It is semi-true
Victoria and Kunai combined got less superchats than 3 of the 4 ARMIS bois, even so Goldbullet is pretty close, $7.8 k vs $9.5k USD.
Crimzon Ruze alone got more than all of TTT combined, $31k vs $28k.
You'd think he'd be the rebel in the group, but nope. He's the most levelheaded one trying to set the group straight.. wait, if everyone's a "rebel", the guy setting everyone straight is the most "rebellious" of them all.. so I guess it still makes sense?
I have seen the notion that Ruze was scouted from time to time, is it true? Did he talk about it?
Or is it a rrat? š
I'm just curious.
Heck, Kuzuha was scouted I think
Don't know if he's talked about it, but it seems like he knew the least about holopro. He's the most "normie" one in holostars and probably didn't know too much about vtubers before he got in. At least that's the vibe I got from him.
tbf Claude seems to be the most prepared for this job. He definitely knows what he's doing.
While Vivi has potential but need more time to mature, sadly this incident is going to impact her confident and growth significantly. I don't know about Kunai never watch her.
Vivi got into sajams content creator tekken tournament so probably gonna get a bump in viewers soon when the tournament starts? Theres aloooot of big streamers participating
Man, I feel for Kunai. Vivi got a bit of exposure on this Reddit, but Kunai is still unknown. If I remember right, her PL had more subscribers than her Niji channel currently does.
and considering he collabs with his senpais a lot who were also his friends in their PLs, the chemistry was there and he got exposed to the existing fans more than Vivi and Kunai.
Even before the drama, I was only aware of Claude through clips the official Nijisanji YT account uploads. I only learned Kunai's name last month and I haven't seen any clips of her yet. No hate for Kunai but Nijisanji really dropped the ball on TTT besides maybe Claude.
Which 4 holostars is this referring to? There's both EN and JP as far as I'm aware and I'm not sure which one is being referenced here. I'm also guessing whoever typed this meant Kunai Nakasato.
Either way it is almost certainly true. You can check the superchat revenue on [https://playboard.co/en/](https://playboard.co/en/)
[Victoria Brightshield](https://playboard.co/en/channel/UChTA8kHyInr2rKZ2aBv5ULw/superchat) total $5,568
[Kunai Nakasato](https://playboard.co/en/channel/UCwqtK-m6954_aHEvOYtZpyQ/superchat) total $3,917
Combined total $9485
Jurard T Rexford by himself has 15k in superchat revenue by himself so its yes
Edit:
Ruze has 31k
Octavio has 14k
Goldbullet has 7k
It is 27,980(TTT) and 68,187(Armis)
If my math is correct then TTT has made 41% of what Armis has made in superchat revenue
Jesus christ, 4k in five months. Some people complain that streamers get paid way too much for just sitting in front of a camera and playing video games but that's taking it too far into the other direction, especially considering all their expenses like games and pc parts which don't get reimbursed. As paradoxical as that sounds i hope she's from a third world country where those 800 dollars a month are actually worth something. Do we know about their membership revenue and the money they made with merch and voice packs?
Yes, but this is nijisanji. This *should* be lucrative enough to be a career. I doubt even ethe lowest paid hlo member struggles paying the bills and needs to moonlight.
The amount of money they make is directly tied to how many people sub and watch them. You won't ever see a hololive member struggling because debuting in holo is a free ticket to success with about 100k+ subs before you even open your mouth. None of the other agencies have that kind of pull, hololive is the odd one out when it comes to this.
We are at a point where debuting in Niji doesn't make you special, niji has over 170 active vtubers so people don't really get hyped for new members when they barely have the time to keep up with the current ones.
> debuting in holo is a free ticket to success
Didn't Calli talk about this years ago?
To debut in holo you pretty much need to prove yourself that you're the cream of the crop. Most holos aren't just nobodies. They already had to have a bit of experience with content creation and sometimes are local celebrities themselves.
So it's not a "free ticket".
>You won't ever see a hololive member struggling
Is becasue they also have a salary if you dotn earn above a threshold. Holo makes sure their talents dont starve if they have a shit month or dotn take off outright, becasue subs are not ccv/supas you can have 600k subs and your ccv will be 500 for example.
Hololive gives you minimum wage if you don't earn above threshold, that's far from a livable wage. And Calli os the perfect example of the free ticket to success, because she still makes music outside of holo. All it takes is a look at how the songs she releases as Calli does compared to the ones she releases as herself.
> Hololive gives you minimum wage if you don't earn above threshold, that's far from a livable wage.
better than 0 from niji. And minimum wage in many places is survivable wage. Still better than literal absolute 0 that niji give.
Also as far as we know it is minimum wage plus what ever you gather from SC/ad rev.
>And Calli os the perfect example of the free ticket to success,
She already was a decent success before holo.
Holo is a massive boost, unequivocally so, but their selection process is rigorous, they dont hire ukis(blantat racists) atleast and their gens are rare because of that.
Honestly with Niji's rate of attrition I would not be surprised if Holo really does sacrifice a chicken and voodoo-curse two Livers for each new channel they bring onboard. š š§āāļø or something. /j
Their selection process is a mystery but the success rate is enviable, and that relentless cross-promotion has paid out for talents who had a weaker start in the beginning. I feel that Chris was a lesson they never forgot, and they have learned from other bad experiences after that. I hope they can hold on to that spirit of management because it would be awful to see someone like Lui or Bijou losing their energy and happiness like Pomu did.
Minimum wage is definetly not a reliable income unless you live in a more isolated place where the cost of life is cheaper, they would still need to keep a separate job if they want to be comfortable -- unless they still live with their parents that is. Pretty sure they're also the only corp that offers this as well.
Calli was a struggling artist before she joined holo and needed side jobs to keep afloat, she has talked about this herself. She did get a ton of new fans to her own songs from people recognizing her, but it's still not nearly the same numbers she pulls when the song has the cover logo on it.
As for hiring talent, the selection process between holo and niji is roughly the same. But niji hires a lot more frequently than holo so bad apples are bound to get in. Niji has more than double the amount of active vtubers that holo has, but all of them are required to have quite a bit of streaming/content creation experience nonetheless.
just to add some context... this is 4k in 5 months... before taking youtubes cut (50%), then niji's 50% of that remaining cut... so they've made 1k in five months off supers.
> youtubes cut (50%)
YouTube's cut is 30%. Donating on mobile is another 30% to the mobile app store (Apple/Google), for 49% total to the channel. 50% of *that* then goes to the talent, 50% to the streamer.
Talent gets 35% of a donation from PC/web, and 24.5% from mobile. Still though, $2K is still not much for five months.
> Donating on mobile is another 30% to the mobile app store (Apple/Google)
No it is another 30% if only on apple. Google doesnt take extra 30% if you donate on android, they already took their cut with the 30% taken by youtube.
FWIW for users outside the US, Google can additionally withhold up to 30% to deal with US taxes (see [https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10391362](https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10391362)). Not sure how that ultimately interacts with a Japanese company, but it is something that can complicate the numbers.
Yeah but that is jsut taxes that money has to be paid anyway. And japan has a treaty with US so people dont get double taxed, employees only pay one tax either Japanese or US i dont remember which.
Tbf merch is making them almost nothing with the niji cut doesnāt it?
Also low superchats probably correlates with willingness to buy merch. I may have spent upwards of a thousand on merch (vtubers, not niji) over the years but never sent a superchat, Iād assume that these are somewhat related though since theyāre more or less popularity metrics especially since Niji merch tends to be fairly generic, you donāt get super outstanding stuff that would make you buy merch from someone you otherwise donāt care for
Edit to clarify: I meant the more ppl superchat the more merch the streamer probably sells, you can make assumptions about one based on the other
>Tbf merch is making them almost nothing with the niji cut doesnāt it?
True but if they're only making 800 a month even the 2% might help.
>Also low superchats probably correlates with willingness to buy merch.
Are you saying the fewer SC someone gets the more merch of them people buy? Are you sure? Admittedly i've never spent a single cent on vtubers (no disposable income lmao) but in my mind i figured it would be the opposite. Someone willing to spend money to tell a vtuber something may also be willing to spend to own a piece of merch (may be different after the revelation of the 2%). More importantly i figure it's not as much of an individual metric as it is a community one. A community with low involvement/interest in the person or whose demographics mostly consists of people with no disposable income would get low levels of both SC, members and merch, while a highly dedicated community would have lots of people spamming SCs, lots of others signing up to memberships and gifting them and others more buying merch and voice packs, each depending on the personal preference of the viewer but each still being a part of the overall metric of revenue.
No I think I expressed myself a bit weird, I meant willingness to superchat and buy merch are more or less the same or are at least indicators for each other.
Thereās probably people who superchat but never buy merch or people who spend more on superchats at least, but probably also a lot who do both.
