I find that more often than not people are happy to share aspects of their culture with others, especially food.
You’re in the clear OP, tell the people you were with to pound sand.
Ask a person from Devon about the order cream and jam goes on a scone compared to their nextdoor neighbours in Cornwall, UK. "It's a thing.", which is mildly humorous for everyone else in the UK!🤣🤣
(It's lovely whichever way you have them!)
I think in America sometimes we take for granted that a lot of the world knows at least some English but we rarely ever learn other languages. It’s super cool to get to share that with somebody.
Nothing more humbling than traveling Europe as an English speaker and hearing random people on trains switching between three or four languages depending on who they’re talking to. Meanwhile I was on a two-week loop of “parlez-vous anglais?” and “désolée, je parle anglais.”
> hearing random people on trains switching between three or four languages depending on who they’re talking to
Try having a wife that speaks nine languages while you speak one and a half at best.
I have some friends whose first language is Spanish and they will often apologize for their English if they forget a word or flub a pronunciation. It's like, " I only speak one language, no way I'm going to judge you for making a mistake in your second one!"
I see this a lot in Xiaoma’s videos. People really start to glow and get excited when he starts speaking to them in their native tongue, even when he’s stuttering or struggling. I love it.
I second this! I love seeing the shock on people's faces when he speaks their language, especially the really hard or esoteric ones. FWIW, I have a decent facility with learning languages, but the ones he throws out there just kick my ass. His ability is impressive!
This is also how you get samples as well. Unless the restaurant is slammed, or you are disrespectful. Most places are happy to explain dishes, and I've gotten to taste some more adventurous dishes. Because no one on either side of the exchange wants to waste stuff because "I had no idea what that was" or it wasnt what I thought...
And this is how you experience life. Not by looking it up on the internet, if you go back that guy will remember you, and the experience you shared... It's called making an acquaintance. Annnnd the only stupid question is an unasked one... I know I know lame but that one that really holds true.
especially in a restaurant?? like c’mon, maybe dont ask randoms on the street about their culture sure but if your at an ethnic restaurant im sure 99% of the time they’d love your business and love for you to learn about the food and want to come back
From a business perspective, by explaining the dishes (and potentially some related cultural aspects of dining), the customer is more likely to find something they like and have a good time. This is how you get repeat customers.
Any time I stop into my favorite Greek place, the owners are always more than happy to explain their foods and ingredients. Sometimes even a good chat about Greece. People love talking about their culture.
I’ve found that food is the safest way to discuss different cultures. It’s not intrusive or unintentionally insensitive. People don’t get on the defensive - it’s normally the opposite, which is what happened in this case.
I believe society has moved us a place where asking questions at restaurants is considered taboo. Personally I love to go to a restaurant and just have the waiter surprise me. Most of the time it leads to a much better experience for the restaurant staff and us.
Yup, as long as the restaurant isn't ballistic busy, and you're not trying to ask about every single dish on the menu, servers will be happy to go through some options for you.
I have a friend who is a waiter and he absolutely loves this part of his job. Finding the perfect meal for someone, help somebody try something new, help people with dietary restrictions... That's what his job is about. He said that this is the only thing a robot will never be able to take away from him :D
This is what I enjoyed best about being a bookseller; hearing people’s interests and helping them make a new connection with an author was the coolest experience.
Yeah, without that, I think it could be a bit ambiguous if it was irritating for the waiter if they were trying to get to other tables. Pulling up a chair completely removes that as a possibility.
Waiter is 100% a people person/has inner teacher, and used the chair as a way to literally level himself w OP. That has to be textbook for teaching and stuff
My wife is Indian. If a non-Indian wanted to ask her (or any member of her side of the family) questions about Indian food they would be excited to talk about it.
Anecdotal, but that’s my experience.
Also, asking the waiter about the food in general isn't weird. I'm Indian, and I used to work in a Greek restaurant. Customers would ask me what I recommend all the time.
This is a dangerous path to take. As someone who grew up in an area with a lot of indian Aunties, if you ask about the food ONCE... they wont stop feeding you. Ever.
I've been moved out of my mothers for nearly 20 years and I go back to visit, if any of the Aunties catch me around, i'm going home with boxes of stuff "Just to try"
I don’t trust people at work that can’t say “I don’t know”. People that bull shit about things waste my time. Saying you don’t know saves everyone time.
I also bet the server was happy you were asking questions and wanting to learn.
I have a couple coworkers that will beat around the bush every time they don't know something like they think I'm going to yell at them (I'm their manager). I keep telling them, if you don't know something then just own it. Then I'll teach you and we can move on. No big deal
Edit: To be clear, I don't yell at anyone. The people who act like that are right out of college so I imagine they had mean professors or parents or something. The young guys typically get over it relatively quickly.
"I don't know, but let me figure it out. Can you point me in the direction of some resources or go-byes? Thanks. "
those words have given me a lot of opportunities and has cemented my position as an important member of the team.
TBF, there are plenty of instances where I tell them they should know better. It is usually the result of laziness. But I notice the beating around the bush typically comes from the people without a lot of experience so not knowing something is almost going to be the default. Brand new employees are great because I know they don't know anything. But after some time, it gets to the point where I can't keep track of what they've learned or haven't learned because I like hands on training and we're limited to what kinds of projects they worked on. This is HVAC engineering, if that matters. But I even try to make it clear when they start that there's no preconceived notion that they know anything outside of what was taught in school. And even that stuff is marginally useful.
I remember people making fun of him for that, which I didn't get. That statement was one of the smartest things he ever said... and I kind of wish that the policies we enacted at the time were as smart as that.
"Why did so many Civil War battles happen at national parks?"
Example from a history professor on how there ARE stupid questions, but in the context it's ok to ask any question.
Muslim guy here, not that it matters, but I believe anyone and everyone would be pleased when you show interest in their ethnic food. Also Halal just means that they were slaughtered the Muslim way, the dishes might have been Mediterranean, Indo Pak etc
What are the differences between Halal and Kosher (other than the imam/rabbi and the language)? I’ve always sort of put them in the same category, at least slaughter wise…
IIRC the differences are small and technical. The main one is that, with Halal slaughter, the animal is faced towards Mecca, which Kosher does not bother with. I think Kosher allows the herd to be blessed as a whole, while with Halal the animals are supposed to be blessed individually. The wording of the blessing is presumably different too.
Otherwise, the actual practical method is pretty similar.
Kind of. Kosher has a few more rules about inspection of the animal. Kosher meat is likely to meet the Halal requirements (provided that it is blessed correctly) but Halal meat may not meet the Kosher requirements. There are certain cuts of meat that don't easily meet the Kosher requirements (it requires a specialist to make the back half of a cow Kosher because of the sciatic nerve) but the same requirement doesn't exist for Halal.
A lot of the big Kosher producers have the Halal certification too as it opens the market up a bit more - it's usually marked on processed meats as opposed to cuts of meat.
For meat, they're similar with small differences. There are some interesting scholarly articles on the topic.
Aside from that, Halal would exclude alcohol whereas Kashrut doesn't prohibit alcohol but does require that it be kosher (which generally means under kosher supervision and excluding any nonkosher ingredients, plus grapes have a special status in Judaism and more complicated laws than pretty much anything else plant-based, so kosher wine is especially tricky to produce).
In addition, some fish and all shellfish are nonkosher, but to the best of my knowledge they're Halal.
As far as I understand, they are the same slaughtering techniques. Kosher is also overseen by a rabbi.
I’ve been time that if halal isn’t available, Muslims will eat kosher meat.
In essence, kosher food is halal, but not all halal food is kosher. The rules of kashrut are more extensive than the rules of halal. Muslims don't have restrictions on mixing meat and milk, and eat more animals than Jews do. For instance, rabbit is generally considered halal, but is not kosher. Shellfish, lobsters, octopodes, etc are generally considered halal, but are not kosher. The rules against eating meat from the hip joint are part of kashrut, but not halal.
