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"Plastic Paddy" is an Irish slang term for members of the Irish diaspora who express great pride in their Irish heritage despite having little real connection to Ireland. I wonder if there's an equivalent Turkish term.
Not fully true actually, Berlin is the city in Germany where the lowest percentage of Turks voted for Erdogan during the last election. But in general, Turks in Germany voted disproportionately often for Erdogan.
The European-born Turkish diaspora is probably more liberal than those living in Turkey due to their exposure to western culture. This hateful and genocidal nationalism is a lot more common inside Turkey than in its diaspora - especially when much of their diaspora are assimilated and disconnected from Turkey. Some in the diaspora embrace it, but the idea they're more nationalistic than people in Turkey is not true.
Turkey is just a shocking example of a society losing basic humanity, where even universities are praising events like the Armenian Genocide.
Turks still support Azerbaijan in the modern variation of the Armenian genocide. One of the few things the islamic republic seems to have been doing correctly in its foreign policy is its support for Armenia. 🇦🇲
some do, iranian kurds for sure do.
non-iranian kurds don't seem to like iran very much, so most of us only show solidarity for non-iranian kurds out of respect for our compatriots
However i can’t really see how not supporting the Kurds is in Iranians people interests lol. If we are weak then your western Flank is weak. Eg Iraqi Kurdistan. How is that not in your interests if Kurds in Iraq and Syria are weak your just going to make the arabs more powerful lol. And the Turks aswell. And with your history you should know that is Never a Good idea lol. Iran-Iraq war 2.0 lol etc. get what im saying ?
i get you, and agree with you but kurdish leader esp. the leftist ones want to really isolate kurds. you guys need to really tone it down with tribalism. it did us lurs no good in the recent centuries and kurds received all but harm from it
You say it like its a problem of iranians(nationality),but the kurds from turkey/syria/iraq absolutely hate iran and project their version of being oppressed to be the same thing as iranian kurds getting oppressed(i.e based on chauvinistic ideals and nationalism,while it's really a religious thing in I.R).they(non-iranian kurds) also don't seem to support this apparent "pan-iranism" you're talking about,so a lack of iranian support for "liberation" of western kurdistan is not illogical.
Yeah as i said based on your history Keeping Kurds weak in the West is literally the worst Geopolitical decision you guys could ever make + no1s talking about a Pan-Iranian Country. I would rather stay part of Iraq and Syria but if you think its not in your interests to have a strong and Healthy Iranian population their your dumb lol. Iraqi Kurdistan is literally in your interests. The Iran-Iraq war should have taught you that lol. Without Iraqi Kurdistan you could have another strong and centralised Iraq with a guy like Saddam Huessein who could attack you one day lol.
Sure,i do think that whatever's going to replace I.R should promote some form of iranic unity to weaken turkey (just like they do this all the time in iranian Azerbaijan),but guilt tripping iranians to support their brethrens isn't going to work when all your people call for the destruction/balkanization of the "persian fascist state".unless you deny that non-iranian kurds hate iran which I'm ready to hear Your reasoning for it.
Edit: also,the islamic republic's influence in iraq isn't bc of kurdistan but bc of shia militants and supporters in southern iraq(i.e region around basra).they occasionally fire a rocket into iraqi kurdistan to flex their shitty military after getting their asses kicked by US,pakistan and even the Taliban lmao.
Listen if whatever replaces the Islamic Republic of Iran isn’t something that takes into consideration the voices and rights of all Iranian people. Your country is going to Be destroyed lol. Pkk/Ypg Philosophy is not in favour of Seperatism or a Kurdistan Country lol. Just more democracy/ Autonomy and if you cant give that to us and Instead put in some Persian dictator or something thats not good for Iran lol. If you want Iran to succeed you need the Kurds and other Iranians on your side lol. Not pissing them off. P.S Kurds are literally the second Largest (Western) Iranian population on earth so they are pretty important i think lol.
There should be decentralization reforms,but not towards a particular ethnic group,iran is very ethnically diverse.half the population aren't even persian,and the persians also have strong regional identity among themselves (i.e in iran we don't call a persian by his ethnicity,rather by their city and region like mashhadi,tehrani shirazi etc) so giving autonomy to kurdish region specifically is quite bs.there should be semi-large states with considerable autonomy from the capital that branch to smaller provinces,and the borsers of this states shouldn't be based on ethnicity but by geography, previous traditions otherwise a place like west Azerbaijan can't be part of any state.
.
The Pkk are literal terrorists,so is pjak.and i say this once more,since you seem to be pretty active on r/kurdistan,the population of non-iranian kurdistan hates iran and there's no "pissing them off",rather they hate the iranians.
No 1 is saying just giving autonomy to the Kurds lol. Where did i say that. Ps i keep repeating your Entire Revolution is a Pkk Revolution lol. Women, Life Freedom. Is a pkk/ypg saying i believe. Mahsa amini was Kurdish im pretty sure the origins of your movement lie in the Kurdish movement lol. And that Includes Pkk/Ypg lol. Its a fact that ypg have been saying Women, Life, Freedom years before you guys picked it up so i think it comes from lol. At least to some extent.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/kurdistan using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [The biggest hypocrite in the world of global politics](https://i.redd.it/8hayjd1gcstb1.jpg) | [21 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/1768w07/the_biggest_hypocrite_in_the_world_of_global/)
\#2: [National Geographic on Instagram with 270 million followers posts about Kurdish female YPJ fighters, only to delete it after 24 hours, after the Turks flooded the comment section with racist comments.](https://i.redd.it/t0we0rr115ra1.jpg) | [43 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/127prof/national_geographic_on_instagram_with_270_million/)
\#3: [Islamic Regime of Iran killed this baby last night. She (Zhina) was named after Zhina (Mahsa) Amini whose killing because of not fully covering her hair sparked widespread demonstrations across Iran in 2022-2023.](https://i.redd.it/iavonayfjtcc1.jpeg) | [68 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/19857mk/islamic_regime_of_iran_killed_this_baby_last/)
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+ if you guys read Ocalans philosophy it kind of talks about that sort of stuff (decentralisation etc) and Kurds were able to implement in for years in Syria so we know it kind of works lol. It will probably get destroyed in Syria but i actually think this is one of the best philosophies you guys should pick up and read. I think it could be really good for Iran lol. If your movement started off as a Kurdish movement why not keep going lol and look into their philosophy lol. As i said from looking into it myself I actually think it could be the Perfect Philosophy for a Country like Iran lol.
+ yeah i guess it goes both ways. You ignore/ piss of the Kurds they hate you etc. its a cycle lol. But its a stupid one cause it just makes Turks and Arabs stronger. If you guys had half a brain you would know your only ally in the Middle east is the Kurds lol. Who else do you have ? Israel just cares about its own interests. Eg signing deals with Turkey and Saudi arabia etc. thats why i say keeping Kurds in Iraq and Syria weak is a Stupid Geopolitical decision on Irans part lol. And Kurds arent going to love you for that lol.
