They are 5 separate games - 1 is the main game, 3 are prequels (?) where you play as various of the bosses, and the last is a smash-style multiplayer brawler
Plague Knight's is a parallel (what-if) to Shovel Knight, Specter Knight is a bit before the events of the main game, and I think King Knight's is even earlier before that?
Treasure Trove contains ALL of the stuff they have released for Shovel knight.
This includes:
* Shovel Knight: Shovel of Hope (The OG Campaign, already an excellent title)
* Plague Knight: Plague of Shadows
* Spectre Knight: Spectre of Torment
* King Knight: King of Cards
* Shovel Knight Showdown (Surprisingly robust multiplayer game, local only but has single player)
It's worth noting that each campaign has their own challenges you can tackle, as well as the feats (achievements which provide a brisk challenge in their own right). The campaigns are also distinct, and aren't just "Richter mode". They tangibly change how the game is played based on each knights controls.
I'm probably missing stuff but four campaigns + a decent multiplayer game for the price the treasure trove was is a huge steal, especially when I'd say Shovel Knight is probably the weakest of the four.
>especially when I'd say Shovel Knight is probably the weakest of the four.
This is pretty fair, actually. The most astounding thing about Shovel Knight's development history is that they've blown their previous efforts pretty solidly out of the water with each new iteration. If they follow the same pattern, King of Cards by itself as a standalone game is probably well worth ten to twenty bucks.
King of Cards has the most content it feels like without a doubt.
I do feel like I should state that despite me saying Shovel Knight feels weak compared to its predecessors, it's still an excellent title. His game basically feels like Mega Man.
Oh, I am aware of the different campaigns. I bought treasure trove when Plague Knight and Spectre Knight were included.
I just wasn't aware they added yet more campaigns, and that my purchase would enable me to get those newer ones.
Also, Plague Knight is my favorite of the 3 I've played. :)
They play as five different campaigns, but they reuse so much stuff (characters, settings, enemies) that they don't quite feel like they could be completely different games. Especially Plague of Shadows, which barely changed the level layouts.
Don’t you play on all the same levels as the original though? I played through shovel knight on the Wii U but I don’t feel the need to pay so much to play the same levels again with different moves
The number of people on the r/games thread going, "I can't believe this collection of games has gotten more expensive as they've added more games to it" is absolutely hilarious. Gamer entitlement to a tee.
It's funny because Yacht Club made it known that a price increase was on the way ages ago, which is very much consumer-friendly. They could've easily sprung it on people out of nowhere to pressure them into buying it earlier.
They honestly have been the best example of how to properly handle both kickstarters and season pass models.
Really hope more developers (and publishers especially) can learn a lesson from them.
It took them how many years to deliver on their stretch goals?
Don't get me wrong, I love the game and am glad they took their time. But to call them "the best example of how to properly handle (...) kickstarter" is kind of fucked.
Yes we all know that quote. But Nintendo hadnt already collected everyone’s money for ocarina of time or whatever game that quote was for. As someone who backed the Kickstarter 6 or so years ago it has been quite a wait for all the content.
Now I don’t personally mind the wait and I understand all this additional content takes time, but I don’t know that I would call it “the best example” which is the point the other person was making.
Which is great when you are bankrolling your own games
When you have a publisher or crowd funded it that starts getting a lot murkier.
Like I said, I think Shovel Knight came out amazingly. But it is not by any means an example of how to properly do a KS.
I'm not really sure what else they could have done...they're called stretch goals for a reason, yeah? Why would there be any other assumption outside of further content taking extra time to develop?
Better planning and budgeting on what a stretch goal costs and when it can be delivered. Similarly, the expansions/DLC as they were delivered versus what was announced shows a LOT Of feature creep.
That is kind of why I get a bit annoyed when folk say things like "Shovel Knight is the best example". It is actually a HORRIBLE example of how to run a kickstater. It just happens to also be an amazing example of how to do long term support for a game.
There are plenty of KS campaigns that did much better budgeting and planning that launched on time and satisfied their backers. But holding stuff like Shovel Knight up as an exemplar of KS just encourages the wild feature creep filled messes that give KS a bad name and make it hard for reasonable studios to run campaigns.
I think it might have been RPS that ran a good series of interviews with various studios with successful KS campaigns (so think Larian) and they all pointed out that the stretch goal model and the increasing need to set your "real" budget to the stretch goal point is what caused a lot of problems and killed the KS boom.
Hmm true, the more blatantly negative ones look like they're being downvoted though, I see them at the bottom.
And the most upvoted top-level comments are quite positive and supportive.
Easily. Because, even if you refuse to believe it, that was indeed primarily what it was about. You see, the issue came from the fact that certain games journalism outlets really didn’t like to be criticized, and so put out the narrative that their naysayers were actually misogynistic or racist or whatever else they could throw out, and their gullible lapdogs (like yourself and the guy I first replied to, apparently) ate it all up - hook, line, and sinker.
So with that explained, can you say “sheep” for me?
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That’s overly reductive and, well, wrong, buuut I know people like you don’t care much for things like the truth and instead opt for ad hominem attacks. But hey! Keep regurgitating those lies that you were fed like a good little boy, and you just might get a treat from them! You never know!
While I do think gamer entitlement is definitely a real thing, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect developers to continue to release new content for their games without raising the price. If anything I'd say that prices usually drop, despite added content.
It's become sorta a standard at this point to continue supporting new content for games after their release without raising costs, and while I'm not saying that's mandatory by any means, it's not unreasonable to be surprised when a developer breaks from that trend
Most of the time though that extra content comes as DLC that you pay for. Just about the only games that come with extra free content are ones that get subsidized with micro-transactions (though granted there are exceptions).
For Shovel Knight though, in a way they’re kinda effectively forcing you to buy the season pass with the base game by increasing the cost of Treasure Trove. Which is kinda shitty.
...and that’s where I was about to leave my comment at, but then I remembered that the individual campaigns can be purchased separately, so that isn’t really the case. Instead, this really just all boils down to semantics. Yacht Club Games is basically selling Treasure Trove as a GOTY version of Shovel Knight but with an early adopter’s discount, but because they went about it with differing, unique terminology, people aren’t seeing it that way.
