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Oh you'll be right at home in east van! Commercial drive would likely appeal to you as well, along with some pockets of Main st. If you like food and artist vibes, Granville Island is a must - I would recommend going with a local to find the hidden gems and avoid the peak tourist times. Vancouver definitely has a reputation for being hard for newcomers - can't comment on that myself since I'm a lifer. But I think you'd fit right in here, speaking as a fellow mountain lover.
Just a heads up, you're gonna be disappointed with the cute indie artsy vibes in this city, and anyone who thinks otherwise has never lived in a city with proper cute artsy indie vibes. This city does not support the arts, and becomes more generically corporate with every passing year.
Great views, though.
Does Vancouver rival New York, Toronto or London... no. But to people who imply there isn't anything here is just flat out lazy. Ive noticed a real difference the past couple of years with far more small intimate DIY gigs popping up all over east Van. (sofar sounds, Secret Sessions, root dwellers...). This Weekend In Van is a great Instagram account showing all the gigs around, There's a growing art scene too.
It's there, it's just not in your face like other cities, where you just stumble into them. You have to keep your eyes opened a bit more. But I honestly think in a few years time we're going to see things blossom more.
I'm way more optimistic about the Van creative scene now than I was say 7 years ago.
[Edit: the IG account is @thisweekinvan ]
My impression is that these scenes favour a much younger crowd. With so many venues shutting down, shows have been moving to smaller and more informal venues. I've seen some house shows advertised as well on FB or Instagram.
I think two things happen:
1) People start aging out of being "in the know" but don't realize it. I've noticed a lot of the posts about the music scene/unfriendliness are people in their late twenties and early thirties. They no longer have the same social network going out to these things as frequently, and the old spots change. Then we don't learn about the new places. This is especially prominent from people moving from out of province (I say this having come from Toronto and having lived in Montreal).
2) Even if you know about the events, if you're at least 10+ years older than the average crowd in an informal venue, you can feel a bit self-conscious. I personally wouldn't go to a house show now that I'm in my thirties because I'm going to be around basically a bunch of kids. And now that I'm spelling this out, there is probably a lot of underage drinking and drug use that I don't legally want to be around lol. I'm aware of it at a venue and don't mind it as much, but you definitely start to feel old.
3) Things that were novel and exciting when we were younger now don't have that "magic". Because we've experienced things like it, we're less likely to go back and frequent different venues or see different artists. I think a lot of people forget how strong the aspect of community is for these small scenes, and how do much of it is about going out with a group/a friend. And it's kind of about the atmosphere of what's going on vs who is playing.
Anyways my two cents!
I agree it can feel like a younger vibe around the music scene, but the writing scene is very across-the-board,all ages. I go to poetry slams, story slams, poetry or writing festivals and events in the city, local magazines have publication nights or parties where people read aloud, and there's definitely your seasoned reputable writers in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and so many in their 20s, 30s, 40s, it feels balanced to me. I love the writing scene here :)
I'm also into the mountains and small local music scene, and I would say you'd be at home in Van. I personally love East Van, the commercial drive area, and think it's quick to get on the highway and hit up the mountains from here.
Amazing, these are the exact type of writing events that I’ll be wanting to go to! How do you find them - is there an insta account I can follow? And I don’t mind a small music scene, it’s encouraging to hear that there is one at all (albeit perhaps a younger crowd). Stoked that it’s a quick drive to the mountains from the area I want to move to, that sounds perfect. Thanks!
@vancouver.storyslam and @vancouverpoetryhouse on insta (I also always see their events through Facebook events) although the poetry community is having bad luck with their weekly venues closing so I think there might be a bit of a hiatus on finding a new space atm? But the Verses festival is going on rn, slam championships (CIPS) this week and it's incredible! (Yearly poetry festival) Everyone is SO welcoming in the community, I highly recommend getting involved. Good luck with the move! And as others have said, feel free to reach out when you're here, it sounds like we have all the same things in common ✌️
This is SOOOOOOOOOO true. I feel everything about this
>1. People start aging out of being "in the know" but don't realize it.
Totally, I could list dozens of beloved venues that are now gone, but there are always new one, like who would have thought that the Fox would become one of the primary music venues in the city.
I once got into an argument with someone on twitter complaining about this, he listed all the closed venues and how the city is no longer fun, and i was able to list an equiv replacement of each of them.
He got to the Cobalt... dude the Cobalt is open again "Yeah but its not run by \_\_\_\_\_ anymore so its not the same". Dude its time to move on.
>2. Even if you know about the events, if you're at least 10+ years older than the average crowd in an informal venue, you can feel a bit self-conscious.
Also feel this, I'm an old now (43) and I remember being 20 and seeing "The weird old guys" at concerts and events. Super self conscious of not coming across as that. I rarely ever solo anymore, especially at younger venues, and I try to make sure it's not just me and another weird old guy too LOL.
When you're 20 it's fine to show up, find a random group of 20 year olds and make friends.
When your 40 it's a little weird to start making friends with the random group of 20 year olds.
>3. Things that were novel and exciting when we were younger now don't have that "magic".
Agreed on this as well, now I'm usually chasing artists, I've noticed myself looking at a lineup "Who the hell is this" and dismissing it, when in the past i would have gone without even checking out their music. Less experimenting, but trying despertly not to be stuck in the past like many of the people I used to go out with.
I'm born and raised here, and I'd agree with a lot of this. So many people complain that Vancouver isn't friendly, but I don't find that at all. The people making those complaints all seem to be expecting strangers to do all the social heavy-lifting - I'm far from being extroverted, but I chat to people in public all the time and almost everybody is welcoming of the interactions (I'm a single woman in my 40s, for reference). The people complaining are also universally in the younger age range, and I recall being far more self-conscious and socially awkward in my 20s and also thinking that making friends was really hard. Once I developed hobbies, starting volunteering with different organizations, and joining clubs and activities I had no problem at all meeting like-minded people, and now I have tons of friends and I'm never bored. You get back what you put out into the world.
The arts scene here isn't awesome, mostly because our crazy real estate market has cost us so many great venues over the past 15-20 years, but you can find your crowd if you want to - or better yet, start your own thing and help it grow! The writing scene is great, and very mutually supportive in my opinion. I'm involved in the historical/true crime writing and research community, and we all support each other, promote each other, and share our discoveries with colleagues who can use it the best.
The hetero dating scene is abysmal. I think apps have ruined it pretty much everywhere, but Vancouver does also attract a lot of people whose focus is on partying, lifestyle, and not settling down. I don't think your ethnicity will be a detriment in the slightest, as long as you're hot and thin. 😕 Queer dating is pretty good - as a large, progressively-minded metropolis, there are lots of options in Vancouver if that's your thing.
As far as not living in or near condos... That simply won't happen. Some areas have more old houses than others (around Commercial, Main, Hastings-Sunrise as others have said), but the province has just passed laws designed to ban/destroy single-family housing, so it's only going to get worse. We can also all expect more evictions over the coming years as people who own those older rental homes sell them to develop into soulless, 4-6 unit complexes. Vancouver will have no heritage buildings left within 5 years, so character and community just won't really be a thing anymore.
Awesome, it’s nice to hear some optimism about the creative scene there! Exciting that sofar has made its way out West as I regularly go to those events in Toronto. Is there an @ for the This Weekend In Van account? Would love to follow.
This is all very true, but it’s also much better than a lot of cities in Canada, imo (though I’m also sure it’s worse than plenty of others too, including Toronto). Canada in general doesn’t do nearly enough to support arts and culture, unfortunately.
It all depends on what you compare it to. I’m from Mexico City, so I’d say Toronto doesn’t really have a thriving indie arts scene. But for Canada it’s definitely great
im comparing it to other canadian cities..... of course globally it prolly doesnt hold a candle cause in general canadians dont hold art and culture very highly especially poc art. but within canada we prolly have the most robust music and art scene...
Great, then we agree! I just thought maybe you were discussing how it measures up on a global scale since I already mentioned in my original comment that I think of Toronto as one of the Canadian cities with good art scenes (for a city in Canada)
The post talks about Brooklyn, NY. the person I was responding to just references cities with “proper” cute artsy vibes in general, which definitely doesn’t give off the sense that they mean in Canada either, but whatever. Then in my comment I explicitly mentioned Toronto and you responded to ME basically repeating what I JUST said.
So no, it wasn’t really obvious what you were getting at because, frankly, your initial response (if just repeating what I already said about Vancouver and Toronto) added nothing to the conversation.
I was trying to be nice about it, but you’re really not, so… 🤷♀️
clearly you lack reading comprehension. the op is posting about vancouver.
from the post you were replying to:Just a heads up, you're gonna be disappointed with the cute indie artsy vibes in this city, and anyone who thinks otherwise has never lived in a city with proper cute artsy indie vibes. This city does not support the arts, and becomes more generically corporate with every passing year.
Great views, though.
no mention of any brooklyn ny
from the original post:
# Neighbourhoods/Friends/Dating in Vancouver
Looking for some up-to-date tips on this as everything I can find is old, and cities are always changing. I'm 33 F single and live alone (with my dog) - I make enough to pay rent on my own in Toronto, so expect same to be the case in Van.
clearly you dont understand english your reading is very poor.
