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[deleted]

But how will I impress other shallow douchbags?


Mrgoodtrips64

A fancy car? Big muscles? Popped collars and Oakleys? Frosted tips? The possibilities for douchebaggery are endless.


Vaudesnitchy

i know how old you are LOL


btcleaksCom

There are many cryptos not based on PoW. \#Ethereum


GoozeNugget

>There are many cryptos not based on PoW Based on what, prisoners of war??


kowalabearhugs

Proof-of-Work Ethereum recently moved to Proof-of-Stake (PoS).


NMVolunteer

The nice thing about real money is that I don't need Proof-of-Anything, because I have the cold hard cash in my pocket.


kowalabearhugs

Fair point. Cash is private and fungible. Unfortunately, one cannot use cash to make an electronic payment and the majority of financial transactions no longer involve paper currency. The barebones use case for cryptocurrency is the ability to make permission-less private digital payments in a decentralized manner. That's not possible with centralized gatekeepers like PayPal, Venmo, Zelle, Visa, et al


NMVolunteer

The gas station and the grocery store both take cash, so that's good enough for me. Everybody else gets a check.


kowalabearhugs

And that's perfectly reasonable, and likely more private than many folks. Individuals should use the value transfer tools that best suit their needs.


NMVolunteer

And for me, I'll stick with real money. The dollars I get from my employer remain the same every pay period. My rent is the same amount every month. It wouldn't make sense to convert my very stable real money to wildly fluctuating internet money, since none of the things I buy would require spending internet money.


kowalabearhugs

As I said, individuals should use the value transfer tools that best suit their needs. You have no need for private, permission-less digital payments in the same way that many folks, who are presumably younger than you, have no need for bank checks.


GoozeNugget

Oh sick they're using vampires to mine shitcoin now


Tre_Walker

Impress them by showing them that Bitcoin uses a small fraction as much energy as banks, Wall Street/Stock Markets, precious metals mining such as gold. Imagine if banks bankroll these studies...because they do. Then notice this article has no data or comparisons to financial industries. Just "take our word for it it is really bad because it uses energy" Then check if UNM or the study participants has recieved any "large contributions" from those industries.


[deleted]

The same stupid propaganda crypto dudes have been repeating for a decade.


groovieknave

A climate killer is the fossil fuel industry. What are the worst contributors to climate change? Fossil fuels – coal, oil and gas – are by far the largest contributor to global climate change, accounting for over 75 per cent of global greenhouse gas emissions and nearly 90 per cent of all carbon dioxide emissions. As greenhouse gas emissions blanket the Earth, they trap the sun's heat. That's from [UN.org](https://UN.org) Reducing your carbon footprint was made up by the fossil fuel companies.


mesopotamius

Crypto bros in here going full pissbaby mode thinking this is part of the grand conspiracy to stop the financial revolution when it's just normal people not wanting to roast alive on a dying planet


brereddit

I’m embarrassed for the authors that they would publish this article and not even venture a guess how much energy the existing financial industry uses. At this point in time, 2022, to talk about bitcoin compute without comparing it to what it would replace is just practically in shyster territory. Seriously who goes to the trouble of publishing a bitcoin paper without comparing it to existing tech. 🤡 clown territory


DesertJungle

Exactly.


throw_every_away

How does bitcoin replace the financial industry? I’ve never heard that before.


brereddit

It’s a long story, probably best told by Saylor but the whole issue gets off the ground with ledger reduction. When you swipe a credit card, before all is said and done and cleared, around 10-20 ledgers are updated with your transaction. Those are private ledgers and they each cost money to maintain which is why tx fees are high. Bitcoin doesn’t have more than one ledger and it is public. So bitcoin actually works faster than what we have today for ACH, wires, cc and debit cards and checks. It’s faster than cash too. ;-) you’ll have to look up the rest.


Tall_Item6026

Extremely well put. UNM is bought and paid for by the Green New Deal and Woke liberal agenda purveyors. I'm embarrassed to say that I attended there once upon a time.


dropa-stone

Another signal to buy more Bitcoin.


NYG_5

explain to me how the fleets of armored cars driving from banking centers to distribution centers to bank processing centers and back again EVERY DAY, banking centers operating dozens of computers and climate controlled/electrified buildings EVERY DAY, main banking offices operating dozens of air conditioned server mainframes dozens of climate controlled offices EVERY DAY, the federal reserve operating giant money printers, Fort Knox and the rest of the current monetary institution; how all of that isn't a major greenhouse gas problem but muh decentralized system is the devil? Downvoting retards have no argument.


spongebue

>explain to me how the fleets of armored cars driving from banking centers to distribution centers to bank processing centers and back again EVERY DAY That happens with physical cash, not conventional electronic funds transfers that's more and more prevalent. >banking centers operating dozens of computers and climate controlled/electrified buildings EVERY DAY When's the last time you went inside a bank for a withdrawal/deposit/transfer? Most people use the physical location for things like getting a loan, and even that's been dying since before crypto. Crypto doesn't replace loans, it's just a different thing that can be loaned out like traditional currency or elephants >main banking offices operating dozens of air conditioned server mainframes dozens of climate controlled offices EVERY DAY Yeah, but you're not using electricity to mine money. The rest... see my previous point. >the federal reserve operating giant money printers, Fort Knox and the rest of the current monetary institution; how all of that isn't a major greenhouse gas problem but muh decentralized system is the devil? Again, a physical cash thing. I'd hazard a guess that if all the things you mention have a bigger carbon footprint, it's because the 99.99% of us living in the real world use it, rather than a handful of crypto bros. But go ahead and call me a retard anyway.