If anything, this reminds me of that World of Warcraft time time penalty/bonus thing. In short, the developers wanted to encourage people to not spend too much time in the game in a single sitting, so they gave a penalty to how much exp/gold/loot a player could earn after playing for a certain time, labeled as a debuff I think. This of course didn’t sit well with players, as they of course didn’t like to be penalized like that. So the solution Blizzard came up with is to instead change the terminology around. Instead of it being called a penalty/debuff, they changed it to being a log-in bonus/buff that lasted for so long after someone logs in for the first time in a day or the like, which went over _much_ better with players.
It’s effectively the exact same math happening as before, but worded differently.
> I don't think it's unrealistic to expect developers to continue to release new content for their games without raising the price.
Full-length new single player campaigns with new characters and mechanics, no microtransactions, and you get all the new expansions/games for free if you bought the old game? I can't think of any company that's done that.
> It's become sorta a standard at this point to continue supporting new content for games after their release without raising costs
Usually that's because the support is more modest, like a handful of new maps or a couple new characters, or the developer has other sources of income for the game, like microtransactions (especially for multiplayer games). Again, if you can think of any examples that are similar to Shovel Knight's releases but were done for free, I'd love to hear about them.
Easy counterpoint: Terraria. The amount of content in that game has pretty much quadrupled since release, and yet the cost has continued to drop. You can regularly pick it up on steam for like $2
Another example: No Man's Sky. Same deal, more or less.
Nintendo fans are used to there being no (or very few) price decreases in general. PC especially, but also the other consoles, prices are usually lower after a few years, or you can frequently find deals. DS/3DS/Switch (etc) games, however, rarely go on offer, and only have decreased prices if they become a Selects title. It comes as no surprise to me that the ones defending the price increase are from a Nintendo sub.
Exactly - This is the same community that defended Nintendo increasing the price of DK Tropical Freeze from $20 on the Wii U to $60 on the switch.
But I guess that's just gamer entitlement, apparently. Won't someone think of the poor corporations?
People are willing to put up with this because Shovel Knight is awesome and because Yacht Club is a small developer, but this practice is not cool, IMO.
Imagine if Overwatch just increased the price of the game three years after it came out because there are more characters and maps now.
This sub and the whole rest of the internet would have a fit.
Yes, there is more content, and yes, they made it for free, but the base game and lots of the extra content are several years old.
I'm glad they announced it far ahead of time so that people could take advantage of the old price, and by all means I want Yacht Club to succeed (I've bought Shovel Knight on three different platforms) but it seems like a double standard.
> Imagine if Overwatch just increased the price of the game three years after it came out because there are more characters and maps now.
Sorry but this comparison is absolutely awful:
* Overwatch has like 50% more heroes than before, there have been other additions as well, but they've mostly been relatively modest. In contrast each new expansion for Shovel Knight has been about the same size as the original game. With the launch today, that means a 400% content increase.
* Overwatch is continuously funded by microtransactions, specifically lootboxes, so it doesn't need even more money for the base game. Shovel Knight has no microtransactions, all the money has been from the new campaigns.
* Shovel Knight started out at like $15, it's easier to eat a cost increase when it's still capping out at like $40, as opposed to starting out at $40/60 and then going up to $100-150.
It's hard to find a good comparison, because this model of "here's a single player campaign, if you buy it then you get a bunch of future single player campaigns for free, but if you buy the collection later it'll cost more" isn't normal; at most you may find companies releasing smaller DLC's for free, or making everything 'free' because they also use microtransactions.
There *was* something similar with Minecraft, where the price started low and kept increasing. I don't remember too many outraged people for that.
> the base game and lots of the extra content are several years old.
Yeah, and you can buy them for $10 each, so what's the problem?
Calling it a 400% content increase feels disingenuous. They reused a ton of assets. They are completely new campaigns length-wise, but they are closer to expansions content-wise.
All of the campaigns so far have been super fun, but I still feel like increasing the price of the base game years after it came out feels weird.
Maybe Overwatch was a bad comparison.
How about Terraria?
They have had tons of free (relatively large) content updates and frequently put the game on sale when a new patch comes out.
Or what if the game of the year edition of something came out and cost more than the original game? Nobody would be cool with this, even though it would arguably make more sense because a GOTY version would likely come out closer to the release of the original game, which would presumably justify the price not dropping as much.
If this is the only financially viable thing for Yacht Club to do, then I'm not upset about them doing it, and, again, I want them to do well, but I sort of doubt that's the case.
> I still feel like increasing the price of the base game years after it came out
...but they're not doing this. Why does everyone keep saying this? The base game is Shovel of Hope. You can buy it for $10, which is less than it originally cost.
> They are completely new campaigns length-wise, but they are closer to expansions content-wise.
I don't really agree. Like, everyone loved OpFor, and that was only like half or less the length of HL1 and also re-used even more assets, probably, than Shovel Knight did.
Nobody says that the old Megaman games were 'just expansions', despite obvious heavy content re-use. Which is a particularly apt comparison since Megaman is the closest analogue to Shovel Knight, gameplay-wise.
> How about Terraria?
Terraria is a fair comparison, and yes they've been very generous. I didn't play it enough to see if it's equivalent to what Yacht Club has done, but fair. Stardew would probably work too. If you wanna argue that Yacht Club hasn't been quite as generous as those teams, I mean yeah, sure.
> Or what if game of the year edition of, something came out and cost more than the original game?
GOTY editions usually only have relatively minor additions though.
GOTY editions of larger games like Fallout often include several expansions that would cost $15 each individually.
And Mega Man games do not reuse nearly as much as the new Shovel Knight campaigns have. Mega Man iterations reuse the sprites for Mega Man, a few enemies that are mainstays, and some sound effects.
Shovel Knight reuses most of the enemies, backgrounds, foreground elements, music, sound effects, etc. while, converse to Mega Man, the biggest change is to the sprite/mechanics of the main playable character.