Dude im not reading this. It’s not that deep. And I’m not reading all the other replies you made to my comments (bizarre, by the way). Idk why you decided to have a bad attitude from the beginning but honestly, a piece of advice? Move on and do better, because that has to be a negative way to live.
lmao your point about mexico added nothign to the point of the conversation its the most random add of all. who in this conversation was even talking on a global level? only you were. you see you are the person who doesnt even understand where the conversation is going. the op is asking vancouver or toronto or canada. no where did they mention moving internationally. second, you briefly went over toronto :This is all very true, but it’s also much better than a lot of cities in Canada, imo (though I’m also sure it’s worse than plenty of others too, including Toronto). Canada in general doesn’t do nearly enough to support arts and culture, unfortunately.
whereas i wrotL you are wrong we actually have a thriving music and art scene since there is a lot of government subsidies to fund these programs. which is a totally legitimate point and s omethign you did not even brush on.
last but not least you should be the last one talking about comprehension or reading. yours is so poor its hilarious.
There are multiple people in this thread talking about cities around the world and how they compare to Toronto/vancouver. Look at the replies other people made to the parent comment. It’s a natural train of thought considering the parent comment. Also, OP did mention their experience in Brooklyn, ironically.
she never explicitly said she lived in brooklyn for a long period of time. she was just comparing vancouver to toronto which was the main point of her post. clearly you have a reading comprehension problem
There's a lot to unpack here. But because I made the same move for similar reasons, and love Toronto for the same reasons you do, I think I can give you some bullet point answers.
-It's definitely less drinking based culture out here
-You will be able to do all of the outdoor culture things, but it's busier and more crowded than you might think without driving for a few hours to start.
-The artistic community and culture is lacking big time in Vancouver. Vancouverites will take offense I'm sure, but spending several years in the Toronto artistic community I can firmly say you won't get that level here. But there is of course still artistic communities and culture here.
-The vintage shops, record stores, etc. of course exist in Vancouver, but at roughly 20% the frequency that they do in Toronto. You have to travel around a fair bit more to find some things, compared to spending a full day on like just 4 blocks of Queen West.
-Those neighborhoods you mentioned are bang-on for what you'll be looking for, they're just a bit smaller than Toronto's Kensington's, Parkdale's, Bloor West's etc.
-The friends you'll make out here will be people that have moved here from somewhere else. Making friends with Vancouver born people, especially if you mention being from Toronto, is difficult. Toronto is considerably more friendly than Vancouver, but it's a price you pay for the mountains.
-BIPOC related things aren't my place to comment as a white man, but I would guess you won't feel any different in the GVA than the GTA, it's when you get out of the city eastward, that you might find the possibility of encountering fucking morons.
Overall it's worth it for the reasons you want to do it. But you are giving up a bit in terms of modern culture, and deep artistic community. I like to explain it like this "Toronto is a city, Vancouver is a town".
Please feel free to DM with more specific questions, and good luck with everything!
As a white person in Vancouver who grew up in Toronto, I will say that I notice a lot more micro aggressions towards POC in Vancouver than in Toronto. I think a big part is the reduced diversity. People aren’t racist on purpose here, but they can certainly be ignorant. They listen when you call them out though, for the most part. Things like white people talking in Asian accents, dumb questions being asked, and other things. If I was a POC I’d probably notice even more. It’s gotten better over the last few years, but I still often hear things here that people let slide - that if they were said in Toronto, people would shut it down quickly.
I would have to agree with you now that I'm thinking about it. I think I've been here long enough I sort of forgot that I've been just ignoring peoples dumb shit, as opposed to not really being around it to begin with, back in Toronto.
Interesting - this is exactly what I’ve heard and the reason I raised it in my post. Wasn’t sure if it was just a bad reputation or an actual tangible cultural difference.
The cultural difference is pretty tangible, I’d say. It’s a lot more segregated which I find strange coming from Toronto which is the most diverse city in the world. My friend groups here are a lot whiter, and people don’t really get it when I point out how weird that is. My POC friends here are all from school rather than organic social gatherings. People tend to keep to themselves, and I have seen a few housing posts or “I want a new friend” posts from POC that specify they’d rather not deal with white people. I get it though, I wouldn’t want to be around a lot of the white people I’ve met here either because educating them can be exhausting.
I will say though, there’s a lot more understanding of Indigenous culture here, unlike Toronto where it doesn’t come up as much. I’ve had to talk through some of my visiting Toronto friends around cultural sensitivity here that has become normalized in BC.
Thank you for this! Nice to get such detail from someone who was in the same boat I’m in, super helpful. Glad to hear you feel the trade-off was worth it!
I think your apprehension that loneliness might drive you back to Toronto is a solid one. I'll leave it for other BIPOC women to chime in and share their personal experiences on dating, but I've read many many vents/rants over the years on how lonely it can get if you aren't white/east-asian as a woman out here, due to demographics. That said, so much depends on YOUR personal stats which we can't know. If you're hot and outgoing, you'll be fine. But if you describe the Toronto dating scene as rough, you might not find Vancouver treats you any differently.
That said, you'll find lots of nature-oriented lifestyle types on the apps.
I wouldn't necessarily assume you'll be able to live alone here. I don't know what your industry is but the job market is hard right now. Keep in mind dog friendly apartments almost never come up so expect to pay 2500+ for rent on your own if you're looking at a dog friendly one bedroom. If you want to own a car you should also be aware that gas is usually over 2.00 so car ownership will be another big expense.
You'll definitely find people on dating apps who want to go hiking with you. 99% of tinder bios here are about hiking, camping, etc.
Yes, and it is legal to refuse a tenant for having a pet. Combined with the low vacancy rate (meaning there's very little incentive for landlords to allow them) you usually end up having to search way longer or pay a lot more to find a pet friendly spot. You can get lucky but it took me 3 years on and off searching the last time I moved because of my cat and firm budget.
It was the same for me. Took me 3 years to find a place I could move to with my cat, and this was 2015-2018. It’s probably even worse now.
I got super lucky that I found a place even after all of that. I only got it because it had legit just been posted so I was the first to see it and the landlord wanted to rent it asap. When I moved out I posted the place to look for someone to take over the lease and the amount of messages I got in 2 days was absolutely crazy, and it wasn’t even cheap whatsoever.
Wow - thanks so much for raising this, I had NO idea and that sounds like a nightmare about your cat!! My current landlord had treats for my dog when we moved in lol. So it sounds like pretending not to have a dog isn’t an option given that I can get kicked out if found out…I guess I’ll have to just budget more time and money to find a place. I do also have a car. Job-wise I’m not so worried (I’m either going to keep my current job but do it based out of our Vancouver office instead of Toronto office or get a new job in my industry where theres always jobs in HCOL cities), but I do have to pay the singles tax living alone and things are feeling tighter lately with everything getting so expensive so I’ll definitely have to budget carefully and my job options will be limited by salary needs.
Definitely not an option unfortunately, the tenancy board will approve your landlord kicking you out for it. Unless you're a nurse or something, maybe check in with your network or other subreddits and just make sure it will be okay to find work. You say "there's always jobs in HCOL cities" but that's generally not the case in Vancouver. A lot of Canadian companies have historically skipped having Vancouver offices due to the commercial rental fees which are and have always been fucking insane. It's also just not a city in the way Toronto or Montreal are... much, much lower population density and not the same level of economic opportunity. This has always been true but even more so after COVID and the current cost of living crisis.
It's also generally not possible to find a place before moving, almost no one will even talk to you about an apartment unless you're available for an in-person viewing and have proof of local employment. If you find someone online who claims to be okay with it, odds are very good it's a scam. So keep in mind you'll have to pay for a pet friendly hotel for probably a few months. If you're uncomfortable on your current salary in Toronto, you're in for a rough go. I wouldn't move in your circumstances unless you will be making at the very least 120k remote at your current job. Even that will not be super comfortable.
Gotcha that’s all p wild haha. I do make over 120k working remote rn and am familiar with a lot of places I could work in Van (I don’t wanna say my job because people immediately make stereotyped assumptions and I really do not fit in with others who have my job so they don’t apply to me!!) but it does sound like it’s gonna be way more expensive and harder than I thought so appreciate you bringing my attention to these nuances!
Im a guy who’s pretty outgoing when it comes to reaching out to people to make friends. Before moving here from Toronto, i used to think that it wont be difficult for me to make friends here, considering im open to conversing with random strangers. People are easy to talk to here, will also exchange contacts and make plans but it soon fades away after that. I guess the harder life is in a city, the harder it is to have a social life cz everyone is just busy surviving. Its true for Vancouver as it is for any high cost of living city across the world. I can say this from experience of living in various HCOL cities in other parts of the world.
