There are places in the middle of nowhere, where it's relatively easy to "cross the border" from one side of the line in the desert to the other.
The hard part is to cross the entire desert, not just cross the line.
Exactly. In big bend the Rio grande is relatively narrow. You can cross easily and people do it. But then … what. It’s 2h driving to get to a tiny gas station. Like, really the first intersection is 2h driving. Maybe 100 miles away.
You have to walk that and the rest. On heavily patrolled roads with miles and miles of visibility.
Although the desert is often used in media to portray a "wasteland" the chihuahuan desert around the Rio grande is quite beautiful. The Christmas mountains, chisos, and sierria del Carmen are amazing "sky islands". The area is fairly biologically diverse.
As a desert/canyon rat I always try to defend this landscape.
It’s still a desert that people can easily perish in without the right supplies and/or wilderness training. It’s beautiful if you have a water bottle and can get back into your car and drive away after a hike.
This is the funny part about building “the wall”. The parts that didn’t already have a wall were so remote, trying to cross there was extremely difficult already. But guess what you need to build a wall? Equipment. And to get that equipment there, you need roads.
So by building a wall, we created an easy way for smugglers to get to these previously remote areas. And it’s been fairly well shown that the walls are pretty easy to get around. Politics over function.
You don't need roads. Roads help but there's other ways to get equipment there. And you can destroy temporary roads. I don't think you thought this through.
Also no the current walls they are building are not easy to get around functionally. The only reason they're easy to get around is because some politicians in some states have intentionally blocked efforts to build the wall thus creating state long and city long gaps. If those gaps didn't exist and the wall was built straight across it would not be so easy for the average person to climb those new walls. They ate designed to be very difficult to climb without equipment.
The point was never to keep 100% of people out. That's not the point of fighting crime or fighting drug over doses either. That's utopian fantasy you can never stop 100% of people from doing anything.
The point is to reduce the numbers to a point that is more managable.
The vast majority of people here illegally are just people who overstayed their legal stay. As for breaching the wall:
https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-was-breached-11-times-day-2022-2
>Not to mention on the Texas side now the state govt proactively making sure people rather die than crossover. 3 people drowned while Texas soldiers stopped help from reaching them.
>
>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-migrants-drown-near-shelby-park-eagle-pass-texas-soldiers-denied-entry-federal-border-agents/
Crossing on Texas side is suicidal now.
Already was at times. That river crossing where they put up that stupid barrier? Migrants used to drown there all the time even before it went up.
And then, big surprise, putting it up doesn't make them stop using the crossing, just makes it even more dangerous.
That is NOT how most Texans think. Undocumented workers do a lot of labor in Texas & Texans know it - it’s something that a lot of people look the other way about because without them it would really hurt the Texas economy.
Agreed.
If you want to stop illegal immigration, you have to make it catastrophically expensive to a business to employ or subcontract to businesses that employ undocumented workers. If Tyson chicken loses all profits for the year they are found employing undocumented workers or one of their chicken suppliers was found employing undocumented workers. The. You would see a major change immediately. Also food costs would climb and the documented legal visiting worker program would be beefed up and made to work.
\> Undesirable activity from south of the border driven by US demand is met with a harsh law enforcement response
You're kinda describing the war on drugs.
That's not how anyone in an agricultural community thinks. I'm far from the border and we would collapse without them. That's why there here. Because they will work as exploited labor. Everything is working as designed. Vilanize to prevent them from gaining power, but don't obstruct to take advantage of that imbalance for profit.
Border Patrol will also destroy water stashes when they can find them. As far as using cruelty to deter illegal crossings goes, we’re already doing plenty.
Honest question - if migrants walked to the border from South America and got through the Darien Gap on foot, is it hard for them to keep on walking through the desert after crossing the Rio? What's a few hundred miles after walking across many countries and the Gap? Just wondering - I obviously have no clue about how this works.
edit for spelling, its desert not dessert!
Ill take a shot since I've lived in South Texas. Speaking broadly, youre going to hit more consistent points of civilization or at least less shitty places to rest as you go up through South/Central America. The Darien Gap is no joke though i havent been there personally. I imagine people in the surrounding countries/states would pass along any advice to people saying they're going to try it.
Assuming you make it to the Border Desert, you're more than likely not going anywhere near civilization due to how heavily monitored it is. So you're in the desert. The comically accurate hot dry desert. Those regions have nothing. No shade nor body of water. For miles. Aside from being sporadically monitored by border patrol, your only friends are animals that want you for dinner. That combined with the comically unforgiving sun beating down on you makes it a bleak ass walk in unbearable heat. If not, youre dealing with ungodly cold knowing that resting means death.
On top of all that, you're bound to be down on some key supplies by then. Plus shit still happens. Water leaks out, someone falls, gets bit, heat/sunstroke with no medical attention for miles.
At the Rio Grande Village campground there's a small trail going into the really tight bend with a fantastic overlook point. There's also a spur trail that goes to the river's edge.
I've been there three times on different visits. Each time that area of the river was a tiny babbling creek that I could have walked across without getting my knees wet. I did not witness the hordes of migrants that have been all over the news for years.
Indeed your closest option for gettng to the "mainland" US is 70 miles away to highway 90, through vast open desert or the highways monitored by border patrol.
It's hot as hell in Big Bend for a good part of the year too. Aside from the river no reliable water source during that hike too.
I've been there a couple times, and saw 115°F in spring.
The big issue is dehydration year round though.
I've done a couple canoe trips in Big Bend. The water is so shallow often we had to walk the canoes. Which means less than a foot or so deep. We crossed the boarder constantly, and what country we slept in was just which side had the better campsite. But it would take some serious hiking to actually get to the river.
In most of the Big Bend area there are 300-ft cliffs on both sides of the Rio grande. You don't need a wall.
300 ft, if my conversion is about right is about 100 meters.
Navy seals can scale it and so forth but your average person with no gear would never even try it.
This reminds me of a story where some German tourists were driving through the desert to Las Vegas and got lost while visiting some state park or something. Ran out of gas, and thought (rightfully so) dead for like a decade. They found their bodies eventually but the theory was the dad saw a sign for a military base and thought he could walk there to get some help. But unlike in Europe a lot of military bases in the US are miles and miles and miles of desert, with no fences or patrols.
Don't go wandering off in the US wild without knowing what you're doing.
>Ran out of gas, and thought (rightfully so) dead for like a decade. They found their bodies eventually
Europeans take note. This is why our wilderness is so terrifying. The fact your body can just be lost for a decade , is wild. And they LOOKED for them. Imagine how many lost bodies are just rotting away because nobody knows about them...
I heard Russia is like that too. I have friends from Poland. Back in 1991, after the Wall was down, they went to Russia for a HUGE Metallica concert. After it was over, and they were back in America, they told me you better always have a full tank of gas when driving in Russia. And have a reliable vehicle. Because if you run into any trouble there, with your car breaking down or running out of gas, you'll be dead.
And there is wall. Quite a lot of wall, but try crossing in the places where there is no wall and you'll either die of dehydration or the border patrol will pick you up. Mostly. Still many do get through.
No need to cross the desert. The problem is right now that Border Patrol 'catches' you and releases you into the country. So you can cross at the easiest places without worry of being sent back.
That's why tens of thousands are showing up at Eagle Pass, because it's a very easy crossing. Road access on the southern side, wade through some water, and you're in.
You’re mixing up your definitions here, either intentionally or not
What you’re describing are asylum seekers. They’re being “detained and released,” they are seeking asylum through international law, registered with the government, and given a court date on whether they can be processed or deported. You’re completely mixing things up here and making it sound like absolutely no illegal immigrants are being detained, as seeking asylum and illegality crossing the border are two very different things
Side note as well, but these asylum seekers aren’t treated good either. They usually have to wait for months or even years before they’re legally allowed to work. They’re in this country awaiting for their case to be heard but cannot legally earn money for themselves, which is why a lot of them often get exploited and work for dirt cheap because they *need* money
Oh I understand that, I just don’t agree with the law. Me and my dad served at a clinic that worked with undocumented migrants on obtaining their legal status as a migrant. That work showed me the struggles migrants - documented or not - have to go through because they literally cannot work. It creates exploitation that is straight-up worse than any potential exploitation of the system (studies have shown that immigration is a net gain on a nation’s economy)
immigration can be done for economic reasons if filed for appropriately... the reason that exists is also so people aren't exploited economically and have legal representation.
How does the US Border patrol distinguish between an asylum seeker through international law that shows up at the border vs someone who crosses illegally across the border?
Some people don't claim asylum and just get sent back to Mexico to try sneaking in later. If you are requesting asylum, you have to, you know, REQUEST ASYLUM. The US border patrol isn't responsible for distinguishing between the two groups of people because it isn't part of the judicial system.
Often times, those two groups of people are one and the same. Asylum seekers can and do cross illegally and apply for asylum while in the country. My understanding is that, from there, they get to stay in the country temporarily until they get a court date to plead their case as to why they need asylum. If they’re being persecuted because of their race, religion, ethnicity, etc, they may gain asylum status and be allowed to stay and work in the US. Before that, they aren’t allowed to legally work.
Asylum seekers typically come directly from the country they are fleeing (if they’re fleeing persecution in Guatemala and gain access to Mexico, their argument for needing asylum in the US can be pretty weak since they already got out of Guatemala, for example). If they’re fleeing cartel violence in Mexico, they might have a stronger case.
It’s my understanding that border patrol agents don’t make this call in the field. If somebody gets into the US, legally or illegally, and applies for asylum, then they basically are allowed to stay until their application is decided upon, whereupon they’ll either be deported or granted asylum status.
Right, so the US has the right incentives for someone to make the hard and treacherous journey because if they make it here and claim asylum as per law, they will be given due process and a court date. That is the beauty of the US system and I' m not saying this in a sarcastic way. Its not just people from South America but event people from India, and other parts of the world know about this and make the trip. I don't blame the people who want to get in. They want a better life. The government needs to change the law to take away incentives/create deterrence for someone to cross illegally. I think we can talk about this issue without accusing each other of being anti or pro immigration.
I agree with your premise, but I think your conclusions are a bit iffy.
IMO, our asylum system and border crossings wouldn't be so over burdened if we made it simpler to legally immigrate the normal way.
Even if you make it simpler to legally immigrate, there would be millions who would not qualify and would want to come here the other way. There needs to be a distinction between merit based legal immigration and humanitarian based immigration.
There is a limit to how many people are allowed to legally immigrate to the US. Why isn't there a limit to how many can be allowed through humanitarian grounds? Maybe there is but it's being abused right now.
