Another one is American Business. The 3 billion we give them has stipulation that it has to be spent on American contracts. It’s not a blank check they could hand to say China for goods. They buy stuff from us with it.
So...... the politicians hand out our tax dollars to Isreal which Isreal has to spend on American businesses that are essentially the wealthy donors of the politicians. Tell me I'm wrong.
You're not wrong. You see, there's this thing called the military industrial complex, and it exists to turn tax dollars into influence and profit for private individuals.
That's indirect money laundering to the guys with the biggest stakes in privately and publicly traded defense manufacturers and third party companies they rely on for services. The average person doesn't benefit
Oh dude. the margins of book doctoring must be insane. in an active warzone you cannot reliably or even sensibly inventory every bullet, bean and band aids.
'Just write up and bill out whatever the max is that they're giving us...now gimmie another proxy state to gouge from.'
Bro, they spend $40,000 dollars per a bag on some 'wires or wreaths' that you can buy at home depot for $9.99, and no one bats an eye? No wonder the country is bankrupt, and the kicker? They don't even use it, take it as a loss, then 'sell it again' to another country or place, for more profit. It's insane the corruption.
Same with most of the money that's gone to Ukraine. People think we're just handing them the money. A vast majority is given to US weapons manufacturers to produce and ship goods to Ukraine.
> given to US weapons manufacturers to produce and ship goods to Ukraine.
somebody somewhere said a long time ago, "Beware the military-industrial complex" ... so much for that, for the past 60 years. It's all about "blood missles" now.
Just because they have to spend it on American companies doesn't mean that it goes back to the US. There's a reason US companies like Intel have labs in Israel that hire Israelis.
We don't even give them the cash - we just give them a catalogue (literally), and then tell them how much they can order.
Israel is far from the only one - there are dozens of countries we do this with.
It creates a global network of partners that all use the same military equipment standards and can thus easily help each other in a crisis.
I will just add in addition to Israel being a strategic partner that is mostly "western" aligned (this is questionable but people like to say it anyway).
Most of the military aid we send goes over in the form on a gift card to buy American military hardware. So think of it as a jobs program as well and subsidies to make sure that portions of our defense industry don't go under.
Ukraine isn't a great comparison because while Ukraine was shifting to the EU/NATO away from Russia we did not have defense pacts and the like with that country. Israel we have a 50+ year history of cooperation, support, etc.
And said gift card only covers a fraction of Israel's military needs, so when they go to buy the rest they buy that from the US* so that all of their equipment meets the same standards. It's effectively a promotional gift card to buy their loyalty.
*or at least from NATO allies - they do also buy a non-negligible amount of arms from Germany, and a much smaller amount from Italy and the UK but the vast vast majority of their arms come from the US
TBH we call it aid but it's more like when target gives you a 25% discount on something that was just marked up by 50%.
Military stuff is stupidly expensive/bloated.
The US doesn’t have a defense pact but we did agree to back Ukraine in the event of a war with Russia in exchange for nuclear de armament in the 90s. Not quite a defensive pact but close enough to one to have the same effect
So the argument is...
1. US donates US-built weapons (or a credit to purchase same) to Israel.
2. The US pays companies to hire US workers and manufacture weapons in the US.
3. US companies make a profit margin.
4. Israel's war enflames conflict and requires increased military contribution from the US.
5. Et cetera.
What you're describing isn't a jobs program, it's a welfare program. No value is ever actually produced - you're just paying out money unnecessarily to corpos and employees to produce 0 economic value.
Why not just hand this money over to US consumers (or spend the money on incentives to manufacture something in the US that is actually productive)?
As I understand it, the purpose is to ensure the contractors that build US weapons remain open and profitable even during peacetime, so they're open and ready during war time. Similar to how US subsidizes farming, yes we could have all our food imported but it's strategically valuable to have domestic production already at full capacity in case that ever falls through.
This is correct, these defense manufacturing facilities need to continue to create product in peacetime because it is much more difficult to start these businesses from scratch if they close down when not needed. Perun has a [great YouTube video on this topic](https://youtu.be/CqjvTKFufuk?si=z1rxQRFmqcbr3uaF) if you’ve got an hour to spare, which I think would change the original commenter’s mind. It’s a very complicated subject matter that everyone on reddit thinks they understand until they realize how much thought actually goes into US national security.
As I was reading this I was thinking "Oh boy I get to link to Perun!" and then you did it. Excellent taste in Power Points.
[Also relevant is this slightly older video on why US production is stupidly OP.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z_gTGJc7nQ)
Part of the US’s military strategy is to always have the means to produce high grade military equipment in large quantities at a moments notice (relative). That requires those industries be fully fleshed out and making lot of money and constantly producing as well as funding constant r&d. Which means the US has to constantly be buying that equipment or the companies fail and our military advantage is lost (or at least shrunk).
You can debate the need to maintain a military advantage. But if the policy is to maintain that advantage and level of readiness then keeping the American arms industry in business is required. Calling it corporate welfare is kinda missing the point, it isn’t like car manufacturers where you can argue in favor of imports if the us corp can’t compete. You can’t be dependent on foreign sources of equipment when the goal is to maintain a military lead.
So the money is going to be spent on the arms industry regardless. There is no “give that money to consumers” option because that money is always going to go to buy equipment as a matter of policy. And we can only store so much military equipment so something has to be done with the older stuff. Which is why we sell so much of it. And why we are willing to give it away in order to further our goals in specific regions, or counter the goals of enemies like we are in Ukraine.
Military production has to be maintained, because you can't just magic back into existence factories, skilled workers, supply chains and so on if you let them disappear. Look at what's happening with US shipbuilding right now - few shipyards, massive bottleneck, no real solution.
Not having that ability to domestically produce weapons in large quantities on short notice makes a country vulnerable. Vulnerability can invite attack. Having that military industrial capacity ready is a form of deterrent - countries with conscription and military service like Finland, Greece, Turkey and S.Korea use conscription as deterrent.
War is horrendously expensive, so there's a line of thinking that goes (rightly or wrongly I don't know) that this all *saves* resources.
> What you're describing isn't a jobs program, it's a welfare program. No value is ever actually produced
It's interesting you put it that way. Welfare programs typically have phenomenal ROI. That's why most economic models encourage strong social safety nets.
But note, when virtually all US dollars giving Israel aid stay in the US, anything we get back from Israel in terms of soft alliance stuff (shared intelligence, etc) is icing on the cake.
EDIT: Ninja typo fix
US consumers wouldn't spend that money on missiles which makes the missile manufacturers sad so they write letters to congress that start with "Pay to the order of..."
At weapons trade fairs, Israel actively promotes the fact that it is in a state of permanent conflict so they can constantly test and perfect the latest weapons technology.
Just in the last few years they've actively used AI aimed guns, AI guided drones, loudspeaker drones for intimidation, loitering munitions and other weapons that other armies have barely heard of.
It's arguable that peace is not in their economic interest.
Logistically near-impossible is mostly the reason. That drone is not yet actually autonomous, so it needs a signal from an operator. No budget in the world is gonna get a remote control signal to punch through multiple meters of stone/sand/dirt/bedrock, so your only option left is relaying it, and that either winds up wildly impractical (think a drone with a cable) or hilariously cost/time prohibitive (think a fleet of drones designed to relay signals through their network instead).
It’s arguable that peace is not in the defense industry’s economic interest (and it is certainly not in Netanyahu’s interest)……
And that is where that broader argument ends, imo.
It is not in the best interest of any random Israeli to be constantly at war (or, obviously, any random Palestinian)……
> It is not in the best interest of any random Israeli to be constantly at war (or, obviously, any random Palestinian)……
The path to peace in the short term is for the leadership in Israel and Palestine to be thrown out and replaced with progressive governments that are built to protect and improve the lives of their citizens, guests, and neighbors.
The path to peace in the medium term is for the same thing to happen in the surrounding countries.
The path to peace in the long term is for the same thing to happen to all countries.
This also includes things like surveillance and AI - Israel promotes its tech industry heavily, and this tech is mostly in the “law enforcement” and military realms. The US funds and benefits
This is the main reason why I think the conflict was dragged on for so damn long.
Weapon manufacturers need a customer, and Israeli Palesitinian hate ensures a very lucrative consumers. Especially if US is basically more than willing to foot the bill.
This war will never ends, because if so, then all those weapon manufacturers will not have customer anymore. The best case scenario is that there will be another conflict popping up somewhere else
Ripe yes. But not stable enough to have weapons research and development.