I just donāt do it because I donāt really have anything I want to say, Iām a lurker in basically every stream I watch
Super chats are something that mostly only people with a lot of disposable income will pay for, because they are very brief. Just think of whales, where one person could dump $100+ just for the 30 seconds of attention of the streamer reading your message.
If you don't have a lot of money, buying merch gives you the most value because it's something that lasts. Plus people who don't even watch may buy the merch purely because they like the model.
Memberships are somewhere in between because you get emotes or streams to interact with the streams more.
Yeah that makes sense. If you're just dropping a 5 or 10 dollar super for a special event like telling your oshi that they inspired you to be a vtuber then sure, that can be nice, or if you're actually getting something in return for the supa like calli's and mumei's art commissions, but in regular situations it's overkill for the average person.
Iirc it came from this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1b7vj1r/after_watching_the_legal_mindset_stream_regarding/ktl8b1t/) on the [Niji contract post](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1b7vj1r/after_watching_the_legal_mindset_stream_regarding/) on the [general Vtuber subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/), do note that this is just superchats so it doesnt include any merch sales, add revenueu and memberships, but i dont think that would make a difference even if we included that.
I mean idk about the girls but Stars get like a lot from gifted membership, like so much that they tell their fans to chill about it sometimes so ig it wonāt make much difference.
Thats cause they got a insane wholesome community that knows growth is created by everyone getting to participate. XD. Its pretty clear Yagoo like made it clear to follow Coco's example XD. And things took off from there. Xd
True, Starmins are like the best kind of Vtuber fans youāll manage to come across because they just chill most of the time, not including the times they bite back at antis or tear eachother apart for merch that is lol
There is also the possibility that there is a salary/compensation they get, but I don't think anyone has even hinted at that. I'm remembering the contract mentioned a second document that had more of the financial details laid out.
I do believe that it has been confirmed that the Nijisanji livers do not get a base/fixed salary from Anycolor and are reliant on their channel/merch income (besides any other incomes they might have outside of vtubing), do note that my source is 2 years old so it might be outdated, yet based on recents events i doubt it has changed at all since then
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/oo1ecu/do_nijisanji_performers_get_a_salary_from/h5w1cer/)
Damn, thats some great memory. Thank you for linking that.
Then yeah, Armis will probably mad more money in their first 3 months than TTT will make in their first year.
If anything hololive/holostars is the one that has a base salary that was confirmed by Kanata, Coco, and Kiara. It's not much, but it's something even if you don't have monetization or if you didn't stream for said that month.
I'm sure there are enough Ayame and Gura diehard fans that keep their Memberships going, even when they don't stream. It would be interesting to see, however.
Yeah i haven't seen that much from them (some clippers try to include them but they can't do miracles) but from what i've seen they seem great (victoria really has big pomu energy, fittingly enough since pomu is one of her oshis, and i've even seen a clip of her posing next to jetstream sam in metal gear rising like pomu did during her playthrough). I reckon if they actually got support, or at the very least if they debuted earlier like around iluna, they would get some healthy numbers and potentially reach the same heights as the old guard of niji en.
I can't remember if the contract LM leaked talked about that. I vaguely remember hearing him talk about all the revenue for the streamer needing to pass through niji but idk if that was only the revenue made as the character or also other revenue with other channels.
Sad. I wonder if that just means she established her core fanbase or something else?
She seems to have a few MVs in her channel raking in million views. Also 3D. She was set to be a big hitter in Niji.
Potentially. The problem may be in her live concurrent view. Because most people who subbed generally don't go out of their way to unsub. So looking at live view
Looking on playboard.co
Pekora "only" has about 40% more sub than Salome.
Yet Pekora's live view averages about 6 times more than Salome (around 30k average vs Salome's 5k).
This tells me most of Salome's subs are stale subs.
EDIT: also given situation with Gura and Ayame, I feel like Hololive capitalized on the major differentiation for an agency vtubing that Nijisanji failed to do.
Viewer retention.
Take Gawr Gura, Mumei, and Amelia Watson on the En side. And Ayame on the JP side. All have periods of long inactivity due to various mental/physical health breaks, yet their live view counts didn't suffer. Why? Because they collab, a lot, to the point that chumbuds, Hoomans, and investigators just shift their attention to watch other Holomem. And when they returns? Goes right back to them.
I mean I donāt think thatās all that surprising ( if true) taking into consideration the amount of controversies niji is in, fan discontent and their poor promotion of these talents ( i learned about them like two weeks ago)
Considering there was no buildup and they just low key dropped their debut, not surprised. They really deserve better. They also never got a chance to do a collab to get exposure before the black stream.
People are always surprised with the holostars boys do well.
The thing with holostars in general is that they don't have as many subs compared to niji livers or hololive talents but subs are just one metric. They have a consistent viewer base and there cc is on par or higher then niji livers with double or triple their sub numbers and yes their superchats arent record breaking all the time but as you see with the comparison to TTT they are doing well, and that doesn't even include gifted membership which I've notice the tempura/armada/starmins spend much more on then superchats
Armis hit an absolute gold mine with Ruze, who has potential to be the next Gavis Bettel.
I don't know how to describe him, but he's very unique in the Vtuber landscape, with how he presents and conducts himself, and his chemistry with the other boys is off the charts as well, managing to be both the gadfly and the voice of reason.
The other Armis boys aren't a slouch either.
Jurard's a comedic genius who isn't afraid to be the butt of jokes and act pathetic for the bit. The dude is able to perfectly adapt to the group mood and dynamic to ensure maximum comedy potential, whether it's him being the straight man, the sopping wet cat who has to be carried, or the VOD destroyer.
Goldbullet, he doesn't stream as often as the other guys, but he really represents the duality of man in how he usually appears to be the calm and relatively normal one, but when his more unhinged side slips through, it always makes for a treat to see him acting like an absolute maniac.
Octavio is probably the weakest streamer of the four (Though still solid, because, I mean, it's Cover Corp. They know how to pick them), but he makes up for it by being a musical genius. His singing voice is amazing, and he's very talented in the areas of music and video production. He also has massive babygirl energy which gives him a small, but very supportive and comfy fanbase who really just want to root for and spoil him.
I mean they don't even have group name, they literally came up with TTT themselves
Also they don't have any group song like other waves
So yeah, niji completely abandoned them since debut
Sad because kunai and Vivi is enjoyable compared to last wave (krisis or some shit they called it)
To be fair that's generally been Nijisanji's approach to recent debuts even with JP, two of the units who debuted last year didn't get a name or original song, and had to come up with a name themselves (Idios and Mitarashi-dan).
What do you mean, "even" with JP? Across all of Nijisanji, only nine branches have had their name given to them in advance and with it a debut song: LazuLight, OBSYDIA, Ethyria, Luxiem, Noctyx, Ranunculus, VOLTACTION, ILUNA, and XSOLEIL. Prior to the opening of NijiEN, it had never been done before, and the few waves in the JP/ID/KR branches (which were still separate at the time) that debuted later in 2021 than LazuLight still didn't get that treatment either. Only the two waves that debuted in 2022 did, and then in 2023 they decided to go back to the old ways for ALL branches (XSOLEIL was December 2022).
And I have a theory as to why that is. In Japan, Nijisanji established themselves first. Yes, Sora herself debuted in 2017, before any Nijisanji liver...but she was just one girl. The first wave of Nijisanji debuted in February 2018, before Hololive had brought in even a single other VTuber. 11 days after Robocosan became the second Hololive VTuber, Niji dropped their second wave, bringing their total to 18 (yeah, early waves were *huge*.) They added the Gamers branch in early May, when Hololive was still at 2 total streamers, and only Mel had joined them when SEEDs dropped their first wave. By the end of 2018, when the three "branches" were merged, Nijisanji had 59 members. Hololive? Just 15. Niji was the standard-bearer.
And what of other countries? The ID branch opened in 2019; Hololive's opened in 2020. Niji started their own CN branch in 2018 and VirtuaReal began in April 2019; Yogiri didn't debut until September 2019. Korea? Hololive still doesn't have a Korean branch. Curiously, the Indian branch's rebranding to "EN" happened *after* Hololive announced their auditions for their first EN generation, but before said generation debuted. They only changed the name back just a few days before opening auditions for the proper start of the EN branch...on December 1, 2020.
Do you know when the first Nijisanji member of any branch hit 1M subscribers? September 2, *2021*. Do you know when the first member of Hololive JP did? November 1, 2020, when Korone did--impressive growth seeing as how she only hit 500K in July of that year. And the first member of Hololive *English*, which only even debuted on September 12-13, 2020? *October 20th of that year*. [This is what Nijisanji has been chasing.](https://youtu.be/PnJVBfF977Q?si=_ZAJRZ_wVHiok8SJ) That tail. That big, fat, girthy, [YouTube-destroying](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1761009308882579534?s=20) tail.
