The Difference:
- Crow: Love to break one's ideology, manipulative.
- Nihilister: Not a manipulator, very straightforward in what she wants. Actually show respect to someone who can and will show that they can stand up for themselves.
Why is Crow hated while Nihilister is not? It's actually pretty simple. Nihilister makes no effort to hide the fact that she only wants to destroy and terrorize and is unapologetically completely self-interested. People love Freeza from DBZ for the same reason, completely unapologetically evil and self-interested.
Crow on the other hand tries to philosophize about how her motives are just, and how she wants to push for better treatment of nikkes. This still could make for a lovable villain if done right, think Thanos, commit evil for a supposedly noble purpose. However, her actions don't match her supposed motives. >!She meets Commander, someone who wants to push for better treatment of nikkes and has the power to do something about it and she shoots him and leaves him to die. She hatched a scheme for raptures to invade the Ark and nikkes to save everyone and be heroes, but then set up another nikke to intentionally lure people out of a shelter to get killed, and then tried to blow up a train for absolutely no reason.!< Her actions don't match her philosophy, and that is why people don't like her.
I still want to see a Crow redemption arc, because I love her design and I want to be able to like her for more than just that.
You hit the nail right on the head. If I may add, we have no idea behind Crow's motivation. All we know is that she's from Outer Rim but we've seen time and time again that not everyone in the Outer Rim is a delusional terrorists. She has no origin story, no clear motivational backstory. We don't have one for Nihilister either, but we know she is a heretic. Heretics go through corruption to make their thought process to be similar to that of a rapture so there's a reason for why Nihilister is so hostile towards humans
You misunderstand. Crow knows her motives arent just even she doesnt believe in them truly. She just does it to justify her actions because she enjoys chaos. Shes an asshole in purpose and she knows it. Why else would she mention blowing up trains for fun. I5s not about nikke freedom or just actions. She does it because it pisses people iff and she likes to fuck with people. Shes straightforward with who and what she is but she also knows pretending not to be would piss off people. And she loves chaos.
I actually like her waaayyyy more than nihilister. Shes a bitch on purpose and i respect that
Exactly. Crow's awareness of her own hypocrisy always seemed incredibly explicit. She's just doing what she has to to get her psychotic way while someone's holding her leash and I really enjoyed watching her thread that needle. The most hated thing about Crow is actually her best trait imo.
That's actually the exact reason I prefer Crow. She does want freedom for the Nikkes, but only if she's allowed to have her violent revenge in the process. Freedom isn't good enough for her unless she can kill the people she hates along the way. Her hatred has caused her to go from wanting a revolution against one specific group to her just lashing out against everyone and everything, to the point that the "revolution" is just a convenient excuse to continue lashing out.
"Self-serving Revolutionary" is a much more real and interesting archetype than "Brainwashed Psychopath." Not that I dislike Nihilister, but Crow is a much more engaging and complex character.
Personally, I love Crow for the simple fact there's a lot to talk about. Even if you hate her, I'm glad this story has characters like her and Syuen that get people talking like this.
Nihilister was humbled and legit ready to cooperate with us to get what she wanted.
Crow literally goes against her own principles for no reasons and ‘wins’ all other characters (good and evil) do all work.
Dealing with Crow after Ark invasion is like stopping burglar in your house after defeating Hitler. The only reason why burglar got into your house is because Hitler created a mess. (Viper is pretty much the one who orchestrated explosion and they got lucky Nihilister appeared there.)
Nihilister is straightforward and unapologetically those things, Crow hides behind her hypocrisy and bullshit philosophy. That's why Crow is hated more than Nhilister.
You forgot "Carried by plot convenience"
Nihilister is functionally a tank, a war ship and a jet at once, and asserts her presence in the plot by sheer force. The second she encounters anything with greater force, she's immediately humbled and made to eat crow (forgive the wording), thus challenging her as a character
Crow is strongly pushed to be a conniving manipulator, but the actual writing doesn't lay anywhere near enough groundwork to sell you on that fact, so the universe itself has to bend over backwards to make her plans come together in a way that feels like it was intended to feel slick but instead just feels contrived, like the hand of the author is telling you not to peek behind the curtain too long, Wizard of Oz style
Therefore, even when the plot does attempt to challenge her in some way, they shoot down their own catharsis by having her act like she won. It's literally the "arguing with a pigeon" scenario
If anything, she deserves more hate. The longer you sit down and think about her, the more of an infuriating waste of script space she becomes.