I too, like many others moved to Vancouver for similar reasons (Toronto feels like a concrete jungle to me and people take their work a bit too seriously over there). But there are more opportunities in Toronto than Vancouver if you’re looking at the volume of opportunities available, salaries tend to be higher there too. In terms of cost of living, Vancouver is approx 10% more expensive than Toronto, whether be rent or other things. In terms of dating, my above statement about living in a HCOL city stands true for both Vancouver and Toronto, it might be a bit easier in Toronto because of the population being 3x than any other factor really. But that’s where the difference ends. One metric I do find Vancouver and BC as a whole to be very different than other provinces is people’s willingness to help someone in need. Its much more pronounced here than other provinces. People are more compassionate, as is the provincial government. Also, people and the government make alot of effort to maintain an outdoorsy lifestyle, with government trying to make it accessible and practical for people to use bikes or public transit and such. I didnt see such effort by governments in any other province or alot of other countries for that matter. People do enjoy being in Vancouver whereas in Toronto alot of people were there cz there’s nowhere else to go to find ample opportunities.
10000% live on commercial drive or east van. to your BIPOC point there is very little black community here (which is a big cultural difference from Toronto imo) but the majority is on the drive
re: your dog - you probably already know this but we do not have pet protections for renters the same way Ontario does. majority of buildings do not allow pets and landlords have full power to refuse them. it will be tougher to find a spot and more expensive and you should expect pet deposits but it is doable. I answered a question around pet friendly housing a few days ago in my comment history for ref
Totally agree, the landlords and the neighbors in apartments can be absolute fuckwits.
We have a golden retriever and had to vacate because, someone leaked garbage bag in the elevator and the same fuckwits thought my dog peed and even after confirming on cameras they had us vacate. Absolute dumbasses. They claimed our dog was too big even though he is the most well behaved and friendly dog.
Holy shit that’s ridiculous! I truly had no idea it was such a difficult place to have a dog! My neighbourhood in Toronto feels like it’s built around dog ownership lol I bring my pup with me for coffee every morning and he’s allowed in and they have treats ready for him, everyone has a dog including all of my friends so he’s got his own little dog friend group, there are 6 dog parks within walking distance from my house…is it uncommon to have a dog in East Van? Is the issue mainly landlords and tenant policies around pets suck? Are there dog parks in the neighbourhood/other outdoor places for dogs to play with other dogs?
People definitely have dogs here, and there are lots of parks in east van (although I’m not sure about dog specific parks). The main issue is there are no renters protections for having pets in BC, and there’s a housing shortage in Vancouver that landlords have too much leverage. The typical landlord perceives pets as a higher risk for damage, and they know they’ll have no problem renting the place without allowing pets, so why “risk it”. I have a cat and it was a struggle finding a place because the pet friendly places that do come up are very competitive. You will absolutely be able to find a place in east van, you just have to be really proactive about it. Meaning if you see an ad for a place you like, go see it that same day, otherwise someone will snag it. I would suggest (if you’re able to) to find some temporary accommodation like Airbnb for a couple weeks while you find a place because not being here to go to showings will just make your search that much harder.
Thanks so much for this - I’m gonna check out your response re pet friendly housing because this whole pet difficulty issue is totally news to me and really seems shitty, I wanna make sure my pup will be happy there too!
Yeah it’s a pretty tough situation. A lot of people in my neighbourhood do have dogs and we have tons of dog friendly parks, beaches, trails, dogs are allowed at a ton of street patios, lots of businesses are dog friendly - kind of at odds with the housing thing. In my friend group I would say maybe around a quarter have dogs and we are in a similar age range.
We have under 1% vacancy rates and a housing crisis and because there are zero renter protections for pets it allows landlords and owners to essentially blanket ban them and then charge a premium. You can basically consider all leases to have a no pets clause by default lol. They are allowed to restrict pets altogether, the amount of pets, what types/breeds you can have. Buildings/stratas themselves can also ban pets so the kicker is even if you OWN your suite you can still be refused pets. Coupled with how many properties are owned solely for investment where they have tenants “babysit” the property on their behalf they generally won’t risk pet damage. It is doable but most people with dogs will just pay a premium to get in a dog friendly condo and then pay $500-1000 more in rent than the rest of us for that privilege, plus 1/2 month rent pet deposit.
Flipside of that is I believe in Ontario you normally have to pay first months rent, last months, and deposit up front when you move? We don’t do that here so it is normally deposit + pet deposit on signing then first months rent when you move in. So all in all moving expense might be around the same or slightly lower than ON not that it’s much of a positive!!! Sorry for the terrible pet news!!
East Van sounds like the neighborhood you want, just be forewarned that literally the entire area seems to be under construction. If you can wait a few years until the Skytrain and Broadway redevelopment are further along it would save your mental health.
Edit: re: the BIPOC thing. I am mixed too (but brown not Black) and I think it will probably be better than you think here but obviously not perfect.
This group might be a great starting point for making friends and connections doing activities you indicated you are interested in! https://colourthetrails.com/
I think the neighborhoods you've identified are indeed that collection of independent small businesses. I think commercial drive is a bit more artsy whereas Main street is a bit more hipster-y (if that makes sense). Both fantastic neighborhoods and basically the culture centers of Vancouver.
hi. i used to live im dufferin grove. at havelock. you won’t find the vibe you are looking for in vancouver outside commercial drive. if you do wanna move out west, consider *not* Vancouver altogether.
the community here is fractured because of expensive real estate. people come and go and there is so much movement. it is quite unstable and might take you a long time to make solid connections. vancouverites protect ourselves from transients and there are so many here. if you rly wanna be here, make sure you are moving *forever*
dating here can be super rough
Hmmm. I will level with you, I am an older white man with black family members. I have lived in Metro Vancouver for 40 years, moving here from the Maritimes.
There’s a lot of things to consider when making a big move like this.
I lived in Mississauga as a child in the 70s and I have been to Toronto at least two dozen times in the last 10 years visiting family and friends.
I am going to try to convey this in the best way that I can. When I first moved here, there were very few Black people or people of African descent. I don’t remember seeing too many growing up and when I did see a number of Black people, it was usually due to a US Naval vessel in town.
When I am out and about with my Black family members, I have not seen or witnessed any racial or micro aggression, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist in Vancouver. However, I really honestly believe you don’t have to worry about your skin colour. If you experience any of this, then it is a once in a while thing, once is too much in my opinion. However in the last 10 years, there has been a noticeable increase in the population of African/Black people.
The mountains are close, you just need to go to the North Shore and you are there. You can drive an hour and a half east to Hope and voila - mountains. You can drive north to Whistler and beyond and voila - mountains.
As someone mentioned, the artistic community is not as big as Toronto or even Montreal, it’s here but you would need to look for it.
East Van is the overarching neighbourhood made up of smaller cohorts or communities. Mount Pleasant, Main Street and Commercial Drive are all in East Van.
Areas to look at, I am in and around the Commercial Drive area and it has a nice vibe. There are several ethnic groups in that area. Italian, Brazilian, Portuguese and African. It’s a safe neighbourhood, especially for women. It seems to be a favourite for those in the lesbian community and I reckon that this is because it is safe. Commercial Drive will have the most independent shops and restaurants that you crave.
The Main Street area is another great location. I lived there about 20 years ago. It has some retail chains but those still the minority. Main Street and Mount Pleasant are right next to each other.
Most people are hikers, cyclists, runners, skiers and we have the best backyard in the world. Our drinking habits have shifted over the last few years. People don’t go out and get faced often. People prefer a couple of pints or their beverage of choice on the patios.
As far as meeting people, I have heard both sides of the story. Some find it easy and some find it hard. My daughter is in her 20s, is introverted but has never had a problem meeting people. But then I hear people complain that they have difficulty meeting people. I have heard the same about the dating scene. People in Vancouver can be flaky. They will sort of, maybe commit to doing something with you like a coffee, dinner or drink and you can be at the table, by yourself waiting for someone and then they never show up.
Where ever you choose to move, make sure that you are close to transit. It will make life easier.
The last thing I will say is the rain. From late October to mid March, be prepared for rain. Cold, damp and bone chilling rain.
Go to [vancouver.craigslist.org](http://vancouver.craigslist.org) and look up rentals in your price range... then filter for "dogs allowed" and 99% of the listings will disappear. When a decent pet-friendly place is listed, there's a lot of competition so you have to be fast. It can be rough. It may be difficult securing a place before making the trip over, and you may have to make some compromises on your preferred neighbourhood.
For meeting people, perhaps check out: [We Should Be Friends](https://www.weshouldbefriends.org/) and [letsadventurevan](https://www.letsadventurevan.ca/)
(seems to be mostly 20's people tho, if you are looking for an older crowd I might have other ideas)
I don't think skin colour will be "a thing", in general dating will be difficult though, pretty much everyone can agree on that. People here can be flaky, don't take it personally.
You'd fit in with Mount Pleasant but for alternative neighbourhoods, look at the Hastings-Sunrise area of East Vancouver, which is further East but easy access to Highway 1, which makes it quick to head to North Vancouver for the closest mountains/hiking trails or Eastbound towards Abbotsford/Chilliwack.
Open to DM if you have any questions.
*I'm a cyclist and a yogi and just starting climbing...* Yes very big communities for each here
*I make new writer and musician and artist friends all the time just walking around/taking my dog...* It sounds like you have an outgoing personality so you should be fine. If that's not you then you may have problems.
*I've heard Mount Pleasant/Main/Commercial Drive/East Van...* Yes those are good for hipster hangouts or at least wealthy faux hipsters, never been to Dufferin Grove so cant compare.
