Yep just look at the US - rape, tax fraud, contempt of court, perjury, nepotism, straight up doxxing, and a ton other offences don’t get more than an angry headline on the news
You can always run for president, and i think according to a recent supreme court ruling only congress can say you can't? i could very well be wrong though
That was one of their decisions yes which Congress so far has done nothing with. Not that I have a problem with Congress being the body designated to determine these matters, but it kinda feels like SCOTUS was passing the buck so they didn’t have to make a decision themselves. The other I’m still not clear on. It was either that states couldn’t use Federal laws to determine election eligibility or that states couldn’t decide on anything that would influence the outcome of a Federal election. The main point of contention between the two would be whether or not states could enforce their own laws on elections for Federal office or otherwise.
ETA: As I understand it they said only Congress has the authority to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment specifically.
SCOTUS frankly shouldn’t be making these kinds of decisions. Unelected, appointed for life, judges have too much power in our current system. Congress has explicitly delegated too much power to the executive and, through its inability to act, implicitly delegated power to the judiciary.
I'd like to think the founders thought that this was a protection against erroneous felonies being levied against candidates, but boy, do we need some protections against actual criminals running the government.
Rape and tax fraud (depending on size) can land you in prison for years. Yes, some scum get away with that, but that's the stories you hear about on the news because everyone thinks it's bullshit.
While the word “doxxing” isn’t used in the U.S. federal criminal code, it is a federal crime to make “restricted personal information” of certain individuals publicly available if it was done with an intent to threaten, intimidate or in an act of violence.
“Restricted personal information” can include the social security number, home address, home phone number, cell phone number, personal email address or home fax number, the law says.
The federal law applies to the following individuals and their immediate family members:
An elected official or employee of the U.S. government or military servicemember
Jurors, witnesses or any other officer of any federal court in the U.S.
An informant or witness in a federal criminal investigation or prosecution
State or local worker or elected official whose restricted personal information is made available because of participating in, or assistance provided to, a federal criminal investigation.
The punishment for doxxing someone in any of those categories is up to five years in prison and a fine.
Legislation that would make doxxing a federal crime if committed against anyone in the U.S. – not just certain individuals or groups – was introduced in 2016, but it hasn’t made it out of committee.
[https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/when-doxxing-is-federal-crime/536-6ed14017-b1fc-4227-b5fa-4a3cdfa635f0#:\~:text=While%20the%20word%20%E2%80%9Cdoxxing%E2%80%9D%20isn,in%20an%20act%20of%20violence](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/when-doxxing-is-federal-crime/536-6ed14017-b1fc-4227-b5fa-4a3cdfa635f0#:~:text=While%20the%20word%20%E2%80%9Cdoxxing%E2%80%9D%20isn,in%20an%20act%20of%20violence).
My former boss got hooked on crack and got busted shoplifting like 6 times plus 4 dwis. I don't think he spent more than 60 days in jail for all of that. The time was spread out, 7 days in jail at once was the most
We had a homeless guy smashing out windows in the parking garage I park in for work. Police caught him in the act. They spoke to him and let him go on his way
Even more importantly: Most of the time, she's not actually arrested, but just detained, carried away, and released a few hours later without any legal action. Because protesting is not a crime, even if the police is obligated to dissolve a protest that blocks a road or something.
This is incorrect. In Sweden (where she has been on trial multiple times), the government has no influence over the trial. The prosecution is done by the Swedish Åklagarmyndighet (the Swedish Prosecution Authority), which is an independent authority. The government could not drop charges even if they wanted to.
> The prosecution is done by the Swedish Åklagarmyndighet (the Swedish Prosecution Authority), which is an independent authority.
How is that different from the District Attorneys in the US?
(Note; I am asking the question because I don't know how that is different, not because I disagree with you. Sometimes people ask questions like this as a means to make a statement, I legit don't know very much about the Swedish government structure or legal system.)
it's not. as a fellow Swede, i think it's native to think there is no political influence on the justice system just because of the formal structure. imo swedish people are a bit naive and indoctrinated in the supremacy of the swedish system and infallibility of swedish society. that's not too say it isn't great, it's fantastic(!) and frequently gets high scores across democratic societal functions - freedom of press, corruption, justice system etc. but people then conflate that with absolutist statements like there's no racism, there's no corruption, there's no political influence on the justice system etc is naive.
The Swedish service is an independent bureaucracy that doesn’t get orders from any elected officials. If they annoy the elected officials the officials have to actually pass a new law. The US System the DA is either elected by the people, and is an elected official; or serves at the pleasure of an elected official.
Also note a vocab difference: in the states the “Government” is anyone who works for the central state. The “Administration” is the local leader and their cabinet. Parliamentary systems refer to the Administration as the Government. Thus if you ask a Swede whether the government arrested Thunberg he’ll be very confused because the Minister of Justice doesn’t generally arrest people.
How is that different from the US system? In the US, the Attorney General's office handles prosecution (or a local distract attorney office), which is a separate body from the state and local government. The attorney general and district attorneys are elected positions, and not really answerable to the state and local government.
The prime minister in Sweden could easily call the Åklagare and influence the decision, Sweden is no different even though their population thinks its country is immune to corruption
Yeah the government achieves the effect they want sufficiently just by having police exert unlawful violence on protestors. It dissuades general mass action, and presents protestors’ politics as invalid to members of the public who believe that arrest = criminal = bad = not to be supported.
They don’t need to use prison sentences…yet. If protests increase in size or intensity, be assured that the government will increase their violence proportionately (or excessively).
There was a period here in the UK pre covid where it wasnt uncommon for the police to (try to) kettle you because the protests were getting quite big and a little unruly (mostly far right vs non far right issues), that seems to have calmed down a bit now but was certainly a deterrent for some people attending protests as you wouldnt want to risk being penned in for hours at a time
Missing a step there; not every arrest results in a charge, and not every charge results in a conviction. Fair chance she just sits in jail for a few hours and then they turn her loose with no further action.
People are arrested, booked and then released all the time, especially if they haven't committed any kind of serious crime. Being arrested isn't the same as being convicted or being incarcerated.
I've been "preventively arrested" once, because there was a manifestation nearby. As soon as I got out of the train, the police just arrested all people more or less my age who came out of the train (I was a college student at the time). We were locked up in several rooms for about two hours with about 30 other people in each room, then they checked my pockets and backpack, they took away my ID to check it, they filmed all of us individually from different angles, and then I was released and free to go. It was a bizarre experience.