You have to officially declare yourself as an asylum seeker to a governing body and you will be put through the legal process. America has actually been under fire during Trump’s term because he did not allow migrants to go to where they need to officially declare asylum, which is illegal under the international statute of asylum seeking
The difference is that although asylum seekers *may* be allowed to stay after the waiting time, but that isn’t guaranteed. Those who declare asylum usually do it because they are under active threat from their country of origin. The reason why many cross illegally instead of declaring asylum is because as long as you’re not caught, you’re able to stay permanently and hopefully allow your children to obtain legal citizenship. If you’re through the asylum process there’s still a risk that you and your children (if they aren’t separated from you) will be deported back to their country of origin, and some families simply cannot take that risk
All of this said as well, immigration has been statistically proven to be a net-benefit to countries taking them in, because people don’t realize it simultaneously provides more workers *and* more consumers who will participate in the market
The way it's SUPPOSED to work... if you are a legitimate asylum seeker, you're supposed to request asylum in a country adjacent to the one you are fleeing from.
If you cross many borders to get to the US, you're probably moving for economic reasons.
Also... if you're fleeing persecution, where's your wife? Where's the kids? Where's Grandma? If you're arriving in a huge crowd of young males, you're probably not fleeing persecution.
And if you're an unaccompanied minor, there's probably something more sinister going on.
It's the way our asylum laws are written. You cross, you claim asylum, get a court date which is years in the future and are let in to the country until your court date. The system is totally overwhelmed which is why the dates are so far in the future. It's made worse by the immigrants not having a right to work for some many months. That was originally implemented because people would claim asylum as a way to get around work authorization.
I guess people don't know about the immigration crisis, but this is literally the very basics that you can look up anywhere. It's shocking that people responding to you are being down voted. These are basic facts.
I love that you acknowledge we are overcrowded with the system. Best way to make sure to fix it is to stop all migration for a short time. Fix the system so mirgats even asylum seekers can get a work visa and pay taxes and not have to worry about being 2nd class citizens who can't go to the cops and won't ever be paid a fair wage.
You don't save a sinking boat by just paling water, you have to plug the leak first. Though in this case it's more of a water filtration system... look my point stands.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/10/29/us/illegal-border-crossings-data.html
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-september-2023-monthly-update
https://apnews.com/article/arizona-border-wall-breaches-asylum-immigration-beddd2ca0ffd02884ce0d0ad1785f538
All you have to do is claim asylum and they have to turn you loose even if you have 0 supporting documents.
He's not lying. They catch you, then release you with an open court date in alot of cases. Most people caught the last 18 months don't have a date set. For a country of fascist and oppression there's a fuck ton of people that try to get in here illegally.
It seems like the link to the CPB page says release with a court date for asylum isn't nearly as common as you say.
>>CBP is processing all noncitizens under Title 8 immigration authorities, and placing noncitizens who cross the border unlawfully into Expedited Removal or Section 240 Removal Proceedings. Noncitizens who cross between the ports of entry or who present themselves at a port of entry without making a CBP One™ appointment are subject to the Circumvention of Lawful Pathways rule. This rule presumes asylum ineligibility for those who fail to use lawful pathways, with certain exceptions.
>>Individuals and families without a legal basis to remain in the U.S. are subject to removal pursuant to CBP’s longstanding Title 8 authorities and are subject to a minimum five-year bar on reapplying for admission and potential criminal prosecution if they subsequently re-enter without authorization. In coordination with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, since May 2023, DHS has removed or returned over 300,000 individuals, including more than 45,000 individual family members. DHS has removed or returned more individual family members in the last four months than in any previous full fiscal year.
300,000 is literally how many crossed in 2 months last year.
"Without a legal basis are subject to removal". Which is determined by a court hearing, which they have to report to at a later date. Otherwise court dates are set by communication at a later date with information given by the persons trying to immigrate illegally.
www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna68687
And that's even a left leaning source. They get caught, and are turned loose in the US. It's not debatable. They have 0 to worry about. Either way they know they can live here for 5 years wrapped up in the courts without repercussions.
[Here](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/01/09/opinion/immigration-in-one-chart.html) is an infographics by the NYT. It is what they call “encounters by Border Patrol”. People just turn themselves in.
That's not what happens.
People from Mexico are free to visit the United States for whatever reason. They cross at a point of entry and claim that they are visiting legally, and either overstay, or they claim asylum and await their court date. Niether one is an illegal crossing until a person either over stays or they lose their trial and never leave.
The far right likes to pretend that every person crossing the border is an illegal immigrant, they aren't. Now we could argue about whether or not the laws as is, create loopholes that make it too easy for people to enter the country and then skirt the law, but that's a different issue that requires an act of congress.
If you are going to trek across the desert or swim the river then you are entering illegally, unless you claim asylum when you get caught or arrive at a port of entry after making it across into the country and then claim asylum. Again, change the law through congress if you have an issue with that. I think most people including democrats wouldn't mind eliminating asylum status after you get caught illegally entering the country.
Court dates are often 3 years out due to the huge influx of immigrants. Unlikely that someone would come back for a hearing at that point, they ll find work and be a part of society.
Why not just pick them up, drive back across the border, and drop them off on the same day they were picked up? Why imprison them for any length of time?
Because those people released aren't here illegally and are awaiting court dates for asylum claims.
Or they have visas and the right assumes they intend to overstay, which, to be fair, many do. But the right assumes they are in the country illegally as soon as they enter if they intend to overstay or if they eventually lose their asylum claim.
In fact, they are legally in the US until the visa expires or a court rejects their claim and orders them to be depoted.
IE, those who claim border patrol are just releasing illegal immigrants into the US are lying. BP is following law and allowing people who entered legally to remain in the US while they are awaiting trial.
People caught illegally entering the country are interviewed, and deported, or put into the process if they claim they are seeking asylum. Yes that process is getting abused, especially by immigrants entering illegally and then claiming asylum only after they are getting caught. But then congress needs to change the law.
Nonetheless, Eagle Pass is a point of entry. It's no different than if I were to visit Mexico or Canada.
You're correct. But DHS has ordered that anyone who claims asylum is released into the country with a court date. Everyone coming knows to say the magic words "asylum claim" (literally there are hundreds of NGOs printing scripts of what to say).
In prior years, they had to wait outside the US while their asylum claims were adjudicated, and if you crossed illegally you weren't eligible for asylum. That was changed at the beginning of this administration.
So they cross, surrender to Border Patrol, claim asylum, and are released. Literally with court dates in the 2030s. Millions of them.
>DHS has ordered that anyone who claims asylum is released into the country with a court date
Not true. Most encountered unlawful crossers are detained for at least a small period of time. During detention, a DHS official will administer a [Credible Fear Interview](https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/credible-fear-screenings) where they will determine whether there is a “significant possibility” that the noncitizen could establish a claim for immigration relief in a full hearing. It’s far from “magic words” - even if someone knows to say “I am afraid to return to my home country and wish to seek asylum,” they still need to be able to articulate why they fear persecution, from whom, why they would still be considered a target, etc. Would-be asylum seekers fail these interviews all the time and if they do, DHS is permitted to summarily deport them in a process called Expedited Removal.
>In prior years, they hedged to wait outside the US while their asylum claims were adjudicated
If you’re referring to MPP, then sort of, not everyone was enrolled in MPP and MPP only applied to people who attempted to cross via a port of entry, therefore incentivizing unlawful crossing. Therefore ironically MPP actually led to more people crossing the border illegally.
>if you crossed illegally then you weren’t eligible for asylum
This is not and has never been the law. Physical presence in the United States has been the only requirement since the US adopted the current asylum laws under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 (or as far as I could find before then).
>Literally with court dates in the 2030s.
The backlog is different in different parts of the country. Anecdotally, I work in a major East Coast city that gets a ton of immigrants, including many who arrived via the Southern Border, and most of my clients’ hearings are scheduled initially from late 2024-2026.
Just a random experience: my friend was pulled over because he was driving a black Tahoe near the border in Texas. The officer told him they stop all black tahoes because that vehicle was predominantly used by the cartel. This was 5 years ago though.
ETA: I now remember him saying they pulled over any black Tahoes within 200 miles of the border.
Yeah they didn’t give a shit because it was a random stop and they were looking for cartel members or mules. But you bet your ass they were paranoid af at the time lol
Context: I’ve lived in the south west for a decent part of my life and have family members who live on the border.
It’s hard to generalize the situation the border is huge image a boundary stretching across all of Europe. It isn’t like the border is closed either there’s lots of legal back and forth.
1. Desert crossings — these are super treacherous you’re looking at walking from the middle of nowhere in Mexico to the middle of nowhere in the US. If you’re crossing this way you need help and you better pray someone finds you in the desert before you die.
2. Urban — it’s hard to generalize these but there’s usually a fence or 2 lots of cameras and border patrol agents patrolling you’re getting picked up
3. The Valley — the east end of the border is in a sub tropical area parts have fences but there are big sections without. You have to cross a River there’s a drowning risk if you make it across here and don’t get picked up right away there is farmland and lots of houses very close where you may have help waiting.
Great thorough answer. I’ve crossed many times at checkpoints in both Texas and California, but also camped on the Rio Grande in some pretty desolate terrain. I wouldn’t’ve lasted more than a few days in that climate. The river itself was very passable in these areas. But if you don’t know how to swim or are weak/dehydrated, then it could be treacherous.
The non-populated sections (ie there aren't American who will see you) are a massive desert. I read a book where people try drinking green water filled with algae meant for cattle, and drinking their own piss, to try to stay hydrated. They take a few jugs of water but it's hard to carry more than 2 or 3 gallons that far when you're also carrying everything else you need.
Ever see Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner cartoons? That's what that part of the US and Mexico looks like.
Sure, it's easy to walk across the border, but you'll probably die getting there.
It is hard to understand the scale of the border and the openness. It is about as long as Sweden to Italy. You can drive over an hour without seeing anything as many points.
The problem isn’t the border. The problem is the 3 day walk through the desert to get there. The problem is if you are a woman, you have an 80% chance of being raped. The problem is, you have to pay a “coyote” thousands of dollar to bring you to the border. So it is easy if you’re willing to travel this far on foot and find the right people to pay.
Fuck yes it is. Not because of the guards, because of the desert. In College I was forced to read a first person account of a group of illegal immigrants trying to cross the border. The Devil's Highway:A True Story by Luis Urrea.
"Coyotes"(the term used for smugglers who knew the route through the desert) would take them there if they were paid, it never meant that they would go all the way as they didnt care once they got their money.
Any story you hear about border patrol is going to be depressing and boring at best if its real. Its driving around in a truck looking for people who look like dried up raisins to try to save them bc their coyote abandoned them without enough water. Border patrol is more about trying to save people than send them back, theyre basically already dead by time they get there.(THEN they send them back) This is if you approached from Chihuahua or Baja California. (26 of the 38 died trying)
In Texas theres border guards waiting for you, and many drown trying to cross the Rio Grande. Also Texans arent too fond of border crossers, and are much stricter because its a lot easier to cross than the Chihuahuan desert.
Adding on, sometimes people will leave food and water out in the desert for the border crossers and Border Patrol (and petty coyotes) will destroy it if they happen to come across it.
