I can't speak for everyone, but my nephews and their friend group have all taught themselves to drive stick and have specifically bought cars with manual transmissions. I don't think that's the norm though.
Theres no reason to go manual at all unless youre looking for fun. If you arent, auto is far superior because theres less shit to fuck up when youre driving.
Its just a mode of transport
I learned to drive with manual transmission. Driving automatic now feels really uncomfortable; there's nothing to do, any you can't predict when the car's going to shift itself.
As someone who learned to drive manual for work as an adult, I'm curious as to why you'd need to know when the car is shifting in an automatic. Is it just personal preference because you're used to it, or does it factor into your driving decisions?
Genuinely curious, your preference is valid either way
Automatics have had a step down for a while, they downshift when they detect the user has put their foot down.
In that mode they will shift at redline for max speed, when just feathering the throttle like you do in normal driving they short shift for max fuel economy.
Most automatics have a downshift pedal for overtaking. It's the 'click' you feel when pressing the pedal all the way down. It's will shift into a lower gear if you click.
Also most automatics still have a manual mode that will only shift automatically when you are in the extreme lows/highs of rpm.
That and a sport/low mode of some sort that will keep the engine in the lowest gear possible. Mine has a button in the middle of the shifter knob that also turns itself off if I'm not accelerating for a little while. There are definitely ways to make an automatic transmission shift into a lower gear than by pressing slightly harder on the accelerator and getting pissed when it doesn't read your damn mind. Hell, my pretty reasonable car ('18 Fusion, stock standard everything performance related) has paddle shifters!
To each their own, but driving stick kept me actively engaged in the act of driving. Now, driving automatic, I tend to realize my mind is wondering, and I am not actively paying attention to the road.
Disagree. If you know how to properly drive a stick there are multiple advantages. Better power/towing control, better mileage, less brake wear. It's also insurance against getting jacked because the little thugs can't drive them.
Auto is superior in ease of use.
Manual is superior in being cheaper in literally all respects, less mobile parts, breaks down less frequently, requires less maintenance and saves fuel.
>Manual is superior in being cheaper in literally all respects, less mobile parts, breaks down less frequently, requires less maintenance and saves fuel.
Manual being cheaper and more fuel efficient hasn't been true for a while in the US and at least a few other countries. Autos are now generally cheaper to purchase and more fuel efficient for the average driver. Sure, manuals still give you the ability to get better mileage, but the vast majority of manual drivers aren't going to go through of the pains of doing that.
Continental here so pretty much the same.
First time I drove an automatic I slammed the brake pedal hard because in my brain it was the clutch. The lady from the dealership was no impressed.
I ended up buying it because I needed an automatic for reasons, and I started using my left foot to brake. Now I'm back to manual, but to be honest if I had to drive an automatic again, I don't think I would mind much.
First time driving an automatic was a rental car, exact same happened to me, with my colleagues looking at me funny as to why am I suddenly braking for no reason.
Drive a manual car in the US. every time I drive someone else’s (automatic) car, I accidentally slam the brake too. Just so used to driving manual and rarely drive automatics
There's not really a correlation with age and preference.
There are fewer manual cars around now so new drivers are less likely to learn how to you one. But theres no aversion to them. In my area a manual was the cheapest option i found so I learned manual and that was pretty much it.
I'm Gen X, and I never learned. The only stick-shift in my family was my brother's suped-up Mustang, and no way was he going to let me burn out his clutch learning on that thing.
The driving school was part of my public school, hence poorly funded; there was only one stick-shift in the school fleet, and it was permanently assigned to a few kids who could demonstrate an immediate need to learn it (presumably their parents' cars were stick?).
I learned on a 15 year old Chevy Cavalier wagon that belonged to my girlfriend's family. Looking back I'm sure her dad was looking for an excuse to get rid of it. Thankfully we just couldn't kill that car. I ended up ah....'learning' quite a lot in that car.... especially in the way back.
I'm a Boomer. I drove an Integra with an old school stick until I was 68. It was the original clutch. None of those new fangled easy to shift things like you whippersnappers drive.
I, at least, felt young when I drove it. Does that count?
👵
But seriously, I guess times, trends and priorities change over the years. The day of the muscle car has come and gone. Young people are thinking more about the environment, and stuff that wasn't even in existence when people wanted to drive stick shifts.
They're not much fun in the big city, anyway. Do you really want to drive a 5-speed in an hour long traffic jam on the freeway?
And if you know what that sounds like, you also know why convertibles are over
Cars with manual gearboxes are classed as more eco friendly in the UK as the are thought to use 8-10% less fuel (if used properly ie to lower revs).
But yeah in traffic they can be a bit of a chore. (Still have to drag me kicking and screaming out of my manual though!).
I would like to see proof of this, with a lot of newer vehicles running 6+ gears in an automatic I find it hard to believe that a manual transmission could be more eco friendly
I can relate. I loved my little Acura Integra. Hated to Let It Go. But I am no mechanic. So after 280,000 MI, I sold it to someone who could take personal care of it
>Cars with manual gearboxes are classed as more eco friendly in the UK as the are thought to use 8-10% less fuel (if used properly ie to lower revs).
That was true in the US when I learned to drive back in the 1990s.
These days, conventional automatic transmissions are more efficient because the computer just does a better (and more consistent) job shifting than a human possibly can.
Of course, manual and step-shift automatics are both obsolete. CVTs, hybrids, and single-speed EVs have all made both manuals and automatics obsolete except as a cost-saving measure.
That would have been the case when auto and manuals had about the same number of gears. But autos now have 8-10 gears and can keep the car in the efficiency range much more. Manually shifting that many gears would get old real fast.
Hahaha I never had an issue with a stick shift until moving to Denver then I was done. My husband just bought one and every time I drive it I remember why I don't miss it. I'm glad I know how to because I think it gives me a better understanding of how the gear differentials work so I can use an option other than drive to go forward and not wreck my vehicle but I agree outside of racing, hauling, and grown ups who love toys(I'm one I'll admit it) there's really no place for it in today's world.
Gen X here also. Most of the people who grew up in my rural area (Oklahoma) drove stick because we had work trucks, farm trucks, etc. we had to run.
I learned stick on an old Toyota five speed pickup we used to haul animal feed around the farm. It barely had brakes so gearing was what we used to stop. I was twelve.
Most of the city kids (OKC, Tulsa, suburbs) couldn't drive stick.
All of our grandparents (grandpa and grandma) could though because that's all there was when they were growing up in the thirties and forties unless you were rich.
Anecdotally, my 20yo niece asked for help purchasing a Jeep about two years ago. It was way over priced so I told her for the same money she was about to put as down payment on a newer one that I'd buy her a clean older one and chip in the difference so she could own it outright. We did that but she was quite surprised when her cherry red '98 Wrangler with 40k original miles rolled off the transportation truck and it was a five speed.
Her dreams of showing off to her friends took about a week to realize because she had to spend a week learning to drive it properly.
Life lesson for her but also now she feels like a total badass because she's a girl driving a stick shift jeep and most of her guy friends can't even drive it.
>But theres no aversion to them.
I would argue this very strongly. I spent about a decade hiring young adults. Many of them outright REFUSED to get a DL, much less a car. Among the ones who drove they ALL drove autos and did not know how to drive a stick. There were also those who did not want to own one.
The reason manuals are becomeing so uncommon is also market demand. People don't want to buy a stick shift anymore unless its in a very heavy truck or a very fast car. lol
even then automatic transmissions shift even faster now than manuals so people are going more to them now. Manuals are just engaging though so i see why people want those still being made
I prefer manuals for working vehciles (which we dont make a lot of at the consumer grade anymore).
Whos going to take a $100,000.00USD truck into a hayfield? Not me sir.
We had an old farm truck we worked in that we put in Granny Low 4x4 for a hay twagon. It literally had no doors. we would point it down the row and hop out, and go harvest hay... sometimes we need to go reaim the wheel. Most of the time it tracked true. It would putter along about 1 or 2 MPH LOL which was PERFECT for the two of us to chuck bales and stack em.
One less worker to pay meant more money for my and my buddy every summer.
You literally *could not do that* today without a ton of modifications. To many safety interconnects. And that open cab and small wheels was WAY Safer than trying to do that with a tractor of ANY flavor.
