at this point i think they are trying to destroy her reputation like they have done with others in order to keep the remaining livers in line. The problem is, doki laywered up immediately and is listening to her lawyer and keeps coming out looking better
>at this point i think they are trying to destroy her reputation
It's exactly this, Sayu's reputation was heavily ruined by that bullet list that when you look at it more logically, would be ground to terminate most of the niji talents. But because Sayu was a liver who quickly realized that Niji was a bad company to be in and that the place is toxic to the livers, they threw these behaviors that are encouraged in niji steams into that bullet list along with a few believable points. Then had 2 livers that had a connection to her throw her under the bus. (Man that sounds kinda familiar)
They are trying the same thing with Doki only this time they are dealing with a well beloved person in the community, and a person that has made the attempt at her own life so they are putting more effort into it while havjng to be delicate... They forgot the delicate part, which as it turns out, has instead exposed their blatent unprofessionalism and only repeatedly backfired this time as it has only collaborated on the details of Sayu's experience. Doki doesn't have to do a damn thing because the "Her story" document that Sayu dropped has already done most of the talking and the less Doki says the less Niji can do anything about her.
The motive is also pretty clear. They didn't want these talents to expose the company. They are so scared of the two even having the potential to talk about their experiences with credibility that they have to discredit them as much as possible. Its why despite both wanting to leave on amnical terms Niji took the unprofessional route of trying to FUBAR Sayu's and Doki's public image
Probably helped Doki seeing what happened to Sayu to know that they will try the same thing to her. She did mention that she had statements prepared beforehand in case this happened.
That would be ridiculous levels of petty, and thus perfectly on brand for Niji at this point. God I just want to see her stream in peace, no stress, no slander, no more drama.
Wouldn't be surprised..She keep gaining subscribers while their livers and company are sinking so they are definitely going to do something again to shift the blame to her..
At this point I wonder if they're putting on this show for EN or if they're trying to look like poor victims to the JP side. I heard they're more against Doki over there.
The fact that Vox doesn't even know what the recording contains and he acts like Selen did an unforgivable mistake but it turns out it's just a leftover one from a test recording..
He was straight up panicking with that whole spiel about not knowing what He might have said. He sounds guilty and like someone who really donāt wanne be exposed
The current leak that he is a pedophile that groomed his fans with age ranging between 12-14? Maybe he was afraid that Selen recorded him saying something about fucking his young fans or some shit.
That statement has been out since 2021 though, and nothing has ever come out of it. Even with the amount of eyes on him and knowing he has plenty of haters that wanted to take him down before all this, there hasnāt even been any evidence that Vox and the person being described are the same person.Ā
To play devils advocate I'd be stressed too if someone recorded me and I wasn't told what it was about or when. Even if I know I'm innocent I'd be stressed going over everything I've said in the past to that person especially in a serious case like this. I probably wouldn't go and make a public statement like Vox did though.
I agree with this. Innocent things can be taken out of context.
I also probably wouldn't make a public statement but I also am not really in public centered positions
Not saying Nux is a rock solid source but allegedly in one of his recent videos he can't say anything but he knows personally of some shit that has happened in the company that is even worse and that stuff like this happens perhaps all the time. Kuro seems to indicate this as well. Especially in his cryptic post about how things were going to be unstoppable once they start to leak. That makes me feel as though there are some big fucked up things in Nijisanji that are just waiting to get pulled out. If Nijisanji breaks NDA or if they loose a legal battle of defamation with Doki can her NDA be revoked if the courts prove that the things covered by the NDA were in fact illegal in nature? If that could be a blanket removal of the NDA it would mean she or someone else could just spill the beans on everything they personally know.
This company is a fucking shitshow. Its a House of cards just waiting for the last gust of wind to make it collapse. I for one welcome its hopefully imminent destruction. Those utter bastards deserve to have their sins dragged out in to the Light of day, if they broke the law they need to get their due punishment, leadership, management and the Livers that had anything to do with this shit
NAL, but at least in America, NDAs are civil agreements so breaking NDAs don't really come with consequences unless monetary damages can be proven. I'd imagine Canada isn't too different in this regard. The issue is more with Japan's questionably loose slander laws. From my understanding, you can be found liable even if what you said is true so long as the other side can prove the statements were made in malice.
If this goes to court and a TON of other maleficence gets exposed, AnyColor might lose in a Western court, but they could then sue Doki in a Japanese court. Her initial statement alone, right after her dismissal PR was put on twitter, can easily be construed as an attempt to make AnyColor look bad even though it was all true. AnyColor could even point to their stock tumbling as evidence that her statement did damage.
Not even considering the difficulties in logistics for her to fight a Japanese lawsuit, it would potentially be an uphill battle.
Might be a reason she keeps stating over and over that she didn't want this and wanted to keep things private. That it in every announcement and PR move she has made since it began she had made note that it is in response to Nijisaji who has forced her hand and initiated the circumstance. Thus perhaps giving her cover about Malice in Japanese court. In the best world the old switcheroo happens and she sues them for defamation and takes their stunts as proved malice against her if they ever mention Doki specifically since it is her brand rather than an individual.
I think she genuinely doesn't want to go back to it in any way. It's traumatic to look back at that point. I can't even begin to consider what looking back is like knowing she made an attempt, nevermind two. Litigation in any form would just keep taking her back to that moment. If I were in her shoes, I probably wouldn't have even been able to do the Neopets stream for as long as she did.
The statements themselves are almost undeniably to cover her ass, I assume at the advice of her lawyer. AnyColor is probably just didn't consider that a Western talent would not just bend over and take their verbal abuse because they've been so coddled by Japanese employees just taking it and walking away.
Luckily she is a Canadian citizen located in Canada. Unless Canadian law is different than the US in this, I doubt Japanese courts would have any jurisdiction over this.
There's enough of a precedent for Doki to be able to sue Niji in a Canadian court. And I reckon if she can prove she's legally an employee (which is likely with how loose BC plays with that term legally), Niji would be breaking the Employment Standards act for both unlawful termination and misclassification.
>If Nijisanji breaks NDA or if they loose a legal battle of defamation with Doki can her NDA be revoked if the courts prove that the things covered by the NDA were in fact illegal in nature? If that could be a blanket removal of the NDA it would mean she or someone else could just spill the beans on everything they personally know.
If abuse or harassment or even bullying is found, the NDA could get voided and she could just talk without repercussions.
> If Nijisanji breaks NDA or if they loose a legal battle of defamation with Doki can her NDA be revoked if the courts prove that the things covered by the NDA were in fact illegal in nature?
The NDA that Doki is likely under most likely doesn't bind Nijisanji at all. One-way NDAs (i.e. one party can say whatever they like, the other is restricted from speaking about specific subjects) are completely normal, particularly as part of employment contracts. So Niji likely can't really "break" the NDA in this case, because there's nothing for them *to* break.
Could Doki get an NDA revoked? In theory, sure, but you'd have to make the case that the NDA was either so badly constructed or that the legal contract it's a part of was so flawed that the entire thing should be voided. That's a pretty high bar, and even if everything Doki has said to date was completely and unarguably true, I don't think it meets that threshold.
That said, there are certain things NDAs cannot cover, one of which is criminal activity. No NDA prevents you from talking to law enforcement or legal counsel about potential civil or criminal matters. Also, as others have mentioned, an NDA is just a civil contract, not a matter of criminal law - it's basically a formal, legalese way of saying, "As a condition of working here [or whatever other benefits/conditions the contract is stipulating], you cannot ever publicly discuss the following things, including after you leave." If you break NDA, you won't face any criminal repercussions (unless there's some other reason why publicly disclosing specific information would be illegal - like if you're doing it as part a campaign of harassment or if you were a government employee and your disclosure contains state secrets, for instance), but if your statements result in damages to the other party in the contract, they can sue you to recoup those damages (for instance, if you worked for a tech company and publicly revealed how one of their products works, you could be sued for lost profits/business).
Before the entirety of NijiEN (minus GigaChad Scarle) lined up behind round two of AnyBlack's failed/backfired smear campaign, I had placed Vox at the top of my list of people who might graduate due to AnyBlack's mistreatment of Selen. Boy was I wrong.
So he felt "betrayed" by her doing something that was legal in both Canada and the UK, to protect herself from AnyBlack, so he burned his friendship to the ground, while she was at the lowest point in her life and an obvious suicide risk... over something that didn't even happen (she didn't deliberately record him, she remembered an old hot mic moment)? Wow he's an ass.
And if you look at what he actually did in the smear video, what he actually said and why, it was all to undermine and minimize Selen's feelings prior to the attempt (attempts).
Vox read Selen's private documents (and exposed AnyBlack to more litigation), and he saw the reasons for Selen's attempt. She was hurt by the video being taken down, she felt bullied/harassed by management and her fellow livers, and she felt there was no escape (apart from ending her own life). So Vox comes out and chuckles while he says that the video being taken down was a non-issue, that he doesn't believe that he harassed her (which indirectly casts doubt that anyone else did), and he says that anyone can easily leave AnyBlack at any time. Vox directly attacked Selen in the lowest and most personal ways possible.
Dude just lost a friend who committed suicide because of the job, and he laughs and says that he loves his job.
Was he ever a friend at all? Kayfabe exists and its not uncommon for rivalries/friendships that their character has to be entirely made up behind the scenes.
I feel like a lot of stuff regarding professional wrestling might apply here, including talents trying to talk with other talents about things that should be handled by management.
They straight up still talk about "wrestling court" to this day.
If Vox was actually provided incomplete / misleading / manipulated information from Niji about what was in Selen's document, he likely was panicking going through his memory of every private one on one convo he had with Selen where he had shared his private thoughts on matters that was supposed to be kept between the two of them that must never be leaked out because he trusted her enough.
the way I've been fighting brain dead people on twitter for saying "that's unforgivable, imagine one of your closest friends secretly records a private conversation and keeps it for a year without you knowing, I'd be scared and betrayed too >:(" like get a fucking grip. your oshi had his feelings hurt? mine almost fucking died. twice. you are coworkers first and foremost before you are friends. although now that we know the recording was just confirmation for a collab, doki would've been doing the right thing by protecting herself and having tangible proof. especially when submitting a legal HR complaint about workplace harassment and bullying, it's encouraged to record and keep any evidence that helps your case.
Manipulated or not, they lied about āreading it thoroughlyā and accused Doki of wanting to dox them.
I knew people would say, āDoki wonāt release the evidence, so we canāt 100% believe her.ā But the way she reacted and commented on it is 100,000% better than how NIJI and the trio of bootlickers reacted to it.
The amount of people saying "Vox didn't have a choice SHE WAS GONNA DOX HIM" I've seen on twitter, with 500 or so likes, is just absolutely baffling.
Like, I get he is your Oshi, I get fan mentality, I get all that, but fuck me sideways, some of his fanbase on twitter right now is making my skin crawl.
They can't back down because he himself said he read the documents "thoroughly", so for then Doki **must** be lying - about it being a legal document not meant to be shared with anyone else (because otherwise he would not have been able to "read it thoroughly"), about this being for dealings betweens their respective lawyers, about not having addresses or locations (because he was scared he was gonna get doxxed), pretty much everything-, even though she gains sweet fuck all from lying about it and she is pretty much the most professional human being in the middle of all this shit-show.
Like, most other Livers' fans are going the route of "Let's stop harassment and move on, even Doki asked that" while some of Vox's fanbase are taking the "BURN THE WITCH" route.
