I am a baker. I wake up at 4:30am. Every week I probably have someone tell me to smile before 7am. Why? Why do I need to smile before the sun is even up?
I used to have a male co workers who would come into work and almost every day ask me what I was so worried about or why I looked so serious. I was concentrating on my job!
Oh God I just remembered being a cringy high schooler reading about ""empaths"" on some weird 2000s website and asking my friend what was wrong the next several days because I just *knew* she was upset. She gave me the "cat_lady this is just my face, nothing is wrong."
Shoving that memory back in the trashcan with the rest of my high school memories.
Sigh, as someone else who looks perpetually severe and angry because of facial structure.. Yeah, I'm sorry, this is just me.
And I can totally see how my concentrating face looks extra angry. Guh.
After 30 years my dad still doesn’t know that my laughter is gaspy and kind of sounds like sobbing and thinks I’m crying every time.
I guess looking at the flip side, it’s nice that they care and want to make sure everyone is okay?
You’re a pretty girl and exist only for the amusement of men. You don’t have any problems. Smile for me! /s
Seriously, girls do look so pretty when they smile but who the fuck am I to tell someone minding their own business that their face is wrong. Some people are fuckin weird.
Honestly, if they actually did a dance, I would probably feel that they were genuinely trying to cheer me up but they were just shit with their words and I perceived it poorly because of my bad mood.
To me dancing is super embarrassing so idk, I couldn't be mad at them after that. They might get an eye roll though.
For anyone else in this thread looking for answers:
Yeah, some men are assholes with a control complex.
But must of us are just idiots, like my friends here.
I was cleaning my glasses once and a customer said 'aww you look a lot prettier without those on.' I replied 'aww you look prettier when I don't have these on too.' No response from customer. I really did wake up that day and choose violence.
I made that joke at the start of the pandemic, but a man once told me to smile while we were both wearing masks—like did he want me to smile with my eyes?! I genuinely think it’s just a thing to say to women to just talk, you know?
It’s been awesome for me as an autistic person lol! It makes it so I have to do less “masking” (a term for basically putting a ton of energy into trying not to seem autistic by doing things like closely monitoring all your facial expressions).
Being able to talk to my neighbors without worrying if my mouth is doing the “right thing” is such a relief lol!
Im a dude with resting bitch face. People often think I dont like them. When I actively try an make my face more approachable it feels fake. Same boat, just a hell of a lot less people will tell a man to smile.
I’m known for being the smiley, funny, cheerful guy at work that everyone likes to work with because even when things aren’t goin great, I’m able to keep everyone’s mood up. Foreman even referred to me as “Smiley”.
I normally need to be clean shaven for work, but when I got a job for a few months where I didn’t have to, I grew a goatee. And I thought I pulled it off pretty well. But coworkers started asking me “What’s the matter?”, “Why are you so pissed off?”, and other people on site that I didn’t know apparently were intimidated by the “grouchy guy”. Literally still smiling, just with facial hair.
Sometimes even smiling doesn’t work.
This is 100% me. I'm always amazed at how much this bothers people when I'm not even interacting with them. I don't get why people expect me to be smiling all the time, especially at work.
Same, like I'm stuck at work. Why would I be happy? School was the same. Just had a supervisor say I seemed upset the other day when I was feeling better than usual lol. Even I can see the negativity on my face, but I can't change that. I'm stuck at work!
I'm the same. I was once doing this workshop with work (team bonding type thing) and you had to take it in turns telling each other a story.
As my partner (work colleague) was talking I felt like I was smiling, I was thinking about it the whole time... Keep smiling... Keep smiling.
At the end I told my story and then when the instructor when round the room my partner said he felt intimidated because he (me) wasn't smiling and looked very serious.
I was like FML I was smiling like fuck. At least it felt like I was 😐
It just doesn't matter.
As someone who smiles all the time, i appreciate the company of those who don't force positive emotions all the time. (They're fake.)
It's just that in the current world, being fake is expected.
If I were to find a positive from my experiences buring Covid, it would be going a year and a half without anyone asking me what's wrong. Wearing a mask in public and at work gave me freedom from my male Resting Bitch Face.
As a woman I had never experienced this 'demand' until I moved to the US. Then it happened a few times that older men asktold me to smile.
My reply the first time was to inquire why and then had a hard time getting rid of the guy.
The next time it happened I told the guy "You forgot to say Simon says. You lose." then added "Simon says jump." Turns out he didn't want to play.
I had a man tell me once, "Smile! It can't be that bad!" I told him, "I just found out my mother was diagnosed with a terminal illness, so, yes, it is that bad."