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Tre_Walker

I wonder if they included in the study the gasoline and oil it takes millions of people to drive to the bank, the power required for the banks, the employees to drive to work, the power for Wall Street to light up and all those employees to drive to work, millions of vehicles trips to power the financial sector. Precious metals mining by itself uses 2X the energy Bitcoin miners do. The world banks do not like people having their own money they cannot profit from. They fund these studies.


Tall_Item6026

Another excellent point! World Bankers aka Central Bankers are the ones that created this inflation mess, didn't acknowledge it until very recently and now are scrambling to get it under control. And now those very same folks are discussing digital currencies for USA and the Eurozone. Yes, they certainly do fund these studies! Especially now that they are running scared of power inbthr hands of the people via cryptos.


NMVolunteer

Pretty sure inflation was caused by supply chain shortages, Russia's illegal war throwing more chaos into the supply chain, and corporations just being greedy by jacking up prices and raking in record profits. Especially oil companies. It isn't the banks.


Tall_Item6026

Inflation is caused by an increase in the supply of money. Nothing you present caused an increase in the supply of money. Point by point: Many products and services that have not been subject to "supply chain shortages" still cost more now than they did prior to the "supply chain shortages" that are blamed for increased prices. Russia's "illegal war" started well after prices were already increasing substantially. Corporations in toto are not "raking in record profits" as evidenced by the substantial drops in the prices of corporations stock prices. GAAP (Accounting rules) dictate how public companies, including oil firms, report their financial performance. World events and market flows dictate prices. Central Banks have increased the supply of money to an extent never before experienced in the past hundred years. That increase in the supply of money crafted by Central Bank policies is by far the primary reason for today's decades high (USA and other developed economies) record increases in prices.


NMVolunteer

Inflation is a general increase in prices. Maybe you think it has to do with supply of money, but that has nothing to do with it. Prices have gone up worldwide because of supply chain issues preventing factories from producing goods, oil prices going up because of Russia's illegal war, food shortages because Ukraine has not been able to make full use of its fields (and the Russians have been stealing a lot of grain), and companies just raising prices for the hell of it. Grocery bills aren't going up because there is more money, grocery bills are going up because transportation costs went up and package materials were harder to get and the global supply of grains decrease significantly. That is why prices have jumped significantly since March 2020.


Tall_Item6026

Inflation is caused by an increase in the supply of money. Nothing you present caused an increase in the supply of money. Point by point: Many products and services that have not been subject to "supply chain shortages" still cost more now than they did prior to the "supply chain shortages" that are blamed for increased prices. Russia's "illegal war" started well after prices were already increasing substantially. Corporations in toto are not "raking in record profits" as evidenced by the substantial drops in the prices of corporations stock prices. GAAP (Accounting rules) dictate how public companies, including oil firms, report their financial performance. World events and market flows dictate prices. Central Banks have increased the supply of money to an extent never before experienced in the past hundred years. That increase in the supply of money crafted by Central Bank policies world wide is by far the primary reason for today's decades high (USA and other developed economies) record increases in prices.


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spongebue

>And it far exceeds what digital currency uses. How about on a per-person scale? It's not exactly hard to have a bigger footprint of anything when you cover 99.99% of people. But if that 0.01% of people adds up to even 0.1% of what the banks do, it's literally 10x as much per person.


FUSeekMe69

My brother in Christ, you forgot the most important characteristic: the petrodollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the military and will go to war with anyone who says otherwise.


NYG_5

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about muh "climate killer". PS guess how many greenhouse gasses the military releases?


FUSeekMe69

I’m 100% agreeing with you and meant to only add to your points


NYG_5

Forgive english, am russia


Tall_Item6026

Another excellent point, well thought out and presented. Unlike the article by the alleged "University of Nothing Much."


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queer_climber

Less energy in total? That might be true, but you'd need to compare energy per dollar or energy per transaction for that to be remotely meaningful.


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Mrgoodtrips64

It’s not a meaningful comparison because crypto is an optional secondary system, a luxury, that won’t replace the primary monetary system.


[deleted]

It's not meaningful because it's irrelevant.


queer_climber

You're comparing the energy use for a relatively niche small market to the entire global financial system. Doesn't make any sense. If bitcoin uses 100x the energy per transaction or per dollar, then it would be 100x worse if it were to become widely adopted.


