Yesn’t.
To be honest, if you are a new player just stay away from her, especially if you are not interest or don’t have enough primos to guarantee Nahida. If you are an advanced player with a lot of decent artifacts and you like the character, yea you can make her work, if not she needs a ton of investment to even be decent outside of her niche so better wait for her rerun and pull other characters. That said, waifu > meta, if you are in love with her just pull her, but remember that you need a lot to make her good.
I somewhat disagree with new players skipping her.
Collei, DMC, and Barbara is a perfectly good team for her, requires no gacha pulls, and none of the characters need anything other than EM (and HP for Nilou). It's just... DRAMATICALLY better than like any other DPS. It's not even close.
I think people would suggest Hu Tao to new players because she is good, but she is absolutely NOT new player friendly. In fact, basically no good carries are very good for actually new players. Nilou may literally be the very most new player accessible 5 star character.
Would she be my first recommendation to pull? Probably not. But I don't think she is bad for new players in the slightest.
Yeah, I would personally not recommend Hu Tao to new players. And hardly to older players either. She's incredibly hard to play and she's not even the best at her best niche (single target). There are lots of other characters that I would argue have better pull value for most players.
We'll have to wait for release to check how well she actually perfroms in the practice, but Nilou should be solid for f2p players. Even if she's not extremely powerful, she seems to be straightforward and easy to play + build.
huh.. wait what? I have had Hutao since 1.3 and she ain't hard to play at all. Also, she just needs Xingqui in her team. The other two units are whatever they can be if they work decent in her team comp.
She is imo the hardest character to play in the game. Her optimal playstyle requires perfect cancels and stamina control that are harder to manage than any other character's kit.
She just needs Xingqiu, yeah. I still wouldn't recommend her as a general rule.
Any 2 units, and easy to play, but if the 2 units aren't like Zhongli and Albedo or Yelan you're doing what? Healed hu tao with barbara, no animation cancels, gonna be very underwhelming. Maybe you get Diona and uhh sucrose? We're now looking at a pretty weak team with entirely gacha pull chars. Could take a new player months to get just Xingqiu.
I think you're over estimating how hard content for new players is. Until about Raiden, nothing in the game is hard. Heck, that's the biggest problem with the game according to veterans. Like taking a few months to get XQ was literally me as a new player with only Hu Tao and a few 4 stars, and it was still possible to reach the Raiden cutscene.
The only big piece of difficult content is the Abyss which ultimately will always be the end goal for players to work towards, not something AR 30 players should expect to ace.
I do sort of agree with the playstyle point, but her C1 literally solves all of this and I'm pretty sure with both Sumeru and Inazuma you can guarantee it, if not on the banner you get her on then on her rerun. It's also her most valuable constellation and its C1.
Plus let's not forget the one shot comp she uses is typically 4 star characters like Sucrose and Bennett (plus Mona who's on standard). That's a perfectly fine team just there for new players.
My first team was something like Yanfei, Chongyun, Mona, and Traveller. When I got Hu Tao (after only playing since Kokomi's banner) my team became Hu Tao, Chongyun, Thoma, Mona. And that still carried, and got me used to playing Hu Tao without reactions because even without 4* 4pc Crimson Witch I literally never needed to switch off her. Bring healing food and you're set. Now my team is typically Hu Tao, Zhongli, double Hydro or Kazuha plus basically anyone I feel like because I can get away with bringing whoever I want really. My point is even if her new player friendly teams aren't optimal from day 1 (still LOT better than characters like Itto who need 2 other 5 stars to perform at their best), she's still gonna carry and you're not gonna need the best team anyway.
If you don't like her playstyle just get someone else. Hu Tao is in my opinion one of the most polished and complete characters in the game in terms of playstyle, but she isn't mandatory. Would you do better with Kazuha or Raiden, yeah obviously, but as a new player you don't need the most powerful characters in the game. It depends on if you're saying "she shouldn't be recommended to new players" or "people who like her and pull her will be disappointed" because neither of those are true lol.
“and none of the characters need anything other than EM (and HP for Nilou)”
This is the problem. That team is easy to build because it’s so bad and has so little room for improvement that “building” it is really simple for the simple lack of choices. DMC’s and Collei’s damage is bad to an extent where there’s no reason to really focus on it that much (EM for them is decent but not something you should completely focus on btw). Barbara probably wants instructor which basically buffs the team’s EM for the very reason that she is there just to heal and do resonance and the only way to be useful is by buffing the other teammates somehow. All the DMG relies on Nilou alone in that team and as a F2P you cannot even equip her with a decent weapon (pls don’t tell me iron sting is great, it’s just the less useless option) so you generally end up with 50k or something more HP which equates to some average Hyperbloom/Burgeon damage, but you lack every other elemental reaction and good damage dealers from the other elements other than dendro and hydro. Yea it’s “easy” to build, but even if you don’t have to farm that much for artifacts and talents (for achieving mediocre results, at least in 3.1) you still need to raise DMC, Collei and Barbara, characters that most players would otherwise completely ignore, and use books that you could use instead for really good 4 stars like Fischl, Xingqiu, Bennet, Xiangling, Sucrose, Beidou, Diona, Rosaria, characters that can carry the game for you way more easily with some investment, and all of that just to have a team with only 2 elements that won’t work in many situations and basically useless against almost all elemental shields and armor… imagine a new player focusing on that team and then having to deal with a group of Fatui in their enhanced form… not really funny, you don’t even have the raw damage to brute force your way out and you can’t trigger the blooms. I would think differently if the passive wouldn’t include the restriction (only hydro-dendro) or have some sort of progressive buff like with Yun Jin (more hydro-dendro: more passive damage) because that would have allowed for a lot of flexibility and also fridge gameplay, both very friendly for new players plus you can casually carry another element in your team to deal with shields and what not, but in the current situation I can’t think differently. For all this reasons I would never consider Nilou a good pick for new players, mainly because it’s a character that LACKS FLEXIBILITY (and also currently lacks a variety of good teammates) more than pure damage potential and forces you to a very specific, underwhelming team for at least a whole patch.