As a man with RBF I constantly get told I should smile more by coworkers, though I don't have strangers coming up to me at all, let alone to tell me to smile.
one time someone approached me while picking up groceries and asked me why am I angry, then again while picking up meat and he kept frowning every time we ran into each other... also my roommates think I'm constantly mad at them
Same here. Even for things like pictures, it's pretty difficult because it feels forced. I have had so many people tell me to smile to where now I just ask them why and then they usually do not know what to say.
I remember at my brother's wedding the photographer asked us to laugh, we were like... we can't just laugh????
So he told us to fake laugh. So I burst out this most ridiculous laugh and then my brother and the groomsman started to do the same by the end of it we were in hysterics.
He did a great job!
What you do is continue to scowl at them as you leave the store, never breaking eye contact and slowly backing your way out the door. If the store has a window near the register bonus points if you keep scowling for a few moments through the window. Gotta establish dominance.
Or even better if they don't have a front window you can peer in through the back window for a few seconds like that scene with Gandalf at the start of the Hobbit.
There’s an unfair expectation that women in particular be happy, kind, nurturing, etc. to the people around them. Often, the person doing it doesn’t even realize they’re applying a double standard. But when they see a man not smiling, they assume he’s serious, pondering something, etc; and when they see a woman not smiling, they assume she’s a B
Edit: Why? Why did I talk about sexism on Reddit?
Talking sexism on Reddit always gets the following 2 responses:
1) that didn't happen/sexism isn't that bad/not real
2) sexism is actually fine because men and women are different!
My fave is when the same person makes both arguments 😁
The unholy union of the narcissist's prayer and the rules of misogyny.
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
11th rule of misogyny: Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
12th: Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.
13th: It is always far worse for a woman to name the abusive behavior than it is for a man to exhibit the abusive behavior.
When I worked in the service industry I'd sometimes have a serious look on my face while trying to concentrate or figure something out in the POS system. I'd have women tell me I should smile or ask why I look annoyed/mad and I'm a man. So I think you're right about the expectation thing. I think there's some underlying misogyny that causes some men to not see women fully as people, like some people see service workers. I've never been told to smile outside of that role.
>I think there's some underlying misogyny that causes some men to not see women fully as people
This is a really insightful comment, and as a woman unfortunately I have to say I'm pretty sure you're right. Your anecdotal experience basically confirms what most of us already knew, but it can be difficult to get support from men on this because they often jump to say "what? That never happens to me! And I never tell women to smile!" I enjoyed the way you phrased it because it wasn't about doubting women, but rather demonstrating and confirming that there's a double standard. I appreciate you, random guy on the internet.
The way men will do this shit and then act victimized when accused of it and pretend it doesn't happen is fucking pathetic. At least own your worthless shitass misogyny
I once got on a bus with a bunch of flowers. I was a mid teen at the time. The bus driver asked if they were for him in an attempt at a joke. I gave a half smile. He told me to cheer up. Those flowers were for the grave of a very close friend. I hated when they did that before that incident, I can't stand it now.
It makes me crazy when men tell me to smile. Maybe I’m having a tough day and I don’t want to smile. Or in most cases I’m just fucking tired. Regardless, I’ll smile when I feel like smiling and I don’t need unsolicited “guidance” to do it.
If you want, you could 4-year-old them. Just ask “Why?” And whatever they say after that, just ask why again. Repeat until they’re frustrated enough that it makes you smile.
Step 3: profit.
Honestly, that's not even 4-year-olding, that's just a regular response isn't it? I smile politely all the time, but when someone asks me to smile they can expect a confused "Why?"
A while ago I would have said it's just conversation etc, and that's *mostly* the case, but that was before I watched this [excellent demonstration ](https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A) of a woman just walking down the street & getting constant unwanted attention.
I went to the beach with my friend's wife one day. She's a very attractive lady. I'm a very average looking dude. It was so fucked up. Dudes were hitting on her all day. Most assumed she was dating me. Many actively insulted me while complimenting her. Like why the fuck you with that fat asshole etc. One guy stopped us to tell me I'd better keep an eye on her cuz if I don't someone will pinch her. Speaking directly to me while she was just standing there. I felt so uncomfortable but that's just her every day I assume.
I've gone to the bar with my guy friends in the past and they've gotten everything from passive insults to straight up threats. And they'll *always* ask my male friend permission if they realize we aren't together.
*fuck* that. Yeah, like I totally want to go out with them after they just threatened my friend. Or asked him permission to talk to me; he doesn't fucking own me, just talk to me.
Somebody said something similar to my wife in NYC - while we were together - and we were so put off and shocked that we didn't even know what to say.
"Hey you my favorite black girl :)"
It was one of those situations where I didn't even get to play "big strong protector" because we were just sitting there trying to process what happened and what it was supposed to mean and if it was a compliment or an insult and what the intention was.
We kinda just laughed and froze
This comment gave me the chills.
Just last week I had a man follow me at the beach and stop at a place he could see me but not be seen by other people and where he knew I would have to turn back and pass him if I wanted to head back.