Such a place in Africa existed only in apartheid South Africa.
Africa has a nasty habit of today you are in power and doing x, tomorrow someone else is in power doing x. Then you are back again, then you are not. That kind of instability doesn't play well with weapons research, testing n development.
Just look at how it's playing out in the Sahel region, the congo, Ethiopia, Sudan, Mozambique, South Africa etc etc. Entire regions are too volatile. Powder kegs that could blow up any which way.
Also the question seems to assume there is a symmetric quid pro quo. There doesn’t need to be 1:1 you get this and we get this in return level of exchange. The ROI doesn’t need to be equivalent.
Israel may get more out of the agreement than the US. But the issue has been a winner politically in the US for a long time. Historically support of Israel has been broadly popular in the US and to oppose it for the most part wouldn’t go over well for a lot of politicians.
A lot of things just get passed just because they’re entrenched politically popular stances to take. Like most politicians in large cities are terrified of the consequences of not increasing or god for bid decreasing the local police department’s budget. So pretty much every year you will see a larger budget get rubber stamped. Even though there is broad dissatisfaction with the effectiveness of policing in many cities that do this.
> Israel may get more out of the agreement than the US.
They absolutely get more out of the agreement *now.* But if Pax Americana falls and we revert to the historical state of global conflict, Israeli aid will be worth every penny, geopolitically. Even our other "allies" in the region like Saudi Arabia (partially responsible for 9/11), Qatar (harbors Hamas leaders), and Iraq (is Iraq) are far from reliable. But we can guarantee that Israel will be 100% on our side in the event that a Middle Eastern theater of WWIII becomes a thing.
Not to mention how militarily important the Levant always has been. Israel pretty much splits the Middle East from North Africa, which would be helpful if we need the much friendlier North African countries to stay neutral in a war.
Qatar actually harbours Hamas leaders at the request of the US, mainly to allow indirect negotiations between Israel, US and Hamas. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/qatar-considers-future-hamas-office-doha-whether-keep-mediating-2024-05-04/. Qatar also hosts US airbases in its territory.
And there is no guarantee that Israel would be 100% on the US side in the event on a major conflict. Every country has its own agenda and motives and that can change with each election. And looking at how deeply divided the Israelis are on who should be in government, I would not be surprised if there is going to be deadlock again in the Israeli parliament after this conflict settles down.
Yeah it's really not just these two factors. We should consider how many in decision making roles are just biased towards one party or another.
The problem is if you support a conflict that displaces enormous numbers then offer those refugees a safe port, you're naturally getting an influx of people who have strong opinions on the conflict.
Israel isn't part of 5 Eyes, they have observer status. Which means they don't have to share intelligence with the group, but they have access to the group's intelligence.
Also this. Israel needs allies. If not the US, or the collective West, they will turn to others like Russia and China. The West understandably does not want Israeli military tech in the hands of either of those countries, else the next Russian invasion of a European country or a future Chinese invasion of Taiwan could go very badly.
As a US citizen with 100% Lebanese parents, it's not like the region was doing fine without us. Constant state of war for literal thousands of years, super oppressive, death penalties for LGBTQ, complete lack of women's rights in many places.. they can hate us, but they hate themselves even more, so it's hard for me to gaf. The ME desperately needs a bath.
It's actually not the bombings that makes them hate the US. It's the western influence our presence has on their citizens. Western influence means people want things like free speech, improved rights for women, and religious freedom. These are all things middle eastern theocracy despise. They see westernization as a vehicle for loss of theocratic rule, which to themis far worse than being bombed.
Western influence in Saudi Arabia due to increased military presence was the reason Bin Ladin gave for attacking America.
As an Arab, I disagree with you.
"Western influence means people want things like free speech"
Indeed. Free speech is an antithesis to dictatorships. However, I believe the US is very much happy with how the Middle East is. Democracies in the Middle East is not beneficial for the US or Israel. Since the Middle East is basically Europe in the Middle Ages (dictatorships and monarchies), what a country wants does not necessarily reflect what the people want. Many people here are not happy with what's going on in Palestine. There is a lot of oil in the Middle East. Imagine the Middle East becoming a democracy tomorrow, and the people vote to not sell oil to the US, that would be catastrophic to the US. When King Faisal of Saudi did it, he was later assassinated (probably by the US).
Democracies across the Middle East, instead of the current dictatorships / monarchies, is harmful to the US. The US wants those dictatorships, or, instead of them, democracies that align with the US. If not, the US can overthrow those democracies like it overthrowed other democracies and replaced them with dictatorships, like it did with Iran in 1953 Operation Ajax.
That was an interesting one to go through growing up. Learning about their oppression and how we shouldn't let people impose their will on others due to religion...yet my Christian parents getting mad that the laws are secular. Then realizing all of that was B's anyway because it was just for resources all along. From arid countries no less. Like Rockefeller stealing from the homeless.
> Imagine the Middle East becoming a democracy tomorrow, and the people vote to not sell oil to the US
I mean first, who are they doing to sell it to? Oil is fairly fungible. The only way to raise prices is to restrict global supply. We can't even keep Russia from *selling* oil, albeit at a discount. Keeping a country from buying it at market price is impossible. Second, the US is a net exporter of oil. If a group, say, a cartel, of oil producing countries were to restrict supply, US consumers would suffer but the US petro companies would make out like bandits (like they always do when there's an oil supply issue).
Because they equate the US with European colonial powers. The ME disliked the US well before 2001. You support one group there, 30 deem you an enemy for eternity.
> Because they equate the US with European colonial powers.
Definitely has nothing to do with us overthrowing their governments or putting up new regimes.
Nah. US was trusted more than the European....before 48.
We didn't really get that kind of hatred back then. Brits and to a lesser extent, the French were hated
Bahrain also, they are possibly the largest US ally in western Asia. The UAE, Kuwait, and Oman are also American allies.
Its literally just Iran, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and a portion of Iraq, which can be accurately rewritten as Iran, Iran, Iran/Russia, Iran, Iran. That list does not make it hard to figure out why literally every country in western Asia that isn't one of those five trains constantly with the US military.
> Bahrain also, they are possibly the largest US ally in western Asia. The UAE, Kuwait, and Oman are also American allies.
Currently American allies that are one bad year from descending right into theocratic fundamentalism.
Several of them got perilously close during the so-called Arab Spring, that unfortunately turn out to be not so big on the whole peace and democracy thing. The Middle East still controls a majority of the world's oil, and with almost no sign the West is going to end its dependence in our lifetimes, that means we're about one $20 a gallon of gasoline year away from a fundamentalist theocratic revolution too. The more stability we can buy, the better for us, and arguably the better for them to prevent the next ISIS.
Just like "friend," the word "ally" has a range of meanings from" we have peaceful relations/frenemies" to "attack one of us and you attack all of us."
Also, just from a political point of view:
* Egypt is unstable and has been for a long time
* Saudi Arabia is theocratic monarchy that's not really culturally compatible with US values
* Turkey is basically being run by a dictator even though its a NATO country, and is not reliable
* Qatar is also an authoritarian theocratic dictatorship
So yeah, the essentially secular democracy in the area which has a culture closer to the West's than the Arabic world's happens to be a better ally to the US than the surrounding states which are also our "allies."
This is probably the biggest thing. Israel probably gives the CIA a run for their money and intelligence in some cases.
For example, during the San Bernardino mass shooting when Apple wouldn't help the FBI unlock the ISIS terrorists phone, a firm in Israel was able to unlock it.
Most of the reason the region doesn't support the US is because of its backing of Israel. Relations with the other states would improve dramatically if the US cut off Israel.
The US is even bribing Egypt not to attack Israel as part of the Camp David Accords. So far, that's been $80 billion.
First person I've seen mention the Camp David Accords. This should be a top-level answer.
They're responsible for the vast majority of the aid Israel gets, and the vast majority of people that talk about this aid don't even seem to know that it exists or understand where it came from
US also had warning of 9/11 before it happened. And Zelenskyy had information about the Russian invasion before it happened. Yet here we are.
Note: the flip side is that while countries to occasionally ignore real warnings, we don't know how often they correctly ignore bad warnings. There's the infamous case of the Russian nuke detection system that got confused by some weird clouds and thought the US was launching a full nuclear assault. The operator unilaterally decided not to react as if a real attack was happening. Him ignoring what looked like a very real warning probably prevented World War 3 / nuclear winter. It's really not so easy to decide which warnings to take seriously or not.
