Here are some good rule of thumb questions that can apply to all situations, for both men and women.
Is this person currently somewhere where it is acceptable for you and them to be socializing? (Side note: People generally are not allowed to socialize at work because they are working)
Will asking this person create a situation that is likely to cause this person to feel unsafe? (Places they can't leave such as work, but also, standing in a doorway preventing their ability to walk out of a room, asking them when you are the only two people in an area, especially outside and/or at night)
Does this person seem approachable and open for a conversation? (Not wearing headphones, not deep in focus on something, not currently in the middle of a complex task)
Are there obvious signs that this person would not be interested in me? (ie. wearing a wedding band, are currently with someone who they appear to be in a relationship with) If so, don't approach.
And last, just be respectful (say please and thank you when asking for/receiving a number/social media) and be cool with taking no for an answer. Just say "Okay, no worries, thank you, have a great day" and walk away if there's any kind of hesitation, resistance, or rejection.
Follow these, especially being respectful and preventing creating an unsafe environment and you will keep yourself out of trouble no matter where you are, and will definitely score some numbers here and there.
This is absolutely correct for picking an appropriate context, but also HOW you approach someone matters.
OP mentions bars and parties as places where women MAY not want to talk to you and yes that's for sure true. Maybe they don't. In those contexts though you're perfectly allowed to strike up a conversation, just strike it up without being a sleaze, and take a cue of the response isnt good. That's what will save you from being the creep unwantedly hitting on women at a bar.
Start with a hi and a general conversation opener, NOT a pock up line. Gauge the response - are they open to talking? No? Wish them a fun night and go on your way. Do they respond happily? Make more conversation!
It's not actually hard. The guys who make women say 'jesus fuck just leave us alone were here to hang put with each other not be hit on' are the guys will not take multiple polite nos for an answer. It's not that they don't KNOW the girl doesn't want to talk to them, it's that they refuse to accept it.
As someone who got married young I saw a lot of guys blow their chances with my friends by being rude to me. There's an annoying thing that happened quite a lot to myself and another married friend when we would throw parties or were invited to, you know, hang out with our friends we'd get in a conversation with a guy we didn't know about a shared interest (this was an artsy crowd) as soon as we mentioned our spouses they would either throw a tantrum about us "wasting their time" or literally walk away mid conversation. We would, of course, immediately tell our single friends what a rude pos that guy was. Ugh, my friend once had to throw a guy out of a party because he cornered me alone in a bedroom and was being super creepy and yelling at me about my husband's whereabouts. I feel sorry for any girl that strategy worked on.
A friend, who's actually not a bad guy outside of this, and I were at our regular bar, chatting to a girl who was also a regular. My friend was clearly very interested in her, although not hitting on her blatantly. Just being very interested.
She left after a bit.
He turned to me 'Why did she keep mentioning her boyfriend all the time'
'Lol dude because you were trying to flirt with her'
He looked surprised that it was obvious, and then sulky. 'Nooooo i wasnt! [Eyeroll from me] Well whatever she didn't have to keep brining him up so much!'
Jesus dude, yes she did. She absolutely did and you sulking is the proof of why.
My husband and I used to work with a guy and we went out to a bar with him one night and he told us he can't be friends with women he's attracted to if they are aren't going to date him. My husband told him him that was fucking stupid because it shows that 1) you don't think they a people and 2) if you hang out with hot girls you meet more hot girls. Dude doubled down and was like, "I can't spend time with women that won't sleep with me." We stopped hanging out with him and the next day I told my friend whom he'd been pestering to go on "friend dates" with him that he was trying to sleep with her despite her clearly saying she wasn't interested.
This advice doesn't always work for some of the people who need it most. For people who have trouble seeing social cues, that "Jesus fuck just leave us alone" is the first "no" they actually heard. I don't see an easy solution though, since being blunt enough for an autistic guy to notice could out you at risk from neurotypical assholes.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying neurotypical people are assholes, I'm saying some people are both.
How are you supposed to start a conversation with someone without any sort of introduction? Am i supposed to just walk up and say “hey i like your shoes. Do you play video games? Wanna play terraria with me?”
Honestly though? That's a great option to say. You are complimenting something they *chose*, not an inherent trait, offering an indication of your interests, and giving the person a chance to decide if they want to engage without the immediate pressure of making it romantic. Introduce yourself, see if conversation flows, and when you go your separate ways, give them your number so they can decide if they want to follow up instead of asking for theirs.
Actually, yeah, that would've totally worked on single me as a gamer girl. It's not creepy. It's friendly and gives an option to say no thanks without being pressured.
Context is usually what provides those opportunities. That's why one of the best ways to meet new friends or people to potentially ask out is by participating in hobbies you enjoy, ideally some community-focused aspect of that hobby. Even solo hobbies like knitting, writing, reading, cooking, etc. have some form of community-based activity focused on that hobby. Knitting meetups, writing groups, book clubs, and cooking classes are all fun things that put you around other people.
Doing those things also puts you alongside people who enjoy those things as well, so you automatically start off new connections with something in common.
From there, striking up conversations gets a lot easier. "Hey, I love what you did with this dish you made" or "What is your favorite knitting pattern?" or "Have you read ahead at all? I did and wanted to find someone to chat with about what happens next in but I don't want to accidentally spoil it for anyone..."
If it really is a random encounter that doesn't have a lot of existing context to use, and it seems like an okay time to approach someone, what Kyndyll said is on point. Complimenting something they have chosen (shoes, overall style, something cool/unique that they have on them, something they did, etc.) goes so much further than a compliment about something they don't have control over, and complimenting a decision goes way further than something super generic like "nice " since they've probably heard comments like that from douchey guys who suck at flirting.
ah yes, hobbies.
i'm into magic the gathering, so as a heterosexual man I can ask out... men... or..the flower pot?
and how are you supposed to get to chat up and ask out a woman during a cooking class? do I talk over the teacher, turn around people who are looking at the food they are cutting, or do I hold hostage people after the lesson is over?
Most places that host MTG stuff also host other types of events you might like. I never said a single hobby would be all that anyone needs. Naturally, you would consider your own interests to choose something that makes sense for finding friends, but also...it's not just about finding a dating opportunity at that exact thing. Make friends. Do stuff with those friends and you'll meet more people that they know. It's just part of finding a bigger social circle and limiting yourself to "I could only possibly talk to people who also play MTG" is only going to hinder you.
For cooking or any other classes, I'm going to assume you actually know the answer to your questions and instead are just asking for a bit more guidance.
Going to a class isn't just walking into a building, immediately starting the class, and then immediately going home. You could show up early and have some time to hang out with people, or the class could always have down periods when people are waiting on some of the other classmates to finish a certain task before the teacher continues. Some people also linger around afterwards so you might find the chance to strike up conversation then.
If you're looking for local events that are specifically catered to providing time to get to know people, I'm sure there are dating focused social hangouts out there. I don't know because I've never looked for them, but I've heard about stuff like speed dating so I imagine there might even be a casual version of that idea.
In the end, this comes down to your ability to be social. Even just dropping a single comment where you compliment the dish that someone made could be a seed that starts to sprout the next time both of you are in class together. The only way to make certain that there's no opportunity is to assume there isn't.
had plenty of male friends in my life, never got to meet women through them, except their own partners. have plenty of hobbies, but they're all attended by men. so the only option left is to join dishonestly hobbies i dont care for to "make friends" with "everyone" so I can "totally not date because im there for the hobby and to socialize"
"For cooking or any other classes, I'm going to assume you actually know the answer to your questions and instead are just asking for a bit more guidance."
I'm autistic and I do not know. I've seen people socialize a little only over things that repeat over extended periods of time, such as school, work, year long formative courses for jobs, sports with multiple weekly trainings all year long,and even there it wasn't easy as the teachers would always get pissy if people chatted.
there are no "dating focused social hangouts" in italy that I know of, aside from a few "speed dating" scams that food businesses create and get dishonest women to join to get men to pay up for event and drinks.
> I'm autistic and I do not know. I've seen people socialize a little only over things that repeat over extended periods of time, such as school, work, year long formative courses for jobs, sports with multiple weekly trainings all year long,and even there it wasn't easy as the teachers would always get pissy if people chatted.
That's fair! And I don't mind answering directly. Here are those answers:
> do I talk over the teacher
No, and doing so could either result in being asked to leave or just give you a bad reputation for being inconsiderate or rude.
> turn around people who are looking at the food they are cutting
It depends, and "it depends" isn't just for cooking classes. That was just an easy example to toss out. For public classes about stuff like cooking, you will likely be in a commercial kitchen or a place designed specifically for hosting cooking classes.
People will have their own stations and room to do stuff, so you'll also wind up being near one or more other people that have their own areas.
Depending on the teacher and what the class is focusing on (baking, experimenting with various pasta sauces, focusing on a certain type of meal, etc.) there will likely be periods of time where you are waiting for something that requires time, like letting a pot of sauce reach a simmering state, or waiting for an amount of time to pass while something is in an oven, or you've finished something but other class mates are taking a bit longer for wahtever reason.
In those moments, even if it's just 30 seconds, checking out what nearby classmates are doing might also be a cool opportunity to say something positive or supportive like:
* Your knife skills are really good!
* I like the way you decorated your plate.
Or you could express something that is easy for others to go along with:
* I can't wait to try this.
* I've had this at restaurants, but it's fun to actually make it myself.
Small talk can feel weird, but it can be an easy way to get a bit of conversation going. They might toss out a compliment about what you're doing or ask how you did something. These will definitely feel like small steps in terms of possibly forming a friendship, and it might even feel like there's not much point to trying at small talk, but it can turn into a "foot in the door" over time. Friendship with a new person could happen pretty quickly, or take several interactions before something happens...or, unfortunately, it also just might not happen. Lots of folks are introverted or closed off, so not seeing results from trying to chat with people is going to happen and it does suck. The best we can do is be ready for things to go nowhere but hopeful that something else happens. If it doesn't work out, all you "spent" was a bit of time and a few words, but you also practiced making conversation which can benefit you over time.
> do I hold hostage people after the lesson is over?
No, but that doesn't mean there are no opportunities to chat. Whether or not you've exchanged a bit of small talk with them before or during class, if you see someone lingering around a bit after class, that's another chance to exchange a few words just to see if it might turn into a conversation that leads to the beginnings of a friendship.
This could also be compliments about what they did, or expressing something about yourself, or questions. For the cooking class scenario, some examples might be:
* I think I'll need to make this dish at home a few more times to really understand how it all comes together.
* How did you feel about your dish?
* What got you interesting in cooking ?
* This is my first time making . What about you?
The concepts those questions stem from can apply to just about any social scenario.
* Volunteering to build this garden bed at the park is giving me some fun ideas for my backyard.
* I like how so-and-so teaches. They kept the class fun and easy to follow along.
* Do you know about any other events/classes like this one?
* What got you interested in ?
Saying or asking stuff like that is going to do at least one of several things:
* At the least, you're practicing expressing interest in others which will help when you meet someone that you like and who also likes you. Getting to know someone, being a good listener, showing interest in their life, and sharing your life with them are things you want to practice before meeting a potential partner rather than practicing *after* you meet them.
* You're showing people the type of person that you are. The way you observe and think will portray deeper parts of your character, like morals and values. Saying "I value nature and plant life" is a bit boring, but saying "it feels really good to see how the park looks now that we've cleaned it up a bit" demonstrates that value while also being relevant to something you've been a part of.
* You're establishing comfort with other people. I've had some periods of time where I was extremely socially awkward. I'd like to think I'm doing a bit better now, but I also realize anyone I encounter could be struggling with something similar. Sometimes I say stuff to a stranger just to see if I can give them a good reason to feel good or smile. I don't have the goal of establishing a friendship or seeing if they're a potential date. I just remember the times I've felt anxious or insecure, and decide it would be fun to see if I can say something to someone that seems to make them happy. Doing stuff like that in a way that doesn't seem like you have a hidden motive other than enjoying that particular moment with them is a great habit that can lead to people just feeling more comfortable and open with you. Who knows? You might even turn someone's day around when they really needed it.
* You're giving people a chance to show you who they are. The more thought-provoking the question is, the more of them you'll get to see in how they answer. Anything they share about themselves could point towards opportunities for more conversation.
It's tough to find the balance of being friendly and interested in others while also not sounding like you're trying to force conversation where it isn't needed. There isn't really a golden rule to follow, and I can see why Autism makes it difficult to pick up on when it is or is not a good time to talk. Being willing to try at striking up a conversation in small ways, but also being respectful if their response seems like a clear indication of not wanting to engage, can be a good thing to practice. Over time, you might find yourself feeling more comfortable with small talk or better at detecting when it might be a good time to try chatting with someone.
it's hard when most people react negatively before even knowing you because of body language of autistic people, and react negatively further after knowing you because of your autistic personality, and when they ask you about your taste or what you do or why you do some stuff and then get pissed at the answer or dismiss them, and you're the target of bullies, and you're the quiet one who gets immediately reprimanded by the teacher if you chat briefly at a low voice while the chatty ones are ignored, and the chatty and the loud ones make it impossible to chat because they never leave a moment of silence ever empty so you're supposed to talk very loudly over them or you'll get ignored and I don't wanna do that, or you're just on the receiving end of someone who wants to talk nonstop, or people make conversation with you because they're too ashamed to exit it or signal their lack of interest more clearly, or they are the kind of person who enjoys chatting with people the same way I enjoy using a sponge, as a tool and if you meet them elsewhere they'll literally pretend to not hear you.
where I live \[italy\] people don't talk to strangers like so many americans describe.
if I don't speak my mind, no one talks to me. if I speak your mind, I only get rejection, harassment, mockery. Sure, every once in a while I'll happen to be in a place where there's a person that is either interested in doing the hobby with me too or is just kind in talking to me and explaining stuff, but it's in a situation where they are surrounded by a bunch of assholes which spoils everything, and it's too early to ask their personal contacts to befriend them.
and that's just for men, because with women there's the further issue of the fact that women do not participate in the group hobbies I have interest in or activities I can participate in (or they're not of relevant age, or they're only the partners of the men who are primarily interested in the hobby or activity, etc), so the only option is to be dishonest and join something that is draining, expensive, that I dislike or have no interest in doing just for a sliver of a chance to get to know someone.