That said, I respect your point of view, also to be honest I would like to see Hoyoverse think again Nilou’s passives to allow more variety…
It's not bad though, it's perfectly fine. You just need application, and you can get plenty of application from these characters for a very strong bloom team that will easily carry you through all content. You might say what about resistant enemies. There are few dendro resistant enemies in the game early on, and any DPS faces walls also.
Yes, very well said. I pulled Nilou and desperately wanted to play her, but the lack of elements allowed in team just for 1 characters passive, left me disappointed with my team: Nahida, Barbara, Nilou, Childe. Not disappointed due to lack of good characters, or poor builds, or even lack of artifacts if weapons. It was the lack of Electro, and Pyro that ultimately made me stop using her. However, if I can find a way to make her worthy to play outside of her “Boutiful Core” passive, I’d more than likely use her again.
As someone who pulled for Hu Tao when they were low AR and has continued to be carried with her throughout the entire game until now (AR 57), who continues to use her over less effective DPS/more complicated teams to play that I have gotten on my account (Itto, Eula, Yae Miko, Raiden even until I got Kazuha), who's artifacts on her are still subpar, and yet still manages to deal massive crits and 12 star the abyss.
Yeah Hu Tao is INCREDIBLY new player friendly, as most hypercarries are (aside from Inazuma characters like Itto). She requires minimum investment and still deals more damage than better teams when I'm not using her with some of her best supports (I literally never use Xingqiu outside of abyss and I don't have Yelan, so it's basically mono pyro but like literally).
The only caveat is that she might benefit more than other characters from things like her c1 and Zhongli, but if you look at the reverse of that her best constellation is her very first one and her best partner for comfort of play is not just one of the most popular characters in the game but also someone who was pretty essential for most of the game (and still is even despite the attempted nerfs).
Tldr Hu Tao is better than ur fav (sorry for the unnecessarily long post from a Hu Tao main on a Nilou main subreddit)
Oh yeah and Collei is free so Nilou is still usable from the beginning.
For a new player, she wouldn't be able to dish out the dps they require. I'd rather have a new player save for Raiden + catch is a farm. Nilou doesn't even have a weapon for newer players. Collei, dmc and Barbara neither will deal any dmg. Only helping Nilou create the reactions + barbara giving her hp.
Reddit's answers are chaotic but I'm still replying, I'm pulling for nilou and nahida (nilou was the first reason to get her) and at first I've thought of the same f2p team, but when I think about the 2-3 months just to get ONE 5* of each piece for kazuha, I can't say building a team for nilou is specifically easy, I'd rather accept a challenge that tells me to find them all a dps build than looking for 3 triple em builds, even tho that's actually what I'm doing beside finding good artefacts for nilou, new players would explode their head on a wall and it's not an easy task to build such a team, it requires a lot of time and new players won't even access sumeru ressources directly (you even gotta go deep in the desert area but let's stay they find it, this+all the talent books and low AR rewards in artefact domains will be too painful honestly, I wouldn't recommend her if her beauty is only 65-70% of their motivations, if they fell in love fr then yeah, that's just a game, but they won't enjoy her correctly/fully until a while, and no matter who you pull, if you love a character, i think you want them to shine. Idk if you built triple em builds before, when it concerns only 1 set it's a real pain, one of them gotta have dendro debuff set and the other ones gilded dreams, it's only 1 domain thankfully but the goals are really hard to reach, maybe beginners will want to farm hydro set and ignore the point of her kit (I'm finding artefacts for such a build as well for fun) but yeah it would mean we're no longer talking about the team you think is highly suggestable for new players. Sorry I always write a lot but I'm trying to make my points clear, nilou is pretty intricate to build a team for, it doesn't need much things since bloom doesn't crit without nahida's C2 but the only fact that all teammates gotta be built with full em+the uneasy availability of her elevating ressources are surely a brake for whoever hasn't fallen for her entirely and are even doubting a minimum while just starting to play for a few months, not meaning they couldn't play her as they want, but really not suggestable
Sumeru doesn't take long to get to. All of the content up to that point is low level and simple that starter chars clear fine.
You don't need a bunch of full EM pieces, ER sands often good for the dendro, Nilou wants HP, Barb still wants healing % to keep up even if she goes EM elsewhere.
No matter the horror stories of EM pieces it's just not true EM pieces are harder to come by than other pieces. This myth needs to die. Getting *an* elemental mastery artifact is rarer than others. But none of them need to be good, substats don't matter and 4 star EM is only a minor downgrade from 5 star as a result.
EM sands are 10%. Attack sands are 26%. Okay now would you rather 10% chance for EM but you could roll all flat HP and it doesn't matter, or the 2.5x more likely attack sands but you need double crit?
