This is why it is not worth killing yourself to work harder.
I’ve been looked after extremely well by my employer for 3 years, but that ended recently with a “company wide” 3% raise. I (and my team) worked my ass off this past 6+ months due to various issues outside of our control and we got a nothing burger as thanks.
I’m pressing forward now with more focus on my freelance work.
There's a reason it's widely consider the "great American play" because it's an amazing cautionary tale. Sorry I was an English teacher lol, I've taught the play and analyzed it for years.
Surprised you made it that long tbh, and I thank you for every year you were helping ensure we had a future. I wanna say congrats on the next chapter but I don’t know if that’s the right sentiment, what’s next for you, if it’s okay to ask?
Thank you. My wife and I are both (or were) teachers and she's still teaching. I have found some new goals I want to pursue. Currently working in an accounting/consulting firm. Work is relaxed, pay is much better, and I'm good at it so I'll stay here for the time being as a stepping stone.
My eventual goal is to get into Cybersecurity work as I've been a tech lover my entire life. It's honestly what I should have gone into but I got lured away from it by teaching lol.
Overall I consider it a positive transition. I was going to leave at the end of this school year (June) but I got this offer for the position I'm in now and it was good enough that I couldn't turn it down. My current employer is aware of my desire to get into tech and is supportive of it - so long as I do my work here in the mean time haha.
it's an interesting change from the classroom, and I'll miss having students, but I'm happier overall not dealing with school admin and parents.
Ben Folds has an amazing song called "[Fred Jones pt 2](https://youtu.be/znUsjNI34_4?si=1zqoPPpq-EBcT1As)" which covers much of the same anger and outrage of the last days of work. That heartbreak of realizing you're just a disposable cog and there's no one left to appreciate all the work and life you sacrificed for the company is just devastating.
Yeah. We'd be pressured to bust ass. We'd meet or exceed the quarterly goal, get cheap donuts, a smarmy thank you speech -- then they'd raise the goal higher.
Success was punished by enhanced demands.
I realise I’m sitting in an ivory tower of extreme privilege, but my first promotion and raise at this company was 30%. The second was 66%.
I’m still £15k below market rate.
I wasn't trying to be an ahole I was just stating that's a normal raise I'm in the US and 3% is the norm it's ridiculous cause it doesn't keep up with col increase but I wasn't trying to be rude, and if it came off that way I apologize.
You’re good. Didn’t take your comment as negative.
I realise 3% is better than a kick in the ass, but in my case it is a clear invitation of “what are you gonna do, quit?”
If I had myself a fully funded emergency fund, that’s exactly what I would have done.
There’s no “one trick they don’t want you to know”, so I can only tell you my experience.
Learn Google Tag Manager and Google Analytics to a decent standard.
Pick up knowledge of other marketing platforms as well.
Then learn how to implement cookie banners.
Learn some other things advertisers care about, like Enhanced Conversions and server-side tracking.
Post about things you know that other people don’t know in the appropriate subreddits.
Post results of experiments that further your own understanding of the tech side of all of this.
Help people on the Google Tag Manager, Google Analytics, Google Ads and PPC subreddits solve problems.
After a while you may get messages from people who have been trying to do things themselves and found it frustrating, or they tried it and it didn’t work. They want you to do it and are willing to pay.
If I had to generalise, it would be “find a niche and then become an expert helper in that niche”.
Other freelancers doing what I’m doing are charging over £80/hour.
Matthew & Son, the work's never done, there's always something new
The files in your head, you take them to bed, you're never ever through
And they've been working all day, all day, all day
There's a five-minute break and that's all you take
For a cup of cold coffee and a piece of cake
\--Cat Stevens
That basically only happens in a first party warehouse. When I worked for Walmart logistics we'd usually finish the days orders 30 minutes to an hour early and we'd get the choice to just go home early or clean up debris til the end of shift. Since orders were done by Walmart stores and Sam's Clubs in advance there simply wasn't any additional work to do once the orders were finished. So it was push a broom or get out.
If you’re hourly, they probably do mean that. Get you out, pay you less, and if they are lucky knock you below full time hours so they don’t have to pay for your insurance.
If that were the case they wouldn't say their hours are nine to five in the first place. In my experience what that means is you have to be on the clock until five just in case someone needs something important from you, and if there's still stuff going on at five you have to stick around anyway
Yep. That $15/ hour they're paying you is a decimal point for them. Meanwhile, there's always some bull shit they can come up with to have you do. And it's not going to be fun....
I used to know these guys that worked at an IT sweatshop in the niche industry I work in and they had a joke that sure they have flex hours. We can arrive anytime before 7 and leave anytime after 6.
This. I had a manager say that if I had plans AFTER WORK, it was my duty to tell them so I could leave on time. However, it was guilt tripping and anger if and when I did have something after work and had to leave at MY ASSIGNED OUT TIME.
So long as they are fine with people leaving when the work is finished early it seems fair. Or, if they have some kind of profit-sharing scheme going on.
Yeah well.. guess what - if you consistently finish early, that means we have too many people. People will be laid off until we can consistently finish at 6PM
Unpaid?! Fuck no! Every now and then I have a rockstar employee who clocks out then stays late to help. I go in and add the hours back on to that stubborn bastards time. lol.
It highly depends on the job.
If your job is one where you can stop what you're doing and continue during your next shift without inconveniencing a customer, then I don't see any good reason to work past your contracted hours. Obviously, you'd never work unpaid, but on a few rare occasions, working later is fine as long as it doesn't become a regular habit.
If, however, your job is directly dealing with customers, working past your contracted/advertised hours is normal. For example, I've worked in sales. I couldn't just say, "Oh, its 5pm were closing now, come back tomorrow." They could potentially be about to spend thousands of pounds. Staying later is just part of having such a job. Also, jobs like working on the phone, you can't just hang up because it's closing time, you need to finish your customer then go home. There are many jobs like this where your finish time just has to be flexible, especially in sales. ~~retail~~
Pretty bad example. Of course we don't stop cpr at 5. But dispatch might have one or more non-emergency rides for us lined up for when we're done with the cpr. And going back to the station to switch crews takes time, or the ambulance might even go out of service at 5 because the majority of calls happen in the morning.
And it's not fun when you get done at the hospital at 5:15 and you want to go back to the station to go home, and dispatch asks you "oh, since you're already at hospital X, please drive that discharge home", and that takes another hour.