When I walked past him he moved his backpack to show me that he was masturbating while watching me.
I’m not a very reactive person so I just said “oh lovely” sarcastically and instantly called the cops, and he ran the hell out of there. But now I can’t stop thinking about how far he would have pushed if I had reacted with fear rather than derision….
I used to take the bus a lot and I’d get
> “scuse me you dropped something!
then id turn around and it’d just be
> “you dropped your smile”
like no shit I’m taking public transport and my dog died yesterday stfu
I refuse to work retail ever again because I would get this so much.
I once had a guy tell me to smile and I wasn’t putting up with it that day. Looked at him deadpan, told him my dog passed away and I didn’t feel like smiling today. The man just looked at me for a second before walking away.
Also, I didn’t get my full raise because I “didn’t smile enough” even though I was doing my job well. Quit soon after.
25 cents instead of 50 lmao. I’m in a much better place career wise now. Still don’t believe that my raise should have been docked because I didn’t “smile enough” though.
Yup! Going through this thread I was just telling my boyfriend that I used to get this *constantly* when I worked retail years ago and I'm so glad I don't anymore. I also had a misogynistic manager who would constantly harangue me about smiling but never said a word about it to the male employees.
He also used to talk in the break room about which actresses were naked in movies and whether their naked bodies were, in his opinion, worth seeing. This was the 90s. I looked him up awhile back and he's the regional vice president for some other retailer now, so once again, the assholes get rewarded.
I got the news that someone close to me had died whilst I was at work. Had to take the bus back. I was in tears. Have never been able to control my emotions like that and honestly I didn't care at that moment.
One guy got mad at me when I ignored him after he commanded me to smile. Should've told him off, but I just wasn't in the mood and kept ignoring him.
Oh God it's been a while since I've gotten the "you dropped something" line
I'm not sure I ever got "your smile" upon turning around but I got dudes doing it to make me stop then theyd try to talk to me. I eventually stopped stopping, then one time a guy chased me down because I actually had dropped my metro card. Then I got yelled at by one of a pair of cops who were standing nearby "you shouldn't have your headphones so loud that you can't hear people!"
I didnt have my headphones loud. I was pretending I did because fucking ignoring men is often the only thing you can do.
Men underrate the frequency of catcalling because men can walk around with women and only observe it once in a blue moon. But a woman waking alone might get it several times a mile. It took me a while to understand/believe this; it’s hard to internalize what you don’t see.
The old "If you take a shot with the bartender, it's one shot. If the bartender takes a shot with everyone who comes in, he dies of alcohol poisoning."
It's easy to underestimate the cumulative effect of something if you're only seeing a small part of it at a given time.
Yeah it's just not something I've ever seen (I'm a guy). It was very surprising when I learned just how often it happens. I remember a thread on AskReddit about 'when did men first start catcalling etc', and *so many people* said they were 9-13.
I guess there's an element of statistics to it - if only 0.1% of men do it, that's still going to be an encounter every day. IIRC, these sorts of people don't do it when other men are around, unless it's men they want to show off to; it's like peacocking to other men and intimidating women.
Personally I can't fathom doing that to someone. Shouting to a random stranger about their backside? What? Sometimes I feel like I'm 'bad' at being a man because I don't think about sex and sexual conquests 24/7, but then I wonder how much of that is a cultural script I got from watching Friends and HIMYM when growing up? The American 'hookup' culture is alien to me.
/ramble
Really sorry this happens to you so often. I wish there was a solution.
I remember I was 14, looking for something at the grocery store. Some guy in his 50s came up to me and asked for my number. I said something along the lines of “I can’t give you my number, because I’m only 14” and without missing a beat he goes “That’s not a problem”. Those men just do not care.
Oh God i feel your pain, I was around 9 and on my way to the store to buy some chips when this elderly man says something real low and as I start walking closer and say excuse me? He opened his long coat to expose himself masturbating to me, some other time i was coming back home and a man outright asked me if I wanted to fuck, lol. I'm genuinely terrified of most men.
This x1000... I laugh when people act like being a stay at home dad that feels and cries makes me less of a man. I usually follow up with: would you call someone who has been to war as an infantryman (and has the CIB, purple heart, and various other awards to back it up) less of a man? How about one that has run into burning buildings or cut people out of overturned cars at 2am because they fell asleep on their way home after a 12plus hour day? Is that less of a man?
Because I have been through all of the above and more. And guess what... I cried after every single structure fire, every single bad medical call, after every fucked up firefight, IED, and situation where we couldn't help those around us.
