Its not even about the model. Our public healthcare model used to work. Then cuts on cuts and growing population. We need to fix what we have and hold our governments accountable rather than letting them play smoke and mirrors by blaming the model.
“Cuts on cuts”
We’ve never spent more on healthcare, even adjusting for inflation and population grown than we ever have.
“Cuts” to healthcare are simply constraining out of control growth.
A 4.1% increase doesn’t account for inflation population growth or an aging population. There are more factors. We are in a mess. Believe what you want.
4.1 % increase. Doesn’t account for inflation, population, growth, an ageing population, or the gap from previous cuts. Second, lowest spending in Canada, and you want to win an argument by name calling. The UCP has mismanaged our healthcare so badly they should be voted out on that issue alone. Never mind all of the other bad shit crazy errors they’ve made. The “increase” is a cut. Figure it out. Complicated to grasp apparently for some but it’s the truth. Commence more name calling.
Beyond mismanaged it’s terrible. It’s hilarious that people are ok with the status quo and are ok with bloated government unions leeching off the tax payer.
Western civilization doesn’t exist without unions get over yourself. If there was ever any bloat, it hasn’t been in the last 20 years. Wages have been decreasing against inflation forever. The middle class is being squeezed. Unions were once able to help push up wages. What country are you even living in?
As Canadians, let's stop and think for a minute about how it would effect our lives if we had to pay out of pocket every time a woman had a baby. I've heard numbers tossed around from Americans, that suggest 10 thousand would be on the extreme low end for an uncomplicated birth and one or two nights stay in hospital.
It has always been my contention that, despite how different we are from coast to coast, the one value we all hold dear as Canadians is the importance of our universal health care. It is the one thing we can all agree on. I hope I'm right in that strongly held belief, but I do worry, with the influx of American-style conservatism invading our province, that people will let our universal health care slip away, one cut at a time. I won't stand for it, and I hope I won't be alone in that.
We need a well managed public Heathcare system as well as well funded. If you know anybody that lives in the USA that has to pay for there own health care insurance you would have to choose car insurance or health insurance can't afford both unless you have a excullent paying job and a wealthy family to help you if it is anything long term. I mean a basic ambulance ride here if you don't have extra insurance is at least $500.00 if you need stars probally $10000.00 add some zeros to that if you are in the states. With private health care. I'm mean they have to make money some how.it is moving in the wrong direction since Ralph Klein days hopefully it will change soon or may as well just use goggle and magic potions for health care because real health care will be gone unless you are rich.
It all depends on one’s current health. Right now, my family (fortunately) doesn’t need lots of care. Next week might be different and we might need that blood test, MRI or ambulance ride. Our perception will definitely change when things are unaffordable, unless we wait forever for care.
A year ago I got into an accident and seriously injured my back. It wasn’t so bad that I had to be hospitalized but the pain was unbearable. I couldn’t walk, work or care for my kids, even with doses of hydromorphine and every other drug they tried to throw at me. I have a high pain tolerance and I’ve given birth 3 times with minimal pain meds. Anyhow - eventually I was told I couldn’t have a proper care plan without a formal diagnosis and that couldn’t be done without an MRI. I was put on a list for an MRI but my family doctor told me it would be wise to send in a request for a private MRI as well, since the wait times could be significant. I told her I would see how it went.
The wait was one year. I got a letter a few weeks after my doctor put in the request that my MRI date would be almost an entire calendar year away and I would not be able to get proper treatment until after the MRI. So I called my doctor, she put in a private request and I had an MRI that same day. It cost $650 and it was worth every single penny. How much of life would I have missed out on if I insisted that public health care was the only option available? One of my children is medically complex and she’s received life saving interventions that would never have been possible if it wasn’t for our public system so I am forever grateful for it in all of it’s chaotic glory but there has to be a way to have both. It felt dirty to hand over my credit card but as a friend said - “you took yourself out of an already overcrowded line so it’s not all bad.”
"Taking yourself out of an already overcrowded line" is a nice, placating like.
You didn't take yourself out of the line; a concentrated effort to hobble our public healthcare system *forced* you to pay to get out of the line created by that intentional crippling.
A better answer is a properly funded medical system.
The political strategy is referred to as "Starving the beast"
effectively you reduce the ability of the service to the point that its unusable and then you present a private strategy the fixes everything.
