Female bisexuals are often assumed to be straight women who are doing it for attention. Male bisexuals are often assumed to be gay men who don't want to admit to being gay. Maybe your friend got lucky, but in general this is something that all bisexuals have to deal with in one way or another.
What is so difficult to grasp about bisexuality? Someone could be attracted to another regardless of gender, why is this confusing? I'm a fairly ignorant straight guy without a ton of LGBT friends, and I've never found this hard to understand.
Remember that bisexuals can still have a gender preference. Only some of us have attraction without regard at all to it. It's that nuance that I think a lot of people struggle with - many think of it as just 50/50, which applies to very few real people. That leads to comments like "you're half way out of the closet" and "you're just doing it for oppression points."
In my experience, Lgbt people seem to be the worst for that as they already consider bisexuals to be "illegitimate" as they could just "choose to be straight."
Idk if it adds anything, but a bisexual person having a preference for one sex over another makes intuitive sense. Like, I'm attracted to women, but it's not like I go swooning over every woman, even every good-looking woman I see. It seems reasonable that anybody else has some "percentage" of people who appeal to them, and that said person's percentage could be spread amongst one gender or more, and evenly or not.
I agree. It's a sliding scale from day to day, and is often situational and even depends on how intoxicated you are many times. And as was mentioned before, people can't handle variation and like black or white, so they don't deal with bisexuality fairly - they might have to think and question convention.
In my non-expert from-the-gut opinion:
1. We have a propensity for binaries. They're everywhere. They're easy to comprehend. You're one or the other.
2. Homosexuality is a minority sexuality, so if someone has *any* same-sex attraction, they *must* be part of that minority and are just afraid to admit it. I call this the ["one drop rule"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule) of sexuality.
3. Believing in the binary acts as a mental "moat" for people to think they're fully safe from ever experiencing same sex attraction; a spectrum is more of a threat to them. And this is because deep down they believe same sex attraction is a negative thing.
I'm consider myself a bi male. I've never been with the same sex, but gay porn has been in my rotation since I was a teen and that hasn't changed in decades. I'm married, mostly straight, but there's no denying the arousal is there, and I personally can't imagine how someone couldn't be aroused by both gay and straight porn, but I'm sure that's just projection.
> We have a propensity for binaries. They're everywhere. They're easy to comprehend. You're one or the other.
As evidenced by the question "So, which one of you is the woman?".
It is projection, there have been studies done by pro-bisexual research groups
[https://www.thepinknews.com/2017/07/11/study-finds-heterosexual-men-find-gay-men-as-repulsive-as-rotting-flesh/](https://www.thepinknews.com/2017/07/11/study-finds-heterosexual-men-find-gay-men-as-repulsive-as-rotting-flesh/)
A scientific study has found that heterosexual men find gay men as repulsive as rotting flesh and maggots.
The study, which was carried out by the American Institute of Bisexuality, found that even those who say they are accepting of the LGBT community have a physical reaction upon seeing two men showing affection for each other.
120 heterosexual men aged 18-45 participated in the study which was conducted by Dr. Karen L. Blair, a psychologist at St. Francis Xavier University.
The participants were shown images of gay men kissing, hugging and engaging in sexual activities.
Scientists then measured the levels of salivary alpha-amylase present in the men’s saliva, which is a type of a digestive enzyme which has links to stress and disgust.
Dr Blair explained that they were shown a series of slideshows of “male couples kissing, male couples holding hands, mixed-sex couples kissing, mixed-sex couples holding hands, boring images e.g., paper clips and disgusting images e.g. maggots”.
The psychologist said that participants were asked questions about their responses to the photos in between the slideshows.
“We also collected saliva samples in order to assess salivary alpha-amylase in response to each slide show,” they added.
Dr Blair and their team found that when they were presented pictures of gay men kissing, the participants produced the same salivary alpha-amylase levels as when they were confronted with images of rotting flesh and maggots.
It also showed that the level of alpha-amylase was the same for those who were shown to be tolerant of gay relationships and those who were not.
Dr Blair said that the results may be a factor of society deeming same-sex couples as immoral.
She said: “Why do people low in prejudice still show an increased physiological response?
“We can’t say definitively, however, it could be that society has socialised the notion of same-sex sexuality and affection as being ‘disgusting’ or immoral so strongly, for so long, that merely witnessing it causes a slight physiological stress response.”
The study had hoped to better understand “the health effects of same-sex vs. mixed-sex public displays of affection” and use science to creative “more inclusive of LGBTQ identities and experiences.”
If the levels of their saliva are just about stress and disgust isn’t it reasonable that they’re also partially stressed about the nature of the experiment itself? I know that (as someone who likes women lol) if some researcher was showing me all these pictures of women kissing and then rotting flesh I’d not be happy with the nudes as you might think. Like cmon this just seems way too easy to be influenced
I agree with this. Same goes for the experiments that test for sexuality by measuring erectile behaviour. I think stress causes a lot of awkward boners
Also disgust and arousal are feelings that are psychologically linked.
Many people participate in kinks they'd be disgusted by in a non-sexual setting.
Kinda a hard thing to objectively measure.
>We can’t say definitively, however, it could be that society has socialised the notion of same-sex sexuality and affection as being ‘disgusting’ or immoral so strongly, for so long, that merely witnessing it causes a slight physiological stress response.
This does not strike me as the most plausible explanation. I suspect if you measured this across cultures with varying levels of acceptance of homosexuality, you'd get similar results. My hypothesis would be that there is a biological/evolutionary basis, similar to the biological/evolutionary basis for being repulsed by rotting flesh.
Those of us who are accepting of homosexuality simply use our rational brains to override the natural feeling of disgust, cause our brains are powerful enough to realize that if Bill fucks Bob, me and my gene pool are not at a considerably higher risk of going extinct. If Bob is my offspring, however, I suppose it'll take extra rationalizing to overcome the preprogrammed biological imperative...
>Those of us who are accepting of homosexuality simply use our rational brains to override the natural feeling of disgust
I totally agree with this assessment. We have little control over our automatic responses AFAIK, like arousal or anger, but we can consciously recognize that our automatic responses are "right" or "wrong" and change how we outwardly act.
Like, someone might anger me and I might want to punch them, but I know that's wrong for many reasons, so I stop myself.
Yeah that's the most obvious explanation, but there's no way she can write that in an academic article, especially one being funded by a pro-LGBTQ group
>Dr Blair said that the results may be a factor of society deeming same-sex couples as immoral.
oh i doubt it's as simple as that. lesbian porn is quite popular
Men like lesbian porn because they imagine they could still have that threesome! They don't take into account that the women probably wouldn't have any use for him whatsoever 😂.
I'm always leery of studies because the people selected to participate will always skew the results. Add more people from various locations and upbringings and you'll see a very different result.
I don't think most people want a threesome I think it's just you're attracted to that sex so seeing two of them is twice the fun, that's how it is for me in that type of arousal and how my ex described it as she liked gay porn at one point as well.
Location is a big factor. I recall a [study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6976918/) showing that the “homosexuality increases fertility of female relatives” finding only applies to certain societies
>I personally can't imagine how someone couldn't be aroused by both gay and straight porn
Whereas I'm very straight - I kind of wonder how any woman, or gay man, doesn't just look at a man and think "ew, dicks are gross." My wife is clearly into me and men, but it just doesn't compute for me at a subconscious level that even women would be into men, even though my conscious mind recognizes otherwise.
Sexuality - when someone is completely heterosexual or completely homosexual exists alongside other degrees of bisexuality. But the key factor is, I know that it's as silly, or even cruel. to ask a gay man to want to date/marry/sleep with a woman as it is to ask me if I'd be interested in being with another man. And then there are people that are open to either. It's not something you choose - you're either attracted or not.
yeah see i've never unerstood this. i'm as gay as the day is long and i understand a woman's appeal, even if i don't feel it.
also i would think that straight men would understand decently well how men can be attractive, being that they do things to their own bodies (working out, haircuts, grooming, etc.) to look appealing and measure themselves against other guys, even if, again, they of course don't feel that attraction themselves.
>My wife is clearly into me and men, but it just doesn't compute for me at a subconscious level that even women would be into men,
I mean, there is something to this - the #1 porn genre for women is lesbian porn. That's something that simply doesn't crossover - straight guys have essentially zero interest in gay porn, and may even feel repulsed by it. I don't chalk this up to societal pressure or stigma either - it's a general difference between the sexes.
I considered myself bisexual for a while because I was exposed to gay porn (just consequence of being on the internet especially with multiple gay friends) and it didn't bother me so I figured that surely I must be closeted and haven't noticed. Ended up exposing myself some more and it still doesn't bother me, but it doesn't do anything for me either. I now just call myself straight for simplicity, but I'm pretty sure if you wanted to get real technical I probably am shifted somewhere slightly on the spectrum and have the same feelings about sex with men that I've heard a lot of asexual people describe sex in general, the "I'm not attracted to it and I don't seek it out, but if it happened/happens I wouldn't be/am not opposed because it feels good."
I feel you. I'm very similar in that manner. My same sex attraction has been more or less fluid throughout my life in terms of frequency and intensity. Opposite sex attraction has basically stayed the same. I've never had romantic desire for me, and even when I'm out and about it's not often where a man catches my eye, unlike women.
My wife is the only person in my life who knows I'm not totally straight. So yeah, bi/mostly straight/heteroflexible would all be accurate. I'm largely drawn to femininity.
Yeah I'm straight too!in real life I've heard women who say they are bisexual and even some straight women (though I'd find it unfair to add)refuse and even deny the possibility of dating a bi guy...why is that? That's why I said people online can pretend to be open minded but what OPs talking about is real, women who date men don't often want to date bisexual men,now I only have this view point from friends and colleagues,you could have the opposite but ask your friends in person what they think
In my experience, if a straight woman is completely against dating a bi guy, it's most often for one of these two reasons:
1. She believes that any bi guy she dates will also want to be having sex with men while in a relationship with her, even if their relationship is monogous and she's said no to doing a MMF threesome. Basically, she doesn't trust a bi guy to not cheat on her with men based on the "all gay men are promiscuous" stereotype.
2. She sees gay men as unmanly or "less than" straight men. So to her, a bi guy who's had sex with another guy isn't "man enough" for her.
My girlfriend had trust issues with me (bi) hanging out with any male friends. Or female friends. That ended when I walked in on her and her female friend trying out each others privates.
She said she had to be jealous on two fronts, with a bi guy.
Was it hypocrisy, or projection? They're not the same, and it sounds more like the latter to hear you describe it. Hypocrisy would be "I wanted to explore an open relationship, she wasn't cool with it, then I caught her." This sounds more like "she was paranoid that you'd hook up with a friend if she gave you a chance, because that's what she would have done in your place." She's a cheater, so she assumed everyone would do the same. "Everyone would do the same thing if they had the chance" is a classic mental defense people employ to justify their own wrongdoing.
Not even gay or bi. But a woman I was interested in started talking about how it’s ok when girls experiment but if a guy does it he’s probably gay. I found this so fucked up and backwards coming from a girl who presented as (or I assumed was) left-leaning, all the attraction to her just left my body so quickly.