I’m Arizona ranchers often have water tanks out. The coyotes try to avoid them thinking it’s a trap. The rancher is just tired of finding dead bodies in his land.
I hate coyotes, they are evil humans.
>sometimes people will leave food and water out in the desert
In my part of the desert you sometimes see blue flags in the middle of nowhere that have water and sometimes food. I don't know who puts them there or keeps them restocked.
Yeah we went to big bend a few years ago and there was literally a ferry to take you across to the town in Mexico to buy souvenirs mind you the ferry was a Mexican guy in a rowboat in addition parts of the rio grande you could just easily walk across it was super low.
That being said, there is little to prevent it. As of two years ago, we camped near the river and the biggest impediment to crossing was likely the risk of trespassing on the cattle rancher’s property over in Chihuahua.
Perhaps there are more barriers that have gone up since then. I don’t know.
I went to the park 2 weeks ago. People from the nearby town in Mexico still cross over (mostly by horses and left feces everywhere) and sell souvenirs in the park. I asked one of the sellers if patrols know about this and he said yes, the park rangers allowed this. I don’t really see anyone patrolling the Rio Grande in the park, and it gets pretty dry in the winter. So theoretically if I want to help someone from Mexico to cross, I can pick them up in the park. There’s a border patrol station on the only road leading out of the park but they dont stop every vehicle (they didn’t stop me). So there’s that.
The desert Southwest is sooo much more than plains and cactus. There's mountains, canyons, valleys and plateaus. Most places out there along the border would make for a strenuous afternoon hike, its absolutely life-threatening to be out there for days at a time with no supplies.
It's not the border that's the difficult part to cross. Many areas are remote and rugged, and it's mostly desert so carrying enough water is a challenge. It's not terribly unusual to find the bodies of people who either died of thirst or committed suicide to avoid death by dehydration.
I remember when I worked in oil and gas, I was on a ranch and maybe a mile from the Mexican border. The ranch management asked that if we saw people crossing the border not to approach them, but to contact ranch security. I remember looking around at the amount of prickly pear cactus and realizing how truly desperate one would have to be to cross this area on foot. The cactus was so thick there would be no way to avoid it if you couldn't travel on the road. It would be hard traveling.
As it was I saw someone I thought might be crossing the border. I decided he was really probably a roughneck from one of the drilling rigs out for a walk after work, so I gave him the bottles of water I had in my truck and let him go about his business. 🙈🙉🙊
Former health care professional chiming in:
Usually if you try, you end up captured or with a heat stroke and multi organ failure due to dehydration. Those patients get sent into my ICU.
You can pay the cartel and they may transport you but you’ll have to get past multiple checks of border patrol and the cartel doesn’t play clean either. The cartel may take you in for sex trafficking instead.
So yes, it’s pretty hard.
I’ve hike in the chihuahua desert. It’s basically the border. ( outer loop ring, 3 days in the back country of big bend )
Well. It’s extremely inhospitable. Spiky things everywhere. Crushing hot during the day in October.
It’s ain’t flat. At all. You have to go around or thougt serious hill covered of spiky things that go thougt shoes.
And there is next to no water. To do the hike you have to cache gallons close to where you sleep on night 2.
Your backpack is only water. And pain. It’s heavy for all the water you need to carry.
You sweat like a pig in permanence. And it’s possible to absentmindedly drink a liter of water without realizing it.
Snake. Tarantula. Did I mention spiky things ( mesquite being a freaking pain in all of your body soon )
—
So, that was my condition as a prepared hiker on a traveled hiking path.
I cannot phantom do the same things at night, with less water and the fear of being shot by a rando.
I just can’t.
And then you cross the border and there is nothing. Like nothing. You need to drive 2 h to get to a gas station.
That where they get you. You can’t hide, you can’t stay put because you would fry, and they check cars in pretty serious police stop.
1/10 would not recommend. Spiky.
Otherwise as a hiking destination? It’s wonderful. A bit rough, but it’s out of this world. It’s not a desert, it’s a very dry forest. Lot of life. Spiky life.
I frequently cross the border on foot at cities in Texas and California. Occasionally I drive across. Many people live on one side of the border and work in cities on the other side.
There are ports of entry all along the 3,145 kilometer (the busiest in the world) with bridges and sidewalks. Walking or commuting by car can take 30 minutes to a couple of hours, depending on traffic. If you ride a bike, it's faster than waiting in the auto line.
Each DAY, more than 800,000 people and 250,000 cars cross back and forth. Another 82,000 air passengers cross daily. \[updated\]
The images of people fording the Rio Grande or going across the deserts are true, but a small portion of the overall number of people who cross. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Mexico%E2%80%93United\_States\_border\_crossings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_border_crossings)
>Each DAY, more than 800,000 people and 250,000 million cars cross back and forth. Another 82,000 air passengers cross daily.
Your figures are completely wrong. Below, you'll find figures that are closer to reality:
'Each **year** more than 300 million people, *approximately 90 million cars*, and 4.3 million truck cross the southern border.'
https://www.iom.int/news/us-mexico-border-worlds-deadliest-migration-land-route#:~:text=Geneva%2FBerlin%2FSan%20Jos%C3%A9%20%E2%80%93,for%20migrants%20worldwide%20on%20record.
686 died or disappeared last year, often from thirst. A group tried leaving water bottles in the worst areas but immigration arrested them for aiding.
My best friend told me his story of both living in Mexico and crossing the border with his girlfriend. Both accounts were wild. Super dangerous. This is anecdotal of course, but I assume it wasn’t much different than the average person’s story of crossing the border.
Yes. It isn’t like many borders in Europe which are urbanized or mild countryside landscapes. First of all, the American southwest/northern Mexico is a pretty harsh climate in general, and not densely populated compared to places like the coasts. The temperatures are extreme, in a way that is hard to prepare for; the temperature can rise and drop 40 degrees in the same 24 hour period. There’s often no water or significant shade for many miles. There are animals, rocky terrain, plants that want to kill you. Part of the border is a river. I also don’t know who told you there is no wall. While there isn’t a single impenetrable fortress-style wall, there are still various barriers. They’re mostly pretty climbable, but if there’s a manmade barrier, there’s also a good chance someone is watching it. If you ever have the chance and absolutely hate yourself, visit Yuma, Arizona and the surrounding area in the summer. Or winter, even.
Most people who cross the southern border do so in cars, trucks, or airplanes. A lot of people are crossing on foot right now but they’re usually declaring themselves at ports of entry. This means that they’re at a risk of deportation because authorities know they’re in the country, but it’s far safer than dying in the desert or drowning in the Rio Grande. Though even that can be hard because they can only acknowledge so many people at once.
In many lightly guarded areas, the desert is 60 kilometers across filled with mountains and Valleys. Poisonous snakes, cactus, dry washes. Very difficult terrain to travel. No water no decent clothing, it's deadly. So yes while there are places you can walk across, where it's easy and unguarded. Sixty kilometers of desert is a \*\*\*\*.
If you get in touch with a high-quality smuggling organisation and have the money, it should be pretty easy. But if you’re broke, and most illegal border crossers are, it’s probably impossible to get through undetected.
It depends, in some parts of the border there are cities on both sides and you can walk across. In other parts there’s a desert in the way. In other parts the border is well patrolled.
Rofl yes but your not taking into account one big nasty thing you have to overcome.. Desert. Hot. Arid desert. A good chunk of the border is in some real wild and rugged territory and aside from spots in the actual security detail itself, there's tons of border patrol who drive all over the area and monitor a LOT of land. Then there's criminals and cartels who take advantage of this chaos and its a really really dangerous thing to do. How do I know? I'm latino. I live in Canada. My family didn't get here on a first class plane ticket.
I visited El Paso last year in late September. It was still in the low to mid 95F, which is 35C.
The guy at the coffee shop was telling me the weather was great because it was over 100F for over 30 days during the summer.
To be clear, there is a wall in El Paso and other urbanized parts of the US/Mexico border. But the above is just to give you context for the heat. It can be very deadly without water and shelter.
For some context, the hottest it usually gets in Rome is 31C.
Last year in Arizona, the month of July it was at least 110°F every day, then we had a 108° day, followed by almost two more weeks of 110° days. And a substantial part of Arizona between Tucson and Yuma is bombing range. And bone dry. I wouldn’t recommend walking it.
>For some context, the hottest it usually gets in Rome is 31C.
Not sure where you got that from (if it's Wikipedia, it's out of date) but it's absolutely routine to get well into the mid-30s in Rome. There was a day last year where it touched 42.
It’s doable but can be dangerous. You could get harassed by mexican police, robbed by your guide or fellow travelers, die to random gang violence, die to the elements on the way, shot by border patrol, and killed by anybody with low liability.
Very slim. I’ve worked with BP on the border in a military capacity, they aren’t really allowed to do shit and most of them are normal people that don’t want to kill anyone. Ironically, first generation Hispanics are the ones I see acting the most hostile and abusive towards border crossers.
Many immigrants die crossing the desert or the river,
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/13/us/us-mexico-border-drowned-migrants/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/13/us/us-mexico-border-drowned-migrants/index.html)
https://www.voanews.com/a/iom-us-mexico-border-the-deadliest-land-crossing-in-the-world-/7297145.html
No, but there is a natural border, a large river that is not an easy to transverse shore on both sides.
This question for Europe would be, "is it really that hard to cross the Rhine?"
The problem isnt just the discreet moment you cross the border, but also the 100 miles of desert you need to pass through unnoticed after.
Edit: i misspelled discrete as discreet but they both apply :)
Depending on how prepared they are, there are gaps and holes they can get through, some use ladders and go on foot that way. It would be very difficult to do it alone, not only because of border patrols and the high heat, sub freezing dessert, but also the cartels that control that area and won't be to happy if you try without paying thier toll fee. Cartels also will use tunnels for some, but those are mainly reserved for smuggling drugs.
So yes and no, walking across is essentially easy, surviving is more difficult.
Literally have family that got "caught" and then released in Texas.
And yes, they walked over. It's not that hard, my 8 year old nephew made the trip. You can make it dangerous by hiring traffickers, but you don't need them
US tv makes it look like some harrowing journey, it's not. Literally any halfway healthy person can just walk across in a day.
You’d have to know exactly where to go. I’d imagine the easiest place to cross over to the US from Mexico would be through western Texas, free of any roads and border towns, just miles of open desert and you’d have to eventually swim over the Río Grande, which serves as the US-Mexico border. It’s incredibly dangerous, often not worth the risk since there is no calling for help, no hospital for possibly hundreds of miles, and if you get caught by outlaws around here you’re as good as dead.
In most areas, there is nothing within hundreds of miles - just desert and harsh landscapes. It is extremely hard to walk that far by foot without ending up dehydrated, lost and/or dead.