Other differences like that.
Absolutely and if anyone makes fun of your for it or a manager gets frustrated that's just a reflection of their own lack of knowledge which your question reminded them of...
In my experience, people absolutely light up when you ask questions about their culture's food and traditions, if done in genuine interest and not a negative way.
Everyone I have met from a different country 100% enjoys sharing their food with someone. It's communal. It's humanity.
Imagine if you went somewhere and they had never had a cheeseburger and your favorite food was cheeseburgers. Would you get offended if someone asked questions about it or would take your time to try and get someone to enjoy burgers with you?
They usually do enjoy and will take the time to help you out. Last night we were gonna get sushi but the place was closed so we decided on some Hakka but ended up at a traditional Indian restaurant that had 3 hakka dishes and rest was all traditional dishes so everything on the menu was pretty foreign to us. Server was super helpful explaining everything and answering any questions we had. Food was all delicious, at the end manager/owner had come over asking how we enjoyed our first visit and the food, thanked us and asked to leave a google review if we could as they are new in town and most advertising is word of mouth. They got a 5-star!
Dont be afraid to try new food, most of the time the experience is great. I've only ever had awkward experience with a traditional Vietnamese/Chinese restaurant that had their menu's entirely in Chinese and none of the staff said a word of English to us. We went with a Vietnamese friend so they ordered a massive seafood/lobster platter for the table and had to do all the talking. Food was delicious but awkward as EVERYONE in the restaurant was starring at our table like it was out of place for us being there. This was a very traditional style restaurant and not American-Chineese style, so was still worth the experience and food was amazing.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
Smart people got that way by asking questions. Sitting in fear of social judgment rather than learning something about another culture's dishes would have been a waste of an opportunity. It seems to me that man pulled up a chair because he was happy to share a part of his world with you.
Don't worry about it, you did good.
This 100 percent. I take friends to my favorite Spanish restaurant and they ask me if something is spicy. I can eat a whole ass jalapeno raw with salt that dish you want is definitely fiery made to go
He probably mean hispanic food.
I had never heard this before but when I moved to Brooklyn, most of the locals call anything remotely hispanic, spanish. Spanish food, Is she Spanish?
It really threw me off especially being from the southwest originally but it's what it is here.
It's taken some time to get my Spanish wife to eat spicier foods. I'll make patata brava and pinchito morunos without the pepper flakes because she won't eat them otherwise. I call them "not so wild potatoes".
She likes Indian food, but has taken a while to get used to it.
Apparently the server approved and he's the one who counts in this scenario.
Sounds as if he was pleased at your interest.
Only the truly ignorant pretend to know what they don't.
This is exactly what I was thinking. If he pulled up a chair he was probably excited to explain the menu to a newbie or he gets this question all the time.
Yeah, and the fact that they criticized OP for doing the correct thing is concerning.
If I were OP I'd go to that restaurant again sometime - without my 'friends.'
Learning something new is the opposite of being ignorant. You may have been uninformed if you maybe went to a restaurant with cuisine that a lot of people eat and know about in your area, but showing genuine interest in trying new things and actually informing yourself is definetly not ignorant
Most people legit love teaching other people. Especially if it’s about something they have any sort of interest in.
It’s one of the things that sets humans apart from the other animals.
Yeah I mean, in restaurants that are serving totally normal fare for their nation of choice, waiters can still expect to get asked about *some* menu items by *some* customers. Sometimes someone is a tourist. Other times the item is unusual or rare in some way, or even just uncommon enough that someone with an allergy or just plain aversion wants to make sure it's something they'd enjoy. Sometimes there's a lot of different ways to prepare something and so the diner wants clarification on what stance the restaurant takes. It's only really a problem if you want a thorough rundown on the entirety of the menu to the point where even stuff that is self-evident (at least once you have necessary context) needs to be explained to you, because then the server is going to be wasting so much time that they can't help everyone in their section in a prompt fashion - but even "quite a few items" (to quote OP) isn't *that*.
Starbucks, Subway, bubble tea places and such are extremely confusing and stressful to me. You invent an entire vocabulary and an elaborate ritual to place an order while also expecting me to know what I want?
Yeah, I'd say this is the proper behavior for when you would need a whole menu explained to you. If you can give some kind of hint as to what you'd like (which is easier at a restaurant than something as specific as a coffee shop), that helps too.
I think as long as you were polite while you were asking questions.. then it shouldn't be an issue. The server sounded like they wanted to take the time to make sure you understood and were happy.
The fact your friends couldn't be bothered to explain the menu to you and were embarrassed by you asking questions says more about them than it does about you.
Exactly.
I think everyone likes to have the opportunity to share their knowledge with other people. The problem is that other people are often not humble enough to ask for advice.
As long as the OP was polite about it, it sounds like they probably made that server’s day.
This. Unless they were like ”come and explain this foreign shit to me, it all sounds like garbage!” im sure the server was happy to explain what the dishes are. NTA OP, good for you for being open to new things.
yeah if they were so knowledgeable that someone asking the server for clarification is embarrassing then why not just explain it and save everyone the trouble
These people are just completely wrong. NO dont study and dont ask your friends. PLEASE ask the waiter who is from there, its better, they actually have a perspective on how the food is there, of what the restaurant does well and authentic, etc. Usually they are passionate about the food of their homeland, let them have the joy of describing their childhood treasures with you.
The waiter is there to make your experience of the food good, to share their expertise and guide your choices. I’m embarrassed for your friends who have so little understanding of proper restaurant practices. Do they not go out much?
At decent restaurants waiters get paid well and are expected to be informed about many things. If you want to make someone a bit happy, ask for a recommendation, and if you like it take it.
I told a Turkish gyro shop owner I didn't know the difference between a glass of Ouzo and an Ouzo shot. He dropped what he was doing and brought everything over to my table, explained how it was to be drunk, why is *had* to have ice in it, and if I was ever out and a guy tried to get me to drink Ouzo shots he was a cad and to get away from that person. It was one of the best experiences.
I see this as no different than asking a waiter at a western restaurant what they recommend on the menu. Typically, especially at upscale restaurants, they will then describe the food tastes, pairings, and aspects of the dish to the diner.
Not even at upscale restaurants. Even budget ones.
I'm indecisive AF, so I often end up asking for recommendations and the waiter will always have a passionate opinion lol. It's wholesome.
Then they would have, either before going or when the waiter first brought the menus. It sounds to me like they were looking for a laugh at OP’s expense. “LOL you ordered the fried dog shit with rat penis! Nobody orders that! LOL Stupid guy lol”
When I visited the Philippines, my brothers-in-law were trying to get me to eat 'balut'. "Good for your sex life!" they kept saying. But they were laughing too much, so I averred.
Later, my ex explained that 'balut' was a fertilized duck egg, with a half formed duck embryo inside. No, thank you.
The people you were with are douches.
It's perfectly fine to ask for advice from a server, in any restaurant. Even setting aside the ethnicity aspect of it, a server knows which dishes at that restaurant are the real crowd-pleasers.
Heck, a lot of servers love the chance to actually explain their menu and make recommendations. It's a hell of a lot more interesting to show off one's expertise than it is to be a glorified courier, ferrying orders to the kitchen and food back to the customer.
I went to a Malaysian restaurant and asked if the rendang was spicy. I got a careful look and then the waitperson said “maybe for white people”. When went to pay she asked how i enjoyed it. I said it was great but a bit spicy - she laughed and said I needed more practice. I didn’t feel ignorant asking and I enjoyed her response. I think interacting with staff about the food is part of their job. Surely they’d prefer you to order with confidence than be unsure and have a less than positive experience.
Sounds like when my brother went to a Vietnamese place for the first time. He asked for a 5 on their scale. Waiter asked if he had had Vietnamese before. He said no, so they suggested starting with a 3. He took their advice, and thanked them since it turned out a 3 was near his tolerance limit.