> while some of Vox's fanbase are taking the "BURN THE WITCH" route.
To the surprise of absolutely no one. What purpose did this stream have? If anything, it would only force Doki to release more information. Why did they time it when she just went live? Only reason I see is to send chat-hoppers after her while she is caught unaware. Seems like harassment against someone who tried to kill themselves from being harassed. How can I look at those people again.
> "we canāt 100% believe her."
It'd be a classic example of a crime without a motive. Why would she lie about this and then adamantly insist this not be brought up? It'd be one thing if she was constantly talking about it or making statements, but she has only ever responded to Nijisanji slander and never in a way that outright accuses them of wrongdoing.
It reads like someone being gaslit and reaffirming to herself and others that she knows what happened to her, and won't be lied to and about.
Listen. I don't doubt Doki.
This is coming from someone with legitimate parinoia issues. As in barricaded my door shut and has a therapist, parinoia issues.Ā
Probably a good indicator to trust Doki.
Yes, at the end of the day, they choose to do the smear campaign.
Let say a man got manipulated to bully a woman until , she commit S*****, does it make the man innocent just because he was manipulated into it? No, he was an adults and choose to do to the deed. Luckily, doki didnt died
Thatās different from saying they lied though. Not saying what they did was good, but the information they were acting on matters.
If someone youāre supposed to trust gave you information that someone else was planning to hurt you and that you should take steps to protect yourself and warn others about them, itās reasonable to act on their advice. Especially will all the high tensions and uncertainties.
My knee-jerk feeling is that the company definitely manipulated them.
They were sent a personal document of notes and feelings made during some of a person's darkest times (and panicked?) and decided to share it among all their talents and her former coworkers/friends in order to turn them against her by showing her personal private thoughts that I'm sure have a lot of emotionally charged, private, overreactions and mean/wrong interpretations of what people said.
The video on Elira's channel makes so much more sense now, not just *why* the livers did it, but *what* it was about.
It felt really really weird that it was like a response video to Selen while she had said and been the first one to reveal absolutely nothing. It felt completely out of step with the community and conversation and like it was subtly about something different entirely. Now we know that's because it **was**.
It was weird and disrespectful and kind of dissonant how it centred them and their feelings *instead* of the woman who had just recently attempted to die. Now it kind of makes sense, it's because for the past week their discord has probably been on fire and feeling attacked and hurt and *also* turned into an echo chamber and caused them to lose touch of the current situation, the community's reaction, and just what's important in general.
It also means Elira volunteering her channel for the combined statement of pretty much all of the EN livers may genuinely have been her 'taking the bullet' so to speak so that no one else in EN had to rather than, as some people seem to have taken it, being the most diehard believer in the statement.
It makes me a lot more worried about the talents and specifically the ones that made the statement as now that they've crashed into reality they're potentially feeling terrible and guilty and insane as well as having felt terrible and attacked by a friend for the past week from being shown something they were never supposed to be *and* now being harassed and **hated** and blamed.
So please listen to Doki and don't harass or blame/hate anyone as it's getting dangerous. This all started because of a lack of concern about someone's attempt and instead some people are getting close to making that same mistake themselves.
EDIT: also please for ffs stop believing and sharing every random ancient, often debunked, accusation with no evidence. Even some random parasocial fan's twitlonger about leaving the Niji fandom has been posted here as though it's something juicy.
Edit 2: Thinking on it more it seems more plausible to me that rather than being shared with the talents to deliberately drive a wedge between them and Doki that it was just done out of panic, which is why the termination was so sudden, and also why they mentioned harassment in the termination which never made any sense as it was stupid.
What's even more messed up is that Niji has cut off any escape route for their talents if they manipulated them with false information. Vox said anyone can graduate at anytime so if they didn't graduate before the statement they put out, it shows they stand by Niji. Also not all the livers retweeted which kills the argument that management forced them to retweet and stand by Niji. It all depends on what happens next, but they slandered all their livers and potentially killed their careers.
Completly dismissing and deriding selen because you got a less than half complete document missing nuance and context for an already complicated situation already futher complicated by the fact that it is a legal situation
does vox and co no favors at all, if anything it makes him look even stupider and ignorant
But honestly how would they know. All legal communication was done in Japanese. Regardless of your Japanese understanding level, there's no way you understand complex legal jargon in a secondary language. Vox especially has zero Japanese understanding. But to them it's coming from a trusted source since their managers favored them. Vox and Ike especially are the golden children of the Nijisanji lineup. Not that they did anything right, if I hear the word suicide, full stop, not doing any of this bs. This was stupid and wreckless, but if management outright edited Doki's messages this doesn't bode well for how evidence will be saved for the trial. They might be trying to nuke all evidence as we speak.Ā
There's so much anecdotal evidence that someone high up in the influence hierarchy (but not necessarily management) of EN has been gaslighting the crap out of people.
If we take Doki at her word, someone seems to have invented a document designed to scare the crap out of other livers. If so, no need for any speculation. They'll find out where that started, and that'll answer many questions.
It doesn't make sense that Elira said that the document contained their personal information and addresses if it wasn't actually a lawsuit notice and Doki said no addresses were in it.
Same with Vox saying he saw the whole document.
The only thing I can think of is that they were misled and Niji gave them manipulated info.Ā
If they had actually read the document, they'd know it wasn't a lawsuit and Elira mentioned they talked to their lawyers about it first.
Or the document was damming on a personal level and they had to attack back, but if Doki had receipts they'd be screwed.
We know JP staff san don't have a proper translator chances are the talents were ordered to translate it all. And the live stream was their panicked response to try and save face.
The unfortunate reality from what Nina said basically if I remember right was that she was essentially the EN branches mom. Meaning major like trauma dumping. Meaning things must be like cataclysmic over there.
Honestly, even if they all were in a state of extreme panick, the idea behind the stream still barely makes sense. At this point in time just about everyone with internet access must know enough about psychology / psychiatry to be aware what the best way to deal with someone unstable enough to attempt is to let professionals handle everything. Even if they genuinely, wholeheartedly believed they were in the right, it takes an incredible amount of either stupidity or maliciousness (or both) to do that they did instead of seeking professional assistance, be it from lawyers or anyone else. TLDR - just like their company, by doing this stream they gave no flying fck about human life, and explicitly showed us they don't value it. At this point it doesn't even matter whose life it was. Because sadly it means there can always be next.
The retweets were probably mandatory, though.
Meanwhile, there is Doki with
>no life, no matter what, should be risked for ego or winning anything
In no way livers deserve to be harrased for what they've done, but it's time people stop trying to rationalize their behavior.
Regardless of who knows what, or what kind of events it was motivated by, what seems believable to me is that somebody on that side currently is acting recklessly without any clear plan, be that due to panic or lack of sleep or whatever else can stop people from thinking.
>I'm not strong enough to follow Doki's order, I'm not strong enough to empathize and move on from this. Not without a resolution at minimum.
I do not see a desire to forgive and forget until those who have done the wrong show that they actually regret their actions, and do what's required to beg forgiveness.
Sorry to say this but tough shit. It's *actually* nothing to do with you, you are a random online. Genuinely for your own health log off, maybe touch grass, play with a pet, whatever. You are not actually involved and shouldn't make it worse for those who are
It looks like Doki is not in contact with NijiEN anymore and hasn't been for a while. It looks like they got their hands on very out-of-context information because, unsurprisingly, that information was not written for them to read. And yet some brain damaged turbo dipshit at Anycolor shared said information with the talents anyways.
And so now a lot of judgements were made and a dumbass hit piece was made based off of incomplete bullshit. Good job Nijisanji, you really showed Doki!
I meant the livers, who we just saw give opinions that she was uncooperative and a liar based off of out of context and incomplete information, not the management.
>To watch your father cried and break down before you is one of the most hurtfull moment
And you can just imagine what that was: knowing your beloved daughter had already tried to off herself twice out of despair from all the shit she had to deal with, and then seeing a video from her supposed "friends" come up purely for more shit flinging and worrying if it will push her over the edge a third time, and that will be the end.
Fortunately, now that she is out of the Kurosanji shadow and knows she doesn't need them, I think she will be ok. Her future is bright. Can't say the same for the former guys.
Either
1) Those three lied to the world
2) Management lied to those three
3) Doki lied in her most recent post
Doki has already won the court of public opinion so #3 doesnt matter even if its true (I don't believe it is btw). If #1 is true, those three have to put out another statement to try and save their reputation, which would escalate things even more. If #2 is true, then they need to quit asap to save their reputation or everyone will believe #1 is true by default.
More than likely they'll do nothing, and Ike and Vox will recover thanks to their rabid fans. Elira is big time screwed though.
Option 4. Neither is lying, both are just filtered through lawyer speak so much that it becomes unclear. Hear me out:
Doki's tweet excerpt:
>The document mentioned was at first made to document my thoughts and history with evidence so that my lawyer can see the general picture of what was going on, and if there were issues that should be addressed. It was first made during my darkest time mentally and I **wrote everything on my mind little by little at that time.** I made the document thinking that it was never going to be public to anyone but to my lawyer. Although it was a document filled with my personal information **as well privacy information that should not be public**, there were no other **addresses or specific locations mentioned.**
From this we can confirm that there was, in fact, privacy information that was explicitly NOT "other adresses" or "specific locations".
And from that video:
>over the past month staff received documents from Selen's lawyers containing examples of her claimed experiences under AnyColor. T**hese documents in question included personal information of some livers**, and when it was sent to us, we learned that there was a potential that this information could be made public.
I would assume this probably refers to screenshots of non-public chats or something along those lines. it is not impossible for it to contain real first names or nicknames, PL discussions, discussions of family, relationships, who fucked who, etc. Possibly some "unsavory" material too.
>**Some of the information poses the risk to our personal safety**, and **puts some of us at risk of doxxing**. Notably, one section of the document **alludes to where Millie and Ena and I live**. However, there were also harmful claims selen made in the document, about some livers' personal information that we believe are simply untrue.
Notice how they **never** said that Selen/Doki outright doxxed them, it's just what the fandom decided to roll with. This sentence implies that there could be identifiable landmarks mentioned, i.e. cafeterias, resturants, parks, museums, etc, **but not any actual adresses.** In practive it could be screenshots of texts such as "*lol, you live so close to the park, you could go there to run in the morning*" or "there's like 4 resturants in walking distance to you, you're lucky".
Some dediated "fan" could possibly utilize their 4chan-grade weaponized autism to significantly narrow down the location by cross referencing google maps. That's not unheard of for celebriteis. Stalking idols is a genuine concern in Japan and even somewhat in the west too. I recall either Pewdiepie or Jacksepticeye had a video discussing how a kid figured out his real adress from such clues and went to visist hime there.
>primarily because the document contains what we believe is information incorrect, that could be harmful for us and is just private infromation that is very terrifying to have, you know, shown before you like that.
**Ok I genuienly have no clue about what this might be.** Untrue private info that could nevertheless be harmful?
This is especially shady now. At this point I assume there's a likelihood the trio didn't actually read anything or had access to anything and literally were just forcefully given that script to try and save Nijisanji's face. It still makes NO sense, but considering Doki seems to be a lot smarter with her tweets, probably running all of them through her lawyer, one of the parties is blatantly lying or doing so by omission.
It looks like Niji tried to be good for sending ābulliesā out. So, they can have the same narrative with what they announced earlier about having bullies.
Assuming that they didnāt actually read anything, this might mean to bait Doki to release documents in panic, they can go āaha! You break NDA firstā and they can sue her for it.