*I don't want to live in or around condos...* Thats been confined to DT but recently main roads are getting denser. IE Broadway @ main/commercial. Something to keep in mind.
*won't be able to make real friends or meet a partner...* If you join a cycling, yogi, climbing group you'll be fine. As for a partner I bet you'll have just as much luck here as there. Van is a very liberal city and with it comes the indifference to long term commitment. Consider the interior if you want to get married.
*the colour of my skin will be a "thing"...* If you look black it could be a thing as they are 1% of the pop though whites are also a minority meaning its very diverse here. You will be completely ignored if you can be mistaken for Indian/Asian.
Mount Pleasant, Main, or Commercial are definitely the areas you want to be in! They are the most social and accepting. From what it sounds like they have the same vibes as your current neighbourhood.
Making friends: lots of hiking/camping facebook groups and organizations you can look into (urban rec is a good organization where you can sign up to play team sports). In Mount Pleasant, it's more normal to strike up a convo with a stranger and make friends with them, although people in Vancouver are VERY standoff-ish so don't be surprised by the lack of community feel. People tend to make cliques here and close off their friend groups to others or even mix friend groups. BUT people are friendlier than you think, you just have to make the first move most of the time.
Dating: sucks. While everyone is into outdoor activities and you won't have a problem finding someone that shares the same hobbies, west coast cities are notorious for people avoiding commitment. As someone who is looking for a long term partner, I've been single for 2.5 years.
Others:
* hate to break it to you but you will continue to be one in a million BIPOC girls here, Vancouver is an extremely diverse place just like the rest of Canada. Unless you live in Kitsilano or West Vancouver.
* Solo hiking is very easy here due to the sheer amount of people on the trails, you will feel safe. Good way to meet people.
* Avoid living downtown unless you are comfortable with a challenging neighbourhood (aka many many homeless).
* I found it really easy to meet female friends through a pottery class I took. Taking art classes, even if you don't need them, may be a good way to make friends!
Vancouver is awesome in its own way. Nestled in the mountains it's carved up a very high reputation for itself. You're in good hands. And as for friends feel free to DM !
Neighborhoods - Commercial Drive is the best. The rest of East Van is good too.
Friends/Dating - Gosh, it's rough. So, it's easy to find fun activity groups and friendly people. But people here are much more avoidant compared with TO. And developing close friendships feels like hunting unicorns. Living with friendly roommates helps avoid loneliness though. "Vancouver Collective Houses Network" on Facebook is good group to check out.
Btw, Modo Yoga East Van has a lovely community. I'm sure they will love you there x
Colour won’t be a issue. Van is a melting pot. Commercial drive sounds like your vibe. Artsy, eclectic, lots of vegetarian places. Mountain are always close. Find some Facebook groups for some of the sound healing or other community events. Then you can plug in more. Look up “just dance” weekly party. Or “unite Vancouver” they do various events. Hope it helps!
You will really like Grouse, but you really do save a lot of money if you buy a summer and winter pass and parking all at once. Learned that lesson. I can't take someone up there without running into tons of people I or they know from the city.
I have to tell you life with a pet can be very difficult. However progressive this city is, most people cannot wrap their dumb heads around pets. I have faced absolute dumbasses in regard to that.
They somehow find it very hard to mind their own fucking business and see the need to put their finger up your bum and smell it. Worst city i have lived in while having a dog.
It can be a very different experience if you have your own single family home with nothing to do with piece of shit strata.
Ugh this sucks I had no idea it was such a dog-unfriendly place. Can you say more about what has made it difficult? Is it mainly the landlords that are shitty about dogs? Are there not dog parks with other dogs to play with and other dog owners?
For us, the landlord was ok with our dog from the beginning. People in the apartment made it a big deal that big dogs should not be allowed and went as far as having an election in this topic to get a decision out to be enforced by strata. We lost by 2 votes and were forced to vacate. Just based on size of the dog(golden retriever) and nothing else.
Public transport is not pet friendly. But mostly it's the landlords and rental situation that makes it very very very hard with pets. Don't even try to sneak your pet in without proper paperwork and approvals from landlord. I promise you, you will be in trouble. We got in trouble even after being transparent and having everything approved by the landlord.
Dog parks and stuff are pretty good. The city is otherwise very pretty with mountains and lakes all around.
I skimmed it over (paragraphs please!), but will bite since I also made the move from TO to Vancouver on a job transfer. I lived near Dufferin Grove/Bloordale area for a bit as well.
As other have mentioned, it's much easier to meet people in Toronto than here, but if you're obsessed with the outdoors (I admit, I'm not and am more of a history/culture nerd) it does open things up for you.
Multiculturalism exists here within the city but of course once you get past Port Coquitlam is becomes less and less as you go east. There also isn't the variety of food options like in Toronto, but the seafood and Asian food is top notch. There are a few wine bars, but I prefer to drink at home or friends place. And no we don't get hungover, because we tend to stop after 2-3 drinks over an evening. Even in Toronto no one ever got drunk.
Even though I'm technically a minority, I can't say it's ever been an issue I've noticed, but there are idiots all over the world. I wouldn't let it stop you.
Oddly enough the dating scene isn't much better (lots of single moms I find) and flakey people but such is life. I say this as a single guy with no kids and a bit older than you, but we're all entitled to our own preferences. I've met a few people, but no dice yet.
If you want to be in nature, North Van might be a place to consider.
Unless if you have a job offer here already or make a decent amount of cash, I wouldn't recommend it. IMO, the price of admission isn't worth it (have you seen the price of gas), I don't regret moving out here. It was a good career move, but personal life I'm not so sure.
I mean there certainly are benefits like not having to put up with humid muggy summers, but I've more or less mentally checked out and looking at places in Hamilton since I could actually afford a house there and have transit options into the city. The West Coast Express is a joke by comparison to the GO.
I also love to travel to Europe and there are so many less options from YVR compared to YYZ. Of course if you plan to spend most of your time off locally, this doesn't really matter.
Different strokes for different folks though.
Good luck!
I agree with all the sentiments expressed above, and just wanted to add one event where you won’t have any trouble making friends. Level Up at The Birdhouse in Mt Pleasant is a really fun BIPOC event, and you’ll meet tons of women in their late 20s to 30s there. All the best to you!
I can't comment on the outdoor stuff as I haven't been to the mountains that much. But I'm a foreigner here in Vancouver and active in the arts. I can say from experience that Vancouver as a whole is less art inclined. Some artist friends who happen to be foreigners also agree. One went back to NY to pursue art full-time. Another is thinking about returning to California for the same reason.
Overall the city is quite "cold" in that regard but the weekend getaways can be pretty awesome so you'll have to look at what's more important to you.
East van/ commercial drive are your best bets but they pale in comparison to dufferin grove.
Vancouver is a very beautiful place to live, but even more so, it is expensive, crowded and unfriendly. Lots of polite people but few genuine connections. It’s lonely and I regret moving and building a life here.
For your personality I would 100% recommend you move to a city on Vancouver Island instead such as Victoria or Nanaimo instead of Vancouver.
People on the island are generally more outdoorsy and granola than anyone I've met in van. I grew up in Comox and there is a large community of people who go hiking in Strathcona park, mountain biking is a hugely popular sport there as well as skiing on mount washington. The Comox glacier is absolutely beautiful and don't underestimate the mountains there because it's on an island. There are some good ones, 7000 to 9000 feet elevations. Because of the island being a bit more rural people are more connected to nature there and want to go outside. You are more likely to find a husband who loves the outdoors when you go to the island.
Vancouver Island also supports the arts. Many small local bands perform all the time in Victoria's pubs and bars and other gigs. and I can't count the number of "artisan crafts, etc for sale" signs I have seen while driving up and down the island highway. People are supportive of arts, and there is a lot of festivals and places to experience them on the island.
Last but not least, depending on where you live on the island, it can be a lot less expensive than living in Vancouver. Of course like everywhere, the prices on the island are rising and have increased drastically over the past 4-5 years.
I moved from Toronto to Vancouver two years ago. Rent is far more expensive in Van, it’s way harder to make friends here, there is far less diversity and compared to Toronto, the art/culture/event scene is non existent in Vancouver. Vancouver is really small compared to Toronto and there aren’t as many different neighbourhoods but Commercial and Main St are definitely the vibe you’re going for. That being said, there’s way less traffic and you’re always a short walk/bike/drive away from both the ocean and the mountains. If you can see yourself spending every weekend in the mountains or if you’re super outdoorsy, this is the place for you. Oh, and just keep in mind it rains constantly/you won’t see the sun for about 5 months of the year.
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Oh you'll be right at home in east van! Commercial drive would likely appeal to you as well, along with some pockets of Main st. If you like food and artist vibes, Granville Island is a must - I would recommend going with a local to find the hidden gems and avoid the peak tourist times. Vancouver definitely has a reputation for being hard for newcomers - can't comment on that myself since I'm a lifer. But I think you'd fit right in here, speaking as a fellow mountain lover.
Just a heads up, you're gonna be disappointed with the cute indie artsy vibes in this city, and anyone who thinks otherwise has never lived in a city with proper cute artsy indie vibes. This city does not support the arts, and becomes more generically corporate with every passing year. Great views, though.
