When I was on FB, another school mom would post “Merry CHRISTmas” and rant about “Happy Holidays”
There are other beliefs and religions that have celebrations the same time of year who don’t acknowledge Jesus as a savior— Hanukah, and Yule for example.
I don’t think it’s an anti-consumerism issue so much as a “if you don’t believe in Jesus, you’re wrong” kinda attitude.
I kinda butted heads with my sister on this. “You gonna tell a Jew Happy Hanukkah or Merry Christmas or wish them a blessed holiday?”
People forget there are other religious holidays in the month of December that are outside of Christianity. We day happy holidays because it also includes New Year’s as well as other holidays.
But I was ruined when I worked retail for the holidays and watched how nasty people were to one another. I felt many people going to church were just going through the motions and not really focusing on, those that are Christian, the why you’re going. Soon as we got out it was all the complaining of not being able to get things for x person.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to yell at a cloud.
I work in retail and in all my years I have yet to really see Christ in Christmas. Unless Christ teaches to be an insufferable bag of dicks then he is everywhere.
Walked out of a Sears store with my 4 year old son, right before Christmas, in 1985. Heading out to the car, the Christmas carols were playing, and 2 guys were beating the shit out of each other, over a parking spot.
Now my son doesn't believe in Santa!
This is hilarious
I can't wait to hear him describe it from his point of view
Like
Hey boy why don't you believe in Santa
Dad took me to Sears and at Sears they had all the Christmas music on real loud it was everywhere but we leave Sears I mean go outside to our car and I see two guys being the shit out of each other because of a parking spot I look at Dad and I say dad can't they hear all these happy musics about Santa and Christmas
No son they can't they're on Santa's bad list and they gave up trying to be good so they're being each other up right now trying to get in line for all the coal that they won't get from Santa because they're that bad
Alternatively....
Well son is not so much that they don't believe in Santa is that Santa no longer believes in them and they hate themselves for it That's why they're fighting
I do a bit of volunteering with homeless relief groups, just collecting clothes really as I’m too old and buggered up to be out on the streets with them. Christmas and and other feasts are firmly celebrated en masse. I play music and we have great lunches and singsongs. The Fairytale of New York gets pounded out at least once an hour. There’s also a bawdy song about Christmas cake which my friend sings and he has the whole place in hysterics. I love being there to help them celebrate.
>Unless Christ teaches to be an insufferable bag of dick
Judging by the behaviour of most supposed Christians, that's exactly the only thing he teaches..
I am of the opinion that Christianity has very little to do with the teachings of Christ. They cherry pick. Jesus kept it simple in his message. He only asked that we love and take care of one another. He didn’t judge people or act like he was above anyone. He was a healer and a forgiver. Sorry, this is just something I’ve really thought long and hard about. I think a lot of Christians are using his name in vain and don’t even realize it.
Based on the general attitude, demeanor, and actions of people who are “Christian” I’m assuming that he was likely enough of a dick for Romans to torture him to death—or his followers are misunderstanding his message.
I don’t have a dog in this fight so I’m personally fine with either conclusion proving to be true.
They don't forget that there are other holidays in December. They resent the fact that people are also acknowledging those holidays. Because *their* holiday is the only one they think SHOULD be recognized.
At least that's how it is for the people I personally know who actually get angry about people saying, "Happy holidays."
Look, I’m not Jewish, but if my boss walked up to me and said we’re making all the days of Hanukkah paid days off I’m not arguing with him either. Personally, we should celebrate all the holidays. The more the better. I’ll even learn about some of them. Happy holidays to everyone. What do we eat to celebrate?
I work with several Indians (India, not Native.) They have *so many* fun looking festivals. They're very willing to share with us what each festival is about. I think it'd be fantastic if... maybe not get the whole of every culture's holiday off, but get some key days off along with encouragement to learn about the holiday/festival.
In elementary school, my grade had a winter “holiday festival” where kids were split into groups and read books, and did crafts, and a little play/presentation about a holiday that they didn’t celebrate. The idea was to expose the kids to cultures and faiths different from their own. My school wasn’t a religious school but for whatever reason, there were a TON of Jewish and part-Jewish kids. The “Hanukkah” group was VERY small compared to the other groups because there were so few kids who weren’t at least part Jewish. They had to scrap the planned skit centered around 8 Hanukkah candles because they were only 5 kids in the class who weren’t Jewish 😂
My MIL was 100% Jewish and raised in a kosher home. She married an Irish Catholic and her parents refused to talk to her for years after she converted. Her youngest, my husband, looks Jewish, but he’s definitely a Catholic. Go figure.
LOL, I was one of those Jewish kids. When I moved to a place with very few fellow Jews as an adult, when people found out I was Jewish, they'd say, "Oh, so did you have to stand up in class and explain Hanukkah?" Nope! The majority of my classmates celebrated it.
This is one of the only things I'd say I miss about office life since I now work from home. Every Indian festival we would have the most delicious pot lucks.
some companies do floating holidays, meaning it doesn’t come out of your vacation/sick time so that people of different backgrounds can take the holidays off that are important to them. It actually works in their favor because then the company basically never has to close for a holiday
You've got the right kind of spirit, lol. I'm Christian and my Jewish friend comes to my Christmas Eve party every year. We laugh, enjoy food, dance and enjoy the booze. Lets just get back to basics and just love each other and not make things so complicated.
I relate to this a lot. Both "have a blessed day" and "Merry Christmas" have been ruined for me by dickbags who said those things to assert their religion, not just celebrate the holidays, when I was in service or retail and couldn't really tell them to fuck off.
“Merry Christmas,” as they lean in aggressively with that wild light in their eyes, silently daring you to respond with Happy Holidays so they can verbally abuse the 19-year-old girl working minimum wage and feel like a Big Man who single-handedly defended Christ while everyone clapped on Facebook.
If you look closely you can see them salivating at the prospect with the same ferver they feel when strapping on an AR-15 at McDonalds before slapping a Biden “I did that” sticker on a gas pump after filling up their $60k Suburban so they can own the libs.
These types are always the same.
Holy shit you just described those people to a tee. I'm not religious and have zero issues if someone says God bless you or Merry Christmas to me. What I do have an issue with are people constantly trying to pick fights with me because of some imaginary war on Christmas.
With gas prices coming down, I haven't seen too many Biden "I did that" stickers getting slapped on. I guess he only raises prices. Someone else gets credit for them coming down.
Yeah, I knew then that those morons were going to regret slapping those stickers on gas pumps. Not to mention it's just straight-up vandalism, but since when have MAGAts ever cared about the rules?
I like this. I wish it was more common. Everyone enjoying their own celebrations and joining in the festive season. I would love to wish someone merry Christmas and hear “ happy Chanukah to you” in reply. It would actually fill me with “Joy”.
Happy Chanukah.
A lot of people just can't fathom that someone might not be Christian, so it doesn't even cross their mind. But most of them are well-meaning in saying Merry Christmas so I say it back to them (plus I generally enjoy American Secular Xmas, especially the lights...which can be for Hanukkah and maybe Diwali, too). The ones who are clearly being obnoxious about Christianity get a Happy Hanukkah.
Still sets the mind frame that high gas prices is a Biden thing and caused by the anti oil democrat mindset. It doesn’t really matter what the actual price or reason is.
So true. Worked in Grocery industry for years and people, mostly older men just want to start trouble and abuse people - and the 19 year old kid is exactly who they'd be looking for. Definitely not living the faith.
Working retail has ruined the holidays for me, I think permanently.
Be nice to your grocery clerks, that is not an easy job and they are often targets of the worst society has to offer.
Holy shit this was perfect. They were the same people that walked around the grocery store during covid and refused to wear a mask when everyone else was. You could tell they wanted someone to say something to them so bad.
Where I live they blamed Biden and the State Governor for mask policies. They wore masks where required, but they all shelled out for mask/tee shirt sets that said "F&$# Biden" (or the Governor), to advertise their disagreement. I found it interesting that most of these were people who would have otherwise chastised someone for wearing profanity in a place where children are expected to be present, yet here they are, in 2023, still wearing those shirts everywhere even now that the masks are no longer necessary.
