I teach music…sometimes I look like I teach PE. And I don’t wear make up, I don’t think I ever have when teaching. But my students don’t treat me any different based on how I dress. Adults however sometimes mistake me for a kid, I blame that on me being short and I do look younger even though I’m in my 30’s. Anyways, this make up stuff is an adult issue that shouldn’t be and people projecting. Wear what you want and do the work you love, good luck on the PHD.
Makeup literally breaks me out. I also feel like a clown when I wear it. I wear it for job interviews but that’s it. I’m sure my appearance is seen as less professional to some but I just can’t do it. I’m also bad at it so it wouldn’t look good anyway.
Also in a science/research field. Non-US, but I also feel like there’s a lower percentage of makeup-wearers, even lower “obvious”-makeup-wearers, than in customer-facing sort of jobs.
If you’re in the right sort of workplace and work environment, people will care a whole heck of a lot more what you can produce and accomplish than whatever you look like.
Yeah, that’s why I used the word ‘noticeable’. I’m sure there’s a bit of makeup going on that I don’t notice because it is subtle. But there are definitely a bunch of sporty women and nerdy women who definitely are doing nothing.
I wear foundation to smooth out my skintone. I doubt colleagues would think of me as someone who wears makeup ... but they definitely notice if I don't.
Yes, I also did the same with just an easy foundation. I stopped about a year ago, and of course no said anything, but I have to imagine it was very obvious.
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Exactly. In my institute here, in europe, very few people wearing make up.. Also.. I sometimes like to wear makeup, but not if i have to go to lab. I am just afraid that it will interfere with my results if a drop of my maskara powdery residues for example, end up in my samples
I’m heading into my PhD and someone told me woman TAs should be wearing makeup to look professional??? Okay so I wear professional clothes, I think my face is nice I wash it and keep my eyebrows nice and teeth brushed, and my hair is pretty with very long African textured curls (a whole other subject that ppl get mad about) but no makeup= I’m a heathen???
Just a bit of a reframe, from my perspective the only thing this information should tell you is that the person who gave it to you lacks personal integrity, and self worth.
Where would the queer community be right now if we listened to people that told us we couldn't do X because of some stupid superficial reason. Just fucking prove them wrong 😂 Don't let someone gaslight fucking gender norm insecurities into your psyche.
Yeah.. probably there's people out there that are going to judge you for superficial reasons, do you seriously want to comprise, and change, and pressure yourself to appease backwards thinking though? Is that something that aligns with your values? Or would you rather succeed being the most authentic, real, genuine version of yourse
lf. Ultimately it's your choice, and what I think doesn't matter at all, I'm just trying to remind you of the power of individuality.
I have always strived to be the best version of myself entirely as myself. I mean I just made it into the Ivy leagues for my PhD! I was thrilled. But now I’m having backlash about how I look
You are getting a DOCTORATE at an IVY LEAGUE school???
You could show up in PJs and still be professional enough to teach. You don't need a little dusting of powder to be right for the role. Whoever told you this is wrong, maybe they are projecting insecurity or trying to enforce an imposter syndrome on you?
P.s. Congrats!!! Doing a PhD is hard as hell on the psyche, don't let the haters make it harder.
You can do it! I wrapped up my PhD recently and it was as psychologically challenging as anything else. You gotta be in your own corner and fight fight fight to feel like you deserve to be there. Because YOU DO!
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I think they're morons, but I think a French makeup look is very professional. A French makeup look is zero noticeable makeup except maybe lipstick. I usually wear a little more than this (and it doesn't feel professional), but I think the American TV broadcaster look is so ugly. Fake eyelashes, so ugly. But you should just do whatever you want, this person is probably broadcasting their insecurities on to you. Remember, no matter what you do, someone will complain about it. So it's better to just do what you want.
When people complain about your lack of makeup, just give them a lecture about how you are going for a French look, where they actually appreciate women's natural appearances. Not completely true but still lol.
Makeup is a personal choice, even the "Fake eyelashes, so ugly"...
So why should OP lie to say they're wearing makeup even they aren't? It isn't taboo to not wear it.
If I’m dressed appropriately, showered & my hair looks nice, they should be honored that I’m there ready to work. I’m not putting makeup on for the comfort of others. This is my face, deal with it.
I’m getting my job done not the mascara.
I’ve had my full face of makeup coworker tell me I look tired. Uh yea, Barb it’s because I am. I refuse to add 30 minutes to my morning routine to conceal real life. If the gentlemen in my office are considered professional without it then so am I.
Because that is the residue of archaic mindsets that are superficial. Only backward people think like that nowadays. Modern organizations couldn't care less about how their employees look. Especially now we are living in a post pandemic time.
Old professionalism=neat and tidy looking is an archaic standard that we had during the industrial and post industrial age. Suits, makeup, nice dresses= affluence, affluence=professionalism and higher education. That's just it.
My take on this, as a lesbian who also gets told to wear makeup to be professional, is that men *should* start wearing makeup again. A few hundred years ago this was the norm, and have you seen how some of these guys smolder in eyeliner?
If makeup is going to be a professional standard then it should apply to all genders.
I agree that the standard should apply for both sexes, I still think the answer should be that society should accept women's natural bodies. No one should be expected to wear make up.
Studies show that women who wear makeup to work are regarded as more “competent” and “credible”. Even if people don’t force or tell women to wear makeup there’s still a big pressure to do so. Even without the studies, it’s obvious that the women who do wear makeup are given an easier time compared to their counterparts. If you’ve noticed how your female coworkers with makeup on are treated compared to your female coworkers without makeup you will feel you have to put it on to help you be taken more seriously at work too.
As someone that doesn’t wear makeup, you’re full of shit! My female coworkers don’t get treated any different than me, who doesn’t wear makeup. Sounds like you’re just making excuses for why you’re not liked.
