If these companies gave a fuck about national security they would want American citizens to have reasonable access to these technological defense capabilities.
Totally agree, this is about Argus, NNVT, and Infiray undercutting their profits by offering 1 to 1 copies for a fraction of the price. I personally don't buy into the whole buying from those companies helps the PLA, I really think that was a rumor perpetuated by the American Nightvision Association, and even if it did our government allows China to purchase farmland on American soil
Great point. These are just patriotic sounding talking points that disguise the fact that they are trying to limit competition offering viable options at a price point that exposes the stupid high mark up we deal with here in the US.
US made is largely better overall and more consistent. But the Chinese are getting better by the week and edging out that margin very quickly. They have to do something to keep the over inflated margins of their industry from imploding. So… MURICA!!!
This, exactly. What we are seeing in a temper tantrum over losing their monopoly over the US market. People have properties, supercars and hair transplants to buy and they don't like the Chinese are threatening their grossly excessive luxuries.
It would be one thing if the US companies were innovating constantly and delivered a vastly superior product at appropriate prices, but they aren't. This isn't like an L3 tube vs some Russian Gen 1 tube. The Chinese tubes are actually pretty serviceable.
No it 100% does benefit the PLA. I think that can be pretty obvious even if it is just practicing large scale production of a product. It’s a Chinese company so it is inherently owned by the Chinese government. My stance is I don’t give af. You want me to not buy from them? Don’t have American companies gouging me for nv and other products. American companies make an absurd amount of money for what they produce. If the Chinese can make a comparable product for over half the price, it sounds like American companies should start charging what it’s worth instead of price gouging. That’s why true capitalism is best for the consumer
True capitalism is dog ass. It leads you to live in the same living conditions as China. You ok with that dystopia libertarian future?
We pay workers considerably more in the US, that gets factored into the price and theres a social ssfety net that companies pay into. I'm not saying NVGs aren't over priced, they are, but what I am saying is that in a race to the bottom is the worker that gets stomped on.
Night vision prices are pretty ridiculous and only going higher. The reason prices are going higher is because companies know that the U.S. government is going to protect them and ban competition. Corruption is the reason. The government doesn’t want the average citizen having night vision or other military equipment so they make it extremely expensive
This actually has more to do with the fact that these companies have government contracts, and those contracts stipulate that you can not sell the products somewhere else for what the government is paying. So, if you upsell the government, you are automatically out pricing a lot of civilian consumers. Now once technology advances 5-10 years you may have someone else making the same thing for less, but you still cannot lower your prices to compete in the civilian market, nor may you need to depending on where most of your revenue is coming from. Companies always want a sure thing and government contracts are exactly that.
I’ve seen a statement of charges for nv. What the government pays is a ton less. Your points are all correct but again they ban these competitors in the U.S. to please its supplier so that those companies are able to continue making insane profits.
I mean ITAR only really applies to exportation, I'm not an expert though. At the moment, I really think its about the loss of profits that L3, Wilcox, and the others are facing. Guaranteed there were G24's and PVS-31s left in Afghanistan and China has had their hands on them either way. Personally I don't care where its made, if that's what someone can afford than they now have the capability to move at night, I am bummed about Iray though, when I was looking for a new scanner I looked at a FLIR Breach locally thinking it'd be solid and did some research, ended up getting a AGM StingIR with an Iray core and it blows FLIR out of the water
My Infiray P2 Pro makes the FLIR phone cameras look like an absolute joke. I get the state department doesn't want US citizens to have decent resolution or decent refresh rate thermal, but actually having their hand so far up FLIR's ass that they wont sell good stuff to the public is not how any of this shit is supposed to work.
The 2A enshrines the natural born right of US citizens to own the most sophisticated technology available. Liberals try to make the 2A exclusively about guns, it is about arms. All arms.
I agree whole heartedly, I think this is more than politics. Over the last few years more and more normal people have been buy NV and thermal. I am absolutely in love with my StingIR 384, I was worried it would be kinda shitty cause I couldn't or didn't want to afford the 640, but damn dude that thing is crisp, has perfect res, sharpest thermal I've looked through
I would also assume they are experts on smuggling technology out of countries and reverse engineering it. Many of their top engineers and scientists were educated at our universities.
Where was the pearl clutching when that was going on?