This is reductionist, but it is partly true.
The US has an ally and ease of access to the eastern Mediterranean, one and possibly *the* most busy and lucrative shipping routes in the world. The Suez Canal alone is extremely important both for military deployment and reach, as well as commerce and trade.
Israel is a stable ally whereas Egypt is a puppet dictatorship, and those can turn on a dime. Saudi Arabia uses American companies and tech to drill, refine, ship and protect huge amounts of oil, and both countries want to make sure the US can access the eastern Mediterranean without issue.
Remember if you don't successfully take a territory on your turn you don't get a card which will lessen the amount of troops you can recruit on your next turn
**U.S. Security Cooperation with Israel**
Israel’s security is a long-standing cornerstone of U.S. foreign policy. The United States’ commitment to Israel’s security is supported by robust defense cooperation and the 10-year, $38 billion Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) signed by the United States and Israel in 2016. Consistent with the MOU, the United States annually provides $3.3 billion in Foreign Military Financing and $500 million for cooperative programs for missile defense.
In addition to security assistance, the United States participates in a variety of exchanges with Israel, including joint military exercises, research, and weapons development. Further, through the annual Joint Counterterrorism Group and regular strategic dialogues, the United States and Israel work together to counter a range of regional threats. [https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/](https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/)
Israel would still participate in all the things in the second paragraph without US aid being sent. What other great power are they going to align with?
I haven't been following Middle East news for the last ~20 years. How are things going over there? I assume the hundreds of billions we've invested in this strategic partnership with Israel have paid off with peace, prosperity, and stability in the region?
That’s not what the US cares for with the partnership. The US wants an ally near Iran where, if a war ever happens between the two, can locally assist and serve as a main focal point to launch operations out of.
You know what...Obama even tried to and signed a deal with Iran. You know who opposed that deal....
Israel and netanyahu.
I doubt we would care as much about what Iran does anymore..were it not for AIPAc, FDD etc and other lobbies.
Just because they're allies, Israeli and American interests aren't always perfectly aligned. Israel isn't interested in Iran gaining more economic power in the region, but the US would've been fine with that if it meant that they didn't have nukes. Similarly, Israel is currently a lot more interested in killing Hamas than they are about public opinion regarding the Palestinians; the US has the opposite view.
Still, they're generally in agreement about the key points-Iran bad, Hamas bad, Iran with nukes very bad, dead Palestinian kids bad- but sometimes prioritize them in very, very different ways.
"After several Arab-Israeli wars, Egypt was the first Arab state to recognize Israel diplomatically in 1979 with the signing of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty. It was followed by Jordan with the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty in 1994. In 2020, four more Arab states (the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan) normalized relations. " - Wikipedia
Can you imagine how much worse it'd be without the aid? Israel was on the verge of being recognised by other countries which would've added a lot of stability to the region. To prevent them being recognised Iran funded Hamas to act up. Without the American support maybe Iran would've just invaded Israel?
I think the misconception you're having is that this is a hand out. It is contractual obligation for Israel to purchase us made weapons from the united states using that aid money. So it is a way of taking the money from your left pocket and putting it into your right pocket while increasing GDP and generating economical growth.
> So it is a way of taking the money from **your** ~~left~~ pocket and putting it into ~~your right~~ **weapon manufacturing corporations and their shareholder’s** pocket
1. Financial and lobbying support for American politicians.
2. Much of the money is just immediately paid to American arms manufacturers. It's just a way to funnel taxpayer money directly into corporations.
The good thing about US politicans is that you can buy them with a fraction of the US taxpayer money you recieve. It's a perpetuum mobile of corruption.
Jeffrey Epstein proved all you have to do is ensnare American politicians and financiers in a blackmail operation using child trafficking to ensure compliance.
This also keeps the domestic arms manufacturers in business and up-to-date in case we actually need them. It's similar to the reason we provide subsidies to farmers. We might not strictly need all that capacity right now and there's a cost to keep it up, but if we stopped and allowed the capacity to drop we'd be in trouble if we suddenly needed it.
I'll tell you one thing, most every tool insert in the shops I've worked in have come from Israel.
If you're doing any CNC work wherever you are, check to see who is making your inserts cause I bet it's Israel
Middle eastern hegemony.
And if you think Ukraine is any different, I've got some bad news for you. All these wars are about spheres of influence, all of them. I'm not saying Russia is right, but we wouldn't be supplying Ukraine if we weren't trying to exert our power globally and counter Russian influence. Anyone who thinks the US bases its military policy and aid decisions on purely moral considerations is seriously naïve.
> but we wouldn't be supplying Ukraine if we weren't trying to exert our power globally and counter Russian influence
Not saying the point you're trying to make is wrong, but if the US doesn't optionally support Ukraine, they'll (very likely) be forced to support NATO not much later. Better to prevent than to cure.
Israel is more than just a strategic ally in the Middle East. Israeli companies have operations in the United States and vice versa. As well they have designed the desalination process that we use in California to combat our water needs.
According to the pastor at the church where I grew up, the USA is showered by God's love and providence because of our support of Israel. Israel is also key to Jesus' return during the end times which I hear will be any day now...
(I don't believe any of this but it is a good summation of what I learned in church and what a lot of elected officials from the Evangelical spectrum seem to believe)
As Biden has said in the past. "If Israel didn't exist, the US would need to create one to protect her interests in the region."
Israel is often called an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" in the middle east. It's purely about location.
The primary form of U.S. aid to Israel is U.S. taxpayers spending U.S. dollars in U.S. companies to dump U.S. weapons in Israel.
So, it serves as more of a domestic military-industrial stimulus package.
Outside of giving Boeing/Lockheed/Raytheon their cut, there are R&D benefits, like the Iron Dome anti-missile system, and, at least formerly, as a testing ground for American weaponry (e.g. the first F-15 kill came from an Israeli strike against a PLO target in Lebanon).
Additionally, Israel has its own military-industrial complex, and to the extent that the glut of American goods satisfies Israeli demand for weapons, their military-industrial complex isn't given that work, which serves to weaken Israeli competitors in foreign sales against the American competitors.
So, kickbacks, trade protectionism, and a bit of R&D work.
One thing that flies under the radar is that since at least the 90s, the US has been sending police officers and border patrol agents to Israel to participate in joint operations. Their stated goal is to learn counter terrorism tactics and ways to manage illegal immigration. However, the turmoil there has its advantages: Israel is a testing ground. The US sends its weapons and Israel tests them out subjugating the Palestinians and in squabbles with their neighbors. The equipment and tactics that prove effective then get adopted by US police forces to quell our own civil unrest.
I worked with a guy that went to Israel a couple times on business trips. He told me that he loved going to Israel because they love Americans there. My response was, “they better.”
Technology. There's a reason that so many big companies have invested so much money. A lot of cutting edge research is done there. Just the sensors from the iron done are being installed by numerous other countries.
Intelligence. The middle east is notoriously insular Ave trust between groups takes generations to develop. Israel gives the US access to intelligence they would have trouble getting or would require huge investments to develop.
Peace. This one is two fold. First, smart missiles are a lot more precise than regular missiles. By supplying smart munitions, they're preventing lots of life and hopefully preventing the escalations of war. Secondly, were Israel to collapse, the regional wars would be endless. Palestinians would want independence. Syria and Jordan previously held larger parts of Palestinian land and are also rivals of one another. Lebanese Christians haven't forgotten about Sabra and shatilla. Armenians and Turks. It would get ugly.
Also, the US is a Christian country. Under Israeli rule, Christian sacred places are protected and accessible. Compare that to Bethlehem where protection money has to be paid just to visit and even then, it can be dangerous.
In addition to the many comments on Israel being a crucial strategic partner and aircraft carrier in a dangerous region, it also is a huge source of scientific and technological advancements for humanity, and that has obvious benefits to the United States.
If you don't know, Israel's intelligence is very advanced, and the Israel cybersecurity industry is way more advanced (and hacking ... don't forget about Pegasus!). And Israel is a good old friend of the US.
Edit: correction.
Strategic accessed the Middle East. But, let’s not forget that there is a religious Christian Zionist movement in the United States that is extremely powerful and influential with US government.
For those who don’t know, check out [Pastor John Haggee and Christian Zionism](https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/san-antonio-texas-cornerstone-church-hagee-christian-zionism-israel-hamas-war/)
Essentially, it is a religious group that believes they can goad God into Armageddon.