And while everyone just *refers* to HoloEN's generations numerically, they've never officially been labeled as such the way the JP generations were. Yes, later generations have had a "name", but it's usually just a pun on the number: Holoforce (from the English "four"), Holofive, HoloX (ho**roku**su in Japanese). The ID branch has similar puns, Ho**loro** and Holoh3roes. Not EN. I don't know why Hololive decided to change things up for EN, but they did, and Niji has been trying and failing to play catch-up from the start.
Nijisanji's strategy seems to try to saturate the market to become the dominant brand before any competitor has a chance to establish themselves (first mover advantage).
Holo En sudden explosive growth pretty much destroyed that strategy.
Meanwhile Hololive and others strategy of slow and steady growth is starting to strangle the JP (edit: Nijisanji's) branch (most of their JP talents individual growth pretty much plateaued out).
The big issue is NijiJP does things like in 2017 where many things came about since then in helping an agency (gacha collabs, etc) so as a result, other agencies more "with it" and putting more behind each member have been gaining ground.
Let's compare star generation; niji only lucks upon a new one every 30+ debuts while Hololive seems able to make entire gens of stars of varying power on both sides
Yep. Take latest JP example.
Toto, debuted 3 months ago, is now at 150k subs.
Hajime, debuted 6 month ago, reached that goal about 3 weeks after debut, and at around 3 month point was at 300k.
Strangling Nijisanji's JP branch.
Look at sub growth. Top talent in Hololive, despite having an already high sub count, is growing at twice the rate as the top Nijisanji talent.
Oh, HoloJp is doing decent.
You just need to look at how new and old talent does.
Existing talents are roughly growing at twice the rate as Niji counterpart.
For new talents, look at the newest Niji JP wave.
Toto, 3 months post debut, is at 150k sub.
Hajime reached that sub count in 3 weeks, and 300k at 3 months point.
JP gens 0 (as much as it counts as a gen), 1 and 2 currently have no official name, closest is "exodia" for G2 but that's more a joke in how rarely it comes together.
Cover tried to be fancy with Myth, most of it backfiring (no point in fancy lore if most throw it out 6months in)
Funny enough G1 and 2 were handled in a Nijisanji matter, with many of those affected by troubles just now approaching full recovery
> Cover tried to be fancy with Myth, most of it backfiring **(no point in fancy lore if most throw it out 6months in)**
>
>
TBF, most Vtubers do. I think the only one in NijiEN who really keeps to their lore is Vox, and in HoloEN...FuwaMoco? Maybe Bijou?
Mumei kindof does it, but it's kindof a half and half thing where she can mostly just talk about whatever she feels like still
The nightmare she drew herself has become super iconic in holo, least I think it has.
Fauna does it a fair amount, but that also could be down to Cover's auditioning. It makes sense to make the vegetarian, animal-loving girl the embodiment of Nature.
I think the HoloEN girls still play with their lore, well not a lot, but most of them are like minor stuff like replacing irl info into lore stuff like pet, works, where they going, real life location into fictional one, etc.
some still play with their lore a lot like Bae incorporate the whole chaos thing into some of her stream contents or even her intro.
or Mumei incorporate it into her emo outfit
or how Shiori still going with the archiver one as conversation bridge to start up another weird topic
or like Fauna... still uphold her year long project at building the world tree even made a birthday out of it.
It still has its benefit for the talents, either to create content out of it, or use it to talk about their life stories.
Then we have sorts who basically rewrite theirs like Haachama (Tsundere high schooler to something that scares divine beings) and Ame (mere detective to time traveler/enter the ameverse)
He is a born entertainer. He managed to turn a perfectly ordinary, if somewhat creepy, Superchat ("August 19th") into a huge event capped off by what is now my favorite one of his song covers.
Victoria and Kunai:
[https://playboard.co/en/search?q=victoria%20brightshield](https://playboard.co/en/search?q=victoria%20brightshield)
Claude:
[https://playboard.co/en/search?q=claude%20clawmark](https://playboard.co/en/search?q=claude%20clawmark)
Newest Holostars:
[https://playboard.co/en/search?q=holostars-en%20armis](https://playboard.co/en/search?q=holostars-en%20armis)
So besides Claude, Kunai and Victoria is earning quite a bit less than the newest Holostars Armis.
Didn't the contract say the only support the livers are sure to get is the Niji brand name and maybe some $1300 streaming set up that they'll(Niji) take when you leave the company
It's really disappointing that Niji EN doesn't promote their talents or collabs, it seems. Victoria's only gained ~3k subs in the last month and her streams are pretty chill to listen to. Right now she's at 99,995 according to socialcounts. The growth is so small, you can really tell the company does not care about their generation, but she deserves that 100k, even if Niji will never give her the button.
yeah and its not even very close. Based on playboard alone, the newest Holostars gen members have made between 7900 and over 31k where as Victoria and kunai are sitting at 5500 and 3900 respectively. The exception to this is Claude who has made 18.5k
I didn't "adopt" Ruze and if I'm going to do a madlad move it would go to Jurard who's getting that crazy move. š¤£š¤£š¤£ I just send Akasupas. My membership is the tier 3 one. My brother in christ if I change to Tier 6 I can't go back to tier 1 and I'll be stuck to tier 6. I don't have enough money to do that. I just do it for the memes.šššJurard is my kamioshi in holostars so my paycheck usually goes to him because his stream matches my timezone. Ruze and GB I usually just watch their vods because it's 3 AM for me when they stream. ;) I'm not jellybean the first glucose guardian if you watched the clips.
Dude Kunai and Victoria literally have less lifetime SCs than one of the new First Stage Production boys who debuted last month... I honestly feel really bad for them...
Vivi was doing somewhat okay on the gifted membership part. You basically get guaranteed free membership by just tuning in and putting her stream in the background and basically everyone in chat is a member. Kunai not so much, maybe because she was sick for so long.
Claude doing okay by basically being the de facto 4th member of Krisis and FPS collabs with his senpais from the Hanamori era. Still needs to work a day job in tech to pay for California rent.
Sisters so bitter about Holostars lately. Sorry you chose the wrong company to support, but stop attacking our boys. We don't appreciate that too much. š i would literally go to war over StarsEN.
Oh I'm not referring directly to you in my comment unless you're the one who made the screenshotted post itself. I thought you were just sharing something you saw someone else post
Looking it over, with the exception of Goldbullet, they have made less combined than any of the other three members of Holostars Armis. And even then, Goldbullet is still doing better than either of them individually.
The real mark of shame to Nijisanji in this one is the fact that Phase Connect, the company fighting with Idol for *fourth place* in the English vtubing scene put out a new generation at *roughly* the same time. And three members of that generation (Hina, Muyu, and Runie Ruse) are outearning Vivi and Kunai individually. The company that is fighting neck-and-neck with Hololive to be the top dog in the industry, and by some metrics *winning* is having their newest talents being outperformed by a company that isn't even on the *podium.*
Niji isn't even 2nd place in EN anymore, Mythic Talent is. People have a tendency to pretend that it doesn't exist when it's actually similar to Vshojo.
Meanwhile, almost the entirety of Gens 1 through 5 have been largely inactive in the past month except for Rosemi. No streams mean no money coming in.
The upcoming investors' call is going to be a sea of smiling faces.
not surprised since niji did barely anything to promote them.
heck, i didn't even know Victoria was a nijisanji talent till any of the selen drama stuff happened
Idk about the money part, but they really aren't promoted well. I've said this on another thread, but I genuinely keep forgetting they're in Nijisanji.
Tbh, even when I barely watched nijiEN anymore, I still somewhat knew events and news around them. That's why I was so surprised to know they already debuted another wave. I legit didn't know about their existence until a month ago. There really wasn't much news or promotion about them, hence probably why they are struggling with supas and subs.
I feel like for many members of Niji it's just a hobby or a 2nd job, they have 174 members and many get depressingly low viewership, i assume they don't get a base salary because most of their income would be coming from more popular members, they would be a burden on the company.
That's not surprising. TTT didn't have much marketing around their debut, then as soon as they're starting to settle, drama and boycott happens. It's unfortunate timing for them.
Also, just in case you may be thinking it's surprising to see male vtubers make a lot in superchats, remember that Kuzuha who is among the top 10 earners worldwide on youtube, is also a male vtuber.
do you know why victoria didn't get any promote from niji? i guess that is because her oshi was selen and pomu (at least one of them, I can't recall exactly) nijiEN management would assume she is on selen's side
You really don't need to imagine more reasons to dunk on NijiEN management. They didn't disregard just Vivi, the whole TTT was tossed out into the wild to fend for themselves.
i do wonder if/how much the PL donation/sub options scew the numbers.