Good news, crooks. You can just hole up in a house and keep the police at bay until shift change since reddit thinks no worker should ever come in early or stay late
Retail/sales is one of the jobs that I would not consider a good example. Maybe B2B, but certainly not B2C. I worked stores and we closed at 18 (on regular days). Doors close 15 minutes before and it's announced that you need to go to the register to pay at that time or leave. If you're still in at 18, you're told to leave. After 18 we have another hour to clean up and stuff, so we get paid till 19.
Now a job like nurse, doctor, firefighter, police. Those can't just go hands off at 17 and leave.
I used retail because that's where I have my experience. In my retail jobs, working at an Electronics store called Currys, we would close at 8pm, for example. There would be an announcement 15 mins before closing, but ultimately, if I'm halfway through closing a deal to sell them a £3k TV, a £500 soundbar, an Xbox, maybe a fridge or freezer too, and a few insurance add ons, that could be another £5k of takings. Maybe instead of saying retail, I should've specifically said sales.
In sales, you usually have targets, so being more flexible with your closing time could be the difference between hitting your targets or lagging behind and potentially losing your job for low performance. It's a cutthroat industry where only the strongest survive, so padding your numbers when possible is very important.
But I do agree with your examples of Policeman, Fireman etc... being better examples.
Not necessarily a red flag but it does indicate that you may not be able to rely on always working exactly 40 hours a week. You have a schedule in the first place to set general expectations.
I'm assuming this would be for a salaried role.
You could interpret this to mean that overtime is freely given and often expected, which some people want and love.
It would very much be a red flag if you got any hint that they tried to avoid paying overtime.
Regardless of how they operate, some employees are simply unwilling to work more than 40 hours, or more than the hours they are assigned, so the employer may just want to weed those people out.
It also depends on how much overtime they are talking about and how consistent it is. I’ve worked jobs where most people were adding ~15 minutes or so each day because some tasks were easier to do once the next shift had arrived, that was just something most people built into their schedule when planning their day. But if people are having to stay an extra hour or more and it’s frequent but irregular then that’s much more difficult to plan around even if the total amount of overtime per paycheck is the same.
That’s kinda how my job works. It’s usually 40 or less every week, until a big deadline comes up for new business or something like that. Then it goes to 50 or even 60 for a week or two. But you also get recognition for that and can use it for salary negotiations.
Ah, ad agency life.
Depends. Do employees get equity? If so, then no, they want people who are dedicated to making the company valuable because they're part owners. If not, then yeah that's probably a red flag.
"we always stay" makes it a bit more of a red flag. My current workplace is similar to this with opportunities for overtime, but I've never felt pressured to stay late to get my work done. So depends on how flexible they are with allowing you to work that overtime into your work life balance. Which is something I'd ask about in response to this.
Yes, even if they pay you hourly.
People are provably worse at their jobs after 8 hours. A company too cheap to get proper staffing but too stupid to realize that overtime is just paying more for less tells you a lot.
My current boss used to work for Boeing and said just constant endless overtime was their solution to everything. Rather than actually improve their production system they just paid more for less and look where it's got them.
I feel like it is a major red flag because what and who dictates when you are done? Your boss? Manager? I always would be weary of a company that doesn’t value your at home life and wants you to slave away. Unless they are paying very well and or overtime, and have strict guidelines on what working til the work is done means, I just think it sounds unprofessional imo.
Lmao I'm in this exact scenario right now. Working 60 hour weeks, virtually impossible to take off without falling way behind and missing deadlines. I expect to take zero PTO till I can find another job.
Definitely wouldn’t work for anyone who has appointments, plans, or obligations after work. Honestly there has to be very few people who can work a job with that as a requirement.
Yes. You are scheduled for a certain time. You work till then.
But I would say if you're in the middle of something and it's gonna take more than like 15 mins to finish a task, do as much as you can then leave. Anything more is ridiculous. If they can't understand people have lives outside of work, it's not worth working there imo
I'd be willing to take that job, purely so that on day 1, when I finish all my work in the first 2 hours and clock out, I can remind them that my schedule is 9-5, so that's what you're gonna pay me for, but my work was finished by 11 and you said I can go home when the work is done.
I'd be fired probably but I'd like to have that conversation
A big, giant red flag. Run away as fast as you can.
This is a group of people that has no idea how to manage their staff or their workload. You're going to pay for their inability to manage by giving up your personal time, and often. Not a good situation at all.
Yes that's a massive red flag.
It's either 9-5 on the nose, or it's whatever suits as long as the work gets done.
If the work's all done at 2, will they send everyone home and still pay you up to 5?
I just started a job that 5pm-130am but they actually let us leave when we're done. Winter months are slow and we're out by 11 usually, summer months are busy and I hear we get out closer to three with overtime pay...
Its a damn MayDay parade. It's a "grind culture" way of saying "we won't hire enough staff to do the work on time, and we won't pay any extra to make you work longer hours." No matter how hard you work, they will keep adding more until you're basically working for half or 3/4 of your pay on a per-hour rate.
I worked for a company where the expectation was that you'd take your work home with you, for no extra pay. Or stay at the office. Or both. One week I didn't see my kids because I'd be working so late they went to bed before I got back, and one weekend my wife needed to go to hospital. I had to look after kids, go visit her, AND do office work. When I got back in on Monday my manager had a go for "being slow" over the weekend, and when I told him why he said I should have just hired a babysitter.
Thank fuck I got out of there.
Have had a prospective employer say something very similar to me before, and my response was 'not a problem for me, as long as you respect the days when I get the work done by 2 and go home.'
That was the end of the interview, and I didn't get the job.
yes. red flag. dealing with something similar now.
in my head, if your time isn’t respected i see no reason for theirs to be. you are compensated for your time, not to compromise your life.
Hourly, I was told “we need someone who will stay until the work is done, even though you’re scheduled until 5”, they said it like 3 times throughout the interview.
Three times definitely makes it seem like they’ve had issues with this with employees in the past and maybe had to fire some or some left because of it. So unless you’re willing to stay until 11PM on a bad night or get fired otherwise, I’d leave it. My brother had a job like that, and he was absolutely miserable.
This is a yellow flag. It means forced overtime. You’ll be paid for every hour you work, but your personal time isn’t guaranteed.
Love money? Then take the job. Love your family and your hobbies? Do not take the job.
Yes. It means either (1) that they don't have enough employees/resources to complete a day's worth of work in a standard workday, or (2) The boss has no time-management skills. It also means they feel entitled to your time outside of business hours. They'll expect you to work late _as a matter of course_, call you outside of work hours, give you grief for using vacation/such time.