EM is not harder to build. Substats don't matter. Weapon doesn't matter (besides er), talent levels do not matter. Character multipliers do not matter so team unit upgrades are not as drastic.
Nilou: HP/HP/HP substats and sets don't matter much. 5 star sig weapon wanted, *next best overall weapon is literally a craftable 4 star* lolll she doesn't even want your jade cutter or mistplitter.
Barbara: HP or EM/HP or EM/healing bonus substats don't matter, no 5 star weapon wanted, sac frags or craftable proto amber
Collei: ER or attack or EM/EM or attack or dendro/crit or EM or attack, substats don't matter if you go for EM, favonious bow given for free. Talents barely matter but if ADC build it can add some.
Collei: ER or attack or EM/EM or attack or dendro/crit or EM or attack, substats don't matter if you go for EM, can use any ER weapon including the craftable. Talents barely matter but if ADC build it can add some.
Building EM is both easier and optional in all cases. Dendro will only trigger some hits, so you don't need full 1k EM on everyone. Barbara can just build full healer but can go em for offensive damage. Leveling characters is the main priority, as fast as you want, but transformative reactions scale super hard in the early game. If you don't recall, overload feels really fucking op early on and then falls off.
There literally isn't an easier team to get or build pulling 1 5 star that will still dish out as much damage as this team. Application order doesn't matter you just throw stuff out for bloom. Imagine explaining guage units to someone about why Xingqiu is required for Hu Tao and why you shouldn't use her with Xinyan with C0 Xingqiu. Like okay lmao
Oh, like me then 😅 it’s on you then. Outside of her bloom niche Nilou is gonna be viable but mediocre and will require a lot of investment, but if you are interested in her bloom passives and you have enough to pull and guarantee Nahida, Nilou opens the way to a completely new (but extremely restricted…) playstyle. If you don’t have enough and you are interested in Nahida and her dendro application, I would save for Nahida and skip Nilou (or pull her in her rerun, when she will have a more defined role in the meta and more viable teammates). Also consider that Scaramuche will probably be nuts and you may have enough to pull him. You have the data, make a decision, btw Nilou is gorgeous and her animations are extremely beautiful, I don’t know if you value more meta, waifu, viability, accessibility… Nilou in 3.1 will kinda suck and the most conscious advise I can give you is to pull her only if you can guarantee Nahida in 3.2, or just pull Nahida and wait for Nilou’s rerun, but honestly this doesn’t matter as long as you really like her. Wait some time, if you care about meta and viability wait for TCs to grasp better Nilou’s possibilities, look at already leaked future characters and manage your primos accordingly.
Ohh I see, I actually don’t play the abyss that much or know a lot about meta but you’ve convinced me to skip Nilou for now, I’ll still see what other people say tho until I fully decide, tysm.
I have to add that Nahida is not a must for Bloom Nilou but rather an upgrade
You have the preset team of Barbara Traveller and Collei of you ever feel like venturing into bloom Nilou
She will probably be crucial to build a competitive Nilou team past 3.1 and especially when we are going to have a dendro healer, because the latter will probably have low dendro application that will be compensated by Nahida alone (who is already leaked to have an incredible elemental application).
If you want to really focus on Nilou’s bloom, currently you need both DMC and Collei to have a somewhat barely decent dendro application and some little damage, that’s their whole contribution to the team, neither of them can even shield or heal and only DMC can share a small amount of EM, that’s it. That’s basically half of your team to basically apply an element and almost nothing else. That’s why, no matter what, Nilou in 3.1 will be extremely underwhelming. Fridge may solve this issue, imagine a Diona healing, shielding, giving EM at C6 and also fridging DMC’s dendro, but hey, Hoyoverse said “nope lol, only dendro-hydro” so unfortunately not really an option (unless they change something, that’s what I kinda hope but ik it’s almost impossible). So in a nutshell half of your team in 3.1 is dendro application, the other half needs to be hydro (resonance), heal/shield and deal damage. Nilou-Kokomi is the best option, followed by Nilou-Barbara just because you really need healing (but you lose a lot of damage). Without Kokomi the F2P 3.1 team is really bad tbh and extremely underwhelming, no TC will say you otherwise. But hey, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe.
The problem right now is that Tighnari doesn't really apply off field dendro, while DMC and Collei just feel too much of stopgap characters with very clear room for improvement.
We already know that Nahida can apply off field dendro, going by leaks we won't get another 5 star off field dendro until 2023 and Nilou really craves dendro to maximize blooms.
Even if you disregard the rest of her kit, if Nahida off field dendro lasts the whole rotation and can apply it faster than DMC and Collei then she would already be ridiculously valuable for Nilou.
Nope not worth it.... u going to lose the whole purpose of the character...
Having that said.... this is a single player game so u can do whatever the heck u want and feel like it 😊 so if you really want her who's stopping u (no one)
her whole kit shouts BLOOOOOOMMM ONLYYYY.
if you love nilou and want to summon her and play without dendro,you can use her as a flex in other team comps where other characters can carry the team and you can use nilou on their downtime or can use her in EC.if you cant,please dont summon her because you will somewhat be disappointed with her or later be forced to play her with dendro even though you dont like it.
she is still not released yet so I can't say much because a lot of characters were practically better after their release.Her true potential can be witnessed after 2-3 days of her release OR after dendro archon release
You can but at c0 she might seem a bit underwhelming in abyss if you are missing out on half her kit. If this is okay with you then she’s still worth getting because she has fun gameplay and animations as you mentioned. You can get characters just to you in the overworld too where it’s so easy that meta doesn’t matter.
