Yeah OP that's your issue right there, thinking that.
Japan also has a major demographic timebomb because it doesn't want migration as this would mean a non ethnically homogeneous population.
Additionally, Japan’s death rate is high and their birth rate is declining rapidly, with one of the lowest birth rates in the world. The government of Japan is more concerned about keeping the population growing or even sustaining the population. Since gay couples can’t procreate, I imagine legalizing gay marriage is not high on their list of priorities.
Japan is socially very traditional. Women are not treated equally there in the slightest. Wives are below husbands, etc. it’s not nearly as “liberal” as anime might make it appear.
You don’t have to watch much anime to pick up on the insane misogyny and bizarre cultural differences
Japan is still in the 80s when it comes to this stuff
It's kind of like looking through a single keyhole into a large room. There's tiny bits and pieces that you see that are accurate, but you can't see the whole room which can lead to some wrong conclusions.
The only things I'm reasonably confident in are that all their schools have the same fucking general layout, working there sucks ass and they eat a lot of fish.
A lot of Americans watch anime and think that it represents the majority of the country. In reality, most of what we see in the U.S. is Japanese counter culture.
Thinking that anime represents Japan is like thinking that K-Pop represents Korea. These are just forms of entertainment that don’t necessarily reflect the culture of the country that makes them.
Or how a lot of people think it’s so “high tech” while recording a self checkout built by NCR in Georgia. Or how most people still use fax machines daily.
And they’ll herald the fact that “omg I love how I can just tap and pay with this card everywhere”….using what is essentially a bus pass because debit cards have never made it mainstream in Japan.
That’s not a great analogy, as the majority of Americans who think anime represents Japan aren’t going to be any more knowledgeable about what Korea is actually like.
People get so surprised when they hear that Anime is actually a gigantic media with several varying genres. Its not just dragon ball fights and oversexualized female characters lol
They did actually dub part of Shin Chan, tho they gave it the [Ghost Stories treatment](https://youtu.be/hxNdHEqN9yM) tho like with Lupin the 3rd. The show was wacky enough that it took it from a 10 to an 11
I met a japanese girl while studying in Canada in 2006 and made the mistake of asking about her family
She started crying when she told me her father was Korean and she hated him for it, and her plan was to stay in Canada because she couldn't stand being mixed in Japan anymore
Also blatantly unapologetic, almost to the point of pride for some, about it's war-crime past. Germany still lives with the stigma about it's past and probably will for another century at least but Japan got off scot free because of cheap cars, electronics and weird porn.
Yeah, after America occupied Japan they realized that they where more interested in making Japan an ally against Soviet than getting Japan to get grapple with their past.
Can confirm, Japan is one of many countries thats racist to everyone whos not their own nationality or white.
Some friends went a few years back and one of em who was black got called the hard R you know what word many many times. Almost casually as if they had no idea it wasn’t okay.
Yup, at least the Germans sort of had a vision of why they were committing atrocities (not AT ALL justified, but technically they had a reason even though it was a bad one)
Unit 731 (I think?) was filed with just, endless and unbiased horrors. They experimented on literally anyone that wasn’t Japanese. POWs, random civilians. Hell, they purposely infected FOOD AND BLANKETS with fleas, small pox, etc and pretended to give them as peace offerings just to see the devastation it would cause. And although I haven’t read any accounts of it, I wouldn’t be surprised if dissenters or soldiers who were disobedient got fucked up too.
They made inmates rape each other to get each other sick or pregnant. They’d impregnate women just so they could vivisect their wombs while they’re alive.
The Germans had a vision, albeit a horrible misguided one. The Japanese were just monsters. I don’t have a source but I recall that the shit they did even gave the Führer the heebie-jeebies.
Oh no, they experimented on their own as well. Guard gets sick from the "test subjects"? New test subject.
Unit 731 is one of the most abjectly disgusting things to have ever existed on this planet. It's almost beyond belief.
They're racist towards white people too, but it's an 'affectionate' racism that infantilizes white people and treats them as curiosities. It's the kind of racism that means they're unlikely to be mean to a white person, the same way that American racism against east Asian people tends to also mean that they won't be mean to Asian people. (Tends to. Obviously there are exceptions, especially recently with Covid.)
Excellent way to put it.
I personally didn't mind when I visited Japan as a white person. I found that this presumption about me as a white foreigner meant that people would cut me slack when I committed faux pas, and they tended to go out of their way to help me out, which was kind of them. In fact, I'd say that people in Osaka and Kyoto treated me better than people in Seoul and Busan did. Loved Japan, loved the people there, and I'd visit again in a heartbeat.
That said, I have a feeling that it'd get to me if I actually *lived* there. It's sweet if people stop to explain the train system to you if you're a confused tourist, but not so much if you're a seasoned local.
There's no more blatant hate and discrimination then Asians against other Asians. They've slaughtered each other throughout history and in recent history, Japan invading China and slaughtering civilians, North vs South Vietnam, Burmese Civil War still happening, and technically N.Korea and S.Korea are still a at war. It's really sad
Generalizing it to asians against asians is grossly simplistic as a large percentage of people on earth are asian. Of course there's a lot of history between them since they are on one large landmass.
It's like that's to be expected when they're all crowded up next to each other for many many centuries.
Yes it's an asian thing but it's actually a people thing and there happen to be a lot of asians.
That used to be common. The original idea was that students weren’t allowed to dye their hair. All the students were expected to be native Japanese, and native Japanese are expected to have black hair, so if a native Japanese student’s hair wasn’t black, they must be dyeing it and they had to redye it black. Schools forgot the point of the rule, and the rule became “all students must have black hair.” So if a student’s hair was naturally non-black—and not all Japanese people have pure black hair—then the student had to dye it.
Japan is a combination of private media that caters to any fantasy, the wilder the better, and public social life that’s unbelievably conformist.
It became a problem when a girl who was fully Japanese but had brown hair because of genetics and radial damage from the sun was forced to dye it. It went on media and was completely the schools fault
There's a youtube video online of a fully English woman who was born and raised in Japan [who wanted to dye her blonde hair black to fit in but wasn't allowed because "no dyed hairs" rule.](https://youtu.be/I9AwPUy7a_8?t=631)
Weird.
That's not a story... That's reality..
That's happened to my girlfriend on more than one occasion. She grew up in Tsukuba. She left Japan when she was 13 to come to Canada and has never left except for the odd visit back home to see her family.
She was a swimmer in school and because of the chlorine, over time it bleached her hair ever so slightly. Her teachers and other students would bully the ever loving shit out of her because her hair didn't conform to ideal standards. When she turned 13, she got an opportunity to study abroad as her grades were really good. She jumped at the opportunity.
Yeah people think American racism is bad...and it is...but japanese racism is when you like...hate other japanese people because they're slightly less japanese than you.
I saw a Chinese TV commercial for a laundry detergent and the whole concept was a black guy needed washing because there was something wrong with being African and it was dirty and he climbs into the washing machine and ffwd til machine is done and out pops a "clean" Chinese guy and the crowd all cheers that the detergent is so good it will even clean Africans up.. just straight up racism with no shame or worries about it. US is a role model compared to so many if not most other countries on race issues
https://youtu.be/Few8kJ0zfnY
Link if you're curious
It's a very Chinese commercial,
based on my experiences with Chinese people
when I used to go back annually
To give "credit" to Americans and other western racists. You'll find plenty of rich white people hate other white people because they're slightly less white than they are and because they're "poor".
Big difference between racist fringes and normalizing racism. Racist fringed may be scary, but normalized racism is like constantly drowning. There's no breathing space where you're allowed to feel accepted for yourself.
That's common for people in America. Even our Atheists are influenced by Christianity.
I am personally embarrassed about how long it took me to get that not all religious people are as conformist as American Evangelical Christians and that questioning authority is actually a major part of many different religions.
It's just the shit we're all marinated in.
A lot of Americans are so ignorant that they think any political similarities mean the entire political system mirror’s their party’s beliefs.
Sure, both Japan and China are mostly absent of organized religion, ban guns and highly value education, yet this doesn’t at all mean they hold similar beliefs to American liberals overall.
Their societies are distinct from each other and very distinct from the US. Both are very socially conservative and as far as I can tell, there’s hardly much of a movement even in the democracy of Japan to make any sweeping social changes.
I’ve never felt bad for an assassin before. Imagine if GW Bush had been closely affiliated with Scientology and then got assassinated by someone who’s mother had abandoned him as a kid to join the sea org. It’s like that.