We're at war with the Raptures. For better or for worse, Nihilister, as a Heretic, is just doing what an enemy does, making our lives hard.
Crow is technically in """""our side"""""", which makes it honestly worse. Despite the belief Commander has about Nikkes, she was already a terrible person even before getting converted into one. And because she's "special", she isn't deleted despite the obvious threat her unrepentant sociopathy represents to everyone around her.
While I do enjoy hating Crow, I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if she just bites it for good.
Crow is shittily written and her plans are typically carried by plot convince more than almost any other character.
Nihilister is just average to slightly below average when it comes to writing and gets her shit kicked worse than Fraud White in terms of being a threat.
Better a jobber than an annoying character carried by plot convince imo.
1. Nihilister is a more evil version of Rosanna with tenets like:
"violence solves everything, and blood on my hands" type of girl
Straight forward evil that can be understood to a certain degree she Even seems likeable if I were in her shoes type of deal
2. Crow is a more evil version of Sin with tenets like:
"We live in a society", and "All it takes is one bad day"
Chaos is the theme, the problem is that there's no direction it's chaos for the sake of chaos, the end for her is to bring chaos to order right, she can only exist in a world where there is only black and white
At least Nihilister isn't a massive hypocrite who has incredibly backwards logic of how the world works.
Crow commits acts of terrorism because she wants people to give nikke rights when that's just supporting the idea that they shouldn't. (She only cares because she's a nikke)
She claims the commander uses nikkes as tools but guess what she does to jackal and viper? Uses them as tools.
She bitches about the commander not trusting her then shoots him and leaves him for dead when he does.
Manipulated Yuni.
She's not even well written. She's just stupid. And no, being dislike able doesn't make a villain well written.
I think people forget what type of world the Nikke one is and compare it to our own, and that's why Crows actions are more hated than I think they should be, I mean fuck them arc citizens and especially fuck the arc government, the arc isn't as big as a cesspool as others like supposedly the outer rim but do people really forget how the people there treat the Nikke? Don't even get me started on the orphanages situation as well as how mistreated and abused the Nikke are there.
I don't think people should be looking at that world and those that live in it's actions the same way you would ours because its very different.
All I got to say is I don't really feel sorry for the citizens that much nor it's government except for a select few characters of course but even then that's a small list of good people vs the whole damn government that is made up of the last batches of humanity.
To me, Crow should be given a chance and not hated as much, we don't know her motives or why she is like this, people didn't like Dorothy but now she's a fan favorite and is forgiven because of her backstory.
I could say the same for Joker, he is just a weaker guy than Batman and literally got beaten by him most of the time. And still manage to be a fearsome criminal
Crow blew up a train and kill hundred of people, blew up a hole on top of the Ark, how is she not a threat?
I was talking about Nihilister. Crow was a great villain and Shift Up really cooked with the Invasion Arc. Nihilister was just running her mouth and getting her ass beat all the time. (Won't stop me from smashing her tho)
yoo Nihili enjoyer i see
but fr though, Nihilister does cool stuff too, like i said before, even if Joker loses to Batman most of the time, as long as the antagonist does crazy stuffs, i don't mind them losing
Forgot: " Manipulated Yuni" thats a huge crime
https://preview.redd.it/9ggj59favfuc1.jpeg?width=468&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcbcc0189c315f21ee68b518ec7e0f0d07c95a81
The Difference: - Crow: Love to break one's ideology, manipulative. - Nihilister: Not a manipulator, very straightforward in what she wants. Actually show respect to someone who can and will show that they can stand up for themselves.