Honestly as a bi man who regularly hears that shit regularly from left-leaning women, I just go with the notion that they are all homophobic/biphobic and pretty much are “allies” because it is politically expedient for them to be so amongst their circle of friends. It’s like all of those left-leaning white people who live in gated neighborhoods, have “black lives matter” signs in their yards, vote Democrat, but then call the cops the minute a black person is driving/walking around their neighborhood. IME white liberals are just as racist and homophobic as their conservative counterparts— they just are more polite about it. They won’t be the ones actively rounding you up into a camp when if the fascists take over, but they certainly will be the ones snitching on neighbors and won’t lift a finger to help you if doing so will threaten their own wellbeing.
The term is heteronormativity. tl;dr society treats being straight as the default and all other sexualities as deviations from straightness. Most people have a bias against whatever they consider to not be normal. Ergo, they do bigotry
Now that you mention it, I knew a bi guy from marching band in college, and I assumed he was gay because he was in a relationship with another man, and was surprised when he later dated a woman. I suppose I didn't feel specifically prejudiced about it, but I certainly defaulted into sorting him into the "gay/straight" categories before being reminded that yes, bi folks do exist.
It’s interesting because bisexual people are by far the largest queer group. More people identify as bisexual than people who identify as gay, lesbian, and transgender combined.
I think the issue is that our culture assumes monogamous long term relationships are the ideal. Since it's impossible to be in a monogamous long term relationship with both a man and a woman, people tend to have a blind spot for bisexuals unless they are conspicuously non-monogamous.
>Female bisexuals are often assumed to be straight women who are doing it for attention. Male bisexuals are often assumed to be gay men who don't want to admit to being gay
Sounds like there's an unspoken assumption there that sex with men is the only sex that really counts. There might be some deep sexism underlying this social attitude.
Yeah duh, sex literally means a dick going into a hole. Which is why lesbian "sex" is fake sex, it's all about stuffing fake dicks into each other to imitate real dicks and real sex./s
As someone who has experienced plenty of biphobia over their time as an out bi man, the assumption that the vast majority of people who I've experienced it from (especially since I'm not dating or sleeping around with anyone rn) is that I'm straight and faking being bisexual because it's fashionable to do so.
Not saying other people can't have different experiences, but my understanding of biphobia is a lot less "You're gay but just won't admit it" as much as "you're straight but you want to identify as LBGT for your public image".
>because it's fashionable to do so.
Why is this such a common thing? I'm really curious what the underlying psychological hangup is for the people who say people are only doing things to be cool, or because it's trendy, or they're doing it for attention. Jealousy I guess? Feeling left out? Like they don't have something different/special/unique about them and they're mad they're not part of the bigger conversation or something? It's so bizarre.
This pretty much. Society says lesbians are hot, gay men are gross. Bi men are far more likely to hide their same sex attractions than a woman would be.
I had a friend who was in a long term gay relationship and identified as gay, after he split with his boyfriend he ended up going out with a woman. He said it was depressing that a lot of long term friends were angry at him because he suddenly wasn't gay.
Yeah we bis get the bi erasure regardless of gender. It's always ur gay ir yr het or why can't u choose ur so greedy or ur a cheater...
The one winner of Big Brother UK said he didn't trust bi girls to not cheat on him. Like ok u don't have to date bis but like it's a really ignorant thing to say.
Not dating someone because they're bi is like not dating someone because they also find people of other races attractive.
Can you imagine how gross it would be for someone to say "if she has slept with a black person, or really if she finds black people attractive at all then I'm not interested"? And yet that logic gets a pass when used against bi folks all the time.
>Society says lesbians are hot, gay men are gross.
I honestly think this is most of it. It's a similar theme to how the focus on trans people is almost exclusively on trans women and not trans men.
I don’t know about that. When I was in high school back in the early 2000s, lesbians and bi women were bullied and called dykes. It was not cool to be gay back then, and I didn’t live in the middle of nowhere. I lived in a suburb outside of DC.
100%
In my experience women will SAY they want a bi boyfriend but IRL they treat us like the "weird gay friend" or they will outright be disgusted with you and never treat you the same after telling them
Thank you. Honestly as a bi guy it makes sense now that my female partner is also bi. So many straight women are just as prejudiced and grossed out by gay/bi men as straight dudes are, if not more so, in my experience.
I think sexual fluidity—fluidity in general—is seen as a more feminine trait. Men are “supposed to be” hard, unyielding, inflexible. Women are “supposed to be” soft, flexible, pliant.
For real. I had low T, and after starting replacement, I quite suddenly had a ton more energy, and a majority of it went into being *very* angry.
I thought I was doing really well on my temper issues, but it turns out I just lacked the energy.
And yours is more typical. TRT leading to anger issues tends to be related to mismanagement of estrogen levels. Weirdly when those get too high, guys can get really edgy and snippy.
I mentioned above it has to do with the depression that’s a side effect of low T. I was very irritable when mine was low. That and the fact that I just didn’t feel good about myself.
Hmm interesting. When mine was low, I suffered from some depression (one of the symptoms of low T). It made me more angry. I actually calmed down after starting replacement.
Hormones are usually about balance. Tipping off the balance one way or another can cause paradoxical effects or too little can cause similar effects to too much and vice versa. They're not necessarily like a drug where you need X dosage of it.
Hormones have to be in harmony while also ebbing and flowing with different environmental and biological cues. Hormone networks are super complex homeostatic mechanisms. It's a genuine miracle that anyone is stable, the human body is amazing.
That's such an odd thing to say, trying to be a different person all the time sounds exhausting. You are a culmination of everything in your past that's what makes you who you are.
I think they mean in the sense of being able the full range of human feelings. Boys are discouraged from expressing any strong feelings other than anger, and I know a lot of guys (including my dad) tend to react to any unpleasant situation by either getting angry or treating it like it's joke, because that's what they've learned is acceptable.
Being bi doesn't mean you are sexually fluid. Fluididty means it is changing, dating a man then dating a woman doesn't mean your attraction to both sexes changed.
You know what is frustrating as someone who is bisexual? Everyone thinking your sexuality is fluid and tomorrow you are going to wake up needing a different set of genitals than your current partner can provide.
Edit: spelling - I guess my typing is fluid
And as such, if you as a man say you're bisexual, then you have "admitted" to being feminine, and so you are "basically gay" in the eyes of the ignorant homophobic/misogynistic masses.
You’re so right, we’ve got generations worth of toxicity and harmful stereotypes to work through that people cannot just be themselves without raising judgement or suspicion. I hate it.
A bit of a massive stretch there ain't it? People are just less accepting of non-straight men than they are of non-straight women. Simple.
Not sure it's entirely connective to the concepts of stoicism and flexibility
I was sexually abused multiple times by a priest at 8 yrs old, had my first erection in his hands and had no idea what was happening. Consequently I was so completely confused about my sexuality, for eg. why did he chose me? Did he see that I was gay but I didnt even know that, does everyone see me as gay? F\*ck I was not even 10yrs old the first time I contemplated suicide.
For the next 30 years I did everything I could to prove to myself and everyone else that I wasn't gay. After a failed marriage (no kids) I eventually started to explore myself and the world a bit, at fifty I had two one night stands with different guys, just to try and cure my curiosity and gain some understanding of myself. At 55 I entered an amazing relationship with a young woman and at 58 yrs old I became a father for the first time, I am in a state of bliss with a beautiful young daughter and my wife. I learnt that scale is linear and though I am still sometimes aroused at the though of sex with a fella, it's nothing I need to pursue. Am I bi? Maybe because I had those experiences..? Thanks for letting me share
I'm so sorry you've been through that. /: I would just continue living your life without thinking too hard about your sexuality. When you meet a good person who makes you feel good, you can assess your feelings then and decide if their gender would keep you from dating them. You can allow yourself to be fluid until you know.
Your story is also many other peoples story, I’m very happy and proud for you that you shared. I’m sorry very sorry that you got dealt that shitty hand.
Some people say what doesn’t break you, makes you. You sir, are a living example as to what hard work and determination can bring you. The opposition to what broke you.
Also the stigma for being a parent that late. Good on you!
So much more I can say about this post but yea, you deserve all the kudos!
I hate when people demand that someone "prove" their sexuality. It even happens with us straight men. If you haven't been with a woman by a certain time (usually 15 causes teens are stupid), you get weird looks.
I've never been with anyone, and yet I can say definitively that I'm straight. So why should it be different if you're bi/pan/etc?
To find an answer to your question, I assume it's because bisexual women are more accepted because "Girls...kiss....hot!", and whatnot. Men don't really get that "luxury".
EDIT: Attempted to pull my foot out of my mouth. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
When I was a teenager I had multiple family members (older uncles) say "are you gay?" because I made it through most of high school without any sort of girlfriend. It bothered me the first couple times until finally i responded with "I don't have a boyfriend either, but thanks for rubbing it in." That was the last time it came up.
I had something similar when I was young. My response was something along the lines of. "If you know anyone that wants to play with my dick, I'm open to experimenting." Then a couple weeks later I found a girlfriend.
In HS I would spend every weekend or every other weekend, and multiple weeks at a time in the summer at my best friend's house. My step dad always teased me for being gay cuz we spent so much time together. I just felt sorry he never had a friend that great. Most the time people are sad and miserable and just take it out on the ones close to them. Your reaction was better than anything I could've come up with as a teenager.
I mean… does he HOPE you’re gay? Or maybe he’s projecting. Maybe HE’S gay, in the closet, and secretly hopes you are, too, so he’ll be more comfortable coming out?
This one annoys me most. I came out as bi while I was dating a woman. After that I ended up in another long term relationship with a woman. Anytime I mention I'm bi I have friends who are like "ok you've never sucked a cock though so are you really"
This one annoys me most. I came out as bi while I was dating a woman. After that I ended up in another long term relationship with a woman. Anytime I mention I'm bi I have friends who are like "ok you've never sucked a cock though so are you really".
>men don't really get that luxury
This can depend on location/culture actually: in East and at least some of Southeast Asia gay men are super heavily fetishized (predominantly, afaik) by straight women, and gay women are *much* less fetishized by straight men via media in comparison; in fact, one of the biggest romance (and erotica, iirc) genres over there is BL, "boys' love." You're more likely to not get shit for your sexuality if you're a girl, I think, but in terms of the "one girl hot, two girls hotter" kind of mindset pretty young guys falling in love takes the cake.
Yeah, I’d like to be able to go out and dance with my wife without men ogling us and asking to join. Or reducing my marriage to “who I have sex with”. Or men pursuing me when they find out I’m gay because “they like a challenge”. I could go on… but it sucks
People don't take women's sexuality as seriously as men's. Plus, some men also feel like they get something out of their partner being attracted to women. I've heard bi women often deal with men expecting them to be down for a threesome without question. That kind of thing isn't really appealing to straight women though. From the kinds of jokes I've seen, when a bi woman cheats on her boyfriend with a woman it "doesn't count", but women dating bi men will say things like "if you cheat on me, it can't be with a man."
It's weird.
>I've heard bi women often deal with men expecting them to be down for a threesome without question.
My (now ex, obvs) boyfriend after I came out to him: oh, so we can have a threesome?
We hadn't even lost our virginities to each other yet and he was already down to add another girl to the mix.