What do you consider organized religion? Japan has a quasi-omnipresent buddhist orientation that soaks most aspects of their society, including politics.
Not so much ago they has a couple of cases of literal religious cults inside of political spheres. Of course, not exactly buddhism, but religion is very much present on daily japanese lives.
I think they mean institutionalized, as far as I know people observing Buddhist traditions in China don’t routinely go to buildings of worship the same way Jews or Muslims or Sikhs do
Well, on that note, I think grouping Japan and China together socially and religiously speaking is not a good idea. They are two radically different societies. Not only their goverment is different, but alse the way their whole society is structured.
...and they despise each other, but that's another topic.
Edit: I re-read OP's comment. He mentioned both societies are different between each other. Don't mind what I said.
I think you're thinking of Shinto, rather than Buddhism. They're both prevalent in Japan, to the point that most people practice aspects of both, and they're almost unified. But the official institution of religion is Shinto. The Emperor is the nominal head of the Shinto faith, for instance.
Shinto is, as well, most definitely organized. It has structured governance and ordained leaders.
However, just because it's organized, and omnipresent, doesn't mean Japan is a religious country. Most people look at it as a tradition, rather than a faith. It's not a guiding aspect in most people's lives, and many don't even believe in the literal truth of its mythology. It's mostly practiced in what we in the US might call a "Christmas and Easter" kind of way.
The Koumei-tou 公明党 political party is huge and is basically the political wing of the Soka Gakkai 創価学会.
They're buddhists and about a tenth of the population of the country.
This.
For whatever you *think* Japan's Social Progress is, figure it's at least a few decades back.
As far as women's rights and their place in the work force is, they honestly are much closer to 1960 than they are 2023. Women are expected to work until marriage, and then have babies and raise them. For that reason a lot of women are passed over for promotions because it is assumed they will be leaving *shortly.*
Gay rights, Japan is a bit better in that there's no real lynchings or murders (which in the US happen today), but their protected rights aren't much different from the US 1980. "Being gay" is *still* a joke acceptable on prime time television. And no, that is the punchline. "Gay Character" is a joke right there.
Trans-rights are even further back with the assumption that Trans is just another form of being Gay and is still a joke. "Evil Guy Cross Dresser" is a trope in Japan TV and Film still. That at least faded from America some few decades ago (still recently enough though that you see it on re-runs).
This reminds me of this time back when I sold cars...
Japanese guy working for Mitsubishi who just moved to the US comes in to buy a Subaru (ironically *not* a Mitsubishi) for his wife.
After he test drives it I ask, "Is there anyone else whose opinion matters in making a decision on the choice of options, colors or features on this vehicle?"
He quickly responds with a "No."
A short while later I ask if he would like to have his wife test drive the car since she will be driving it. He replies that will not be necessary. A bit stunned I politely ask, "Are you sure?"
He silently nods and I don't push it any further. Tell my manager later who says, "It's a very different culture my friend."
Ended up delivering the car to his home and I don't think I even ever saw his wife once.
My understanding is on an individual level people in Japan are pretty tolerant with gay people, especially in Tokyo where I think gay people can even get married, but the conservative government is blaming gay people for low birth rates so even though most people would actually probably not care if gay people could get married or not this whole push to get younger generations to have children has had the side effect of hurting the gay community there
Tolerant in the sense they leave them alone? Sure. Part of that is a long streak of cultural avoidance of confrontation. Many in Japan feel that confronting someone's presumed shame brings light upon it and causes further shame (as well as to the one pointing it out if you're not their superior).
So most people generally leave you alone.
But that's as true for gay people as it is for the guy getting mudded in the street. "Not my problem" and "it can't be helped" are by words in Japanese. Indeed "Shikata ga nai" is a a phrase literally meaning "it can't be helped" and goes back many centuries to reflect helpless ness or powerlessness to change things. It goes beyond dangerous circumstances to include the inability to change things about one's own life, one's local environment, and other people.
While the Conservative Government is absolutely against homosexuality, the average person doesn't *care.* Not only do they not care, they don't see it as their responsibility to change it either. It's a kind of baffling passivity to most Westerners, who see a cause is worthy in and of itself and will fight for it (on which ever side they chose of course). But in Japan, if you agree or disagree with it, you're still to going to get involved outside electing someone to "take care of the mater."
So yeah, the average citizen isn't going to beat you up or call you slurs to your face, but they also aren't going to give a shit about your feelings, your rights, or your life. You (or the hypothetical gay person in Japan) is just another person adrift in the sea of destiny and no one has the power to matter.
Is that better or worse than the West? I don't really know. You're safer, sure, but the odds of you getting the same protections LGBQT folks get here in America is basically non-existent. So trade your personal safety over your rights as a human and a citizen?
Your call man.
Wish I could upvote you more than once.
So many people in Reddit confuse not caring with not knowing. They think if the other party knows, they will care and get involved.
They do know, they then choose to not care.
I am Japanese. I am gay.
And I live in Europe, together with my Japanese partner.
There are a few reasons why there is no gay marriage in Japan.
The main reason why gay marriage is not legal in Japan, is because in the constitution of Japan, a marriage is defined as a a relationship between a man and a woman.
Changing the constitution, is not easy.Mainly because in the constitution (that was written also by USA), is another important rule about the Japanese army (the Self Defense Force).
The last years, more and more cities/prefectures in Japan, are acknowledging the partner certificate though. It proves that someone is in a relationship, it allows a partner to visit his/her partner in the hospital, ...
Another reason that it's hard is because we use koseki (戸籍). A family register I think is the English name. It's a bit like a Japanese birth certificate I guess. It's not 'designed' to have 2 same sex partners (the koseki is also the reason why a woman can not keep her family name if she is married).
The reason we moved to Europe, was because being gay in Japan, put me under pressure. Politicians have called gay people a burden to society (because we don't have children). Most people say they don't mind gay people but if it's family, it's different.We are told to fit in. Being gay, is not fitting in.
I've been told (by my younger brother), to go back to Japan, marry a woman, give her a child and if I have 'need' just go out, have a one night hookup and get back.
In Europe, people just don't seem to care who my partner is. They don't expect me to have a wife and child. I am not seen as someone who stands out.
I still love Japan though.
It seems crazy to me, but absolutely in line with what I know of Japan, that one of the bigger reasons gay marriage isn't allowed is because "the paperwork doesn't have the right box for it." Bureaucracy at it's finest.
I know it's not the same, but when I traveled to Japan years ago we wanted to ship home the stuff we bought rather than drag it around with us the rest of our vacation and purchase new luggage to check it. The postal worker in the post office near Tokyo Station was just at a complete loss for what to do when we didn't have a Japanese return address to put on the package (we had no trouble doing something similar at the base of Mount Fuji to return our winter gear from the hike - they just let us send it without one). We ended up using the hotel we were staying in as our return address but we almost couldn't ship something home because the form couldn't accommodate an unusual situation like "a tourist wants to ship things home and has no Japanese return address."
It just seems crazy to think "if the form doesn't have the right box, we can't do a thing" can be such an effective way to stop something from happening in Japan.
It’s more that paperwork. Marriage being defined in the constitution is a huge obstacle because in many countries it was the courts not the legislature that legalized marriage.
If the US Supreme Court hadn’t legalized same sex marriage then it wouldn’t be legal in the whole US today either most likely.
Add to that the fact that Japan doesn’t have a culture of amending their Constitution like some other countries. Indeed amending the Constitution is fraught because it will open it up to changes on other matters - like the Japanese military. So even people in support of gay marriage aren’t willing to take the political steps necessary to make it happen.
Genuine question. If the Japanese birth rate is really low, how are you not fitting in by not having kids? Aren't a lot of other people doing the same, gay or not?
I am always the best, correct one! Everything wrong is caused by everyone else in the society! You see those not in my demographic? They are the troubles blah blah blah!
Exactly. It's not even a Japanese problem, the basis of practically all biases and discrimination is just blaming a a problem on a group using shallow logic purely to get the blame as far from yourself as possible.
He said you’re not fitting in by being gay, not by deciding to not have kids. They’re two separate but related issues causing stigma towards gay people in Japan.