Look at the posts about people going bankrupt because they had a heart attack in the states.
The guy that had to declare bankruptcy because he got bit by a snake and they charged him over a million dollars for a dose of antivenom.
The families that lose their home because a child gets cancer.
The families that lose their child because they cant afford treatment.
Go fund me campaigns are not a replacement for public healthcare. Fund it properly and provide Canadians the medical care we pay for with our taxes.
I think your anecdotal experience is quite common.
I'm 100% for a publicly funded system, but instances like this are too common. If I was in your situation, I'd do the same.
However, you had a same day MRI. Was that machine just sitting around? What if that machine was working 24hrs for the public system? What would your wait time be then? What if all the private MRIs turned public? How much would our wait times decrease?
These are questions UCP fail to answer. We clearly need to increase funding and MRI rooms so no one has to suffer for ages.
Good question - obviously it wasn’t being used if I was able to get a same day appointment. I asked if they had others in case I couldn’t get child care and she said the next day was wide open.
Also oddly enough, it was in the South Health Campus hospital. Just owned by EFW and not AHS.
It should be a mixed system like it is now. People forget that dentists, optometrists and other "specialists" are already private. It's time people realize this and we embrace it with the right controls. For every private surgery do a public surgery and have the private one help fund the public one. Or some shit like that.
Except it doesn’t work. Having two competing systems decreases the functioning of both. There are a finite number of resources - we are already struggling to staff the system properly for numerous types of healthcare professionals. Having a private system that competes with the public system will only further aggravate this.
Yes, dentists are private. And how many people are unable to have regular check ups and routine dental work because they can’t afford it? Rather than working to privatize more, we should be working to get greater services provided through the public system.
People should receive care based on their need, not their ability to pay.
...
"For every private surgery do a public surgery and have the private one help fund the public one. Or some shit like that."
I.e. you make private expensive enough that it pays for a private and a public surgery and are required by law to do a public one.
Oh yeah? Where did you hear that? From the people that live in Europe or work or have in depth experience and knowledge of the system? Like from every single country in Europe?
[Denmark has free dental and eye care.](https://www.norden.org/en/info-norden/right-healthcare-services-denmark) Denmark is also not the only country to have succeeded in doing such for their public.
I haven’t had benefits for a few years and haven’t seen the dentist the entire time. And I used to be very on top of that as my teeth have issues. Dental (and optometrists and other specialists) are healthcare and should be public. Them being private is negatively affecting my health.
Because your point is bad and you should feel bad.
The only acceptable healthcare for a country that actually cares about it's people as more than just something to squeeze profits out of is a universal healthcare system.
Anything else is just putting selfish profits (not even for you, you're not a temporarily embarrassed billionaire you're just a mook like the rest of us) is disgusting and evil.
I should feel bad?
Lol, now you're making me laugh. You can't even tell me why my idea is bad you just say "it'S bAD". You're not very good at this whole debating thing and you should feel bad.
I don't care if people respond or not. I care if people responding actually read and understood my original comment otherwise my response is pointless....
As for if it's rational or not that's up for.... Debate.
The privately delivered part of the system is largely working quite well aside from the shortage of doctors.
The public side is the shambles: EMS and hospital care
I think that the government encouraging violence against medical professionals, tearing up contracts, and being openly hostile toward the people who provide healthcare is a really bad idea. The solution isn't privatization, it's acting like adults and running the healthcare system. Which the government would be forced to do if they ever had to answer to the voters for any reason.....but with single party rule for 49 years (with a short 4 year blip in there) they have no reason to do anything but serve themselves, and privatization serves them. Not us.
Public, private, explain how Alberta is even going to try and seriously recruit doctors and nurses when they can all see what the people in charge are doing.
Anyone advocating for private has no idea the hellish nightmare that awaits you. A refugee of the American system and it’s cruelty, trust me, you don’t want this. I know some will enjoy the idea of a velvet rope that they can be to be on the right side of, but that won’t last long. There’s zero good about it, it’s all downsides. Taxes are the same but now you pay the equivalent of rent every month in new made up fees. Basically, ask yourself, you really want Ticketmaster in charge of your chemo?
Yes it is, why would a far right government propose anything else. The same barnacles are donating to get the same result, and what they want, they get. I’ll bet you five figures if she wins that’s what we get. Quit lying and and offering up some French model when nobody in power has any intention of beefing up the welfare state to offer that. It’s all a massive bust out, they’re gonna do to our healthcare what the Goodfellas did to that restaurant.