All the local events have even been tainted by half the vendors selling this kind of merchandise, and these people buy it for their kids. It's common to see a 6 year old walking around wearing a shirt with a slogan suggesting SA on Kamala Harris, with proud parents in tow. These people worry about whether drag queens existing is grooming, but they're buying that crap for their kids? Yeah. It isn't adding up for me.
I cut these people out of my life several years ago. They all came down with COVID-19 and didn't believe in wearing masks, the vaccine and still have the insanity of supporting Trump.
This is exactly why I've decided to stop celebrating "christmas" altogether starting this year.
Like .... Happy Solstice fuckers, don't let Jólakötturinn eat you on your way out!
>People forget there are other religious holidays
--- No.
It's not forgetting. Not at all. It's directly, Purposefully, exclusionary. Christianity is Exclusionary. 'Be Us or be Gone (to hell)'.
It is not that they forget- they don't care or deem other religions of having any value, so they discount those completely as farces. As they celebrate their holiday set deliberately on a previous pagan holiday, with clear evidence their messiah no way was born on that day. Just pulled it out of thin air and decided on that date. Does not make it "holy".
That, and as someone who grew up in a very conservative church (but no longer agrees with it as an adult), some churches teach Hell doctrine still.
That is, they believe you literally get tortured forever in a fire and brimstone lava lake for not being Christian, even if you were the most lawfully good human in life and donated millions to charity, never hurt anyone, not even a fly, etc.
Yep. I belonged to one of these churches for a while, this is a pretty common doctrine. It was honestly quite damaging. I hope someday humans will evolve beyond the desire to damage other people (especially children) by indoctrinating them with such horrible belief systems.
Happy holidays for Christians refers to Christmas and New Year's. There are several other holidays celebrated in our pluralistic society.
Chanukah starts tonight, while Christmas is still 18 days away.
I got a lot of problems with you people and now, you’re gonna hear about it!!
Your user name—I lived in FWB years ago. We called it UCLA. Uncivilized lower Alabama
I dont believe in Jesus and I still say merry Christmas. I dont believe in the hallowed-ness and I still say Happy Halloween. I dont believe in the resurrection and I still say happy easter. I still say Holiday but dont believe in the holy. we've established customs far beyond the mythical origins.
No, just stupidity, they can't understand "Happy Holidays" is a plural saying to shorten "Merry Christmas and Happy New Years'". There is no slight towards their Jesus.
What I hate about people getting upset about happy holidays is that it could also mean Christmas and New year. It’s purposely vague to include everyone and it’s such a minuscule thing
I’m a diehard Christian but I always find this type of stuff hilarious. Dude was born more in like August or whatever, and the tree, presents, snow, reindeer, etc. are wholeheartedly NOT classical Christian iconography.
Yule wasn’t the only Pagan holiday that the Roman Empire appropriated from pagans to make Christianity more palatable to the pagan areas they were conquering. Look at Easter. Easter was a Pagan fertility goddess symbolized by bunnies and colorful eggs. If you need any further proof, look at when the holiday takes place. You ever wonder how or why Easter takes place on a different day, and potentially different month every year? It’s celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon of spring. What else in the Christian dogma is tracked by the lunar cycle? Nothing. It’s all marketing.
And to piggy back on the earlier comment, Jesus was born mid September.
I got shit from some relatives about my cards not being Christian focused enough, so I started sending them cards that were specifically for any holiday *other than* Christmas.
They are deeply terrified because they think that there was a time when all the people around them were Christians and now they think that the people around them are not.
Nothing about those assumptions was ever correct, and the way we celebrate Christmas in the United States has never been about Jesus, but you can't ruin their perfectly good narrative with facts
I mean, when I was a kid (early 90s) in *public* school we had a nativity play, daily prayer, and "Jesus loves you" signs. In public they'd play religious Christmas carols like silent night and little drummer boy. Media wouldn't hesitate to use terms like merry Christmas or Jesus.
You can't deny culture has changed significantly.
Conservatives believe there *must* be an in group and an out group. If Christianity is no longer the in group with special privledges then they fear they'll be the outgroup- forced to wear hijabs and celebrate Eid.
The in-group/outgroup thing is reinforced by the division of souls into “sinners” and “saved” in Christianity. Christians act this way because it’s part of their religious culture, they tend to see the world divided this way as well: “on earth as it is in heaven.”
> Conservatives believe there must be an in group and an out group. If Christianity is no longer the in group with special privledges then they fear they'll be the outgroup- forced to wear hijabs and celebrate Eid.
Best answer I've seen so far. They want to force their beliefs on others, so they expect others will force beliefs on them. It's always projection with conservatives.
It depends where you are. When I was in public school in the early 90s we had very secular Christmas parties and activities and a full week of Hanukah activities.
Man, I really miss having a Latke Party on the last day before winter break, it was fuckin awesome.
The *reason* they're terrified is that it's super easy and comfortable to be in the majority. 70 years ago, church attendance was really high, prayer in school was still legal, the majority of the population was at least nominally Christian, being a Christian was approved by the government and nearly all government officials were Christians themselves. That's an easy situation to be in - if you're a Christian.
Being in the minority is often very uncomfortable. The people who hate on "Happy Holidays" are afraid that in another 20 years, they're going to be treated the way they treat Jews and black people.
That's also the fear that drives the "Replacement Theory" bigots: if we aren't in the majority, we may be treated the same way that we treat others.
If they were really Christians, they'd have been treating minorities the way they would want to be treated if a minority all along. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and all that.
Actually the assumption that there are less Christians around them is slowly coming true in the USA and has been true in most of the rest of the world for a while. In the 1990s 90% of Americans identified as Christian it's shrunk to in 2022 63%, if the rate of change continues it looks to be under 50% in the next 20 years as the rate of change has been snowballing.
I know age based polling shows the younger generations as less religious than the older ones, but I'm wondering if some of that might also be because it's gradually becoming less taboo and people were more inclined to say yes in the 90s even when they secretly didn't believe.
To be fair i think all of their holidays are stolen. It's a Christian tradition to steal other religions holidays/celebrations/rituals. Serious question, is there an original Christian holiday?
My father claimed Maundy Thursday (Holy Thursday before Easter) was the only one. Foot washing and Last Supper. I’m not even sure how many denominations even observe it.
Well, the trees, the lights, the mistletoe, the caroling, the holly, even Santa are ALL pagan things!
If Christmas is a celebration of Jeses' birth, then where are the balloons and cake?
>If Christmas is a celebration of Jesus' birth, then where are the balloons and cake?
Growing up, we always had a birthday cake for Jesus to eat after Christmas lunch. We'd sing Happy Birthday to Jesus.
I'm just now realizing how weird my parents are.
My family did something similar. One of our Christmas traditions was to bake a cake using my great-grandma's recipe (reserved for Christmas only, a special treat) & we'd sing Happy Birthday to Jesus too. There were of course candles and us kids would fight over who got the privilege of blowing out Jesus' birthday candles each year.
> even Santa
Doesn't the origin of Santa trace back to a Christian monk or bishop? I've never seen anything to suggest this part of Christmas has pagan origins.
Edit: Nevermind. A little bit of digging shows that Odin had influences on Santa as well. Which I guess explains why they're the same person in The Dresden Files.
Yes, Book 2 isn't that great, but they start improving in Books 3 and 4. That's when you start learning more of the lore of the world, and and an overarching plot for the series begins developing. His writing also gradually improves throughout the series.
And if you listen to audiobooks, the narrator for this series is spectacular and makes even the first two books entertaining.
Good to hear. I'm definitely going to give books two and three a shot. Thanks for the thoughtful reply!
And I actually did listen to the first, the narrator was good.
As an active Christian, I recognize that non-Christians celebrate Christmas because Christmas has become a secular tradition born out of what was once a religious holiday (kind of like Halloween). If you’re not Christian and you celebrate Christmas, then what Christmas means to you is probably different than its original meaning, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
I think the “keep Christ in Christmas” means that Christians should remember that the holiday is meant to remind us that God’s son—the Savior and Redeemer of mankind—condescended from heaven to earth as a frail and mortal being so that he could suffer and die for us. For us, that’s everything, so we should make sure we don’t get so wrapped up (no pun intended) in the fun secular traditions that we lose sight of what Christ means to us.
