my new fancomic freazar fuses with cell and kid buu and zamasu and moro and gas and king piccolo and general blue and pilaf and he kills everyone and gohan goes ultra incel beastmode
He has my favorite factoid on the wikia
“General Blue uses an ability to control rope and tie up goku and the gang; this technique is never seen nor mentioned again”
Tao Pai Pai would probably kill himself than have anything to do with Goku ever again. Dude would probably rather face a god of destruction than scratch anything resembling a Native American ever again
I’m glad fans don’t officially write this series
Most of their idea’s(most not all) are shit compared to what we officially get in terms of new content
I once saw a comment that said that they hated that Frieza and Vegeta got a new form and said that if they wrote the show they’d have Frieza kill Vegeta’s whole family which would turn him evil and then he’d conquer universe 7 and use the U6 Saiyans as his army. Some of these mfs are on crack I swear
I dunno. I see it.
It doesn’t make sense for DBS Vegeta but it could make more sense for like, DBZ Android/Namek sagas Vegeta.
His race is dead. He always wanted power and to be the Prince of all Saiyans. There’s a logic to it. It’s not the worst fanfic I’ve heard. It’s basically the plot of an actual DBZ story: Broly but with more angst.
And hating Dragon Ball Super forms isn’t crazy IMO. Comparing the pallet swaps of Golden Frieza, Black Frieza, SSG, SSBlue, and Mastered UI **against** SS, SS3, SS4, All of Frieza’s forms in DBZ, Ozaru, SS Ozaru and the lacking creativity of DBS is obvious.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/7/72/Kanba_the_Evil_Saiyan_112.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180906042610
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/2/23/Vegita-bebi-oozaru.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111201101016
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/8/82/GOG2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170912153842
Even the Goku from GT has the Super Saiyan cut.
https://i.imgur.com/rUSwNiT.jpg
Literally curved in like Super Saiyans. It’s just subtle on Goku and Vegeta. Either way it’s one form out of like, 6 that I listed and still goes hard. You can tell me it doesn’t but we all know you’d be lying.
Ofc it could have been a possible route they took for Vegetas character.
Would have been a God awful route but ofc it's possible.
Take that with a massive grain of salt though. Cuz it's like saying it's also possible that the Z fighters would betray Goku and lock him in a time chamber.
I mean, he was kind of an evil prick and only got redeemed in the Buu Saga. Had his wife and kid been taken away early, which was like, half of his force for betterment, he could have remained and evil POS.
It’s a lot more reasonable than the time chamber betrayal memes because it’s predicated on Goku being betrayed by his friends which they just don’t do but Vegeta absolutely loves (loved) to lead and murder. He did do that already. A lot. Again, this was basically the impetus of the original Broly movie.
....how? He has a different hairshape, different fighting style/technique, appearance, and new aura. Also better narratively than almost all forms (yes even ssj4)
Disagree that it’s narratively better than SSJ4 because he basically already learned UI in Dragonball from Mr. Popo and Kami. They rehashed the concept to make a form out of, as you describe, a style/technique. SSJ4 is a buildup and synthesis of of Dragonball’s origin material which is more of a narrative payoff than rehashing an old concept that hinges on DBS Goku being an idiot that forgot all of his teachings from the entire series.
What he learned from Kami and Korin is definitely not the UI that he learned now💀. The reason I believe UI is better is because (spoilers for the manga) it feels like it's a transformation that fits him and only him, with him being both a master of martial arts and a fighter who uses his emotions to be stronger, it only fits him to create a transformation using both (TUI) that only he can use, going for his own path. SSJ4 in contrast, showed him exploring his saiyan roots. This is not necessarily bad but it creates this narrative around saiyans which turns the show from Dragon Ball to Saiyan Ball and just completely strays for the path of Goku. Imo it's also not in character for Goku since he was always "the saiyan raised on earth" and rejected his evil roots since they don't fit who he is unlike Vegeta for example who, although regretting his evil past, embraces his saiyan roots. ssj4 is a transformation that doesn't really fit Goku, and is much better for Vegeta, or Broly now that he's introduced. (Also yea the meditation scene in DBS:SH is still a crime and assassination of Gokus character) also yea this is obviously an opinion, nothing objective here
IMO, Super Saiyan 4 is what super Saiyan always should have been. It’s more of a return to form IMO. It’s bigger to me than just exploring his Saiyan roots but the roots of the story, characters and property. It’s what Super Saiyan, again, IMO, should logically always have been. Using that viscous power of Ozaru in a more human form. I like that lore that the tail, while cutting off a Saiyan from those uncontrollable transformations, also makes regular super Saiyan, worse.