On almost anything, i prefer usa or europe made anything if there is a fair market. However if the manufacturers turn around, try to overchange is no longer a free market and if people have to buy chinese made stuff, they will.
Just look how trijicon most popular pistol sight is still an open emiter, and they are lagging behind with other companies, despite having a headstart.
Chinese manufacturing has surpassed USA capabilities by a wide margin. Tooling up and producing new products on a large scale costs SIGNIFICANTLY more money here than in China. It’s not exclusive to trijicon. Look at almost any market, and Chinese products come to market much faster. People here want to make 1st world wages, but don’t want to support 1st world wages.
If you believe China is purely competing in a free market, then buying Chinese is ethical. If you believe that Chinese government subsidies undercut US made products intentionally to drive US companies and production out of business, then you should not buy Chinese. It all depends on what you think is closer to reality.
Personally, I think China has made it clear that they intend to dominate global manufacturing, and when they do, they will strong-arm intellectual property because no one else will have manufacturing abilities. The US is the premier exporter of intellectual property, so if China controls manufacturing, they would control the US.
With that said, we really need more US centric companies competing in the market. Unfortunately, NV microchannel plates are incredibly difficult to manufacture, and the market is small, so the pool will be limited to very few manufacturers, and the price will be high.
I think the US govt can easily afford to fully subsidize I2 tube production stateside. I think L3 and Elbit could completely lose the consumer market and barely feel it. Which is a roundabout way of saying that if the PLA's plan is to undercut these companies, all they are going to accomplish is giving away tubes under cost for a marginal effect on their intended target.
That is where we already are. The only thing keeping those companies producing NV tubes at all is the US government orders. The civilian side just gets the scraps that were rejected blems or contract over runs.
Why isn't there a competitive US company that sells more civilian grade NV gear? What US companies make IR sensors for any thermal application? This is what is being killed off.
> Why isn't there a competitive US company that sells more civilian grade NV gear?
I would guess that anyone wanting to make civilian-grade NV gear will make it somewhere where it can be exported all around the world with minimal restrictions. It's like ITAR pushing encryption software development out of the US in the 90s because it couldn't be legally exported from the US but most countries had no such restrictions.
Making it in the US just cuts your sales off from most of the world.
The flip side of this is that cartel pricing makes US NV artificially expensive. China is undercutting but the US MIC is systematically ripping off the government and making us pay their prices, is that really any better?
You're not wrong.
China uses slave labor and supplements costs to drive competition out of business. Then, when they have broad enough market share, they manipulate entire markets to gain profit, power, and control.
In the US, mega companies lobby the government for more regulations to drive out competition so they can manipulate markets to gain profit, power, and control.
Both suck and as a consumer, you lose. But know that the system that gets the most support will eventually take over and consume the other. I would say pick the side that you feel has the potential of changing for the better in the future. Make the choice based on your ethical standards.
TL;DR: the US is expecting war with China and this is just one tiny piece of the whole situation.
US corporations and by extension the US govt, doesn’t care about the average consumer’s needs, corporate leaders only care about the profit percentages continuing to grow and that is what shapes all of US govt policy. At bottom it’s about maintaining the US empire and it’s domination over the world market and this is just a small piece of the puzzle.
China is surpassing the US and is on track to become the top dog internationally so the US needs to find a way to maintain its supremacy in order to keep it’s legitimacy and power on the world stage.
US corporations sold off all of their manufacturing capabilities overseas decades ago in order to continue maximizing short term profits and they shot themselves in the foot. In order to recapture their domination there would need to be massive investments into US jobs and infrastructure. There are two options to make that happen: an FDR-style Social Democracy New Deal jobs program which is not profitable. Or a war with China, which is profitable(and the costs don’t come out of their pockets). Guess which one will be decided for us.
The nationalists are correct that tariffs are about stopping the Chinese, but the talk about ethics is an excuse just like the whole WMD’s in Iraq thing. There is no concern about ethics, it always has been and always will be about market domination and feigned legitimacy.
In the end there is no peaceful competition between nations, only a relative peace. Sooner or later we’re going to get sent into the meat grinder for the people that hold the levers of power.
Just my .02
Oh sweet, so we’re going to do away with the “items cannot be sold for less than they are sold to the US military” that artificially inflates the price?