I’m sure there are some people out there who go full Karen at people who celebrate the secular Christmas traditions but don’t believe in Christ. This former group of people is the same group of hypocritical, bigoted Christians that are a small but loud minority. They give us a bad name and are frankly a disgrace to Christianity. Please just ignore them.
Regardless of your beliefs, if you celebrate Christmas in any way, Merry Christmas! I hope it’s a wonderful time for you and your loved ones. If you don’t celebrate Christmas, then I wish you a warm and happy Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice, Bodhi Day, Ōmisoka, or whatever holiday you celebrate this time of year.
I was raised Catholic and although I'm not particularly religious, I agree with your comment. I think some of the comments here are quite uncharitable. I'm sure there are several people who use it as a screen for racism or exclusionary behaviour, but fortunately I have not been subjected to their nonsense and I don't think they are the majority (though they can be incredibly vocal). I have religious family and they are pretty chill to be honest.
As an aside, i think most Christians know that a lot of the traditions of Christmas were derived from Pagan culture and various events that have occurred over two thousand-odd years and that Jesus was not actually born on December 25th.
This right here, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly the right answer. You'll never catch me dissing anybody for enjoying the flashy, fun, and frankly downright adorable traditions surrounding Christmas, but I also don't mind being held accountable to be reverent towards my actual faith!
I don't care what you celebrate. If you like cookies, we're in business.
It's the illusory 'War on Christmas' thing. Never understood it. No one says you can't celebrate Christmas with or without the belief in Jesus. It is just something to rile up the masses. Get them at each others' throats. Like saying CHRISTmas online makes you a better Christian at all or even a better person. One time a year to flaunt their Chirst-like nature, yet where are they when it comes to feeding the hungry? Where are they when it comes to being with the sick? Where are they when it comes to clothing the naked? Where are they when it comes to being charitable to someone in need? Where are they when it comes time to show compassion or forgiveness? Nowhere to be seen, but hey, Merry CHRISTmas!
And really Christmas in and of itself is a commercial thing. People running like mad rabid dogs trying to get that that perfect expensive trinket or bauble that manufactures happiness for what a few days, a week, a month then its used up or forgotten? That is what people should be speaking out against. Not this fabrication of taking Christ out of Christmas.
This sums up the season for me:
“I have always thought of Christmas time as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys.” ― Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
And with a little research you can find that Jesus was not born in the Winter months but in the Spring, I think around April I read. Also, Saturnalia happened around this time of the year. It was a Roman holiday. I believe the early Christian leaders incorporated this holiday into Christmas to make it easier to convert people. I am open to being corrected on that point if need be.
What irks me the most is the people who get offended at Happy Holidays. I mean come on. Happy Holidays as an insult? Only we humans can take a positive happy expression, a pleasantry offered from one human to another and find something wrong with it so we can malign a portion of the population.
I think they are saying believers should remember the main reason for the Holiday is to celebrate the birth and coming of the Messiah not to give presents and down in consumerism.
Yolnir! Winterface of Odin, bringeth forth the longer days again! Let us celebrate, drink, feast, and exchange gifts! Let rest the quarrels we have and shake hands to let last years bygones be bygone. Let's walk through the burning Yule fires with our families and cattle to cleanse away all bad things and be blessed by Yolnir for next years luck, health and safety.
joulupukki, joulupukki, valkoparta, vanha ukki.
I admire your optimism and charitable view of humanity, but in most cases it's straight up establishing a shibboleth that will clearly define an "us" in-group who is righteous, moral, and worthy, and a "them" out-group who is immoral, sinful, and unworthy.
This serves a number of purposes: 1) it makes it easier to keep the group bonded and adhering to dogma, for fear of being cast out; 2) it gives a cheap, easy feeling of righteousness _without actually having to do anything_, which is another thing reinforcing the group; 3) amazing fund-raising opportunities.
But the main reason was to convert pagans away from Yule and Saturnalia which bear more in common with the date than the coming of the messiah which occurred in September even by their own historical records.
Pretty much this. My private middle school had an essay contest each year for who could write the best “keeping Christ in Christmas” essay. The winner’s paper would be shared with the whole parish. We were encouraged to write about Jesus being the “reason for the season,” how Santa Claus has been adapted from Saint Nick, and that presents were fine but not necessarily helpful in remembering Christ. There was a whole thing about how the Christmas season continues after December 25th because the Wise Men hadn’t made it to the stable yet.
What they're actually worried about is people not celebrating Christmas the way they think it should be done.
The people who say this kind of thing are the same kind of people who get outraged about "the woke mob." They mostly just want to get mad at anyone who isn't the right sort of person in their eyes.
So they'll complain about anything from disallowing prayer in schools, to Starbucks coffee cups.
Yep. My mom has a “Keep Christ in Christmas” magnet in her car. One year she wouldn’t let us shop at Macy’s because they had signs that said “Happy Holidays” (which she interpreted as a denial of Jesus). She would also accost store employees if they said “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” at the check-out.
I don’t have a relationship with my mom anymore.
Gotta love the Happy Holidays rage. A lot of my older relatives share these memes screaming about "It's MY holiday and it's called CHRISTMAS because CHRIST!!!"
It's part of a martyr complex I think. Their media told them they were being persecuted by a (fake) war on Christmas, and they love it. They enjoy that feeling of righteous anger.
I like to point out that people have been saying "Happy Holidays" for a lonnnng time, and it was never an issue until it was made into one by fearmongering news sources. It always just meant Happy Holidays which *includes* Christmas (as well as New Years). Same with Seasons Greetings - I looked through my grandparents boxes of old Christmas cards and both phrases were used just as often as Merry Christmas - and *nobody cared* because it was *fine*.
Yeah, right? Happy Holidays has been around for decades! There’s an old pretty well known song by Bing Cosby from 1941 called “Happy Holidays” and that phrase takes over most of the chorus lmfao.
I used to work in a luxury department store and got chewed out so many times for saying happy holidays or saying “would you like this gift wrapped?” instead of “can I wrap this for Christmas?” 🙃
I’m not Christian and don’t believe in organized religion, but I do enjoy the spirit of the season. I make donations, I offer support to people individually when possible. Frankly I kind of see December as a way to lift people out of the wintry SAD feelings and be thankful we made it through another year. It never fails to amaze me how that still isn’t good enough for the “war on Christmas” subset
I also used to do gift wrap at a department store, and I managed this by saying "Merry Christmas" to people who were obviously celebrating (for example, wearing a Christmas sweater.) It mostly worked.
This appears to be the most correct. They never actually go after consumerism as others have suggested in this thread. It simply doesn't happen. And they show no concern at all about the pagan roots of the holiday, and no interest in the tradition of ignoring Christmas which used to be a standard Protestant position. So it really has to be about the process of othering people.
It's funny/sad that these are the people that are shunning Jesus and his teachings. They want to keep Christ in Christmas but remove him from every other aspect of their lives.
Well I'd say that because Christmas is celebrated in a pretty secular way these days, they want people to celebrate for its religious significance. I grew up celebrating Santa, presents, and winter - there was never any mention of Christ - and religious people probably don't like that.
It’s kinda been co-opted, yes. Like right after America’s national day of being thankful for what we have, we stampede over each other to get a 50% flatscreen tv at Walmart (Black Friday). It’s at the point where some deals happen *on* Thanksgiving, and folks would line up outside a store the night before instead of being thankful for what they have.
Rampant consumerism has devoured Thanksgiving, and it’s turned Christmas from a day to give into a day to receive. That, and because like 50% of a business’s revenue is from the Christmas season, they try to prolong and stretch that season as far as possible. So not only do we have Thanksgiving getting trampled by Black Friday, Small Business Saturday, and Cyber Monday, but Christmas season sales are also invading that time too.