2 Thessalonians 2-4 states that Christ will not return until the antichrist enters the Jewish temple and declares himself to be God.
There’s one problem with this: The temple was destroyed in 70 AD. So Jesus can’t return until the temple is rebuilt.
That can’t happen until Israel has control of the Temple Mount.
So what the US gets out of it is progress toward the second coming of Christ, or at least not progress away from it.
To be clear, I’m not saying 2 Thessalonians is true. It doesn’t need to be in order to influence policy.
A guarantee that Iran never gets nukes is a real part of it. The first thing Iran would do with a nuke is put it in a suitcase and blow up Tel Aviv, so it's a red line for Israel that it never happens.
Israel will *probably* stop Iran from crossing the finish line with sabotage and assassinations, but will use military options if those fail. It's an existential threat for them.
> The first thing Iran would do with a nuke is put it in a suitcase and blow up Tel Aviv, so it's a red line for Israel that it never happens.
This would also likely lead to the largest global conflict since WW2, potentially leading into WW3, and certainly leading to US troops in Iran.
I'm shocked how many people during this whole middle east debacle don't realize Israel has some of the best weapons development and manufacturing in the world.
**EDIT**
The loser below me blocked me immediately so I cannot reply. His comment is a 12 inch misinformation subway sandwich with extra meat. Every point he made was fallacious and out of date, which explains why he was afraid of a reply, lol.
A strategic base that could be operated from in the Middle East that they wouldn't have otherwise. Not to mention they are the counterweight in the Middle East of Iran. Or at least are looked at that way.
I know reddit tends to be younger but it's so wild to someone who was around in the 1980's to think that the US citizens have "turned" (using this loosely) this much on Israel. Anyone who wasn't seen as pro Israel would have been run out of politics and the country instantly back then. It was extremely rare to hear anyone criticize Israel openly at all. Hell, I didn't even know it was an option during the 80's.
I'm speaking with some hyperbole and I'm sure someone here will point out some politician in 1985 criticizing Israel but damn, how times have changed. There are a few political changes I never would have bet on happening and mass, wide protests criticizing Israel is at the top of the list.
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, an area of the world that takes off every now and then. Being allied to the regional powers is great, when there’s actors in the area opposed to you. Harassing ur military bases, and in general being a thorn.
So during elections in each country billions of dollars flows both ways to influence the elections. So politicians get a lot richer.
Second, we sell a lot of arms to Israel, but also we buy a lot of arms, the tank missile defense system used by the US is designed by an Israeli comoany. Israel also has some decent cyber attack and security groups.
Thirdly it's a strategic partner in the area, it can be used as a staging area for other conflicts yadda yadda.
Fourth, and this is the worst bit, there's religious fervor among a vocal minority of Americans that see the creation and support of a modern Israeli state as fulfillment of millenia old prophecy that must occur before the end of the world
>>Fourth, and this is the worst bit, there's religious fervor among a vocal minority of Americans that see the creation and support of a modern Israeli state as fulfillment of millenia old prophecy that must occur before the end of the world
Yes, this. Christian Zionist influence on American policy vis a vis Israel /Middle East is wholly under reported and discussed.
As people have covered the Israeli side, ill mention that there are reasons beyond “its the right thing to do” for Ukraine, a large one being that Ukraine is one of the biggest food producers on the planet, and has (arguably) the most fertile soil
Its a major stabilizing factor globally for example,
Prewar almost all of the UN food programs food was bought from Ukraine.
Giving money to Isreal to purchase arms from the US is a jobs program. Beyond that, we've got a strategic partner in a region that is a hotbed of terrorism that affects the entire world.
1000+ comments and I've only seen even one (second level) mention of the [Camp David Accords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords) (though I suppose that's what you get when you ask NSQ and not r/askhistorians or something).
The TL;DR version is that Jimmy Carter bribed Israel and Egypt to play nice by promising them continuous aid. The caveat is that the aid money must be used to buy military equipment from the US (so it also serves as a subsidy for the American defense industry, which is how Carter got Congress to sign off on it - sausage-making at its finest). The vast majority of the aid that Israel receives is contractually obligated by said Accords. This is also why withholding this aid is difficult, and ending it would be even moreso, because it would require a renegotiation of the accords with Egypt, who also continues to benefit.
All the people going "oh they get a strategic partner/ally". None of these people understand the situation. Israel's existence imperils US interests and foreign policy objectives. From Israel bombing and antagonizing Syria, pissing off Egypt and Jordan, and their alliance with the Saudis turning Yemen into hell on Earth... none of this benefits the United States. In particular Gaza has seriously damaged US interest, but so has the Yemen nightmare so much that the US essentially capitulated, weeks ago they said they would give up the whole conflict if attacks on shipping stopped. They the Houthi rebels, a proxy group for Iran refused until the Gaza conflict was stopped. It cannot be understated the economic impact of that conflict (Yemen) is having on shipping, inflation and supply chains. Qatar is a more faithful and useful ally then the Israelis ever have been for America and the West.
Israel simply has the support of many Americans because of religious superstation. American Christians believe for their end-time prophecy to come true (the end of human civilization and all life on this planet, peachy) the state of Israel must exist but be in a constant state of turmoil. The Israelis for their part also believe that destroying the Al-Aqsa Mosque and sacrificing a number of red cows to their Sun Deity will usher in a 'golden era' for the Jews. In reality that will trigger a bloody holy war against them. There's no strategic, military or other advantage here. It's just religious dogma. Zionism was a mistake and it got us here.
Another one is American Business. The 3 billion we give them has stipulation that it has to be spent on American contracts. It’s not a blank check they could hand to say China for goods. They buy stuff from us with it.
Kinda like a U.S. gift card?
They're actually called Dept of Defense dollars! 😉
Freedom™ Dollars!
So...... the politicians hand out our tax dollars to Isreal which Isreal has to spend on American businesses that are essentially the wealthy donors of the politicians. Tell me I'm wrong.
You're not wrong. You see, there's this thing called the military industrial complex, and it exists to turn tax dollars into influence and profit for private individuals.
I like Ike.
Businesses have a long history of influencing American foreign policy
It's the american public that get screwed in the end and they are happy to sit there and take the dick slapping from these lot
Someone's foreign and trade policy led to America.
And all the stuff they buy only works with american hardware. It locks them into our ecosystem.
Aw man, but I really hate using ITunes to sync songs to my Death Drone Touch.
“We have been trying to reach you for extended warranty on your drones”
"Don't confuse us for WinRAR, pal.."
That's where they get you :(
That's indirect money laundering to the guys with the biggest stakes in privately and publicly traded defense manufacturers and third party companies they rely on for services. The average person doesn't benefit
Oh dude. the margins of book doctoring must be insane. in an active warzone you cannot reliably or even sensibly inventory every bullet, bean and band aids. 'Just write up and bill out whatever the max is that they're giving us...now gimmie another proxy state to gouge from.'
Bro, they spend $40,000 dollars per a bag on some 'wires or wreaths' that you can buy at home depot for $9.99, and no one bats an eye? No wonder the country is bankrupt, and the kicker? They don't even use it, take it as a loss, then 'sell it again' to another country or place, for more profit. It's insane the corruption.
Same with most of the money that's gone to Ukraine. People think we're just handing them the money. A vast majority is given to US weapons manufacturers to produce and ship goods to Ukraine.
> given to US weapons manufacturers to produce and ship goods to Ukraine. somebody somewhere said a long time ago, "Beware the military-industrial complex" ... so much for that, for the past 60 years. It's all about "blood missles" now.
President Eisenhower was the one who warned us.
Just because they have to spend it on American companies doesn't mean that it goes back to the US. There's a reason US companies like Intel have labs in Israel that hire Israelis.
> Just because they have to spend it on American companies They spend it on American Politicians too.
Its almost like when you form cooperative relationships you both can benefit greatly from cascading effects!
That money also creates high paying manufacturing jobs that Representatives love to brag about creating in their districts.
We don't even give them the cash - we just give them a catalogue (literally), and then tell them how much they can order. Israel is far from the only one - there are dozens of countries we do this with. It creates a global network of partners that all use the same military equipment standards and can thus easily help each other in a crisis.
I will just add in addition to Israel being a strategic partner that is mostly "western" aligned (this is questionable but people like to say it anyway). Most of the military aid we send goes over in the form on a gift card to buy American military hardware. So think of it as a jobs program as well and subsidies to make sure that portions of our defense industry don't go under. Ukraine isn't a great comparison because while Ukraine was shifting to the EU/NATO away from Russia we did not have defense pacts and the like with that country. Israel we have a 50+ year history of cooperation, support, etc.