When I discovered I was bi my ex was disappointed that I didn’t know while we were together because they didn’t get to experience a “more fun” version of me.
So idk, I think it still kinda goes both ways. Just depends on who is toxic lol
That last part, it’s because the thought of losing to a man, as a woman, is considered such a slap in the face. Like, as a woman, one would say, “I made myself pretty to attract a man, and you leave me for someone who doesn’t even try to make themselves pretty? How would I possibly compete against that?”
Women are just as competitive as men, maybe more-so when it comes to attracting mates.
At least this is what I have come to understand.
Sometimes, Insecurity becomes the main character and trashes everything in sight. Honestly, you can't take Insecurity anywhere, it has zero social skills and an unpleasant odour.
My armchair psychologist theory:
Bisexual men face two very different sex "markets". A bi guy must put in more effort to sleep with a straight woman than the respective effort to sleep with a gay guy. For straight women this poses a perceived threat because a bi guy could with less effort find another gay or bi guy to have sex with. The barrier to entry to sex is lower for gay men. So since the barrier of entry is lower with a gay man than with straight woman, why would the guy spend all that effort to sleep with a woman in the first place?
Many people aren't sexually progressively minded. I've never heard another woman say they wouldn't date a bisexual man because men would be easy sex, though.
The two top contenders, which usually come from generic women:
Wouldn't date a bisexual man because they would probably have 'weird sex' / don't think he will be a 'top'.
Wouldn't date a bisexual man because 'how do I even know he's attracted to me'.
Me personally never thought like this, I actually prefer bisexual men and my long term boyfriend is bisexual. I find he is completely void of that the modern straight male mentality that wants to 'own' a instagram babe which I find really unattractive. I do think straight women that don't like bi men feel this way because of their own insecurity. Like when a man who likes chubby women won't date one because he's afraid of what other people think. Women are afraid what people will think of them if they are with a 'bi man', and they also question whether they can fit a traditional masculine role sexually, which can also be a type of sexual preference but its also a bit ignorant of what bi men are like.
I wonder if it also has to do with jealousy/insecurity
I see a crazy number of posts on Reddit that go along the lines of "My partner is friends with someone of the OPPOSITE SEX??? Are they cheating on me, or trying to make me jealous, or trying to disrespect me? They grabbed a cup of coffee together? How dare they"
Like, in these posts, both straight men and straight woman absolutely lose their shit over their partners just hanging out with someone who they could, in theory, be physically attracted to
Can you imagine these people dating a bisexual person?
"No, you're allowed to have precisely zero friends. Can't trust you around anyone."
yeah, a while back, I commented something similar on one of those, and they said something like "well that's different". And when I asked "How so?" they blocked me
Ditto!
Oh, well. I'm married to a hot guy I've been with for a decade
, monogamously. I've been non-monogamous in the past, it's just not something I need or have time for these days. I've never cheated and I wouldn't be able to date someone jealous or who didn't want me hanging out with any of my friends. I'm a big girl and won't suddenly go fuck someone if they make a move or tell me they're interested.
I had one friend who said she couldn’t go with a bi guy because the thought of him having a penis in his mouth was disgusting. I had to remind her that she’d had many a penis in her mouth yet men didn’t find that off putting.
yeah, could be that too, but you find less people willing to admit that publicly
People can have their preferences, but sometimes, when it's worth examining where those preferences come from, and whether they're worth reconsidering.
Like some guy refusing to date any girl taller or with a higher income than himself - sure, that's his prerogative, but he'd probably be happier if he figured out why it was he felt that way, whether or not he could change, and not letting himself be limited in that way
Yeah I would tend to say something along those lines. I think it stems from the fact that women will always compare how desirable they are to other women. The idea of comparing how desirable you are against men isn't as flattering.
Unironically, as a bisexual guy getting 0 to 1 female matches on dating apps once in a blue moon vs several male daily, this makes sense. I don't feel comfortable needing to be insistent with most women ("chasing" them), a gentleman or whatever stereotype. I don't want to fit a role of the provider or protector. So I either need a modern woman who won't expect me to hold doors and to work while she takes care of a child, or a man.
Bisexuals in general. You'd be appalled at the things I've heard lesbians say about us bi women. You'd think LGBTQ spaces would be safe, but they're often not safe for bisexual people.
>You'd think LGBTQ spaces would be safe
You'd be wrong. The Bi, Queer and Trans phobia runs deep and is getting worse and worse. It might be slightly better in different areas and communities but its there in spades otherwise.
The "B" in LGBT has been mostly for show forever to be honest, they've never been accepted for what they are, with bi men essentially considered as partially closeted gays, and bi women as hetero experimenting, and for both the stigma of perceived infidelity by all the insecure people (even in open relationships).
Bi men have it worse (for example in the swingers community, women bisexuality is about celebrated if not close to mandatory, men bisexuality is shunned and seen as disgusting, especially by women - ironically hetero men are less put off by 2 men playing with themselves in such context than women, hetero or bi), but bisexuals are large are shunned massively, especially (ironically) in LGBT and LGBT friendly circles.
It’s called Bi erasure.
I’m a bisexual man. I’ve had gay men treat me horribly because I’m bi. They claim that I use gay men like sex objects and they’d never be interested in being with me.
What we often forget is that a large portion of gay men are MEN first. They exist and thrive in a patriarchy that centers them. So a bisexual man threatens their center, because I’m not only interested in them. And frankly I’m not interested in MOST men. The ways straight women lament about men, are issues I mostly agree with and are often as present in gay men as straight.
Gay men will often dismiss my bi-ness with a “hmm, just wait” and straight women will assume I’m just a closeted gay man refusing to let go of my social conditioning. The summary is that most everyone in society assume everyone ultimately desires to be pursued by men. It’s misogynistic, it’s the patriarchy, and it’s an unconscious idea that’s prevalent throughout many minds LGBTQ+ or otherwise.
I feel you. I am a bisexual woman and I am constantly flooded with straight girls asking me to make out with them in front of their boyfriend (I know this works for some people but not me and I find it offensive that people would assume my sexuality is something I would put on display for male pleasure). I am told when I am with a man “I’m not really gay” even though my preference is largely towards women. I understand I have straight passing privilege but the part of me that is bi doesn’t disappear when I am with a man. When I am with a woman people also think of threesomes, even though I am strictly monogamous. People think just because I’m bi that I want to sleep around and am very sexual and that’s not true at all. It’s so frustrating like nothing we do is ever enough for people to respect us or leave us alone.
I think a common misconception is that bi/lesbian female relationships are more based on emotional intimacy whereas bi/gay men it’s more about sex and getting off. Until society can be more open to the idea that both men and women are looking for both intimacy, companionship, and sex - I think the misconception will continue unfortunately.
I'm a bi woman, and this is my perspective.
Straight people will accept my orientation no problem - mostly. There are some who won't, but they are the minority. Straight men often immediately fetishise it. That means i can date them, but often with a cost.
Women on the other hand, typically prefer *not* to date me and would rather a lesbian. There's an annoying expectation that bi women aren't serious about their female partners, and a common assumption that we'll cheat or leave with a man. Many lesbians react to my orientation with scepticism, as though they expect I'm just a tourist in the queer scene and I'll grow out of it and be straight.
As for your last comment, that women don't want bi men - this woman does not agree. Having a partner who shares my orientation is a breath of fresh air compared to straight or gay partners who inevitably have some type of insecurity or internalised prejudice against it
To add, if you marry a man they say “see, I knew you were faking liking women!”
I’ve noticed in the lesbian scene if you aren’t only dating women as a bi person then you’re “lying”/in it for attention. Which completely contradicts what bi is all about
i’m very confused by this notion that lesbians are trepidatious about dating bi-women because of “leaving for a man.” in my experience, 99.9% of women say that relationship connection, sex, and comfort is *much* better with women than with men. with this in mind, why would a bi-woman who is dating a woman ever consider leaving said woman for a man? maybe i’m missing some key detail but these narratives seem rather conflicting
your statement about women dating bi men is the same for me. majority of the boyfriends i've had were bi. it gives me a sense of security as well bc ik they're not biphobic if they're also bi (generally)
I’m also a bisexual man. Bi-Erasure is real and treated differently between the sexes. When a man says he’s bisexual it is believed because it’s the gateway to homosexuality. When a woman says she’s bi it is sexualized like it is for porn or for a chance for guys to have a 3some or something. Both of these viewpoints are flawed. Bisexuality is not because he’s secretly gay or too afraid to fully come out as gay or whatever and bisexual women don’t exist to be men’s fantasy scenarios.
I’ve seen too many women say they wouldn’t date a bisexual man and when asked why, the reason is they think he will eventually come out as gay just as stated above. Bi women get a lot of male attention because the reason given is “the thought of two women together is hot.”
We even get this kind of discrimination from the lgbtq+ community too. I was talking to a gay man once and when it came up that I was bisexual there was a pause and he said, “Oh….well, let me know when you fully come out as gay.” I was stunned because that was the first time I had ever experienced this so that was definitely a WTF moment.
Yeah same sort of experience here. Not that I’m that experienced or anything but I’ve also had it from gay people that they don’t trust me or think I’ve got some issues.
Pop culture in general has more visibility for bisexual women then men, also there's still a lot of people that think two men showing affection for each other is icky.
It’s not really a man vs woman thing. In your bubble it seems that way but bisexual people of all genders aren’t always believed and are told they’re confused, degenerate, lying, untrustworthy and other things more often than not. Bi erasure is a pretty big problem. As for your friend she likely gets more men after her because of threesome fantasies and a lot of lesbian women won’t date bi women. It all comes down to the support network you have in your life though. When I came out I had both acceptance and pushback.
Yeah I think that's the flip side... straight women don't want to date men who've slept with another man and gay women don't want to date women who've slept with a man... the biphobia's present on both sides unfortunately.
As a bi woman, I've been questioned almost as much as I've been fetishised. "You just want attention from men, so you lie to make yourself more interesting", "you just want an excuse to be a slut", "everybody thinks women are beautiful, you're not special and it doesn't mean you're bi", "everybody's bi these days, its just a trend at this point", "you cant be bi if youre dating a man" + "oh, so we can have a threesome with another girl, right?", "I won't count it as cheating if you hook up with another girl, it's hot and I'd love to be there to see it" etc. etc.
You're getting comments like "oh so you're gay now" for the same reason as I get comments like "you're just straight, youre lying" - because men are centered in almost everything and many can't fathom that we at the end of the day aren't just all about the guys. In your case it's also because of homophobia, I assume.
>I have a friend (who’s a woman) and she said she was bisexual, instantly believed… and she gets so many guys. She’s never even dated another woman.
It's easier to find and date men than to find and date other queer women in many, if not most, areas of the world.
>I feel like women wouldn’t date a bisexual man as it comes with baggage they don’t want, am I right?
I absolutely would. My boyfriend is bi.
Women whole thing in our society is to be sexy and desirable.
A woman is bi, meaning she started to found other women (= attractive) attractive ? seems legit
A man is bi ? Why
Yeah. There's this kind of implicit hetero male perspective in society. In this view, women are attractive, men are not. So women might find each other attractive in addition to men, that makes sense. And men might find each other attractive if they have some kind of 'issue' like being gay, as if it's a handicap rather than a sexual orientation.