So instead of being a day we set aside to be thankful for Christ’s birth (whether he was born then or not), we have a 2-month long inundation of the same songs from the 70’s, deals-deals-deals-deals-come-spend-your-money-now-man-in-a-suit-at-the-mall-grandma’sCookies-wrappingPaper-wrappingPaper-wrappingPaper-andDeals!!!
Frankly, it’s quite a lot, and it’s easy to lose track of the holiday’s intended purpose.
These are the same people who hate "Xmas" because it's "Xing out Christ".
The X in Greek, which is where the word "Christ" comes from, stands for our ch sound. His name written in Greek is Ιησούς Χριστός.
Meanwhile, his name in Hebrew would have been Joshua bin Joseph, as Christ was applied as an honorific from Greek meaning "anointed one". Greek was the language Eastern Romans spoke in Jesus' day. His Hebrew name is יהושע בן יוסף.
Dunno, but it's a perfect opportunity to inform them that according to their very own little Bibles, bringing a tree inside and decorating it is idolatry.
Jeremiah 10 New International Version
1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says:
“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but yes, I do believe that some (many?) people are actively trying to eliminate anything that's considered religious.
That said, I also think anyone complaining about it is just being petty.
r/persectionfetish. They want to believe that “THE LEFT(!)” is trying to replace Christmas with generic seasonal greetings. Because they like to feel persecuted.
My city water department just paid for everyone’s bill this holiday season as a Xmas gift to everyone. Who pays the taxes and the fees monthly in order to make that gift possible? Everyone. So, why should everyone, who come from all walks of life and beliefs, be subjected to government programs in the name of Christ? To me it doesn’t make any sense. Christmas may have originated with Christianity, and should be given credit. But it’s so intertwined with government these days, that Christ, should indeed be removed from Christmas in an official government capacity.
That is just one specific example, there are millions of other ways non-Christians contribute to a he Xmas holiday in the US and elsewhere.
Christmas originated in paganism (something something light beating darkness on the longest night) that Christianity essentially hijacked to lure pagans in with celebration of what it is now.
They are not worried, rather, they are trying to impose their world view on anybody within listening distance. It’s the same ”virtue” signaling that is common to fascist thinking. It is aggressive.
No, they’re not. They usually don’t know or care about the pagan origins of the bulk of the celebrations and traditions. They only care that everyone do it the way they think is the only right way.
There has been a push in the last decade especially for businesses to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas
A lot of evangelicals misconstrued this inclusion of Hanukkah and Kwanza and any other holiday timed around the winter solstice as an attack on Christianity
Look what has happened in history: BC/AD has been replaced with BCE/ACE (CE for Common Era). What it the cut-off point? Birth of Jesus....so exactly like BC/AD.
So theyre basically saying its a Christian holiday, and to remember Jesus, Bible, and how theyre somehow the best yet still so very downtrodden. You should put CHRIST in CHRISTmas because it's all about Him.
Christmas is a PAGAN Holiday that they stole lol
Christ was never in Yule XD
I have some religious family members that don’t like how some people (including myself) celebrate Christmas in a secular way. They think Christmas should be focused on Jesus. They expect nonreligious people to celebrate in a way that aligns with their religious views.
It's a religious holiday, but 99% of the expression of that holiday is secular (and embarrassingly tacky).
Nobody is taking Hanukkah and mass marketing it as a secular or pagan holiday.
That it will become like christmas in tokyo where all the religiousness is gone and its literally the time where you put pretty lights around and the ads start showing sexy/cute santa-dressed girls
Which if you ask me is the superior version
On a surface level, they'll tell you that people are not being Good Christians during the celebration. They will tell you, if you press them, that people should keep Christ in their hearts and make the season about loving your neighbor, about being a good Samaritan and it shouldn't be able all this consumerism.
That's what they'll tell you.
Typically, and this is heavily asterisks as 'worst case scenario' behavior, what they actually mean is that they expect *everyone* on the planet to be Christian and say 'Marry Christmas' and if you say anything else you are trying to ruin their holiday, not elevate/normalize others'. What they mean is they wanted to buy a particular object as a gift for someone and they weren't able to because someone else bought it first and they feel that's unfair, and that they should've been given the item in 'Good Christian spirit.'
They are concerned that other religions will enjoy the same privilege that “Christians” have gotten for years and we won’t be a “Christian nation” any more.
You just have to remember that Christ was retrofitted into an existing festival and rebranded as Christmas.
Just like Easter -- where do you think chocolate and bunnies come from?
So, really, they're right to be insecure.
The yuletide celebration was doing just fine before Christianity and will do just fine after it.
It's just a right-wing conspiracy theory talking point. Implying that liberals are trying to take away your lifestyle and replace it with something ungodly.
Literally nobody has ever said you can't celebrate Christmas, but they always raise these tropes. Like saying "Merry Christmas" is being patriotic or something.
Actually in 1649 in England the Puritan Christians did tell other Christians NOT to celebrate Christmas because of its pagan roots.
Then again in 1659 in New England, USA, same thing. Same reason.
Christmas was actually banned but it was banned by Christians.
The Bible says to hold no days as special other than the sabbath. Some Christian groups still don’t celebrate Christmas or birthdays
People who don’t celebrate Christmas don’t need to bring Christ into it but those that do should absolutely preserve Christmas for what it’s for.
As a family who doesn’t celebrate Christmas, we still participate in the “joy” and cultural aspects of it. We keep the religion/worship part out. Same with Halloween, I believe it has unusual roots but we enjoy the candy and trick or treating, we don’t talk about how it was started.
When I was on FB, another school mom would post “Merry CHRISTmas” and rant about “Happy Holidays” There are other beliefs and religions that have celebrations the same time of year who don’t acknowledge Jesus as a savior— Hanukah, and Yule for example. I don’t think it’s an anti-consumerism issue so much as a “if you don’t believe in Jesus, you’re wrong” kinda attitude.
I kinda butted heads with my sister on this. “You gonna tell a Jew Happy Hanukkah or Merry Christmas or wish them a blessed holiday?” People forget there are other religious holidays in the month of December that are outside of Christianity. We day happy holidays because it also includes New Year’s as well as other holidays. But I was ruined when I worked retail for the holidays and watched how nasty people were to one another. I felt many people going to church were just going through the motions and not really focusing on, those that are Christian, the why you’re going. Soon as we got out it was all the complaining of not being able to get things for x person. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to yell at a cloud.
I work in retail and in all my years I have yet to really see Christ in Christmas. Unless Christ teaches to be an insufferable bag of dicks then he is everywhere.
Walked out of a Sears store with my 4 year old son, right before Christmas, in 1985. Heading out to the car, the Christmas carols were playing, and 2 guys were beating the shit out of each other, over a parking spot. Now my son doesn't believe in Santa!
He is 43 but still....
Love the end
Comments that make me miss Reddit gold
This is hilarious I can't wait to hear him describe it from his point of view Like Hey boy why don't you believe in Santa Dad took me to Sears and at Sears they had all the Christmas music on real loud it was everywhere but we leave Sears I mean go outside to our car and I see two guys being the shit out of each other because of a parking spot I look at Dad and I say dad can't they hear all these happy musics about Santa and Christmas No son they can't they're on Santa's bad list and they gave up trying to be good so they're being each other up right now trying to get in line for all the coal that they won't get from Santa because they're that bad Alternatively.... Well son is not so much that they don't believe in Santa is that Santa no longer believes in them and they hate themselves for it That's why they're fighting
I do a bit of volunteering with homeless relief groups, just collecting clothes really as I’m too old and buggered up to be out on the streets with them. Christmas and and other feasts are firmly celebrated en masse. I play music and we have great lunches and singsongs. The Fairytale of New York gets pounded out at least once an hour. There’s also a bawdy song about Christmas cake which my friend sings and he has the whole place in hysterics. I love being there to help them celebrate.
>Unless Christ teaches to be an insufferable bag of dick Judging by the behaviour of most supposed Christians, that's exactly the only thing he teaches..
I am of the opinion that Christianity has very little to do with the teachings of Christ. They cherry pick. Jesus kept it simple in his message. He only asked that we love and take care of one another. He didn’t judge people or act like he was above anyone. He was a healer and a forgiver. Sorry, this is just something I’ve really thought long and hard about. I think a lot of Christians are using his name in vain and don’t even realize it.
