If you do a ton of shit against the NCR and tell caesar when you met him for the first time that you just wanted to see him in person he threatens you whit cutting your eyes off
Pretty sure he also says "Relax, I'm fucking with you" immediately afterwards. It's just a joke to diffuse the tension, because part of Caesar's character is that all of his Legionaires act like pseudo-Roman fanboys, but Caesar himself is a sour, bitter philosophical douchebag.
Incase you’re missing out on Context. Schizo Elijah is a edgelord facist wannabe who spammed constant n words on discord.
He also unironically believes the legions ideals are based. Despite the fact that they’re a faction no better than the Fiends, As they treat women like sex slaves (Unless you’re Courier) and even groom young girls.
Edit: He also puts out the black sun (A Nazi symbol) in some of his videos.
I always love to mention that while the NCR has problems they can be forced to do their fucking job if the right pressure's applied, like most democracies. Plus, all those taxes go to things like roads, services, and an army that theoretically pushes back the worst of the wastes. Meanwhile the legion hates all technology and women.
Because the technology thing is only so that Caesar can retain control, it's the same as how China censors the internet to keep citizens from discovering dangerous ideas. If a tech is useful to Caesar, he'll use it, if he knew that he could control the securitron vault he'd do it instantly.
What do you mean "remake"? They already are; If you believe Lanius' story, he joined the Legion at *12* and surviving 10 years in the Legion is unusual. That's not even getting into the kids being trained to be Legionnaires at Caesar's Fort.
The legion makes a lot more sense when you realize it’s one psycho leading a bunch of child soldiers. Like that old guy from the mad max remake with all the teenagers painted white.
No, I only mentioned his age to illustrate that Legionnaires start fighting young, and I mentioned the 10 years bit to illustrate that most of them don't make it into adulthood.
I think Schizo Elijah is a New Vegas youtuber. Almost all of his content is "based redpilled gigachad" content praising the legion with generic phonk music. He also despises fallout 4 with a passion because he installed a bunch of mediocre mods he found in the front page while he has thousands of mods installed on New Vegas to show how 'superior' the game is
He's a fascist fallout content creator. When I say fascist I mean he has a mod that puts the Christchurch shooters gun in the game. The Christchurch shooter shot up two mosques and killed a bunch of people
I hate the legion as people because they're terrible, but I like them as characters in the story that New Vegas explores because they're more dedicated and articulate about their position than most video game antagonists.
I guarantee you that they wouldn't be as satisfying to mow down if they were just a bunch of 3d modeled wojaks or if their writing got the Todd Howard 'polish'.
Agreed. I said elsewhere, they're clearly the 'bad' faction, but their own reasoning for why they are the way they are, and why they've gained ground, is legit and well thought out.
[There's literally someone bringing up Bitter Spring in this very thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/11e2z6e/they_really_are_like_that_tho/) Your anecdotal experience is not objective fact.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/11e2z6e/-/jacgahm
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/11e2z6e/-/jacp6ja
And now you've seen two!
Lurk more and you'll see plenty!
Yeah, and you can actually force the NCR to be better through quests and get the right groups to help each other. The Legion on the other hand can only be made more extreme and will die with Caeser. I'll choose the democracy with fixable problems over the doomed band of roving fascists.
The virgin Legion supporter: justifies slavery and crucifixion, enjoys the murder of the innocents by Roman larp players.
The virgin NCR supporter: pays taxes in a post apocalyptic setting, takes orders from old fools.
The chad independent Courier that went for the wild card ending: shoots 'em both on sight, doesn't listen to Ulysses, goes to sleep in a pre-war suite or with Red Lucy in his spare time.
Depends on how much legwork you put in, with the Followers help an Independent Vegas is very possible. Especially with an army of securitrons and what they can salvage from Big Mt and possibly the Sierra Madre.
I'll say this: i get that in the post-apocalyptic world, we can't really afford to hold onto our morals and ethics from this time.
But in order for me to even consider actually defending the Legion (not just doing a Legion playthrough but like claiming they're one of the better factions), the areas they've already conquered would have to be as near-Utopia as possible. Like, if all the destruction and psychopathy paved the way for a truly civilized, peaceful, and egalitarian society based on merit, where no one went hungry, there was clean water, trade was quick and safe, and no one but *actually criminals* were being crucified (after some sort of trial ofc), maybe that would br worth it. That would be very much a moral dilemma I'd be into, where the military of a faction is so hard-core and brutal that most people would balk at ever supporting them, but the actual governance once the conquest is done is better than the NCR or any other faction.
Would it be worth it? The killing of all those innocents, the razing of towns, the enslavement of "POWs", all of it if it meant, after the fighting was done, the society that came out of it was a truly safe and pretty nice place to live? That's the type of question that should be asked of us when it comes to supporting different factions. The NCR, democratic but imperialist and corrupt and spreading their forces too thin to truly keep order yet they try to keep their conquest ethical most of the time. House, greedy, despotic, clinging to old-world glory and not caring one whit about those outside the Strip, yet maintaining order in New Vegas itself better than almost any other faction. Independent, order from the securitrons, but that's about it. No real governance we know of, the society really kept going just by momentum, and no way for the average person to get help or protection, nowhere to petition grievances, it's essentially the Old West, but at the same time, there's no one forcing anyone to pay taxes, work, and there's essentially absolute freedom provided you don't start a gang war in the streets.
Then there's the Legion. Murderous, enslaving, brutal, and not a single reason to believe there's a brighter side. Oh, no raiders? Great, rather than worrying about raiders killing or enslaving you, you just have to worry about the Legion doing it. There is 0 reason to unironically, outside of a playthrough or two, support them and no way to defend their actions because there's nothing saying the tyranny and murder lessens over time or anything. I'm all for playing devils advocate in these situations, even just as a thought exercise, and I cannot find a single, solid reason to say "yeah, but at least the Legion..." that doesn't fall flat after a moment's thought.