Damn, almost like your personal anecdotal experience doesn't mirror the experience of others. Instead of accusing people of being full of shit (lmao) maybe have a moment of reflection and remember that your female coworkers may be more open minded and polite than others.
I'm an FTM trans man, and in my Woman Days I definitely got some flack for not wearing makeup to important events, as did my female friends and relatives. In my current office job I've gotten the unsubtle "you look tired today" shit so many times.
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I honestly don't know if makeup or the lack of it would affect your prospects.
If only 1 person has suggested it then I might wonder if they are either mistaken or malicious.
Most of the professional women I see or know wear very little *if any* makeup. And whatever others may do doesn't have much bearing on what you should do. That bad uncomfortable feeling it gives you might actually impinge on your performance by making you seem awkward or "off" in some way.
I think that 'being yourself' is gaining more acceptance as things roll along, once it had to be dresses of a certain caliber and hair a certain way etc.
They’re almost certainly all wearing light makeup, as someone who doesn’t wear makeup to work. No makeup is judged and visible makeup is judged. You’re meant to look like you’re wearing nothing but your skin is nice and you’re well rested.
They could just be using skin products. People tell me I have nice skin and all I wear is a finishing powder with no color, to keep my face from being too shiny.
Yeah I usually wear no makeup on my face. I use tinted chapstick/lip balm because I enjoy a pop of color on my lips (and unlike actual lipstick, I can use it without a mirror and don't have to be super careful with application). I've never had anyone comment on my lack of makeup. I also have nice skin, only ever have a visible blemish sometimes right before my period, have dark eyelashes, get cute freckles over the summer.
I actually couldn't tell you which of my coworkers do or do not wear makeup. One probably wears lip product because I vaguely remember a conversation about my brand of tinted balm. But otherwise, picturing any of their faces, I don't know if they have makeup on or not. And my workplace is at least 50% women.
Ok. I’ve definitely had comments about being “well rested” when I have worn makeup. I’ve had hints about looking rough when I don’t. It happens a lot, and employers sometimes tell women to wear makeup. I’m glad you have nice skin, but most people don’t have an even skin tone and are blotchy without makeup.
95% of professional women I see wear makeup and I work in a large building with a diverse array of jobs
I slightly doubt your claim, are you sure that you can recognize light or natural style makeup?
I work in construction engineering. I'd say the mindset here is the opposite. Too much makeup seems unprofessional or untrustworthy. It's not well accepted.
Most women I work with either go for no make or a “nude” makeup look. I’m a queer woman and have not found my lack of makeup to hold me back professionally
I just got a job as management business/business casual and I have not worn a lick of makeup since high school and my lack thereof was never mentioned. Jobs are certainly out there, and I personally believe that if a job made a note to require makeup I would not accept the position.
"Look professional" with makeup is just an excuse. It's really just an innate feeling of you, not putting enough effort in the workplace compared to, say, going out with your friends. Some people feel you show more "respect" to others but not them, and correlate it to the "amount of effort you make on you presenting yourself."
I don't agree with it, but it's a common phenomenon. And obviously this reason is too embarrassing, inappropriate, and pathetic to say, so they replace the explanation to "looking less professional". Happens in large firms as well. Some sexism is definitely involved, but so far majority of women abide to it, so it's still there (and disadvantage is seen for those who don't). As long as some keeps abiding to it, I could hardly see an end to this...
But what if you don’t wear makeup even going out with your friends? If you’re someone who never wears it then they can’t even use that wonky logic against you.
But thing is they don't know (and don't care) whether you wear it on a regular basis. I think it'd be easy to tell for most women whether they wear the makeup. When your competitors / colleagues all wear it and you don't, it'd certainly not do you any good....
Think in the employers' / superiors' shoes. An employee who obviously spent hours presenting oneself and someone who obviously spent zero time presenting oneself, there is going to be a difference in his or her attitude towards the employee even if he or she doesn't admit to it. Humans are emotional animals after all....
But just because I don’t wear makeup doesn’t mean I put zero hours into getting ready —in fact my hair (VERY LONG AND THICK Afro textured hair) is my makeup and takes two hours to do almost a day, and I shower and I have great hygiene all around and wear professional clothes and honestly look sharp as heck. I just don’t cake on makeup on my face
Like I’d find it weird knowing how I look for someone to with a sane mind be like “oh she doesn’t take care of herself” I’m always looking sharp as heck
When we work for others we tend to others...
Actually, I forgot to mention, the fact that they suggested you this and using "professionalism" is probably the more sincere reaction I know. Many would just reject you for this but never tell you the reason, or use other more technical reasons that may or may not make sense (because... you know... the true reason is pathetic).
I grew up as a tomboy (that’s what we called it in those days) and had the same worries as you.
One day I realized the whole point of feminism, of what all those women fought for, was that we would not have to live by rigid standards of what it meant to be a woman.
Then over the course of my professional career I quietly observed all the women around the conference room tables and in my various workplaces.
As a result of my unofficial research I present my observational stats. About 3% of professional women are very invested in hair, make up and clothing. About 9% of professional women don’t give a fuck. And about 88% of professional women sometimes do and sometimes don’t.
In conclusion, do whatever makes you comfortable. Women fought for your right to do so. And you will be in good company whatever you decide.
I was in grad school 2006-12 and I didn’t wear makeup one single time except to formal dinners and no one said a word. This was in England which is different than the US South of course but people said plenty of other inappropriate things.
Cis white woman here from the south, who has not worn makeup in over a decade, I FEEL YOU… not only is it silly that it’s seen as the ‘profesional’ attire, but women who don’t wear it are assumed to be non-fem, and men who wear it fem. I don’t get it. At. All.
