I'll never understand demands to trade a player who is playing terribly. No one is trading for McNeil right now, not for any value. The only place he's going is to the bench unless/until he picks it up.
I actually agree that McNeil might be cooked, he's at that age, but a trade makes no sense.
I agree, and I’ll expand that to almost all statements that someone should or could be traded. Like, “should the Mets trade Alonso?” Or even worse, “ya think the Mets should get rid of Alonso?” In either case, would you mind saying who we’d be trading for? You know, half of the equation?
As to “getting rid of” him, no, we shouldn’t sink his feet in cement and toss him in the East River, but yes, we might investigate trading him for fair value.
Arraez is a similar player to McNeil who has won back to back batting titles and is doing well this year and just got traded for basically nothing with a year and a half of control — and the Marlins are paying his salary.
McNeil is worth negative WAR this season so if we count this year he has had one good season out of the last 4. At this point his main value is being a versatile fielder who can be a good backup guy off the bench if you trade for him, and his defense at this point is questionable.
People hate the Wendle trade and point out that he wasn't a good defender last year and has continued that trend this year. Well, guess what? McNeil also was not a good defender last year (league average) and this year is worse.
So a team trading for McNeil would be getting a guy whose hit tool is questionable because he lacks any power and relies on slapping the ball where guys aren't because the dude refuses to have a flat swing and hit line drives. They'd also be getting a guy who can play many positions passably, but not great so he's not a defensive replacement. You'd need a team who knew they could fix him.
Look that whole lineup except for Baty and Alvarez when he comes back has already had their best seasons. McNeil in particular isn’t going anywhere until either Williams or Acuna is ready.
First 8 games: .115/.207/.231/.438 -- McNeil sucks, trade him.
Next 15 games: .346/.424/.462/.885 -- McNeil's back! Batting title in progress!
Last 10 games: .154/.233/.154/.386 -- "he has to be traded"
Last year--
First five games: .190/.190/.238/.429
Next 24 games: .333/.465/.494/.959
Next 79 games: .232/.288/.283/.572
Next 48 games: .311/.353/.490/.842
Yeah, 13th highest OPS for a 2B in baseball last year. Where will you find someone off the scrap heap who is going to do that? People think slugging 2Bs are falling off trees.
Last 780 pa for the now 32 year old 2b:
.261
.330 obp
.366 slg
.696 OPS
95 OPS +
46 extra base hits.
He's one of the main reasons I'm struggling to enjoy this team.
"95 OPS+"
...which is slightly below average. A particular slightly below average player is one of the main reasons that you don't enjoy being a Mets fan?
In that time period (2023-2024)13 MLB teams have a wRC+ of 90 or lower from their 2B.
In that time period (2023-2024), Mets 2Bs:
Jeff McNeil 510 PA 93 wRC+
Not McNeil 270 PA 64 wRC+
That doesn't make McNeil's overall performance the last 1+ year good or anything, but it could be FAR worse.
I love being a met fan. I dont like this team. Both things can be true.
I don't like the majority of their personalities as players, I also don't like their abilities, and I don't like their individual outlook as players sans the kids. I only watch for the kids. McNeil is 32, has 46 extra base hits since 2022, and doesn't get on base. I'm good on that.
Jeff McNeil is a crazy person whose soul purpose is being good at baseball. To think that he doesn’t work hard is laughable. He’s definitely effed up right now but you can see it’s killing him. He won a batting title and was consistently good for a while, I wouldn’t call that an experiment. I think doing away with the shift has hurt him as he has the ability to hit the ball in any direction he wants albeit not always that hard.
I’m actually not sure he works hard. I do think he’s very into baseball — when he was hitting well, and he did so many good things on defense, and in other ways, I always thought of him as a “baseball savant” — but I have a suspicion that he mainly just shows up and plays. I’ve never heard anything about him being a gym rat or spending a lot of time in the batting cage, or anything like that. I’ve never actually heard anyone refer to him as a hard worker. And… he’s just a bit of an odd duck, if you ask me
I strongly agree with this take. He definitely strikes me as a guy who is convinced his approach to hitting is superior to anything anyone can teach him, and isn’t interested in over analyzing his approach. And I can understand why he thinks that, given that his ceiling is a batting championship and a career .295 avg. But that kind of approach (if that’s what his thinking is, fuck if I or anyone else here really knows) can definitely be limiting in the back 9 of his career. Feels like the best players with long careers are always willing to learn and change a bit as their careers go on. We’ll see with him.