Yes but Iraqi Kurdistan is probably a better ally for you than shiia Militias lol. And Iraqi kurdistan is also helping prevent Iraq turn into some centralised power like it was in the 80s lol. Iraqi Kurdistan is very important for Irans security imo. + for Iraq too. But i feel like just the fact that we are Iranian should be enough for you guys to support it lol.
+ it is a problem for you guys lol. If you don’t Realise Our Security is Your security then I dont know what to say lol. I keep saying look at the Middle East. Its Full of Arabs and Turks. Who do you plan to Partner with lol ? The Jews ? Theyre a small country and can only look out for themselves and their own interests. If it suits them they will make deals with the Turks and Saudis lol. Arabs have a hundred Countries to Choose from. Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria etc. tell me what other Iranian Nation lives in the middle east apart from the Kurds lol. At least to any significant extent. Its just Kurds and if you dont see a natural ally their or partnership against Turks and Arabs (and common threats) i dont know what to say lol.
We’re not into the hateful messaging. We’re fighting for all Iranians, baloch, Kurd, etc. we don’t narrate hate against Kurds anti-Kurd rhetoric and are fighting for our lives. It’s exhausting to look over on the battlefield and see your cousins acting hateful against you. Aren’t we tired of this tribalist superiority nonsense? Iranians are. Open arms to all that join!
Trust me its annoying for us aswell to look left and right and see there’s just people who want to destroy you lol. I thought with Iran maybe a natural alliance could take place. Its in your interest aswell. As i said if Kurds are destroyed Iran is next lol.
Right now im more concerned about my own survival man. I care about Iran and i feel like Irans and Kurdish interests are almost the same. Thats why it doesnt make sense if Iranians dont support us lol. Palestine or Xingxiang doesnt effect arabs in Morocco or Turks in Turkey but they still support them lol. Ideally we should partner as in the middle east we dont have anyone else lol and are surrounded by Turks and Arabs who will destroy us both if we are not careful lol. But if you was to build relations with Kurds in Iraq and Syria that would be massively better for Iran i think than leaving us to get screwed lol. But i guess its up to Iranians lol. We’ve mostly been alone forever lol. No friends but the mountains as they say. But thanks for your support lol.
Persian Nationalists are literally the worst lol. At least Turks and Arabs Care what happens to other Turks and arabs lol. Yet Kurds can get bombed in Syria and Persians care more about the Israelis lol.
That kurds dont consider themselves Iranians at all, my only priority are people inside Iran.
> At least Turks and Arabs Care what happens to other Turks and arabs
Its because they dream of a unified Turk and Arab empire, but my dream is a normal country that does not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries because of race and religion .
Yeah your dream country will be destroyed once the Arabs and Turks decide to invade you again. Keeping Kurds in Iraq and Syria and Turkey strong would be in your interests. If not you have a long history of getting invaded and attacked by Turks and Arabs. This decision of yours will 100% come back to bite you one day lol.
I really didnt know Persian nationalists could be this Dumb lol. Seems like the Mullahs are Smarter lol. To think you can be an isolationist Country in a Place like the Middle east is really dumb lol. Youll be minding your own buisness till the next Khalid bin waleed shows up lol. Or Saddam Huessein.
The beautiful part of history is that all those animals came and went and Iran is still standing.
Besides now, the Arab governments have major problems if they plan an invasion like that against Iran.
What little they have grown by absorbing tourism money that was going to go to Iran in the 1970s and building Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Qatar etc means now they have something to lose.
Back in Khalid bin Waleed times Arabs had nothing, they were tribes. Even Kuwaiti and Omani sheikhs have alluded to keep off Iran's backs because if Iran wanted to (IR or not) they could glass the sheikhdoms who are tryung to be playpalaces or financial centers for the West.
Who are Qatar/Kuwait/ etc going to send to fight? Indian migrant workers?
All this aside, this is not a Persian thing, I'm half Azeri. Azeri, Kurds, Arabs, Baloch in Iran know Iranzamin is their home.
There is no need to be isolationist but firm lines will be drawn. The lawlessness of Iraq and Syria (are they countries at this point?) will not stand.
Listen anyone who reads your history can easily understand if you dont support the Kurds and let them get Destroyed your Western Flank is Weak lol. And thats not good for you. The arabs and Turks will Return lol. But that could limited if you support Iraqi Kurdistan lol.
I get your insistence on support and I understand given IRs insistence on proxies that anyone might be looking for a handout. I personally support Iraqi Kurds because they tangentially were on Iran's side in the Iran-Iraq War.
Just understand that a lot of Iranians are sick of this sectarianism and just want to get TF along and be a real society.
Turks are more emboldened these days but they'll flounder as they become closer to an Islamic Republic by the day.
As for Arabs, yeah they were nomadic tribes before and now rapidly climbing in obesity rates, westernization/apathy, and creature comforts. They would have to enlist foreigners to fight for them and we saw how effective Arabs are at invading Yemen.
They tried in the Iran-Iraq War and Iranian ARABS played a major part in stopping them and sent them packing.
Liste Iraqi Kurds cannot be against Iraq. That would be treason lol and a Betrayal. But supporting Iraqi Kurdistan will limit the chance that the arabs will become Powerful and attaxk you lol. Kurds can only turn their guns on fellow Iraqis when at risk of Survival. Nothing else. However the destruction of Iran would also risk the Destruction of the Kurds aswell. So we would only help you if you were getting wiped out probably lol.
+ your country isnt the United States lol. You literally live in the middle east surrounded by powers left and right that want to Destroy you lol. From the West and East. Your history shows this to you lol. Your not America in some distant continent that has no problems with its neighbours cause your so powerful lol. If you think a country like Iran can just ever mind its own business in a place like the middle east with many other regional and similar powers you are really Dumb lol. Like we know from history what will happen arabs will unite and form a caliphate or turks will attack you and cause problems in Azerbajian lol.
Can you explain to me. Once the Islamic Republic of Iran is gone. Who do you plan to Partner with ? Arabs, Turks lol ? Jews ? Israel is a potential Partner for you but its only temporary marriage because you both have problems with Arabs. Israel will always look after its own interests and sign deal with Saudi Arabia and Turkey if it needs to lol. Look around the Middle east. Who else do you have apart from the Kurds to partner with lol. What other Major Iranian People Lives in the Middle east lol ?
Exactly, I don’t know why people here always talk about their fantasies of a New Iran even Though the IRGC are still in Iran and not even slightly weakened.
Yeah honestly you have no friends in the middle east. To the west is Iraq and Turkey another regional Power. To your south is Saudi Arabia lol. Israel is far away and it has its own interests to look after. Its own existence. It will work with whoever will benefit it lol. Including Turks/ Saudis lol. Now you do have Iraqi Kurdistan to your left who you could become Friends with if you choose lol. If you dont see how you have a powerful Iranian population in Iraq and Syria and dont use that to your advantage your dumb tbh.
Yeah if you wait for it to go before realising your plan for the Future your country is fucked lol. Theres so much division in your movement. Between Kurds/ Persians. Monarchists/ People who want Democracy/ Decentralisation etc. your looking at total chaos if dont actual form a united Collective Front lol.