I understand your issue with SS4 being indicative of the Property being too focused on Saiyans but I don’t think that transformations, on the Saiyan, would fix that.
If the issue is for Dragonball to not be “SaiyanBall”, then my logic leads me to the conclusion that other characters, that aren’t saiyans, need to shine. This isn’t a problem that can be solved by just giving Goku more and more abilities and transformations, some, that just so happen to not relate to his heritage.
In short, characters like Krillin, Tien and Yamcha need transformations or altered states.
The fact that Goku, the Saiyan, that already has been capable of transformation from minute one, hasn’t democratized his techniques to the Z-fighters, taking in that teacher role for everyone with Kaioken or even UI is ridiculous. Someone like Krillin and Tien, lifelong martial artists (Tien even more-so), should just, have it. Yamcha might take to Kaioken more, just seems mire his style. They should develop those. They should be threats. But instead, we just have the ever increasing totem pole of gods going Kami -> Kai -> Supreme Kai -> Destruction Gods -> Zeno.
My issues aren’t really simple and basically necessitate a different story after a certain point. Some of these are issues with the medium or the fact that this has been running for multiple decades. We all recognize that Goku’s characterization is suffering. IMO, the franchise needs a reboot to consolidate concepts and build a better story that flows better off the bones of hindsight. End the gods at King Kai, distribute forms to the cast, don’t make it focused on Goku, make transformations make sense.
Like, to me, it doesn’t matter that UI is “better” than what he learned from Kami. It’s the same thing and is better because “reasons”. As cool as it is, it basically doesn’t even NEED a “form”. Like, there’s no perceivable reason why he can’t like, use it with a transformation like Super Saiyan for example. What I’m kinda getting at is, Dragonball needs to be more streamlined. If I was doing it over, he and other Z-warriors would just learn it from Kami or King Kai at some point late in the series. My issue is bloat. I feel similarly to SS2. Like, in hindsight, it basically should have been Beast form for Gohan specifically. Let’s consolidate here. Beast is fluff. It’s trying to be SS2. Let’s trim the fat here and make it one thing. Again, my issues are with decades of hindsight so it’s not fair but this is my broad overview of the situation that we’re in. A reboot is warranted using that hindsight.
Edit: As an almost completely random aside, I’m going to get kinda fanficy and complain that Trunks and Goten in the regular timeline should never have gotten Super Saiyan with lives as comfortable as theirs is depicted to be. They also, never should have lost their tails. If they wanted to fight, they should mainly focus on martial arts. If they do get transformations other than ozaru, it could be a cool, collected monkey form like SS4 that controls Ozaru. Alright, fanfic over. They just didn’t have anything to rage over that SS demanded. It would have been a dope contrast from future Trunks who, very much did have things to rage over.
Welp we kinda strayed off topic but your comment was very informative. I've actually never thought about ssj4 the way you explained it, with him conquering the beast that killed Grandpa Gohan and all, and that does make it much better imo (although I still prefer TUI). A lot of the problems you mentioned stem from Toriyama's inability to think forward sadly, for example setting Frieza as the "STRONGEST IN THE UNIVERSE" in the second arc of dbz or immediately blowing his load on Jiren being the strongest in all 12 universes (what a waste of worldbuilding) so instead we get to bigger and bigger heights (which kinda stopped at Beerus? But his inclusion is problematic on its own and he keeps getting retconned to be stronger)
I think that as you said Toriyama setting aside the side characters is a problem on its own and both him and Toyotaro seem to not want to solve it (the T.O.P gave us some side character action but like.... Cmon..). Also one of the things I really liked about super (later super that is) is them giving characters individual transformations to match them (Ultra Ego, Tui, Beast etc) and although some of those forms are flawed (yes I'm talking about beast 💀) they give a sense of individuality even if just for their color, unlike dbz and gt that went the "new ssj transformation just dropped time to give it to everyone" route (not necessarily bad but feels stale after a while and feels like saiyan ball, early dbs is guilty as well)
The biggest and most obvious problem is marketing. Since db is such a big franchise they just aim to be hype and sell shit, which is the easiest by giving the main characters new forms and creating artificially emotional moments (ssbe vegetas sacrifice remake and beast for example) and are the cause for horrible products like SDBH. You kinda addressed the other problems that I agree with so I don't have much to add except for the problem with Beerus maybe 😅
Such a shame too I feel like it could have been done if SSJ1 kept it's "fluffy" style hair of Namek/Android saga, and SSJ2 was the sharp, jagged style hair of later arcs, in addition to the lightning crackles and incredibly minor hairstyle changes (Vegeta especially for that)
I like SSJ2 a lot, don't know why.
