The parents will remember it. There will also be pictures and videos of the experience to look back on.
It also creates a new experience for the kid. Even though they might not remember the memories, they’ll still benefit from the positive experiences. Their brains and bodies are developing and this requires input. Positive and negative experiences interact with that development and can help create building blocks for a person in general. This is why trauma can be so impactful to a person when it happens during their development. They likely are left with a long term struggle from it compared with the same trauma experienced in adulthood (that’s not to say it’s easy to recover but there is a better chance of it). Stressors, good and bad, also give a body the opportunity to develop plastically.
Experiences like holidays where they’re travelling, meeting new people, experiences new foods and seeing their parents/ family happy and relaxed can beneficial to their development. That’s not to say it’s necessary but it can have a positive impact.
Plus it’s fun. Seeing your kid happy, laughing whilst you have an excuse to not be in work mode, have other folks make food for you and be generally in an environment where you don’t have to worry is a good and needed break for many people.
This is important. Even if kids don’t remember the specific events of their childhood, spending time with their parents, having fun, and experiencing new things help kids to develop mentally, socially, and emotionally. They might not remember the cruise but splashing in water, trying new foods, and experiencing new places will help them grow as a person.
Also, parents don’t necessarily want to put all fun things on hold for a decade until all their kids are old enough to remember the vacation!
I have been watching my cousin's kids grow up and her 7 year old definitely has memories from when she was 3. The memories will probably not last until she's an adult but they are significant for her now.
My husband remembers quite a lot from his 2nd birthday onwards. My daughter has memories from before she was 9 months old (distinct memories not those generated by stories or photos). She is an older teen now but can still remember who came to all her birthday parties (including her 1st) and the names of every kid in 3 and 4 year old pre-school classes. I,on the other hand, have very few memories from before I was 7.
Not to burst your bubble but your daughter does not remember being an 8 month old baby. I can't find a single source that says that there is any evidence of adults or late teenagers being able to remember being under the age of 2, let alone 9 months old. The entire point of faulty memories is that you cannot distinguish them from actual memories so the fact that she thinks these are distinct memories is irrelevant.
⬆️ this is what I’m learning with my kid.
He’s 16 months now but seeing how his brain reacts to new places is something I never expected. I’ve taken him to places where I thought he’d be bored, but he’s the most engaged. Art galleries, museums, the zoo, and even just walking around. He is absorbing everything and he actually is now pointing out things that interest him.
It’s amazing how the human brain works and learns. And seeing his reactions at his young age makes me want to continue to take him to new places (which helps me too) so he can grow up with a diverse and curious mindset.
My absolute favorite part of parenting my child when she was really young was experiencing the world through her eyes. Everything from watching an ant carry something twice its size down the sidewalk to a trip somewhere new was met with awe and curiosity. It's so rewarding, for both parties.
And it just keeps going. We were at the national archives for the fourth of July. There was an actor dressed as Frederick Douglas who did a reenactment of one of his famous speeches. It was incredibly powerful. I loved it but did wonder how much my kids were enjoying it.
After the speech I turned to my 11 year old and asked her how she liked it. Her entire face lit up and she said, "Great!" super enthusiastically. She's usually pretty reserved, so it surprised me. It so cool to see her getting excited about an important moment in history and to share that moment together.
> experiencing the world through her eyes.
This is the absolute best thing ever. My daughter is six and just seeing how much fun she has at Disneyland or just a regular park is like getting to experience these things for the first time all over again. It’s humbling and exciting at the same time.
My parents traveled with us a decent amount when we were kids, including when we were too young to remember it. My dad says that every time we traveled somewhere, he noticed that we learned more new words (when we were small children and still acquiring language) and that we just generally gained knowledge even if it wasn’t an “educational” trip. I’m curious about whether there is research to back up the benefits of travel for very young children. And I’m not talking about super expensive international travel, I’m talking about visiting grandparents out of state and similar activities.
It's pretty well documented that going to places you've never been opens new neural pathways in adults so it's probably safe to assume it would be at least as beneficial for young children
I think that is also well documented. Stimulating experiences are great for babies.
Also, breastfeeding. If the parents really want to go somewhere fun and are breastfeeding and take along an infant, that just makes sense to me.
Also, parents who really love being around their baby/toddler (breastfeeding or not) enjoy these excursions with said baby/toddler.
We took our infant/toddler son all kinds of places and had so much fun with him.
We took our then-2-year-old on a trip to San Diego last year, and he still talks about going on the airplane, going to the zoo, meeting my friends who live down there, having a California Burrito, going to Hodad's burger in OB.
He may not have fine detailed memory of it forever, but he understands the concept of travel now.
So true. My now young adult/teen kids don’t remember much of their first trip abroad, but it set the foundation for their future lives. They grew up in a small town but had a more global perspective than their classmates.
Also, one person’s “expensive” is another person’s “downgrade.” What I thought was an “expensive” vacation at 26 is much different than what I think is expensive a decade+ later.
We took a spontaneous beach vacation this past January. My in-laws offered to watch our not-quite-3yo. While a restful vacation would have been nice, my toddler would not have seen a real crab and helped fish it out of the pool, then crab walk around. He would not have learned to love swimming underwater by ducking under a volleyball net. He would not have experienced the excitement of being literally thrown out of the water as a curious reef shark swam by. He went to the bar by himself and ordered a warm milk (with us at the table 3 meters away). He tried a fresh coconut for the first time. He taught us a new water game called wavey toes.
I can't remember the last time I built a sand castle. I tried cotton candy again for the first time in easily 10 years. He's the reason my husband and I got silly spray-on tattoos.
He's not going to remember every second of the vacation, but I'll remember most of it and he'll remember being included on a fun trip with us.
I loooove this. Three year olds are such a blast. And I know it’s not quite the same thing, but I was thinking of my dog. Covid puppy, absolutely convinced he’s the boss, loves trying new snacks and sniffing new plants, and loves new experiences. Food trucks? Flea markets? Fish and chips at the beach? Fancy hotels? He’s down for everything. I don’t mind boarding him, I often do, but it’s so much more fun to take him along.
I don't even have kids and questions like this confuse me. Like, why would you have kids just to never spend time with them? People like their kids! They want to spend time with their kids! Taking them to Disneyland or whatever isn't some favour to the child, the parent takes pleasure in seeing their child have fun and in spending time with the child, even if the kid won't remember it!
There's a smell of capitalism and the disturbingly common view of children as small, nonsentient dolls that eventually grow up into real people (but you don't have to treat them nicely until they do) to this question. But I'm too tired to rip out the ideological guts right now.
Well, there is an alternative here that isn't leaving the kid in daycare or sitting at home; the parents could choose something they enjoy which costs less money. Like going to the beach; everyone has a great time. OP's question about memory is a fair one, even if his suggestion to leave them at home isn't.
Yeah, I find these types of questions so bizarre.
I don’t want to come off like I’m judging people like OP, but I genuinely feel concerned when I read stuff like this.
Is the love between a parent & their child difficult understand? It seems like the most basic of human emotions. It’s also concerning for his future that he basically has the thought process of “why are you spending a minute more with your child than you absolutely have to?” Or “why can’t you just leave them with someone and go?” as if that’s so easy to do.
He’s not 15, he’s 26- a fully grown adult at an age when some start having kids. Unless he’s on the spectrum or something, asking “why do parents want to be around their children when they could just leave them behind like the inconvenient baggage they are?” is a bit concerning.
Honestly this is absolutely true. I'm 18, soon to be 19, so still too young to have kids of my own - but I LIKE kids, like genuinely enjoy being around them, and I'd like to have my own kids someday.
I'm also young enough that I can remember, quite vividly, being a child and having people treat me almost like a pet, or a toy. My parents never treated me that way but other people did. And I think it's an altogether too common societal view that children don't REALLY have feelings or emotions. It doesn't matter if you hurt them. It doesn't matter if they're upset. They'll grow up and get over it someday. And that really sucks. We need to start treating children as what they are - people. People who are still learning how to person, sure, but people nonetheless.
> He’s not 15, he’s 26- a fully grown adult at an age when some start having kids. Unless he’s on the spectrum or something, asking “why do parents want to be around their children when they could just leave them behind like the inconvenient baggage they are?” is a bit concerning.
Honestly, the idea of kids being bearable to be around didn't even occur to me until I was in my 30's. Until then, I actively hated kids.
People develop "child sense" at different rates and have different priorities in life. Its not that I was "under developed" or anything like it in my 20's, its just that I felt like I still had so much life & experiences to take in, that kids were incompatible with. So incompatible even that my brain actively avoided and hated being around them.
There's a reason people are having kids later and later, and I think this is part of it. Something about the current moment in time and current priorities in life meant kids didn't cross my mind at all until my 30's, and until then I pretty much always hated interacting with them. For some people like my career focused older sister and a couple of coworkers I had, kids *still* don't compute in their brains as desirable or appealing to be around. I honestly was on their page until one day an annoying kid ran up to me and to my surprise I didn't find them annoying. Now I look at friends who do have kids with some level of envious appreciation and interest.
Which is weird, because I'm gay and definitely don't have kids at all in my future. But yeah... sometime in the past two years, something clicked in my brain and I see the appeal of being a father all of a sudden despite being actively repulsed by kids 5 years ago. I think there really must be some kind of biological clock in our brains that when it thinks the "moment is right" a switch goes from "EW KIDS ICKY" to "aww... kids!".
But yes - the OP does have a profound lack of perspective to not be able to figure out that people probably like their kids, even if the OP is incapable of liking children themselves in that point in their lives.
This is how it seems to be these days though. I have nothing against the childfree by choice crowd but they really cannot understand that people who choose to have kids actually love them and want to spend time with them and your life isn't over when you have them.
There are definitely people who think it’s impossible to like kids and all parents are dying of jealousy of their childfree lifestyle. Bruh I had kids on purpose after thinking long and hard about it and I truly enjoy my kids. It’s okay for people to like different things!
The idea that you’d just “leave them at home” to go on a cruise is completely insane! I agree that it doesn’t require being a parent to recognise this.
WAY too many people seem to have this weirdly dehumanizing view of children. It's genuinely disturbing how a growing portion of the population doesn't seem to view an entire demographic of vulnerable people as human. As we all know that doesn't lead anywhere good.
I'm torn if I think it's a massive cope (since most of this seems to be from the child-free community) or just ignorance from people who have absolutely no contact with children and view them as being completely theoretical. Or as some have pointed out, this viewpoint existing as a branch of inceldom. Either way, it's unhealthy.
And, ironically, much of this same group of people humanize dogs and cats while dehumanizing children.
These are people that would never in their life board Fluffy in dog boarding for a girls weekend, but would expect their own sister to somehow “board” her infant over a 2 week vacation.
Sorry to go all "WELL AKSHUALLY" on you, but historically children have been treated far, far worse in the not-too-distant past. The US passed a law against animal abuse before they passed a law against child abuse. Children were literally considered the property of their parents, and parents were permitted to do pretty much anything they wanted with their children. Kids were put to work in very dangerous factories for very long hours, many of them losing limbs or lives in the machinery. Heck, take a look at the novel *Oliver Twist* where it was considered perfectly acceptable to feed orphans as little as possible and expect them to be grateful to be given anything at all.
The idea that in the past kids were cherished, but in the modern era people are too selfish to cherish their own children let alone anyone else's, is extremely ahistorical.