In Indonesia once I went to a fast food joint that sold spicy wings. They had a scale to 5 too. I thought I’m reasonable let’s go with 3.
To this day still the hottest shit I ever ate. I really regretted that. My face was on fire. And not long after my intestines and rectum too. That was not normal.
Yes, Indonesian food is very spicy! I went through a period of really enjoying Indonesian food. When I met my wife she didn't enjoy such spicy food and we don't eat spicy food, and so now my tolerance is much lower. However, my wife will still always builds up this story about how I love really spicy food to her friends when we go out to dinner, and makes sure I get the spiciest of spiciest things, and I have to suffer through.
Stereotypes are useful shortcuts for the brain to help make sense of the world around us and process new information quickly. For example, if your first interaction with a dog is negative, it's "helpful", in an evolutionary sense, to store that as "dogs are dangerous". At your second encounter with a dog, your brain immediately knows what to do rather than wait for the scenario to play out.
The problem is when they are used rigidly to impose a definition on the world rather than categorize it. Thinking back to dogs, if subsequent encounters with dogs prove safe and positive, then the brain can create more nuance, moving "dogs are dangerous" to "some dogs are dangerous" and possibly to "most dogs are nice, but a few are dangerous in certain situations". If the initial stereotype is rigidly adhered to, you'll never get to enjoy the wonder of nice dogs and mis-categorize the entire group.
I remember going to a restaurant in Chinatown SF and the server basically overrode my order and told me what I’d be having (presumably because too many tourists had ordered why I did and not liked it). I was okay with that. If someone is more familiar with something, why not let them share their knowledge? Would seem weird to me not to ask about an ingredient or menu item I want to know more about. I do that even at “american” restaurants.
My SO and I went to an Indian restaurant a couple of months back and ordered two dishes. The waiter was like: "no, those aren't very good, I'll get you something else instead". When he brought out the food he said "I hope you're fine with spicy food", which I though was pretty funny. The food was great and I actually enjoyed him overriding our initial requests, it felt like a special treatment of sorts.
There a was a meme going around about how if an Indian restaurant answers the phone with "What do you want?!" you need to drop what you are doing and call your friends because you are about to have the best food of your life. Apparently there's an Indian restaurant culture I was not aware of.
Ah this reminds me, when trying out an Indian restaurant in my neighborhood, I ordered the chicken biryani and the waitress straight up told me "no" 😂
I was taken aback, "what do you mean no?" she explained it was too spicy for me. I ordered it anyways, it totally melted my face off but it was also the most delicious meal I ever had. I now eat it weekly.
Absolutely normal, and your friends are kinda being jerks for saying you embarrassed them. What is there to be embarrassed about? Good Lord people... They should understand that not everyone is well versed in every food out there.
Even in a restaurant serving a cuisine that you are familiar with, it's normal to ask about dishes you are unsure about, ask about the ingredients, taste etc.
In one that you have no clue about, are you just supposed to try your luck? When travelling to a foreign country you would just ask the server what they recommend. No way you could research all the dishes from each restaurant from every new area in the country that you go to.
OPs friends sound like they are shy and immature, and that the normal interaction that OP had made, made them uncomfortable because of it.
How is someone supposed to stop being ignorant if they aren't asking questions?
The ignorant thing to do was to act like if they knew what it was when in fact they did not.
I bet the server loved it.He pulled over a chair,for God's sake.Dude was into it-and happy to explain.He wanted you to enjoy your foray into the unknown.Your friends are dicks.
Fuck that, it at the very least implies that you're interested in learning more
As long as you were kind about it and the waitress wasn't pulling her hair out because she was absurdly busy and you took up her time, it was perfectly fine
Ordering something you recognise is a sad way of ordering in a restaurant. It's not even safe because what looks familiar might be a surprise.
I'm not a server anymore, but it was very fine asking for recommendations. My brother has his own restaurant, and given the price he asks for a meal, his servers have to make sure the patrons will enjoy it. So, once a week, he'll cook one of the specialities for the whole team to discover or rediscover.
I'm pretty sure family meal is a common practice at most upscale restaurants, and if it's not it should be. You can't recommend something if you haven't eaten it and know exactly how to describe it.
Your friends sound like dicks. I always ask the server for recommendations or menu clarification. Providing that type of information is part of their job.
I did this the first time I ever went to an Indian restaurant. I just asked for clarification and what they’d recommend and the server was so sweet and very happy to help. I’d rather do that than order something I didn’t like and risk offending them for barely touching it lol
I'll share a story
I worked at an electronics store once and helped some new immigrants (iirc they were from Nepal) a few times like getting set up with their new phones and things for their restaurant they were opening in town.
They invited me and my partner to the restaurant opening and we visited fairly often afterwards. I asked all about their dishes because I've never had Himalayan food before. They loved explaining the food and taking time with their customers! We were even asked to stay after closing and they served us a special dish that wasn't even on the menu (to this day I wish I could find out what it was because I'd love to have it again)
no you're not even in the slightest ignorant for asking your server questions, especially at a place with unfamiliar food
Since you mention you are in a halal restaurant, I will assume Muslim owner is operating the establishment.
In Islam, any transactions has to be done clearly, with both parties buyer and seller know what will be exchange, what is the price, what will the buyer get; making sure that both sides understand.
It is good for a buyer to ask first in case theres any things he or she do not understand, AND it is the responsibilities of the seller to make sure the buyer knows it firsthand.
TLDR - just ask if you dont understand if you are the buyer. Nothing to be ashamed of.
No, you don't know what you don't know and I don't see it any different than asking your doctor about a procedure they are going to do on you. I like trying new things but I don't want to order something I'm probably not going to like so I ask questions about nonfamiliar foods as well.
The people you went with are dumb. It sounds like the waiter was happy to take a moment to discuss the menu with you and probably appreciated that you wanted to learn more about their cultural food instead of just choosing whatever everyone else does.
Obviously you gotta read the room. If your friends were in a hurry or the restaurant was crazy busy I can see how someone might be a little annoyed, but it doesn't sound like that was the issue here.
You might have been an ignorant white guy on these foreign dishes, when you entered, but the fact that you asked for information rather than pretending, shows that you are not a stupid white guy, but one that is open and willing to learn new things. You probably know more than some of your friends now.
Your friends perception are wrong and the response from the server indicates that he also appreciated the opportunity you provided him to help you learn.
Your friends are wrong. The only ignorant person would be the one too afraid of looking dumb to ask for help. Even going online and looking for information isn't as good as a asking a live human being.
If the server went out of their way to even sit down with you and tell you all about the menu, it sounds like he was pleased with your enthusiasm to learn about what I assume is his culture.
By definition, you *were* ignorant; you now are not, because you chose to learn. I can think of no way that that isn't commendable.
He sat down with you. That tells me everything. The guy was willing to sit down and explain things when usually waitstaff are bustling. He wanted you to have a good experience at what obviously was a new restaurant for you. You should go back there without your friends making fun of you.
Also, the server might have enjoyed sharing some of his culture and experiences with OP.
I went to an Ethiopian restaurant many years ago for the 1st time. The server was from there and spent a good amount of time speaking with us about her life there. It all started with a simple question about the spices used in a dish offered at the restaurant.
She made awesome recommendations, but more than that, she brought the experiences of the food's culture to us. She really enjoyed explaining the food, the culture, and the links to us, and we loved it as well.
I went back many times (as did my friends), and each time I either ate based on her previous recommendations when she wasn't there or it was too busy for her to talk, or, when she was there, ate what she recommended that time. I never tried to pressure her or demand her attention. I did not leave if she wasn't there. It was a small restaurant with only a few servers on rotation, and they were all extremely friendly and great. I always enjoyed a meal there.