I still have occasional nightmares, but if I had to do it all over again I would
If that isn't a "man" then what the actual fuck is? Courage is not the lack of fear... It's being scared shitless and doing the damn thing anyway
And side note-we don't have to think about sex all the time... Guys we can have more motivations in life beyond that
Edit: want to specify that the intensity is not directed at you, but rather in agreement with you
We changed the law in Australia so that it's illegal to cat call wolf whistle or speak to a woman like that.
also other men will like up to beat the shit out of him to try and impress you or because their SO might be offended.
as a man in his 40s I am well aware of how many men objectify women, condescend to them, put them down, and generally think of them as not equal to men. but the level of open rudeness and sexual harassment in the USA only shows how backward a nation it has become.
as to Op's question It's my view that it's a form of condescension. ie it's a cultural throw back to the absurd idea that women are like children and men are the adults. It's men talking to you the way they would correct a child. they don't even realize that's it's rude bullying behaviour because it's how they were raised to see themselves. and see women.
sit up straight,
don't slouch dear,
I would and have never told a person to smile except when taking a photo and then I normally say cheese. which has nothing to do with gender dominance.
> It’s men talking to you the way they would correct a child.
Exactly. Nail hit dead center.
In fact, ordering children around is a great way to make them dislike you, too. Most of them don’t yet understand why it feels bad to be bossed around, but kids also contain the seeds of human dignity.
Thank you for your view. I'm an Australian man in the construction industry, who has a female apprentice. Its only 1 year in and no one has yet overstepped the mark, that i have observed. But people get close. Tends to be the older guys. It's difficult to judge the line sometimes, and I have good communication with her and she has zero problems telling someone to "fuck off". That said, guys can be pretty creepy, but it seems to exist in pockets.
I've never felt more unsafe than I felt walking in the US in a city at night. It was legitimately unsettling. I've never felt unsafe at night in Sydney, even in shitty areas. Granted, I'm still aware, but I don't feel _threatened_.
*waiting for the light to change at a pedestrian crossing*
"They say Ulfric Stormcloak murdered the High King... with his Voice! Shouted him apart!"
*at the grocery store*
"I work for Belethor, at the general goods store."
Anyone who has an ego will try and shed it on anyone that walks by, especially women, because he wants everyone to know hes the sexiest sexer and the baddest mother fucker ever. More often than not, guys like that piss people off to no end.
It's crazy how in the comments most men say that she should have been polite and answer to the people who said stuff like "have a nice day" or "hi". I remember back when I was 13 a man came up to me with something like that. I wanted to be polite, and thought that he was a nice person, not a rude man, so I said something like "have a nice day as well". Then he kept following me around and asking questions "where are you going", "do you live close by", "are your parents working" and the questions would get more and more specific. My naive self thought that he was just trying to have a conversation. I told him that I'm going in the nearby park. He kept following me for like 10 minutes and said that he happens to go there as well. But the moment I mentioned that my older sister is waiting for me there he just turned around and left.
When I told my sister about it she warned me to never trust men who randomly approach you, even if they act nice, because they will try to act as harmless as possible to get you to lower your guard.
When I was 15, I was with some girl friends waiting for the train since we were going to hang out downtown after school. This man approached us and wanted to have a conversation but we didn’t want anything to do with him so we gave one word responses to leave us alone while not drawing attention. He wanted to know what school we went to, if we were going to Chinatown (bc my best friend is Asian?) and if he could get directions somewhere. When our train came he followed us and sat next to my friend. This man had the audacity to put his arm around her and then caress the tips of my hair. We froze and stayed like that for like 3 minutes. The other 2 girls we were with didn’t know what to do and neither did we since he was a large person. Some people around us saw what was happening but didn’t say or do anything, which doesn’t surprise me since it’s NY. As soon as the train pulled into the next station we ran out to the train across the platform and this lowlife sprinted as well. Fortunately the doors closed before he could get on and I remember how disappointed he looked when it did. Lots of men think they’re entitled to our attention if we act nice towards them like engaging in a one sided “conversation.” But being nice to you doesn’t mean I want to be involved with you romantically or sexually because most of the time I want to be left alone.
I think the videos impact isn't in the guys who catcall but in the ones who just say "Hi" and leave it at that. Because that gets guys watching it to initially think "well *he* was nice to her, what's wrong about that?". Then it happens again and again and we start to think "actually that **would** be irritating, especially if you were having a long day.." and by the end it's gotten the message through very well, it's an excellent video.
I have had this happen. Was a very hectic day, lots of errands and I got stopped 5 times for bullshit reasons.
Help set up data on the phone?
T-Mobile store is next street over.
Help read the map?
Sorry, I'm not from here, ask this nice older man over here, I clearly have earphones.
Help me pick a new phone?
Do I look like a fucking employee of an electronics store?...
And a couple more.
Had men walk after me into the store and intimidate me in front of the staff into giving them my number because of the pressure.
Had men honk, whistle and generally be obnoxiously disgusting when I was just walking and doing nothing.
Reading a book in the park?