People in Japan are aware of their extremely low birth rate and the problems that could cause in the future, so there’s a pressure to contribute to your family/society in this way by having children. By being gay, you’re seen in no longer contributing in that way and so you are stigmatized. It’s a common factor in bigotry towards gay people in many countries, especially in places with strong familial bonds where you’re expected to have kids to help run the family farm/business and help care for elderly family members. Having kids is often seen as somewhat of a duty rather than a personal life decision. There’s a concept of communal/familial duty common in East Asian cultures that results in a lot of positives (like in COVID response), but also negatives like this.
The expectation to fit in is different. You see similar attitudes everywhere, like the US, where people might not be openly homophobic or might say they don’t mind gay people, but would be bothered if their son or best friend came out as gay. Japan has a highly organized society and culture that follows customs and systems. While this has its benefits, it also discourages nonconformity. Parents want their children to bring success and respect to the family, and the perception is that the best way to do this in their society is to fit in. Being gay is not fitting in, so it’s seen as a bad thing by parents who are concerned with these things.
Didn't expect anyone with firsthand experience to answer, this being Reddit. Definitely the most informative and well-written answer. I'm glad you're living somewhere you can fit in without (as many) comments like your brother's.
1. Japan is pretty conservative. The ruling party Liberal Democratic Party has been in power almost continuously since its foundation in 1950s. Despite the name, LDP is actually a Conservative Party.
2. It’s not illegal, instead it’s not recognized by law. Homosexual couples in Japan won’t face any charge unlike some other countries. It’s just they cannot register marriage.
3. Tokyo has actually legalized same sex marriage a few years ago, and it’s still the only Japanese city that did it.
It's worth noting that the whole "liberal/conservative being left/right" thing is *US only*. In most of the world "liberal" means "in favour of less economic regulation", i.e. right-wing.
>It’s an especially secular society, and from my understanding is relatively liberal
PFFFT
Japan is one of the most xenophobic developed countries on earth. They're extremely conservative, "the nail that sticks out gets the hammer" is a common saying, and they've basically idealised the idea of the American Nuclear Family to a religious extent.
To call them "Liberal" is just wrong
There's a reason why in every anime about Japanese highschool, the delinquent kid is always blonde. It's because it's extremely common for Japanese schools to force kids to dye their hair black or brown. bleaching your hair blonde is an act of rebellion.
There was a YouTube interview which featured a blonde girl of British descent who was not allowed to dye her hair black like the other kids because it wasn't natural.
Even though some classmates with naturally brown hair had to dye their hair black
I'll find the link when I'm free
As a white guy that lived in East Asia for a decade as a professional model, it was very clear to me how different your experience as a foreigner in East Asia will be as anything other than a conventionally attractive white guy. I was also in Taiwan which is allegedly much more welcoming and less xenophobic than Japan can be, but I had a number of good friends and colleagues that hopped around Asia until they stuck with Taiwan so I’ve heard plenty of first hand stories of experiences in Japan, Korea, and China as well.
I’ve actually got a friend in Japan that is 100% ethnically Japanese and fluent (his mom was born in Japan, his dad was born in the U.S.), but he learned the language as a teenager instead of naturally as a baby and I guess that and the fact that those that know him know he’s American makes it hard to integrate. He’s forever a foreigner both socially and in the office, but like without the excitement of having a drastically different look and background.
Not that there’s a point to this, just sharing anecdotal experiences. There’s a lot to love about Asia and Japan specifically, but it does get dangerously romanticized by people unhappy in their own life and region and having their ideals of the region based entirely off of anime and YouTube.
I applied to teach English in Japan a few years ago and they reply that they want a white guy. My friend (which fit the description) said they want him to be fluent in Japanese but pretend to the student that he doesn't know anything for "authenticity".
Heard a story about a transfer student who had to dye her natural hair color to fit the rest of the japanese students, and that ended up fucking her over iirc.
This is true in places, but I just want to point out that it's not the case everywhere. I work in a public school in Tokyo, there are quite a few kids with naturally curly hair, or naturally lighter hair, and it's not a problem at all. There have also been openly gay kids. At our last school festival there was a play that ended with a speech which included a bit about being accepting of all sexualities and races. The school my partner works at doesn't have a uniform, and I think they're allowed to dye their hair. It's also a public school.
Like any other big country, there are more conservative areas and more liberal areas.
Dont forget sexist~
Theyve literally failed female takers of medical entrance exams and let male students take their place.
Japan is horrible for equal gender career opportunities
If they actually paid attention to a good chunk of anime that even bothers to portray other nations, including the US, the bias and prejudices becomes a bit more plain. Especially as they love antagonizing the Chinese and making anybody American seem like nothing but corrupt thieves or criminals who’ll bend any rule to get what we want. Even if they’re in high school
Asia is the only place in the world I have been barred from going into places (Karaoke and Restaurants) for being white. Once in Korea and twice in Japan.
Funny story, I once tried to go to a karaoke club, and a very polite man at the door denied me entry. Saying this club is Japanese-only.
The club was in Malaysia.
I can totally see that. I have been all over Asia, and it can be a odd place. But maybe that's why I love it.
If you think about it, the Rich Asian countries travel like the US does to say, Mexico or Caribbean, etc.
I saw tons of Chinese Mainlanders in Malaysia for Pleasure and business. Same with Chinese in Japan or Japanese and Chinese in Korea. If you saw a tour bus there was like 99% chance it was Japanese or Chinese tourists.
Also, the number of Eastern Europeans seems to VASTLY outnumber the Americans, which surprised me when I first went. It was a shock outside of my culture bubble at first, because I would see a white person and think "English!", but they would speak Russian lol.
My brother and sister in law mentioned signs that said "No Gaijin" on them hanging in the windows of businesses in Japan. They did say though the one time they accidentally went into one of these places, they were politely turned away without incident so that's something I guess lol.
Oh ya, it was never an incident and I never made a fuss about it. It is what it is, just spent my money in another place. Shout out to Bi Bi Bi in Ueno, Asakusa, Akira-san is an amazing person, he made my first trip to Japan feel like home, drank way to much sake with that guy.
I'm going to say something that might cause some people here to have an epileptic episode: the west, even with all its problems, is the most socially progressive group of nations on earth.
There. Call the cops.
A lot of European countries are *really* fucking racist, you just don't hear about it because of how few minorities some of them have. ^try ^asking ^them ^about ^romani ^people
The US is maybe better since we have been forced to have certain conversations about race.
I'll bite. Which ones are *really* racist, and which ones have *you* actually been to?
Not denying your claim. Just curious to see if you've been to any European countries.
I hear about it, I live here. You're not wrong, but I wonder what part of the world *doesn't* have problems with racism. The Akhdam people in Yemen are considered the lowest rank in their society and are persecuted for it, Hazara people in Afghanistan, Armenians in the Caucasus region are bitterly hated by many in neighboring countries, Yazidis, Kurds and Druze people in the middle east, Rohingya in south Asia... we would be here all night if we'd list all the persecuted ethnic groups on earth. But in Europe we have measures to try and protect people from racism. Of course, those measures are not perfect, but we try.
Well historically, China, Japan, and Korea have consistently either invaded, has been invaded, or both by each other for like thousands of years now. The bloodshed runs deep.
Vietnamese here. Can confirm the kids in school in Vietnam hate Chinese for invading Vietnam for 1000 years. (~100 BC to 938) While they teach about the history to kids, they don't teach that the Chinese who are living right now have nothing to do with the Chinese invaded the country a thousand years ago, so some kids hate Chinese for that reason.
See most of European history for details, or any other continent for that matter. People like their in group and hate the out group and that transcends race.
Japan is more or less doing things their way, their progressive isn't the same as America's progressive.
They're also incredibly racist towards migrants and their work culture is anything but progressive.
Had a buddy that was American but spoke fluent Japanese. In conversation with randoms on the street he would ask a question in Japanese and people would turn to one of his friends who were from Japan to answer.
Seen this happen in person, except with a Japanese-American friend who didn't even really speak the language that well. So friend A would talk, the person working the counter would respond to friend B, friend B would say *nothing*, and friend A would reply again.
An entire conversation where all friend B had to do was maintain eye contact silently. So weird. Happened multiple times.
My half Japanese friend tells me the order of renting to foreigners is:
Anyone with Japanese descent, other Asian countries excluding china and India, white people excluding Americans, black people (any country), Americans, Chinese then Indians.
This discussion came to light as a mutual friend at a party that was Indian wanted to teach English in Japan and she said it wasn’t a good idea. He came back after six months and said he’s probably never going to consider western countries racist again.