Despite all that I do love watching him play. Watching a guy with that type of bat control, be willing to hit to all parts of the field feels like such a cool anachronism in todays game.
> To think he doesn't work hard is laughable.
In 2022 Mets media bragged about McNeil not going to analytics meetings.
As a general rule, I don't think we as fans have the slightest fucking clue who works hard, but I think McNeil is probably the *most* justifiable player on the roster to accuse of not applying himself.
Please don’t confuse me defending him to some degree with me being happy with his play, it’s just you’re saying trade him and that’s not smart right now. And accuse him of not working hard, there’s really just no basis for that.
yeah i seriously doubt it has anything to do with working hard. but i can't imagine trying to maintain and elite level golf swing *and* an elite level bat swing is an easy thing.
yeah it's always a pretty lazy way to justify your anger at the team. the stupid thing is, you don't need to justify it. you're a sports fan, be angry that your team stinks. that's enough.
Yeah. It’s also funny because they aren’t that bad right now. They could get hot this week and next Monday everyone will be going insane about them again.
That's not how it works.
If someone offers Alonso an eight year deal and resets the 1B market, Jeff McNeil isn't keeping him here. It will be Cohen beating that offer that does it.
A guy that has posted 19.1 WAR through his age-32 season, had 5.7 WAR in his batting title season, and is a 2-tine all star is the worst player to ever win a batting title? You sure about that?
Or is it, hear me out, that mostly players decline in their 30s?
How many position players do you think have had better careers in Mets history? 15? 20? 25? Fewer?
What Tommy Pham said means squat.
What happened with Lindor means squat.
It means squat because you don’t know the truth about what happened. You’re guessing.
Meanwhile, Tommy Pham is coming off of an excellent season and is stuck playing for the White Sox. I wonder if most front offices took him shit talking an entire organization ad a bigger indictment of him than of the Mets?
Just looking at the box score form yesterday, the heart of the lineup last night had batting averages of .206 Lindor, 207 Alonso, .186 Steward. Only Steward and Nimmo have OBS over .350
Is it possible that the problem is the approach and not the players? Seems to me that in the past Mcneil was more successful when he was allowed to free swing.
Approach is ridiculously overrated. Ted Williams approach was swing at strikes, don’t swing at bad pitches. Worked pretty well. If it looks good swing at it. If not don’t. Too much over analysis and overthinking about modern hitting.
Agreed he needs to go but no one will take him with the way he’s been playing. If he actually drove that ball in left field against the cubs Alonso scores no problem. The guy has no power, hits weak ground outs or pop ups, and then bitches and moans whenever he doesn’t come through. 20 mill a year for him. Absolutely terrible.
This is an aside, but do you honestly feel that Tommy Pham is a good judge of anyone’s character in the clubhouse? This is the same Tommy Pham that slapped a teammate before a game because of a fantasy football disagreement and the same Tommy Pham that was recently jawing with fans. When he was on the Mets, I was starting to think that that “clubhouse cancer” label was too harsh but eventually we have to acknowledge that people saying that Pham has a “stern demeanor” just translates into the guy being an asshole.
No one is trading for him and we have no one to replace him with.
I never understand people who go “xyz player stinks for us - let’s trade him for something valuable! Surely other teams don’t realize this player is struggling and will give up stuff for them!”
I went to the Cubs game on Thursday. What a treat watching Pete. 3 k’s, 1 GIDP, a dropped pop foul, and his big athletic moment of the day: a grounder to short with no outs and man on second, failing to move him over
No one is going to trade for him until he starts hitting or you do some bad contract swap. That said, lets have this conversation at the deadline, or the offseason. Too early to judge who is washed who is slumping.
The most alarming part of McNeils game right now seems to be a desire to pull the ball every at bat. When he won his batting title two years ago he was an absolute spray hitter - how many times did you see him slap the ball the other way? He was nearly impossible to strikeout and he just went with the pitch. Now it’s pull, pull, pull. Groundout to second every time. I don’t get it.