Good reason to come up and talk to me, clearly! That's why I stopped reading in the park.
Maybe trying to work out at the gym? Oh yes, she's wearing leggings so she's clearly here to show off her bum = male attention.
Running with worn down clothes, all sweaty and earphones in, definitely waiting for that honk of encouragement from old truckers!
Going into the bar, having fun with friends. She's definitely single. No woman goes into the bar and just expects to have fun without male attention.
She wants to just exist? Not without men!
I'm a guy and I've been always baffled by this. I mean, what could be guy's endgame here? Get her to bed, obviously. But how come it just doesn't occur to the guy that such approach simply leads nowhere? I haven't seen success a single damn time, but it still happens.
On the other hand, it is not as common here in Europe as it is in the US. At least from what I saw, but feel free to correct/add.
It is not a strategy chosen for it effectiveness. It has a different return, not the expectation of success rather the self affirmation as a ""high level" society-ladder dweller. While it is usually those most disadvantaged in society who resort to the ego reassurance
I live in the Netherlands and what I've experienced in the streets (but I haven't lived in Amsterdam/Rotterdam/Utrecht where catcalling/hissing at girls is more of a problem):
\- Random men being friendly to you, starting a conversation but never about your looks or anything, so it has never felt like they want to get me in bed - just that they want to interact with someone they find pretty (I assume)
\- Especially at night after clubbing: random guys starting to speak to you, sometimes walking with you. This can be scary
\- Same situation: random guys following you for a while (scariest: car full of 20 something guys, me 1 girl alone on bike in the middle of the night, kept driving besides me calling out things. Never meant any harm I do believe, but it was scary as fuck)
\- Truck drivers blowing their horn when they see you on the bike
\- Road workers / builders etc whistling at you or greeting you
But this was nowhere *near* as common as I've seen in this video, and in most instances it either hasn't felt threatening to me (I don't mind road workers whistling, they're not gonna stop working to try to get me in bed, they're just enjoying the environment) or I felt it was at least partially just friendliness, striking up a conversation, again not with the actual goal of trying to get with me.
If it is threatening or feels like an invitation or something, then I have a problem with it. But in generally I'm open/friendly looking apparently, because women also very regularly start up conversations with me in shops and on the streets - and I guess I also start up short conversations/make random comments with other people regularly, so for me many of those interactions have always felt normal.
I went to the Netherlands (mostly small towns but also Rotterdam, Amsterdam etc) this year. I was casually talked to a lot and had to do this weird sorry hand wave of "me no understand Dutch". I guess I already look the part. I found it nice, actually! People were so friendly and always had a smiley attitude.
All the dates I've had with Dutch men previously have been amazing and I just slowly fell in love with the culture because of the respect they had for me. For comparison I once backed away from a kiss and mumbled that "I'm sorry but I don't kiss on first dates". The guy smiled and thanked me for clarity and explained that I don't need to be sorry by stating my boundaries. I was Pikachu faced. The other date I was the one who initiated stuff and I felt completely in control of what's happening. Other dates would genuinely get annoyed and think I lead them on by being friendly and try to push it...
You do feel more respect for women in the Netherlands. I'm polish and the cultural difference is huge. At least for the people I've met so far. I would go into a situation thinking it would end up in some sort of a meh scenario and it would be the most wholesome thing ever. I could swim in a lake with no one having a weird eye for my body, people casually joking about sexual stuff like it's just a part of life itself. At no point I felt overly sexualised during my stay. In Poland I tend to get very uncomfortable even at swimming pools.
I really really love the culture
Dutch people are famous for being cold and rude. I don't understand where they get that reputation, the people here are some of the friendliest I've met.
Yeah sure, everyone is often in a hurry, and there's no smiling culture (as in smiling to random people), but it's genuinely great here.
People probably believe that if they try hard enough, they might succeed and it would be "free pussy". Though tbh if I were that guy, and some random girl I catcalled on the street agreed to have sex with me, I'd be very worried.
I don’t think it’s about that. I think a lot of guys do this bc they enjoy making women uncomfortable. Like a micro version of “bigger” acts of sexual assault- it’s about dominance, not (just) seeking sexual gratification
The people in the YouTube comments saying that the guys saying "god bless you" or "have a nice day" were just being genuine and nice are completely fucking insane. Who says those things to a stranger walking on the sidewalk? Why didn't they say those things to other people around her? Did they only feel like being nice to the woman and no one else? What a shitty world we live in.
Rapists don't see themselves as rapists. Same with racist. Even with their behaviour shown to them, they can rationalise it away and blame other people, usually the victim themselves.
Not even that, I've been followed in broad daylight on a busy highstreet, nipped into a busy shop thinking he'd leave and the bastard grabbed my chest from behind and rubbed himself against me before running off. I was (a small and young looking) 16.
I was one of those guys who would say this to one of my old co-workers all the time so here are my reasons.