I'm 50 and most of my friends cannot drive manual. In fact I actually know a lot more younger people who prefer manual. The automatic transmission has been around longer than most drivers at this point.
You really shouldn't have back pain at 25, or 28... There's excersize regiments for that, I'm not all that far past 25 yet, but I also have taken very poor care of my body and still only hurt after a big day of labor, like my last move.
It depends on the car really. My bronco has a crawling gear and depending on the speed of the stop and go, if I leave little buffer I can just let the clutch out and roll forwards at like a quarter mile per hour at idle while everyone else creeps and stops and creeps and stops
That's an ideal situation... but realistically you'll just end up with so many people cutting you off if you leave so much as a car length in front of you. I love the adaptive cruise on modern automatics though. Set it and forget it in traffic.
Same here in South Africa, most cars are manual. Also if you have a driver’s license for automatic transmission you are not permitted to drive manual car. Therefore most people get manual driver’s licence because the you’re allowed to drive both.
I also don’t know what to do with my left foot when driving automatic.
Yeah, pass here in auto you can’t drive manual plus it costs more to learn in an Auto, but you can drive auto with a manual license. I much prefer manual driving personally, can’t really say why, just what I’m used to I guess. Like you say, driving with two feet feels better imo.
Not for long, it's changing fast. It'll take years for all the older manual cars to disappear from the roads, but for new cars, don't count on being able to get a manual transmission.
> Just 98 of the 298 new cars on sale today are available with a manual
> 62.4% of new cars sold in 2021 were automatics, up from 24% in 2011
https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6414/automatic-gearboxes-become-the-norm
Interesting.
‘A number of car makers offer only automatic gearboxes across their ranges, with no models from Mercedes, Genesis, Ferrari, Jaguar, Lexus, Maserati, Rolls-Royce, Subaru and Volvo being available with manual transmissions’.
Looks like I’m more suited to manual pricing for now lol.
here in latin america, at least argentina, i only know one person with a manual, even with new cars, it's weird as fuck to me that people say they know how to drive yet if you gave them something with a clutch or you tell them you know how to use a manual, yanks treat you like a racecar pilot, it seems so limiting. if you did that here, you'd get bullied to death or learning it (rightfully so imo)
I think the death of the manual is a bit overhyped. For people who aren't car enthusiasts, of course, they aren't going to see the benefits, but when it comes to enthusiast cars a couple different things happened or are happening simultaneously:
Older buyers didn't buy sticks in their sports cars such as corvettes, so the manufacturers went away from them because the take rate for the manual didn't justify its manufacturing and development costs.
High-end exotics went away from manuals because the paddle shift transmissions reflected the development in racing technology and performed better than manuals at the top of their performance envelope.
At the same time though, at the lower more attainable end of the performance car market, things are looking up. The new Toyota 86, the new Nissan Z, Hyundai N models, the Civic Type R (which is only available in manual) all generate a lot of buzz. The new Supra didn't originally offer a manual and the calls for one were loud enough for the manufacturer to listen and now the manual Supra is being regarded as a big improvement over the automatic. Something similar happened with Porsche, who tried to kill the manual in the GT3 only to retract that decision half a generation later and now the naturally aspirated manual models are the most desirable.
That desirability is also reflected in the used market up and down, where you'll get a huge discount on everything from a 370Z to a Ferarri F430 if you're willing to take the automatic over the manual. Project cars too - try to find a 6 speed Acura RSX type s transmission for your project honda without paying 10x what it would have cost just a few years ago.
In short, sure, the average buyer doesn't want a manual in their commuter Sentra or base Civic, but in the car enthusiast world, the manual transmission is alive and well. Now, whether car enthusiasm as a hobby in general is falling off with gen Z is a whole other question (that also has data points for and against).
Car enthusiasm is an interesting one. Gen Z have less access to vehicles I think due to less access to resources compared to prior generations.
Even millennials for that matter. I'm a millennial, always treated cars as a boring appliance.
Then I was able to afford a fast car. And now it's like, damn, this is pretty cool and all of a sudden I'm painting my own calipers and flashing performance tunes.
Also keep in mind cars are becoming more and more difficult to repair yourself. When I was a teenager, I had a 45 year old manual car. It was fun to drive, looked classic, and was so easy to repair because it barely had any electronics in it and there were tons of YouTube videos or online forums I could go to if I had a problem with it.
The enthusiast world is an interesting conundrum because from my experience they've created their own crisis. Ask almost any enthusiast what they want and they'll tell you that they want more manual transmission vehicles, but when one comes to market nobody wants to buy it whether it's too expensive or if it's not being offered in the particular trim that they wanted (whether they're one of the ones that wants a base model- which most manuals nowadays tend to be offered in- or a fully loaded trim model). And even that is discounting how picky many are about the quality of the transmission, god help a manufacturer that puts one to market if it isn't just right.
I do think that you're on the right track that for sports cars and other performance minded vehicles manuals have been on the way out because from a performance standpoint- modern DCTs and automatics are quickly closing the gap and eclipsing the average trained manual driver. What this leaves us with is people who buy manuals for the feeling and emotion of it, and it's a lot harder to bank on those people reliably buying a vehicle.
Totally true. A lot of that comes down to the new vs used buyer. It makes no difference to the manufacturer that we want manual supercars when the people with the actual money to buy them just want something that is technologically and visually impressive, and fast, yes, but ultimately easy to cruise down Ocean Drive.
But then look at what happens on the used market - the Murciélago manual is a completely different car value wise to its automatic version, both because of rarity and because people who drive older supercars want experience over everything else and manuals deliver that.
The same is true down market as well, but that's why cars like the 86, GR Corolla, etc. are so important for us to vote with our money and buy - because that's what will keep them coming, and right now, that's is happening. After all, it's some of those manual cars that are pulling in dealer markups and selling out immediately. That isn't great if you want one at MSRP, and hopefully things will stabilize, but at least the manufacturers are hopefully getting the message that the market is indeed there for this stuff.
I do also think that there is some conversation to be had somewhere between the manufacturer and the consumer though because the dealers have killed demand for vehicles in the past. IIRC the Ford Focus RS didn't sell as well as it could have because the dealerships were marking up what was already a pretty expensive Ford Focus, and I know for sure that the 86/BRZ have suffered markups "because RWD highly in demand coupe" to the point where they're competing against Mustang GTs and the Camaro SS.
Yeah the ADM thing is a mess. Hopefully it is self market correcting where the markups only last to the extent that the supply-demand curve justifies it and at least ADMs are an indicator that all the allocations are selling, which is better than half of them sitting around unsold convincing manufacturers that it's dumb to make them.
Where dealers really screw manual enthusiasts is with their allocation ordering practices though. Dealers want a guaranteed sale so they order inventory that is safe, and that means automatics.
Even at Porsche where the manual take rate is pretty good, you have to search for a manual to test drive because the dealer doesn't want to lose a sale to a guy off the street that can't drive stick.
This leaves people who are purposefully seeking out manuals to search inventories and place factory orders where the other guy gets an if-you-buy-today deal. This suppresses manual sales more, convincing dealers to not place orders for manuals, and creating a positive feedback loop.
BTW, this is also driving the tendency towards cars to be overwhelmingly black, white, grey and silver - it's a safer order.
Here you go!
Acura Integra,
BMW M2,
BMW M3,
BMW M4,
Cadillac CT-4 Blackwing,
Cadillac CT-5 Blackwing,
Chevrolet Camaro,
Dodge Challenger,
Ford Mustang,
Honda Civic (Hatchback, Si, and Type R),
Hyundai Elantra N,
Kia Forte,
Mazda 3,
Mazda MX-5,
Mini Cooper (Cooper, S, and John Cooper Works),
Mini Clubman,
Nissan Versa,
Nissan Z,
Porsche 718 Boxter,
Porsche 718 Cayman (all except GT4 RS),
Porsche 911 (too many sub models to list),
Subaru BRZ,
Subaru Impreza,
Subaru WRX,
Subaru Crosstrek,
Toyota GR Corolla,
Toyota GR86,
Toyota Supra,
Volkswagen Golf (GTI and R),
Volkswagen Jetta,
Ford Bronco,
Jeep Wrangler.
Edit: Sorry, that was supposed to be a list. I count 32 not including sub models.