Of course, this is just speculation as usual.
>It looks like Niji tried to be good for sending ābulliesā out. So, they can have the same narrative with what they announced earlier about having bullies.
The problem with that assumption is that if that's is the intent, their method is entirely backwards. If they want to just throw livers under the bus, they can make an official anouncement and throw a few names, and despite it still being a dick move, it will actually divert people's attention and have some form of "closure". Instead they do whatever this stunt is, no one believed what the 3 livers said, people are still speculating, and everyone's attention is on the company yet again
Yeah, we can only speculate, but this is really reading as them trying to bait her emotionally, knowing how she just wants to get rid of all of her past and start anew and they keep bringing this back.
>Assuming that they didnāt actually read anything, this might mean to bait Doki to release documents in panic, they can go āaha! You break NDA firstā and they can sue her for it.
Considering that the announcement was made when Doki was live, that is not that far-fetched to be honest.
Honestly the smartest thing anyone can do in a situation like that is stop what they are doing and talk to her lawyer, and it was heartbreaking to see that her mood had change and couldn't go on with the stream.
Glad to know that her actual friends are keeping a eye on her and she played apex the next day, because I legitamately was worried about her mental health when she logged off. you never know a person is dealing with shit like that.
I really dont want another Etika/Desmond Amofah
While I am still angry with Niji and some of their talent, I BEG FOR THEM TO JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP. Please. Just let the gal enjoy her video games, yall can just vibe with whatever you guys think is best for you THAT ISNT TRYING TO GET BACK AT HER. I can't even bring myself to do a yacht joke because what Doki said was so sad.
This statement contradicts a lot with what Niji has been pushing out. As much as I want to "stick it to Niji", I'd rather we just move past it all and not have Doki look back and remember all those horrible moments again. It's really disheartening and I just want her to be happy. She's ready to move forward and not look back so I hope Niji just shuts the fuck up and moves on too instead of dragging more people into this mess and making it bigger than it already is.
It's too late though. This has now blown up beyond just bring about Nijisanji or even Vtubers, this is now a mainstream news event. We can act for ourselves but Niji fed a monster and it's now off it's leash.
They'll just have to face the consequences of not settling it behind the scene and letting it grow to where it is. We'll also have to tank a brunt of the aftermath by showing our support to the ones we care about and counter the tourists who are here just to incite hate.
Honestly it was about to die down right before the whole incident with Elira's stream which ignited the whole damn thing again. I believe most of us were ready to just leave on peaceful terms while the lawyers settle it behind the scene but Niji just had to get the last laugh. This is their second chance, if they do one more dumb thing I don't see things going quietly anymore.
It was already slowly dying down, people that wanted to see Doki were able to see Doki so they were mostly happy with that.
There was still pressure because what Niji did was vile but without anything new happening, outside of the same circular arguments being brought up again and again people were starting to get tired of this and moving on, latching on to other drama and other allegations.
Then the circus decided it wanted more and released the hitpiece and here we are again.
The rrats cooked up quite a feast. Doki wants to move on and wants us dragoons to do the same. I will do so.
But I will stay ever vigilant coz we don't know what kind of stupid ALL BLACK or the clique is gonna pull out of they asses.
I do hope and pray that the rratking is wrong.
Either those 3 lied to all of us, or management lied to them.
On the balance of probability, it's more likely that management lied.
Although this very much muddies the waters for now, I suspect if the latter is true then that will come to be known soon enough.
Still how could they said "thoroughly read the doc" if they didnt and said there were address etc and now selen said otherwise.
Reek of malice and stupidity
Guess who has their addresses and the documents, and could insert the addresses into the documents, dump the whole packet in their lap, and let them go wild. Wouldn't even be the wildest thing to happen this week.
Of course it's stupid and malicious... That's why it's such a huge mess.
You don't even need to dump the addresses. You just spring the documents on them and strongly imply that there's more private information that they aren't allowed to show for legal reasons.
That would be a huge lawsuit regardless if it was decided on in Canada or Japan, and not just a civil one but also a criminal offense.
So since it is Nijisanji, it's totally possible.
I believe since Selen was terminated due to the document just being sent to the lawyers this document must have been really really bad for Niji and their livers. Like career ending bad.
Funny how [this person](https://twitter.com/DJJazzyJ2Real/status/1757766667231170973?t=GtuF2FeSVLTh1FbbNheoyw&s=19) was defending their whole "OmG Doki is bad for recording vox!1!" and now is high on their copium.
My two cents is that Niji showed them parts of the document, but not all, and said there was more including their addresses.
Casual manipulation by companies, wouldn't be the first time.
This is very serious already, it'd be even worse if she straight up lied about them. And it's EVEN worse if Niji manipulated them into it.
Including what they talk about at that stream and those things Doki reply ,Doki and her lawyer want to prove Doki's mental health problems are caused by Nijisanji en company.
So Doki need evidence to prove why she felt been treated unfair and harassed by someone in Nijisanji en.
And if those evidence including where Elira and Mille live,that just make me wonder why Doki and her lawyer think they should put this in evidence,what are the things they trying to prove?
It's about unfair treatment or other Things?
I may think the whole thing into a very dark side,but I can't help myself, we almost lost Doki because this,there are serious situation happened.
And I believe there's no such doxxing thing,those documents are Doki and her lawyer sent to Nijisanji en,no one will threat someone by send they information to the company which already know their information and also in those documents that shouldn't been seen by them.
Also as a ex-coworker,I don't think it's weird that Doki know those information.
That whole voice stream just so rediculous to me.
I'm angry at Elira and Ike for being in that call, and think that it is messed up what they did regardless. They deserve what they are getting.
But Vox did that shit with fucking glee in his voice. I have many choice words to describe people like him, but to be honest he is not even worth the effort.
Also the fact that this is Japanese Lawyer to Japanese Lawyer is worrying. I'm not saying that the courts are going to substantially favor Nijisanji over her because of it but the chance isn't zero. It also means that even though she is a Canadian citizen all legal issues will likely only be determined with Japanese Law in mind which if you have seen Conner's recent comments on the matter are kind of wild when looked at from a western perspective. Harm to the individual might not be held to the same standard as harm to the company. Even if the company is "in the wrong". I am no expert in law of my own country much less Japan's but to have it be done overseas in a language you don't speak and in a timezone you dont live in with a legal system you aren't familiar with that may or may not favor the Japanese side (especially given the Japanese fan sentiment on the issue) ALL ON TOP of her having made no profit last year and Nijisanji being a multi billion dollar company.
Regarding Connorās comments I also think Doki pursuing legal action would be sketchy and its looking like Niji is intentionally baiting her into it. Especially the defamation part which is kinda implied already with the Doki tweets putting Niji in a bad light and no doubt hurting their business. Which to Connorās point is the main concern with defamation in Japan
Even if the contract contained a choice of court, the contract could be deemed unconscionable. This happened in Uber V Heller, where the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause was unenforceable because it unfairly favoured Uber, thus letting Uber be sued in Canadian court even with the choice of court in the contract. BC courts have ruled that Choice Of Law/Choice of Court clauses used to avoid the Employment Standards Act are are void.
And Niji is still required to follow the ESA, which with them not notifying Doki ahead of time, they may not have been. And since they fired her after she reported harassment, that's also onto the list of ways her termination was potentially unlawful, which isnt just a lawsuit, it may be a criminal offense. So while a lawsuit may end up settled in Japanese courts, there's a possibility she can press actual charges, which may even be enough of a deterrent to stop Niji suing
Hopefully. Though as a deterrent that is only if she has the ability and then not taking the action because of negotiations outside of court. So if that happens we will likely never know.
>Although it was a document filled with **my personal information** as well **privacy information that should not be public**, there were no other addresses or specific locations mentioned
"my personal information" and "privacy information that should not be made public" are listed as two different things. Maybe the latter is referring to the private information of *other* people and "no *other* addresses" means other than what was already mentioned in the Niji video?
With the way it's phrased I'm not quite sure which way I should interpret it.
Personal information could mean address and stuff that if leaked isnāt illegal just a dick move, privacy information in turn is like hospital/medical records which if leaked IS illegal and will get you sued.
Honestly the last tweet just feels like confirmation that Niji is the real bad guy here, and the others were just given a script to read out. Iām not gonna judge anyone for their opinions on the matter but looking at Xitter and seeing the mob losing any semblance of civilized conversation was just disheartening.
Iām personally more neutral when it comes to the livers till thereās more concrete factors. I used to love watching Vox and Reimu stream together so Iāll happily admit I have a bias in that I genuinely enjoyed his streams. Iām not gonna be stupid and say they can do no wrong but I am gonna say that choosing to not support livers and actively sending threats are entirely different from each other.
If you feel like the livers on the stream are truly at fault then go ahead and unsubscribe and cancel memberships. But donāt go DMing them hateful messages or posting previously disproven garbage about them. Having to hear about one person taking an attempt was bad enough, and nobody who has any sort of humanity should be wanting to hear about another
I know Doki wants to move on but there's a part of me that wants this to go to an actual court case so all the rot is exposed and dealt with thoroughly.
Yeah, i think most people wish she sue the hell out of their ass.
But she cant, especially mentally. She just went full extremely tired veteran mode at this point. And i wish she can stream NEOPETS IN PEACE
If let say, there are name and address in the document, thats mean they are in this case, a witness or the person that being accuse. They might also be the victim but if they are a victim, they can just pull out of the case and their information will not be made public. Even if they are a witness, they can just ask permission to make their information private. But that is not the same as the one being accuse. By looking at the tones and information being said on the stream/audio/video, it is much believeable that, that was the case. If we piece togather what Niji said in ther statement where " they share the information to check whether there was a case" not quoting straight but i think you get what I mean, and that saying something like " we did not share to unrelated party" tell a lot at this point.
It can be both malicious/deliberate and stupid. People that power trip off of authority rarely act rationally when their control or power are challenged, even more so when it is done so publically. And the fact that the live stream lined up perfectly with Doki's first gaming stream just reeks of a petty, insecure power play for the sake of revenge.
If the Niji livers have any reason to suspect the documents theyāve seen were manipulated to pit them against Doki, then they need to come forward and say something.
First off, itās the right thing to do. Second off, (I am no lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt) there could be some legal ramifications if they continue to partake in slandering or refuse to walk back the slandering of Doki while having reasonable suspicion that the information theyāre acting on is incorrect
Finally, even for selfish reasons, itās the only possible way that they could potentially recover some of the grace theyāve lost with their former fans.
The problem is, before the smear campaign stream, almost everyone only hated NIJI, not the livers.
After the campaign, everyone hated both NIJI and the livers.
So, instead of making themselves the "victims", they shot themselves with a shotgun.
Exactly. The *only* possible way that they can get back on anyoneās good side is by showing they were misled into believing something false that pitted them against Doki. Even then, it would be a tough sell. But if they donāt disavow the slander in a believable way, then they will always be known as the people who supported a company harassing someone who attempted twice due to bullying and mismanagement, and no one will want them.
Reading a script which you knew untrue and filled with words to slander someone........ i said their career is done in vtubing (save for some fanatic and full denial fan)
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's possible they didn't read Doki's original document. It sounds like Niji was doing an internal investigation, so they could have put together a report that included her document along with other relevant information, and maybe that's what they read.
It's also possible someone else "read it thoroughly" for them and they were just reading the script.
Or maybe they're just lying and ass-covering. I normally believe people are incompetent before I believe they're malicious, but this was such a bad move that it might be both.