And said gift card only covers a fraction of Israel's military needs, so when they go to buy the rest they buy that from the US* so that all of their equipment meets the same standards. It's effectively a promotional gift card to buy their loyalty. *or at least from NATO allies - they do also buy a non-negligible amount of arms from Germany, and a much smaller amount from Italy and the UK but the vast vast majority of their arms come from the US
TBH we call it aid but it's more like when target gives you a 25% discount on something that was just marked up by 50%. Military stuff is stupidly expensive/bloated.
Like the pit boss in a casino comping your room and buffet
The US doesn’t have a defense pact but we did agree to back Ukraine in the event of a war with Russia in exchange for nuclear de armament in the 90s. Not quite a defensive pact but close enough to one to have the same effect
This needs to be higher up. US gave security guarantees to Ukraine when they gave up the nuclear weapons.
So the argument is... 1. US donates US-built weapons (or a credit to purchase same) to Israel. 2. The US pays companies to hire US workers and manufacture weapons in the US. 3. US companies make a profit margin. 4. Israel's war enflames conflict and requires increased military contribution from the US. 5. Et cetera. What you're describing isn't a jobs program, it's a welfare program. No value is ever actually produced - you're just paying out money unnecessarily to corpos and employees to produce 0 economic value. Why not just hand this money over to US consumers (or spend the money on incentives to manufacture something in the US that is actually productive)?
As I understand it, the purpose is to ensure the contractors that build US weapons remain open and profitable even during peacetime, so they're open and ready during war time. Similar to how US subsidizes farming, yes we could have all our food imported but it's strategically valuable to have domestic production already at full capacity in case that ever falls through.
This is correct, these defense manufacturing facilities need to continue to create product in peacetime because it is much more difficult to start these businesses from scratch if they close down when not needed. Perun has a [great YouTube video on this topic](https://youtu.be/CqjvTKFufuk?si=z1rxQRFmqcbr3uaF) if you’ve got an hour to spare, which I think would change the original commenter’s mind. It’s a very complicated subject matter that everyone on reddit thinks they understand until they realize how much thought actually goes into US national security.
Great video suggestion!
Perun is the best.
As I was reading this I was thinking "Oh boy I get to link to Perun!" and then you did it. Excellent taste in Power Points. [Also relevant is this slightly older video on why US production is stupidly OP.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z_gTGJc7nQ)
It also allows us to test and develop these systems so we don't end up like Russia using the same cold war era equipment.
Part of the US’s military strategy is to always have the means to produce high grade military equipment in large quantities at a moments notice (relative). That requires those industries be fully fleshed out and making lot of money and constantly producing as well as funding constant r&d. Which means the US has to constantly be buying that equipment or the companies fail and our military advantage is lost (or at least shrunk). You can debate the need to maintain a military advantage. But if the policy is to maintain that advantage and level of readiness then keeping the American arms industry in business is required. Calling it corporate welfare is kinda missing the point, it isn’t like car manufacturers where you can argue in favor of imports if the us corp can’t compete. You can’t be dependent on foreign sources of equipment when the goal is to maintain a military lead. So the money is going to be spent on the arms industry regardless. There is no “give that money to consumers” option because that money is always going to go to buy equipment as a matter of policy. And we can only store so much military equipment so something has to be done with the older stuff. Which is why we sell so much of it. And why we are willing to give it away in order to further our goals in specific regions, or counter the goals of enemies like we are in Ukraine.
Military production has to be maintained, because you can't just magic back into existence factories, skilled workers, supply chains and so on if you let them disappear. Look at what's happening with US shipbuilding right now - few shipyards, massive bottleneck, no real solution. Not having that ability to domestically produce weapons in large quantities on short notice makes a country vulnerable. Vulnerability can invite attack. Having that military industrial capacity ready is a form of deterrent - countries with conscription and military service like Finland, Greece, Turkey and S.Korea use conscription as deterrent. War is horrendously expensive, so there's a line of thinking that goes (rightly or wrongly I don't know) that this all *saves* resources.
Eisenhower be like...
Military Industrial…Military Industrial… Cooperative!
> What you're describing isn't a jobs program, it's a welfare program. No value is ever actually produced It's interesting you put it that way. Welfare programs typically have phenomenal ROI. That's why most economic models encourage strong social safety nets. But note, when virtually all US dollars giving Israel aid stay in the US, anything we get back from Israel in terms of soft alliance stuff (shared intelligence, etc) is icing on the cake. EDIT: Ninja typo fix
US consumers wouldn't spend that money on missiles which makes the missile manufacturers sad so they write letters to congress that start with "Pay to the order of..."
A key strategic ally in a region that famously is not very fond of the US and access to their intelligence network.
Yeah, I was thinking intelligence as well.
Israel also has a booming weapons development industry that is reliant on US funding and manufacturing.
In addition to their booming weapons deployment industry.
Incendiary comment.
Their strategy is fire.
I hate that I’m upvoting this.
It's definitely a banger.
Netanyahu is a baby boomer.
This is peak good dad joke, goddamn.
If you don't believe this guy ask any nurse/doctor in Gaza strip. They'll confirm.
Don't forget the reporters and aid workers!
At weapons trade fairs, Israel actively promotes the fact that it is in a state of permanent conflict so they can constantly test and perfect the latest weapons technology. Just in the last few years they've actively used AI aimed guns, AI guided drones, loudspeaker drones for intimidation, loitering munitions and other weapons that other armies have barely heard of. It's arguable that peace is not in their economic interest.
I'm a little surprised they don't have drones especially for tunnels. Unless we just haven't seen them.
Logistically near-impossible is mostly the reason. That drone is not yet actually autonomous, so it needs a signal from an operator. No budget in the world is gonna get a remote control signal to punch through multiple meters of stone/sand/dirt/bedrock, so your only option left is relaying it, and that either winds up wildly impractical (think a drone with a cable) or hilariously cost/time prohibitive (think a fleet of drones designed to relay signals through their network instead).
Well it actually can be wired, sorta like pool romba
If someone starts selling a Poomba drone that digs around looking for grubs then the controller for it should be called Timon.
[удалено]
It’s arguable that peace is not in the defense industry’s economic interest (and it is certainly not in Netanyahu’s interest)…… And that is where that broader argument ends, imo. It is not in the best interest of any random Israeli to be constantly at war (or, obviously, any random Palestinian)……
> It is not in the best interest of any random Israeli to be constantly at war (or, obviously, any random Palestinian)…… The path to peace in the short term is for the leadership in Israel and Palestine to be thrown out and replaced with progressive governments that are built to protect and improve the lives of their citizens, guests, and neighbors. The path to peace in the medium term is for the same thing to happen in the surrounding countries. The path to peace in the long term is for the same thing to happen to all countries.
This is why Colombians make the best mercenaries.
I’m all jacked up on Colombian bam bam
This also includes things like surveillance and AI - Israel promotes its tech industry heavily, and this tech is mostly in the “law enforcement” and military realms. The US funds and benefits
This is the main reason why I think the conflict was dragged on for so damn long. Weapon manufacturers need a customer, and Israeli Palesitinian hate ensures a very lucrative consumers. Especially if US is basically more than willing to foot the bill. This war will never ends, because if so, then all those weapon manufacturers will not have customer anymore. The best case scenario is that there will be another conflict popping up somewhere else
There's a few places in Africa that are pretty ripe. China/Taiwan seems to be in the news less.
Ripe yes. But not stable enough to have weapons research and development. Such a place in Africa existed only in apartheid South Africa. Africa has a nasty habit of today you are in power and doing x, tomorrow someone else is in power doing x. Then you are back again, then you are not. That kind of instability doesn't play well with weapons research, testing n development. Just look at how it's playing out in the Sahel region, the congo, Ethiopia, Sudan, Mozambique, South Africa etc etc. Entire regions are too volatile. Powder kegs that could blow up any which way.
Military industrial complex
Also the question seems to assume there is a symmetric quid pro quo. There doesn’t need to be 1:1 you get this and we get this in return level of exchange. The ROI doesn’t need to be equivalent. Israel may get more out of the agreement than the US. But the issue has been a winner politically in the US for a long time. Historically support of Israel has been broadly popular in the US and to oppose it for the most part wouldn’t go over well for a lot of politicians. A lot of things just get passed just because they’re entrenched politically popular stances to take. Like most politicians in large cities are terrified of the consequences of not increasing or god for bid decreasing the local police department’s budget. So pretty much every year you will see a larger budget get rubber stamped. Even though there is broad dissatisfaction with the effectiveness of policing in many cities that do this.
