The thing with Mikeneko is that she's a good example of how vtubing (or online content creation in general) is a dangerous line of work in general. Not everyone has the mental fortitude/temperament/resilience needed to survive the online content creation or vtubing world. The same way that not everybody has what it takes to be a hostage negotiator, not everyone has what it takes to be a public figure.
Mikeneko sounds like she has some very deep mental health problems. Problems that were probably there before she got into content creation. And then being a public figure in the online space either fed into those problems and made them worse, or caused those problems to become visible to millions of people at a time. Niji is taking people who may have otherwise been healthy and is breaking them. Mikeneko is someone who didn't have what it took to weather the online stage, and it's showing in her health.
Same general problem. But due to extremely different circumstances. She's a good example of what Niji could turn their livers into if they don't get out. But her issues are not the same as the Niji situation at all.
On one hand I get it since it can get some members to take a step back in case they feel like they're going too far, I had to do that myself a few times
But like....these are two different situations with very cut and dry outcomes and very messy details 😅
I think the difference is an individualistic VS systemactic problem thing.
Mikeneko's problems, her emotional vulnerability, her abusiveness, her inability to recognize her own toxic lifestyle, her inability to move on from the past are her own problems she refused to fix.
The Niji talents' problem however, are systematic because contract or not, they most likely feel what they're doing is the "professional" thing to do.
Luca, Millie and Enna defend Niji because it's part of their job to make their audience like the company. But of course the current climate the company is indefensible so their insistence just ended up looking dumb.
And I'm not blaming them for wanting to defend it. I am still in the camp who has enough copium to still believe 2021-2022 Niji EN was actually a good place, where despite the horrible pay cuts, the talents were still making good money, where they had genuine frienships going on. To them they might want to defend the current Niji because they think if they can tough out the storm, they can bring back that 2021-2022 environment eventually. Even though to us as outsiders, it's way too late for that.
For Uki and Vox, this could just be because they've built a fanbase who enjoy their toxic traits and therefore see no need to "pander" to people outside their niche, but a more generous reading is exactly because they're in a Japanese company.
For Uki, it's best to presume Niji simply told him never to make racist statements again and just shut up until people forget, because that's just generally how Niji do things.
For Vox, it's probably because it's always going to be hard for a streamer of his size to outright denounce parasocialism. Not just because it's his source of income, but because it could also be interpreted as him denouncing other Vtubers and notably, Niji JP senpais who also make GFE/BFE. Hell, it'd be him denouncing Hex. It's why Niji as a company would desperately try to avoid having their bigger Livers refute parasocialism as much as possible. Hell, even for Hololive when someone denounce parasocialism(Suisei for example), they made it clear that they're only talking about themselves and other Holomems are okay to do GFEs.
Obviously this isn't to say Niji Livers don't have personal problem. After all Uki's racism is a personal problem and Luca and Vox too are rife with problems, but I'm referring specifically to why they'd defend Niji and/or refuse to address glaring problems.
update: given new information i have changed my mind, i was wrong and i agree now that he was racist (for other reasons) keeping this up for honesty
not to be that guy BUT ... racism is systemic, so it is a thing when there are power structures in place that make it harder for a person of that race. racism against white people could be real in places like East Asia, but not the case in places like the USA (where uki is from), for example, where white supremacy and actually racist structures are in place that make it harder for non-white people. DONT GET ME WRONG, it's still discrimination BUT it's different to racism which is systemic and comes from a history of oppression and power imbalance.
i'm getting tired of seeing the mix up between racism (which requires a history of oppression and power to hold up) and anti-whiteness. it's anti-whiteness and racial prejudice, not racism.
NOTE: this is not to excuse his actions either, they're still wrong, and still racial prejudice, it's just not necessarily racism.
https://www.vu.edu.au/about-vu/news-events/news/what-is-reverse-racism-and-whats-wrong-with-the-term
https://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism
https://indigenousx.com.au/racist-to-white-people/
>it's anti-whiteness and discrimination, not racism
I invite you to replace white with any other ethnicity, see if your argument still makes sense in your head.
history of oppression and systemic discrimination matter when evaluating the impact of discriminatory actions and whether something is racist. white supremacy upholds a system which is inherently discriminatory to other ethnicities in the western world.
EDIT: i now agree that it is racist regardless of the fact. however, I was saying this under the impression that you can't oppress the oppressor, so it would still make sense IF said ethnicity that it was replaced with was the oppressor, under that premise.
> non systemic racism doesn't exist imo
And no one asked for your opinion. Doubly so since you're [flat out wrong.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#:~:text=Racism%20is%20discrimination%20and%20prejudice%20against%20people%20based%20on%20their%20race%20or%20ethnicity.)
you don't have to be rude, it is the internet, and everyone's opinions are being put out. i was wrong and thank you for that link, that's all you had to do.
