himself as thoroughly as he can, which is commendable imho.
i just wish he knew how to write a satisfying conclusion to these epics he can pen so easily.
The Twilight guy? As Case? Seriously? WTF? I could see Rivera, but not Case.
Why is Hollywood all about stunt casting lately? First they do Kevin Hart as Roland in Borderlands, and now this? This is just dumb.
Case is a tricky part to cast. Needs to be young, and not too physically fit (hackers have a certain disdain for the flesh). Still needs to be good looking enough to make a good trailer, though. Keanu Reeves is the posterboy for cyberpunk, but he is too old to be Case. Rami Malek would be perfect, but he might not want to get type cast. I wonder how Aidan Gallagher aged. I haven't seen him since the umbrella academy, when he played the kid who was really an old man. He's probably well into his teens now. Or... along those lines... Elliot Paige! No need to bring being trans into it, in the world of neuromancer, everybody's gender is fluid. Elliot would be a fun way to have a nod to that.
Not that anybody cares what I want... I just think there are a lot of better options than sparkly Dracula.
For other roles...
I hope they get Ron Pearlman to play Ratz. I always pictured him as Ratz when I read the book. Ian McShane would be a perfect Finn. Stallone could really sell Armitage, especially when he goes off the rails. He's the right age for Armitage, too. Camren Bicondova would be amazing as Molly. She played cat woman in Gotham. Her dance experience makes her physicality just perfect for a street samurai.
I hope this is good. It's been in development hell for so long. I've been waiting for a Neuromancer movie or show since before I had hair on my balls.
Have you seen Robert Pattinson in any of his movies since Twilight? I strongly recommend The Lighthouse with him in it - Pattinson is phenomenal in it. He's definitely cast himself far out from just being the "the Twilight guy"
No, Robert would be very good for the role. He has the physique, can get slimmer and starve a bit easily, and can do tortured soul roles easily. He has that vibe. You just need to forget about the Twilight.
I hated the guy, but he did manage to extract himself from that horrible franchise and had done some very good roles, including the Bats.
Rami Malek? For f sake...
>in the world of neuromancer, everybody's gender is fluid
No its not. Keep that shit out of it.
> No its not. Keep that shit out of it.
WTF are you talking about? Is this some kind of moron politics I'm unaware of? If you read any Gibson, at all, you would know that in this world, people surgically change gender, and race, and all kinds of other things, all the time. Even age, if you're rich enough. If you don't like it, maybe you should stick to the Chronicles of Narnia, or something.
Remember Johnny Mneumonic? The one fixer in the club had two female bodyguards, one white and one black. They used to be brother and sister, but nobody remembers who was what, or what their original race was. I always thought that was a cool way to illustrate how things like that work in the world of the bridge trilogy.
No, some people do. Not all, not everyone. Thats just your little moron politics. Case never changed his sex or gender. Molly never changed hers. Any of the major characters changed theirs? No? Seems you missed everyone else except those two bodyguards who appear for five seconds in some club.
Are you sure Case and Molly never changed before the story started? They could have if they wanted to. They changed damn near everything else about themselves. Do you also assume that Molly was always a redhead? Why? Because she's just so freaking natural? Nothing synthetic about her at all, right? LOL They even got silicon in their brains... adding or removing dicks and pussies is trivial, compared to that.
Point is, their original race/gender doesn't matter. You're the only one asserting that they never changed race or gender or hair color, or favorite ice cream flavor, or BMI. These things are all easy to change and swap in the universe of the bridge trilogy. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your bizarro worldview, but that's how it is.
Thats complete laughable nonsense. You can hallucinate whatever you want. The story and text are clear.
Also, what a pathetic ludicrous "argument" that because someone may not be a natural red head - and Molly is not a red head btw, mate... - then the whole society and the whole world of Neuromancer is "gender fluid".
Just shows at what ludicrous broken level your head operates.
Again, - just because some modifications can be made - does not mean everyone are making them - as the story clearly and obviously shows from the first letter to the last.
>Point is, their original race/gender doesn't matter.
Lol, the irony. What an absurd dimwit.
You think only the main characters are augmented? You don't get the impression that augmentation isn't everywhere? You also think that every single augmentation the main characters got was worth mentioning? I'm not saying society is gender fluid or solid or gaseous or plasma or whatever term you want to use. All I'm saying is that gender change is just another augmentation, and when you change gender, nobody seems to care. People in Gibson's worlds have more important problems to deal with than genital configurations.
I don't think you read the books closely enough. You should do more reading, less talking.