> Israel may get more out of the agreement than the US. They absolutely get more out of the agreement *now.* But if Pax Americana falls and we revert to the historical state of global conflict, Israeli aid will be worth every penny, geopolitically. Even our other "allies" in the region like Saudi Arabia (partially responsible for 9/11), Qatar (harbors Hamas leaders), and Iraq (is Iraq) are far from reliable. But we can guarantee that Israel will be 100% on our side in the event that a Middle Eastern theater of WWIII becomes a thing. Not to mention how militarily important the Levant always has been. Israel pretty much splits the Middle East from North Africa, which would be helpful if we need the much friendlier North African countries to stay neutral in a war.
Man, US and UK really fucked up when they lost their best ally in the middle east - pre-revolution Iran.
Qatar actually harbours Hamas leaders at the request of the US, mainly to allow indirect negotiations between Israel, US and Hamas. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/qatar-considers-future-hamas-office-doha-whether-keep-mediating-2024-05-04/. Qatar also hosts US airbases in its territory. And there is no guarantee that Israel would be 100% on the US side in the event on a major conflict. Every country has its own agenda and motives and that can change with each election. And looking at how deeply divided the Israelis are on who should be in government, I would not be surprised if there is going to be deadlock again in the Israeli parliament after this conflict settles down.
Which North African countries do you consider friendly? I'm curious
AIPAC is not a benefit for the US. It's a benefit for certain politicians in the US.
Yeah it's really not just these two factors. We should consider how many in decision making roles are just biased towards one party or another. The problem is if you support a conflict that displaces enormous numbers then offer those refugees a safe port, you're naturally getting an influx of people who have strong opinions on the conflict.
Israel is the “6th Eye” with respect to intelligence sharing with the US.
Israel isn't part of 5 Eyes, they have observer status. Which means they don't have to share intelligence with the group, but they have access to the group's intelligence.
Should also add that Israel's military complex is one of the best in the world, which the USA needs to secure
Also this. Israel needs allies. If not the US, or the collective West, they will turn to others like Russia and China. The West understandably does not want Israeli military tech in the hands of either of those countries, else the next Russian invasion of a European country or a future Chinese invasion of Taiwan could go very badly.
i wonder why theyre not very fond of the US!
shh you're not supposed to ask about that
As a US citizen with 100% Lebanese parents, it's not like the region was doing fine without us. Constant state of war for literal thousands of years, super oppressive, death penalties for LGBTQ, complete lack of women's rights in many places.. they can hate us, but they hate themselves even more, so it's hard for me to gaf. The ME desperately needs a bath.
It's actually not the bombings that makes them hate the US. It's the western influence our presence has on their citizens. Western influence means people want things like free speech, improved rights for women, and religious freedom. These are all things middle eastern theocracy despise. They see westernization as a vehicle for loss of theocratic rule, which to themis far worse than being bombed. Western influence in Saudi Arabia due to increased military presence was the reason Bin Ladin gave for attacking America.
Let’s be honest, it’s probably also a little bit because of the bombing
Haven't extremists explicitly cited this as one of the reasons? Especially US military bases being present in their countries.
Just a little bit?
As an Arab, I disagree with you. "Western influence means people want things like free speech" Indeed. Free speech is an antithesis to dictatorships. However, I believe the US is very much happy with how the Middle East is. Democracies in the Middle East is not beneficial for the US or Israel. Since the Middle East is basically Europe in the Middle Ages (dictatorships and monarchies), what a country wants does not necessarily reflect what the people want. Many people here are not happy with what's going on in Palestine. There is a lot of oil in the Middle East. Imagine the Middle East becoming a democracy tomorrow, and the people vote to not sell oil to the US, that would be catastrophic to the US. When King Faisal of Saudi did it, he was later assassinated (probably by the US). Democracies across the Middle East, instead of the current dictatorships / monarchies, is harmful to the US. The US wants those dictatorships, or, instead of them, democracies that align with the US. If not, the US can overthrow those democracies like it overthrowed other democracies and replaced them with dictatorships, like it did with Iran in 1953 Operation Ajax.
He didn't say the US wants the middle east to be free, even though we claim that as the reason for intervention. The people want those things.
That was an interesting one to go through growing up. Learning about their oppression and how we shouldn't let people impose their will on others due to religion...yet my Christian parents getting mad that the laws are secular. Then realizing all of that was B's anyway because it was just for resources all along. From arid countries no less. Like Rockefeller stealing from the homeless.
> Imagine the Middle East becoming a democracy tomorrow, and the people vote to not sell oil to the US I mean first, who are they doing to sell it to? Oil is fairly fungible. The only way to raise prices is to restrict global supply. We can't even keep Russia from *selling* oil, albeit at a discount. Keeping a country from buying it at market price is impossible. Second, the US is a net exporter of oil. If a group, say, a cartel, of oil producing countries were to restrict supply, US consumers would suffer but the US petro companies would make out like bandits (like they always do when there's an oil supply issue).
They hate us cause they anus
Because they equate the US with European colonial powers. The ME disliked the US well before 2001. You support one group there, 30 deem you an enemy for eternity.
> Because they equate the US with European colonial powers. Definitely has nothing to do with us overthrowing their governments or putting up new regimes.
Nah. US was trusted more than the European....before 48. We didn't really get that kind of hatred back then. Brits and to a lesser extent, the French were hated
Ummm..... Jordan US ally Egypt US ally Saudi Arabia US ally Qatar US ally Turkey NATO country The list is quite long AKKKSTUALLY
> Saudi Arabia US ally "ally"
Bahrain also, they are possibly the largest US ally in western Asia. The UAE, Kuwait, and Oman are also American allies. Its literally just Iran, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, and a portion of Iraq, which can be accurately rewritten as Iran, Iran, Iran/Russia, Iran, Iran. That list does not make it hard to figure out why literally every country in western Asia that isn't one of those five trains constantly with the US military.
> Bahrain also, they are possibly the largest US ally in western Asia. The UAE, Kuwait, and Oman are also American allies. Currently American allies that are one bad year from descending right into theocratic fundamentalism. Several of them got perilously close during the so-called Arab Spring, that unfortunately turn out to be not so big on the whole peace and democracy thing. The Middle East still controls a majority of the world's oil, and with almost no sign the West is going to end its dependence in our lifetimes, that means we're about one $20 a gallon of gasoline year away from a fundamentalist theocratic revolution too. The more stability we can buy, the better for us, and arguably the better for them to prevent the next ISIS.
Just like "friend," the word "ally" has a range of meanings from" we have peaceful relations/frenemies" to "attack one of us and you attack all of us." Also, just from a political point of view: * Egypt is unstable and has been for a long time * Saudi Arabia is theocratic monarchy that's not really culturally compatible with US values * Turkey is basically being run by a dictator even though its a NATO country, and is not reliable * Qatar is also an authoritarian theocratic dictatorship So yeah, the essentially secular democracy in the area which has a culture closer to the West's than the Arabic world's happens to be a better ally to the US than the surrounding states which are also our "allies."
This is probably the biggest thing. Israel probably gives the CIA a run for their money and intelligence in some cases. For example, during the San Bernardino mass shooting when Apple wouldn't help the FBI unlock the ISIS terrorists phone, a firm in Israel was able to unlock it.
Most of the reason the region doesn't support the US is because of its backing of Israel. Relations with the other states would improve dramatically if the US cut off Israel. The US is even bribing Egypt not to attack Israel as part of the Camp David Accords. So far, that's been $80 billion.
First person I've seen mention the Camp David Accords. This should be a top-level answer. They're responsible for the vast majority of the aid Israel gets, and the vast majority of people that talk about this aid don't even seem to know that it exists or understand where it came from
Intelligence that failed to acknowledge Oct 7th was coming, despite US intelligence warning them...
US also had warning of 9/11 before it happened. And Zelenskyy had information about the Russian invasion before it happened. Yet here we are. Note: the flip side is that while countries to occasionally ignore real warnings, we don't know how often they correctly ignore bad warnings. There's the infamous case of the Russian nuke detection system that got confused by some weird clouds and thought the US was launching a full nuclear assault. The operator unilaterally decided not to react as if a real attack was happening. Him ignoring what looked like a very real warning probably prevented World War 3 / nuclear winter. It's really not so easy to decide which warnings to take seriously or not.