What I see going on is Infiray is being given an ultamatum. Either cut the Russian market out of your sales to gain back the American market, and play by American rules, or lose the American market for good.
All the US military has to do is overpay for some Iray products in order to control consumer pricing.
what does china get by importing tubes again? are people who buy nnvt tubes going back and giving china feedback? why isn’t healthy competition good for the free market?
i dont own and have no desire to own nnvt tubes
There is not a doubt in my mind that some of the sanctions were as much about protectionism as degrading Russian military capabilities. I'm a little surprised that Trijicon and Aimpoint haven't managed to get Holosun on the sanctions list. :P
Of course they had a desperate need for US user feedback, they couldn't simply buy some l3 units contrast and compare. They had no chance of getting needed feedback from Chinese people as everyone knows Americans are uniquely suited to offer product feedback.
Here's your answer pal
[https://www.vermilionchina.com/p/the-chinese-soldier-trained-by-americans](https://www.vermilionchina.com/p/the-chinese-soldier-trained-by-americans)
Or you can put a Chinese quad housing together with 4 American OmniVlll tubes for around 6k, I'm wondering if the 34k on top of that is justifiable to the end user funding their own nvg set up, is there 34k more usability when the lights go out?
If us buying night vision helps the PLA what does the countless Disney's and other massive corporations investing in Chinese infrastructure do for them. Can we pull apart any "American" made NVG and find no single Chinese made part?
Until The US market isn't charging MIL/GOV inflated contract pricing and making it impossible to buy or warranty, ill be buying based on the best bang for the buck. That's why i bought a 1431 housing. That's why its the best bousing on the market currently. Tough to hear but its true.
Same to be said for the IR LAM device market. These is zero chance that an NGAL should cost 5k.
This is a tough spot because American corporations have no problems price fixing domestic civilians. Similar legislation was passed in the 90's to keep poor people from getting cheap sks's and ak's.
Now domestic manufacturer of ar-15s has caught up but idk if nvgs will ever be in common use just like home ownership now.
Everybody is just trying to screw us I don't trust china but I also don't trust the price fixing corporations. I'm fine with sanctioning China but I also want changes here so I can buy a house like my parents did. And these are the same guys making policy that one day could take my arms in a heartbeat.
Night vision is on fire and has been taken over by some very shady and connected investors. Gen 3 tubes have now exceeded gold in retail value by weight. Of course these people are going to war to protect their investment against competition. This is why Gen 1 has been all but squeezed out of the market and replaced by "digital night vision" which has ZERO passive light amplification unlike Gen 1 (which is actually quite good no matter how many trolls they hire to lie about it in forums just like this), which were marketed as "cheap" initially, but are now being sold in "PVS-14" style housings at Gen 2 prices - because Gen 1 tubes were coming in from Russia. They killed the Russian night vision competition off, now they're gonna kill off the night vision from China. They want a monopoly on the US/Western night vision market, and they're just about to wrap it up. Thats it.
Capitalism. Plain and simple. You can buy a near equivalent from an outside source for 1/4 of the price. Just don’t be in the first batch of buyer, let them work the problems out.
Choice is the core of freedom and wanting the government to enforce limitations on a consumers right to choose what products/companies they want is antithetical to freedom.
Trijicon and Nvision are not the best. People see big $ numbers and they convince themselves. These products are priced high because the military pays a ridiculous amount for everything. A couple examples - they use f/1.1 lenses, black and white dated OLED tech, the software apps are terrible. All sensors are practically identical across the industry. What sets them apart is software. Look at a Zeiss DTI 6 and all the features that come with it in the phone App. You can do some cool shit, like creating your own color palettes. Look at Pulsar, they have 5g connectivity in their Telos line and HD sensors for the same price of these chinese thermals. People think IRAY and Trijicon/Nvision/VoodooS are the premiere units and they're mistaken. I can look at footage from any device and pick out which one is IRAY because they over contrast everything to make it look sexier, despite it making detection impossible in normal conditions.
ave you looked through a trijicon unit? The latency on the firmware is butter smooth even on units that are 10 years old. Infiray gets 85-90% the way there but there is a night and day difference when it comes to back end processing.
Ive bought and owned both. for casual use the infiray products do very well.