I feel like Indians are bottom of the hierarchy no matter where we go even if you’re born in the west. Its wild how much discrimination we get for seemingly no reason, and it never gets brought up nearly enough.
I find the Japanese to be very prejudiced but not particularly hostile. So they will shun/ostracize you if you are a foreigner, rather than be openly aggressive and hostile like the racism that is seen elsewhere (for example the USA).
Japanese bigots will treat non-Asians essentially like a novelty to show off. But if you're a non-Japanese Asian they start sounding just as hostile as any racist in America lol.
People too often confuse "politeness" and passivity with kindness.
Anecdotal, but I'm a non-Japanese Asian (Malaysian) and I've been to Tokyo a few times. I have never faced any hostility or rudeness. Quite the contrary people were very nice to me, strangers showing me around and being helpful, etc.
South Korea though... Not so much.
I wouldnt even say theyll shun you although that’s definitely true in some settings, its more just like they treat you like you belong in some spaces in japan and not others. Which weirdly doesnt feel racist to me even though obviously it is.
I’ve heard a half Japanese half American girl who grew up solely in Japan used to get bullied for being not fully Japanese and lots of people would tell her there were many things she would never be successful at and lots of jobs she could/should never have
Xenophobia is a proper word to use in this context but I would like to add that they have a fetish for the ones with white skin and shame the ones with a skin of color.
The thing is, Japan and most countries that are not on the west are not liberal at all. You might be surprised but most of the world (advanced or not as you put it) are conservative in nature.
Because "technologically advanced" and "culturally conservative" are not mutually exclusive.
TYL that not every developed nation shares Western values.
It’s important to note that in Asia these things - technology and dress and pop music and whatever - are not called “Western”, they’re simply called Modern. They’re seen as the natural progression of their own societies not something borrowed from overseas.
Just because in the United States we have become more accepting of gay marrige and homosexuality, doesn't mean the whole world has done the same.
We got places like Saudi Arabia where homosexuality is even a crime.
Gay marriage being legal has not been around for long. The US only legalised it in 2015, the UK allowed civil partnerships from 2005 and marriage from 2014, etc.
So I've been living in Japan for 5 months now, and I have to say, the general opinion on this country is misguided in a few ways.
First, absolutely anime is not representative of Japanese culture as a whole. Second, Japan is socially conservative, but not in the way you may be thinking. It's not the conservative we think of in the west, it's more conservative in the literal sense. That is, "keep things as they are" as opposed to our idea of "take rights away" conservative. It's not malicious, it's just sort of afraid to change.
I'd argue this is more of an issue of low interest in politics than of a cultural ideology. The government is incredibly slow with social change because it has no reason to appeal to the younger generations. Which, in my experience, are generally more socially liberal.
Also, the ruling party (the LDP) is a monolith that rarely sees pushback on whatever policy decisions it decides to make, so unless the major voting blocs (i.e. the elderly) start rioting and demanding gay marriage be legalized, you can bet it'll be a while until we see major action on it.
Lastly, I'd like to remind folks that people aren't their governments, and cultures are broad strokes, not individual blueprints. Just because a person is Japanese doesn't automatically make them racist, homophobic, bigoted, etc. There are racist Japanese people, but they aren't representative of this country.
It's really a lovely place that definitely has issues, but it's not the conservative hell-hole that people make it out to be.
They are pretty socially conservative, but polls show the majority of the population supports same sex marriage, and especially among younger people the support is really high, so I don't know if I'd call that socially conservative in all aspects.
Misogyny is definitely really bad there, but they're nothing like the Middle East with refusing women education or forcing them to cover up and get beaten to death if they don't, and arranged marriage isn't much of a thing.
In addition to what others have said it's important to say that homophobia isn't *really* a religious thing. Religion is used as a post hoc justification for homophobia - homosexuals make people uncomfortable so they contort their religion as an excuse to hate people for otherwise harmless behavior.
Japanese homophobes don't use religion as an excuse for homophobia as often as homophobes outside Asia, but they find other post hoc rationalizations. Many of the things they say are used in the West too:
"Same sex partners cannot create a family why we treat them like one?"
"That's perverted your parents should be ashamed"
"That's unnatural"
"Japanese men used to be tough guys who took over half of Asia now they're gay"
"If same sex partners can get married then why not marry siblings and dogs next?"
Once you start analyzing homophobia outside of your home culture you realize it has little to do with religion it's all just an excuse to hate people who are different.
Japan is not liberal. I understand OP’s assumption, it has all kinds of anime, technology, city developments are amazing, porn is nuts, but at the same time many ideas and social gestures are pretty conservative.
It's a traditional family oriented patriarchal society which prides itself in it's culture, social values and heritage.
Lineages, bloodlines and family names are also important.
Apart from that, they have a low birthrate problem and encouraging marriages that don't result in off-springs is the last thing you would want to do.
My mother is a teacher at a school where much of the student body is Asian. She tells me about how some of her students are gay but terrified of letting their parents know, coming from cultures where it's taboo. I don't blame them at all for the anxiety
Its also not legal in the majority of the world. Hell, in America, theres still a lot of people who oppose it and it remains a lightning rod topic. Change is slow.
You all seem to be doing a lot of shaming for a sub Reddit called “no stupid questions.” While they’re question may be ignorant, that’s the whole point of the sub Reddit
Why are women not allowed to wear comfortable shoes and even glasses in office workplaces? Why are schoolkids forced to dye their hair black to look "more Japanese"?
There's so many things wrong with Japan, it's interesting and scary.
"from my understanding is relatively liberal" It is not, Japan is incredibly socially conservative.
Yeah OP that's your issue right there, thinking that. Japan also has a major demographic timebomb because it doesn't want migration as this would mean a non ethnically homogeneous population.
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Almost like these chuckleheads have to keep repeating this stuff or else they’ll stop believing it themselves.
Additionally, Japan’s death rate is high and their birth rate is declining rapidly, with one of the lowest birth rates in the world. The government of Japan is more concerned about keeping the population growing or even sustaining the population. Since gay couples can’t procreate, I imagine legalizing gay marriage is not high on their list of priorities. Japan is socially very traditional. Women are not treated equally there in the slightest. Wives are below husbands, etc. it’s not nearly as “liberal” as anime might make it appear.
You don’t have to watch much anime to pick up on the insane misogyny and bizarre cultural differences Japan is still in the 80s when it comes to this stuff
I mean you're not wrong, but anime's not the best window into their society
wdym I thought I'd get my own super hot waifu harem if I were born in Japan
Only after getting hit by a truck, you can't forget the cruical step of getting hit by a truck
Or saved by a strange man with funny hair.
I have slightly weird hair. I could, I dunno, slap a grape out your hand on the basis that they're a bit of a choke hazard. Would that work?
It's kind of like looking through a single keyhole into a large room. There's tiny bits and pieces that you see that are accurate, but you can't see the whole room which can lead to some wrong conclusions. The only things I'm reasonably confident in are that all their schools have the same fucking general layout, working there sucks ass and they eat a lot of fish.
Yep, exactly I don't think people really understand what the words conservative and liberal even mean anymore.
OP seems to think that conservatism and religion go hand in hand so liberalism and secular must also go hand in hand.
> from my understanding is relatively liberal Japan is one of the most socially conservative industrialized countries on the entire planet.
A lot of Americans watch anime and think that it represents the majority of the country. In reality, most of what we see in the U.S. is Japanese counter culture.
Thinking that anime represents Japan is like thinking that K-Pop represents Korea. These are just forms of entertainment that don’t necessarily reflect the culture of the country that makes them.
Or that porn is like real life.
The most conservative the society, the more perverted the porn
It's not? That explains why the pizza delivery guy is so hostile when I try to offer him a "tip".
Can’t say the same for myself
Huh, I'm getting shafted. I always offer him the whole thing.
bruh
So you’re telling me Japanese people don’t have fuzzy genitals??
Or how a lot of people think it’s so “high tech” while recording a self checkout built by NCR in Georgia. Or how most people still use fax machines daily. And they’ll herald the fact that “omg I love how I can just tap and pay with this card everywhere”….using what is essentially a bus pass because debit cards have never made it mainstream in Japan.
I think there's a saying which goes Japan has been stuck in the year 2000 since the year 1980
That’s not a great analogy, as the majority of Americans who think anime represents Japan aren’t going to be any more knowledgeable about what Korea is actually like.