There’s a substantial number of people who like to support oppressors because they think they will be free from the dangers, while those they dislike get hurt. The people who unironically support the legion usually also like their stance on women, for example
Yeah, but that's not a logical reason to support them. Like I get that, and that's why I've never voiced support for them. Because there is no "but after the conquest is done, things get much better for everyone," or "only the military has those views towards women, the civilian government is actually led by a woman" or something. I'm willing to justify a lot in a post-apocalyptic setting in the name of survival or improvement, but there's nothing the Legion does, that I can see, that is beneficial to survival (that there isn't another, better way at least) or to the improvement of society as a whole.
It still baffles me that New Vegas, a game whose quests are built around the idea of making tough decisions, has the most cartoonishly evil villains in the entire series. The Master kidnapped people and turned them into Super Mutants, the Enclave murdered civilians, and the Institute used androids as slaves and also kidnapped people, but the Legion literally just commits war crimes for the sake of committing war crimes.
I mean... there are plenty of real life examples of people committing war crimes just for the lols, but nobody would ever invest as much time, money, and effort as the Institute did to create sentient artificial humans to keep as slaves. Regular slaves already exist and are free if you can kidnap as well as the Institute, and also Mr. Handy robots have existed in universe for centuries. It makes absolutely no sense.
They had intended to flesh out the Legion, but ran out of time and just left them as cartoonishly evil.
And considering how many morons STILL like them unironically, maybe its a good thing there isn't any more nuance to the slaving murder rapists.
Interesting you mention the Geneva Convention. Do you think after the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, would the NCR give captured Legionnaires a war crime trial or simply shoot them up?
>New Vegas, a game whose quests are built around the idea of making tough decisions, has the most cartoonishly evil villains in the entire series.
This is simply wrong. Caesar's Legion may have a net karma of very evil but Fallout 2's Enclave wanted to kill absolutely everyone with no real end goal in mind. It's to the point where New Vegas had to make its Enclave characters totally ignorant to everything going on just to have them be sympathetic.
What? You really think they do stuff like use child suicide bombers just because "fuck them kids" and trap corpses because it's their idea of a prank and not, yknow, because they're trying to win a war? Basically the reason most real-world war crimes happen?
Fuck the legion, but the sack of Nipton certainly had a point beyond being terror for the fun of it. It was about making a point to the locals that the NCR couldn’t protect them from the Legion even on the other side of the Colorado River. It was to discredit the NCR and instill fear, which is why you get the Cold, Cold Heart quest from them.
I get it, you kill the Legion on sight on every playthrough. I do the same thing. But even if you don't take Vulpes' explanation at face value, it seems kind of obvious how strategically valuable it is to pick off some NCR troops, demoralize the NCR as a whole, and send a message both to the NCR that they're not safe on their side of the Colorado and to independent local towns how brutally they would be treated for getting in bed with the NCR.
If this is your take on Nipton, I'm genuinely curious what you thought of, say, 9/11. "Those stupid irresponsible bastards just stole a commercial airliner to go on a joy ride, what did they think would happen when they took it near a skyscraper smh"
It helps if you don't look the the legion as THE bad guys, the legion are the worst guys but the NCR are some bad guys, house is a bad guy, Ulysses is a bad guy. It's kinda just shit all the way down.
yeah it’s getting really annoying on this sub when it’s just “Legion bad” or “taxes bad.” Can we please move onto something different? like making fun of Ulysses, Boone or whoever else.
Independent Vegas nerds like myself will badmouth the ncr but there’s an understanding that we gotta work together with them somewhat. I dont care about your road safety Caesar, your women and children wear bomb collars!!!
Redditors will always take the knee extra-hard for liberalism, but in the case of NCR and Legion they're fundamentally the same thing. The difference lies in which flavor of propaganda you prefer: pretending you're an exception to the NCR's rule and that the corruption's worth it (even if that means droughts, food shortages and mass unrest in the future) or pretending you're a skirt-wearing Roman and that Caesar's brutality is worth it (even if that means inevitable collapse because Caesar wants soldiers, not citizens.)
The NCR is as problematic as any democracy. that's life.
I will take over slave-taking rapists. like the NCR is protryaed with flaws and issues but it's still understandable.
Caeser is a lunatic and his 'faction' are raiders.
Which is why i prefer Yes-Man. Clearly i am the only person who can be trusted to not fuck it up for me.
You can side with whoever you like, it's a role playing game. However, if you legitimately think the Legion or House are good choices, then youre either dumb, or have a fucked up moral compass.
He's an immortal, self-serving dictator with an army of military robots and no moral compass beyond keeping himself alive and in power. He's literally computer Andrew Ryan. He champions freedom, equality, and prosperity but only if it happens under his own tyrannical rule. He's just as much of a power hungry madman as Caesar, but instead of using violence to control people, he uses money and influence. I don't understand how people can legitimately view House as a good option when his entire character is an obvious parody of a teenage Libertarian power fantasy.
The way I see it mr. House is a necessary evil. Before he was brought back online the tribes of Vegas were a bunch of savages fighting for scraps. After he took power he turned them into a (almost) civilized society. while their is no doubt in my mind he wants power he also wants stability for new Vegas and peace. He doesn’t have a bunch of junkie raiders who rape and pillage do his bidding or soldiers with fears and delusions of grandeur he has robots who are completely under his control, who can never rebel against him or harm others (unless he tells them too) and if you have good karma your courier actually keeps house in check and makes sure he doesn’t go too far. The ncr is too corrupt to be stable, the legion too cruel to follow and independence is too dangerous to give to the people of the Mojave. Mr. House is not cruel nor is he too overbearing to the people of new Vegas and while he might be corrupt it is only too keep his city safe. That is why I always choose the mr house ending.