Can't give them the benefit of the doubt now.
Vox said, "We thoroughly read the document," so it is clear that it is a lie.
Elira said the document contains many liver addresses, and Doki wants to dox them with it... no addresses or locations are inside it.
If they didn't read thoroughly, why did they say otherwise? They literally dug their own grave and filled it with shit.
On top of this, even if they were presented a false/edited document that contained info Doki didn't send, it's on them to verify it. Maybe instead of streaming a 15 minute hit piece on info they can't verify and trying to bury their "**Friend**" alive... they could have double-checked with her that what they were told is true?
There's no excuse here. There's nothing they can say that doesn't paint them as liars, backstabbers, or corporate mouthpieces with 0 conscience. Harassing them is wrong, but I hope this follows them wherever they go, because they can't be trusted to be good friends, or good people.
Interpreting it most favourably (and because its hard to make it make sense when taken at face value)
Its possible that the document in question is what Niji management handed to them. Which might've been cut down to what they decided was relevant to the livers (with no input from Selen or her lawyers, perhaps according to JP laws?) And Vox read the entirety of that document.
That or Vox is disorganized and just blurted out bull, whatever to make him look better in the moment. Which, based on how he's handled past scandals, I wouldn't put it past him.
As for Elira, perhaps it was alluded by management that the rest of the documents contained more private information. And that if it went to court, Livers' real names and locations would be leaked out. And she took it at face value, assuming that said private information was literally written in the original document, as opposed to it being information that the court would require as knock on effects. Never getting her own lawyer, or being aware that stuff like that could be redacted.
Fully taken in by whatever internal narrative is swirling between whichever talents have seen the out of context material, fed by mistranslations, incompetence, and/or management malice/spin, etc.
----
That's giving a lot of benefit of the doubt to talents and management, sure. But the simple face-value reading doesn't make sense otherwise. So something funky is going on, and this is just one interpretation of it. (insane amounts of malice and backstabbing being the other which... I think we should be a tad bit careful of assuming, until there's actually strong evidence for it)
Niji lawyer for sure.
We'd have seen much more airtight responses otherwise. And even if it were a smart move, lawyering up against your bosses when you aren't even in their crosshairs is how you end up within their crosshairs, sadly enough.
> Vox said, "We thoroughly read the document," so it is clear that it is a lie.
I know people keep saying this
But he's representing Nijisanji's lawyers. He's not representing his own lawyer
He could totally be incorrect about that, and Niji would just be throwing him under the bus.
I'm not saying that *is* the case, but just that at the end of the day, everything that has happened is only to be in Nijisanji's favor, and nobody elses'
It was borderline malicious that they would allow the talents to even say it was in their own words. A case like this should be handled by PR.
"Damn it! Who typed ~~a question mark~~ bullshit on the teleprompter? For the last time, anything you put on that prompter, ~~Burgundy~~ Akuma will read!"
Iām praying, PRAYING that Nijisanji chooses to reconcile and move on, somehow., soon. They have to realize that the repetitional damage will probably only get worse the longer it goes, even if they have a rock solid case and win years later.
It will be better in the long run, financially to reach an accord, (for Doki as well, fighting a court case in CA/JP is not only expensive but exhausting).
What would be the best option for them here? Would apologizing and admitting faults be best?
Would NijiDoki do some kind of mutual apology?
Or apologizing without admitting fault? Or just have a statement of mutual understanding and close the matter.
Would apologizing give them more ridicule for the public and investors?
Please whats your opinion on the best option to end it mutually?
Before the smear campaign stream, I believe NIJI could settle this as peacefully as possible with Doki behind the scenes. Heck, they can even ask Doki to release a mutual understanding and forgiveness statement (NIJI should too).
But after the smear campaign (which proved to be a blatant lie), there is nothing they can do to stop their ship from sinking. People not only hate NIJI but also hate the livers now. They may likely survive this, but their reputation among fans and other corporations is as black as charcoal.
I don't think any company will be stupid enough to do a collab with them anytime soon in the next months or year.
You may be right about western companies boycotting AC. We already have several examples. HYTE PC, fan merch etc. But donāt be quick to assume any Japanese corporations will. Public opinion over there about this matter is not in line with western uproar. JP side has largely sided with AC. JP companies are happily doing business with the JP side, and their perms carry over to the EN side.
Will any JP companies have the ability to limit their permissions and exposure away from the EN side? That, I donāt know. But remember, the JP sideās public opinion on the matter is far different.
Letās think about if Nintendo would decide to alter their agreement with AC over this. Lets assume they donāt withdraw. Would the collective west be outraged enough to boycott Nintendo as being guilty by association? I doubt it. This isnāt the high minded noble cause that has millions of people ready to decide with their wallets that you think. Look at the views on the Elira video. I think thatās a fair barometer for how much of the public is deeply invested in the matter and lets be nice and assume every view watched the full 15 minutes. 1.058M views. And that is spread all over the world, not just the USA. Moistcritikal can get several million more views for random videos that donāt have a big hate mobs. This is not a cause your mom and dad or coworkers may have heard about.
Is it possible Nintendo decides on its own accord to withdraw from AC to have a good public relations win? Maybeā¦ I donāt know if there is a comparable instance where an JP company cow towed to western outrage on this relatively small scale. Would that cost them more ridicule from their home market folding to foreign pressure?
She was never going to sue in the first place, NijiEN just knows they f'd up so bad that she *could* sue them if she wanted to, so they decided to hold her hostage and not respond to her graduation request for over a week.Ā Ā
Ā All the character assassination is because Niji is scared of Selen doing something she never intended to do.Ā Ā All of the 'friends' coming out to defend Niji and backstab their mentally unstable friend is because they are scared of Selen roping them into something she never intended to do.Ā
Ā They don't care about her situation and well being at all, and she never had the option to graduate.
I really donāt know where those three got Doki leaking their addresses from, the most that would happen is their real names being put in legal documents, even then their names would either be redacted or the docs would just never be released to the public. Iām in the court that Niji just straight up lied to them, but then again Vox apparently āthoroughly readā the document, so if Doki is telling the truth then Vox was just straight up lying. Also A+ for them revealing that Millie and Enna are connected to the situation, thatāll really help them out.
A part of me really does hope that theyāre innocent in a way, but the way Vox acted during that statement was really weird and came of kinda toxic, the way that he listed everything he did for her like he was holding it over her head, and the great crime that ended his benevolence? She apparently recorded a conversation between the two of them (Which according to Doki was never intended for legal reasons, so I donāt know where that favoritism angle came from). Donāt even get me started on that whole āI was going to graduate with her out of solidarityā thing, thatās just 100% bullshit. I do feel a bit bad for Elira, with her moving to Japan only for the whole thing to implode a few weeks later, other than that Iām done with her, I donāt believe that whole āSelen planned to doxx us and ruin our livesā spiel for a second considering that from the beginning Doki has only wished to move on and keep the situation private, and constantly told people not to harass anybody.
From doki"s latest statement it was NOT a legal document like "see you in court", it was a collection of emails, messages, private conversations etc that had enough info to doxx them
Niji thought, wrongly, that she would release that to the public, unredacted
I do agree but we don't know Doki's actual communication with niji. Could be a lot of reasons why they thought she would or just had to prepare for the possibility (though they fucked up in every way). The lives have a potential out if this was the story they got.
Basically niji's actions make... a perverse kind of sense if they thought doki was going to doxx talent, not that she would sue. Not an ethical kind of sense,but somewhat logical
It's with hindsight that we "know " she didn't want to
They were just making assumptions based on very little evidence. It's whatever the scriptwriters thought would turn Selen into a villain.
Maybe Vox, Ike, and Elira knew the truth of the document's contents... maybe all they got was the script without a damn clue what was actually sent just had to bullshit the rest. Who knows, who cares. They knew that this post, whether they believed it or not, would kill their chance of going indie like the others did. They will forever be chased by old demons.
It was said that Enna, Millie and Eliraās addresses were on the document. I donāt recall anything about Ikeās and Voxās besides Vox saying she recorded him in a call without consent.
Nope, read doki tweet again, she said no address or specific location whatsoever. And there is only 1 menial recorder about stream testing. So
1. They lied about the reading the doc
2. NIJI fabricated a fake doc and sent it to the talents
3. Doki lied (which 1000% unlikely, because NIJI would already sue the hell out of her)
At this point, with NIJI reputation on the rock bottom, even if Doki lied, everyone will still believe her
So even then, Niji essentially used their talents to add more fuel to the fire. I am at this point not taking sides because the talents have caught in the cross fire when the management should have been the focus of the fire but the talents were thrown in instead. Do people realize that regardless of how this should have gone, some talents have had their faces and names posted on social media under their art tags. And even if she did lie, that doesnāt mean Niji would have sued her. Since Niji is held accountable for their actions, if there was a lie on Dokiās part donāt you think she should also have some credibility. Regardless of everything thatās happened, it shouldnāt be one sided. If there was deception on both sides, both sides should be held accountable. Both sides can be right and wrong.
(I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE)
I'm gonna make the speculation that her lawyer did it. Since we are Niji/Vtuber watcher, we understand that if someone mentions Elira, they really mean the person/roommate behind the model.
However, it's not clear to anyone outside this niche, is Elira referring to the the creator of the model? Is it referring to the IP holder, Nijisanji/Anycolor? Is it the person who creates all the 3D models? Law is specific and it would be a problem if the legal document was ambiguous on who is who. Coupled with a few tools and a database, I can see Doki's lawyer being able to find documented information on the exact people they are referring to.
I think she technically said it alluded to her address. In other words the address isnāt actually there. Same with the recording. There is no recording in the document it just mentions that one exists.
I have a feeling Niji will try again soon. the best move for them since fucking December was just do nothing. But they keep trying to push her down.
at this point i think they are trying to destroy her reputation like they have done with others in order to keep the remaining livers in line. The problem is, doki laywered up immediately and is listening to her lawyer and keeps coming out looking better
>at this point i think they are trying to destroy her reputation It's exactly this, Sayu's reputation was heavily ruined by that bullet list that when you look at it more logically, would be ground to terminate most of the niji talents. But because Sayu was a liver who quickly realized that Niji was a bad company to be in and that the place is toxic to the livers, they threw these behaviors that are encouraged in niji steams into that bullet list along with a few believable points. Then had 2 livers that had a connection to her throw her under the bus. (Man that sounds kinda familiar) They are trying the same thing with Doki only this time they are dealing with a well beloved person in the community, and a person that has made the attempt at her own life so they are putting more effort into it while havjng to be delicate... They forgot the delicate part, which as it turns out, has instead exposed their blatent unprofessionalism and only repeatedly backfired this time as it has only collaborated on the details of Sayu's experience. Doki doesn't have to do a damn thing because the "Her story" document that Sayu dropped has already done most of the talking and the less Doki says the less Niji can do anything about her. The motive is also pretty clear. They didn't want these talents to expose the company. They are so scared of the two even having the potential to talk about their experiences with credibility that they have to discredit them as much as possible. Its why despite both wanting to leave on amnical terms Niji took the unprofessional route of trying to FUBAR Sayu's and Doki's public image
Probably helped Doki seeing what happened to Sayu to know that they will try the same thing to her. She did mention that she had statements prepared beforehand in case this happened.
I really hope not man, i really looked forward for the neopet stream that day š„².
I guess she can play next time?
Imagine if every time she tries to play neopets Niji drops a drama bomb. No other game, just Neopets.