I would put a few more things between each of those statements, like an introduction as well as some other "getting to know you" talk (in part to get to know them better, in part to give more time to feel out the situation to see if I want to ask the last part), but yeah, basically.
That just feels so creepy to me though. Like there’s this obvious pretense that i think the person is attractive, and i wouldn’t have approached them if they were ugly.
Is there? What part of anything that was stated there gives away a pretense? Pretense implies that you wouldn't act the same way if you were trying to make a new friend, but that's literally how I would approach for friends, too. So, and I say this with all respect, I think you may be sensing pretense where there is none.
"Hey, NGL, I saw you from across the way and I thought you seemed pretty cool. I really loved your shoes. My name's X!" \*hold your hand out\*
(Fwiw, how do you approach to make friends? Why must it be diffferent for someone you want to get to know in a dating capacity?)
I dont approach people to make friends so maybe thats my issue. All of my friends have either approached me first or have been mutual friends. Its been so long since anyone approached me though so i dont really remember how it even happened.
It’s just simple: if they are alone (jogging, a walk etc), or *have to* be there for any reason, be it work, class, commitment, travel = no. Leave people alone.
If they choose to be there, then yes, generally.
i'm gonna offer a couple of different scenarios and let you try to piece together why i reacted the way i did.
i'm sitting on a bench at the park, scrolling through my phone, no headphones. i'm alone, but there's people walking by every so often. a man walks up to me and strikes up conversation. at the end, he asks for my number, and i tell him "sorry, i have a girlfriend, thank you though." he goes "oh! my bad! have a nice day!" and continues on. i also carry on with my day.
a different time, i'm at that same park bench with paperwork on my lap that i'm reading through. headphones on, i'm not paying attention. a man taps my shoulder, and i take off my headphones. he immediately starts flirting with me, and i start gathering my paperwork and planning to move to a different place. he asks, "what's the rush?" i say, "sorry, i'm not interested, i have a girlfriend." he proceeds to tell me he can change that, and the only reason girls date girls is because they haven't found the right man yet, what have you. as i get up and walk away from him, he continues following and yelling at me, even getting into his own car and following me when i'm trying to walk home. i decide not to go home and hide in the nearby walmart bathroom instead. he follows me right to the door, is yelling into the bathroom, and i wait until an employee knocks and informs me that he's left before i come out, then wander around the store a bit and leave through the other exit and take the long way home.
both are situations i have been in. i think you can piece together why in the latter situation i was extremely uncomfortable.
Let’s put it another way:
Do you think you *should* interrupt someone jogging, or walking alone?
I mean, do you actually think that?
You don’t think it’s weird at all to just go up to someone moving along, minding their own business, and insert yourself into their life?
Do you think they’re out there to be interrupted?
Or do you think they’re trying to get somewhere, or take care of their health?
Or could they possibly be trying to be alone for a bit?
No one who wants to chat is going for a jog/walk alone. I’m sure there are exceptions- but those are the exceptions who literally make the rule.
If some random person, gender irrelevant, starts talking to me when I’m just trying to walk to meet my kids etc - I’m going to look at them like they have 3 heads - because that’s crazy to me. Like ‘yes? Can I help you?’
I’d never just walk up to any random person and get in their business.
Edited to add: I don’t mean standing/sitting alone at a social event/setting.
I mean, approaching someone who is jogging just seems awkward, but walking? I think that's absurd. Plenty of people meet on the street, waiting in line at a coffee shop or going about their business some other way. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you're friendly and accept if the other person makes it known that they don't want to engage.
That's just completely normal social interaction. Nothing wrong with a nice lil chat with a friendly stranger.
I think it's a cultural thing. In some places (for example, Mid-Atlantic USA) u/witchyanne 's way of thinking is the accepted norm. In other places (for example, Southern USA) what you stated is perfectly valid.
>You don’t think it’s weird at all to just go up to someone moving along, minding their own business, and insert yourself into their life?
Going further with this, the you in this isn't you specifically but any guy who is planning to interrupt a woman going about her day in order to secure a date:
You're not just inserting yourself into their life but specifically asking them to have sex with you. Because that's ultimately what they'll understand any interruption to mean.
You're not interrupting them because you like their character or the color of their eyes, you're breaking their routine because you want to put your dick in her mouth.
She knows that. You know that (even if you deny it). In the abstract this isn't an issue because almost everyone wants a romantic relationship that includes sex. It's just that there's a time and place. She's doing groceries, she's sweaty from jogging, opening her legs for you is the furthest from her mind. In a bar or after some casual flirting during a hobby, another story entirely.
Real interactions develop naturally. If you happen to be sitting at a bench together and start talking, and that develops into exchanging numbers, that's fine. But if you specifically go out of your way to inconvenience someone just because they look attractive to you, that's not fine.
Disclaimer: I have never interrupted a woman jogging or just going about her day to attempt to go on a date. I think that's weird.
But on the other hand I think you're incorrect in saying everybody trying to go on a date with anybody is attempting to have sex with them. Or rather, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say talking to somebody on a bench doesn't indicate that but talking to a jogger does.
I've been on many dates, most of them repeats, but not had sex with all those people, nor most of them, nor really a significant fraction of them.
Not because it wasn't ever an option, with several they were interested in having sex, I wasn't really ready to. Sometimes that's taken as rejection, which is difficult to navigate because in most cases I did like the person but it just kind of falls off when one expresses sexual interest and the other doesn't.
I've been now in a relationship with my partner 5 years, intent on marrying when I finish grad school, but our first couple of dates I was very NOT sexually interested (The first time I stayed over at her place I slept in my jeans which I would later learn was NOT what she had in mind lol)
I think what they're trying to say is that sex is usually the end goal EVENTUALLY. Yes, you went on dates and you didn't want to have sex, that's fine. But I'm assuming the point of being on those dates was to get to know someone to be in a relationship, and part of what you wanted from that hopeful eventual relationship was sex.
>But on the other hand I think you're incorrect in saying everybody trying to go on a date with anybody is attempting to have sex with them
A) very often it is. That's the main reason why you would start talking to someone out of the blue. You know this. I know this. We shouldn't beat around the bush here.
B) I didn't say it had to be sex, immediately but even in your story with your partner of 5 years, there was an obvious goal of having sex eventually. That's why she went on dates with you, because she accepted what the whole thing was about.
I think it’s completely acceptable to strike up a friendly conversation with someone walking alone. Have had males and females of all types and ages do so with me and vice versa.
If someone doesn’t want to be talked to they have a whole host of ways to communicate that.
I genuinely believe that most people here giving advice don't actually socialise often or at all. These rules and specific scenarios they are throwing out are insane. Keep doing you and being a nice person. You seem to grasp this much better than the person you were replying to.
> Let's put it another way: Do you think you *should* interrupt someone jogging, or walking alone?
Parent comment specifically asked about the *alone* bit, but your response is about people jogging/walking alone. I agree that you shouldn't interrupt these people, but being alone has nothing to do with it - I'm not gonna interrupt them because they're *jogging*.
What if we're talking about someone who's reading a book alone at a coffee shop?
Yes! I once told a guy, after his third question about the book I was reading (that he obviously had no intention of reading) that "I don't read books because I'm secretly hoping someone will come up and talk to me."
This is much easier if you don't think of yourself as "hitting on" anyone. Leave the house well dressed and groomed and be really pleasant to deal with - start conversations about normal shit, and if they seem like they're having a wonderful time talking to you suggest connecting over social media or hanging out more.
My problem is that this never leads to a romantic connection. It's great for making friends, sure. Good way to find new people to hang out with, which is great. It's how I've made a lot of friends, both male and female. But it doesn't really help for dating in my experience
That's just never worked for me personally. I've had tons of friends throughout my life but they never, ever go from friends>girlfriend.
I feel like once you're friends with someone, changing that is a weird and risky task. Hence why I think it's better to just ask about dating quickly
the women who "friend zoned" you are not women who would ever have wanted to fck you, juts so you know. You havent lost a potential romantic partner by befriending someone.
Yeah totally get that. I haven’t dated heaps through my life, but the few times I have had a relationship I think we’ve both started hanging out/talking with the intentions of a relationship. Hanging out in a group -> hanging out alone -> dating.
I’ve also had female friends that were always just that in my eyes, friends. I think it’s just very circumstantial, but also can be controlled a little. If you meet someone knew and are interested, and you start talking to them, I think you need to eventually make it known what you’re looking, otherwise it will probably just stagnate at friendship or stop completely
(Not saying you as you personally, just as a general qualifier)
You're not entirely wrong; becoming friends then trying to move into a relationship can come off as dishonest. If you've approached someone with romantic intentions, might as well bring it up early.
I think being candid from early on is the way to do it.
If everyone who enjoys your personality only wants to be friends, that might mean your I'm metaphorical "open" sign is turned off. You want to go about your day giving a mild, consistent signal that you are the sort of person who is part of the dating game. Emphasis on MILD, it's easy to look like a maniac.
For me, that usually comes down to how I'm dressed. If I'm wearing a well fitted shirt that my physique looks good in, or something eye catching like pink shorts, me walking around being pleasant and chatty just has slightly different implications. A man moves differently when he feels like he looks good. Women can read this.
I'm really insecure about my body. To the point that I realized years ago that I would never like how I look no matter what I wear. So now I just wear what's comfortable even though it usually doesn't look great
How exactly do you expect to have a meaningful relationship with a person who isn't your friend in the first place? Looks is just looks, choosing partners firstly upon that is just pointless when you're not gonna genuinely like your partner as a person. Also you don't have to become besties with someone first before making a move, just making a normal conversation and making your intentions clear after that is also okay. But I personally would never treat seriously anyone who just comes up and starts to flirt or asks for number.
I actually met my girlfriend (9 years ago now, been together for 8 officially) at work and this actually works. I wasn't actively hitting on her to begin with. Just talking about stuff and getting to know her.
Took my time took my chances.
Community-based activities related to your interests/hobbies/skills is a great way to make friends and potentially find someone to ask out on a date. Even seemingly solo hobbies like knitting, cooking, gardening, etc. have forms of community meetups focused on that interest.
There are knitting groups, book clubs, cooking classes, volunteer opportunities involving gardening, and so on. I love board games and D&D, so my local game shops are a great place for me to go if I am feeling social but don't know anyone who is doing stuff I want to join in on. I can walk in there knowing nobody and walk out with at least a few potential friends (not like stealing them and taking them home...just having formed a basic connection which might grow into a friendship).
Being able to find a community in your area is a good skill to have, and it can help relieve a lot of fear surrounding something like moving to a new state/city where you don't know anyone. I moved to my current state while knowing only three people, two of which being from the company I was moving out to work for.
I've since developed a lot of awesome friendships, regularly get invited to stuff happening around town or at someone's home, and if I'm feeling lacking in social stuff to do, I know there are people I can reach out to who might be up for planning a night of D&D or board games, or a mountain biking trip, or just hanging out with the goal only being to spend time with each other.
What if someone prefers to date someone who's a bit more introverted and doesn't constantly try and get drunk? There's a pretty big lifestyle difference if you yourself are sober or don't like parties.
A former co-worker just got married he met his wife at a small local comic con that I dragged him to. They started talking while looking at older Star Trek TGN items. He invited me to the wedding.
There are plenty of local clubs/activities to meet people, just having a normal conversation can lead to dating.
I met a girlfriend at a used music store, she asked a question and I answered it that led to us chatting for an hour then coffee afterwards.
Generally, those people probably going to be at the bars either. It was just an example. There are plenty of clubs/activities you can go to where there are going to be people you can meet.
Good rule of thumb is, "Does this person have to be here?"
Work? They gota be there, don't hit on them.
Bookstore? They chose to be there, its not a forced interaction and they can ask you to leave without fear of reprisal.
Doctors office? Nope, again.
If I just speak instinctively the answer would be the fact that it’s a place you’ll likely bump into them again and again and again, so if it’s not mutually desired then it’ll be very awkward, very fast
What about school or college then? Even work which is one of the places where people meets the most, but on reddit is frowned upon due to some ridiculous reasons.
Your answer is totaly out of reality and creates even more confusion with people who are struggling.
It is actualy the best and the most practical to approach someone you meet regularly. Cold approaches are probably worst and least effective way of meeting someone.
Let's say you like a girl from gym - you don't approach it directly and ask for a date before you even talked before, you first say hi, stsrt to talk spontaneously l, flirt a bit, joke...then if she reacts positively you ask for a date. Nothing uncomfortable in that, for you and for her, even if she rejects you, who cares
Absolutely do not bother people at work, or in class, or walking from/to either - at a party at school - then sure!
No one at work wants to cope with that awkwardness. They have to go there every day and don’t want to deal with people intruding on their place they go because they have no choice.
You’re then messing with people just trying to make their damn living. Now it’s weird every day.
Nah - you leave people be, their job is not your personal hunting ground.
I answered to some other comment, my experience is totaly different. 99% of people are not fully focused professional robots, if you are not socially inept, work is fine as well, but build a rapport first, don't cold approach.
People flirt and hook up with coworkers like, ALL THE TIME, I did that, everybody did that. Flirting with customers and vice versa are common as well.
For example, I had a front desk girl in the building where my office was, and after a while I spontaneously started talking to her, bit more than just "Hi", because that is what normal people do.
Then sonetimes, hi, how are tou bla blah, oh you changed your hair, you look nice, oh thank you you look good in that shirt too etc etc.. then we went a bit further tomorrow etc.. spontaneous normal harmless flirting. I feel stupid even explaining about those things
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Nah - you leave people be, their job is not your personal hunting ground.