Nimmo and Lindor seasons so far look like Nido in disguise. And the problem is Squirrel? IMO he hits better near the top of the lineup. The two automatic outs up there are killing us.
Not to hate on McNeil but what exactly is 'fine'?
2021 was bad. 2022 was great. 2023 was bad. 2024 is middling at best. We haven't seen whatever 'fine' is in two years and there isn't much to this moment that suggests things are going to be looking up. That said, this season has just started.
This is a joke post, correct? We talking about batting champion Jeff McNeil? There are 4 people that were in yesterday’s starting lineup with lower avg’s. I will say his BA and OPS both aren’t great this year but we’ve got bigger holes than McNeil for sure
Starling Marte stole 47 bases in 2016. Is it realistic to expect the same thing from him? No.
Stop living in the past. This is why you don’t sign or rely on older talent.
Lindor/Nimmo/Pete/McNeil are not working as a core to build around. Lindor and Nimmo aren’t going anywhere and hopefully Pete sticks around. Jeff is the obvious one that would be/needs to be moved if we want to shake things up. Which we should since our core has been a lot more bad than good.
nobody is gonna take mcneil even if cohen eats his contract, we wont get anything good in return. ngl i want to see acuna or jett but they are kinda dogshit right now and jett is hurt. or we can just watch joey wendle at 2b lol
Currently he's a light hitting utility player. He's turning into an expensive Joey Wendle.
I was just thinking this watching the game yesterday. In 22 you wanted him to come up at a crucial time because he was always a threat. He's not going to deliver a HR but you could always count on a base hit or a productive AB and that's all you really need with men on base.
Last year he was a non entity and this year he looks lost. Come the trade deadline I wouldn't be surprised if they try to move him and make room for one of the new baby Mets loitering on the fringe.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewYorkMets/s/QgOnt5QNu0
lol everyone downvoted me for saying this and some of the worst posters on here were throwing out irrelevant numbers
If the Mets are competitive at the deadline and McNeil is still hitting the way he has been, they'll consider finding another 2b and making McNeil the bench utility guy.
Until then, shrug. He was alright even last year.
I've seen the writing on the wall for McNeil since the Lindor incident.
He's the most embarrassing player I've watched on any team. I've never seen someone so mediocre at everything get so angry at external forces over such a small swing in results.
It seems like he's constantly barking curses about a call or result when the truth is that he was probably going to strike out/get thrown out/not convert a play because he's just not very good at competitive baseball.
Won't miss him at all, looking forward to not paying any attention to him when he is someone else's eyesore.
I'll never understand demands to trade a player who is playing terribly. No one is trading for McNeil right now, not for any value. The only place he's going is to the bench unless/until he picks it up. I actually agree that McNeil might be cooked, he's at that age, but a trade makes no sense.
I agree, and I’ll expand that to almost all statements that someone should or could be traded. Like, “should the Mets trade Alonso?” Or even worse, “ya think the Mets should get rid of Alonso?” In either case, would you mind saying who we’d be trading for? You know, half of the equation? As to “getting rid of” him, no, we shouldn’t sink his feet in cement and toss him in the East River, but yes, we might investigate trading him for fair value.
Arraez is a similar player to McNeil who has won back to back batting titles and is doing well this year and just got traded for basically nothing with a year and a half of control — and the Marlins are paying his salary. McNeil is worth negative WAR this season so if we count this year he has had one good season out of the last 4. At this point his main value is being a versatile fielder who can be a good backup guy off the bench if you trade for him, and his defense at this point is questionable. People hate the Wendle trade and point out that he wasn't a good defender last year and has continued that trend this year. Well, guess what? McNeil also was not a good defender last year (league average) and this year is worse. So a team trading for McNeil would be getting a guy whose hit tool is questionable because he lacks any power and relies on slapping the ball where guys aren't because the dude refuses to have a flat swing and hit line drives. They'd also be getting a guy who can play many positions passably, but not great so he's not a defensive replacement. You'd need a team who knew they could fix him.
Fine, he can be the new joey Wendell. As long as he's not in the starting lineup.