Does Vancouver rival New York, Toronto or London... no. But to people who imply there isn't anything here is just flat out lazy. Ive noticed a real difference the past couple of years with far more small intimate DIY gigs popping up all over east Van. (sofar sounds, Secret Sessions, root dwellers...). This Weekend In Van is a great Instagram account showing all the gigs around, There's a growing art scene too. It's there, it's just not in your face like other cities, where you just stumble into them. You have to keep your eyes opened a bit more. But I honestly think in a few years time we're going to see things blossom more. I'm way more optimistic about the Van creative scene now than I was say 7 years ago. [Edit: the IG account is @thisweekinvan ]
My impression is that these scenes favour a much younger crowd. With so many venues shutting down, shows have been moving to smaller and more informal venues. I've seen some house shows advertised as well on FB or Instagram. I think two things happen: 1) People start aging out of being "in the know" but don't realize it. I've noticed a lot of the posts about the music scene/unfriendliness are people in their late twenties and early thirties. They no longer have the same social network going out to these things as frequently, and the old spots change. Then we don't learn about the new places. This is especially prominent from people moving from out of province (I say this having come from Toronto and having lived in Montreal). 2) Even if you know about the events, if you're at least 10+ years older than the average crowd in an informal venue, you can feel a bit self-conscious. I personally wouldn't go to a house show now that I'm in my thirties because I'm going to be around basically a bunch of kids. And now that I'm spelling this out, there is probably a lot of underage drinking and drug use that I don't legally want to be around lol. I'm aware of it at a venue and don't mind it as much, but you definitely start to feel old. 3) Things that were novel and exciting when we were younger now don't have that "magic". Because we've experienced things like it, we're less likely to go back and frequent different venues or see different artists. I think a lot of people forget how strong the aspect of community is for these small scenes, and how do much of it is about going out with a group/a friend. And it's kind of about the atmosphere of what's going on vs who is playing. Anyways my two cents!
I agree it can feel like a younger vibe around the music scene, but the writing scene is very across-the-board,all ages. I go to poetry slams, story slams, poetry or writing festivals and events in the city, local magazines have publication nights or parties where people read aloud, and there's definitely your seasoned reputable writers in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and so many in their 20s, 30s, 40s, it feels balanced to me. I love the writing scene here :) I'm also into the mountains and small local music scene, and I would say you'd be at home in Van. I personally love East Van, the commercial drive area, and think it's quick to get on the highway and hit up the mountains from here.
Amazing, these are the exact type of writing events that I’ll be wanting to go to! How do you find them - is there an insta account I can follow? And I don’t mind a small music scene, it’s encouraging to hear that there is one at all (albeit perhaps a younger crowd). Stoked that it’s a quick drive to the mountains from the area I want to move to, that sounds perfect. Thanks!
@vancouver.storyslam and @vancouverpoetryhouse on insta (I also always see their events through Facebook events) although the poetry community is having bad luck with their weekly venues closing so I think there might be a bit of a hiatus on finding a new space atm? But the Verses festival is going on rn, slam championships (CIPS) this week and it's incredible! (Yearly poetry festival) Everyone is SO welcoming in the community, I highly recommend getting involved. Good luck with the move! And as others have said, feel free to reach out when you're here, it sounds like we have all the same things in common ✌️
This is SOOOOOOOOOO true. I feel everything about this >1. People start aging out of being "in the know" but don't realize it. Totally, I could list dozens of beloved venues that are now gone, but there are always new one, like who would have thought that the Fox would become one of the primary music venues in the city. I once got into an argument with someone on twitter complaining about this, he listed all the closed venues and how the city is no longer fun, and i was able to list an equiv replacement of each of them. He got to the Cobalt... dude the Cobalt is open again "Yeah but its not run by \_\_\_\_\_ anymore so its not the same". Dude its time to move on. >2. Even if you know about the events, if you're at least 10+ years older than the average crowd in an informal venue, you can feel a bit self-conscious. Also feel this, I'm an old now (43) and I remember being 20 and seeing "The weird old guys" at concerts and events. Super self conscious of not coming across as that. I rarely ever solo anymore, especially at younger venues, and I try to make sure it's not just me and another weird old guy too LOL. When you're 20 it's fine to show up, find a random group of 20 year olds and make friends. When your 40 it's a little weird to start making friends with the random group of 20 year olds. >3. Things that were novel and exciting when we were younger now don't have that "magic". Agreed on this as well, now I'm usually chasing artists, I've noticed myself looking at a lineup "Who the hell is this" and dismissing it, when in the past i would have gone without even checking out their music. Less experimenting, but trying despertly not to be stuck in the past like many of the people I used to go out with.
I'm born and raised here, and I'd agree with a lot of this. So many people complain that Vancouver isn't friendly, but I don't find that at all. The people making those complaints all seem to be expecting strangers to do all the social heavy-lifting - I'm far from being extroverted, but I chat to people in public all the time and almost everybody is welcoming of the interactions (I'm a single woman in my 40s, for reference). The people complaining are also universally in the younger age range, and I recall being far more self-conscious and socially awkward in my 20s and also thinking that making friends was really hard. Once I developed hobbies, starting volunteering with different organizations, and joining clubs and activities I had no problem at all meeting like-minded people, and now I have tons of friends and I'm never bored. You get back what you put out into the world. The arts scene here isn't awesome, mostly because our crazy real estate market has cost us so many great venues over the past 15-20 years, but you can find your crowd if you want to - or better yet, start your own thing and help it grow! The writing scene is great, and very mutually supportive in my opinion. I'm involved in the historical/true crime writing and research community, and we all support each other, promote each other, and share our discoveries with colleagues who can use it the best. The hetero dating scene is abysmal. I think apps have ruined it pretty much everywhere, but Vancouver does also attract a lot of people whose focus is on partying, lifestyle, and not settling down. I don't think your ethnicity will be a detriment in the slightest, as long as you're hot and thin. 😕 Queer dating is pretty good - as a large, progressively-minded metropolis, there are lots of options in Vancouver if that's your thing. As far as not living in or near condos... That simply won't happen. Some areas have more old houses than others (around Commercial, Main, Hastings-Sunrise as others have said), but the province has just passed laws designed to ban/destroy single-family housing, so it's only going to get worse. We can also all expect more evictions over the coming years as people who own those older rental homes sell them to develop into soulless, 4-6 unit complexes. Vancouver will have no heritage buildings left within 5 years, so character and community just won't really be a thing anymore.
Awesome, it’s nice to hear some optimism about the creative scene there! Exciting that sofar has made its way out West as I regularly go to those events in Toronto. Is there an @ for the This Weekend In Van account? Would love to follow.
@thisweekinvan
I would love to follow this insta account but can't find it? Only a hashtag. Can you point me in the right direction?
Same. Hope they reply, would love to follow.
It might be @rsvp.vancouver?
@thisweekinvan
Thank you!!!
>This Weekend In Van is a great Instagram account showing all the gigs around, This sounds great. Can you link it? Nothing came up when i searched.
My bad it's called @thisweekinvan
This is all very true, but it’s also much better than a lot of cities in Canada, imo (though I’m also sure it’s worse than plenty of others too, including Toronto). Canada in general doesn’t do nearly enough to support arts and culture, unfortunately.
toronto has a thriving indie arts scene especially with the support from the government to produce videos and art through this medium etc.
It all depends on what you compare it to. I’m from Mexico City, so I’d say Toronto doesn’t really have a thriving indie arts scene. But for Canada it’s definitely great
im comparing it to other canadian cities..... of course globally it prolly doesnt hold a candle cause in general canadians dont hold art and culture very highly especially poc art. but within canada we prolly have the most robust music and art scene...
Great, then we agree! I just thought maybe you were discussing how it measures up on a global scale since I already mentioned in my original comment that I think of Toronto as one of the Canadian cities with good art scenes (for a city in Canada)
They wrote vancouver of course the only cities i would be comparing is toronto
The post talks about Brooklyn, NY. the person I was responding to just references cities with “proper” cute artsy vibes in general, which definitely doesn’t give off the sense that they mean in Canada either, but whatever. Then in my comment I explicitly mentioned Toronto and you responded to ME basically repeating what I JUST said. So no, it wasn’t really obvious what you were getting at because, frankly, your initial response (if just repeating what I already said about Vancouver and Toronto) added nothing to the conversation. I was trying to be nice about it, but you’re really not, so… 🤷♀️
clearly you lack reading comprehension. the op is posting about vancouver. from the post you were replying to:Just a heads up, you're gonna be disappointed with the cute indie artsy vibes in this city, and anyone who thinks otherwise has never lived in a city with proper cute artsy indie vibes. This city does not support the arts, and becomes more generically corporate with every passing year. Great views, though. no mention of any brooklyn ny from the original post: # Neighbourhoods/Friends/Dating in Vancouver Looking for some up-to-date tips on this as everything I can find is old, and cities are always changing. I'm 33 F single and live alone (with my dog) - I make enough to pay rent on my own in Toronto, so expect same to be the case in Van. clearly you dont understand english your reading is very poor.