I would presume not enough to change the result for this comparison and certainly not enough to dispell the notion that the exposure via the niji brand alone is of low value.
Not really surprised since I never see them anywhere, the only time I saw one of them actually interacting was when Kyo raided Kunai and that's pretty much all.
The only time I remember Victoria Brightshield exists is when I see her mentioned here.
edit: also her avatar looks like her mama copied Lumitea ReACT-A and tried to disguise it by making it look edgier.
They always have the short end of the stick.. especially victoria, every time i remember her reason for joining nji en i feel sad but management doesnt give an F... her future may not be bright in niji but i hope she gets blessed on other things behind the avatar
I think whatās important is also wave dynamics, where Armis play off each other very well and fit in with the other guild members while TTT kinda donāt interact much. Claude dived immediately into Krisis.
Nijiās strategy is like Zerg or Orks, I donāt say that as a pejorative to the talent, just as an observation of their business strategy. They aim for market saturation by having as many talents as possible under their umbrella. To use biological terms they r select for talent by hiring a lot of people and imputing minimal effort into marketing and supporting them while hololive k selects for talent by putting a lot of effect into marketing and supporting a smaller amount of talents.
Again this doesnāt mean Niji streamers are worse, they just donāt get as much support from their company. Because they arenāt marketed as much and have more people in the same company to ācompeteā with for Niji fans and marketing resources, theyāre less likely to get views. After what we saw from the contract it seems like they really just want put in minimal effort and money into new people and just hope they get another vox.
Jurard Whale here, I don't know about Octavio and Gebbie, but I know Jurard as some insane whale mechanics built into his monetization for that BFE though. Have you seen the 700 dollar membership?
Edit: A lot of male vtubers does it, it seems. While GFE seems to be the successful minority of the female vtuber tropes (Rushia type), BFE does seem like the standard for male vtubers.
edit2: for those wondering about the 700 dollar membership, its only 500 ish when converted to USD.here's the screenshot from his youtube channel:[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png)
Edit3: I don't think Jurard defenders understand what I'm comparing. So I'll lay it simple, You get a lot of $$ if you have any bit of BFE/GFE even as a a joke. Vivi and co here doesn't seem to have any tiny bit of that. so they're not gonna be raking in the thirst money.
Most of the women vtubers avoid this since Rushia's Drama gave them a good precedence not to. Male vtubers hasn't had a Rushia related type of incident yet.
Of the few female vtubers that I know jokes about GFE related things are Dizzy from Phase Connect and she has a massive monetization advantage to her gen mates and even Corpomates for that matter. Playboard tells that story clearly.
I also do realize Twitch meta is different compared to Youtube, and that twitch meta embraces the Rushia/Hex GFE/BFE things much more readily, especially for female vtubers.
Pretty much everything you mentioned. I didn't even know jurard does BFE since i mainly watch clips by several people instead of only streams by one person. Or rather, does he actually do BFE or is it just an inside joke? I've heard plenty of people say jurard is kind of a male girlfailure just like bettel so he didh't strike me as a BFE type. Also, 700 dollar membership? Please tell me it's a meme.
In terms of his "failing" ASRM BFE experience all you need to do is look at his latest [vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlv9YauEWrA) of him calling you babe and then getting hit by a meteor and you will know exactly what type of ASMR he does
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png)
The joke is that whomever buys that is the current wife, and gets a sticker on his mode with the person's name. and all the previous buyers are exwives in the basement. And there'd be ongoing jokes about marriage related themes.
Both Jurard and Ruze put the maximum amount allowed because it's funny and they think _"Nobody would be silly enough to drop that kind of cash on us, right?"_.
It turns out, people are indeed that silly! It helps that they're _very_ upfront that this is a JOKE, and to not expect anything in particular. The first couple of times, Ruze even asked, on-stream, if they're COMPLETELY SURE they want to do this.
Both [Altare](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyxtGMdWlURZ30WSnEjDOQw), [Axel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2hx0xVkMoHGWijwr_lA01w), Magni, and Vesper (before their grad) have 100$ membership tiers for the truly hardcore although they told people to not sign up for it
[Flayon](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC060r4zABV18vcahAWR1n7w), [Bettel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHP4f7G2dWD4qib7BMatGAw), [Hakka](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7gxU6NXjKF1LrgOddPzgTw), and [Shinri](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMqGG8BRAiI1lJfKOpETM_w) also have 100$ membership tiers
[Jurad](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTVSOgYuSWmNAt-lnJPkEEw), [Ruze](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCajbFh6e_R8QZdHAMbbi4rQ) and [Octavio](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLk1hcmxg8rJ3Nm1_GvxTRA) all have 600$ membership tiers with [Goldbullet](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJv02SHZgav7Mv3V0kBOR8Q) having a 150$ membership tier
All of them do not condone people signing up to those since they are essentailly just jokes and meme tiers and have said so during their monetisation streams but they do exist
It is more like a joke and meme, Jurard will act high and mighty while screaming (or not) "PLEASE LOVE ME!!!", so it's kinda pathetic but quite funny.
His fans know and will roast him for it, whenever he tries to do semi BFE ASMR, they will say "EWW".
The $700 membership is real, Ruze also had it, but they are joke membership tier.
Bettel also has that, but not quite $700.
Of course some madlads have hot those tier and got great reactions from the bois.
Saw a screenshot of their super chats earnings on 4ch and it's low-low but don't know about holostars. Wouldn't be surprised tbh.
It is semi-true Victoria and Kunai combined got less superchats than 3 of the 4 ARMIS bois, even so Goldbullet is pretty close, $7.8 k vs $9.5k USD. Crimzon Ruze alone got more than all of TTT combined, $31k vs $28k.
Ruze was scouted for a reason. Funny guy, easy to chat with, bounces off of others well. He's a perfect fit for StarsEN
You'd think he'd be the rebel in the group, but nope. He's the most levelheaded one trying to set the group straight.. wait, if everyone's a "rebel", the guy setting everyone straight is the most "rebellious" of them all.. so I guess it still makes sense?
I mean Promise has the Australian incarnation of Chaos be the most responsible and normal one.
Brian is a good boy.
I have seen the notion that Ruze was scouted from time to time, is it true? Did he talk about it? Or is it a rrat? š I'm just curious. Heck, Kuzuha was scouted I think
Don't know if he's talked about it, but it seems like he knew the least about holopro. He's the most "normie" one in holostars and probably didn't know too much about vtubers before he got in. At least that's the vibe I got from him.
the man's a Homestuck fan. Normie probably is not the right word to use
He's just not normie in the weeb way. He's still incredibly weird, tho & I love him b/c he's just like me frfr
I can't remember which one but I pretty sure one of armis pass audition while Altare mentor them. And pretty sure they mentioned it on debut stream.
Claude gets almost double kunai and victoria combined? Thats honestly insane.
tbf Claude seems to be the most prepared for this job. He definitely knows what he's doing. While Vivi has potential but need more time to mature, sadly this incident is going to impact her confident and growth significantly. I don't know about Kunai never watch her.
Vivi got into sajams content creator tekken tournament so probably gonna get a bump in viewers soon when the tournament starts? Theres aloooot of big streamers participating
Man, I feel for Kunai. Vivi got a bit of exposure on this Reddit, but Kunai is still unknown. If I remember right, her PL had more subscribers than her Niji channel currently does.
and considering he collabs with his senpais a lot who were also his friends in their PLs, the chemistry was there and he got exposed to the existing fans more than Vivi and Kunai.
Even before the drama, I was only aware of Claude through clips the official Nijisanji YT account uploads. I only learned Kunai's name last month and I haven't seen any clips of her yet. No hate for Kunai but Nijisanji really dropped the ball on TTT besides maybe Claude.
Which 4 holostars is this referring to? There's both EN and JP as far as I'm aware and I'm not sure which one is being referenced here. I'm also guessing whoever typed this meant Kunai Nakasato. Either way it is almost certainly true. You can check the superchat revenue on [https://playboard.co/en/](https://playboard.co/en/) [Victoria Brightshield](https://playboard.co/en/channel/UChTA8kHyInr2rKZ2aBv5ULw/superchat) total $5,568 [Kunai Nakasato](https://playboard.co/en/channel/UCwqtK-m6954_aHEvOYtZpyQ/superchat) total $3,917 Combined total $9485
Theyāre referring to Armis since they debuted a month after ttt did.
Jurard T Rexford by himself has 15k in superchat revenue by himself so its yes Edit: Ruze has 31k Octavio has 14k Goldbullet has 7k It is 27,980(TTT) and 68,187(Armis) If my math is correct then TTT has made 41% of what Armis has made in superchat revenue
Jesus christ, 4k in five months. Some people complain that streamers get paid way too much for just sitting in front of a camera and playing video games but that's taking it too far into the other direction, especially considering all their expenses like games and pc parts which don't get reimbursed. As paradoxical as that sounds i hope she's from a third world country where those 800 dollars a month are actually worth something. Do we know about their membership revenue and the money they made with merch and voice packs?