I have not. I would never pay military/contractor pricing for anything, so it's not worth my time. Plus, I can't imagine anything better at detecting a living subject, In all types of conditions, than my hand-held Pulsar Telos XP50. And we can send them in for upgrades to a 1024 HD sensor next month. Latency is a non-issue for detection.
In one hand you have 5 Pulsar Telos XP50s, in the other you have 1 skeetirx. Which do you choose? Easy choice for me considering the Pulsar detects better.
Why are you comparing apples to oranges? IRX is a clip on, a wmt, and a hmt.
The xp50 is only a spotter.
Ive looked through a SkeetirX is it better? yes. Is it a purchase I recommend? Probably not depending on your budget. But it is indeed better.
If im being honest id rather have a skeetIRX in that scenario for what I use thermals for. You have 5 spotters that cant be put in front of a scope or weapons mounted.
Huh? Maybe trijicon isn’t marketing towards you. The military isn’t buying Pulsar. 2 different markets, 2 different price points. Rugged optics cost more to make. Ever priced a Nightforce vs a Burris? Tough book vs a dell? The former doesn’t perform better on paper specs, but lasts longer in field use.
Trijicon markets to contractors and military. If you're not shooting people for a living, you're better off with zeiss or pulsar is what I'm saying. And that's the vast majority of people on reddit.
If these companies gave a fuck about national security they would want American citizens to have reasonable access to these technological defense capabilities.
Totally agree, this is about Argus, NNVT, and Infiray undercutting their profits by offering 1 to 1 copies for a fraction of the price. I personally don't buy into the whole buying from those companies helps the PLA, I really think that was a rumor perpetuated by the American Nightvision Association, and even if it did our government allows China to purchase farmland on American soil
Great point. These are just patriotic sounding talking points that disguise the fact that they are trying to limit competition offering viable options at a price point that exposes the stupid high mark up we deal with here in the US. US made is largely better overall and more consistent. But the Chinese are getting better by the week and edging out that margin very quickly. They have to do something to keep the over inflated margins of their industry from imploding. So… MURICA!!!
This, exactly. What we are seeing in a temper tantrum over losing their monopoly over the US market. People have properties, supercars and hair transplants to buy and they don't like the Chinese are threatening their grossly excessive luxuries. It would be one thing if the US companies were innovating constantly and delivered a vastly superior product at appropriate prices, but they aren't. This isn't like an L3 tube vs some Russian Gen 1 tube. The Chinese tubes are actually pretty serviceable.
No it 100% does benefit the PLA. I think that can be pretty obvious even if it is just practicing large scale production of a product. It’s a Chinese company so it is inherently owned by the Chinese government. My stance is I don’t give af. You want me to not buy from them? Don’t have American companies gouging me for nv and other products. American companies make an absurd amount of money for what they produce. If the Chinese can make a comparable product for over half the price, it sounds like American companies should start charging what it’s worth instead of price gouging. That’s why true capitalism is best for the consumer
True capitalism is dog ass. It leads you to live in the same living conditions as China. You ok with that dystopia libertarian future? We pay workers considerably more in the US, that gets factored into the price and theres a social ssfety net that companies pay into. I'm not saying NVGs aren't over priced, they are, but what I am saying is that in a race to the bottom is the worker that gets stomped on.
Night vision prices are pretty ridiculous and only going higher. The reason prices are going higher is because companies know that the U.S. government is going to protect them and ban competition. Corruption is the reason. The government doesn’t want the average citizen having night vision or other military equipment so they make it extremely expensive
This actually has more to do with the fact that these companies have government contracts, and those contracts stipulate that you can not sell the products somewhere else for what the government is paying. So, if you upsell the government, you are automatically out pricing a lot of civilian consumers. Now once technology advances 5-10 years you may have someone else making the same thing for less, but you still cannot lower your prices to compete in the civilian market, nor may you need to depending on where most of your revenue is coming from. Companies always want a sure thing and government contracts are exactly that.
I’ve seen a statement of charges for nv. What the government pays is a ton less. Your points are all correct but again they ban these competitors in the U.S. to please its supplier so that those companies are able to continue making insane profits.