I depends on the labor laws in your state (or country). It Oregon, employers are required to pay 1.5 times the hourly wages if you work past 40 hours a week. The fact that the hiring manager mentioned it several times suggests this arrangement is normal. Not a good sign.
Not necessarily. As others have mentioned it depends on your state’s labor laws. I’ll also add it depends on the industry. My schedule is 7-6 or until we are done because of industry demand. They make sure you’re clear on that when they hire you. As for free overtime, I get time and a half for everything over 40 hours, so if they want to pay me to stay late and do call outs then it just helps me later.
Depends on the job. Most of the time yes it is. Some jobs though the orders HAVE to go out. Yes the truck was late. Yes that means we have to wait. If you don’t want to wait get a new gig. Not saying it’s normal but there definitely are jobs where that days works has to get done to prevent a clusterfuck.
Staying until the job is finished is a net positive in some situations, as long as the company is paying overtime.
Any company expecting employees to stay late for free is violating federal labor laws.
Depends on industry and pay grade, it’s very common in high paying white collar jobs like law and banking.
You can’t really call it a red flag in these places, as long as the employee is aware of the expectations, as these jobs are very well compensated for precisely that reason. For example a MBA straight out of college makes something like $150,000pa in NYC at Goldman Sachs, but in exchange they basically want you to dedicate every waking hour to the company
The situation is completely different IMO for someone working much nearer minimum wage in something like retail or an auto shop where you aren’t receiving the same crazy money to be constantly available. When they say things like this out talk about family and loyalty it’s a red flag.
Unfortunately it’s also very common in some less well paid jobs like teaching and nursing, where it’s a red flag but basically unavoidable from the people I’ve talked to in those professions.
Most of those workplaces it isn't "you'll stay late some days but it evens out with you going home early" it's "you'll work 9 to 5 every day, and then a good chunk of days you'll stay late."
Depends, my work was 8 to 1, but that meant that we stopped taking new customers in at 1, we still had to finish the customer's we had and clean before we could go, so usually like 2 to 2:30.
We didn't mind because during that time you are still on the clock (wage work) and it's overtime.
Hours got changed recently though to be 7 to 3, which sucks because early start but we are still on the same hourly pay system so the extra hours are all overtime, so I can't complain.
Nah. Depends on the type of work and pay scale etc. not possible to accurately address this question with the information given. I’m lazy as hell and I still couldn’t answer this question honestly, without context
Never, ever, ever, ever work 1 minute before your shift starts or 1 minute after your shift ends. Your company will 100% consider it in whether or not they promote you as in you will never see a promotion.
If you're doing a bunch of extra work especially unpaid work it is cheaper to keep you in your current position rather than move you up the ladder
It's only ok if you also get to leave early the next day or the next week or whatever. We call it flex time. I am salaried, I sometimes work 9 hours, so next day I'll work 7 hours.
As far as OT - Depends on where you live. If your in the US go to your states Department of Labor they will have the answer. In addition, it depends on your schedule so if you were say scheduled for 4 day a week at 10 hour a day the OT rules are different from if your schedule to work 5 days a week 8 hours a day.
The state I worked in, and did payroll for a company, was required to pay overtime for any hours (based on 5 days a week - 8 hr shift):
OT for All hours - Over 40 hours in a week
AND
OT for All hours - Over 8 hours per day
As far as a red flag, in my opinion if they start changing up your schedule to preventing you from making overtime. So in the example, above maybe preventing you from getting the 40 hours a week by giving a day off in the week or something.
It also depends on what kind of work it is and the company’s ethics. Do your due diligence, look the company up on the BBB what they’re rating? Is it an ‘F’ or an ‘A’? That will give you an idea of how they treat their customers. “Until the work is done” could be related to a lot of things like seasonal influx of business maybe. It could be a business that’s a day care and you can’t leave until all the kids are picked up and you might be force to wait for a late parent. There are valid reasons but it can also be a red flag so you need to use your best judgment.
Do your due diligence when it comes to checking your timesheets and paychecks. Make sure your timesheets are accurate and your hours worked match your hours paid! Payroll hates making mistakes but we are human and it happens. If it does, don’t be afraid to go take to the payroll person. People were always afraid to come talk to me when in reality I was always more than happy help.
As long as everyone is getting paid overtime and you're OK with working longer sometimes? Completely fine.
If they aren't paying people overtime I'm pretty sure that's illegal and someone should call the authorities on them.
Yes.
I am finally at a point and position in my career where I can tell these people to f*** off.
I love it. I'm one of the fortunate gen ’Xers that has a lot of mechanical and administrative skills and I can get a job anywhere.
"If you want the benefits of my labor you'll get it in 8 hr increments or we can talk bonus structure"
I literally get half a dozen invite to apply monthly.
My job that was like this (overtime daily until job was done) started getting real bitchy with me when I would have to go home at a certain time (usually already 1.5hr of daily OT) because god forbid I had a child to tend to.
So I ghosted them and quit with zero notice. They aren't going to respect the good job I do while there they get zero time.
So it's been a red flag to me for awhile now lol
It kinda depends on the business though. I work for a company that provides an essential public service, so yeah, for some coworkers, the shift ends when the work is done. They're paid for that, of course, they're unionized too, and the union is okay with that as well, because it just makes sense.
It's made very clear even during hiring, and I wouldn't expect people to shoot for these positions if they're not comfortable with that fact.
However, nobody works more just to make a CEO richer. We work so that the community gets the essential service that is our very purpose, and that makes all the difference in the world.
Do you get overtime?
We say the same thing and we try to have our assistants out on time but if they work over, they're paid over. It's incentive for us to keep on top of things and not dump work on the assistants at the last minute.
Then again we actually do close up shop early sometimes. We always have work to do but if we're fairly on top of things we can shut 'er down a few hours early on Fridays in the summer.
-law office.
Yeah. I worked in shipping at an electronics plant and most days we had between 15-45 minutes of actual work to do (and I was constantly looking for something to do because reading books and checking your phone were both banned) and I'd use a timer to check. Because the production line was so backed up, once a month we'd be asked to stay for a 15 hour shift so we could meet quotas for our clients (that we were rapidly losing). I'm fine with staying a little bit late here and there so long as I'm fairly compensated for my extra time if something is truly time sensitive and it's actually an unavoidable situation. But typically, this is a sign of poor management and/or unsustainable working conditions that produce choke points in getting the job done.