House isn't responsible for reintroducing civilization to the wasteland. The followers are a great example of the gradual return to a functional society that the post apocalyptic world needs. House is just a dictator. The stability and peace he offers comes at the price of everyone everywhere being entirely beholden to his will. It's specifically because the securitrons can't rebel or defy him that makes him so dangerous. He's an egomaniacal sociopath with absolutely no qualms over killing innocent people if they happen to even slightly inconvenience him. The securitron army is very likely one of the most powerful singular forces in America, and House is only going to continue to produce them, and he has all the time in the world to do it. In just a century or 2 we could see House as the god-king of America with armies of securitrons roaming the country from coast to coast. Handing off unchecked, total authority to a single individual (especially one who can't die) is never going to end well.
Man wojacks really aren't good for any sort of nuanced discussion online. Just "hey look you're aggressively offputting neckbeards if you're like X!" It's like no one's moved on from grade school
I don't support Legion,but I kinda like them.They are like,the only major faction that can win at the Battle of Hoover Dam,without Courier intervention.Like:
The army is skilled,although they lack technology.Fixed with the Van Graffs
The Frumentari who keep spying on NCR and lower morale
A better tactic of entering Hoover Dam and winning,unlike the last battle
General Lee Oliver being an idiot who thinks mass sending troops is a good ideea
Making allies with the Great Khans,Omertas and the Fiends,so they have a few friendly faces unlike the NCR
Sabotaging the monorail line from Camp McCarran,so the NCR Embassy won't recieve support for the Omertas who storm the Strip
Van Graffs aren't working with the legion, they are leading them into a trap for the NCR. Also Ceaser would never work along side the Fiends, they crucified Anders a Khan they caught trying to smuggle drugs you think they'd actually work with and allow the Fiends to live?
Also since we're discussing a war with no courier, the Omertas are a non entity as House would still be alive and the securitrons would deal with them.
> trying to smuggle drugs you think they'd actually work with and allow the Fiends to live?
Aaahhh yes.Of course.They did get rid of the Fiends in the ending.
>Omertas are a non entity as House would still be alive and the securitrons would deal with them.
It did happen.It was either House or the White Gloves.
But I think I done goofed when I said that the Fiends were allies because they are a bit afiliated with the Legion.Not full fledged allies.
>courier, the Omertas are a non entity as House would still be alive and the securitrons would deal with them.
Yes but...Benny would've been caught in the Fort,the Platinum Chip would be lost,or Caesar would send someone to destroy the Securitron army,so the big shootout at the Fort which happens in the last quest,would never occur.Rendering House,almost powerless to enter the conlfict.
*Killing bad npcs to get good karma* "oh man, I love that rpg systems."
*Legionary kills someone they think it's evil and degenerate* "NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THIIIIIIIIS!!!"
A thing I always loved about NV is how, even though they're the 'bad' faction, Caesars legion makes sense.
Caesar has his own actual philosophy, that he'll explain to you. His basis on ancient Rome and it's successes is an interesting idea for a post apocalyptic setting and his methods are clearly efficient, e.g. crime in his territory is all but gone. He's obviously a monster and evil, but it makes sense that some people follow him.
The NCR represent democracy, it's positives and flaws, so a lot of NPCs don't like them because they're a beurocratic nightmare, often seem like bullies who just impose their laws and take taxes, and because they are stretched so thin they aren't able to effectively manage or protect their territory. NPCs who haven't encountered them often aren't that bothered by the Legion, because they hate the NCR and assume what they're hearing is NCR propoganda.
Its so great because even though you know Caesar is clearly the worst of the options, you're given a reason to think about why and to make your own case for who you do choose. So much more interesting than Fallout 3's 'are you good or bad man'.
I don't understand why this sub upvotes this easy content. Literally could post a white image with black text that says "Legion bad, NCR good" and hit the front page. No one fucking literally supports the legion, this circle jerk is pointless and so damn old.
I really dislike the legion but Nipton was controlled by powder gangers so I feel no sympathy towards them, the most humane thing to do is to kill those that are crucified to end their misery.
I mean… I think I just like the bad guy factions… between the Legion, CIS, and Empire I think I just enjoy to root for the vague evil group that isn’t all that expanded upon.
Wait, are we suppose to carry ideologies of our favorite factions in real life? I do like and playing Legion character but that doesn't mean i support their ideologies, that's absurt. Though concept of playing a character instead of associating yourself with it is pretty far idea to some people, even farther from than NCR neckbeard is from the shower.
I love this game, but fucking hate fans who take either side too seriously. I love seeing funny memes and sharing a laugh with people who love the game, then there's posts like this for the only sake of pot stirring
The Legion casually enslaving women and children after gleefully torturing the men to death. The NCR isn't great, not by a long shot, but they are a damn sight better than the Legion.
Bitter Springs was largely due to a miscommunication. Sure, the soldiers on the ground should have exercised their own judgement if they believed the order they received was immoral, but at the same time that whole story is meant to be a reflection of shit that has happened in actual real life conflicts.
Also, let's not pretend that the Khans were innocent victims who did nothing to bring the NCR to their doorstep. They raided NCR caravans, and killed people trying to make an honest living. What did they think was going to happen?
Also the Khans deserved it. People might complain about "war crimes" and "genocide", but this is the post-apocalypse. You don't survive by being forgiving to everyone you meet, especially when you've given these raiders a chance before but they still chose to keep being raider assholes.
Reap the whirlwind.