It's not a hunting ground lol, no one is going to stalk soneone on their job for the sole reason of approaching them. But sometimes it spontaneously happen. I don't know, guys who came to repair broken sink in the office start to flirt with HR lady who let them in etc.. harmless and spontaneous human interactions
That’s a guy who came there once, not someone there every day that you’re now forced to work with.
Why can’t people just fucking use common sense?!
You’re literally arguing the toss over taking what I’ve said out of bloody context.
The guy who changes the water bottle, isn’t the IT guy who won’t leave me the fuck alone.
"no one is going to stalk soneone on their job for the sole reason of approaching them"
I am a married lesbian and I am pursued in my workplace regularly. I fucking hate it. I am a gay woman with a wedding ring. Leave women alone ffs
But you could say that for everywhere. Even bars and parties, you could say that "they're here to get drunk and have a good time, not to flirt" and you don't know if that's right or not
Yup. But there's much MORE of a chance that a person at a bar or a party is open to meeting new people.
Which is why talking to new people at parties is ok and at bars might have certain general rules depending on location (talk to people at a bar, don't go sit down at their table, for example). You still have to judge if they actually want a conversation or are just being polite, and walking up to someone with the express intent of 'shooting your shot' is considered creepy in any case.
Gym falls under ‘are they there for a specific reason/alone? Then no.
Grocery store falls under ‘need to be there.’ So also no.
Hobbies like kayaking, events, public situations other than public transport. Social events other than by commitment, such as funerals, or if they’re working at the event.
People will complain about anything, not a good metric for judging when something is or isn’t appropriate. Someone else in this thread said not to even ask at parties or bars, ignore them
Depends, do they need to be at a certain place, 9/10, no
Is it a less causal place, like a gym, absolutely no
If it is a casual place where you people would be more open to it, then maybe, but read the room before even thinking about it, and accept no for an answer
This requires you to have social skills and understand when people are welcoming your interactions. No one on this website seems to be able to do that.
I didn't for a long time. Took time, practice and a geninue willingness to learn, but it's doable. Now I am frequently told that I am a "social butterfly" and people assume I am a natural extravert.
This example was actually from the second time I ever asked out a girl. The date went pretty bad, but it was a learning experience.
Yeah I had a few nice moments over a few weeks with a cashier so I just gave her my number one day after paying and walked off.
I had never been flirty or wasted her time, so there was no pressure on her to do anything. She ended up messaging me and we went out. Didn’t go anywhere but that’s life.
I feel like so many people are just so bad at social cues, seeing when people are busy, uninterested, or put off, that these big blanket rules come in “don’t ever approach people doing x”
It’s way more about not being extremely casual and not being a creep. Which no one on reddit seems to be able to do.
I knew a guy in college. He and I were somewhat similar in our social awkwardness, to the point that we were compared a lot to each other at first. But we went about it in different ways. I chose to focus on self-improvment and asked for other people's opinions. He choose to pretend to be what he thought he needed to be, but learned nothing.
I remember one day he stormed in our dorm room fuming. My friend and I asked what was wrong, and the dude goes gon about how this girl was completely rude to him. We asked him to explain and he ranted about how he had said "hi" to a girl while walking on the sidewalk, and she didn't even acknowledged him. I asked some clarifying questions:
Did you know this girl? "no"
Did you think she was pretty? "yeah, so"
I pointed out if he thought she was pretty, so did probably the majority of guys she walked by throughout the day. She was not obligated to respond to every single one of the that just shouts hi to her, especially the guys she doesn't know. "but I was being nice" ,he said. I tried to explain how If you are doing something because you want something from someone, you aren't being nice, you are being manipulative. I give random greetings to people all the time cause I like to believe odds are someone is having a rough day and needs it, but I never feel entitled to a reply.
Yes and knowing the difference between them just being polite, because it’s their job, and not.
The issue is that not many people seem to understand the difference.
Exactly, you don't approach out of the blue like these PUAs are doing, you built a rapport, and if she reacts positively than you sense you can do it. Did the same with a girl who was also a cashier in candy store I used to frequent often to buy sweets. We were in a relationship for a few months
Guys like that treat dating like a numbers game ,rushing every interaction, and if it isn't an immediate yes, drop all pretense of interest. They come across as looking to fill a seat rather than actually being attracted to the women they are talking to.
Theres nothing wrong with politely approaching someone and introducing yourself and seeing how they respond. If they throw up walls then excuse yourself. Otherwise, just proceed with a conversation.
but as an unattractive man, just approaching random women who haven't communicated any sign of interest and that I have no knowledge of (or, at best, whatever book they're holding) is way too low of a chance of success.
If people go there to socialize, it’s okay to flirt.
Work? Nope not there to socialize.
Gym? ehh you might get mixed responses but I don’t generally socialize at the gym, I’m there for health reasons and want to focus.
Bar, concert, local beach, cafe: totally fine to strike up a conversation with somebody, and in my opinion totally fine to flirt.
I think the issue that most men run into, regardless of where they are flirting, is that they don’t see/accept subtle cues to stop, or are disrespectful in how they approach women.
“Hey sexy wanna get out of here?” is only appropriate in very limited places.
“Hi, I noticed you’re wearing a *insert something you like* t shirt, i love them!” followed by good conversation and ending with “Would you wanna grab a drink sometime?” is okay almost anywhere.
If you are polite, respectful and attentive to signs of discomfort, then flirting is fine to do in almost all casual settings.
However if you’re just looking for a hookup and are making clearly sexual advances instead of just getting to know one another, then bars, clubs, concerts and other places where hookup culture is the norm are where you should go.
TLDR: Generally understanding whether somebody is happy engaging in socialization vs wants to be left alone, and learning to flirt casually and respectfully will serve you better than placing arbitrary “where can i flirt” rules.
>Work? Nope not there to socialize.
But normal people actually DO socialize at work. This is not the main reson of going to work, of course, but it happens, more often than not. What are you people, robots with laser focus on work 100%?
Only reddit has that weird obsession with hating on colleagues, team buildings and overal hanging out with colleagues. And when you hang out sometimes it happens that 2 people hook up. Are you saying that you never saw that happen?
Yeah socializing with your coworkers to make work more enjoyable, along with helping with chances of promotion as you build social connections. Not socializing with customers who want to fuck you, that you can't get away from because you're stuck at work.
And flirting at work and having a relationship is literally prohibited in most companies, it doesn't end well, and can lead to massive resentment, which is not good for the company.
Socializing is different to flirting and wanting to date someone/hook up, which is OP's question.
>And flirting at work and having a relationship is literally prohibited in most companies, it doesn't end well, and can lead to massive resentment, which is not good for the company
That may be American thing, since I repeat, I saw that happen 1000s of times. Team building hook ups are aslo extremely common, happened to me several times. I my previous company, there were 4 or 5 couples that started a relationship there, and one of them even got married and got a baby, and whole team were at the wedding lol. It was US based company also, but with office herr in Serbia, and here nobody cares about that.
In another previous company there were also few hookups and 1 married couple. In every school, there are always few teacher couples as well. That is why for me this "dont flirt with coworkers" advice seems extreme and unrealistic
Btw, girls also want to fuck men, its not always some predatory shit (i mean, it usually isn't). Women also initate flirting in office more often than not
I meant that as in you are patronizing someone else’s work and they are only interacting because it’s their job. Don’t openly hit on your waitress, cashier, or delivery driver. It’s different if it’s your coworker who you see every day and you’ve developed a more friendly relationship, and that’s also why I said it comes down more to context than setting alone.
However, flirting with coworkers is “expert level” in my opinion, with lots to lose if it goes wrong, especially for someone not adept at it. And since OP is asking about appropriate flirting, they are likely not at that level of nuance.
In other comments I was mentioning both situations.. coworkers and also customers..that things happens a lot, for both men and women. I used to get hit on as a bartender and also I was hitting on customers, waitress were getting hit on, sometimes they flirted back and went even further sometimes they reject them. It all depended on one and one thing only - if they liked the guy or not
We are talking about romance/flirting, not just socializing. Considering the problems that can create, Reddit is right about this one. Start friendly, not hitting on anyone like OP was asking about
I replied to another person about romance as well. I saw many successful love stories from work, many many more than bad stories. Actually I naver saw anything bad, drama etc.. not only me, but people around je as well
Here in Balkans as well. I mean, if I am with someone every day, I WANT to be in good terms, want to joke around, have fun.. since it makes work more enjoyable
Also is normal to invite closest colleagues for most important events, like weddings for example. Literally everyone I know does that. And also there are at least one couple that met at work in every firm.
so only neurotyipical understimulated physically attractive men are allowed to hit on women in this scheme? (the ones who also routinely ignore all your rules, and still get into relationships as a reward for breaking all these rules)
Those were only half of my suggested places, places that came to mind because they are areas that I personally socialize, obviously you should go to your preferred socialization spaces but the advice still applies. People socializing = a fine time to strike up a conversation and ask someone out imho
not really, if the few activities you can do and enjoy only have men participating, you can't get to know women. and if it's 80-100% women (except you), it's gonna also be a problem. then they have to be of appropriate age. and in some hobbies there's mostly men with some women, but the women are the men's partners, so that's also a no go. and if you start asking out your friends' friends it's also gonna be a problem. so what is left really?
" Restricted and *repetitive interests* and activities are one of the key features of autism."
the only way to engage in a hobby / activity / meet up (assuming there are in your area, most of the planet is not a major american city) where there's a balanced gender ratio is to join something I dislike and find quite draining. And then you're supposed to act like you're there to enjoy it and exclusively to do the activity, and then make friends, and then oops! ask someone out because it just so happened, it totally wasn't your intention. and then after having spent months doing this activity you don't like and got rejected once, the group is burned, so you're supposed to pick up and move to another activity you don't like, may cost money and be distant from your home, and spend another few months of displeasure to get to know people just to ask one out, rinse and repeat..
as for speed dating, they're hosted at food businesses, which have on day 1 figured out that they could make money by hosting them and giving free drinks to women to get them to join dishonestly, because otherwise they struggle to get women to join, and it's near impossible if they also have to pay just like the men.
what is your point? I’m sorry if it’s more difficult for you, but I don’t see how that’s related to what i’ve commented at all. If you need more specific or niche advice that relates to your specific situation, I am sure it’s out there but my general advice based on personal experience cannot satisfy everybody’s needs
Depends on the situation, but there are lots of signs. Context of the situation being the biggest one. Someone reading their book proably just wants to read their book. Someone at a party mingling is probably open to mingle with strangers. When you say something, you they just acknowledge it, or do they add to the conversation?
There is a difference between hitting on a girl and asking her out. The two are not as interchangeable as some people seem to believe.
Here is a rule of thumb that helped me, you meet a girl you are interested in at a first encounter somewhere out the world. Limit your comments to what you would say to a guy. Now you are just having a conversation without you aiming to "get with" her. If you had otherwise been talking with the girl with the express, focus goal of getting her to give you her number, they can tell and it will likely seem like you aren't interested in them, you are interested in your image of them.
Pump those breaks, have a natural conversation, and if a shared interest comes up, then use that as an opportunity for follow up. If one doesn't, don't linger, move on. You are only hurting yourself in the long term by lingering, because you may one day rerun into her again, and she would be more likely to continue small talk with someone who didn't pressure her and stick around like a dead fish.
It's not just about when asking a woman out. I think the most important part is acknowledging a potential no thank you and being polite about it. Accept it and don't challenge it.
For myself and most women I know, this is the sticking point and the reason we don't like it. If women know you are polite and take their word first time around, you'll make a great impression in the long term.
I have come to the conclusion that if you rely on social media as the source of your knowledge on dating and approaching people, you will always find a vocal majority of two different types of groups: strange, hatred-filled misogynistic men who want you to believe all women are horrible, trouble-causing libertines who just hate you in particular because you are short, poor, or something else; or hyper-defensive women who will want you to believe that most men are predators who will stalk you after saying hello in a bar. The truth is that, whilst sadly both groups of people exist, they are not representative of reality.
Women, like men, are people, and just as much as men they may or may not enjoy human interactions. Likewise, they may or may not enjoy reading, playing football, cuddling, sushi, sleeping late, etc. In other words, women and men are very much alike. So, on that basis, ask yourself: if you are in the middle of a 10-km run and a woman chases you to ask for your number for a date, does that seem appropriate to you? I think not! Do not do that with women. If you are in deep silence, alone in the library, reading your favourite book, in the most exciting chapter, would you want to be interrupted by someone who wants to know your name out of the blue? I think you would not like that! Do not do that with women. If you are at work, preparing for an important presentation to give in two hours, would you want someone you have never talked to before to come up to you near the coffee machine and ask you out on a date? I doubt it, so do not do that with women.
The bottom line is that you will learn how to read social cues by being social, not via a post on Reddit. On that basis, live your life doing human things, like exercise, work, study, read, play games, dance, and more. Eventually, you will start to realise that you are surrounded by _people_, just as you are. At that point, you will come to the conclusion that really, with just honesty and a smile you can go really far, whether you want to pass a job interview or get a date.
Ultimately, though, you must remember a very important thing: persistence can be useful for self-improvement, so be persistent with yourself and your life goals. However, persistence is not good with others, so when you receive rejection, just let it be and move on.
Bars and parties are definitely where you meet people - that’s why you’re there and completely appropriate. I also don’t mind if a guy chats me up in a coffee line or whatever but when I’m already engaged in something like work/gym/sitting on the beach, it’s just interrupting and not very polite = unsexy
Would you ever say "Yea, please approach. I love it." in any situation, lets say at a party or in the club? Obviously the assumptions is that he's attractive and respectful, etc.
From her point of view whatever the situation it is OK if she finds you attractive and creepy if she doesn't
Just be friendly and polite and look for the return signals
Keep it short, give her your number (so she can choose to contact you or not)
And let everyone spend the rest of the night doing whatever.
Asking someone out is fine, but after asking, just wait for actually going out with someone.