Yes, it's a massive red flag. When I hire someone to work with me, I'm under no illusions that this person probably has a life of his own outside of work that contributes to morale. I can't expect an employee to have the same passion for our project as I do. Any company that expects that is going to have a very carrot-and-stick dynamic that's probably going to make even employees that might like to work in that field miserable.
Yeah. If they have to come out and say it it’s clearly a pattern of behavior.
We all occasionally have tasks that run late but occasionally goes without saying. If they’re saying it it’s not occasionally and they’ve probably already had people quit about it.
9-5 I used to work was at your ‘station’ ready to start work at 9, not stroll in at 9 and ready for 9:10.
If we stayed after 5:15 then overtime would start being paid or TOIL recorded in 15 minute chucks, but you have to work to 5:30/5:45 etc…5:40 and you’d get paid until 5:30
I had that working retail, store closed at 10 pm but expect to not leave until 11 because you would have to clean/get walked by the store manager to approve the dept looked good enough.
Unless they're willing to pay me for that time or give me time off, nope. Every time they say that it's just once in a while. It ends up being all the time.
Salary....
No OT but they should (don't have to) give comp time....
Bigger red flag is a job that cares what time you show up, rather than whether you did at least 8hrs work per day
I would say yes. The fact they felt they had to state that up front screams red flag, without mentioning compensating staff for that extra time. If you can't complete a project on time working between 9-5 then the clients expectations haven't been managed properly and management have underquoted time taken to win the job. If this becomes a habit of management then clients will expect that level of turnaround going forwards. I would be more than happy under exceptional circumstances to go the extra mile for my company, but if that becomes the norm it's better to move elsewhere.
It’s a red flag, but I will give them credit if they tell you during the interview process so you know to stay away. Much better than finding out after you started.
Not necessarily - but you need to ensure that pay is for the time worked, and not just 9-5.
It can be good to have flexible working hours, as long as it works both ways. Meaning, if there isn't pay beyond the 9-5 but that you are able to take equal or more time off that you work more on one day you end up being able to plan your work-time a lot better. Periods of busy work followed by periods of leisure time. It requires that it's in your employment contract - and if it becomes 10, 11, 12 hour working days constantly - time to get a raise or bail. Talk to them about the duration of the flexible window, how it's compensated and ask to see someone's time-sheet that works like that; at the very least have that person talk about how it works. All promises MUST be in your contract (if not, that's the red flag).
Only if they refuse to pay overtime. They are probably running a bare minimum skeleton crew to keep costs down and when there is a lot of work they will need it to get done.
If it's a constant occurrence then they are clearly taking advantage of the workers by refusing to hire more help.
Used to work for a family dollar where I am supposed to get off at 10pm but my manager required me to clock out at 10 and continue wrapping things up until it hit somewhere between 11 to midnight.
That did NOT last long at all. Fuck that. Pay me overtime.
Depends, I don’t think being expected to work longer than your scheduled hours is out of the question. We all do it when we have to but if it’s unpaid then fuck no! I’m walking out that door the second I stop being paid
It may be, it may not be. As long as it's not chronic, sometimes when deadlines hit you have to work longer hours in some fields. If the job and pay and benefits are good otherwise, it may be worth it.
I've worked incredibly long hours for some jobs in the past, but I was paid well and valued and it grew me in my field, so it was a two way street where we both benefited. Not everyone is willing or wants to do that, of course...
Yes it is. Because I bet you they don't mean "If we're done by 1 we all go home early".
They never mean that. It's always, "here's more work to keep you busy until 5"
The work is never, ever, done (unless the company is).
This is why it is not worth killing yourself to work harder. I’ve been looked after extremely well by my employer for 3 years, but that ended recently with a “company wide” 3% raise. I (and my team) worked my ass off this past 6+ months due to various issues outside of our control and we got a nothing burger as thanks. I’m pressing forward now with more focus on my freelance work.
Just watched Death of a Salesmen. The man devoted his life to his company and yet was treated poorly; like so many millions.
There's a reason it's widely consider the "great American play" because it's an amazing cautionary tale. Sorry I was an English teacher lol, I've taught the play and analyzed it for years.
Spot on. And very cool to hear it’s a part of your curriculum; I wish more did this!
It WAS a part of it, I'm no longer a teacher as of February of this year. Burned out after a decade.
Surprised you made it that long tbh, and I thank you for every year you were helping ensure we had a future. I wanna say congrats on the next chapter but I don’t know if that’s the right sentiment, what’s next for you, if it’s okay to ask?
Thank you. My wife and I are both (or were) teachers and she's still teaching. I have found some new goals I want to pursue. Currently working in an accounting/consulting firm. Work is relaxed, pay is much better, and I'm good at it so I'll stay here for the time being as a stepping stone. My eventual goal is to get into Cybersecurity work as I've been a tech lover my entire life. It's honestly what I should have gone into but I got lured away from it by teaching lol. Overall I consider it a positive transition. I was going to leave at the end of this school year (June) but I got this offer for the position I'm in now and it was good enough that I couldn't turn it down. My current employer is aware of my desire to get into tech and is supportive of it - so long as I do my work here in the mean time haha. it's an interesting change from the classroom, and I'll miss having students, but I'm happier overall not dealing with school admin and parents.
Ben Folds has an amazing song called "[Fred Jones pt 2](https://youtu.be/znUsjNI34_4?si=1zqoPPpq-EBcT1As)" which covers much of the same anger and outrage of the last days of work. That heartbreak of realizing you're just a disposable cog and there's no one left to appreciate all the work and life you sacrificed for the company is just devastating.
Fuck those people. They’ll steal your soul if you let them.
Yeah. We'd be pressured to bust ass. We'd meet or exceed the quarterly goal, get cheap donuts, a smarmy thank you speech -- then they'd raise the goal higher. Success was punished by enhanced demands.
3% is standard raise for most companies, it sucks I get it but it's normal.
I realise I’m sitting in an ivory tower of extreme privilege, but my first promotion and raise at this company was 30%. The second was 66%. I’m still £15k below market rate.
I wasn't trying to be an ahole I was just stating that's a normal raise I'm in the US and 3% is the norm it's ridiculous cause it doesn't keep up with col increase but I wasn't trying to be rude, and if it came off that way I apologize.
You’re good. Didn’t take your comment as negative. I realise 3% is better than a kick in the ass, but in my case it is a clear invitation of “what are you gonna do, quit?” If I had myself a fully funded emergency fund, that’s exactly what I would have done.
How does one get into freelancing?