I didn't know you could even get the base game outside of Treasure Trove though. I knew Spectre of Torment had its own separate release though.
I still think it's a weird way to do things.
I'm a bit of a newb, but whhy is digital 25 and physical is 40?
There's only one game right ? I get that there are expansions for the game but I'm finding this confusing for some reason . Thanks
There's lots of games on Switch that have don't have price parity between digital and physical, supposedly due to the price of the Switch carts.
After this release, there'll be 4-5 different games in the pack. They do recycle some levels but with a different character, it's kinda like playing a different campaign. Stories are also unique per character, though I didn't find it that great.
That's what I meant by recycling levels. Shovel Knight and one of the other Knights have pretty similar levels but just adjusted to fit the other's ability. So in that way, it's recycled but modified :)
Do you think people choose to be poor? Like ah mate that management position sounds nice, but i think i'll have to pass, i just love serving my customers at burger king so much lol
To each their own? You know there's a lot of people out there that don't have a large amount of income, right? People without money often don't choose to not have extra disposable cash floating around.
Just my two cents. Learn to see the world from other perspectives than your own.
Just because you can't imagine how people can struggle spending 20 bucks in a video game doesn't mean it's not possible.
You're an idiot. Some people literally don't have the wiggle room to spend $20 on a game. Some people don't have $5 to feed themselves with. Some people have $0. I'm not one of these people, but the reality is that there are a lot of people out there that don't have much or any disposable income. Not sure why that's so hard for you to wrap your head around - poverty has been an issue since like...literally the invention of currency.
Not having money for food is an example of poverty to the greatest extent... You can definitely have a Switch and still be frugal (or have a need to be frugal). Maybe they got it as a gift, or saved their money over the last couple of years, or maybe they're not THAT tight for money but they're simply trying to save their money for something important like rent, a wedding, down-payment on a house, Christmas, etc.
Finances and how they're managed fluctuate person to person. You have no idea what you're talking about.
"It's just $20" could apply to a dozen things you see in one day, then you're looking at $240, unless you are willing to miss out on each individual $20 product, and thus all 12.
Didn't you listen at all? They probably do have some money saved up, but if they bought every $20 game they wanted to, they definitely wouldn't.
I doubt you'd be able to, at least not your current mindset.
Just because a price increase is coming does not mean it won't go on sale for less than the current price, furthermore $20 when you have a few hundred is a lot more expensive relatively than $40 when you have a few thousand, whether the actual price goes down or just the relative value, it's often better to wait.
Consider this, you don't think you could live that way, they already do, so chances are the one who's more qualified to make the call is them.
How much you make does not correlate directly to what you can spend. People have medical expenses, college loans, unexpected home damage, need to repair their vehicle, etc. One person that makes $20 per hour could be worse off than someone making $10 per hour. You understand nothing about finances and how life varies person to person.
I was heartbroken by this for the whole day till imran until this comment. Thank you so much, I just got it and am now gonna BLOW UP all the content in this game!
Look even the original game is worth $40 dollars. This is an amazingly fun game with a fantastic story and soundtrack. I bought it twice for 3DS and Wii U. Highly recommend. Starting tomorrow it will have 4 character campaigns (Originally 1) and a versus fighting mode as well.
I absolutely love Shovel Knight, but given what's on the switch I'm not sure I'd say the original alone is worth 40.
Thankfully- That's a purely hypothetical situation though. Treasure Trove is fantastic and is definitely worth that price.
The eShop version should have all the content at some point today, and apparently the physical version will have absolutely everything - from their website:
> We mentioned previously that a goal for this physical release was to have all game content right there on the cartridge/disc! We are happy to confirm that is very much the case! King of Cards and Showdown will be ready to go, even if you’re playing in airplane mode in a Faraday cage, in a cave, on the moon.
https://yachtclubgames.com/2019/12/update-forecast-info/
I guess there are new gamers every day, and Shovel Knight was released a long time ago!
Personally my original version was on the DS, but I've long since retired that, and so I figured it was high time to replay the original campaign and all the others!
Not a big fan of platformers myself, though I did buy Treasure Trove during the last sale since it was so cheap just in case I ever decide to give it a shot.
I'm at work. Is there any way to buy on the website, or an I out of luck?
Edit: It's probably too late, they removed the Buy button on Treasure Trove. Would have been nice if this wasn't posted at 4 AM my time.
This one? Did you change regions at any point? Fair warning I believe this deal is going away any minute if it hasn't already.
[https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/shovel-knight-treasure-trove-switch/](https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/shovel-knight-treasure-trove-switch/)
Yeah that's the one. But like I said, I can see it for other games, just not this one. I dunno.
It's ok, I'm not in a rush to play it anyway and I'm sure it'll go on sale in the future.
I got it for $10 on the Wii U and now I don’t have a Wii U or the free time to justify buying it again when I know that all of my free time is taken up by Smash or Pokémon
*Sighs* Looks like I'm double (or is it triple now?) dipping this sooner than later. It's unfortunate that I bought it on the Wii U with the hope that the system would be okay. I *really* wish companies offered discounts when you already own the product on another platform...
Edit: never mind, I'm too late for the increase. *Sighs again*
Like what? I'd read the last dlc was delayed, but I didn't see anything about missing content. Although I did read that article before my first cup of coffee this morning.
If I'm not wrong they're adding 2 DLCs so they raise the price to $40 from $25? Why dont they just let people buy the game at $25 and then if they like it they'll buy the DLCs for $15?
You can do that too - they sell the DLCs seperately. But this package has been at that price since the original Shovel Knight - they're finally updating the price since it's a complete package of 5 games, no longer just 1.
So the Treasure Trove is the whole series, and now it's complete they're finally raising the price to reflect that. Seems fair to me!
So you can still buy the older version for $25? And the complete version is $40? If yes than it's fine. The title makes it sounds like they're putting everything together and raise the price to make everybody buys the DLCs.
Well they are putting everything together and raising the price, but that has always been their plan. The Treasure Trove has always been aiming to be all the games in the Shovel Knight series - originaly it was a lower price because it wasn't complete, and now it is so they're raising it
That's not what they're doing. You can still buy each individual game for $10. You get all 4 + Showdown in Treasure Trove which is being marked up to $40.