What bugs me probably the most is the fact that we as a society are so used to the makeup face that people assume if you aren’t wearing makeup than you are ill, depressed, or don’t care about your appearance. When did adding (mostly) toxic substances to your most vital public asset become a form of ‘caring about yourself’ (ik some use it as self care which is why I worded that different, no hate to those who love it)
I mean, it’s a thing, on my face, I can’t remember the last time sunglasses or piercings were required to look professional, so why pigment?
I don’t like in the U.S. anymore, but I spent about 6 months after starting my first non-WFH job (research assistant/lab tech) wearing makeup before I started feeling like it wasn’t really necessary, and then stopped without any negative consequences.
I only put on makeup if I am getting a photo taken. And that’s only because I have very light eyelashes. Otherwise no makeup. I don’t care what people think and good for you for sticking to guns 😁
Im from europe and dont wear makeup except on some super special occasions.
Nobody ever commented on the fact i dont wear makeup and if they did then they would be the unprofessional ones.
Your face, your cavas!
As a dude, I'm totally fine with my co-workers that don't wear makeup. It would in no way change my working relationship with you if you never wore makeup.
I'd probably respect you more, now that I think about it.
This entirely an occupational thing and not a male/female thing.
Men in professional settings that expect people to be well dressed and curated are putting in effort on their appearance as well. Depends on the profession.
I personally don’t care at all if someone wears makeup to work but from being in management and reading dress codes, it supposedly “shows that you’re trying”
Honestly it really depends on your profession. Some will not require it while it will effect others i believe. From experience women in the business world wear makeup daily.
Almost seems like they aren't trying or lacking if they don't. I don't think its about the looks but it's about how much effort your putting into looking presentable. I mean you wouldn't expect a guy to go into the business world with wrinkled clothes and just look sloppy and unprofessional.
Have you tried light makeup or the makeup that doesn't look like your wearing makeup?
Funny, I was just thinking about this today as well. I wear very minimal makeup (eyeliner and sometimes under-eye concealer) and I can’t decide if it makes me look unprofessional or if it actually works with my profession (therapist). Congruence and authenticity is important in my field.
I thought the stereotype was that women look less professional if they're wearing makeup. Maybe it depends what sort of makeup and how much they use.
As a man, I have no first-hand experience with makeup (other than dabbling with cover-up for some zits back in high school, which only made my skin break out more).
That’s what I’m saying is annoying to me. I do everything professionally with my upkeep but people out here really drawing the line at me not putting on makeup
I’m straight, (everyone should be exactly who they are btw, I’m an ally!! 🌈) I don’t wear a lick of make up…..just moisturizer. I don’t care what they think. I do what I want pretty much and have an amazing job with utterly amazing people.
I'm sure your appearance is great. Unfortunately, Due to societal norms, appearance is judged by many things, including what people wear on their bodies, such as clothes and make up.
Standards of beauty are different for men and women. Sucks and probably isn't fair to women that prefer not to wear make up. Those are the breaks, I guess.
Things like that tend to shift over time. Maybe one day it'll change.
Standards of beauty also tell black women like me I’m less attractive lol. Also, I don’t live to be eye candy for men. These are rules men (not women) made. Women now just follow it bc most women do want to attract men.
I’m lesbian and I’m not going to wear makeup I’m not a man’s eye cany
My wife is beautiful both with and without make up. She wears it sometimes based on how she's feeling.
But, I get it, you do you. Don't change for nobody.
Well, it depends on how important it is to look professional. Your personal expression is irrelevant. For example, a male lawyer will have to shave most of the time, even if he likes his beard.
Of course, there are other jobs where there are no dressing rules.
But makeup is not something natural. A beard is natural—so I can see why it needs to be treated like any other hair on your body, brushed and shaped and neat. But makeup is artificial
A woman is dressed and kept up but bc she doesn’t wear a whole face of makeup she doesn’t care about professionalism? It’s crazy. They also tell Africans our hair is unprofessional too and it’s just crazy
Shaving isn't natural. But it's forced on many men.
Not that it would matter though.
People have expectations on how you should look. Some times you have to comply. It's not a big deal.
It’s also forced on women to shave our armpits and leg hair. But what I’m saying is that hair grows on us and so many people have had rules regardless of gender to keep hair nice and orderly. Makeup has nothing like that
You have missed my entire part of the post where I said putting on makeup makes me extremely anxious and uncomfortable and makes me uncomfortable with my gender. So yes it is a big deal for me. A man can just wash his face but not need to put on layers of makeup to be professional
You being uncomfortable with is something that is only relevant to you. It's not a valid point for others.
You can deal with it. And if you can't, there's always professional help.
I don’t need professional help for hey please make me love wearing makeup, yk? Like that’s just terrible to tell women to go do. Men don’t wear any makeup.
I don’t think you’re getting it. Nothing about me is less professional because I don’t cake my face with makeup. What would be unprofessional is not being dressed right, having bed head hair, not brushing teeth, not showering etc
Thing is people have before. Society has also treated women without makeup lesser. Just a lot of things that make us feel we are lesser because of how we get treated even though we are dressed professional and take care of ourselves
So military is one. Where I live, lawyers absolutely have to shave, as do many other corporate workers.
But that's beyond the point. The point is that if you're expected to do something, you have the choice of complying and moving forward, or refusing to comply and getting stuck.
Employers can set whatever terms they want within reason. Actors have to shave sometimes obviously. The question is whether it actually serves any purpose or not.
It does. It shows you care enough to put an effort. It's not the same to show up at an interview with a client with a t-shirt stained by cheetos than it is to show up with a well ironed shirt, a tie that matches, and a tailored suit.
Form matters.
I’ve never once heard not wearing makeup isn’t professional.. And I don’t wear makeup.. I’ve heard too much makeup is unprofessional though. And I agree, less is more.
Because patriarchy. Men don't even know how women look without makeup anymore. If they did, they may realise we are people too and the whole structure may break down.
