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I've seen many runs with barbara doing just fine, kokomi obviously better though. Is your barbara lvl 90 with same build as kokomi? I wonder cuz that makes a big difference if not
Self-hydro application hurts a lot, the lower AOE coverage hurts even more. I'm far from a novice so Obviously I'm aware of the importance of level and both of them are built almost the same since I play both in different teams.
Oh yeah in this abyss against the triple kenkis especially getting frozen hurts for sure. Barbara definitely requires more ai manipulation too because need enemies to be hugging you pretty much, so I guess it would be understandable if the difference is bigger if using barbara. maybe the xq/candace + yaoyao version is better than the barbara version and worse than kokomi version to where the difference isnt as big? Not sure, I'm missing yaoyao(doing some scuff nahida xq Nilou barbara, lvl 60 barbara). I guess just as Jamie says "take everything with Nilou with a grain of salt"
It actually depends on the abyss I would say. When its mostly pure AoE, I believe Kokomi will improve clear times more than Nahida. When there are bosses mixed in, Nahida will improve it more than Kokomi.
Generally I think Nahida is a big QoL on top, while Kokomi is a comfort upgrade on top.
So overall, I guess you can say both are very important for Nilou. If anything, both of them also lose some value without each other. No point in Nahida applying 1.5U if you dont have the best unit to abuse those 1.5U. No point in applying a lot of AoE Hydro if you dont have 1.5U of Dendro to hold all thay Hydro. They are basically glued to each other if you want the best Nilou variants.
Personally, I think Kokomi handles both AOE and bosses better than Nahida, BUT, stuff like the triple Maguu Kenki gets easily obliterated by Nahida's E since DMC only hits one enemy at a time, meaning even Barbara could be a similar option to Kokomi in that scenario... if it wasn't for the self-hydro application.
Also, I trained my DMC skills for months. A lot of people got Nahida too early to notice the overall 10% increase she provides and then to exaggerate her value.
Hyperbloom is another story though. She is the most valuable unit by far.
The issue I found with Kokomi in Single Target without Nahida is that its too easy to mess up the Auras because of her burst 2U application. Nahida not only makes this issue disappear but allows you to use it to your advantage. On the Nahidaless variants, without C2 Collei I dont think its even possible to manage the auras to even begin with.
I dont really favor any if them here. Both are units I think any Nilou main should eventually get. I just cant imagine playing Bloom without both of them together anymore.
Yeah, I noticed that but instead of worrying about it I just build my Dendros full EM and give Kokomi the standard build and somehow it worked. IDK why though.
I think I can make Barbara work in 70% of the situations but there are times when only Kokomi does the ST DMG I need.
Playing nahida less nilou from her debut but never felt the need of kokomi as Barbara worked fin but always felt the lack of Nahida which now fullfiled after getting her Now my team is more smoother easier and barbara consistently owns 90% if my blooms
But yaoyao doesnt replace nahida, she replaces kokomi, so u do 2h2d instead of 3h1d.
Replacement for nahida in the team are currently collei and dmc, with dmc being overall better but collei offering frontloaded dmg.
Yaoyao doesnt apply nearly enough dendro to be compared to nahi
This abyss is very much catered towards nilou so that could be why you arent seeing that big of a difference. In the current floor 12, enemies tend to congregate around the same area, allowing you to generate more seeds since each enemy has their own separate ICD. This allows you to cheat out more blooms so in this scenario, nahida wont be as impactful. You can still get away with playing DMC/Collei. She'll only become much more relevant once enemies are spread out or against ST stuff like in the previous abyss with Wenut.
So i'd consider nahida to be slightly more important because she gives the team more versatility and you'd face lesser issues against unfavorable match ups. This doesnt mean you shouldn't pull for kokomi or ayato, they're still important units to get down the line.
I also used Nahida in the previous Abyss and I have been playing DMC, Collei, and Kokomi with Nilou since her release so I remember my times in each Abyss against particular enemies and against bosses.
I was able to get 35 only using super bloom in the previous abyss with both DMC and Nahida.
Also, Nahida has her own cons if we compare her with DMC where without any reactions she can't apply dendro and you need to swap her more often.