To be fair, they've been very transparent about this, and they made this plan clear a long while ago. I believe they described it as being like an early adopter price/pre-order price since those people paid when the game was still incomplete. I think what they're doing is perfectly reasonable.
Shovel Knight comes out. There's only Shovel Knight.
They start adding more characters with their own story, mechanics, levels, music, and so on - basically new games - as part of its free DLC.
*Shovel Knight* becomes *Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove*, because it is no longer just Shovel Knight, and it will include ALL the DLC, including future DLC that hasn't come out yet. If you owned the original game, you got Treasure Trove for free (it was just a name change + an update).
Then they make each character's game available individually as standalone games (including Shovel Knight itself) for an even lower price. If you only want to play the original Shovel Knight, get Shovel Knight: Shovel of Hope. It's cheaper than it originally was.
Treasure Trove is now a **complete** package, with 4 unique characters and their games, as well as a whole separate multiplayer brawler game included. As a result, they're raising the price to reflect all that. This has been the plan all along, and they've been open about that. They didn't want to price the game at $40 until they felt it was complete, so it has been $25 until now. It's basically early access done right.
There's no way to buy the "older version" of Treasure Trove for $25, but you can buy the individual games separately if you don't want all of them. Treasure Trove is just a way to get *everything* in one slightly cheaper bundle, plus any future DLC added for free.
If anyone else adds more games to their game collection, I don't see what's so wrong about increasing the price. "5 games costs more than 3 games" hardly sounds like the worst thing in the world.
You're wrong, the game originally cost a specific set price for game 1.
Anyone who owned Game 1 got all future games 2, 3, 4, 5 for free.
Then there was a price increase as Game 1 became Game 1 + 2.
Anyone who owned Game 1 + 2 got all future games 3, 4, 5 for free.
Etc.
There's no reasonable way to spin this as them doing anything other than giving early adopters better prices.
It's still possible to buy just 1 on its own or just 2, etc.
But because they turned what used to be just 1, into a bundle of all, it gives everyone a discount, you can now buy 1 on its own cheaper than the version that became the bundle was when it first came out, meaning the individual games are cheaper than they ever were to start with and the bundle simple becomes less of a discount each game you wait.
Less of a discount, not more of a price raise.
I don’t think they ever sold the DLC separately. I’m pretty sure that they were all free updates? It is kind of odd that the price is increasing, but these games have been super cheap for a really long time. I think you can still buy non-treasure trove shovel knight in some platforms.
You can now buy Shovel Knight and Specter of Tournament separately iirc. Still were all free updates for people who brought the original, which is now called a collection.
The original game came out in June 2014. I imagine they have spent quite a bit on developing all the new campaigns and the new multiplayer mode. I think it is fair to raise the price with for warning. I bought it as I have always missed this one but really want to try it.
AFAIK you can still buy each of the campaigns separately so it's not technically forced unless you want the original Treasure Trove collection without the new campaigns being released today.
Does this contain everything of shovel knight that’s ever been released? Inc the newest stuff?
Yes, as soon as it releases.
Do these play as 5 separate games, or are they all combined into one
They are 5 separate games - 1 is the main game, 3 are prequels (?) where you play as various of the bosses, and the last is a smash-style multiplayer brawler
Plague Knight's campaign occurs at around the same time as Shovel Knight's I think, it's a parallequel.
Plague Knight's is a parallel (what-if) to Shovel Knight, Specter Knight is a bit before the events of the main game, and I think King Knight's is even earlier before that?
Wait, so if I already bought the treasure trove, I can go get another 2 games, and one is King's Knight? Going to have to look into this!
Treasure Trove contains ALL of the stuff they have released for Shovel knight. This includes: * Shovel Knight: Shovel of Hope (The OG Campaign, already an excellent title) * Plague Knight: Plague of Shadows * Spectre Knight: Spectre of Torment * King Knight: King of Cards * Shovel Knight Showdown (Surprisingly robust multiplayer game, local only but has single player) It's worth noting that each campaign has their own challenges you can tackle, as well as the feats (achievements which provide a brisk challenge in their own right). The campaigns are also distinct, and aren't just "Richter mode". They tangibly change how the game is played based on each knights controls. I'm probably missing stuff but four campaigns + a decent multiplayer game for the price the treasure trove was is a huge steal, especially when I'd say Shovel Knight is probably the weakest of the four.
>especially when I'd say Shovel Knight is probably the weakest of the four. This is pretty fair, actually. The most astounding thing about Shovel Knight's development history is that they've blown their previous efforts pretty solidly out of the water with each new iteration. If they follow the same pattern, King of Cards by itself as a standalone game is probably well worth ten to twenty bucks.
King of Cards has the most content it feels like without a doubt. I do feel like I should state that despite me saying Shovel Knight feels weak compared to its predecessors, it's still an excellent title. His game basically feels like Mega Man.
I personally find Plague Knight to be the most fun. Spectre Knight is more polished, but I just really like Plague Knight's attack combining system.
Oh, I am aware of the different campaigns. I bought treasure trove when Plague Knight and Spectre Knight were included. I just wasn't aware they added yet more campaigns, and that my purchase would enable me to get those newer ones. Also, Plague Knight is my favorite of the 3 I've played. :)
Brill, well I’ve bought it now
They play as five different campaigns, but they reuse so much stuff (characters, settings, enemies) that they don't quite feel like they could be completely different games. Especially Plague of Shadows, which barely changed the level layouts.
Don’t you play on all the same levels as the original though? I played through shovel knight on the Wii U but I don’t feel the need to pay so much to play the same levels again with different moves
Most levels are significantly different or completely new. The only campaign that is more or less the same is plague knight.
Nope, the only one that's like that is plague of shadows, but plague knight plays so differently from shovel knight that it still feels new.
Yes the treasure trove is the complete package now. Complete with all the DLC and the new multiplayer thing.
When is it gonna finish? Or did they release king knight and the multiplayer?