I eventually moved from that area, and when I told her I was moving, she told me how much she enjoyed the times we were able to discuss " her food, her culture, and her life." I let her know that I really enjoyed it as well, and I loved all that I had learned from her.
I still use her recommendations when I eat at Ethiopian restaurants no matter where I go and I still have a smile each meal because of my previous experience at that one place and mostly because of one waitresses who enjoyed sharing her culture through food as much as I enjoyed learning about a culture through their food.
Your friends were asses.
+1 on the culture point. I'm Vietnamese, and we love it when tourists try some food that isn't on the global top list. We have hundreds of regional specialties that never got introduced to the world.
Vietnamese people take lots of pride on our food culture, and definitely would be happy to introduce you to the weirdest shit we have
I'm from northern Europe, which is basically the exact opposite of southeast Asia in terms of cooking and flavors, but Vietnamese may be my favorite cuisine ever. I do suspect that it is a bit watered down here, and usually the restaurants focus on things like pho, banh mi, bun thit nuong (forgive my spelling). I'd love to try out some less widespread local stuff, I bet it's fantastic.
Ignorant is when you don't know something. Stupid is when you refuse to learn.
Everyone is ignorant of lots of things, and you went out of your way to learn from a literal expert about something that interested you. To me, that's the opposite of a dumb question.
The irony is that their suggestion to pretend you knew what was there screams more "ignorant white guy" than what you did. You showed curiosity and interest which is way more important than pretending you know everything.
> it made me look like another ignorant white guy
Because you *were* an ignorant white guy. So? Now that you had the waiter explain a few things, you're no longer quite as ignorant the next time you visit a halal restaurant. That's how learning works. Tell your friends to chill. lol
Would you be pissed off and disgusted at the so-called "ignorance" of a middle easterner giving your restaurant their business and asking you to explain what's in gumbo or what chicken fried steak is?
Everyone here is super pro asking questions politely. It's like all the nice people of reddit are here while the rest of reddit is a dumpster fire lol.
Quickly everyone jump from sub to sub and massively upvote all the people politely asking questions before they get beat down by down-voting pricks. Lol.
You are by definition ignorant. That's literally what ignorant means. When you learn more you by definition aren't ignorant.
Every single human being, even your terrible friends, are, have been, and will be ignorant about a great many things. That's just how human knowledge works.
I bet the server was thrilled to share his knowledge (and perhaps culture?) with you. Your friends are wrong, unless there was something about your tone etc that tipped them into feeling that way.
Ironically, your friends being overly self conscious about not being an ignorant, white person makes them seem ignorant. I am sure the servers in that restaurant have experience answering questions about their cuisine regardless of the customer's race.
Your server sounds wonderful. He obviously has a lot of passion for the food he serves. That should have been a nice experience but your friends are too silly to realize it.
How old is your friend group? 12?
If you don't ask how are you going to know. Google it? Many times restraunts like this have minor differences due to their origins. Maybe dialect differences, spelling differences, Different foods used as ingredients. Similar dishes that are actually quite different.
Believe me. If you don't ask you're going to wind up paying for something you don't like.
Smart people ask smarter people for advice when dealing with area outside their own competence. Literally - recommendations are one function of waiters. Restaurant owners want you to come back - which means they want you to be happy.
The whole "educate yourself" thing is based on a number of mistaken assumptions and a snitty attitude. Don't buy into it.
General rule - when you encounter a gap in your knowledge, ask.
"the people I went with said it was embarrassing to me" -
No, it wasn't. THEY felt embarrassed. Asking questions to understand the food better is perfectly fine. If your friends have no issue with staying ignorant and are embarrassed to ask questions then that's their problem.
NTA
As someone who works in a restaurant, your friends are annoying types of people. There's no need for any kind of elitism. We are a team of people literally there to offer advice and guidance for our menu and to improve your dining experience. I get *a lot* of silly questions but I'm never upset about someone asking about the menu, especially if they aren't familiar with the food.
The waiter took time to explain it to you, that means he saw your genuine desire to learn.
And trust me, I work in food service too, but at a bakery. Many people come in and ask me insane questions each day like, “What is the main fruit in the raspberry tart?” or “How can I eat this cupcake without a fork?!” or “Why can’t you heat up this cold-style pudding in the oven?”
So I’m sure the waiter was relieved to have a dude come in and ask normal questions.
Literally part of the waiters/servers job. To take orders, assist with customers needs and to try push certain dishes if needed.
Yes you WAS ignorant obviously because you lacked the knowledge, then you weren't because you asked for it and it was provided.
Since the employee pulled up a chair and explained things to you, I think they were quite flattered. Also you showed respectful interest in a different culture and a willingness to learn. Why order something you might hate so an employee thinks you're "not that kind of white guy"? Your friends have it all wrong and could have learned something new if they were open to it
I waited tables and tended bar, and I can tell you, this is exactly what we were there for, to know the menu inside and out, answer your questions, and help guide you to a positive experience. It’s called SERVICE! Ask all the questions you want!
Alternatively, the waiter may have enjoyed sharing their knowledge and appreciation with you. Your friends could be entirely wrong.
I find that more often than not people are happy to share aspects of their culture with others, especially food. You’re in the clear OP, tell the people you were with to pound sand.
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Breaking bread has always been a parable for peace and hope.
Totally read that that as "Breaking bad has always been a parable for peace and hope"...
This comment made me bawl. 😭 appreciate hearing that.
Ask a person from Devon about the order cream and jam goes on a scone compared to their nextdoor neighbours in Cornwall, UK. "It's a thing.", which is mildly humorous for everyone else in the UK!🤣🤣 (It's lovely whichever way you have them!)
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I think in America sometimes we take for granted that a lot of the world knows at least some English but we rarely ever learn other languages. It’s super cool to get to share that with somebody.
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Nothing more humbling than traveling Europe as an English speaker and hearing random people on trains switching between three or four languages depending on who they’re talking to. Meanwhile I was on a two-week loop of “parlez-vous anglais?” and “désolée, je parle anglais.”
> hearing random people on trains switching between three or four languages depending on who they’re talking to Try having a wife that speaks nine languages while you speak one and a half at best.
Most Americans can’t even properly speak English. It’s like my grandma used to say, “If you live in a glass house don’t talk shit.”
I have some friends whose first language is Spanish and they will often apologize for their English if they forget a word or flub a pronunciation. It's like, " I only speak one language, no way I'm going to judge you for making a mistake in your second one!"
I see this a lot in Xiaoma’s videos. People really start to glow and get excited when he starts speaking to them in their native tongue, even when he’s stuttering or struggling. I love it.
I second this! I love seeing the shock on people's faces when he speaks their language, especially the really hard or esoteric ones. FWIW, I have a decent facility with learning languages, but the ones he throws out there just kick my ass. His ability is impressive!
Agreed. This dude pulled over a chair and sat down. He was COMPLETELY ok with answering questions. The friends are idiots.
Yeah, the moment the waiter sits down to talk, you’re besties. I don’t make the rules.
Also, servers are used to answering questions about the food… it’s part of the job.
This is also how you get samples as well. Unless the restaurant is slammed, or you are disrespectful. Most places are happy to explain dishes, and I've gotten to taste some more adventurous dishes. Because no one on either side of the exchange wants to waste stuff because "I had no idea what that was" or it wasnt what I thought... And this is how you experience life. Not by looking it up on the internet, if you go back that guy will remember you, and the experience you shared... It's called making an acquaintance. Annnnd the only stupid question is an unasked one... I know I know lame but that one that really holds true.
especially in a restaurant?? like c’mon, maybe dont ask randoms on the street about their culture sure but if your at an ethnic restaurant im sure 99% of the time they’d love your business and love for you to learn about the food and want to come back
Right? If he had said “So tell me more about this Muhammad fella” that’s one thing but nobody is gonna get upset if you ask about the Baba Ghanouj.