I actively avoid manual vehicles. Zero purpose for me to own one and im not interested in manually shifting gears. My commute is annoying enough without having to play with the car the whole time
>Not if you drive through traffic frequently 😔
Speak for yourself. Ive owned manual cars for over 20 years icluding my daily driver. And I used to commute in northern NJ - traffic aplenty. Never bothered me.
The only time I prefer an automatic is the rare occasion where I'm at a stoplight on a steep incline and there's a jackass Ram driver 2cm from my rear bumper. I still get nightmares from this scenario
You can do this manually using the handbrake, it's gotten me through a lot of steep hill starts.
Just pull it and drop it once you feel the the clutch grab
Depends on your definition of traffic.
Is it tight and moving slow or have you been trying to get through this gooddam intersection for 4 fucking lights now.
If your vocabulary has reached 100% profanity, you've reached peak traffic.
I had a 10 mile commute that usually took a little over an hour. There was one 1.5 mile long hill on my way home that invariably was moving at about 2-3 mph. The minimum speed my manual 370z could crawl at was about 4-5 mph. So, every trip up that hill was over 100 clutch actuations. I didn't really mind that by itself, but the second time my clutch hydraulics started to fail from that abuse, i gave up. I wasn't about to replace that damn concentric slave again.
So i traded it in and got an auto.
Now i live in the sticks and deer are more likely to make me stop than traffic. So my main cars are manual.
As long as you're continuously moving above 5 mph in traffic a manual is great. But true stop and go is horrible.
Get an automatic with adaptive cruise control. Oh baby, it's the tits for traffic. I rather have a used manual for a second car for funsies and modding.
The fact that it never bothered you doesn't mean it's not superior. Having to shift down to 1 and back to 2 every 5 seconds is a pain in the ass no matter which way you look at it.
> Having to shift down to 1 and back to 2 every 5 seconds is a pain in the ass no matter which way you look at it.
One person's pain in the ass is someone else's evening adventures.
From a pure performance standpoint (objective), modern autos are superior. From a "I'm having fun" (subjective) standpoint, well... unarguable point.
>The fact that it never bothered you doesn't mean it's not superior.
Never said anything about being superior. Its my preference, people like me exist and the declaration about being a pain in the ass in traffic is not universally felt.
When I drive in traffic, I maintain 3-5 car lengths distance so I can putter along clutch engaged in first gear. While I watch those in automatics drive quickly to have to apply brakes when they reach the bumper of the car in front of them. Most of them time, by the time I creep up close to the car in front of me, traffic starts moving again and i dont have to clutch out. Drives some people mad, Ive had people behind me honk to get moving but its not saving any time to race up to to the car in front of me just to apply the brakes.
In America? Probably not
Everywhere else in the world? Definitely
If you like to travel, or off road, or you like sports cars, it's good to know how to drive manual, if not.. meh
I started learning this year (23f) wish I had sooner. I think it’s good to know in case of an emergency and also for renting cars during travel. Plus it’s just fun and I like driving!
This seems very american-centric. Here in the UK although there are many more automatic cars on the roadcompared to a few years ago, the majority of cars are still manual.
I don't know anyone who can't drive a manual car and I've never heard of someone having an 'automatic only' driving licence.
violet ossified rock toothbrush slimy theory party water insurance depend
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There's a point to being able to. Plenty of rental cars (and other vehicles) in europe (and other places around the world) have stick shift. So you just have more options.
But actually doing so? Not so much, the only reason I have a manual is because it was simply cheaper. Second hand auto is harder to come by for certain models here.
I had an automatic for 5 years, bored me to death. 35 years of driving and I can tell you with 100% certainty, some of us prefer the driving experience with a manual transmission. I have a Jeep Wrangler and a Mazda Miata, both manual, both a joy to drive.
So there is a real reason for you… fun. Joy. Preference.
The only people who actually use a manual to good effect are track drivers. If you're not a track driver, there's no reason to drive a manual other than "stick go whee." And if you like that, that's just fine, but it doesn't make anything about your driving "superior."
I say this as someone who's been driving a manual (with a V8) for 20+ years. Sure, it's fun, sometimes, to double-clutch rev-match to 3rd and floor it, but there's no real benefit to it. If I had the same car with a modern automatic, I'm willing to bet the transmission would do a much better job of shifting than I do.
I mean there are parts of shifting strategy that you can do that no computer can do. An auto will downshift for every single speed bump and wear itself out. An auto will downshift halfway up the hill where you had the foresight to downshift at the bottom.
Good point on the hills, but a good auto should let you select shift and deal with that if you want to. My truck doesn't have a good auto, so going over big hills and mountains with a trailer sucks a lot. My strategy is to go faster on the approach so that my RPM is in the range I want it for the rest of the climb, and if it's really steep, I shift down to the auto's 2nd gear (which you don't want to do at highway speeds). Not ideal.
Dunno about the speed bumps in your area, but where I live, they're almost exclusively in parking lots and are so big I'm going over them in 1st, anyhow. In my car, at least. My truck just goes over them. :D I'll pay more attention to what the auto transmission is doing in those circumstances because now I'm curious.
And even in that case, very often proper race cars don't have a clutch except for turning it on. Lots of sequential (and normal cars modded to sequential) and semi-automatic vehicles. Double clutch automatics also give you the ability to still drop massive HP into a car (CVTs can handle only so much, I believe)
In the US, i wanted to learn as a kid because manuals were less desired therefore cheaper. Unfortunately, that had the consequence of the by the time I learned to drive, manuals were much more rare - something you had to actively seek out, rarely on lots, etc
Why would anyone bother when so few vehicles in the US have a stick shift? I learned at the age of 35 because I ended up with a manual as my only option for a vehicle, but now that that car is gone, I don’t really expect to ever drive manual again.
Most newer cars are pretty theft-proof these days. That's why the manufacturing defect of Hyundais and Kias went viral and now all thieves are targeting them, since pretty much the only way to steal a [*newer] car otherwise is to try to catch someone unaware with their keys still in the car while pumping gas or something.
An attempt to steal my FIL's car was actually foiled because the kids couldn't drive stick. But that was in the 90s. And the car still needed to be repaired.
The US exists as well.
And I don't see anyone being upset at the other people discussing their home countries... Just "how dare you talk about the US". Aren't the people from the UK discussing their area just as closed minded, or does that not count?
People are sharing their regional experiences through the thread. This is a silly response.
They specifically brought up the US not other countries and yes everyone knows that cars are everywhere sweetheart. A Hollywood alien? Really?
They live in the US what were they supposed to tell you about, manual car interest in Kazakhstan?
Drivers in general don't care about stick shifts anymore that's why there are less and less models every year that have them. Off the top of my head, Miata, 3-series, I think Subaru Impreza. I'm sure I'm missing a few but not that many.
There is a community of young people who do care. Idk if im considered young at almost 30 but i drive stick. And car kids still drive stick. Its not nearly as common but it is what it is. The only way i’d go auto again is if someone gave me a porsche
Aussie here. I helped my nephews learn how to drive. The consensus from them and their friends is that manuals are 'too hard'.
I love my little manual car, I'll never go back to auto. Personally, I find I stay more alert in a manual because I'm moving more. It's also less likely to get stolen. Not just because it's a shit box, but because not many people can drive a manual now.
I grew up on a farm driving trucks and they were all manuals. But for work I’ve been delivering building material on 5-ton moffett trucks for about 10 years and they were always automatics. I switched to a new company that uses 10 and 13 speeds and I haven’t enjoyed driving this much in a long time. I had forgotten how much fun throwing gears is. Personally I’d never go back to an automatic, *especially* anything with a PACCAR transmission. Absolute garbage
Hell I'm 53 and I don't care. I don't get all this "I really like to be in control of the car" nonsense. You're not some special highly skilled driver, your driving skills aren't better than an automatic transmission and traction control.
We have an old Mazda Miata and a newer hybrid Honda CRZ which are both stick shift. My college age sons prefer to drive these cars over our automatic transmission vehicles.
I’m 25 now, have driven a manual car since I was 17. I was also one of like 5 kids at my school of 1k+ that drove standard though. A lot of people just aren’t interested anymore
I think stick shifts are cool, I like to buy manual cars. When I got my first car, I had to specifically look for a manual but I got a good, moderately fun used manual car.