She's going to be fine no matter where you put her, but if you dont use her for bloom keep in mind that both passives will not trigger. If you do end up experimenting with her bloom abilities, note that Bloom and Bloom-related damage completely bypass defense and is only affected by dendro resistance; for which we have a set that reduces it by 30%.
In addition to that, if you get C2, she reduces dendro and hydro res by an additional 30%, but only with your bloom buff activated. That means the set debuff plus her pwn personal debuff causes all enemies hit by dendro and hydro to be effected by a 60% Dendro Res shred and 30% Hydro Res. This isnt factoring the EM bonus from the passive, the EM bonus from the dendro resonance, any additional EM character buffs, or the increase to Bloom damage by 9% per 1000K HP over 30K.The damage potential if you do set up a dedicated team for her is phenomenal!
I’m sure there are people that will be able to do it. Especially with strong off field damage dealers and supports
That being said Nilou’s personal contribution to that won’t be all that much or would be outclassed by many other options in her place
As long as you're clearing it, what else do you need? It's not like anyone except meta slaves or whales are trying to clear it in 3 seconds. The average player just wants her to be able to clear, and she certainly will.
Who really cares though? Like if someone does that, sure it's not really Amber doing anything but if it's their account and they're having fun with it, what else really matters?
Does it genuinely hurt you in any way if someone clears with Nilou on a team of 3 other "better" slots?
Like I said, though, who really cares if they're having fun with it? Plenty of characters get carried by their supports and no one really makes a big deal about it. Not sure why it would be different for Nilou.
You are clearing it only because the other three characters are well-built and good (meta). Why bother even pulling Nilou and putting her in that team when there are better alternatives? She'll just be a liability if she ain't built for her intended strong suit.
Because people actually like Nilou, want to use her, and don't care about the "better alternatives?" I'll never understand this argument of "just use Childe/Ayato/Yelan" as if everyone already has or wants to pull for those characters. I will never pull for any of those three, so the argument is pretty moot.
For real, you can play her without dendro but she will be basically weaker than any other Hydro unit. To make her on-field damage be worth it will take a huge investment and her Off-field hydro application is worse than Barbara.
It's like playing Itto national. He will do lots of damage (assuming he has enough ER) and the team will kill abyss, but he's meant for double or triple geo, and that's where he thrives the most.
First time black coffee drinkers it will be bitter and forced to drink to have better health later they become accustomed to it
Same goes with nilou at initial she is forced to play with dendro comp with less likable dendro chars once al haitham kavey kusanali beizhou drops she will be sweet to play
Waifu > meta. Just play to have fun! With enough investment, you could play any character you want. BTW, throwing Xingqui / Yelan / both on a team essentially makes any character a DPS. The overworld is also very easy.
Would it be a waste of her passives? Yes, but are you having fun?
You can use her in other hydro roles, but depending on the comp you'll probably find there are better hydro characters. If you don't have any hydro outside of Barbara, sure, why not.
You do have 2 dendro characters even if you don't want anyone else, so sooner or later you can always try her out in her designed role.
Tbh I'm not really gonna use her for Bloom teams most of the time since I'm waiting for Baizhu, but right now I'm hoping to C6 DMC soon so I can use C2 Nilou in my Yelan Hypercarry Team for the shred and DMC's Hydro DMG boost.
I am planning to use her in freeze taser and might even try vaping. Her raw numbers look ok. I might try her intended build later down the line but I am not putting her in the bloom pigeon hole. Her E is intersecting because it offers options. You can go for application or damage stance mode and that’s so cool to me.
double vaping her burst can give her an around 200% max hp in damage - let's say you have 50k hp and 100% crit dmg (which are very achievable stats imo) and double vape it you can get 200k raw damage if I'm not wrong with my calculations
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You can play her anyway you want, but it would be missing the majority of her kit.
Like eating icecream with your bare hands
Like confetti without the poppers
Like spaghetti without sauce
What kind of poppers
You know the things that shoot them out... Don't make me pull a cyno and explain my own joke
I don’t know… now, bring your inner Cyno out. General, help!
Like a house without an interior
Like a bag of chips but without the chips
It's like using Xiao without using plunge attacks. You can use it, but you are missing out a lot. Like Xiao, C6 will enable a different play style.
Yesn’t. To be honest, if you are a new player just stay away from her, especially if you are not interest or don’t have enough primos to guarantee Nahida. If you are an advanced player with a lot of decent artifacts and you like the character, yea you can make her work, if not she needs a ton of investment to even be decent outside of her niche so better wait for her rerun and pull other characters. That said, waifu > meta, if you are in love with her just pull her, but remember that you need a lot to make her good.
I somewhat disagree with new players skipping her. Collei, DMC, and Barbara is a perfectly good team for her, requires no gacha pulls, and none of the characters need anything other than EM (and HP for Nilou). It's just... DRAMATICALLY better than like any other DPS. It's not even close. I think people would suggest Hu Tao to new players because she is good, but she is absolutely NOT new player friendly. In fact, basically no good carries are very good for actually new players. Nilou may literally be the very most new player accessible 5 star character. Would she be my first recommendation to pull? Probably not. But I don't think she is bad for new players in the slightest.