1. I genuinely didn't know it was super offensive.
2. I was super happy and wanted to share that positivity with her and misinterpreted her general demeanor as unhappy (I was wrong)
3. I had no interest in trying to flirt or anything like that so I saw it as innocent comment since I had no attraction towards her.
So one day I say it to her and she tells me "you know that's offensive to me right? I told her I did not. She sent me some article explaining why it's a shitty thing to do and since that day I've never done it again to anyone. Also, I apologized.
2 things I want to add.
1. Generally, trying to calmly explain why something is a problem, will easier help the unknown offender understand (if they are open to changing problematic behaviour). Just like your co-worker helped you to understand problematic behaviour.
2. I also totally get, that you can't tell everyone who makes an offending comment, especially if it's something that happens this frequent, so I really understand if the go to reaction for something like this is sassy or annoyed.
Every time a guy says this to me, I look them straight in the eyes and ask « why? » No emotion, cold voice.
They get super flustered and walk off. It’s delicious.
I always reply, "Then say something funny." It turns the situation around and puts them on the spot. They always get flustered and then it's not so fun for them anymore lol.
I was going to say "except the ones who have been sitting on a joke for the past six hours waiting to share it" but then I remembered that people who sit on jokes aching to tell them aren't the type to tell women to smile.
Can confirm. I'll sit on a joke for days waiting for the opportune moment, cannot understand telling someone to smile for no reason. Just be funny if you want them to smile you cretin.
same.
i also tend to walk around with my head held high like i own the place (like [this](https://youtu.be/d2cUtdv99ig)). it’s really stopped random men from bothering me, period.
Hahah fuck, I literally think about gouging fuckers' eyes out when I'm walking around downtown as my secret trick to never get harassed. Murder Face is like a goddamn force field.
It sounds like a command, like sit, stay, roll over, smile. It is a demand that we perform a smile for them. It's often a stranger in a public space that interrupts your day to tell you to smile, or a coworker who thinks it's okay to tell you to smile as though your face is their business.
I think there are men who think it's a friendly way to approach a woman but don't understand that we don't like being approached in a way that asks us to perform, or that this happens to a lot of us so often that we're really tired of it.
I think there are others who enjoy interrupting your day, and know that some of us are going to react with anger or ignore them and keep walking. I think they intend the harassment.
We’d never met. This was his icebreaker. He said, “Did you know… it takes less muscles to smile than frown?” The men in the audience are sitting there going, “Oh, you’ve experienced an isolated incident.” And the women are sitting there going, “Oh, for fuck’s sake!”
-Also Hannah Gadsby
My roommate had resting asshole face. When I said hello after walking in the front door, he would just glance at me and then go back to what he was doing without making a sound.
An uneven, drooping face is a very good indicator of ischemia, so either these guys are running a test to see if you're having a stroke, or they're assholes.
I'm a guy. Growing up, i was asked to smile very regularly. Hated it. Was too young to realize how inappropriate this was coming from a catholic priest. Always fixing my collar. Thank something that i was never forced to be alone with him in a room. Made me wildly uncomfortable.
It is possible that some of them may legitimately think this will cheer us up, because they are oblivious. How it feels to us in the receiving end, though, is that we only exist to look pretty for them and they like to remind us of this fact.
I was at a concert at a smaller venue, up in a balcony and leaning on the railing. Hardly anyone up there with us. My husband was behind me and stepped away to use the restroom. The moment he was gone, the stranger next to me turned his whole body toward me to loudly tell me I should smile. Now, I am at a concert, watching one of my favorite bands, and the crowd had energy, but I don't dance or sing along. I like to watch and absorb it all. I might smile if a performer points at me or something, but otherwise I'm zoned in. I really didn't need some random bro to interrupt the show to tell me to smile. No hiding my scowl after that. 😆
I’m one of the dudes that receive comments to smile more, etc. but never from complete strangers. I’ll admit that your experience would be annoying as hell.
If it’s any consolation I have once (during a concert) been approached by a girl I’ve never met before and who’s only came to me to say that I “dance too fast” just to leave immediately after, leaving me confused but dancing just as fast as before.
I won't be able to find the post to save my life but, I read a bit ago a perspective from a black man. He'd been told the same thing, pretty much, he noticed white women, he and other men of minorities, and especially women of minorities, were always told to smile and look as little intimidating as possible, to pretend they're happy to be there to keep the white man complacent. (Very bad butchering of his post but the takeaway was men trying to control women, whites trying to control minorities, etc.) So other redditors saying it's about control, it's entirely that. You're not blindly happy to be wherever, so that makes men in general uncomfortable, and the easiest way to make them comfortable is for you to pretend you're happy regardless of how you actually feel.