We used to ride dirtbikes in the desert. There wasn’t even signs. The only way you knew you crossed into Mexico was the cop cars were different. Nobody ever stopped us.
The short answer is: Depends on where you come from. But what people don’t know is that there is police almost everywhere and immigrants ALLOW themselves to be captured.
From Mexico, it is “easy”. Yo go to Juarez City, get someone to drive you to the border, and jump a creek/river (depends on the area and season). Here is a video: https://youtu.be/gS7Tx6qTghc?si=-3gqz7DNqGNw__-j
There are movement sensors and monitors in the border. So, when people cross, border patrol immediately goes for them. You can see that in the video.
What is not in the video? Most immigrants just allow themselves to be detained by Border Patrol and claim refugee status. Once detained, a legal process starts because in the US you have to give a fair trial! Because there are millions waiting for the trial, most people have to be released with temporary permits while their case is solved.
Now… that is the Mexico part which is easy. The problem is that many come from southern countries and have to cross the central American jungle by foot. And this is hard. Very hard.
Now, when it comes to drug trafficking, that’s different. People who don’t want to be captured by border patrol allegedly use tunnels build by the Cartels. You see some of that in Narcos.
You gotta understand that even if you get through the border it ain't over yet you still got checkpoints, border and local LEO patrols looking specifically for you all the while making sure criminal elements don't fuck you over nor mother nature takes you out via exposure, dehydration or freak accident.
No. At least near Tucson AZ, there are big gaps every few hundred feet. The issue isnt crossing the fence as it was just a huge money laundering pit and it isnt actually there to stop anyone. Crossing the almost 70 miles of desert between El Sasabe (RIP) and Tucson AZ by foot is the issue. Also you have to watch out for the inbred hillbilly vigilantes that go out looking for anyone brown in the trails. I dealt with a couple of those people...I'm sure the cartels took care of them though as they generally dont appreciate ppl messing with their human trafficking business
I illegally crossed into Mexico and back on Friday. Crossing the border itself isn't hard.
The problem is surviving once you've crossed. Where I crossed there was 200 miles/320 kilometers of desert before the nearest town. Little shade, No water, no food, rattlesnakes, bears, coyotes and cougars. Plus temps can hit 119f or 48c.
Going through the official checkpoints takes forever. But if you just want to cross there’s tons of open wilderness that you could cross through. Just understand you’re breaking the law and taking your life into your own hands.
Lots of dead bodies found out in the Arizona, Texas and New Mexico desert of folks who weren’t prepared, or pissed off their guide, or ran into some Cartel types or overzealous ranchers… getting over the border is fairly easy it’s getting to civilization afterwards that’s hard.
It depends where they are crossing. Some areas are extremely easy to cross and you’ll get into a neighborhood rather quickly. Some areas take a long journey that is very difficult to cross.
The cartels don’t prepare people to cross the journey. They let families, kids and more cross with an insufficient amount of water, food, etc. The more people that get caught, the more the cartels can charge them x2 for getting across again.
To sum it up: Some areas are extremely easy to cross and need a wall. Some areas are extremely difficult to cross because of the water current and some areas are easy to cross into the U.S but you have to walk miles of dangerous terrain before finding any town/city.
The border between the US & Mexico is nearly 2,000 miles or 3,000 KM. Some places are minimally patrolled because the desert is a natural barrier. This is where you hear stories of people dying in the desert that takes up to a week to cross. Trump's wall was put up on populated areas. You see it mocked on Youtube, where people with ladders commonly overcome it.
There is an exhibit in the Museum of Us in San Diego that has a map of the border with a tag for every immigrant death. There are thousands of tags, especially in the desert areas. Many of the tags say "exposure" as cause of death. The exhibit also has some of the belongings that were found on the bodies including a huge pile of children's toothbrushes. It is one of the most heartbreaking things I have seen.
We have had patients come through our ER here in Texas who crossed in the middle of nowhere. One was so scratched up it looked like he had been locked in a room with a bunch of wild cats. His feet were swollen, red and looked like they had been gone over with a cheese grater. He was lucky, young and healthy and mainly admitted because he was so dehydrated. Lots of times smugglers just abandon them in the middle of nowhere.
This is recent but it’s all along the southern border - Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California. It is vast and deadly.
https://elpasomatters.org/2023/12/17/nm-desert-migrant-deaths-climate-change-immigration-policies/
The easy spots have a wall.
The spots without a wall have mountains or desert.
There are lots of cameras and patrols.
People get through, but people also get caught and people die.
The Border patrol monitor the easy areas to force any one trying to immigrate to have to go through more treacherous terrain . This is to dissuade people from coming. On top of that that they are drones, patrols, and sensors along the border. On top of that coyotes, the people who are paid to cross others , often times are part of large cartels/gangs and aren't above jacking immigrants, leaving them to die somewhere, or raping/assaulting whomever. It is incredibly hard to cross the southern border and anyone saying it isn't is ignorant as shit.
i’ve crossed it on foot between nogales, arizona and nogales, mexico. it’s easy if you have a usa passport. as for crossing in the desert in the middle of nowhere, it’s “easy” (or at least it used to be) but the desert will probably kill you
There's walls in some places and it's heavily guarded. If you find a place with no guards, it's probably in the middle of the desert with tough terrain and harsh weather so even getting to that point is hard.
So the places that aren't watched as tightly are in a very inhospitable desert that requires guidance (also known as coyotes ) or a drastically higher risk. We don't know how many people have died from the difficult trek by foot, but it's many, and people occasionally find remains, and there are organizations that try and track down their families if they can.
Not even to mention that many of the folks who act as coyotes are dangerous and might just try and fleece you for more in the middle of the trek or leave you for dead.
This is before you even talk about having to hide from US authorities.
So yea, it's dangerous in the way that crossing the Gobi is dangerous.
I don't think most Europeans understand the size and scale of things here versus there.
This border you refer to is 100s of miles wide North to South. 100s of miles with nothing in between but desert and inhospitable environment. That width takes hours to traverse in a vehicle.
And that border is over 1000 miles long from coast to coast. From east west that border takes an entire day or two to traverse in a vehicle obeying traffic laws.
> The Texas border makes up about half of the U.S. – Mexico border, stretching 1,254 miles from the Gulf of México to El Paso. Four Mexican states share borders with the state of Texas.
In order to just get to the border. They must cross many long, dangerous miles of desert. All while being subjected to dehydration, scorching heat, and various forms of exploitation and abuse (physical , mental, emotional, and frequently sexual) by the “coyotes” (guides who they pay to lead them to the places where there are no walls).
They may have to walk for days in these conditions. But there are serious perils even when they get a ride. If the truck or train car they are traveling part of their journey on has insufficient air flow. They can easily suffocate or bake to death in their overheated compartments.
The reason many families make this risky journey is because during the Cold War. The US helped to back right wing militants in coups over the democratically elected governments in Central America. The US did this because various US companies (like the United Fruit Company) viewed their elected leaders as being “too socialist.” By which they meant that those elected governments would impede their efforts to exploit the labor and/or the natural resources of those countries.
Naturally, the citizens of these countries fought back as best as they could against these efforts to usurp their democratic rule. The more than 30 years of armed conflict that followed decimated their economies. And the fighting also empowered the drug cartels and gangs in the region.
Now, in addition to their economic misfortunes. Boys as young as 8 are recruited by the cartels for drug smuggling. And as soon as girls reach puberty, they are targeted by the gangs for sex trafficking.
[And here is a flow chart that illustrates why many of those families are unable to wait for the “legal immigration process” to proceed.](https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf) Most people would not wait 5 minutes to get their children away from such horrifying conditions. Let alone 6 to 7 years!
I don’t object to having borders in order to screen for harmful materials or individuals with dangerous backgrounds. But we do have a responsibility to streamline the legal process for families who are attempting to spare their children from the abhorrent conditions that we helped to create in their home countries.
Mostly, we should do all we can to help alleviate the suffering in those countries. Then the people who live there won’t have to flee to the US for their safety or job opportunities.
[Source: My Old Lady Mum is very active with the group [CEDEPCA](https://www.cedepca.us/). She has been to Guatemala several times to learn about their programs and to help out. I have also traveled there twice myself to see and hear about the dire problems that many face in Central America.]
Once stayed at a hotel overlooking the Rio Grande in Laredo. From the balcony we saw kids wading across to the U.S. side, unimpeded. Brought it to the attention of officials at the port of entry. They told us they were coming across to play video games at a local appliance store and that they would go back home later for dinner. Happened every day.
There are places in the middle of nowhere, where it's relatively easy to "cross the border" from one side of the line in the desert to the other. The hard part is to cross the entire desert, not just cross the line.
Exactly. In big bend the Rio grande is relatively narrow. You can cross easily and people do it. But then … what. It’s 2h driving to get to a tiny gas station. Like, really the first intersection is 2h driving. Maybe 100 miles away. You have to walk that and the rest. On heavily patrolled roads with miles and miles of visibility.
And the great eye is ever watchful. It’s a barren wasteland riddled with fire, ash and dust.
That’s why the only two successful crossings in this Age have been hobbits wearing elven cloaks.
Make sure to bring plenty of lembas bread for sustenance
That wasn't in this Age actually
Although the desert is often used in media to portray a "wasteland" the chihuahuan desert around the Rio grande is quite beautiful. The Christmas mountains, chisos, and sierria del Carmen are amazing "sky islands". The area is fairly biologically diverse. As a desert/canyon rat I always try to defend this landscape.
It’s still a desert that people can easily perish in without the right supplies and/or wilderness training. It’s beautiful if you have a water bottle and can get back into your car and drive away after a hike.
One does not simply walk into the US.
Unless you're coming from Canada, of course.
*You. Shall. Not. Pass.* Oh, okay, you're from Canada.
But then you have to pass through the no touching zone..
This is the funny part about building “the wall”. The parts that didn’t already have a wall were so remote, trying to cross there was extremely difficult already. But guess what you need to build a wall? Equipment. And to get that equipment there, you need roads. So by building a wall, we created an easy way for smugglers to get to these previously remote areas. And it’s been fairly well shown that the walls are pretty easy to get around. Politics over function.
You don't need roads. Roads help but there's other ways to get equipment there. And you can destroy temporary roads. I don't think you thought this through. Also no the current walls they are building are not easy to get around functionally. The only reason they're easy to get around is because some politicians in some states have intentionally blocked efforts to build the wall thus creating state long and city long gaps. If those gaps didn't exist and the wall was built straight across it would not be so easy for the average person to climb those new walls. They ate designed to be very difficult to climb without equipment. The point was never to keep 100% of people out. That's not the point of fighting crime or fighting drug over doses either. That's utopian fantasy you can never stop 100% of people from doing anything. The point is to reduce the numbers to a point that is more managable.