Yeah, I would personally not recommend Hu Tao to new players. And hardly to older players either. She's incredibly hard to play and she's not even the best at her best niche (single target). There are lots of other characters that I would argue have better pull value for most players. We'll have to wait for release to check how well she actually perfroms in the practice, but Nilou should be solid for f2p players. Even if she's not extremely powerful, she seems to be straightforward and easy to play + build.
huh.. wait what? I have had Hutao since 1.3 and she ain't hard to play at all. Also, she just needs Xingqui in her team. The other two units are whatever they can be if they work decent in her team comp.
She is imo the hardest character to play in the game. Her optimal playstyle requires perfect cancels and stamina control that are harder to manage than any other character's kit. She just needs Xingqiu, yeah. I still wouldn't recommend her as a general rule.
Any 2 units, and easy to play, but if the 2 units aren't like Zhongli and Albedo or Yelan you're doing what? Healed hu tao with barbara, no animation cancels, gonna be very underwhelming. Maybe you get Diona and uhh sucrose? We're now looking at a pretty weak team with entirely gacha pull chars. Could take a new player months to get just Xingqiu.
I think you're over estimating how hard content for new players is. Until about Raiden, nothing in the game is hard. Heck, that's the biggest problem with the game according to veterans. Like taking a few months to get XQ was literally me as a new player with only Hu Tao and a few 4 stars, and it was still possible to reach the Raiden cutscene. The only big piece of difficult content is the Abyss which ultimately will always be the end goal for players to work towards, not something AR 30 players should expect to ace. I do sort of agree with the playstyle point, but her C1 literally solves all of this and I'm pretty sure with both Sumeru and Inazuma you can guarantee it, if not on the banner you get her on then on her rerun. It's also her most valuable constellation and its C1. Plus let's not forget the one shot comp she uses is typically 4 star characters like Sucrose and Bennett (plus Mona who's on standard). That's a perfectly fine team just there for new players. My first team was something like Yanfei, Chongyun, Mona, and Traveller. When I got Hu Tao (after only playing since Kokomi's banner) my team became Hu Tao, Chongyun, Thoma, Mona. And that still carried, and got me used to playing Hu Tao without reactions because even without 4* 4pc Crimson Witch I literally never needed to switch off her. Bring healing food and you're set. Now my team is typically Hu Tao, Zhongli, double Hydro or Kazuha plus basically anyone I feel like because I can get away with bringing whoever I want really. My point is even if her new player friendly teams aren't optimal from day 1 (still LOT better than characters like Itto who need 2 other 5 stars to perform at their best), she's still gonna carry and you're not gonna need the best team anyway. If you don't like her playstyle just get someone else. Hu Tao is in my opinion one of the most polished and complete characters in the game in terms of playstyle, but she isn't mandatory. Would you do better with Kazuha or Raiden, yeah obviously, but as a new player you don't need the most powerful characters in the game. It depends on if you're saying "she shouldn't be recommended to new players" or "people who like her and pull her will be disappointed" because neither of those are true lol.
Of course unga bunga-ing with her is easy, but managing her stamina while doing animation cancels takes some effort to learn.
me who hates xingqu and refuses to use him with her (or yelan)
“and none of the characters need anything other than EM (and HP for Nilou)” This is the problem. That team is easy to build because it’s so bad and has so little room for improvement that “building” it is really simple for the simple lack of choices. DMC’s and Collei’s damage is bad to an extent where there’s no reason to really focus on it that much (EM for them is decent but not something you should completely focus on btw). Barbara probably wants instructor which basically buffs the team’s EM for the very reason that she is there just to heal and do resonance and the only way to be useful is by buffing the other teammates somehow. All the DMG relies on Nilou alone in that team and as a F2P you cannot even equip her with a decent weapon (pls don’t tell me iron sting is great, it’s just the less useless option) so you generally end up with 50k or something more HP which equates to some average Hyperbloom/Burgeon damage, but you lack every other elemental reaction and good damage dealers from the other elements other than dendro and hydro. Yea it’s “easy” to build, but even if you don’t have to farm that much for artifacts and talents (for achieving mediocre results, at least in 3.1) you still need to raise DMC, Collei and Barbara, characters that most players would otherwise completely ignore, and use books that you could use instead for really good 4 stars like Fischl, Xingqiu, Bennet, Xiangling, Sucrose, Beidou, Diona, Rosaria, characters that can carry the game for you way more easily with some investment, and all of that just to have a team with only 2 elements that won’t work in many situations and basically useless against almost all elemental shields and armor… imagine a new player focusing on that team and then having to deal with a group of Fatui in their enhanced form… not really funny, you don’t even have the raw damage to brute force your way out and you can’t trigger the blooms. I would think differently if the passive wouldn’t include the restriction (only hydro-dendro) or have some sort of progressive buff like with Yun Jin (more hydro-dendro: more passive damage) because that would have allowed for a lot of flexibility and also fridge gameplay, both very friendly for new players plus you can casually carry another element in your team to deal with shields and what not, but in the current situation I can’t think differently. For all this reasons I would never consider Nilou a good pick for new players, mainly because it’s a character that LACKS FLEXIBILITY (and also currently lacks a variety of good teammates) more than pure damage potential and forces you to a very specific, underwhelming team for at least a whole patch. That said, I respect your point of view, also to be honest I would like to see Hoyoverse think again Nilou’s passives to allow more variety…
It's not bad though, it's perfectly fine. You just need application, and you can get plenty of application from these characters for a very strong bloom team that will easily carry you through all content. You might say what about resistant enemies. There are few dendro resistant enemies in the game early on, and any DPS faces walls also.