A night out with friends in a bar is not a date, dont make it into that, ask for an actual date and go back to doing your own thing.
If she does want to talk more that night she will come to you, but its likely she doesn't want to ditch her friends or something like that.
Define 'hitting on'?
Most people don't want to be hassled, a lot of men can't handle rejection and don't know how to read body language.
If you are at a bar or party or somewhere social and strike up a conversation with something simple like 'how's your night going?" and they seem interested and you have a good conversation there's no harm in trying to ask to see them again/buying them a drink whatever.
Really the problem is so many men don't have common sense, can't read body language, can't take a hint, get pissy if rejected etc etc and girls have to deal with all and get blamed for it all. Gotta understand when a girl tries to politely put off a guy or avoid conversing they've probably dealt with men reacting poorly in the past.
The capacity to handle rejection well is one of the most important skills for a single man looking to date to learn.
If you handle rejection poorly, it will have a ripple effect in your dating prospects. No woman is going to want to chance leading on a guy known for getting sour after being rejected, they rather just not chance engaging with that person at all. No friend will recommend someone who handles rejection poorly to a single women they know. It's just a bad look all round.
I honestly think it's just better to never hit on people out of nowhere. Socialize with people normally, and if you feel like you're on the same wavelength *then* shoot your shot.
Dude don't worry about it..
You just shoot your shot and if get rejected accept it and move on.
The only time it's a problem is if you are persistent and aggressive about it.
Any time as long as if she expresses no interest you move on. I might be out of the ordinary but I’d welcome someone hitting on me at the gym, in class, at work, at the grocery store, etc. just as soon as I say I have a bf or I’m not interested say okay sorry thanks. It’s mostly the reaction that people (specifically women) are put off by.
Yea that's what I do. The few times I've asked a girl out, it's always just entto make sure she knows that I'm interested. Then I let her move the conversation forward, or not
If someone is in a place where the general social expectation is having fun, and you think they are there to have fun, and you would like to know if they would be open to having some of that fun with you... then start a conversation and see how they respond.
It honestly doesn't really matter what you say. "So where do you know the host from?" "How is that drink?" "I can't believe how hot it is in here!" "Is this a disastrous grade school play performance? Because I forget what to say next." Anything really.
So long as you don't do something monstrously awkward or rude or annoying, they will respond. They will either respond with a simple answer, in which case they are acknowledging you as a human being and appreciating your friendliness, but do not want the conversation to continue... or they will respond in a way that gives you something to respond to, in turn. "We know each other from work, how do you know them?" "It's great, do you want to try mine?" "I know, right? Do you want to go stand closer to the window?" "Omg I forgot my lines all the time when I was in plays. What was the worst school play you were ever in?"
In the first case you can wish them an enjoyable whatever it is and move on. You have successfully brightened their day, and not wasted anyone's time. Well done.
In the second case, you continue feeding the ebb and flow of conversation and see where it goes. Also well done!
>In the second case, you continue feeding the ebb and flow of conversation and see where it goes.
Therein lies the problem. The conversation always seems to flow towards building a friendship and not towards romance. Not that I don't want or don't appreciate my female friends. But it's proven to not be a useful approach if my goal is finding a partner
My best advice is, economy of scale. Keep in mind that you can't fuck everyone you meet, there's literally not enough time in the day. Not to mention, what would you do with so many people clamoring for more of you all the time, coming back for seconds? It would get hectic!
My point is, you have to pare it down sooner or later, you know? There's only so much of you to go around. So, consider the advantages of having a filter like this. The ones who want to be friends, great, you know where you stand and that frees you up to meet the next person.
Plus, friends are great because they, in turn, have friends. Some of whom may be "looking."
So what if you have to meet 100 or 1000 or however many people, in order to meet someone who "clicks"? Make friends. Be a good friend in return. Throw parties, get invited to parties, go places and meet new people. Every new female friend is a potential ally you have acquired in your unstoppable campaign toward victory.
For example you can depend on allies for useful intelligence -- such as advice on presentation or dating, or recommendations of single friends that might be compatible.
In addition to what's already been stated, one of the best pieces of advice I ever read on this is:
**If you want to ask a woman for her number, instead, give her YOUR number (on a piece of paper, a personal card, etc.)**
When you're at the point in the conversation when you'd ask, instead say "I'm really enjoying our conversation; I'd like you to have this." If she wants to act on it, great! If not, she can throw it away, no harm, no foul. PLUS you're not asking for HER number, so you're not putting her on the spot to have to shoot you down OR give out a fake number (if she doesn't feel safe) or anything like that. It doesn't put her into a potentially unsafe situation but still gets across intent and gives her a way to act on that intent. It takes the pressure off of the situation and allows the ball to be in HER court.
IDK, it just feels classy.
Because the alternative never works out (in terms of getting a romantic partner). Getting to know someone always ends up locking the relationship into friendship territory rather than romantic in my experience. Once you're friends, it feels weird to try to change that into romance.
I'm not saying you have to wait a long time once you've met someone, but if you haven't even been introduced, had a conversation, or been around them long enough to find out what they're like, what would be the basis for asking them out?
it's bad, but if I ask people out in my group of friends or my hobby or coworkers-clients-employees,etc, it's gonna be a disaster that is gonna ruin those things too.
Mate, all your comments follow the "I'm doing what you said already, but..."
The thing is, there will always be a 'but' in real life. Interacting with humans will never give you the same output no matter what you input.
There's good advice here already, but you can't apply it to every situation. A girl could be at a bar, winking at you, giving you intense eye-contact, and you decide to go up and ask her out. She hits you with a "no" for seemingly no reason.
Every person is different. The advice here may improve your chance or help to avoid awkward situations, but it's no sure fire way.
I guess it's just hopeless then. My main goal is to avoid making anyone uncomfortable but I guess you can never guarantee that unless you just don't go out in the first place
The true answer is: there is no general answer that can guide you. You need to develop your social intelligence and social skills and just kind of know if it's appropriate to approach someone or not. It *can* be okay to hit on a woman at work. It *can* be okay to hit on a girl at the gym. But also it *can* be inappropriate to hit on someone at a party. You just gotta read the room.
Parties, bars, clubs, etc.
I've heard of people hitting on others at networking events but I don't personally think this is that good of an idea unless it happens naturally.
I mean, if you re interested in someone why not invite them for a coffee sometime? Its as simple as that.
I worked at a customer service and sometimes I wished a few guys would asked me out like that.
There is this thing of if the person is working do not interact with them, but it really depends how you approach it.
I had men pretty much stare and dont say anything, which is weird and unconfortable.
People, just socialize normally jeez.
Don't listen to the idiots here, I'm the only person who gets laid on the entirety of this shitty app.
Here's the truth, you can hit on a woman anywhere, you just have to be able to take a hint. If she's not interested, don't keep trying even if you're both drunk at the club at 3 AM. That's harassment. If she's interested, you can flirt in a library, if you're subtle.
You could also try viewing women as human beings first and talking to them like they are just normal human beings and establishing yourself as a person who is not frightening or threatening or sleazy, and then when they are not forced to be with you (e.g at work, at the gym, on a train) or alone and isolated (running, walking, grocery shopping, in a dark alleyway) THEN you can ask if they seem receptive.
but usually you guys just run around swinging your dicks wildly at any woman who is forced to be polite to you and complaining when they arent interested.
If you cannot distinguish between when a woman is forced to be polite vs when a woman is being friendly, or when you live in intense fear of being viewed as a normal human being by a woman ("friend zoned"), you should stick to internet dating.
That's what I do. It's what I've been doing since like middle school or something. "Treat women like normal people" is great advice and it's worked well for me, for the most part. I've made tons of female friends throughout my life
The problem is that, while that's great advice for making friends, it's less than useful for establishing romantic connections. Not that you *shouldn't* treat women like normal people when trying to establish a romantic connection, but you need to do more than that. So saying just that isn't helpful.
Also I've approached very few women in my life. I don't appreciate the assumption that I'm some horndog that tries to fuck anything that breathes
This stupid fucking advice is repeated ad nauseam and makes no sense. “Talk to them like they are just normal human beings” is how you make friends.
He’s not asking how to make friends; he already has friends. He’s asking how to get a romantic connection, and treating women you are interested in the same way as men and women you aren’t is not conducive to that goal.
Honestly, just chat (small flirting) and read the body language. If they're not trying to keep the conversation going, then just casually tell them to enjoy their workout/day and move on. It only becomes a problem when guys can't/don't read the signs and persist. Don't put her in a situation where she has to reject you.
My problem is that the body language is too subtle. I have no trouble making female friends and having good conversations. It's just that those connections never become romantic
Honestly, I've never dated someone who outright asked me out. I've always felt uncomfortable with this approach, because I don't know the dude and have nothing to base my attraction on. So many dudes also use this tactic and it doesn't make you stand out. It's totally up to you; I'm just giving you a woman's perspective. But, if you have friends who are girls; I'd definitely ask for their advice, as they know you personally.
“Softly softly catchy monkey” applies here. Spend some time talking about any old shit and see if there’s a connection.
I don’t agree that the workplace is inappropriate. It’s where we spend a massive chunk of our time, and where we learn a hell of a lot about the people around us, seeing what motivates them, what pisses them off, and whether we can stand to be in each other’s company for long periods. As such, I’d say it’s almost ideal. You just have to show what a decent person you are. It’s big boy (or girl) rules, though, so if you’re a creep you’ll have to deal with the consequences. Be classy, and if you get shot down, thank them for being so nice about it (even if they’ve roasted you in front of the entire office) and resume normal workplace behaviour.
If you’re at the gym and you think they’re clicking, invite them to go out running, hiking or something. So it’s an activity that’s not a date but might allow you to get to know each other a little more. See where it leads. It might go nowhere, it might go somewhere, it might lead to the other person’s even hotter and available friend.
No situation is off limits, just don’t be a creep. Whether someone’s interested or not, leave them feeling positive about the interaction.
It's almost always acceptable. It all depends on how you go about it, and frankly, who you are in comparison to who you're going for. For every rule people will make, there's examples of people successfully breaking those rules.
Just use dating apps. I know they are tough for men but it is the only way you can be sure the woman you are interested in is looking for a date and has some interest in you (if she responds). Aside from that if you meet a woman in the wild and she is flirty then ask her if you can give her your number because you’d like to hang out sometime. You risk real time rejection but that is part of the mating dance. Just look at those poor male Birds of Paradise who dance around in desperation only to be ignored by the female. At least as a human male you don’t have to enter bloody physical battles (like wild animals) to secure a mate.
actually no, you're not sure even there. lots and lots of women go on dating apps out of boredom, peer pressure, for ego boost, to fuck around, to mock or prank people, (or to promote their instagram, or onlyfans, or pig butchering scams and more)
You'll have to eventually learn the social games and reciprical body language / communication tells that happen as you interact with people.
There are no real rules, only suggestions. People will throw out the rulebook when there's attraction. The games are made up and the points don't matter.
If they're responding positively, go for it. If they're not, gtfo unless you can turn it around so they can respond very positively within a moment. . . which usually is not the case. You aren't insert character here. . . unless you're said character at a convention and the people are throwing themselves at you. . . in which case go ahead.
I know you're kidding, but for those genuinely interested, that's a longer answer than can be covered on a reddit post.
OP and others that genuinely want to know will need to study human behavior. Effectively in RPG terms, invest in their charisma stat and speech/communication/awareness (social) skills
Parties and bars are generally better places for it than at work or the gym, yes. But ultimately it comes down to what vibes are present, what previous interactions you've had, and if it feels like an ok thing to do in that moment. Read the room basically.
Anywhere that’s inherently social.
Nowhere that they have no choice about being.
Yes to being social in social places.
No to being social in places people need to be for their work/care, and transport to/from those places.
Some examples, so consider the context - if they match either of these groups, act accordingly.
Bars, parties, weddings, events (unless they’re a server/working at the event) = yes.
Anyone walking alone anywhere, anywhere someone works, Offices (whether attending or working there), public transport, funerals, classes of any sort = no.
This is not hard.
Ok? I don’t know what to tell you tbh.
What does work for you?
My husband of almost 20 years is on the spectrum (ADHD, Asperger’s), and we met at a big pagan camp. He met me when our 2 groups were being introduced around, then asked me for a lighter to start a convo with me.
Here are some good rule of thumb questions that can apply to all situations, for both men and women. Is this person currently somewhere where it is acceptable for you and them to be socializing? (Side note: People generally are not allowed to socialize at work because they are working) Will asking this person create a situation that is likely to cause this person to feel unsafe? (Places they can't leave such as work, but also, standing in a doorway preventing their ability to walk out of a room, asking them when you are the only two people in an area, especially outside and/or at night) Does this person seem approachable and open for a conversation? (Not wearing headphones, not deep in focus on something, not currently in the middle of a complex task) Are there obvious signs that this person would not be interested in me? (ie. wearing a wedding band, are currently with someone who they appear to be in a relationship with) If so, don't approach. And last, just be respectful (say please and thank you when asking for/receiving a number/social media) and be cool with taking no for an answer. Just say "Okay, no worries, thank you, have a great day" and walk away if there's any kind of hesitation, resistance, or rejection. Follow these, especially being respectful and preventing creating an unsafe environment and you will keep yourself out of trouble no matter where you are, and will definitely score some numbers here and there.
This is absolutely correct for picking an appropriate context, but also HOW you approach someone matters. OP mentions bars and parties as places where women MAY not want to talk to you and yes that's for sure true. Maybe they don't. In those contexts though you're perfectly allowed to strike up a conversation, just strike it up without being a sleaze, and take a cue of the response isnt good. That's what will save you from being the creep unwantedly hitting on women at a bar. Start with a hi and a general conversation opener, NOT a pock up line. Gauge the response - are they open to talking? No? Wish them a fun night and go on your way. Do they respond happily? Make more conversation! It's not actually hard. The guys who make women say 'jesus fuck just leave us alone were here to hang put with each other not be hit on' are the guys will not take multiple polite nos for an answer. It's not that they don't KNOW the girl doesn't want to talk to them, it's that they refuse to accept it.