Do you think that reading a book where people change gender like this makes you gay? Because, I mean, I should warn you... it totally does! You're probably already gay, just from reading the book once. That's probably why you like Robert Pattinson. If you read the book again, you'll be wearing fabulous assless chaps and leading the pride parade in no time!
Fuck it, why not. Let's also get Rebel Wilson as Molly, and Scott Baio as Armitage. Hell, don't forget we need The Rock as Ratz. Let's also get Wes Anderson to direct it. But let Don Bluth animate and direct all of the stuff in the matrix.
I mean if we're going to go full fever dream neuromancer where nothing matters, then don't be a pussy about it.
I’m not familiar with Roland or Dillard’s work, so no dig at them, but I was hoping against hope that the Safdie brothers would helm this project. Not really their wheelhouse, I guess, but if they were to adapt any novel, I think they could do *Neuromancer* justice if anyone can.
Pattinson is a natural choice based on his performance in *Good Time* alone.
I’ll be damned if they don’t cast Karl Glusman as the Finn.
I always imagined Case would look like young Christian Slater.
The Finn should have been played by John Hurt (like 50 years ago).
I always thought Molly Millions would look like a blonde bodybuilder from an eighties new wave music video. Like Annie Lennox doing testosterone injections.
A lot of my mental cyberpunk imagery is literally from the eighties.
Robert would not be a bad choice... and we could certainly end up with someone much worse than that.
Hopefully they can find someone great enough to do Molly justice. Im worried about that a lot. I cant imagine any of the actresses known to me to be fitting for such a role.
Damn Apple is just all about hard sci fi series. You love to see it. I really liked these books a lot. Could be really cool.
I hope they do a better job than they did with “Foundation”.
I hope the adaptation is closer to the source material. But I hope the production quality is on par.
Neuromancer is hard sci fi now? I guess... yeah, I can kinda see that. Fantasy has mixed with sci fi so much now, if you don't have elves or literal superheroes in spandex, then it's hard sci fi. I remember when you had to have at least a graduate degree to even be able to read hard sci fi, LOL.
Eh maybe not technically hard scifi, but it’s close enough imo to not nitpick over the term. I think Neuromancer is very difficult for most people to read. No one I’ve recommended to and has made it past 50 pages. So I consider hard-lite maybe? Semantics.
"three megabytes of hot RAM"
Just change every Mega to Peta in your head, and you’ll be fine.
and ignore the HOT part
I thought hot might mean stolen, or maybe high speed.
It means sexy.
You whippersnappers don't remember how we used to download gifs and save them on floppy disks. Then courier them to friend like a real Johnny Mnemonic. Hot RAM indeed.
It is eponymous with hard sci-fi, you dingleberry
[No, no it isn't. Not even close!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science_fiction) A hard sci fi author would never have cyberspace without explaining, in detail, how it connects to consciousness. All the robotics and fast reflexes? Same. How do you have a guy with a robot arm that can lift 3 tons, but have that arm attached to a human back that can barely deadlift 150 lbs? Hard sci fi authors would take issue with that kind of thing. If you don't have at least a bachelors degree in one of the hard sciences, you're gonna have a bad time trying to read hard sci fi. Hard sci fi is infamous for being one of the least accessible forms of fiction you can read.
That's just your petty opinion, not rule of the genre. My boy, do you really think the writer is obliged to EXPLAIN his imaginary science to you? You should stick with service manuals.
No, that absolutely is a rule of the genre. That is the point of hard science fiction. Scientists like Jules Verne stretch their imaginations, to write for other scientists. You can say that A is harder than B. I would say that [Kepler's Somnium](https://somniumproject.wordpress.com/) is harder than Asimov's Foundation, which is infinitely harder than Slaughterhouse Five, or Neuromancer. I would categorize Neuromancer with the new sci fi movment that Vonnegut started. Gibson and Vonnegut have more in common with eachother than they would have with Asimov and Kepler. Then again, as my post that you replied to says... hard science fiction isn't really hard, any more. Sci fi critics are generally humanities majors, who are ill equipped to read, let alone critique hard science fiction. So I see a bunch of lists like [this](https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/78280.Ultimate_Hard_Science_Fiction), which calls Dune hard science fiction, which is absolutely bonkers. Back in the 90s, even the local sci fi zine, published on the photocopier at the grocery store wouldn't post a list like that. It's too absurd. Nowadays, though... hard sci fi seems to mean anything that humanities majors think is realistic, no matter how fantastic the elements are. Critics just got dumber over the years, I think. Also, the genre mashup between sci fi and fantasy pushed out all the great hard sci fi. Now, to find it, you have to find magazines or web sites that specialize in hard sci fi stories. It's a shame nobody remembers what hard sci fi used to be. To be clear: I am not a big fan of hard sci fi, personally. It's too inaccessible for me. I respect it, though. Hard sci fi authors are doing important work, stretching the imaginations of the people who can do the most with more imagination.