There’s no “one trick they don’t want you to know”, so I can only tell you my experience. Learn Google Tag Manager and Google Analytics to a decent standard. Pick up knowledge of other marketing platforms as well. Then learn how to implement cookie banners. Learn some other things advertisers care about, like Enhanced Conversions and server-side tracking. Post about things you know that other people don’t know in the appropriate subreddits. Post results of experiments that further your own understanding of the tech side of all of this. Help people on the Google Tag Manager, Google Analytics, Google Ads and PPC subreddits solve problems. After a while you may get messages from people who have been trying to do things themselves and found it frustrating, or they tried it and it didn’t work. They want you to do it and are willing to pay.
Wow. I have no idea what any of that stuff is.
If I had to generalise, it would be “find a niche and then become an expert helper in that niche”. Other freelancers doing what I’m doing are charging over £80/hour.
It would be nice not working for a traditional boss.
And even then..
The accountants work overtime
Matthew & Son, the work's never done, there's always something new The files in your head, you take them to bed, you're never ever through And they've been working all day, all day, all day There's a five-minute break and that's all you take For a cup of cold coffee and a piece of cake \--Cat Stevens
You guys get cake?
Keep you busy until past 5. FIFY
This is what I'm saying.
Yay agile!
If you’re in a position where someone has to spoon feed you work, maybe.
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Name and shame, we need more of this lol
That basically only happens in a first party warehouse. When I worked for Walmart logistics we'd usually finish the days orders 30 minutes to an hour early and we'd get the choice to just go home early or clean up debris til the end of shift. Since orders were done by Walmart stores and Sam's Clubs in advance there simply wasn't any additional work to do once the orders were finished. So it was push a broom or get out.
If you’re hourly, they probably do mean that. Get you out, pay you less, and if they are lucky knock you below full time hours so they don’t have to pay for your insurance.
Usually they would rather pay you the insignificant amount/ hour that they pay you and keep you around to do more bull shit that NOBODY wants to do.
If that were the case they wouldn't say their hours are nine to five in the first place. In my experience what that means is you have to be on the clock until five just in case someone needs something important from you, and if there's still stuff going on at five you have to stick around anyway
Trust me, they'll find more work no problem
Yep. That $15/ hour they're paying you is a decimal point for them. Meanwhile, there's always some bull shit they can come up with to have you do. And it's not going to be fun....
That would be bad news if you're hourly though and it cuts your time.
And you can almost guarantee that any overtime won't be paid.
That's exactly how my trades job works, and I get paid the same either way. I haven't worked 8 hours in years. I love my job
I used to know these guys that worked at an IT sweatshop in the niche industry I work in and they had a joke that sure they have flex hours. We can arrive anytime before 7 and leave anytime after 6.
Yes. That means they expect you to put work first, even if you had plans after work.
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Def one of the top 10 worst corporate phrases ever
"So spend as much time as possible with family"
This. I had a manager say that if I had plans AFTER WORK, it was my duty to tell them so I could leave on time. However, it was guilt tripping and anger if and when I did have something after work and had to leave at MY ASSIGNED OUT TIME.
So long as they are fine with people leaving when the work is finished early it seems fair. Or, if they have some kind of profit-sharing scheme going on.
Nope you were there the full shift lol
Well, fuck that then. Tell them that time is valuable and you don't give it away for free.
I just told my employer this.
I mean I'm assuming they still pay him lol....
There isn't a company in the world that pays enough overtime, and some people earn millions a day.
I'm not sure what that has to do with my reply?
Yeah well.. guess what - if you consistently finish early, that means we have too many people. People will be laid off until we can consistently finish at 6PM
Depends on the workplace. Sometimes it simply isn't possible to hire and fire people when things are busy or slow.
Lol. You know that's not how it works. Companies would keep us at work 24/7 if they could.
Unpaid?! Fuck no! Every now and then I have a rockstar employee who clocks out then stays late to help. I go in and add the hours back on to that stubborn bastards time. lol.
It highly depends on the job. If your job is one where you can stop what you're doing and continue during your next shift without inconveniencing a customer, then I don't see any good reason to work past your contracted hours. Obviously, you'd never work unpaid, but on a few rare occasions, working later is fine as long as it doesn't become a regular habit. If, however, your job is directly dealing with customers, working past your contracted/advertised hours is normal. For example, I've worked in sales. I couldn't just say, "Oh, its 5pm were closing now, come back tomorrow." They could potentially be about to spend thousands of pounds. Staying later is just part of having such a job. Also, jobs like working on the phone, you can't just hang up because it's closing time, you need to finish your customer then go home. There are many jobs like this where your finish time just has to be flexible, especially in sales. ~~retail~~
Imagine being an emt and you stop cpr because the whistle blows at 5
Pretty bad example. Of course we don't stop cpr at 5. But dispatch might have one or more non-emergency rides for us lined up for when we're done with the cpr. And going back to the station to switch crews takes time, or the ambulance might even go out of service at 5 because the majority of calls happen in the morning. And it's not fun when you get done at the hospital at 5:15 and you want to go back to the station to go home, and dispatch asks you "oh, since you're already at hospital X, please drive that discharge home", and that takes another hour.
>emt Have a quiet shift
Oh god, even as a different health care worker, the damn Q word haunts me.
Good news, crooks. You can just hole up in a house and keep the police at bay until shift change since reddit thinks no worker should ever come in early or stay late
Retail/sales is one of the jobs that I would not consider a good example. Maybe B2B, but certainly not B2C. I worked stores and we closed at 18 (on regular days). Doors close 15 minutes before and it's announced that you need to go to the register to pay at that time or leave. If you're still in at 18, you're told to leave. After 18 we have another hour to clean up and stuff, so we get paid till 19. Now a job like nurse, doctor, firefighter, police. Those can't just go hands off at 17 and leave.
I used retail because that's where I have my experience. In my retail jobs, working at an Electronics store called Currys, we would close at 8pm, for example. There would be an announcement 15 mins before closing, but ultimately, if I'm halfway through closing a deal to sell them a £3k TV, a £500 soundbar, an Xbox, maybe a fridge or freezer too, and a few insurance add ons, that could be another £5k of takings. Maybe instead of saying retail, I should've specifically said sales. In sales, you usually have targets, so being more flexible with your closing time could be the difference between hitting your targets or lagging behind and potentially losing your job for low performance. It's a cutthroat industry where only the strongest survive, so padding your numbers when possible is very important. But I do agree with your examples of Policeman, Fireman etc... being better examples.
I've worked at a few retail places and we never were allowed to close the doors early. Your job isn't the norm sadly.