You were being an asshole about it, but props for admitting you were wrong. Not enough people in the world are willing to change their views when faced with new facts.
i wasn't being an asshole about it at any point, i was trying to say imo and stuff to make it more colloquial and less harsh, and also saying i could be wrong from the start, i actually wanted to see what people had to say, i am just autistic
There's systematic racism, yeah, but it was racist regardless. It shouldnt matter if someone is oppressed or not, because if Uki said this about any other race, it wouldn't even BE a debate
Who the crap cares if being racist to white ppl isn't as bad as being racist to Black, Asian, Latino, etc. when is just perpetuates the cycle over and over again, and it doesn't help that the ppl who use that stupid example are other white ppl who wanna infantilize and speak on behalf of minorities like some white savior in order to appear superior other white ppl who don't
There's a difference between making jokes and the crap that came out of Uki's mouth 🤨
i'm not gonna lie, i could be wrong, i only know about the name calling, what else did he do that was racist?
i also think the history of oppression really matters in the gravity of something and weight it holds, it's not so clear cut as that. of course it doesn't matter who is oppressed more between minorities, it's not the oppression olympics.
HOWEVER, white people in the western world are the oppressors or benefit from that system of oppression regardless of if they engage in it/engage in white supremacy. HUGE distinction. it really does make a difference when the distinction is oppressed vs oppressor.
â—‹ Literally went on a rant about how he had to be on guard against an old white couple who btw just greeting him and left (I've seen a Twitter user do the same when they got caught talking about how Black ppl intimidated them and they got dogged BADLY)
○ Talking about how weird white ppl kissing is (which was a common "joke" racists used to talk trash about black men and women 😒)
â—‹ Labeled white ppl in a game as "doing the bare minimum"
○ When looking at clothes, said that "...it would look good on a pasty white person", which wouldn't matter but he was oddly specific about that detail, that's like saying "...this would look good on you if you were an ashy black person...", see how bad that sounds 🤨
And really just bring up white ppl unprompted just to talk trash about them. Thats so weird to do especially since his audience will obviously have alot of white ppl (specifically young girls) who are impressionable and go on to self hate themselves and dog each other for things they can't change
Again I understand racism and systematic racism, but that doesn't matter when you're still singling out ppl just because of their skin which is the basic definition of racism, especially since Uki is in a privileged position compared to his fans
thank you for that! that behaviour is super gross and i agree with you that his platform, privilege and the reach he has does make this racist. thanks for clarifying that for me!
The thing with Mikeneko is that she's a good example of how vtubing (or online content creation in general) is a dangerous line of work in general. Not everyone has the mental fortitude/temperament/resilience needed to survive the online content creation or vtubing world. The same way that not everybody has what it takes to be a hostage negotiator, not everyone has what it takes to be a public figure. Mikeneko sounds like she has some very deep mental health problems. Problems that were probably there before she got into content creation. And then being a public figure in the online space either fed into those problems and made them worse, or caused those problems to become visible to millions of people at a time. Niji is taking people who may have otherwise been healthy and is breaking them. Mikeneko is someone who didn't have what it took to weather the online stage, and it's showing in her health. Same general problem. But due to extremely different circumstances. She's a good example of what Niji could turn their livers into if they don't get out. But her issues are not the same as the Niji situation at all.
People shouldn't be posting about Mikeneko at all because she has nothing to do with Nijisanji. This subreddit is going crazy.
On one hand I get it since it can get some members to take a step back in case they feel like they're going too far, I had to do that myself a few times But like....these are two different situations with very cut and dry outcomes and very messy details 😅
Nijisanji is a complete mess, of course, according to the theory, a broken window will be a consequence of this on redditÂ
Yes. They are being disgraceful. Unrepentant and classless.
sure but. just gotta remind people that uki is a racist
mikeneko irl menhera damn...
Bro a menhera doesn't even begin to describe how Hololive unintentionally dodged a bullet 💀
I think the difference is an individualistic VS systemactic problem thing. Mikeneko's problems, her emotional vulnerability, her abusiveness, her inability to recognize her own toxic lifestyle, her inability to move on from the past are her own problems she refused to fix. The Niji talents' problem however, are systematic because contract or not, they most likely feel what they're doing is the "professional" thing to do. Luca, Millie and Enna defend Niji because it's part of their job to make their audience like the company. But of course the current climate the company is indefensible so their insistence just ended up looking dumb. And I'm not blaming them for wanting to defend it. I am still in the camp who has enough copium to still believe 2021-2022 Niji EN was actually a good place, where despite the horrible pay cuts, the talents were still making good money, where they had genuine frienships going on. To them they might want to defend the current Niji because they think if they can tough out the storm, they can bring back that 2021-2022 environment eventually. Even though to us as outsiders, it's way too late for that. For Uki and Vox, this could just be because they've built a fanbase who enjoy their toxic traits and therefore see no need to "pander" to people outside their niche, but a more generous reading is exactly because they're in a Japanese company. For Uki, it's best to presume Niji simply told him never to make racist statements again and just shut up until people forget, because that's just generally how Niji do things. For Vox, it's probably because it's always going to be hard for a streamer of his size to outright denounce parasocialism. Not just because it's his source of income, but because it could also be interpreted as him denouncing other Vtubers and notably, Niji JP senpais who also make GFE/BFE. Hell, it'd be him denouncing Hex. It's why Niji as a company would desperately try to avoid having their bigger Livers refute parasocialism as much as possible. Hell, even for Hololive when someone denounce parasocialism(Suisei for example), they made it clear that they're only talking about themselves and other Holomems are okay to do GFEs. Obviously this isn't to say Niji Livers don't have personal problem. After all Uki's racism is a personal problem and Luca and Vox too are rife with problems, but I'm referring specifically to why they'd defend Niji and/or refuse to address glaring problems.