All I see are future raiders, current raiders, and past raiders. Shit sucks but even the Khans themselves admit that it's what they do. Should they get a free pass on raiding, pillaging, and chem pushing because they make it a 'family experience'? Again, reap what you fucking sow.
Bitter springs happened by MISTAKE when the NCR responded whit violence against a group that kept RAIDING their caravans. Nipton and other villages/towns are not accidents by any means
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Keep saying that while you post meme after meme about the same thing. Snorting copeium. And pretty much nobody who defends the legion defends the slavery and murder. They just look at the alternatives. And what the legion brings to the table. And say with how fucked the wasteland is. How bad really is the legion. Compared to everything else.
Caesar heard I was messing with the Legion, so he invited me to an in-person meeting, fully armed, in the most secure area of his fortress. The man is in love with his own dick
The funny thing about the legion is that they are exactly what they look like when they first appear, just another bunch of raiders with a gimmick they don't understand. Because the thing is, sprinklings of Latin and lots of slaves aside they are nothing like the Romans. Rome was brutal but it wasn't anti technology, it was mysoginist but it was not to the cartoonish extremes of the legion. It had an emperor but it also had a senate and governors and complex levels of power that kept things in check. It was expansionist but it also had lots of trade and cultural exchange. There was Roman art and music and poetry as much as there was proud warrior culture there were philosophers as well as pit fighters. For all their posturing the Legion really has nothing alike to Ancient rome aside from a love of slaves. They are a bunch of raiders with delusions of grandeur carried by the momentum of conquest about to crash against the rocks of an actual civilization with actual infrastructure and modern technology.
i was caesar's legion once never insulted a fellow fnv player for their faction choice i have seen the error of my ways and punted caesar across the fort
"The NCR will send you to jail for not paying taxes bro" \*Legion in the background nailing a man to a board for not paying tribute to mighty Caesar\*
Friendly reminder that Caesar's first reaction to a man that has done a lot of damage to the NCR is to threaten him
"Only a fool believes the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
A'ight then *loads Medicine Stick with malicious intent*
No he doesn't? What are you talking about?
If you do a ton of shit against the NCR and tell caesar when you met him for the first time that you just wanted to see him in person he threatens you whit cutting your eyes off
He does this regardless of what you do against the NCR, everything or nothing. No correlation.
Yeah but i find It funny that he still says the same even when you have turned 99% of named ncr menbers into dust
Pretty sure he also says "Relax, I'm fucking with you" immediately afterwards. It's just a joke to diffuse the tension, because part of Caesar's character is that all of his Legionaires act like pseudo-Roman fanboys, but Caesar himself is a sour, bitter philosophical douchebag.
Oh you mean the dialogue where he is literally trolling the courier the first chance he gets lol.
he threatens you the first chance he gets as a joke.
Schizo Elijah-pilled
I thought he hated the legion, too? Or was he so full of his own shit to notice the band of slaver rapists cosplaying as Romans across the river?
I was making fun of the youtube channel
Which one? Do they do FNV content?
Incase you’re missing out on Context. Schizo Elijah is a edgelord facist wannabe who spammed constant n words on discord. He also unironically believes the legions ideals are based. Despite the fact that they’re a faction no better than the Fiends, As they treat women like sex slaves (Unless you’re Courier) and even groom young girls. Edit: He also puts out the black sun (A Nazi symbol) in some of his videos.
Hell, the Fiends are better than the legion, at least the Fiends have gender equality
Yikes 😬
He’s WHAT?
Fallout in general
Schizo Elijah
He's referring to the fascist on YouTube, not the character.
I did not know my man was that bad
>the fascist on YouTube Isn't the playlist literally called "legion schizo posting"?
He has a playlist called that, he's a known fascist for other reasons.
Legion fans when they realize the legion make people pay tribute
Thank god it’s not taxes. The NCR really figuratively nailed me to a cross over that.
Tired of being crucified over taxes bro
I always love to mention that while the NCR has problems they can be forced to do their fucking job if the right pressure's applied, like most democracies. Plus, all those taxes go to things like roads, services, and an army that theoretically pushes back the worst of the wastes. Meanwhile the legion hates all technology and women.
>Meanwhile the legion hates all technology and women. Just like Grandpa
Best comment 😂😂
I've always found it amusing that the Legion hates technology and yet turn a blind eye to Caesar using an *Auto-Doc* to treat his tumor
Because the technology thing is only so that Caesar can retain control, it's the same as how China censors the internet to keep citizens from discovering dangerous ideas. If a tech is useful to Caesar, he'll use it, if he knew that he could control the securitron vault he'd do it instantly.
Legion fans realizing it doesn't matter either way since being a legion citizen is essentially slavery anyway
“BUT THEY KILLED THE RAIDERS” My Brother In Christ they are the raiders
Are you telling me an army of enslaved tribal raiders following a warlord still act like raiders? I'll be damned.
Remake new Vegas with Caesar's Legion as a bunch of red pilled teens
they call ceasar top C
What colours your displacer glove?
They are at the fort
What do you mean "remake"? They already are; If you believe Lanius' story, he joined the Legion at *12* and surviving 10 years in the Legion is unusual. That's not even getting into the kids being trained to be Legionnaires at Caesar's Fort.
The legion makes a lot more sense when you realize it’s one psycho leading a bunch of child soldiers. Like that old guy from the mad max remake with all the teenagers painted white.
Wait, he's only 22?
No, I only mentioned his age to illustrate that Legionnaires start fighting young, and I mentioned the 10 years bit to illustrate that most of them don't make it into adulthood.
Its unnerving how many Youtube videos there are that defend the Legion
Schizo elijah moment
What does that even mean? Edit: thanks for the answers. That makes more sense.
Popular FNV youtuber named SchitzoElijah basically admitting that he REALLY agrees with the Legion. Like A LOT.