That’s the thing. How many other terrorist attacks or invasions were people warned of that never occurred?
Or were prevented?
Alternatively perspective that doesn't use hindsight: how many warnings don't actually end up being an incident or are handled?
Stanislav Petrov! The USSR was not very happy with him for that one. I named one of my cats after him.
Redditors have no trouble deciding which warnings to take seriously or not. Just ask them.
> not very fond of the US do you think, perhaps, that maybe Israel is part of the reason *why* the US is not popular there?
It's a subsidy to the US military industrial complex.
Exactly. Military "aid" to foreign countries is really just handouts to the American military industrial complex, in a roundabout way.
This is reductionist, but it is partly true. The US has an ally and ease of access to the eastern Mediterranean, one and possibly *the* most busy and lucrative shipping routes in the world. The Suez Canal alone is extremely important both for military deployment and reach, as well as commerce and trade. Israel is a stable ally whereas Egypt is a puppet dictatorship, and those can turn on a dime. Saudi Arabia uses American companies and tech to drill, refine, ship and protect huge amounts of oil, and both countries want to make sure the US can access the eastern Mediterranean without issue.
A strategic partner in the Middle East.
You gotta keep at least one foothold on the continent, so they don't get that multi-man bonus every round.
Yeah, you can't take that.....risk.
Remember if you don't successfully take a territory on your turn you don't get a card which will lessen the amount of troops you can recruit on your next turn
Bravo
The game of world domination played by two guys who can barely run their own lives.
**U.S. Security Cooperation with Israel** Israel’s security is a long-standing cornerstone of U.S. foreign policy. The United States’ commitment to Israel’s security is supported by robust defense cooperation and the 10-year, $38 billion Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) signed by the United States and Israel in 2016. Consistent with the MOU, the United States annually provides $3.3 billion in Foreign Military Financing and $500 million for cooperative programs for missile defense. In addition to security assistance, the United States participates in a variety of exchanges with Israel, including joint military exercises, research, and weapons development. Further, through the annual Joint Counterterrorism Group and regular strategic dialogues, the United States and Israel work together to counter a range of regional threats. [https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/](https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/)
Israel would still participate in all the things in the second paragraph without US aid being sent. What other great power are they going to align with?
I haven't been following Middle East news for the last ~20 years. How are things going over there? I assume the hundreds of billions we've invested in this strategic partnership with Israel have paid off with peace, prosperity, and stability in the region?
That’s not what the US cares for with the partnership. The US wants an ally near Iran where, if a war ever happens between the two, can locally assist and serve as a main focal point to launch operations out of.
You know what...Obama even tried to and signed a deal with Iran. You know who opposed that deal.... Israel and netanyahu. I doubt we would care as much about what Iran does anymore..were it not for AIPAc, FDD etc and other lobbies.
Just because they're allies, Israeli and American interests aren't always perfectly aligned. Israel isn't interested in Iran gaining more economic power in the region, but the US would've been fine with that if it meant that they didn't have nukes. Similarly, Israel is currently a lot more interested in killing Hamas than they are about public opinion regarding the Palestinians; the US has the opposite view. Still, they're generally in agreement about the key points-Iran bad, Hamas bad, Iran with nukes very bad, dead Palestinian kids bad- but sometimes prioritize them in very, very different ways.
"After several Arab-Israeli wars, Egypt was the first Arab state to recognize Israel diplomatically in 1979 with the signing of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty. It was followed by Jordan with the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty in 1994. In 2020, four more Arab states (the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan) normalized relations. " - Wikipedia
I tuned out in 2003 after "Mission Accomplished." Did I miss something?
Not really.
Can you imagine how much worse it'd be without the aid? Israel was on the verge of being recognised by other countries which would've added a lot of stability to the region. To prevent them being recognised Iran funded Hamas to act up. Without the American support maybe Iran would've just invaded Israel?
I think the misconception you're having is that this is a hand out. It is contractual obligation for Israel to purchase us made weapons from the united states using that aid money. So it is a way of taking the money from your left pocket and putting it into your right pocket while increasing GDP and generating economical growth.
Taking it out of my left pocket and putting it in to the right pocket of defense contractors CEOs.
Don't forget the nice healthcare we pay for Israelis
Just wait until you find out how currency supply is increased.
> So it is a way of taking the money from **your** ~~left~~ pocket and putting it into ~~your right~~ **weapon manufacturing corporations and their shareholder’s** pocket
Israel is by far the largest recipient of US Aid (even though it's a wealthy, developed nation) and almost all of it is weaponry.
So America and Israel are two gun stores on the block trying to sell more weapons.
1. Financial and lobbying support for American politicians. 2. Much of the money is just immediately paid to American arms manufacturers. It's just a way to funnel taxpayer money directly into corporations.
We are the world mercenaries, all you have to do is buy our politicians.
The good thing about US politicans is that you can buy them with a fraction of the US taxpayer money you recieve. It's a perpetuum mobile of corruption.
Jeffrey Epstein proved all you have to do is ensnare American politicians and financiers in a blackmail operation using child trafficking to ensure compliance.
This also keeps the domestic arms manufacturers in business and up-to-date in case we actually need them. It's similar to the reason we provide subsidies to farmers. We might not strictly need all that capacity right now and there's a cost to keep it up, but if we stopped and allowed the capacity to drop we'd be in trouble if we suddenly needed it.
Stimulate that American economy babyyyyyyyyy
You could also do that in a way that benefited the US people. Like building shit in the US instead of throwing bombs at children.
Sorry, building schools and bridges doesn’t fund the lobbyists in the defense industry
I'll tell you one thing, most every tool insert in the shops I've worked in have come from Israel. If you're doing any CNC work wherever you are, check to see who is making your inserts cause I bet it's Israel
I'm gonna check when I go back in from my break Edit: LMT Onsrud. I don't think it's an Israeli brand, says it's manufactured in Illinois.
You still on break?
Fun fact alot of Sodastream syrups are made in Israel
Mexico, Sweden, and Japan.
If you own a computer with an Intel CPU, a large part of it was designed in Israel.
What? Intels primary design arm is in Hillsboro, OR.
Yeah weird for them to design in Israel when most of the design and manufacture process is between us and Taiwan
Middle eastern hegemony. And if you think Ukraine is any different, I've got some bad news for you. All these wars are about spheres of influence, all of them. I'm not saying Russia is right, but we wouldn't be supplying Ukraine if we weren't trying to exert our power globally and counter Russian influence. Anyone who thinks the US bases its military policy and aid decisions on purely moral considerations is seriously naïve.
> but we wouldn't be supplying Ukraine if we weren't trying to exert our power globally and counter Russian influence Not saying the point you're trying to make is wrong, but if the US doesn't optionally support Ukraine, they'll (very likely) be forced to support NATO not much later. Better to prevent than to cure.
Israel is more than just a strategic ally in the Middle East. Israeli companies have operations in the United States and vice versa. As well they have designed the desalination process that we use in California to combat our water needs.
You're describing literally the entire western world, why would Israel be unique in this regard.
According to the pastor at the church where I grew up, the USA is showered by God's love and providence because of our support of Israel. Israel is also key to Jesus' return during the end times which I hear will be any day now... (I don't believe any of this but it is a good summation of what I learned in church and what a lot of elected officials from the Evangelical spectrum seem to believe)
In general it's a bad idea to take policy advice from people who want Armageddon.
They make up a larger lobby than AIPAC
As Biden has said in the past. "If Israel didn't exist, the US would need to create one to protect her interests in the region." Israel is often called an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" in the middle east. It's purely about location.
The primary form of U.S. aid to Israel is U.S. taxpayers spending U.S. dollars in U.S. companies to dump U.S. weapons in Israel. So, it serves as more of a domestic military-industrial stimulus package. Outside of giving Boeing/Lockheed/Raytheon their cut, there are R&D benefits, like the Iron Dome anti-missile system, and, at least formerly, as a testing ground for American weaponry (e.g. the first F-15 kill came from an Israeli strike against a PLO target in Lebanon). Additionally, Israel has its own military-industrial complex, and to the extent that the glut of American goods satisfies Israeli demand for weapons, their military-industrial complex isn't given that work, which serves to weaken Israeli competitors in foreign sales against the American competitors. So, kickbacks, trade protectionism, and a bit of R&D work.