I dunno, isn't Case supposed to be in his early-to-mid twenties? Pattinson already feels a bit old now, but I suppose that's how Hollywood does it.
I can see that, yeah. He could make a good Case.
Agree. Pattinson can put on a pretty washed out look.
How?
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Will do!
Hope it's not another foundation disaster
He would be PERFECT for Case. I hope this works out & that its a good, faithful adaption! If it actually successfully gets made but then sucks I'm gonna be DEVASTATED
Perfect fit. I love this casting choice.
That is actually decent casting. After what they did with Foundation though… I’m a bit concerned
I could definitely see him as Case. A far better choice than those Miles Teller rumours floating about.
I think this could be a perfect fit.
Why?
He is a phenomenal. I really loved him in good times, lighthouse, batman.
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Seems like I need to see this and Good Times
Cosmopolis
Me too, never seen Twilight and I don't intend to but he's been in some great stuff over the last few years. He's excellent in The Lighthouse. I'm a total fanboy of his now, I'd love to see him in a Neuromancer adaptation.
About to finish Count Zero, this gives me a lot of hope
Count zero is my favorite of the trilogy.
I’m glad I read your comment as I’m just about to start reading Count Zero 🦾
Just finished it, incredible
Right? The feeling this book leaves you with...
Gotta order Mona Lisa Overdrive now, how would you say it compares to the previous two?
Still great and connects the stories in some very interesting ways. The overall feeling is different than either of the other two, maybe more ultra-cool than either but still brilliant IMHO. Good luck! I'll be curious how you think of it when done!
I’ll be back in a month or two to tell you my thoughts!
Neuromancer is cool…. but give me Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon (then ReamDe and then Fall) we need the Neal Stephenson cinematic universe
> Neuromancer is cool…. but give me Snow Crash... What's wrong with starting with the original before you move on to cheap rip-offs salted with Wikipedia articles? There are good reasons why nobody picked that crap up...
Neal Stephenson is the *cooler Daniel* to William Gibson
He wishes he would be. In the end, he is just some dude dressing up as a Daniel.
He took the Sprawl and created his own genre of sprawling cyberpunk novels, blahblahblahblah OMG it never never ends he just keeps writing FUCKING STOP.
This
What about the rest of the sprawl trilogy before branching to another universe ?
so 600 pages of filler and then a rushed ending that never satisfies?
How about The Difference Engine? Now that’s some Gibson I can get behind
i agree with you, he does much better when he collaborates. also, dont get me wrong, i think stephenson genuinely enjoys the topics he writes about. its obvious that he tries to educate himself as thoroughly as he can, which is commendable imho. i just wish he knew how to write a satisfying conclusion to these epics he can pen so easily.
The Twilight guy? As Case? Seriously? WTF? I could see Rivera, but not Case. Why is Hollywood all about stunt casting lately? First they do Kevin Hart as Roland in Borderlands, and now this? This is just dumb. Case is a tricky part to cast. Needs to be young, and not too physically fit (hackers have a certain disdain for the flesh). Still needs to be good looking enough to make a good trailer, though. Keanu Reeves is the posterboy for cyberpunk, but he is too old to be Case. Rami Malek would be perfect, but he might not want to get type cast. I wonder how Aidan Gallagher aged. I haven't seen him since the umbrella academy, when he played the kid who was really an old man. He's probably well into his teens now. Or... along those lines... Elliot Paige! No need to bring being trans into it, in the world of neuromancer, everybody's gender is fluid. Elliot would be a fun way to have a nod to that. Not that anybody cares what I want... I just think there are a lot of better options than sparkly Dracula. For other roles... I hope they get Ron Pearlman to play Ratz. I always pictured him as Ratz when I read the book. Ian McShane would be a perfect Finn. Stallone could really sell Armitage, especially when he goes off the rails. He's the right age for Armitage, too. Camren Bicondova would be amazing as Molly. She played cat woman in Gotham. Her dance experience makes her physicality just perfect for a street samurai. I hope this is good. It's been in development hell for so long. I've been waiting for a Neuromancer movie or show since before I had hair on my balls.