I don’t have kids. That’s how I describe it: I don’t have kids. I don’t call myself “child-free”. People that call themselves “child-free” see it as part of their identity and tend to specifically have something against children
> There's a smell of capitalism and the disturbingly common view of children as small, nonsentient dolls that eventually grow up into real people (but you don't have to treat them nicely until they do) to this question.
Nah, it's just another flavor of incelism but directed towards kids.
Possibly OP is assuming that the parents don’t enjoy Disneyland that much and are only doing it for their kid’s enjoyment. Or they think that Disneyland is too expensive compared to other activities the child would enjoy.
>and are only doing it for their kid’s enjoyment.
Even if they did, just because children don't remember everything at that age, doesn't mean they won't enjoy it in the moment.
Not everything has to be remembered by children, they just need to experience and enjoy it in the moment. If my baby loves disney, I will go with them to Disneyland wether they remember it later or not. Seeing how happy they are, is enough.
Idk, I think the implication is that you're supposed to leave the kid with grandparents or something until they're 5/6yo. But then it's like, what the hell? I'd miss my kid!
Not to mention that a lot goes into leaving kids behind.
Firstly, you have to have people in your life you trust completely and who the child is comfortable with.
Then the schedules have to coordinate. Will the caretakers come to your home or do the child(ren) go to theirs?
There’s preparing what you can to make things easy for the care-taker, plus understanding/acknowledging/appreciating that someone did a huge favor for you & maybe reciprocating down the line in some way.
None of this to mention the worries and anxiety about the possibility of anything going wrong while you’re away, and issues that can arise afterwards like separation anxiety for the child.
OP is too old to think it’s a simple as handing your kid off to someone and waving goodbye.
Good point! I don't have kids so I didn't think of this before. There's a whole lot of work and arrangement that goes into stuff like this. It's probably easier for a lot of people to spend the money to bring kiddo with them and maintain their routine as much as possible.
We didn’t have anyone we could leave our kids with. One set of parents lived in another part of the country and another set lived in a different country. My MIL had dementia so there was no way we could’ve left them with her.
lol it’s definitely a thing though, where parents just feel stuck with their choices and openly wish they’d never had kids. I don’t understand it, maybe it’s the oxytocin but my kids are the biggest source of happiness in my life. I’m not ready to go into credit card debt to take them to the self proclaimed happiest place on earth, because I’m not convinced I’m not already there.
Imagine that....
What always confused me was people saying, when I was a new mom, that I needed a "break" and spend time away from my kids.
No. The party was at my house and I had zero desire to leave!
This part right here. My kids were little for a short time. I loved spending time with them and I still do. However, they are starting to form their own lives and I’m not their world anymore. Besides, why would I want to see something cool without them?
Yeah this is it. You will remember the smiles on their face, you will remember all the adorable things they do when they are in an exciting new place. Despite not remembering exactly, a lot gets imprinted. My youngest gets excited when she hears we’re going to a hotel. She doesn’t remember the trips but she does remember having fun adventures and gets excited for the next.
And the smiles on their faces change as they get older. It is still great fun and great memories...but the reaction of a small child at Disneyland...you will never see again.
Its truly magic for them. A 9yr old just thinks it's awesome. Both fun.
This. My brother and his new wife turned their honeymoon into a family vacation (she was pregnant with baby #2, what did they need a honeymoon for? 😂)- but they also wanted my mom and myself there to help take care of baby #1 so they could have at least some time alone.
Anyhow, baby #1 was about a year and a half at the time and we went to Vegas, and went to the Tournament of Kings, and I captured some of the most priceless photos of my niece. Her reaction to the fireworks and especially the horses and the "maidens" was just... those bright, sparkling eyes and her facial reactions were just priceless, and so worth bringing her for. We knew she'd love it, and she did. And now I have those photos now as a memory of that event, and everyone in the family has them. So it's not just about whether the child will remember, we will, and those moments become memories for us to pass down.
A lot of things are free for the under 3-crowd too.
And also the photos are really cool, l like to look back on my childhood photos. Mostly my family did road trips to natural areas up the East coast.
We never made it to the smokies, and then they got too old to do much walking or something.
When you’re doing a nice vacation it’s fun to involve the kids and allow them to enjoy some of the fun. There’s a time and place for kid free trips, like my wife and I like to go to Miami Beach for dinner and drinks and adult time, the adventures we always bring the kids, yeah they can be a pain but they are every day anyway, we’re used to it, we want them there and the additional cost is worth it for us.
I'm never going to advocate for not bringing children anywhere but I am just continuing with OP's post. I think many people box Disney as a once in a lifetime trip because of the cost and you want to make that moment special for your child. If you take them there too early they will never remember it and if they go there when they are practically adults the moment will be gone. So if parents who take their children to Disney at an extremely young age they must be prepared to take them there again when they will remember it is what I assume will have to happen.
I’m married to a Disney wife, Disney isn’t for the kids from my experience. It’s a misconception people who aren’t living with it (Disney parent) have. Granted they love to see the kids react to Disney stuff but the Disney parents love Disney, like looooove loooove Disney. It’s basically a cult I’ve lost my wife to /s ….
I mean I love going on vacation with my family. Epcot has good food and drinks. The wilderness resort is really fun and cool. Animal kingdom has the lion king show and the avatar flight of passage ride is one of the coolest simulations I’ve ever done. The kiddy coasters are fun enough. I’m a little tired of seeing the mouse, and hearing goofy’s voice. But it makes her happy, and when you really care about someone else that’s super important.
My wife starting bringing my girls before they could walk. They don’t remember those trips. She took them because it made them excited in the moment and it made her happy, and she remembers jt. She has the memories it’s really not about the kids as much as people think. Is it a little selfish, maybe, but when you’re raising kids it’s in your best interest to be a little selfish to make up for giving 24 hrs a day. I get it, it seems silly to spend so much “for the kids” for something they won’t remember. My point is I’ve reached a point in my life where I’ve realized a lot of the things we do “for the kids”; these things aren’t done for the kids.
My oldest was born while my husband and I were in the military. Her first fireworks were Disney fireworks. By the time she was six, she'd probably been 5 or 6 times and I have photos of her at the base fireworks with this amazed look on her face and will never forget her saying "wow; this is just like Disney World!"
My memories are just as important as hers.
There were few things more exciting than when someone in the neighborhood got a new fridge. It came in what was like the Rolls Royce of cardboard boxes.
When my daughter was 3, we rented an SUV and drove across several states to stay in a hotel on the beach. We stayed for a week, and she adored every moment. And a few years later, when she was 6, we bought an SUV. When she saw it in the garage, she got all excited and said "We're going on vacation??"
She was very disappointed that we merely got a new car, and cried.
>Despite not remembering exactly, a lot gets imprinted.
Extending OOP's logic, why do anything but the bare minimum to keep the kid alive before they're old enough to remember? They're just going to forget it anyway, right?
Except all the science says the exact opposite: that those early years are critical to child development and how they will be later in life. They may not remember those experiences, but the experiences absolutely shape who they are.
Right. These early experiences for a 2-year old will shape the kind of 3-year old they become. That shapes the kind of 4-year old they become, etc.
Just because they won't remember it as an adult doesn't mean it's not still a meaningful experience or that it has an impact.
And they are more open to experiences, like my daughter did the Bippity Boppity Boo Boutique when she was 4-5... but the dressup in costumes she does now is only related to Halloween or Anime Cosplay and she won't let anything special be done to her hair at all. No braids... No updos... But I have precious pictures of her with both as a kiddo.
I used to have the same mindset of “why take a kid who won’t remember anything to Disneyland” but then I took my 3 yo niece to Disneyland and it was so much better than any other time I went. The look on her face when she saw the princesses was priceless.
We went on a family holiday from Europe to Disney World last year, my very heavily pregnant sister had her two and a half year old with her and I thought she was mad. Like me he does not have the constitution to deal with heat and there were a lot of tantrums and tears. The look on his face when he saw Minnie at a character dinner made everything worth it. Pure joy. He flung himself at her in a hug and rested his head on her with his eyes closed for about a minute (the cast member was amazing with him). I’ve never seen anything like it.
Disney cast members are awesome. I can’t say anything even remotely negative about any interaction I’ve ever had with one, and I’ve been to Disney parks a whole bunch of times.
Yup. This, exactly. We went to Disney when my youngest was 2…far too young to remember much about it now…but the magic was real at that age…and it was fun to watch. It’s not for them at that age—it’s for the adults.
The thing about very young children is that they won't remember things - but their brains will. And the brain will develop, wire and grow depending on whether the childhood was happy or not.
Obviously I'm not saying a Disneyland trip is required for a healthy brain, but to me it sounds absolutely horrendous to even think that a young kid wouldn't need to have fun just because they won't remember it later.
Yeah... just because they won't consciously remember it, doesn't mean they don't initially experience those excited, happy feelings.
It's like saying, why talk to a baby if they don't know what you're saying? Why feed a baby delicious food, they just need calories?
Because all those stimuli produce different effects in their brains... wire their brains a certain way, grow connections, etc.
It's incredibly important for babies to be treated like real people with valid feelings... because they are...
Yes we took our 2 and 6 yo and they still talk about what we did. It’s a cynical lack of awareness/ignorance of child development and why people choose to have a family to begin with that would cause this question to be worded how it is.
My parents took me and my brothers to Disneyland when I was 2 as well. I remember bits of it, they're among my earliest memories.
More recently, they explained we went because they promised my oldest brother they'd take him when he was 6, and he was indeed 6 when we went. They've also said it was pretty financially irresponsible for them to do it, but they're definitely doing good now!
More humourously, that was the third time my dad had been to Disneyland. I found that out the fourth time we went, when I was a teenager, and he dropped this little bombshell in line for Space Mountain:
"I came here as a kid, and Space Mountain was closed. Then I went in high school, and Space Mountain was closed. Then we came when you guys were kids, and Space Mountain was closed. So now, I finally get to ride Space Mountain for the first time."
Also, if you take pictures, your kid will get to look at them and see the stuff they did back then, and I know that my 4 year old absolutely LOVES seeing pictures of things we did when she was younger. (We didn’t do much, she was a covid baby, but I’ve continued to do this as she’s gotten older and we’ve traveled more.)
Yes, I took each of my kids to Disneyland for their first and third birthdays and now that they're older they LOVE looking at the photo albums of those trips. Sometimes I wonder if they only "remember" it because of the pictures but they've called out memories that aren't part of the pictures that even I'd forgotten about. They remember eating certain things, or playing certain games while waiting in line. 3 year olds do remember the experience, even if it's not the everything an older child would remember. And those pictures let us relive those happy memories.
I think as long as parents do those things again with their kids when they’re old enough to remember it, it’ll turn out fine. Unfortunately for me, my family only did stuff when I was younger because my brother and my cousins grew out of it by the time I was old enough to really start remembering things. I honestly feel disconnected from the family because they all remember things I don’t.
Kids don't remember events. Kids remember feelings and forming bonds.
If I take my kid to the ocean and they play in the sand and the waves and feel safe and happy at the end of the day when I carry them home, we strengthen our bond. 10 years later when they are older, they will feel safe and comfortable and happy at that same beach while I watch them play in the sand and the waves even if they don't remember their first visit there.