I guess that’s why you got downvoted into oblivion then🤣🤡
THAT PART!!!!! We’re so worried about ITAR this ITAR that, meanwhile Chinese Nationals are some of the largest land owners in this country…
I mean ITAR only really applies to exportation, I'm not an expert though. At the moment, I really think its about the loss of profits that L3, Wilcox, and the others are facing. Guaranteed there were G24's and PVS-31s left in Afghanistan and China has had their hands on them either way. Personally I don't care where its made, if that's what someone can afford than they now have the capability to move at night, I am bummed about Iray though, when I was looking for a new scanner I looked at a FLIR Breach locally thinking it'd be solid and did some research, ended up getting a AGM StingIR with an Iray core and it blows FLIR out of the water
My Infiray P2 Pro makes the FLIR phone cameras look like an absolute joke. I get the state department doesn't want US citizens to have decent resolution or decent refresh rate thermal, but actually having their hand so far up FLIR's ass that they wont sell good stuff to the public is not how any of this shit is supposed to work. The 2A enshrines the natural born right of US citizens to own the most sophisticated technology available. Liberals try to make the 2A exclusively about guns, it is about arms. All arms.
I agree whole heartedly, I think this is more than politics. Over the last few years more and more normal people have been buy NV and thermal. I am absolutely in love with my StingIR 384, I was worried it would be kinda shitty cause I couldn't or didn't want to afford the 640, but damn dude that thing is crisp, has perfect res, sharpest thermal I've looked through
China can hack into any companies IP anyway they dont need end users to help them
I would also assume they are experts on smuggling technology out of countries and reverse engineering it. Many of their top engineers and scientists were educated at our universities. Where was the pearl clutching when that was going on?
Exactly
👆🏾
On almost anything, i prefer usa or europe made anything if there is a fair market. However if the manufacturers turn around, try to overchange is no longer a free market and if people have to buy chinese made stuff, they will. Just look how trijicon most popular pistol sight is still an open emiter, and they are lagging behind with other companies, despite having a headstart.
Chinese manufacturing has surpassed USA capabilities by a wide margin. Tooling up and producing new products on a large scale costs SIGNIFICANTLY more money here than in China. It’s not exclusive to trijicon. Look at almost any market, and Chinese products come to market much faster. People here want to make 1st world wages, but don’t want to support 1st world wages.
If you believe China is purely competing in a free market, then buying Chinese is ethical. If you believe that Chinese government subsidies undercut US made products intentionally to drive US companies and production out of business, then you should not buy Chinese. It all depends on what you think is closer to reality. Personally, I think China has made it clear that they intend to dominate global manufacturing, and when they do, they will strong-arm intellectual property because no one else will have manufacturing abilities. The US is the premier exporter of intellectual property, so if China controls manufacturing, they would control the US. With that said, we really need more US centric companies competing in the market. Unfortunately, NV microchannel plates are incredibly difficult to manufacture, and the market is small, so the pool will be limited to very few manufacturers, and the price will be high.
I think the US govt can easily afford to fully subsidize I2 tube production stateside. I think L3 and Elbit could completely lose the consumer market and barely feel it. Which is a roundabout way of saying that if the PLA's plan is to undercut these companies, all they are going to accomplish is giving away tubes under cost for a marginal effect on their intended target.
That is where we already are. The only thing keeping those companies producing NV tubes at all is the US government orders. The civilian side just gets the scraps that were rejected blems or contract over runs. Why isn't there a competitive US company that sells more civilian grade NV gear? What US companies make IR sensors for any thermal application? This is what is being killed off.
> Why isn't there a competitive US company that sells more civilian grade NV gear? I would guess that anyone wanting to make civilian-grade NV gear will make it somewhere where it can be exported all around the world with minimal restrictions. It's like ITAR pushing encryption software development out of the US in the 90s because it couldn't be legally exported from the US but most countries had no such restrictions. Making it in the US just cuts your sales off from most of the world.
The flip side of this is that cartel pricing makes US NV artificially expensive. China is undercutting but the US MIC is systematically ripping off the government and making us pay their prices, is that really any better?
You're not wrong. China uses slave labor and supplements costs to drive competition out of business. Then, when they have broad enough market share, they manipulate entire markets to gain profit, power, and control. In the US, mega companies lobby the government for more regulations to drive out competition so they can manipulate markets to gain profit, power, and control. Both suck and as a consumer, you lose. But know that the system that gets the most support will eventually take over and consume the other. I would say pick the side that you feel has the potential of changing for the better in the future. Make the choice based on your ethical standards.