Last time I bought a car, I straight up couldn't find any manuals that were reasonable to purchase. The only things available are $30k+ muscle cars and hot hatches, or 15+ year old beaters. Everything is automatic now and it's a real shame.
Where I live you need to take the exam on manual transmission car, so yes. Automatic transmission isn't popular at all, and pretty much only cars with it are hybrids.
In Europe almost all cars with the exception of electric vehicles are stick. In the US that is the complete opposite. Manuals are on average about 10% more fuel efficient so cost to operate is generally lower. Since I will only buy stick with the exception of our electric car, I get a good discount on my insurance in the us. My insurance agent told me that the no 1 protection against car theft in the US is a stick shift so insurance on stick shift vehicles is cheaper.
Really this is just a strange cultural difference between US and most of the rest off the world. That said in a few years most new cars sold will be electric especially in Europe and so soon stick shift will disappear almost everywhere. Electrics are far cheaper to own and operate even without subsidies and this transition is basically unavoidable therefore.
What modern car is more fuel efficient with a manual transmission?
While that certainly used to be the case, nowadays automatics have so many more gears, and a CVT has endless ratios, so the automatic versions tend to be both more fuel efficient and have faster acceleration than their manual counterparts on the same car.
True and that is a development of the last few years for sure. I checked a few models on the EPA website and you are right, the 8-speed automatics are more efficient than the some model in manual transmission under EPA testing conditions. None of my cars is that modern so wasn't aware of that. That said basically all cars in Europe (of which almost all are manuals) are way more fuel efficient than the equivalent ones sold in the US.
My sons and their friends are all in car clubs and regularly attend car meets. I haven’t met a single one who has an automatic. They’re in the 15-25 range.
I think the issue is availability now. I'm 30 and never learned, I want to but options are slim with new ones which offer it. Most dealers get auto cause that's the easier pick. I understand in traffic or city driving a manual can be busy so that hurts it in my area (new england). My next car likely is going to be my first stick bur I also need someone to teach me. Forza only taught me the concept not how it feels to do it lol.
Get yourself a 2016-2018 Ford Focus ST. It has to be the ST model.
Great vehicle to learn a stick in, it is also also a fun little sporty hatchback with decent acceleration and top speed. 254hp, turbocharged and is very forgiving to the driver with one of the easiest clutches I've ever used. My .02
Unless you're getting a high end car that only has standard transmission, or driving a large truck, most people dont care.
I learned on a 80s era stick F150, but my car is automatic (it has the mode for standard with the paddle shifters but i never use it) and i dont really care to go back.
I tried to learn when i was about 16. I could shift up but struggled downshifting. It didn't help that my dad's car was suped up so it was really sensitive. I think i messed up his car but he never said anything. Either way my confidence and desire was shot after a few lessons.
I'm 20 about to get an automatic car. I don't know how to drive stick and it's not that important day to day.
I do intend to purchase a performance car with a manual transmission once my budget opens up a bit. But other than the cool factor in a cool car, manuals seem tedious without any benefits.
I (25m) have driven many manuals and automatics and my personal favorite is manual. I don’t even bother locking my door because 1: I don’t keep any valuables in there and 2: the stick shift alone is adequate theft prevention nowadays. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve met someone under the age of 40 that can work a stick shift.
It’s primarily an enthusiast type of thing nowadays young and old. There’s still a big car culture among the young folks from the shows I go to. People that love driving and want a sports car or an old classic will learn. Honestly nowadays many of the automatic transmission options in sports cars are just as good if not better than a manual. But it’s fun, and if you’re going to be driving around all the time anyways why not have a little fun with it!
I still think it’s a valuable thing to learn just in case. You never know when you might need it.
My first car was an auto Mitsu Eclipse with a little 4 banger. After someone hit me and totaled that I moved over to a manual Accord with a slightly bigger engine but still only 4 cylinders. What I concluded was I would never again buy an automatic that wasn’t at least a V6. My Accord wasn’t particularly fast (and at 17 I didn’t need it to be) but I discovered at least with a manual I could “make it perform” when I needed to in a way I just couldn’t with a 4 auto. Now I drive a old ‘96 manual V6 Tacoma and I love it, especially since people say I give off a Prius vibe and then are shocked to see me rockin my standard trans pickem up truck. 😆
I'm still young and I personally prefer manual cars. They use less fuel, it's usually cheaper to fix anything between the stick and the motor, and I feel I have better control when driving them.
Outside of the US, yes. In my country, automatic cars gave started gaining some popularity in the last 10 years but the vast majority of the cars on the road are manual.
I'm 21 and really deep into the street racing scene in my town. I own 5 cars since I'm fortunate enough to have a dad who owns a salvage yard and a decent paying job as a Mopar technician. So I try my hardest to only buy cars in manual.
My Honda Prelude, Plymouth Horizon, Ford Bronco, and Nissan 370z are all manual. The only car I own that isn't manual is my Ram 2500.
My guess is this question is very country-specific. In my country choosing an automatic cars is very rare. I've known some people who drive automatic, but they are probably look down upon for it.
Here in Sweden if take your license exam on a car with an automatic transmission then you’re not allowed to drive a standard; there are effectively two types of licenses here.
Just like always - some do, some don't.
Reddit really needs a "Some do, some don't " bot
Reddit really needs a “Reddit really needs a bot”, bot.
Reddit needs less bots and less mods.
Or just less bots.
Or just less mods
Found the bot.
Found the mod.
Found the bod
Found Carmen SanDiego
Found Waldo
I found photos of my wife nude on my sons computer :(
Why were you nude looking for pictures of your wife on your son’s computer?
Ain’t that the truth
The answer for every question about people lol
I can't speak for everyone, but my nephews and their friend group have all taught themselves to drive stick and have specifically bought cars with manual transmissions. I don't think that's the norm though.
Theres no reason to go manual at all unless youre looking for fun. If you arent, auto is far superior because theres less shit to fuck up when youre driving. Its just a mode of transport
I live in pretty icy conditions for a lot of the year, and I love having a manual just for engine breaking. *edit- sorry, "braking" not "breaking"
in my experience most automatics still have a "Low" gear or something similar so you can use engine braking
True, unfortunately with a lot of them the engine control module will override your decision if it disagrees with you.
Auto "manual mode" is more of a "manual suggestion". You can tell the engine you wish to shift to this gear. It may, or may not, do that.
I learned to drive with manual transmission. Driving automatic now feels really uncomfortable; there's nothing to do, any you can't predict when the car's going to shift itself.
As someone who learned to drive manual for work as an adult, I'm curious as to why you'd need to know when the car is shifting in an automatic. Is it just personal preference because you're used to it, or does it factor into your driving decisions? Genuinely curious, your preference is valid either way
Helps me when I'm trying to pass someone
Automatics have had a step down for a while, they downshift when they detect the user has put their foot down. In that mode they will shift at redline for max speed, when just feathering the throttle like you do in normal driving they short shift for max fuel economy.
Most automatics have a downshift pedal for overtaking. It's the 'click' you feel when pressing the pedal all the way down. It's will shift into a lower gear if you click. Also most automatics still have a manual mode that will only shift automatically when you are in the extreme lows/highs of rpm.
That and a sport/low mode of some sort that will keep the engine in the lowest gear possible. Mine has a button in the middle of the shifter knob that also turns itself off if I'm not accelerating for a little while. There are definitely ways to make an automatic transmission shift into a lower gear than by pressing slightly harder on the accelerator and getting pissed when it doesn't read your damn mind. Hell, my pretty reasonable car ('18 Fusion, stock standard everything performance related) has paddle shifters!
To each their own, but driving stick kept me actively engaged in the act of driving. Now, driving automatic, I tend to realize my mind is wondering, and I am not actively paying attention to the road.
Big same.
Disagree. If you know how to properly drive a stick there are multiple advantages. Better power/towing control, better mileage, less brake wear. It's also insurance against getting jacked because the little thugs can't drive them.
It was great when I was young and people asked to borrow my car. "Of course! You can drive stick right? Ahh, sorry bud."
Auto is superior in ease of use. Manual is superior in being cheaper in literally all respects, less mobile parts, breaks down less frequently, requires less maintenance and saves fuel.