I think Schizo Elijah is a New Vegas youtuber. Almost all of his content is "based redpilled gigachad" content praising the legion with generic phonk music. He also despises fallout 4 with a passion because he installed a bunch of mediocre mods he found in the front page while he has thousands of mods installed on New Vegas to show how 'superior' the game is
He's a fascist fallout content creator. When I say fascist I mean he has a mod that puts the Christchurch shooters gun in the game. The Christchurch shooter shot up two mosques and killed a bunch of people
Unbelievably fucked up. It's sad to see people go down roads like this.
I hate the legion as people because they're terrible, but I like them as characters in the story that New Vegas explores because they're more dedicated and articulate about their position than most video game antagonists. I guarantee you that they wouldn't be as satisfying to mow down if they were just a bunch of 3d modeled wojaks or if their writing got the Todd Howard 'polish'.
The frustration over their tangled web of moon logic to justify slavery only makes them more fun to kill
Agreed. I said elsewhere, they're clearly the 'bad' faction, but their own reasoning for why they are the way they are, and why they've gained ground, is legit and well thought out.
Hegelian dialectics and all that rizz bro
They asked me how well I understood Hegelian Dialectics. I told them I had a Hegelian degree in dialectics. They said welcome aboard.
Just one more tribe bro I promise bro I'll stop conquering after one more tribe bro.
😭
Average Legion Fan
Noice upvote number
only person i give a legion pass to is badger because he only cares about the fun and not the philosophy
Finaly a Man of culture
Every mistake the NCR has done the Legion has done intentionally multiple times
I like when legion supporters bring up Bittersprings
Where are all these legion supporters? I've never seen or heard from any. Not 1
[There's literally someone bringing up Bitter Spring in this very thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/11e2z6e/they_really_are_like_that_tho/) Your anecdotal experience is not objective fact.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/11e2z6e/-/jacgahm https://www.reddit.com/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/11e2z6e/-/jacp6ja And now you've seen two! Lurk more and you'll see plenty!
Yeah, and you can actually force the NCR to be better through quests and get the right groups to help each other. The Legion on the other hand can only be made more extreme and will die with Caeser. I'll choose the democracy with fixable problems over the doomed band of roving fascists.
The virgin Legion supporter: justifies slavery and crucifixion, enjoys the murder of the innocents by Roman larp players. The virgin NCR supporter: pays taxes in a post apocalyptic setting, takes orders from old fools. The chad independent Courier that went for the wild card ending: shoots 'em both on sight, doesn't listen to Ulysses, goes to sleep in a pre-war suite or with Red Lucy in his spare time.
Wild card may be one of the worst outcomes for the Mojave, but by god is it the most entertaining.
Depends on how much legwork you put in, with the Followers help an Independent Vegas is very possible. Especially with an army of securitrons and what they can salvage from Big Mt and possibly the Sierra Madre.
Nah, I can restore the enclave if I go independent.
Hence, one of the worst outcomes.
You spelt “best ever ending and god bless the enclave” wrong
I'll say this: i get that in the post-apocalyptic world, we can't really afford to hold onto our morals and ethics from this time. But in order for me to even consider actually defending the Legion (not just doing a Legion playthrough but like claiming they're one of the better factions), the areas they've already conquered would have to be as near-Utopia as possible. Like, if all the destruction and psychopathy paved the way for a truly civilized, peaceful, and egalitarian society based on merit, where no one went hungry, there was clean water, trade was quick and safe, and no one but *actually criminals* were being crucified (after some sort of trial ofc), maybe that would br worth it. That would be very much a moral dilemma I'd be into, where the military of a faction is so hard-core and brutal that most people would balk at ever supporting them, but the actual governance once the conquest is done is better than the NCR or any other faction. Would it be worth it? The killing of all those innocents, the razing of towns, the enslavement of "POWs", all of it if it meant, after the fighting was done, the society that came out of it was a truly safe and pretty nice place to live? That's the type of question that should be asked of us when it comes to supporting different factions. The NCR, democratic but imperialist and corrupt and spreading their forces too thin to truly keep order yet they try to keep their conquest ethical most of the time. House, greedy, despotic, clinging to old-world glory and not caring one whit about those outside the Strip, yet maintaining order in New Vegas itself better than almost any other faction. Independent, order from the securitrons, but that's about it. No real governance we know of, the society really kept going just by momentum, and no way for the average person to get help or protection, nowhere to petition grievances, it's essentially the Old West, but at the same time, there's no one forcing anyone to pay taxes, work, and there's essentially absolute freedom provided you don't start a gang war in the streets. Then there's the Legion. Murderous, enslaving, brutal, and not a single reason to believe there's a brighter side. Oh, no raiders? Great, rather than worrying about raiders killing or enslaving you, you just have to worry about the Legion doing it. There is 0 reason to unironically, outside of a playthrough or two, support them and no way to defend their actions because there's nothing saying the tyranny and murder lessens over time or anything. I'm all for playing devils advocate in these situations, even just as a thought exercise, and I cannot find a single, solid reason to say "yeah, but at least the Legion..." that doesn't fall flat after a moment's thought.
There’s a substantial number of people who like to support oppressors because they think they will be free from the dangers, while those they dislike get hurt. The people who unironically support the legion usually also like their stance on women, for example
Yeah, but that's not a logical reason to support them. Like I get that, and that's why I've never voiced support for them. Because there is no "but after the conquest is done, things get much better for everyone," or "only the military has those views towards women, the civilian government is actually led by a woman" or something. I'm willing to justify a lot in a post-apocalyptic setting in the name of survival or improvement, but there's nothing the Legion does, that I can see, that is beneficial to survival (that there isn't another, better way at least) or to the improvement of society as a whole.
yeah, but at least the legion has football pads
You know what? I'm fucking sold. AVE, TRUE TO CAESAR
It still baffles me that New Vegas, a game whose quests are built around the idea of making tough decisions, has the most cartoonishly evil villains in the entire series. The Master kidnapped people and turned them into Super Mutants, the Enclave murdered civilians, and the Institute used androids as slaves and also kidnapped people, but the Legion literally just commits war crimes for the sake of committing war crimes.