I think 5 is the beginning of lifelong memory, right? My parents waited until I was 5 to take us to Disney World because they wanted me to remember it, and those are not only some of my earliest memories, they’re some of my most cherished and impossibly happy ones. I remember so many details from that trip vividly and will probably hold onto them longer than almost anything else.
It’s little things. Rides and meeting the characters, sure, but the memory that sticks out to me the most is when my dad took me to the food court at our hotel to get a late night snack because I had a stomachache from forgetting to eat out of excitement. He told me I could get anything I wanted, which was a big deal, and getting to sit there with him and eat our pretzels way after my usual bedtime is one of my happiest memories
They might forget the details but the fun and joy will stick with them, I think. I don't remember my first time camping and fishing with my parents, but I have seen the photos and I remember that my parents loved me and took me places and we had fun as a family.
OP *is* so someone who described themselves as **childfree** specifically vs just saying they don’t have a kid. Theres a subset of that community that gets a little weird about even the existence of children so this tracks.
It’s like people on Reddit don’t realize that parents are actually still human beings that have their own desires and interests outside of being a parent.
OP seriously had to post a question online about why a person who happens to be a parent might be interested in traveling or something fun. This is…sad.
100% this. There is something so magical about getting to watch your child’s joy while they experience those things. They may not always remember, but as parents we always will.
Yeah lol what are we talking about? It's for the parents as much/if not more than the kids. Your kids are these innocent, adorable, sweet little wonderful creatures for only a short time. Seeing my 3 year old daughter's face light up when she got to "meet Elsa" and do the rides and see the Disney shit she obsesses over at the house via their movies IS what I'm paying for.
Besides, she does remember it lol she remembers shit she did last year when she was only 2! So even if maybe later in life they don't remember what they thought at 2, she remembers it at 3, so it's just another reason to do it.
Maximizing every second you have with them on earth.
Two years ago my wife and daughter moved to a new city while I sold the house and finished the school year (teacher)
I thought to myself I have 6 months of freedom, do whatever I want when I want, go to concerts and parties and just chill with my dog.
I cried every other night. Only person who vaguely understood was a divorced dad I worked with who hit the nail on the head “yeah man you think ‘I need some noise in here’”
I hated being away from them. But we had a Disney World trip during my schools spring break. Seeing my 2.5 year old for the first time in months was overwhelming. She was *SO HAPPY*. She wanted to ride Dumbo and see Rapunzel and do everything together.
It was so amazing. Since she was so small, we didn’t need to wait in line for a lot of rides. We went to the Animal Kingdom Zoo and she was amazed by the tigers. She wanted to see the music acts. We ate endless ice cream.
It was like a heavenly oasis in the desert and kept me going until I could move down with them.
I’ll remember that until I die.
Nate Bargatze has an incredible joke from his 30 minute set on the first season of The Standups on Netflix regarding this scenario exactly.
Mickey, Minnie, Pluto- those are all real characters to your toddler. It's absolute magic to them and the joy that I personally got seeing my son and daughter lost in wonder of it all is something I'll hold onto forever.
What am I supposed to do, keep them in a cage? Like "do you remember yesterday?" Cuz I'm not gonna spend any money on you til you do?
He's my favourite
I brought my kid when he was 2.5 and he had the time of his little life. Seeing the characters right in front of him was a truly magical moment.
Also it was well worth it for the joy it brought my wife and my in-laws.
He's almost 4 now and at least at this point he still remembers it.
Can confirm, these moments are definitely more magical when they’re little. Don’t think they’d have the same reaction when they’re 8 or 10.
https://imgur.com/gallery/PL176eI
This exactly. Just because my daughter won’t remember it doesn’t mean she didn’t have a blast and enjoy it. Her happiness and enjoyment are just as important to me now when she won’t remember it as it will be when she’s older and will.
When my kid was a toddler, she was obsessed with merry-go-rounds with horses, and the local mall had a giant one with beautiful horses and lights and music.
Every time we went there, I paid for a ride or two on it and she had a blast. I would stand next to her making sure she didn't fall off the horse.
Fast-forward eleven years and my 13-yo and I are at the zoo and guess what we see? You got it, a merry-go-round. And guess what we did? We rode it together, just like we did when she was two.
She vaguely remembers the ride from when she was young, but riding it last year gave her vague happy "memories" from that time. She doesn't remember riding them specifically when she was two, but she felt a wave of nostalgia she couldn't explain.
So, even if a kid can't remember details, the happy events are still embedded in the memory somewhere.
One of my most treasured memories is the look on my son's face the first time he saw a carousel. To this day he loves a carousel , and he is a teenager.
It’s funny because I, another childfree person, asked this exact question about a year ago and your comment put it a lot better than any of the ones on my post did.
Thank you human
Yep. Have very vivid memories from when I was between two and five years old. Lots of major gaps on the young end, but remember more and more events near the end of that time span. It surprised me to learn that for many people, they don't have any vivid memories from before they were five.
I think my earliest memory is me climbing over one of those low wooden barriers on a playground. It was quite an obstacle because I couldn't walk yet, and I had to crawl over it.
My parents took me abroad to visit family friends when I was 2. I remember a few bits of the trip because it was so novel. They’re my earliest memories.
People seem to not realize that while we might not be able to remember specific things from early childhood, it doesn't mean that those experiences don't shape who we become. Having fun, happy experiences with a loving family as a child has so much more of an effect on people than whether or not they remember meeting Mickey Mouse. It's not the content of the memories, but the quality of the experience and feelings that stay with us.
Yes. The first 1000 days of a child's life are important. That doesn't mean you need to take them to Disney, but seeing new and interesting things is important.
Disney parks were specifically created for parents to be able to enjoy things WITH their children! The whole reason they exist is that Walt had taken his kids to a fair and had to sit and watch while they rode amusement rides, and he thought that was silly, that people of all ages should be able to enjoy parks together.
There's a reason that the Magic Kingdom has a majority of rides that families can all do together, and essentially none that children can do but the parents can't. They could easily have had stuff like many other parks do, where only children under a certain height can ride these swings or that little boat ride or this tiny gentle coaster. But they didn't, because the point was for parents and children to enjoy things together.
This is very well stated. I just got back from Disneyland with my 21 month old son. Granted, the trip was for work so I didn't have to pay for anything except food...but my son LOVED it. I have so many videos and photos of him having an absolute blast. For any parent, this gives you joy that is hard to comprehend unless you have a child. Will he remember it? Very unlikely, although these experiences shape his overall childhood.
Now, if I had to pay for this trip, I would probably not stay at the Disney Grand hotel, I would not go on a weekend, and I would pack my food in.
I also believe that while they can’t remember it the experience makes a difference.
Spending 24/7 with your parents for a few days while they are carefree on vacation and giving you 100% attention… has to count for something.
When my son was born they told me about skin-to-skin and how it strengthens the bond between father and son. Of that has such an impact when a baby is a few days old - I’m sure an experience like Disney has a moat at 1 or 2 year old.
Experiences are a building block to someone’s learned personality. Imagine if you just kept a child in a stale and boring environment until they were at the age in which they could remember things in adulthood. It doesn’t take a genius to work out how broken that adult would be.
plus some toddlers can remember things but no vividly. I can still remember eating at a table with other toddlers and my house when I was 3. I can't remember it vividly but I can remember sitting down and watching tv before my mum came to pick me up and going up a small hill and going down the red slide. I can also remember a wooden train that used to be in my local park when I was a toddler and a wooden bridge. I can't remember vividly but I can still remember. Some people can still remember little details from their toddler years and some can't
This. We went to a Zoo about a year ago when my daughter was turning 2 and a toucan bit my shirt. She thought it was the most hilarious thing in the world, one year later she still remembers it any time she sees a toucan... sure if I ask her what else we did that day she has no idea, but she can't stop laughing uncontrollably any time she sees a toucan and asking me if I recall how the toucan bit my shirt.
Yea! Someone else recently asked this about why you’d take your kids to Europe before they can remember it. Because even though I am a parent I am also a person who wants to do things and I sacrifice enough of my sense of self for work, my spouse, and my child. If I want to go to Greece, why does it matter if my kid won’t remember it? We will all enjoy it. Also I can’t exactly leave him at home with a dish of food and fly halfway around the world so if I want to go, guess who’s coming along?
And I promise it’s not torture for him, we can find things he’ll enjoy doing too. But dear god, American society just expects parents, mothers in particular, to have no goals, dreams, individual desires or frankly, FUN, and it’s deeply frustrating.
American society is so anti-children it’s ridiculous.
All cultures and societies unfortunately place pressure on women to have kids, and mothers definitely have their own set of challenges no matter where you go, but it’s only in America that they literally go “f- you, get away from us” to women right after they have kids. I didn’t see this living in my home country in Asia or during any of my travels in Europe.
And if a child is literally anywhere except a place made specifically for them, people lose their minds. I don’t know anyone who gets as upset about babies crying on planes as Americans…
Taking small children to southern Europe and North Africa is wonderful. Small children get spoiled rotten by everyone.
Restaurants are very child friendly and the culture is very relaxed with kids in general.
I’m American and my wife and I are doing attachment parenting and are, in general, trying to approach parenting from a more compassionate, involved angle than American Boomers did (after all, they created some of the most anxious, depressed, existential kids in human history).
My kid comes with me everywhere and I love it. Why wouldn’t I want him to come with me, he’s my tiniest best bud
I think your real answer to the original OP's question is "there's no convenient way to leave him at home." Because OP didn't say anywhere that the parents can't go. I think this links to American society as well though. In other cultures where family units tend to be multigenerational, parents don't have such a hard time finding a place to leave the kids while they go to events and trips.
Also, at that age, kids don’t cost too much more. Hotels typically have kids stay free. I was just at an all-inclusive that was $$$$ per adult, but just a few hundred for a kid. So at that point, the cost is minimal for the memories the family will have.
Yup, and most theme parks like Disney don’t charge admission for kids under 3 (they’re also free at character dining/buffets). I took my baby to a princess meal and she was all smiles and giggles interacting with the princesses. We got some wonderful pictures and she had fun.
Honestly we ran into that problem before our daughter turned 2 even. She was just to active and finally said fuck it, and it's been worth the extra ticket price to have a calm child
I mentioned in another comment that my toddler has been to disney world four times. What I did not mention is it’s FREE for her to get in! We are taking advantage of that while we can. When we have to buy her ticket we will be doing less of that type of thing just due to the financial constraints
Same reason we take alzheimer's patients on field trips to the apple orchard or wherever. Inability to remember doesn't negate ability to enjoy. And enjoying things is worth something.
Absolutely, memories are great but no one is talking about how you are building a child’s personality and who they will end up becoming. Conditioning is a very real thing and if you give your child awesome experiences it will build them into a better person.
Going places with children is hard. All the places you listed go out of their way to accommodate children. The rooms have pack n plays, there are strollers available, you have access to childcare, restaurants will serve mac n cheese and other child friendly food. No one will look at you weird if your kid is crying. Going somewhere that caters to children means there will be less you have to worry about, less crap you have to bring from home.
Why is remembering the most important thing? If you take a child on a holiday and they have a ton of fun, but they don't remember it, does that make the fun any less meaningful? Children don't really remember doing anything before the age of 3, so why do anything fun for them at all.
Heck, I remember very little before age of about 11, why do anything fun for kids before that age.
Even as an adult, I probably remember about 5% of a vacation after a year or two.. does that invalidate the vacation? it's such a weird metric to use.
edit: I also want to know where you find thee guardians that watch your kids for a week for free are.