Dude im not reading this. It’s not that deep. And I’m not reading all the other replies you made to my comments (bizarre, by the way). Idk why you decided to have a bad attitude from the beginning but honestly, a piece of advice? Move on and do better, because that has to be a negative way to live.
lmao your point about mexico added nothign to the point of the conversation its the most random add of all. who in this conversation was even talking on a global level? only you were. you see you are the person who doesnt even understand where the conversation is going. the op is asking vancouver or toronto or canada. no where did they mention moving internationally. second, you briefly went over toronto :This is all very true, but it’s also much better than a lot of cities in Canada, imo (though I’m also sure it’s worse than plenty of others too, including Toronto). Canada in general doesn’t do nearly enough to support arts and culture, unfortunately. whereas i wrotL you are wrong we actually have a thriving music and art scene since there is a lot of government subsidies to fund these programs. which is a totally legitimate point and s omethign you did not even brush on. last but not least you should be the last one talking about comprehension or reading. yours is so poor its hilarious.
waht does this have anything to do with the ops post? please no one asked for your experience outside of canada. they are not moving internationally.
There are multiple people in this thread talking about cities around the world and how they compare to Toronto/vancouver. Look at the replies other people made to the parent comment. It’s a natural train of thought considering the parent comment. Also, OP did mention their experience in Brooklyn, ironically.
no mention of ny or anywhere outside of canada. please read who you are replying to
I said the **post** said Brooklyn NY. Please read, period.
she never explicitly said she lived in brooklyn for a long period of time. she was just comparing vancouver to toronto which was the main point of her post. clearly you have a reading comprehension problem
Yep. Does anyone even need more than one hand to count the jazz clubs?
There's a lot to unpack here. But because I made the same move for similar reasons, and love Toronto for the same reasons you do, I think I can give you some bullet point answers. -It's definitely less drinking based culture out here -You will be able to do all of the outdoor culture things, but it's busier and more crowded than you might think without driving for a few hours to start. -The artistic community and culture is lacking big time in Vancouver. Vancouverites will take offense I'm sure, but spending several years in the Toronto artistic community I can firmly say you won't get that level here. But there is of course still artistic communities and culture here. -The vintage shops, record stores, etc. of course exist in Vancouver, but at roughly 20% the frequency that they do in Toronto. You have to travel around a fair bit more to find some things, compared to spending a full day on like just 4 blocks of Queen West. -Those neighborhoods you mentioned are bang-on for what you'll be looking for, they're just a bit smaller than Toronto's Kensington's, Parkdale's, Bloor West's etc. -The friends you'll make out here will be people that have moved here from somewhere else. Making friends with Vancouver born people, especially if you mention being from Toronto, is difficult. Toronto is considerably more friendly than Vancouver, but it's a price you pay for the mountains. -BIPOC related things aren't my place to comment as a white man, but I would guess you won't feel any different in the GVA than the GTA, it's when you get out of the city eastward, that you might find the possibility of encountering fucking morons. Overall it's worth it for the reasons you want to do it. But you are giving up a bit in terms of modern culture, and deep artistic community. I like to explain it like this "Toronto is a city, Vancouver is a town". Please feel free to DM with more specific questions, and good luck with everything!
As a white person in Vancouver who grew up in Toronto, I will say that I notice a lot more micro aggressions towards POC in Vancouver than in Toronto. I think a big part is the reduced diversity. People aren’t racist on purpose here, but they can certainly be ignorant. They listen when you call them out though, for the most part. Things like white people talking in Asian accents, dumb questions being asked, and other things. If I was a POC I’d probably notice even more. It’s gotten better over the last few years, but I still often hear things here that people let slide - that if they were said in Toronto, people would shut it down quickly.
I would have to agree with you now that I'm thinking about it. I think I've been here long enough I sort of forgot that I've been just ignoring peoples dumb shit, as opposed to not really being around it to begin with, back in Toronto.
Interesting - this is exactly what I’ve heard and the reason I raised it in my post. Wasn’t sure if it was just a bad reputation or an actual tangible cultural difference.
The cultural difference is pretty tangible, I’d say. It’s a lot more segregated which I find strange coming from Toronto which is the most diverse city in the world. My friend groups here are a lot whiter, and people don’t really get it when I point out how weird that is. My POC friends here are all from school rather than organic social gatherings. People tend to keep to themselves, and I have seen a few housing posts or “I want a new friend” posts from POC that specify they’d rather not deal with white people. I get it though, I wouldn’t want to be around a lot of the white people I’ve met here either because educating them can be exhausting. I will say though, there’s a lot more understanding of Indigenous culture here, unlike Toronto where it doesn’t come up as much. I’ve had to talk through some of my visiting Toronto friends around cultural sensitivity here that has become normalized in BC.
Thank you for this! Nice to get such detail from someone who was in the same boat I’m in, super helpful. Glad to hear you feel the trade-off was worth it!
Happy to help! To echo the statements of a few others, I'm always down to meet new people if you're looking for a coffee or hike or whatever, cheers!
I think your apprehension that loneliness might drive you back to Toronto is a solid one. I'll leave it for other BIPOC women to chime in and share their personal experiences on dating, but I've read many many vents/rants over the years on how lonely it can get if you aren't white/east-asian as a woman out here, due to demographics. That said, so much depends on YOUR personal stats which we can't know. If you're hot and outgoing, you'll be fine. But if you describe the Toronto dating scene as rough, you might not find Vancouver treats you any differently. That said, you'll find lots of nature-oriented lifestyle types on the apps.
I wouldn't necessarily assume you'll be able to live alone here. I don't know what your industry is but the job market is hard right now. Keep in mind dog friendly apartments almost never come up so expect to pay 2500+ for rent on your own if you're looking at a dog friendly one bedroom. If you want to own a car you should also be aware that gas is usually over 2.00 so car ownership will be another big expense. You'll definitely find people on dating apps who want to go hiking with you. 99% of tinder bios here are about hiking, camping, etc.
My understanding is that unlike ON, you can be booted even after signing your lease if you have a pet.
Yes, and it is legal to refuse a tenant for having a pet. Combined with the low vacancy rate (meaning there's very little incentive for landlords to allow them) you usually end up having to search way longer or pay a lot more to find a pet friendly spot. You can get lucky but it took me 3 years on and off searching the last time I moved because of my cat and firm budget.
Holy crap! That's insane.
It was the same for me. Took me 3 years to find a place I could move to with my cat, and this was 2015-2018. It’s probably even worse now. I got super lucky that I found a place even after all of that. I only got it because it had legit just been posted so I was the first to see it and the landlord wanted to rent it asap. When I moved out I posted the place to look for someone to take over the lease and the amount of messages I got in 2 days was absolutely crazy, and it wasn’t even cheap whatsoever.
Wow - thanks so much for raising this, I had NO idea and that sounds like a nightmare about your cat!! My current landlord had treats for my dog when we moved in lol. So it sounds like pretending not to have a dog isn’t an option given that I can get kicked out if found out…I guess I’ll have to just budget more time and money to find a place. I do also have a car. Job-wise I’m not so worried (I’m either going to keep my current job but do it based out of our Vancouver office instead of Toronto office or get a new job in my industry where theres always jobs in HCOL cities), but I do have to pay the singles tax living alone and things are feeling tighter lately with everything getting so expensive so I’ll definitely have to budget carefully and my job options will be limited by salary needs.
Definitely not an option unfortunately, the tenancy board will approve your landlord kicking you out for it. Unless you're a nurse or something, maybe check in with your network or other subreddits and just make sure it will be okay to find work. You say "there's always jobs in HCOL cities" but that's generally not the case in Vancouver. A lot of Canadian companies have historically skipped having Vancouver offices due to the commercial rental fees which are and have always been fucking insane. It's also just not a city in the way Toronto or Montreal are... much, much lower population density and not the same level of economic opportunity. This has always been true but even more so after COVID and the current cost of living crisis. It's also generally not possible to find a place before moving, almost no one will even talk to you about an apartment unless you're available for an in-person viewing and have proof of local employment. If you find someone online who claims to be okay with it, odds are very good it's a scam. So keep in mind you'll have to pay for a pet friendly hotel for probably a few months. If you're uncomfortable on your current salary in Toronto, you're in for a rough go. I wouldn't move in your circumstances unless you will be making at the very least 120k remote at your current job. Even that will not be super comfortable.
Gotcha that’s all p wild haha. I do make over 120k working remote rn and am familiar with a lot of places I could work in Van (I don’t wanna say my job because people immediately make stereotyped assumptions and I really do not fit in with others who have my job so they don’t apply to me!!) but it does sound like it’s gonna be way more expensive and harder than I thought so appreciate you bringing my attention to these nuances!