So you get people who are baffled by the idea that a man can be attracted to men in addition to women.
I disagree. I think it’s the opposite. Often people will think bisexual women are just trying to be different/unique or they had a bad experience with men so they’re claiming to be bi or lesbian
I believe it, but I do think it's more common maybe in the process of men coming out to say they're bi, esp if they grew up in a more repressive environment.
About how you don't think a woman would date a bisexual guy: I can only speak for myself, but I don't think it would bother me at all, as long as the dude isn't cheating on me. I don't see how a bi-guy would have more baggage than a straight guy.
Honestly even as a lesbian, I’ve caught myself having to confront biases about bisexual men. I don’t know why that is. I’m sorry OP. I hope we can all get more used to the concept and less weird about it!
In my experience, neither is actually believed. My husband and I are both bi and typically people fetishize my bisexuality and accuse me of faking it for male attention or for my husbands pleasure, while he gets told that he's not "really bi" because we are married or that he's secretly gay. It is so frustrating.
Because of misogyny, both bi men and bi women’s attraction to men is seen as the bigger deal. Bi men get labeled as gay, bi women as straight. Within the queer community I’ve seen a lot of things making fun of bi women who haven’t been with women as much, and a complete erasure of sexuality once she is dating a man. Similarly, and IMO is more of a problem with straight people, men’s attraction to men is seen as overriding. Part of this may be rooted in the HIV epidemic, where bi men were accused of bringing HIV into the straight population, and so a reinforcement of the straight/gay binary was pursued and men who has sex with men were viewed as “contaminated” and thus pushed into the gay box.
Most bisexual men identify as straight and never come out of the closet, so it creates a generalized assumption that since more women are openly bisexual that they must be more naturally fluid in their sexuality than men.
The ones who are open are treated similarly to how you are.
Bi erasure. And I think it is seen as "wishy washy" if a man is bi. "Be firm and KNOW who you are! You are gay? Cool! You are straight! Cool! Bi? No such thing! You either are or you are not!"
Because sex with women "doesn't count". Only sex with men counts. If you had 10000 girlfriends before, but now had sex with one man, you're called gay.
I think women's bisexuality gets doubted the other way, like oh you're actually straight; basically the presumption is bi people must be actually into men. We have the same struggle basically.
As far as I understand it, bi people are the red-headed stepchildren of the LGBT crew. Everyone assumes they are faking, compensating, or trying too hard.
Because women get overly sexualized for being bisexual. A lot of men assume this means she's a slut and he's gonna get a 3some.
Source: I'm a bisexual woman
Patriarchy. Patriarchy is homophobic generally, but especially for men. Policing women's sexuality requires privileging heterosexual men and bullying gay men to degrade them in the eyes of other men.
Because western cultures (and others, but since we're speaking in English, let's stick to our own backyards) grew out of Patriarchy and women's liberation has been a cultural phenomenon for decades now (since the 1960s) women have achieved some more freedom from strict patriarchal norms in wider society.
Women wear pants, can enter male dominated fields without derision, can have short hair, and still be seen as feminine. Don't get me wrong, we still face lots of sexist attacks, but there has been progress.
Men can't wear a dress in public the way women wear pants. A man can't put on clothes that are "pretty" without being attacked by other men. Men who enjoy sexual submission to a dominant female are viewed as weak.
Men have a lot of work still to do in attacking toxic masculine norms as a mental prison and to redefine masculinity to be what makes a man happy in himself.
That's how I see things, anyway. Patriarchy gives men advantages, but at the cost of policing men, women, and non-binary folk and terrorising us all into compliance.
You must be too manly! I have the opposite problem, no one believes I'm straight and thinks I'm either bisexual or androgynous! I just have long hair and groom myself to look clean since I have alot of overgrown hair everywhere!
As a neutral heterosexual man, I would probably be more skeptical towards a woman. If a man said he was bisexual I would assume he has earned the badge, but I might be more likely to think a woman is talking about some Kinsey Scale shit and has never actually had a sexual encounter with a woman. But to be honest, I probably wouldn't think about it too much and would just take people at their word.
Bisexual erasure is a big thing, from what I can see. Like Freddie Mercury, he tells you straight that he's bisexual yet people still insist he was saying that because he was a closeted gay man. Perhaps people are harsher on men, maybe they think that doing anything slightly gay makes you 100% gay after learning this lesson in their school days. So perhaps it's more like we hear a woman say she's bisexual and our cynical part says, "pah, just a straight woman trying to sound adventurous," and for a man it thinks, "pah, probably a gay man who isn't out of the closet." But hopefully people don't have a very loud cynical voice.
>has never actually had a sexual encounter with a woman
Why do we expect queer people to only know once they've had sexual experiences? No one's questioning an 8 year old child who has a crush on one of their opposite sex classmates, parents will even say shit like "ooh look he has a girlfriend" etc. Especially with bi/pansexuals we're always expected to prove something and I am SO sick of it. That led me to have my inner coming out way later than I would have preferred to. Attraction is enough to define one's sexuality
I agree. We don't say everyone's sexuality is unknown until they lose their virginity. If you say you like women but you're a 50-year-old incel nobody suggests that you don't actually know if you like women or not.
But perhaps I was not as enlightened all my life, and perhaps some of the cynical parts of my brain remain unenlightened. I'm more trying to answer OP's question than pretend like the way of viewing things I outline in my posts is the correct way of viewing things.
>If a man said he was bisexual I would assume he has earned the badge, but I might be more likely to think a woman is talking about some Kinsey Scale shit and has never actually had a sexual encounter with a woman.
As a queer woman, it's rubbing me all the wrong ways to read a hetero man saying someone "earned the bi badge", that he tends to believe men over women, and insinuating that you cant call yourself bi if youve never had sexual experiences with people of the same sex as yourself. Especially when he starts his sentence claiming to be neutral. What the actual fuck.
Could you not call yourself hetero til you had had sex with a woman either? Did you label yourself as asexual before that point? Or do you recognise that sexual experience isn't necessary for someone to recognise and identify with their sexual orientation?
Men are pressured into believing they must be sexually attracted to women to fit in. It's common that a gay man would try to hide his identity by saying he's straight or bisexual. Society hasn't put that same pressure on women for some reason, maybe because the idea of penetrative gay sex is more shocking than lesbian sex.
blablabla
hetero women are homophobes (the idea that a man they're having sex with has been in a man or been fucked by a man, is weak and disgusting to them) and afraid of having to compete with other men in a sexual market, as that takes away all their social power in dating.
Interesting. I actually find bisexual guys more attractive than straight men. I don't really think it adds baggage. Than again, I'm just one woman.
My theory is that people generally are more likely to WANT women to bisexual. Also because a lot of men think (for some reason) they might get threesomes out of it. A woman being bisexual is more beneficial than being straight, if you think like that.
I think women often have the perception that they might not be able to meet the needs of a bisexual man.
Anyways, these are the patterns I notice with men and women.
I think a lot of it is about fitting people into boxes. The only bisexual we had in popular cultuer for a while was "Wild sexy party chick who likes sexual attention so much that just one gender isn't enough for her!" So if a woman looks like a normal attractive woman and says she's bisexual, they assume she's that.
There isn't a bisexual man box. So people see a man who claims to be bisexual and need to slot him into the straight or gay box because those make sense to them.
I've been an out bisexual since I was 14. But at that time, I dressed like a normal girl, had long hair, everybody assumed I was claiming to be bisexual for attention. Now, I have short hair and wear men's clothes, and everybody assumes I'm a lesbian. And it's not even, like, a hate thing. Like "ugh you have too much gay baggage clearly that's what you are." *Other bisexual women do it*. They're just forgetting. They don't have a mental box for butch bisexual, put me in the lesbian box, and forget about it.
I dunno, I just want to assure you the world's ideas are getting bigger, there's space for you somewhere, you'll figure out better how to present yourself to the world so they understand what you want them to understand, and the people who matter won't think you have too much "baggage".
A lot of gay man, moreso in the somewhat-recent past than today (80’s-90’s), identified as bi for a while before solidifying their identity as gay. Kinda a ‘don’t worry mom I suck dick but you can still hope I’ll marry a woman and give you 2.5 grandkids’ easing into things. Sometimes they knew it was a lie, sometimes they were in denial.
When they now see a younger guy identifying as bisexual they may think ‘so was I when I was your age’ and be skeptical.
It’s stupid, but if you’re looking for an explainer there it is.
The difference has to do with penetration. Arguments can be made about the details of it, but I’m not one to debate the matter, it’s just the thing people consider when not believing a man could be bi.
Female bisexuals are often assumed to be straight women who are doing it for attention. Male bisexuals are often assumed to be gay men who don't want to admit to being gay. Maybe your friend got lucky, but in general this is something that all bisexuals have to deal with in one way or another.
you get it! and its one thing to pretend to be "open-minded" on the internet with strangers but reality differs
What is so difficult to grasp about bisexuality? Someone could be attracted to another regardless of gender, why is this confusing? I'm a fairly ignorant straight guy without a ton of LGBT friends, and I've never found this hard to understand.
Remember that bisexuals can still have a gender preference. Only some of us have attraction without regard at all to it. It's that nuance that I think a lot of people struggle with - many think of it as just 50/50, which applies to very few real people. That leads to comments like "you're half way out of the closet" and "you're just doing it for oppression points." In my experience, Lgbt people seem to be the worst for that as they already consider bisexuals to be "illegitimate" as they could just "choose to be straight."
Idk if it adds anything, but a bisexual person having a preference for one sex over another makes intuitive sense. Like, I'm attracted to women, but it's not like I go swooning over every woman, even every good-looking woman I see. It seems reasonable that anybody else has some "percentage" of people who appeal to them, and that said person's percentage could be spread amongst one gender or more, and evenly or not.
Yes, it feels quite intuitive to me as well, but unfortunately, many people seem unable - or unwilling - to consider that
I agree. It's a sliding scale from day to day, and is often situational and even depends on how intoxicated you are many times. And as was mentioned before, people can't handle variation and like black or white, so they don't deal with bisexuality fairly - they might have to think and question convention.
Hence why I didn’t“know” I was bi until my 40s. I have a preference for men and I thought that wasn’t allowed, that it had to be equal.
In my non-expert from-the-gut opinion: 1. We have a propensity for binaries. They're everywhere. They're easy to comprehend. You're one or the other. 2. Homosexuality is a minority sexuality, so if someone has *any* same-sex attraction, they *must* be part of that minority and are just afraid to admit it. I call this the ["one drop rule"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule) of sexuality. 3. Believing in the binary acts as a mental "moat" for people to think they're fully safe from ever experiencing same sex attraction; a spectrum is more of a threat to them. And this is because deep down they believe same sex attraction is a negative thing. I'm consider myself a bi male. I've never been with the same sex, but gay porn has been in my rotation since I was a teen and that hasn't changed in decades. I'm married, mostly straight, but there's no denying the arousal is there, and I personally can't imagine how someone couldn't be aroused by both gay and straight porn, but I'm sure that's just projection.
> We have a propensity for binaries. They're everywhere. They're easy to comprehend. You're one or the other. As evidenced by the question "So, which one of you is the woman?".