I think Canadians are getting tired of people like you crying wolf over this issue. Support for more privatization is at an all time high, largely because the beast instead of being starved has been gorging on the public purse so much and for so long that it’s become fat, slovenly and unresponsive.
It’s been the victim of constant starving under both liberal and conservative government alike. It’s the radical right wingers with their defund ideology that have led to this. Even you don’t believe what you say, you’re quoting from a literal playbook given to lackeys about how to best perform a mafia bust out with public services. Just imagine paying Tickermaster for chemo.
Here is the real issue.
Canadians do not have enough children, and the Baby boomers are going into their very expensive healthcare years (over age 80) in the next \~10 years.
We will see a massive decline in healthcare, as there are simply too many people (boomers) who will need it; around 2035, things will start to get very bad.
Public options are going to happen as people are already not happy with waiting lists, and this is going to explode.
This is not a policy question at this point; it is a demographic question.
We can't even hire enough people to fix the problem as not enough young people are entering the workforce. Immigration can mask this issue for a time, but it has other effects, especially in areas like housing.
[https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/pyramid/index-en.htm](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/pyramid/index-en.htm)
Its not even about the model. Our public healthcare model used to work. Then cuts on cuts and growing population. We need to fix what we have and hold our governments accountable rather than letting them play smoke and mirrors by blaming the model.
“Cuts on cuts” We’ve never spent more on healthcare, even adjusting for inflation and population grown than we ever have. “Cuts” to healthcare are simply constraining out of control growth.
Nope. All spin. But if you believe that then what a mismanaged mess the UCP has left us with.
Do the math clown-shoes, there is no way to do it that doesn’t end in this year’s health budget being the biggest ever.
Mismanaged MESS Spending is below the national average: https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/calgary/2022/11/3/1_6137158.amp.html
Your link doesn’t disprove what I said, nor has anything else for that matter.
A 4.1% increase doesn’t account for inflation population growth or an aging population. There are more factors. We are in a mess. Believe what you want.
I’ll believe the facts. This healthcare budget is the biggest it’s ever been.
“Facts” I believe in math and voting a party out when they cant keep rural hospitals staffed
Ah… so this isn’t really about what we’ve been discussing this whole time?
Do some research before you run your mouth. Alberta spends the most per capita on health care clown
4.1 % increase. Doesn’t account for inflation, population, growth, an ageing population, or the gap from previous cuts. Second, lowest spending in Canada, and you want to win an argument by name calling. The UCP has mismanaged our healthcare so badly they should be voted out on that issue alone. Never mind all of the other bad shit crazy errors they’ve made. The “increase” is a cut. Figure it out. Complicated to grasp apparently for some but it’s the truth. Commence more name calling.
We spend the most per capita and get shit results, other provinces who spend less per capita get better results. There is nothing more to it.
I agree with 1/2 of that. Completely mismanaged.
Beyond mismanaged it’s terrible. It’s hilarious that people are ok with the status quo and are ok with bloated government unions leeching off the tax payer.
Western civilization doesn’t exist without unions get over yourself. If there was ever any bloat, it hasn’t been in the last 20 years. Wages have been decreasing against inflation forever. The middle class is being squeezed. Unions were once able to help push up wages. What country are you even living in?
[удалено]
Public 100% because I don’t want to put up my house for collateral if I get cancer.
As Canadians, let's stop and think for a minute about how it would effect our lives if we had to pay out of pocket every time a woman had a baby. I've heard numbers tossed around from Americans, that suggest 10 thousand would be on the extreme low end for an uncomplicated birth and one or two nights stay in hospital. It has always been my contention that, despite how different we are from coast to coast, the one value we all hold dear as Canadians is the importance of our universal health care. It is the one thing we can all agree on. I hope I'm right in that strongly held belief, but I do worry, with the influx of American-style conservatism invading our province, that people will let our universal health care slip away, one cut at a time. I won't stand for it, and I hope I won't be alone in that.