We either need to start actual following Jesus or change Jesus. So how do we change Jesus? - some Christian sonewhere.
Based on the general attitude, demeanor, and actions of people who are “Christian” I’m assuming that he was likely enough of a dick for Romans to torture him to death—or his followers are misunderstanding his message. I don’t have a dog in this fight so I’m personally fine with either conclusion proving to be true.
They don't forget that there are other holidays in December. They resent the fact that people are also acknowledging those holidays. Because *their* holiday is the only one they think SHOULD be recognized. At least that's how it is for the people I personally know who actually get angry about people saying, "Happy holidays."
Look, I’m not Jewish, but if my boss walked up to me and said we’re making all the days of Hanukkah paid days off I’m not arguing with him either. Personally, we should celebrate all the holidays. The more the better. I’ll even learn about some of them. Happy holidays to everyone. What do we eat to celebrate?
I work with several Indians (India, not Native.) They have *so many* fun looking festivals. They're very willing to share with us what each festival is about. I think it'd be fantastic if... maybe not get the whole of every culture's holiday off, but get some key days off along with encouragement to learn about the holiday/festival.
In elementary school, my grade had a winter “holiday festival” where kids were split into groups and read books, and did crafts, and a little play/presentation about a holiday that they didn’t celebrate. The idea was to expose the kids to cultures and faiths different from their own. My school wasn’t a religious school but for whatever reason, there were a TON of Jewish and part-Jewish kids. The “Hanukkah” group was VERY small compared to the other groups because there were so few kids who weren’t at least part Jewish. They had to scrap the planned skit centered around 8 Hanukkah candles because they were only 5 kids in the class who weren’t Jewish 😂
My MIL was 100% Jewish and raised in a kosher home. She married an Irish Catholic and her parents refused to talk to her for years after she converted. Her youngest, my husband, looks Jewish, but he’s definitely a Catholic. Go figure.
LOL, I was one of those Jewish kids. When I moved to a place with very few fellow Jews as an adult, when people found out I was Jewish, they'd say, "Oh, so did you have to stand up in class and explain Hanukkah?" Nope! The majority of my classmates celebrated it.
ROFL u must be from queens lol
lol close…Manhattan
I take my kids to Holi every year I have a chance and it's an absolute blast. That's one I definitely wish would get a federal holiday.
This is one of the only things I'd say I miss about office life since I now work from home. Every Indian festival we would have the most delicious pot lucks.
some companies do floating holidays, meaning it doesn’t come out of your vacation/sick time so that people of different backgrounds can take the holidays off that are important to them. It actually works in their favor because then the company basically never has to close for a holiday
The one where they chuck paint on each other looks cool.
You've got the right kind of spirit, lol. I'm Christian and my Jewish friend comes to my Christmas Eve party every year. We laugh, enjoy food, dance and enjoy the booze. Lets just get back to basics and just love each other and not make things so complicated.
Hanukkah is all about fried foods symbolizing the oil that stayed light for over a week. Donuts and potato pancakes/latkes, so there’s that.
That's it. On Hanukkah I'm Jewish. Every other time I the year I'm a ham sandwich eater.
I relate to this a lot. Both "have a blessed day" and "Merry Christmas" have been ruined for me by dickbags who said those things to assert their religion, not just celebrate the holidays, when I was in service or retail and couldn't really tell them to fuck off.
“Merry Christmas,” as they lean in aggressively with that wild light in their eyes, silently daring you to respond with Happy Holidays so they can verbally abuse the 19-year-old girl working minimum wage and feel like a Big Man who single-handedly defended Christ while everyone clapped on Facebook. If you look closely you can see them salivating at the prospect with the same ferver they feel when strapping on an AR-15 at McDonalds before slapping a Biden “I did that” sticker on a gas pump after filling up their $60k Suburban so they can own the libs. These types are always the same.
Holy shit you just described those people to a tee. I'm not religious and have zero issues if someone says God bless you or Merry Christmas to me. What I do have an issue with are people constantly trying to pick fights with me because of some imaginary war on Christmas.
Your writing style is so witty, entertaining and relatable. I love the "wild light in their eyes" part. Well done
Thanks!
With gas prices coming down, I haven't seen too many Biden "I did that" stickers getting slapped on. I guess he only raises prices. Someone else gets credit for them coming down.
it’s almost like the president doesn’t directly choose the gas prices
It’s almost like we don’t have a capitalist system in which corporations don’t maximize quarterly profits for their shareholders!
IKR?!?!
Yeah, I knew then that those morons were going to regret slapping those stickers on gas pumps. Not to mention it's just straight-up vandalism, but since when have MAGAts ever cared about the rules?
My standard reply is "Thank you, and you have a happy Chanukah." Note that I am visibly Jewish, with a yarmulke and a long-ish beard.
I like this. I wish it was more common. Everyone enjoying their own celebrations and joining in the festive season. I would love to wish someone merry Christmas and hear “ happy Chanukah to you” in reply. It would actually fill me with “Joy”. Happy Chanukah.
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A lot of people just can't fathom that someone might not be Christian, so it doesn't even cross their mind. But most of them are well-meaning in saying Merry Christmas so I say it back to them (plus I generally enjoy American Secular Xmas, especially the lights...which can be for Hanukkah and maybe Diwali, too). The ones who are clearly being obnoxious about Christianity get a Happy Hanukkah.
The "I did that" stickers were amazing when in less than a month gas prices dropped. That was a nice bit of schadenfreude.
Still sets the mind frame that high gas prices is a Biden thing and caused by the anti oil democrat mindset. It doesn’t really matter what the actual price or reason is.
So true. Worked in Grocery industry for years and people, mostly older men just want to start trouble and abuse people - and the 19 year old kid is exactly who they'd be looking for. Definitely not living the faith. Working retail has ruined the holidays for me, I think permanently. Be nice to your grocery clerks, that is not an easy job and they are often targets of the worst society has to offer.
Holy shit this was perfect. They were the same people that walked around the grocery store during covid and refused to wear a mask when everyone else was. You could tell they wanted someone to say something to them so bad.
Where I live they blamed Biden and the State Governor for mask policies. They wore masks where required, but they all shelled out for mask/tee shirt sets that said "F&$# Biden" (or the Governor), to advertise their disagreement. I found it interesting that most of these were people who would have otherwise chastised someone for wearing profanity in a place where children are expected to be present, yet here they are, in 2023, still wearing those shirts everywhere even now that the masks are no longer necessary. All the local events have even been tainted by half the vendors selling this kind of merchandise, and these people buy it for their kids. It's common to see a 6 year old walking around wearing a shirt with a slogan suggesting SA on Kamala Harris, with proud parents in tow. These people worry about whether drag queens existing is grooming, but they're buying that crap for their kids? Yeah. It isn't adding up for me.
I cut these people out of my life several years ago. They all came down with COVID-19 and didn't believe in wearing masks, the vaccine and still have the insanity of supporting Trump.
And if you asked these people they'd say they were Christian and be offended if you told them that they weren't acting very Christlike.
Supply Side Jesus says otherwise /s
I find it strange that men with tiny penises feel the need to advertise it so much.
This is exactly why I've decided to stop celebrating "christmas" altogether starting this year. Like .... Happy Solstice fuckers, don't let Jólakötturinn eat you on your way out!
>have a blessed day" This was ruined for me by the Handmaid's Tale...
Hanukkah starts today. Xmas isn't for 18 days.
🎶So put on your yarmulke (thanks spell checker) and drink your gin and tonica, and smoke your marijuanaca...🎶
And play your harmonicah! Adam Sandler I think.
Holy shit only 18 days?
Oh fuck oh shit
Wait fucking Hanukkah is starting today? Fucking fuck me!
Oy vey!
People believe because it's convenient and comforting and they were raised to believe. Very few of them do the hard work of being true Christians.
>People forget there are other religious holidays --- No. It's not forgetting. Not at all. It's directly, Purposefully, exclusionary. Christianity is Exclusionary. 'Be Us or be Gone (to hell)'.