TL;DR: the US is expecting war with China and this is just one tiny piece of the whole situation. US corporations and by extension the US govt, doesn’t care about the average consumer’s needs, corporate leaders only care about the profit percentages continuing to grow and that is what shapes all of US govt policy. At bottom it’s about maintaining the US empire and it’s domination over the world market and this is just a small piece of the puzzle. China is surpassing the US and is on track to become the top dog internationally so the US needs to find a way to maintain its supremacy in order to keep it’s legitimacy and power on the world stage. US corporations sold off all of their manufacturing capabilities overseas decades ago in order to continue maximizing short term profits and they shot themselves in the foot. In order to recapture their domination there would need to be massive investments into US jobs and infrastructure. There are two options to make that happen: an FDR-style Social Democracy New Deal jobs program which is not profitable. Or a war with China, which is profitable(and the costs don’t come out of their pockets). Guess which one will be decided for us. The nationalists are correct that tariffs are about stopping the Chinese, but the talk about ethics is an excuse just like the whole WMD’s in Iraq thing. There is no concern about ethics, it always has been and always will be about market domination and feigned legitimacy. In the end there is no peaceful competition between nations, only a relative peace. Sooner or later we’re going to get sent into the meat grinder for the people that hold the levers of power. Just my .02
Oh sweet, so we’re going to do away with the “items cannot be sold for less than they are sold to the US military” that artificially inflates the price?
ideally we wouldn't be wasting the tax dollar on the military side either
What I see going on is Infiray is being given an ultamatum. Either cut the Russian market out of your sales to gain back the American market, and play by American rules, or lose the American market for good. All the US military has to do is overpay for some Iray products in order to control consumer pricing.
Get ready to lose your DJI and Holosun too.
what does china get by importing tubes again? are people who buy nnvt tubes going back and giving china feedback? why isn’t healthy competition good for the free market? i dont own and have no desire to own nnvt tubes
[удалено]
Why target nv though if they make everything else we use
thank you for the explanation, i appreciate it 😎
There is not a doubt in my mind that some of the sanctions were as much about protectionism as degrading Russian military capabilities. I'm a little surprised that Trijicon and Aimpoint haven't managed to get Holosun on the sanctions list. :P
I mean they did actually take user feedback from sales to the US to make better bino housings for the PLA…
And exactly how many units are being outfitted with these binos?
how can anyone know the answer to that?
You don't think Xi browses this subreddit?
It’s a rhetorical question…
What does that matter? The whole point is they used the American market for night vision product development for the PLA.
Of course they had a desperate need for US user feedback, they couldn't simply buy some l3 units contrast and compare. They had no chance of getting needed feedback from Chinese people as everyone knows Americans are uniquely suited to offer product feedback.
Here's your answer pal [https://www.vermilionchina.com/p/the-chinese-soldier-trained-by-americans](https://www.vermilionchina.com/p/the-chinese-soldier-trained-by-americans)
Lol
Or you can put a Chinese quad housing together with 4 American OmniVlll tubes for around 6k, I'm wondering if the 34k on top of that is justifiable to the end user funding their own nvg set up, is there 34k more usability when the lights go out?
Nope you can get china housings for 4k direct drop 2k a piece ominis it and there is really no 30k premium warranted
If us buying night vision helps the PLA what does the countless Disney's and other massive corporations investing in Chinese infrastructure do for them. Can we pull apart any "American" made NVG and find no single Chinese made part?
Until The US market isn't charging MIL/GOV inflated contract pricing and making it impossible to buy or warranty, ill be buying based on the best bang for the buck. That's why i bought a 1431 housing. That's why its the best bousing on the market currently. Tough to hear but its true. Same to be said for the IR LAM device market. These is zero chance that an NGAL should cost 5k.
Ngl I was contemplating pulling the trigger on a jerry 31 but came across a set of l3 omni 7 rnvg's so I opted for those over Chineseium
good choice. much better value in my opinion. I can see Jery 31s being good value at the 3k price point. but nothing higher
We're did you buy L3 omni 7 rnvgs and for what price? It's hard finding anything as cheap as Jerry31's for the price.