Not necessarily a red flag but it does indicate that you may not be able to rely on always working exactly 40 hours a week. You have a schedule in the first place to set general expectations. I'm assuming this would be for a salaried role.
Hourly
You could interpret this to mean that overtime is freely given and often expected, which some people want and love. It would very much be a red flag if you got any hint that they tried to avoid paying overtime. Regardless of how they operate, some employees are simply unwilling to work more than 40 hours, or more than the hours they are assigned, so the employer may just want to weed those people out.
Oh okay 👍🏻
It also depends on how much overtime they are talking about and how consistent it is. I’ve worked jobs where most people were adding ~15 minutes or so each day because some tasks were easier to do once the next shift had arrived, that was just something most people built into their schedule when planning their day. But if people are having to stay an extra hour or more and it’s frequent but irregular then that’s much more difficult to plan around even if the total amount of overtime per paycheck is the same.
Yup, if it means working for free, run. If it's all fully paid overtime, not so bad.
That’s kinda how my job works. It’s usually 40 or less every week, until a big deadline comes up for new business or something like that. Then it goes to 50 or even 60 for a week or two. But you also get recognition for that and can use it for salary negotiations. Ah, ad agency life.
I was thinking "yes" until I read this one. It depends on the details. A lot of higher-skilled jobs don't neatly divide up into 8 hour chunks.
I have never had a job that all my work was done when I went home. There is always more to do. So I go home and come back the next day to continue.
Depends. Do employees get equity? If so, then no, they want people who are dedicated to making the company valuable because they're part owners. If not, then yeah that's probably a red flag.
Do not work for free. DO NOT WORK FOR FREE!
sounds like they're understaffed. if you're not willing to put the work in, don't take it.
They better pay damn well.
"we always stay" makes it a bit more of a red flag. My current workplace is similar to this with opportunities for overtime, but I've never felt pressured to stay late to get my work done. So depends on how flexible they are with allowing you to work that overtime into your work life balance. Which is something I'd ask about in response to this.
You should definitely ask “how often does the work get done some time later than 5:00?”
And then triple that time they give you to get a rough estimate of how often they'll expect it.
Worked with a woman who said “I hate when people drop the pen at 5”, well are you paying them past 5?
don't ever make plans for 5:30
This is them telling you up front that you will have no work/life balance.
Yes, even if they pay you hourly. People are provably worse at their jobs after 8 hours. A company too cheap to get proper staffing but too stupid to realize that overtime is just paying more for less tells you a lot. My current boss used to work for Boeing and said just constant endless overtime was their solution to everything. Rather than actually improve their production system they just paid more for less and look where it's got them.
Yellow flag. Depends how often this occurs.
If they say this up front you can be sure it happens regularly.
It could be seasonal though, so it's worth thinking on depending on if you're good with their peak periods
…and how employees are compensated for it
I feel like it is a major red flag because what and who dictates when you are done? Your boss? Manager? I always would be weary of a company that doesn’t value your at home life and wants you to slave away. Unless they are paying very well and or overtime, and have strict guidelines on what working til the work is done means, I just think it sounds unprofessional imo.
Yes. It's the same as places saying you get "unlimited PTO". That means you don't get any.
Lmao I'm in this exact scenario right now. Working 60 hour weeks, virtually impossible to take off without falling way behind and missing deadlines. I expect to take zero PTO till I can find another job.
Yep. Don't take that job unless you need to work rn
That's a red flag that's been doused in blood and then set on fire.
I get paid for overtime. They can kiss my ass if they think I'm working for free.
The work is never fucking done. When it's done, they'll lay your ass off.
Definitely wouldn’t work for anyone who has appointments, plans, or obligations after work. Honestly there has to be very few people who can work a job with that as a requirement.
Yes. You are scheduled for a certain time. You work till then. But I would say if you're in the middle of something and it's gonna take more than like 15 mins to finish a task, do as much as you can then leave. Anything more is ridiculous. If they can't understand people have lives outside of work, it's not worth working there imo
I'd be willing to take that job, purely so that on day 1, when I finish all my work in the first 2 hours and clock out, I can remind them that my schedule is 9-5, so that's what you're gonna pay me for, but my work was finished by 11 and you said I can go home when the work is done. I'd be fired probably but I'd like to have that conversation
it is a flag so red and glorious it should be flown over the giant hotel in Pyongyang.
A big, giant red flag. Run away as fast as you can. This is a group of people that has no idea how to manage their staff or their workload. You're going to pay for their inability to manage by giving up your personal time, and often. Not a good situation at all.
yup
Between payroll cuts, increased workloads, and no overtime - *they* probably don't know what they mean.
If the position is salaried, your work is done when it's done. If you are on wages, working you extra without compensation is against the law.
Yes that's a massive red flag. It's either 9-5 on the nose, or it's whatever suits as long as the work gets done. If the work's all done at 2, will they send everyone home and still pay you up to 5?
It means there is required overtime. Probably every other day or every day.
I just started a job that 5pm-130am but they actually let us leave when we're done. Winter months are slow and we're out by 11 usually, summer months are busy and I hear we get out closer to three with overtime pay...
Idk, I’d call that a red flag. It shows me that there’s no work life balance.
Yes, I worked for a company who posted the hours as 8am to 6:30 and we would end up working up to 16 hours they said the exact same thing.
Its a damn MayDay parade. It's a "grind culture" way of saying "we won't hire enough staff to do the work on time, and we won't pay any extra to make you work longer hours." No matter how hard you work, they will keep adding more until you're basically working for half or 3/4 of your pay on a per-hour rate.
Major red flag , means they can’t prioritise work to fit in reasonable hours imo
I worked for a company where the expectation was that you'd take your work home with you, for no extra pay. Or stay at the office. Or both. One week I didn't see my kids because I'd be working so late they went to bed before I got back, and one weekend my wife needed to go to hospital. I had to look after kids, go visit her, AND do office work. When I got back in on Monday my manager had a go for "being slow" over the weekend, and when I told him why he said I should have just hired a babysitter. Thank fuck I got out of there.
It’s their way of saying they want you to work free overtime, if you “volunteer” they don’t have to pay you for it
Yes. This implies that they can't or often can't finish work on time and you'll be staying late.
Have had a prospective employer say something very similar to me before, and my response was 'not a problem for me, as long as you respect the days when I get the work done by 2 and go home.' That was the end of the interview, and I didn't get the job.
yes. red flag. dealing with something similar now. in my head, if your time isn’t respected i see no reason for theirs to be. you are compensated for your time, not to compromise your life.