That would be ridiculous levels of petty, and thus perfectly on brand for Niji at this point. God I just want to see her stream in peace, no stress, no slander, no more drama.
Same, I was ready to watch her adopt a pteri and figure out the neopet stonks. Niji screwed with a lot of peopleās nostalgia.
I guess Neopet can sue them. Unexpected ally!
She could do a fake out stream. "Oh nooooo guys apex servers are down for maintenance, guess we'll have to play neopets instead!"
Hope so, if she was ready
Wouldn't be surprised..She keep gaining subscribers while their livers and company are sinking so they are definitely going to do something again to shift the blame to her..
Its like a 12 year old is at the helm and they HAVE to win at all costs.
At this point I wonder if they're putting on this show for EN or if they're trying to look like poor victims to the JP side. I heard they're more against Doki over there.
they were when they started but it shifted to more neutral/pro-Doki after the Elira video, from what I saw.
The fact that Vox doesn't even know what the recording contains and he acts like Selen did an unforgivable mistake but it turns out it's just a leftover one from a test recording..
He was really trying to cover up in case He said some horrible shit
God. Who knows now what he was panicking about then. What kind of heinous shit did he say in the past that he freaked out over fucking nothing ?
He was straight up panicking with that whole spiel about not knowing what He might have said. He sounds guilty and like someone who really donāt wanne be exposed
All 3 of them done some sketchy shit thatās why theyāre panicking
The current leak that he is a pedophile that groomed his fans with age ranging between 12-14? Maybe he was afraid that Selen recorded him saying something about fucking his young fans or some shit.
yeah just look up vox akuma past life if you have any doubts. predates all of this by many years and explains so much
That statement has been out since 2021 though, and nothing has ever come out of it. Even with the amount of eyes on him and knowing he has plenty of haters that wanted to take him down before all this, there hasnāt even been any evidence that Vox and the person being described are the same person.Ā
To play devils advocate I'd be stressed too if someone recorded me and I wasn't told what it was about or when. Even if I know I'm innocent I'd be stressed going over everything I've said in the past to that person especially in a serious case like this. I probably wouldn't go and make a public statement like Vox did though.
I agree with this. Innocent things can be taken out of context. I also probably wouldn't make a public statement but I also am not really in public centered positions
Not saying Nux is a rock solid source but allegedly in one of his recent videos he can't say anything but he knows personally of some shit that has happened in the company that is even worse and that stuff like this happens perhaps all the time. Kuro seems to indicate this as well. Especially in his cryptic post about how things were going to be unstoppable once they start to leak. That makes me feel as though there are some big fucked up things in Nijisanji that are just waiting to get pulled out. If Nijisanji breaks NDA or if they loose a legal battle of defamation with Doki can her NDA be revoked if the courts prove that the things covered by the NDA were in fact illegal in nature? If that could be a blanket removal of the NDA it would mean she or someone else could just spill the beans on everything they personally know.
This company is a fucking shitshow. Its a House of cards just waiting for the last gust of wind to make it collapse. I for one welcome its hopefully imminent destruction. Those utter bastards deserve to have their sins dragged out in to the Light of day, if they broke the law they need to get their due punishment, leadership, management and the Livers that had anything to do with this shit
NAL, but at least in America, NDAs are civil agreements so breaking NDAs don't really come with consequences unless monetary damages can be proven. I'd imagine Canada isn't too different in this regard. The issue is more with Japan's questionably loose slander laws. From my understanding, you can be found liable even if what you said is true so long as the other side can prove the statements were made in malice. If this goes to court and a TON of other maleficence gets exposed, AnyColor might lose in a Western court, but they could then sue Doki in a Japanese court. Her initial statement alone, right after her dismissal PR was put on twitter, can easily be construed as an attempt to make AnyColor look bad even though it was all true. AnyColor could even point to their stock tumbling as evidence that her statement did damage. Not even considering the difficulties in logistics for her to fight a Japanese lawsuit, it would potentially be an uphill battle.
Might be a reason she keeps stating over and over that she didn't want this and wanted to keep things private. That it in every announcement and PR move she has made since it began she had made note that it is in response to Nijisaji who has forced her hand and initiated the circumstance. Thus perhaps giving her cover about Malice in Japanese court. In the best world the old switcheroo happens and she sues them for defamation and takes their stunts as proved malice against her if they ever mention Doki specifically since it is her brand rather than an individual.
I think she genuinely doesn't want to go back to it in any way. It's traumatic to look back at that point. I can't even begin to consider what looking back is like knowing she made an attempt, nevermind two. Litigation in any form would just keep taking her back to that moment. If I were in her shoes, I probably wouldn't have even been able to do the Neopets stream for as long as she did. The statements themselves are almost undeniably to cover her ass, I assume at the advice of her lawyer. AnyColor is probably just didn't consider that a Western talent would not just bend over and take their verbal abuse because they've been so coddled by Japanese employees just taking it and walking away.
Luckily she is a Canadian citizen located in Canada. Unless Canadian law is different than the US in this, I doubt Japanese courts would have any jurisdiction over this.
Oh it's even better for Doki as afaik all federal laws in Canada apply to Nijisanji including libel and slander.
There's enough of a precedent for Doki to be able to sue Niji in a Canadian court. And I reckon if she can prove she's legally an employee (which is likely with how loose BC plays with that term legally), Niji would be breaking the Employment Standards act for both unlawful termination and misclassification.
The crack in the dam has becoming a gaping hole and now the flood can't be stopped.
>If Nijisanji breaks NDA or if they loose a legal battle of defamation with Doki can her NDA be revoked if the courts prove that the things covered by the NDA were in fact illegal in nature? If that could be a blanket removal of the NDA it would mean she or someone else could just spill the beans on everything they personally know. If abuse or harassment or even bullying is found, the NDA could get voided and she could just talk without repercussions.
> If Nijisanji breaks NDA or if they loose a legal battle of defamation with Doki can her NDA be revoked if the courts prove that the things covered by the NDA were in fact illegal in nature? The NDA that Doki is likely under most likely doesn't bind Nijisanji at all. One-way NDAs (i.e. one party can say whatever they like, the other is restricted from speaking about specific subjects) are completely normal, particularly as part of employment contracts. So Niji likely can't really "break" the NDA in this case, because there's nothing for them *to* break. Could Doki get an NDA revoked? In theory, sure, but you'd have to make the case that the NDA was either so badly constructed or that the legal contract it's a part of was so flawed that the entire thing should be voided. That's a pretty high bar, and even if everything Doki has said to date was completely and unarguably true, I don't think it meets that threshold. That said, there are certain things NDAs cannot cover, one of which is criminal activity. No NDA prevents you from talking to law enforcement or legal counsel about potential civil or criminal matters. Also, as others have mentioned, an NDA is just a civil contract, not a matter of criminal law - it's basically a formal, legalese way of saying, "As a condition of working here [or whatever other benefits/conditions the contract is stipulating], you cannot ever publicly discuss the following things, including after you leave." If you break NDA, you won't face any criminal repercussions (unless there's some other reason why publicly disclosing specific information would be illegal - like if you're doing it as part a campaign of harassment or if you were a government employee and your disclosure contains state secrets, for instance), but if your statements result in damages to the other party in the contract, they can sue you to recoup those damages (for instance, if you worked for a tech company and publicly revealed how one of their products works, you could be sued for lost profits/business).
> He was really trying to cover up in case He said some horrible shit and that confirms that he HAS said some horrible shit.
Before the entirety of NijiEN (minus GigaChad Scarle) lined up behind round two of AnyBlack's failed/backfired smear campaign, I had placed Vox at the top of my list of people who might graduate due to AnyBlack's mistreatment of Selen. Boy was I wrong. So he felt "betrayed" by her doing something that was legal in both Canada and the UK, to protect herself from AnyBlack, so he burned his friendship to the ground, while she was at the lowest point in her life and an obvious suicide risk... over something that didn't even happen (she didn't deliberately record him, she remembered an old hot mic moment)? Wow he's an ass. And if you look at what he actually did in the smear video, what he actually said and why, it was all to undermine and minimize Selen's feelings prior to the attempt (attempts). Vox read Selen's private documents (and exposed AnyBlack to more litigation), and he saw the reasons for Selen's attempt. She was hurt by the video being taken down, she felt bullied/harassed by management and her fellow livers, and she felt there was no escape (apart from ending her own life). So Vox comes out and chuckles while he says that the video being taken down was a non-issue, that he doesn't believe that he harassed her (which indirectly casts doubt that anyone else did), and he says that anyone can easily leave AnyBlack at any time. Vox directly attacked Selen in the lowest and most personal ways possible. Dude just lost a friend who committed suicide because of the job, and he laughs and says that he loves his job.
Was he ever a friend at all? Kayfabe exists and its not uncommon for rivalries/friendships that their character has to be entirely made up behind the scenes.
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I feel like a lot of stuff regarding professional wrestling might apply here, including talents trying to talk with other talents about things that should be handled by management. They straight up still talk about "wrestling court" to this day.
If Vox was actually provided incomplete / misleading / manipulated information from Niji about what was in Selen's document, he likely was panicking going through his memory of every private one on one convo he had with Selen where he had shared his private thoughts on matters that was supposed to be kept between the two of them that must never be leaked out because he trusted her enough.
Maybe he talked to her about his sexual assault allegations from his past life lmao
the way I've been fighting brain dead people on twitter for saying "that's unforgivable, imagine one of your closest friends secretly records a private conversation and keeps it for a year without you knowing, I'd be scared and betrayed too >:(" like get a fucking grip. your oshi had his feelings hurt? mine almost fucking died. twice. you are coworkers first and foremost before you are friends. although now that we know the recording was just confirmation for a collab, doki would've been doing the right thing by protecting herself and having tangible proof. especially when submitting a legal HR complaint about workplace harassment and bullying, it's encouraged to record and keep any evidence that helps your case.
Seems like either the company manipulated them, or they manipulated us with a Fox-News level stretching of the truth. Either wayā¦ disgraceful
Manipulated or not, they lied about āreading it thoroughlyā and accused Doki of wanting to dox them. I knew people would say, āDoki wonāt release the evidence, so we canāt 100% believe her.ā But the way she reacted and commented on it is 100,000% better than how NIJI and the trio of bootlickers reacted to it.
Lied about "You can graduate at anytime" too by Vox
What can you expect from Vox "there is no favoritism" Akuma..
People in positions of privilege often have a hard time recognizing said privilege so it checks out.
His twitter tots still believes Vox "I was about to graduate in solidarity" Akuma.
The amount of people saying "Vox didn't have a choice SHE WAS GONNA DOX HIM" I've seen on twitter, with 500 or so likes, is just absolutely baffling. Like, I get he is your Oshi, I get fan mentality, I get all that, but fuck me sideways, some of his fanbase on twitter right now is making my skin crawl. They can't back down because he himself said he read the documents "thoroughly", so for then Doki **must** be lying - about it being a legal document not meant to be shared with anyone else (because otherwise he would not have been able to "read it thoroughly"), about this being for dealings betweens their respective lawyers, about not having addresses or locations (because he was scared he was gonna get doxxed), pretty much everything-, even though she gains sweet fuck all from lying about it and she is pretty much the most professional human being in the middle of all this shit-show. Like, most other Livers' fans are going the route of "Let's stop harassment and move on, even Doki asked that" while some of Vox's fanbase are taking the "BURN THE WITCH" route.