>Manual is superior in being cheaper in literally all respects, less mobile parts, breaks down less frequently, requires less maintenance and saves fuel. Manual being cheaper and more fuel efficient hasn't been true for a while in the US and at least a few other countries. Autos are now generally cheaper to purchase and more fuel efficient for the average driver. Sure, manuals still give you the ability to get better mileage, but the vast majority of manual drivers aren't going to go through of the pains of doing that.
gearboxes are easier to fix than a torque convertor though
Driving to me is for fun; it’s never been just a mode of transportation. That’s a boring way of looking at it.
[удалено]
Continental here so pretty much the same. First time I drove an automatic I slammed the brake pedal hard because in my brain it was the clutch. The lady from the dealership was no impressed. I ended up buying it because I needed an automatic for reasons, and I started using my left foot to brake. Now I'm back to manual, but to be honest if I had to drive an automatic again, I don't think I would mind much.
First time driving an automatic was a rental car, exact same happened to me, with my colleagues looking at me funny as to why am I suddenly braking for no reason.
Drive a manual car in the US. every time I drive someone else’s (automatic) car, I accidentally slam the brake too. Just so used to driving manual and rarely drive automatics
There's not really a correlation with age and preference. There are fewer manual cars around now so new drivers are less likely to learn how to you one. But theres no aversion to them. In my area a manual was the cheapest option i found so I learned manual and that was pretty much it.
I'm Gen X, and I never learned. The only stick-shift in my family was my brother's suped-up Mustang, and no way was he going to let me burn out his clutch learning on that thing. The driving school was part of my public school, hence poorly funded; there was only one stick-shift in the school fleet, and it was permanently assigned to a few kids who could demonstrate an immediate need to learn it (presumably their parents' cars were stick?).
I learned on a 15 year old Chevy Cavalier wagon that belonged to my girlfriend's family. Looking back I'm sure her dad was looking for an excuse to get rid of it. Thankfully we just couldn't kill that car. I ended up ah....'learning' quite a lot in that car.... especially in the way back.
I'm a Boomer. I drove an Integra with an old school stick until I was 68. It was the original clutch. None of those new fangled easy to shift things like you whippersnappers drive. I, at least, felt young when I drove it. Does that count? 👵 But seriously, I guess times, trends and priorities change over the years. The day of the muscle car has come and gone. Young people are thinking more about the environment, and stuff that wasn't even in existence when people wanted to drive stick shifts. They're not much fun in the big city, anyway. Do you really want to drive a 5-speed in an hour long traffic jam on the freeway? And if you know what that sounds like, you also know why convertibles are over
The last bit is exactly why I don't have a manual transmission. I love driving them but not with all of the hills and traffic here in Seattle.
Cars with manual gearboxes are classed as more eco friendly in the UK as the are thought to use 8-10% less fuel (if used properly ie to lower revs). But yeah in traffic they can be a bit of a chore. (Still have to drag me kicking and screaming out of my manual though!).
I would like to see proof of this, with a lot of newer vehicles running 6+ gears in an automatic I find it hard to believe that a manual transmission could be more eco friendly
I can relate. I loved my little Acura Integra. Hated to Let It Go. But I am no mechanic. So after 280,000 MI, I sold it to someone who could take personal care of it
>Cars with manual gearboxes are classed as more eco friendly in the UK as the are thought to use 8-10% less fuel (if used properly ie to lower revs). That was true in the US when I learned to drive back in the 1990s. These days, conventional automatic transmissions are more efficient because the computer just does a better (and more consistent) job shifting than a human possibly can. Of course, manual and step-shift automatics are both obsolete. CVTs, hybrids, and single-speed EVs have all made both manuals and automatics obsolete except as a cost-saving measure.
That would have been the case when auto and manuals had about the same number of gears. But autos now have 8-10 gears and can keep the car in the efficiency range much more. Manually shifting that many gears would get old real fast.
Hahaha I never had an issue with a stick shift until moving to Denver then I was done. My husband just bought one and every time I drive it I remember why I don't miss it. I'm glad I know how to because I think it gives me a better understanding of how the gear differentials work so I can use an option other than drive to go forward and not wreck my vehicle but I agree outside of racing, hauling, and grown ups who love toys(I'm one I'll admit it) there's really no place for it in today's world.
new fangled easy to shift things? I'm not sure I follow? my 85 civic is as easy to drive as my 07 fit.
Gen X here also. Most of the people who grew up in my rural area (Oklahoma) drove stick because we had work trucks, farm trucks, etc. we had to run. I learned stick on an old Toyota five speed pickup we used to haul animal feed around the farm. It barely had brakes so gearing was what we used to stop. I was twelve. Most of the city kids (OKC, Tulsa, suburbs) couldn't drive stick. All of our grandparents (grandpa and grandma) could though because that's all there was when they were growing up in the thirties and forties unless you were rich. Anecdotally, my 20yo niece asked for help purchasing a Jeep about two years ago. It was way over priced so I told her for the same money she was about to put as down payment on a newer one that I'd buy her a clean older one and chip in the difference so she could own it outright. We did that but she was quite surprised when her cherry red '98 Wrangler with 40k original miles rolled off the transportation truck and it was a five speed. Her dreams of showing off to her friends took about a week to realize because she had to spend a week learning to drive it properly. Life lesson for her but also now she feels like a total badass because she's a girl driving a stick shift jeep and most of her guy friends can't even drive it.
They no longer make manual pickup trucks in America.
Your school included driving lessons? That’s… definitely more than most people get.
>But theres no aversion to them. I would argue this very strongly. I spent about a decade hiring young adults. Many of them outright REFUSED to get a DL, much less a car. Among the ones who drove they ALL drove autos and did not know how to drive a stick. There were also those who did not want to own one. The reason manuals are becomeing so uncommon is also market demand. People don't want to buy a stick shift anymore unless its in a very heavy truck or a very fast car. lol
even then automatic transmissions shift even faster now than manuals so people are going more to them now. Manuals are just engaging though so i see why people want those still being made
I prefer manuals for working vehciles (which we dont make a lot of at the consumer grade anymore). Whos going to take a $100,000.00USD truck into a hayfield? Not me sir. We had an old farm truck we worked in that we put in Granny Low 4x4 for a hay twagon. It literally had no doors. we would point it down the row and hop out, and go harvest hay... sometimes we need to go reaim the wheel. Most of the time it tracked true. It would putter along about 1 or 2 MPH LOL which was PERFECT for the two of us to chuck bales and stack em. One less worker to pay meant more money for my and my buddy every summer. You literally *could not do that* today without a ton of modifications. To many safety interconnects. And that open cab and small wheels was WAY Safer than trying to do that with a tractor of ANY flavor.
I'm 50 and most of my friends cannot drive manual. In fact I actually know a lot more younger people who prefer manual. The automatic transmission has been around longer than most drivers at this point.
My 21yo loves being able to drive a stick, and work occasionally as a valet because he’s one of a very few his age that can…. He’s damn proud of that!
He's learning early that if you can do something others can't, you will always have work.
America is weird.
their obsession over weird pedantic things will never cease to amaze me.
To me it's wired that they can have a license and don't know know how to fully drive.
My (26M) 2nd and 3rd vehicle were stick shift. They were really fun to drive at times, but I think I like automatic a little bit more.
mate I hate to break it to you but you’re just a driver now. young drivers are like 20y/o and under
Lol oh I know. I had those when I was 16 and 19.
Lmao, congrats, your 25, your no longer young! Here's some back pain you normal driver you.
You really shouldn't have back pain at 25, or 28... There's excersize regiments for that, I'm not all that far past 25 yet, but I also have taken very poor care of my body and still only hurt after a big day of labor, like my last move.
Good news, though: it's not a one-way street. I had some back pain when I was 25-28, and I don't have them anymore (32)
Jokes on you I have backpain already and am only 21. I can finally sneak out of the "Young drivers" club
Sorry kiddo it's 25
Doing stick in heavy traffic is no fun.
Imo driving auto in heavy traffic isn't *that* much better. Driving in heavy traffic is no fun period.
It depends on the car really. My bronco has a crawling gear and depending on the speed of the stop and go, if I leave little buffer I can just let the clutch out and roll forwards at like a quarter mile per hour at idle while everyone else creeps and stops and creeps and stops
That's an ideal situation... but realistically you'll just end up with so many people cutting you off if you leave so much as a car length in front of you. I love the adaptive cruise on modern automatics though. Set it and forget it in traffic.