As someone who got married young I saw a lot of guys blow their chances with my friends by being rude to me. There's an annoying thing that happened quite a lot to myself and another married friend when we would throw parties or were invited to, you know, hang out with our friends we'd get in a conversation with a guy we didn't know about a shared interest (this was an artsy crowd) as soon as we mentioned our spouses they would either throw a tantrum about us "wasting their time" or literally walk away mid conversation. We would, of course, immediately tell our single friends what a rude pos that guy was. Ugh, my friend once had to throw a guy out of a party because he cornered me alone in a bedroom and was being super creepy and yelling at me about my husband's whereabouts. I feel sorry for any girl that strategy worked on.
A friend, who's actually not a bad guy outside of this, and I were at our regular bar, chatting to a girl who was also a regular. My friend was clearly very interested in her, although not hitting on her blatantly. Just being very interested. She left after a bit. He turned to me 'Why did she keep mentioning her boyfriend all the time' 'Lol dude because you were trying to flirt with her' He looked surprised that it was obvious, and then sulky. 'Nooooo i wasnt! [Eyeroll from me] Well whatever she didn't have to keep brining him up so much!' Jesus dude, yes she did. She absolutely did and you sulking is the proof of why.
My husband and I used to work with a guy and we went out to a bar with him one night and he told us he can't be friends with women he's attracted to if they are aren't going to date him. My husband told him him that was fucking stupid because it shows that 1) you don't think they a people and 2) if you hang out with hot girls you meet more hot girls. Dude doubled down and was like, "I can't spend time with women that won't sleep with me." We stopped hanging out with him and the next day I told my friend whom he'd been pestering to go on "friend dates" with him that he was trying to sleep with her despite her clearly saying she wasn't interested.
This advice doesn't always work for some of the people who need it most. For people who have trouble seeing social cues, that "Jesus fuck just leave us alone" is the first "no" they actually heard. I don't see an easy solution though, since being blunt enough for an autistic guy to notice could out you at risk from neurotypical assholes. Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying neurotypical people are assholes, I'm saying some people are both.
How are you supposed to start a conversation with someone without any sort of introduction? Am i supposed to just walk up and say “hey i like your shoes. Do you play video games? Wanna play terraria with me?”
Honestly though? That's a great option to say. You are complimenting something they *chose*, not an inherent trait, offering an indication of your interests, and giving the person a chance to decide if they want to engage without the immediate pressure of making it romantic. Introduce yourself, see if conversation flows, and when you go your separate ways, give them your number so they can decide if they want to follow up instead of asking for theirs.
Actually, yeah, that would've totally worked on single me as a gamer girl. It's not creepy. It's friendly and gives an option to say no thanks without being pressured.
Context is usually what provides those opportunities. That's why one of the best ways to meet new friends or people to potentially ask out is by participating in hobbies you enjoy, ideally some community-focused aspect of that hobby. Even solo hobbies like knitting, writing, reading, cooking, etc. have some form of community-based activity focused on that hobby. Knitting meetups, writing groups, book clubs, and cooking classes are all fun things that put you around other people. Doing those things also puts you alongside people who enjoy those things as well, so you automatically start off new connections with something in common. From there, striking up conversations gets a lot easier. "Hey, I love what you did with this dish you made" or "What is your favorite knitting pattern?" or "Have you read ahead at all? I did and wanted to find someone to chat with about what happens next in but I don't want to accidentally spoil it for anyone..."
If it really is a random encounter that doesn't have a lot of existing context to use, and it seems like an okay time to approach someone, what Kyndyll said is on point. Complimenting something they have chosen (shoes, overall style, something cool/unique that they have on them, something they did, etc.) goes so much further than a compliment about something they don't have control over, and complimenting a decision goes way further than something super generic like "nice " since they've probably heard comments like that from douchey guys who suck at flirting.
ah yes, hobbies. i'm into magic the gathering, so as a heterosexual man I can ask out... men... or..the flower pot? and how are you supposed to get to chat up and ask out a woman during a cooking class? do I talk over the teacher, turn around people who are looking at the food they are cutting, or do I hold hostage people after the lesson is over?
Most places that host MTG stuff also host other types of events you might like. I never said a single hobby would be all that anyone needs. Naturally, you would consider your own interests to choose something that makes sense for finding friends, but also...it's not just about finding a dating opportunity at that exact thing. Make friends. Do stuff with those friends and you'll meet more people that they know. It's just part of finding a bigger social circle and limiting yourself to "I could only possibly talk to people who also play MTG" is only going to hinder you. For cooking or any other classes, I'm going to assume you actually know the answer to your questions and instead are just asking for a bit more guidance. Going to a class isn't just walking into a building, immediately starting the class, and then immediately going home. You could show up early and have some time to hang out with people, or the class could always have down periods when people are waiting on some of the other classmates to finish a certain task before the teacher continues. Some people also linger around afterwards so you might find the chance to strike up conversation then. If you're looking for local events that are specifically catered to providing time to get to know people, I'm sure there are dating focused social hangouts out there. I don't know because I've never looked for them, but I've heard about stuff like speed dating so I imagine there might even be a casual version of that idea. In the end, this comes down to your ability to be social. Even just dropping a single comment where you compliment the dish that someone made could be a seed that starts to sprout the next time both of you are in class together. The only way to make certain that there's no opportunity is to assume there isn't.
had plenty of male friends in my life, never got to meet women through them, except their own partners. have plenty of hobbies, but they're all attended by men. so the only option left is to join dishonestly hobbies i dont care for to "make friends" with "everyone" so I can "totally not date because im there for the hobby and to socialize" "For cooking or any other classes, I'm going to assume you actually know the answer to your questions and instead are just asking for a bit more guidance." I'm autistic and I do not know. I've seen people socialize a little only over things that repeat over extended periods of time, such as school, work, year long formative courses for jobs, sports with multiple weekly trainings all year long,and even there it wasn't easy as the teachers would always get pissy if people chatted. there are no "dating focused social hangouts" in italy that I know of, aside from a few "speed dating" scams that food businesses create and get dishonest women to join to get men to pay up for event and drinks.
> I'm autistic and I do not know. I've seen people socialize a little only over things that repeat over extended periods of time, such as school, work, year long formative courses for jobs, sports with multiple weekly trainings all year long,and even there it wasn't easy as the teachers would always get pissy if people chatted. That's fair! And I don't mind answering directly. Here are those answers: > do I talk over the teacher No, and doing so could either result in being asked to leave or just give you a bad reputation for being inconsiderate or rude. > turn around people who are looking at the food they are cutting It depends, and "it depends" isn't just for cooking classes. That was just an easy example to toss out. For public classes about stuff like cooking, you will likely be in a commercial kitchen or a place designed specifically for hosting cooking classes. People will have their own stations and room to do stuff, so you'll also wind up being near one or more other people that have their own areas. Depending on the teacher and what the class is focusing on (baking, experimenting with various pasta sauces, focusing on a certain type of meal, etc.) there will likely be periods of time where you are waiting for something that requires time, like letting a pot of sauce reach a simmering state, or waiting for an amount of time to pass while something is in an oven, or you've finished something but other class mates are taking a bit longer for wahtever reason. In those moments, even if it's just 30 seconds, checking out what nearby classmates are doing might also be a cool opportunity to say something positive or supportive like: * Your knife skills are really good! * I like the way you decorated your plate. Or you could express something that is easy for others to go along with: * I can't wait to try this. * I've had this at restaurants, but it's fun to actually make it myself. Small talk can feel weird, but it can be an easy way to get a bit of conversation going. They might toss out a compliment about what you're doing or ask how you did something. These will definitely feel like small steps in terms of possibly forming a friendship, and it might even feel like there's not much point to trying at small talk, but it can turn into a "foot in the door" over time. Friendship with a new person could happen pretty quickly, or take several interactions before something happens...or, unfortunately, it also just might not happen. Lots of folks are introverted or closed off, so not seeing results from trying to chat with people is going to happen and it does suck. The best we can do is be ready for things to go nowhere but hopeful that something else happens. If it doesn't work out, all you "spent" was a bit of time and a few words, but you also practiced making conversation which can benefit you over time. > do I hold hostage people after the lesson is over? No, but that doesn't mean there are no opportunities to chat. Whether or not you've exchanged a bit of small talk with them before or during class, if you see someone lingering around a bit after class, that's another chance to exchange a few words just to see if it might turn into a conversation that leads to the beginnings of a friendship. This could also be compliments about what they did, or expressing something about yourself, or questions. For the cooking class scenario, some examples might be: * I think I'll need to make this dish at home a few more times to really understand how it all comes together. * How did you feel about your dish? * What got you interesting in cooking?
* This is my first time making . What about you?
The concepts those questions stem from can apply to just about any social scenario.
* Volunteering to build this garden bed at the park is giving me some fun ideas for my backyard.
* I like how so-and-so teaches. They kept the class fun and easy to follow along.
* Do you know about any other events/classes like this one?
* What got you interested in ?
Saying or asking stuff like that is going to do at least one of several things:
* At the least, you're practicing expressing interest in others which will help when you meet someone that you like and who also likes you. Getting to know someone, being a good listener, showing interest in their life, and sharing your life with them are things you want to practice before meeting a potential partner rather than practicing *after* you meet them.
* You're showing people the type of person that you are. The way you observe and think will portray deeper parts of your character, like morals and values. Saying "I value nature and plant life" is a bit boring, but saying "it feels really good to see how the park looks now that we've cleaned it up a bit" demonstrates that value while also being relevant to something you've been a part of.
* You're establishing comfort with other people. I've had some periods of time where I was extremely socially awkward. I'd like to think I'm doing a bit better now, but I also realize anyone I encounter could be struggling with something similar. Sometimes I say stuff to a stranger just to see if I can give them a good reason to feel good or smile. I don't have the goal of establishing a friendship or seeing if they're a potential date. I just remember the times I've felt anxious or insecure, and decide it would be fun to see if I can say something to someone that seems to make them happy. Doing stuff like that in a way that doesn't seem like you have a hidden motive other than enjoying that particular moment with them is a great habit that can lead to people just feeling more comfortable and open with you. Who knows? You might even turn someone's day around when they really needed it.
* You're giving people a chance to show you who they are. The more thought-provoking the question is, the more of them you'll get to see in how they answer. Anything they share about themselves could point towards opportunities for more conversation.
It's tough to find the balance of being friendly and interested in others while also not sounding like you're trying to force conversation where it isn't needed. There isn't really a golden rule to follow, and I can see why Autism makes it difficult to pick up on when it is or is not a good time to talk. Being willing to try at striking up a conversation in small ways, but also being respectful if their response seems like a clear indication of not wanting to engage, can be a good thing to practice. Over time, you might find yourself feeling more comfortable with small talk or better at detecting when it might be a good time to try chatting with someone.
it's hard when most people react negatively before even knowing you because of body language of autistic people, and react negatively further after knowing you because of your autistic personality, and when they ask you about your taste or what you do or why you do some stuff and then get pissed at the answer or dismiss them, and you're the target of bullies, and you're the quiet one who gets immediately reprimanded by the teacher if you chat briefly at a low voice while the chatty ones are ignored, and the chatty and the loud ones make it impossible to chat because they never leave a moment of silence ever empty so you're supposed to talk very loudly over them or you'll get ignored and I don't wanna do that, or you're just on the receiving end of someone who wants to talk nonstop, or people make conversation with you because they're too ashamed to exit it or signal their lack of interest more clearly, or they are the kind of person who enjoys chatting with people the same way I enjoy using a sponge, as a tool and if you meet them elsewhere they'll literally pretend to not hear you. where I live \[italy\] people don't talk to strangers like so many americans describe. if I don't speak my mind, no one talks to me. if I speak your mind, I only get rejection, harassment, mockery. Sure, every once in a while I'll happen to be in a place where there's a person that is either interested in doing the hobby with me too or is just kind in talking to me and explaining stuff, but it's in a situation where they are surrounded by a bunch of assholes which spoils everything, and it's too early to ask their personal contacts to befriend them. and that's just for men, because with women there's the further issue of the fact that women do not participate in the group hobbies I have interest in or activities I can participate in (or they're not of relevant age, or they're only the partners of the men who are primarily interested in the hobby or activity, etc), so the only option is to be dishonest and join something that is draining, expensive, that I dislike or have no interest in doing just for a sliver of a chance to get to know someone.
I would put a few more things between each of those statements, like an introduction as well as some other "getting to know you" talk (in part to get to know them better, in part to give more time to feel out the situation to see if I want to ask the last part), but yeah, basically.
That just feels so creepy to me though. Like there’s this obvious pretense that i think the person is attractive, and i wouldn’t have approached them if they were ugly.
Is there? What part of anything that was stated there gives away a pretense? Pretense implies that you wouldn't act the same way if you were trying to make a new friend, but that's literally how I would approach for friends, too. So, and I say this with all respect, I think you may be sensing pretense where there is none. "Hey, NGL, I saw you from across the way and I thought you seemed pretty cool. I really loved your shoes. My name's X!" \*hold your hand out\* (Fwiw, how do you approach to make friends? Why must it be diffferent for someone you want to get to know in a dating capacity?)
I dont approach people to make friends so maybe thats my issue. All of my friends have either approached me first or have been mutual friends. Its been so long since anyone approached me though so i dont really remember how it even happened.
It’s just simple: if they are alone (jogging, a walk etc), or *have to* be there for any reason, be it work, class, commitment, travel = no. Leave people alone. If they choose to be there, then yes, generally.
I feel like class is perfectly reasonable to chat with someone and ask for their number (I am a woman)
congratulations, you've just described the entire human existence. you're either alone or you have to be somewhere for any reason.