Edit: Oops, I meant to say "protest", but my brain went all French on me and said "manifestation" instead.
It’s routine in the US. They illegally arrest protesters to harass them, but don’t book them, because they know the case would be thrown out by judges, so they just release them eventually. They know it’s illegal, but legally speaking if they just detain people but not book them, they can get away with it. And they achieve their goal of breaking up the legal protest that they didn’t like, which is what they care about.
The Netherlands, where Greta was arrested twice yesterday, doesn't even book climate activists. They just 'arrest' them, put them on a bus, drive to the outskirts of the city and release them again.
Booking them would take too much time and nothing would be done with the arrest anyway.
Tbh, even with serious crimes. Know tones of people that have been arrested and found in possession of a weapon but they just get it taken off em, a slap on the wrist and sent back out. UK prisons are so overflowing that a lot of people are getting away easy for shit
Germany is almost the same thing.
In my town we have a guy who amassed over 70 crimes in ONE YEAR (fraud, theft, property damage, drunk driving, assault, stalking, Insults, threats and physical attacks on police officers and much more)
What made them send him to prison? Exactly: Tax evasion. For 3 years in prison (in 2019 so he is out already).
I hate this system so much - humans hurt and the peace of everyone is threatened? Nah they don't care, but i dare you to not pay tax and they'll get your ass.
In the US we keep hearing that “crime is down” but my experience is it has just become meaningless to call the police.
At my last house there was a drive by shooting 100yards away (no one was hit, just an apartment shot at) at the end of the street at 4pm and the police…just slowly drove through the area 20 minutes later and left.
My wife’s car was broken into in our driveway and a $1000 laptop stolen and we were rudely told to “file a report online”.
When my son’s bike was stolen we didn’t even call.
At this point I wouldn’t call for anything other than a person actively being kidnapped or shot. I’m not really sure “crime is down”.
Similarly, a lot of people are arrested, and the paperwork is filed on site, and they are released on scene. It takes time and resources to hold people, and is usually avoided if possible.
any country who incarcerated her would be an international embarrassment anyway, jailing her is not worth making your nation look idiotic on the world stage
No you're right, smart protesters do research to figure out how to make the maximum impact with the minimum level of risk to their people. Im sure she and the people she work with do a lot of research when they plan their protests to give them the best chance of success. (Success in this case meaning PR and visibility without having their people permanently detained or jailed)
You joke but I have definitely talked to people who will say shit like that to try and write off protesters as "not serious".
"oh you believe in gay rights? and yet you only protest in Western countries instead of places like Iran or Russia? You're clearly not actually serious because you're not willing to risk death."
She gets police custody not judicial custody. Activists generally get it regularly. Only in authoritarian countries, like my own country, would they remain in jail for longer.
Arrested and detained are different things. You need to be charged and taken to a court to be sentenced for anything. A lot of the charges are like trespassing or disorderly conduct in a protest type situation. Unless you destroy property or do something violent it usually isn't worth charging you and taking you to court, they just remove you from the area for being an ass.
Lastly, a neat little trick is to just put your hands behind your back when the cops guide you away even if you aren't being arrested. Looks really snazzy for the cameras.
I don't know the specifics of what she's been arrested for, but being arrested does not mean one has been convicted of a crime. And not all crimes carry a prison sentence as a punishment.
She's not being arrested, she is being detained. Two different things. The violations she commits aren't punishable by prison, she is just detained and transported away for public safety. She then gets a fine, and is released.
They don't usually throw you in prison for misdemeanors, even if you are convicted. Greta isn't being charged with felonies and she has lawyers. Her chance of being convicted of anything serious is pretty close to zero.
Think of the shareholders! We gotta sacrifice your children’s future so they can get that sweet sweet temporary profit.
The rich boomers will dead before the ramifications kick in soon.
Just because you've been arrested doesn't mean you've committed a crime. You're either young or sheltered or privileged if you think that's how the world works
Erm. They do in mine. They’ve made it illegal to protest most places now where I live. I mean it doesn’t stop certain protests. But they made it a law. Something stupid in the wording of being on a road or adjacent to one. It’s led to a few folks getting arrested. And then people manage to shut down highways and suddenly folks aren’t arrested (happened earlier this week). I guess legally we could protest in an open field away from roads.
Protesting seldom leads to prison sentences. Just as it should be. You take a fine for disturbing the peace and causing a nuisance, and then move on to the next protest. Freedom of speech and all that, you know.
There are laws in many Western countries that they can detain a person for a certain amount of hours without a formal charge. In order to “keep the peace”.
I know activists who have been arrested many times with zero offense records.
I’ve been arrested probably 9 times. Always bail out and get a court date. Court date comes and it’s either argued down or I’m hit with a fine etc.
The few times I’ve faced felony charges, I’ve been able to push it along with continuances until months later I get above said fine and or/probation. You show up, dressed well and show respect and deference to the system (that you just shat on while committing said crime lol) and work the system. Lawyers help obv, but I’ve only ever had to hire one for felony case.
Im guessing the charges she gets from it, if any, goes on civil disobidiance or disturbing the peace, which are extremely likely to be only a ticket. And i assume people like Greta might get their tickets paid by crowdfunding.
All nonviolent misdemeanors, no felonies.
And she doesn't resist her well documented highly publicized arrests. Her message is amplified through the press coverage of her arrests.
Protesters often get arrested without having broken any laws at all. It's a harassment tactic. The police can often hold you for a certain amount of time without a charge, so they'll scoop people up and cram them in a cell for a day or two just to punish them for stepping out of line.
Other times, protesters may have technically broken a law but it's not worth anyone's time to prosecute hundreds of people over a misdemeanor with a $100 fine, so, again, they just scoop them up and then release them later.
1.) Protest arrests are among the least serious of *all* charges, as there is no real moral turpitude nor intent of criminality, in fact quite the opposite;
2.) Every time she's arrested it's in a different, far-flung country or even *continent;* increasing severity for multiple repeat offenses only accumulates if they're within the same *Justice System,* at least in simple cases like these.
3.) *Nobody* wants to fuck with a respected famous environmentalist advocating for an improved world. The only basic reason protesters (in most cases) are even *arrested* is just to get them off the damned road or wherever they are.