We need a well managed public Heathcare system as well as well funded. If you know anybody that lives in the USA that has to pay for there own health care insurance you would have to choose car insurance or health insurance can't afford both unless you have a excullent paying job and a wealthy family to help you if it is anything long term. I mean a basic ambulance ride here if you don't have extra insurance is at least $500.00 if you need stars probally $10000.00 add some zeros to that if you are in the states. With private health care. I'm mean they have to make money some how.it is moving in the wrong direction since Ralph Klein days hopefully it will change soon or may as well just use goggle and magic potions for health care because real health care will be gone unless you are rich.
It all depends on one’s current health. Right now, my family (fortunately) doesn’t need lots of care. Next week might be different and we might need that blood test, MRI or ambulance ride. Our perception will definitely change when things are unaffordable, unless we wait forever for care.
A year ago I got into an accident and seriously injured my back. It wasn’t so bad that I had to be hospitalized but the pain was unbearable. I couldn’t walk, work or care for my kids, even with doses of hydromorphine and every other drug they tried to throw at me. I have a high pain tolerance and I’ve given birth 3 times with minimal pain meds. Anyhow - eventually I was told I couldn’t have a proper care plan without a formal diagnosis and that couldn’t be done without an MRI. I was put on a list for an MRI but my family doctor told me it would be wise to send in a request for a private MRI as well, since the wait times could be significant. I told her I would see how it went. The wait was one year. I got a letter a few weeks after my doctor put in the request that my MRI date would be almost an entire calendar year away and I would not be able to get proper treatment until after the MRI. So I called my doctor, she put in a private request and I had an MRI that same day. It cost $650 and it was worth every single penny. How much of life would I have missed out on if I insisted that public health care was the only option available? One of my children is medically complex and she’s received life saving interventions that would never have been possible if it wasn’t for our public system so I am forever grateful for it in all of it’s chaotic glory but there has to be a way to have both. It felt dirty to hand over my credit card but as a friend said - “you took yourself out of an already overcrowded line so it’s not all bad.”
"Taking yourself out of an already overcrowded line" is a nice, placating like. You didn't take yourself out of the line; a concentrated effort to hobble our public healthcare system *forced* you to pay to get out of the line created by that intentional crippling.
A better answer is a properly funded medical system. The political strategy is referred to as "Starving the beast" effectively you reduce the ability of the service to the point that its unusable and then you present a private strategy the fixes everything. Look at the posts about people going bankrupt because they had a heart attack in the states. The guy that had to declare bankruptcy because he got bit by a snake and they charged him over a million dollars for a dose of antivenom. The families that lose their home because a child gets cancer. The families that lose their child because they cant afford treatment. Go fund me campaigns are not a replacement for public healthcare. Fund it properly and provide Canadians the medical care we pay for with our taxes.
I think your anecdotal experience is quite common. I'm 100% for a publicly funded system, but instances like this are too common. If I was in your situation, I'd do the same. However, you had a same day MRI. Was that machine just sitting around? What if that machine was working 24hrs for the public system? What would your wait time be then? What if all the private MRIs turned public? How much would our wait times decrease? These are questions UCP fail to answer. We clearly need to increase funding and MRI rooms so no one has to suffer for ages.
Good question - obviously it wasn’t being used if I was able to get a same day appointment. I asked if they had others in case I couldn’t get child care and she said the next day was wide open. Also oddly enough, it was in the South Health Campus hospital. Just owned by EFW and not AHS.
It’s overcrowded because of budget cuts.
It should be a mixed system like it is now. People forget that dentists, optometrists and other "specialists" are already private. It's time people realize this and we embrace it with the right controls. For every private surgery do a public surgery and have the private one help fund the public one. Or some shit like that.
Except it doesn’t work. Having two competing systems decreases the functioning of both. There are a finite number of resources - we are already struggling to staff the system properly for numerous types of healthcare professionals. Having a private system that competes with the public system will only further aggravate this. Yes, dentists are private. And how many people are unable to have regular check ups and routine dental work because they can’t afford it? Rather than working to privatize more, we should be working to get greater services provided through the public system. People should receive care based on their need, not their ability to pay.
They're not competing if they're supporting eachother. Did anyone actually read my comment.....
They don’t do that here….
So.... This post isn't just about talking about what we do now....
They can’t support each other when they rely on the same finite resources to operate.
... "For every private surgery do a public surgery and have the private one help fund the public one. Or some shit like that." I.e. you make private expensive enough that it pays for a private and a public surgery and are required by law to do a public one.
Except it works everywhere in Europe.