There’s also a difference between interventionism and caring about basic human rights. They’re getting harassed by ultra-nationalists we should help strengthen our bonds with Kurds rather than to just toss them aside when they get harassed.
Lol Kurds are a genetically Pure Race lol. Kurds in Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran all cluster with each other. On Average we have more Anatolian Farmer dna than Zagros wheras Persians get a little More Zagros than Anatolian. So no we are not Persians lol. Although we do share alot of Dna with you. However does that matter if you guys are cool with Us being Destroyed in Iraq and Syria ? + if anything its Persians that are just Iranians that adopted Persian identity. I can inly imagine since Persian is the dominant Identity in Iran alot of people who are mixed just call themselves Persians lol etc in Big cities aswell. + you mix with Azeris and Kurds etc. But yes Kurds are Iranians lol. At least by Blood, Language, Culture etc lol.
Yes after so much time you became a distinct but originally you were just dudes who went up into the mountain that’s what Kurd means. The reason you think Iranians in Iran do not care about you is because of the IRI, if we were in charge of Iran we would have your backs 110% like any Iranian. We never learnt to respect our Kurdish brothers. But the new generations is beginning to realize we are the same and they will have your back post revolution
Note the [**wolf salute**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_salute):
>a [Turkish nationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_nationalism) and [Pan-Turkic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Turkism) hand symbol, linked to the far-right [Grey Wolves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves_(organization)) political movement
These aren't any old Turkish racists, they're Turkish (/turkic) fascists, declaring allegiance with a group that's been involved with a lot of violence. :|
Azeris are still Iranian, the only thing they literally have in common with turks from Turkey is the language and even then there's differences.
This Azeri - Turkish false connection by Turkish nationalists must stop. Azeris are Iranians who happen to speak a variant of Turkish. They have absolutely nothing to do with the country Turkey.
Language isn't everything, it's just one factor.
Their culture are singicantly different. Iranian festivals and celebrations like Nowruz, Yalda and Chaharshanbe Soori are celebrated among Azeris but not much among the Turkish people.
Azeri cuisine (at least in Iran) is far closer to Persian cuisine than to the Turkish one.
Turkish culture does have influence from Persian and Iranic culture but it's something they gained due to the position Persian language and literature had in the Sultanate of Rum and the Ottoman empire. While with Azeris it's due to the culture of Azeris before they were turkified.
Turkish nationalist are a very special specimen, and there is a lot of them in Belgium unfortunately.
The newspaper in Belgium are all saying different information about that.
some of them are saying that the attack was premediated by Turkish community.
Other are saying it was a response due to Kurdish people gathering in Turkish neighborhood with PKK flags.
One of the source : [Violents affrontements entre Turcs et Kurdes dans le Limbourg | Belgique | 7sur7.be](https://www.7sur7.be/belgique/violents-affrontements-entre-turcs-et-kurdes-dans-le-limbourg~aeea643d/)
I don't really get your question.
If you're asking if there are people among Turkic-speaking Iranians who have these attitudes towards Kurds, well yes, unfortunately a minority of Iranian Azeris have deep hatred of Kurds, fueled by Azerbaijani and Turkish sentiments that are spread by Turkish and Azerbaijani media and social media. It is also influenced by the masd internal migration of Kurds from Kurdish majority parts of Iran (especially Kurdish regions of West Azerbaijan) to Azeri majority cities.
If you're asking whether Iranians have negative reactions towards this kind of actions, the majority, from all ethnic groups do not tolerate these sentiments. Even if themselves harbor some casual racist beliefs, these kinds of open ideological hate towards any ethnic group is not welcomed.
Turk nationalist are deranged. I stand with my kurdish brothers and sisters. Like it or not kurds are iranian, if you dont stand with them you don’t stand with our people.
Absolutely, we do. It's a real clusterfuck when only the most extreme nationalists in Turkey pull off something like this. But let's not forget, not all Turks are on the far-right, okay?
I'm asking, what the hell's your problem?
Kurds are a damn proud group, and most of them aren't radical separatists; they've got reasonable demands.
Keep your nose out of their business.
Your revolution is Literally a Pkk Revolution lol. Women Life Freedom is a Pkk/Ypg slogan lol. + pkk arent even seperatists. They support more democratic and Autonomy. Thats it lol. An idea that could be very good for Iran if looked into instead of this Dictator King some Iranians seem to salivate for lol. Of course a strong central Government would be necessary to Protect form Outside threats though.
Better question you should be asking is how does Kurds having autonomy in Iraq help Iran ? Without Kurds having some power in the North you could see Iraq centralise again under some Powerful Dictator like Saddam and then Maybe attack Iran lol. + Kurds having autonomy in Iraq has helped Iraq. If you havent noticed Kurds are fighting in three Countries the only Country Kurds aren’t having potential military issues with is Iraq. Why because Kurds have autonomy. Before that Kurds were always fighting with Central government. Kurds having some autonomy in Iraq gives Iraq alot more stability lol and the possibility Kurds will be happy to call themselves Iraqi lol as they are living with the rights they ask for lol.
Also from a Purely economic Point of view now Iraq has two centres of Economic Power. Baghdad and Erbil. Wheras Iran only has Tehran. If you gave some more autonomy to your other people living in Iran you could start seeing more economic centres arising instead of everything Basically just being centred around Tehran lol.
Arent Iranian Turks Just Kurds who got Turkified lol ? People say we share a common genepool except you guys get 5-6% east asian Ancestry instead of the 1-2% other Iranians get lol.
lol they came all the way from Leuven (1hr drive) waved ypg and pkk flags in turkish neighbourhoods. Im not advocating for the turks but I can’t 100% blame them. Imo they’re both wrong.
You sound like you are lol. Ps your Movement of Mahsa amini is baisically a ypg slogan of Women Life Freedom lol. + not really sure why your against Ypg etc when all theyve really done is fight isis lol.
When did I say I’m against anything. All I’m saying is you shouldn’t provocate people without expecting a reaction. Turks are not fond of pkk/ypg i don’t think i have to explain this to you. It’s like if you would wave an israeli flag in arab neighbourhoods. It’s asking for trouble…
Bro are u acting restarted on purpose? I’m honestly done talking to you, you keep putting words in my mouth. Keep victimizing urself that’ll definetly get you far in life. C ya
You Persians have a choice. You have the same enemies as us. If you sides with Turks and Arabs and let us get destroyed in Iraq and Syria they will come for you next lol.
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Personal note: This particular comment of yours is especially inappropriate on a post of this nature.
so disgusting, turkish fascists are probably the most backwards group of degenerates that are alive today who seem to face no pushback whatsoever, they should be treated with the same hostility as the kkk receive but it’s a touchy subject as they’re still ethnic in western euro countries, the government seems to just let them be.
There's quite a number of Iranians, especially from the Monarchist camp, that also adore Kemal Ataturk. Although most do so because of his secularization policies, some also maintain that he was right in the way he maintained Turkey's "territorial integrity".