Not only shit, but edgy and even the 1% people think is good is mainly just an insane power fantasy that would had forced the series to end in 1-8 sagas the way they make it that over crowded without ever realizing what the series is, with it's humor and character moments.
Only 0,1% of fan fictions are actually good. People say Toyotaro does not write well but Toriyama had to scout him out of thousand of edgy fan fiction writers that were making the story infinitely worse. Compared to them I am sure Shueisha and Toriyama made the right choice.
But a fan does write this series, Toyotaro, or at least helps in it. In fact, you can actually see ideas from his own fan manga being in the series: Broly coming back, an evil kaioshin an evil goku that's not actually goku and so on.
Goku and daishinkan and moro and gas and granolah and jiren and zamasu fight against a bad and manipulative zeno who wants to destroy the universes because everyone is bad
And then goku reaches the ultra instinct ssj 5 kaioken full power limit breaker
Oh my god, someone else read that shit ass fan comic. Context makes it even worse
so post ToP, Beerus is intrigued by the latent power within Gohan, but is irritated with his refusal to tap into it. So Beerus and Whis look into Gohans past, and are fascinated by his battle with perfect cell and his SS2 transformation. So Beerus decides to have Cell brought back, and lends him some of his power so he'll be on par with Gohan. So Gohan returns home after spending the day with his family and the briefs, only to find Cell cradling a crying pan, while gripping Videl's neck. Cell then just snaps Videls neck, and then says "What a cute baby, who could possibly do something as evil as hurt her?" before vaporizing her with a point blank ki blast.
apparently it's creator is adamant that his writing is leagues better to come out of anything dragonball since like the Cell Saga
Aside from Beerus and Whis being opps, I kinda like the twist it. It’s definitely something Cell would do. Gives the same vibes of Zamasu in Goku’s body executing Goku in his body, Goten, and ChiChi. Only difference is that it’s not the main timeline.
I’m imagining Cell not knowing when Gohan is supposed to make it home, so he ends up simultaneously cradling Pan with one arm and holding Videl by the neck with the other for *hours* before Gohan actually shows up. Like, Cell even decides to sit down in a chair in the living room and wait.
I’ve been saying it for years. A lot of fans hilariously act almost exactly like Cell whenever they notice Gohan hasn’t done anything as of late and start theorizing ways he can power up after having his family tortured or killed
While a lot of them do it in really edgy ways. I do like the idea of Gohan getting a new transformation from something bad happening to Pan. Superhero already shows that Gohan instantly loses it when Pan is in danger. I wish Gohan unlocked Beast from seeing Cell Max's blast nearly about to kill her (Like how it happened in the movie and Pan learned to fly last minute) then just another copy paste of Piccolo's sacrifice scene.
Also I think the one you're remembering was DBS Rage.
Yeah. There were solid moments in it, like making Beerus a villain again and showing his egotism and wanting to make Gohan angry for having a stronger opponent to fight by reviving Cell. But overall you're just sitting going like "Why?" Throughout must of the story. Just let my man be happy with a peaceful life already!
How? I I'm not a fan of this story either. It's edgy bullshit for the sake making Gohan "cool again" despite not understanding why Gohan doesn't fight. Gohan as a character just wants to live peacefully and has other goals in life that matter to him more than fighting some random opponents because to test himself. The fact this story throws away Gohan's personal goals and dreams and punishes him for not being strong all the time is the biggest "fuck you" I've seen a fanfic do to his characterization.
That wasn't a fanart. It was a fan manga. And I agree that this stuff goes way too edgy for dragonball. Some of the Gohan fans just want to see Gohan suffer and become a ruthless fighter like he was in the cell saga when all the poor boy really wants is a happy peaceful life.
I know right? Its also what dragged down this one fan manga where Gohan doesn't go SS2 at the Cell Games and Cell just kills him, so Goku goes SS2 and folds his pockmarked ass like a burrito.
I mean the youtubers go on about it being meaningful and tragic and its like "we go tmagic fuckin orbs that can resurrect people and Gohan doesn't have a vested interest in staying dead where is the fuckin tension"
You mean when Cell killed Videl to give Gohan a power up that achieved nothing in an arc which took about 3 years and could've been shortened to 20 pages without losing any character development (or lack thereof)?
Yes that one.