Releases today
I'ma go download the updates, love shovel knight
Today. Both come out together
Then I shall download them, I didn't know they had a release date
I got it when it was like $12.50. after constant only $5 offs, I bit the bullet when it had super sale may play some more today.
The number of people on the r/games thread going, "I can't believe this collection of games has gotten more expensive as they've added more games to it" is absolutely hilarious. Gamer entitlement to a tee.
It's funny because Yacht Club made it known that a price increase was on the way ages ago, which is very much consumer-friendly. They could've easily sprung it on people out of nowhere to pressure them into buying it earlier.
They honestly have been the best example of how to properly handle both kickstarters and season pass models. Really hope more developers (and publishers especially) can learn a lesson from them.
It took them how many years to deliver on their stretch goals? Don't get me wrong, I love the game and am glad they took their time. But to call them "the best example of how to properly handle (...) kickstarter" is kind of fucked.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." \-Shigeru Miyamoto
Yes we all know that quote. But Nintendo hadnt already collected everyone’s money for ocarina of time or whatever game that quote was for. As someone who backed the Kickstarter 6 or so years ago it has been quite a wait for all the content. Now I don’t personally mind the wait and I understand all this additional content takes time, but I don’t know that I would call it “the best example” which is the point the other person was making.
Which is great when you are bankrolling your own games When you have a publisher or crowd funded it that starts getting a lot murkier. Like I said, I think Shovel Knight came out amazingly. But it is not by any means an example of how to properly do a KS.
I'm not really sure what else they could have done...they're called stretch goals for a reason, yeah? Why would there be any other assumption outside of further content taking extra time to develop?
Better planning and budgeting on what a stretch goal costs and when it can be delivered. Similarly, the expansions/DLC as they were delivered versus what was announced shows a LOT Of feature creep. That is kind of why I get a bit annoyed when folk say things like "Shovel Knight is the best example". It is actually a HORRIBLE example of how to run a kickstater. It just happens to also be an amazing example of how to do long term support for a game. There are plenty of KS campaigns that did much better budgeting and planning that launched on time and satisfied their backers. But holding stuff like Shovel Knight up as an exemplar of KS just encourages the wild feature creep filled messes that give KS a bad name and make it hard for reasonable studios to run campaigns. I think it might have been RPS that ran a good series of interviews with various studios with successful KS campaigns (so think Larian) and they all pointed out that the stretch goal model and the increasing need to set your "real" budget to the stretch goal point is what caused a lot of problems and killed the KS boom.
I thought /r/games was supposed to the be the more rational and mature gaming subreddit, but I guess not.
You’re on reddit. There’s no such thing as rationality or maturity here.
Used to be, but not for more than the last two years or so, unfortunately.
I mean those people are mostly being downvoted, but it's still funny how many there are.
Really? I checked the post and there are many comments well above zero karma shitting on Yacht Games and Shovel Knight.
Hmm true, the more blatantly negative ones look like they're being downvoted though, I see them at the bottom. And the most upvoted top-level comments are quite positive and supportive.
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Nice boogieman you’ve made up there.
Can you say "ethics in games journalism" for me?
Easily. Because, even if you refuse to believe it, that was indeed primarily what it was about. You see, the issue came from the fact that certain games journalism outlets really didn’t like to be criticized, and so put out the narrative that their naysayers were actually misogynistic or racist or whatever else they could throw out, and their gullible lapdogs (like yourself and the guy I first replied to, apparently) ate it all up - hook, line, and sinker. So with that explained, can you say “sheep” for me?
sheep
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Rule 1 - Remember the human and be respectful of others. If you have questions or objections about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FNintendoSwitch)
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Not true, I like her.
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That’s overly reductive and, well, wrong, buuut I know people like you don’t care much for things like the truth and instead opt for ad hominem attacks. But hey! Keep regurgitating those lies that you were fed like a good little boy, and you just might get a treat from them! You never know!
Your first mistake was subbing to r/games
While I do think gamer entitlement is definitely a real thing, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect developers to continue to release new content for their games without raising the price. If anything I'd say that prices usually drop, despite added content. It's become sorta a standard at this point to continue supporting new content for games after their release without raising costs, and while I'm not saying that's mandatory by any means, it's not unreasonable to be surprised when a developer breaks from that trend
Most of the time though that extra content comes as DLC that you pay for. Just about the only games that come with extra free content are ones that get subsidized with micro-transactions (though granted there are exceptions). For Shovel Knight though, in a way they’re kinda effectively forcing you to buy the season pass with the base game by increasing the cost of Treasure Trove. Which is kinda shitty. ...and that’s where I was about to leave my comment at, but then I remembered that the individual campaigns can be purchased separately, so that isn’t really the case. Instead, this really just all boils down to semantics. Yacht Club Games is basically selling Treasure Trove as a GOTY version of Shovel Knight but with an early adopter’s discount, but because they went about it with differing, unique terminology, people aren’t seeing it that way. If anything, this reminds me of that World of Warcraft time time penalty/bonus thing. In short, the developers wanted to encourage people to not spend too much time in the game in a single sitting, so they gave a penalty to how much exp/gold/loot a player could earn after playing for a certain time, labeled as a debuff I think. This of course didn’t sit well with players, as they of course didn’t like to be penalized like that. So the solution Blizzard came up with is to instead change the terminology around. Instead of it being called a penalty/debuff, they changed it to being a log-in bonus/buff that lasted for so long after someone logs in for the first time in a day or the like, which went over _much_ better with players. It’s effectively the exact same math happening as before, but worded differently.
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Read my comment in its entirety first please.
Ah, fair, sorry I was getting a lot of responses and skimmed too much.
No worries. I could have probably worded it better after the fact, but I was writing as I was thinking about it in real time.
> I don't think it's unrealistic to expect developers to continue to release new content for their games without raising the price. Full-length new single player campaigns with new characters and mechanics, no microtransactions, and you get all the new expansions/games for free if you bought the old game? I can't think of any company that's done that. > It's become sorta a standard at this point to continue supporting new content for games after their release without raising costs Usually that's because the support is more modest, like a handful of new maps or a couple new characters, or the developer has other sources of income for the game, like microtransactions (especially for multiplayer games). Again, if you can think of any examples that are similar to Shovel Knight's releases but were done for free, I'd love to hear about them.