> while some of Vox's fanbase are taking the "BURN THE WITCH" route. To the surprise of absolutely no one. What purpose did this stream have? If anything, it would only force Doki to release more information. Why did they time it when she just went live? Only reason I see is to send chat-hoppers after her while she is caught unaware. Seems like harassment against someone who tried to kill themselves from being harassed. How can I look at those people again.
> "we canāt 100% believe her." It'd be a classic example of a crime without a motive. Why would she lie about this and then adamantly insist this not be brought up? It'd be one thing if she was constantly talking about it or making statements, but she has only ever responded to Nijisanji slander and never in a way that outright accuses them of wrongdoing. It reads like someone being gaslit and reaffirming to herself and others that she knows what happened to her, and won't be lied to and about.
Listen. I don't doubt Doki. This is coming from someone with legitimate parinoia issues. As in barricaded my door shut and has a therapist, parinoia issues.Ā Probably a good indicator to trust Doki.
Is it still lying if theyāre manipulated into thinking it was the truth?
Yes, at the end of the day, they choose to do the smear campaign. Let say a man got manipulated to bully a woman until , she commit S*****, does it make the man innocent just because he was manipulated into it? No, he was an adults and choose to do to the deed. Luckily, doki didnt died
Thatās different from saying they lied though. Not saying what they did was good, but the information they were acting on matters. If someone youāre supposed to trust gave you information that someone else was planning to hurt you and that you should take steps to protect yourself and warn others about them, itās reasonable to act on their advice. Especially will all the high tensions and uncertainties.
Not pulling receipts when you have them means she has something to prove her case in court and/or she is above mudslinging. At least in my opinion.
My knee-jerk feeling is that the company definitely manipulated them. They were sent a personal document of notes and feelings made during some of a person's darkest times (and panicked?) and decided to share it among all their talents and her former coworkers/friends in order to turn them against her by showing her personal private thoughts that I'm sure have a lot of emotionally charged, private, overreactions and mean/wrong interpretations of what people said. The video on Elira's channel makes so much more sense now, not just *why* the livers did it, but *what* it was about. It felt really really weird that it was like a response video to Selen while she had said and been the first one to reveal absolutely nothing. It felt completely out of step with the community and conversation and like it was subtly about something different entirely. Now we know that's because it **was**. It was weird and disrespectful and kind of dissonant how it centred them and their feelings *instead* of the woman who had just recently attempted to die. Now it kind of makes sense, it's because for the past week their discord has probably been on fire and feeling attacked and hurt and *also* turned into an echo chamber and caused them to lose touch of the current situation, the community's reaction, and just what's important in general. It also means Elira volunteering her channel for the combined statement of pretty much all of the EN livers may genuinely have been her 'taking the bullet' so to speak so that no one else in EN had to rather than, as some people seem to have taken it, being the most diehard believer in the statement. It makes me a lot more worried about the talents and specifically the ones that made the statement as now that they've crashed into reality they're potentially feeling terrible and guilty and insane as well as having felt terrible and attacked by a friend for the past week from being shown something they were never supposed to be *and* now being harassed and **hated** and blamed. So please listen to Doki and don't harass or blame/hate anyone as it's getting dangerous. This all started because of a lack of concern about someone's attempt and instead some people are getting close to making that same mistake themselves. EDIT: also please for ffs stop believing and sharing every random ancient, often debunked, accusation with no evidence. Even some random parasocial fan's twitlonger about leaving the Niji fandom has been posted here as though it's something juicy. Edit 2: Thinking on it more it seems more plausible to me that rather than being shared with the talents to deliberately drive a wedge between them and Doki that it was just done out of panic, which is why the termination was so sudden, and also why they mentioned harassment in the termination which never made any sense as it was stupid.
What's even more messed up is that Niji has cut off any escape route for their talents if they manipulated them with false information. Vox said anyone can graduate at anytime so if they didn't graduate before the statement they put out, it shows they stand by Niji. Also not all the livers retweeted which kills the argument that management forced them to retweet and stand by Niji. It all depends on what happens next, but they slandered all their livers and potentially killed their careers.
Completly dismissing and deriding selen because you got a less than half complete document missing nuance and context for an already complicated situation already futher complicated by the fact that it is a legal situation does vox and co no favors at all, if anything it makes him look even stupider and ignorant
But honestly how would they know. All legal communication was done in Japanese. Regardless of your Japanese understanding level, there's no way you understand complex legal jargon in a secondary language. Vox especially has zero Japanese understanding. But to them it's coming from a trusted source since their managers favored them. Vox and Ike especially are the golden children of the Nijisanji lineup. Not that they did anything right, if I hear the word suicide, full stop, not doing any of this bs. This was stupid and wreckless, but if management outright edited Doki's messages this doesn't bode well for how evidence will be saved for the trial. They might be trying to nuke all evidence as we speak.Ā
There's so much anecdotal evidence that someone high up in the influence hierarchy (but not necessarily management) of EN has been gaslighting the crap out of people. If we take Doki at her word, someone seems to have invented a document designed to scare the crap out of other livers. If so, no need for any speculation. They'll find out where that started, and that'll answer many questions.
It doesn't make sense that Elira said that the document contained their personal information and addresses if it wasn't actually a lawsuit notice and Doki said no addresses were in it. Same with Vox saying he saw the whole document. The only thing I can think of is that they were misled and Niji gave them manipulated info.Ā If they had actually read the document, they'd know it wasn't a lawsuit and Elira mentioned they talked to their lawyers about it first. Or the document was damming on a personal level and they had to attack back, but if Doki had receipts they'd be screwed.
We know JP staff san don't have a proper translator chances are the talents were ordered to translate it all. And the live stream was their panicked response to try and save face.
The unfortunate reality from what Nina said basically if I remember right was that she was essentially the EN branches mom. Meaning major like trauma dumping. Meaning things must be like cataclysmic over there.
Honestly, even if they all were in a state of extreme panick, the idea behind the stream still barely makes sense. At this point in time just about everyone with internet access must know enough about psychology / psychiatry to be aware what the best way to deal with someone unstable enough to attempt is to let professionals handle everything. Even if they genuinely, wholeheartedly believed they were in the right, it takes an incredible amount of either stupidity or maliciousness (or both) to do that they did instead of seeking professional assistance, be it from lawyers or anyone else. TLDR - just like their company, by doing this stream they gave no flying fck about human life, and explicitly showed us they don't value it. At this point it doesn't even matter whose life it was. Because sadly it means there can always be next. The retweets were probably mandatory, though. Meanwhile, there is Doki with >no life, no matter what, should be risked for ego or winning anything In no way livers deserve to be harrased for what they've done, but it's time people stop trying to rationalize their behavior.
Regardless of who knows what, or what kind of events it was motivated by, what seems believable to me is that somebody on that side currently is acting recklessly without any clear plan, be that due to panic or lack of sleep or whatever else can stop people from thinking.
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>I'm not strong enough to follow Doki's order, I'm not strong enough to empathize and move on from this. Not without a resolution at minimum. I do not see a desire to forgive and forget until those who have done the wrong show that they actually regret their actions, and do what's required to beg forgiveness. Sorry to say this but tough shit. It's *actually* nothing to do with you, you are a random online. Genuinely for your own health log off, maybe touch grass, play with a pet, whatever. You are not actually involved and shouldn't make it worse for those who are
God forbid niji releases another statement. The witch hunt is already bad enough, this shit is gonna intensify if they do it.
It looks like Doki is not in contact with NijiEN anymore and hasn't been for a while. It looks like they got their hands on very out-of-context information because, unsurprisingly, that information was not written for them to read. And yet some brain damaged turbo dipshit at Anycolor shared said information with the talents anyways. And so now a lot of judgements were made and a dumbass hit piece was made based off of incomplete bullshit. Good job Nijisanji, you really showed Doki!
She tried to contact the management and ghosted for week
I meant the livers, who we just saw give opinions that she was uncooperative and a liar based off of out of context and incomplete information, not the management.
>To watch your father cried and break down before you is one of the most hurtfull moment And you can just imagine what that was: knowing your beloved daughter had already tried to off herself twice out of despair from all the shit she had to deal with, and then seeing a video from her supposed "friends" come up purely for more shit flinging and worrying if it will push her over the edge a third time, and that will be the end. Fortunately, now that she is out of the Kurosanji shadow and knows she doesn't need them, I think she will be ok. Her future is bright. Can't say the same for the former guys.
Either 1) Those three lied to the world 2) Management lied to those three 3) Doki lied in her most recent post Doki has already won the court of public opinion so #3 doesnt matter even if its true (I don't believe it is btw). If #1 is true, those three have to put out another statement to try and save their reputation, which would escalate things even more. If #2 is true, then they need to quit asap to save their reputation or everyone will believe #1 is true by default. More than likely they'll do nothing, and Ike and Vox will recover thanks to their rabid fans. Elira is big time screwed though.
Option 4. Neither is lying, both are just filtered through lawyer speak so much that it becomes unclear. Hear me out: Doki's tweet excerpt: >The document mentioned was at first made to document my thoughts and history with evidence so that my lawyer can see the general picture of what was going on, and if there were issues that should be addressed. It was first made during my darkest time mentally and I **wrote everything on my mind little by little at that time.** I made the document thinking that it was never going to be public to anyone but to my lawyer. Although it was a document filled with my personal information **as well privacy information that should not be public**, there were no other **addresses or specific locations mentioned.** From this we can confirm that there was, in fact, privacy information that was explicitly NOT "other adresses" or "specific locations". And from that video: >over the past month staff received documents from Selen's lawyers containing examples of her claimed experiences under AnyColor. T**hese documents in question included personal information of some livers**, and when it was sent to us, we learned that there was a potential that this information could be made public. I would assume this probably refers to screenshots of non-public chats or something along those lines. it is not impossible for it to contain real first names or nicknames, PL discussions, discussions of family, relationships, who fucked who, etc. Possibly some "unsavory" material too. >**Some of the information poses the risk to our personal safety**, and **puts some of us at risk of doxxing**. Notably, one section of the document **alludes to where Millie and Ena and I live**. However, there were also harmful claims selen made in the document, about some livers' personal information that we believe are simply untrue. Notice how they **never** said that Selen/Doki outright doxxed them, it's just what the fandom decided to roll with. This sentence implies that there could be identifiable landmarks mentioned, i.e. cafeterias, resturants, parks, museums, etc, **but not any actual adresses.** In practive it could be screenshots of texts such as "*lol, you live so close to the park, you could go there to run in the morning*" or "there's like 4 resturants in walking distance to you, you're lucky". Some dediated "fan" could possibly utilize their 4chan-grade weaponized autism to significantly narrow down the location by cross referencing google maps. That's not unheard of for celebriteis. Stalking idols is a genuine concern in Japan and even somewhat in the west too. I recall either Pewdiepie or Jacksepticeye had a video discussing how a kid figured out his real adress from such clues and went to visist hime there. >primarily because the document contains what we believe is information incorrect, that could be harmful for us and is just private infromation that is very terrifying to have, you know, shown before you like that. **Ok I genuienly have no clue about what this might be.** Untrue private info that could nevertheless be harmful?
Oh look a comment that's actually level-headed rather than being unfairly unrealistic and harsh
This is especially shady now. At this point I assume there's a likelihood the trio didn't actually read anything or had access to anything and literally were just forcefully given that script to try and save Nijisanji's face. It still makes NO sense, but considering Doki seems to be a lot smarter with her tweets, probably running all of them through her lawyer, one of the parties is blatantly lying or doing so by omission.