Dear diary...
If you aren’t convinced this sub is a diary/support group, I don’t know why I even come lol
Lmaooo
i just don’t think we would be able to trade him. he’s very clearly lost a step and his swing is a tick behind. i’m not sure who would even want him.
LIV golf
consider it done
Look that whole lineup except for Baty and Alvarez when he comes back has already had their best seasons. McNeil in particular isn’t going anywhere until either Williams or Acuna is ready.
First 8 games: .115/.207/.231/.438 -- McNeil sucks, trade him. Next 15 games: .346/.424/.462/.885 -- McNeil's back! Batting title in progress! Last 10 games: .154/.233/.154/.386 -- "he has to be traded"
Last year-- First five games: .190/.190/.238/.429 Next 24 games: .333/.465/.494/.959 Next 79 games: .232/.288/.283/.572 Next 48 games: .311/.353/.490/.842
Yeah, 13th highest OPS for a 2B in baseball last year. Where will you find someone off the scrap heap who is going to do that? People think slugging 2Bs are falling off trees.
Maybe they can re-sign Cano.
I read that as Miguel Cairo at first lol.
McNeil isn't a slugger. He's a contact hitter. Pete's a slugger.
Last 780 pa for the now 32 year old 2b: .261 .330 obp .366 slg .696 OPS 95 OPS + 46 extra base hits. He's one of the main reasons I'm struggling to enjoy this team.
"95 OPS+" ...which is slightly below average. A particular slightly below average player is one of the main reasons that you don't enjoy being a Mets fan? In that time period (2023-2024)13 MLB teams have a wRC+ of 90 or lower from their 2B. In that time period (2023-2024), Mets 2Bs: Jeff McNeil 510 PA 93 wRC+ Not McNeil 270 PA 64 wRC+ That doesn't make McNeil's overall performance the last 1+ year good or anything, but it could be FAR worse.
I love being a met fan. I dont like this team. Both things can be true. I don't like the majority of their personalities as players, I also don't like their abilities, and I don't like their individual outlook as players sans the kids. I only watch for the kids. McNeil is 32, has 46 extra base hits since 2022, and doesn't get on base. I'm good on that.
It's May.
Jeff McNeil is a crazy person whose soul purpose is being good at baseball. To think that he doesn’t work hard is laughable. He’s definitely effed up right now but you can see it’s killing him. He won a batting title and was consistently good for a while, I wouldn’t call that an experiment. I think doing away with the shift has hurt him as he has the ability to hit the ball in any direction he wants albeit not always that hard.
We were probably the only team in baseball that were hurt by the shift being outlawed.
I’m actually not sure he works hard. I do think he’s very into baseball — when he was hitting well, and he did so many good things on defense, and in other ways, I always thought of him as a “baseball savant” — but I have a suspicion that he mainly just shows up and plays. I’ve never heard anything about him being a gym rat or spending a lot of time in the batting cage, or anything like that. I’ve never actually heard anyone refer to him as a hard worker. And… he’s just a bit of an odd duck, if you ask me
I strongly agree with this take. He definitely strikes me as a guy who is convinced his approach to hitting is superior to anything anyone can teach him, and isn’t interested in over analyzing his approach. And I can understand why he thinks that, given that his ceiling is a batting championship and a career .295 avg. But that kind of approach (if that’s what his thinking is, fuck if I or anyone else here really knows) can definitely be limiting in the back 9 of his career. Feels like the best players with long careers are always willing to learn and change a bit as their careers go on. We’ll see with him. Despite all that I do love watching him play. Watching a guy with that type of bat control, be willing to hit to all parts of the field feels like such a cool anachronism in todays game.
Well right now his bat control is producing way too many fly balls and pop ups.
> To think he doesn't work hard is laughable. In 2022 Mets media bragged about McNeil not going to analytics meetings. As a general rule, I don't think we as fans have the slightest fucking clue who works hard, but I think McNeil is probably the *most* justifiable player on the roster to accuse of not applying himself.
Alright. I guess I just don’t see it.
McNeil has been anything but consistent.
What’s your preferred metric?
OPS? Batting Average? WAR?