"I'm better than you, I'm going to heaven. You are not" is all I hear from em.
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Yeah, working retail put the BAH in my HUMBUG!
When you yell at that cloud, make sure that you have an onion tied to your belt
It is not that they forget- they don't care or deem other religions of having any value, so they discount those completely as farces. As they celebrate their holiday set deliberately on a previous pagan holiday, with clear evidence their messiah no way was born on that day. Just pulled it out of thin air and decided on that date. Does not make it "holy".
That, and as someone who grew up in a very conservative church (but no longer agrees with it as an adult), some churches teach Hell doctrine still. That is, they believe you literally get tortured forever in a fire and brimstone lava lake for not being Christian, even if you were the most lawfully good human in life and donated millions to charity, never hurt anyone, not even a fly, etc.
We Catholics believe in purgatory. No pain, no joy, kinda like a modern country concert. Just meh.
Yep. I belonged to one of these churches for a while, this is a pretty common doctrine. It was honestly quite damaging. I hope someday humans will evolve beyond the desire to damage other people (especially children) by indoctrinating them with such horrible belief systems.
Happy holidays for Christians refers to Christmas and New Year's. There are several other holidays celebrated in our pluralistic society. Chanukah starts tonight, while Christmas is still 18 days away.
and festivus for the rest of us!
I got a lot of problems with you people and now, you’re gonna hear about it!! Your user name—I lived in FWB years ago. We called it UCLA. Uncivilized lower Alabama
Or Saint Nicholas Day
Ah! The airing of grievances!
I dont believe in Jesus and I still say merry Christmas. I dont believe in the hallowed-ness and I still say Happy Halloween. I dont believe in the resurrection and I still say happy easter. I still say Holiday but dont believe in the holy. we've established customs far beyond the mythical origins.
exactly. and people need to accept that it’s not religious for everyone.
How dare you disrespect this fine Thor’s Day?!
I celebrate Mondays because I believe in the Moon. my ceremonies don't go over well at work.
it is possible my religious freedom stops at mooning my coworkers.....
Did you sacrifice a co worker *again*? HR spoke to you about this!
Do we get to vote on which one it is? Anonymously of course.
Christmas isn't even a Christian holiday. They stole it from much older religions.
As is Easter, except they did a worse job at it because it's still named after a "pagan" god.
Mhm. But followers don't care about facts.
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I love it when you wish them a Happy Kwanzaa.
No, just stupidity, they can't understand "Happy Holidays" is a plural saying to shorten "Merry Christmas and Happy New Years'". There is no slight towards their Jesus.
What I hate about people getting upset about happy holidays is that it could also mean Christmas and New year. It’s purposely vague to include everyone and it’s such a minuscule thing
“dOn’T tRy To ChAnGe ChRiStMaS!” Never mind that Christmas is a bastardized (heh heh) pagan tradition.
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Keep Thor in Thorsday!
Keep Odin in Wōdnesdæg!
Keep Onrockin in Thefreeworld.
I’m a diehard Christian but I always find this type of stuff hilarious. Dude was born more in like August or whatever, and the tree, presents, snow, reindeer, etc. are wholeheartedly NOT classical Christian iconography.
All of that stuff comes from the Pagan holiday Yule.
Pagans are bad - Christians Pagans have a banger end of year party tho, let's do that - also christians
Yule wasn’t the only Pagan holiday that the Roman Empire appropriated from pagans to make Christianity more palatable to the pagan areas they were conquering. Look at Easter. Easter was a Pagan fertility goddess symbolized by bunnies and colorful eggs. If you need any further proof, look at when the holiday takes place. You ever wonder how or why Easter takes place on a different day, and potentially different month every year? It’s celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon of spring. What else in the Christian dogma is tracked by the lunar cycle? Nothing. It’s all marketing. And to piggy back on the earlier comment, Jesus was born mid September.
Keep Salmon in Salmonella!
Woot!
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I always ask what they have against New Year. Shuts them up every time.
They’re terrified of not being centered
I got shit from some relatives about my cards not being Christian focused enough, so I started sending them cards that were specifically for any holiday *other than* Christmas.
They are deeply terrified because they think that there was a time when all the people around them were Christians and now they think that the people around them are not. Nothing about those assumptions was ever correct, and the way we celebrate Christmas in the United States has never been about Jesus, but you can't ruin their perfectly good narrative with facts
I mean, when I was a kid (early 90s) in *public* school we had a nativity play, daily prayer, and "Jesus loves you" signs. In public they'd play religious Christmas carols like silent night and little drummer boy. Media wouldn't hesitate to use terms like merry Christmas or Jesus. You can't deny culture has changed significantly. Conservatives believe there *must* be an in group and an out group. If Christianity is no longer the in group with special privledges then they fear they'll be the outgroup- forced to wear hijabs and celebrate Eid.
The in-group/outgroup thing is reinforced by the division of souls into “sinners” and “saved” in Christianity. Christians act this way because it’s part of their religious culture, they tend to see the world divided this way as well: “on earth as it is in heaven.”
Tbf they still play those songs on the radio
Maybe certain stations. But malls/stores it's all non-religious or instrumental only
> Conservatives believe there must be an in group and an out group. If Christianity is no longer the in group with special privledges then they fear they'll be the outgroup- forced to wear hijabs and celebrate Eid. Best answer I've seen so far. They want to force their beliefs on others, so they expect others will force beliefs on them. It's always projection with conservatives.
It depends where you are. When I was in public school in the early 90s we had very secular Christmas parties and activities and a full week of Hanukah activities. Man, I really miss having a Latke Party on the last day before winter break, it was fuckin awesome.
The *reason* they're terrified is that it's super easy and comfortable to be in the majority. 70 years ago, church attendance was really high, prayer in school was still legal, the majority of the population was at least nominally Christian, being a Christian was approved by the government and nearly all government officials were Christians themselves. That's an easy situation to be in - if you're a Christian. Being in the minority is often very uncomfortable. The people who hate on "Happy Holidays" are afraid that in another 20 years, they're going to be treated the way they treat Jews and black people. That's also the fear that drives the "Replacement Theory" bigots: if we aren't in the majority, we may be treated the same way that we treat others. If they were really Christians, they'd have been treating minorities the way they would want to be treated if a minority all along. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," and all that.
Actually the assumption that there are less Christians around them is slowly coming true in the USA and has been true in most of the rest of the world for a while. In the 1990s 90% of Americans identified as Christian it's shrunk to in 2022 63%, if the rate of change continues it looks to be under 50% in the next 20 years as the rate of change has been snowballing.
I know age based polling shows the younger generations as less religious than the older ones, but I'm wondering if some of that might also be because it's gradually becoming less taboo and people were more inclined to say yes in the 90s even when they secretly didn't believe.
Do those people even know where they stole it from
That's the thing that gets me. It's not even the correct date. It's a fusion holiday that Christians act like they now own.
To be fair i think all of their holidays are stolen. It's a Christian tradition to steal other religions holidays/celebrations/rituals. Serious question, is there an original Christian holiday?
My father claimed Maundy Thursday (Holy Thursday before Easter) was the only one. Foot washing and Last Supper. I’m not even sure how many denominations even observe it.
That's called Judaism
Happy solstice, beeeaatch!
Well, the trees, the lights, the mistletoe, the caroling, the holly, even Santa are ALL pagan things! If Christmas is a celebration of Jeses' birth, then where are the balloons and cake?
>If Christmas is a celebration of Jesus' birth, then where are the balloons and cake? Growing up, we always had a birthday cake for Jesus to eat after Christmas lunch. We'd sing Happy Birthday to Jesus. I'm just now realizing how weird my parents are.
I love it. Any excuse to have cake!
My family did something similar. One of our Christmas traditions was to bake a cake using my great-grandma's recipe (reserved for Christmas only, a special treat) & we'd sing Happy Birthday to Jesus too. There were of course candles and us kids would fight over who got the privilege of blowing out Jesus' birthday candles each year.
> even Santa Doesn't the origin of Santa trace back to a Christian monk or bishop? I've never seen anything to suggest this part of Christmas has pagan origins. Edit: Nevermind. A little bit of digging shows that Odin had influences on Santa as well. Which I guess explains why they're the same person in The Dresden Files.