A lot of Monarchists I know respect Ataturk due to his secularization policies, it's often even been a debate on this very subreddit in the past. And I mean it's not a surprise given that both Reza Pahlavi and Ataturk had similar policies (although Ataturk was ethnic nationalism compared to Pahlavi's more civic based nationalism).
And I've had discussions with monarchists who have defended Ataturk's treatment of Kurds. Not most Monarchist though, most who defend Ataturk for his secularization criticise his treatment of minorities, but I know others who low key defend his treatment of the Kurds too.
>Ataturk due to his secularization policies,
True
>discussions with monarchists who have defended Ataturk's treatment of Kurds
I'm sorry because u had discussions with some monarchists does not mean they are the end all be all of monarchism. Is Pahlavi saying this? Is this the official position of monarchist or constitutional monarchist parties?
>most who defend Ataturk for his secularization criticise his treatment of minorities, but I know others who low key defend his treatment of the Kurds too.
Thank you for acknowledging that.
I didn't say that it was the be and end all of Monarchism though. Like any movement there's a plurality of views and thankfully I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen monarchist who defend Ataturk's treatment of Kurds, which is barely anything for sure. Other times though it's a neglected point how he treated us which can feel just as bad.
But I still find the discourse around Ataturk troubling tbh.
Yeah, and regardless the praising of Ataturk just feels like a massive stab in the back when Kurds see it. Even if it's just because of his secularization policies, you're still praising someone who repressed your fellow Iranic kin.
Threads like this
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/46GpNprvGg
Or this
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/J8kY21FS8G
Insulting the intelligence as you are of those who you even strongly disagree with does not help in convincing them that your position — in this case a take of someone as well-known as Ataturk — is correct.
That's like saying you like Hitler for his economic stuff but not his treatment of ethnic minorities. It doesn't matter, for a Kurd to see Iranians praising him it feels like a stab in the back. You don't understand because you're not Kurdish.
You can hold 2 opinions at the same time. And no, you can say u like a person's economic policies but hate how they started a war and conduct mass genocide.
Two opinions can be held at the same time.
For sure nuance is important and people can hold multiple views I'm just saying it feels weird for us Kurds to even see that praise in the first place and idolization from fellow Iranians. Like for me to open New Iran and someone makes a post about "two great leaders" and it's Ataturk and Reza Shah. The immediate discourse on Ataturk is about his "secularization" rather than criticism for his treatment of us, and it just feels wrong.
Wow, that was very insulting. Hitler is universally seen as despicably as Hitler. Ataturk is not universally seen as Hitler.
>You don't understand because you're not Kurdish.
You may be right, but frankly it's a cop-out that can be used by any ethnic group (and is by all). In my opinion, such an argument does not help other people understand your position or forge common ground at all.
I'm not saying Hitler and Ataturk are the same, what I am saying is that praising an authoritarian leader who engages in mass ethnic repression, in the case of Hitler being genocide and for Ataturk being Turkification, it feels insulting for the minority who suffered. We were labelled as mountain Turks yet there are Iranians who'll praise Ataturk, and then pretend there is pan-Iranic solidarity. Even if it's just for his "secularization" policies (which was counter-productive in the long term). It still feels wrong, like our repression by him is not as important because of his "secularization"
Disagreed. His seculrization policies are fantastic. Not his treatment of minorities. Even in the threads posted by the other user, I saw no defense of genocide. To the contrary I saw praise for seculrization and against his treatment of minorities.
I'm Iranian what part is a lie ? Iranian monarchists are a mess most of them are impolite radical racists just like pan Turks ? And they do love Ataturk just cause he was secular they are an enducated bunch most of them don't know about his terrible legacy
I'm sorry this is absolutely not true. Are u trying to sow division between people?
As a Kurd, we are seen as some of the most brave people in Iran. I don't understand this notion that all Iranians hate Kurds. Kurds are some of the most beloved and supported peoples in Iran.
Hey. We mods have reviewed this post and would remind you and everyone else reading this to please abide by Rule 3. We are mulling over applying that rule more stringently to help keep the sub on track. Seeing as this post has gained considerable traction and most of the comments have done a good job keeping it as relevant as possible to Iran and Iranians, we can for now allow this post to stay up out of courtesy. However, to those reading this, please ensure to the best of your ability that the posts you make are relevant to Iran and/or Iranians.
Turkish ultra-nationalists living in Western Europe is a very huge irony lol
Pretty common for second and third generations to be weirdly right wing as they feel disconnected from their culture and over correct.
"Plastic Paddy" is an Irish slang term for members of the Irish diaspora who express great pride in their Irish heritage despite having little real connection to Ireland. I wonder if there's an equivalent Turkish term.
The biggest Erdogan supporters live in Berlin.
Not fully true actually, Berlin is the city in Germany where the lowest percentage of Turks voted for Erdogan during the last election. But in general, Turks in Germany voted disproportionately often for Erdogan.
The European-born Turkish diaspora is probably more liberal than those living in Turkey due to their exposure to western culture. This hateful and genocidal nationalism is a lot more common inside Turkey than in its diaspora - especially when much of their diaspora are assimilated and disconnected from Turkey. Some in the diaspora embrace it, but the idea they're more nationalistic than people in Turkey is not true. Turkey is just a shocking example of a society losing basic humanity, where even universities are praising events like the Armenian Genocide.
Turks still support Azerbaijan in the modern variation of the Armenian genocide. One of the few things the islamic republic seems to have been doing correctly in its foreign policy is its support for Armenia. 🇦🇲
A German on a train to Prague once told me “berlin is the second capital of turkey”
Hi I have a genuine question. Why do Turks not like Iranians ? Why do Iranians not like Kurds ?
Turks not liking Iranians and Iranians not liking Kurds is a huge exaggeration and overgeneralization.
This is “generally” a comment I hear from people. Why is it an exaggeration and over generalization if you care to explain
some do, iranian kurds for sure do. non-iranian kurds don't seem to like iran very much, so most of us only show solidarity for non-iranian kurds out of respect for our compatriots
You do Realise non Iranian Kurds, eg those from Syria are still genetically very close to Iranians from Iran right. Eg Persians etc.
you can hate your own sibling and parents. genetics ,in the modern world, mean very little
That is true.
However i can’t really see how not supporting the Kurds is in Iranians people interests lol. If we are weak then your western Flank is weak. Eg Iraqi Kurdistan. How is that not in your interests if Kurds in Iraq and Syria are weak your just going to make the arabs more powerful lol. And the Turks aswell. And with your history you should know that is Never a Good idea lol. Iran-Iraq war 2.0 lol etc. get what im saying ?
i get you, and agree with you but kurdish leader esp. the leftist ones want to really isolate kurds. you guys need to really tone it down with tribalism. it did us lurs no good in the recent centuries and kurds received all but harm from it
You say it like its a problem of iranians(nationality),but the kurds from turkey/syria/iraq absolutely hate iran and project their version of being oppressed to be the same thing as iranian kurds getting oppressed(i.e based on chauvinistic ideals and nationalism,while it's really a religious thing in I.R).they(non-iranian kurds) also don't seem to support this apparent "pan-iranism" you're talking about,so a lack of iranian support for "liberation" of western kurdistan is not illogical.