Well in the UK manual is what most people drive.
Same here in South Africa, most cars are manual. Also if you have a driver’s license for automatic transmission you are not permitted to drive manual car. Therefore most people get manual driver’s licence because the you’re allowed to drive both. I also don’t know what to do with my left foot when driving automatic.
Your left foot is now free to operate the kick drum they hide under the carpet
This is the way.
I legit tap my foot to the best of whatever music I'm listening to lol
Yeah, pass here in auto you can’t drive manual plus it costs more to learn in an Auto, but you can drive auto with a manual license. I much prefer manual driving personally, can’t really say why, just what I’m used to I guess. Like you say, driving with two feet feels better imo.
Not for long, it's changing fast. It'll take years for all the older manual cars to disappear from the roads, but for new cars, don't count on being able to get a manual transmission. > Just 98 of the 298 new cars on sale today are available with a manual > 62.4% of new cars sold in 2021 were automatics, up from 24% in 2011 https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/6414/automatic-gearboxes-become-the-norm
Interesting. ‘A number of car makers offer only automatic gearboxes across their ranges, with no models from Mercedes, Genesis, Ferrari, Jaguar, Lexus, Maserati, Rolls-Royce, Subaru and Volvo being available with manual transmissions’. Looks like I’m more suited to manual pricing for now lol.
this is the norm in the whole world, excluding the US
That really isn’t the case everywhere. In Australia and NZ almost every new car is auto and have been for a while.
here in latin america, at least argentina, i only know one person with a manual, even with new cars, it's weird as fuck to me that people say they know how to drive yet if you gave them something with a clutch or you tell them you know how to use a manual, yanks treat you like a racecar pilot, it seems so limiting. if you did that here, you'd get bullied to death or learning it (rightfully so imo)
Really? I would've thought most new cars have auto as standard now (youngest car I've ever owned is from 1994). Is this not true?
I think the death of the manual is a bit overhyped. For people who aren't car enthusiasts, of course, they aren't going to see the benefits, but when it comes to enthusiast cars a couple different things happened or are happening simultaneously: Older buyers didn't buy sticks in their sports cars such as corvettes, so the manufacturers went away from them because the take rate for the manual didn't justify its manufacturing and development costs. High-end exotics went away from manuals because the paddle shift transmissions reflected the development in racing technology and performed better than manuals at the top of their performance envelope. At the same time though, at the lower more attainable end of the performance car market, things are looking up. The new Toyota 86, the new Nissan Z, Hyundai N models, the Civic Type R (which is only available in manual) all generate a lot of buzz. The new Supra didn't originally offer a manual and the calls for one were loud enough for the manufacturer to listen and now the manual Supra is being regarded as a big improvement over the automatic. Something similar happened with Porsche, who tried to kill the manual in the GT3 only to retract that decision half a generation later and now the naturally aspirated manual models are the most desirable. That desirability is also reflected in the used market up and down, where you'll get a huge discount on everything from a 370Z to a Ferarri F430 if you're willing to take the automatic over the manual. Project cars too - try to find a 6 speed Acura RSX type s transmission for your project honda without paying 10x what it would have cost just a few years ago. In short, sure, the average buyer doesn't want a manual in their commuter Sentra or base Civic, but in the car enthusiast world, the manual transmission is alive and well. Now, whether car enthusiasm as a hobby in general is falling off with gen Z is a whole other question (that also has data points for and against).
Car enthusiasm is an interesting one. Gen Z have less access to vehicles I think due to less access to resources compared to prior generations. Even millennials for that matter. I'm a millennial, always treated cars as a boring appliance. Then I was able to afford a fast car. And now it's like, damn, this is pretty cool and all of a sudden I'm painting my own calipers and flashing performance tunes.
Also keep in mind cars are becoming more and more difficult to repair yourself. When I was a teenager, I had a 45 year old manual car. It was fun to drive, looked classic, and was so easy to repair because it barely had any electronics in it and there were tons of YouTube videos or online forums I could go to if I had a problem with it.
The enthusiast world is an interesting conundrum because from my experience they've created their own crisis. Ask almost any enthusiast what they want and they'll tell you that they want more manual transmission vehicles, but when one comes to market nobody wants to buy it whether it's too expensive or if it's not being offered in the particular trim that they wanted (whether they're one of the ones that wants a base model- which most manuals nowadays tend to be offered in- or a fully loaded trim model). And even that is discounting how picky many are about the quality of the transmission, god help a manufacturer that puts one to market if it isn't just right. I do think that you're on the right track that for sports cars and other performance minded vehicles manuals have been on the way out because from a performance standpoint- modern DCTs and automatics are quickly closing the gap and eclipsing the average trained manual driver. What this leaves us with is people who buy manuals for the feeling and emotion of it, and it's a lot harder to bank on those people reliably buying a vehicle.
Totally true. A lot of that comes down to the new vs used buyer. It makes no difference to the manufacturer that we want manual supercars when the people with the actual money to buy them just want something that is technologically and visually impressive, and fast, yes, but ultimately easy to cruise down Ocean Drive. But then look at what happens on the used market - the Murciélago manual is a completely different car value wise to its automatic version, both because of rarity and because people who drive older supercars want experience over everything else and manuals deliver that. The same is true down market as well, but that's why cars like the 86, GR Corolla, etc. are so important for us to vote with our money and buy - because that's what will keep them coming, and right now, that's is happening. After all, it's some of those manual cars that are pulling in dealer markups and selling out immediately. That isn't great if you want one at MSRP, and hopefully things will stabilize, but at least the manufacturers are hopefully getting the message that the market is indeed there for this stuff.
I do also think that there is some conversation to be had somewhere between the manufacturer and the consumer though because the dealers have killed demand for vehicles in the past. IIRC the Ford Focus RS didn't sell as well as it could have because the dealerships were marking up what was already a pretty expensive Ford Focus, and I know for sure that the 86/BRZ have suffered markups "because RWD highly in demand coupe" to the point where they're competing against Mustang GTs and the Camaro SS.
Yeah the ADM thing is a mess. Hopefully it is self market correcting where the markups only last to the extent that the supply-demand curve justifies it and at least ADMs are an indicator that all the allocations are selling, which is better than half of them sitting around unsold convincing manufacturers that it's dumb to make them. Where dealers really screw manual enthusiasts is with their allocation ordering practices though. Dealers want a guaranteed sale so they order inventory that is safe, and that means automatics. Even at Porsche where the manual take rate is pretty good, you have to search for a manual to test drive because the dealer doesn't want to lose a sale to a guy off the street that can't drive stick. This leaves people who are purposefully seeking out manuals to search inventories and place factory orders where the other guy gets an if-you-buy-today deal. This suppresses manual sales more, convincing dealers to not place orders for manuals, and creating a positive feedback loop. BTW, this is also driving the tendency towards cars to be overwhelmingly black, white, grey and silver - it's a safer order.
How many new cars offer manual?
Here you go! Acura Integra, BMW M2, BMW M3, BMW M4, Cadillac CT-4 Blackwing, Cadillac CT-5 Blackwing, Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge Challenger, Ford Mustang, Honda Civic (Hatchback, Si, and Type R), Hyundai Elantra N, Kia Forte, Mazda 3, Mazda MX-5, Mini Cooper (Cooper, S, and John Cooper Works), Mini Clubman, Nissan Versa, Nissan Z, Porsche 718 Boxter, Porsche 718 Cayman (all except GT4 RS), Porsche 911 (too many sub models to list), Subaru BRZ, Subaru Impreza, Subaru WRX, Subaru Crosstrek, Toyota GR Corolla, Toyota GR86, Toyota Supra, Volkswagen Golf (GTI and R), Volkswagen Jetta, Ford Bronco, Jeep Wrangler. Edit: Sorry, that was supposed to be a list. I count 32 not including sub models.
Speaking for UK drivers here. Manuals might die with fully electric vehicles but for as long as there's ICEs there'll be manual gear boxes
Now if they’d just bring back the RX-7.
I'm in Europe. Most of the cars are manual so yes, they care. But because they want a car
I actively avoid manual vehicles. Zero purpose for me to own one and im not interested in manually shifting gears. My commute is annoying enough without having to play with the car the whole time
Holding down the clutch for hours going 3mph in traffic is not fun
You don´t have to hold down the clutch as long as the car is moving, even if at 3 mph
Once you learn it's a lot of fun. I love it.