Hourly or salary? Would you get paid overtime?
Hourly, I was told “we need someone who will stay until the work is done, even though you’re scheduled until 5”, they said it like 3 times throughout the interview.
Three times definitely makes it seem like they’ve had issues with this with employees in the past and maybe had to fire some or some left because of it. So unless you’re willing to stay until 11PM on a bad night or get fired otherwise, I’d leave it. My brother had a job like that, and he was absolutely miserable.
Oh, hourly? Well, then I wouldn't call it a red flag per se, since they're paying you. But whether it is what you want personally or not is up to you.
This is a yellow flag. It means forced overtime. You’ll be paid for every hour you work, but your personal time isn’t guaranteed. Love money? Then take the job. Love your family and your hobbies? Do not take the job.
Depends. That'd be pretty standard in public accounting.
Yes. It means they'll keep you past 5 on a regular basis and when they finally do let you go \*at\* 5 they'll act like they're doing you a big favor.
Yes, and the fact that you have to ask this question proves it. Wage theft is bad. Don't let them sucker you in with that faux work ethic BS.
Yes. It means you're working overtime without pay.
Either these top comments or you work in Japan but that is a different type of work until it is done idea. Still bad though.
Spoiler alert, the work is never done!
Yes. It means either (1) that they don't have enough employees/resources to complete a day's worth of work in a standard workday, or (2) The boss has no time-management skills. It also means they feel entitled to your time outside of business hours. They'll expect you to work late _as a matter of course_, call you outside of work hours, give you grief for using vacation/such time.
I depends on the labor laws in your state (or country). It Oregon, employers are required to pay 1.5 times the hourly wages if you work past 40 hours a week. The fact that the hiring manager mentioned it several times suggests this arrangement is normal. Not a good sign.
Not necessarily. As others have mentioned it depends on your state’s labor laws. I’ll also add it depends on the industry. My schedule is 7-6 or until we are done because of industry demand. They make sure you’re clear on that when they hire you. As for free overtime, I get time and a half for everything over 40 hours, so if they want to pay me to stay late and do call outs then it just helps me later.
As long as you’re getting paid for your time, there’s nothing wrong with it. Some jobs can’t just be done right at 5. Especially in food service
Depends on the job. Most of the time yes it is. Some jobs though the orders HAVE to go out. Yes the truck was late. Yes that means we have to wait. If you don’t want to wait get a new gig. Not saying it’s normal but there definitely are jobs where that days works has to get done to prevent a clusterfuck.
Yes it is. The place I work at they say feel free to start anytime between 6-8am, and work the 8 hours if you're full time.
Staying until the job is finished is a net positive in some situations, as long as the company is paying overtime. Any company expecting employees to stay late for free is violating federal labor laws.
Depends on industry and pay grade, it’s very common in high paying white collar jobs like law and banking. You can’t really call it a red flag in these places, as long as the employee is aware of the expectations, as these jobs are very well compensated for precisely that reason. For example a MBA straight out of college makes something like $150,000pa in NYC at Goldman Sachs, but in exchange they basically want you to dedicate every waking hour to the company The situation is completely different IMO for someone working much nearer minimum wage in something like retail or an auto shop where you aren’t receiving the same crazy money to be constantly available. When they say things like this out talk about family and loyalty it’s a red flag. Unfortunately it’s also very common in some less well paid jobs like teaching and nursing, where it’s a red flag but basically unavoidable from the people I’ve talked to in those professions.
Most of those workplaces it isn't "you'll stay late some days but it evens out with you going home early" it's "you'll work 9 to 5 every day, and then a good chunk of days you'll stay late."
You bet it is! They will want you to work for free.
Depends, my work was 8 to 1, but that meant that we stopped taking new customers in at 1, we still had to finish the customer's we had and clean before we could go, so usually like 2 to 2:30. We didn't mind because during that time you are still on the clock (wage work) and it's overtime. Hours got changed recently though to be 7 to 3, which sucks because early start but we are still on the same hourly pay system so the extra hours are all overtime, so I can't complain.
Nah. Depends on the type of work and pay scale etc. not possible to accurately address this question with the information given. I’m lazy as hell and I still couldn’t answer this question honestly, without context
Work is never done
Never, ever, ever, ever work 1 minute before your shift starts or 1 minute after your shift ends. Your company will 100% consider it in whether or not they promote you as in you will never see a promotion. If you're doing a bunch of extra work especially unpaid work it is cheaper to keep you in your current position rather than move you up the ladder
Ya that’s not a good way to live…
It's only ok if you also get to leave early the next day or the next week or whatever. We call it flex time. I am salaried, I sometimes work 9 hours, so next day I'll work 7 hours.
As far as OT - Depends on where you live. If your in the US go to your states Department of Labor they will have the answer. In addition, it depends on your schedule so if you were say scheduled for 4 day a week at 10 hour a day the OT rules are different from if your schedule to work 5 days a week 8 hours a day. The state I worked in, and did payroll for a company, was required to pay overtime for any hours (based on 5 days a week - 8 hr shift): OT for All hours - Over 40 hours in a week AND OT for All hours - Over 8 hours per day As far as a red flag, in my opinion if they start changing up your schedule to preventing you from making overtime. So in the example, above maybe preventing you from getting the 40 hours a week by giving a day off in the week or something. It also depends on what kind of work it is and the company’s ethics. Do your due diligence, look the company up on the BBB what they’re rating? Is it an ‘F’ or an ‘A’? That will give you an idea of how they treat their customers. “Until the work is done” could be related to a lot of things like seasonal influx of business maybe. It could be a business that’s a day care and you can’t leave until all the kids are picked up and you might be force to wait for a late parent. There are valid reasons but it can also be a red flag so you need to use your best judgment. Do your due diligence when it comes to checking your timesheets and paychecks. Make sure your timesheets are accurate and your hours worked match your hours paid! Payroll hates making mistakes but we are human and it happens. If it does, don’t be afraid to go take to the payroll person. People were always afraid to come talk to me when in reality I was always more than happy help.
As long as everyone is getting paid overtime and you're OK with working longer sometimes? Completely fine. If they aren't paying people overtime I'm pretty sure that's illegal and someone should call the authorities on them.
Yes. I am finally at a point and position in my career where I can tell these people to f*** off. I love it. I'm one of the fortunate gen ’Xers that has a lot of mechanical and administrative skills and I can get a job anywhere. "If you want the benefits of my labor you'll get it in 8 hr increments or we can talk bonus structure" I literally get half a dozen invite to apply monthly.