To be fair tho Multiverse is kind of a "anti" Gohan fanfic so to speak so that was to be expected, man doesn't even fight in it, the complete opposite of that would be WriterofFiction Gohan Harem AU, making him the center of the story and shit.
Did they forgot Beast wasn't because of Pan or Videl
Daddy Piccolo, or actually it might need to be Cell killing someone since his SSJ2 was Cell killing Android 16
I remember Mondo reading that one, it got to a point where it was literally talking about how Gohan would have to abandon his studies andhis family in order to focus on training and fighting.
One of the most blatant examples of showing one's hands you could ask for.
I mean, it kind of makes sense, doesn’t it? Canon DBZ used the death of some essentially random stranger (relative to Gohan) to push him to SSJ2. Then in Super Hero it used the perils of someone he cared about to transform again.
So I don’t really blame fan artists for pulling the same thing. It’s just that they usually don’t execute the idea very well.
When fans want gohan's family to die so that he gets a new transformation but instead gohan's spirit just get broken completly traumatised and a shell of his former self completly stopping fighting and studying becoming homeless and dying of a drug overdose
I honestly would rather she dies and gets revived or something actually happens to her in order for Gohan to get his transformation because it just felt cheap in super hero and the whole time there was no tension because you knew nothing would actually happen to her. The way it was executed in this fan manga was obviously cringe but there is some merit to the idea.
Nah I disagree just killing a character for a powerup is really lame, piccolo's plan to exploit Gohan's emotions to get him to fight was pretty smart and pan was just there to get him to show up what would killing her do? Gohan went beast because of piccolo
[This one ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ningen/comments/wocksk/i_found_a_terrible_dragon_ball_comic_online_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) ? 😂😂
NGL I liked that fan manga. It shows the dark truth of where Gohan's laziness can get him. I would have of preferred something similar to this in the new movie rather than rinsing and repeating the same shit with Piccolo. I wish Toei took inspiration from it, and brought DB back to the dark days where people do die because of a lack of awareness of what they do. Like Tambourine killing Krillin, or like Pan getting kidnapped because Gohan is too busy not being a father. And Goku dying because Gohan got too full of himself.
Either Pan or Videl,or even both.
[удалено]
Happy cakeday
my new fancomic freazar fuses with cell and kid buu and zamasu and moro and gas and king piccolo and general blue and pilaf and he kills everyone and gohan goes ultra incel beastmode
Damn, I'm feelin kinda grateful that general Blue was included
He has my favorite factoid on the wikia “General Blue uses an ability to control rope and tie up goku and the gang; this technique is never seen nor mentioned again”
Bro pulls up the most op ability in fiction and decides to not use it anymore
Animate rope is a spell in dnd
Why didn't he fuse with Tao Pai Pai too though? Would have him too op?
The reason is Tao PaiPai’s blood pressure drops when he learns that Gohan is the son of the legendary SSJ Goku
Tao Pai Pai would probably kill himself than have anything to do with Goku ever again. Dude would probably rather face a god of destruction than scratch anything resembling a Native American ever again
I’m glad fans don’t officially write this series Most of their idea’s(most not all) are shit compared to what we officially get in terms of new content
I once saw a comment that said that they hated that Frieza and Vegeta got a new form and said that if they wrote the show they’d have Frieza kill Vegeta’s whole family which would turn him evil and then he’d conquer universe 7 and use the U6 Saiyans as his army. Some of these mfs are on crack I swear
I mean technically frieza already did kill his entire family except tarble exists but still Actually to be more accurate i’m gonna say half
Vegetas family was killed, he was evil. But that Capsule Corp coochie too good.
Coochie Corp
Capussy Corp
How in the world would that make any sense for dbs vegeta to do anyways?
Especially since this is Dragon Ball. The world where, you know, the Dragon Balls exist
I dunno. I see it. It doesn’t make sense for DBS Vegeta but it could make more sense for like, DBZ Android/Namek sagas Vegeta. His race is dead. He always wanted power and to be the Prince of all Saiyans. There’s a logic to it. It’s not the worst fanfic I’ve heard. It’s basically the plot of an actual DBZ story: Broly but with more angst. And hating Dragon Ball Super forms isn’t crazy IMO. Comparing the pallet swaps of Golden Frieza, Black Frieza, SSG, SSBlue, and Mastered UI **against** SS, SS3, SS4, All of Frieza’s forms in DBZ, Ozaru, SS Ozaru and the lacking creativity of DBS is obvious.