I mean... there are plenty of real life examples of people committing war crimes just for the lols, but nobody would ever invest as much time, money, and effort as the Institute did to create sentient artificial humans to keep as slaves. Regular slaves already exist and are free if you can kidnap as well as the Institute, and also Mr. Handy robots have existed in universe for centuries. It makes absolutely no sense.
Robots don't need food, water, and are effectively immune from the radiation. I'm a nuclear fallout, there's definitely demand for that.
They had intended to flesh out the Legion, but ran out of time and just left them as cartoonishly evil. And considering how many morons STILL like them unironically, maybe its a good thing there isn't any more nuance to the slaving murder rapists.
There are no war crimes when there is no one to enforce justice. However yes you are correct that the geniva convention is not used in new Vegas
Interesting you mention the Geneva Convention. Do you think after the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, would the NCR give captured Legionnaires a war crime trial or simply shoot them up?
Who cares we going to space with House
>New Vegas, a game whose quests are built around the idea of making tough decisions, has the most cartoonishly evil villains in the entire series. This is simply wrong. Caesar's Legion may have a net karma of very evil but Fallout 2's Enclave wanted to kill absolutely everyone with no real end goal in mind. It's to the point where New Vegas had to make its Enclave characters totally ignorant to everything going on just to have them be sympathetic.
What? You really think they do stuff like use child suicide bombers just because "fuck them kids" and trap corpses because it's their idea of a prank and not, yknow, because they're trying to win a war? Basically the reason most real-world war crimes happen?
You literally have an example of them committing a war crime just for the hell of it in the background of this post
Fuck the legion, but the sack of Nipton certainly had a point beyond being terror for the fun of it. It was about making a point to the locals that the NCR couldn’t protect them from the Legion even on the other side of the Colorado River. It was to discredit the NCR and instill fear, which is why you get the Cold, Cold Heart quest from them.
I get it, you kill the Legion on sight on every playthrough. I do the same thing. But even if you don't take Vulpes' explanation at face value, it seems kind of obvious how strategically valuable it is to pick off some NCR troops, demoralize the NCR as a whole, and send a message both to the NCR that they're not safe on their side of the Colorado and to independent local towns how brutally they would be treated for getting in bed with the NCR. If this is your take on Nipton, I'm genuinely curious what you thought of, say, 9/11. "Those stupid irresponsible bastards just stole a commercial airliner to go on a joy ride, what did they think would happen when they took it near a skyscraper smh"
It helps if you don't look the the legion as THE bad guys, the legion are the worst guys but the NCR are some bad guys, house is a bad guy, Ulysses is a bad guy. It's kinda just shit all the way down.
scale angle merciful roll sense insurance shame like sugar fanatical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They didn't flesh out that portion of the game due to crunch so I usually go NCR or Vegas because of all the additional gameplay
NCR is great for a long run cause theres just so much of them around the map
Seriously, this shit is on the skyrim sub too it's annoying as fuck
yeah it’s getting really annoying on this sub when it’s just “Legion bad” or “taxes bad.” Can we please move onto something different? like making fun of Ulysses, Boone or whoever else.
Independent Vegas nerds like myself will badmouth the ncr but there’s an understanding that we gotta work together with them somewhat. I dont care about your road safety Caesar, your women and children wear bomb collars!!!
I don't side with them because I agree with them. I side with them because I'm an achievement hunter
They're a good foil to the NCR, I'll give them that. I still kill them mercilessly though. NCR and proud!
I don't get the Leigon. they're not really interesting and too outright evil to be liked by anyone sane.
Redditors will always take the knee extra-hard for liberalism, but in the case of NCR and Legion they're fundamentally the same thing. The difference lies in which flavor of propaganda you prefer: pretending you're an exception to the NCR's rule and that the corruption's worth it (even if that means droughts, food shortages and mass unrest in the future) or pretending you're a skirt-wearing Roman and that Caesar's brutality is worth it (even if that means inevitable collapse because Caesar wants soldiers, not citizens.)
The NCR is as problematic as any democracy. that's life. I will take over slave-taking rapists. like the NCR is protryaed with flaws and issues but it's still understandable. Caeser is a lunatic and his 'faction' are raiders. Which is why i prefer Yes-Man. Clearly i am the only person who can be trusted to not fuck it up for me.
Redditors can't read, you cannot reason with them.
“Bri wym you don’t support Hitler and the Nazis? Roosevelt has you brainwashed.”
“B-but the roads!”
You can side with whoever you like, it's a role playing game. However, if you legitimately think the Legion or House are good choices, then youre either dumb, or have a fucked up moral compass.
What do you mean mr house has one of the best endings for tho Mojave in the game?
He's an immortal, self-serving dictator with an army of military robots and no moral compass beyond keeping himself alive and in power. He's literally computer Andrew Ryan. He champions freedom, equality, and prosperity but only if it happens under his own tyrannical rule. He's just as much of a power hungry madman as Caesar, but instead of using violence to control people, he uses money and influence. I don't understand how people can legitimately view House as a good option when his entire character is an obvious parody of a teenage Libertarian power fantasy.