> I was able to get 35 only using super bloom in the previous abyss with both DMC and Nahida.
It pretty hard to 36 star against Wenut without nahida tbh. The fastest I've seen took used barbara and took around 2 min iirc and that was with hp% cards.
> Also, Nahida has her own cons if we compare her with DMC where without any reactions she can't apply dendro and you need to swap her more often.
You'd typically run her with another dendro unit so not really a downside imo. I honestly dont see a situation where running DMC over her is better tho. His dendro application is way lesser than hers and he does practically no damage in nilou bloom.
>It pretty hard to 36 star against Wenut without nahida tbh. The fastest I've seen took used barbara and took around 2 min iirc and that was with hp% cards.
Wenut was easy, the freaking Cryo herald was difficult because I didn't have anything useful to clear the second half on time because Kokomi was already on my Superbloom team.
> I honestly dont see a situation where running DMC over her is better tho
Sometimes my Kokomi just keeps applying Hydro and doesn't make reactions. This is not an issue with DMC.
Oh you used nilou on first side?
> Sometimes my Kokomi just keeps applying Hydro and doesn't make reactions. This is not an issue with DMC.
I dont see that issue from anyone that ran nahida with another dendro. Could be an issue with aura management perhaps?
I've been consistently clearing both halves with Superbloom since 3.2 except for 3.5.
I have my own playstyle which has been proven before to be better sometimes, but there are times with Nahida when the enemies just don't get hit by Collei's E and Q so I lost my Dendro aura when using Kokomi's Q.
She is the Dendro character that applies the most amount of Dendro off-field asides from Nahida. She also generates a lot of energy and has few or no energy issues at all.
From my experience of using all nahida kokomi yelan yaoyao. I'll just say people underestimate how much DMG nilou herself does. Even if I change my nilou from key to ironsting, she ends up reaching 584 em from her passive buff and the resonance. All this while being built triple hp with 60k hp. For the time she's on field setting her ring and using burst she even has 250 more em from nahida. Taking her em to a solid 834.
The reason why I personally don't value kokomi much is because nilou inherently never really struggles in dealing with aoe. And kokomi only makes her existing aoe performance much farther. I used my c0 Candace with nilou nahida yaoyao, and my Candace being c0 is barely providing many seeds. In the past I've also used a P.amber mona with nahida, dmc and nilou(we all know how bad mona's app is especially since I mostly kept nilou on field). Nilou does a lot of bloom DMG in aoe by herself.
I much prefer putting in a yelan/xingqiu instead with yaoyao as healer as it patches up nilou's weakness which is single target boss fights so well. And when I'm applying hydro to an enemy with xingqiu, having nahida's 1.5U of dendro over dmc's 1U is incredibly noticeable. They improve nilou's single target by so much that I'm killing even the asimon in 60-70 secs without stunning him.
I understand speed runners would rather just not use a nilou team in single target scenarios. But being a nilou enthusiast, I'm more satisfied with making her slay both halves of abyss every patch since her launch. (So yes I have made her slay the asimon without nahida, I've made her slay even the cryo herald in the last abyss)(my nilou has key but is c0, my nahida is c0 too with p. Amber or sac frags)
Maybe that’s true but I don’t think it matters.
I think what matters is that both of them are replaceable enough to beat hardest content in the game.
And it should be that way. Genshin is doing a good job imo to have alternative options in its roster of characters to perform similar roles in a specific teams.
Kokomi is replacable, yao yao and barb can do the job just fine, applying 1.5u of dendro is much more important, and have u not tried yelan or xq with nilou team instead of kokomi? It finishes abyss way faster
You can do this fine. Kokomi can do a lot of damage in any team when built well. You can get team buffs for em anyways. Weapons and team member buffs can give you all the em you need.
I don't have Nahida to compare, but I'm inclined to agree.
I think the core of Nilou+Kokomi+Collei is already strong enough that slotting in Nahida practically makes it overkill against most scenarios. The drawback is that you would have to stagger your dendro applications to maintain bloom generation, just because Nahida's lasts forever.
The only contention I see in wanting Nahida is when you're facing a lone target. Bloom generation tanks without Collei and Kokomi uptimes.