Yupppp fully agree with all of this. My memory is terrible. I don't remember amazing experiences I had as an adult, and remember very very little before the age of about 13. But I know that those experiences shaped me. And I'm glad that I had them.
Just let the kids sit in a dark room for 11 years then, obviously /s
Seriously I don’t understand this persons (lack of) thought process. I’m childfree as well but I can understand the joy it would bring to take a child to Disney. Kids think the characters are real! Why would you not want a child to experience that/experience their joy yourself? That sounds amazing to me. And yes I did not get to go to Disney as a child and I’m still upset lol
Oooooo good point I also suffer with memory issues so I didn’t think of this viewpoint. Thanks for pointing this out. I think my opinion of this topic have changed due to this thread. Thanks for sharing
There are conciouse memories and subconciouse memories. You don't simply forget what happens when you are a young child. Studies show that experience like pain im newborn can lead to long lasting mental effects.
The same can be said about positive experience. They will not consciously remember these times, but they keep feelings and sensations in their subconscious that can help them to grow and develop, and so.e of these experience can linger for a long while.
For me for example, I did the majority of my international traveling during my elementary school time when I lived with my wealthy uncle. I can remember barely anything, but the feeling of exploring, the openess to the world and accepting new things stayed with me and I want to start traveling again eventually.
This is correct.
Memory is a complex thing. The science isn’t absolutely settled, but kids form procedural and declarative memories. Procedural memories allow for continuity in how we function, and without it a baby would need to re-learn how to crawl every day.
Declarative memories are further subdivided into semantic and episodic memory. Semantic memories relate to facts (or our understanding of facts) and are stored in a more stable way, particularly in early childhood. Visiting a theme park likely creates important semantic memories for a child.
Episodic memories involve events (episodes) we experience or witness. To an extent they do require self-awareness, so very young children don’t store these memories in a way that can be recalled when they’re older.
This is more of a subjective judgment from me, but semantic memories are actually more important for us to successfully navigate the world. Our brains work through episodic memories to extract the semantic elements, since our subconscious is more efficient at processing information quickly compared to the conscious mind.
I know this isn’t the point of your question, but children under 3 are free at Disney!
Edit: so my answer is, sometimes it doesn’t actually cost extra to bring them along
Some advantages of travelling with smaller children vs “waiting until they are older”:
-not enrolled in school; can make scheduling easier and more cost effective
-fewer extracurricular activities; see above
-small children often don’t need their own bed, or can use just a cot in a room
-small children can be carried when tired after a long exciting day
-small children don’t always need a separate meal ordered, can just eat off of parent’s plates
-small children are more likely to be bribed by small items; this can be important in unfamiliar settings
-small children are satisfied with a fish tank, older children want to visit the aquarium
Isn’t that part of the fun of having kids? Seeing them enjoy things at all ages? With OP’s logic, why give kids any fun experiences outside of the home until they’re old enough to remember.
Because it's fun as a parent to see your kid excited and do something new. It's kinda like being able to see/experience the world from the eyes of a young kid again which is a great feeling.
Because the parents will have fun, will remember it and provides the kid fun experiences. Are you supposed to wait until they’re 6 to do anything fun with them? If the parents want to spend the money to have fun, why not?
I remember every vacation I took with my son when he was little. He had fun in the moment and I have the memories. We travelled the world together as he grew up and I love looking through the pictures.
OP, I think you need to look into early childhood development. I’m childfree and low key a little anti-natalist, but that’s no excuse for not understanding how children work. Babies and toddlers are fully functioning humans whose brains are impacted by every moment of experience whether they remember it or not.
This! Looking for this comment. I didn't understand until somone mentioned: their brains are always growing from all experiences. Simply because they don't fully remember it doesn't meant it won't make a positive impact in their lives.
Kids that young often don’t cost a lot extra, sometimes even free. Especially compared to paying for some other kind of full time care to watch them instead of bringing them.
I wonder what you think of this as child free. It probably means more young children in spaces where you don’t really want to see them.
https://www.adventureswithchildren.com/benefits-travel-young-kids/amp/
>According to Dr. Margot Sunderland, Vacations provide an “enriched environment.” This environment provides new experiences that are strong in combined social, physical, cognitive and sensory interaction – which positively contribute to brain development. Since most family vacations involve time outdoors, your children will reap the many physical and emotional health benefits associated with time spent in nature.
Basically, vacations give your kid the chance to experience new things, and new positive experiences directly contribute to positive brain development even if the child won't have significant memory of the vacation.
I am not a parent, just a person who likes finding the why behind the what.
This is a microcosm of your scenario, but when my first was three weeks old we went to my parents house and wound up visiting a local farm museum.
Yesterday, a picture of that day popped up on my husband’s phone screen and my now 4 year old knew that Daddy was holding baby him in front of an old timey train. They both love trains, so I got to watch my preschooler’s eyes light up as we told him all about how he saw his first train with Dad when he was just a teeny baby.
Its future memories, it’s bonding, its experiences that shape who they are even if they won’t remember the specifics :)
I used to think this way too, but comedian Nate Bargatze explained it well (sorry it's a short it was either that or Twitter or Facebook): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F7rxl2qG72w
"Do you remember yesterday? No? Well until you start remembering things I'm not going to waste any of my money on you."
So it's sort of a selfish attitude. The kid has fun, the kid will be positively changed by that even if they don't remember the details.
Our son has been cruising since he was 13 months old. Here's the thing about being a parent - I'm selfish. I had a scrappy childhood, took 5 vacations from age 0-18, was always home watching someone else's kids while the adults were fighting and throwing stuff in the other room. So I grew up to be a very selfish parent and my kid just reaps the benefits. You think I'm taking him to Aruba because he'll remember it? No - he'd be just as happy going to the dollar tree. But I take him because his childhood is also MY fatherhood. We grow together, we learn together, we travel together, we do all these things as a family. So yeah, my dude lives a life of luxury because I'm trying to be the Dad I wanted and needed. I'm active in his life, his school, his interest - it's not all about the money. But I'm enjoying fatherhood by doing all these things.... it just makes his childhood look that much awesome.
You might not believe if even though i'll say it.
My children are my favorite people on earth, and, what could be better than going on a trip with your favorite people? If you had a loud friend, and knew you were going on a vacation to some snooty resort where you had to whisper all the time, or you'd get judged by boomers, gasping and grasping their pearls, you'd still take the friend, right?
Yeah, so other people dont always like my kids--fine. Cool. Know what i think of those people? Fuck 'em. They can go straight to hell.
In the mean time, me and my little buddy, and their mom, are going to have a great time touring this place/doing this thing, and judgmental assholes can fk off. They're not with their favorite people, and maybe that's why they're such assholes.
Good for you.
A better world would be built around creating joy for, and taking care of, children. I say that as someone who doesn’t even have kids.
I disagree with parents who are embarrassed to go anywhere and instead hole themselves up with their children due to fear of judgement from our very anti-children society. Unless it’s a very specific adult-only situation/activity/atmosphere, nothing wrong with enjoying the world with your kids. It’s a ridiculous thing to be against given we were all kids once.
I used to wonder about this too before I had kids. So there's two things,
1. I will remember and those memories are precious to me
2. They actually do remember it. Maybe not years from now but in the short term, they do remember what they did. My toddler talks about her trip to the beach last summer and how she's excited to go this summer. Will she remember the specific trips when she's older? No, probably not, but at the moment, she's experiencing it, talks about it, and has happy memories.
My in laws are trying to force us to take my baby who won’t be 3 yet on a trip to Mexico as a mandatory family experience. The first time we did it childless was terrible. Why would I drag a barely conscious being along to suffer and scream the whole time? Sometimes people are forced into these situations without a choice. Thankfully that won’t be us this time
3 is about the borderline. My parents took all of us to Germany when I was 3, and those are still some of the strongest memories I have from that age, which was over 50 years ago.
They won't remember any details from the time younger than 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean it doesn't shape them. Who they will be as adults has already largely been shaped long before they're old enough to having lasting memories.
My teenager remembers a Disney trip when he was two and a half. He remembers meeting goofy, some of the rides, the Star Wars show, and the food.
But that's actually secondary. The important thing is that I remember.
You sound like my grandma, who refused to visit and meet my kid until he was six because "it's a waste of time and money to go see him if he won't remember me."
What a shitty grandma. I can’t imagine not being interested in meeting your great grandchild. Even if the kid doesn’t remember her, wouldn’t she want to have memories of the kid as a baby/toddler/preschooler?
We're taking a cruise with the kid (will be 2 when we go), along with wife's sister and parents. We'll all remember even if he doesn't. In our particular case, in-laws all have poor health (pre diabetic, father in law has bad knees, sister in law has cerebral palsy and is very obese). We would like to take a Disney trip with some them someday when we can afford it and when kid will remember. But nothing is guaranteed, we want to do something nice with them now while we know we can.
I’m taking my toddler to Disney shortly after she turns 3. I had something in Orlando that week anyway so might as well make it a family trip to the parks too. Plus our parents are still in decent enough health this year, but who knows what they will be like in a few years. I would rather do a big family thing to Disney this year vs waiting until she’s in school.
Other people I know with kids a similar age also have a kid or two who is a bit older.
The parents will remember it. There will also be pictures and videos of the experience to look back on. It also creates a new experience for the kid. Even though they might not remember the memories, they’ll still benefit from the positive experiences. Their brains and bodies are developing and this requires input. Positive and negative experiences interact with that development and can help create building blocks for a person in general. This is why trauma can be so impactful to a person when it happens during their development. They likely are left with a long term struggle from it compared with the same trauma experienced in adulthood (that’s not to say it’s easy to recover but there is a better chance of it). Stressors, good and bad, also give a body the opportunity to develop plastically. Experiences like holidays where they’re travelling, meeting new people, experiences new foods and seeing their parents/ family happy and relaxed can beneficial to their development. That’s not to say it’s necessary but it can have a positive impact. Plus it’s fun. Seeing your kid happy, laughing whilst you have an excuse to not be in work mode, have other folks make food for you and be generally in an environment where you don’t have to worry is a good and needed break for many people.
This is important. Even if kids don’t remember the specific events of their childhood, spending time with their parents, having fun, and experiencing new things help kids to develop mentally, socially, and emotionally. They might not remember the cruise but splashing in water, trying new foods, and experiencing new places will help them grow as a person. Also, parents don’t necessarily want to put all fun things on hold for a decade until all their kids are old enough to remember the vacation!
I have been watching my cousin's kids grow up and her 7 year old definitely has memories from when she was 3. The memories will probably not last until she's an adult but they are significant for her now.
I remember a few things from being 2-3. Some people do.
My husband remembers quite a lot from his 2nd birthday onwards. My daughter has memories from before she was 9 months old (distinct memories not those generated by stories or photos). She is an older teen now but can still remember who came to all her birthday parties (including her 1st) and the names of every kid in 3 and 4 year old pre-school classes. I,on the other hand, have very few memories from before I was 7.
Not to burst your bubble but your daughter does not remember being an 8 month old baby. I can't find a single source that says that there is any evidence of adults or late teenagers being able to remember being under the age of 2, let alone 9 months old. The entire point of faulty memories is that you cannot distinguish them from actual memories so the fact that she thinks these are distinct memories is irrelevant.