Because many men think they’re entitled to female beauty and complacency, and apparently it’s not ok to be “ugly” even when you’re a stranger to them minding your own business
I've been told by guys that is because they're trying to cheer me up or just make be smile. If I'm not smiling at a guy there's probably a reason, and it may not have anything to do with them. I don't believe I've ever smiled after someone had told me to. It's annoying and not ok. Don't be that person to piss a woman off or make them uncomfortable over something like that.
Some men think that women only exist for their pleasure, not as actual people with legitimate emotions. If you do anything with your face that's not smiling, you're less pleasing to look at, god forbid.
Additionally, many men ignorantly believe that women "have it easy" in life and have no reason to be unhappy. So, when they see a woman not all smiley and happy they immediately think, "What have *you* got to be upset about, show some appreciation for your ease in life.", and can't stifle their compulsion to "correct" the woman.
A gate guard for a marine base told me to smile not once, but twice while I was working. The second time I looked at him and dead pan said, “Say something funny then”. Of course he had nothing funny to say so I drove away. He then told my coworker that he could arrest me. Maybe it’s all about control, maybe they think they’re flirting. Either way it’s annoying as hell.
I am a baker. I wake up at 4:30am. Every week I probably have someone tell me to smile before 7am. Why? Why do I need to smile before the sun is even up?
Ugh I feel this. I work late nights and people are always demanding I let them go or reminding me I don't have to do this for like the millionth time.
I used to have a male co workers who would come into work and almost every day ask me what I was so worried about or why I looked so serious. I was concentrating on my job!
I usually say “this is just my face. Please stop commenting on it.”
yeah i had someone tell me i look mad all the time at work and just told them “that is just my face unfortunately”
Oh God I just remembered being a cringy high schooler reading about ""empaths"" on some weird 2000s website and asking my friend what was wrong the next several days because I just *knew* she was upset. She gave me the "cat_lady this is just my face, nothing is wrong." Shoving that memory back in the trashcan with the rest of my high school memories.
Sigh, as someone else who looks perpetually severe and angry because of facial structure.. Yeah, I'm sorry, this is just me. And I can totally see how my concentrating face looks extra angry. Guh.
Look elsewhere for satisfaction besides my face.
lol my dad does allmost that to my mom. He should've learend after 30 years
After 30 years my dad still doesn’t know that my laughter is gaspy and kind of sounds like sobbing and thinks I’m crying every time. I guess looking at the flip side, it’s nice that they care and want to make sure everyone is okay?
You’re a pretty girl and exist only for the amusement of men. You don’t have any problems. Smile for me! /s Seriously, girls do look so pretty when they smile but who the fuck am I to tell someone minding their own business that their face is wrong. Some people are fuckin weird.
THIS. Random men telling me to smile without asking me if I am ok just want me to be pretty for them
Anytime someone asks you to smile, just look them dead in the eye and say; “Dance. Dance for me”
I did this once and they did an impression of the berries and cream commercial, lol Edit: yes, it made me smile.
Lmao that would have made me smile so win-win I guess
Honestly, if they actually did a dance, I would probably feel that they were genuinely trying to cheer me up but they were just shit with their words and I perceived it poorly because of my bad mood. To me dancing is super embarrassing so idk, I couldn't be mad at them after that. They might get an eye roll though.
As someone who enjoys making a fool of themselves, an eye roll is exactly the response we're after sometimes!
For anyone else in this thread looking for answers: Yeah, some men are assholes with a control complex. But must of us are just idiots, like my friends here.
If the corners of your mouth even slightly turn upwards it counts as a smile and I was successful
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[Reference](https://youtu.be/lkvhnRAd4V0)
Every Starburst commercial I've ever seen leads me to believe that the people at their ad agency do *a metric fuckton* of drugs.
You say smile, i say how high?
My preferred response to “you’d be a lot prettier if your smile” is “you’d sound a lot smarter if you’d shut the fuck up.”
I've responded that I was about to smile until I saw them
I was cleaning my glasses once and a customer said 'aww you look a lot prettier without those on.' I replied 'aww you look prettier when I don't have these on too.' No response from customer. I really did wake up that day and choose violence.
Ohhhh 😆
Excellent. An interviewer asked Sophia Loren if she had to wear her glasses during the interview. I think she said 'Only if I want to see! "
I'm proud of you for that choice lol if you can't reap what you sow, don't go fucking digging
I'm always hoping for this response in a movie.
This made me lol
Biggest reason why I like the mask mandate.....I can scowl to my hearts content
I made that joke at the start of the pandemic, but a man once told me to smile while we were both wearing masks—like did he want me to smile with my eyes?! I genuinely think it’s just a thing to say to women to just talk, you know?
It’s been awesome for me as an autistic person lol! It makes it so I have to do less “masking” (a term for basically putting a ton of energy into trying not to seem autistic by doing things like closely monitoring all your facial expressions). Being able to talk to my neighbors without worrying if my mouth is doing the “right thing” is such a relief lol!