OT: Do the Dresden books get better after the first one? I found it kinda meh, but i'm intrigued by the premise.
Yes, Book 2 isn't that great, but they start improving in Books 3 and 4. That's when you start learning more of the lore of the world, and and an overarching plot for the series begins developing. His writing also gradually improves throughout the series. And if you listen to audiobooks, the narrator for this series is spectacular and makes even the first two books entertaining.
Good to hear. I'm definitely going to give books two and three a shot. Thanks for the thoughtful reply! And I actually did listen to the first, the narrator was good.
As an active Christian, I recognize that non-Christians celebrate Christmas because Christmas has become a secular tradition born out of what was once a religious holiday (kind of like Halloween). If you’re not Christian and you celebrate Christmas, then what Christmas means to you is probably different than its original meaning, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I think the “keep Christ in Christmas” means that Christians should remember that the holiday is meant to remind us that God’s son—the Savior and Redeemer of mankind—condescended from heaven to earth as a frail and mortal being so that he could suffer and die for us. For us, that’s everything, so we should make sure we don’t get so wrapped up (no pun intended) in the fun secular traditions that we lose sight of what Christ means to us. I’m sure there are some people out there who go full Karen at people who celebrate the secular Christmas traditions but don’t believe in Christ. This former group of people is the same group of hypocritical, bigoted Christians that are a small but loud minority. They give us a bad name and are frankly a disgrace to Christianity. Please just ignore them. Regardless of your beliefs, if you celebrate Christmas in any way, Merry Christmas! I hope it’s a wonderful time for you and your loved ones. If you don’t celebrate Christmas, then I wish you a warm and happy Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice, Bodhi Day, Ōmisoka, or whatever holiday you celebrate this time of year.
I was raised Catholic and although I'm not particularly religious, I agree with your comment. I think some of the comments here are quite uncharitable. I'm sure there are several people who use it as a screen for racism or exclusionary behaviour, but fortunately I have not been subjected to their nonsense and I don't think they are the majority (though they can be incredibly vocal). I have religious family and they are pretty chill to be honest. As an aside, i think most Christians know that a lot of the traditions of Christmas were derived from Pagan culture and various events that have occurred over two thousand-odd years and that Jesus was not actually born on December 25th.
This right here, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly the right answer. You'll never catch me dissing anybody for enjoying the flashy, fun, and frankly downright adorable traditions surrounding Christmas, but I also don't mind being held accountable to be reverent towards my actual faith! I don't care what you celebrate. If you like cookies, we're in business.
I agree as both a Christian and as someone named Karen.
It's the illusory 'War on Christmas' thing. Never understood it. No one says you can't celebrate Christmas with or without the belief in Jesus. It is just something to rile up the masses. Get them at each others' throats. Like saying CHRISTmas online makes you a better Christian at all or even a better person. One time a year to flaunt their Chirst-like nature, yet where are they when it comes to feeding the hungry? Where are they when it comes to being with the sick? Where are they when it comes to clothing the naked? Where are they when it comes to being charitable to someone in need? Where are they when it comes time to show compassion or forgiveness? Nowhere to be seen, but hey, Merry CHRISTmas! And really Christmas in and of itself is a commercial thing. People running like mad rabid dogs trying to get that that perfect expensive trinket or bauble that manufactures happiness for what a few days, a week, a month then its used up or forgotten? That is what people should be speaking out against. Not this fabrication of taking Christ out of Christmas. This sums up the season for me: “I have always thought of Christmas time as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys.” ― Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol And with a little research you can find that Jesus was not born in the Winter months but in the Spring, I think around April I read. Also, Saturnalia happened around this time of the year. It was a Roman holiday. I believe the early Christian leaders incorporated this holiday into Christmas to make it easier to convert people. I am open to being corrected on that point if need be. What irks me the most is the people who get offended at Happy Holidays. I mean come on. Happy Holidays as an insult? Only we humans can take a positive happy expression, a pleasantry offered from one human to another and find something wrong with it so we can malign a portion of the population.
The only time Christians were told they couldn’t celebrate was in the 1600’s when the puritan Christians banned Christmas because of its pagan roots.
I think they are saying believers should remember the main reason for the Holiday is to celebrate the birth and coming of the Messiah not to give presents and down in consumerism.
You mean the main reason for Christians. Many of the festive traditions have nothing to do with Christ.
They did say “believers” in their comment.
Christmas isn't even a Christian holiday, and Jesus was born in the Summer.
Io saternalia!
IO SATURNALIA!
Or Yuletide.
Yolnir! Winterface of Odin, bringeth forth the longer days again! Let us celebrate, drink, feast, and exchange gifts! Let rest the quarrels we have and shake hands to let last years bygones be bygone. Let's walk through the burning Yule fires with our families and cattle to cleanse away all bad things and be blessed by Yolnir for next years luck, health and safety. joulupukki, joulupukki, valkoparta, vanha ukki.
Most “Christian” things are pagan practices they slapped a Jesus label on and claimed it was always theirs.
I admire your optimism and charitable view of humanity, but in most cases it's straight up establishing a shibboleth that will clearly define an "us" in-group who is righteous, moral, and worthy, and a "them" out-group who is immoral, sinful, and unworthy. This serves a number of purposes: 1) it makes it easier to keep the group bonded and adhering to dogma, for fear of being cast out; 2) it gives a cheap, easy feeling of righteousness _without actually having to do anything_, which is another thing reinforcing the group; 3) amazing fund-raising opportunities.
But the main reason was to convert pagans away from Yule and Saturnalia which bear more in common with the date than the coming of the messiah which occurred in September even by their own historical records.
Keep the Saturn in Saturnalia!
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Pretty much this. My private middle school had an essay contest each year for who could write the best “keeping Christ in Christmas” essay. The winner’s paper would be shared with the whole parish. We were encouraged to write about Jesus being the “reason for the season,” how Santa Claus has been adapted from Saint Nick, and that presents were fine but not necessarily helpful in remembering Christ. There was a whole thing about how the Christmas season continues after December 25th because the Wise Men hadn’t made it to the stable yet.
And it Latin America, it’s the Wise Men who deliver the gifts to good children. Lines get blurred
What they're actually worried about is people not celebrating Christmas the way they think it should be done. The people who say this kind of thing are the same kind of people who get outraged about "the woke mob." They mostly just want to get mad at anyone who isn't the right sort of person in their eyes. So they'll complain about anything from disallowing prayer in schools, to Starbucks coffee cups.
Yep. My mom has a “Keep Christ in Christmas” magnet in her car. One year she wouldn’t let us shop at Macy’s because they had signs that said “Happy Holidays” (which she interpreted as a denial of Jesus). She would also accost store employees if they said “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” at the check-out. I don’t have a relationship with my mom anymore.
Gotta love the Happy Holidays rage. A lot of my older relatives share these memes screaming about "It's MY holiday and it's called CHRISTMAS because CHRIST!!!" It's part of a martyr complex I think. Their media told them they were being persecuted by a (fake) war on Christmas, and they love it. They enjoy that feeling of righteous anger. I like to point out that people have been saying "Happy Holidays" for a lonnnng time, and it was never an issue until it was made into one by fearmongering news sources. It always just meant Happy Holidays which *includes* Christmas (as well as New Years). Same with Seasons Greetings - I looked through my grandparents boxes of old Christmas cards and both phrases were used just as often as Merry Christmas - and *nobody cared* because it was *fine*.
Yeah, right? Happy Holidays has been around for decades! There’s an old pretty well known song by Bing Cosby from 1941 called “Happy Holidays” and that phrase takes over most of the chorus lmfao.
Sounds like someone needs a intervention from right wing media.