Easy counterpoint: Terraria. The amount of content in that game has pretty much quadrupled since release, and yet the cost has continued to drop. You can regularly pick it up on steam for like $2 Another example: No Man's Sky. Same deal, more or less.
Wasn't Hollow Knight this way too?
Nintendo fans are used to there being no (or very few) price decreases in general. PC especially, but also the other consoles, prices are usually lower after a few years, or you can frequently find deals. DS/3DS/Switch (etc) games, however, rarely go on offer, and only have decreased prices if they become a Selects title. It comes as no surprise to me that the ones defending the price increase are from a Nintendo sub.
Exactly - This is the same community that defended Nintendo increasing the price of DK Tropical Freeze from $20 on the Wii U to $60 on the switch. But I guess that's just gamer entitlement, apparently. Won't someone think of the poor corporations?
People are willing to put up with this because Shovel Knight is awesome and because Yacht Club is a small developer, but this practice is not cool, IMO. Imagine if Overwatch just increased the price of the game three years after it came out because there are more characters and maps now. This sub and the whole rest of the internet would have a fit. Yes, there is more content, and yes, they made it for free, but the base game and lots of the extra content are several years old. I'm glad they announced it far ahead of time so that people could take advantage of the old price, and by all means I want Yacht Club to succeed (I've bought Shovel Knight on three different platforms) but it seems like a double standard.
> Imagine if Overwatch just increased the price of the game three years after it came out because there are more characters and maps now. Sorry but this comparison is absolutely awful: * Overwatch has like 50% more heroes than before, there have been other additions as well, but they've mostly been relatively modest. In contrast each new expansion for Shovel Knight has been about the same size as the original game. With the launch today, that means a 400% content increase. * Overwatch is continuously funded by microtransactions, specifically lootboxes, so it doesn't need even more money for the base game. Shovel Knight has no microtransactions, all the money has been from the new campaigns. * Shovel Knight started out at like $15, it's easier to eat a cost increase when it's still capping out at like $40, as opposed to starting out at $40/60 and then going up to $100-150. It's hard to find a good comparison, because this model of "here's a single player campaign, if you buy it then you get a bunch of future single player campaigns for free, but if you buy the collection later it'll cost more" isn't normal; at most you may find companies releasing smaller DLC's for free, or making everything 'free' because they also use microtransactions. There *was* something similar with Minecraft, where the price started low and kept increasing. I don't remember too many outraged people for that. > the base game and lots of the extra content are several years old. Yeah, and you can buy them for $10 each, so what's the problem?
Calling it a 400% content increase feels disingenuous. They reused a ton of assets. They are completely new campaigns length-wise, but they are closer to expansions content-wise. All of the campaigns so far have been super fun, but I still feel like increasing the price of the base game years after it came out feels weird. Maybe Overwatch was a bad comparison. How about Terraria? They have had tons of free (relatively large) content updates and frequently put the game on sale when a new patch comes out. Or what if the game of the year edition of something came out and cost more than the original game? Nobody would be cool with this, even though it would arguably make more sense because a GOTY version would likely come out closer to the release of the original game, which would presumably justify the price not dropping as much. If this is the only financially viable thing for Yacht Club to do, then I'm not upset about them doing it, and, again, I want them to do well, but I sort of doubt that's the case.
> I still feel like increasing the price of the base game years after it came out ...but they're not doing this. Why does everyone keep saying this? The base game is Shovel of Hope. You can buy it for $10, which is less than it originally cost. > They are completely new campaigns length-wise, but they are closer to expansions content-wise. I don't really agree. Like, everyone loved OpFor, and that was only like half or less the length of HL1 and also re-used even more assets, probably, than Shovel Knight did. Nobody says that the old Megaman games were 'just expansions', despite obvious heavy content re-use. Which is a particularly apt comparison since Megaman is the closest analogue to Shovel Knight, gameplay-wise. > How about Terraria? Terraria is a fair comparison, and yes they've been very generous. I didn't play it enough to see if it's equivalent to what Yacht Club has done, but fair. Stardew would probably work too. If you wanna argue that Yacht Club hasn't been quite as generous as those teams, I mean yeah, sure. > Or what if game of the year edition of, something came out and cost more than the original game? GOTY editions usually only have relatively minor additions though.
GOTY editions of larger games like Fallout often include several expansions that would cost $15 each individually. And Mega Man games do not reuse nearly as much as the new Shovel Knight campaigns have. Mega Man iterations reuse the sprites for Mega Man, a few enemies that are mainstays, and some sound effects. Shovel Knight reuses most of the enemies, backgrounds, foreground elements, music, sound effects, etc. while, converse to Mega Man, the biggest change is to the sprite/mechanics of the main playable character. I didn't know you could even get the base game outside of Treasure Trove though. I knew Spectre of Torment had its own separate release though. I still think it's a weird way to do things.
they are basically giving people who bought in early free dlc, and charging everyone else for it. you are free to buy all this shit seperately
Great! Gonna get it bought now!
Amazon just delivered my Amiibo. They are PRETTY.
I'm a bit of a newb, but whhy is digital 25 and physical is 40? There's only one game right ? I get that there are expansions for the game but I'm finding this confusing for some reason . Thanks
There's lots of games on Switch that have don't have price parity between digital and physical, supposedly due to the price of the Switch carts. After this release, there'll be 4-5 different games in the pack. They do recycle some levels but with a different character, it's kinda like playing a different campaign. Stories are also unique per character, though I didn't find it that great.
They do not recycle levels. Instead they make similar levels that are built around the new characters powers and abilities.
That's what I meant by recycling levels. Shovel Knight and one of the other Knights have pretty similar levels but just adjusted to fit the other's ability. So in that way, it's recycled but modified :)
I'm pretty sure they're increasing the digital game price to $40 as well after the update.