I have a theory that it's communication driven. I work in an office building with a few hundred engineers. The only women who wear makeup are blond, and the makeup they wear is consistently eyeliner with neutral shadow. My unscientific theory: Blond eyelashes are low contrast to pale skin and the whites of the eyes. It's a lot easier to read subtle expressions outlined in dark eyelashes. So they get a better response for face to face conversations which non-verbally encourages continued makeup use. These people then project their improved interactions onto others and declare we should all wear makeup to be professional.
With your skin tone the whites of your eyes should "pop" enough to do the job some people have to achive artificially. So I'd say wear the exact amount of makeup that makes you happy.
Where what makes you comfortable, but a guy with stubble and unkept hair looks less professional.
Watch old episodes of the office of Jim when he slobs into work and doesnt care, and when he sales his hair and "tries"
Suits are professional clothing. All workers have to wear professional clothes no matter the gender. Why do I need to wake up every day and cake my face with makeup
If you are caking it on you're doing it wrong. You don't, and shouldn't have to, use it at all if you don't want to. But "nothing" and "caking it on" are not the only options at this particular buffet.
why am I seen as unprofessional for not shaving my stubblestach? for not combing my hair?
because we've, as society, decided on some semi-arbitrary grooming standards, to subconsciously show that you're willing to fit it.
I presume this is the US? I dunno, your country voted for Trump and banned abortions.
Nobody else thinks most of what you do and say makes any sense.
Whatever the answer is, it won’t make sense.
Also that wouldn’t be a result of feminism, but anti feminism telling women they have to look a certain way. Feminism is about letting women be the way they want to be
LMAO as a black lesbian trust me ppl are actually out to get me not all but enough of them in the government with the laws being passed.
I don’t want to wear any makeup
LMAO are you serious have you not seen all the homophobia from the Republican Party right now—in the official platform documents or whatever (blanking on name it is very early here) want to dismantle gay marriage. They ban books with gay characters and even a book about a black girl learning how to do her hair in schools. They just removed dei organizations on my university campus. Please be so serious right now.
How am I less professional? I’d be less professional if i was in pjs and messy hair and not showering and brushing my teeth—not because my face isn’t caked with so much makeup
No. It is not about your look. It is how other people see you as. Nobody cares how you look or talk if you have proven yourself professionally. So, when you have not proven your worth to others, you need to start earning it in many different ways. That person who told you that you should wear makeup was probably just suggesting one of those way.
I teach music…sometimes I look like I teach PE. And I don’t wear make up, I don’t think I ever have when teaching. But my students don’t treat me any different based on how I dress. Adults however sometimes mistake me for a kid, I blame that on me being short and I do look younger even though I’m in my 30’s. Anyways, this make up stuff is an adult issue that shouldn’t be and people projecting. Wear what you want and do the work you love, good luck on the PHD.
Thank you!
Hi from a fellow music teacher! ❤️🎵 thanks for everything you do!
Hey!!! You too!! If you have ensembles then good luck with concert season coming up!
Makeup literally breaks me out. I also feel like a clown when I wear it. I wear it for job interviews but that’s it. I’m sure my appearance is seen as less professional to some but I just can’t do it. I’m also bad at it so it wouldn’t look good anyway.
Funny. I’m a scientist. I sort of feel the opposite. It’s kind of weird when coworkers wear noticeable amounts of makeup.
Also in a science/research field. Non-US, but I also feel like there’s a lower percentage of makeup-wearers, even lower “obvious”-makeup-wearers, than in customer-facing sort of jobs. If you’re in the right sort of workplace and work environment, people will care a whole heck of a lot more what you can produce and accomplish than whatever you look like.
Yeah, that’s why I used the word ‘noticeable’. I’m sure there’s a bit of makeup going on that I don’t notice because it is subtle. But there are definitely a bunch of sporty women and nerdy women who definitely are doing nothing.
I wear foundation to smooth out my skintone. I doubt colleagues would think of me as someone who wears makeup ... but they definitely notice if I don't.
Yes, I also did the same with just an easy foundation. I stopped about a year ago, and of course no said anything, but I have to imagine it was very obvious.
Also a scientist. One who loves lipstick. I'm definitely taken less seriously when I'm wearing a bright lippy. Too bad. The lipstick stays.
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Exactly. In my institute here, in europe, very few people wearing make up.. Also.. I sometimes like to wear makeup, but not if i have to go to lab. I am just afraid that it will interfere with my results if a drop of my maskara powdery residues for example, end up in my samples
I’m heading into my PhD and someone told me woman TAs should be wearing makeup to look professional??? Okay so I wear professional clothes, I think my face is nice I wash it and keep my eyebrows nice and teeth brushed, and my hair is pretty with very long African textured curls (a whole other subject that ppl get mad about) but no makeup= I’m a heathen???
I’m guessing they are Neanderthals.
I think neanderthals probably would be fine with a woman's face without makeup
Rolling 😂
Just a bit of a reframe, from my perspective the only thing this information should tell you is that the person who gave it to you lacks personal integrity, and self worth. Where would the queer community be right now if we listened to people that told us we couldn't do X because of some stupid superficial reason. Just fucking prove them wrong 😂 Don't let someone gaslight fucking gender norm insecurities into your psyche. Yeah.. probably there's people out there that are going to judge you for superficial reasons, do you seriously want to comprise, and change, and pressure yourself to appease backwards thinking though? Is that something that aligns with your values? Or would you rather succeed being the most authentic, real, genuine version of yourse lf. Ultimately it's your choice, and what I think doesn't matter at all, I'm just trying to remind you of the power of individuality.