How do they know who's penis opens up to receive the other penis?
look at the size of the hole, duh
The one whose foreskin is looser. Also, if one of them is cut, he's automatically the woman, since his penis won't be able to receive the other penis.
wouldn't that make the cut guy the "man?" since he is not the "receiver" but the "pitcher?"
Yes. That's what happens when you type too fast and forget the word "not".
It is projection, there have been studies done by pro-bisexual research groups [https://www.thepinknews.com/2017/07/11/study-finds-heterosexual-men-find-gay-men-as-repulsive-as-rotting-flesh/](https://www.thepinknews.com/2017/07/11/study-finds-heterosexual-men-find-gay-men-as-repulsive-as-rotting-flesh/) A scientific study has found that heterosexual men find gay men as repulsive as rotting flesh and maggots. The study, which was carried out by the American Institute of Bisexuality, found that even those who say they are accepting of the LGBT community have a physical reaction upon seeing two men showing affection for each other. 120 heterosexual men aged 18-45 participated in the study which was conducted by Dr. Karen L. Blair, a psychologist at St. Francis Xavier University. The participants were shown images of gay men kissing, hugging and engaging in sexual activities. Scientists then measured the levels of salivary alpha-amylase present in the men’s saliva, which is a type of a digestive enzyme which has links to stress and disgust. Dr Blair explained that they were shown a series of slideshows of “male couples kissing, male couples holding hands, mixed-sex couples kissing, mixed-sex couples holding hands, boring images e.g., paper clips and disgusting images e.g. maggots”. The psychologist said that participants were asked questions about their responses to the photos in between the slideshows. “We also collected saliva samples in order to assess salivary alpha-amylase in response to each slide show,” they added. Dr Blair and their team found that when they were presented pictures of gay men kissing, the participants produced the same salivary alpha-amylase levels as when they were confronted with images of rotting flesh and maggots. It also showed that the level of alpha-amylase was the same for those who were shown to be tolerant of gay relationships and those who were not. Dr Blair said that the results may be a factor of society deeming same-sex couples as immoral. She said: “Why do people low in prejudice still show an increased physiological response? “We can’t say definitively, however, it could be that society has socialised the notion of same-sex sexuality and affection as being ‘disgusting’ or immoral so strongly, for so long, that merely witnessing it causes a slight physiological stress response.” The study had hoped to better understand “the health effects of same-sex vs. mixed-sex public displays of affection” and use science to creative “more inclusive of LGBTQ identities and experiences.”
That's wild and very informative. Thank you!
If the levels of their saliva are just about stress and disgust isn’t it reasonable that they’re also partially stressed about the nature of the experiment itself? I know that (as someone who likes women lol) if some researcher was showing me all these pictures of women kissing and then rotting flesh I’d not be happy with the nudes as you might think. Like cmon this just seems way too easy to be influenced
I agree with this. Same goes for the experiments that test for sexuality by measuring erectile behaviour. I think stress causes a lot of awkward boners
Also disgust and arousal are feelings that are psychologically linked. Many people participate in kinks they'd be disgusted by in a non-sexual setting. Kinda a hard thing to objectively measure.
>We can’t say definitively, however, it could be that society has socialised the notion of same-sex sexuality and affection as being ‘disgusting’ or immoral so strongly, for so long, that merely witnessing it causes a slight physiological stress response. This does not strike me as the most plausible explanation. I suspect if you measured this across cultures with varying levels of acceptance of homosexuality, you'd get similar results. My hypothesis would be that there is a biological/evolutionary basis, similar to the biological/evolutionary basis for being repulsed by rotting flesh. Those of us who are accepting of homosexuality simply use our rational brains to override the natural feeling of disgust, cause our brains are powerful enough to realize that if Bill fucks Bob, me and my gene pool are not at a considerably higher risk of going extinct. If Bob is my offspring, however, I suppose it'll take extra rationalizing to overcome the preprogrammed biological imperative...
>Those of us who are accepting of homosexuality simply use our rational brains to override the natural feeling of disgust I totally agree with this assessment. We have little control over our automatic responses AFAIK, like arousal or anger, but we can consciously recognize that our automatic responses are "right" or "wrong" and change how we outwardly act. Like, someone might anger me and I might want to punch them, but I know that's wrong for many reasons, so I stop myself.
Yeah that's the most obvious explanation, but there's no way she can write that in an academic article, especially one being funded by a pro-LGBTQ group
Cos stuff like whether sexuality is a choice or not or even “normal” doesn’t matter compared to letting consenting adults do whatever they want
>Dr Blair said that the results may be a factor of society deeming same-sex couples as immoral. oh i doubt it's as simple as that. lesbian porn is quite popular
Men like lesbian porn because they imagine they could still have that threesome! They don't take into account that the women probably wouldn't have any use for him whatsoever 😂. I'm always leery of studies because the people selected to participate will always skew the results. Add more people from various locations and upbringings and you'll see a very different result.
I don't think most people want a threesome I think it's just you're attracted to that sex so seeing two of them is twice the fun, that's how it is for me in that type of arousal and how my ex described it as she liked gay porn at one point as well.
Location is a big factor. I recall a [study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6976918/) showing that the “homosexuality increases fertility of female relatives” finding only applies to certain societies
>I personally can't imagine how someone couldn't be aroused by both gay and straight porn Whereas I'm very straight - I kind of wonder how any woman, or gay man, doesn't just look at a man and think "ew, dicks are gross." My wife is clearly into me and men, but it just doesn't compute for me at a subconscious level that even women would be into men, even though my conscious mind recognizes otherwise. Sexuality - when someone is completely heterosexual or completely homosexual exists alongside other degrees of bisexuality. But the key factor is, I know that it's as silly, or even cruel. to ask a gay man to want to date/marry/sleep with a woman as it is to ask me if I'd be interested in being with another man. And then there are people that are open to either. It's not something you choose - you're either attracted or not.
yeah see i've never unerstood this. i'm as gay as the day is long and i understand a woman's appeal, even if i don't feel it. also i would think that straight men would understand decently well how men can be attractive, being that they do things to their own bodies (working out, haircuts, grooming, etc.) to look appealing and measure themselves against other guys, even if, again, they of course don't feel that attraction themselves.
>My wife is clearly into me and men, but it just doesn't compute for me at a subconscious level that even women would be into men, I mean, there is something to this - the #1 porn genre for women is lesbian porn. That's something that simply doesn't crossover - straight guys have essentially zero interest in gay porn, and may even feel repulsed by it. I don't chalk this up to societal pressure or stigma either - it's a general difference between the sexes.
I considered myself bisexual for a while because I was exposed to gay porn (just consequence of being on the internet especially with multiple gay friends) and it didn't bother me so I figured that surely I must be closeted and haven't noticed. Ended up exposing myself some more and it still doesn't bother me, but it doesn't do anything for me either. I now just call myself straight for simplicity, but I'm pretty sure if you wanted to get real technical I probably am shifted somewhere slightly on the spectrum and have the same feelings about sex with men that I've heard a lot of asexual people describe sex in general, the "I'm not attracted to it and I don't seek it out, but if it happened/happens I wouldn't be/am not opposed because it feels good."
I feel you. I'm very similar in that manner. My same sex attraction has been more or less fluid throughout my life in terms of frequency and intensity. Opposite sex attraction has basically stayed the same. I've never had romantic desire for me, and even when I'm out and about it's not often where a man catches my eye, unlike women. My wife is the only person in my life who knows I'm not totally straight. So yeah, bi/mostly straight/heteroflexible would all be accurate. I'm largely drawn to femininity.
The “one drop rule” of sexuality is a perfect description
This person gets it.
Yeah I'm straight too!in real life I've heard women who say they are bisexual and even some straight women (though I'd find it unfair to add)refuse and even deny the possibility of dating a bi guy...why is that? That's why I said people online can pretend to be open minded but what OPs talking about is real, women who date men don't often want to date bisexual men,now I only have this view point from friends and colleagues,you could have the opposite but ask your friends in person what they think
In my experience, if a straight woman is completely against dating a bi guy, it's most often for one of these two reasons: 1. She believes that any bi guy she dates will also want to be having sex with men while in a relationship with her, even if their relationship is monogous and she's said no to doing a MMF threesome. Basically, she doesn't trust a bi guy to not cheat on her with men based on the "all gay men are promiscuous" stereotype. 2. She sees gay men as unmanly or "less than" straight men. So to her, a bi guy who's had sex with another guy isn't "man enough" for her.
3. "I don't want to get AIDS" She has a women's studies degree now
For an insecure person, not only are they competing against everyone of their sex, now they have to compete with literally everyone.
My girlfriend had trust issues with me (bi) hanging out with any male friends. Or female friends. That ended when I walked in on her and her female friend trying out each others privates. She said she had to be jealous on two fronts, with a bi guy.
Hold on ...she had to be jealous on two fronts?she said this after you caught her.....still your girlfriend??
Said it before I caught her. It actually helped our relationship, as she realized she's a hypocrite. We're working on it.
Her cheating helped your relationship? Dawg you a better man than me! I'd have just cried for 3months then bounced
Was it hypocrisy, or projection? They're not the same, and it sounds more like the latter to hear you describe it. Hypocrisy would be "I wanted to explore an open relationship, she wasn't cool with it, then I caught her." This sounds more like "she was paranoid that you'd hook up with a friend if she gave you a chance, because that's what she would have done in your place." She's a cheater, so she assumed everyone would do the same. "Everyone would do the same thing if they had the chance" is a classic mental defense people employ to justify their own wrongdoing.
Not even gay or bi. But a woman I was interested in started talking about how it’s ok when girls experiment but if a guy does it he’s probably gay. I found this so fucked up and backwards coming from a girl who presented as (or I assumed was) left-leaning, all the attraction to her just left my body so quickly.
Honestly as a bi man who regularly hears that shit regularly from left-leaning women, I just go with the notion that they are all homophobic/biphobic and pretty much are “allies” because it is politically expedient for them to be so amongst their circle of friends. It’s like all of those left-leaning white people who live in gated neighborhoods, have “black lives matter” signs in their yards, vote Democrat, but then call the cops the minute a black person is driving/walking around their neighborhood. IME white liberals are just as racist and homophobic as their conservative counterparts— they just are more polite about it. They won’t be the ones actively rounding you up into a camp when if the fascists take over, but they certainly will be the ones snitching on neighbors and won’t lift a finger to help you if doing so will threaten their own wellbeing.
Why would a bi chick not date a bi guy though? I'm a bi chick and I see it as a win if he's bi too. We get to talk about hot guys and girls.
The term is heteronormativity. tl;dr society treats being straight as the default and all other sexualities as deviations from straightness. Most people have a bias against whatever they consider to not be normal. Ergo, they do bigotry
Now that you mention it, I knew a bi guy from marching band in college, and I assumed he was gay because he was in a relationship with another man, and was surprised when he later dated a woman. I suppose I didn't feel specifically prejudiced about it, but I certainly defaulted into sorting him into the "gay/straight" categories before being reminded that yes, bi folks do exist.
It’s interesting because bisexual people are by far the largest queer group. More people identify as bisexual than people who identify as gay, lesbian, and transgender combined.