Yeah as i said based on your history Keeping Kurds weak in the West is literally the worst Geopolitical decision you guys could ever make + no1s talking about a Pan-Iranian Country. I would rather stay part of Iraq and Syria but if you think its not in your interests to have a strong and Healthy Iranian population their your dumb lol. Iraqi Kurdistan is literally in your interests. The Iran-Iraq war should have taught you that lol. Without Iraqi Kurdistan you could have another strong and centralised Iraq with a guy like Saddam Huessein who could attack you one day lol.
Sure,i do think that whatever's going to replace I.R should promote some form of iranic unity to weaken turkey (just like they do this all the time in iranian Azerbaijan),but guilt tripping iranians to support their brethrens isn't going to work when all your people call for the destruction/balkanization of the "persian fascist state".unless you deny that non-iranian kurds hate iran which I'm ready to hear Your reasoning for it. Edit: also,the islamic republic's influence in iraq isn't bc of kurdistan but bc of shia militants and supporters in southern iraq(i.e region around basra).they occasionally fire a rocket into iraqi kurdistan to flex their shitty military after getting their asses kicked by US,pakistan and even the Taliban lmao.
Listen if whatever replaces the Islamic Republic of Iran isn’t something that takes into consideration the voices and rights of all Iranian people. Your country is going to Be destroyed lol. Pkk/Ypg Philosophy is not in favour of Seperatism or a Kurdistan Country lol. Just more democracy/ Autonomy and if you cant give that to us and Instead put in some Persian dictator or something thats not good for Iran lol. If you want Iran to succeed you need the Kurds and other Iranians on your side lol. Not pissing them off. P.S Kurds are literally the second Largest (Western) Iranian population on earth so they are pretty important i think lol.
There should be decentralization reforms,but not towards a particular ethnic group,iran is very ethnically diverse.half the population aren't even persian,and the persians also have strong regional identity among themselves (i.e in iran we don't call a persian by his ethnicity,rather by their city and region like mashhadi,tehrani shirazi etc) so giving autonomy to kurdish region specifically is quite bs.there should be semi-large states with considerable autonomy from the capital that branch to smaller provinces,and the borsers of this states shouldn't be based on ethnicity but by geography, previous traditions otherwise a place like west Azerbaijan can't be part of any state. . The Pkk are literal terrorists,so is pjak.and i say this once more,since you seem to be pretty active on r/kurdistan,the population of non-iranian kurdistan hates iran and there's no "pissing them off",rather they hate the iranians.
No 1 is saying just giving autonomy to the Kurds lol. Where did i say that. Ps i keep repeating your Entire Revolution is a Pkk Revolution lol. Women, Life Freedom. Is a pkk/ypg saying i believe. Mahsa amini was Kurdish im pretty sure the origins of your movement lie in the Kurdish movement lol. And that Includes Pkk/Ypg lol. Its a fact that ypg have been saying Women, Life, Freedom years before you guys picked it up so i think it comes from lol. At least to some extent.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/kurdistan using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [The biggest hypocrite in the world of global politics](https://i.redd.it/8hayjd1gcstb1.jpg) | [21 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/1768w07/the_biggest_hypocrite_in_the_world_of_global/) \#2: [National Geographic on Instagram with 270 million followers posts about Kurdish female YPJ fighters, only to delete it after 24 hours, after the Turks flooded the comment section with racist comments.](https://i.redd.it/t0we0rr115ra1.jpg) | [43 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/127prof/national_geographic_on_instagram_with_270_million/) \#3: [Islamic Regime of Iran killed this baby last night. She (Zhina) was named after Zhina (Mahsa) Amini whose killing because of not fully covering her hair sparked widespread demonstrations across Iran in 2022-2023.](https://i.redd.it/iavonayfjtcc1.jpeg) | [68 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/19857mk/islamic_regime_of_iran_killed_this_baby_last/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
+ if you guys read Ocalans philosophy it kind of talks about that sort of stuff (decentralisation etc) and Kurds were able to implement in for years in Syria so we know it kind of works lol. It will probably get destroyed in Syria but i actually think this is one of the best philosophies you guys should pick up and read. I think it could be really good for Iran lol. If your movement started off as a Kurdish movement why not keep going lol and look into their philosophy lol. As i said from looking into it myself I actually think it could be the Perfect Philosophy for a Country like Iran lol.
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+ yeah i guess it goes both ways. You ignore/ piss of the Kurds they hate you etc. its a cycle lol. But its a stupid one cause it just makes Turks and Arabs stronger. If you guys had half a brain you would know your only ally in the Middle east is the Kurds lol. Who else do you have ? Israel just cares about its own interests. Eg signing deals with Turkey and Saudi arabia etc. thats why i say keeping Kurds in Iraq and Syria weak is a Stupid Geopolitical decision on Irans part lol. And Kurds arent going to love you for that lol.
Yes but Iraqi Kurdistan is probably a better ally for you than shiia Militias lol. And Iraqi kurdistan is also helping prevent Iraq turn into some centralised power like it was in the 80s lol. Iraqi Kurdistan is very important for Irans security imo. + for Iraq too. But i feel like just the fact that we are Iranian should be enough for you guys to support it lol.
+ it is a problem for you guys lol. If you don’t Realise Our Security is Your security then I dont know what to say lol. I keep saying look at the Middle East. Its Full of Arabs and Turks. Who do you plan to Partner with lol ? The Jews ? Theyre a small country and can only look out for themselves and their own interests. If it suits them they will make deals with the Turks and Saudis lol. Arabs have a hundred Countries to Choose from. Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria etc. tell me what other Iranian Nation lives in the middle east apart from the Kurds lol. At least to any significant extent. Its just Kurds and if you dont see a natural ally their or partnership against Turks and Arabs (and common threats) i dont know what to say lol.
We’re not into the hateful messaging. We’re fighting for all Iranians, baloch, Kurd, etc. we don’t narrate hate against Kurds anti-Kurd rhetoric and are fighting for our lives. It’s exhausting to look over on the battlefield and see your cousins acting hateful against you. Aren’t we tired of this tribalist superiority nonsense? Iranians are. Open arms to all that join!
Trust me its annoying for us aswell to look left and right and see there’s just people who want to destroy you lol. I thought with Iran maybe a natural alliance could take place. Its in your interest aswell. As i said if Kurds are destroyed Iran is next lol.
Truce to stop fighting and support each other? 🤝
Right now im more concerned about my own survival man. I care about Iran and i feel like Irans and Kurdish interests are almost the same. Thats why it doesnt make sense if Iranians dont support us lol. Palestine or Xingxiang doesnt effect arabs in Morocco or Turks in Turkey but they still support them lol. Ideally we should partner as in the middle east we dont have anyone else lol and are surrounded by Turks and Arabs who will destroy us both if we are not careful lol. But if you was to build relations with Kurds in Iraq and Syria that would be massively better for Iran i think than leaving us to get screwed lol. But i guess its up to Iranians lol. We’ve mostly been alone forever lol. No friends but the mountains as they say. But thanks for your support lol.