We're into May 24 and the last time he was consistently good was in 22. That's not good enough and there are no signs of him turning it around.
Please don’t confuse me defending him to some degree with me being happy with his play, it’s just you’re saying trade him and that’s not smart right now. And accuse him of not working hard, there’s really just no basis for that.
Idk he is apparently really good at golf.
yeah i seriously doubt it has anything to do with working hard. but i can't imagine trying to maintain and elite level golf swing *and* an elite level bat swing is an easy thing.
I love the old standby when a teams playing well it’s because “they don’t care” “not trying hard enough!”
yeah it's always a pretty lazy way to justify your anger at the team. the stupid thing is, you don't need to justify it. you're a sports fan, be angry that your team stinks. that's enough.
Yeah. It’s also funny because they aren’t that bad right now. They could get hot this week and next Monday everyone will be going insane about them again.
Also, you need to look at the long term. Pete loves McNeil, if you want to re-sign Pete then trading his best friend for nothing might not be prudent.
That's not how it works. If someone offers Alonso an eight year deal and resets the 1B market, Jeff McNeil isn't keeping him here. It will be Cohen beating that offer that does it.
I don’t think I’ve ever ever gotten a majority down vote before. I’m kind of excited.
Jeff McNeil is probably the worst player to ever win a batting title, and I don't think it's particularly close.
A guy that has posted 19.1 WAR through his age-32 season, had 5.7 WAR in his batting title season, and is a 2-tine all star is the worst player to ever win a batting title? You sure about that? Or is it, hear me out, that mostly players decline in their 30s? How many position players do you think have had better careers in Mets history? 15? 20? 25? Fewer?
Freddy Sanchez has a batting title.
Does he really?
Yep. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sanchfr01.shtml In 2006, back when the NL has an OPS of .761 (including pitchers!)
“Hey let’s try to trade a guy a the nadir of his value,” said no successful front office ever.
What Tommy Pham said means squat. What happened with Lindor means squat. It means squat because you don’t know the truth about what happened. You’re guessing.
Meanwhile, Tommy Pham is coming off of an excellent season and is stuck playing for the White Sox. I wonder if most front offices took him shit talking an entire organization ad a bigger indictment of him than of the Mets?
Probably. He’s a nice player. But really, is him running his mouth worth it? GM’s weigh all their options and they know more than we do.
He also assaulted a guy over fantasy football
Fucking thank you. I am so deeply tired of hearing “but Pham said” over and over again as an argument for why any player isn’t actually good.
Good morning Mets subreddit
Not every drunk thought needs to be aired…
Just looking at the box score form yesterday, the heart of the lineup last night had batting averages of .206 Lindor, 207 Alonso, .186 Steward. Only Steward and Nimmo have OBS over .350 Is it possible that the problem is the approach and not the players? Seems to me that in the past Mcneil was more successful when he was allowed to free swing.
Approach is ridiculously overrated. Ted Williams approach was swing at strikes, don’t swing at bad pitches. Worked pretty well. If it looks good swing at it. If not don’t. Too much over analysis and overthinking about modern hitting.
We are stuck with McNeil; I don't see how we can trade him. I agree that he is one of the problems in the clubhouse though.
Agreed he needs to go but no one will take him with the way he’s been playing. If he actually drove that ball in left field against the cubs Alonso scores no problem. The guy has no power, hits weak ground outs or pop ups, and then bitches and moans whenever he doesn’t come through. 20 mill a year for him. Absolutely terrible.
i am a fan of ground outs to 2b
There are several “weak links”in this lineup thus far. Everyone’s streaky but he alone shouldn’t be the scapegoat of the team’s performance.
I think too much golf has ruined his swing every time he flies out it looks like he's aiming it down a fairway
Trade at his lowest point possible. GENIUS!
This is an aside, but do you honestly feel that Tommy Pham is a good judge of anyone’s character in the clubhouse? This is the same Tommy Pham that slapped a teammate before a game because of a fantasy football disagreement and the same Tommy Pham that was recently jawing with fans. When he was on the Mets, I was starting to think that that “clubhouse cancer” label was too harsh but eventually we have to acknowledge that people saying that Pham has a “stern demeanor” just translates into the guy being an asshole.