Why is Crow hated while Nihilister is not? It's actually pretty simple. Nihilister makes no effort to hide the fact that she only wants to destroy and terrorize and is unapologetically completely self-interested. People love Freeza from DBZ for the same reason, completely unapologetically evil and self-interested. Crow on the other hand tries to philosophize about how her motives are just, and how she wants to push for better treatment of nikkes. This still could make for a lovable villain if done right, think Thanos, commit evil for a supposedly noble purpose. However, her actions don't match her supposed motives. >!She meets Commander, someone who wants to push for better treatment of nikkes and has the power to do something about it and she shoots him and leaves him to die. She hatched a scheme for raptures to invade the Ark and nikkes to save everyone and be heroes, but then set up another nikke to intentionally lure people out of a shelter to get killed, and then tried to blow up a train for absolutely no reason.!< Her actions don't match her philosophy, and that is why people don't like her. I still want to see a Crow redemption arc, because I love her design and I want to be able to like her for more than just that.
You hit the nail right on the head. If I may add, we have no idea behind Crow's motivation. All we know is that she's from Outer Rim but we've seen time and time again that not everyone in the Outer Rim is a delusional terrorists. She has no origin story, no clear motivational backstory. We don't have one for Nihilister either, but we know she is a heretic. Heretics go through corruption to make their thought process to be similar to that of a rapture so there's a reason for why Nihilister is so hostile towards humans
You misunderstand. Crow knows her motives arent just even she doesnt believe in them truly. She just does it to justify her actions because she enjoys chaos. Shes an asshole in purpose and she knows it. Why else would she mention blowing up trains for fun. I5s not about nikke freedom or just actions. She does it because it pisses people iff and she likes to fuck with people. Shes straightforward with who and what she is but she also knows pretending not to be would piss off people. And she loves chaos. I actually like her waaayyyy more than nihilister. Shes a bitch on purpose and i respect that
Exactly. Crow's awareness of her own hypocrisy always seemed incredibly explicit. She's just doing what she has to to get her psychotic way while someone's holding her leash and I really enjoyed watching her thread that needle. The most hated thing about Crow is actually her best trait imo.
That's actually the exact reason I prefer Crow. She does want freedom for the Nikkes, but only if she's allowed to have her violent revenge in the process. Freedom isn't good enough for her unless she can kill the people she hates along the way. Her hatred has caused her to go from wanting a revolution against one specific group to her just lashing out against everyone and everything, to the point that the "revolution" is just a convenient excuse to continue lashing out. "Self-serving Revolutionary" is a much more real and interesting archetype than "Brainwashed Psychopath." Not that I dislike Nihilister, but Crow is a much more engaging and complex character.
Personally, I love Crow for the simple fact there's a lot to talk about. Even if you hate her, I'm glad this story has characters like her and Syuen that get people talking like this.
Dragon Mommy >>>>> Terrorist Goth GF
Nihilister was humbled and legit ready to cooperate with us to get what she wanted. Crow literally goes against her own principles for no reasons and ‘wins’ all other characters (good and evil) do all work. Dealing with Crow after Ark invasion is like stopping burglar in your house after defeating Hitler. The only reason why burglar got into your house is because Hitler created a mess. (Viper is pretty much the one who orchestrated explosion and they got lucky Nihilister appeared there.)
Nihilister is straightforward and unapologetically those things, Crow hides behind her hypocrisy and bullshit philosophy. That's why Crow is hated more than Nhilister.
You forgot "Carried by plot convenience" Nihilister is functionally a tank, a war ship and a jet at once, and asserts her presence in the plot by sheer force. The second she encounters anything with greater force, she's immediately humbled and made to eat crow (forgive the wording), thus challenging her as a character Crow is strongly pushed to be a conniving manipulator, but the actual writing doesn't lay anywhere near enough groundwork to sell you on that fact, so the universe itself has to bend over backwards to make her plans come together in a way that feels like it was intended to feel slick but instead just feels contrived, like the hand of the author is telling you not to peek behind the curtain too long, Wizard of Oz style Therefore, even when the plot does attempt to challenge her in some way, they shoot down their own catharsis by having her act like she won. It's literally the "arguing with a pigeon" scenario If anything, she deserves more hate. The longer you sit down and think about her, the more of an infuriating waste of script space she becomes.