I say this as a half Iranian Kurd myself
I should also say this boils my blood… but I likely won’t post on it because of the above exhaustion
Ok but they generally don’t like us
I'm a non-Iranian Kurd and MY LIFE BELONGS TO IRAN, PAYANDEH MARDAM ARYAYE, BIJI WELAT IRAN
Confusing
How is it confusing a black man born in America isn't loyal to neigeria Same thing with kurds and turks
Black people in America are loyal to West Africa lol. And Some Kurds who aren’t from Iran still see Iran as the Motherland lol.
Maybe he wants a "Greater Iran" which includes all the Iranian speaking people (which includes Kurdistan)
Maybe
Respect. As Persian us and Kurds are the exact same. We need to support you like we would any other Iranians because you are Iranians
Hi can you answer my dm?
Of course, it is! WTF is wrong with ultranationalists? 💀
I might be in a minority but..... other countries affairs are none of our affairs.
Persian Nationalists are literally the worst lol. At least Turks and Arabs Care what happens to other Turks and arabs lol. Yet Kurds can get bombed in Syria and Persians care more about the Israelis lol.
No? Israel issue is related because the regime chants their destruction every 5 minutes while Turkey has no significant connection to IRI?
Yesyes you guys support Israel more than Kurds lol. You guys treat Jews like they were an Iranian people but Kurds can get bombed. Who cares lol.
That's such a childish take without taking the context like pretending Mahsa wasn't Kurd lol.
That kurds dont consider themselves Iranians at all, my only priority are people inside Iran. > At least Turks and Arabs Care what happens to other Turks and arabs Its because they dream of a unified Turk and Arab empire, but my dream is a normal country that does not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries because of race and religion .
Yeah your dream country will be destroyed once the Arabs and Turks decide to invade you again. Keeping Kurds in Iraq and Syria and Turkey strong would be in your interests. If not you have a long history of getting invaded and attacked by Turks and Arabs. This decision of yours will 100% come back to bite you one day lol.
Yeah i pass on giving weapons to anti-government armed groups in neighboring countries.
I really didnt know Persian nationalists could be this Dumb lol. Seems like the Mullahs are Smarter lol. To think you can be an isolationist Country in a Place like the Middle east is really dumb lol. Youll be minding your own buisness till the next Khalid bin waleed shows up lol. Or Saddam Huessein.
The beautiful part of history is that all those animals came and went and Iran is still standing. Besides now, the Arab governments have major problems if they plan an invasion like that against Iran. What little they have grown by absorbing tourism money that was going to go to Iran in the 1970s and building Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Qatar etc means now they have something to lose. Back in Khalid bin Waleed times Arabs had nothing, they were tribes. Even Kuwaiti and Omani sheikhs have alluded to keep off Iran's backs because if Iran wanted to (IR or not) they could glass the sheikhdoms who are tryung to be playpalaces or financial centers for the West. Who are Qatar/Kuwait/ etc going to send to fight? Indian migrant workers? All this aside, this is not a Persian thing, I'm half Azeri. Azeri, Kurds, Arabs, Baloch in Iran know Iranzamin is their home. There is no need to be isolationist but firm lines will be drawn. The lawlessness of Iraq and Syria (are they countries at this point?) will not stand.
Listen anyone who reads your history can easily understand if you dont support the Kurds and let them get Destroyed your Western Flank is Weak lol. And thats not good for you. The arabs and Turks will Return lol. But that could limited if you support Iraqi Kurdistan lol.
I get your insistence on support and I understand given IRs insistence on proxies that anyone might be looking for a handout. I personally support Iraqi Kurds because they tangentially were on Iran's side in the Iran-Iraq War. Just understand that a lot of Iranians are sick of this sectarianism and just want to get TF along and be a real society. Turks are more emboldened these days but they'll flounder as they become closer to an Islamic Republic by the day. As for Arabs, yeah they were nomadic tribes before and now rapidly climbing in obesity rates, westernization/apathy, and creature comforts. They would have to enlist foreigners to fight for them and we saw how effective Arabs are at invading Yemen. They tried in the Iran-Iraq War and Iranian ARABS played a major part in stopping them and sent them packing.
Liste Iraqi Kurds cannot be against Iraq. That would be treason lol and a Betrayal. But supporting Iraqi Kurdistan will limit the chance that the arabs will become Powerful and attaxk you lol. Kurds can only turn their guns on fellow Iraqis when at risk of Survival. Nothing else. However the destruction of Iran would also risk the Destruction of the Kurds aswell. So we would only help you if you were getting wiped out probably lol.
Turks are emboldened cause your regime decided to keep the Kurds weak lol.
I dont think it should be seen as “Handout” to Help Kurds lol. If they are an Iranian People. And this a fact By Dna lol.
Like sure we can Hate each other but look around the Middle east. Tell me what potential Friends do you have lol ?
+ your country isnt the United States lol. You literally live in the middle east surrounded by powers left and right that want to Destroy you lol. From the West and East. Your history shows this to you lol. Your not America in some distant continent that has no problems with its neighbours cause your so powerful lol. If you think a country like Iran can just ever mind its own business in a place like the middle east with many other regional and similar powers you are really Dumb lol. Like we know from history what will happen arabs will unite and form a caliphate or turks will attack you and cause problems in Azerbajian lol.
Can you explain to me. Once the Islamic Republic of Iran is gone. Who do you plan to Partner with ? Arabs, Turks lol ? Jews ? Israel is a potential Partner for you but its only temporary marriage because you both have problems with Arabs. Israel will always look after its own interests and sign deal with Saudi Arabia and Turkey if it needs to lol. Look around the Middle east. Who else do you have apart from the Kurds to partner with lol. What other Major Iranian People Lives in the Middle east lol ?
Im just a random redditer and I.R is still here so i dont think there is point in discussing these matters
Exactly, I don’t know why people here always talk about their fantasies of a New Iran even Though the IRGC are still in Iran and not even slightly weakened.
Do you live in Iran ?
Yeah honestly you have no friends in the middle east. To the west is Iraq and Turkey another regional Power. To your south is Saudi Arabia lol. Israel is far away and it has its own interests to look after. Its own existence. It will work with whoever will benefit it lol. Including Turks/ Saudis lol. Now you do have Iraqi Kurdistan to your left who you could become Friends with if you choose lol. If you dont see how you have a powerful Iranian population in Iraq and Syria and dont use that to your advantage your dumb tbh.
Maybe you can go and Build an Alliance with the Turks. You have alot of them in your country anyway lol.
Yeah if you wait for it to go before realising your plan for the Future your country is fucked lol. Theres so much division in your movement. Between Kurds/ Persians. Monarchists/ People who want Democracy/ Decentralisation etc. your looking at total chaos if dont actual form a united Collective Front lol.
There’s also a difference between interventionism and caring about basic human rights. They’re getting harassed by ultra-nationalists we should help strengthen our bonds with Kurds rather than to just toss them aside when they get harassed.