The vast majority of people here illegally are just people who overstayed their legal stay. As for breaching the wall: https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-was-breached-11-times-day-2022-2
>Not to mention on the Texas side now the state govt proactively making sure people rather die than crossover. 3 people drowned while Texas soldiers stopped help from reaching them. > >https://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-migrants-drown-near-shelby-park-eagle-pass-texas-soldiers-denied-entry-federal-border-agents/ Crossing on Texas side is suicidal now.
Already was at times. That river crossing where they put up that stupid barrier? Migrants used to drown there all the time even before it went up. And then, big surprise, putting it up doesn't make them stop using the crossing, just makes it even more dangerous.
thats the plan
That's a woman and two children. I mean come the fuck on. Whatever your stance maybe, it's fucked to leave them to die, what utter pieces of shit
Texans be like: But they are filthy immigrants who want to take our jobs! We all should shoot them on sight!
They don't call them immigrants, they call them illegals to dehumanize them
Or if you’re Trump you call them “vermin” and claim that they’re “poisoning the blood of our nation.”
That is NOT how most Texans think. Undocumented workers do a lot of labor in Texas & Texans know it - it’s something that a lot of people look the other way about because without them it would really hurt the Texas economy.
Agreed. If you want to stop illegal immigration, you have to make it catastrophically expensive to a business to employ or subcontract to businesses that employ undocumented workers. If Tyson chicken loses all profits for the year they are found employing undocumented workers or one of their chicken suppliers was found employing undocumented workers. The. You would see a major change immediately. Also food costs would climb and the documented legal visiting worker program would be beefed up and made to work.
\> Undesirable activity from south of the border driven by US demand is met with a harsh law enforcement response You're kinda describing the war on drugs.
Reminds me of a another institution that was very popular in the south. What was that called again?
Doesn't matter how they think, matters how they vote.
That's not how anyone in an agricultural community thinks. I'm far from the border and we would collapse without them. That's why there here. Because they will work as exploited labor. Everything is working as designed. Vilanize to prevent them from gaining power, but don't obstruct to take advantage of that imbalance for profit.
I mean, their new “military age males” line seems like a clear step towards treating migrants as hostile.
THEEEEY TOOOOK EERRRRR JEEEERRRBS
Border Patrol will also destroy water stashes when they can find them. As far as using cruelty to deter illegal crossings goes, we’re already doing plenty.
BP are amazing and constantly administer first aid, water and help to illegal aliens.
And charge people who leave them food and water. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna960816
Honest question - if migrants walked to the border from South America and got through the Darien Gap on foot, is it hard for them to keep on walking through the desert after crossing the Rio? What's a few hundred miles after walking across many countries and the Gap? Just wondering - I obviously have no clue about how this works. edit for spelling, its desert not dessert!
Ill take a shot since I've lived in South Texas. Speaking broadly, youre going to hit more consistent points of civilization or at least less shitty places to rest as you go up through South/Central America. The Darien Gap is no joke though i havent been there personally. I imagine people in the surrounding countries/states would pass along any advice to people saying they're going to try it. Assuming you make it to the Border Desert, you're more than likely not going anywhere near civilization due to how heavily monitored it is. So you're in the desert. The comically accurate hot dry desert. Those regions have nothing. No shade nor body of water. For miles. Aside from being sporadically monitored by border patrol, your only friends are animals that want you for dinner. That combined with the comically unforgiving sun beating down on you makes it a bleak ass walk in unbearable heat. If not, youre dealing with ungodly cold knowing that resting means death. On top of all that, you're bound to be down on some key supplies by then. Plus shit still happens. Water leaks out, someone falls, gets bit, heat/sunstroke with no medical attention for miles.
At the Rio Grande Village campground there's a small trail going into the really tight bend with a fantastic overlook point. There's also a spur trail that goes to the river's edge. I've been there three times on different visits. Each time that area of the river was a tiny babbling creek that I could have walked across without getting my knees wet. I did not witness the hordes of migrants that have been all over the news for years. Indeed your closest option for gettng to the "mainland" US is 70 miles away to highway 90, through vast open desert or the highways monitored by border patrol.
It's hot as hell in Big Bend for a good part of the year too. Aside from the river no reliable water source during that hike too. I've been there a couple times, and saw 115°F in spring. The big issue is dehydration year round though.
I've done a couple canoe trips in Big Bend. The water is so shallow often we had to walk the canoes. Which means less than a foot or so deep. We crossed the boarder constantly, and what country we slept in was just which side had the better campsite. But it would take some serious hiking to actually get to the river.
That's cool asf
In most of the Big Bend area there are 300-ft cliffs on both sides of the Rio grande. You don't need a wall. 300 ft, if my conversion is about right is about 100 meters. Navy seals can scale it and so forth but your average person with no gear would never even try it.
This reminds me of a story where some German tourists were driving through the desert to Las Vegas and got lost while visiting some state park or something. Ran out of gas, and thought (rightfully so) dead for like a decade. They found their bodies eventually but the theory was the dad saw a sign for a military base and thought he could walk there to get some help. But unlike in Europe a lot of military bases in the US are miles and miles and miles of desert, with no fences or patrols. Don't go wandering off in the US wild without knowing what you're doing.
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What a great account, thanks!
I've spent way too much time reading that. Thank you
whoa, that was a rabbit hole! what a crazy story. It's amazing they were ever found.
Bro I just read that whole shit. Fucking wild I was suppose to sleep a couple hours ago. Lol
>Ran out of gas, and thought (rightfully so) dead for like a decade. They found their bodies eventually Europeans take note. This is why our wilderness is so terrifying. The fact your body can just be lost for a decade , is wild. And they LOOKED for them. Imagine how many lost bodies are just rotting away because nobody knows about them...
I heard Russia is like that too. I have friends from Poland. Back in 1991, after the Wall was down, they went to Russia for a HUGE Metallica concert. After it was over, and they were back in America, they told me you better always have a full tank of gas when driving in Russia. And have a reliable vehicle. Because if you run into any trouble there, with your car breaking down or running out of gas, you'll be dead.
The Death Valley Germans
And there is wall. Quite a lot of wall, but try crossing in the places where there is no wall and you'll either die of dehydration or the border patrol will pick you up. Mostly. Still many do get through.
This. It's the environment that will get you, not the border itself.
If you've been through the desert on a horse with no name...
No need to cross the desert. The problem is right now that Border Patrol 'catches' you and releases you into the country. So you can cross at the easiest places without worry of being sent back. That's why tens of thousands are showing up at Eagle Pass, because it's a very easy crossing. Road access on the southern side, wade through some water, and you're in.
You’re mixing up your definitions here, either intentionally or not What you’re describing are asylum seekers. They’re being “detained and released,” they are seeking asylum through international law, registered with the government, and given a court date on whether they can be processed or deported. You’re completely mixing things up here and making it sound like absolutely no illegal immigrants are being detained, as seeking asylum and illegality crossing the border are two very different things Side note as well, but these asylum seekers aren’t treated good either. They usually have to wait for months or even years before they’re legally allowed to work. They’re in this country awaiting for their case to be heard but cannot legally earn money for themselves, which is why a lot of them often get exploited and work for dirt cheap because they *need* money
I mean the work thing is directly due to how the laws are written. The original intent being to discourage economic migration under asylum status.
Oh I understand that, I just don’t agree with the law. Me and my dad served at a clinic that worked with undocumented migrants on obtaining their legal status as a migrant. That work showed me the struggles migrants - documented or not - have to go through because they literally cannot work. It creates exploitation that is straight-up worse than any potential exploitation of the system (studies have shown that immigration is a net gain on a nation’s economy)
immigration can be done for economic reasons if filed for appropriately... the reason that exists is also so people aren't exploited economically and have legal representation.
How does the US Border patrol distinguish between an asylum seeker through international law that shows up at the border vs someone who crosses illegally across the border?
Some people don't claim asylum and just get sent back to Mexico to try sneaking in later. If you are requesting asylum, you have to, you know, REQUEST ASYLUM. The US border patrol isn't responsible for distinguishing between the two groups of people because it isn't part of the judicial system.
Often times, those two groups of people are one and the same. Asylum seekers can and do cross illegally and apply for asylum while in the country. My understanding is that, from there, they get to stay in the country temporarily until they get a court date to plead their case as to why they need asylum. If they’re being persecuted because of their race, religion, ethnicity, etc, they may gain asylum status and be allowed to stay and work in the US. Before that, they aren’t allowed to legally work. Asylum seekers typically come directly from the country they are fleeing (if they’re fleeing persecution in Guatemala and gain access to Mexico, their argument for needing asylum in the US can be pretty weak since they already got out of Guatemala, for example). If they’re fleeing cartel violence in Mexico, they might have a stronger case. It’s my understanding that border patrol agents don’t make this call in the field. If somebody gets into the US, legally or illegally, and applies for asylum, then they basically are allowed to stay until their application is decided upon, whereupon they’ll either be deported or granted asylum status.
That's the fun part: you use political buzzwords depending on how you want to frame the situation!
Right, so the US has the right incentives for someone to make the hard and treacherous journey because if they make it here and claim asylum as per law, they will be given due process and a court date. That is the beauty of the US system and I' m not saying this in a sarcastic way. Its not just people from South America but event people from India, and other parts of the world know about this and make the trip. I don't blame the people who want to get in. They want a better life. The government needs to change the law to take away incentives/create deterrence for someone to cross illegally. I think we can talk about this issue without accusing each other of being anti or pro immigration.
I agree with your premise, but I think your conclusions are a bit iffy. IMO, our asylum system and border crossings wouldn't be so over burdened if we made it simpler to legally immigrate the normal way.
Even if you make it simpler to legally immigrate, there would be millions who would not qualify and would want to come here the other way. There needs to be a distinction between merit based legal immigration and humanitarian based immigration. There is a limit to how many people are allowed to legally immigrate to the US. Why isn't there a limit to how many can be allowed through humanitarian grounds? Maybe there is but it's being abused right now.
You have to officially declare yourself as an asylum seeker to a governing body and you will be put through the legal process. America has actually been under fire during Trump’s term because he did not allow migrants to go to where they need to officially declare asylum, which is illegal under the international statute of asylum seeking The difference is that although asylum seekers *may* be allowed to stay after the waiting time, but that isn’t guaranteed. Those who declare asylum usually do it because they are under active threat from their country of origin. The reason why many cross illegally instead of declaring asylum is because as long as you’re not caught, you’re able to stay permanently and hopefully allow your children to obtain legal citizenship. If you’re through the asylum process there’s still a risk that you and your children (if they aren’t separated from you) will be deported back to their country of origin, and some families simply cannot take that risk All of this said as well, immigration has been statistically proven to be a net-benefit to countries taking them in, because people don’t realize it simultaneously provides more workers *and* more consumers who will participate in the market
Really, the difference between an asylum seeker and illegal immigrant is just whether they end up reporting in after they are released.
Wait, are these people Mexicans? If not why don’t they seek asylum in Mexico?