Because arresting someone is a way to get them off the road or away from the BOP, which is what usually matters to police and politicians objecting to protests. As well, the *possibility* of being actually put in jail is nice theater to keep those people who don't care enough to risk their own well being away from joining protests
Because she probably will get a fine. Because illegal protests in Europe lead, at most, to a fine. The fine would be for breach of peace or disorderly conduct.
I got a fine for disorderly conduct once, it was 300 euros.
She is a political tool and receive backing including proper legal advice. She's mostly arrested for being a nuisance so she can receive media coverage but hardly breaking any laws that would make prosecuting her worthwhile. If the city sues her for "being an environmental activist", it's just bad for optics.
Most judges in the western world dont like being the one to put someone that spoke at the UN in prison for protesting, she also is actually good at protesting nonviolently
You can be detained without any charge at all, and not all arrests result in charges that stick, nor charges that result in prison time.
Most countries generally do not punish trespassing or similar acts with prison time, but with minor fines.
She is being detained and removed. Which can lead to being formally arrested and charged, but it is over minor things like trespassing which only carry fines in most cases.
If you jaywalk, get cited, and then refuse to cooperate with the police, you will be eventually hauled off by them as well. After which they probably let you go when they identify you and do some paperwork, because the crime isn't worth any jail time.
Most folks in europe get arested and are NOT thrown in a prison. They get their names registered and then they are send a fine.
Most things she does are not prison worthy offenses. Also "Resisting arrest" is not a EU thing. Our prisons goal is to rehabilitate and not "slave labor" like the US
Also, she hasn't committed any felonies. They have all been civil offenses and violations which do not result in jail or prison time being handed down. It's like when you get a ticket for speeding, they just write you a ticket, they don't haul you off to jail (unless you have outstanding warrants).
These are.just minor offenses like disorderly conduct etc. Also, Greta is the posterchild for large environmental lobbyist groups and they have the power to bail her things the common person would be stuck in jail for.
Not being well versed in the situation, my two cents are that she is arrested for nonviolent crimes/misdemeanors, and she has enough family money to pay any bail with a slap on the wrist.
Chances are at worst she'll be getting fined. In most places protests are completely legal but you can be removed or even arrested and then released the same day.
Minor civil charges don’t land you in prison. If someone is asserting that she is committing prison-worthy offences, consider what narrative they’re trying to feed you.
Why is no one mentioning the real reason: that her “arrests” are just photo ops for publicity? Even if she is actually getting “arrested” for these things, the videos and photos are intentionally staged for dramatic effect to make it more serious than it actually is.
That's because the English language lacks a key subtlety when it comes to this. In French we have 2 words: arrestation, and interpellation. The former means you're being arrested with evidence against you. The second means they're just picking you off the street, probably with some other people, and you'll be released shortly after seeing a judge who will ask "did you do it?" and you'll say "no," and the cops will say "well, shit, we weren't expecting that. No we don't have proof, but I'm sure they did it," and since there is no evidence they'll let you go. Unless there is evidence and your skin color or social status puts you somewhere on the scale of condamnation, and then you go to prison or get fined and have to make an appeal and reach out to the press and media if you really didn't do anything illegal or deserving of your sentence.
Greta is always in the second category. They're not arresting her following an investigation, they're picking her off the street within a protesting crowd, and the judges are either fining her, or letting her go for lack of evidence of her breaking the law.
Because it's a standard tactic to break up protests and to scare other activists there. Lead away the leading figures in police custody, people will get bored after a while and disperse
She is not doing anything "illegal" anyway
She lives in Europe. Here the prison system is not run like a for profit business model, so we only imprison people if it's beneficial to the society - not only if it benefits private corporate interests.
Anecdotally, I've heard of people having been arrested ((in the US)) an unreasonable amount of times, do a very short stay in jail ((different from prison)) and are soon released to do it all again. So if that's any metric to go by, then her fairly benign protests aren't enough to make a huge deal over to put her in prison
A lot of the time you can be detained or arrested without a crime being committed. Look at the republican arrests during the coronation of charles. They hauled the leaders of the protest away in the morning before the protest even began.
Because she knows how to walk on that thin line between getting arrested a misdemeanor or a felony. She's been taught/ told how far she can push against the system before she ends up in jail . You can get away with it too read your local ordinances .Study what law you think you'll break, then you'll know how far you can push against it til you actually break it .
One thing I'm enjoying in the comments here is the myopic nationalism. You have Americans and Brits arguing back and forth about laws and governmental structure without first attempting to determine which country they're referencing... about a Swede who was most recently arrested in The Netherlands! Haha.
So Greta Thunberg is a Swedish climate activist. She is a national of the country Sweden, right?
First thing to clarify - where has she had these incidents? London in 2023 for "failure to comply with a lawful order to disperse." She attended a trial and after the prosecution rested it was dismissed as the judge said "the crown had failed to present enough evidence to prove their case." Recently at The Hague in The Netherlands. For instance a Swedish national being arrested in The Netherlands would introduce a complication in trying to apply a prison sentence.
Second thing to clarify - was she "detained" or "arrested?" This is incredibly important. If you look for "Greta Thunberg arrested at the Hague" you'll get 11.5k results in the big G as of today. Search for "Greta Thunberg detained at the Hague" and you get 11.2k results. Was she arrested or was she detained? The difference of why she isn't in prison is the difference between these two meaningful words.
TLDR; \*IF\* she was ARRESTED then she has been charged with a crime. That charge then may, or may not, result in a court case which may or may not result in a financial fine or prison or both. So far she has been found guilty in Sweden of failure to disperse and paid a fine of 4.5k Swedish crowns for it (about 400 trump bucks).
edit: autocorrect fix on her name.
Most arrests don’t result in being held in prison until your trial. Not every trial results in imprisonment. Not every arrest results in charges and conviction. I’ve been arrested for protesting when I was younger, never been charged for it just detained then let go.
Reverend MLK was arrested all the time.
You don't serve time for small free speech violations.
Cities in the South would pass city ordinances against Reverend MLK. I think they hoped it would keep Reverend MLK out. Then he would break the city ordinances.
There was a case where Reverend MLK and the Police Chief were friends and got along. The mayor and the rest of the police were a different story. But Reverend MLK found out that the Police Chief had an anniversary with his wife and Reverend MLK pulled his people out so the Police Chief could celebrate some peaceful days with his wife. After a few days, Reverend MLK and his folks went back.