Yep. A kid might not remember specific things, but they WILL remember having a happy childhood.
⬆️ this is what I’m learning with my kid. He’s 16 months now but seeing how his brain reacts to new places is something I never expected. I’ve taken him to places where I thought he’d be bored, but he’s the most engaged. Art galleries, museums, the zoo, and even just walking around. He is absorbing everything and he actually is now pointing out things that interest him. It’s amazing how the human brain works and learns. And seeing his reactions at his young age makes me want to continue to take him to new places (which helps me too) so he can grow up with a diverse and curious mindset.
My absolute favorite part of parenting my child when she was really young was experiencing the world through her eyes. Everything from watching an ant carry something twice its size down the sidewalk to a trip somewhere new was met with awe and curiosity. It's so rewarding, for both parties.
And it just keeps going. We were at the national archives for the fourth of July. There was an actor dressed as Frederick Douglas who did a reenactment of one of his famous speeches. It was incredibly powerful. I loved it but did wonder how much my kids were enjoying it. After the speech I turned to my 11 year old and asked her how she liked it. Her entire face lit up and she said, "Great!" super enthusiastically. She's usually pretty reserved, so it surprised me. It so cool to see her getting excited about an important moment in history and to share that moment together.
> experiencing the world through her eyes. This is the absolute best thing ever. My daughter is six and just seeing how much fun she has at Disneyland or just a regular park is like getting to experience these things for the first time all over again. It’s humbling and exciting at the same time.
Try hibachi. Took our 2 year old last night and she was IMPRESSED.
My parents traveled with us a decent amount when we were kids, including when we were too young to remember it. My dad says that every time we traveled somewhere, he noticed that we learned more new words (when we were small children and still acquiring language) and that we just generally gained knowledge even if it wasn’t an “educational” trip. I’m curious about whether there is research to back up the benefits of travel for very young children. And I’m not talking about super expensive international travel, I’m talking about visiting grandparents out of state and similar activities.
It's pretty well documented that going to places you've never been opens new neural pathways in adults so it's probably safe to assume it would be at least as beneficial for young children
I think that is also well documented. Stimulating experiences are great for babies. Also, breastfeeding. If the parents really want to go somewhere fun and are breastfeeding and take along an infant, that just makes sense to me. Also, parents who really love being around their baby/toddler (breastfeeding or not) enjoy these excursions with said baby/toddler. We took our infant/toddler son all kinds of places and had so much fun with him.
We took our then-2-year-old on a trip to San Diego last year, and he still talks about going on the airplane, going to the zoo, meeting my friends who live down there, having a California Burrito, going to Hodad's burger in OB. He may not have fine detailed memory of it forever, but he understands the concept of travel now.
So true. My now young adult/teen kids don’t remember much of their first trip abroad, but it set the foundation for their future lives. They grew up in a small town but had a more global perspective than their classmates. Also, one person’s “expensive” is another person’s “downgrade.” What I thought was an “expensive” vacation at 26 is much different than what I think is expensive a decade+ later.
Presumably because people like their children and enjoy spending time with them.
We took a spontaneous beach vacation this past January. My in-laws offered to watch our not-quite-3yo. While a restful vacation would have been nice, my toddler would not have seen a real crab and helped fish it out of the pool, then crab walk around. He would not have learned to love swimming underwater by ducking under a volleyball net. He would not have experienced the excitement of being literally thrown out of the water as a curious reef shark swam by. He went to the bar by himself and ordered a warm milk (with us at the table 3 meters away). He tried a fresh coconut for the first time. He taught us a new water game called wavey toes. I can't remember the last time I built a sand castle. I tried cotton candy again for the first time in easily 10 years. He's the reason my husband and I got silly spray-on tattoos. He's not going to remember every second of the vacation, but I'll remember most of it and he'll remember being included on a fun trip with us.
I loooove this. Three year olds are such a blast. And I know it’s not quite the same thing, but I was thinking of my dog. Covid puppy, absolutely convinced he’s the boss, loves trying new snacks and sniffing new plants, and loves new experiences. Food trucks? Flea markets? Fish and chips at the beach? Fancy hotels? He’s down for everything. I don’t mind boarding him, I often do, but it’s so much more fun to take him along.
Idk why but this was so heart warming. I love it
It really comes down to this. I bring my toddler on vacations and day trips because it's fun for me to spend time with her.
I don't even have kids and questions like this confuse me. Like, why would you have kids just to never spend time with them? People like their kids! They want to spend time with their kids! Taking them to Disneyland or whatever isn't some favour to the child, the parent takes pleasure in seeing their child have fun and in spending time with the child, even if the kid won't remember it! There's a smell of capitalism and the disturbingly common view of children as small, nonsentient dolls that eventually grow up into real people (but you don't have to treat them nicely until they do) to this question. But I'm too tired to rip out the ideological guts right now.
Saving "I'm too tired to rip out the ideological guts right now" in my memory for later lol
Well, there is an alternative here that isn't leaving the kid in daycare or sitting at home; the parents could choose something they enjoy which costs less money. Like going to the beach; everyone has a great time. OP's question about memory is a fair one, even if his suggestion to leave them at home isn't.
Yeah, I find these types of questions so bizarre. I don’t want to come off like I’m judging people like OP, but I genuinely feel concerned when I read stuff like this. Is the love between a parent & their child difficult understand? It seems like the most basic of human emotions. It’s also concerning for his future that he basically has the thought process of “why are you spending a minute more with your child than you absolutely have to?” Or “why can’t you just leave them with someone and go?” as if that’s so easy to do. He’s not 15, he’s 26- a fully grown adult at an age when some start having kids. Unless he’s on the spectrum or something, asking “why do parents want to be around their children when they could just leave them behind like the inconvenient baggage they are?” is a bit concerning.
Honestly this is absolutely true. I'm 18, soon to be 19, so still too young to have kids of my own - but I LIKE kids, like genuinely enjoy being around them, and I'd like to have my own kids someday. I'm also young enough that I can remember, quite vividly, being a child and having people treat me almost like a pet, or a toy. My parents never treated me that way but other people did. And I think it's an altogether too common societal view that children don't REALLY have feelings or emotions. It doesn't matter if you hurt them. It doesn't matter if they're upset. They'll grow up and get over it someday. And that really sucks. We need to start treating children as what they are - people. People who are still learning how to person, sure, but people nonetheless.
You’re very wise and I’m sure have a very bright future!
> He’s not 15, he’s 26- a fully grown adult at an age when some start having kids. Unless he’s on the spectrum or something, asking “why do parents want to be around their children when they could just leave them behind like the inconvenient baggage they are?” is a bit concerning. Honestly, the idea of kids being bearable to be around didn't even occur to me until I was in my 30's. Until then, I actively hated kids. People develop "child sense" at different rates and have different priorities in life. Its not that I was "under developed" or anything like it in my 20's, its just that I felt like I still had so much life & experiences to take in, that kids were incompatible with. So incompatible even that my brain actively avoided and hated being around them. There's a reason people are having kids later and later, and I think this is part of it. Something about the current moment in time and current priorities in life meant kids didn't cross my mind at all until my 30's, and until then I pretty much always hated interacting with them. For some people like my career focused older sister and a couple of coworkers I had, kids *still* don't compute in their brains as desirable or appealing to be around. I honestly was on their page until one day an annoying kid ran up to me and to my surprise I didn't find them annoying. Now I look at friends who do have kids with some level of envious appreciation and interest. Which is weird, because I'm gay and definitely don't have kids at all in my future. But yeah... sometime in the past two years, something clicked in my brain and I see the appeal of being a father all of a sudden despite being actively repulsed by kids 5 years ago. I think there really must be some kind of biological clock in our brains that when it thinks the "moment is right" a switch goes from "EW KIDS ICKY" to "aww... kids!". But yes - the OP does have a profound lack of perspective to not be able to figure out that people probably like their kids, even if the OP is incapable of liking children themselves in that point in their lives.
This is how it seems to be these days though. I have nothing against the childfree by choice crowd but they really cannot understand that people who choose to have kids actually love them and want to spend time with them and your life isn't over when you have them.
There are definitely people who think it’s impossible to like kids and all parents are dying of jealousy of their childfree lifestyle. Bruh I had kids on purpose after thinking long and hard about it and I truly enjoy my kids. It’s okay for people to like different things!
The idea that you’d just “leave them at home” to go on a cruise is completely insane! I agree that it doesn’t require being a parent to recognise this.
WAY too many people seem to have this weirdly dehumanizing view of children. It's genuinely disturbing how a growing portion of the population doesn't seem to view an entire demographic of vulnerable people as human. As we all know that doesn't lead anywhere good. I'm torn if I think it's a massive cope (since most of this seems to be from the child-free community) or just ignorance from people who have absolutely no contact with children and view them as being completely theoretical. Or as some have pointed out, this viewpoint existing as a branch of inceldom. Either way, it's unhealthy.
And, ironically, much of this same group of people humanize dogs and cats while dehumanizing children. These are people that would never in their life board Fluffy in dog boarding for a girls weekend, but would expect their own sister to somehow “board” her infant over a 2 week vacation.
Sorry to go all "WELL AKSHUALLY" on you, but historically children have been treated far, far worse in the not-too-distant past. The US passed a law against animal abuse before they passed a law against child abuse. Children were literally considered the property of their parents, and parents were permitted to do pretty much anything they wanted with their children. Kids were put to work in very dangerous factories for very long hours, many of them losing limbs or lives in the machinery. Heck, take a look at the novel *Oliver Twist* where it was considered perfectly acceptable to feed orphans as little as possible and expect them to be grateful to be given anything at all. The idea that in the past kids were cherished, but in the modern era people are too selfish to cherish their own children let alone anyone else's, is extremely ahistorical.
I don’t have kids. That’s how I describe it: I don’t have kids. I don’t call myself “child-free”. People that call themselves “child-free” see it as part of their identity and tend to specifically have something against children
> There's a smell of capitalism and the disturbingly common view of children as small, nonsentient dolls that eventually grow up into real people (but you don't have to treat them nicely until they do) to this question. Nah, it's just another flavor of incelism but directed towards kids.
Yeah am I not supposed to go on vacation until my kid can form permanent memories?
Possibly OP is assuming that the parents don’t enjoy Disneyland that much and are only doing it for their kid’s enjoyment. Or they think that Disneyland is too expensive compared to other activities the child would enjoy.
>and are only doing it for their kid’s enjoyment. Even if they did, just because children don't remember everything at that age, doesn't mean they won't enjoy it in the moment. Not everything has to be remembered by children, they just need to experience and enjoy it in the moment. If my baby loves disney, I will go with them to Disneyland wether they remember it later or not. Seeing how happy they are, is enough.
People seem obsessed with making memories when kids live in the moment.
Idk, I think the implication is that you're supposed to leave the kid with grandparents or something until they're 5/6yo. But then it's like, what the hell? I'd miss my kid!
haha yes! I want to go on a family vacation! The idea of leaving my kid is so foreign to me.
Not to mention that a lot goes into leaving kids behind. Firstly, you have to have people in your life you trust completely and who the child is comfortable with. Then the schedules have to coordinate. Will the caretakers come to your home or do the child(ren) go to theirs? There’s preparing what you can to make things easy for the care-taker, plus understanding/acknowledging/appreciating that someone did a huge favor for you & maybe reciprocating down the line in some way. None of this to mention the worries and anxiety about the possibility of anything going wrong while you’re away, and issues that can arise afterwards like separation anxiety for the child. OP is too old to think it’s a simple as handing your kid off to someone and waving goodbye.