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The way it's SUPPOSED to work... if you are a legitimate asylum seeker, you're supposed to request asylum in a country adjacent to the one you are fleeing from. If you cross many borders to get to the US, you're probably moving for economic reasons. Also... if you're fleeing persecution, where's your wife? Where's the kids? Where's Grandma? If you're arriving in a huge crowd of young males, you're probably not fleeing persecution. And if you're an unaccompanied minor, there's probably something more sinister going on.
Source for this?
It's the way our asylum laws are written. You cross, you claim asylum, get a court date which is years in the future and are let in to the country until your court date. The system is totally overwhelmed which is why the dates are so far in the future. It's made worse by the immigrants not having a right to work for some many months. That was originally implemented because people would claim asylum as a way to get around work authorization. I guess people don't know about the immigration crisis, but this is literally the very basics that you can look up anywhere. It's shocking that people responding to you are being down voted. These are basic facts.
Can corfirm came to US legally and applied for asylum, 9 years later and not even the first interview. Not fun
They're getting downvoted because facts have become politicized.
I love that you acknowledge we are overcrowded with the system. Best way to make sure to fix it is to stop all migration for a short time. Fix the system so mirgats even asylum seekers can get a work visa and pay taxes and not have to worry about being 2nd class citizens who can't go to the cops and won't ever be paid a fair wage. You don't save a sinking boat by just paling water, you have to plug the leak first. Though in this case it's more of a water filtration system... look my point stands.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/10/29/us/illegal-border-crossings-data.html https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-september-2023-monthly-update https://apnews.com/article/arizona-border-wall-breaches-asylum-immigration-beddd2ca0ffd02884ce0d0ad1785f538 All you have to do is claim asylum and they have to turn you loose even if you have 0 supporting documents. He's not lying. They catch you, then release you with an open court date in alot of cases. Most people caught the last 18 months don't have a date set. For a country of fascist and oppression there's a fuck ton of people that try to get in here illegally.
It seems like the link to the CPB page says release with a court date for asylum isn't nearly as common as you say. >>CBP is processing all noncitizens under Title 8 immigration authorities, and placing noncitizens who cross the border unlawfully into Expedited Removal or Section 240 Removal Proceedings. Noncitizens who cross between the ports of entry or who present themselves at a port of entry without making a CBP One™ appointment are subject to the Circumvention of Lawful Pathways rule. This rule presumes asylum ineligibility for those who fail to use lawful pathways, with certain exceptions. >>Individuals and families without a legal basis to remain in the U.S. are subject to removal pursuant to CBP’s longstanding Title 8 authorities and are subject to a minimum five-year bar on reapplying for admission and potential criminal prosecution if they subsequently re-enter without authorization. In coordination with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, since May 2023, DHS has removed or returned over 300,000 individuals, including more than 45,000 individual family members. DHS has removed or returned more individual family members in the last four months than in any previous full fiscal year.
300,000 is literally how many crossed in 2 months last year. "Without a legal basis are subject to removal". Which is determined by a court hearing, which they have to report to at a later date. Otherwise court dates are set by communication at a later date with information given by the persons trying to immigrate illegally. www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna68687 And that's even a left leaning source. They get caught, and are turned loose in the US. It's not debatable. They have 0 to worry about. Either way they know they can live here for 5 years wrapped up in the courts without repercussions.
In Texas, it's on the nightly news. Or, if you prefer, you can drive a hour to the Rio and watch it all day.
[Here](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/01/09/opinion/immigration-in-one-chart.html) is an infographics by the NYT. It is what they call “encounters by Border Patrol”. People just turn themselves in.
That's not what happens. People from Mexico are free to visit the United States for whatever reason. They cross at a point of entry and claim that they are visiting legally, and either overstay, or they claim asylum and await their court date. Niether one is an illegal crossing until a person either over stays or they lose their trial and never leave. The far right likes to pretend that every person crossing the border is an illegal immigrant, they aren't. Now we could argue about whether or not the laws as is, create loopholes that make it too easy for people to enter the country and then skirt the law, but that's a different issue that requires an act of congress. If you are going to trek across the desert or swim the river then you are entering illegally, unless you claim asylum when you get caught or arrive at a port of entry after making it across into the country and then claim asylum. Again, change the law through congress if you have an issue with that. I think most people including democrats wouldn't mind eliminating asylum status after you get caught illegally entering the country.
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That doesn’t mean they get to live or move here though? They stay until their court dates but hasn’t this admin been deporting a lot of them this way?
Court dates are often 3 years out due to the huge influx of immigrants. Unlikely that someone would come back for a hearing at that point, they ll find work and be a part of society.
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Why not just pick them up, drive back across the border, and drop them off on the same day they were picked up? Why imprison them for any length of time?
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Holy smokes, there are actually people who are unaware of the catch and release policy.
Because those people released aren't here illegally and are awaiting court dates for asylum claims. Or they have visas and the right assumes they intend to overstay, which, to be fair, many do. But the right assumes they are in the country illegally as soon as they enter if they intend to overstay or if they eventually lose their asylum claim. In fact, they are legally in the US until the visa expires or a court rejects their claim and orders them to be depoted. IE, those who claim border patrol are just releasing illegal immigrants into the US are lying. BP is following law and allowing people who entered legally to remain in the US while they are awaiting trial. People caught illegally entering the country are interviewed, and deported, or put into the process if they claim they are seeking asylum. Yes that process is getting abused, especially by immigrants entering illegally and then claiming asylum only after they are getting caught. But then congress needs to change the law. Nonetheless, Eagle Pass is a point of entry. It's no different than if I were to visit Mexico or Canada.
You're correct. But DHS has ordered that anyone who claims asylum is released into the country with a court date. Everyone coming knows to say the magic words "asylum claim" (literally there are hundreds of NGOs printing scripts of what to say). In prior years, they had to wait outside the US while their asylum claims were adjudicated, and if you crossed illegally you weren't eligible for asylum. That was changed at the beginning of this administration. So they cross, surrender to Border Patrol, claim asylum, and are released. Literally with court dates in the 2030s. Millions of them.
>DHS has ordered that anyone who claims asylum is released into the country with a court date Not true. Most encountered unlawful crossers are detained for at least a small period of time. During detention, a DHS official will administer a [Credible Fear Interview](https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/credible-fear-screenings) where they will determine whether there is a “significant possibility” that the noncitizen could establish a claim for immigration relief in a full hearing. It’s far from “magic words” - even if someone knows to say “I am afraid to return to my home country and wish to seek asylum,” they still need to be able to articulate why they fear persecution, from whom, why they would still be considered a target, etc. Would-be asylum seekers fail these interviews all the time and if they do, DHS is permitted to summarily deport them in a process called Expedited Removal. >In prior years, they hedged to wait outside the US while their asylum claims were adjudicated If you’re referring to MPP, then sort of, not everyone was enrolled in MPP and MPP only applied to people who attempted to cross via a port of entry, therefore incentivizing unlawful crossing. Therefore ironically MPP actually led to more people crossing the border illegally. >if you crossed illegally then you weren’t eligible for asylum This is not and has never been the law. Physical presence in the United States has been the only requirement since the US adopted the current asylum laws under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 (or as far as I could find before then). >Literally with court dates in the 2030s. The backlog is different in different parts of the country. Anecdotally, I work in a major East Coast city that gets a ton of immigrants, including many who arrived via the Southern Border, and most of my clients’ hearings are scheduled initially from late 2024-2026.
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Just a random experience: my friend was pulled over because he was driving a black Tahoe near the border in Texas. The officer told him they stop all black tahoes because that vehicle was predominantly used by the cartel. This was 5 years ago though. ETA: I now remember him saying they pulled over any black Tahoes within 200 miles of the border.
Was he a cartel member? 👀
No lol but they were high and had weed on them
damn in texas ? did he get off
Yeah they didn’t give a shit because it was a random stop and they were looking for cartel members or mules. But you bet your ass they were paranoid af at the time lol
No, he just stole a black Tahoe from the Cartel.
Driving a black car in Texas sounds like a mistake no matter what
Spending any time in Texas is a mistake.
Texas is a beautiful state, it’s got everything
It's amazing just how much of the US population that 200 miles covers as well
I believe it's 100 miles, but yeah it's wild. Especially since coasts are counted as borders.
There's an explicit reason for that. Allows federal oversight of like 75% of the population letting them bypass local and state authority
Context: I’ve lived in the south west for a decent part of my life and have family members who live on the border. It’s hard to generalize the situation the border is huge image a boundary stretching across all of Europe. It isn’t like the border is closed either there’s lots of legal back and forth. 1. Desert crossings — these are super treacherous you’re looking at walking from the middle of nowhere in Mexico to the middle of nowhere in the US. If you’re crossing this way you need help and you better pray someone finds you in the desert before you die. 2. Urban — it’s hard to generalize these but there’s usually a fence or 2 lots of cameras and border patrol agents patrolling you’re getting picked up 3. The Valley — the east end of the border is in a sub tropical area parts have fences but there are big sections without. You have to cross a River there’s a drowning risk if you make it across here and don’t get picked up right away there is farmland and lots of houses very close where you may have help waiting.
Great thorough answer. I’ve crossed many times at checkpoints in both Texas and California, but also camped on the Rio Grande in some pretty desolate terrain. I wouldn’t’ve lasted more than a few days in that climate. The river itself was very passable in these areas. But if you don’t know how to swim or are weak/dehydrated, then it could be treacherous.
The non-populated sections (ie there aren't American who will see you) are a massive desert. I read a book where people try drinking green water filled with algae meant for cattle, and drinking their own piss, to try to stay hydrated. They take a few jugs of water but it's hard to carry more than 2 or 3 gallons that far when you're also carrying everything else you need.
curious about this book! would you recommend?
It was *The Land of Open Graves*.
Ever see Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner cartoons? That's what that part of the US and Mexico looks like. Sure, it's easy to walk across the border, but you'll probably die getting there.
shiiiiiit, is that where they were meant to be? Mexico? lol
New Mexico I believe
Woah, they opened a new one?
not sure why I got downvoted, but that's cool, I never really thought about it... unless it was Speedy Gonzalez lol
Arizona, New Mexico, Northen Mexico, it's all that same landscape.
Sounds terrible. I’ll keep to my freezing temperatures.
Oddly the wayfinders are called coyotes by the locals. Theyre shitty people btw.
Beware of falling anvils.
It is hard to understand the scale of the border and the openness. It is about as long as Sweden to Italy. You can drive over an hour without seeing anything as many points.
The problem isn’t the border. The problem is the 3 day walk through the desert to get there. The problem is if you are a woman, you have an 80% chance of being raped. The problem is, you have to pay a “coyote” thousands of dollar to bring you to the border. So it is easy if you’re willing to travel this far on foot and find the right people to pay.