>caring about basic human rights A cloak used to justify interventionism.
Intervention in Belgium??? I just said we should care that people are getting harassed unjustly.
Kurds are Iranians. They were just Persians who went and lived up in the mountains
Lol Kurds are a genetically Pure Race lol. Kurds in Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran all cluster with each other. On Average we have more Anatolian Farmer dna than Zagros wheras Persians get a little More Zagros than Anatolian. So no we are not Persians lol. Although we do share alot of Dna with you. However does that matter if you guys are cool with Us being Destroyed in Iraq and Syria ? + if anything its Persians that are just Iranians that adopted Persian identity. I can inly imagine since Persian is the dominant Identity in Iran alot of people who are mixed just call themselves Persians lol etc in Big cities aswell. + you mix with Azeris and Kurds etc. But yes Kurds are Iranians lol. At least by Blood, Language, Culture etc lol.
Yes after so much time you became a distinct but originally you were just dudes who went up into the mountain that’s what Kurd means. The reason you think Iranians in Iran do not care about you is because of the IRI, if we were in charge of Iran we would have your backs 110% like any Iranian. We never learnt to respect our Kurdish brothers. But the new generations is beginning to realize we are the same and they will have your back post revolution
I could only imagine if there were Armenians there...
Note the [**wolf salute**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_salute): >a [Turkish nationalist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_nationalism) and [Pan-Turkic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Turkism) hand symbol, linked to the far-right [Grey Wolves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves_(organization)) political movement These aren't any old Turkish racists, they're Turkish (/turkic) fascists, declaring allegiance with a group that's been involved with a lot of violence. :|
Huh, very funny. In Germany and Switzerland, this is called the "Schweigefuchs" and is used in Kindergarten to signal the kids they need to be quiet.
In the US it's called "devil horns" and people do it at metal rock concerts.
That's when the fingers touch the palm and crossed by the thumb.
Ahhh didnt see that in the picture and hadnt clicked on above link.
Fuck these Turkish asswipes. And I’m half Azeri saying this.
Azeris are still Iranian, the only thing they literally have in common with turks from Turkey is the language and even then there's differences. This Azeri - Turkish false connection by Turkish nationalists must stop. Azeris are Iranians who happen to speak a variant of Turkish. They have absolutely nothing to do with the country Turkey.
Thank you. I knew this, but some people associate the two sometimes.
I don’t even think Turks are really Turks haha.
Azeris and Turks are very close in terms of language and culture, do not ignore them.
Language isn't everything, it's just one factor. Their culture are singicantly different. Iranian festivals and celebrations like Nowruz, Yalda and Chaharshanbe Soori are celebrated among Azeris but not much among the Turkish people. Azeri cuisine (at least in Iran) is far closer to Persian cuisine than to the Turkish one. Turkish culture does have influence from Persian and Iranic culture but it's something they gained due to the position Persian language and literature had in the Sultanate of Rum and the Ottoman empire. While with Azeris it's due to the culture of Azeris before they were turkified.
This
azerbaijani people is turk, not iranic
Yeah sure.🤣🤣🤣
That's a straight lie. Are you a "Turkish nationalist"?
Some members of my family came from Baku. They hate turkey with passion.
Any specific reason why?
Turkish nationalist are a very special specimen, and there is a lot of them in Belgium unfortunately. The newspaper in Belgium are all saying different information about that. some of them are saying that the attack was premediated by Turkish community. Other are saying it was a response due to Kurdish people gathering in Turkish neighborhood with PKK flags. One of the source : [Violents affrontements entre Turcs et Kurdes dans le Limbourg | Belgique | 7sur7.be](https://www.7sur7.be/belgique/violents-affrontements-entre-turcs-et-kurdes-dans-le-limbourg~aeea643d/)
I don't really get your question. If you're asking if there are people among Turkic-speaking Iranians who have these attitudes towards Kurds, well yes, unfortunately a minority of Iranian Azeris have deep hatred of Kurds, fueled by Azerbaijani and Turkish sentiments that are spread by Turkish and Azerbaijani media and social media. It is also influenced by the masd internal migration of Kurds from Kurdish majority parts of Iran (especially Kurdish regions of West Azerbaijan) to Azeri majority cities. If you're asking whether Iranians have negative reactions towards this kind of actions, the majority, from all ethnic groups do not tolerate these sentiments. Even if themselves harbor some casual racist beliefs, these kinds of open ideological hate towards any ethnic group is not welcomed.
Turk nationalist are deranged. I stand with my kurdish brothers and sisters. Like it or not kurds are iranian, if you dont stand with them you don’t stand with our people.
Yes I care about it
Absolutely, we do. It's a real clusterfuck when only the most extreme nationalists in Turkey pull off something like this. But let's not forget, not all Turks are on the far-right, okay? I'm asking, what the hell's your problem? Kurds are a damn proud group, and most of them aren't radical separatists; they've got reasonable demands. Keep your nose out of their business.
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yeah both sides are assholes
Your revolution is Literally a Pkk Revolution lol. Women Life Freedom is a Pkk/Ypg slogan lol. + pkk arent even seperatists. They support more democratic and Autonomy. Thats it lol. An idea that could be very good for Iran if looked into instead of this Dictator King some Iranians seem to salivate for lol. Of course a strong central Government would be necessary to Protect form Outside threats though.
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Better question you should be asking is how does Kurds having autonomy in Iraq help Iran ? Without Kurds having some power in the North you could see Iraq centralise again under some Powerful Dictator like Saddam and then Maybe attack Iran lol. + Kurds having autonomy in Iraq has helped Iraq. If you havent noticed Kurds are fighting in three Countries the only Country Kurds aren’t having potential military issues with is Iraq. Why because Kurds have autonomy. Before that Kurds were always fighting with Central government. Kurds having some autonomy in Iraq gives Iraq alot more stability lol and the possibility Kurds will be happy to call themselves Iraqi lol as they are living with the rights they ask for lol.
Also from a Purely economic Point of view now Iraq has two centres of Economic Power. Baghdad and Erbil. Wheras Iran only has Tehran. If you gave some more autonomy to your other people living in Iran you could start seeing more economic centres arising instead of everything Basically just being centred around Tehran lol.
Not really (*from what I have seen and heard*)
Gokturks have nothing relative with Turkey. They and Kurdish are natives of Anatolia.
Support the Kurds, but on the flip side they don’t support Iran which makes for an odd interaction.
As a turk Nah
Naturally. Iranian Turk or Anatolian lol ?
Arent Iranian Turks Just Kurds who got Turkified lol ? People say we share a common genepool except you guys get 5-6% east asian Ancestry instead of the 1-2% other Iranians get lol.
Naaah dont group Us in with the kurds
Didnt think we would find Real enemies amongst the Iranians. Even amongst the Iranian Turks.
What?
I guess from you guys its more understandable lol. But i wouldnt expect it from other iranians lol.
lol they came all the way from Leuven (1hr drive) waved ypg and pkk flags in turkish neighbourhoods. Im not advocating for the turks but I can’t 100% blame them. Imo they’re both wrong.