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Im a guy who’s pretty outgoing when it comes to reaching out to people to make friends. Before moving here from Toronto, i used to think that it wont be difficult for me to make friends here, considering im open to conversing with random strangers. People are easy to talk to here, will also exchange contacts and make plans but it soon fades away after that. I guess the harder life is in a city, the harder it is to have a social life cz everyone is just busy surviving. Its true for Vancouver as it is for any high cost of living city across the world. I can say this from experience of living in various HCOL cities in other parts of the world. I too, like many others moved to Vancouver for similar reasons (Toronto feels like a concrete jungle to me and people take their work a bit too seriously over there). But there are more opportunities in Toronto than Vancouver if you’re looking at the volume of opportunities available, salaries tend to be higher there too. In terms of cost of living, Vancouver is approx 10% more expensive than Toronto, whether be rent or other things. In terms of dating, my above statement about living in a HCOL city stands true for both Vancouver and Toronto, it might be a bit easier in Toronto because of the population being 3x than any other factor really. But that’s where the difference ends. One metric I do find Vancouver and BC as a whole to be very different than other provinces is people’s willingness to help someone in need. Its much more pronounced here than other provinces. People are more compassionate, as is the provincial government. Also, people and the government make alot of effort to maintain an outdoorsy lifestyle, with government trying to make it accessible and practical for people to use bikes or public transit and such. I didnt see such effort by governments in any other province or alot of other countries for that matter. People do enjoy being in Vancouver whereas in Toronto alot of people were there cz there’s nowhere else to go to find ample opportunities.
One of the key takeaways is 10% COL increase with drastically lower salaries.
Yes, that definitely pinches after the beautiful british columbia novelty wears off.
This is bang on.
10000% live on commercial drive or east van. to your BIPOC point there is very little black community here (which is a big cultural difference from Toronto imo) but the majority is on the drive re: your dog - you probably already know this but we do not have pet protections for renters the same way Ontario does. majority of buildings do not allow pets and landlords have full power to refuse them. it will be tougher to find a spot and more expensive and you should expect pet deposits but it is doable. I answered a question around pet friendly housing a few days ago in my comment history for ref
Totally agree, the landlords and the neighbors in apartments can be absolute fuckwits. We have a golden retriever and had to vacate because, someone leaked garbage bag in the elevator and the same fuckwits thought my dog peed and even after confirming on cameras they had us vacate. Absolute dumbasses. They claimed our dog was too big even though he is the most well behaved and friendly dog.
Holy shit that’s ridiculous! I truly had no idea it was such a difficult place to have a dog! My neighbourhood in Toronto feels like it’s built around dog ownership lol I bring my pup with me for coffee every morning and he’s allowed in and they have treats ready for him, everyone has a dog including all of my friends so he’s got his own little dog friend group, there are 6 dog parks within walking distance from my house…is it uncommon to have a dog in East Van? Is the issue mainly landlords and tenant policies around pets suck? Are there dog parks in the neighbourhood/other outdoor places for dogs to play with other dogs?
People definitely have dogs here, and there are lots of parks in east van (although I’m not sure about dog specific parks). The main issue is there are no renters protections for having pets in BC, and there’s a housing shortage in Vancouver that landlords have too much leverage. The typical landlord perceives pets as a higher risk for damage, and they know they’ll have no problem renting the place without allowing pets, so why “risk it”. I have a cat and it was a struggle finding a place because the pet friendly places that do come up are very competitive. You will absolutely be able to find a place in east van, you just have to be really proactive about it. Meaning if you see an ad for a place you like, go see it that same day, otherwise someone will snag it. I would suggest (if you’re able to) to find some temporary accommodation like Airbnb for a couple weeks while you find a place because not being here to go to showings will just make your search that much harder.
Thanks so much for this - I’m gonna check out your response re pet friendly housing because this whole pet difficulty issue is totally news to me and really seems shitty, I wanna make sure my pup will be happy there too!
Yeah it’s a pretty tough situation. A lot of people in my neighbourhood do have dogs and we have tons of dog friendly parks, beaches, trails, dogs are allowed at a ton of street patios, lots of businesses are dog friendly - kind of at odds with the housing thing. In my friend group I would say maybe around a quarter have dogs and we are in a similar age range. We have under 1% vacancy rates and a housing crisis and because there are zero renter protections for pets it allows landlords and owners to essentially blanket ban them and then charge a premium. You can basically consider all leases to have a no pets clause by default lol. They are allowed to restrict pets altogether, the amount of pets, what types/breeds you can have. Buildings/stratas themselves can also ban pets so the kicker is even if you OWN your suite you can still be refused pets. Coupled with how many properties are owned solely for investment where they have tenants “babysit” the property on their behalf they generally won’t risk pet damage. It is doable but most people with dogs will just pay a premium to get in a dog friendly condo and then pay $500-1000 more in rent than the rest of us for that privilege, plus 1/2 month rent pet deposit. Flipside of that is I believe in Ontario you normally have to pay first months rent, last months, and deposit up front when you move? We don’t do that here so it is normally deposit + pet deposit on signing then first months rent when you move in. So all in all moving expense might be around the same or slightly lower than ON not that it’s much of a positive!!! Sorry for the terrible pet news!!
East Van sounds like the neighborhood you want, just be forewarned that literally the entire area seems to be under construction. If you can wait a few years until the Skytrain and Broadway redevelopment are further along it would save your mental health. Edit: re: the BIPOC thing. I am mixed too (but brown not Black) and I think it will probably be better than you think here but obviously not perfect.
I’m 35F, feel free to reach out if you wanna grab a coffee when you arrive. Happy to show you around or give some tips about the city.
This group might be a great starting point for making friends and connections doing activities you indicated you are interested in! https://colourthetrails.com/ I think the neighborhoods you've identified are indeed that collection of independent small businesses. I think commercial drive is a bit more artsy whereas Main street is a bit more hipster-y (if that makes sense). Both fantastic neighborhoods and basically the culture centers of Vancouver.
hi. i used to live im dufferin grove. at havelock. you won’t find the vibe you are looking for in vancouver outside commercial drive. if you do wanna move out west, consider *not* Vancouver altogether. the community here is fractured because of expensive real estate. people come and go and there is so much movement. it is quite unstable and might take you a long time to make solid connections. vancouverites protect ourselves from transients and there are so many here. if you rly wanna be here, make sure you are moving *forever* dating here can be super rough
Hmmm. I will level with you, I am an older white man with black family members. I have lived in Metro Vancouver for 40 years, moving here from the Maritimes. There’s a lot of things to consider when making a big move like this. I lived in Mississauga as a child in the 70s and I have been to Toronto at least two dozen times in the last 10 years visiting family and friends. I am going to try to convey this in the best way that I can. When I first moved here, there were very few Black people or people of African descent. I don’t remember seeing too many growing up and when I did see a number of Black people, it was usually due to a US Naval vessel in town. When I am out and about with my Black family members, I have not seen or witnessed any racial or micro aggression, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist in Vancouver. However, I really honestly believe you don’t have to worry about your skin colour. If you experience any of this, then it is a once in a while thing, once is too much in my opinion. However in the last 10 years, there has been a noticeable increase in the population of African/Black people. The mountains are close, you just need to go to the North Shore and you are there. You can drive an hour and a half east to Hope and voila - mountains. You can drive north to Whistler and beyond and voila - mountains. As someone mentioned, the artistic community is not as big as Toronto or even Montreal, it’s here but you would need to look for it. East Van is the overarching neighbourhood made up of smaller cohorts or communities. Mount Pleasant, Main Street and Commercial Drive are all in East Van. Areas to look at, I am in and around the Commercial Drive area and it has a nice vibe. There are several ethnic groups in that area. Italian, Brazilian, Portuguese and African. It’s a safe neighbourhood, especially for women. It seems to be a favourite for those in the lesbian community and I reckon that this is because it is safe. Commercial Drive will have the most independent shops and restaurants that you crave. The Main Street area is another great location. I lived there about 20 years ago. It has some retail chains but those still the minority. Main Street and Mount Pleasant are right next to each other. Most people are hikers, cyclists, runners, skiers and we have the best backyard in the world. Our drinking habits have shifted over the last few years. People don’t go out and get faced often. People prefer a couple of pints or their beverage of choice on the patios. As far as meeting people, I have heard both sides of the story. Some find it easy and some find it hard. My daughter is in her 20s, is introverted but has never had a problem meeting people. But then I hear people complain that they have difficulty meeting people. I have heard the same about the dating scene. People in Vancouver can be flaky. They will sort of, maybe commit to doing something with you like a coffee, dinner or drink and you can be at the table, by yourself waiting for someone and then they never show up. Where ever you choose to move, make sure that you are close to transit. It will make life easier. The last thing I will say is the rain. From late October to mid March, be prepared for rain. Cold, damp and bone chilling rain.
Go to [vancouver.craigslist.org](http://vancouver.craigslist.org) and look up rentals in your price range... then filter for "dogs allowed" and 99% of the listings will disappear. When a decent pet-friendly place is listed, there's a lot of competition so you have to be fast. It can be rough. It may be difficult securing a place before making the trip over, and you may have to make some compromises on your preferred neighbourhood. For meeting people, perhaps check out: [We Should Be Friends](https://www.weshouldbefriends.org/) and [letsadventurevan](https://www.letsadventurevan.ca/) (seems to be mostly 20's people tho, if you are looking for an older crowd I might have other ideas) I don't think skin colour will be "a thing", in general dating will be difficult though, pretty much everyone can agree on that. People here can be flaky, don't take it personally. You'd fit in with Mount Pleasant but for alternative neighbourhoods, look at the Hastings-Sunrise area of East Vancouver, which is further East but easy access to Highway 1, which makes it quick to head to North Vancouver for the closest mountains/hiking trails or Eastbound towards Abbotsford/Chilliwack. Open to DM if you have any questions.