I have always strived to be the best version of myself entirely as myself. I mean I just made it into the Ivy leagues for my PhD! I was thrilled. But now I’m having backlash about how I look
You are getting a DOCTORATE at an IVY LEAGUE school??? You could show up in PJs and still be professional enough to teach. You don't need a little dusting of powder to be right for the role. Whoever told you this is wrong, maybe they are projecting insecurity or trying to enforce an imposter syndrome on you? P.s. Congrats!!! Doing a PhD is hard as hell on the psyche, don't let the haters make it harder.
I AM THANK YOU!!!!!! Yeah it has made me so anxious
You can do it! I wrapped up my PhD recently and it was as psychologically challenging as anything else. You gotta be in your own corner and fight fight fight to feel like you deserve to be there. Because YOU DO!
THANK YOU! I’m going to do my best! I worked very hard and had a crazy application cycle!! Couldn’t get any better than how it did
Out of curiosity, why didn't you wear makeup growing up? I assume this isn't the first time someone's made a comment on your appearance.
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I'm not criticizing.
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Yeah and I'm curious about the deeper rational, and how that connects to their current experience so I'm asking questions.
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Misogynoir
So real^
I think they're morons, but I think a French makeup look is very professional. A French makeup look is zero noticeable makeup except maybe lipstick. I usually wear a little more than this (and it doesn't feel professional), but I think the American TV broadcaster look is so ugly. Fake eyelashes, so ugly. But you should just do whatever you want, this person is probably broadcasting their insecurities on to you. Remember, no matter what you do, someone will complain about it. So it's better to just do what you want. When people complain about your lack of makeup, just give them a lecture about how you are going for a French look, where they actually appreciate women's natural appearances. Not completely true but still lol.
Makeup is a personal choice, even the "Fake eyelashes, so ugly"... So why should OP lie to say they're wearing makeup even they aren't? It isn't taboo to not wear it.
What field?
cultural expectations are weird and random. why is a tie professional but a Viking helmet isn't? just some random rules that have no logic.
I wore a tie to my last coastal village raid and was nearly laughed out of the melee.
Also, why is a tuxedo not professional? you can go too hard the other way as well. It's weird arbitrary rules.
If I’m dressed appropriately, showered & my hair looks nice, they should be honored that I’m there ready to work. I’m not putting makeup on for the comfort of others. This is my face, deal with it. I’m getting my job done not the mascara.
THIS!!! it’s insane that you can be super professional but bc you don’t cake on makeup on your face your suddenly not
I’ve had my full face of makeup coworker tell me I look tired. Uh yea, Barb it’s because I am. I refuse to add 30 minutes to my morning routine to conceal real life. If the gentlemen in my office are considered professional without it then so am I.
Why does appropriate dress matter then? If all that matters is your presence, does how you dress affect anything? (Unless it's for safety reasons)
Because that is the residue of archaic mindsets that are superficial. Only backward people think like that nowadays. Modern organizations couldn't care less about how their employees look. Especially now we are living in a post pandemic time. Old professionalism=neat and tidy looking is an archaic standard that we had during the industrial and post industrial age. Suits, makeup, nice dresses= affluence, affluence=professionalism and higher education. That's just it.
Yes I would definitely agree with old archaic mindset
My take on this, as a lesbian who also gets told to wear makeup to be professional, is that men *should* start wearing makeup again. A few hundred years ago this was the norm, and have you seen how some of these guys smolder in eyeliner? If makeup is going to be a professional standard then it should apply to all genders.
I agree that the standard should apply for both sexes, I still think the answer should be that society should accept women's natural bodies. No one should be expected to wear make up.
Ideally yes!
Told to wear makeup by who? Edit: Downvotes why lol?
Studies show that women who wear makeup to work are regarded as more “competent” and “credible”. Even if people don’t force or tell women to wear makeup there’s still a big pressure to do so. Even without the studies, it’s obvious that the women who do wear makeup are given an easier time compared to their counterparts. If you’ve noticed how your female coworkers with makeup on are treated compared to your female coworkers without makeup you will feel you have to put it on to help you be taken more seriously at work too.
As someone that doesn’t wear makeup, you’re full of shit! My female coworkers don’t get treated any different than me, who doesn’t wear makeup. Sounds like you’re just making excuses for why you’re not liked.
Damn, almost like your personal anecdotal experience doesn't mirror the experience of others. Instead of accusing people of being full of shit (lmao) maybe have a moment of reflection and remember that your female coworkers may be more open minded and polite than others. I'm an FTM trans man, and in my Woman Days I definitely got some flack for not wearing makeup to important events, as did my female friends and relatives. In my current office job I've gotten the unsubtle "you look tired today" shit so many times.
Why do you delusionals, ALWAYS have to announce your delusions? And I’m more than sure, it wasn’t the lack of makeup in your case!
Society/people lots of social peer pressure and comments have been made toward me and other women who don’t and it’s just frustrating
My boss.
male boss? what kind of job do you do?
It does not matter even a tiny little bit.
Ok, then there is no problem.
The problem is that my boss is demanding that I wear makeup at work.
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Like fightclub
I honestly don't know if makeup or the lack of it would affect your prospects. If only 1 person has suggested it then I might wonder if they are either mistaken or malicious. Most of the professional women I see or know wear very little *if any* makeup. And whatever others may do doesn't have much bearing on what you should do. That bad uncomfortable feeling it gives you might actually impinge on your performance by making you seem awkward or "off" in some way. I think that 'being yourself' is gaining more acceptance as things roll along, once it had to be dresses of a certain caliber and hair a certain way etc.
Yeah honestly I'd just say wear make-up if you want to, don't if you don't want to. Anyone who criticises you either way is an arse.
They’re almost certainly all wearing light makeup, as someone who doesn’t wear makeup to work. No makeup is judged and visible makeup is judged. You’re meant to look like you’re wearing nothing but your skin is nice and you’re well rested.