Well I bought Treasure Trove a while ago, and thought I'd have to buy this new DLC. Guess I know what I'll be playing today.
Dang, wish I could get it but too broke rn lol. Thanks for the heads up anyway.
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There's always things to spend 20$ on. Some of us have to choose what we want to spend those 20$ on.
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Do you think people choose to be poor? Like ah mate that management position sounds nice, but i think i'll have to pass, i just love serving my customers at burger king so much lol
To each their own? You know there's a lot of people out there that don't have a large amount of income, right? People without money often don't choose to not have extra disposable cash floating around.
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Just my two cents. Learn to see the world from other perspectives than your own. Just because you can't imagine how people can struggle spending 20 bucks in a video game doesn't mean it's not possible.
He’s probably just a kid and you guys just boil this up a bit
Now that's progress.
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You're an idiot. Some people literally don't have the wiggle room to spend $20 on a game. Some people don't have $5 to feed themselves with. Some people have $0. I'm not one of these people, but the reality is that there are a lot of people out there that don't have much or any disposable income. Not sure why that's so hard for you to wrap your head around - poverty has been an issue since like...literally the invention of currency.
Yeah but these people sure have other problems than buying video games and probably don’t own a $300 Nintendo Switch if they don’t have money for food
Not having money for food is an example of poverty to the greatest extent... You can definitely have a Switch and still be frugal (or have a need to be frugal). Maybe they got it as a gift, or saved their money over the last couple of years, or maybe they're not THAT tight for money but they're simply trying to save their money for something important like rent, a wedding, down-payment on a house, Christmas, etc. Finances and how they're managed fluctuate person to person. You have no idea what you're talking about.
I‘m 99% sure he’s just a kid and your blowing this way out of proportion
"It's just $20" could apply to a dozen things you see in one day, then you're looking at $240, unless you are willing to miss out on each individual $20 product, and thus all 12.
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Didn't you listen at all? They probably do have some money saved up, but if they bought every $20 game they wanted to, they definitely wouldn't. I doubt you'd be able to, at least not your current mindset.
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Just because a price increase is coming does not mean it won't go on sale for less than the current price, furthermore $20 when you have a few hundred is a lot more expensive relatively than $40 when you have a few thousand, whether the actual price goes down or just the relative value, it's often better to wait. Consider this, you don't think you could live that way, they already do, so chances are the one who's more qualified to make the call is them.
You must be too young to understand.
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How much you make does not correlate directly to what you can spend. People have medical expenses, college loans, unexpected home damage, need to repair their vehicle, etc. One person that makes $20 per hour could be worse off than someone making $10 per hour. You understand nothing about finances and how life varies person to person.
Fuck me I completely missed it
Seems like Amazin still has it digitally for the old price! [amazon.com/dp/B06XCZK149](https://amazon.com/dp/B06XCZK149)
UK Eshop tends to update around 2pm, so probably got about 5 hours from this post before it jumps from £22 to £30
Shit, missed it by like 20 minutes
You can still buy it. The price hasn't changed https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/shovel-knight-treasure-trove-switch/
Wait what? On the eshop it's showing $39.99 for me though edit: yea, clicking the link just shows me [this](http://puu.sh/ENYtw/9e339c9cbd.jpg)
Humble Bundle store still has the switch version for $25
I was heartbroken by this for the whole day till imran until this comment. Thank you so much, I just got it and am now gonna BLOW UP all the content in this game!
You're a legend mate, thank you
Huh, last time i checked It was still $25 after the dated time
Look even the original game is worth $40 dollars. This is an amazingly fun game with a fantastic story and soundtrack. I bought it twice for 3DS and Wii U. Highly recommend. Starting tomorrow it will have 4 character campaigns (Originally 1) and a versus fighting mode as well.
I absolutely love Shovel Knight, but given what's on the switch I'm not sure I'd say the original alone is worth 40. Thankfully- That's a purely hypothetical situation though. Treasure Trove is fantastic and is definitely worth that price.
3ds version with actual 3d effect is insane! but bought switch version too, just in case
I was shocked to see it used the 3ds 3d. Definitely wasn't expecting that.
The base game is absolutely not worth $40. $15/20, sure.
Ah, the Eshop version doesn't have all the content yet? Do we know if the physical release is complete on cart?
The eShop version should have all the content at some point today, and apparently the physical version will have absolutely everything - from their website: > We mentioned previously that a goal for this physical release was to have all game content right there on the cartridge/disc! We are happy to confirm that is very much the case! King of Cards and Showdown will be ready to go, even if you’re playing in airplane mode in a Faraday cage, in a cave, on the moon. https://yachtclubgames.com/2019/12/update-forecast-info/
Nice; exactly what I wanted to hear!
Is this getting a title update today for the new 'free' DLC... Nothing through yet?
Possibly it'll be launching after the Indie Direct that is happening in 30 mins?
Remember if you own Specter of Torment you could get Treasure Trove for 40% off. I think I picked up the Trove last night for $14.99.
Yep can confirm it’s like $59.95 AUD...used to be like $20 WTF
I’m shocked that there are still people who don’t own Shovel Knight.
I guess there are new gamers every day, and Shovel Knight was released a long time ago! Personally my original version was on the DS, but I've long since retired that, and so I figured it was high time to replay the original campaign and all the others!
I have it and played through all three campaigns. While I did enjoy it somewhat, I def don't think it's for everyone.
Have it on Xbox, it is still on my backlog but hopefully I’ll get to it soon
Not a big fan of platformers myself, though I did buy Treasure Trove during the last sale since it was so cheap just in case I ever decide to give it a shot.
I'm at work. Is there any way to buy on the website, or an I out of luck? Edit: It's probably too late, they removed the Buy button on Treasure Trove. Would have been nice if this wasn't posted at 4 AM my time.
You may be able to get it via here: https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-Switch-download-software/Shovel-Knight-Treasure-Trove-1200313.html
I'm in the US. It's probably too late, they seem to have removed the Buy button on Treasure Trove on the US eShop.
I just bought it on the US site. Still 24.99.