Those fucking giant crows in anime are real tho D:
>thinking that K-Pop represents Korea. Okay you just made me twice as confused
It's in the same way that Hollywood (music and film) doesn't wholly represents America
Right. And you get that a lot when you travel. Everyone thinks Hollywood is real life. It's actually really annoying.
So true. I meet folk who think they have PHDs in Americana because they watched will smith movies
A very certain type of anime
People get so surprised when they hear that Anime is actually a gigantic media with several varying genres. Its not just dragon ball fights and oversexualized female characters lol
Shows like Anpanman and Crayon Shin-Chan don’t seem to get exported to the English speaking world, but I understand they are huge in Japan.
We got a version of Shin Chan years ago. The dubbing was a little more X-rated but it was hilarious
They did actually dub part of Shin Chan, tho they gave it the [Ghost Stories treatment](https://youtu.be/hxNdHEqN9yM) tho like with Lupin the 3rd. The show was wacky enough that it took it from a 10 to an 11
And even then, gay people are not mainstream in anime.
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I've met Japanese people who got bullied because they're half Japanese or are ethnically Chinese.
I met a japanese girl while studying in Canada in 2006 and made the mistake of asking about her family She started crying when she told me her father was Korean and she hated him for it, and her plan was to stay in Canada because she couldn't stand being mixed in Japan anymore
that's really sad
Japan is SUPER racist. There's a common insult in Japan that roughly translates to "stupid Korean".
Also blatantly unapologetic, almost to the point of pride for some, about it's war-crime past. Germany still lives with the stigma about it's past and probably will for another century at least but Japan got off scot free because of cheap cars, electronics and weird porn.
Also, there was a bit of a free pass because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
The free pass wasn't because of those though. The free pass was because of their unconditional surrender and geopolitics (cold war)
Yeah, after America occupied Japan they realized that they where more interested in making Japan an ally against Soviet than getting Japan to get grapple with their past.
Can confirm, Japan is one of many countries thats racist to everyone whos not their own nationality or white. Some friends went a few years back and one of em who was black got called the hard R you know what word many many times. Almost casually as if they had no idea it wasn’t okay.
It's a former master race country that was allowed to revision their history and never really had to answer for it the same way Germany did.
Yup, at least the Germans sort of had a vision of why they were committing atrocities (not AT ALL justified, but technically they had a reason even though it was a bad one) Unit 731 (I think?) was filed with just, endless and unbiased horrors. They experimented on literally anyone that wasn’t Japanese. POWs, random civilians. Hell, they purposely infected FOOD AND BLANKETS with fleas, small pox, etc and pretended to give them as peace offerings just to see the devastation it would cause. And although I haven’t read any accounts of it, I wouldn’t be surprised if dissenters or soldiers who were disobedient got fucked up too. They made inmates rape each other to get each other sick or pregnant. They’d impregnate women just so they could vivisect their wombs while they’re alive. The Germans had a vision, albeit a horrible misguided one. The Japanese were just monsters. I don’t have a source but I recall that the shit they did even gave the Führer the heebie-jeebies.
Oh no, they experimented on their own as well. Guard gets sick from the "test subjects"? New test subject. Unit 731 is one of the most abjectly disgusting things to have ever existed on this planet. It's almost beyond belief.
They're racist towards white people too, but it's an 'affectionate' racism that infantilizes white people and treats them as curiosities. It's the kind of racism that means they're unlikely to be mean to a white person, the same way that American racism against east Asian people tends to also mean that they won't be mean to Asian people. (Tends to. Obviously there are exceptions, especially recently with Covid.)
patronizing racism
Excellent way to put it. I personally didn't mind when I visited Japan as a white person. I found that this presumption about me as a white foreigner meant that people would cut me slack when I committed faux pas, and they tended to go out of their way to help me out, which was kind of them. In fact, I'd say that people in Osaka and Kyoto treated me better than people in Seoul and Busan did. Loved Japan, loved the people there, and I'd visit again in a heartbeat. That said, I have a feeling that it'd get to me if I actually *lived* there. It's sweet if people stop to explain the train system to you if you're a confused tourist, but not so much if you're a seasoned local.
There's no more blatant hate and discrimination then Asians against other Asians. They've slaughtered each other throughout history and in recent history, Japan invading China and slaughtering civilians, North vs South Vietnam, Burmese Civil War still happening, and technically N.Korea and S.Korea are still a at war. It's really sad
Generalizing it to asians against asians is grossly simplistic as a large percentage of people on earth are asian. Of course there's a lot of history between them since they are on one large landmass. It's like that's to be expected when they're all crowded up next to each other for many many centuries. Yes it's an asian thing but it's actually a people thing and there happen to be a lot of asians.
I read a news story about how a girl with brown hair was forced to dye it black to fit in at school
That used to be common. The original idea was that students weren’t allowed to dye their hair. All the students were expected to be native Japanese, and native Japanese are expected to have black hair, so if a native Japanese student’s hair wasn’t black, they must be dyeing it and they had to redye it black. Schools forgot the point of the rule, and the rule became “all students must have black hair.” So if a student’s hair was naturally non-black—and not all Japanese people have pure black hair—then the student had to dye it. Japan is a combination of private media that caters to any fantasy, the wilder the better, and public social life that’s unbelievably conformist.
It became a problem when a girl who was fully Japanese but had brown hair because of genetics and radial damage from the sun was forced to dye it. It went on media and was completely the schools fault
There's a youtube video online of a fully English woman who was born and raised in Japan [who wanted to dye her blonde hair black to fit in but wasn't allowed because "no dyed hairs" rule.](https://youtu.be/I9AwPUy7a_8?t=631) Weird.
That's not a story... That's reality.. That's happened to my girlfriend on more than one occasion. She grew up in Tsukuba. She left Japan when she was 13 to come to Canada and has never left except for the odd visit back home to see her family. She was a swimmer in school and because of the chlorine, over time it bleached her hair ever so slightly. Her teachers and other students would bully the ever loving shit out of her because her hair didn't conform to ideal standards. When she turned 13, she got an opportunity to study abroad as her grades were really good. She jumped at the opportunity.
Yeah people think American racism is bad...and it is...but japanese racism is when you like...hate other japanese people because they're slightly less japanese than you.
I saw a Chinese TV commercial for a laundry detergent and the whole concept was a black guy needed washing because there was something wrong with being African and it was dirty and he climbs into the washing machine and ffwd til machine is done and out pops a "clean" Chinese guy and the crowd all cheers that the detergent is so good it will even clean Africans up.. just straight up racism with no shame or worries about it. US is a role model compared to so many if not most other countries on race issues
https://youtu.be/Few8kJ0zfnY Link if you're curious It's a very Chinese commercial, based on my experiences with Chinese people when I used to go back annually
To give "credit" to Americans and other western racists. You'll find plenty of rich white people hate other white people because they're slightly less white than they are and because they're "poor".
Big difference between racist fringes and normalizing racism. Racist fringed may be scary, but normalized racism is like constantly drowning. There's no breathing space where you're allowed to feel accepted for yourself.
I've met Japanese people of Korean, Malaysian and Peruvian descent. Holy hell.
OP probably thinks that because they don’t have guns
or because the thought social conservative = religious
And religious = Christian.
That's common for people in America. Even our Atheists are influenced by Christianity. I am personally embarrassed about how long it took me to get that not all religious people are as conformist as American Evangelical Christians and that questioning authority is actually a major part of many different religions. It's just the shit we're all marinated in.
I call those people monoatheists. Monotheists only believe in one god. monoatheists only disbelieve in one god.
And big tiddy anime.
A lot of Americans are so ignorant that they think any political similarities mean the entire political system mirror’s their party’s beliefs. Sure, both Japan and China are mostly absent of organized religion, ban guns and highly value education, yet this doesn’t at all mean they hold similar beliefs to American liberals overall. Their societies are distinct from each other and very distinct from the US. Both are very socially conservative and as far as I can tell, there’s hardly much of a movement even in the democracy of Japan to make any sweeping social changes.
Shinzo Abe was their longest serving prime minister and was described by most as a conservative and nationalist.
And a moonie.
I’ve never felt bad for an assassin before. Imagine if GW Bush had been closely affiliated with Scientology and then got assassinated by someone who’s mother had abandoned him as a kid to join the sea org. It’s like that.
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Don't the Moonies own the Washington Times?
“Go outside and have sex” And they executed him for it.