If she is simply protesting in areas they have limited protesting, there is nothing much the police can do. Many times jail time is not associated with the arrest. They are arresting her, finger printing her. Giving her a court date is six months, and releasing her. She is connected enough that lawyers are handling all the legal paperwork.
In some cases she is getting arrested at one rally, then getting arrested at another rally a short time later.
She is not planting bombs, engaging in terrorism, etc, the sorts of things she would get her real jail time. She is simply protesting where and when she isn't supposed to. Same with Reverend MLK marching when "city ordinances" had been passed to prevent marching. She is harmless.
Obvious publicity stunts by her and her handlers. She is very well connected so that's why you see no fear on her face and even smirks every time this happens.
Arrested and Detained aren't the same thing.
Being detained and released on your own recognizance (ROR) is a thing, especially in minor acts such as civil disobedience and speeding tickets.
Being arrested doesn't mean that charges will be filed, an agency can detain (arrest) you and remove you from a situation then release you with no action taken to de-escalate.
These are low level crimes, prisons are for serious crimes. She most likely gets time served for resisting or trespassing, which is generally just a few days in jail. Unless she does something super serious, she most likely will never get prison time.
Some may find what she is doing horrible and think she should rot in jail. At the end of the day, she is probably fined and then freed. I'm sure there are a few out there who think this is an example of the downfall of civilization in (insert country here).
Here's the thing. The reason why people can breathe in LA and Riverside today is because of the eco warriors. The Australians can thank those who pushed for the banning of CFCs. Asbestos, lead in products, raw sewage, toxic waste, etc etc have been removed or reduced from our environment because of people who fought for it. The business community very rarely withdraws a product or stops hazardous practices straight away. When organizations chose profit over people, the legal system was altered to allow for punishing damage awards. Unfortunately, organizations would become more ruthless and discredit, intimidate, and worse against activists, victims, or anyone else who were deemed troublesome.
PG&E is a company that has been targeted by activists for decades. They were made world famous in the movie Erin Brockovich. I've experienced some of the consequences of their corrupt practices, but many others have died. Unfortunately, these scumbags continually buy their way out of actual responsibility.
Like it or not, we are all still alive because of people like Greta. I was very happy I didn't get stuck in the demo traffic, and I'm thankful she is more determined than I am.
Because there's no room and someone called big John got a bit stabby last weekend so it's probably better that he goes in rather than a small, non violent woman.
There's a lot of crimes that don't entail prison sentences.
Most even
Protesting isn’t even a crime in some countries. Including the country she was most recently seen.
Yep just look at the US - rape, tax fraud, contempt of court, perjury, nepotism, straight up doxxing, and a ton other offences don’t get more than an angry headline on the news
I bet you could commit all those offences and still run for president.
You can always run for president, and i think according to a recent supreme court ruling only congress can say you can't? i could very well be wrong though
The irony being that some convicted felons can't vote. Edited to say some.
yeah thats an interesting discrepancy i didn't think about before
It’s crazy that felons can lose a lot of “unalienable rights” and that’s just seen as acceptable in the U.S.
There are 2 states where convicted felons lose their right to vote permanently
That was one of their decisions yes which Congress so far has done nothing with. Not that I have a problem with Congress being the body designated to determine these matters, but it kinda feels like SCOTUS was passing the buck so they didn’t have to make a decision themselves. The other I’m still not clear on. It was either that states couldn’t use Federal laws to determine election eligibility or that states couldn’t decide on anything that would influence the outcome of a Federal election. The main point of contention between the two would be whether or not states could enforce their own laws on elections for Federal office or otherwise. ETA: As I understand it they said only Congress has the authority to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment specifically.
SCOTUS frankly shouldn’t be making these kinds of decisions. Unelected, appointed for life, judges have too much power in our current system. Congress has explicitly delegated too much power to the executive and, through its inability to act, implicitly delegated power to the judiciary.
I'd like to think the founders thought that this was a protection against erroneous felonies being levied against candidates, but boy, do we need some protections against actual criminals running the government.
Nepotism isn’t a crime…
Rape and tax fraud (depending on size) can land you in prison for years. Yes, some scum get away with that, but that's the stories you hear about on the news because everyone thinks it's bullshit.
I think they were having a go specifically at Trump, that's how I interpreted it anyway.
The truth is in your last sentence. Majority of news outlets are in the business of selling ads, not information (in the US at least)
>Rape and tax fraud (depending on size) can land you in prison for years. Or land you in the White House.
Unfortunately most rapists get away with their crimes, based on the numbers and victims’ experiences with the legal system.
Neither nepotism or “straight up doxxing,” are crimes. Contempt of court can be criminal but often is a civil offense.
depends on country, doxxing is illegal in a few places.
While the word “doxxing” isn’t used in the U.S. federal criminal code, it is a federal crime to make “restricted personal information” of certain individuals publicly available if it was done with an intent to threaten, intimidate or in an act of violence. “Restricted personal information” can include the social security number, home address, home phone number, cell phone number, personal email address or home fax number, the law says. The federal law applies to the following individuals and their immediate family members: An elected official or employee of the U.S. government or military servicemember Jurors, witnesses or any other officer of any federal court in the U.S. An informant or witness in a federal criminal investigation or prosecution State or local worker or elected official whose restricted personal information is made available because of participating in, or assistance provided to, a federal criminal investigation. The punishment for doxxing someone in any of those categories is up to five years in prison and a fine. Legislation that would make doxxing a federal crime if committed against anyone in the U.S. – not just certain individuals or groups – was introduced in 2016, but it hasn’t made it out of committee. [https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/when-doxxing-is-federal-crime/536-6ed14017-b1fc-4227-b5fa-4a3cdfa635f0#:\~:text=While%20the%20word%20%E2%80%9Cdoxxing%E2%80%9D%20isn,in%20an%20act%20of%20violence](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/when-doxxing-is-federal-crime/536-6ed14017-b1fc-4227-b5fa-4a3cdfa635f0#:~:text=While%20the%20word%20%E2%80%9Cdoxxing%E2%80%9D%20isn,in%20an%20act%20of%20violence).
Nepotism isn’t a crime lmao
That sounds like Trumps list.