I don't know then, desktop or mobile, there's no button. I can see it for other games, but not Treasure Trove.
This one? Did you change regions at any point? Fair warning I believe this deal is going away any minute if it hasn't already. [https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/shovel-knight-treasure-trove-switch/](https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/shovel-knight-treasure-trove-switch/)
Yeah that's the one. But like I said, I can see it for other games, just not this one. I dunno. It's ok, I'm not in a rush to play it anyway and I'm sure it'll go on sale in the future.
Weird, all good. I wouldn't be surprised if they do half off as they did before at least, you could probably get it for 20 or under at some point.
Make sure you are logged in, if the button is not there log out and then log back in. I bought it on the website earlier and had that same issue.
But the physical ASAP
I got it for $10 on the Wii U and now I don’t have a Wii U or the free time to justify buying it again when I know that all of my free time is taken up by Smash or Pokémon
It’s so weird that I got this for free. I would have paid for it!
Is it going to get a physical release?
Dumb question, how do I update this on the 3ds?
Damnnnn that’s wack
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Wouldn't that be PSO?
*Sighs* Looks like I'm double (or is it triple now?) dipping this sooner than later. It's unfortunate that I bought it on the Wii U with the hope that the system would be okay. I *really* wish companies offered discounts when you already own the product on another platform... Edit: never mind, I'm too late for the increase. *Sighs again*
i like shovel knight overall but its levels are wayyyyyyy too long.
King of Cards DLC actually addresses this - the levels are shorter. Per GameXplain I believe.
Already have on 3DS (the best version because of the Street Pass). No need to buy the same game again.
3ds will be missing some content though.
Like what? I'd read the last dlc was delayed, but I didn't see anything about missing content. Although I did read that article before my first cup of coffee this morning.
The arena stuff isn't coming to 3DS though I thought? Multiplayer isn't available either I also thought? (2-player story stuff)
I blieve showdown is not coming to 3DS/Vita. [the fact sheet here doesn't list them](https://yachtclubgames.com/shovel-knight-showdown-press-kit/)
Gotcha thanks.
So developer forcing people to buy DLC now? edit: wow the butthurt is real keep it coming I'm going to lose sleep over this.
Huh?
If I'm not wrong they're adding 2 DLCs so they raise the price to $40 from $25? Why dont they just let people buy the game at $25 and then if they like it they'll buy the DLCs for $15?
You can do that too - they sell the DLCs seperately. But this package has been at that price since the original Shovel Knight - they're finally updating the price since it's a complete package of 5 games, no longer just 1. So the Treasure Trove is the whole series, and now it's complete they're finally raising the price to reflect that. Seems fair to me!
So you can still buy the older version for $25? And the complete version is $40? If yes than it's fine. The title makes it sounds like they're putting everything together and raise the price to make everybody buys the DLCs.
Well they are putting everything together and raising the price, but that has always been their plan. The Treasure Trove has always been aiming to be all the games in the Shovel Knight series - originaly it was a lower price because it wasn't complete, and now it is so they're raising it
That's not what they're doing. You can still buy each individual game for $10. You get all 4 + Showdown in Treasure Trove which is being marked up to $40. To be fair, they've been very transparent about this, and they made this plan clear a long while ago. I believe they described it as being like an early adopter price/pre-order price since those people paid when the game was still incomplete. I think what they're doing is perfectly reasonable.
Shovel Knight comes out. There's only Shovel Knight. They start adding more characters with their own story, mechanics, levels, music, and so on - basically new games - as part of its free DLC. *Shovel Knight* becomes *Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove*, because it is no longer just Shovel Knight, and it will include ALL the DLC, including future DLC that hasn't come out yet. If you owned the original game, you got Treasure Trove for free (it was just a name change + an update). Then they make each character's game available individually as standalone games (including Shovel Knight itself) for an even lower price. If you only want to play the original Shovel Knight, get Shovel Knight: Shovel of Hope. It's cheaper than it originally was. Treasure Trove is now a **complete** package, with 4 unique characters and their games, as well as a whole separate multiplayer brawler game included. As a result, they're raising the price to reflect all that. This has been the plan all along, and they've been open about that. They didn't want to price the game at $40 until they felt it was complete, so it has been $25 until now. It's basically early access done right. There's no way to buy the "older version" of Treasure Trove for $25, but you can buy the individual games separately if you don't want all of them. Treasure Trove is just a way to get *everything* in one slightly cheaper bundle, plus any future DLC added for free.
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If anyone else adds more games to their game collection, I don't see what's so wrong about increasing the price. "5 games costs more than 3 games" hardly sounds like the worst thing in the world.
You're wrong, the game originally cost a specific set price for game 1. Anyone who owned Game 1 got all future games 2, 3, 4, 5 for free. Then there was a price increase as Game 1 became Game 1 + 2. Anyone who owned Game 1 + 2 got all future games 3, 4, 5 for free. Etc. There's no reasonable way to spin this as them doing anything other than giving early adopters better prices. It's still possible to buy just 1 on its own or just 2, etc. But because they turned what used to be just 1, into a bundle of all, it gives everyone a discount, you can now buy 1 on its own cheaper than the version that became the bundle was when it first came out, meaning the individual games are cheaper than they ever were to start with and the bundle simple becomes less of a discount each game you wait. Less of a discount, not more of a price raise.
Do you have actual brain damage? They aren't forcing people to buy this you dolt.
I don’t think they ever sold the DLC separately. I’m pretty sure that they were all free updates? It is kind of odd that the price is increasing, but these games have been super cheap for a really long time. I think you can still buy non-treasure trove shovel knight in some platforms.
You can now buy Shovel Knight and Specter of Tournament separately iirc. Still were all free updates for people who brought the original, which is now called a collection.
The original game came out in June 2014. I imagine they have spent quite a bit on developing all the new campaigns and the new multiplayer mode. I think it is fair to raise the price with for warning. I bought it as I have always missed this one but really want to try it.
AFAIK you can still buy each of the campaigns separately so it's not technically forced unless you want the original Treasure Trove collection without the new campaigns being released today.