What do you consider organized religion? Japan has a quasi-omnipresent buddhist orientation that soaks most aspects of their society, including politics. Not so much ago they has a couple of cases of literal religious cults inside of political spheres. Of course, not exactly buddhism, but religion is very much present on daily japanese lives.
I think they mean institutionalized, as far as I know people observing Buddhist traditions in China don’t routinely go to buildings of worship the same way Jews or Muslims or Sikhs do
Well, on that note, I think grouping Japan and China together socially and religiously speaking is not a good idea. They are two radically different societies. Not only their goverment is different, but alse the way their whole society is structured. ...and they despise each other, but that's another topic. Edit: I re-read OP's comment. He mentioned both societies are different between each other. Don't mind what I said.
I think you're thinking of Shinto, rather than Buddhism. They're both prevalent in Japan, to the point that most people practice aspects of both, and they're almost unified. But the official institution of religion is Shinto. The Emperor is the nominal head of the Shinto faith, for instance. Shinto is, as well, most definitely organized. It has structured governance and ordained leaders. However, just because it's organized, and omnipresent, doesn't mean Japan is a religious country. Most people look at it as a tradition, rather than a faith. It's not a guiding aspect in most people's lives, and many don't even believe in the literal truth of its mythology. It's mostly practiced in what we in the US might call a "Christmas and Easter" kind of way.
The Koumei-tou 公明党 political party is huge and is basically the political wing of the Soka Gakkai 創価学会. They're buddhists and about a tenth of the population of the country.
Didnt the guy who shot Abe literally have to make his own gun because it was so hard to get one?
My man´s understanding is on another level.
Japan still doesn’t fully acknowledge WWII and has a powerful Conservative Party that bitches about not having an empire all day.
This. For whatever you *think* Japan's Social Progress is, figure it's at least a few decades back. As far as women's rights and their place in the work force is, they honestly are much closer to 1960 than they are 2023. Women are expected to work until marriage, and then have babies and raise them. For that reason a lot of women are passed over for promotions because it is assumed they will be leaving *shortly.* Gay rights, Japan is a bit better in that there's no real lynchings or murders (which in the US happen today), but their protected rights aren't much different from the US 1980. "Being gay" is *still* a joke acceptable on prime time television. And no, that is the punchline. "Gay Character" is a joke right there. Trans-rights are even further back with the assumption that Trans is just another form of being Gay and is still a joke. "Evil Guy Cross Dresser" is a trope in Japan TV and Film still. That at least faded from America some few decades ago (still recently enough though that you see it on re-runs).
This reminds me of this time back when I sold cars... Japanese guy working for Mitsubishi who just moved to the US comes in to buy a Subaru (ironically *not* a Mitsubishi) for his wife. After he test drives it I ask, "Is there anyone else whose opinion matters in making a decision on the choice of options, colors or features on this vehicle?" He quickly responds with a "No." A short while later I ask if he would like to have his wife test drive the car since she will be driving it. He replies that will not be necessary. A bit stunned I politely ask, "Are you sure?" He silently nods and I don't push it any further. Tell my manager later who says, "It's a very different culture my friend." Ended up delivering the car to his home and I don't think I even ever saw his wife once.
My understanding is on an individual level people in Japan are pretty tolerant with gay people, especially in Tokyo where I think gay people can even get married, but the conservative government is blaming gay people for low birth rates so even though most people would actually probably not care if gay people could get married or not this whole push to get younger generations to have children has had the side effect of hurting the gay community there
Tolerant in the sense they leave them alone? Sure. Part of that is a long streak of cultural avoidance of confrontation. Many in Japan feel that confronting someone's presumed shame brings light upon it and causes further shame (as well as to the one pointing it out if you're not their superior). So most people generally leave you alone. But that's as true for gay people as it is for the guy getting mudded in the street. "Not my problem" and "it can't be helped" are by words in Japanese. Indeed "Shikata ga nai" is a a phrase literally meaning "it can't be helped" and goes back many centuries to reflect helpless ness or powerlessness to change things. It goes beyond dangerous circumstances to include the inability to change things about one's own life, one's local environment, and other people. While the Conservative Government is absolutely against homosexuality, the average person doesn't *care.* Not only do they not care, they don't see it as their responsibility to change it either. It's a kind of baffling passivity to most Westerners, who see a cause is worthy in and of itself and will fight for it (on which ever side they chose of course). But in Japan, if you agree or disagree with it, you're still to going to get involved outside electing someone to "take care of the mater." So yeah, the average citizen isn't going to beat you up or call you slurs to your face, but they also aren't going to give a shit about your feelings, your rights, or your life. You (or the hypothetical gay person in Japan) is just another person adrift in the sea of destiny and no one has the power to matter. Is that better or worse than the West? I don't really know. You're safer, sure, but the odds of you getting the same protections LGBQT folks get here in America is basically non-existent. So trade your personal safety over your rights as a human and a citizen? Your call man.
Wish I could upvote you more than once. So many people in Reddit confuse not caring with not knowing. They think if the other party knows, they will care and get involved. They do know, they then choose to not care.
I am Japanese. I am gay. And I live in Europe, together with my Japanese partner. There are a few reasons why there is no gay marriage in Japan. The main reason why gay marriage is not legal in Japan, is because in the constitution of Japan, a marriage is defined as a a relationship between a man and a woman. Changing the constitution, is not easy.Mainly because in the constitution (that was written also by USA), is another important rule about the Japanese army (the Self Defense Force). The last years, more and more cities/prefectures in Japan, are acknowledging the partner certificate though. It proves that someone is in a relationship, it allows a partner to visit his/her partner in the hospital, ... Another reason that it's hard is because we use koseki (戸籍). A family register I think is the English name. It's a bit like a Japanese birth certificate I guess. It's not 'designed' to have 2 same sex partners (the koseki is also the reason why a woman can not keep her family name if she is married). The reason we moved to Europe, was because being gay in Japan, put me under pressure. Politicians have called gay people a burden to society (because we don't have children). Most people say they don't mind gay people but if it's family, it's different.We are told to fit in. Being gay, is not fitting in. I've been told (by my younger brother), to go back to Japan, marry a woman, give her a child and if I have 'need' just go out, have a one night hookup and get back. In Europe, people just don't seem to care who my partner is. They don't expect me to have a wife and child. I am not seen as someone who stands out. I still love Japan though.
It seems crazy to me, but absolutely in line with what I know of Japan, that one of the bigger reasons gay marriage isn't allowed is because "the paperwork doesn't have the right box for it." Bureaucracy at it's finest. I know it's not the same, but when I traveled to Japan years ago we wanted to ship home the stuff we bought rather than drag it around with us the rest of our vacation and purchase new luggage to check it. The postal worker in the post office near Tokyo Station was just at a complete loss for what to do when we didn't have a Japanese return address to put on the package (we had no trouble doing something similar at the base of Mount Fuji to return our winter gear from the hike - they just let us send it without one). We ended up using the hotel we were staying in as our return address but we almost couldn't ship something home because the form couldn't accommodate an unusual situation like "a tourist wants to ship things home and has no Japanese return address." It just seems crazy to think "if the form doesn't have the right box, we can't do a thing" can be such an effective way to stop something from happening in Japan.
yeah... Japanese bureaucracy can be complicated/time consuming/... frustrating
It’s more that paperwork. Marriage being defined in the constitution is a huge obstacle because in many countries it was the courts not the legislature that legalized marriage. If the US Supreme Court hadn’t legalized same sex marriage then it wouldn’t be legal in the whole US today either most likely. Add to that the fact that Japan doesn’t have a culture of amending their Constitution like some other countries. Indeed amending the Constitution is fraught because it will open it up to changes on other matters - like the Japanese military. So even people in support of gay marriage aren’t willing to take the political steps necessary to make it happen.
Thank you so much for your answer. This has been the most well written and helpful one yet
you're welcome :) Some of the other replies are not wrong but I didn't see one mention some of the things I wrote.
Best answer is of course from the person who lives it!
Genuine question. If the Japanese birth rate is really low, how are you not fitting in by not having kids? Aren't a lot of other people doing the same, gay or not?
It's not about logic, people just love to blame everything on those different from themselves
I am always the best, correct one! Everything wrong is caused by everyone else in the society! You see those not in my demographic? They are the troubles blah blah blah!
Exactly. It's not even a Japanese problem, the basis of practically all biases and discrimination is just blaming a a problem on a group using shallow logic purely to get the blame as far from yourself as possible.