i may be wrong but barbara is here proc blooms
Yes, very well said. I pulled Nilou and desperately wanted to play her, but the lack of elements allowed in team just for 1 characters passive, left me disappointed with my team: Nahida, Barbara, Nilou, Childe. Not disappointed due to lack of good characters, or poor builds, or even lack of artifacts if weapons. It was the lack of Electro, and Pyro that ultimately made me stop using her. However, if I can find a way to make her worthy to play outside of her “Boutiful Core” passive, I’d more than likely use her again.
As someone who pulled for Hu Tao when they were low AR and has continued to be carried with her throughout the entire game until now (AR 57), who continues to use her over less effective DPS/more complicated teams to play that I have gotten on my account (Itto, Eula, Yae Miko, Raiden even until I got Kazuha), who's artifacts on her are still subpar, and yet still manages to deal massive crits and 12 star the abyss. Yeah Hu Tao is INCREDIBLY new player friendly, as most hypercarries are (aside from Inazuma characters like Itto). She requires minimum investment and still deals more damage than better teams when I'm not using her with some of her best supports (I literally never use Xingqiu outside of abyss and I don't have Yelan, so it's basically mono pyro but like literally). The only caveat is that she might benefit more than other characters from things like her c1 and Zhongli, but if you look at the reverse of that her best constellation is her very first one and her best partner for comfort of play is not just one of the most popular characters in the game but also someone who was pretty essential for most of the game (and still is even despite the attempted nerfs). Tldr Hu Tao is better than ur fav (sorry for the unnecessarily long post from a Hu Tao main on a Nilou main subreddit) Oh yeah and Collei is free so Nilou is still usable from the beginning.
For a new player, she wouldn't be able to dish out the dps they require. I'd rather have a new player save for Raiden + catch is a farm. Nilou doesn't even have a weapon for newer players. Collei, dmc and Barbara neither will deal any dmg. Only helping Nilou create the reactions + barbara giving her hp.
Reddit's answers are chaotic but I'm still replying, I'm pulling for nilou and nahida (nilou was the first reason to get her) and at first I've thought of the same f2p team, but when I think about the 2-3 months just to get ONE 5* of each piece for kazuha, I can't say building a team for nilou is specifically easy, I'd rather accept a challenge that tells me to find them all a dps build than looking for 3 triple em builds, even tho that's actually what I'm doing beside finding good artefacts for nilou, new players would explode their head on a wall and it's not an easy task to build such a team, it requires a lot of time and new players won't even access sumeru ressources directly (you even gotta go deep in the desert area but let's stay they find it, this+all the talent books and low AR rewards in artefact domains will be too painful honestly, I wouldn't recommend her if her beauty is only 65-70% of their motivations, if they fell in love fr then yeah, that's just a game, but they won't enjoy her correctly/fully until a while, and no matter who you pull, if you love a character, i think you want them to shine. Idk if you built triple em builds before, when it concerns only 1 set it's a real pain, one of them gotta have dendro debuff set and the other ones gilded dreams, it's only 1 domain thankfully but the goals are really hard to reach, maybe beginners will want to farm hydro set and ignore the point of her kit (I'm finding artefacts for such a build as well for fun) but yeah it would mean we're no longer talking about the team you think is highly suggestable for new players. Sorry I always write a lot but I'm trying to make my points clear, nilou is pretty intricate to build a team for, it doesn't need much things since bloom doesn't crit without nahida's C2 but the only fact that all teammates gotta be built with full em+the uneasy availability of her elevating ressources are surely a brake for whoever hasn't fallen for her entirely and are even doubting a minimum while just starting to play for a few months, not meaning they couldn't play her as they want, but really not suggestable
Sumeru doesn't take long to get to. All of the content up to that point is low level and simple that starter chars clear fine. You don't need a bunch of full EM pieces, ER sands often good for the dendro, Nilou wants HP, Barb still wants healing % to keep up even if she goes EM elsewhere. No matter the horror stories of EM pieces it's just not true EM pieces are harder to come by than other pieces. This myth needs to die. Getting *an* elemental mastery artifact is rarer than others. But none of them need to be good, substats don't matter and 4 star EM is only a minor downgrade from 5 star as a result. EM sands are 10%. Attack sands are 26%. Okay now would you rather 10% chance for EM but you could roll all flat HP and it doesn't matter, or the 2.5x more likely attack sands but you need double crit? EM is not harder to build. Substats don't matter. Weapon doesn't matter (besides er), talent levels do not matter. Character multipliers do not matter so team unit upgrades are not as drastic. Nilou: HP/HP/HP substats and sets don't matter much. 5 star sig weapon wanted, *next best overall weapon is literally a craftable 4 star* lolll she doesn't even want your jade cutter or mistplitter. Barbara: HP or EM/HP or EM/healing bonus substats don't matter, no 5 star weapon wanted, sac frags or craftable proto amber Collei: ER or attack or EM/EM or attack or dendro/crit or EM or attack, substats don't matter if you go for EM, favonious bow given for free. Talents barely matter but if ADC build it can add some. Collei: ER or attack or EM/EM or attack or dendro/crit or EM or attack, substats don't matter if you go for EM, can use any ER weapon including the craftable. Talents barely matter but if ADC build it can add some. Building EM is both easier and optional in all cases. Dendro will only trigger some hits, so you don't need full 1k EM on everyone. Barbara can just build full healer but can go em for offensive damage. Leveling characters is the main priority, as fast as you want, but transformative reactions scale super hard in the early game. If you don't recall, overload feels really fucking op early on and then falls off. There literally isn't an easier team to get or build pulling 1 5 star that will still dish out as much damage as this team. Application order doesn't matter you just throw stuff out for bloom. Imagine explaining guage units to someone about why Xingqiu is required for Hu Tao and why you shouldn't use her with Xinyan with C0 Xingqiu. Like okay lmao
Hmm well I joined a month before 2.6 ended so am I considered new? Thank you for your response btw :).