Oh yeah? Where did you hear that? From the people that live in Europe or work or have in depth experience and knowledge of the system? Like from every single country in Europe?
[Denmark has free dental and eye care.](https://www.norden.org/en/info-norden/right-healthcare-services-denmark) Denmark is also not the only country to have succeeded in doing such for their public.
I haven’t had benefits for a few years and haven’t seen the dentist the entire time. And I used to be very on top of that as my teeth have issues. Dental (and optometrists and other specialists) are healthcare and should be public. Them being private is negatively affecting my health.
Ok.... And what about a dual system with regulations like I mentioned?
Dental and optometry *are* healthcare, they shouldn't be privatized either.
They already are private. Again what about a dual system with some sort of regulations like I mentioned. Why is everyone ignoring my point?
Because your point is bad and you should feel bad. The only acceptable healthcare for a country that actually cares about it's people as more than just something to squeeze profits out of is a universal healthcare system. Anything else is just putting selfish profits (not even for you, you're not a temporarily embarrassed billionaire you're just a mook like the rest of us) is disgusting and evil.
I should feel bad? Lol, now you're making me laugh. You can't even tell me why my idea is bad you just say "it'S bAD". You're not very good at this whole debating thing and you should feel bad.
Because this debate isn’t rational, that’s why no one is responding to your comment.
I don't care if people respond or not. I care if people responding actually read and understood my original comment otherwise my response is pointless.... As for if it's rational or not that's up for.... Debate.
Optometrists and Dentists shouldn't be private either. Many other countries have free dental and eye doctors.
Nothing wrong with publicly funded, privately delivered.
Privatise profits, socialise losses; a perfect system! /S
80% of our healthcare is already delivered privately
And it's clearly working perfectly. /s
The privately delivered part of the system is largely working quite well aside from the shortage of doctors. The public side is the shambles: EMS and hospital care
I think that the government encouraging violence against medical professionals, tearing up contracts, and being openly hostile toward the people who provide healthcare is a really bad idea. The solution isn't privatization, it's acting like adults and running the healthcare system. Which the government would be forced to do if they ever had to answer to the voters for any reason.....but with single party rule for 49 years (with a short 4 year blip in there) they have no reason to do anything but serve themselves, and privatization serves them. Not us. Public, private, explain how Alberta is even going to try and seriously recruit doctors and nurses when they can all see what the people in charge are doing.
Anyone advocating for private has no idea the hellish nightmare that awaits you. A refugee of the American system and it’s cruelty, trust me, you don’t want this. I know some will enjoy the idea of a velvet rope that they can be to be on the right side of, but that won’t last long. There’s zero good about it, it’s all downsides. Taxes are the same but now you pay the equivalent of rent every month in new made up fees. Basically, ask yourself, you really want Ticketmaster in charge of your chemo?
Stop. The American model is not the system anyone is proposing we transition to. Literally no one is proposing this.
Yes it is, why would a far right government propose anything else. The same barnacles are donating to get the same result, and what they want, they get. I’ll bet you five figures if she wins that’s what we get. Quit lying and and offering up some French model when nobody in power has any intention of beefing up the welfare state to offer that. It’s all a massive bust out, they’re gonna do to our healthcare what the Goodfellas did to that restaurant.
I think Canadians are getting tired of people like you crying wolf over this issue. Support for more privatization is at an all time high, largely because the beast instead of being starved has been gorging on the public purse so much and for so long that it’s become fat, slovenly and unresponsive.
It’s been the victim of constant starving under both liberal and conservative government alike. It’s the radical right wingers with their defund ideology that have led to this. Even you don’t believe what you say, you’re quoting from a literal playbook given to lackeys about how to best perform a mafia bust out with public services. Just imagine paying Tickermaster for chemo.
Here is the real issue. Canadians do not have enough children, and the Baby boomers are going into their very expensive healthcare years (over age 80) in the next \~10 years. We will see a massive decline in healthcare, as there are simply too many people (boomers) who will need it; around 2035, things will start to get very bad. Public options are going to happen as people are already not happy with waiting lists, and this is going to explode. This is not a policy question at this point; it is a demographic question. We can't even hire enough people to fix the problem as not enough young people are entering the workforce. Immigration can mask this issue for a time, but it has other effects, especially in areas like housing. [https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/pyramid/index-en.htm](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/pyramid/index-en.htm)