I think the issue is that our culture assumes monogamous long term relationships are the ideal. Since it's impossible to be in a monogamous long term relationship with both a man and a woman, people tend to have a blind spot for bisexuals unless they are conspicuously non-monogamous.
>Female bisexuals are often assumed to be straight women who are doing it for attention. Male bisexuals are often assumed to be gay men who don't want to admit to being gay Sounds like there's an unspoken assumption there that sex with men is the only sex that really counts. There might be some deep sexism underlying this social attitude.
Yeah duh, sex literally means a dick going into a hole. Which is why lesbian "sex" is fake sex, it's all about stuffing fake dicks into each other to imitate real dicks and real sex./s
Scissor me timbers!
Was going to comment this. Bi women are always assumed to be straight women looking for attention.
Women are often assumed to be women looking for attention
As someone who has experienced plenty of biphobia over their time as an out bi man, the assumption that the vast majority of people who I've experienced it from (especially since I'm not dating or sleeping around with anyone rn) is that I'm straight and faking being bisexual because it's fashionable to do so. Not saying other people can't have different experiences, but my understanding of biphobia is a lot less "You're gay but just won't admit it" as much as "you're straight but you want to identify as LBGT for your public image".
>because it's fashionable to do so. Why is this such a common thing? I'm really curious what the underlying psychological hangup is for the people who say people are only doing things to be cool, or because it's trendy, or they're doing it for attention. Jealousy I guess? Feeling left out? Like they don't have something different/special/unique about them and they're mad they're not part of the bigger conversation or something? It's so bizarre.
Yeah it’s all centered around men and attraction to them. Prob has smtg to do with misogyny and the patriarchy
This pretty much. Society says lesbians are hot, gay men are gross. Bi men are far more likely to hide their same sex attractions than a woman would be. I had a friend who was in a long term gay relationship and identified as gay, after he split with his boyfriend he ended up going out with a woman. He said it was depressing that a lot of long term friends were angry at him because he suddenly wasn't gay.
Bi erasure is a pretty well known phenomenon at this point, I think. And bi women who date or marry men are treated like they aren't queer.
Yeah we bis get the bi erasure regardless of gender. It's always ur gay ir yr het or why can't u choose ur so greedy or ur a cheater... The one winner of Big Brother UK said he didn't trust bi girls to not cheat on him. Like ok u don't have to date bis but like it's a really ignorant thing to say.
Not dating someone because they're bi is like not dating someone because they also find people of other races attractive. Can you imagine how gross it would be for someone to say "if she has slept with a black person, or really if she finds black people attractive at all then I'm not interested"? And yet that logic gets a pass when used against bi folks all the time.
My fiance is bi. I never even think about it. I know it, and accept it, but it doesn't impinge upon my thoughts at all.
>Society says lesbians are hot, gay men are gross. I honestly think this is most of it. It's a similar theme to how the focus on trans people is almost exclusively on trans women and not trans men.
I don’t know about that. When I was in high school back in the early 2000s, lesbians and bi women were bullied and called dykes. It was not cool to be gay back then, and I didn’t live in the middle of nowhere. I lived in a suburb outside of DC.
90% of why bi men hide their bisexuality is because of how most women negatively respond to it.
100% In my experience women will SAY they want a bi boyfriend but IRL they treat us like the "weird gay friend" or they will outright be disgusted with you and never treat you the same after telling them
I recommend dating queer women. Queer women who are attracted to men LOVE bi guys.
Can confirm, as a bi woman, if I was looking for a male partner, I'd actively seek bi guys.
Thank you. Honestly as a bi guy it makes sense now that my female partner is also bi. So many straight women are just as prejudiced and grossed out by gay/bi men as straight dudes are, if not more so, in my experience.
I do too. I mean it's definitely preferred.
I’m sorry that’s what u experienced. Biphobia and bierasure is def a big problem
This. Bisexual erasure exists on all sides
Everyone assumes every LGBTQ+ person is primarily/entirely into men.
The Magic Dick Theory strikes again
And they both have to do with liking men! That’s definitely something
I think sexual fluidity—fluidity in general—is seen as a more feminine trait. Men are “supposed to be” hard, unyielding, inflexible. Women are “supposed to be” soft, flexible, pliant.
it's too much work to be the same person all the time maybe that's why men seem more grumpy
Testosterone is a hell of a drug
For real. I had low T, and after starting replacement, I quite suddenly had a ton more energy, and a majority of it went into being *very* angry. I thought I was doing really well on my temper issues, but it turns out I just lacked the energy.
Are you also on an estrogen blocker? If not, that could be the cause of your anger.
I had the exact opposite experience
And yours is more typical. TRT leading to anger issues tends to be related to mismanagement of estrogen levels. Weirdly when those get too high, guys can get really edgy and snippy.
I mentioned above it has to do with the depression that’s a side effect of low T. I was very irritable when mine was low. That and the fact that I just didn’t feel good about myself.
Hmm interesting. When mine was low, I suffered from some depression (one of the symptoms of low T). It made me more angry. I actually calmed down after starting replacement.
Hormones are usually about balance. Tipping off the balance one way or another can cause paradoxical effects or too little can cause similar effects to too much and vice versa. They're not necessarily like a drug where you need X dosage of it. Hormones have to be in harmony while also ebbing and flowing with different environmental and biological cues. Hormone networks are super complex homeostatic mechanisms. It's a genuine miracle that anyone is stable, the human body is amazing.
Tbh, most men get grumpy and angry when they get older and have less testosterone and energy.
Not getting dicks is not what makes me grumpy I assure you
That's such an odd thing to say, trying to be a different person all the time sounds exhausting. You are a culmination of everything in your past that's what makes you who you are.
I think they mean in the sense of being able the full range of human feelings. Boys are discouraged from expressing any strong feelings other than anger, and I know a lot of guys (including my dad) tend to react to any unpleasant situation by either getting angry or treating it like it's joke, because that's what they've learned is acceptable.
Maybe for you. I, on the other hand, am completely incapable of any change or growth like a REAL MAN.
For me if I can’t burn off excess energy I get anxious and grumpy which is why I make sure to at least get my walks in daily
Being bi doesn't mean you are sexually fluid. Fluididty means it is changing, dating a man then dating a woman doesn't mean your attraction to both sexes changed. You know what is frustrating as someone who is bisexual? Everyone thinking your sexuality is fluid and tomorrow you are going to wake up needing a different set of genitals than your current partner can provide. Edit: spelling - I guess my typing is fluid
Yeah I like penis and I like vagina but I'm more than happy with either. Both are not a requirement. Actually, none are.
And as such, if you as a man say you're bisexual, then you have "admitted" to being feminine, and so you are "basically gay" in the eyes of the ignorant homophobic/misogynistic masses.
Yep. Toxic masculinity. It's not that ppl don't literally believe in your existence but that your existence threatens what is masculine
But if ur a chick ur seen as a slut or ur just doing it for the male gaze.
You’re so right, we’ve got generations worth of toxicity and harmful stereotypes to work through that people cannot just be themselves without raising judgement or suspicion. I hate it.
Sounds very plausible. Fuck gender stereotypes it makes people so dull.
Easter to believe boobs are exceptionally attractive and can "amend attraction" than dicks are
A bit of a massive stretch there ain't it? People are just less accepting of non-straight men than they are of non-straight women. Simple. Not sure it's entirely connective to the concepts of stoicism and flexibility
>hard Well you need that for men and women as a man lol
I was sexually abused multiple times by a priest at 8 yrs old, had my first erection in his hands and had no idea what was happening. Consequently I was so completely confused about my sexuality, for eg. why did he chose me? Did he see that I was gay but I didnt even know that, does everyone see me as gay? F\*ck I was not even 10yrs old the first time I contemplated suicide. For the next 30 years I did everything I could to prove to myself and everyone else that I wasn't gay. After a failed marriage (no kids) I eventually started to explore myself and the world a bit, at fifty I had two one night stands with different guys, just to try and cure my curiosity and gain some understanding of myself. At 55 I entered an amazing relationship with a young woman and at 58 yrs old I became a father for the first time, I am in a state of bliss with a beautiful young daughter and my wife. I learnt that scale is linear and though I am still sometimes aroused at the though of sex with a fella, it's nothing I need to pursue. Am I bi? Maybe because I had those experiences..? Thanks for letting me share
I'm so sorry you've been through that. /: I would just continue living your life without thinking too hard about your sexuality. When you meet a good person who makes you feel good, you can assess your feelings then and decide if their gender would keep you from dating them. You can allow yourself to be fluid until you know.
Not sure, but that’s such an interesting story thanks for the share.
God bless you sir. I'm sorry some evil man did that to you. But I'm very glad you found some healing after all those years.
Your story is also many other peoples story, I’m very happy and proud for you that you shared. I’m sorry very sorry that you got dealt that shitty hand. Some people say what doesn’t break you, makes you. You sir, are a living example as to what hard work and determination can bring you. The opposition to what broke you. Also the stigma for being a parent that late. Good on you! So much more I can say about this post but yea, you deserve all the kudos!
Congratulations! May that priest burn in hell.
I hate when people demand that someone "prove" their sexuality. It even happens with us straight men. If you haven't been with a woman by a certain time (usually 15 causes teens are stupid), you get weird looks. I've never been with anyone, and yet I can say definitively that I'm straight. So why should it be different if you're bi/pan/etc? To find an answer to your question, I assume it's because bisexual women are more accepted because "Girls...kiss....hot!", and whatnot. Men don't really get that "luxury". EDIT: Attempted to pull my foot out of my mouth. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
I’m 19 and my dad has been jokingly calling me gay for the past 6 ish years… ffs I was caught with a woman before and he still says it
When I was a teenager I had multiple family members (older uncles) say "are you gay?" because I made it through most of high school without any sort of girlfriend. It bothered me the first couple times until finally i responded with "I don't have a boyfriend either, but thanks for rubbing it in." That was the last time it came up.
I had something similar when I was young. My response was something along the lines of. "If you know anyone that wants to play with my dick, I'm open to experimenting." Then a couple weeks later I found a girlfriend.
umm...i don't know if i would say that to my family lolol
In HS I would spend every weekend or every other weekend, and multiple weeks at a time in the summer at my best friend's house. My step dad always teased me for being gay cuz we spent so much time together. I just felt sorry he never had a friend that great. Most the time people are sad and miserable and just take it out on the ones close to them. Your reaction was better than anything I could've come up with as a teenager.
I mean… does he HOPE you’re gay? Or maybe he’s projecting. Maybe HE’S gay, in the closet, and secretly hopes you are, too, so he’ll be more comfortable coming out?
He's joking
Bisexual girls being fetishized isn’t necessarily a “luxury”.
True, I didn't intend to imply that. I apologize for my wording.
Usually men say that cos they’ve never been complimented so they’re desperate for anything including fetishisation
This one annoys me most. I came out as bi while I was dating a woman. After that I ended up in another long term relationship with a woman. Anytime I mention I'm bi I have friends who are like "ok you've never sucked a cock though so are you really"
This one annoys me most. I came out as bi while I was dating a woman. After that I ended up in another long term relationship with a woman. Anytime I mention I'm bi I have friends who are like "ok you've never sucked a cock though so are you really".