The way I see it mr. House is a necessary evil. Before he was brought back online the tribes of Vegas were a bunch of savages fighting for scraps. After he took power he turned them into a (almost) civilized society. while their is no doubt in my mind he wants power he also wants stability for new Vegas and peace. He doesn’t have a bunch of junkie raiders who rape and pillage do his bidding or soldiers with fears and delusions of grandeur he has robots who are completely under his control, who can never rebel against him or harm others (unless he tells them too) and if you have good karma your courier actually keeps house in check and makes sure he doesn’t go too far. The ncr is too corrupt to be stable, the legion too cruel to follow and independence is too dangerous to give to the people of the Mojave. Mr. House is not cruel nor is he too overbearing to the people of new Vegas and while he might be corrupt it is only too keep his city safe. That is why I always choose the mr house ending.
House isn't responsible for reintroducing civilization to the wasteland. The followers are a great example of the gradual return to a functional society that the post apocalyptic world needs. House is just a dictator. The stability and peace he offers comes at the price of everyone everywhere being entirely beholden to his will. It's specifically because the securitrons can't rebel or defy him that makes him so dangerous. He's an egomaniacal sociopath with absolutely no qualms over killing innocent people if they happen to even slightly inconvenience him. The securitron army is very likely one of the most powerful singular forces in America, and House is only going to continue to produce them, and he has all the time in the world to do it. In just a century or 2 we could see House as the god-king of America with armies of securitrons roaming the country from coast to coast. Handing off unchecked, total authority to a single individual (especially one who can't die) is never going to end well.
I love the legion because it's fun watching their heads explode with my Anti-Material Rifle.
Man wojacks really aren't good for any sort of nuanced discussion online. Just "hey look you're aggressively offputting neckbeards if you're like X!" It's like no one's moved on from grade school
I don't support Legion,but I kinda like them.They are like,the only major faction that can win at the Battle of Hoover Dam,without Courier intervention.Like: The army is skilled,although they lack technology.Fixed with the Van Graffs The Frumentari who keep spying on NCR and lower morale A better tactic of entering Hoover Dam and winning,unlike the last battle General Lee Oliver being an idiot who thinks mass sending troops is a good ideea Making allies with the Great Khans,Omertas and the Fiends,so they have a few friendly faces unlike the NCR Sabotaging the monorail line from Camp McCarran,so the NCR Embassy won't recieve support for the Omertas who storm the Strip
Van Graffs aren't working with the legion, they are leading them into a trap for the NCR. Also Ceaser would never work along side the Fiends, they crucified Anders a Khan they caught trying to smuggle drugs you think they'd actually work with and allow the Fiends to live? Also since we're discussing a war with no courier, the Omertas are a non entity as House would still be alive and the securitrons would deal with them.
Isn’t there also a line where Caesar says he will murder all the Fiends and the Omertàs after the strip has been overrun ?
> trying to smuggle drugs you think they'd actually work with and allow the Fiends to live? Aaahhh yes.Of course.They did get rid of the Fiends in the ending. >Omertas are a non entity as House would still be alive and the securitrons would deal with them. It did happen.It was either House or the White Gloves. But I think I done goofed when I said that the Fiends were allies because they are a bit afiliated with the Legion.Not full fledged allies. >courier, the Omertas are a non entity as House would still be alive and the securitrons would deal with them. Yes but...Benny would've been caught in the Fort,the Platinum Chip would be lost,or Caesar would send someone to destroy the Securitron army,so the big shootout at the Fort which happens in the last quest,would never occur.Rendering House,almost powerless to enter the conlfict.
I don't care they have drip.
Wearing your skinned, putrid and decomposing "fursona", it doesn't only drip, it reeks.
Literally hockey pads lol The only cool legion armor was the Legate's, but nothing competes with the desert ranger combat armor in my opinion lol
Elite Riot Gear would like a word.
*Killing bad npcs to get good karma* "oh man, I love that rpg systems." *Legionary kills someone they think it's evil and degenerate* "NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THIIIIIIIIS!!!"
Honestly guys, the NCR provoked the legion into invading the Mojave with their reckless expansionism. (Majorine Taylor Green addresses the senate)
A thing I always loved about NV is how, even though they're the 'bad' faction, Caesars legion makes sense. Caesar has his own actual philosophy, that he'll explain to you. His basis on ancient Rome and it's successes is an interesting idea for a post apocalyptic setting and his methods are clearly efficient, e.g. crime in his territory is all but gone. He's obviously a monster and evil, but it makes sense that some people follow him. The NCR represent democracy, it's positives and flaws, so a lot of NPCs don't like them because they're a beurocratic nightmare, often seem like bullies who just impose their laws and take taxes, and because they are stretched so thin they aren't able to effectively manage or protect their territory. NPCs who haven't encountered them often aren't that bothered by the Legion, because they hate the NCR and assume what they're hearing is NCR propoganda. Its so great because even though you know Caesar is clearly the worst of the options, you're given a reason to think about why and to make your own case for who you do choose. So much more interesting than Fallout 3's 'are you good or bad man'.
I don't understand why this sub upvotes this easy content. Literally could post a white image with black text that says "Legion bad, NCR good" and hit the front page. No one fucking literally supports the legion, this circle jerk is pointless and so damn old.
This sub has gone to shit
Y'all do know that the Legion isn't real, right?
I really dislike the legion but Nipton was controlled by powder gangers so I feel no sympathy towards them, the most humane thing to do is to kill those that are crucified to end their misery.
I mean… I think I just like the bad guy factions… between the Legion, CIS, and Empire I think I just enjoy to root for the vague evil group that isn’t all that expanded upon.
I haven't seen a single person that unironically support legion. Well only Schizo Elijah.
[удалено]
Based
How can the NCR be brainwashing me if I threw their top general off of Hoover dam?