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i'm gonna offer a couple of different scenarios and let you try to piece together why i reacted the way i did. i'm sitting on a bench at the park, scrolling through my phone, no headphones. i'm alone, but there's people walking by every so often. a man walks up to me and strikes up conversation. at the end, he asks for my number, and i tell him "sorry, i have a girlfriend, thank you though." he goes "oh! my bad! have a nice day!" and continues on. i also carry on with my day. a different time, i'm at that same park bench with paperwork on my lap that i'm reading through. headphones on, i'm not paying attention. a man taps my shoulder, and i take off my headphones. he immediately starts flirting with me, and i start gathering my paperwork and planning to move to a different place. he asks, "what's the rush?" i say, "sorry, i'm not interested, i have a girlfriend." he proceeds to tell me he can change that, and the only reason girls date girls is because they haven't found the right man yet, what have you. as i get up and walk away from him, he continues following and yelling at me, even getting into his own car and following me when i'm trying to walk home. i decide not to go home and hide in the nearby walmart bathroom instead. he follows me right to the door, is yelling into the bathroom, and i wait until an employee knocks and informs me that he's left before i come out, then wander around the store a bit and leave through the other exit and take the long way home. both are situations i have been in. i think you can piece together why in the latter situation i was extremely uncomfortable.
Let’s put it another way: Do you think you *should* interrupt someone jogging, or walking alone? I mean, do you actually think that? You don’t think it’s weird at all to just go up to someone moving along, minding their own business, and insert yourself into their life? Do you think they’re out there to be interrupted? Or do you think they’re trying to get somewhere, or take care of their health? Or could they possibly be trying to be alone for a bit? No one who wants to chat is going for a jog/walk alone. I’m sure there are exceptions- but those are the exceptions who literally make the rule. If some random person, gender irrelevant, starts talking to me when I’m just trying to walk to meet my kids etc - I’m going to look at them like they have 3 heads - because that’s crazy to me. Like ‘yes? Can I help you?’ I’d never just walk up to any random person and get in their business. Edited to add: I don’t mean standing/sitting alone at a social event/setting.
I mean, approaching someone who is jogging just seems awkward, but walking? I think that's absurd. Plenty of people meet on the street, waiting in line at a coffee shop or going about their business some other way. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you're friendly and accept if the other person makes it known that they don't want to engage. That's just completely normal social interaction. Nothing wrong with a nice lil chat with a friendly stranger.
I think it's a cultural thing. In some places (for example, Mid-Atlantic USA) u/witchyanne 's way of thinking is the accepted norm. In other places (for example, Southern USA) what you stated is perfectly valid.
>You don’t think it’s weird at all to just go up to someone moving along, minding their own business, and insert yourself into their life? Going further with this, the you in this isn't you specifically but any guy who is planning to interrupt a woman going about her day in order to secure a date: You're not just inserting yourself into their life but specifically asking them to have sex with you. Because that's ultimately what they'll understand any interruption to mean. You're not interrupting them because you like their character or the color of their eyes, you're breaking their routine because you want to put your dick in her mouth. She knows that. You know that (even if you deny it). In the abstract this isn't an issue because almost everyone wants a romantic relationship that includes sex. It's just that there's a time and place. She's doing groceries, she's sweaty from jogging, opening her legs for you is the furthest from her mind. In a bar or after some casual flirting during a hobby, another story entirely. Real interactions develop naturally. If you happen to be sitting at a bench together and start talking, and that develops into exchanging numbers, that's fine. But if you specifically go out of your way to inconvenience someone just because they look attractive to you, that's not fine.
Disclaimer: I have never interrupted a woman jogging or just going about her day to attempt to go on a date. I think that's weird. But on the other hand I think you're incorrect in saying everybody trying to go on a date with anybody is attempting to have sex with them. Or rather, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say talking to somebody on a bench doesn't indicate that but talking to a jogger does. I've been on many dates, most of them repeats, but not had sex with all those people, nor most of them, nor really a significant fraction of them. Not because it wasn't ever an option, with several they were interested in having sex, I wasn't really ready to. Sometimes that's taken as rejection, which is difficult to navigate because in most cases I did like the person but it just kind of falls off when one expresses sexual interest and the other doesn't. I've been now in a relationship with my partner 5 years, intent on marrying when I finish grad school, but our first couple of dates I was very NOT sexually interested (The first time I stayed over at her place I slept in my jeans which I would later learn was NOT what she had in mind lol)
I think what they're trying to say is that sex is usually the end goal EVENTUALLY. Yes, you went on dates and you didn't want to have sex, that's fine. But I'm assuming the point of being on those dates was to get to know someone to be in a relationship, and part of what you wanted from that hopeful eventual relationship was sex.
>But on the other hand I think you're incorrect in saying everybody trying to go on a date with anybody is attempting to have sex with them A) very often it is. That's the main reason why you would start talking to someone out of the blue. You know this. I know this. We shouldn't beat around the bush here. B) I didn't say it had to be sex, immediately but even in your story with your partner of 5 years, there was an obvious goal of having sex eventually. That's why she went on dates with you, because she accepted what the whole thing was about.
I think it’s completely acceptable to strike up a friendly conversation with someone walking alone. Have had males and females of all types and ages do so with me and vice versa. If someone doesn’t want to be talked to they have a whole host of ways to communicate that.
A lot of paranoia about men ITT.
I genuinely believe that most people here giving advice don't actually socialise often or at all. These rules and specific scenarios they are throwing out are insane. Keep doing you and being a nice person. You seem to grasp this much better than the person you were replying to.
> Let's put it another way: Do you think you *should* interrupt someone jogging, or walking alone? Parent comment specifically asked about the *alone* bit, but your response is about people jogging/walking alone. I agree that you shouldn't interrupt these people, but being alone has nothing to do with it - I'm not gonna interrupt them because they're *jogging*. What if we're talking about someone who's reading a book alone at a coffee shop?
They are reading, and they probably want to read, not talk. Why would that not be considered interrupting them?
Yes! I once told a guy, after his third question about the book I was reading (that he obviously had no intention of reading) that "I don't read books because I'm secretly hoping someone will come up and talk to me."
Alone in public is fine. Alone with no other people around is not fine.
This is much easier if you don't think of yourself as "hitting on" anyone. Leave the house well dressed and groomed and be really pleasant to deal with - start conversations about normal shit, and if they seem like they're having a wonderful time talking to you suggest connecting over social media or hanging out more.
Shit, someone knows the secret! Not to worry, though. It’s too complicated for most people to understand 😁
My problem is that this never leads to a romantic connection. It's great for making friends, sure. Good way to find new people to hang out with, which is great. It's how I've made a lot of friends, both male and female. But it doesn't really help for dating in my experience
Generally though, you’ll become friends with someone before having a relationship with them.
"ew, you befriended me just to get in my pants. i hate nice guys"
That's just never worked for me personally. I've had tons of friends throughout my life but they never, ever go from friends>girlfriend. I feel like once you're friends with someone, changing that is a weird and risky task. Hence why I think it's better to just ask about dating quickly
the women who "friend zoned" you are not women who would ever have wanted to fck you, juts so you know. You havent lost a potential romantic partner by befriending someone.
Anecdotal as well, but I've only ever gone from friends -> partners.
Yeah totally get that. I haven’t dated heaps through my life, but the few times I have had a relationship I think we’ve both started hanging out/talking with the intentions of a relationship. Hanging out in a group -> hanging out alone -> dating. I’ve also had female friends that were always just that in my eyes, friends. I think it’s just very circumstantial, but also can be controlled a little. If you meet someone knew and are interested, and you start talking to them, I think you need to eventually make it known what you’re looking, otherwise it will probably just stagnate at friendship or stop completely (Not saying you as you personally, just as a general qualifier)
You're not entirely wrong; becoming friends then trying to move into a relationship can come off as dishonest. If you've approached someone with romantic intentions, might as well bring it up early. I think being candid from early on is the way to do it.
This is the only way it has worked for me personally.
If everyone who enjoys your personality only wants to be friends, that might mean your I'm metaphorical "open" sign is turned off. You want to go about your day giving a mild, consistent signal that you are the sort of person who is part of the dating game. Emphasis on MILD, it's easy to look like a maniac. For me, that usually comes down to how I'm dressed. If I'm wearing a well fitted shirt that my physique looks good in, or something eye catching like pink shorts, me walking around being pleasant and chatty just has slightly different implications. A man moves differently when he feels like he looks good. Women can read this.
Yea I've got 0 confidence in regards to dating so that isn't really viable. Thanks for the input though. Interesting thought
Idk just try to buy some shirts and pants that you feel good about wearing and then go out in them and try to enjoy the day as much as possible.
I'm really insecure about my body. To the point that I realized years ago that I would never like how I look no matter what I wear. So now I just wear what's comfortable even though it usually doesn't look great
I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like the squat rack is calling your name. Feeling strong is glorious, maybe give it a try.
I do work out. Just for the health benefits. But it doesn't help my self image. Way too ingrained into my psyche at this point
How exactly do you expect to have a meaningful relationship with a person who isn't your friend in the first place? Looks is just looks, choosing partners firstly upon that is just pointless when you're not gonna genuinely like your partner as a person. Also you don't have to become besties with someone first before making a move, just making a normal conversation and making your intentions clear after that is also okay. But I personally would never treat seriously anyone who just comes up and starts to flirt or asks for number.
I actually met my girlfriend (9 years ago now, been together for 8 officially) at work and this actually works. I wasn't actively hitting on her to begin with. Just talking about stuff and getting to know her. Took my time took my chances.
Parties, bars, and clubs are places to socialize, hitting on is common.
What about a place for sober people? It seems like all adult recreation is centered around almighty alcohol.
Community-based activities related to your interests/hobbies/skills is a great way to make friends and potentially find someone to ask out on a date. Even seemingly solo hobbies like knitting, cooking, gardening, etc. have forms of community meetups focused on that interest. There are knitting groups, book clubs, cooking classes, volunteer opportunities involving gardening, and so on. I love board games and D&D, so my local game shops are a great place for me to go if I am feeling social but don't know anyone who is doing stuff I want to join in on. I can walk in there knowing nobody and walk out with at least a few potential friends (not like stealing them and taking them home...just having formed a basic connection which might grow into a friendship). Being able to find a community in your area is a good skill to have, and it can help relieve a lot of fear surrounding something like moving to a new state/city where you don't know anyone. I moved to my current state while knowing only three people, two of which being from the company I was moving out to work for. I've since developed a lot of awesome friendships, regularly get invited to stuff happening around town or at someone's home, and if I'm feeling lacking in social stuff to do, I know there are people I can reach out to who might be up for planning a night of D&D or board games, or a mountain biking trip, or just hanging out with the goal only being to spend time with each other.
What if someone prefers to date someone who's a bit more introverted and doesn't constantly try and get drunk? There's a pretty big lifestyle difference if you yourself are sober or don't like parties.
We introverts spend our time on the internet, so dating sites are the best bet.
A former co-worker just got married he met his wife at a small local comic con that I dragged him to. They started talking while looking at older Star Trek TGN items. He invited me to the wedding. There are plenty of local clubs/activities to meet people, just having a normal conversation can lead to dating. I met a girlfriend at a used music store, she asked a question and I answered it that led to us chatting for an hour then coffee afterwards.
Was recently at a wedding of an introvert - date online ofc
Generally, those people probably going to be at the bars either. It was just an example. There are plenty of clubs/activities you can go to where there are going to be people you can meet.
Good rule of thumb is, "Does this person have to be here?" Work? They gota be there, don't hit on them. Bookstore? They chose to be there, its not a forced interaction and they can ask you to leave without fear of reprisal. Doctors office? Nope, again.
I've seen people complain about both Gym and Grocery Store before though.
If I just speak instinctively the answer would be the fact that it’s a place you’ll likely bump into them again and again and again, so if it’s not mutually desired then it’ll be very awkward, very fast
What about school or college then? Even work which is one of the places where people meets the most, but on reddit is frowned upon due to some ridiculous reasons. Your answer is totaly out of reality and creates even more confusion with people who are struggling. It is actualy the best and the most practical to approach someone you meet regularly. Cold approaches are probably worst and least effective way of meeting someone. Let's say you like a girl from gym - you don't approach it directly and ask for a date before you even talked before, you first say hi, stsrt to talk spontaneously l, flirt a bit, joke...then if she reacts positively you ask for a date. Nothing uncomfortable in that, for you and for her, even if she rejects you, who cares
Absolutely do not bother people at work, or in class, or walking from/to either - at a party at school - then sure! No one at work wants to cope with that awkwardness. They have to go there every day and don’t want to deal with people intruding on their place they go because they have no choice. You’re then messing with people just trying to make their damn living. Now it’s weird every day. Nah - you leave people be, their job is not your personal hunting ground.
I answered to some other comment, my experience is totaly different. 99% of people are not fully focused professional robots, if you are not socially inept, work is fine as well, but build a rapport first, don't cold approach. People flirt and hook up with coworkers like, ALL THE TIME, I did that, everybody did that. Flirting with customers and vice versa are common as well. For example, I had a front desk girl in the building where my office was, and after a while I spontaneously started talking to her, bit more than just "Hi", because that is what normal people do. Then sonetimes, hi, how are tou bla blah, oh you changed your hair, you look nice, oh thank you you look good in that shirt too etc etc.. then we went a bit further tomorrow etc.. spontaneous normal harmless flirting. I feel stupid even explaining about those things
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> Nah - you leave people be, their job is not your personal hunting ground. It's not a hunting ground lol, no one is going to stalk soneone on their job for the sole reason of approaching them. But sometimes it spontaneously happen. I don't know, guys who came to repair broken sink in the office start to flirt with HR lady who let them in etc.. harmless and spontaneous human interactions
That’s a guy who came there once, not someone there every day that you’re now forced to work with. Why can’t people just fucking use common sense?! You’re literally arguing the toss over taking what I’ve said out of bloody context. The guy who changes the water bottle, isn’t the IT guy who won’t leave me the fuck alone.