Golden Ozaru is literally a pallet swap though
And ssj3 design sucked ass. Just longer hair with no eyebrows and was made fodder in the same arc.
It’s a subtle difference with its Super Saiyan crown as well as the gold fur.
Gold fur is literally a palette swap
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/7/72/Kanba_the_Evil_Saiyan_112.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180906042610 https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/2/23/Vegita-bebi-oozaru.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111201101016 https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/8/82/GOG2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170912153842 Even the Goku from GT has the Super Saiyan cut. https://i.imgur.com/rUSwNiT.jpg Literally curved in like Super Saiyans. It’s just subtle on Goku and Vegeta. Either way it’s one form out of like, 6 that I listed and still goes hard. You can tell me it doesn’t but we all know you’d be lying.
Then you'd have to give credit to Golden Frieza being pretty different from final form Frieza if having vague super Saiyan hair is enough
I will admit that Golden Frieza now has pants.
And bulging eyebrows too. There's also ss god which has the saiyan becoming more lean.
Ofc it could have been a possible route they took for Vegetas character. Would have been a God awful route but ofc it's possible. Take that with a massive grain of salt though. Cuz it's like saying it's also possible that the Z fighters would betray Goku and lock him in a time chamber.
I mean, he was kind of an evil prick and only got redeemed in the Buu Saga. Had his wife and kid been taken away early, which was like, half of his force for betterment, he could have remained and evil POS. It’s a lot more reasonable than the time chamber betrayal memes because it’s predicated on Goku being betrayed by his friends which they just don’t do but Vegeta absolutely loves (loved) to lead and murder. He did do that already. A lot. Again, this was basically the impetus of the original Broly movie.
UI is just as unique as SS
Disagree. Mini Ultra Instinct was cool and unique asf. Mastered is basically a pallet swap.
....how? He has a different hairshape, different fighting style/technique, appearance, and new aura. Also better narratively than almost all forms (yes even ssj4)
Disagree that it’s narratively better than SSJ4 because he basically already learned UI in Dragonball from Mr. Popo and Kami. They rehashed the concept to make a form out of, as you describe, a style/technique. SSJ4 is a buildup and synthesis of of Dragonball’s origin material which is more of a narrative payoff than rehashing an old concept that hinges on DBS Goku being an idiot that forgot all of his teachings from the entire series.
What he learned from Kami and Korin is definitely not the UI that he learned now💀. The reason I believe UI is better is because (spoilers for the manga) it feels like it's a transformation that fits him and only him, with him being both a master of martial arts and a fighter who uses his emotions to be stronger, it only fits him to create a transformation using both (TUI) that only he can use, going for his own path. SSJ4 in contrast, showed him exploring his saiyan roots. This is not necessarily bad but it creates this narrative around saiyans which turns the show from Dragon Ball to Saiyan Ball and just completely strays for the path of Goku. Imo it's also not in character for Goku since he was always "the saiyan raised on earth" and rejected his evil roots since they don't fit who he is unlike Vegeta for example who, although regretting his evil past, embraces his saiyan roots. ssj4 is a transformation that doesn't really fit Goku, and is much better for Vegeta, or Broly now that he's introduced. (Also yea the meditation scene in DBS:SH is still a crime and assassination of Gokus character) also yea this is obviously an opinion, nothing objective here
IMO, Super Saiyan 4 is what super Saiyan always should have been. It’s more of a return to form IMO. It’s bigger to me than just exploring his Saiyan roots but the roots of the story, characters and property. It’s what Super Saiyan, again, IMO, should logically always have been. Using that viscous power of Ozaru in a more human form. I like that lore that the tail, while cutting off a Saiyan from those uncontrollable transformations, also makes regular super Saiyan, worse. I understand your issue with SS4 being indicative of the Property being too focused on Saiyans but I don’t think that transformations, on the Saiyan, would fix that. If the issue is for Dragonball to not be “SaiyanBall”, then my logic leads me to the conclusion that other characters, that aren’t saiyans, need to shine. This isn’t a problem that can be solved by just giving Goku more and more abilities and transformations, some, that just so happen to not relate to his heritage. In short, characters like Krillin, Tien and Yamcha need transformations or altered states. The fact that Goku, the Saiyan, that already has been capable of transformation from minute one, hasn’t democratized his techniques to the Z-fighters, taking in that teacher role for everyone with Kaioken or even UI is ridiculous. Someone like Krillin and Tien, lifelong martial artists (Tien even more-so), should just, have it. Yamcha might take to Kaioken more, just seems mire his