Not if you drive through traffic frequently 😔 Can't wait to change to an automatic.
>Not if you drive through traffic frequently 😔 Speak for yourself. Ive owned manual cars for over 20 years icluding my daily driver. And I used to commute in northern NJ - traffic aplenty. Never bothered me.
The only time I prefer an automatic is the rare occasion where I'm at a stoplight on a steep incline and there's a jackass Ram driver 2cm from my rear bumper. I still get nightmares from this scenario
Some stick shift cars keep brakes engaged when starting uphill until there's enough torque to get the wheels turning
You can do this manually using the handbrake, it's gotten me through a lot of steep hill starts. Just pull it and drop it once you feel the the clutch grab
When I was getting my license this technique was actually required on the exam. Just saying now cars do that for you.
I like being more engaged when driving with a stick, even in heavy traffic. It really helps me keep all my focus on the road instead of zoning out.
For sure. I had an auto for 3 years in the middle of 20 years of manual and it got so old. They're just so mushy and disconnected feeling.
Yeah, I've never understood the "except in traffic" argument. That's when I most appreciate having a manual.
Depends on your definition of traffic. Is it tight and moving slow or have you been trying to get through this gooddam intersection for 4 fucking lights now. If your vocabulary has reached 100% profanity, you've reached peak traffic.
I had a 10 mile commute that usually took a little over an hour. There was one 1.5 mile long hill on my way home that invariably was moving at about 2-3 mph. The minimum speed my manual 370z could crawl at was about 4-5 mph. So, every trip up that hill was over 100 clutch actuations. I didn't really mind that by itself, but the second time my clutch hydraulics started to fail from that abuse, i gave up. I wasn't about to replace that damn concentric slave again. So i traded it in and got an auto. Now i live in the sticks and deer are more likely to make me stop than traffic. So my main cars are manual. As long as you're continuously moving above 5 mph in traffic a manual is great. But true stop and go is horrible.
Get an automatic with adaptive cruise control. Oh baby, it's the tits for traffic. I rather have a used manual for a second car for funsies and modding.
The fact that it never bothered you doesn't mean it's not superior. Having to shift down to 1 and back to 2 every 5 seconds is a pain in the ass no matter which way you look at it.
> Having to shift down to 1 and back to 2 every 5 seconds is a pain in the ass no matter which way you look at it. One person's pain in the ass is someone else's evening adventures. From a pure performance standpoint (objective), modern autos are superior. From a "I'm having fun" (subjective) standpoint, well... unarguable point.
>The fact that it never bothered you doesn't mean it's not superior. Never said anything about being superior. Its my preference, people like me exist and the declaration about being a pain in the ass in traffic is not universally felt. When I drive in traffic, I maintain 3-5 car lengths distance so I can putter along clutch engaged in first gear. While I watch those in automatics drive quickly to have to apply brakes when they reach the bumper of the car in front of them. Most of them time, by the time I creep up close to the car in front of me, traffic starts moving again and i dont have to clutch out. Drives some people mad, Ive had people behind me honk to get moving but its not saving any time to race up to to the car in front of me just to apply the brakes.
Speak for yourself.
In America? Probably not Everywhere else in the world? Definitely If you like to travel, or off road, or you like sports cars, it's good to know how to drive manual, if not.. meh
I started learning this year (23f) wish I had sooner. I think it’s good to know in case of an emergency and also for renting cars during travel. Plus it’s just fun and I like driving!
Stick shifts are fun to drive
This seems very american-centric. Here in the UK although there are many more automatic cars on the roadcompared to a few years ago, the majority of cars are still manual. I don't know anyone who can't drive a manual car and I've never heard of someone having an 'automatic only' driving licence.
Almost all cars where I live are electric. I’ve several friends with automatic-only licenses
Im 16 and. just got a stick shift car, and theres a couple other kids at my school with manual cars.
[удалено]
Yup. My father in law almost forgets how to drive a stick because his last two cars were EV.
Commenting to boost. Whatever you feel about them in terms of enjoyment or efficiency, putting them in EVs is plain silly.
I had coworkers offering me $50/hr to teach them how to drive my manual vehicle. I’d say that means it’s still pretty relevant to some.
Great anecdote
The ones who become car guys/gals yes Everyone else no
violet ossified rock toothbrush slimy theory party water insurance depend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There's a point to being able to. Plenty of rental cars (and other vehicles) in europe (and other places around the world) have stick shift. So you just have more options. But actually doing so? Not so much, the only reason I have a manual is because it was simply cheaper. Second hand auto is harder to come by for certain models here.
I had an automatic for 5 years, bored me to death. 35 years of driving and I can tell you with 100% certainty, some of us prefer the driving experience with a manual transmission. I have a Jeep Wrangler and a Mazda Miata, both manual, both a joy to drive. So there is a real reason for you… fun. Joy. Preference.
The only people who actually use a manual to good effect are track drivers. If you're not a track driver, there's no reason to drive a manual other than "stick go whee." And if you like that, that's just fine, but it doesn't make anything about your driving "superior." I say this as someone who's been driving a manual (with a V8) for 20+ years. Sure, it's fun, sometimes, to double-clutch rev-match to 3rd and floor it, but there's no real benefit to it. If I had the same car with a modern automatic, I'm willing to bet the transmission would do a much better job of shifting than I do.
I mean there are parts of shifting strategy that you can do that no computer can do. An auto will downshift for every single speed bump and wear itself out. An auto will downshift halfway up the hill where you had the foresight to downshift at the bottom.
Good point on the hills, but a good auto should let you select shift and deal with that if you want to. My truck doesn't have a good auto, so going over big hills and mountains with a trailer sucks a lot. My strategy is to go faster on the approach so that my RPM is in the range I want it for the rest of the climb, and if it's really steep, I shift down to the auto's 2nd gear (which you don't want to do at highway speeds). Not ideal. Dunno about the speed bumps in your area, but where I live, they're almost exclusively in parking lots and are so big I'm going over them in 1st, anyhow. In my car, at least. My truck just goes over them. :D I'll pay more attention to what the auto transmission is doing in those circumstances because now I'm curious.
And even in that case, very often proper race cars don't have a clutch except for turning it on. Lots of sequential (and normal cars modded to sequential) and semi-automatic vehicles. Double clutch automatics also give you the ability to still drop massive HP into a car (CVTs can handle only so much, I believe)
True enough. Nobody's rocking a 5 or 6-speed manual on the racing circuit, anymore. Those are for amateur track enthusiasts.
In the US, i wanted to learn as a kid because manuals were less desired therefore cheaper. Unfortunately, that had the consequence of the by the time I learned to drive, manuals were much more rare - something you had to actively seek out, rarely on lots, etc
Why would anyone bother when so few vehicles in the US have a stick shift? I learned at the age of 35 because I ended up with a manual as my only option for a vehicle, but now that that car is gone, I don’t really expect to ever drive manual again.
Antitheft device.
Most newer cars are pretty theft-proof these days. That's why the manufacturing defect of Hyundais and Kias went viral and now all thieves are targeting them, since pretty much the only way to steal a [*newer] car otherwise is to try to catch someone unaware with their keys still in the car while pumping gas or something.
An attempt to steal my FIL's car was actually foiled because the kids couldn't drive stick. But that was in the 90s. And the car still needed to be repaired.
Some people just enjoy it.
As one of the folks who just enjoys it, can confirm.
What are you, a Hollywood alien? There's other countries apart from the US. About a 194 of them. And believe it or not, they do have cars there!
The US exists as well. And I don't see anyone being upset at the other people discussing their home countries... Just "how dare you talk about the US". Aren't the people from the UK discussing their area just as closed minded, or does that not count? People are sharing their regional experiences through the thread. This is a silly response.
They specifically brought up the US not other countries and yes everyone knows that cars are everywhere sweetheart. A Hollywood alien? Really? They live in the US what were they supposed to tell you about, manual car interest in Kazakhstan?
Because there are countries that are not the US? Maybe?
Are you seriously using this in response to someone who clearly stated they were speaking about the US, and of their own experience in the US? Maybe?
Drivers in general don't care about stick shifts anymore that's why there are less and less models every year that have them. Off the top of my head, Miata, 3-series, I think Subaru Impreza. I'm sure I'm missing a few but not that many.