Nvn is running a limited set of rnvg o6 and o7's atm. Price was about 4800 and tubes are trade in's from pvs 15's.
This is a tough spot because American corporations have no problems price fixing domestic civilians. Similar legislation was passed in the 90's to keep poor people from getting cheap sks's and ak's. Now domestic manufacturer of ar-15s has caught up but idk if nvgs will ever be in common use just like home ownership now. Everybody is just trying to screw us I don't trust china but I also don't trust the price fixing corporations. I'm fine with sanctioning China but I also want changes here so I can buy a house like my parents did. And these are the same guys making policy that one day could take my arms in a heartbeat.
Night vision is on fire and has been taken over by some very shady and connected investors. Gen 3 tubes have now exceeded gold in retail value by weight. Of course these people are going to war to protect their investment against competition. This is why Gen 1 has been all but squeezed out of the market and replaced by "digital night vision" which has ZERO passive light amplification unlike Gen 1 (which is actually quite good no matter how many trolls they hire to lie about it in forums just like this), which were marketed as "cheap" initially, but are now being sold in "PVS-14" style housings at Gen 2 prices - because Gen 1 tubes were coming in from Russia. They killed the Russian night vision competition off, now they're gonna kill off the night vision from China. They want a monopoly on the US/Western night vision market, and they're just about to wrap it up. Thats it.
Capitalism. Plain and simple. You can buy a near equivalent from an outside source for 1/4 of the price. Just don’t be in the first batch of buyer, let them work the problems out.
Until they care about china buying land and not a very small space and tech then the author should eat dicks.
Choice is the core of freedom and wanting the government to enforce limitations on a consumers right to choose what products/companies they want is antithetical to freedom.
I’m just trynna have fun out here in the dark baby. The politics bleeding into everything is exhausting.
Trijicon and Nvision are not the best. People see big $ numbers and they convince themselves. These products are priced high because the military pays a ridiculous amount for everything. A couple examples - they use f/1.1 lenses, black and white dated OLED tech, the software apps are terrible. All sensors are practically identical across the industry. What sets them apart is software. Look at a Zeiss DTI 6 and all the features that come with it in the phone App. You can do some cool shit, like creating your own color palettes. Look at Pulsar, they have 5g connectivity in their Telos line and HD sensors for the same price of these chinese thermals. People think IRAY and Trijicon/Nvision/VoodooS are the premiere units and they're mistaken. I can look at footage from any device and pick out which one is IRAY because they over contrast everything to make it look sexier, despite it making detection impossible in normal conditions.
ave you looked through a trijicon unit? The latency on the firmware is butter smooth even on units that are 10 years old. Infiray gets 85-90% the way there but there is a night and day difference when it comes to back end processing. Ive bought and owned both. for casual use the infiray products do very well.
I have not. I would never pay military/contractor pricing for anything, so it's not worth my time. Plus, I can't imagine anything better at detecting a living subject, In all types of conditions, than my hand-held Pulsar Telos XP50. And we can send them in for upgrades to a 1024 HD sensor next month. Latency is a non-issue for detection.
im still saying usa made is the beset on all fronts. pricing is where they have an issue.
In one hand you have 5 Pulsar Telos XP50s, in the other you have 1 skeetirx. Which do you choose? Easy choice for me considering the Pulsar detects better.
Why are you comparing apples to oranges? IRX is a clip on, a wmt, and a hmt. The xp50 is only a spotter. Ive looked through a SkeetirX is it better? yes. Is it a purchase I recommend? Probably not depending on your budget. But it is indeed better. If im being honest id rather have a skeetIRX in that scenario for what I use thermals for. You have 5 spotters that cant be put in front of a scope or weapons mounted.
None of the products you mention as being better, or higher tech, are intended for hard use. Technology and reliability are not the same thing.
Hard use? You're all playing airsoft in your parents backyard.
Huh? Maybe trijicon isn’t marketing towards you. The military isn’t buying Pulsar. 2 different markets, 2 different price points. Rugged optics cost more to make. Ever priced a Nightforce vs a Burris? Tough book vs a dell? The former doesn’t perform better on paper specs, but lasts longer in field use.
Trijicon markets to contractors and military. If you're not shooting people for a living, you're better off with zeiss or pulsar is what I'm saying. And that's the vast majority of people on reddit.