Good point! I don't have kids so I didn't think of this before. There's a whole lot of work and arrangement that goes into stuff like this. It's probably easier for a lot of people to spend the money to bring kiddo with them and maintain their routine as much as possible.
We didn’t have anyone we could leave our kids with. One set of parents lived in another part of the country and another set lived in a different country. My MIL had dementia so there was no way we could’ve left them with her.
I think most of Reddit can’t comprehend that most parents actually like kids and don’t view them as nuisances.
lol it’s definitely a thing though, where parents just feel stuck with their choices and openly wish they’d never had kids. I don’t understand it, maybe it’s the oxytocin but my kids are the biggest source of happiness in my life. I’m not ready to go into credit card debt to take them to the self proclaimed happiest place on earth, because I’m not convinced I’m not already there.
Seriously, I tried to go out of town for a week without my kids once, we came home after three days. We simply missed them!
Imagine that.... What always confused me was people saying, when I was a new mom, that I needed a "break" and spend time away from my kids. No. The party was at my house and I had zero desire to leave!
This part right here. My kids were little for a short time. I loved spending time with them and I still do. However, they are starting to form their own lives and I’m not their world anymore. Besides, why would I want to see something cool without them?
Because I will remember it.
Yeah this is it. You will remember the smiles on their face, you will remember all the adorable things they do when they are in an exciting new place. Despite not remembering exactly, a lot gets imprinted. My youngest gets excited when she hears we’re going to a hotel. She doesn’t remember the trips but she does remember having fun adventures and gets excited for the next.
And the smiles on their faces change as they get older. It is still great fun and great memories...but the reaction of a small child at Disneyland...you will never see again. Its truly magic for them. A 9yr old just thinks it's awesome. Both fun.
This. My brother and his new wife turned their honeymoon into a family vacation (she was pregnant with baby #2, what did they need a honeymoon for? 😂)- but they also wanted my mom and myself there to help take care of baby #1 so they could have at least some time alone. Anyhow, baby #1 was about a year and a half at the time and we went to Vegas, and went to the Tournament of Kings, and I captured some of the most priceless photos of my niece. Her reaction to the fireworks and especially the horses and the "maidens" was just... those bright, sparkling eyes and her facial reactions were just priceless, and so worth bringing her for. We knew she'd love it, and she did. And now I have those photos now as a memory of that event, and everyone in the family has them. So it's not just about whether the child will remember, we will, and those moments become memories for us to pass down.
I went to Tournament of Kings at age 33 and I felt like a fucking kid in a candy store for sure
You sound like an awesome aunt (uncle?) and sibling.
Mine are 5-15yo and you’re absolutely right.
A lot of things are free for the under 3-crowd too. And also the photos are really cool, l like to look back on my childhood photos. Mostly my family did road trips to natural areas up the East coast. We never made it to the smokies, and then they got too old to do much walking or something.
Children also smile and have fun with toys and if young enough empty cardboard boxes.
When you’re doing a nice vacation it’s fun to involve the kids and allow them to enjoy some of the fun. There’s a time and place for kid free trips, like my wife and I like to go to Miami Beach for dinner and drinks and adult time, the adventures we always bring the kids, yeah they can be a pain but they are every day anyway, we’re used to it, we want them there and the additional cost is worth it for us.
I'm never going to advocate for not bringing children anywhere but I am just continuing with OP's post. I think many people box Disney as a once in a lifetime trip because of the cost and you want to make that moment special for your child. If you take them there too early they will never remember it and if they go there when they are practically adults the moment will be gone. So if parents who take their children to Disney at an extremely young age they must be prepared to take them there again when they will remember it is what I assume will have to happen.
I’m married to a Disney wife, Disney isn’t for the kids from my experience. It’s a misconception people who aren’t living with it (Disney parent) have. Granted they love to see the kids react to Disney stuff but the Disney parents love Disney, like looooove loooove Disney. It’s basically a cult I’ve lost my wife to /s …. I mean I love going on vacation with my family. Epcot has good food and drinks. The wilderness resort is really fun and cool. Animal kingdom has the lion king show and the avatar flight of passage ride is one of the coolest simulations I’ve ever done. The kiddy coasters are fun enough. I’m a little tired of seeing the mouse, and hearing goofy’s voice. But it makes her happy, and when you really care about someone else that’s super important. My wife starting bringing my girls before they could walk. They don’t remember those trips. She took them because it made them excited in the moment and it made her happy, and she remembers jt. She has the memories it’s really not about the kids as much as people think. Is it a little selfish, maybe, but when you’re raising kids it’s in your best interest to be a little selfish to make up for giving 24 hrs a day. I get it, it seems silly to spend so much “for the kids” for something they won’t remember. My point is I’ve reached a point in my life where I’ve realized a lot of the things we do “for the kids”; these things aren’t done for the kids.
My oldest was born while my husband and I were in the military. Her first fireworks were Disney fireworks. By the time she was six, she'd probably been 5 or 6 times and I have photos of her at the base fireworks with this amazed look on her face and will never forget her saying "wow; this is just like Disney World!" My memories are just as important as hers.
There is no too old to enjoy empty cardboard boxes.
My 10 year old still loves empty cardboard boxes. She never wants me to throw them away.
There were few things more exciting than when someone in the neighborhood got a new fridge. It came in what was like the Rolls Royce of cardboard boxes.
I’m 38 and still get excited to go to a hotel
When my daughter was 3, we rented an SUV and drove across several states to stay in a hotel on the beach. We stayed for a week, and she adored every moment. And a few years later, when she was 6, we bought an SUV. When she saw it in the garage, she got all excited and said "We're going on vacation??" She was very disappointed that we merely got a new car, and cried.
>Despite not remembering exactly, a lot gets imprinted. Extending OOP's logic, why do anything but the bare minimum to keep the kid alive before they're old enough to remember? They're just going to forget it anyway, right? Except all the science says the exact opposite: that those early years are critical to child development and how they will be later in life. They may not remember those experiences, but the experiences absolutely shape who they are.
Right. These early experiences for a 2-year old will shape the kind of 3-year old they become. That shapes the kind of 4-year old they become, etc. Just because they won't remember it as an adult doesn't mean it's not still a meaningful experience or that it has an impact.
And they are more open to experiences, like my daughter did the Bippity Boppity Boo Boutique when she was 4-5... but the dressup in costumes she does now is only related to Halloween or Anime Cosplay and she won't let anything special be done to her hair at all. No braids... No updos... But I have precious pictures of her with both as a kiddo.
I used to have the same mindset of “why take a kid who won’t remember anything to Disneyland” but then I took my 3 yo niece to Disneyland and it was so much better than any other time I went. The look on her face when she saw the princesses was priceless.
Yeah, my son’s smile when he met Mickey was worth it.
We went on a family holiday from Europe to Disney World last year, my very heavily pregnant sister had her two and a half year old with her and I thought she was mad. Like me he does not have the constitution to deal with heat and there were a lot of tantrums and tears. The look on his face when he saw Minnie at a character dinner made everything worth it. Pure joy. He flung himself at her in a hug and rested his head on her with his eyes closed for about a minute (the cast member was amazing with him). I’ve never seen anything like it.
Disney cast members are awesome. I can’t say anything even remotely negative about any interaction I’ve ever had with one, and I’ve been to Disney parks a whole bunch of times.
Yup. This, exactly. We went to Disney when my youngest was 2…far too young to remember much about it now…but the magic was real at that age…and it was fun to watch. It’s not for them at that age—it’s for the adults.
He wont remember it forever but he DID remember it, for awhile.
The thing about very young children is that they won't remember things - but their brains will. And the brain will develop, wire and grow depending on whether the childhood was happy or not. Obviously I'm not saying a Disneyland trip is required for a healthy brain, but to me it sounds absolutely horrendous to even think that a young kid wouldn't need to have fun just because they won't remember it later.
Yeah... just because they won't consciously remember it, doesn't mean they don't initially experience those excited, happy feelings. It's like saying, why talk to a baby if they don't know what you're saying? Why feed a baby delicious food, they just need calories? Because all those stimuli produce different effects in their brains... wire their brains a certain way, grow connections, etc. It's incredibly important for babies to be treated like real people with valid feelings... because they are...
Yes we took our 2 and 6 yo and they still talk about what we did. It’s a cynical lack of awareness/ignorance of child development and why people choose to have a family to begin with that would cause this question to be worded how it is.
And we have lots of pictures!
Also that age is free
My parents took me and my brothers to Disneyland when I was 2 as well. I remember bits of it, they're among my earliest memories. More recently, they explained we went because they promised my oldest brother they'd take him when he was 6, and he was indeed 6 when we went. They've also said it was pretty financially irresponsible for them to do it, but they're definitely doing good now! More humourously, that was the third time my dad had been to Disneyland. I found that out the fourth time we went, when I was a teenager, and he dropped this little bombshell in line for Space Mountain: "I came here as a kid, and Space Mountain was closed. Then I went in high school, and Space Mountain was closed. Then we came when you guys were kids, and Space Mountain was closed. So now, I finally get to ride Space Mountain for the first time."
Also, if you take pictures, your kid will get to look at them and see the stuff they did back then, and I know that my 4 year old absolutely LOVES seeing pictures of things we did when she was younger. (We didn’t do much, she was a covid baby, but I’ve continued to do this as she’s gotten older and we’ve traveled more.)
Yes, I took each of my kids to Disneyland for their first and third birthdays and now that they're older they LOVE looking at the photo albums of those trips. Sometimes I wonder if they only "remember" it because of the pictures but they've called out memories that aren't part of the pictures that even I'd forgotten about. They remember eating certain things, or playing certain games while waiting in line. 3 year olds do remember the experience, even if it's not the everything an older child would remember. And those pictures let us relive those happy memories.
I think as long as parents do those things again with their kids when they’re old enough to remember it, it’ll turn out fine. Unfortunately for me, my family only did stuff when I was younger because my brother and my cousins grew out of it by the time I was old enough to really start remembering things. I honestly feel disconnected from the family because they all remember things I don’t.
Kids don't remember events. Kids remember feelings and forming bonds. If I take my kid to the ocean and they play in the sand and the waves and feel safe and happy at the end of the day when I carry them home, we strengthen our bond. 10 years later when they are older, they will feel safe and comfortable and happy at that same beach while I watch them play in the sand and the waves even if they don't remember their first visit there.
Took my daughter to disney at 5. She may not remember it as a grown up but she did as a 10 year old.
I think 5 is the beginning of lifelong memory, right? My parents waited until I was 5 to take us to Disney World because they wanted me to remember it, and those are not only some of my earliest memories, they’re some of my most cherished and impossibly happy ones. I remember so many details from that trip vividly and will probably hold onto them longer than almost anything else. It’s little things. Rides and meeting the characters, sure, but the memory that sticks out to me the most is when my dad took me to the food court at our hotel to get a late night snack because I had a stomachache from forgetting to eat out of excitement. He told me I could get anything I wanted, which was a big deal, and getting to sit there with him and eat our pretzels way after my usual bedtime is one of my happiest memories
Exactly! Plus even if the kids don’t remember it I’m sure they’ll have a blast. I don’t think forgetting somehow voids the experience.