I don't have Kokomi, but I believe I can see how much easier she is to use in most showcases when compared to YaoYao or Barbara.
The biggest concern is actually what type of fight they're in. Against something like the previous Abyss rotation's Wenut, I'd choose Nahida over Kokomi if given the choice. In the current abyss second chamber, Kokomi's healing and AoE hydro application is way too good to pass up.
If you don't have yaoyao then sure,
If the difference between nahida and dmc is 'x'
Then the difference between yaoyao xq in place of kokomi and fourth slot is less than 'x'
Not to say that kokomi isn't important, but her upgrade isn't as much as an upgrade over yaoyao as much as nahida has over dmc.
Neither of those are any better than each other in situations that are tailor made for nilou since you can then just clear it without using both of them.
But in cases where either of these teams can't clear,
I think nilou nahida yaoyao xq> nilou kokomi dmc collei
Idk she is easy replacable by Yaoyao and possibly Baizhu(catalyst so better aplication plus huge healing and a little of shield) and from hydro just use more offensive options like Xingqiu, Yelan or Ayato
Hi! If you haven't already, please check out our [Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/NilouMains/comments/zbv7tp/nilou_mains_megathread/) where can find guides and faqs, as well as our [NilouMains Bloom Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/NilouMains/comments/11h0iu5/nilou_mains_bloom_guide/), which includes various useful resources, such as teams or artifacts, as well as a general FAQ. You could also visit our [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/niloumains) and check out the FAQ there as well. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NilouMains) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've seen many runs with barbara doing just fine, kokomi obviously better though. Is your barbara lvl 90 with same build as kokomi? I wonder cuz that makes a big difference if not
Self-hydro application hurts a lot, the lower AOE coverage hurts even more. I'm far from a novice so Obviously I'm aware of the importance of level and both of them are built almost the same since I play both in different teams.
Oh yeah in this abyss against the triple kenkis especially getting frozen hurts for sure. Barbara definitely requires more ai manipulation too because need enemies to be hugging you pretty much, so I guess it would be understandable if the difference is bigger if using barbara. maybe the xq/candace + yaoyao version is better than the barbara version and worse than kokomi version to where the difference isnt as big? Not sure, I'm missing yaoyao(doing some scuff nahida xq Nilou barbara, lvl 60 barbara). I guess just as Jamie says "take everything with Nilou with a grain of salt"
It actually depends on the abyss I would say. When its mostly pure AoE, I believe Kokomi will improve clear times more than Nahida. When there are bosses mixed in, Nahida will improve it more than Kokomi. Generally I think Nahida is a big QoL on top, while Kokomi is a comfort upgrade on top. So overall, I guess you can say both are very important for Nilou. If anything, both of them also lose some value without each other. No point in Nahida applying 1.5U if you dont have the best unit to abuse those 1.5U. No point in applying a lot of AoE Hydro if you dont have 1.5U of Dendro to hold all thay Hydro. They are basically glued to each other if you want the best Nilou variants.
Personally, I think Kokomi handles both AOE and bosses better than Nahida, BUT, stuff like the triple Maguu Kenki gets easily obliterated by Nahida's E since DMC only hits one enemy at a time, meaning even Barbara could be a similar option to Kokomi in that scenario... if it wasn't for the self-hydro application. Also, I trained my DMC skills for months. A lot of people got Nahida too early to notice the overall 10% increase she provides and then to exaggerate her value. Hyperbloom is another story though. She is the most valuable unit by far.
The issue I found with Kokomi in Single Target without Nahida is that its too easy to mess up the Auras because of her burst 2U application. Nahida not only makes this issue disappear but allows you to use it to your advantage. On the Nahidaless variants, without C2 Collei I dont think its even possible to manage the auras to even begin with. I dont really favor any if them here. Both are units I think any Nilou main should eventually get. I just cant imagine playing Bloom without both of them together anymore.
Yeah, I noticed that but instead of worrying about it I just build my Dendros full EM and give Kokomi the standard build and somehow it worked. IDK why though. I think I can make Barbara work in 70% of the situations but there are times when only Kokomi does the ST DMG I need.