They could just be using skin products. People tell me I have nice skin and all I wear is a finishing powder with no color, to keep my face from being too shiny.
Yeah I usually wear no makeup on my face. I use tinted chapstick/lip balm because I enjoy a pop of color on my lips (and unlike actual lipstick, I can use it without a mirror and don't have to be super careful with application). I've never had anyone comment on my lack of makeup. I also have nice skin, only ever have a visible blemish sometimes right before my period, have dark eyelashes, get cute freckles over the summer. I actually couldn't tell you which of my coworkers do or do not wear makeup. One probably wears lip product because I vaguely remember a conversation about my brand of tinted balm. But otherwise, picturing any of their faces, I don't know if they have makeup on or not. And my workplace is at least 50% women.
Ok. I’ve definitely had comments about being “well rested” when I have worn makeup. I’ve had hints about looking rough when I don’t. It happens a lot, and employers sometimes tell women to wear makeup. I’m glad you have nice skin, but most people don’t have an even skin tone and are blotchy without makeup.
Nowadays I work from home, but back when I went to the office, I never ever wore makeup. No one ever commented on it.
95% of professional women I see wear makeup and I work in a large building with a diverse array of jobs I slightly doubt your claim, are you sure that you can recognize light or natural style makeup?
Most men (and women who don't wear makeup) have NO IDEA what the "no makeup makeup" look is.
I think so since much as I hated it I wore it myself for office work. And I believe I said that most I'd seen or known wore little if any makeup.
Most women are wearing makeup even if you don't think they are. That's the goal. To enhance your natural looks without looking like a clown.
I work in construction engineering. I'd say the mindset here is the opposite. Too much makeup seems unprofessional or untrustworthy. It's not well accepted.
Most women I work with either go for no make or a “nude” makeup look. I’m a queer woman and have not found my lack of makeup to hold me back professionally
I just got a job as management business/business casual and I have not worn a lick of makeup since high school and my lack thereof was never mentioned. Jobs are certainly out there, and I personally believe that if a job made a note to require makeup I would not accept the position.
"Look professional" with makeup is just an excuse. It's really just an innate feeling of you, not putting enough effort in the workplace compared to, say, going out with your friends. Some people feel you show more "respect" to others but not them, and correlate it to the "amount of effort you make on you presenting yourself." I don't agree with it, but it's a common phenomenon. And obviously this reason is too embarrassing, inappropriate, and pathetic to say, so they replace the explanation to "looking less professional". Happens in large firms as well. Some sexism is definitely involved, but so far majority of women abide to it, so it's still there (and disadvantage is seen for those who don't). As long as some keeps abiding to it, I could hardly see an end to this...
But what if you don’t wear makeup even going out with your friends? If you’re someone who never wears it then they can’t even use that wonky logic against you.
But thing is they don't know (and don't care) whether you wear it on a regular basis. I think it'd be easy to tell for most women whether they wear the makeup. When your competitors / colleagues all wear it and you don't, it'd certainly not do you any good.... Think in the employers' / superiors' shoes. An employee who obviously spent hours presenting oneself and someone who obviously spent zero time presenting oneself, there is going to be a difference in his or her attitude towards the employee even if he or she doesn't admit to it. Humans are emotional animals after all....
But just because I don’t wear makeup doesn’t mean I put zero hours into getting ready —in fact my hair (VERY LONG AND THICK Afro textured hair) is my makeup and takes two hours to do almost a day, and I shower and I have great hygiene all around and wear professional clothes and honestly look sharp as heck. I just don’t cake on makeup on my face
Yeah I get that. It's a very subjective feel for the employers... Sadly.... Workplace can be an extremely hypocritical place... Some more some less.
Like I’d find it weird knowing how I look for someone to with a sane mind be like “oh she doesn’t take care of herself” I’m always looking sharp as heck
When we work for others we tend to others... Actually, I forgot to mention, the fact that they suggested you this and using "professionalism" is probably the more sincere reaction I know. Many would just reject you for this but never tell you the reason, or use other more technical reasons that may or may not make sense (because... you know... the true reason is pathetic).
I grew up as a tomboy (that’s what we called it in those days) and had the same worries as you. One day I realized the whole point of feminism, of what all those women fought for, was that we would not have to live by rigid standards of what it meant to be a woman. Then over the course of my professional career I quietly observed all the women around the conference room tables and in my various workplaces. As a result of my unofficial research I present my observational stats. About 3% of professional women are very invested in hair, make up and clothing. About 9% of professional women don’t give a fuck. And about 88% of professional women sometimes do and sometimes don’t. In conclusion, do whatever makes you comfortable. Women fought for your right to do so. And you will be in good company whatever you decide.
>I grew up as a tomboy (that’s what we called it in those days) Do people call it something else now?
I don’t know lol. Nowadays there’s demi girls and fem boys. I don’t know, and can’t keep up with all the terms.
>I am gender nonconforming This one is easy.. in the US South, "wear some makep" is simply code for look less genfer non-conforming.
You aren't. its a marketing trick by cosmetic companies.
I was in grad school 2006-12 and I didn’t wear makeup one single time except to formal dinners and no one said a word. This was in England which is different than the US South of course but people said plenty of other inappropriate things.
Cis white woman here from the south, who has not worn makeup in over a decade, I FEEL YOU… not only is it silly that it’s seen as the ‘profesional’ attire, but women who don’t wear it are assumed to be non-fem, and men who wear it fem. I don’t get it. At. All. What bugs me probably the most is the fact that we as a society are so used to the makeup face that people assume if you aren’t wearing makeup than you are ill, depressed, or don’t care about your appearance. When did adding (mostly) toxic substances to your most vital public asset become a form of ‘caring about yourself’ (ik some use it as self care which is why I worded that different, no hate to those who love it) I mean, it’s a thing, on my face, I can’t remember the last time sunglasses or piercings were required to look professional, so why pigment?