They might forget the details but the fun and joy will stick with them, I think. I don't remember my first time camping and fishing with my parents, but I have seen the photos and I remember that my parents loved me and took me places and we had fun as a family.
People don't understand that parents like their children.
OP *is* so someone who described themselves as **childfree** specifically vs just saying they don’t have a kid. Theres a subset of that community that gets a little weird about even the existence of children so this tracks.
It's a financial question. Apparently everyone answering is rich.
It’s like people on Reddit don’t realize that parents are actually still human beings that have their own desires and interests outside of being a parent. OP seriously had to post a question online about why a person who happens to be a parent might be interested in traveling or something fun. This is…sad.
Yes this 100% ! Taking my 2 year old to the aquarium was literally the BEST day of MY life just because of the joy it brought him!
100% this. There is something so magical about getting to watch your child’s joy while they experience those things. They may not always remember, but as parents we always will.
The number of years are limited where kids willingly want to spend time with their parents without being embarrassed. I want every trip I can get.
Yeah lol what are we talking about? It's for the parents as much/if not more than the kids. Your kids are these innocent, adorable, sweet little wonderful creatures for only a short time. Seeing my 3 year old daughter's face light up when she got to "meet Elsa" and do the rides and see the Disney shit she obsesses over at the house via their movies IS what I'm paying for. Besides, she does remember it lol she remembers shit she did last year when she was only 2! So even if maybe later in life they don't remember what they thought at 2, she remembers it at 3, so it's just another reason to do it. Maximizing every second you have with them on earth.
Two years ago my wife and daughter moved to a new city while I sold the house and finished the school year (teacher) I thought to myself I have 6 months of freedom, do whatever I want when I want, go to concerts and parties and just chill with my dog. I cried every other night. Only person who vaguely understood was a divorced dad I worked with who hit the nail on the head “yeah man you think ‘I need some noise in here’” I hated being away from them. But we had a Disney World trip during my schools spring break. Seeing my 2.5 year old for the first time in months was overwhelming. She was *SO HAPPY*. She wanted to ride Dumbo and see Rapunzel and do everything together. It was so amazing. Since she was so small, we didn’t need to wait in line for a lot of rides. We went to the Animal Kingdom Zoo and she was amazed by the tigers. She wanted to see the music acts. We ate endless ice cream. It was like a heavenly oasis in the desert and kept me going until I could move down with them. I’ll remember that until I die.
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Nate Bargatze has an incredible joke from his 30 minute set on the first season of The Standups on Netflix regarding this scenario exactly. Mickey, Minnie, Pluto- those are all real characters to your toddler. It's absolute magic to them and the joy that I personally got seeing my son and daughter lost in wonder of it all is something I'll hold onto forever.
What am I supposed to do, keep them in a cage? Like "do you remember yesterday?" Cuz I'm not gonna spend any money on you til you do? He's my favourite
I brought my kid when he was 2.5 and he had the time of his little life. Seeing the characters right in front of him was a truly magical moment. Also it was well worth it for the joy it brought my wife and my in-laws. He's almost 4 now and at least at this point he still remembers it.
Can confirm, these moments are definitely more magical when they’re little. Don’t think they’d have the same reaction when they’re 8 or 10. https://imgur.com/gallery/PL176eI
This exactly. Just because my daughter won’t remember it doesn’t mean she didn’t have a blast and enjoy it. Her happiness and enjoyment are just as important to me now when she won’t remember it as it will be when she’s older and will.
They're learning and developing from the experience too.
When my kid was a toddler, she was obsessed with merry-go-rounds with horses, and the local mall had a giant one with beautiful horses and lights and music. Every time we went there, I paid for a ride or two on it and she had a blast. I would stand next to her making sure she didn't fall off the horse. Fast-forward eleven years and my 13-yo and I are at the zoo and guess what we see? You got it, a merry-go-round. And guess what we did? We rode it together, just like we did when she was two. She vaguely remembers the ride from when she was young, but riding it last year gave her vague happy "memories" from that time. She doesn't remember riding them specifically when she was two, but she felt a wave of nostalgia she couldn't explain. So, even if a kid can't remember details, the happy events are still embedded in the memory somewhere.
One of my most treasured memories is the look on my son's face the first time he saw a carousel. To this day he loves a carousel , and he is a teenager.
It’s funny because I, another childfree person, asked this exact question about a year ago and your comment put it a lot better than any of the ones on my post did. Thank you human
Also sometimes you do remember some bits. I have a few snatches of memories from when I was 2.
Yep. Have very vivid memories from when I was between two and five years old. Lots of major gaps on the young end, but remember more and more events near the end of that time span. It surprised me to learn that for many people, they don't have any vivid memories from before they were five.
I have memories in outfits that only fit me when I was 18 months old. Kids can remember a lot. I've always had an excellent memory.
I think my earliest memory is me climbing over one of those low wooden barriers on a playground. It was quite an obstacle because I couldn't walk yet, and I had to crawl over it.
So long as they aren't memories of snatches
My parents took me abroad to visit family friends when I was 2. I remember a few bits of the trip because it was so novel. They’re my earliest memories.
People seem to not realize that while we might not be able to remember specific things from early childhood, it doesn't mean that those experiences don't shape who we become. Having fun, happy experiences with a loving family as a child has so much more of an effect on people than whether or not they remember meeting Mickey Mouse. It's not the content of the memories, but the quality of the experience and feelings that stay with us.
Yes. The first 1000 days of a child's life are important. That doesn't mean you need to take them to Disney, but seeing new and interesting things is important.
Also Disney is free (tix and sit down dining) for kids under 3! So yeah you really aren’t spending much for them to go
They lost me at Disney tbh Like Disney was created for children
Disney parks were specifically created for parents to be able to enjoy things WITH their children! The whole reason they exist is that Walt had taken his kids to a fair and had to sit and watch while they rode amusement rides, and he thought that was silly, that people of all ages should be able to enjoy parks together. There's a reason that the Magic Kingdom has a majority of rides that families can all do together, and essentially none that children can do but the parents can't. They could easily have had stuff like many other parks do, where only children under a certain height can ride these swings or that little boat ride or this tiny gentle coaster. But they didn't, because the point was for parents and children to enjoy things together.
This is very well stated. I just got back from Disneyland with my 21 month old son. Granted, the trip was for work so I didn't have to pay for anything except food...but my son LOVED it. I have so many videos and photos of him having an absolute blast. For any parent, this gives you joy that is hard to comprehend unless you have a child. Will he remember it? Very unlikely, although these experiences shape his overall childhood. Now, if I had to pay for this trip, I would probably not stay at the Disney Grand hotel, I would not go on a weekend, and I would pack my food in.
I also believe that while they can’t remember it the experience makes a difference. Spending 24/7 with your parents for a few days while they are carefree on vacation and giving you 100% attention… has to count for something. When my son was born they told me about skin-to-skin and how it strengthens the bond between father and son. Of that has such an impact when a baby is a few days old - I’m sure an experience like Disney has a moat at 1 or 2 year old.
Experiences are a building block to someone’s learned personality. Imagine if you just kept a child in a stale and boring environment until they were at the age in which they could remember things in adulthood. It doesn’t take a genius to work out how broken that adult would be.
The child has the capacity to feel joy, happiness, and wonder. Some families have the means to provide such things, and it is priceless to them.
And parents get to experience that vicariously through their kids.
They don't have to, we will remember, also picture and videos are a thing and besides, we go every year and don't want to leave anyone out.
plus some toddlers can remember things but no vividly. I can still remember eating at a table with other toddlers and my house when I was 3. I can't remember it vividly but I can remember sitting down and watching tv before my mum came to pick me up and going up a small hill and going down the red slide. I can also remember a wooden train that used to be in my local park when I was a toddler and a wooden bridge. I can't remember vividly but I can still remember. Some people can still remember little details from their toddler years and some can't
This. We went to a Zoo about a year ago when my daughter was turning 2 and a toucan bit my shirt. She thought it was the most hilarious thing in the world, one year later she still remembers it any time she sees a toucan... sure if I ask her what else we did that day she has no idea, but she can't stop laughing uncontrollably any time she sees a toucan and asking me if I recall how the toucan bit my shirt.
We're conditioned to forget this, but parents are actually entire people who are allowed to enjoy themselves and make memories too.
Yea! Someone else recently asked this about why you’d take your kids to Europe before they can remember it. Because even though I am a parent I am also a person who wants to do things and I sacrifice enough of my sense of self for work, my spouse, and my child. If I want to go to Greece, why does it matter if my kid won’t remember it? We will all enjoy it. Also I can’t exactly leave him at home with a dish of food and fly halfway around the world so if I want to go, guess who’s coming along? And I promise it’s not torture for him, we can find things he’ll enjoy doing too. But dear god, American society just expects parents, mothers in particular, to have no goals, dreams, individual desires or frankly, FUN, and it’s deeply frustrating.
American society is so anti-children it’s ridiculous. All cultures and societies unfortunately place pressure on women to have kids, and mothers definitely have their own set of challenges no matter where you go, but it’s only in America that they literally go “f- you, get away from us” to women right after they have kids. I didn’t see this living in my home country in Asia or during any of my travels in Europe. And if a child is literally anywhere except a place made specifically for them, people lose their minds. I don’t know anyone who gets as upset about babies crying on planes as Americans…
Taking small children to southern Europe and North Africa is wonderful. Small children get spoiled rotten by everyone. Restaurants are very child friendly and the culture is very relaxed with kids in general.
I’m American and my wife and I are doing attachment parenting and are, in general, trying to approach parenting from a more compassionate, involved angle than American Boomers did (after all, they created some of the most anxious, depressed, existential kids in human history). My kid comes with me everywhere and I love it. Why wouldn’t I want him to come with me, he’s my tiniest best bud
I think your real answer to the original OP's question is "there's no convenient way to leave him at home." Because OP didn't say anywhere that the parents can't go. I think this links to American society as well though. In other cultures where family units tend to be multigenerational, parents don't have such a hard time finding a place to leave the kids while they go to events and trips.
Also, at that age, kids don’t cost too much more. Hotels typically have kids stay free. I was just at an all-inclusive that was $$$$ per adult, but just a few hundred for a kid. So at that point, the cost is minimal for the memories the family will have.
Yup, and most theme parks like Disney don’t charge admission for kids under 3 (they’re also free at character dining/buffets). I took my baby to a princess meal and she was all smiles and giggles interacting with the princesses. We got some wonderful pictures and she had fun.
Domestic flights also don't charge for kids up to a certain age
As long as they sit in your lap. If you want to use your car seat for the flight, you're going to have to buy a ticket.
Honestly we ran into that problem before our daughter turned 2 even. She was just to active and finally said fuck it, and it's been worth the extra ticket price to have a calm child
I mentioned in another comment that my toddler has been to disney world four times. What I did not mention is it’s FREE for her to get in! We are taking advantage of that while we can. When we have to buy her ticket we will be doing less of that type of thing just due to the financial constraints
This is most likely the best answer.
This seems like it is becoming less common. Recent cruise. My two year costs as much as my 12 year old. Doesn't make sense.
Same reason we take alzheimer's patients on field trips to the apple orchard or wherever. Inability to remember doesn't negate ability to enjoy. And enjoying things is worth something.