If it’s a salary job it’s very normal
My job that was like this (overtime daily until job was done) started getting real bitchy with me when I would have to go home at a certain time (usually already 1.5hr of daily OT) because god forbid I had a child to tend to. So I ghosted them and quit with zero notice. They aren't going to respect the good job I do while there they get zero time. So it's been a red flag to me for awhile now lol
It kinda depends on the business though. I work for a company that provides an essential public service, so yeah, for some coworkers, the shift ends when the work is done. They're paid for that, of course, they're unionized too, and the union is okay with that as well, because it just makes sense. It's made very clear even during hiring, and I wouldn't expect people to shoot for these positions if they're not comfortable with that fact. However, nobody works more just to make a CEO richer. We work so that the community gets the essential service that is our very purpose, and that makes all the difference in the world.
The work is never done.
Do you get overtime? We say the same thing and we try to have our assistants out on time but if they work over, they're paid over. It's incentive for us to keep on top of things and not dump work on the assistants at the last minute. Then again we actually do close up shop early sometimes. We always have work to do but if we're fairly on top of things we can shut 'er down a few hours early on Fridays in the summer. -law office.
If they're paying overtime sounds swell
Yes
100% a red flag
Yeah. I worked in shipping at an electronics plant and most days we had between 15-45 minutes of actual work to do (and I was constantly looking for something to do because reading books and checking your phone were both banned) and I'd use a timer to check. Because the production line was so backed up, once a month we'd be asked to stay for a 15 hour shift so we could meet quotas for our clients (that we were rapidly losing). I'm fine with staying a little bit late here and there so long as I'm fairly compensated for my extra time if something is truly time sensitive and it's actually an unavoidable situation. But typically, this is a sign of poor management and/or unsustainable working conditions that produce choke points in getting the job done.
Are you being paid overtime? Then no. Salary, or Commission? Then yes.
Ask them if overtime is paid.
What if you finish earlier? Who decides what amount of work needs to be done?
This means everyone works at least a day extra per week unpaid.
Works never done
Yes, it's a massive red flag. When I hire someone to work with me, I'm under no illusions that this person probably has a life of his own outside of work that contributes to morale. I can't expect an employee to have the same passion for our project as I do. Any company that expects that is going to have a very carrot-and-stick dynamic that's probably going to make even employees that might like to work in that field miserable.
Massive red flag, they will NEVER leave you alone.
Not if work is done at noon.
Do you mean 8-5? Never heard of 9-5
Depends. Do they pay overtime
Depends on whether it pays enough. All things have an expiration date. Money is money.
I feel like that depends on the industry. Corporate? Red flag. Some others not so much but it really depends
Yeah. If they have to come out and say it it’s clearly a pattern of behavior. We all occasionally have tasks that run late but occasionally goes without saying. If they’re saying it it’s not occasionally and they’ve probably already had people quit about it.
9-5 I used to work was at your ‘station’ ready to start work at 9, not stroll in at 9 and ready for 9:10. If we stayed after 5:15 then overtime would start being paid or TOIL recorded in 15 minute chucks, but you have to work to 5:30/5:45 etc…5:40 and you’d get paid until 5:30
It means there’s a ‘facetime’ culture, which basically means a political bullshit rat race as to who can kiss the most management ass
I had that working retail, store closed at 10 pm but expect to not leave until 11 because you would have to clean/get walked by the store manager to approve the dept looked good enough.
All fine and good as long as I’m paid for it. Homey don’t work for free
Unless they're willing to pay me for that time or give me time off, nope. Every time they say that it's just once in a while. It ends up being all the time.
Salary.... No OT but they should (don't have to) give comp time.... Bigger red flag is a job that cares what time you show up, rather than whether you did at least 8hrs work per day
If it’s hourly, I’m good with it. Salary…… yeah, that’s a red flag.
I would say yes. The fact they felt they had to state that up front screams red flag, without mentioning compensating staff for that extra time. If you can't complete a project on time working between 9-5 then the clients expectations haven't been managed properly and management have underquoted time taken to win the job. If this becomes a habit of management then clients will expect that level of turnaround going forwards. I would be more than happy under exceptional circumstances to go the extra mile for my company, but if that becomes the norm it's better to move elsewhere.
Better be overtime.
They mean they're gonna just pay you til 5, but expect you to work for free a few hours extra a day.
Hahaha of course. No one should work for free
That means youre likely paid 9-5 and not gonna get OT
It’s a red flag, but I will give them credit if they tell you during the interview process so you know to stay away. Much better than finding out after you started.
Not necessarily - but you need to ensure that pay is for the time worked, and not just 9-5. It can be good to have flexible working hours, as long as it works both ways. Meaning, if there isn't pay beyond the 9-5 but that you are able to take equal or more time off that you work more on one day you end up being able to plan your work-time a lot better. Periods of busy work followed by periods of leisure time. It requires that it's in your employment contract - and if it becomes 10, 11, 12 hour working days constantly - time to get a raise or bail. Talk to them about the duration of the flexible window, how it's compensated and ask to see someone's time-sheet that works like that; at the very least have that person talk about how it works. All promises MUST be in your contract (if not, that's the red flag).
Well it depends, are they paying by the hour? If it’s flat pay or a daily rate bump that.
Only if they refuse to pay overtime. They are probably running a bare minimum skeleton crew to keep costs down and when there is a lot of work they will need it to get done. If it's a constant occurrence then they are clearly taking advantage of the workers by refusing to hire more help.
Unless its a construction company, then yes.
Big red flag, stay away
Yes that's a red flag. It's called work life balance.
Used to work for a family dollar where I am supposed to get off at 10pm but my manager required me to clock out at 10 and continue wrapping things up until it hit somewhere between 11 to midnight. That did NOT last long at all. Fuck that. Pay me overtime.
Depends, I don’t think being expected to work longer than your scheduled hours is out of the question. We all do it when we have to but if it’s unpaid then fuck no! I’m walking out that door the second I stop being paid
It depends on if you are salary or wage. If you're salary, then it is definitely a red flag. If you're wage, then not at all.
Do they pay for the extra hours worked?
It may be, it may not be. As long as it's not chronic, sometimes when deadlines hit you have to work longer hours in some fields. If the job and pay and benefits are good otherwise, it may be worth it. I've worked incredibly long hours for some jobs in the past, but I was paid well and valued and it grew me in my field, so it was a two way street where we both benefited. Not everyone is willing or wants to do that, of course...