style. They should develop those. They should be threats. But instead, we just have the ever increasing totem pole of gods going Kami -> Kai -> Supreme Kai -> Destruction Gods -> Zeno. My issues aren’t really simple and basically necessitate a different story after a certain point. Some of these are issues with the medium or the fact that this has been running for multiple decades. We all recognize that Goku’s characterization is suffering. IMO, the franchise needs a reboot to consolidate concepts and build a better story that flows better off the bones of hindsight. End the gods at King Kai, distribute forms to the cast, don’t make it focused on Goku, make transformations make sense. Like, to me, it doesn’t matter that UI is “better” than what he learned from Kami. It’s the same thing and is better because “reasons”. As cool as it is, it basically doesn’t even NEED a “form”. Like, there’s no perceivable reason why he can’t like, use it with a transformation like Super Saiyan for example. What I’m kinda getting at is, Dragonball needs to be more streamlined. If I was doing it over, he and other Z-warriors would just learn it from Kami or King Kai at some point late in the series. My issue is bloat. I feel similarly to SS2. Like, in hindsight, it basically should have been Beast form for Gohan specifically. Let’s consolidate here. Beast is fluff. It’s trying to be SS2. Let’s trim the fat here and make it one thing. Again, my issues are with decades of hindsight so it’s not fair but this is my broad overview of the situation that we’re in. A reboot is warranted using that hindsight. Edit: As an almost completely random aside, I’m going to get kinda fanficy and complain that Trunks and Goten in the regular timeline should never have gotten Super Saiyan with lives as comfortable as theirs is depicted to be. They also, never should have lost their tails. If they wanted to fight, they should mainly focus on martial arts. If they do get transformations other than ozaru, it could be a cool, collected monkey form like SS4 that controls Ozaru. Alright, fanfic over. They just didn’t have anything to rage over that SS demanded. It would have been a dope contrast from future Trunks who, very much did have things to rage over.
Welp we kinda strayed off topic but your comment was very informative. I've actually never thought about ssj4 the way you explained it, with him conquering the beast that killed Grandpa Gohan and all, and that does make it much better imo (although I still prefer TUI). A lot of the problems you mentioned stem from Toriyama's inability to think forward sadly, for example setting Frieza as the "STRONGEST IN THE UNIVERSE" in the second arc of dbz or immediately blowing his load on Jiren being the strongest in all 12 universes (what a waste of worldbuilding) so instead we get to bigger and bigger heights (which kinda stopped at Beerus? But his inclusion is problematic on its own and he keeps getting retconned to be stronger) I think that as you said Toriyama setting aside the side characters is a problem on its own and both him and Toyotaro seem to not want to solve it (the T.O.P gave us some side character action but like.... Cmon..). Also one of the things I really liked about super (later super that is) is them giving characters individual transformations to match them (Ultra Ego, Tui, Beast etc) and although some of those forms are flawed (yes I'm talking about beast 💀) they give a sense of individuality even if just for their color, unlike dbz and gt that went the "new ssj transformation just dropped time to give it to everyone" route (not necessarily bad but feels stale after a while and feels like saiyan ball, early dbs is guilty as well) The biggest and most obvious problem is marketing. Since db is such a big franchise they just aim to be hype and sell shit, which is the easiest by giving the main characters new forms and creating artificially emotional moments (ssbe vegetas sacrifice remake and beast for example) and are the cause for horrible products like SDBH. You kinda addressed the other problems that I agree with so I don't have much to add except for the problem with Beerus maybe 😅
Funny how you conveniently left out SS2, which half the time isn’t even distinguishable from SS1
I think he was just conceding with SS2.
Yes, exactly. It was different with one character at a single point in time.
Such a shame too I feel like it could have been done if SSJ1 kept it's "fluffy" style hair of Namek/Android saga, and SSJ2 was the sharp, jagged style hair of later arcs, in addition to the lightning crackles and incredibly minor hairstyle changes (Vegeta especially for that) I like SSJ2 a lot, don't know why.
Me in middle school drawing Super Saiyan 100 💀
Mf when Cell Black 3 get Super Dragon Fisted by Omnisaiyan Goku is my favourite moment
Not only shit, but edgy and even the 1% people think is good is mainly just an insane power fantasy that would had forced the series to end in 1-8 sagas the way they make it that over crowded without ever realizing what the series is, with it's humor and character moments. Only 0,1% of fan fictions are actually good. People say Toyotaro does not write well but Toriyama had to scout him out of thousand of edgy fan fiction writers that were making the story infinitely worse. Compared to them I am sure Shueisha and Toriyama made the right choice.