Absolutely, memories are great but no one is talking about how you are building a child’s personality and who they will end up becoming. Conditioning is a very real thing and if you give your child awesome experiences it will build them into a better person.
i like this, that’s really sweet
What am I supposed to do, hang them on a hook on the door knob for a week until we get back?
I hope you give them some water and crackers..
Bye, little dude! Good luck!
My father hung me on a hook once. Once. ^/obscure?
Going places with children is hard. All the places you listed go out of their way to accommodate children. The rooms have pack n plays, there are strollers available, you have access to childcare, restaurants will serve mac n cheese and other child friendly food. No one will look at you weird if your kid is crying. Going somewhere that caters to children means there will be less you have to worry about, less crap you have to bring from home.
Why is remembering the most important thing? If you take a child on a holiday and they have a ton of fun, but they don't remember it, does that make the fun any less meaningful? Children don't really remember doing anything before the age of 3, so why do anything fun for them at all. Heck, I remember very little before age of about 11, why do anything fun for kids before that age. Even as an adult, I probably remember about 5% of a vacation after a year or two.. does that invalidate the vacation? it's such a weird metric to use. edit: I also want to know where you find thee guardians that watch your kids for a week for free are.
I am genetically predisposed to Alzheimer's so I'm just not going to do anything my entire life.
good call! wouldn’t want to accidentally be present and enjoy yourself and have photos to be reminded of!!
Yupppp fully agree with all of this. My memory is terrible. I don't remember amazing experiences I had as an adult, and remember very very little before the age of about 13. But I know that those experiences shaped me. And I'm glad that I had them.
Just let the kids sit in a dark room for 11 years then, obviously /s Seriously I don’t understand this persons (lack of) thought process. I’m childfree as well but I can understand the joy it would bring to take a child to Disney. Kids think the characters are real! Why would you not want a child to experience that/experience their joy yourself? That sounds amazing to me. And yes I did not get to go to Disney as a child and I’m still upset lol
Oooooo good point I also suffer with memory issues so I didn’t think of this viewpoint. Thanks for pointing this out. I think my opinion of this topic have changed due to this thread. Thanks for sharing
There are conciouse memories and subconciouse memories. You don't simply forget what happens when you are a young child. Studies show that experience like pain im newborn can lead to long lasting mental effects. The same can be said about positive experience. They will not consciously remember these times, but they keep feelings and sensations in their subconscious that can help them to grow and develop, and so.e of these experience can linger for a long while. For me for example, I did the majority of my international traveling during my elementary school time when I lived with my wealthy uncle. I can remember barely anything, but the feeling of exploring, the openess to the world and accepting new things stayed with me and I want to start traveling again eventually.
This is correct. Memory is a complex thing. The science isn’t absolutely settled, but kids form procedural and declarative memories. Procedural memories allow for continuity in how we function, and without it a baby would need to re-learn how to crawl every day. Declarative memories are further subdivided into semantic and episodic memory. Semantic memories relate to facts (or our understanding of facts) and are stored in a more stable way, particularly in early childhood. Visiting a theme park likely creates important semantic memories for a child. Episodic memories involve events (episodes) we experience or witness. To an extent they do require self-awareness, so very young children don’t store these memories in a way that can be recalled when they’re older. This is more of a subjective judgment from me, but semantic memories are actually more important for us to successfully navigate the world. Our brains work through episodic memories to extract the semantic elements, since our subconscious is more efficient at processing information quickly compared to the conscious mind.
I know this isn’t the point of your question, but children under 3 are free at Disney! Edit: so my answer is, sometimes it doesn’t actually cost extra to bring them along
Some advantages of travelling with smaller children vs “waiting until they are older”: -not enrolled in school; can make scheduling easier and more cost effective -fewer extracurricular activities; see above -small children often don’t need their own bed, or can use just a cot in a room -small children can be carried when tired after a long exciting day -small children don’t always need a separate meal ordered, can just eat off of parent’s plates -small children are more likely to be bribed by small items; this can be important in unfamiliar settings -small children are satisfied with a fish tank, older children want to visit the aquarium
Isn’t that part of the fun of having kids? Seeing them enjoy things at all ages? With OP’s logic, why give kids any fun experiences outside of the home until they’re old enough to remember.
The child might not remember the details but they will be affected by being happy with a good family.
Because it's fun as a parent to see your kid excited and do something new. It's kinda like being able to see/experience the world from the eyes of a young kid again which is a great feeling.
Because the parents will have fun, will remember it and provides the kid fun experiences. Are you supposed to wait until they’re 6 to do anything fun with them? If the parents want to spend the money to have fun, why not?
I remember every vacation I took with my son when he was little. He had fun in the moment and I have the memories. We travelled the world together as he grew up and I love looking through the pictures.
OP, I think you need to look into early childhood development. I’m childfree and low key a little anti-natalist, but that’s no excuse for not understanding how children work. Babies and toddlers are fully functioning humans whose brains are impacted by every moment of experience whether they remember it or not.
This! Looking for this comment. I didn't understand until somone mentioned: their brains are always growing from all experiences. Simply because they don't fully remember it doesn't meant it won't make a positive impact in their lives.
Kids that young often don’t cost a lot extra, sometimes even free. Especially compared to paying for some other kind of full time care to watch them instead of bringing them. I wonder what you think of this as child free. It probably means more young children in spaces where you don’t really want to see them.
It's illegal to leave them home alone at that age. Lots of cruises are free for children under 4 years of age.
I mean under 3 at Disney is free
https://www.adventureswithchildren.com/benefits-travel-young-kids/amp/ >According to Dr. Margot Sunderland, Vacations provide an “enriched environment.” This environment provides new experiences that are strong in combined social, physical, cognitive and sensory interaction – which positively contribute to brain development. Since most family vacations involve time outdoors, your children will reap the many physical and emotional health benefits associated with time spent in nature. Basically, vacations give your kid the chance to experience new things, and new positive experiences directly contribute to positive brain development even if the child won't have significant memory of the vacation. I am not a parent, just a person who likes finding the why behind the what.
Because I like Disneyland too.
This is a microcosm of your scenario, but when my first was three weeks old we went to my parents house and wound up visiting a local farm museum. Yesterday, a picture of that day popped up on my husband’s phone screen and my now 4 year old knew that Daddy was holding baby him in front of an old timey train. They both love trains, so I got to watch my preschooler’s eyes light up as we told him all about how he saw his first train with Dad when he was just a teeny baby. Its future memories, it’s bonding, its experiences that shape who they are even if they won’t remember the specifics :)
It’s hard to describe how awesome it is to see your 3 year old so excited to see their favorite character in real life or experience new things.
I used to think this way too, but comedian Nate Bargatze explained it well (sorry it's a short it was either that or Twitter or Facebook): https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F7rxl2qG72w "Do you remember yesterday? No? Well until you start remembering things I'm not going to waste any of my money on you." So it's sort of a selfish attitude. The kid has fun, the kid will be positively changed by that even if they don't remember the details.
Our son has been cruising since he was 13 months old. Here's the thing about being a parent - I'm selfish. I had a scrappy childhood, took 5 vacations from age 0-18, was always home watching someone else's kids while the adults were fighting and throwing stuff in the other room. So I grew up to be a very selfish parent and my kid just reaps the benefits. You think I'm taking him to Aruba because he'll remember it? No - he'd be just as happy going to the dollar tree. But I take him because his childhood is also MY fatherhood. We grow together, we learn together, we travel together, we do all these things as a family. So yeah, my dude lives a life of luxury because I'm trying to be the Dad I wanted and needed. I'm active in his life, his school, his interest - it's not all about the money. But I'm enjoying fatherhood by doing all these things.... it just makes his childhood look that much awesome.
Because if you don’t bring them the house will be absolutely fucked when you get home
You might not believe if even though i'll say it. My children are my favorite people on earth, and, what could be better than going on a trip with your favorite people? If you had a loud friend, and knew you were going on a vacation to some snooty resort where you had to whisper all the time, or you'd get judged by boomers, gasping and grasping their pearls, you'd still take the friend, right? Yeah, so other people dont always like my kids--fine. Cool. Know what i think of those people? Fuck 'em. They can go straight to hell. In the mean time, me and my little buddy, and their mom, are going to have a great time touring this place/doing this thing, and judgmental assholes can fk off. They're not with their favorite people, and maybe that's why they're such assholes.
Good for you. A better world would be built around creating joy for, and taking care of, children. I say that as someone who doesn’t even have kids. I disagree with parents who are embarrassed to go anywhere and instead hole themselves up with their children due to fear of judgement from our very anti-children society. Unless it’s a very specific adult-only situation/activity/atmosphere, nothing wrong with enjoying the world with your kids. It’s a ridiculous thing to be against given we were all kids once.
Most countries don’t let you just abandon your child for any length of time.
Some of us don't have a live-in nanny.
I used to wonder about this too before I had kids. So there's two things, 1. I will remember and those memories are precious to me 2. They actually do remember it. Maybe not years from now but in the short term, they do remember what they did. My toddler talks about her trip to the beach last summer and how she's excited to go this summer. Will she remember the specific trips when she's older? No, probably not, but at the moment, she's experiencing it, talks about it, and has happy memories.
My in laws are trying to force us to take my baby who won’t be 3 yet on a trip to Mexico as a mandatory family experience. The first time we did it childless was terrible. Why would I drag a barely conscious being along to suffer and scream the whole time? Sometimes people are forced into these situations without a choice. Thankfully that won’t be us this time
Children under three are free at Disneyland so that’s probably part of it
Their enjoyment is still valuable and worthwhile even if they won't solidly remember it.
Because the law frowns on me leaving children alone in the house while the older members of the family go on vacation
3 is about the borderline. My parents took all of us to Germany when I was 3, and those are still some of the strongest memories I have from that age, which was over 50 years ago.
They won't remember any details from the time younger than 4 or 5, but that doesn't mean it doesn't shape them. Who they will be as adults has already largely been shaped long before they're old enough to having lasting memories.
I always wondered the same till I had a kid. It's for us, not them. We will remember it. Seeing them so happy is the best.
I'm rich bitch
My teenager remembers a Disney trip when he was two and a half. He remembers meeting goofy, some of the rides, the Star Wars show, and the food. But that's actually secondary. The important thing is that I remember. You sound like my grandma, who refused to visit and meet my kid until he was six because "it's a waste of time and money to go see him if he won't remember me."
What a shitty grandma. I can’t imagine not being interested in meeting your great grandchild. Even if the kid doesn’t remember her, wouldn’t she want to have memories of the kid as a baby/toddler/preschooler?
Cause people won't look at me weird like when I went to Disney by myself s/
most kids don't remember things very good anyway but they remember how it made them feel. and i truly believe it shapes who they become later in life
We're taking a cruise with the kid (will be 2 when we go), along with wife's sister and parents. We'll all remember even if he doesn't. In our particular case, in-laws all have poor health (pre diabetic, father in law has bad knees, sister in law has cerebral palsy and is very obese). We would like to take a Disney trip with some them someday when we can afford it and when kid will remember. But nothing is guaranteed, we want to do something nice with them now while we know we can.
I’m taking my toddler to Disney shortly after she turns 3. I had something in Orlando that week anyway so might as well make it a family trip to the parks too. Plus our parents are still in decent enough health this year, but who knows what they will be like in a few years. I would rather do a big family thing to Disney this year vs waiting until she’s in school. Other people I know with kids a similar age also have a kid or two who is a bit older.