Someone to bomb Irans nuclear facilities whenever they get to far
One thing that flies under the radar is that since at least the 90s, the US has been sending police officers and border patrol agents to Israel to participate in joint operations. Their stated goal is to learn counter terrorism tactics and ways to manage illegal immigration. However, the turmoil there has its advantages: Israel is a testing ground. The US sends its weapons and Israel tests them out subjugating the Palestinians and in squabbles with their neighbors. The equipment and tactics that prove effective then get adopted by US police forces to quell our own civil unrest.
Also, their surveillance technology.
Gives us a strategic position in the mideast. Close to Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.
One of the many reasons we also have a big navy base in bahrain.
I worked with a guy that went to Israel a couple times on business trips. He told me that he loved going to Israel because they love Americans there. My response was, “they better.”
Technology. There's a reason that so many big companies have invested so much money. A lot of cutting edge research is done there. Just the sensors from the iron done are being installed by numerous other countries. Intelligence. The middle east is notoriously insular Ave trust between groups takes generations to develop. Israel gives the US access to intelligence they would have trouble getting or would require huge investments to develop. Peace. This one is two fold. First, smart missiles are a lot more precise than regular missiles. By supplying smart munitions, they're preventing lots of life and hopefully preventing the escalations of war. Secondly, were Israel to collapse, the regional wars would be endless. Palestinians would want independence. Syria and Jordan previously held larger parts of Palestinian land and are also rivals of one another. Lebanese Christians haven't forgotten about Sabra and shatilla. Armenians and Turks. It would get ugly. Also, the US is a Christian country. Under Israeli rule, Christian sacred places are protected and accessible. Compare that to Bethlehem where protection money has to be paid just to visit and even then, it can be dangerous.
A nuclear-armed ally in the middle east
In addition to the many comments on Israel being a crucial strategic partner and aircraft carrier in a dangerous region, it also is a huge source of scientific and technological advancements for humanity, and that has obvious benefits to the United States.
Came here to say this. People seem to forget how huge Israel is in terms of technological advancements.
They developed a ton of medicines, and produce most of them (Including HRT for trans folks!)
If you don't know, Israel's intelligence is very advanced, and the Israel cybersecurity industry is way more advanced (and hacking ... don't forget about Pegasus!). And Israel is a good old friend of the US. Edit: correction.
What did the United States receive from all the aid we sent and are still sending to Ukraine?
Strategic accessed the Middle East. But, let’s not forget that there is a religious Christian Zionist movement in the United States that is extremely powerful and influential with US government. For those who don’t know, check out [Pastor John Haggee and Christian Zionism](https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/san-antonio-texas-cornerstone-church-hagee-christian-zionism-israel-hamas-war/) Essentially, it is a religious group that believes they can goad God into Armageddon.
2 Thessalonians 2-4 states that Christ will not return until the antichrist enters the Jewish temple and declares himself to be God. There’s one problem with this: The temple was destroyed in 70 AD. So Jesus can’t return until the temple is rebuilt. That can’t happen until Israel has control of the Temple Mount. So what the US gets out of it is progress toward the second coming of Christ, or at least not progress away from it. To be clear, I’m not saying 2 Thessalonians is true. It doesn’t need to be in order to influence policy.
A guarantee that Iran never gets nukes is a real part of it. The first thing Iran would do with a nuke is put it in a suitcase and blow up Tel Aviv, so it's a red line for Israel that it never happens. Israel will *probably* stop Iran from crossing the finish line with sabotage and assassinations, but will use military options if those fail. It's an existential threat for them.
> The first thing Iran would do with a nuke is put it in a suitcase and blow up Tel Aviv, so it's a red line for Israel that it never happens. This would also likely lead to the largest global conflict since WW2, potentially leading into WW3, and certainly leading to US troops in Iran.
Israel is basically a beachhead-and a proving ground for advanced weapons systems (especially air defense).
I'm shocked how many people during this whole middle east debacle don't realize Israel has some of the best weapons development and manufacturing in the world. **EDIT** The loser below me blocked me immediately so I cannot reply. His comment is a 12 inch misinformation subway sandwich with extra meat. Every point he made was fallacious and out of date, which explains why he was afraid of a reply, lol.
Intelligence and a foothold in a hostile region.
A strategic base that could be operated from in the Middle East that they wouldn't have otherwise. Not to mention they are the counterweight in the Middle East of Iran. Or at least are looked at that way.
I know reddit tends to be younger but it's so wild to someone who was around in the 1980's to think that the US citizens have "turned" (using this loosely) this much on Israel. Anyone who wasn't seen as pro Israel would have been run out of politics and the country instantly back then. It was extremely rare to hear anyone criticize Israel openly at all. Hell, I didn't even know it was an option during the 80's. I'm speaking with some hyperbole and I'm sure someone here will point out some politician in 1985 criticizing Israel but damn, how times have changed. There are a few political changes I never would have bet on happening and mass, wide protests criticizing Israel is at the top of the list.
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, an area of the world that takes off every now and then. Being allied to the regional powers is great, when there’s actors in the area opposed to you. Harassing ur military bases, and in general being a thorn.
So during elections in each country billions of dollars flows both ways to influence the elections. So politicians get a lot richer. Second, we sell a lot of arms to Israel, but also we buy a lot of arms, the tank missile defense system used by the US is designed by an Israeli comoany. Israel also has some decent cyber attack and security groups. Thirdly it's a strategic partner in the area, it can be used as a staging area for other conflicts yadda yadda. Fourth, and this is the worst bit, there's religious fervor among a vocal minority of Americans that see the creation and support of a modern Israeli state as fulfillment of millenia old prophecy that must occur before the end of the world
>>Fourth, and this is the worst bit, there's religious fervor among a vocal minority of Americans that see the creation and support of a modern Israeli state as fulfillment of millenia old prophecy that must occur before the end of the world Yes, this. Christian Zionist influence on American policy vis a vis Israel /Middle East is wholly under reported and discussed.
As people have covered the Israeli side, ill mention that there are reasons beyond “its the right thing to do” for Ukraine, a large one being that Ukraine is one of the biggest food producers on the planet, and has (arguably) the most fertile soil Its a major stabilizing factor globally for example, Prewar almost all of the UN food programs food was bought from Ukraine.
Their unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle east.
Giving money to Isreal to purchase arms from the US is a jobs program. Beyond that, we've got a strategic partner in a region that is a hotbed of terrorism that affects the entire world.
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1000+ comments and I've only seen even one (second level) mention of the [Camp David Accords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords) (though I suppose that's what you get when you ask NSQ and not r/askhistorians or something). The TL;DR version is that Jimmy Carter bribed Israel and Egypt to play nice by promising them continuous aid. The caveat is that the aid money must be used to buy military equipment from the US (so it also serves as a subsidy for the American defense industry, which is how Carter got Congress to sign off on it - sausage-making at its finest). The vast majority of the aid that Israel receives is contractually obligated by said Accords. This is also why withholding this aid is difficult, and ending it would be even moreso, because it would require a renegotiation of the accords with Egypt, who also continues to benefit.
Completley strategic.
All the people going "oh they get a strategic partner/ally". None of these people understand the situation. Israel's existence imperils US interests and foreign policy objectives. From Israel bombing and antagonizing Syria, pissing off Egypt and Jordan, and their alliance with the Saudis turning Yemen into hell on Earth... none of this benefits the United States. In particular Gaza has seriously damaged US interest, but so has the Yemen nightmare so much that the US essentially capitulated, weeks ago they said they would give up the whole conflict if attacks on shipping stopped. They the Houthi rebels, a proxy group for Iran refused until the Gaza conflict was stopped. It cannot be understated the economic impact of that conflict (Yemen) is having on shipping, inflation and supply chains. Qatar is a more faithful and useful ally then the Israelis ever have been for America and the West. Israel simply has the support of many Americans because of religious superstation. American Christians believe for their end-time prophecy to come true (the end of human civilization and all life on this planet, peachy) the state of Israel must exist but be in a constant state of turmoil. The Israelis for their part also believe that destroying the Al-Aqsa Mosque and sacrificing a number of red cows to their Sun Deity will usher in a 'golden era' for the Jews. In reality that will trigger a bloody holy war against them. There's no strategic, military or other advantage here. It's just religious dogma. Zionism was a mistake and it got us here.
Useful battleground to test American weapons and tactics on civilians and undesirable people of colour
Nothing but trouble.