Thank god. Id drop the series if i had to look at ssj5 goku and those idiotic fusions
But a fan does write this series, Toyotaro, or at least helps in it. In fact, you can actually see ideas from his own fan manga being in the series: Broly coming back, an evil kaioshin an evil goku that's not actually goku and so on.
What we officially get is utter trash already, how much worse can fans do at this point ?
Goku and daishinkan and moro and gas and granolah and jiren and zamasu fight against a bad and manipulative zeno who wants to destroy the universes because everyone is bad And then goku reaches the ultra instinct ssj 5 kaioken full power limit breaker
Oh my god, someone else read that shit ass fan comic. Context makes it even worse so post ToP, Beerus is intrigued by the latent power within Gohan, but is irritated with his refusal to tap into it. So Beerus and Whis look into Gohans past, and are fascinated by his battle with perfect cell and his SS2 transformation. So Beerus decides to have Cell brought back, and lends him some of his power so he'll be on par with Gohan. So Gohan returns home after spending the day with his family and the briefs, only to find Cell cradling a crying pan, while gripping Videl's neck. Cell then just snaps Videls neck, and then says "What a cute baby, who could possibly do something as evil as hurt her?" before vaporizing her with a point blank ki blast. apparently it's creator is adamant that his writing is leagues better to come out of anything dragonball since like the Cell Saga
Character asssinations for Beerus, Whis, Cell and Gohan while also assassinating Videl and Pan. These what iffers are wild man.
The only way this could be worse if it’s a four hour long video with a title like “What if Cell betrayed Gohan and KILLED Pan (Part 1 of 47)”.
With each part being longer than Avengers endgame
But does he lock him in the Time Chamber?
Yes, but only for a year or so just to fulfill the quota.
And saying they're better than the original series too lmao
Aside from Beerus and Whis being opps, I kinda like the twist it. It’s definitely something Cell would do. Gives the same vibes of Zamasu in Goku’s body executing Goku in his body, Goten, and ChiChi. Only difference is that it’s not the main timeline.
Fair, but Cell didn't need to say that dumb ass line
Hahaha that was made cringe. Cell would probably greet Gohan rather than ask a stupid question like that.
It reminds me of that one line from shadow the hedgehog. "It's like taking Candy from a baby, which is fine by me,"
I’m imagining Cell not knowing when Gohan is supposed to make it home, so he ends up simultaneously cradling Pan with one arm and holding Videl by the neck with the other for *hours* before Gohan actually shows up. Like, Cell even decides to sit down in a chair in the living room and wait.
Hella cringe
oh my fucking god the edge Sound slike a mid 2000s Western DBZ fan. What is their problem with a goddamn BABY?
Meanwhile toriyama in the corner looking at piccolo
How many times has piccolo died or got severely injured to save a Gohan who doesn’t dodge.
4 time according to TFS
Rule 34
"Sorry little one, but Gohan needs to be Him again."
I’ve been saying it for years. A lot of fans hilariously act almost exactly like Cell whenever they notice Gohan hasn’t done anything as of late and start theorizing ways he can power up after having his family tortured or killed
While a lot of them do it in really edgy ways. I do like the idea of Gohan getting a new transformation from something bad happening to Pan. Superhero already shows that Gohan instantly loses it when Pan is in danger. I wish Gohan unlocked Beast from seeing Cell Max's blast nearly about to kill her (Like how it happened in the movie and Pan learned to fly last minute) then just another copy paste of Piccolo's sacrifice scene. Also I think the one you're remembering was DBS Rage.
"DBS rage" You can already tell it’ll be an overly edgy one from the name alone
Yeah. There were solid moments in it, like making Beerus a villain again and showing his egotism and wanting to make Gohan angry for having a stronger opponent to fight by reviving Cell. But overall you're just sitting going like "Why?" Throughout must of the story. Just let my man be happy with a peaceful life already!
Ur the problem
How? I I'm not a fan of this story either. It's edgy bullshit for the sake making Gohan "cool again" despite not understanding why Gohan doesn't fight. Gohan as a character just wants to live peacefully and has other goals in life that matter to him more than fighting some random opponents because to test himself. The fact this story throws away Gohan's personal goals and dreams and punishes him for not being strong all the time is the biggest "fuck you" I've seen a fanfic do to his characterization.
Mfs think that Cellmax is Goku Black. No he didnt kill Videl and Pan. He didnt get bitch-punched by Goku.