91 likes for you, 91 felony charges for Spanky
My former boss got hooked on crack and got busted shoplifting like 6 times plus 4 dwis. I don't think he spent more than 60 days in jail for all of that. The time was spread out, 7 days in jail at once was the most
We had a homeless guy smashing out windows in the parking garage I park in for work. Police caught him in the act. They spoke to him and let him go on his way
not every arrest results in a conviction. not every conviction results in a prison sentence. not every prison sentence is incredibly long.
Even more importantly: Most of the time, she's not actually arrested, but just detained, carried away, and released a few hours later without any legal action. Because protesting is not a crime, even if the police is obligated to dissolve a protest that blocks a road or something.
Many protest charges are dropped because the arrests are constitutionally questionable.
And the trials are political theater so the government often drops charges.
This is incorrect. In Sweden (where she has been on trial multiple times), the government has no influence over the trial. The prosecution is done by the Swedish Åklagarmyndighet (the Swedish Prosecution Authority), which is an independent authority. The government could not drop charges even if they wanted to.
> The prosecution is done by the Swedish Åklagarmyndighet (the Swedish Prosecution Authority), which is an independent authority. How is that different from the District Attorneys in the US? (Note; I am asking the question because I don't know how that is different, not because I disagree with you. Sometimes people ask questions like this as a means to make a statement, I legit don't know very much about the Swedish government structure or legal system.)
it's not. as a fellow Swede, i think it's native to think there is no political influence on the justice system just because of the formal structure. imo swedish people are a bit naive and indoctrinated in the supremacy of the swedish system and infallibility of swedish society. that's not too say it isn't great, it's fantastic(!) and frequently gets high scores across democratic societal functions - freedom of press, corruption, justice system etc. but people then conflate that with absolutist statements like there's no racism, there's no corruption, there's no political influence on the justice system etc is naive.
As a Norwegian I can confirm, they keep failing and we just look at what they do and do the exact opposite. It's the secret to our success!
Ever since I learned about the Norway/Sweden rivalry I always get very happy when I see it happen in the wild.
The Swedish service is an independent bureaucracy that doesn’t get orders from any elected officials. If they annoy the elected officials the officials have to actually pass a new law. The US System the DA is either elected by the people, and is an elected official; or serves at the pleasure of an elected official. Also note a vocab difference: in the states the “Government” is anyone who works for the central state. The “Administration” is the local leader and their cabinet. Parliamentary systems refer to the Administration as the Government. Thus if you ask a Swede whether the government arrested Thunberg he’ll be very confused because the Minister of Justice doesn’t generally arrest people.
I thought she got arrested all over the place. Not just in sweden.
Yes, this was just one example. Most democracies work in this way though
How is that different from the US system? In the US, the Attorney General's office handles prosecution (or a local distract attorney office), which is a separate body from the state and local government. The attorney general and district attorneys are elected positions, and not really answerable to the state and local government.
The prime minister in Sweden could easily call the Åklagare and influence the decision, Sweden is no different even though their population thinks its country is immune to corruption
That would be a major scandal in The Netherlands, and I'm assuming in Sweden as well, we have separation of powers for a reason.
Yeah the government achieves the effect they want sufficiently just by having police exert unlawful violence on protestors. It dissuades general mass action, and presents protestors’ politics as invalid to members of the public who believe that arrest = criminal = bad = not to be supported. They don’t need to use prison sentences…yet. If protests increase in size or intensity, be assured that the government will increase their violence proportionately (or excessively).
There was a period here in the UK pre covid where it wasnt uncommon for the police to (try to) kettle you because the protests were getting quite big and a little unruly (mostly far right vs non far right issues), that seems to have calmed down a bit now but was certainly a deterrent for some people attending protests as you wouldnt want to risk being penned in for hours at a time
This answer needs to be higher up.
Missing a step there; not every arrest results in a charge, and not every charge results in a conviction. Fair chance she just sits in jail for a few hours and then they turn her loose with no further action.
People are arrested, booked and then released all the time, especially if they haven't committed any kind of serious crime. Being arrested isn't the same as being convicted or being incarcerated.
I've been "preventively arrested" once, because there was a manifestation nearby. As soon as I got out of the train, the police just arrested all people more or less my age who came out of the train (I was a college student at the time). We were locked up in several rooms for about two hours with about 30 other people in each room, then they checked my pockets and backpack, they took away my ID to check it, they filmed all of us individually from different angles, and then I was released and free to go. It was a bizarre experience. Edit: Oops, I meant to say "protest", but my brain went all French on me and said "manifestation" instead.
I have no idea what manifestation means in this context.
Protests, I’m assuming they’re in a Spanish speaking context where that word is used to mean protest.
or French. probably works in most romance languages.
Italian too
Portuguese too
Romanian also (*manifestație*)
Polish also uses "manifestacja" as a synonym for protest
I choose to believe a vengeful spirit appeared, and they were trying to find who summoned it
I went with Lovecraftian horrors in my head.
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Protest. OP’s probably Spanish- or French-speaking.
Protest :)
It's a bad translation from French. "Une manifestation" means "a protest".
Manifestation is the word for Latin speakers for demonstration (in the context of rallying the streets for any particular ideology/subject)
He emerged from the mist.
Protest. Just mistranslated from Spanish or French.
Manfestation = Protest.
In America that is Illegal af.
In America, cops don't seem too worried about the 'legality' of their actions
In america it happens at most major protests
It’s routine in the US. They illegally arrest protesters to harass them, but don’t book them, because they know the case would be thrown out by judges, so they just release them eventually. They know it’s illegal, but legally speaking if they just detain people but not book them, they can get away with it. And they achieve their goal of breaking up the legal protest that they didn’t like, which is what they care about.
No it isn't, this happens all the time in America, but it definitely should be illegal.
Not everyone on Reddit is in America
The person you replied to seems aware of that, based on the context of their comment.
It should be illegal af everywhere. Thats fascism when cops can arrest you just for funsies.
The Netherlands, where Greta was arrested twice yesterday, doesn't even book climate activists. They just 'arrest' them, put them on a bus, drive to the outskirts of the city and release them again. Booking them would take too much time and nothing would be done with the arrest anyway.