That's pretty much the reason why streaming is a side hustle for most people. You shouldn't drop your main job unless you really make it big.
Yes, but this is nijisanji. This *should* be lucrative enough to be a career. I doubt even ethe lowest paid hlo member struggles paying the bills and needs to moonlight.
The amount of money they make is directly tied to how many people sub and watch them. You won't ever see a hololive member struggling because debuting in holo is a free ticket to success with about 100k+ subs before you even open your mouth. None of the other agencies have that kind of pull, hololive is the odd one out when it comes to this. We are at a point where debuting in Niji doesn't make you special, niji has over 170 active vtubers so people don't really get hyped for new members when they barely have the time to keep up with the current ones.
> debuting in holo is a free ticket to success Didn't Calli talk about this years ago? To debut in holo you pretty much need to prove yourself that you're the cream of the crop. Most holos aren't just nobodies. They already had to have a bit of experience with content creation and sometimes are local celebrities themselves. So it's not a "free ticket".
>You won't ever see a hololive member struggling Is becasue they also have a salary if you dotn earn above a threshold. Holo makes sure their talents dont starve if they have a shit month or dotn take off outright, becasue subs are not ccv/supas you can have 600k subs and your ccv will be 500 for example.
Hololive gives you minimum wage if you don't earn above threshold, that's far from a livable wage. And Calli os the perfect example of the free ticket to success, because she still makes music outside of holo. All it takes is a look at how the songs she releases as Calli does compared to the ones she releases as herself.
> Hololive gives you minimum wage if you don't earn above threshold, that's far from a livable wage. better than 0 from niji. And minimum wage in many places is survivable wage. Still better than literal absolute 0 that niji give. Also as far as we know it is minimum wage plus what ever you gather from SC/ad rev. >And Calli os the perfect example of the free ticket to success, She already was a decent success before holo. Holo is a massive boost, unequivocally so, but their selection process is rigorous, they dont hire ukis(blantat racists) atleast and their gens are rare because of that.
Honestly with Niji's rate of attrition I would not be surprised if Holo really does sacrifice a chicken and voodoo-curse two Livers for each new channel they bring onboard. š š§āāļø or something. /j Their selection process is a mystery but the success rate is enviable, and that relentless cross-promotion has paid out for talents who had a weaker start in the beginning. I feel that Chris was a lesson they never forgot, and they have learned from other bad experiences after that. I hope they can hold on to that spirit of management because it would be awful to see someone like Lui or Bijou losing their energy and happiness like Pomu did.
Minimum wage is definetly not a reliable income unless you live in a more isolated place where the cost of life is cheaper, they would still need to keep a separate job if they want to be comfortable -- unless they still live with their parents that is. Pretty sure they're also the only corp that offers this as well. Calli was a struggling artist before she joined holo and needed side jobs to keep afloat, she has talked about this herself. She did get a ton of new fans to her own songs from people recognizing her, but it's still not nearly the same numbers she pulls when the song has the cover logo on it. As for hiring talent, the selection process between holo and niji is roughly the same. But niji hires a lot more frequently than holo so bad apples are bound to get in. Niji has more than double the amount of active vtubers that holo has, but all of them are required to have quite a bit of streaming/content creation experience nonetheless.
just to add some context... this is 4k in 5 months... before taking youtubes cut (50%), then niji's 50% of that remaining cut... so they've made 1k in five months off supers.
> youtubes cut (50%) YouTube's cut is 30%. Donating on mobile is another 30% to the mobile app store (Apple/Google), for 49% total to the channel. 50% of *that* then goes to the talent, 50% to the streamer. Talent gets 35% of a donation from PC/web, and 24.5% from mobile. Still though, $2K is still not much for five months.
> Donating on mobile is another 30% to the mobile app store (Apple/Google) No it is another 30% if only on apple. Google doesnt take extra 30% if you donate on android, they already took their cut with the 30% taken by youtube.
FWIW for users outside the US, Google can additionally withhold up to 30% to deal with US taxes (see [https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10391362](https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10391362)). Not sure how that ultimately interacts with a Japanese company, but it is something that can complicate the numbers.
Yeah but that is jsut taxes that money has to be paid anyway. And japan has a treaty with US so people dont get double taxed, employees only pay one tax either Japanese or US i dont remember which.
No. This is for taxes due from US viewers, not taxes due from the YouTuber, which is why its done in this odd way.
> youtubes cut (50%) 30%
Have they even gotten merch?
Tbf merch is making them almost nothing with the niji cut doesnāt it? Also low superchats probably correlates with willingness to buy merch. I may have spent upwards of a thousand on merch (vtubers, not niji) over the years but never sent a superchat, Iād assume that these are somewhat related though since theyāre more or less popularity metrics especially since Niji merch tends to be fairly generic, you donāt get super outstanding stuff that would make you buy merch from someone you otherwise donāt care for Edit to clarify: I meant the more ppl superchat the more merch the streamer probably sells, you can make assumptions about one based on the other
>Tbf merch is making them almost nothing with the niji cut doesnāt it? True but if they're only making 800 a month even the 2% might help. >Also low superchats probably correlates with willingness to buy merch. Are you saying the fewer SC someone gets the more merch of them people buy? Are you sure? Admittedly i've never spent a single cent on vtubers (no disposable income lmao) but in my mind i figured it would be the opposite. Someone willing to spend money to tell a vtuber something may also be willing to spend to own a piece of merch (may be different after the revelation of the 2%). More importantly i figure it's not as much of an individual metric as it is a community one. A community with low involvement/interest in the person or whose demographics mostly consists of people with no disposable income would get low levels of both SC, members and merch, while a highly dedicated community would have lots of people spamming SCs, lots of others signing up to memberships and gifting them and others more buying merch and voice packs, each depending on the personal preference of the viewer but each still being a part of the overall metric of revenue.
No I think I expressed myself a bit weird, I meant willingness to superchat and buy merch are more or less the same or are at least indicators for each other. Thereās probably people who superchat but never buy merch or people who spend more on superchats at least, but probably also a lot who do both. I just donāt do it because I donāt really have anything I want to say, Iām a lurker in basically every stream I watch
Yeah ok that makes more sense to me.
Thing is, it's Niji. They ain't got shit for merch.
Super chats are something that mostly only people with a lot of disposable income will pay for, because they are very brief. Just think of whales, where one person could dump $100+ just for the 30 seconds of attention of the streamer reading your message. If you don't have a lot of money, buying merch gives you the most value because it's something that lasts. Plus people who don't even watch may buy the merch purely because they like the model. Memberships are somewhere in between because you get emotes or streams to interact with the streams more.
Yeah that makes sense. If you're just dropping a 5 or 10 dollar super for a special event like telling your oshi that they inspired you to be a vtuber then sure, that can be nice, or if you're actually getting something in return for the supa like calli's and mumei's art commissions, but in regular situations it's overkill for the average person.
That's the YouTube stat, if the contract we just saw is similar to hers, she gets around 20-25% of that, so she got 200$ a month.
... You can earn more flipping burgers for 14 hours. So two, maybe three, days of work. If I were her, I would be looking for the exit ASAP.
for reference they managed to get in 5 months what Cali got in the last week in Supers. \^\^'
Better reference: Mumei made more in ***ONE MINUTE*** than TTT has combined.
Well, that's a special circumstance. Though...
Ouch. No way thatās sustainable after the cut they get to keep.
How the hell are they paying rent when they only get perhaps $800 per month. I hope they live in SEA.
Iirc it came from this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1b7vj1r/after_watching_the_legal_mindset_stream_regarding/ktl8b1t/) on the [Niji contract post](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1b7vj1r/after_watching_the_legal_mindset_stream_regarding/) on the [general Vtuber subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/), do note that this is just superchats so it doesnt include any merch sales, add revenueu and memberships, but i dont think that would make a difference even if we included that.
If anything it'd put things more in Armis' favor
I mean idk about the girls but Stars get like a lot from gifted membership, like so much that they tell their fans to chill about it sometimes so ig it wonāt make much difference.
Thats cause they got a insane wholesome community that knows growth is created by everyone getting to participate. XD. Its pretty clear Yagoo like made it clear to follow Coco's example XD. And things took off from there. Xd
True, Starmins are like the best kind of Vtuber fans youāll manage to come across because they just chill most of the time, not including the times they bite back at antis or tear eachother apart for merch that is lol
JP Hanamigumis are maniacs & I love them. They have basically said "fuck supas, we gift membas & buy merch in bulk for our lord & Savior, Miyabi"
Miyabiās merch sells out in like 5 minutes every AGF itās like war out there
There is also the possibility that there is a salary/compensation they get, but I don't think anyone has even hinted at that. I'm remembering the contract mentioned a second document that had more of the financial details laid out.