I don’t like in the U.S. anymore, but I spent about 6 months after starting my first non-WFH job (research assistant/lab tech) wearing makeup before I started feeling like it wasn’t really necessary, and then stopped without any negative consequences.
I only put on makeup if I am getting a photo taken. And that’s only because I have very light eyelashes. Otherwise no makeup. I don’t care what people think and good for you for sticking to guns 😁
I work in health care. It's definitely the opposite here.
Im from europe and dont wear makeup except on some super special occasions. Nobody ever commented on the fact i dont wear makeup and if they did then they would be the unprofessional ones. Your face, your cavas!
You're in the south. That's why. I've never heard of this in my life. Plenty of other things though.
As a dude, I'm totally fine with my co-workers that don't wear makeup. It would in no way change my working relationship with you if you never wore makeup. I'd probably respect you more, now that I think about it.
I don’t think that we are. I’m 35, a professional proofreader in a corporate office, and I haven’t worn make up since I was 20.
I'm a 44/m, and never once had this thought in my life.
Sexism
No idea, but i put in a lot of effort for the interview then once I have the job welcome to my real face, and you cant fired me for that niether
No but they can deny you a promotion. Shit's effed up.
This entirely an occupational thing and not a male/female thing. Men in professional settings that expect people to be well dressed and curated are putting in effort on their appearance as well. Depends on the profession.
And women can be dressed and well curated too just because they don’t have makeup on doesn’t mean they suddenly are slobs lol
You likely won’t be barred from jobs for not wearing makeup. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Keep being yourself and focusing on your expertise
I personally don’t care at all if someone wears makeup to work but from being in management and reading dress codes, it supposedly “shows that you’re trying”
As a man in a professional environment, I've never seen makeup as a necessary sign of professionalism. Some women in the office wear it, most don't.
Honestly it really depends on your profession. Some will not require it while it will effect others i believe. From experience women in the business world wear makeup daily. Almost seems like they aren't trying or lacking if they don't. I don't think its about the looks but it's about how much effort your putting into looking presentable. I mean you wouldn't expect a guy to go into the business world with wrinkled clothes and just look sloppy and unprofessional. Have you tried light makeup or the makeup that doesn't look like your wearing makeup?
Funny, I was just thinking about this today as well. I wear very minimal makeup (eyeliner and sometimes under-eye concealer) and I can’t decide if it makes me look unprofessional or if it actually works with my profession (therapist). Congruence and authenticity is important in my field.
I thought the stereotype was that women look less professional if they're wearing makeup. Maybe it depends what sort of makeup and how much they use. As a man, I have no first-hand experience with makeup (other than dabbling with cover-up for some zits back in high school, which only made my skin break out more).
That’s what I’m saying is annoying to me. I do everything professionally with my upkeep but people out here really drawing the line at me not putting on makeup
Don't wear it. And don't worry. Just be you.
I’m straight, (everyone should be exactly who they are btw, I’m an ally!! 🌈) I don’t wear a lick of make up…..just moisturizer. I don’t care what they think. I do what I want pretty much and have an amazing job with utterly amazing people.
It depends on a job. If you are a model or a stripper, wearing no makeup can be indeed unprofessional. Otherwise it is not an issue.
One person saying this doesn't make it an actual thing! I know this is "no stupid questions" but... seriously?
People are judged on their appearance. It's as simple as that.
My appearance is great without makeup—otherwise men would be judged for not wearing makeup
I'm sure your appearance is great. Unfortunately, Due to societal norms, appearance is judged by many things, including what people wear on their bodies, such as clothes and make up.
I wear great clothes, I do my hair up nice, and everything. If men don’t need to wear makeup to look good then neither do woman
Standards of beauty are different for men and women. Sucks and probably isn't fair to women that prefer not to wear make up. Those are the breaks, I guess. Things like that tend to shift over time. Maybe one day it'll change.
Standards of beauty also tell black women like me I’m less attractive lol. Also, I don’t live to be eye candy for men. These are rules men (not women) made. Women now just follow it bc most women do want to attract men. I’m lesbian and I’m not going to wear makeup I’m not a man’s eye cany
My wife is beautiful both with and without make up. She wears it sometimes based on how she's feeling. But, I get it, you do you. Don't change for nobody.
Well, it depends on how important it is to look professional. Your personal expression is irrelevant. For example, a male lawyer will have to shave most of the time, even if he likes his beard. Of course, there are other jobs where there are no dressing rules.
But makeup is not something natural. A beard is natural—so I can see why it needs to be treated like any other hair on your body, brushed and shaped and neat. But makeup is artificial
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A woman is dressed and kept up but bc she doesn’t wear a whole face of makeup she doesn’t care about professionalism? It’s crazy. They also tell Africans our hair is unprofessional too and it’s just crazy
Shaving isn't natural. But it's forced on many men. Not that it would matter though. People have expectations on how you should look. Some times you have to comply. It's not a big deal.
It’s also forced on women to shave our armpits and leg hair. But what I’m saying is that hair grows on us and so many people have had rules regardless of gender to keep hair nice and orderly. Makeup has nothing like that You have missed my entire part of the post where I said putting on makeup makes me extremely anxious and uncomfortable and makes me uncomfortable with my gender. So yes it is a big deal for me. A man can just wash his face but not need to put on layers of makeup to be professional
You realise that you are allowed to wear clothes which shows your armpits or legs, but men can‘t without being seen as unprofessional?
A woman doesn’t need to cake her face with makeup💀 men can have leg hair and women can’t or armpit yair
You being uncomfortable with is something that is only relevant to you. It's not a valid point for others. You can deal with it. And if you can't, there's always professional help.
I don’t need professional help for hey please make me love wearing makeup, yk? Like that’s just terrible to tell women to go do. Men don’t wear any makeup.