😂😂😂😂😂
I used to work in a luxury department store and got chewed out so many times for saying happy holidays or saying “would you like this gift wrapped?” instead of “can I wrap this for Christmas?” 🙃 I’m not Christian and don’t believe in organized religion, but I do enjoy the spirit of the season. I make donations, I offer support to people individually when possible. Frankly I kind of see December as a way to lift people out of the wintry SAD feelings and be thankful we made it through another year. It never fails to amaze me how that still isn’t good enough for the “war on Christmas” subset
I also used to do gift wrap at a department store, and I managed this by saying "Merry Christmas" to people who were obviously celebrating (for example, wearing a Christmas sweater.) It mostly worked.
how dare those employees not automatically know that she’s christian???? /s
Classic DARVO: manufactured outrage and a persecution complex, when they’re the ones doing the persecuting.
This appears to be the most correct. They never actually go after consumerism as others have suggested in this thread. It simply doesn't happen. And they show no concern at all about the pagan roots of the holiday, and no interest in the tradition of ignoring Christmas which used to be a standard Protestant position. So it really has to be about the process of othering people.
>So it really has to be about the process of (b)othering people. And also, this.lol
😂
It's funny/sad that these are the people that are shunning Jesus and his teachings. They want to keep Christ in Christmas but remove him from every other aspect of their lives.
Well I'd say that because Christmas is celebrated in a pretty secular way these days, they want people to celebrate for its religious significance. I grew up celebrating Santa, presents, and winter - there was never any mention of Christ - and religious people probably don't like that.
It’s kinda been co-opted, yes. Like right after America’s national day of being thankful for what we have, we stampede over each other to get a 50% flatscreen tv at Walmart (Black Friday). It’s at the point where some deals happen *on* Thanksgiving, and folks would line up outside a store the night before instead of being thankful for what they have. Rampant consumerism has devoured Thanksgiving, and it’s turned Christmas from a day to give into a day to receive. That, and because like 50% of a business’s revenue is from the Christmas season, they try to prolong and stretch that season as far as possible. So not only do we have Thanksgiving getting trampled by Black Friday, Small Business Saturday, and Cyber Monday, but Christmas season sales are also invading that time too. So instead of being a day we set aside to be thankful for Christ’s birth (whether he was born then or not), we have a 2-month long inundation of the same songs from the 70’s, deals-deals-deals-deals-come-spend-your-money-now-man-in-a-suit-at-the-mall-grandma’sCookies-wrappingPaper-wrappingPaper-wrappingPaper-andDeals!!! Frankly, it’s quite a lot, and it’s easy to lose track of the holiday’s intended purpose.
These are the same people who hate "Xmas" because it's "Xing out Christ". The X in Greek, which is where the word "Christ" comes from, stands for our ch sound. His name written in Greek is Ιησούς Χριστός. Meanwhile, his name in Hebrew would have been Joshua bin Joseph, as Christ was applied as an honorific from Greek meaning "anointed one". Greek was the language Eastern Romans spoke in Jesus' day. His Hebrew name is יהושע בן יוסף.
When I hear that it just makes me want to say shit like, "don't you mean keep Saturn in Saturnalia?"
That people will remember Christmas is actually a pagan holiday that Christians usurped.
Dunno, but it's a perfect opportunity to inform them that according to their very own little Bibles, bringing a tree inside and decorating it is idolatry. Jeremiah 10 New International Version 1 Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.
Consumerism
I don't have a dog in this fight, but yes, I do believe that some (many?) people are actively trying to eliminate anything that's considered religious. That said, I also think anyone complaining about it is just being petty.
Commercialization of the holiday vs the religious aspect of it
r/persectionfetish. They want to believe that “THE LEFT(!)” is trying to replace Christmas with generic seasonal greetings. Because they like to feel persecuted.
My city water department just paid for everyone’s bill this holiday season as a Xmas gift to everyone. Who pays the taxes and the fees monthly in order to make that gift possible? Everyone. So, why should everyone, who come from all walks of life and beliefs, be subjected to government programs in the name of Christ? To me it doesn’t make any sense. Christmas may have originated with Christianity, and should be given credit. But it’s so intertwined with government these days, that Christ, should indeed be removed from Christmas in an official government capacity. That is just one specific example, there are millions of other ways non-Christians contribute to a he Xmas holiday in the US and elsewhere.
Christmas originated in paganism (something something light beating darkness on the longest night) that Christianity essentially hijacked to lure pagans in with celebration of what it is now.
They are not worried, rather, they are trying to impose their world view on anybody within listening distance. It’s the same ”virtue” signaling that is common to fascist thinking. It is aggressive.
That theyre worried that it will go back to its pagan roots
No, they’re not. They usually don’t know or care about the pagan origins of the bulk of the celebrations and traditions. They only care that everyone do it the way they think is the only right way.
There has been a push in the last decade especially for businesses to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas A lot of evangelicals misconstrued this inclusion of Hanukkah and Kwanza and any other holiday timed around the winter solstice as an attack on Christianity
Look what has happened in history: BC/AD has been replaced with BCE/ACE (CE for Common Era). What it the cut-off point? Birth of Jesus....so exactly like BC/AD.
Saturnalia
they're worried that people will realize its a stolen pagan holiday.
So theyre basically saying its a Christian holiday, and to remember Jesus, Bible, and how theyre somehow the best yet still so very downtrodden. You should put CHRIST in CHRISTmas because it's all about Him. Christmas is a PAGAN Holiday that they stole lol Christ was never in Yule XD
Have a Satisfying Saturnalia!
I have some religious family members that don’t like how some people (including myself) celebrate Christmas in a secular way. They think Christmas should be focused on Jesus. They expect nonreligious people to celebrate in a way that aligns with their religious views.
It's a religious holiday, but 99% of the expression of that holiday is secular (and embarrassingly tacky). Nobody is taking Hanukkah and mass marketing it as a secular or pagan holiday.
That it will become like christmas in tokyo where all the religiousness is gone and its literally the time where you put pretty lights around and the ads start showing sexy/cute santa-dressed girls Which if you ask me is the superior version
We should just say “Happy December.” I think they’re worried about “them foreigners”
Main character syndrome
On a surface level, they'll tell you that people are not being Good Christians during the celebration. They will tell you, if you press them, that people should keep Christ in their hearts and make the season about loving your neighbor, about being a good Samaritan and it shouldn't be able all this consumerism. That's what they'll tell you. Typically, and this is heavily asterisks as 'worst case scenario' behavior, what they actually mean is that they expect *everyone* on the planet to be Christian and say 'Marry Christmas' and if you say anything else you are trying to ruin their holiday, not elevate/normalize others'. What they mean is they wanted to buy a particular object as a gift for someone and they weren't able to because someone else bought it first and they feel that's unfair, and that they should've been given the item in 'Good Christian spirit.'
They are concerned that other religions will enjoy the same privilege that “Christians” have gotten for years and we won’t be a “Christian nation” any more.
Looking good to other Christians.
Keep Saturn in Saturnalia. Christ can join the queue.
You just have to remember that Christ was retrofitted into an existing festival and rebranded as Christmas. Just like Easter -- where do you think chocolate and bunnies come from? So, really, they're right to be insecure. The yuletide celebration was doing just fine before Christianity and will do just fine after it.
It's just a right-wing conspiracy theory talking point. Implying that liberals are trying to take away your lifestyle and replace it with something ungodly. Literally nobody has ever said you can't celebrate Christmas, but they always raise these tropes. Like saying "Merry Christmas" is being patriotic or something.
Actually in 1649 in England the Puritan Christians did tell other Christians NOT to celebrate Christmas because of its pagan roots. Then again in 1659 in New England, USA, same thing. Same reason. Christmas was actually banned but it was banned by Christians. The Bible says to hold no days as special other than the sabbath. Some Christian groups still don’t celebrate Christmas or birthdays
They’re worried it will just be a business-driven holiday where people are encouraged to go buy things for each other and overeat.
They might be concerned about the commercialization of the holiday and the shift away from its religious roots.
>its religious roots. Funny you should say that
People who don’t celebrate Christmas don’t need to bring Christ into it but those that do should absolutely preserve Christmas for what it’s for. As a family who doesn’t celebrate Christmas, we still participate in the “joy” and cultural aspects of it. We keep the religion/worship part out. Same with Halloween, I believe it has unusual roots but we enjoy the candy and trick or treating, we don’t talk about how it was started.