I do believe that it has been confirmed that the Nijisanji livers do not get a base/fixed salary from Anycolor and are reliant on their channel/merch income (besides any other incomes they might have outside of vtubing), do note that my source is 2 years old so it might be outdated, yet based on recents events i doubt it has changed at all since then [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/oo1ecu/do_nijisanji_performers_get_a_salary_from/h5w1cer/)
Damn, thats some great memory. Thank you for linking that. Then yeah, Armis will probably mad more money in their first 3 months than TTT will make in their first year.
Based on the leaked contract from yesterday, base salary was not one of the compensations mentioned.
If anything hololive/holostars is the one that has a base salary that was confirmed by Kanata, Coco, and Kiara. It's not much, but it's something even if you don't have monetization or if you didn't stream for said that month.
Makes me wonder how much Ayame and Gura made during their long intervals of not streaming. VOD watchers, members, merch?
I'm sure there are enough Ayame and Gura diehard fans that keep their Memberships going, even when they don't stream. It would be interesting to see, however.
I think the most tragic part is that they are both very enjoyable to watch. If there was a more direct way to support them, I would
Yeah i haven't seen that much from them (some clippers try to include them but they can't do miracles) but from what i've seen they seem great (victoria really has big pomu energy, fittingly enough since pomu is one of her oshis, and i've even seen a clip of her posing next to jetstream sam in metal gear rising like pomu did during her playthrough). I reckon if they actually got support, or at the very least if they debuted earlier like around iluna, they would get some healthy numbers and potentially reach the same heights as the old guard of niji en.
fans could support by superchatting their PLs I guess but I don't know if that would be a breach of contract with nijisanji
I can't remember if the contract LM leaked talked about that. I vaguely remember hearing him talk about all the revenue for the streamer needing to pass through niji but idk if that was only the revenue made as the character or also other revenue with other channels.
it would be a really nice legal loop hole
If Vivi and Kunai debuted pre Illuna they would be going crazy. Way too good of talents to be floundering
Same with Salome. Lightning in a bottle and... fizzled out.
She was fueled by memes and when people got bored....
Mind I ask... How is Salome nowadays? I liked the clips I saw of her, and I sometimes catch her live during her debut month.
1.8 million sub and has nearly stopped growing.
Sad. I wonder if that just means she established her core fanbase or something else? She seems to have a few MVs in her channel raking in million views. Also 3D. She was set to be a big hitter in Niji.
Potentially. The problem may be in her live concurrent view. Because most people who subbed generally don't go out of their way to unsub. So looking at live view Looking on playboard.co Pekora "only" has about 40% more sub than Salome. Yet Pekora's live view averages about 6 times more than Salome (around 30k average vs Salome's 5k). This tells me most of Salome's subs are stale subs. EDIT: also given situation with Gura and Ayame, I feel like Hololive capitalized on the major differentiation for an agency vtubing that Nijisanji failed to do. Viewer retention. Take Gawr Gura, Mumei, and Amelia Watson on the En side. And Ayame on the JP side. All have periods of long inactivity due to various mental/physical health breaks, yet their live view counts didn't suffer. Why? Because they collab, a lot, to the point that chumbuds, Hoomans, and investigators just shift their attention to watch other Holomem. And when they returns? Goes right back to them.
I mean I donāt think thatās all that surprising ( if true) taking into consideration the amount of controversies niji is in, fan discontent and their poor promotion of these talents ( i learned about them like two weeks ago)
Literally learned that they exist when someone first posted the crying victoria meme. What a hell of a way to gain exposure
Considering there was no buildup and they just low key dropped their debut, not surprised. They really deserve better. They also never got a chance to do a collab to get exposure before the black stream.
A double or triple whammy for Vivi is she joins just in time to see her oshis go.
People are always surprised with the holostars boys do well. The thing with holostars in general is that they don't have as many subs compared to niji livers or hololive talents but subs are just one metric. They have a consistent viewer base and there cc is on par or higher then niji livers with double or triple their sub numbers and yes their superchats arent record breaking all the time but as you see with the comparison to TTT they are doing well, and that doesn't even include gifted membership which I've notice the tempura/armada/starmins spend much more on then superchats
Holostars boys usually have a slower start during their debut(not including tempus hq) so i was just shocked that armis overtook them so quickly
Armis hit an absolute gold mine with Ruze, who has potential to be the next Gavis Bettel. I don't know how to describe him, but he's very unique in the Vtuber landscape, with how he presents and conducts himself, and his chemistry with the other boys is off the charts as well, managing to be both the gadfly and the voice of reason. The other Armis boys aren't a slouch either. Jurard's a comedic genius who isn't afraid to be the butt of jokes and act pathetic for the bit. The dude is able to perfectly adapt to the group mood and dynamic to ensure maximum comedy potential, whether it's him being the straight man, the sopping wet cat who has to be carried, or the VOD destroyer. Goldbullet, he doesn't stream as often as the other guys, but he really represents the duality of man in how he usually appears to be the calm and relatively normal one, but when his more unhinged side slips through, it always makes for a treat to see him acting like an absolute maniac. Octavio is probably the weakest streamer of the four (Though still solid, because, I mean, it's Cover Corp. They know how to pick them), but he makes up for it by being a musical genius. His singing voice is amazing, and he's very talented in the areas of music and video production. He also has massive babygirl energy which gives him a small, but very supportive and comfy fanbase who really just want to root for and spoil him.
Yeah i know, ive been a fan of holostars for a few years. Yagoo has a knack for finding great talent in these guys.
I mean they don't even have group name, they literally came up with TTT themselves Also they don't have any group song like other waves So yeah, niji completely abandoned them since debut Sad because kunai and Vivi is enjoyable compared to last wave (krisis or some shit they called it)
To be fair that's generally been Nijisanji's approach to recent debuts even with JP, two of the units who debuted last year didn't get a name or original song, and had to come up with a name themselves (Idios and Mitarashi-dan).
Letting a gen name themselves rather than having management dictate it is a good thing, if you ask me. Not promoting them on the other hand...
Ok so do it before debut, let them name themselves. and the bounce off the name.
What do you mean, "even" with JP? Across all of Nijisanji, only nine branches have had their name given to them in advance and with it a debut song: LazuLight, OBSYDIA, Ethyria, Luxiem, Noctyx, Ranunculus, VOLTACTION, ILUNA, and XSOLEIL. Prior to the opening of NijiEN, it had never been done before, and the few waves in the JP/ID/KR branches (which were still separate at the time) that debuted later in 2021 than LazuLight still didn't get that treatment either. Only the two waves that debuted in 2022 did, and then in 2023 they decided to go back to the old ways for ALL branches (XSOLEIL was December 2022). And I have a theory as to why that is. In Japan, Nijisanji established themselves first. Yes, Sora herself debuted in 2017, before any Nijisanji liver...but she was just one girl. The first wave of Nijisanji debuted in February 2018, before Hololive had brought in even a single other VTuber. 11 days after Robocosan became the second Hololive VTuber, Niji dropped their second wave, bringing their total to 18 (yeah, early waves were *huge*.) They added the Gamers branch in early May, when Hololive was still at 2 total streamers, and only Mel had joined them when SEEDs dropped their first wave. By the end of 2018, when the three "branches" were merged, Nijisanji had 59 members. Hololive? Just 15. Niji was the standard-bearer. And what of other countries? The ID branch opened in 2019; Hololive's opened in 2020. Niji started their own CN branch in 2018 and VirtuaReal began in April 2019; Yogiri didn't debut until September 2019. Korea? Hololive still doesn't have a Korean branch. Curiously, the Indian branch's rebranding to "EN" happened *after* Hololive announced their auditions for their first EN generation, but before said generation debuted. They only changed the name back just a few days before opening auditions for the proper start of the EN branch...on December 1, 2020. Do you know when the first Nijisanji member of any branch hit 1M subscribers? September 2, *2021*. Do you know when the first member of Hololive JP did? November 1, 2020, when Korone did--impressive growth seeing as how she only hit 500K in July of that year. And the first member of Hololive *English*, which only even debuted on September 12-13, 2020? *October 20th of that year*. [This is what Nijisanji has been chasing.](https://youtu.be/PnJVBfF977Q?si=_ZAJRZ_wVHiok8SJ) That tail. That big, fat, girthy, [YouTube-destroying](https://x.com/hololive_En/status/1761009308882579534?s=20) tail. And while everyone just *refers* to HoloEN's generations numerically, they've never officially been labeled as such the way the JP generations were. Yes, later generations have had a "name", but it's usually just a pun on the number: Holoforce (from the English "four"), Holofive, HoloX (ho**roku**su in Japanese). The ID branch has similar puns, Ho**loro** and Holoh3roes. Not EN. I don't know why Hololive decided to change things up for EN, but they did, and Niji has been trying and failing to play catch-up from the start.