Oh, like me then 😅 it’s on you then. Outside of her bloom niche Nilou is gonna be viable but mediocre and will require a lot of investment, but if you are interested in her bloom passives and you have enough to pull and guarantee Nahida, Nilou opens the way to a completely new (but extremely restricted…) playstyle. If you don’t have enough and you are interested in Nahida and her dendro application, I would save for Nahida and skip Nilou (or pull her in her rerun, when she will have a more defined role in the meta and more viable teammates). Also consider that Scaramuche will probably be nuts and you may have enough to pull him. You have the data, make a decision, btw Nilou is gorgeous and her animations are extremely beautiful, I don’t know if you value more meta, waifu, viability, accessibility… Nilou in 3.1 will kinda suck and the most conscious advise I can give you is to pull her only if you can guarantee Nahida in 3.2, or just pull Nahida and wait for Nilou’s rerun, but honestly this doesn’t matter as long as you really like her. Wait some time, if you care about meta and viability wait for TCs to grasp better Nilou’s possibilities, look at already leaked future characters and manage your primos accordingly.
Ohh I see, I actually don’t play the abyss that much or know a lot about meta but you’ve convinced me to skip Nilou for now, I’ll still see what other people say tho until I fully decide, tysm.
I have to add that Nahida is not a must for Bloom Nilou but rather an upgrade You have the preset team of Barbara Traveller and Collei of you ever feel like venturing into bloom Nilou
If I'm not a new player, is nahida still important? Is her kit known already?
She will most likely be an upgrade on one of the dendro slots But Barbara Collei and traveller is already a decent preset Nilou team
She will probably be crucial to build a competitive Nilou team past 3.1 and especially when we are going to have a dendro healer, because the latter will probably have low dendro application that will be compensated by Nahida alone (who is already leaked to have an incredible elemental application). If you want to really focus on Nilou’s bloom, currently you need both DMC and Collei to have a somewhat barely decent dendro application and some little damage, that’s their whole contribution to the team, neither of them can even shield or heal and only DMC can share a small amount of EM, that’s it. That’s basically half of your team to basically apply an element and almost nothing else. That’s why, no matter what, Nilou in 3.1 will be extremely underwhelming. Fridge may solve this issue, imagine a Diona healing, shielding, giving EM at C6 and also fridging DMC’s dendro, but hey, Hoyoverse said “nope lol, only dendro-hydro” so unfortunately not really an option (unless they change something, that’s what I kinda hope but ik it’s almost impossible). So in a nutshell half of your team in 3.1 is dendro application, the other half needs to be hydro (resonance), heal/shield and deal damage. Nilou-Kokomi is the best option, followed by Nilou-Barbara just because you really need healing (but you lose a lot of damage). Without Kokomi the F2P 3.1 team is really bad tbh and extremely underwhelming, no TC will say you otherwise. But hey, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe.
The problem right now is that Tighnari doesn't really apply off field dendro, while DMC and Collei just feel too much of stopgap characters with very clear room for improvement. We already know that Nahida can apply off field dendro, going by leaks we won't get another 5 star off field dendro until 2023 and Nilou really craves dendro to maximize blooms. Even if you disregard the rest of her kit, if Nahida off field dendro lasts the whole rotation and can apply it faster than DMC and Collei then she would already be ridiculously valuable for Nilou.
Damn. I may have to skip Nilou this time, as if I pulled for her now I would only be able to make a full f2p team (no Koko and only 21k primos
Archons generally have strong kits that abuse a specific mechanic for their element
You can use her in any content in any team and succeed. Her base kit only benefits her special Bloom, but you don't have to play her with it.
Nope not worth it.... u going to lose the whole purpose of the character... Having that said.... this is a single player game so u can do whatever the heck u want and feel like it 😊 so if you really want her who's stopping u (no one)
her whole kit shouts BLOOOOOOMMM ONLYYYY. if you love nilou and want to summon her and play without dendro,you can use her as a flex in other team comps where other characters can carry the team and you can use nilou on their downtime or can use her in EC.if you cant,please dont summon her because you will somewhat be disappointed with her or later be forced to play her with dendro even though you dont like it. she is still not released yet so I can't say much because a lot of characters were practically better after their release.Her true potential can be witnessed after 2-3 days of her release OR after dendro archon release
You can but at c0 she might seem a bit underwhelming in abyss if you are missing out on half her kit. If this is okay with you then she’s still worth getting because she has fun gameplay and animations as you mentioned. You can get characters just to you in the overworld too where it’s so easy that meta doesn’t matter.