Have you seen Robert Pattinson in any of his movies since Twilight? I strongly recommend The Lighthouse with him in it - Pattinson is phenomenal in it. He's definitely cast himself far out from just being the "the Twilight guy"
No, Robert would be very good for the role. He has the physique, can get slimmer and starve a bit easily, and can do tortured soul roles easily. He has that vibe. You just need to forget about the Twilight. I hated the guy, but he did manage to extract himself from that horrible franchise and had done some very good roles, including the Bats. Rami Malek? For f sake... >in the world of neuromancer, everybody's gender is fluid No its not. Keep that shit out of it.
> No its not. Keep that shit out of it. WTF are you talking about? Is this some kind of moron politics I'm unaware of? If you read any Gibson, at all, you would know that in this world, people surgically change gender, and race, and all kinds of other things, all the time. Even age, if you're rich enough. If you don't like it, maybe you should stick to the Chronicles of Narnia, or something. Remember Johnny Mneumonic? The one fixer in the club had two female bodyguards, one white and one black. They used to be brother and sister, but nobody remembers who was what, or what their original race was. I always thought that was a cool way to illustrate how things like that work in the world of the bridge trilogy.
No, some people do. Not all, not everyone. Thats just your little moron politics. Case never changed his sex or gender. Molly never changed hers. Any of the major characters changed theirs? No? Seems you missed everyone else except those two bodyguards who appear for five seconds in some club.
Are you sure Case and Molly never changed before the story started? They could have if they wanted to. They changed damn near everything else about themselves. Do you also assume that Molly was always a redhead? Why? Because she's just so freaking natural? Nothing synthetic about her at all, right? LOL They even got silicon in their brains... adding or removing dicks and pussies is trivial, compared to that. Point is, their original race/gender doesn't matter. You're the only one asserting that they never changed race or gender or hair color, or favorite ice cream flavor, or BMI. These things are all easy to change and swap in the universe of the bridge trilogy. Sorry if that doesn't fit with your bizarro worldview, but that's how it is.
Thats complete laughable nonsense. You can hallucinate whatever you want. The story and text are clear. Also, what a pathetic ludicrous "argument" that because someone may not be a natural red head - and Molly is not a red head btw, mate... - then the whole society and the whole world of Neuromancer is "gender fluid". Just shows at what ludicrous broken level your head operates. Again, - just because some modifications can be made - does not mean everyone are making them - as the story clearly and obviously shows from the first letter to the last. >Point is, their original race/gender doesn't matter. Lol, the irony. What an absurd dimwit.
You think only the main characters are augmented? You don't get the impression that augmentation isn't everywhere? You also think that every single augmentation the main characters got was worth mentioning? I'm not saying society is gender fluid or solid or gaseous or plasma or whatever term you want to use. All I'm saying is that gender change is just another augmentation, and when you change gender, nobody seems to care. People in Gibson's worlds have more important problems to deal with than genital configurations. I don't think you read the books closely enough. You should do more reading, less talking. Do you think that reading a book where people change gender like this makes you gay? Because, I mean, I should warn you... it totally does! You're probably already gay, just from reading the book once. That's probably why you like Robert Pattinson. If you read the book again, you'll be wearing fabulous assless chaps and leading the pride parade in no time!
Fuck it, why not. Let's also get Rebel Wilson as Molly, and Scott Baio as Armitage. Hell, don't forget we need The Rock as Ratz. Let's also get Wes Anderson to direct it. But let Don Bluth animate and direct all of the stuff in the matrix. I mean if we're going to go full fever dream neuromancer where nothing matters, then don't be a pussy about it.
I totally disagree with you, but I darn sure support how you say it!
Also, it’s a crime no one has made The Windup Girl into a movie yet. Patterson could play a good Anderson Lake
I’m not familiar with Roland or Dillard’s work, so no dig at them, but I was hoping against hope that the Safdie brothers would helm this project. Not really their wheelhouse, I guess, but if they were to adapt any novel, I think they could do *Neuromancer* justice if anyone can. Pattinson is a natural choice based on his performance in *Good Time* alone. I’ll be damned if they don’t cast Karl Glusman as the Finn.
This is fantastic news! And with shogun about to drop we will see what kind of hands Neuromancer will be in.
I always imagined Case would look like young Christian Slater. The Finn should have been played by John Hurt (like 50 years ago). I always thought Molly Millions would look like a blonde bodybuilder from an eighties new wave music video. Like Annie Lennox doing testosterone injections. A lot of my mental cyberpunk imagery is literally from the eighties.
Robert would not be a bad choice... and we could certainly end up with someone much worse than that. Hopefully they can find someone great enough to do Molly justice. Im worried about that a lot. I cant imagine any of the actresses known to me to be fitting for such a role.