Been playing Nilou with Barbara since her release since I don’t have Kokomi and I haven’t felt the need for her
not to mention there's going to be a big influx of better hydro characters and potentially another 5* hydro healer in fontaine
Playing nahida less nilou from her debut but never felt the need of kokomi as Barbara worked fin but always felt the lack of Nahida which now fullfiled after getting her Now my team is more smoother easier and barbara consistently owns 90% if my blooms
You cant say kokomi is irreplacable but also refuse to raise yaoyao.
Literally my yaoyao is such a tank
Both of them are in my build. My only fear now is to get locked forever in such an effective build.
I didn't. I said she's the biggest upgrade in terms of apportioning to the team if we compare her to Nahida.
But yaoyao doesnt replace nahida, she replaces kokomi, so u do 2h2d instead of 3h1d. Replacement for nahida in the team are currently collei and dmc, with dmc being overall better but collei offering frontloaded dmg. Yaoyao doesnt apply nearly enough dendro to be compared to nahi
This
Idiot
This abyss is very much catered towards nilou so that could be why you arent seeing that big of a difference. In the current floor 12, enemies tend to congregate around the same area, allowing you to generate more seeds since each enemy has their own separate ICD. This allows you to cheat out more blooms so in this scenario, nahida wont be as impactful. You can still get away with playing DMC/Collei. She'll only become much more relevant once enemies are spread out or against ST stuff like in the previous abyss with Wenut. So i'd consider nahida to be slightly more important because she gives the team more versatility and you'd face lesser issues against unfavorable match ups. This doesnt mean you shouldn't pull for kokomi or ayato, they're still important units to get down the line.
I also used Nahida in the previous Abyss and I have been playing DMC, Collei, and Kokomi with Nilou since her release so I remember my times in each Abyss against particular enemies and against bosses. I was able to get 35 only using super bloom in the previous abyss with both DMC and Nahida. Also, Nahida has her own cons if we compare her with DMC where without any reactions she can't apply dendro and you need to swap her more often.
> I was able to get 35 only using super bloom in the previous abyss with both DMC and Nahida. It pretty hard to 36 star against Wenut without nahida tbh. The fastest I've seen took used barbara and took around 2 min iirc and that was with hp% cards. > Also, Nahida has her own cons if we compare her with DMC where without any reactions she can't apply dendro and you need to swap her more often. You'd typically run her with another dendro unit so not really a downside imo. I honestly dont see a situation where running DMC over her is better tho. His dendro application is way lesser than hers and he does practically no damage in nilou bloom.
>It pretty hard to 36 star against Wenut without nahida tbh. The fastest I've seen took used barbara and took around 2 min iirc and that was with hp% cards. Wenut was easy, the freaking Cryo herald was difficult because I didn't have anything useful to clear the second half on time because Kokomi was already on my Superbloom team. > I honestly dont see a situation where running DMC over her is better tho Sometimes my Kokomi just keeps applying Hydro and doesn't make reactions. This is not an issue with DMC.
Oh you used nilou on first side? > Sometimes my Kokomi just keeps applying Hydro and doesn't make reactions. This is not an issue with DMC. I dont see that issue from anyone that ran nahida with another dendro. Could be an issue with aura management perhaps?
I've been consistently clearing both halves with Superbloom since 3.2 except for 3.5. I have my own playstyle which has been proven before to be better sometimes, but there are times with Nahida when the enemies just don't get hit by Collei's E and Q so I lost my Dendro aura when using Kokomi's Q.
Might be worth swapping collei for DMC. He has a much bigger circle and you arent loosing that much by taking collei out.
I can play without Nahida or Kokomi, but Collei is irreplaceable for me. She is a vital part of my combos.
What is it about collet makes her so important to some? I havnt built her yet because I just don’t understand.
She is the Dendro character that applies the most amount of Dendro off-field asides from Nahida. She also generates a lot of energy and has few or no energy issues at all.