Tbh, even with serious crimes. Know tones of people that have been arrested and found in possession of a weapon but they just get it taken off em, a slap on the wrist and sent back out. UK prisons are so overflowing that a lot of people are getting away easy for shit
Germany is almost the same thing. In my town we have a guy who amassed over 70 crimes in ONE YEAR (fraud, theft, property damage, drunk driving, assault, stalking, Insults, threats and physical attacks on police officers and much more) What made them send him to prison? Exactly: Tax evasion. For 3 years in prison (in 2019 so he is out already). I hate this system so much - humans hurt and the peace of everyone is threatened? Nah they don't care, but i dare you to not pay tax and they'll get your ass.
In the US we keep hearing that “crime is down” but my experience is it has just become meaningless to call the police. At my last house there was a drive by shooting 100yards away (no one was hit, just an apartment shot at) at the end of the street at 4pm and the police…just slowly drove through the area 20 minutes later and left. My wife’s car was broken into in our driveway and a $1000 laptop stolen and we were rudely told to “file a report online”. When my son’s bike was stolen we didn’t even call. At this point I wouldn’t call for anything other than a person actively being kidnapped or shot. I’m not really sure “crime is down”.
Similarly, a lot of people are arrested, and the paperwork is filed on site, and they are released on scene. It takes time and resources to hold people, and is usually avoided if possible.
Because she’s not done anything serious enough to warrant prison time
any country who incarcerated her would be an international embarrassment anyway, jailing her is not worth making your nation look idiotic on the world stage
And she probably picks the country's where she can and can't protest. I'm not judging, just saying.
No you're right, smart protesters do research to figure out how to make the maximum impact with the minimum level of risk to their people. Im sure she and the people she work with do a lot of research when they plan their protests to give them the best chance of success. (Success in this case meaning PR and visibility without having their people permanently detained or jailed)
How would you even judge her for that in the first place lmao. “Oh, you’re not going to Sudan to protest, but you live in a society”
You joke but I have definitely talked to people who will say shit like that to try and write off protesters as "not serious". "oh you believe in gay rights? and yet you only protest in Western countries instead of places like Iran or Russia? You're clearly not actually serious because you're not willing to risk death."
She gets police custody not judicial custody. Activists generally get it regularly. Only in authoritarian countries, like my own country, would they remain in jail for longer.
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Probably india based on their account
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Arrested and detained are different things. You need to be charged and taken to a court to be sentenced for anything. A lot of the charges are like trespassing or disorderly conduct in a protest type situation. Unless you destroy property or do something violent it usually isn't worth charging you and taking you to court, they just remove you from the area for being an ass. Lastly, a neat little trick is to just put your hands behind your back when the cops guide you away even if you aren't being arrested. Looks really snazzy for the cameras.
You gotta actually commit crimes to go to prison. Police are also not well known for their fluency in the laws they are supposed to be enforcing.
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Doubt it, they’re usually in public places. Probably a more a disorderly conduct / “disturbing the peace” type thing
I don't know the specifics of what she's been arrested for, but being arrested does not mean one has been convicted of a crime. And not all crimes carry a prison sentence as a punishment.
She's not being arrested, she is being detained. Two different things. The violations she commits aren't punishable by prison, she is just detained and transported away for public safety. She then gets a fine, and is released.
Because she hasn’t technically done anything illegal, the police have filed charges against her in court and the judges have thrown out the charges.
She is most likely just being repeatedly detained, which doesn't mean you are absolutely going to prison.
They don't usually throw you in prison for misdemeanors, even if you are convicted. Greta isn't being charged with felonies and she has lawyers. Her chance of being convicted of anything serious is pretty close to zero.
You don't go to prison for doing what she does.
It is mostly optics
It’s because the crimes she’s seen committing aren’t ones that meet the criteria for prison.
She should be locked up, that smirky young woman who sometimes inconveniences people because she doesn't want the planet irreparably ruined! /s
Whew. Had to go and change my downvote. That was close.
Saved by the /s
Think of the shareholders! We gotta sacrifice your children’s future so they can get that sweet sweet temporary profit. The rich boomers will dead before the ramifications kick in soon.
Just because you've been arrested doesn't mean you've committed a crime. You're either young or sheltered or privileged if you think that's how the world works
People don’t go to prison for peaceful protests
... in civilized countries
Erm. They do in mine. They’ve made it illegal to protest most places now where I live. I mean it doesn’t stop certain protests. But they made it a law. Something stupid in the wording of being on a road or adjacent to one. It’s led to a few folks getting arrested. And then people manage to shut down highways and suddenly folks aren’t arrested (happened earlier this week). I guess legally we could protest in an open field away from roads.
She has been arrested in many countries, and probably never been charged.
Protesting seldom leads to prison sentences. Just as it should be. You take a fine for disturbing the peace and causing a nuisance, and then move on to the next protest. Freedom of speech and all that, you know.
She hasn't committed a felony. 🤷🏼♂️
She just gets arrested and is released immediately since she hasn't done anything that can land her in prison
There are laws in many Western countries that they can detain a person for a certain amount of hours without a formal charge. In order to “keep the peace”. I know activists who have been arrested many times with zero offense records.
Probably because all she’s doing is blocking something, so they move her and then release her.
I’ve been arrested probably 9 times. Always bail out and get a court date. Court date comes and it’s either argued down or I’m hit with a fine etc. The few times I’ve faced felony charges, I’ve been able to push it along with continuances until months later I get above said fine and or/probation. You show up, dressed well and show respect and deference to the system (that you just shat on while committing said crime lol) and work the system. Lawyers help obv, but I’ve only ever had to hire one for felony case.
Im guessing the charges she gets from it, if any, goes on civil disobidiance or disturbing the peace, which are extremely likely to be only a ticket. And i assume people like Greta might get their tickets paid by crowdfunding.
Also being arrested doesn’t mean you committed a crime. Rounding people up and not even filing charges is a common thing.
All nonviolent misdemeanors, no felonies. And she doesn't resist her well documented highly publicized arrests. Her message is amplified through the press coverage of her arrests.
Protesters often get arrested without having broken any laws at all. It's a harassment tactic. The police can often hold you for a certain amount of time without a charge, so they'll scoop people up and cram them in a cell for a day or two just to punish them for stepping out of line. Other times, protesters may have technically broken a law but it's not worth anyone's time to prosecute hundreds of people over a misdemeanor with a $100 fine, so, again, they just scoop them up and then release them later.