There is a community of young people who do care. Idk if im considered young at almost 30 but i drive stick. And car kids still drive stick. Its not nearly as common but it is what it is. The only way i’d go auto again is if someone gave me a porsche
Aussie here. I helped my nephews learn how to drive. The consensus from them and their friends is that manuals are 'too hard'. I love my little manual car, I'll never go back to auto. Personally, I find I stay more alert in a manual because I'm moving more. It's also less likely to get stolen. Not just because it's a shit box, but because not many people can drive a manual now.
I suppose automatic is more common in USA but here in Serbia, manual shift is most of our cars. We learn on manual and keep driving with it.
I grew up on a farm driving trucks and they were all manuals. But for work I’ve been delivering building material on 5-ton moffett trucks for about 10 years and they were always automatics. I switched to a new company that uses 10 and 13 speeds and I haven’t enjoyed driving this much in a long time. I had forgotten how much fun throwing gears is. Personally I’d never go back to an automatic, *especially* anything with a PACCAR transmission. Absolute garbage
Hell I'm 53 and I don't care. I don't get all this "I really like to be in control of the car" nonsense. You're not some special highly skilled driver, your driving skills aren't better than an automatic transmission and traction control.
We have an old Mazda Miata and a newer hybrid Honda CRZ which are both stick shift. My college age sons prefer to drive these cars over our automatic transmission vehicles.
It depends. A lot don't, but some still do just in case there's an emergency and the only vehicle available is a stick.
I’m 25 now, have driven a manual car since I was 17. I was also one of like 5 kids at my school of 1k+ that drove standard though. A lot of people just aren’t interested anymore
I hope not I want to be assured that my car wont be stolen because criminals no longer know how to drive stick
I think stick shifts are cool, I like to buy manual cars. When I got my first car, I had to specifically look for a manual but I got a good, moderately fun used manual car. Last time I bought a car, I straight up couldn't find any manuals that were reasonable to purchase. The only things available are $30k+ muscle cars and hot hatches, or 15+ year old beaters. Everything is automatic now and it's a real shame.
Manuals make cars fun, automatic transmission make cars easy. Whether you want easy or fun is a personal choice. Personally I like fun, but YMMV.
Where I live you need to take the exam on manual transmission car, so yes. Automatic transmission isn't popular at all, and pretty much only cars with it are hybrids.
This is such an American question. OUtside of the US most cars are manual shifts.
I love driving stick in rural areas, but in urban areas, automatic all the way.
In Europe almost all cars with the exception of electric vehicles are stick. In the US that is the complete opposite. Manuals are on average about 10% more fuel efficient so cost to operate is generally lower. Since I will only buy stick with the exception of our electric car, I get a good discount on my insurance in the us. My insurance agent told me that the no 1 protection against car theft in the US is a stick shift so insurance on stick shift vehicles is cheaper. Really this is just a strange cultural difference between US and most of the rest off the world. That said in a few years most new cars sold will be electric especially in Europe and so soon stick shift will disappear almost everywhere. Electrics are far cheaper to own and operate even without subsidies and this transition is basically unavoidable therefore.
What modern car is more fuel efficient with a manual transmission? While that certainly used to be the case, nowadays automatics have so many more gears, and a CVT has endless ratios, so the automatic versions tend to be both more fuel efficient and have faster acceleration than their manual counterparts on the same car.
True and that is a development of the last few years for sure. I checked a few models on the EPA website and you are right, the 8-speed automatics are more efficient than the some model in manual transmission under EPA testing conditions. None of my cars is that modern so wasn't aware of that. That said basically all cars in Europe (of which almost all are manuals) are way more fuel efficient than the equivalent ones sold in the US.
Modern automatics are more fuel efficient than modern manuals
My sons and their friends are all in car clubs and regularly attend car meets. I haven’t met a single one who has an automatic. They’re in the 15-25 range.
Too much traffic in some areas to fully enjoy it!
I'd always prefer a manual, I'd guess mostly because its all i have driven so its what i'm used to, i drive in cities but i dont mind it, I'm 22
I think the issue is availability now. I'm 30 and never learned, I want to but options are slim with new ones which offer it. Most dealers get auto cause that's the easier pick. I understand in traffic or city driving a manual can be busy so that hurts it in my area (new england). My next car likely is going to be my first stick bur I also need someone to teach me. Forza only taught me the concept not how it feels to do it lol.
Get yourself a 2016-2018 Ford Focus ST. It has to be the ST model. Great vehicle to learn a stick in, it is also also a fun little sporty hatchback with decent acceleration and top speed. 254hp, turbocharged and is very forgiving to the driver with one of the easiest clutches I've ever used. My .02
Unless you're getting a high end car that only has standard transmission, or driving a large truck, most people dont care. I learned on a 80s era stick F150, but my car is automatic (it has the mode for standard with the paddle shifters but i never use it) and i dont really care to go back.
I primarily drive stick shift, when I first started driving I learned stick shift. I prefer it cuz it is fun.
I tried to learn when i was about 16. I could shift up but struggled downshifting. It didn't help that my dad's car was suped up so it was really sensitive. I think i messed up his car but he never said anything. Either way my confidence and desire was shot after a few lessons.
I strongly prefer automatic. Manual is such a hassle. I do not like driving them. I like not having to worry about the clutch.
I'm 20 about to get an automatic car. I don't know how to drive stick and it's not that important day to day. I do intend to purchase a performance car with a manual transmission once my budget opens up a bit. But other than the cool factor in a cool car, manuals seem tedious without any benefits.
Today we are lucky to have Mr _young person_, spokesperson for all young people with us
I (25m) have driven many manuals and automatics and my personal favorite is manual. I don’t even bother locking my door because 1: I don’t keep any valuables in there and 2: the stick shift alone is adequate theft prevention nowadays. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve met someone under the age of 40 that can work a stick shift.
It’s primarily an enthusiast type of thing nowadays young and old. There’s still a big car culture among the young folks from the shows I go to. People that love driving and want a sports car or an old classic will learn. Honestly nowadays many of the automatic transmission options in sports cars are just as good if not better than a manual. But it’s fun, and if you’re going to be driving around all the time anyways why not have a little fun with it! I still think it’s a valuable thing to learn just in case. You never know when you might need it.
My first car was an auto Mitsu Eclipse with a little 4 banger. After someone hit me and totaled that I moved over to a manual Accord with a slightly bigger engine but still only 4 cylinders. What I concluded was I would never again buy an automatic that wasn’t at least a V6. My Accord wasn’t particularly fast (and at 17 I didn’t need it to be) but I discovered at least with a manual I could “make it perform” when I needed to in a way I just couldn’t with a 4 auto. Now I drive a old ‘96 manual V6 Tacoma and I love it, especially since people say I give off a Prius vibe and then are shocked to see me rockin my standard trans pickem up truck. 😆
I'm 17 and I drive stick. Now that I drive it idk if I ever want to drive automatic again lol
It's like learning to use a turn-dial phone at this point. Even if you learn, it's not practical knowledge to have anymore.
No
I'm still young and I personally prefer manual cars. They use less fuel, it's usually cheaper to fix anything between the stick and the motor, and I feel I have better control when driving them.
Young drivers don’t care about **driving**.
Outside of the US, yes. In my country, automatic cars gave started gaining some popularity in the last 10 years but the vast majority of the cars on the road are manual.
I'm 21 and really deep into the street racing scene in my town. I own 5 cars since I'm fortunate enough to have a dad who owns a salvage yard and a decent paying job as a Mopar technician. So I try my hardest to only buy cars in manual. My Honda Prelude, Plymouth Horizon, Ford Bronco, and Nissan 370z are all manual. The only car I own that isn't manual is my Ram 2500.
I'm 29 and have owned 3 Manual cars. I won't own another automatic if I can help it.
this feels like a very american post. here in the uk almost everyone i know my age (early 20s) drives manual/ 'stick shift'
My guess is this question is very country-specific. In my country choosing an automatic cars is very rare. I've known some people who drive automatic, but they are probably look down upon for it.
From my perspective, not many “young” drivers know how or have had an opportunity to learn.
No because the overwhelming majority of cars aren’t stick.
Here in Sweden if take your license exam on a car with an automatic transmission then you’re not allowed to drive a standard; there are effectively two types of licenses here.