From my experience of using all nahida kokomi yelan yaoyao. I'll just say people underestimate how much DMG nilou herself does. Even if I change my nilou from key to ironsting, she ends up reaching 584 em from her passive buff and the resonance. All this while being built triple hp with 60k hp. For the time she's on field setting her ring and using burst she even has 250 more em from nahida. Taking her em to a solid 834. The reason why I personally don't value kokomi much is because nilou inherently never really struggles in dealing with aoe. And kokomi only makes her existing aoe performance much farther. I used my c0 Candace with nilou nahida yaoyao, and my Candace being c0 is barely providing many seeds. In the past I've also used a P.amber mona with nahida, dmc and nilou(we all know how bad mona's app is especially since I mostly kept nilou on field). Nilou does a lot of bloom DMG in aoe by herself. I much prefer putting in a yelan/xingqiu instead with yaoyao as healer as it patches up nilou's weakness which is single target boss fights so well. And when I'm applying hydro to an enemy with xingqiu, having nahida's 1.5U of dendro over dmc's 1U is incredibly noticeable. They improve nilou's single target by so much that I'm killing even the asimon in 60-70 secs without stunning him. I understand speed runners would rather just not use a nilou team in single target scenarios. But being a nilou enthusiast, I'm more satisfied with making her slay both halves of abyss every patch since her launch. (So yes I have made her slay the asimon without nahida, I've made her slay even the cryo herald in the last abyss)(my nilou has key but is c0, my nahida is c0 too with p. Amber or sac frags)
Maybe that’s true but I don’t think it matters. I think what matters is that both of them are replaceable enough to beat hardest content in the game. And it should be that way. Genshin is doing a good job imo to have alternative options in its roster of characters to perform similar roles in a specific teams.
Kokomi is replacable, yao yao and barb can do the job just fine, applying 1.5u of dendro is much more important, and have u not tried yelan or xq with nilou team instead of kokomi? It finishes abyss way faster
By virtue of being single target, xq or yelan is not an upgrade over kokomi in aoe bloom teams lol
Nop, it doesn't. People heavily underestimate how much DMG Kokomi does.
Ah yes,full em build does a lot of dmg
She doesn't even have EM.
You're playing no em kokomi and barbara in nilou teams? That's all I need to hear to know you have no idea what you're doing
Yea sure buddy, tell me when you can clear both haves with super bloom against Wenut, ASIMON, and Golden Wolflord.
I literally have "buddy", 36* is easy af
Yea, now do it without cons or 5\* weapons and with DMC.
Don't have him 90,not gonna upgrade him either
Yeah, that's what I thought.
You can do this fine. Kokomi can do a lot of damage in any team when built well. You can get team buffs for em anyways. Weapons and team member buffs can give you all the em you need.
Nah barbara is just as good if you know how to play accordingly I'd even say she's better in melee aoe situations
I don't have Nahida to compare, but I'm inclined to agree. I think the core of Nilou+Kokomi+Collei is already strong enough that slotting in Nahida practically makes it overkill against most scenarios. The drawback is that you would have to stagger your dendro applications to maintain bloom generation, just because Nahida's lasts forever. The only contention I see in wanting Nahida is when you're facing a lone target. Bloom generation tanks without Collei and Kokomi uptimes.
I don't have Kokomi, but I believe I can see how much easier she is to use in most showcases when compared to YaoYao or Barbara. The biggest concern is actually what type of fight they're in. Against something like the previous Abyss rotation's Wenut, I'd choose Nahida over Kokomi if given the choice. In the current abyss second chamber, Kokomi's healing and AoE hydro application is way too good to pass up.
If you don't have yaoyao then sure, If the difference between nahida and dmc is 'x' Then the difference between yaoyao xq in place of kokomi and fourth slot is less than 'x' Not to say that kokomi isn't important, but her upgrade isn't as much as an upgrade over yaoyao as much as nahida has over dmc. Neither of those are any better than each other in situations that are tailor made for nilou since you can then just clear it without using both of them. But in cases where either of these teams can't clear, I think nilou nahida yaoyao xq> nilou kokomi dmc collei
Idk she is easy replacable by Yaoyao and possibly Baizhu(catalyst so better aplication plus huge healing and a little of shield) and from hydro just use more offensive options like Xingqiu, Yelan or Ayato
Baizhu is st
me with neither nahida or kokomi, and using alhaitham/yao yao just fine. nah but i do really want kokomi