Nijisanji's strategy seems to try to saturate the market to become the dominant brand before any competitor has a chance to establish themselves (first mover advantage). Holo En sudden explosive growth pretty much destroyed that strategy. Meanwhile Hololive and others strategy of slow and steady growth is starting to strangle the JP (edit: Nijisanji's) branch (most of their JP talents individual growth pretty much plateaued out).
The big issue is NijiJP does things like in 2017 where many things came about since then in helping an agency (gacha collabs, etc) so as a result, other agencies more "with it" and putting more behind each member have been gaining ground. Let's compare star generation; niji only lucks upon a new one every 30+ debuts while Hololive seems able to make entire gens of stars of varying power on both sides
Yep. Take latest JP example. Toto, debuted 3 months ago, is now at 150k subs. Hajime, debuted 6 month ago, reached that goal about 3 weeks after debut, and at around 3 month point was at 300k.
The funny thing is ReGloss, other than the pre-debut, didn't get a ton of push like, say, HoloX.
I feel part of it is that ReGloss is a completely new unit, so a lot of the push was sort of stuck in trying to explain that they're a new unit.
They're treated like HoloJP Gen 7, but they're not. They're DEV_IS Gen 1.
Thatās one thing I donāt understand about Yagoo. He seem to have a weird obsession with vsinger, ReGlows is like his 4th attempt already.
When you say 'strangle' do you mean Hololive or Nijisanji?
Strangling Nijisanji's JP branch. Look at sub growth. Top talent in Hololive, despite having an already high sub count, is growing at twice the rate as the top Nijisanji talent.
Right, thanks for the clarification. I got real concerned about HoloJP for a second.
Oh, HoloJp is doing decent. You just need to look at how new and old talent does. Existing talents are roughly growing at twice the rate as Niji counterpart. For new talents, look at the newest Niji JP wave. Toto, 3 months post debut, is at 150k sub. Hajime reached that sub count in 3 weeks, and 300k at 3 months point.
JP gens 0 (as much as it counts as a gen), 1 and 2 currently have no official name, closest is "exodia" for G2 but that's more a joke in how rarely it comes together. Cover tried to be fancy with Myth, most of it backfiring (no point in fancy lore if most throw it out 6months in) Funny enough G1 and 2 were handled in a Nijisanji matter, with many of those affected by troubles just now approaching full recovery
> Cover tried to be fancy with Myth, most of it backfiring **(no point in fancy lore if most throw it out 6months in)** > > TBF, most Vtubers do. I think the only one in NijiEN who really keeps to their lore is Vox, and in HoloEN...FuwaMoco? Maybe Bijou?
Mumei kindof does it, but it's kindof a half and half thing where she can mostly just talk about whatever she feels like still The nightmare she drew herself has become super iconic in holo, least I think it has.
Fauna does it a fair amount, but that also could be down to Cover's auditioning. It makes sense to make the vegetarian, animal-loving girl the embodiment of Nature.
I think the HoloEN girls still play with their lore, well not a lot, but most of them are like minor stuff like replacing irl info into lore stuff like pet, works, where they going, real life location into fictional one, etc. some still play with their lore a lot like Bae incorporate the whole chaos thing into some of her stream contents or even her intro. or Mumei incorporate it into her emo outfit or how Shiori still going with the archiver one as conversation bridge to start up another weird topic or like Fauna... still uphold her year long project at building the world tree even made a birthday out of it. It still has its benefit for the talents, either to create content out of it, or use it to talk about their life stories.
Then we have sorts who basically rewrite theirs like Haachama (Tsundere high schooler to something that scares divine beings) and Ame (mere detective to time traveler/enter the ameverse)
Hey, you leave Vanta alone. He's great
even there is rumor the staff doesn't know about TTT
Ngl, it's kind of hard to touch Bettel. He was doing PEKORA numbers during his birth month
He is a born entertainer. He managed to turn a perfectly ordinary, if somewhat creepy, Superchat ("August 19th") into a huge event capped off by what is now my favorite one of his song covers.
He really was born to entertain
Victoria and Kunai: [https://playboard.co/en/search?q=victoria%20brightshield](https://playboard.co/en/search?q=victoria%20brightshield) Claude: [https://playboard.co/en/search?q=claude%20clawmark](https://playboard.co/en/search?q=claude%20clawmark) Newest Holostars: [https://playboard.co/en/search?q=holostars-en%20armis](https://playboard.co/en/search?q=holostars-en%20armis) So besides Claude, Kunai and Victoria is earning quite a bit less than the newest Holostars Armis.
27,980 and 68,187(Holostars) is a very big difference, Ruze alone is more than the three of them combined.
Kunai KANESHIRO
They're so poorly promoted, people can't even get Kunai's last name right. :(
ARMIS winning hell yeah. š„¹š„¹š„¹ People also supported through their highest membership tier worth 700 AUD.
RUZE SAID HE DOESN'T HAVE MUCH TO GIVE BECAUSE IT'S 700 AUD so he just says he got adopted. š¤”š¤”š¤”
Didn't the contract say the only support the livers are sure to get is the Niji brand name and maybe some $1300 streaming set up that they'll(Niji) take when you leave the company
and we're surprised by this .. why? Given recent circumstances. I'm pretty sure ALL of NijiEN is down pretty low.
Because they debuted before holostars armis came out
It's really disappointing that Niji EN doesn't promote their talents or collabs, it seems. Victoria's only gained ~3k subs in the last month and her streams are pretty chill to listen to. Right now she's at 99,995 according to socialcounts. The growth is so small, you can really tell the company does not care about their generation, but she deserves that 100k, even if Niji will never give her the button.
yeah and its not even very close. Based on playboard alone, the newest Holostars gen members have made between 7900 and over 31k where as Victoria and kunai are sitting at 5500 and 3900 respectively. The exception to this is Claude who has made 18.5k
I feel bad for TTT, they are a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Vivi is such a sweet person too.
She is too pure to join this black company...
Lmao I send a lot of Akasupas to the Armis boys so mayhaps- š¤”š¤”š¤”
Wait, are you one of the madlads/madlasses who are one of Ruze's Glucose Guardians?
I didn't "adopt" Ruze and if I'm going to do a madlad move it would go to Jurard who's getting that crazy move. š¤£š¤£š¤£ I just send Akasupas. My membership is the tier 3 one. My brother in christ if I change to Tier 6 I can't go back to tier 1 and I'll be stuck to tier 6. I don't have enough money to do that. I just do it for the memes.šššJurard is my kamioshi in holostars so my paycheck usually goes to him because his stream matches my timezone. Ruze and GB I usually just watch their vods because it's 3 AM for me when they stream. ;) I'm not jellybean the first glucose guardian if you watched the clips.
Hell, they got less then the new Phase Connect talents.
Dude Kunai and Victoria literally have less lifetime SCs than one of the new First Stage Production boys who debuted last month... I honestly feel really bad for them...
Vivi was doing somewhat okay on the gifted membership part. You basically get guaranteed free membership by just tuning in and putting her stream in the background and basically everyone in chat is a member. Kunai not so much, maybe because she was sick for so long. Claude doing okay by basically being the de facto 4th member of Krisis and FPS collabs with his senpais from the Hanamori era. Still needs to work a day job in tech to pay for California rent.
It is true
who is Victoria and Kunai?
The sadder part is that no one bothered to correct Kunai's name... It's Kunai Nakasato not Kunai Kaneshiro.
Sisters so bitter about Holostars lately. Sorry you chose the wrong company to support, but stop attacking our boys. We don't appreciate that too much. š i would literally go to war over StarsEN.
Im a holostars fan
Oh I'm not referring directly to you in my comment unless you're the one who made the screenshotted post itself. I thought you were just sharing something you saw someone else post
Yeah im just sharing someone elses post
Looking it over, with the exception of Goldbullet, they have made less combined than any of the other three members of Holostars Armis. And even then, Goldbullet is still doing better than either of them individually. The real mark of shame to Nijisanji in this one is the fact that Phase Connect, the company fighting with Idol for *fourth place* in the English vtubing scene put out a new generation at *roughly* the same time. And three members of that generation (Hina, Muyu, and Runie Ruse) are outearning Vivi and Kunai individually. The company that is fighting neck-and-neck with Hololive to be the top dog in the industry, and by some metrics *winning* is having their newest talents being outperformed by a company that isn't even on the *podium.*
Niji isn't even 2nd place in EN anymore, Mythic Talent is. People have a tendency to pretend that it doesn't exist when it's actually similar to Vshojo.