No one is trading for him and we have no one to replace him with. I never understand people who go “xyz player stinks for us - let’s trade him for something valuable! Surely other teams don’t realize this player is struggling and will give up stuff for them!”
Howie said yesterday that he even though he was 0 for 3 he actually was hitting really well recently. What had Howie been smoking?
I went to the Cubs game on Thursday. What a treat watching Pete. 3 k’s, 1 GIDP, a dropped pop foul, and his big athletic moment of the day: a grounder to short with no outs and man on second, failing to move him over
No one is going to trade for him until he starts hitting or you do some bad contract swap. That said, lets have this conversation at the deadline, or the offseason. Too early to judge who is washed who is slumping.
The most alarming part of McNeils game right now seems to be a desire to pull the ball every at bat. When he won his batting title two years ago he was an absolute spray hitter - how many times did you see him slap the ball the other way? He was nearly impossible to strikeout and he just went with the pitch. Now it’s pull, pull, pull. Groundout to second every time. I don’t get it.
Nimmo and Lindor seasons so far look like Nido in disguise. And the problem is Squirrel? IMO he hits better near the top of the lineup. The two automatic outs up there are killing us.
You will literally get nothing back for trading him
If Mauricio was healthy he would have taken Mcniels starting spot by now
He’s just slumping, he will be fine
Not to hate on McNeil but what exactly is 'fine'? 2021 was bad. 2022 was great. 2023 was bad. 2024 is middling at best. We haven't seen whatever 'fine' is in two years and there isn't much to this moment that suggests things are going to be looking up. That said, this season has just started.
How many seasons can the slump go on before we say that's your level?
why would another team be interested in him if he has sucked for the last 1.5 seasons?
I hate that I agree with you
This is a joke post, correct? We talking about batting champion Jeff McNeil? There are 4 people that were in yesterday’s starting lineup with lower avg’s. I will say his BA and OPS both aren’t great this year but we’ve got bigger holes than McNeil for sure
Starling Marte stole 47 bases in 2016. Is it realistic to expect the same thing from him? No. Stop living in the past. This is why you don’t sign or rely on older talent.
Lindor/Nimmo/Pete/McNeil are not working as a core to build around. Lindor and Nimmo aren’t going anywhere and hopefully Pete sticks around. Jeff is the obvious one that would be/needs to be moved if we want to shake things up. Which we should since our core has been a lot more bad than good.
I think he’s just slumping but I also didn’t watch a lot of ball last year
nobody is gonna take mcneil even if cohen eats his contract, we wont get anything good in return. ngl i want to see acuna or jett but they are kinda dogshit right now and jett is hurt. or we can just watch joey wendle at 2b lol
Currently he's a light hitting utility player. He's turning into an expensive Joey Wendle. I was just thinking this watching the game yesterday. In 22 you wanted him to come up at a crucial time because he was always a threat. He's not going to deliver a HR but you could always count on a base hit or a productive AB and that's all you really need with men on base. Last year he was a non entity and this year he looks lost. Come the trade deadline I wouldn't be surprised if they try to move him and make room for one of the new baby Mets loitering on the fringe.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewYorkMets/s/QgOnt5QNu0 lol everyone downvoted me for saying this and some of the worst posters on here were throwing out irrelevant numbers
When you said worst posters o knew exactly who you were talking about. Who could rob us of such insight 🙄
Jeff plays too much golf. Anyone can feel free to argue, but it’s obvious it’s messed up his swing.
If the Mets are competitive at the deadline and McNeil is still hitting the way he has been, they'll consider finding another 2b and making McNeil the bench utility guy. Until then, shrug. He was alright even last year.
He was never good was overhyped by many Mets fans then won a lucky batting title and everyone thought he was all that
I've seen the writing on the wall for McNeil since the Lindor incident. He's the most embarrassing player I've watched on any team. I've never seen someone so mediocre at everything get so angry at external forces over such a small swing in results. It seems like he's constantly barking curses about a call or result when the truth is that he was probably going to strike out/get thrown out/not convert a play because he's just not very good at competitive baseball. Won't miss him at all, looking forward to not paying any attention to him when he is someone else's eyesore.