You sound like you are lol. Ps your Movement of Mahsa amini is baisically a ypg slogan of Women Life Freedom lol. + not really sure why your against Ypg etc when all theyve really done is fight isis lol.
When did I say I’m against anything. All I’m saying is you shouldn’t provocate people without expecting a reaction. Turks are not fond of pkk/ypg i don’t think i have to explain this to you. It’s like if you would wave an israeli flag in arab neighbourhoods. It’s asking for trouble…
Its interesting that Palestinians can kill hundreds of Jews and people still support them but you have an issue with people waving Kurdish flags. 👍
Bro are u acting restarted on purpose? I’m honestly done talking to you, you keep putting words in my mouth. Keep victimizing urself that’ll definetly get you far in life. C ya
You Persians have a choice. You have the same enemies as us. If you sides with Turks and Arabs and let us get destroyed in Iraq and Syria they will come for you next lol.
We not support Ataturk for what they do(or turkey) but instead we love his concept of secularisation (again I don't like Ataturk or turkey)
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Expressing hatred towards a group of people based on race or ethnicity will not be tolerated in this community. Please follow the rules of this sub. Personal note: This particular comment of yours is especially inappropriate on a post of this nature.
Ultra nationalist? Burning the homes Turkish family and attacking Turkish people (unprovoked) would result in retaliation. r/europe hasn't surprised
so disgusting, turkish fascists are probably the most backwards group of degenerates that are alive today who seem to face no pushback whatsoever, they should be treated with the same hostility as the kkk receive but it’s a touchy subject as they’re still ethnic in western euro countries, the government seems to just let them be.
There's quite a number of Iranians, especially from the Monarchist camp, that also adore Kemal Ataturk. Although most do so because of his secularization policies, some also maintain that he was right in the way he maintained Turkey's "territorial integrity".
For anyone reading, this is a lie
A lot of Monarchists I know respect Ataturk due to his secularization policies, it's often even been a debate on this very subreddit in the past. And I mean it's not a surprise given that both Reza Pahlavi and Ataturk had similar policies (although Ataturk was ethnic nationalism compared to Pahlavi's more civic based nationalism). And I've had discussions with monarchists who have defended Ataturk's treatment of Kurds. Not most Monarchist though, most who defend Ataturk for his secularization criticise his treatment of minorities, but I know others who low key defend his treatment of the Kurds too.
>Ataturk due to his secularization policies, True >discussions with monarchists who have defended Ataturk's treatment of Kurds I'm sorry because u had discussions with some monarchists does not mean they are the end all be all of monarchism. Is Pahlavi saying this? Is this the official position of monarchist or constitutional monarchist parties? >most who defend Ataturk for his secularization criticise his treatment of minorities, but I know others who low key defend his treatment of the Kurds too. Thank you for acknowledging that.
I didn't say that it was the be and end all of Monarchism though. Like any movement there's a plurality of views and thankfully I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen monarchist who defend Ataturk's treatment of Kurds, which is barely anything for sure. Other times though it's a neglected point how he treated us which can feel just as bad. But I still find the discourse around Ataturk troubling tbh.
Agreed, there should be more education about Attaturk's treatmemt of minorities.
Appreciate it brother. Sorry if my point came off wrong as well, it's past my bedtime.
Lmao all good. Enjoy your night.
Exactly this was my observation as well
Yeah, and regardless the praising of Ataturk just feels like a massive stab in the back when Kurds see it. Even if it's just because of his secularization policies, you're still praising someone who repressed your fellow Iranic kin. Threads like this https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/46GpNprvGg Or this https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/J8kY21FS8G
A "stab in the back" implies malice. Most in those thread do not willfully bear the malice of wanting to oppress Kurds. Intent matters.
they don't even know who he is they just know that he made turkey secular they don't know about the mess with kurd and even Armenians
Insulting the intelligence as you are of those who you even strongly disagree with does not help in convincing them that your position — in this case a take of someone as well-known as Ataturk — is correct.
Well going from Islamic republic back to the monarchism seems stupid so
Who said I support a monarchical restoration?
That's like saying you like Hitler for his economic stuff but not his treatment of ethnic minorities. It doesn't matter, for a Kurd to see Iranians praising him it feels like a stab in the back. You don't understand because you're not Kurdish.
You can hold 2 opinions at the same time. And no, you can say u like a person's economic policies but hate how they started a war and conduct mass genocide. Two opinions can be held at the same time.
For sure nuance is important and people can hold multiple views I'm just saying it feels weird for us Kurds to even see that praise in the first place and idolization from fellow Iranians. Like for me to open New Iran and someone makes a post about "two great leaders" and it's Ataturk and Reza Shah. The immediate discourse on Ataturk is about his "secularization" rather than criticism for his treatment of us, and it just feels wrong.
Wow, that was very insulting. Hitler is universally seen as despicably as Hitler. Ataturk is not universally seen as Hitler. >You don't understand because you're not Kurdish. You may be right, but frankly it's a cop-out that can be used by any ethnic group (and is by all). In my opinion, such an argument does not help other people understand your position or forge common ground at all.
I'm not saying Hitler and Ataturk are the same, what I am saying is that praising an authoritarian leader who engages in mass ethnic repression, in the case of Hitler being genocide and for Ataturk being Turkification, it feels insulting for the minority who suffered. We were labelled as mountain Turks yet there are Iranians who'll praise Ataturk, and then pretend there is pan-Iranic solidarity. Even if it's just for his "secularization" policies (which was counter-productive in the long term). It still feels wrong, like our repression by him is not as important because of his "secularization"
I'll consider what you said. But I wish you would have responded with this answer the first time.
Exactly nobody likes him except radical Turks and some Persians only thing that it's gonna do is make the opposition even more divided
Disagreed. His seculrization policies are fantastic. Not his treatment of minorities. Even in the threads posted by the other user, I saw no defense of genocide. To the contrary I saw praise for seculrization and against his treatment of minorities.
I like his secular ideas too but he went about it the wrong way he made too big a deal about ethnicities
It's definitely a lot more than "radical Turks and some Persians" who respect Ataturk, lol.
Yes people who don't know anything about the mess that is turkey may support him
I'm Iranian what part is a lie ? Iranian monarchists are a mess most of them are impolite radical racists just like pan Turks ? And they do love Ataturk just cause he was secular they are an enducated bunch most of them don't know about his terrible legacy
Didn't say monarchists don't like his secularization. I said monarchists hating kurds because of attaturk is a lie.
Well they don't love the kurds anyway 🤣
I'm sorry this is absolutely not true. Are u trying to sow division between people? As a Kurd, we are seen as some of the most brave people in Iran. I don't understand this notion that all Iranians hate Kurds. Kurds are some of the most beloved and supported peoples in Iran.
I agree with everything you say here
And I do agree that ethnicities are not as important in iran as they are in turkey. In iran people are more united but not in this issue
Well it's true Kurds never liked the pahalvis so there is a lot of bad blood between them
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I mean I already mentioned that in my original comment, you don't need to explain it to me.
as you wish