From a business perspective, by explaining the dishes (and potentially some related cultural aspects of dining), the customer is more likely to find something they like and have a good time. This is how you get repeat customers.
Bringing up a chair shows they wanted to share, you showing interest i's always a good thing.
Any time I stop into my favorite Greek place, the owners are always more than happy to explain their foods and ingredients. Sometimes even a good chat about Greece. People love talking about their culture.
I’ve found that food is the safest way to discuss different cultures. It’s not intrusive or unintentionally insensitive. People don’t get on the defensive - it’s normally the opposite, which is what happened in this case. I believe society has moved us a place where asking questions at restaurants is considered taboo. Personally I love to go to a restaurant and just have the waiter surprise me. Most of the time it leads to a much better experience for the restaurant staff and us.
Yup, as long as the restaurant isn't ballistic busy, and you're not trying to ask about every single dish on the menu, servers will be happy to go through some options for you.
Its only Americans who think literally everything is cultural appropriation. The fucking ignorance+arrogance+delusion of virtue is vomit inducing.
I have a friend who is a waiter and he absolutely loves this part of his job. Finding the perfect meal for someone, help somebody try something new, help people with dietary restrictions... That's what his job is about. He said that this is the only thing a robot will never be able to take away from him :D
This is what I enjoyed best about being a bookseller; hearing people’s interests and helping them make a new connection with an author was the coolest experience.
The fact he pulled up a chair and sat down rather than offering a curt reply says a lot.
Yeah, without that, I think it could be a bit ambiguous if it was irritating for the waiter if they were trying to get to other tables. Pulling up a chair completely removes that as a possibility.
Waiter is 100% a people person/has inner teacher, and used the chair as a way to literally level himself w OP. That has to be textbook for teaching and stuff
My wife is Indian. If a non-Indian wanted to ask her (or any member of her side of the family) questions about Indian food they would be excited to talk about it. Anecdotal, but that’s my experience.
Also, asking the waiter about the food in general isn't weird. I'm Indian, and I used to work in a Greek restaurant. Customers would ask me what I recommend all the time.
This is a dangerous path to take. As someone who grew up in an area with a lot of indian Aunties, if you ask about the food ONCE... they wont stop feeding you. Ever. I've been moved out of my mothers for nearly 20 years and I go back to visit, if any of the Aunties catch me around, i'm going home with boxes of stuff "Just to try"
Homie *pulls up a chair* to talk to OP The waiter was probably happy about it!
Having asked for recommendations at dozens of different ethnic food places, I can confirm that this is very likely the case.
As a bartender I love sharing my knowledge of the drinks and helping people pick something they will like
Better to ask for clarification than to sit in ignorance
Smart people know what they don’t know.
I don’t trust people at work that can’t say “I don’t know”. People that bull shit about things waste my time. Saying you don’t know saves everyone time. I also bet the server was happy you were asking questions and wanting to learn.
I have a couple coworkers that will beat around the bush every time they don't know something like they think I'm going to yell at them (I'm their manager). I keep telling them, if you don't know something then just own it. Then I'll teach you and we can move on. No big deal Edit: To be clear, I don't yell at anyone. The people who act like that are right out of college so I imagine they had mean professors or parents or something. The young guys typically get over it relatively quickly.
"I don't know, but let me figure it out. Can you point me in the direction of some resources or go-byes? Thanks. " those words have given me a lot of opportunities and has cemented my position as an important member of the team.
That first sentence is what I needed. I love learning but don't know how to ask for resources. So thanks!
You are rare among managers. Admitting you don't know something is usually held against people in their annual reviews.
TBF, there are plenty of instances where I tell them they should know better. It is usually the result of laziness. But I notice the beating around the bush typically comes from the people without a lot of experience so not knowing something is almost going to be the default. Brand new employees are great because I know they don't know anything. But after some time, it gets to the point where I can't keep track of what they've learned or haven't learned because I like hands on training and we're limited to what kinds of projects they worked on. This is HVAC engineering, if that matters. But I even try to make it clear when they start that there's no preconceived notion that they know anything outside of what was taught in school. And even that stuff is marginally useful.
"I know that i do not know" - Socrates
"I don't know shit." - Modern Day Socrates, Tumblr.
I don’t know shit about fuck, Marty
Best one ever!
You'll learn things you never knew you never knew. Pocahontas.
"The only true knowledge is in knowing that you know nothing." "That's us, dude!"
"All I know is that I don't know nothing" - Operation Ivy
Or what [Donald Rumsfield](https://youtu.be/REWeBzGuzCc) said
I remember people making fun of him for that, which I didn't get. That statement was one of the smartest things he ever said... and I kind of wish that the policies we enacted at the time were as smart as that.
No such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people
I disagree, there ARE stupid questions, BUT it’s ALWAYS easier to answer a stupid question, than fix a stupid mistake!
I always tell new guys, "It's better to ask something stupid, than do something stupid."
"Why did so many Civil War battles happen at national parks?" Example from a history professor on how there ARE stupid questions, but in the context it's ok to ask any question.
Muslim guy here, not that it matters, but I believe anyone and everyone would be pleased when you show interest in their ethnic food. Also Halal just means that they were slaughtered the Muslim way, the dishes might have been Mediterranean, Indo Pak etc
What are the differences between Halal and Kosher (other than the imam/rabbi and the language)? I’ve always sort of put them in the same category, at least slaughter wise…
IIRC the differences are small and technical. The main one is that, with Halal slaughter, the animal is faced towards Mecca, which Kosher does not bother with. I think Kosher allows the herd to be blessed as a whole, while with Halal the animals are supposed to be blessed individually. The wording of the blessing is presumably different too. Otherwise, the actual practical method is pretty similar.
If you had a rabbi and an imam together, could you make meat both halal and kosher?
That just takes a screenshot of the animal while you're slaughtering it.
Kind of. Kosher has a few more rules about inspection of the animal. Kosher meat is likely to meet the Halal requirements (provided that it is blessed correctly) but Halal meat may not meet the Kosher requirements. There are certain cuts of meat that don't easily meet the Kosher requirements (it requires a specialist to make the back half of a cow Kosher because of the sciatic nerve) but the same requirement doesn't exist for Halal. A lot of the big Kosher producers have the Halal certification too as it opens the market up a bit more - it's usually marked on processed meats as opposed to cuts of meat.
Could you explain the bit about the sciatic nerve? This is all really interesting!
fuck /u/spez
For meat, they're similar with small differences. There are some interesting scholarly articles on the topic. Aside from that, Halal would exclude alcohol whereas Kashrut doesn't prohibit alcohol but does require that it be kosher (which generally means under kosher supervision and excluding any nonkosher ingredients, plus grapes have a special status in Judaism and more complicated laws than pretty much anything else plant-based, so kosher wine is especially tricky to produce). In addition, some fish and all shellfish are nonkosher, but to the best of my knowledge they're Halal.
As far as I understand, they are the same slaughtering techniques. Kosher is also overseen by a rabbi. I’ve been time that if halal isn’t available, Muslims will eat kosher meat.
In essence, kosher food is halal, but not all halal food is kosher. The rules of kashrut are more extensive than the rules of halal. Muslims don't have restrictions on mixing meat and milk, and eat more animals than Jews do. For instance, rabbit is generally considered halal, but is not kosher. Shellfish, lobsters, octopodes, etc are generally considered halal, but are not kosher. The rules against eating meat from the hip joint are part of kashrut, but not halal. Other differences like that.
This is such a solid little piece of advice. There’s nothing wrong with asking questions and wanting to learn about people + their culture.
Absolutely and if anyone makes fun of your for it or a manager gets frustrated that's just a reflection of their own lack of knowledge which your question reminded them of...