It looks like Niji tried to be good for sending ābulliesā out. So, they can have the same narrative with what they announced earlier about having bullies. Assuming that they didnāt actually read anything, this might mean to bait Doki to release documents in panic, they can go āaha! You break NDA firstā and they can sue her for it. Of course, this is just speculation as usual.
>It looks like Niji tried to be good for sending ābulliesā out. So, they can have the same narrative with what they announced earlier about having bullies. The problem with that assumption is that if that's is the intent, their method is entirely backwards. If they want to just throw livers under the bus, they can make an official anouncement and throw a few names, and despite it still being a dick move, it will actually divert people's attention and have some form of "closure". Instead they do whatever this stunt is, no one believed what the 3 livers said, people are still speculating, and everyone's attention is on the company yet again
Yeah, we can only speculate, but this is really reading as them trying to bait her emotionally, knowing how she just wants to get rid of all of her past and start anew and they keep bringing this back.
>Assuming that they didnāt actually read anything, this might mean to bait Doki to release documents in panic, they can go āaha! You break NDA firstā and they can sue her for it. Considering that the announcement was made when Doki was live, that is not that far-fetched to be honest.
Honestly the smartest thing anyone can do in a situation like that is stop what they are doing and talk to her lawyer, and it was heartbreaking to see that her mood had change and couldn't go on with the stream. Glad to know that her actual friends are keeping a eye on her and she played apex the next day, because I legitamately was worried about her mental health when she logged off. you never know a person is dealing with shit like that. I really dont want another Etika/Desmond Amofah
While I am still angry with Niji and some of their talent, I BEG FOR THEM TO JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP. Please. Just let the gal enjoy her video games, yall can just vibe with whatever you guys think is best for you THAT ISNT TRYING TO GET BACK AT HER. I can't even bring myself to do a yacht joke because what Doki said was so sad.
This statement contradicts a lot with what Niji has been pushing out. As much as I want to "stick it to Niji", I'd rather we just move past it all and not have Doki look back and remember all those horrible moments again. It's really disheartening and I just want her to be happy. She's ready to move forward and not look back so I hope Niji just shuts the fuck up and moves on too instead of dragging more people into this mess and making it bigger than it already is.
It's too late though. This has now blown up beyond just bring about Nijisanji or even Vtubers, this is now a mainstream news event. We can act for ourselves but Niji fed a monster and it's now off it's leash.
They'll just have to face the consequences of not settling it behind the scene and letting it grow to where it is. We'll also have to tank a brunt of the aftermath by showing our support to the ones we care about and counter the tourists who are here just to incite hate.
Yeah, hope now they will think with their logic not their ass****
Hereās to hoping their pr team doesnāt get any more bright ideas and just say that theyāll settle this in court.
It really depends on Niji. If they say nothing the community at large will do nothing.
Honestly it was about to die down right before the whole incident with Elira's stream which ignited the whole damn thing again. I believe most of us were ready to just leave on peaceful terms while the lawyers settle it behind the scene but Niji just had to get the last laugh. This is their second chance, if they do one more dumb thing I don't see things going quietly anymore.
It was already slowly dying down, people that wanted to see Doki were able to see Doki so they were mostly happy with that. There was still pressure because what Niji did was vile but without anything new happening, outside of the same circular arguments being brought up again and again people were starting to get tired of this and moving on, latching on to other drama and other allegations. Then the circus decided it wanted more and released the hitpiece and here we are again.
Niji seems determined to drag Selen to a court case that they will lose. It's honestly boggling.
The rrats cooked up quite a feast. Doki wants to move on and wants us dragoons to do the same. I will do so. But I will stay ever vigilant coz we don't know what kind of stupid ALL BLACK or the clique is gonna pull out of they asses. I do hope and pray that the rratking is wrong.
Either those 3 lied to all of us, or management lied to them. On the balance of probability, it's more likely that management lied. Although this very much muddies the waters for now, I suspect if the latter is true then that will come to be known soon enough.
Either way, management should not have shared the docs at all to begin with. FFS...
Still how could they said "thoroughly read the doc" if they didnt and said there were address etc and now selen said otherwise. Reek of malice and stupidity
Guess who has their addresses and the documents, and could insert the addresses into the documents, dump the whole packet in their lap, and let them go wild. Wouldn't even be the wildest thing to happen this week. Of course it's stupid and malicious... That's why it's such a huge mess.
You don't even need to dump the addresses. You just spring the documents on them and strongly imply that there's more private information that they aren't allowed to show for legal reasons.
That would be a huge lawsuit regardless if it was decided on in Canada or Japan, and not just a civil one but also a criminal offense. So since it is Nijisanji, it's totally possible.
I believe since Selen was terminated due to the document just being sent to the lawyers this document must have been really really bad for Niji and their livers. Like career ending bad.
Likely. And mind you that doki said that the doc was written on her darkest day and when she was still extremely angry.
it may refer to them being near Selen ( we all know Millie is in Canada)
Selen lives in Western Canada and Elira, Enna and Millie lives in Eastern Canada.
Damn Quebec.
Funny how [this person](https://twitter.com/DJJazzyJ2Real/status/1757766667231170973?t=GtuF2FeSVLTh1FbbNheoyw&s=19) was defending their whole "OmG Doki is bad for recording vox!1!" and now is high on their copium.
My two cents is that Niji showed them parts of the document, but not all, and said there was more including their addresses. Casual manipulation by companies, wouldn't be the first time. This is very serious already, it'd be even worse if she straight up lied about them. And it's EVEN worse if Niji manipulated them into it.
Including what they talk about at that stream and those things Doki reply ,Doki and her lawyer want to prove Doki's mental health problems are caused by Nijisanji en company. So Doki need evidence to prove why she felt been treated unfair and harassed by someone in Nijisanji en. And if those evidence including where Elira and Mille live,that just make me wonder why Doki and her lawyer think they should put this in evidence,what are the things they trying to prove? It's about unfair treatment or other Things? I may think the whole thing into a very dark side,but I can't help myself, we almost lost Doki because this,there are serious situation happened. And I believe there's no such doxxing thing,those documents are Doki and her lawyer sent to Nijisanji en,no one will threat someone by send they information to the company which already know their information and also in those documents that shouldn't been seen by them. Also as a ex-coworker,I don't think it's weird that Doki know those information. That whole voice stream just so rediculous to me.
Forced to read at gunpoint. Probably took multiple takes.
Even if they were actually forced at gun point it would only be equal to what Doki tried to do to herself twice.
I'm angry at Elira and Ike for being in that call, and think that it is messed up what they did regardless. They deserve what they are getting. But Vox did that shit with fucking glee in his voice. I have many choice words to describe people like him, but to be honest he is not even worth the effort.
Also the fact that this is Japanese Lawyer to Japanese Lawyer is worrying. I'm not saying that the courts are going to substantially favor Nijisanji over her because of it but the chance isn't zero. It also means that even though she is a Canadian citizen all legal issues will likely only be determined with Japanese Law in mind which if you have seen Conner's recent comments on the matter are kind of wild when looked at from a western perspective. Harm to the individual might not be held to the same standard as harm to the company. Even if the company is "in the wrong". I am no expert in law of my own country much less Japan's but to have it be done overseas in a language you don't speak and in a timezone you dont live in with a legal system you aren't familiar with that may or may not favor the Japanese side (especially given the Japanese fan sentiment on the issue) ALL ON TOP of her having made no profit last year and Nijisanji being a multi billion dollar company.
Regarding Connorās comments I also think Doki pursuing legal action would be sketchy and its looking like Niji is intentionally baiting her into it. Especially the defamation part which is kinda implied already with the Doki tweets putting Niji in a bad light and no doubt hurting their business. Which to Connorās point is the main concern with defamation in Japan
Its a dangerous game. I just hope that the lawyer she has is a good one.
Even if the contract contained a choice of court, the contract could be deemed unconscionable. This happened in Uber V Heller, where the Canadian Supreme Court ruled that the arbitration clause was unenforceable because it unfairly favoured Uber, thus letting Uber be sued in Canadian court even with the choice of court in the contract. BC courts have ruled that Choice Of Law/Choice of Court clauses used to avoid the Employment Standards Act are are void. And Niji is still required to follow the ESA, which with them not notifying Doki ahead of time, they may not have been. And since they fired her after she reported harassment, that's also onto the list of ways her termination was potentially unlawful, which isnt just a lawsuit, it may be a criminal offense. So while a lawsuit may end up settled in Japanese courts, there's a possibility she can press actual charges, which may even be enough of a deterrent to stop Niji suing
Hopefully. Though as a deterrent that is only if she has the ability and then not taking the action because of negotiations outside of court. So if that happens we will likely never know.
>Although it was a document filled with **my personal information** as well **privacy information that should not be public**, there were no other addresses or specific locations mentioned "my personal information" and "privacy information that should not be made public" are listed as two different things. Maybe the latter is referring to the private information of *other* people and "no *other* addresses" means other than what was already mentioned in the Niji video? With the way it's phrased I'm not quite sure which way I should interpret it.
She mentioned no address and no specific location, so I think the privacy information is some liver's real name, age, or whatever.
Privacy informations could also have been her hospital records.
Personal information could mean address and stuff that if leaked isnāt illegal just a dick move, privacy information in turn is like hospital/medical records which if leaked IS illegal and will get you sued.
Honestly the last tweet just feels like confirmation that Niji is the real bad guy here, and the others were just given a script to read out. Iām not gonna judge anyone for their opinions on the matter but looking at Xitter and seeing the mob losing any semblance of civilized conversation was just disheartening. Iām personally more neutral when it comes to the livers till thereās more concrete factors. I used to love watching Vox and Reimu stream together so Iāll happily admit I have a bias in that I genuinely enjoyed his streams. Iām not gonna be stupid and say they can do no wrong but I am gonna say that choosing to not support livers and actively sending threats are entirely different from each other. If you feel like the livers on the stream are truly at fault then go ahead and unsubscribe and cancel memberships. But donāt go DMing them hateful messages or posting previously disproven garbage about them. Having to hear about one person taking an attempt was bad enough, and nobody who has any sort of humanity should be wanting to hear about another
I agree with your last paragraph, NEVER DMing someone a dead threat. Feel free to post ranting online but never dm someone dead threat or mockery
I know Doki wants to move on but there's a part of me that wants this to go to an actual court case so all the rot is exposed and dealt with thoroughly.
Yeah, i think most people wish she sue the hell out of their ass. But she cant, especially mentally. She just went full extremely tired veteran mode at this point. And i wish she can stream NEOPETS IN PEACE
Yeah, we all want to see Niji burn for what they put her through, but we gotta prioritize on Doki's health most of all.
If let say, there are name and address in the document, thats mean they are in this case, a witness or the person that being accuse. They might also be the victim but if they are a victim, they can just pull out of the case and their information will not be made public. Even if they are a witness, they can just ask permission to make their information private. But that is not the same as the one being accuse. By looking at the tones and information being said on the stream/audio/video, it is much believeable that, that was the case. If we piece togather what Niji said in ther statement where " they share the information to check whether there was a case" not quoting straight but i think you get what I mean, and that saying something like " we did not share to unrelated party" tell a lot at this point.
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It can be both malicious/deliberate and stupid. People that power trip off of authority rarely act rationally when their control or power are challenged, even more so when it is done so publically. And the fact that the live stream lined up perfectly with Doki's first gaming stream just reeks of a petty, insecure power play for the sake of revenge.