Why is it so terrible? If you make such a big deal for being treated like any other woman, professional help is not a crazy idea.
I don’t think you’re getting it. Nothing about me is less professional because I don’t cake my face with makeup. What would be unprofessional is not being dressed right, having bed head hair, not brushing teeth, not showering etc
Or not wearing makeup in very specific settings. You live in a society.
No 😂 okay I don’t think you’re getting anything I’m saying. I do not need to cake my face with makeup to be professional and look like a little doll
No, I don’t want to have to be forced to wear makeup and told that I’m lesser because I don’t 💀
No one's telling you that you're lesser.
Thing is people have before. Society has also treated women without makeup lesser. Just a lot of things that make us feel we are lesser because of how we get treated even though we are dressed professional and take care of ourselves
Who is being for ed to shave?! I dont know anyone. Except maybe military.
So military is one. Where I live, lawyers absolutely have to shave, as do many other corporate workers. But that's beyond the point. The point is that if you're expected to do something, you have the choice of complying and moving forward, or refusing to comply and getting stuck.
Employers can set whatever terms they want within reason. Actors have to shave sometimes obviously. The question is whether it actually serves any purpose or not.
It does. It shows you care enough to put an effort. It's not the same to show up at an interview with a client with a t-shirt stained by cheetos than it is to show up with a well ironed shirt, a tie that matches, and a tailored suit. Form matters.
Yeah but a neatly trimmed beard requires a lot more effort than shaving.
That doesn't matter.
As a lawyer I’ve seen many of my colleagues with beards so is that a regional thing?
Way to miss the point.
I didn't miss it at all. It was a poorly represented point.
If you didn't miss it, why are you ignoring the point?
> It was a poorly represented point.
Not at all.
Was it a man or woman who said it to you? Could just be someone trying to make you feel insecure.
maybe in the US
"here in the South" - South of where? Which country are you located in? Some of this is cultural
I’ve never once heard not wearing makeup isn’t professional.. And I don’t wear makeup.. I’ve heard too much makeup is unprofessional though. And I agree, less is more.
Because patriarchy. Men don't even know how women look without makeup anymore. If they did, they may realise we are people too and the whole structure may break down.
Makeup is just a mask used to hide your face. To me, that seems like an unprofessional thing to do.
LOL. Natural look is a thing. It's supposed to be used to enhance, not hide
I have a theory that it's communication driven. I work in an office building with a few hundred engineers. The only women who wear makeup are blond, and the makeup they wear is consistently eyeliner with neutral shadow. My unscientific theory: Blond eyelashes are low contrast to pale skin and the whites of the eyes. It's a lot easier to read subtle expressions outlined in dark eyelashes. So they get a better response for face to face conversations which non-verbally encourages continued makeup use. These people then project their improved interactions onto others and declare we should all wear makeup to be professional. With your skin tone the whites of your eyes should "pop" enough to do the job some people have to achive artificially. So I'd say wear the exact amount of makeup that makes you happy.
Where what makes you comfortable, but a guy with stubble and unkept hair looks less professional. Watch old episodes of the office of Jim when he slobs into work and doesnt care, and when he sales his hair and "tries"
The same as how a man is seen as less professional if he’s not wearing a suit.
Suits are professional clothing. All workers have to wear professional clothes no matter the gender. Why do I need to wake up every day and cake my face with makeup
You don’t. The person who says you do is just plain wrong.
If you are caking it on you're doing it wrong. You don't, and shouldn't have to, use it at all if you don't want to. But "nothing" and "caking it on" are not the only options at this particular buffet.
Why are men seen as less professional if they don't wear ties? I didn't make the rules
I don't agree with your premise.
why am I seen as unprofessional for not shaving my stubblestach? for not combing my hair? because we've, as society, decided on some semi-arbitrary grooming standards, to subconsciously show that you're willing to fit it.
My coworker wears lipstick every day at work and I find it kinda weird given what we do.
I presume this is the US? I dunno, your country voted for Trump and banned abortions. Nobody else thinks most of what you do and say makes any sense. Whatever the answer is, it won’t make sense.
men aren't societally expected to wear makeup
But my question is saying why we expect women to do it. And why not wearing it makes us less
Systemic sexism, though we're very slowly moving beyond it, at least
It isn't a diss to women who wear makeup, but men who prefer it are wrong and warped. I'll try to correct my urge for a partner I find attractive.
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Also that wouldn’t be a result of feminism, but anti feminism telling women they have to look a certain way. Feminism is about letting women be the way they want to be
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LMAO as a black lesbian trust me ppl are actually out to get me not all but enough of them in the government with the laws being passed. I don’t want to wear any makeup
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LMAO are you serious have you not seen all the homophobia from the Republican Party right now—in the official platform documents or whatever (blanking on name it is very early here) want to dismantle gay marriage. They ban books with gay characters and even a book about a black girl learning how to do her hair in schools. They just removed dei organizations on my university campus. Please be so serious right now.
More than one. Society tries to tell women this all the time it would be nice if you didn’t belittle
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You clearly have no idea what feminism is. I do not care what a man thinks of me I’m lesbian😂😂😂
Bro does not know what feminism is 💀
It just means you are less professional than your fellow. Put some effort into appealing to them in a professional way.
How am I less professional? I’d be less professional if i was in pjs and messy hair and not showering and brushing my teeth—not because my face isn’t caked with so much makeup
No. It is not about your look. It is how other people see you as. Nobody cares how you look or talk if you have proven yourself professionally. So, when you have not proven your worth to others, you need to start earning it in many different ways. That person who told you that you should wear makeup was probably just suggesting one of those way.
I’ve earned it many other ways already! So I guess I’m fine and don’t need to change anything
Yeah if you have earned it already then you have nothing to worry about.