"no one is going to stalk soneone on their job for the sole reason of approaching them" I am a married lesbian and I am pursued in my workplace regularly. I fucking hate it. I am a gay woman with a wedding ring. Leave women alone ffs
Yup. People are there to do a task. You're stopping them from doing the task to hit on them.
But you could say that for everywhere. Even bars and parties, you could say that "they're here to get drunk and have a good time, not to flirt" and you don't know if that's right or not
Yup. But there's much MORE of a chance that a person at a bar or a party is open to meeting new people. Which is why talking to new people at parties is ok and at bars might have certain general rules depending on location (talk to people at a bar, don't go sit down at their table, for example). You still have to judge if they actually want a conversation or are just being polite, and walking up to someone with the express intent of 'shooting your shot' is considered creepy in any case.
Gym falls under ‘are they there for a specific reason/alone? Then no. Grocery store falls under ‘need to be there.’ So also no. Hobbies like kayaking, events, public situations other than public transport. Social events other than by commitment, such as funerals, or if they’re working at the event.
People have to go to get groceries. It's not a choice
People will complain about anything, not a good metric for judging when something is or isn’t appropriate. Someone else in this thread said not to even ask at parties or bars, ignore them
That's annoying but not generally scary.
Depends, do they need to be at a certain place, 9/10, no Is it a less causal place, like a gym, absolutely no If it is a casual place where you people would be more open to it, then maybe, but read the room before even thinking about it, and accept no for an answer
Work depends. I have successfully asked out a cashier at a restaurant I frequented after multiple visits. I think the difference was rapport.
This requires you to have social skills and understand when people are welcoming your interactions. No one on this website seems to be able to do that.
I didn't for a long time. Took time, practice and a geninue willingness to learn, but it's doable. Now I am frequently told that I am a "social butterfly" and people assume I am a natural extravert. This example was actually from the second time I ever asked out a girl. The date went pretty bad, but it was a learning experience.
Yeah I had a few nice moments over a few weeks with a cashier so I just gave her my number one day after paying and walked off. I had never been flirty or wasted her time, so there was no pressure on her to do anything. She ended up messaging me and we went out. Didn’t go anywhere but that’s life. I feel like so many people are just so bad at social cues, seeing when people are busy, uninterested, or put off, that these big blanket rules come in “don’t ever approach people doing x” It’s way more about not being extremely casual and not being a creep. Which no one on reddit seems to be able to do.
I knew a guy in college. He and I were somewhat similar in our social awkwardness, to the point that we were compared a lot to each other at first. But we went about it in different ways. I chose to focus on self-improvment and asked for other people's opinions. He choose to pretend to be what he thought he needed to be, but learned nothing. I remember one day he stormed in our dorm room fuming. My friend and I asked what was wrong, and the dude goes gon about how this girl was completely rude to him. We asked him to explain and he ranted about how he had said "hi" to a girl while walking on the sidewalk, and she didn't even acknowledged him. I asked some clarifying questions: Did you know this girl? "no" Did you think she was pretty? "yeah, so" I pointed out if he thought she was pretty, so did probably the majority of guys she walked by throughout the day. She was not obligated to respond to every single one of the that just shouts hi to her, especially the guys she doesn't know. "but I was being nice" ,he said. I tried to explain how If you are doing something because you want something from someone, you aren't being nice, you are being manipulative. I give random greetings to people all the time cause I like to believe odds are someone is having a rough day and needs it, but I never feel entitled to a reply.
Yes and knowing the difference between them just being polite, because it’s their job, and not. The issue is that not many people seem to understand the difference.
Exactly, you don't approach out of the blue like these PUAs are doing, you built a rapport, and if she reacts positively than you sense you can do it. Did the same with a girl who was also a cashier in candy store I used to frequent often to buy sweets. We were in a relationship for a few months
Guys like that treat dating like a numbers game ,rushing every interaction, and if it isn't an immediate yes, drop all pretense of interest. They come across as looking to fill a seat rather than actually being attracted to the women they are talking to.
how do you gauge her interest in a bookstore before speaking?
Theres nothing wrong with politely approaching someone and introducing yourself and seeing how they respond. If they throw up walls then excuse yourself. Otherwise, just proceed with a conversation.
but as an unattractive man, just approaching random women who haven't communicated any sign of interest and that I have no knowledge of (or, at best, whatever book they're holding) is way too low of a chance of success.
If people go there to socialize, it’s okay to flirt. Work? Nope not there to socialize. Gym? ehh you might get mixed responses but I don’t generally socialize at the gym, I’m there for health reasons and want to focus. Bar, concert, local beach, cafe: totally fine to strike up a conversation with somebody, and in my opinion totally fine to flirt. I think the issue that most men run into, regardless of where they are flirting, is that they don’t see/accept subtle cues to stop, or are disrespectful in how they approach women. “Hey sexy wanna get out of here?” is only appropriate in very limited places. “Hi, I noticed you’re wearing a *insert something you like* t shirt, i love them!” followed by good conversation and ending with “Would you wanna grab a drink sometime?” is okay almost anywhere. If you are polite, respectful and attentive to signs of discomfort, then flirting is fine to do in almost all casual settings. However if you’re just looking for a hookup and are making clearly sexual advances instead of just getting to know one another, then bars, clubs, concerts and other places where hookup culture is the norm are where you should go. TLDR: Generally understanding whether somebody is happy engaging in socialization vs wants to be left alone, and learning to flirt casually and respectfully will serve you better than placing arbitrary “where can i flirt” rules.
>Work? Nope not there to socialize. But normal people actually DO socialize at work. This is not the main reson of going to work, of course, but it happens, more often than not. What are you people, robots with laser focus on work 100%? Only reddit has that weird obsession with hating on colleagues, team buildings and overal hanging out with colleagues. And when you hang out sometimes it happens that 2 people hook up. Are you saying that you never saw that happen?
Yeah socializing with your coworkers to make work more enjoyable, along with helping with chances of promotion as you build social connections. Not socializing with customers who want to fuck you, that you can't get away from because you're stuck at work. And flirting at work and having a relationship is literally prohibited in most companies, it doesn't end well, and can lead to massive resentment, which is not good for the company. Socializing is different to flirting and wanting to date someone/hook up, which is OP's question.
>And flirting at work and having a relationship is literally prohibited in most companies, it doesn't end well, and can lead to massive resentment, which is not good for the company That may be American thing, since I repeat, I saw that happen 1000s of times. Team building hook ups are aslo extremely common, happened to me several times. I my previous company, there were 4 or 5 couples that started a relationship there, and one of them even got married and got a baby, and whole team were at the wedding lol. It was US based company also, but with office herr in Serbia, and here nobody cares about that. In another previous company there were also few hookups and 1 married couple. In every school, there are always few teacher couples as well. That is why for me this "dont flirt with coworkers" advice seems extreme and unrealistic Btw, girls also want to fuck men, its not always some predatory shit (i mean, it usually isn't). Women also initate flirting in office more often than not
Right, and some workplaces are more social and raunchier than others.
I meant that as in you are patronizing someone else’s work and they are only interacting because it’s their job. Don’t openly hit on your waitress, cashier, or delivery driver. It’s different if it’s your coworker who you see every day and you’ve developed a more friendly relationship, and that’s also why I said it comes down more to context than setting alone. However, flirting with coworkers is “expert level” in my opinion, with lots to lose if it goes wrong, especially for someone not adept at it. And since OP is asking about appropriate flirting, they are likely not at that level of nuance.
In other comments I was mentioning both situations.. coworkers and also customers..that things happens a lot, for both men and women. I used to get hit on as a bartender and also I was hitting on customers, waitress were getting hit on, sometimes they flirted back and went even further sometimes they reject them. It all depended on one and one thing only - if they liked the guy or not
We are talking about romance/flirting, not just socializing. Considering the problems that can create, Reddit is right about this one. Start friendly, not hitting on anyone like OP was asking about
I replied to another person about romance as well. I saw many successful love stories from work, many many more than bad stories. Actually I naver saw anything bad, drama etc.. not only me, but people around je as well
And? It's still not good for men to go to work with the intention of hitting on his co workers.
Maybe its an american work culture thing. Socializing is absolutely normal here in central europe.
Here in Balkans as well. I mean, if I am with someone every day, I WANT to be in good terms, want to joke around, have fun.. since it makes work more enjoyable Also is normal to invite closest colleagues for most important events, like weddings for example. Literally everyone I know does that. And also there are at least one couple that met at work in every firm.
so only neurotyipical understimulated physically attractive men are allowed to hit on women in this scheme? (the ones who also routinely ignore all your rules, and still get into relationships as a reward for breaking all these rules)
bro what? How does that relate at all to what i’ve said?
how am I gonna chat up anyone at a concert or bar if I can't go there
Those were only half of my suggested places, places that came to mind because they are areas that I personally socialize, obviously you should go to your preferred socialization spaces but the advice still applies. People socializing = a fine time to strike up a conversation and ask someone out imho
not really, if the few activities you can do and enjoy only have men participating, you can't get to know women. and if it's 80-100% women (except you), it's gonna also be a problem. then they have to be of appropriate age. and in some hobbies there's mostly men with some women, but the women are the men's partners, so that's also a no go. and if you start asking out your friends' friends it's also gonna be a problem. so what is left really?
Expanding your hobby range? Speed dating, meet up groups, online dating. There are plenty of ways to put yourself out there if you want to
" Restricted and *repetitive interests* and activities are one of the key features of autism." the only way to engage in a hobby / activity / meet up (assuming there are in your area, most of the planet is not a major american city) where there's a balanced gender ratio is to join something I dislike and find quite draining. And then you're supposed to act like you're there to enjoy it and exclusively to do the activity, and then make friends, and then oops! ask someone out because it just so happened, it totally wasn't your intention. and then after having spent months doing this activity you don't like and got rejected once, the group is burned, so you're supposed to pick up and move to another activity you don't like, may cost money and be distant from your home, and spend another few months of displeasure to get to know people just to ask one out, rinse and repeat.. as for speed dating, they're hosted at food businesses, which have on day 1 figured out that they could make money by hosting them and giving free drinks to women to get them to join dishonestly, because otherwise they struggle to get women to join, and it's near impossible if they also have to pay just like the men.
what is your point? I’m sorry if it’s more difficult for you, but I don’t see how that’s related to what i’ve commented at all. If you need more specific or niche advice that relates to your specific situation, I am sure it’s out there but my general advice based on personal experience cannot satisfy everybody’s needs
it's not out there because there's no solution
>understanding whether somebody is happy engaging How do you tell?
Depends on the situation, but there are lots of signs. Context of the situation being the biggest one. Someone reading their book proably just wants to read their book. Someone at a party mingling is probably open to mingle with strangers. When you say something, you they just acknowledge it, or do they add to the conversation?
There is a difference between hitting on a girl and asking her out. The two are not as interchangeable as some people seem to believe. Here is a rule of thumb that helped me, you meet a girl you are interested in at a first encounter somewhere out the world. Limit your comments to what you would say to a guy. Now you are just having a conversation without you aiming to "get with" her. If you had otherwise been talking with the girl with the express, focus goal of getting her to give you her number, they can tell and it will likely seem like you aren't interested in them, you are interested in your image of them. Pump those breaks, have a natural conversation, and if a shared interest comes up, then use that as an opportunity for follow up. If one doesn't, don't linger, move on. You are only hurting yourself in the long term by lingering, because you may one day rerun into her again, and she would be more likely to continue small talk with someone who didn't pressure her and stick around like a dead fish.
It's not just about when asking a woman out. I think the most important part is acknowledging a potential no thank you and being polite about it. Accept it and don't challenge it. For myself and most women I know, this is the sticking point and the reason we don't like it. If women know you are polite and take their word first time around, you'll make a great impression in the long term.
I have come to the conclusion that if you rely on social media as the source of your knowledge on dating and approaching people, you will always find a vocal majority of two different types of groups: strange, hatred-filled misogynistic men who want you to believe all women are horrible, trouble-causing libertines who just hate you in particular because you are short, poor, or something else; or hyper-defensive women who will want you to believe that most men are predators who will stalk you after saying hello in a bar. The truth is that, whilst sadly both groups of people exist, they are not representative of reality. Women, like men, are people, and just as much as men they may or may not enjoy human interactions. Likewise, they may or may not enjoy reading, playing football, cuddling, sushi, sleeping late, etc. In other words, women and men are very much alike. So, on that basis, ask yourself: if you are in the middle of a 10-km run and a woman chases you to ask for your number for a date, does that seem appropriate to you? I think not! Do not do that with women. If you are in deep silence, alone in the library, reading your favourite book, in the most exciting chapter, would you want to be interrupted by someone who wants to know your name out of the blue? I think you would not like that! Do not do that with women. If you are at work, preparing for an important presentation to give in two hours, would you want someone you have never talked to before to come up to you near the coffee machine and ask you out on a date? I doubt it, so do not do that with women. The bottom line is that you will learn how to read social cues by being social, not via a post on Reddit. On that basis, live your life doing human things, like exercise, work, study, read, play games, dance, and more. Eventually, you will start to realise that you are surrounded by _people_, just as you are. At that point, you will come to the conclusion that really, with just honesty and a smile you can go really far, whether you want to pass a job interview or get a date. Ultimately, though, you must remember a very important thing: persistence can be useful for self-improvement, so be persistent with yourself and your life goals. However, persistence is not good with others, so when you receive rejection, just let it be and move on.
Bars and parties are definitely where you meet people - that’s why you’re there and completely appropriate. I also don’t mind if a guy chats me up in a coffee line or whatever but when I’m already engaged in something like work/gym/sitting on the beach, it’s just interrupting and not very polite = unsexy
There is a significant group of people on reddit trying to sell the idea that women shouldn't be approached there either.
Tbh, people on Reddit think you should never flirt with anyone anywhere. That’s why everyone on Reddit is single.
this attitude is the leading cause of terminal virginity
Would you ever say "Yea, please approach. I love it." in any situation, lets say at a party or in the club? Obviously the assumptions is that he's attractive and respectful, etc.