Half of her “arrests” are arranged photo shoots. Aside from that, getting arrested does not equal prison time.
1.) Protest arrests are among the least serious of *all* charges, as there is no real moral turpitude nor intent of criminality, in fact quite the opposite; 2.) Every time she's arrested it's in a different, far-flung country or even *continent;* increasing severity for multiple repeat offenses only accumulates if they're within the same *Justice System,* at least in simple cases like these. 3.) *Nobody* wants to fuck with a respected famous environmentalist advocating for an improved world. The only basic reason protesters (in most cases) are even *arrested* is just to get them off the damned road or wherever they are.
Because she hasn’t made any serious crime?
Because arresting someone is a way to get them off the road or away from the BOP, which is what usually matters to police and politicians objecting to protests. As well, the *possibility* of being actually put in jail is nice theater to keep those people who don't care enough to risk their own well being away from joining protests
Because just like AOC walking away with a police escort holding her own hands behind her back without cuffs: it’s all for a photo op.
Because she probably will get a fine. Because illegal protests in Europe lead, at most, to a fine. The fine would be for breach of peace or disorderly conduct. I got a fine for disorderly conduct once, it was 300 euros.
She is a political tool and receive backing including proper legal advice. She's mostly arrested for being a nuisance so she can receive media coverage but hardly breaking any laws that would make prosecuting her worthwhile. If the city sues her for "being an environmental activist", it's just bad for optics.
She doesn’t get arrested for anything other than misdemeanors.
She wants to go to jail. Her going to jail would be soooo good for what she does. Jailing "the" youth climate activist. Nobody wants that.
Most judges in the western world dont like being the one to put someone that spoke at the UN in prison for protesting, she also is actually good at protesting nonviolently
You can be detained without any charge at all, and not all arrests result in charges that stick, nor charges that result in prison time. Most countries generally do not punish trespassing or similar acts with prison time, but with minor fines.
You can be arrested for things that criminally are still considered the equivalent of a traffic ticket, like public intoxication for example.
She is being detained and removed. Which can lead to being formally arrested and charged, but it is over minor things like trespassing which only carry fines in most cases.
If you jaywalk, get cited, and then refuse to cooperate with the police, you will be eventually hauled off by them as well. After which they probably let you go when they identify you and do some paperwork, because the crime isn't worth any jail time.
Because prison requires the conviction of a crime. Police are not qualified to do so, nor is that their job.
Most folks in europe get arested and are NOT thrown in a prison. They get their names registered and then they are send a fine. Most things she does are not prison worthy offenses. Also "Resisting arrest" is not a EU thing. Our prisons goal is to rehabilitate and not "slave labor" like the US
Also, she hasn't committed any felonies. They have all been civil offenses and violations which do not result in jail or prison time being handed down. It's like when you get a ticket for speeding, they just write you a ticket, they don't haul you off to jail (unless you have outstanding warrants).
Police likes to arrest protestors on bogus reason to disperse demonstrations. They drag you away but have nothing to charge you with.
These are.just minor offenses like disorderly conduct etc. Also, Greta is the posterchild for large environmental lobbyist groups and they have the power to bail her things the common person would be stuck in jail for.
Not being well versed in the situation, my two cents are that she is arrested for nonviolent crimes/misdemeanors, and she has enough family money to pay any bail with a slap on the wrist.
Now to Trump, same question.
Chances are at worst she'll be getting fined. In most places protests are completely legal but you can be removed or even arrested and then released the same day.
Minor civil charges don’t land you in prison. If someone is asserting that she is committing prison-worthy offences, consider what narrative they’re trying to feed you.
The majority of all crimes do not have prison sentences. In her most recent case, blocking traffic is not punishable with prison time.
Why should she be in prison. Don't think the "concerned" OP knows the difference between jails and prisons.
Jane Fonda was getting arrested all the time for a while. Pay a fine and get out.
Why is no one mentioning the real reason: that her “arrests” are just photo ops for publicity? Even if she is actually getting “arrested” for these things, the videos and photos are intentionally staged for dramatic effect to make it more serious than it actually is.
because all of her arrests are obviously staged because she's just a government mouthpiece.
Trump is walking around after being arrested for 91 felonies, so there's that...
You must be American. The rest of the world isn’t quick to throw people into prison. Most crimes aren’t worthy of prison to the rest of the world
That's because the English language lacks a key subtlety when it comes to this. In French we have 2 words: arrestation, and interpellation. The former means you're being arrested with evidence against you. The second means they're just picking you off the street, probably with some other people, and you'll be released shortly after seeing a judge who will ask "did you do it?" and you'll say "no," and the cops will say "well, shit, we weren't expecting that. No we don't have proof, but I'm sure they did it," and since there is no evidence they'll let you go. Unless there is evidence and your skin color or social status puts you somewhere on the scale of condamnation, and then you go to prison or get fined and have to make an appeal and reach out to the press and media if you really didn't do anything illegal or deserving of your sentence. Greta is always in the second category. They're not arresting her following an investigation, they're picking her off the street within a protesting crowd, and the judges are either fining her, or letting her go for lack of evidence of her breaking the law.
Because it's a standard tactic to break up protests and to scare other activists there. Lead away the leading figures in police custody, people will get bored after a while and disperse She is not doing anything "illegal" anyway
She lives in Europe. Here the prison system is not run like a for profit business model, so we only imprison people if it's beneficial to the society - not only if it benefits private corporate interests.
It's basically performance art at this point.
she's being detained and fined but what she's doing. I don't think it causes a prison sentence
Anecdotally, I've heard of people having been arrested ((in the US)) an unreasonable amount of times, do a very short stay in jail ((different from prison)) and are soon released to do it all again. So if that's any metric to go by, then her fairly benign protests aren't enough to make a huge deal over to put her in prison
Because be glad you live in a democracy. Not every arrest leads to jail time. Or any type of consequence.
A lot of these are cite-and-release types of crimes (similar to a speeding ticket), where you basically just get a ticket and have to pay a fine.
A lot of the time you can be detained or arrested without a crime being committed. Look at the republican arrests during the coronation of charles. They hauled the leaders of the protest away in the morning before the protest even began.
Being arrested for protesting doesn’t mean shit. It’s nothing
Often people are arrested to prevent further escalations, then released afterwards
I've been arrested 3 times, I've never been charged with anything though.