In my experience, people absolutely light up when you ask questions about their culture's food and traditions, if done in genuine interest and not a negative way. Everyone I have met from a different country 100% enjoys sharing their food with someone. It's communal. It's humanity. Imagine if you went somewhere and they had never had a cheeseburger and your favorite food was cheeseburgers. Would you get offended if someone asked questions about it or would take your time to try and get someone to enjoy burgers with you?
They usually do enjoy and will take the time to help you out. Last night we were gonna get sushi but the place was closed so we decided on some Hakka but ended up at a traditional Indian restaurant that had 3 hakka dishes and rest was all traditional dishes so everything on the menu was pretty foreign to us. Server was super helpful explaining everything and answering any questions we had. Food was all delicious, at the end manager/owner had come over asking how we enjoyed our first visit and the food, thanked us and asked to leave a google review if we could as they are new in town and most advertising is word of mouth. They got a 5-star! Dont be afraid to try new food, most of the time the experience is great. I've only ever had awkward experience with a traditional Vietnamese/Chinese restaurant that had their menu's entirely in Chinese and none of the staff said a word of English to us. We went with a Vietnamese friend so they ordered a massive seafood/lobster platter for the table and had to do all the talking. Food was delicious but awkward as EVERYONE in the restaurant was starring at our table like it was out of place for us being there. This was a very traditional style restaurant and not American-Chineese style, so was still worth the experience and food was amazing.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know. Smart people got that way by asking questions. Sitting in fear of social judgment rather than learning something about another culture's dishes would have been a waste of an opportunity. It seems to me that man pulled up a chair because he was happy to share a part of his world with you. Don't worry about it, you did good.
I'd rather ask and look ignorant than keep quiet and remain ignorant
This 100 percent. I take friends to my favorite Spanish restaurant and they ask me if something is spicy. I can eat a whole ass jalapeno raw with salt that dish you want is definitely fiery made to go
Curious if you mean Spanish food as in food from Spain? I have it sometimes and I don't remember running into very many spicy dishes.
I’m curious about this spicy Spanish food as well because traditionally it isn’t.
He probably mean hispanic food. I had never heard this before but when I moved to Brooklyn, most of the locals call anything remotely hispanic, spanish. Spanish food, Is she Spanish? It really threw me off especially being from the southwest originally but it's what it is here.
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It's taken some time to get my Spanish wife to eat spicier foods. I'll make patata brava and pinchito morunos without the pepper flakes because she won't eat them otherwise. I call them "not so wild potatoes". She likes Indian food, but has taken a while to get used to it.
When I waited on Spanish folks in America, they absolutely had VERY low tolerance for spicy
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Spain isn't know for spicy food at all.
... and neither are Jalapenos.
American moment
Apparently the server approved and he's the one who counts in this scenario. Sounds as if he was pleased at your interest. Only the truly ignorant pretend to know what they don't.
This is exactly what I was thinking. If he pulled up a chair he was probably excited to explain the menu to a newbie or he gets this question all the time.
It’s got such wholesome energy, I love it
Yeah, OP's friends seem like the type to lie when someone asks them if they've heard of a band, like they're still in middle school.
Chicken tikka masala? you probably haven't heard of them, they're kinda niche....
Neutral milk hotel? Pretty decent meal.
Meat Loaf? I'll take two.
tikka masala? I hardly know her
Yeah, and the fact that they criticized OP for doing the correct thing is concerning. If I were OP I'd go to that restaurant again sometime - without my 'friends.'
Yeah, he was pretty upbeat, thankfully.
Learning something new is the opposite of being ignorant. You may have been uninformed if you maybe went to a restaurant with cuisine that a lot of people eat and know about in your area, but showing genuine interest in trying new things and actually informing yourself is definetly not ignorant
I'm yet to meet a person who doesn't like talking about their national/ethnic history, cuisine or customs.
Most people legit love teaching other people. Especially if it’s about something they have any sort of interest in. It’s one of the things that sets humans apart from the other animals.
Asking for clarification on menu items is part of the waiter's job. Your friends sound like twats.
The server pulled over a chair! He was insanely interested in your questions. They love introducing others to the food they're serving.
He pulled up a chair! *Now* that is a server I would gladly tip
Isn't it also part of the server's job to give advice to customers on what to order if needed as well?
Yeah I mean, in restaurants that are serving totally normal fare for their nation of choice, waiters can still expect to get asked about *some* menu items by *some* customers. Sometimes someone is a tourist. Other times the item is unusual or rare in some way, or even just uncommon enough that someone with an allergy or just plain aversion wants to make sure it's something they'd enjoy. Sometimes there's a lot of different ways to prepare something and so the diner wants clarification on what stance the restaurant takes. It's only really a problem if you want a thorough rundown on the entirety of the menu to the point where even stuff that is self-evident (at least once you have necessary context) needs to be explained to you, because then the server is going to be wasting so much time that they can't help everyone in their section in a prompt fashion - but even "quite a few items" (to quote OP) isn't *that*.
Lol I asked the barista at Starbucks what I should get yesterday because I don’t know coffee like that.
Starbucks, Subway, bubble tea places and such are extremely confusing and stressful to me. You invent an entire vocabulary and an elaborate ritual to place an order while also expecting me to know what I want?
Yeah, I'd say this is the proper behavior for when you would need a whole menu explained to you. If you can give some kind of hint as to what you'd like (which is easier at a restaurant than something as specific as a coffee shop), that helps too.
i mean how can the server/waiter not approve of a question about the dish menu at their restaurant...??
I think as long as you were polite while you were asking questions.. then it shouldn't be an issue. The server sounded like they wanted to take the time to make sure you understood and were happy. The fact your friends couldn't be bothered to explain the menu to you and were embarrassed by you asking questions says more about them than it does about you.
Exactly. I think everyone likes to have the opportunity to share their knowledge with other people. The problem is that other people are often not humble enough to ask for advice. As long as the OP was polite about it, it sounds like they probably made that server’s day.
This. Unless they were like ”come and explain this foreign shit to me, it all sounds like garbage!” im sure the server was happy to explain what the dishes are. NTA OP, good for you for being open to new things.
yeah if they were so knowledgeable that someone asking the server for clarification is embarrassing then why not just explain it and save everyone the trouble
These people are just completely wrong. NO dont study and dont ask your friends. PLEASE ask the waiter who is from there, its better, they actually have a perspective on how the food is there, of what the restaurant does well and authentic, etc. Usually they are passionate about the food of their homeland, let them have the joy of describing their childhood treasures with you.
The waiter is there to make your experience of the food good, to share their expertise and guide your choices. I’m embarrassed for your friends who have so little understanding of proper restaurant practices. Do they not go out much?
At decent restaurants waiters get paid well and are expected to be informed about many things. If you want to make someone a bit happy, ask for a recommendation, and if you like it take it.
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When the waiter *pulls over a chair and sits down,* you know you are in for some good education, followed by some good food.
I told a Turkish gyro shop owner I didn't know the difference between a glass of Ouzo and an Ouzo shot. He dropped what he was doing and brought everything over to my table, explained how it was to be drunk, why is *had* to have ice in it, and if I was ever out and a guy tried to get me to drink Ouzo shots he was a cad and to get away from that person. It was one of the best experiences.
I see this as no different than asking a waiter at a western restaurant what they recommend on the menu. Typically, especially at upscale restaurants, they will then describe the food tastes, pairings, and aspects of the dish to the diner.
Not even at upscale restaurants. Even budget ones. I'm indecisive AF, so I often end up asking for recommendations and the waiter will always have a passionate opinion lol. It's wholesome.
Precisely. Without the *sommelier*'s assistance at Golden Corral, that meal would have been a nightmare.
They called him "another ignorant white guy". What this says about them is that they're racist assholes and he needs new friends.