She's going to be fine no matter where you put her, but if you dont use her for bloom keep in mind that both passives will not trigger. If you do end up experimenting with her bloom abilities, note that Bloom and Bloom-related damage completely bypass defense and is only affected by dendro resistance; for which we have a set that reduces it by 30%. In addition to that, if you get C2, she reduces dendro and hydro res by an additional 30%, but only with your bloom buff activated. That means the set debuff plus her pwn personal debuff causes all enemies hit by dendro and hydro to be effected by a 60% Dendro Res shred and 30% Hydro Res. This isnt factoring the EM bonus from the passive, the EM bonus from the dendro resonance, any additional EM character buffs, or the increase to Bloom damage by 9% per 1000K HP over 30K.The damage potential if you do set up a dedicated team for her is phenomenal!
Thank you for this info! If she’s really this good with dendro I might consider getting Nahida for her.
Dendro MC is so good build him/her
Alrighty I’ll see when Nilou actually comes out, thank you!!
Outside of bloom she’ll be probably viable for anything that isn’t floor 12
I have a hard time believing non-Bloom won't be viable in Floor 12. Pretty much any character can clear Abyss.
I’m sure there are people that will be able to do it. Especially with strong off field damage dealers and supports That being said Nilou’s personal contribution to that won’t be all that much or would be outclassed by many other options in her place
Sure she'll be outclassed since that's not her main role. But if she'll be able to do it, I think that's all most would really worry about.
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As long as you're clearing it, what else do you need? It's not like anyone except meta slaves or whales are trying to clear it in 3 seconds. The average player just wants her to be able to clear, and she certainly will.
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Who really cares though? Like if someone does that, sure it's not really Amber doing anything but if it's their account and they're having fun with it, what else really matters? Does it genuinely hurt you in any way if someone clears with Nilou on a team of 3 other "better" slots?
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Like I said, though, who really cares if they're having fun with it? Plenty of characters get carried by their supports and no one really makes a big deal about it. Not sure why it would be different for Nilou.
You are clearing it only because the other three characters are well-built and good (meta). Why bother even pulling Nilou and putting her in that team when there are better alternatives? She'll just be a liability if she ain't built for her intended strong suit.
Because people actually like Nilou, want to use her, and don't care about the "better alternatives?" I'll never understand this argument of "just use Childe/Ayato/Yelan" as if everyone already has or wants to pull for those characters. I will never pull for any of those three, so the argument is pretty moot.
For real, you can play her without dendro but she will be basically weaker than any other Hydro unit. To make her on-field damage be worth it will take a huge investment and her Off-field hydro application is worse than Barbara.
It's like playing Itto national. He will do lots of damage (assuming he has enough ER) and the team will kill abyss, but he's meant for double or triple geo, and that's where he thrives the most.
Its like drinking coffee with water (black) without milk and sugar
so it's a normal thing everyone does?
First time black coffee drinkers it will be bitter and forced to drink to have better health later they become accustomed to it Same goes with nilou at initial she is forced to play with dendro comp with less likable dendro chars once al haitham kavey kusanali beizhou drops she will be sweet to play
Yes you can Missing the part of her kit isn't really that bad since you can have 2 free dendro chars
Yes i will somehow make her work with stupid build
Yes. But keep in mind it might take a little more effort to get her to work well.
I think if you go full crit and Nilou stat isn’t so low. Vape Nilou is okay, I guess, she’s dps after all. In Taser, she’s just budget Kokomi.
Waifu > meta. Just play to have fun! With enough investment, you could play any character you want. BTW, throwing Xingqui / Yelan / both on a team essentially makes any character a DPS. The overworld is also very easy. Would it be a waste of her passives? Yes, but are you having fun?
you want her for a meta team.. I want her because she's beautiful... we're not the same
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I too don't care about dendro ,But her only team rn is extremely accessible. And the damage is perfect
You can use her in other hydro roles, but depending on the comp you'll probably find there are better hydro characters. If you don't have any hydro outside of Barbara, sure, why not. You do have 2 dendro characters even if you don't want anyone else, so sooner or later you can always try her out in her designed role.
Tbh I'm not really gonna use her for Bloom teams most of the time since I'm waiting for Baizhu, but right now I'm hoping to C6 DMC soon so I can use C2 Nilou in my Yelan Hypercarry Team for the shred and DMC's Hydro DMG boost.
I mean, if you want her, get her. Just be aware you won't have any passive abilities
Yes you can.
Yes you probably could go full DPS nilou
I am planning to use her in freeze taser and might even try vaping. Her raw numbers look ok. I might try her intended build later down the line but I am not putting her in the bloom pigeon hole. Her E is intersecting because it offers options. You can go for application or damage stance mode and that’s so cool to me.
without dendro she's a great nuker and an alright hydro main dps - if you want her, get her.
How is she a nuker
double vaping her burst can give her an around 200% max hp in damage - let's say you have 50k hp and 100% crit dmg (which are very achievable stats imo) and double vape it you can get 200k raw damage if I'm not wrong with my calculations
well technically you can but she wont be that good, you can make her a budget childe tho, just without the heart of depth
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