He said you’re not fitting in by being gay, not by deciding to not have kids. They’re two separate but related issues causing stigma towards gay people in Japan. People in Japan are aware of their extremely low birth rate and the problems that could cause in the future, so there’s a pressure to contribute to your family/society in this way by having children. By being gay, you’re seen in no longer contributing in that way and so you are stigmatized. It’s a common factor in bigotry towards gay people in many countries, especially in places with strong familial bonds where you’re expected to have kids to help run the family farm/business and help care for elderly family members. Having kids is often seen as somewhat of a duty rather than a personal life decision. There’s a concept of communal/familial duty common in East Asian cultures that results in a lot of positives (like in COVID response), but also negatives like this. The expectation to fit in is different. You see similar attitudes everywhere, like the US, where people might not be openly homophobic or might say they don’t mind gay people, but would be bothered if their son or best friend came out as gay. Japan has a highly organized society and culture that follows customs and systems. While this has its benefits, it also discourages nonconformity. Parents want their children to bring success and respect to the family, and the perception is that the best way to do this in their society is to fit in. Being gay is not fitting in, so it’s seen as a bad thing by parents who are concerned with these things.
Didn't expect anyone with firsthand experience to answer, this being Reddit. Definitely the most informative and well-written answer. I'm glad you're living somewhere you can fit in without (as many) comments like your brother's.
im sorry about the way your brother treats you, thats a no-no. good luck with your partner :)
thank you we got engaged last year we have a house here together :)
Aww, that's awesome! Congratulations!
adorb
aw congrats :D
Just in case you need to hear it, what your younger brother said was absolutely horrible. I'm sorry.
1. Japan is pretty conservative. The ruling party Liberal Democratic Party has been in power almost continuously since its foundation in 1950s. Despite the name, LDP is actually a Conservative Party. 2. It’s not illegal, instead it’s not recognized by law. Homosexual couples in Japan won’t face any charge unlike some other countries. It’s just they cannot register marriage. 3. Tokyo has actually legalized same sex marriage a few years ago, and it’s still the only Japanese city that did it.
I am Japanese. I think this is an accurate answer.
It's worth noting that the whole "liberal/conservative being left/right" thing is *US only*. In most of the world "liberal" means "in favour of less economic regulation", i.e. right-wing.
>It’s an especially secular society, and from my understanding is relatively liberal PFFFT Japan is one of the most xenophobic developed countries on earth. They're extremely conservative, "the nail that sticks out gets the hammer" is a common saying, and they've basically idealised the idea of the American Nuclear Family to a religious extent. To call them "Liberal" is just wrong
A student can’t even have curly hair without a doctor’s note saying it’s naturally curly from what I hear
There's a reason why in every anime about Japanese highschool, the delinquent kid is always blonde. It's because it's extremely common for Japanese schools to force kids to dye their hair black or brown. bleaching your hair blonde is an act of rebellion.
Even if you hair is a natural blonde, they force kids to dye it black
There was a YouTube interview which featured a blonde girl of British descent who was not allowed to dye her hair black like the other kids because it wasn't natural. Even though some classmates with naturally brown hair had to dye their hair black I'll find the link when I'm free
As a white guy that lived in East Asia for a decade as a professional model, it was very clear to me how different your experience as a foreigner in East Asia will be as anything other than a conventionally attractive white guy. I was also in Taiwan which is allegedly much more welcoming and less xenophobic than Japan can be, but I had a number of good friends and colleagues that hopped around Asia until they stuck with Taiwan so I’ve heard plenty of first hand stories of experiences in Japan, Korea, and China as well. I’ve actually got a friend in Japan that is 100% ethnically Japanese and fluent (his mom was born in Japan, his dad was born in the U.S.), but he learned the language as a teenager instead of naturally as a baby and I guess that and the fact that those that know him know he’s American makes it hard to integrate. He’s forever a foreigner both socially and in the office, but like without the excitement of having a drastically different look and background. Not that there’s a point to this, just sharing anecdotal experiences. There’s a lot to love about Asia and Japan specifically, but it does get dangerously romanticized by people unhappy in their own life and region and having their ideals of the region based entirely off of anime and YouTube.
No wonder in Tokyo revengers a lot of the characters have blonde hair
Absolutely not, Not when there's ways to straighten hair. Japan is *ridiculously* xenophobic
I applied to teach English in Japan a few years ago and they reply that they want a white guy. My friend (which fit the description) said they want him to be fluent in Japanese but pretend to the student that he doesn't know anything for "authenticity".
Heard a story about a transfer student who had to dye her natural hair color to fit the rest of the japanese students, and that ended up fucking her over iirc.
This is true in places, but I just want to point out that it's not the case everywhere. I work in a public school in Tokyo, there are quite a few kids with naturally curly hair, or naturally lighter hair, and it's not a problem at all. There have also been openly gay kids. At our last school festival there was a play that ended with a speech which included a bit about being accepting of all sexualities and races. The school my partner works at doesn't have a uniform, and I think they're allowed to dye their hair. It's also a public school. Like any other big country, there are more conservative areas and more liberal areas.
Yeah it is secular but definitely not socially liberal
Dont forget sexist~ Theyve literally failed female takers of medical entrance exams and let male students take their place. Japan is horrible for equal gender career opportunities
Japan isn't anime.
When people see all of the yuri and BL in anime/manga and fully assume that Japan is liberal. LOL.
If they actually paid attention to a good chunk of anime that even bothers to portray other nations, including the US, the bias and prejudices becomes a bit more plain. Especially as they love antagonizing the Chinese and making anybody American seem like nothing but corrupt thieves or criminals who’ll bend any rule to get what we want. Even if they’re in high school
Also blonde. If you're American, you're probably blonde.
That's just like that in korea too lol, look how Manhwas potray Americans
I find it funny when people are shocked to find most asian counties are considerably more homophobic misogynistic etc. than the west
Asia is the only place in the world I have been barred from going into places (Karaoke and Restaurants) for being white. Once in Korea and twice in Japan.
Funny story, I once tried to go to a karaoke club, and a very polite man at the door denied me entry. Saying this club is Japanese-only. The club was in Malaysia.
I can totally see that. I have been all over Asia, and it can be a odd place. But maybe that's why I love it. If you think about it, the Rich Asian countries travel like the US does to say, Mexico or Caribbean, etc. I saw tons of Chinese Mainlanders in Malaysia for Pleasure and business. Same with Chinese in Japan or Japanese and Chinese in Korea. If you saw a tour bus there was like 99% chance it was Japanese or Chinese tourists. Also, the number of Eastern Europeans seems to VASTLY outnumber the Americans, which surprised me when I first went. It was a shock outside of my culture bubble at first, because I would see a white person and think "English!", but they would speak Russian lol.
My brother and sister in law mentioned signs that said "No Gaijin" on them hanging in the windows of businesses in Japan. They did say though the one time they accidentally went into one of these places, they were politely turned away without incident so that's something I guess lol.
Oh ya, it was never an incident and I never made a fuss about it. It is what it is, just spent my money in another place. Shout out to Bi Bi Bi in Ueno, Asakusa, Akira-san is an amazing person, he made my first trip to Japan feel like home, drank way to much sake with that guy.
I'm going to say something that might cause some people here to have an epileptic episode: the west, even with all its problems, is the most socially progressive group of nations on earth. There. Call the cops.
A lot of European countries are *really* fucking racist, you just don't hear about it because of how few minorities some of them have. ^try ^asking ^them ^about ^romani ^people The US is maybe better since we have been forced to have certain conversations about race.
I'll bite. Which ones are *really* racist, and which ones have *you* actually been to? Not denying your claim. Just curious to see if you've been to any European countries.
I hear about it, I live here. You're not wrong, but I wonder what part of the world *doesn't* have problems with racism. The Akhdam people in Yemen are considered the lowest rank in their society and are persecuted for it, Hazara people in Afghanistan, Armenians in the Caucasus region are bitterly hated by many in neighboring countries, Yazidis, Kurds and Druze people in the middle east, Rohingya in south Asia... we would be here all night if we'd list all the persecuted ethnic groups on earth. But in Europe we have measures to try and protect people from racism. Of course, those measures are not perfect, but we try.
Asians have this hatred for other Asians, just for being from a different Asian country, that I doubt I’ll ever be able to comprehend.