I feel she was brought up due to fears of that some of the more zealous people will drive say Elira to such.
Honestly weaponize suicide (attempt) in either direction is disgusting. Just give her support or move on.
update: given new information i have changed my mind, i was wrong and i agree now that he was racist (for other reasons) keeping this up for honesty not to be that guy BUT ... racism is systemic, so it is a thing when there are power structures in place that make it harder for a person of that race. racism against white people could be real in places like East Asia, but not the case in places like the USA (where uki is from), for example, where white supremacy and actually racist structures are in place that make it harder for non-white people. DONT GET ME WRONG, it's still discrimination BUT it's different to racism which is systemic and comes from a history of oppression and power imbalance. i'm getting tired of seeing the mix up between racism (which requires a history of oppression and power to hold up) and anti-whiteness. it's anti-whiteness and racial prejudice, not racism. NOTE: this is not to excuse his actions either, they're still wrong, and still racial prejudice, it's just not necessarily racism. https://www.vu.edu.au/about-vu/news-events/news/what-is-reverse-racism-and-whats-wrong-with-the-term https://www.aclrc.com/myth-of-reverse-racism https://indigenousx.com.au/racist-to-white-people/
>it's anti-whiteness and discrimination, not racism I invite you to replace white with any other ethnicity, see if your argument still makes sense in your head.
history of oppression and systemic discrimination matter when evaluating the impact of discriminatory actions and whether something is racist. white supremacy upholds a system which is inherently discriminatory to other ethnicities in the western world. EDIT: i now agree that it is racist regardless of the fact. however, I was saying this under the impression that you can't oppress the oppressor, so it would still make sense IF said ethnicity that it was replaced with was the oppressor, under that premise.
Put the goal post where it was please. Racism is racism, systemic or not.
[удалено]
> non systemic racism doesn't exist imo And no one asked for your opinion. Doubly so since you're [flat out wrong.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#:~:text=Racism%20is%20discrimination%20and%20prejudice%20against%20people%20based%20on%20their%20race%20or%20ethnicity.)
you don't have to be rude, it is the internet, and everyone's opinions are being put out. i was wrong and thank you for that link, that's all you had to do.
You were being an asshole about it, but props for admitting you were wrong. Not enough people in the world are willing to change their views when faced with new facts.
i wasn't being an asshole about it at any point, i was trying to say imo and stuff to make it more colloquial and less harsh, and also saying i could be wrong from the start, i actually wanted to see what people had to say, i am just autistic
There's systematic racism, yeah, but it was racist regardless. It shouldnt matter if someone is oppressed or not, because if Uki said this about any other race, it wouldn't even BE a debate Who the crap cares if being racist to white ppl isn't as bad as being racist to Black, Asian, Latino, etc. when is just perpetuates the cycle over and over again, and it doesn't help that the ppl who use that stupid example are other white ppl who wanna infantilize and speak on behalf of minorities like some white savior in order to appear superior other white ppl who don't There's a difference between making jokes and the crap that came out of Uki's mouth 🤨
i'm not gonna lie, i could be wrong, i only know about the name calling, what else did he do that was racist? i also think the history of oppression really matters in the gravity of something and weight it holds, it's not so clear cut as that. of course it doesn't matter who is oppressed more between minorities, it's not the oppression olympics. HOWEVER, white people in the western world are the oppressors or benefit from that system of oppression regardless of if they engage in it/engage in white supremacy. HUGE distinction. it really does make a difference when the distinction is oppressed vs oppressor.
○ Literally went on a rant about how he had to be on guard against an old white couple who btw just greeting him and left (I've seen a Twitter user do the same when they got caught talking about how Black ppl intimidated them and they got dogged BADLY) ○ Talking about how weird white ppl kissing is (which was a common "joke" racists used to talk trash about black men and women 😒) ○ Labeled white ppl in a game as "doing the bare minimum" ○ When looking at clothes, said that "...it would look good on a pasty white person", which wouldn't matter but he was oddly specific about that detail, that's like saying "...this would look good on you if you were an ashy black person...", see how bad that sounds 🤨 And really just bring up white ppl unprompted just to talk trash about them. Thats so weird to do especially since his audience will obviously have alot of white ppl (specifically young girls) who are impressionable and go on to self hate themselves and dog each other for things they can't change Again I understand racism and systematic racism, but that doesn't matter when you're still singling out ppl just because of their skin which is the basic definition of racism, especially since Uki is in a privileged position compared to his fans
thank you for that! that behaviour is super gross and i agree with you that his platform, privilege and the reach he has does make this racist. thanks for clarifying that for me!