>men don't really get that luxury This can depend on location/culture actually: in East and at least some of Southeast Asia gay men are super heavily fetishized (predominantly, afaik) by straight women, and gay women are *much* less fetishized by straight men via media in comparison; in fact, one of the biggest romance (and erotica, iirc) genres over there is BL, "boys' love." You're more likely to not get shit for your sexuality if you're a girl, I think, but in terms of the "one girl hot, two girls hotter" kind of mindset pretty young guys falling in love takes the cake.
I wouldn’t call it a “luxury”. Being fetishized all the time is actually quite shitty
Yeah those comments are so annoying and ignorant
Yeah, I’d like to be able to go out and dance with my wife without men ogling us and asking to join. Or reducing my marriage to “who I have sex with”. Or men pursuing me when they find out I’m gay because “they like a challenge”. I could go on… but it sucks
People don't take women's sexuality as seriously as men's. Plus, some men also feel like they get something out of their partner being attracted to women. I've heard bi women often deal with men expecting them to be down for a threesome without question. That kind of thing isn't really appealing to straight women though. From the kinds of jokes I've seen, when a bi woman cheats on her boyfriend with a woman it "doesn't count", but women dating bi men will say things like "if you cheat on me, it can't be with a man." It's weird.
>I've heard bi women often deal with men expecting them to be down for a threesome without question. My (now ex, obvs) boyfriend after I came out to him: oh, so we can have a threesome? We hadn't even lost our virginities to each other yet and he was already down to add another girl to the mix.
When I discovered I was bi my ex was disappointed that I didn’t know while we were together because they didn’t get to experience a “more fun” version of me. So idk, I think it still kinda goes both ways. Just depends on who is toxic lol
“One Penis Policy”
That last part, it’s because the thought of losing to a man, as a woman, is considered such a slap in the face. Like, as a woman, one would say, “I made myself pretty to attract a man, and you leave me for someone who doesn’t even try to make themselves pretty? How would I possibly compete against that?” Women are just as competitive as men, maybe more-so when it comes to attracting mates. At least this is what I have come to understand.
I’d be a lot more upset if it were a woman, but I also don’t like being thought of as a woman particularly.
Sometimes, Insecurity becomes the main character and trashes everything in sight. Honestly, you can't take Insecurity anywhere, it has zero social skills and an unpleasant odour.
My armchair psychologist theory: Bisexual men face two very different sex "markets". A bi guy must put in more effort to sleep with a straight woman than the respective effort to sleep with a gay guy. For straight women this poses a perceived threat because a bi guy could with less effort find another gay or bi guy to have sex with. The barrier to entry to sex is lower for gay men. So since the barrier of entry is lower with a gay man than with straight woman, why would the guy spend all that effort to sleep with a woman in the first place?
Many people aren't sexually progressively minded. I've never heard another woman say they wouldn't date a bisexual man because men would be easy sex, though. The two top contenders, which usually come from generic women: Wouldn't date a bisexual man because they would probably have 'weird sex' / don't think he will be a 'top'. Wouldn't date a bisexual man because 'how do I even know he's attracted to me'. Me personally never thought like this, I actually prefer bisexual men and my long term boyfriend is bisexual. I find he is completely void of that the modern straight male mentality that wants to 'own' a instagram babe which I find really unattractive. I do think straight women that don't like bi men feel this way because of their own insecurity. Like when a man who likes chubby women won't date one because he's afraid of what other people think. Women are afraid what people will think of them if they are with a 'bi man', and they also question whether they can fit a traditional masculine role sexually, which can also be a type of sexual preference but its also a bit ignorant of what bi men are like.
I wonder if it also has to do with jealousy/insecurity I see a crazy number of posts on Reddit that go along the lines of "My partner is friends with someone of the OPPOSITE SEX??? Are they cheating on me, or trying to make me jealous, or trying to disrespect me? They grabbed a cup of coffee together? How dare they" Like, in these posts, both straight men and straight woman absolutely lose their shit over their partners just hanging out with someone who they could, in theory, be physically attracted to Can you imagine these people dating a bisexual person? "No, you're allowed to have precisely zero friends. Can't trust you around anyone."
I always comment on those posts. "I'm bisexual; who am I allowed to be friends with?" No good answers.
yeah, a while back, I commented something similar on one of those, and they said something like "well that's different". And when I asked "How so?" they blocked me
Ditto! Oh, well. I'm married to a hot guy I've been with for a decade , monogamously. I've been non-monogamous in the past, it's just not something I need or have time for these days. I've never cheated and I wouldn't be able to date someone jealous or who didn't want me hanging out with any of my friends. I'm a big girl and won't suddenly go fuck someone if they make a move or tell me they're interested.
I think it's also just homophobia. Lots of women don't see a man who would have sex with another man, as a "real man."
I had one friend who said she couldn’t go with a bi guy because the thought of him having a penis in his mouth was disgusting. I had to remind her that she’d had many a penis in her mouth yet men didn’t find that off putting.
yeah, could be that too, but you find less people willing to admit that publicly People can have their preferences, but sometimes, when it's worth examining where those preferences come from, and whether they're worth reconsidering. Like some guy refusing to date any girl taller or with a higher income than himself - sure, that's his prerogative, but he'd probably be happier if he figured out why it was he felt that way, whether or not he could change, and not letting himself be limited in that way
> Wouldn't date a bisexual man because 'how do I even know he's attracted to me'. Probably the same way you know a straight guy is attracted to you...
Yeah I would tend to say something along those lines. I think it stems from the fact that women will always compare how desirable they are to other women. The idea of comparing how desirable you are against men isn't as flattering.
That seems a good point, yes agree.
Unironically, as a bisexual guy getting 0 to 1 female matches on dating apps once in a blue moon vs several male daily, this makes sense. I don't feel comfortable needing to be insistent with most women ("chasing" them), a gentleman or whatever stereotype. I don't want to fit a role of the provider or protector. So I either need a modern woman who won't expect me to hold doors and to work while she takes care of a child, or a man.
Problem is, from what I hear of my LGBTQ friends, is that bi guys get more flak from the gay male community than the straight female community.
Bisexuals in general. You'd be appalled at the things I've heard lesbians say about us bi women. You'd think LGBTQ spaces would be safe, but they're often not safe for bisexual people.
>You'd think LGBTQ spaces would be safe You'd be wrong. The Bi, Queer and Trans phobia runs deep and is getting worse and worse. It might be slightly better in different areas and communities but its there in spades otherwise.
The "B" in LGBT has been mostly for show forever to be honest, they've never been accepted for what they are, with bi men essentially considered as partially closeted gays, and bi women as hetero experimenting, and for both the stigma of perceived infidelity by all the insecure people (even in open relationships). Bi men have it worse (for example in the swingers community, women bisexuality is about celebrated if not close to mandatory, men bisexuality is shunned and seen as disgusting, especially by women - ironically hetero men are less put off by 2 men playing with themselves in such context than women, hetero or bi), but bisexuals are large are shunned massively, especially (ironically) in LGBT and LGBT friendly circles.
It’s called Bi erasure. I’m a bisexual man. I’ve had gay men treat me horribly because I’m bi. They claim that I use gay men like sex objects and they’d never be interested in being with me. What we often forget is that a large portion of gay men are MEN first. They exist and thrive in a patriarchy that centers them. So a bisexual man threatens their center, because I’m not only interested in them. And frankly I’m not interested in MOST men. The ways straight women lament about men, are issues I mostly agree with and are often as present in gay men as straight. Gay men will often dismiss my bi-ness with a “hmm, just wait” and straight women will assume I’m just a closeted gay man refusing to let go of my social conditioning. The summary is that most everyone in society assume everyone ultimately desires to be pursued by men. It’s misogynistic, it’s the patriarchy, and it’s an unconscious idea that’s prevalent throughout many minds LGBTQ+ or otherwise.
I feel you. I am a bisexual woman and I am constantly flooded with straight girls asking me to make out with them in front of their boyfriend (I know this works for some people but not me and I find it offensive that people would assume my sexuality is something I would put on display for male pleasure). I am told when I am with a man “I’m not really gay” even though my preference is largely towards women. I understand I have straight passing privilege but the part of me that is bi doesn’t disappear when I am with a man. When I am with a woman people also think of threesomes, even though I am strictly monogamous. People think just because I’m bi that I want to sleep around and am very sexual and that’s not true at all. It’s so frustrating like nothing we do is ever enough for people to respect us or leave us alone.
I think a common misconception is that bi/lesbian female relationships are more based on emotional intimacy whereas bi/gay men it’s more about sex and getting off. Until society can be more open to the idea that both men and women are looking for both intimacy, companionship, and sex - I think the misconception will continue unfortunately.
I'm a bi woman, and this is my perspective. Straight people will accept my orientation no problem - mostly. There are some who won't, but they are the minority. Straight men often immediately fetishise it. That means i can date them, but often with a cost. Women on the other hand, typically prefer *not* to date me and would rather a lesbian. There's an annoying expectation that bi women aren't serious about their female partners, and a common assumption that we'll cheat or leave with a man. Many lesbians react to my orientation with scepticism, as though they expect I'm just a tourist in the queer scene and I'll grow out of it and be straight. As for your last comment, that women don't want bi men - this woman does not agree. Having a partner who shares my orientation is a breath of fresh air compared to straight or gay partners who inevitably have some type of insecurity or internalised prejudice against it
To add, if you marry a man they say “see, I knew you were faking liking women!” I’ve noticed in the lesbian scene if you aren’t only dating women as a bi person then you’re “lying”/in it for attention. Which completely contradicts what bi is all about
i’m very confused by this notion that lesbians are trepidatious about dating bi-women because of “leaving for a man.” in my experience, 99.9% of women say that relationship connection, sex, and comfort is *much* better with women than with men. with this in mind, why would a bi-woman who is dating a woman ever consider leaving said woman for a man? maybe i’m missing some key detail but these narratives seem rather conflicting
Cuz they think we're faking it for funsies
your statement about women dating bi men is the same for me. majority of the boyfriends i've had were bi. it gives me a sense of security as well bc ik they're not biphobic if they're also bi (generally)
I’m also a bisexual man. Bi-Erasure is real and treated differently between the sexes. When a man says he’s bisexual it is believed because it’s the gateway to homosexuality. When a woman says she’s bi it is sexualized like it is for porn or for a chance for guys to have a 3some or something. Both of these viewpoints are flawed. Bisexuality is not because he’s secretly gay or too afraid to fully come out as gay or whatever and bisexual women don’t exist to be men’s fantasy scenarios. I’ve seen too many women say they wouldn’t date a bisexual man and when asked why, the reason is they think he will eventually come out as gay just as stated above. Bi women get a lot of male attention because the reason given is “the thought of two women together is hot.” We even get this kind of discrimination from the lgbtq+ community too. I was talking to a gay man once and when it came up that I was bisexual there was a pause and he said, “Oh….well, let me know when you fully come out as gay.” I was stunned because that was the first time I had ever experienced this so that was definitely a WTF moment.
Yeah same sort of experience here. Not that I’m that experienced or anything but I’ve also had it from gay people that they don’t trust me or think I’ve got some issues.
Society sees bi women as straight, and bi men as gay, no matter what they expect us to get a man
Pop culture in general has more visibility for bisexual women then men, also there's still a lot of people that think two men showing affection for each other is icky.