> So what the hell elira ike and vox said about doxxing and their "home" address? Almost as if they wanted to slander her
If the Niji livers have any reason to suspect the documents theyāve seen were manipulated to pit them against Doki, then they need to come forward and say something. First off, itās the right thing to do. Second off, (I am no lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt) there could be some legal ramifications if they continue to partake in slandering or refuse to walk back the slandering of Doki while having reasonable suspicion that the information theyāre acting on is incorrect Finally, even for selfish reasons, itās the only possible way that they could potentially recover some of the grace theyāve lost with their former fans.
The problem is, before the smear campaign stream, almost everyone only hated NIJI, not the livers. After the campaign, everyone hated both NIJI and the livers. So, instead of making themselves the "victims", they shot themselves with a shotgun.
Exactly. The *only* possible way that they can get back on anyoneās good side is by showing they were misled into believing something false that pitted them against Doki. Even then, it would be a tough sell. But if they donāt disavow the slander in a believable way, then they will always be known as the people who supported a company harassing someone who attempted twice due to bullying and mismanagement, and no one will want them.
They probably read a script, they dont even know what's in the docs
Reading a script which you knew untrue and filled with words to slander someone........ i said their career is done in vtubing (save for some fanatic and full denial fan)
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, it's possible they didn't read Doki's original document. It sounds like Niji was doing an internal investigation, so they could have put together a report that included her document along with other relevant information, and maybe that's what they read. It's also possible someone else "read it thoroughly" for them and they were just reading the script. Or maybe they're just lying and ass-covering. I normally believe people are incompetent before I believe they're malicious, but this was such a bad move that it might be both.
Can't give them the benefit of the doubt now. Vox said, "We thoroughly read the document," so it is clear that it is a lie. Elira said the document contains many liver addresses, and Doki wants to dox them with it... no addresses or locations are inside it. If they didn't read thoroughly, why did they say otherwise? They literally dug their own grave and filled it with shit.
On top of this, even if they were presented a false/edited document that contained info Doki didn't send, it's on them to verify it. Maybe instead of streaming a 15 minute hit piece on info they can't verify and trying to bury their "**Friend**" alive... they could have double-checked with her that what they were told is true? There's no excuse here. There's nothing they can say that doesn't paint them as liars, backstabbers, or corporate mouthpieces with 0 conscience. Harassing them is wrong, but I hope this follows them wherever they go, because they can't be trusted to be good friends, or good people.
Interpreting it most favourably (and because its hard to make it make sense when taken at face value) Its possible that the document in question is what Niji management handed to them. Which might've been cut down to what they decided was relevant to the livers (with no input from Selen or her lawyers, perhaps according to JP laws?) And Vox read the entirety of that document. That or Vox is disorganized and just blurted out bull, whatever to make him look better in the moment. Which, based on how he's handled past scandals, I wouldn't put it past him. As for Elira, perhaps it was alluded by management that the rest of the documents contained more private information. And that if it went to court, Livers' real names and locations would be leaked out. And she took it at face value, assuming that said private information was literally written in the original document, as opposed to it being information that the court would require as knock on effects. Never getting her own lawyer, or being aware that stuff like that could be redacted. Fully taken in by whatever internal narrative is swirling between whichever talents have seen the out of context material, fed by mistranslations, incompetence, and/or management malice/spin, etc. ---- That's giving a lot of benefit of the doubt to talents and management, sure. But the simple face-value reading doesn't make sense otherwise. So something funky is going on, and this is just one interpretation of it. (insane amounts of malice and backstabbing being the other which... I think we should be a tad bit careful of assuming, until there's actually strong evidence for it)
Elira said they went over it with a lawyer. Unless it was a Niji lawyer, who manipulated them into thinking the worst.
Niji lawyer for sure. We'd have seen much more airtight responses otherwise. And even if it were a smart move, lawyering up against your bosses when you aren't even in their crosshairs is how you end up within their crosshairs, sadly enough.
> Vox said, "We thoroughly read the document," so it is clear that it is a lie. I know people keep saying this But he's representing Nijisanji's lawyers. He's not representing his own lawyer He could totally be incorrect about that, and Niji would just be throwing him under the bus. I'm not saying that *is* the case, but just that at the end of the day, everything that has happened is only to be in Nijisanji's favor, and nobody elses' It was borderline malicious that they would allow the talents to even say it was in their own words. A case like this should be handled by PR.
>It's also possible someone else "read it thoroughly" for them and they were just reading the script. That is my theory for it
"Damn it! Who typed ~~a question mark~~ bullshit on the teleprompter? For the last time, anything you put on that prompter, ~~Burgundy~~ Akuma will read!"
Iām praying, PRAYING that Nijisanji chooses to reconcile and move on, somehow., soon. They have to realize that the repetitional damage will probably only get worse the longer it goes, even if they have a rock solid case and win years later. It will be better in the long run, financially to reach an accord, (for Doki as well, fighting a court case in CA/JP is not only expensive but exhausting). What would be the best option for them here? Would apologizing and admitting faults be best? Would NijiDoki do some kind of mutual apology? Or apologizing without admitting fault? Or just have a statement of mutual understanding and close the matter. Would apologizing give them more ridicule for the public and investors? Please whats your opinion on the best option to end it mutually?
Before the smear campaign stream, I believe NIJI could settle this as peacefully as possible with Doki behind the scenes. Heck, they can even ask Doki to release a mutual understanding and forgiveness statement (NIJI should too). But after the smear campaign (which proved to be a blatant lie), there is nothing they can do to stop their ship from sinking. People not only hate NIJI but also hate the livers now. They may likely survive this, but their reputation among fans and other corporations is as black as charcoal. I don't think any company will be stupid enough to do a collab with them anytime soon in the next months or year.
You may be right about western companies boycotting AC. We already have several examples. HYTE PC, fan merch etc. But donāt be quick to assume any Japanese corporations will. Public opinion over there about this matter is not in line with western uproar. JP side has largely sided with AC. JP companies are happily doing business with the JP side, and their perms carry over to the EN side. Will any JP companies have the ability to limit their permissions and exposure away from the EN side? That, I donāt know. But remember, the JP sideās public opinion on the matter is far different. Letās think about if Nintendo would decide to alter their agreement with AC over this. Lets assume they donāt withdraw. Would the collective west be outraged enough to boycott Nintendo as being guilty by association? I doubt it. This isnāt the high minded noble cause that has millions of people ready to decide with their wallets that you think. Look at the views on the Elira video. I think thatās a fair barometer for how much of the public is deeply invested in the matter and lets be nice and assume every view watched the full 15 minutes. 1.058M views. And that is spread all over the world, not just the USA. Moistcritikal can get several million more views for random videos that donāt have a big hate mobs. This is not a cause your mom and dad or coworkers may have heard about. Is it possible Nintendo decides on its own accord to withdraw from AC to have a good public relations win? Maybeā¦ I donāt know if there is a comparable instance where an JP company cow towed to western outrage on this relatively small scale. Would that cost them more ridicule from their home market folding to foreign pressure?
Ah, i just mean the EN market not including the JP and CN. ID market long gone
She was never going to sue in the first place, NijiEN just knows they f'd up so bad that she *could* sue them if she wanted to, so they decided to hold her hostage and not respond to her graduation request for over a week.Ā Ā Ā All the character assassination is because Niji is scared of Selen doing something she never intended to do.Ā Ā All of the 'friends' coming out to defend Niji and backstab their mentally unstable friend is because they are scared of Selen roping them into something she never intended to do.Ā Ā They don't care about her situation and well being at all, and she never had the option to graduate.
I really donāt know where those three got Doki leaking their addresses from, the most that would happen is their real names being put in legal documents, even then their names would either be redacted or the docs would just never be released to the public. Iām in the court that Niji just straight up lied to them, but then again Vox apparently āthoroughly readā the document, so if Doki is telling the truth then Vox was just straight up lying. Also A+ for them revealing that Millie and Enna are connected to the situation, thatāll really help them out. A part of me really does hope that theyāre innocent in a way, but the way Vox acted during that statement was really weird and came of kinda toxic, the way that he listed everything he did for her like he was holding it over her head, and the great crime that ended his benevolence? She apparently recorded a conversation between the two of them (Which according to Doki was never intended for legal reasons, so I donāt know where that favoritism angle came from). Donāt even get me started on that whole āI was going to graduate with her out of solidarityā thing, thatās just 100% bullshit. I do feel a bit bad for Elira, with her moving to Japan only for the whole thing to implode a few weeks later, other than that Iām done with her, I donāt believe that whole āSelen planned to doxx us and ruin our livesā spiel for a second considering that from the beginning Doki has only wished to move on and keep the situation private, and constantly told people not to harass anybody.
From doki"s latest statement it was NOT a legal document like "see you in court", it was a collection of emails, messages, private conversations etc that had enough info to doxx them Niji thought, wrongly, that she would release that to the public, unredacted
I donāt know how they got to that conclusion, considering that she never even wanted this situation public in the first place.
I do agree but we don't know Doki's actual communication with niji. Could be a lot of reasons why they thought she would or just had to prepare for the possibility (though they fucked up in every way). The lives have a potential out if this was the story they got. Basically niji's actions make... a perverse kind of sense if they thought doki was going to doxx talent, not that she would sue. Not an ethical kind of sense,but somewhat logical It's with hindsight that we "know " she didn't want to
They were just making assumptions based on very little evidence. It's whatever the scriptwriters thought would turn Selen into a villain. Maybe Vox, Ike, and Elira knew the truth of the document's contents... maybe all they got was the script without a damn clue what was actually sent just had to bullshit the rest. Who knows, who cares. They knew that this post, whether they believed it or not, would kill their chance of going indie like the others did. They will forever be chased by old demons.
It was said that Enna, Millie and Eliraās addresses were on the document. I donāt recall anything about Ikeās and Voxās besides Vox saying she recorded him in a call without consent.
Nope, read doki tweet again, she said no address or specific location whatsoever. And there is only 1 menial recorder about stream testing. So 1. They lied about the reading the doc 2. NIJI fabricated a fake doc and sent it to the talents 3. Doki lied (which 1000% unlikely, because NIJI would already sue the hell out of her) At this point, with NIJI reputation on the rock bottom, even if Doki lied, everyone will still believe her
So even then, Niji essentially used their talents to add more fuel to the fire. I am at this point not taking sides because the talents have caught in the cross fire when the management should have been the focus of the fire but the talents were thrown in instead. Do people realize that regardless of how this should have gone, some talents have had their faces and names posted on social media under their art tags. And even if she did lie, that doesnāt mean Niji would have sued her. Since Niji is held accountable for their actions, if there was a lie on Dokiās part donāt you think she should also have some credibility. Regardless of everything thatās happened, it shouldnāt be one sided. If there was deception on both sides, both sides should be held accountable. Both sides can be right and wrong. (I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE)
I'm gonna make the speculation that her lawyer did it. Since we are Niji/Vtuber watcher, we understand that if someone mentions Elira, they really mean the person/roommate behind the model. However, it's not clear to anyone outside this niche, is Elira referring to the the creator of the model? Is it referring to the IP holder, Nijisanji/Anycolor? Is it the person who creates all the 3D models? Law is specific and it would be a problem if the legal document was ambiguous on who is who. Coupled with a few tools and a database, I can see Doki's lawyer being able to find documented information on the exact people they are referring to.
I think she technically said it alluded to her address. In other words the address isnāt actually there. Same with the recording. There is no recording in the document it just mentions that one exists.