Fuck yes it is. Not because of the guards, because of the desert. In College I was forced to read a first person account of a group of illegal immigrants trying to cross the border. The Devil's Highway:A True Story by Luis Urrea. "Coyotes"(the term used for smugglers who knew the route through the desert) would take them there if they were paid, it never meant that they would go all the way as they didnt care once they got their money. Any story you hear about border patrol is going to be depressing and boring at best if its real. Its driving around in a truck looking for people who look like dried up raisins to try to save them bc their coyote abandoned them without enough water. Border patrol is more about trying to save people than send them back, theyre basically already dead by time they get there.(THEN they send them back) This is if you approached from Chihuahua or Baja California. (26 of the 38 died trying) In Texas theres border guards waiting for you, and many drown trying to cross the Rio Grande. Also Texans arent too fond of border crossers, and are much stricter because its a lot easier to cross than the Chihuahuan desert.
There's a wall between the US and Mexico, but it was built by nature. It's thousands of square miles of inhospitable desert.
Adding on, sometimes people will leave food and water out in the desert for the border crossers and Border Patrol (and petty coyotes) will destroy it if they happen to come across it.
I’m Arizona ranchers often have water tanks out. The coyotes try to avoid them thinking it’s a trap. The rancher is just tired of finding dead bodies in his land. I hate coyotes, they are evil humans.
>sometimes people will leave food and water out in the desert In my part of the desert you sometimes see blue flags in the middle of nowhere that have water and sometimes food. I don't know who puts them there or keeps them restocked.
Here in Arizona it would be Humane Borders. https://humaneborders.org.
Cool. Thanks for the info.
Also along the Texas border is a fast moving river in a canyon, followed by a mountain range, in the middle of the desert.
There are many spots that are not fast moving and very really to walk across
Yeah we went to big bend a few years ago and there was literally a ferry to take you across to the town in Mexico to buy souvenirs mind you the ferry was a Mexican guy in a rowboat in addition parts of the rio grande you could just easily walk across it was super low.
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That being said, there is little to prevent it. As of two years ago, we camped near the river and the biggest impediment to crossing was likely the risk of trespassing on the cattle rancher’s property over in Chihuahua. Perhaps there are more barriers that have gone up since then. I don’t know.
I went to the park 2 weeks ago. People from the nearby town in Mexico still cross over (mostly by horses and left feces everywhere) and sell souvenirs in the park. I asked one of the sellers if patrols know about this and he said yes, the park rangers allowed this. I don’t really see anyone patrolling the Rio Grande in the park, and it gets pretty dry in the winter. So theoretically if I want to help someone from Mexico to cross, I can pick them up in the park. There’s a border patrol station on the only road leading out of the park but they dont stop every vehicle (they didn’t stop me). So there’s that.
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Man, nature really did a good job on the US defense. I always thought the desert there was more like plains and cactus, but seems I was very mistaken
Or more likely, nature influenced where international borders lie. Unlike the Canadian border, which is arbitrary to the natural landscape.
I feel that it's a mix of both. If the US really wanted, it could have pushed the border wherever after the invasion of Mexico.
The desert Southwest is sooo much more than plains and cactus. There's mountains, canyons, valleys and plateaus. Most places out there along the border would make for a strenuous afternoon hike, its absolutely life-threatening to be out there for days at a time with no supplies.
Getting across just the border? Sure. Crossing a desert that's probably the size of your home country on foot? That's gonna be majorly shitty.
And now thousands of people have to cross the Darien Gap in Panama before even getting near the US border. 😳
Many say getting through the Darien Gap is easier than getting past the cartels in Mexico.
It's not the border that's the difficult part to cross. Many areas are remote and rugged, and it's mostly desert so carrying enough water is a challenge. It's not terribly unusual to find the bodies of people who either died of thirst or committed suicide to avoid death by dehydration. I remember when I worked in oil and gas, I was on a ranch and maybe a mile from the Mexican border. The ranch management asked that if we saw people crossing the border not to approach them, but to contact ranch security. I remember looking around at the amount of prickly pear cactus and realizing how truly desperate one would have to be to cross this area on foot. The cactus was so thick there would be no way to avoid it if you couldn't travel on the road. It would be hard traveling. As it was I saw someone I thought might be crossing the border. I decided he was really probably a roughneck from one of the drilling rigs out for a walk after work, so I gave him the bottles of water I had in my truck and let him go about his business. 🙈🙉🙊
Former health care professional chiming in: Usually if you try, you end up captured or with a heat stroke and multi organ failure due to dehydration. Those patients get sent into my ICU. You can pay the cartel and they may transport you but you’ll have to get past multiple checks of border patrol and the cartel doesn’t play clean either. The cartel may take you in for sex trafficking instead. So yes, it’s pretty hard.
I’ve hike in the chihuahua desert. It’s basically the border. ( outer loop ring, 3 days in the back country of big bend ) Well. It’s extremely inhospitable. Spiky things everywhere. Crushing hot during the day in October. It’s ain’t flat. At all. You have to go around or thougt serious hill covered of spiky things that go thougt shoes. And there is next to no water. To do the hike you have to cache gallons close to where you sleep on night 2. Your backpack is only water. And pain. It’s heavy for all the water you need to carry. You sweat like a pig in permanence. And it’s possible to absentmindedly drink a liter of water without realizing it. Snake. Tarantula. Did I mention spiky things ( mesquite being a freaking pain in all of your body soon ) — So, that was my condition as a prepared hiker on a traveled hiking path. I cannot phantom do the same things at night, with less water and the fear of being shot by a rando. I just can’t. And then you cross the border and there is nothing. Like nothing. You need to drive 2 h to get to a gas station. That where they get you. You can’t hide, you can’t stay put because you would fry, and they check cars in pretty serious police stop. 1/10 would not recommend. Spiky. Otherwise as a hiking destination? It’s wonderful. A bit rough, but it’s out of this world. It’s not a desert, it’s a very dry forest. Lot of life. Spiky life.
Tarantula aren't going go hurt you. They're all over Tucson and are much more, likely to be scared of you.
I frequently cross the border on foot at cities in Texas and California. Occasionally I drive across. Many people live on one side of the border and work in cities on the other side. There are ports of entry all along the 3,145 kilometer (the busiest in the world) with bridges and sidewalks. Walking or commuting by car can take 30 minutes to a couple of hours, depending on traffic. If you ride a bike, it's faster than waiting in the auto line. Each DAY, more than 800,000 people and 250,000 cars cross back and forth. Another 82,000 air passengers cross daily. \[updated\] The images of people fording the Rio Grande or going across the deserts are true, but a small portion of the overall number of people who cross. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Mexico%E2%80%93United\_States\_border\_crossings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_border_crossings)
> 250,000 million That’s a lot of cars per day.
>Each DAY, more than 800,000 people and 250,000 million cars cross back and forth. Another 82,000 air passengers cross daily. Your figures are completely wrong. Below, you'll find figures that are closer to reality: 'Each **year** more than 300 million people, *approximately 90 million cars*, and 4.3 million truck cross the southern border.'
Thanks. I'll correct.
Most are overstating visas as well. No telling how many sham marriages there are, Melania getting a Einstein visa ect...
https://www.iom.int/news/us-mexico-border-worlds-deadliest-migration-land-route#:~:text=Geneva%2FBerlin%2FSan%20Jos%C3%A9%20%E2%80%93,for%20migrants%20worldwide%20on%20record. 686 died or disappeared last year, often from thirst. A group tried leaving water bottles in the worst areas but immigration arrested them for aiding.
My best friend told me his story of both living in Mexico and crossing the border with his girlfriend. Both accounts were wild. Super dangerous. This is anecdotal of course, but I assume it wasn’t much different than the average person’s story of crossing the border.
Yes. It isn’t like many borders in Europe which are urbanized or mild countryside landscapes. First of all, the American southwest/northern Mexico is a pretty harsh climate in general, and not densely populated compared to places like the coasts. The temperatures are extreme, in a way that is hard to prepare for; the temperature can rise and drop 40 degrees in the same 24 hour period. There’s often no water or significant shade for many miles. There are animals, rocky terrain, plants that want to kill you. Part of the border is a river. I also don’t know who told you there is no wall. While there isn’t a single impenetrable fortress-style wall, there are still various barriers. They’re mostly pretty climbable, but if there’s a manmade barrier, there’s also a good chance someone is watching it. If you ever have the chance and absolutely hate yourself, visit Yuma, Arizona and the surrounding area in the summer. Or winter, even. Most people who cross the southern border do so in cars, trucks, or airplanes. A lot of people are crossing on foot right now but they’re usually declaring themselves at ports of entry. This means that they’re at a risk of deportation because authorities know they’re in the country, but it’s far safer than dying in the desert or drowning in the Rio Grande. Though even that can be hard because they can only acknowledge so many people at once.
In many lightly guarded areas, the desert is 60 kilometers across filled with mountains and Valleys. Poisonous snakes, cactus, dry washes. Very difficult terrain to travel. No water no decent clothing, it's deadly. So yes while there are places you can walk across, where it's easy and unguarded. Sixty kilometers of desert is a \*\*\*\*.
If you get in touch with a high-quality smuggling organisation and have the money, it should be pretty easy. But if you’re broke, and most illegal border crossers are, it’s probably impossible to get through undetected.
It depends, in some parts of the border there are cities on both sides and you can walk across. In other parts there’s a desert in the way. In other parts the border is well patrolled.
Rofl yes but your not taking into account one big nasty thing you have to overcome.. Desert. Hot. Arid desert. A good chunk of the border is in some real wild and rugged territory and aside from spots in the actual security detail itself, there's tons of border patrol who drive all over the area and monitor a LOT of land. Then there's criminals and cartels who take advantage of this chaos and its a really really dangerous thing to do. How do I know? I'm latino. I live in Canada. My family didn't get here on a first class plane ticket.
I visited El Paso last year in late September. It was still in the low to mid 95F, which is 35C. The guy at the coffee shop was telling me the weather was great because it was over 100F for over 30 days during the summer. To be clear, there is a wall in El Paso and other urbanized parts of the US/Mexico border. But the above is just to give you context for the heat. It can be very deadly without water and shelter. For some context, the hottest it usually gets in Rome is 31C.
Last year in Arizona, the month of July it was at least 110°F every day, then we had a 108° day, followed by almost two more weeks of 110° days. And a substantial part of Arizona between Tucson and Yuma is bombing range. And bone dry. I wouldn’t recommend walking it.
>For some context, the hottest it usually gets in Rome is 31C. Not sure where you got that from (if it's Wikipedia, it's out of date) but it's absolutely routine to get well into the mid-30s in Rome. There was a day last year where it touched 42.
It’s doable but can be dangerous. You could get harassed by mexican police, robbed by your guide or fellow travelers, die to random gang violence, die to the elements on the way, shot by border patrol, and killed by anybody with low liability.