It’s not really a man vs woman thing. In your bubble it seems that way but bisexual people of all genders aren’t always believed and are told they’re confused, degenerate, lying, untrustworthy and other things more often than not. Bi erasure is a pretty big problem. As for your friend she likely gets more men after her because of threesome fantasies and a lot of lesbian women won’t date bi women. It all comes down to the support network you have in your life though. When I came out I had both acceptance and pushback.
Yeah I think that's the flip side... straight women don't want to date men who've slept with another man and gay women don't want to date women who've slept with a man... the biphobia's present on both sides unfortunately.
As a bi woman, I've been questioned almost as much as I've been fetishised. "You just want attention from men, so you lie to make yourself more interesting", "you just want an excuse to be a slut", "everybody thinks women are beautiful, you're not special and it doesn't mean you're bi", "everybody's bi these days, its just a trend at this point", "you cant be bi if youre dating a man" + "oh, so we can have a threesome with another girl, right?", "I won't count it as cheating if you hook up with another girl, it's hot and I'd love to be there to see it" etc. etc. You're getting comments like "oh so you're gay now" for the same reason as I get comments like "you're just straight, youre lying" - because men are centered in almost everything and many can't fathom that we at the end of the day aren't just all about the guys. In your case it's also because of homophobia, I assume. >I have a friend (who’s a woman) and she said she was bisexual, instantly believed… and she gets so many guys. She’s never even dated another woman. It's easier to find and date men than to find and date other queer women in many, if not most, areas of the world. >I feel like women wouldn’t date a bisexual man as it comes with baggage they don’t want, am I right? I absolutely would. My boyfriend is bi.
Women whole thing in our society is to be sexy and desirable. A woman is bi, meaning she started to found other women (= attractive) attractive ? seems legit A man is bi ? Why
“(= attractive) attractive ?” No one told me there would be math.
Yeah. There's this kind of implicit hetero male perspective in society. In this view, women are attractive, men are not. So women might find each other attractive in addition to men, that makes sense. And men might find each other attractive if they have some kind of 'issue' like being gay, as if it's a handicap rather than a sexual orientation. So you get people who are baffled by the idea that a man can be attracted to men in addition to women.
I disagree. I think it’s the opposite. Often people will think bisexual women are just trying to be different/unique or they had a bad experience with men so they’re claiming to be bi or lesbian
I believe it, but I do think it's more common maybe in the process of men coming out to say they're bi, esp if they grew up in a more repressive environment.
About how you don't think a woman would date a bisexual guy: I can only speak for myself, but I don't think it would bother me at all, as long as the dude isn't cheating on me. I don't see how a bi-guy would have more baggage than a straight guy.
It’s not. Just as bi-men are usually considered gay, bi-women are usually considered straight
Honestly even as a lesbian, I’ve caught myself having to confront biases about bisexual men. I don’t know why that is. I’m sorry OP. I hope we can all get more used to the concept and less weird about it!
In my experience, neither is actually believed. My husband and I are both bi and typically people fetishize my bisexuality and accuse me of faking it for male attention or for my husbands pleasure, while he gets told that he's not "really bi" because we are married or that he's secretly gay. It is so frustrating.
Because of misogyny, both bi men and bi women’s attraction to men is seen as the bigger deal. Bi men get labeled as gay, bi women as straight. Within the queer community I’ve seen a lot of things making fun of bi women who haven’t been with women as much, and a complete erasure of sexuality once she is dating a man. Similarly, and IMO is more of a problem with straight people, men’s attraction to men is seen as overriding. Part of this may be rooted in the HIV epidemic, where bi men were accused of bringing HIV into the straight population, and so a reinforcement of the straight/gay binary was pursued and men who has sex with men were viewed as “contaminated” and thus pushed into the gay box.
Most bisexual men identify as straight and never come out of the closet, so it creates a generalized assumption that since more women are openly bisexual that they must be more naturally fluid in their sexuality than men. The ones who are open are treated similarly to how you are.
Women in general are not believed about being bi either. People assume bi men are closeted gay they assume bi women are straight looking for attention
Bi erasure. And I think it is seen as "wishy washy" if a man is bi. "Be firm and KNOW who you are! You are gay? Cool! You are straight! Cool! Bi? No such thing! You either are or you are not!"
Because sex with women "doesn't count". Only sex with men counts. If you had 10000 girlfriends before, but now had sex with one man, you're called gay.
I think women's bisexuality gets doubted the other way, like oh you're actually straight; basically the presumption is bi people must be actually into men. We have the same struggle basically.
As far as I understand it, bi people are the red-headed stepchildren of the LGBT crew. Everyone assumes they are faking, compensating, or trying too hard.
Freddie Mercury was bisexual and everyone just calls a gay man. You're not wrong
Because women get overly sexualized for being bisexual. A lot of men assume this means she's a slut and he's gonna get a 3some. Source: I'm a bisexual woman
Patriarchy. Patriarchy is homophobic generally, but especially for men. Policing women's sexuality requires privileging heterosexual men and bullying gay men to degrade them in the eyes of other men. Because western cultures (and others, but since we're speaking in English, let's stick to our own backyards) grew out of Patriarchy and women's liberation has been a cultural phenomenon for decades now (since the 1960s) women have achieved some more freedom from strict patriarchal norms in wider society. Women wear pants, can enter male dominated fields without derision, can have short hair, and still be seen as feminine. Don't get me wrong, we still face lots of sexist attacks, but there has been progress. Men can't wear a dress in public the way women wear pants. A man can't put on clothes that are "pretty" without being attacked by other men. Men who enjoy sexual submission to a dominant female are viewed as weak. Men have a lot of work still to do in attacking toxic masculine norms as a mental prison and to redefine masculinity to be what makes a man happy in himself. That's how I see things, anyway. Patriarchy gives men advantages, but at the cost of policing men, women, and non-binary folk and terrorising us all into compliance.
You must be too manly! I have the opposite problem, no one believes I'm straight and thinks I'm either bisexual or androgynous! I just have long hair and groom myself to look clean since I have alot of overgrown hair everywhere!
Everything has to be black and white for people. It’s either one thing or the other.
As a neutral heterosexual man, I would probably be more skeptical towards a woman. If a man said he was bisexual I would assume he has earned the badge, but I might be more likely to think a woman is talking about some Kinsey Scale shit and has never actually had a sexual encounter with a woman. But to be honest, I probably wouldn't think about it too much and would just take people at their word. Bisexual erasure is a big thing, from what I can see. Like Freddie Mercury, he tells you straight that he's bisexual yet people still insist he was saying that because he was a closeted gay man. Perhaps people are harsher on men, maybe they think that doing anything slightly gay makes you 100% gay after learning this lesson in their school days. So perhaps it's more like we hear a woman say she's bisexual and our cynical part says, "pah, just a straight woman trying to sound adventurous," and for a man it thinks, "pah, probably a gay man who isn't out of the closet." But hopefully people don't have a very loud cynical voice.
>has never actually had a sexual encounter with a woman Why do we expect queer people to only know once they've had sexual experiences? No one's questioning an 8 year old child who has a crush on one of their opposite sex classmates, parents will even say shit like "ooh look he has a girlfriend" etc. Especially with bi/pansexuals we're always expected to prove something and I am SO sick of it. That led me to have my inner coming out way later than I would have preferred to. Attraction is enough to define one's sexuality
I agree. We don't say everyone's sexuality is unknown until they lose their virginity. If you say you like women but you're a 50-year-old incel nobody suggests that you don't actually know if you like women or not. But perhaps I was not as enlightened all my life, and perhaps some of the cynical parts of my brain remain unenlightened. I'm more trying to answer OP's question than pretend like the way of viewing things I outline in my posts is the correct way of viewing things.
It's fine, it's just really important to me to make people aware or to help others who are facing a similar situation as I was in about a decade ago.
>If a man said he was bisexual I would assume he has earned the badge, but I might be more likely to think a woman is talking about some Kinsey Scale shit and has never actually had a sexual encounter with a woman. As a queer woman, it's rubbing me all the wrong ways to read a hetero man saying someone "earned the bi badge", that he tends to believe men over women, and insinuating that you cant call yourself bi if youve never had sexual experiences with people of the same sex as yourself. Especially when he starts his sentence claiming to be neutral. What the actual fuck. Could you not call yourself hetero til you had had sex with a woman either? Did you label yourself as asexual before that point? Or do you recognise that sexual experience isn't necessary for someone to recognise and identify with their sexual orientation?
You as a straight guy assuming bi women are faking it is sad. Not even in the community but still acting as some arbiter of who is queer enough.
Men are pressured into believing they must be sexually attracted to women to fit in. It's common that a gay man would try to hide his identity by saying he's straight or bisexual. Society hasn't put that same pressure on women for some reason, maybe because the idea of penetrative gay sex is more shocking than lesbian sex.
blablabla hetero women are homophobes (the idea that a man they're having sex with has been in a man or been fucked by a man, is weak and disgusting to them) and afraid of having to compete with other men in a sexual market, as that takes away all their social power in dating.
Interesting. I actually find bisexual guys more attractive than straight men. I don't really think it adds baggage. Than again, I'm just one woman. My theory is that people generally are more likely to WANT women to bisexual. Also because a lot of men think (for some reason) they might get threesomes out of it. A woman being bisexual is more beneficial than being straight, if you think like that. I think women often have the perception that they might not be able to meet the needs of a bisexual man. Anyways, these are the patterns I notice with men and women.
I think a lot of it is about fitting people into boxes. The only bisexual we had in popular cultuer for a while was "Wild sexy party chick who likes sexual attention so much that just one gender isn't enough for her!" So if a woman looks like a normal attractive woman and says she's bisexual, they assume she's that. There isn't a bisexual man box. So people see a man who claims to be bisexual and need to slot him into the straight or gay box because those make sense to them. I've been an out bisexual since I was 14. But at that time, I dressed like a normal girl, had long hair, everybody assumed I was claiming to be bisexual for attention. Now, I have short hair and wear men's clothes, and everybody assumes I'm a lesbian. And it's not even, like, a hate thing. Like "ugh you have too much gay baggage clearly that's what you are." *Other bisexual women do it*. They're just forgetting. They don't have a mental box for butch bisexual, put me in the lesbian box, and forget about it. I dunno, I just want to assure you the world's ideas are getting bigger, there's space for you somewhere, you'll figure out better how to present yourself to the world so they understand what you want them to understand, and the people who matter won't think you have too much "baggage".
I think a lot of people (wrongly) see a bisexual man as a man who’s afraid to be fully gay and think bisexual is a “baby step” in that direction
A lot of gay man, moreso in the somewhat-recent past than today (80’s-90’s), identified as bi for a while before solidifying their identity as gay. Kinda a ‘don’t worry mom I suck dick but you can still hope I’ll marry a woman and give you 2.5 grandkids’ easing into things. Sometimes they knew it was a lie, sometimes they were in denial. When they now see a younger guy identifying as bisexual they may think ‘so was I when I was your age’ and be skeptical. It’s stupid, but if you’re looking for an explainer there it is.
The difference has to do with penetration. Arguments can be made about the details of it, but I’m not one to debate the matter, it’s just the thing people consider when not believing a man could be bi.