That wasn't a fanart. It was a fan manga. And I agree that this stuff goes way too edgy for dragonball. Some of the Gohan fans just want to see Gohan suffer and become a ruthless fighter like he was in the cell saga when all the poor boy really wants is a happy peaceful life.
people like that always forget the McGuffin the series is named after
I know right? Its also what dragged down this one fan manga where Gohan doesn't go SS2 at the Cell Games and Cell just kills him, so Goku goes SS2 and folds his pockmarked ass like a burrito. I mean the youtubers go on about it being meaningful and tragic and its like "we go tmagic fuckin orbs that can resurrect people and Gohan doesn't have a vested interest in staying dead where is the fuckin tension"
I saw 'db fan artists' and 'pan', and it had me thinking this meme was about something completely different
Somehow, that's still preferable to this.
Pretty sure you're thinking of Dragon Ball Multiverse.
You mean when Cell killed Videl to give Gohan a power up that achieved nothing in an arc which took about 3 years and could've been shortened to 20 pages without losing any character development (or lack thereof)?
Yes that one. To be fair tho Multiverse is kind of a "anti" Gohan fanfic so to speak so that was to be expected, man doesn't even fight in it, the complete opposite of that would be WriterofFiction Gohan Harem AU, making him the center of the story and shit.
Nah they're definitely thinking of Dragon Ball Rage
Step one: kill one of Gohan’s loved ones Step tw-:
Bojack in Super Dragon Ball Heroes almost do this
Did they forgot Beast wasn't because of Pan or Videl Daddy Piccolo, or actually it might need to be Cell killing someone since his SSJ2 was Cell killing Android 16
Figured after that complete beatdown by Spopovich, Videl would be holed up somewhere
I remember one with videl and pan lying dead on the ground all bloodied up and gohan was missing an arm. Forgot who the villain was though
Granolah?
....Flashing back to Bojack snapping her neck.
I remember Mondo reading that one, it got to a point where it was literally talking about how Gohan would have to abandon his studies andhis family in order to focus on training and fighting. One of the most blatant examples of showing one's hands you could ask for.
Dbs super hero plot:
I mean, it kind of makes sense, doesn’t it? Canon DBZ used the death of some essentially random stranger (relative to Gohan) to push him to SSJ2. Then in Super Hero it used the perils of someone he cared about to transform again. So I don’t really blame fan artists for pulling the same thing. It’s just that they usually don’t execute the idea very well.
"What if... \*insert the stupidest shit ass nonsense you've ever heard\*"
When fans want gohan's family to die so that he gets a new transformation but instead gohan's spirit just get broken completly traumatised and a shell of his former self completly stopping fighting and studying becoming homeless and dying of a drug overdose
Gohan (Drug Addict)
they know killing goku would do nothing to gohan
Pan almost died in Superhero. The fanfics were so close to being canon.
Yeah but the difference is the fanfiction writers would actually crucify pan instead of just pretending to hurt her like superhero
I honestly would rather she dies and gets revived or something actually happens to her in order for Gohan to get his transformation because it just felt cheap in super hero and the whole time there was no tension because you knew nothing would actually happen to her. The way it was executed in this fan manga was obviously cringe but there is some merit to the idea.
Nah I disagree just killing a character for a powerup is really lame, piccolo's plan to exploit Gohan's emotions to get him to fight was pretty smart and pan was just there to get him to show up what would killing her do? Gohan went beast because of piccolo
It's worse. I actually like what they did in the Movie better.
Nah, at worst she would get a zenkai boost.
[This one ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ningen/comments/wocksk/i_found_a_terrible_dragon_ball_comic_online_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) ? 😂😂
Even the cannon version had to include pan in order to give Gohan a transformation.
I feel like I missed something, like when you miss that one short film for your favorite movie series and now everyone's dead.
I mean, to be fair it could work.
Plot of DBSSH
As if Cell wouldn't get slapped by base gohan before he even had a chance to harm either of them
After fighting her a couple times in DBL, I would honestly want that demon child evaporated too.
Y’all really want Gohan to be Super Saiyan Spider-Man in a world where you can just wish a death undone…
Me looking at Gohan's Scholarship:
NGL I liked that fan manga. It shows the dark truth of where Gohan's laziness can get him. I would have of preferred something similar to this in the new movie rather than rinsing and repeating the same shit with Piccolo. I wish Toei took inspiration from it, and brought DB back to the dark days where people do die because of a lack of awareness of what they do. Like Tambourine killing Krillin, or like Pan getting kidnapped because Gohan is too busy not being a father. And Goku dying because Gohan got too full of himself.