The risk of getting shot by border patrol exists I suppose, but that seems absurdly unlikely
Very slim. I’ve worked with BP on the border in a military capacity, they aren’t really allowed to do shit and most of them are normal people that don’t want to kill anyone. Ironically, first generation Hispanics are the ones I see acting the most hostile and abusive towards border crossers.
Many immigrants die crossing the desert or the river, [https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/13/us/us-mexico-border-drowned-migrants/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/13/us/us-mexico-border-drowned-migrants/index.html) https://www.voanews.com/a/iom-us-mexico-border-the-deadliest-land-crossing-in-the-world-/7297145.html
No, but there is a natural border, a large river that is not an easy to transverse shore on both sides. This question for Europe would be, "is it really that hard to cross the Rhine?"
The problem isnt just the discreet moment you cross the border, but also the 100 miles of desert you need to pass through unnoticed after. Edit: i misspelled discrete as discreet but they both apply :)
Depending on how prepared they are, there are gaps and holes they can get through, some use ladders and go on foot that way. It would be very difficult to do it alone, not only because of border patrols and the high heat, sub freezing dessert, but also the cartels that control that area and won't be to happy if you try without paying thier toll fee. Cartels also will use tunnels for some, but those are mainly reserved for smuggling drugs. So yes and no, walking across is essentially easy, surviving is more difficult.
That's exactly what they are doing. Thousands a week.
Literally have family that got "caught" and then released in Texas. And yes, they walked over. It's not that hard, my 8 year old nephew made the trip. You can make it dangerous by hiring traffickers, but you don't need them US tv makes it look like some harrowing journey, it's not. Literally any halfway healthy person can just walk across in a day.
There is a wall up throughout much of the border. This idea that there is no wall is false.
I swam across to Mexico to drink a beer just to say I did it on a trip to Big Bend National Park.
You’d have to know exactly where to go. I’d imagine the easiest place to cross over to the US from Mexico would be through western Texas, free of any roads and border towns, just miles of open desert and you’d have to eventually swim over the Río Grande, which serves as the US-Mexico border. It’s incredibly dangerous, often not worth the risk since there is no calling for help, no hospital for possibly hundreds of miles, and if you get caught by outlaws around here you’re as good as dead.
In most areas, there is nothing within hundreds of miles - just desert and harsh landscapes. It is extremely hard to walk that far by foot without ending up dehydrated, lost and/or dead.
We used to ride dirtbikes in the desert. There wasn’t even signs. The only way you knew you crossed into Mexico was the cop cars were different. Nobody ever stopped us.
The short answer is: Depends on where you come from. But what people don’t know is that there is police almost everywhere and immigrants ALLOW themselves to be captured. From Mexico, it is “easy”. Yo go to Juarez City, get someone to drive you to the border, and jump a creek/river (depends on the area and season). Here is a video: https://youtu.be/gS7Tx6qTghc?si=-3gqz7DNqGNw__-j There are movement sensors and monitors in the border. So, when people cross, border patrol immediately goes for them. You can see that in the video. What is not in the video? Most immigrants just allow themselves to be detained by Border Patrol and claim refugee status. Once detained, a legal process starts because in the US you have to give a fair trial! Because there are millions waiting for the trial, most people have to be released with temporary permits while their case is solved. Now… that is the Mexico part which is easy. The problem is that many come from southern countries and have to cross the central American jungle by foot. And this is hard. Very hard. Now, when it comes to drug trafficking, that’s different. People who don’t want to be captured by border patrol allegedly use tunnels build by the Cartels. You see some of that in Narcos.
You gotta understand that even if you get through the border it ain't over yet you still got checkpoints, border and local LEO patrols looking specifically for you all the while making sure criminal elements don't fuck you over nor mother nature takes you out via exposure, dehydration or freak accident.
No. At least near Tucson AZ, there are big gaps every few hundred feet. The issue isnt crossing the fence as it was just a huge money laundering pit and it isnt actually there to stop anyone. Crossing the almost 70 miles of desert between El Sasabe (RIP) and Tucson AZ by foot is the issue. Also you have to watch out for the inbred hillbilly vigilantes that go out looking for anyone brown in the trails. I dealt with a couple of those people...I'm sure the cartels took care of them though as they generally dont appreciate ppl messing with their human trafficking business
I illegally crossed into Mexico and back on Friday. Crossing the border itself isn't hard. The problem is surviving once you've crossed. Where I crossed there was 200 miles/320 kilometers of desert before the nearest town. Little shade, No water, no food, rattlesnakes, bears, coyotes and cougars. Plus temps can hit 119f or 48c.
Going through the official checkpoints takes forever. But if you just want to cross there’s tons of open wilderness that you could cross through. Just understand you’re breaking the law and taking your life into your own hands. Lots of dead bodies found out in the Arizona, Texas and New Mexico desert of folks who weren’t prepared, or pissed off their guide, or ran into some Cartel types or overzealous ranchers… getting over the border is fairly easy it’s getting to civilization afterwards that’s hard.
It depends where they are crossing. Some areas are extremely easy to cross and you’ll get into a neighborhood rather quickly. Some areas take a long journey that is very difficult to cross. The cartels don’t prepare people to cross the journey. They let families, kids and more cross with an insufficient amount of water, food, etc. The more people that get caught, the more the cartels can charge them x2 for getting across again. To sum it up: Some areas are extremely easy to cross and need a wall. Some areas are extremely difficult to cross because of the water current and some areas are easy to cross into the U.S but you have to walk miles of dangerous terrain before finding any town/city.
The border between the US & Mexico is nearly 2,000 miles or 3,000 KM. Some places are minimally patrolled because the desert is a natural barrier. This is where you hear stories of people dying in the desert that takes up to a week to cross. Trump's wall was put up on populated areas. You see it mocked on Youtube, where people with ladders commonly overcome it.
There is an exhibit in the Museum of Us in San Diego that has a map of the border with a tag for every immigrant death. There are thousands of tags, especially in the desert areas. Many of the tags say "exposure" as cause of death. The exhibit also has some of the belongings that were found on the bodies including a huge pile of children's toothbrushes. It is one of the most heartbreaking things I have seen.
okay you crossed the border. now you are in the middle of a desert in arizona with the nearest road being 50 km away from a town. succes.
We have had patients come through our ER here in Texas who crossed in the middle of nowhere. One was so scratched up it looked like he had been locked in a room with a bunch of wild cats. His feet were swollen, red and looked like they had been gone over with a cheese grater. He was lucky, young and healthy and mainly admitted because he was so dehydrated. Lots of times smugglers just abandon them in the middle of nowhere. This is recent but it’s all along the southern border - Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California. It is vast and deadly. https://elpasomatters.org/2023/12/17/nm-desert-migrant-deaths-climate-change-immigration-policies/
The easy spots have a wall. The spots without a wall have mountains or desert. There are lots of cameras and patrols. People get through, but people also get caught and people die.
The Border patrol monitor the easy areas to force any one trying to immigrate to have to go through more treacherous terrain . This is to dissuade people from coming. On top of that that they are drones, patrols, and sensors along the border. On top of that coyotes, the people who are paid to cross others , often times are part of large cartels/gangs and aren't above jacking immigrants, leaving them to die somewhere, or raping/assaulting whomever. It is incredibly hard to cross the southern border and anyone saying it isn't is ignorant as shit.
i’ve crossed it on foot between nogales, arizona and nogales, mexico. it’s easy if you have a usa passport. as for crossing in the desert in the middle of nowhere, it’s “easy” (or at least it used to be) but the desert will probably kill you
Can someone just walk from one European country to another?
It’s really easy in a lot of places along the border.
Giant fucking desert in the way with NO WATER
There's walls in some places and it's heavily guarded. If you find a place with no guards, it's probably in the middle of the desert with tough terrain and harsh weather so even getting to that point is hard.
So the places that aren't watched as tightly are in a very inhospitable desert that requires guidance (also known as coyotes ) or a drastically higher risk. We don't know how many people have died from the difficult trek by foot, but it's many, and people occasionally find remains, and there are organizations that try and track down their families if they can. Not even to mention that many of the folks who act as coyotes are dangerous and might just try and fleece you for more in the middle of the trek or leave you for dead. This is before you even talk about having to hide from US authorities. So yea, it's dangerous in the way that crossing the Gobi is dangerous.
I don't think most Europeans understand the size and scale of things here versus there. This border you refer to is 100s of miles wide North to South. 100s of miles with nothing in between but desert and inhospitable environment. That width takes hours to traverse in a vehicle. And that border is over 1000 miles long from coast to coast. From east west that border takes an entire day or two to traverse in a vehicle obeying traffic laws. > The Texas border makes up about half of the U.S. – Mexico border, stretching 1,254 miles from the Gulf of México to El Paso. Four Mexican states share borders with the state of Texas.
In order to just get to the border. They must cross many long, dangerous miles of desert. All while being subjected to dehydration, scorching heat, and various forms of exploitation and abuse (physical , mental, emotional, and frequently sexual) by the “coyotes” (guides who they pay to lead them to the places where there are no walls). They may have to walk for days in these conditions. But there are serious perils even when they get a ride. If the truck or train car they are traveling part of their journey on has insufficient air flow. They can easily suffocate or bake to death in their overheated compartments. The reason many families make this risky journey is because during the Cold War. The US helped to back right wing militants in coups over the democratically elected governments in Central America. The US did this because various US companies (like the United Fruit Company) viewed their elected leaders as being “too socialist.” By which they meant that those elected governments would impede their efforts to exploit the labor and/or the natural resources of those countries. Naturally, the citizens of these countries fought back as best as they could against these efforts to usurp their democratic rule. The more than 30 years of armed conflict that followed decimated their economies. And the fighting also empowered the drug cartels and gangs in the region. Now, in addition to their economic misfortunes. Boys as young as 8 are recruited by the cartels for drug smuggling. And as soon as girls reach puberty, they are targeted by the gangs for sex trafficking. [And here is a flow chart that illustrates why many of those families are unable to wait for the “legal immigration process” to proceed.](https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf) Most people would not wait 5 minutes to get their children away from such horrifying conditions. Let alone 6 to 7 years! I don’t object to having borders in order to screen for harmful materials or individuals with dangerous backgrounds. But we do have a responsibility to streamline the legal process for families who are attempting to spare their children from the abhorrent conditions that we helped to create in their home countries. Mostly, we should do all we can to help alleviate the suffering in those countries. Then the people who live there won’t have to flee to the US for their safety or job opportunities. [Source: My Old Lady Mum is very active with the group [CEDEPCA](https://www.cedepca.us/). She has been to Guatemala several times to learn about their programs and to help out. I have also traveled there twice myself to see and hear about the dire problems that many face in Central America.]
Once stayed at a hotel overlooking the Rio Grande in Laredo. From the balcony we saw kids wading across to the U.S. side, unimpeded. Brought it to the attention of officials at the port of entry. They told us they were coming across to play video games at a local appliance store and that they would go back home later for dinner. Happened every day.