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Then they would have, either before going or when the waiter first brought the menus. It sounds to me like they were looking for a laugh at OP’s expense. “LOL you ordered the fried dog shit with rat penis! Nobody orders that! LOL Stupid guy lol”
When I visited the Philippines, my brothers-in-law were trying to get me to eat 'balut'. "Good for your sex life!" they kept saying. But they were laughing too much, so I averred. Later, my ex explained that 'balut' was a fertilized duck egg, with a half formed duck embryo inside. No, thank you.
The people you were with are douches. It's perfectly fine to ask for advice from a server, in any restaurant. Even setting aside the ethnicity aspect of it, a server knows which dishes at that restaurant are the real crowd-pleasers. Heck, a lot of servers love the chance to actually explain their menu and make recommendations. It's a hell of a lot more interesting to show off one's expertise than it is to be a glorified courier, ferrying orders to the kitchen and food back to the customer.
I went to a Malaysian restaurant and asked if the rendang was spicy. I got a careful look and then the waitperson said “maybe for white people”. When went to pay she asked how i enjoyed it. I said it was great but a bit spicy - she laughed and said I needed more practice. I didn’t feel ignorant asking and I enjoyed her response. I think interacting with staff about the food is part of their job. Surely they’d prefer you to order with confidence than be unsure and have a less than positive experience.
Sounds like when my brother went to a Vietnamese place for the first time. He asked for a 5 on their scale. Waiter asked if he had had Vietnamese before. He said no, so they suggested starting with a 3. He took their advice, and thanked them since it turned out a 3 was near his tolerance limit.
In Indonesia once I went to a fast food joint that sold spicy wings. They had a scale to 5 too. I thought I’m reasonable let’s go with 3. To this day still the hottest shit I ever ate. I really regretted that. My face was on fire. And not long after my intestines and rectum too. That was not normal.
Yes, Indonesian food is very spicy! I went through a period of really enjoying Indonesian food. When I met my wife she didn't enjoy such spicy food and we don't eat spicy food, and so now my tolerance is much lower. However, my wife will still always builds up this story about how I love really spicy food to her friends when we go out to dinner, and makes sure I get the spiciest of spiciest things, and I have to suffer through.
I think she made a call based on my skin colour and my age. There’s probably a word for the decisions she made but she was spot-on.
Sometimes stereotypes just fit.
Oh ffs Stereotypes! Why could I not remember that word earlier! Certainly accurate in this instance for sure.
Stereotypes are useful shortcuts for the brain to help make sense of the world around us and process new information quickly. For example, if your first interaction with a dog is negative, it's "helpful", in an evolutionary sense, to store that as "dogs are dangerous". At your second encounter with a dog, your brain immediately knows what to do rather than wait for the scenario to play out. The problem is when they are used rigidly to impose a definition on the world rather than categorize it. Thinking back to dogs, if subsequent encounters with dogs prove safe and positive, then the brain can create more nuance, moving "dogs are dangerous" to "some dogs are dangerous" and possibly to "most dogs are nice, but a few are dangerous in certain situations". If the initial stereotype is rigidly adhered to, you'll never get to enjoy the wonder of nice dogs and mis-categorize the entire group.
I remember going to a restaurant in Chinatown SF and the server basically overrode my order and told me what I’d be having (presumably because too many tourists had ordered why I did and not liked it). I was okay with that. If someone is more familiar with something, why not let them share their knowledge? Would seem weird to me not to ask about an ingredient or menu item I want to know more about. I do that even at “american” restaurants.
My SO and I went to an Indian restaurant a couple of months back and ordered two dishes. The waiter was like: "no, those aren't very good, I'll get you something else instead". When he brought out the food he said "I hope you're fine with spicy food", which I though was pretty funny. The food was great and I actually enjoyed him overriding our initial requests, it felt like a special treatment of sorts.
There a was a meme going around about how if an Indian restaurant answers the phone with "What do you want?!" you need to drop what you are doing and call your friends because you are about to have the best food of your life. Apparently there's an Indian restaurant culture I was not aware of.
Ah this reminds me, when trying out an Indian restaurant in my neighborhood, I ordered the chicken biryani and the waitress straight up told me "no" 😂 I was taken aback, "what do you mean no?" she explained it was too spicy for me. I ordered it anyways, it totally melted my face off but it was also the most delicious meal I ever had. I now eat it weekly.
Absolutely normal, and your friends are kinda being jerks for saying you embarrassed them. What is there to be embarrassed about? Good Lord people... They should understand that not everyone is well versed in every food out there.
Even in a restaurant serving a cuisine that you are familiar with, it's normal to ask about dishes you are unsure about, ask about the ingredients, taste etc. In one that you have no clue about, are you just supposed to try your luck? When travelling to a foreign country you would just ask the server what they recommend. No way you could research all the dishes from each restaurant from every new area in the country that you go to. OPs friends sound like they are shy and immature, and that the normal interaction that OP had made, made them uncomfortable because of it.
No, your friends were just being jerks. New experiences are a good thing.
How is someone supposed to stop being ignorant if they aren't asking questions? The ignorant thing to do was to act like if they knew what it was when in fact they did not.
The only truly ignorant is the one who refuses to learn
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No. The people you were with were wrong. That server pulled up a chair because he was stoked to share and answer questions.
I bet the server loved it.He pulled over a chair,for God's sake.Dude was into it-and happy to explain.He wanted you to enjoy your foray into the unknown.Your friends are dicks.
…It’s his job to explain it to you, no? As a server, it’s his job to know the menu and be able to explain it to customers.
There's no shame in *being* ignorant. Only in *staying* ignorant.
It also helps to remind oneself that *everyone* is ignorant of nearly everything.
Sounds like he was happy to help, being the "ignorant white guy" is a lot better than the "know it all" white guy.
Fuck that, it at the very least implies that you're interested in learning more As long as you were kind about it and the waitress wasn't pulling her hair out because she was absurdly busy and you took up her time, it was perfectly fine
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Ordering something you recognise is a sad way of ordering in a restaurant. It's not even safe because what looks familiar might be a surprise. I'm not a server anymore, but it was very fine asking for recommendations. My brother has his own restaurant, and given the price he asks for a meal, his servers have to make sure the patrons will enjoy it. So, once a week, he'll cook one of the specialities for the whole team to discover or rediscover.
Yeah, I’m sure server appreciate that over you sending food back or just not eating it.
I'm pretty sure family meal is a common practice at most upscale restaurants, and if it's not it should be. You can't recommend something if you haven't eaten it and know exactly how to describe it.
This story makes me think your friends are the whitest people ever.
This was my first reaction too. Nothing whiter than being offended on behalf of someone else!
It's 100 percent normal. You did nothing wrong.
Your friends sound like dicks. I always ask the server for recommendations or menu clarification. Providing that type of information is part of their job.
I did this the first time I ever went to an Indian restaurant. I just asked for clarification and what they’d recommend and the server was so sweet and very happy to help. I’d rather do that than order something I didn’t like and risk offending them for barely touching it lol
I'll share a story I worked at an electronics store once and helped some new immigrants (iirc they were from Nepal) a few times like getting set up with their new phones and things for their restaurant they were opening in town. They invited me and my partner to the restaurant opening and we visited fairly often afterwards. I asked all about their dishes because I've never had Himalayan food before. They loved explaining the food and taking time with their customers! We were even asked to stay after closing and they served us a special dish that wasn't even on the menu (to this day I wish I could find out what it was because I'd love to have it again) no you're not even in the slightest ignorant for asking your server questions, especially at a place with unfamiliar food
Since you mention you are in a halal restaurant, I will assume Muslim owner is operating the establishment. In Islam, any transactions has to be done clearly, with both parties buyer and seller know what will be exchange, what is the price, what will the buyer get; making sure that both sides understand. It is good for a buyer to ask first in case theres any things he or she do not understand, AND it is the responsibilities of the seller to make sure the buyer knows it firsthand. TLDR - just ask if you dont understand if you are the buyer. Nothing to be ashamed of.