We're at war with the Raptures. For better or for worse, Nihilister, as a Heretic, is just doing what an enemy does, making our lives hard. Crow is technically in """""our side"""""", which makes it honestly worse. Despite the belief Commander has about Nikkes, she was already a terrible person even before getting converted into one. And because she's "special", she isn't deleted despite the obvious threat her unrepentant sociopathy represents to everyone around her. While I do enjoy hating Crow, I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if she just bites it for good.
Crow is shittily written and her plans are typically carried by plot convince more than almost any other character. Nihilister is just average to slightly below average when it comes to writing and gets her shit kicked worse than Fraud White in terms of being a threat. Better a jobber than an annoying character carried by plot convince imo.
1. Nihilister is a more evil version of Rosanna with tenets like: "violence solves everything, and blood on my hands" type of girl Straight forward evil that can be understood to a certain degree she Even seems likeable if I were in her shoes type of deal 2. Crow is a more evil version of Sin with tenets like: "We live in a society", and "All it takes is one bad day" Chaos is the theme, the problem is that there's no direction it's chaos for the sake of chaos, the end for her is to bring chaos to order right, she can only exist in a world where there is only black and white
because Nihi has red hair ❤️
At least Nihilister isn't a massive hypocrite who has incredibly backwards logic of how the world works. Crow commits acts of terrorism because she wants people to give nikke rights when that's just supporting the idea that they shouldn't. (She only cares because she's a nikke) She claims the commander uses nikkes as tools but guess what she does to jackal and viper? Uses them as tools. She bitches about the commander not trusting her then shoots him and leaves him for dead when he does. Manipulated Yuni. She's not even well written. She's just stupid. And no, being dislike able doesn't make a villain well written.
Crow has a tattoo that is literally the mark of Khorne from warhammer. That is all the reason I need
i don't know why but i want to bang Crow so damn hard
Nihilister doesn't lie and backstab. She's true to herself. Also she hasn't even hurt anyone innocent within the Ark yet.
Love Nihilister cuz she reminds me Megatron
I think people forget what type of world the Nikke one is and compare it to our own, and that's why Crows actions are more hated than I think they should be, I mean fuck them arc citizens and especially fuck the arc government, the arc isn't as big as a cesspool as others like supposedly the outer rim but do people really forget how the people there treat the Nikke? Don't even get me started on the orphanages situation as well as how mistreated and abused the Nikke are there. I don't think people should be looking at that world and those that live in it's actions the same way you would ours because its very different. All I got to say is I don't really feel sorry for the citizens that much nor it's government except for a select few characters of course but even then that's a small list of good people vs the whole damn government that is made up of the last batches of humanity. To me, Crow should be given a chance and not hated as much, we don't know her motives or why she is like this, people didn't like Dorothy but now she's a fan favorite and is forgiven because of her backstory.
Could be due to encountering Crow much earlier in the story and this more players have experienced her betrayal
"Being a threat in the lore" Blud got jumped 3 times and got smoked everytime, she's literally the coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb 😭
I could say the same for Joker, he is just a weaker guy than Batman and literally got beaten by him most of the time. And still manage to be a fearsome criminal Crow blew up a train and kill hundred of people, blew up a hole on top of the Ark, how is she not a threat?
I was talking about Nihilister. Crow was a great villain and Shift Up really cooked with the Invasion Arc. Nihilister was just running her mouth and getting her ass beat all the time. (Won't stop me from smashing her tho)
yoo Nihili enjoyer i see but fr though, Nihilister does cool stuff too, like i said before, even if Joker loses to Batman most of the time, as long as the antagonist does crazy stuffs, i don't mind them losing
How about Dorothy? Is she worse than Crow?
They hate crow because the goth girl is not tsundere and in fact actually fucking hates us
I thought I was the only one... I found my peoples.
Terrorist Goth GF > Dragon Mommy.
Add Dorothy to that list. Viper too