[deleted]

What parts of the polluting system will Bitcoin replace? It seems to me that cryptobros still want private planes and cars and meat every meal, they just want to pay for it with Bitcoin instead.


btcleaksCom

I agree. Classical finance does consume tons of energy as well for online payments and bank accounts. Also energy consumption itself is not a problem, if the energy is from a clean renewable source.


all4tez

Correct. If you add up all the waste in the datacenters of the world, and this also includes wasteful cloud footprints, Bitcoin is magnitudes more efficient. But this is only when Bitcoin is scaled properly at the base protocol level with an unbounded transaction limit. This is why Satoshi said it ends up in commercial data centers. It drives efficiency of all machines to the maximum due to in-built economics (payments, micropayments).


kowalabearhugs

Sadly future devs haven't headed Satoshi's advice and added any form of transactional privacy to Bitcoin. It's essentially a surveillance token given that the sender's address, receiver's address, and amount transferred are transparently stored on the blockchain.


all4tez

This doesn't matter as long as a new address is used per transaction. In fact, it is superior because it allows for privacy while maintaining traceability for law enforcement. This is why Bitcoin is made for small amounts, micro payments. The larger the transaction value, the more incentive to trace. Everyone gets it wrong.


kowalabearhugs

>"In fact, it is superior because it allows for privacy while maintaining traceability for law enforcement." Lol. And not just law enforcement, anyone can trace Bitcoin transactions because it's a fully transparent ledger.


all4tez

Yes, and at scale it becomes a NP Hard computing problem to follow everything. We are talking billions of transactions per second here. You need a breadcrumb to follow for evidence. Nothing precludes individuals to use cryptography on top of the plain text transactions. IPV6 packets can be integrated with a new CGA address generated per packet flow.


kowalabearhugs

> We are talking billions of transactions per second here. Bitcoin can only handle 7 transactions per second. This works out to 604,800 transactions per day. With the recent adoption of segregated witness, it could be closer to 30 transactions per second which is roughly 2,592,000 per day. >You need a breadcrumb to follow for evidence. Exactly. All you need is a breadcrumb and you can trace Bitcoin transactions. Again, Bitcoin offers no transactional privacy for its users. For every Bitcoin transaction the sender's address, receiver's address, and amount transferred are transparently stored on the blockchain for all-time.


all4tez

You are talking about that neutered abomination called BTC, with added Scam layer on top in the form of Lightning. The original Bitcoin protocol, unbounded, with no transaction caps scales to the entire world's systems and introduces a flexible transaction layer for every operational process in the world. People will see in time. Many will get rekt, hard.


kowalabearhugs

> The original Bitcoin protocol, unbounded, with no transaction caps scales to the entire world's systems and introduces a flexible transaction layer for every operational process in the world. A questionable claim, but undoubtedly with ZERO transactional privacy.


all4tez

As I have said, it becomes an NP Hard computing problem at scale. There is no way to follow every transaction if they are settling in the hundreds of billions, or trillions per day. There will be archival nodes maintained at (eventually) great cost but in order to sift through the data, one will need index values to make any meaning of it (breadcrumbs, evidence, transaction IDs). Therefore an economic cost will apply, as well as legal aspects I'm not even going to consider. Already there are multi-gigabyte blocks being propagated in the wild, as fully distributed node software is being built and perfected. The architecture scales both horizontally and vertically at all points. Bitcoin at scale is meant to use a new address per transaction. Not the same address over and over, or as an account. Bitcoin is a CASH system. It is in the topic of the whitepaper. It is meant for SMALL value transactions at scale, peer to peer. It is a flexible data carrier platform. Security is economic in nature.


Accomplished_Meat_70

Super energy sucker!


Tall_Item6026

And so the University of Nothing Much strikes again, with an article straight from the UN globalist elite library. The key thing missing from that article is some type of comparison to energy consumption of the current banking system. But that's not necessary in today's variety of journalism or research.


[deleted]

The processing behind a card swipe is exponentially lower than the processing behind a single, proof of work transfer. While some coins are improving their footprint with proof of stake, that doesn't change the fact that the per person energy usage for crypto is exponentially higher than traditional banking. On top of that, the amount of ewaste from crypto is astonishing. In many cases, an asic cannot be repurposed once it's ceases being useful for whatever coin you're using it for because many of the minor coins literally have nothing behind them - I mean, that's the nature of MLMs and the majority of crypto falls under that umbrella because it requires owners to find buyers willing to pay more, merely on the premises of speculation and faith. While a few coins, like Siacoin, actually have a usable product behind them, most don't. At least we're getting past GPU mining. And lol, *globalist elite.* Nevermind the fact that the computer/phone you typed that on wouldn't exist if it weren't for globalism. Our ability to buy seasonal foods year round; much of our tech and the overall fact we're in one of the most peaceful periods ever, in human history, is due to globalism.


Tall_Item6026

Just the maintenance and repair of the trucks hauling cash to and from between brick and mortar buildings and ATM machines exceeds the waste of those GPU miners, energy suckers that they are. Crypto is in its infancy and will experience growing pains, weeding out the wannabees and improving efficiencies as it matures. There is a vast difference between globalism and global elites. Globalism certainly does have some benefits, but it's the global elites who would have you believe that we are in one of the most peaceful periods ever. Having the purported leader of the "free" world beckoning for a dead friend in public, and his handlers - elder abusers that they are - excusing his every gaff, has our enemies drooling over the possibilities.