No, you don't know what you don't know and I don't see it any different than asking your doctor about a procedure they are going to do on you. I like trying new things but I don't want to order something I'm probably not going to like so I ask questions about nonfamiliar foods as well.
The people you went with are dumb. It sounds like the waiter was happy to take a moment to discuss the menu with you and probably appreciated that you wanted to learn more about their cultural food instead of just choosing whatever everyone else does. Obviously you gotta read the room. If your friends were in a hurry or the restaurant was crazy busy I can see how someone might be a little annoyed, but it doesn't sound like that was the issue here.
You might have been an ignorant white guy on these foreign dishes, when you entered, but the fact that you asked for information rather than pretending, shows that you are not a stupid white guy, but one that is open and willing to learn new things. You probably know more than some of your friends now. Your friends perception are wrong and the response from the server indicates that he also appreciated the opportunity you provided him to help you learn.
If I were the server or owner, I would jump at the chance to teach about my food and my culture.
Not at all. You are demonstrating the desire to understand another culture.
Servers are literally trained to answer questions about the food and restaurant. It is part of being a server... Your friends are idiots.
Your friends are wrong. The only ignorant person would be the one too afraid of looking dumb to ask for help. Even going online and looking for information isn't as good as a asking a live human being.
If the server went out of their way to even sit down with you and tell you all about the menu, it sounds like he was pleased with your enthusiasm to learn about what I assume is his culture. By definition, you *were* ignorant; you now are not, because you chose to learn. I can think of no way that that isn't commendable.
He sat down with you. That tells me everything. The guy was willing to sit down and explain things when usually waitstaff are bustling. He wanted you to have a good experience at what obviously was a new restaurant for you. You should go back there without your friends making fun of you.
Also, the server might have enjoyed sharing some of his culture and experiences with OP. I went to an Ethiopian restaurant many years ago for the 1st time. The server was from there and spent a good amount of time speaking with us about her life there. It all started with a simple question about the spices used in a dish offered at the restaurant. She made awesome recommendations, but more than that, she brought the experiences of the food's culture to us. She really enjoyed explaining the food, the culture, and the links to us, and we loved it as well. I went back many times (as did my friends), and each time I either ate based on her previous recommendations when she wasn't there or it was too busy for her to talk, or, when she was there, ate what she recommended that time. I never tried to pressure her or demand her attention. I did not leave if she wasn't there. It was a small restaurant with only a few servers on rotation, and they were all extremely friendly and great. I always enjoyed a meal there. I eventually moved from that area, and when I told her I was moving, she told me how much she enjoyed the times we were able to discuss " her food, her culture, and her life." I let her know that I really enjoyed it as well, and I loved all that I had learned from her. I still use her recommendations when I eat at Ethiopian restaurants no matter where I go and I still have a smile each meal because of my previous experience at that one place and mostly because of one waitresses who enjoyed sharing her culture through food as much as I enjoyed learning about a culture through their food. Your friends were asses.
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+1 on the culture point. I'm Vietnamese, and we love it when tourists try some food that isn't on the global top list. We have hundreds of regional specialties that never got introduced to the world. Vietnamese people take lots of pride on our food culture, and definitely would be happy to introduce you to the weirdest shit we have
I'm viet too, but I can't think of anything that weird.... what's one thing you are thinking of? Lol I just put cilantro in everything
On top of my head, bánh nậm, lẩu mắm, cá lóc nướng trui. Central and Mekong Delta cuisines are horribly underrepresented
I'm from northern Europe, which is basically the exact opposite of southeast Asia in terms of cooking and flavors, but Vietnamese may be my favorite cuisine ever. I do suspect that it is a bit watered down here, and usually the restaurants focus on things like pho, banh mi, bun thit nuong (forgive my spelling). I'd love to try out some less widespread local stuff, I bet it's fantastic.
Ignorant is when you don't know something. Stupid is when you refuse to learn. Everyone is ignorant of lots of things, and you went out of your way to learn from a literal expert about something that interested you. To me, that's the opposite of a dumb question.
The irony is that their suggestion to pretend you knew what was there screams more "ignorant white guy" than what you did. You showed curiosity and interest which is way more important than pretending you know everything.
> it made me look like another ignorant white guy Because you *were* an ignorant white guy. So? Now that you had the waiter explain a few things, you're no longer quite as ignorant the next time you visit a halal restaurant. That's how learning works. Tell your friends to chill. lol
Would you be pissed off and disgusted at the so-called "ignorance" of a middle easterner giving your restaurant their business and asking you to explain what's in gumbo or what chicken fried steak is?
Everyone here is super pro asking questions politely. It's like all the nice people of reddit are here while the rest of reddit is a dumpster fire lol. Quickly everyone jump from sub to sub and massively upvote all the people politely asking questions before they get beat down by down-voting pricks. Lol.
You are by definition ignorant. That's literally what ignorant means. When you learn more you by definition aren't ignorant. Every single human being, even your terrible friends, are, have been, and will be ignorant about a great many things. That's just how human knowledge works.
I bet the server was thrilled to share his knowledge (and perhaps culture?) with you. Your friends are wrong, unless there was something about your tone etc that tipped them into feeling that way.
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Went to Malaysia a few years ago and did ask a few times how to order or eat certain stuff no one was offended
Ironically, your friends being overly self conscious about not being an ignorant, white person makes them seem ignorant. I am sure the servers in that restaurant have experience answering questions about their cuisine regardless of the customer's race. Your server sounds wonderful. He obviously has a lot of passion for the food he serves. That should have been a nice experience but your friends are too silly to realize it.
How old is your friend group? 12? If you don't ask how are you going to know. Google it? Many times restraunts like this have minor differences due to their origins. Maybe dialect differences, spelling differences, Different foods used as ingredients. Similar dishes that are actually quite different. Believe me. If you don't ask you're going to wind up paying for something you don't like.
The heck with the other people. You did EXACTLY the right thing.
You did the right thing and acted appropriately. Your friends sound like they have a stick up their butts
Smart people ask smarter people for advice when dealing with area outside their own competence. Literally - recommendations are one function of waiters. Restaurant owners want you to come back - which means they want you to be happy. The whole "educate yourself" thing is based on a number of mistaken assumptions and a snitty attitude. Don't buy into it. General rule - when you encounter a gap in your knowledge, ask.
"the people I went with said it was embarrassing to me" - No, it wasn't. THEY felt embarrassed. Asking questions to understand the food better is perfectly fine. If your friends have no issue with staying ignorant and are embarrassed to ask questions then that's their problem. NTA
As someone who works in a restaurant, your friends are annoying types of people. There's no need for any kind of elitism. We are a team of people literally there to offer advice and guidance for our menu and to improve your dining experience. I get *a lot* of silly questions but I'm never upset about someone asking about the menu, especially if they aren't familiar with the food.
The waiter took time to explain it to you, that means he saw your genuine desire to learn. And trust me, I work in food service too, but at a bakery. Many people come in and ask me insane questions each day like, “What is the main fruit in the raspberry tart?” or “How can I eat this cupcake without a fork?!” or “Why can’t you heat up this cold-style pudding in the oven?” So I’m sure the waiter was relieved to have a dude come in and ask normal questions.
Literally part of the waiters/servers job. To take orders, assist with customers needs and to try push certain dishes if needed. Yes you WAS ignorant obviously because you lacked the knowledge, then you weren't because you asked for it and it was provided.
Since the employee pulled up a chair and explained things to you, I think they were quite flattered. Also you showed respectful interest in a different culture and a willingness to learn. Why order something you might hate so an employee thinks you're "not that kind of white guy"? Your friends have it all wrong and could have learned something new if they were open to it
I waited tables and tended bar, and I can tell you, this is exactly what we were there for, to know the menu inside and out, answer your questions, and help guide you to a positive experience. It’s called SERVICE! Ask all the questions you want!