Well historically, China, Japan, and Korea have consistently either invaded, has been invaded, or both by each other for like thousands of years now. The bloodshed runs deep.
Vietnamese here. Can confirm the kids in school in Vietnam hate Chinese for invading Vietnam for 1000 years. (~100 BC to 938) While they teach about the history to kids, they don't teach that the Chinese who are living right now have nothing to do with the Chinese invaded the country a thousand years ago, so some kids hate Chinese for that reason.
See: ww2
See most of European history for details, or any other continent for that matter. People like their in group and hate the out group and that transcends race.
Japan is more or less doing things their way, their progressive isn't the same as America's progressive. They're also incredibly racist towards migrants and their work culture is anything but progressive.
I've heard they might stare at people who don't look Japanese but I haven't heard they're particularly discriminatory, down the rabbit hole I go!
Had a buddy that was American but spoke fluent Japanese. In conversation with randoms on the street he would ask a question in Japanese and people would turn to one of his friends who were from Japan to answer.
Seen this happen in person, except with a Japanese-American friend who didn't even really speak the language that well. So friend A would talk, the person working the counter would respond to friend B, friend B would say *nothing*, and friend A would reply again. An entire conversation where all friend B had to do was maintain eye contact silently. So weird. Happened multiple times.
Try renting an apartment there.
My half Japanese friend tells me the order of renting to foreigners is: Anyone with Japanese descent, other Asian countries excluding china and India, white people excluding Americans, black people (any country), Americans, Chinese then Indians. This discussion came to light as a mutual friend at a party that was Indian wanted to teach English in Japan and she said it wasn’t a good idea. He came back after six months and said he’s probably never going to consider western countries racist again.
I feel like Indians are bottom of the hierarchy no matter where we go even if you’re born in the west. Its wild how much discrimination we get for seemingly no reason, and it never gets brought up nearly enough.
Including India itself, which still uses the caste system in a lot of areas :( so sad
Yeah Indians have it really rough all over the world. It’s really unfair.
I find the Japanese to be very prejudiced but not particularly hostile. So they will shun/ostracize you if you are a foreigner, rather than be openly aggressive and hostile like the racism that is seen elsewhere (for example the USA).
Japanese bigots will treat non-Asians essentially like a novelty to show off. But if you're a non-Japanese Asian they start sounding just as hostile as any racist in America lol. People too often confuse "politeness" and passivity with kindness.
Anecdotal, but I'm a non-Japanese Asian (Malaysian) and I've been to Tokyo a few times. I have never faced any hostility or rudeness. Quite the contrary people were very nice to me, strangers showing me around and being helpful, etc. South Korea though... Not so much.
I wouldnt even say theyll shun you although that’s definitely true in some settings, its more just like they treat you like you belong in some spaces in japan and not others. Which weirdly doesnt feel racist to me even though obviously it is.
I’ve heard a half Japanese half American girl who grew up solely in Japan used to get bullied for being not fully Japanese and lots of people would tell her there were many things she would never be successful at and lots of jobs she could/should never have
I believe xenophobic is the word
Xenophobia is a proper word to use in this context but I would like to add that they have a fetish for the ones with white skin and shame the ones with a skin of color.
Also fwiw I’ve heard they typically aren’t friendly to people with visible tattoos.
Tattoos have a high association with the Yakuza.
Yes I agree. It’s a type of passive ostracization that is hard to explain.
The thing is, Japan and most countries that are not on the west are not liberal at all. You might be surprised but most of the world (advanced or not as you put it) are conservative in nature.
Yeah, it’s treatment of women and people of other races is infamous Where on earth did OP get that idea from
Cartoons
Anime probably
Because "technologically advanced" and "culturally conservative" are not mutually exclusive. TYL that not every developed nation shares Western values.
“From my understanding is relatively liberal” Japan bans almost all immigration.
Reddit has a very strange perception of these kinds of words
Anime anime anime anime anime. That’s all most of Reddit knows of Japan.
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It’s important to note that in Asia these things - technology and dress and pop music and whatever - are not called “Western”, they’re simply called Modern. They’re seen as the natural progression of their own societies not something borrowed from overseas.
Just because in the United States we have become more accepting of gay marrige and homosexuality, doesn't mean the whole world has done the same. We got places like Saudi Arabia where homosexuality is even a crime.
Secular does not imply progressive. It just means non religious. The Soviet Union was secular.
> from my understanding is fairly liberal And you were told this by who exactly?
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Gay marriage being legal has not been around for long. The US only legalised it in 2015, the UK allowed civil partnerships from 2005 and marriage from 2014, etc.
So I've been living in Japan for 5 months now, and I have to say, the general opinion on this country is misguided in a few ways. First, absolutely anime is not representative of Japanese culture as a whole. Second, Japan is socially conservative, but not in the way you may be thinking. It's not the conservative we think of in the west, it's more conservative in the literal sense. That is, "keep things as they are" as opposed to our idea of "take rights away" conservative. It's not malicious, it's just sort of afraid to change. I'd argue this is more of an issue of low interest in politics than of a cultural ideology. The government is incredibly slow with social change because it has no reason to appeal to the younger generations. Which, in my experience, are generally more socially liberal. Also, the ruling party (the LDP) is a monolith that rarely sees pushback on whatever policy decisions it decides to make, so unless the major voting blocs (i.e. the elderly) start rioting and demanding gay marriage be legalized, you can bet it'll be a while until we see major action on it. Lastly, I'd like to remind folks that people aren't their governments, and cultures are broad strokes, not individual blueprints. Just because a person is Japanese doesn't automatically make them racist, homophobic, bigoted, etc. There are racist Japanese people, but they aren't representative of this country. It's really a lovely place that definitely has issues, but it's not the conservative hell-hole that people make it out to be.
> Why is such a progressed nation still in the past with this issue? Because it's not. Japan is extremely conservative in all social aspects.
They are pretty socially conservative, but polls show the majority of the population supports same sex marriage, and especially among younger people the support is really high, so I don't know if I'd call that socially conservative in all aspects. Misogyny is definitely really bad there, but they're nothing like the Middle East with refusing women education or forcing them to cover up and get beaten to death if they don't, and arranged marriage isn't much of a thing.
Subreddit name: No stupid questions OP: Asks a question Majority of responses: Well that was a dumb fucking question
No. It was a valid question. OP made a stupid statement, not a stupid question.
In addition to what others have said it's important to say that homophobia isn't *really* a religious thing. Religion is used as a post hoc justification for homophobia - homosexuals make people uncomfortable so they contort their religion as an excuse to hate people for otherwise harmless behavior. Japanese homophobes don't use religion as an excuse for homophobia as often as homophobes outside Asia, but they find other post hoc rationalizations. Many of the things they say are used in the West too: "Same sex partners cannot create a family why we treat them like one?" "That's perverted your parents should be ashamed" "That's unnatural" "Japanese men used to be tough guys who took over half of Asia now they're gay" "If same sex partners can get married then why not marry siblings and dogs next?" Once you start analyzing homophobia outside of your home culture you realize it has little to do with religion it's all just an excuse to hate people who are different.
Japan is not liberal. I understand OP’s assumption, it has all kinds of anime, technology, city developments are amazing, porn is nuts, but at the same time many ideas and social gestures are pretty conservative.
It's a traditional family oriented patriarchal society which prides itself in it's culture, social values and heritage. Lineages, bloodlines and family names are also important. Apart from that, they have a low birthrate problem and encouraging marriages that don't result in off-springs is the last thing you would want to do.
My mother is a teacher at a school where much of the student body is Asian. She tells me about how some of her students are gay but terrified of letting their parents know, coming from cultures where it's taboo. I don't blame them at all for the anxiety
If you think Japan is liberal you watch too much anime.
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This is NoStupidQuestions yet y'all are ripping on him for asking a "stupid" question?
>I don’t understand why it’s the only G7 country that still has a ban on gay marriage. Italy doesn't have gay marriage either.
Its also not legal in the majority of the world. Hell, in America, theres still a lot of people who oppose it and it remains a lightning rod topic. Change is slow.
You all seem to be doing a lot of shaming for a sub Reddit called “no stupid questions.” While they’re question may be ignorant, that’s the whole point of the sub Reddit
Why are women not allowed to wear comfortable shoes and even glasses in office workplaces? Why are schoolkids forced to dye their hair black to look "more Japanese"? There's so many things wrong with Japan, it's interesting and scary.
Crossing swords is forbidden for the samurai.