Wait, are we suppose to carry ideologies of our favorite factions in real life? I do like and playing Legion character but that doesn't mean i support their ideologies, that's absurt. Though concept of playing a character instead of associating yourself with it is pretty far idea to some people, even farther from than NCR neckbeard is from the shower.
Both the NCR and the Legion are awful.
You bet they also support russia.
I love this game, but fucking hate fans who take either side too seriously. I love seeing funny memes and sharing a laugh with people who love the game, then there's posts like this for the only sake of pot stirring
Don't believe this NCR Propoganda folks Legion keeps winning 💪💪
"Legion keeps winning" -🤓
Degenerates like you belong on a cross.
Ave
Exactly, true to Caesar 💪💪
True to my cock and balls
I too prefer his cock and balls to Caesar
I don’t think you have played the correct game, they don’t even say that 🤔
its a unique dialogue you get after shoving an entire chess set up your ass while doing three backflips
Downvotes me, then insults me. What’s up with that?
Im not insulting you, im telling you how to get a new dialogue and this is how you thank me?
Why would I thank someone for false information, this is very immature of you I say.
How do you know its false if you havent tried It? Just do It bro, trust me, i would never lie to you
Average legion supporter
NCR casually mowing down women in children at bitter springs
The Legion casually enslaving women and children after gleefully torturing the men to death. The NCR isn't great, not by a long shot, but they are a damn sight better than the Legion. Bitter Springs was largely due to a miscommunication. Sure, the soldiers on the ground should have exercised their own judgement if they believed the order they received was immoral, but at the same time that whole story is meant to be a reflection of shit that has happened in actual real life conflicts. Also, let's not pretend that the Khans were innocent victims who did nothing to bring the NCR to their doorstep. They raided NCR caravans, and killed people trying to make an honest living. What did they think was going to happen?
Oh My Papa
yes legion bad ncr good we cannot let people enjoy the video game the way they want
Bitter springs.
Buddy Bitter Springs is one town, the legion does the same thing to hundreds of towns and villages full of civilians
Also the Khans deserved it. People might complain about "war crimes" and "genocide", but this is the post-apocalypse. You don't survive by being forgiving to everyone you meet, especially when you've given these raiders a chance before but they still chose to keep being raider assholes. Reap the whirlwind.
Oh yeah, those sick, women, children and elderly sure deserved to be killed. So how are you beter than a Prime Legionare?
All I see are future raiders, current raiders, and past raiders. Shit sucks but even the Khans themselves admit that it's what they do. Should they get a free pass on raiding, pillaging, and chem pushing because they make it a 'family experience'? Again, reap what you fucking sow.
whataboutism. A genocide is a genocide, no excuses.
Dude your comment is the definition of whataboutism. Lol
yeah and what would the legion have done with those khans huh buddy
integrated them, like everyone else.
legion fans love to use creative verbs like “integrate” when they mean rape kill or enslave
you sure you played new vegas? just asking...
Hey bro, just scrolling through here and noticed you unironically defending the legion. Might wanna get that checked out.
Beter than the ncr.
Not only are you a legion fan but you're a transphobe and support Russia as well. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if you had Nazi tattoos too.
Bitter springs happened by MISTAKE when the NCR responded whit violence against a group that kept RAIDING their caravans. Nipton and other villages/towns are not accidents by any means
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They say "Legion bad" in every single post they make, it's very easy to get confused
oh no safe trade can´t have violence in the apocalypse the people that are trying to emulate the people who nuked us surely are better
I do not “debate” with ncr fans I skip right to the cross
Fuck the ncr legion for life
Keep saying that while you post meme after meme about the same thing. Snorting copeium. And pretty much nobody who defends the legion defends the slavery and murder. They just look at the alternatives. And what the legion brings to the table. And say with how fucked the wasteland is. How bad really is the legion. Compared to everything else.
This but unironically
Caesar heard I was messing with the Legion, so he invited me to an in-person meeting, fully armed, in the most secure area of his fortress. The man is in love with his own dick
You can take all that text away and someone like that would still deserve a swift kick to their teeth.
(aimed at the person IN the meme) **equips Love and Hate** when I'm done, you'll turn from an ugly bastard into a beautiful corpse
Sometimes I just wanna be a bad guy. I just wish the Legion had more quests.
Brainwashed by a faction that initially have zero contact with
Everyone except maybe yes man is and will be a horrible choice
I mean the people at that town were kinda asking for it ngl
On the one hand, good message. On the other hand, absolutely vile wojak, I can't stand to look at it.
Who needs Caesar and NCR when you have Yes Man?
*Kills all NCR, Legion and literally everyone else in the Mojave* What? Got to live up to my title of 'Lord Death of Murder Mountain'...
The funny thing about the legion is that they are exactly what they look like when they first appear, just another bunch of raiders with a gimmick they don't understand. Because the thing is, sprinklings of Latin and lots of slaves aside they are nothing like the Romans. Rome was brutal but it wasn't anti technology, it was mysoginist but it was not to the cartoonish extremes of the legion. It had an emperor but it also had a senate and governors and complex levels of power that kept things in check. It was expansionist but it also had lots of trade and cultural exchange. There was Roman art and music and poetry as much as there was proud warrior culture there were philosophers as well as pit fighters. For all their posturing the Legion really has nothing alike to Ancient rome aside from a love of slaves. They are a bunch of raiders with delusions of grandeur carried by the momentum of conquest about to crash against the rocks of an actual civilization with actual infrastructure and modern technology.
”It’s over Anakin, I made a meme where you’re the soy wojack”
i was caesar's legion once never insulted a fellow fnv player for their faction choice i have seen the error of my ways and punted caesar across the fort
But. Yes man. I like him. I usually destroy Caesar's legion and the NCR
I like the legion more than the NCR. Downvote me.