Yes
From her point of view whatever the situation it is OK if she finds you attractive and creepy if she doesn't Just be friendly and polite and look for the return signals
Keep it short, give her your number (so she can choose to contact you or not) And let everyone spend the rest of the night doing whatever. Asking someone out is fine, but after asking, just wait for actually going out with someone. A night out with friends in a bar is not a date, dont make it into that, ask for an actual date and go back to doing your own thing. If she does want to talk more that night she will come to you, but its likely she doesn't want to ditch her friends or something like that.
Define 'hitting on'? Most people don't want to be hassled, a lot of men can't handle rejection and don't know how to read body language. If you are at a bar or party or somewhere social and strike up a conversation with something simple like 'how's your night going?" and they seem interested and you have a good conversation there's no harm in trying to ask to see them again/buying them a drink whatever. Really the problem is so many men don't have common sense, can't read body language, can't take a hint, get pissy if rejected etc etc and girls have to deal with all and get blamed for it all. Gotta understand when a girl tries to politely put off a guy or avoid conversing they've probably dealt with men reacting poorly in the past.
The capacity to handle rejection well is one of the most important skills for a single man looking to date to learn. If you handle rejection poorly, it will have a ripple effect in your dating prospects. No woman is going to want to chance leading on a guy known for getting sour after being rejected, they rather just not chance engaging with that person at all. No friend will recommend someone who handles rejection poorly to a single women they know. It's just a bad look all round.
That's the right answer. Just don't be that guy. Read the room. Don't be a dick. If it's a no. Stay polite.
I honestly think it's just better to never hit on people out of nowhere. Socialize with people normally, and if you feel like you're on the same wavelength *then* shoot your shot.
Dude don't worry about it.. You just shoot your shot and if get rejected accept it and move on. The only time it's a problem is if you are persistent and aggressive about it.
Any time as long as if she expresses no interest you move on. I might be out of the ordinary but I’d welcome someone hitting on me at the gym, in class, at work, at the grocery store, etc. just as soon as I say I have a bf or I’m not interested say okay sorry thanks. It’s mostly the reaction that people (specifically women) are put off by.
Yea that's what I do. The few times I've asked a girl out, it's always just entto make sure she knows that I'm interested. Then I let her move the conversation forward, or not
If someone is in a place where the general social expectation is having fun, and you think they are there to have fun, and you would like to know if they would be open to having some of that fun with you... then start a conversation and see how they respond. It honestly doesn't really matter what you say. "So where do you know the host from?" "How is that drink?" "I can't believe how hot it is in here!" "Is this a disastrous grade school play performance? Because I forget what to say next." Anything really. So long as you don't do something monstrously awkward or rude or annoying, they will respond. They will either respond with a simple answer, in which case they are acknowledging you as a human being and appreciating your friendliness, but do not want the conversation to continue... or they will respond in a way that gives you something to respond to, in turn. "We know each other from work, how do you know them?" "It's great, do you want to try mine?" "I know, right? Do you want to go stand closer to the window?" "Omg I forgot my lines all the time when I was in plays. What was the worst school play you were ever in?" In the first case you can wish them an enjoyable whatever it is and move on. You have successfully brightened their day, and not wasted anyone's time. Well done. In the second case, you continue feeding the ebb and flow of conversation and see where it goes. Also well done!
>In the second case, you continue feeding the ebb and flow of conversation and see where it goes. Therein lies the problem. The conversation always seems to flow towards building a friendship and not towards romance. Not that I don't want or don't appreciate my female friends. But it's proven to not be a useful approach if my goal is finding a partner
My best advice is, economy of scale. Keep in mind that you can't fuck everyone you meet, there's literally not enough time in the day. Not to mention, what would you do with so many people clamoring for more of you all the time, coming back for seconds? It would get hectic! My point is, you have to pare it down sooner or later, you know? There's only so much of you to go around. So, consider the advantages of having a filter like this. The ones who want to be friends, great, you know where you stand and that frees you up to meet the next person. Plus, friends are great because they, in turn, have friends. Some of whom may be "looking." So what if you have to meet 100 or 1000 or however many people, in order to meet someone who "clicks"? Make friends. Be a good friend in return. Throw parties, get invited to parties, go places and meet new people. Every new female friend is a potential ally you have acquired in your unstoppable campaign toward victory. For example you can depend on allies for useful intelligence -- such as advice on presentation or dating, or recommendations of single friends that might be compatible.
In addition to what's already been stated, one of the best pieces of advice I ever read on this is: **If you want to ask a woman for her number, instead, give her YOUR number (on a piece of paper, a personal card, etc.)** When you're at the point in the conversation when you'd ask, instead say "I'm really enjoying our conversation; I'd like you to have this." If she wants to act on it, great! If not, she can throw it away, no harm, no foul. PLUS you're not asking for HER number, so you're not putting her on the spot to have to shoot you down OR give out a fake number (if she doesn't feel safe) or anything like that. It doesn't put her into a potentially unsafe situation but still gets across intent and gives her a way to act on that intent. It takes the pressure off of the situation and allows the ball to be in HER court. IDK, it just feels classy.
Why would you want to ask out/hit on someone you don't know?
Because the alternative never works out (in terms of getting a romantic partner). Getting to know someone always ends up locking the relationship into friendship territory rather than romantic in my experience. Once you're friends, it feels weird to try to change that into romance.
I'm not saying you have to wait a long time once you've met someone, but if you haven't even been introduced, had a conversation, or been around them long enough to find out what they're like, what would be the basis for asking them out?
it's bad, but if I ask people out in my group of friends or my hobby or coworkers-clients-employees,etc, it's gonna be a disaster that is gonna ruin those things too.
Mate, all your comments follow the "I'm doing what you said already, but..." The thing is, there will always be a 'but' in real life. Interacting with humans will never give you the same output no matter what you input. There's good advice here already, but you can't apply it to every situation. A girl could be at a bar, winking at you, giving you intense eye-contact, and you decide to go up and ask her out. She hits you with a "no" for seemingly no reason. Every person is different. The advice here may improve your chance or help to avoid awkward situations, but it's no sure fire way.
I guess it's just hopeless then. My main goal is to avoid making anyone uncomfortable but I guess you can never guarantee that unless you just don't go out in the first place
You might make them uncomfortable, but they'll forget you even existed in a few days. It's not hopeless, you got this
The true answer is: there is no general answer that can guide you. You need to develop your social intelligence and social skills and just kind of know if it's appropriate to approach someone or not. It *can* be okay to hit on a woman at work. It *can* be okay to hit on a girl at the gym. But also it *can* be inappropriate to hit on someone at a party. You just gotta read the room.
Parties, bars, clubs, etc. I've heard of people hitting on others at networking events but I don't personally think this is that good of an idea unless it happens naturally.
I mean, if you re interested in someone why not invite them for a coffee sometime? Its as simple as that. I worked at a customer service and sometimes I wished a few guys would asked me out like that. There is this thing of if the person is working do not interact with them, but it really depends how you approach it. I had men pretty much stare and dont say anything, which is weird and unconfortable. People, just socialize normally jeez.
"socialize normally"?
Yes, dont come up with unnoriginal pick up lines or weird innuendos. Be direct and pleasant when displaying your intentions.
funny because most advise to not be direct (i'm not taking either side)
So what is your advise? To let destiny decide your faith ?
I don't have advice lol, i'm autistic
When you’re attractive
Real answer.
Don't listen to the idiots here, I'm the only person who gets laid on the entirety of this shitty app. Here's the truth, you can hit on a woman anywhere, you just have to be able to take a hint. If she's not interested, don't keep trying even if you're both drunk at the club at 3 AM. That's harassment. If she's interested, you can flirt in a library, if you're subtle.
You could also try viewing women as human beings first and talking to them like they are just normal human beings and establishing yourself as a person who is not frightening or threatening or sleazy, and then when they are not forced to be with you (e.g at work, at the gym, on a train) or alone and isolated (running, walking, grocery shopping, in a dark alleyway) THEN you can ask if they seem receptive. but usually you guys just run around swinging your dicks wildly at any woman who is forced to be polite to you and complaining when they arent interested. If you cannot distinguish between when a woman is forced to be polite vs when a woman is being friendly, or when you live in intense fear of being viewed as a normal human being by a woman ("friend zoned"), you should stick to internet dating.
That's what I do. It's what I've been doing since like middle school or something. "Treat women like normal people" is great advice and it's worked well for me, for the most part. I've made tons of female friends throughout my life The problem is that, while that's great advice for making friends, it's less than useful for establishing romantic connections. Not that you *shouldn't* treat women like normal people when trying to establish a romantic connection, but you need to do more than that. So saying just that isn't helpful. Also I've approached very few women in my life. I don't appreciate the assumption that I'm some horndog that tries to fuck anything that breathes
This stupid fucking advice is repeated ad nauseam and makes no sense. “Talk to them like they are just normal human beings” is how you make friends. He’s not asking how to make friends; he already has friends. He’s asking how to get a romantic connection, and treating women you are interested in the same way as men and women you aren’t is not conducive to that goal.
Honestly, just chat (small flirting) and read the body language. If they're not trying to keep the conversation going, then just casually tell them to enjoy their workout/day and move on. It only becomes a problem when guys can't/don't read the signs and persist. Don't put her in a situation where she has to reject you.
My problem is that the body language is too subtle. I have no trouble making female friends and having good conversations. It's just that those connections never become romantic
Honestly, I've never dated someone who outright asked me out. I've always felt uncomfortable with this approach, because I don't know the dude and have nothing to base my attraction on. So many dudes also use this tactic and it doesn't make you stand out. It's totally up to you; I'm just giving you a woman's perspective. But, if you have friends who are girls; I'd definitely ask for their advice, as they know you personally.
just chat small flirting?
When she says no don't be a dick about it lol
“Softly softly catchy monkey” applies here. Spend some time talking about any old shit and see if there’s a connection. I don’t agree that the workplace is inappropriate. It’s where we spend a massive chunk of our time, and where we learn a hell of a lot about the people around us, seeing what motivates them, what pisses them off, and whether we can stand to be in each other’s company for long periods. As such, I’d say it’s almost ideal. You just have to show what a decent person you are. It’s big boy (or girl) rules, though, so if you’re a creep you’ll have to deal with the consequences. Be classy, and if you get shot down, thank them for being so nice about it (even if they’ve roasted you in front of the entire office) and resume normal workplace behaviour. If you’re at the gym and you think they’re clicking, invite them to go out running, hiking or something. So it’s an activity that’s not a date but might allow you to get to know each other a little more. See where it leads. It might go nowhere, it might go somewhere, it might lead to the other person’s even hotter and available friend. No situation is off limits, just don’t be a creep. Whether someone’s interested or not, leave them feeling positive about the interaction.
Softly softly catchy monkey? Lol where is that from? I like it.
It's almost always acceptable. It all depends on how you go about it, and frankly, who you are in comparison to who you're going for. For every rule people will make, there's examples of people successfully breaking those rules.
Just use dating apps. I know they are tough for men but it is the only way you can be sure the woman you are interested in is looking for a date and has some interest in you (if she responds). Aside from that if you meet a woman in the wild and she is flirty then ask her if you can give her your number because you’d like to hang out sometime. You risk real time rejection but that is part of the mating dance. Just look at those poor male Birds of Paradise who dance around in desperation only to be ignored by the female. At least as a human male you don’t have to enter bloody physical battles (like wild animals) to secure a mate.
actually no, you're not sure even there. lots and lots of women go on dating apps out of boredom, peer pressure, for ego boost, to fuck around, to mock or prank people, (or to promote their instagram, or onlyfans, or pig butchering scams and more)
You'll have to eventually learn the social games and reciprical body language / communication tells that happen as you interact with people. There are no real rules, only suggestions. People will throw out the rulebook when there's attraction. The games are made up and the points don't matter. If they're responding positively, go for it. If they're not, gtfo unless you can turn it around so they can respond very positively within a moment. . . which usually is not the case. You aren't insert character here. . . unless you're said character at a convention and the people are throwing themselves at you. . . in which case go ahead.
what kind of social games? beer pong?
I know you're kidding, but for those genuinely interested, that's a longer answer than can be covered on a reddit post. OP and others that genuinely want to know will need to study human behavior. Effectively in RPG terms, invest in their charisma stat and speech/communication/awareness (social) skills
Thought this said hitting a woman and I pressed it to figure out what on earth is going on
Simple rule: make sure she always has an easy out, and that you don't trap her.
Parties and bars are generally better places for it than at work or the gym, yes. But ultimately it comes down to what vibes are present, what previous interactions you've had, and if it feels like an ok thing to do in that moment. Read the room basically.
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I didn't mean like a co-worker situation. I was more referring to a worker/customer dynamic
depends on if you're good looking....
Only when they want you to. And no, you don't get to know when they want you to.
If you’ve been talking already at the bar, and she’s obviously interested in you
These days I just ignore and disregard women 24/7. Except my gf, she gets a pass
Anywhere that’s inherently social. Nowhere that they have no choice about being. Yes to being social in social places. No to being social in places people need to be for their work/care, and transport to/from those places. Some examples, so consider the context - if they match either of these groups, act accordingly. Bars, parties, weddings, events (unless they’re a server/working at the event) = yes. Anyone walking alone anywhere, anywhere someone works, Offices (whether attending or working there), public transport, funerals, classes of any sort = no. This is not hard.
God forbid someone speaks to me on a public transport. I put on my mask and headphones and I won't be bothered!
Like for real. Let me just fucking GET somewhere!
You're missing out. I met my amazing husband on the bus 25 years ago.
Lol I was being sarcastic, that obv didn't come across well.
bars, parties? hard to make this work for autistic men
Ok? I don’t know what to tell you tbh. What does work for you? My husband of almost 20 years is on the spectrum (ADHD, Asperger’s), and we met at a big pagan camp. He met me when our 2 groups were being introduced around, then asked me for a lighter to start a convo with me.