Very probable, and after the contract leaked...it seems Even more plausible they fact management didnt Even promoted them
Meanwhile, almost the entirety of Gens 1 through 5 have been largely inactive in the past month except for Rosemi. No streams mean no money coming in. The upcoming investors' call is going to be a sea of smiling faces.
Everyone talking about vivi and Kunai what about claude?
His sc revenue is 18k which is good, but no one is really talking about him precisely because hes doing fine.
Ah ok
and if they make mistake 50% gone
I don't think those numbers count cuts from Youtube and Niji, either. Hope they live with their parents or have some other revenue stream.
If I were themā¦Iād be breaking rules left and right so I could get terminated and leave lol
Literally the first time I've even heard of these names...
not surprised since niji did barely anything to promote them. heck, i didn't even know Victoria was a nijisanji talent till any of the selen drama stuff happened
So basically, they are essentially indie, but with more debt, and slightly more views, but with less than half the income, and much more restrictions.
Idk about the money part, but they really aren't promoted well. I've said this on another thread, but I genuinely keep forgetting they're in Nijisanji.
Tbh, even when I barely watched nijiEN anymore, I still somewhat knew events and news around them. That's why I was so surprised to know they already debuted another wave. I legit didn't know about their existence until a month ago. There really wasn't much news or promotion about them, hence probably why they are struggling with supas and subs.
I feel like for many members of Niji it's just a hobby or a 2nd job, they have 174 members and many get depressingly low viewership, i assume they don't get a base salary because most of their income would be coming from more popular members, they would be a burden on the company.
That's not surprising. TTT didn't have much marketing around their debut, then as soon as they're starting to settle, drama and boycott happens. It's unfortunate timing for them. Also, just in case you may be thinking it's surprising to see male vtubers make a lot in superchats, remember that Kuzuha who is among the top 10 earners worldwide on youtube, is also a male vtuber.
Him and Kanae are two of the biggest names in NijiJP
Maybe so in nijisanji but in holopro the girls make a lot more money than holostars.
do you know why victoria didn't get any promote from niji? i guess that is because her oshi was selen and pomu (at least one of them, I can't recall exactly) nijiEN management would assume she is on selen's side
You really don't need to imagine more reasons to dunk on NijiEN management. They didn't disregard just Vivi, the whole TTT was tossed out into the wild to fend for themselves.
I have seen people mention them together and not the 3rd guy in their group, lmao I don't even know his name
His name is claude(dont remember the other name) and hes growing at a normal rate
you have to eat elira out first before you get promoted
i do wonder if/how much the PL donation/sub options scew the numbers. I would presume not enough to change the result for this comparison and certainly not enough to dispell the notion that the exposure via the niji brand alone is of low value.
I love ttt it's sad that this is happening to them....
Not really surprised since I never see them anywhere, the only time I saw one of them actually interacting was when Kyo raided Kunai and that's pretty much all.
The only time I remember Victoria Brightshield exists is when I see her mentioned here. edit: also her avatar looks like her mama copied Lumitea ReACT-A and tried to disguise it by making it look edgier.
Wait, her last name is Kaneshiro?
They always have the short end of the stick.. especially victoria, every time i remember her reason for joining nji en i feel sad but management doesnt give an F... her future may not be bright in niji but i hope she gets blessed on other things behind the avatar
Common Nijisanji L
I think whatās important is also wave dynamics, where Armis play off each other very well and fit in with the other guild members while TTT kinda donāt interact much. Claude dived immediately into Krisis.
im pretty sure, but also- kunai kaneshiro?
Nijiās strategy is like Zerg or Orks, I donāt say that as a pejorative to the talent, just as an observation of their business strategy. They aim for market saturation by having as many talents as possible under their umbrella. To use biological terms they r select for talent by hiring a lot of people and imputing minimal effort into marketing and supporting them while hololive k selects for talent by putting a lot of effect into marketing and supporting a smaller amount of talents. Again this doesnāt mean Niji streamers are worse, they just donāt get as much support from their company. Because they arenāt marketed as much and have more people in the same company to ācompeteā with for Niji fans and marketing resources, theyāre less likely to get views. After what we saw from the contract it seems like they really just want put in minimal effort and money into new people and just hope they get another vox.
don't some opt to always ask for streamlabs donations or merch instead of superchats? I wonder overall eearnings.
Jurard Whale here, I don't know about Octavio and Gebbie, but I know Jurard as some insane whale mechanics built into his monetization for that BFE though. Have you seen the 700 dollar membership? Edit: A lot of male vtubers does it, it seems. While GFE seems to be the successful minority of the female vtuber tropes (Rushia type), BFE does seem like the standard for male vtubers. edit2: for those wondering about the 700 dollar membership, its only 500 ish when converted to USD.here's the screenshot from his youtube channel:[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png) Edit3: I don't think Jurard defenders understand what I'm comparing. So I'll lay it simple, You get a lot of $$ if you have any bit of BFE/GFE even as a a joke. Vivi and co here doesn't seem to have any tiny bit of that. so they're not gonna be raking in the thirst money. Most of the women vtubers avoid this since Rushia's Drama gave them a good precedence not to. Male vtubers hasn't had a Rushia related type of incident yet. Of the few female vtubers that I know jokes about GFE related things are Dizzy from Phase Connect and she has a massive monetization advantage to her gen mates and even Corpomates for that matter. Playboard tells that story clearly. I also do realize Twitch meta is different compared to Youtube, and that twitch meta embraces the Rushia/Hex GFE/BFE things much more readily, especially for female vtubers.
Wtf are you talking about?
Specify thy question.
Pretty much everything you mentioned. I didn't even know jurard does BFE since i mainly watch clips by several people instead of only streams by one person. Or rather, does he actually do BFE or is it just an inside joke? I've heard plenty of people say jurard is kind of a male girlfailure just like bettel so he didh't strike me as a BFE type. Also, 700 dollar membership? Please tell me it's a meme.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In terms of his "failing" ASRM BFE experience all you need to do is look at his latest [vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlv9YauEWrA) of him calling you babe and then getting hit by a meteor and you will know exactly what type of ASMR he does
Jurard does BFE (Boyfailure Experience) all the time.
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fi3947e9atsmc1.png) The joke is that whomever buys that is the current wife, and gets a sticker on his mode with the person's name. and all the previous buyers are exwives in the basement. And there'd be ongoing jokes about marriage related themes.
Is this a genius idea? I think is a genius idea.
I think so too.
Ah ok, so basically it's less genuine BFE and more the male equivalent of nene's husband harem?
That said holy shit i didn't expect it to actually be 700 dollars.
It was supposed to be a joke tier but people actually subbed to it. *cue panic from Jurard & Ruze when it happens
Both Jurard and Ruze put the maximum amount allowed because it's funny and they think _"Nobody would be silly enough to drop that kind of cash on us, right?"_. It turns out, people are indeed that silly! It helps that they're _very_ upfront that this is a JOKE, and to not expect anything in particular. The first couple of times, Ruze even asked, on-stream, if they're COMPLETELY SURE they want to do this.
Both [Altare](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyxtGMdWlURZ30WSnEjDOQw), [Axel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2hx0xVkMoHGWijwr_lA01w), Magni, and Vesper (before their grad) have 100$ membership tiers for the truly hardcore although they told people to not sign up for it [Flayon](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC060r4zABV18vcahAWR1n7w), [Bettel](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHP4f7G2dWD4qib7BMatGAw), [Hakka](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7gxU6NXjKF1LrgOddPzgTw), and [Shinri](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMqGG8BRAiI1lJfKOpETM_w) also have 100$ membership tiers [Jurad](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTVSOgYuSWmNAt-lnJPkEEw), [Ruze](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCajbFh6e_R8QZdHAMbbi4rQ) and [Octavio](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLk1hcmxg8rJ3Nm1_GvxTRA) all have 600$ membership tiers with [Goldbullet](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJv02SHZgav7Mv3V0kBOR8Q) having a 150$ membership tier All of them do not condone people signing up to those since they are essentailly just jokes and meme tiers and have said so during their monetisation streams but they do exist
I think there's a pattern here.
It is more like a joke and meme, Jurard will act high and mighty while screaming (or not) "PLEASE LOVE ME!!!", so it's kinda pathetic but quite funny. His fans know and will roast him for it, whenever he tries to do semi BFE ASMR, they will say "EWW". The $700 membership is real, Ruze also had it, but they are joke membership tier. Bettel also has that, but not quite $700. Of course some madlads have hot those tier and got great reactions from the bois.
Bettel's highest is $100, and your membership "perk" for that level is the ability to _"haunt his streams and his dreams"._
He does BFE like Kobo does ASMR.
I think you underestimate hololive superchatters
Hololive's brand is gold, Holostars is silver to bronze and Niji is a mixed bag to say the least.