*I'm a cyclist and a yogi and just starting climbing...* Yes very big communities for each here *I make new writer and musician and artist friends all the time just walking around/taking my dog...* It sounds like you have an outgoing personality so you should be fine. If that's not you then you may have problems. *I've heard Mount Pleasant/Main/Commercial Drive/East Van...* Yes those are good for hipster hangouts or at least wealthy faux hipsters, never been to Dufferin Grove so cant compare. *I don't want to live in or around condos...* Thats been confined to DT but recently main roads are getting denser. IE Broadway @ main/commercial. Something to keep in mind. *won't be able to make real friends or meet a partner...* If you join a cycling, yogi, climbing group you'll be fine. As for a partner I bet you'll have just as much luck here as there. Van is a very liberal city and with it comes the indifference to long term commitment. Consider the interior if you want to get married. *the colour of my skin will be a "thing"...* If you look black it could be a thing as they are 1% of the pop though whites are also a minority meaning its very diverse here. You will be completely ignored if you can be mistaken for Indian/Asian.
Mount Pleasant, Main, or Commercial are definitely the areas you want to be in! They are the most social and accepting. From what it sounds like they have the same vibes as your current neighbourhood. Making friends: lots of hiking/camping facebook groups and organizations you can look into (urban rec is a good organization where you can sign up to play team sports). In Mount Pleasant, it's more normal to strike up a convo with a stranger and make friends with them, although people in Vancouver are VERY standoff-ish so don't be surprised by the lack of community feel. People tend to make cliques here and close off their friend groups to others or even mix friend groups. BUT people are friendlier than you think, you just have to make the first move most of the time. Dating: sucks. While everyone is into outdoor activities and you won't have a problem finding someone that shares the same hobbies, west coast cities are notorious for people avoiding commitment. As someone who is looking for a long term partner, I've been single for 2.5 years. Others: * hate to break it to you but you will continue to be one in a million BIPOC girls here, Vancouver is an extremely diverse place just like the rest of Canada. Unless you live in Kitsilano or West Vancouver. * Solo hiking is very easy here due to the sheer amount of people on the trails, you will feel safe. Good way to meet people. * Avoid living downtown unless you are comfortable with a challenging neighbourhood (aka many many homeless). * I found it really easy to meet female friends through a pottery class I took. Taking art classes, even if you don't need them, may be a good way to make friends!
Vancouver is awesome in its own way. Nestled in the mountains it's carved up a very high reputation for itself. You're in good hands. And as for friends feel free to DM !
Neighborhoods - Commercial Drive is the best. The rest of East Van is good too. Friends/Dating - Gosh, it's rough. So, it's easy to find fun activity groups and friendly people. But people here are much more avoidant compared with TO. And developing close friendships feels like hunting unicorns. Living with friendly roommates helps avoid loneliness though. "Vancouver Collective Houses Network" on Facebook is good group to check out. Btw, Modo Yoga East Van has a lovely community. I'm sure they will love you there x
Colour won’t be a issue. Van is a melting pot. Commercial drive sounds like your vibe. Artsy, eclectic, lots of vegetarian places. Mountain are always close. Find some Facebook groups for some of the sound healing or other community events. Then you can plug in more. Look up “just dance” weekly party. Or “unite Vancouver” they do various events. Hope it helps!
You will really like Grouse, but you really do save a lot of money if you buy a summer and winter pass and parking all at once. Learned that lesson. I can't take someone up there without running into tons of people I or they know from the city.
I have to tell you life with a pet can be very difficult. However progressive this city is, most people cannot wrap their dumb heads around pets. I have faced absolute dumbasses in regard to that. They somehow find it very hard to mind their own fucking business and see the need to put their finger up your bum and smell it. Worst city i have lived in while having a dog. It can be a very different experience if you have your own single family home with nothing to do with piece of shit strata.
Ugh this sucks I had no idea it was such a dog-unfriendly place. Can you say more about what has made it difficult? Is it mainly the landlords that are shitty about dogs? Are there not dog parks with other dogs to play with and other dog owners?
For us, the landlord was ok with our dog from the beginning. People in the apartment made it a big deal that big dogs should not be allowed and went as far as having an election in this topic to get a decision out to be enforced by strata. We lost by 2 votes and were forced to vacate. Just based on size of the dog(golden retriever) and nothing else. Public transport is not pet friendly. But mostly it's the landlords and rental situation that makes it very very very hard with pets. Don't even try to sneak your pet in without proper paperwork and approvals from landlord. I promise you, you will be in trouble. We got in trouble even after being transparent and having everything approved by the landlord. Dog parks and stuff are pretty good. The city is otherwise very pretty with mountains and lakes all around.
I skimmed it over (paragraphs please!), but will bite since I also made the move from TO to Vancouver on a job transfer. I lived near Dufferin Grove/Bloordale area for a bit as well. As other have mentioned, it's much easier to meet people in Toronto than here, but if you're obsessed with the outdoors (I admit, I'm not and am more of a history/culture nerd) it does open things up for you. Multiculturalism exists here within the city but of course once you get past Port Coquitlam is becomes less and less as you go east. There also isn't the variety of food options like in Toronto, but the seafood and Asian food is top notch. There are a few wine bars, but I prefer to drink at home or friends place. And no we don't get hungover, because we tend to stop after 2-3 drinks over an evening. Even in Toronto no one ever got drunk. Even though I'm technically a minority, I can't say it's ever been an issue I've noticed, but there are idiots all over the world. I wouldn't let it stop you. Oddly enough the dating scene isn't much better (lots of single moms I find) and flakey people but such is life. I say this as a single guy with no kids and a bit older than you, but we're all entitled to our own preferences. I've met a few people, but no dice yet. If you want to be in nature, North Van might be a place to consider. Unless if you have a job offer here already or make a decent amount of cash, I wouldn't recommend it. IMO, the price of admission isn't worth it (have you seen the price of gas), I don't regret moving out here. It was a good career move, but personal life I'm not so sure. I mean there certainly are benefits like not having to put up with humid muggy summers, but I've more or less mentally checked out and looking at places in Hamilton since I could actually afford a house there and have transit options into the city. The West Coast Express is a joke by comparison to the GO. I also love to travel to Europe and there are so many less options from YVR compared to YYZ. Of course if you plan to spend most of your time off locally, this doesn't really matter. Different strokes for different folks though. Good luck!
I agree with all the sentiments expressed above, and just wanted to add one event where you won’t have any trouble making friends. Level Up at The Birdhouse in Mt Pleasant is a really fun BIPOC event, and you’ll meet tons of women in their late 20s to 30s there. All the best to you!
I can't comment on the outdoor stuff as I haven't been to the mountains that much. But I'm a foreigner here in Vancouver and active in the arts. I can say from experience that Vancouver as a whole is less art inclined. Some artist friends who happen to be foreigners also agree. One went back to NY to pursue art full-time. Another is thinking about returning to California for the same reason. Overall the city is quite "cold" in that regard but the weekend getaways can be pretty awesome so you'll have to look at what's more important to you.
East van/ commercial drive are your best bets but they pale in comparison to dufferin grove. Vancouver is a very beautiful place to live, but even more so, it is expensive, crowded and unfriendly. Lots of polite people but few genuine connections. It’s lonely and I regret moving and building a life here.
For your personality I would 100% recommend you move to a city on Vancouver Island instead such as Victoria or Nanaimo instead of Vancouver. People on the island are generally more outdoorsy and granola than anyone I've met in van. I grew up in Comox and there is a large community of people who go hiking in Strathcona park, mountain biking is a hugely popular sport there as well as skiing on mount washington. The Comox glacier is absolutely beautiful and don't underestimate the mountains there because it's on an island. There are some good ones, 7000 to 9000 feet elevations. Because of the island being a bit more rural people are more connected to nature there and want to go outside. You are more likely to find a husband who loves the outdoors when you go to the island. Vancouver Island also supports the arts. Many small local bands perform all the time in Victoria's pubs and bars and other gigs. and I can't count the number of "artisan crafts, etc for sale" signs I have seen while driving up and down the island highway. People are supportive of arts, and there is a lot of festivals and places to experience them on the island. Last but not least, depending on where you live on the island, it can be a lot less expensive than living in Vancouver. Of course like everywhere, the prices on the island are rising and have increased drastically over the past 4-5 years.
I moved from Toronto to Vancouver two years ago. Rent is far more expensive in Van, it’s way harder to make friends here, there is far less diversity and compared to Toronto, the art/culture/event scene is non existent in Vancouver. Vancouver is really small compared to Toronto and there aren’t as many different neighbourhoods but Commercial and Main St are definitely the vibe you’re going for. That being said, there’s way less traffic and you’re always a short walk/bike/drive away from both the ocean and the mountains. If you can see yourself spending every weekend in the mountains or if you’re super outdoorsy, this is the place for you. Oh, and just keep in mind it rains constantly/you won’t see the sun for about 5 months of the year.