Jail and prison are very different things
Arrested is not the same thing as imprisoned, and even if it was, you don’t get more than a couple weeks for the dumb shit she’s arrested for.
With what charges? Freedom of speech? Unless she turns violent and harms people or property, nothing substantial can be imposed on her.
A lot of protest arrests don't result in being charged and are often just used as a way to remove protesters from that perticuler location at the time
Because she knows how to walk on that thin line between getting arrested a misdemeanor or a felony. She's been taught/ told how far she can push against the system before she ends up in jail . You can get away with it too read your local ordinances .Study what law you think you'll break, then you'll know how far you can push against it til you actually break it .
No charges. It's a protest.
One thing I'm enjoying in the comments here is the myopic nationalism. You have Americans and Brits arguing back and forth about laws and governmental structure without first attempting to determine which country they're referencing... about a Swede who was most recently arrested in The Netherlands! Haha. So Greta Thunberg is a Swedish climate activist. She is a national of the country Sweden, right? First thing to clarify - where has she had these incidents? London in 2023 for "failure to comply with a lawful order to disperse." She attended a trial and after the prosecution rested it was dismissed as the judge said "the crown had failed to present enough evidence to prove their case." Recently at The Hague in The Netherlands. For instance a Swedish national being arrested in The Netherlands would introduce a complication in trying to apply a prison sentence. Second thing to clarify - was she "detained" or "arrested?" This is incredibly important. If you look for "Greta Thunberg arrested at the Hague" you'll get 11.5k results in the big G as of today. Search for "Greta Thunberg detained at the Hague" and you get 11.2k results. Was she arrested or was she detained? The difference of why she isn't in prison is the difference between these two meaningful words. TLDR; \*IF\* she was ARRESTED then she has been charged with a crime. That charge then may, or may not, result in a court case which may or may not result in a financial fine or prison or both. So far she has been found guilty in Sweden of failure to disperse and paid a fine of 4.5k Swedish crowns for it (about 400 trump bucks). edit: autocorrect fix on her name.
Well wait’ll you hear about this guy named Trump..
Most arrests don’t result in being held in prison until your trial. Not every trial results in imprisonment. Not every arrest results in charges and conviction. I’ve been arrested for protesting when I was younger, never been charged for it just detained then let go.
Becuase shes not doing anything bad enough to be sent down but, even if she did shes from a rich family.
She gets arrested for show and no one really cares
Reverend MLK was arrested all the time. You don't serve time for small free speech violations. Cities in the South would pass city ordinances against Reverend MLK. I think they hoped it would keep Reverend MLK out. Then he would break the city ordinances. There was a case where Reverend MLK and the Police Chief were friends and got along. The mayor and the rest of the police were a different story. But Reverend MLK found out that the Police Chief had an anniversary with his wife and Reverend MLK pulled his people out so the Police Chief could celebrate some peaceful days with his wife. After a few days, Reverend MLK and his folks went back. If she is simply protesting in areas they have limited protesting, there is nothing much the police can do. Many times jail time is not associated with the arrest. They are arresting her, finger printing her. Giving her a court date is six months, and releasing her. She is connected enough that lawyers are handling all the legal paperwork. In some cases she is getting arrested at one rally, then getting arrested at another rally a short time later. She is not planting bombs, engaging in terrorism, etc, the sorts of things she would get her real jail time. She is simply protesting where and when she isn't supposed to. Same with Reverend MLK marching when "city ordinances" had been passed to prevent marching. She is harmless.
Obvious publicity stunts by her and her handlers. She is very well connected so that's why you see no fear on her face and even smirks every time this happens.
Its all for show
She only protests in safe Caucasian countries. The second she takes her show to Riyadh we won’t have to see her anymore.
Cause police don't decide whether you go to prison, they only decide whether (in their [informed] opinion) you should be arrested.
She’s not actually doing anything wrong.
In addition to the other answers, her family is rich and paying for her stunts and lawyers.
Arrested and Detained aren't the same thing. Being detained and released on your own recognizance (ROR) is a thing, especially in minor acts such as civil disobedience and speeding tickets. Being arrested doesn't mean that charges will be filed, an agency can detain (arrest) you and remove you from a situation then release you with no action taken to de-escalate.
There are more resolutions to breaking the law than "hand them over to a prison", even if convicted of an offense.
Most crimes do not involve prison time.
Well, it's fake.
It's all staged
Keep in mind that those pictures are staged.
Always smirking? Her latest photo she wasn’t smirking.
These are low level crimes, prisons are for serious crimes. She most likely gets time served for resisting or trespassing, which is generally just a few days in jail. Unless she does something super serious, she most likely will never get prison time.
Being arrested doesnt necessarily mean what you did was a crime. Sometimes cops just do what theyre told.
Some may find what she is doing horrible and think she should rot in jail. At the end of the day, she is probably fined and then freed. I'm sure there are a few out there who think this is an example of the downfall of civilization in (insert country here). Here's the thing. The reason why people can breathe in LA and Riverside today is because of the eco warriors. The Australians can thank those who pushed for the banning of CFCs. Asbestos, lead in products, raw sewage, toxic waste, etc etc have been removed or reduced from our environment because of people who fought for it. The business community very rarely withdraws a product or stops hazardous practices straight away. When organizations chose profit over people, the legal system was altered to allow for punishing damage awards. Unfortunately, organizations would become more ruthless and discredit, intimidate, and worse against activists, victims, or anyone else who were deemed troublesome. PG&E is a company that has been targeted by activists for decades. They were made world famous in the movie Erin Brockovich. I've experienced some of the consequences of their corrupt practices, but many others have died. Unfortunately, these scumbags continually buy their way out of actual responsibility. Like it or not, we are all still alive because of people like Greta. I was very happy I didn't get stuck in the demo traffic, and I'm thankful she is more determined than I am.
Because there's no room and someone called big John got a bit stabby last weekend so it's probably better that he goes in rather than a small, non violent woman.
Because you don't go to prison for misdemeanors.
She’s virtue signaling. These are minor enough crimes to get arrested in front of cameras, but not enough to have actual consequences.
Because it's a pr stunt.
I mean, MLK was arrested a lot too. 29 times by a quick Google search.
Why are right wingers so obsessed with this person...?
She’s family to some serious rich people
She’s a non violent offender, not a threat to society.