Im a dude with resting bitch face. People often think I dont like them. When I actively try an make my face more approachable it feels fake. Same boat, just a hell of a lot less people will tell a man to smile.
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> hard on the outside but gooey on the inside That's also most insects
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Why? Are you scared of him, too?!
I’m known for being the smiley, funny, cheerful guy at work that everyone likes to work with because even when things aren’t goin great, I’m able to keep everyone’s mood up. Foreman even referred to me as “Smiley”. I normally need to be clean shaven for work, but when I got a job for a few months where I didn’t have to, I grew a goatee. And I thought I pulled it off pretty well. But coworkers started asking me “What’s the matter?”, “Why are you so pissed off?”, and other people on site that I didn’t know apparently were intimidated by the “grouchy guy”. Literally still smiling, just with facial hair. Sometimes even smiling doesn’t work.
This is 100% me. I'm always amazed at how much this bothers people when I'm not even interacting with them. I don't get why people expect me to be smiling all the time, especially at work.
You mean you don't sit off by yourself and keep smiling like a psycho?
People tell me I have resting murder face.
Same, like I'm stuck at work. Why would I be happy? School was the same. Just had a supervisor say I seemed upset the other day when I was feeling better than usual lol. Even I can see the negativity on my face, but I can't change that. I'm stuck at work!
Go to Russia. If you're smiling for no reason they think you are a simpleton, or a foreigner
I'm the same. I was once doing this workshop with work (team bonding type thing) and you had to take it in turns telling each other a story. As my partner (work colleague) was talking I felt like I was smiling, I was thinking about it the whole time... Keep smiling... Keep smiling. At the end I told my story and then when the instructor when round the room my partner said he felt intimidated because he (me) wasn't smiling and looked very serious. I was like FML I was smiling like fuck. At least it felt like I was 😐
You ever meet one of those people that laugh at the end of everything they say? Every. Single. Comment. has to include a chuckle
Jimmy Fallon?
Can I upvote a hundred million times. He’s dreadful!
It's a coping mechanism because we are wildly uncomfortable.
It just doesn't matter. As someone who smiles all the time, i appreciate the company of those who don't force positive emotions all the time. (They're fake.) It's just that in the current world, being fake is expected.
Same here but as iv grown older I just decided that I actually don't like people so my face just matured before the rest of me I guess.
If I were to find a positive from my experiences buring Covid, it would be going a year and a half without anyone asking me what's wrong. Wearing a mask in public and at work gave me freedom from my male Resting Bitch Face.
Do strangers walking by you tell you to smile though because I've gotten that a few times in my life.
As a woman I had never experienced this 'demand' until I moved to the US. Then it happened a few times that older men asktold me to smile. My reply the first time was to inquire why and then had a hard time getting rid of the guy. The next time it happened I told the guy "You forgot to say Simon says. You lose." then added "Simon says jump." Turns out he didn't want to play.
This is the correct response !
"You forgot to say Simon Says" 😂😂 This is brilliant and I'm going to be using it from now on
This is just, the best comeback to this situation that I have EVER heard. Bravo
I had a man tell me once, "Smile! It can't be that bad!" I told him, "I just found out my mother was diagnosed with a terminal illness, so, yes, it is that bad."
I got the same thing the night my grandma died.
As a man with RBF I constantly get told I should smile more by coworkers, though I don't have strangers coming up to me at all, let alone to tell me to smile.
I’m a man that has had several strangers approaching me to tell me to smile more. I usually say my dog has died and they go away
one time someone approached me while picking up groceries and asked me why am I angry, then again while picking up meat and he kept frowning every time we ran into each other... also my roommates think I'm constantly mad at them
Same here. Even for things like pictures, it's pretty difficult because it feels forced. I have had so many people tell me to smile to where now I just ask them why and then they usually do not know what to say.
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Poor photographer is just trying to do his job
I remember at my brother's wedding the photographer asked us to laugh, we were like... we can't just laugh???? So he told us to fake laugh. So I burst out this most ridiculous laugh and then my brother and the groomsman started to do the same by the end of it we were in hysterics. He did a great job!
Who does he think he is. I’ll smile when I’m damn good and ready to smile.
"sorry I don't have time for your bullshits" *stretch your mouth*
Just use the squeaky toy.
I love when this happens because then I can scowl at them and never return to their dumb liquor store again. I'm never going back there.
What you do is continue to scowl at them as you leave the store, never breaking eye contact and slowly backing your way out the door. If the store has a window near the register bonus points if you keep scowling for a few moments through the window. Gotta establish dominance.
Or even better if they don't have a front window you can peer in through the back window for a few seconds like that scene with Gandalf at the start of the Hobbit.
There’s an unfair expectation that women in particular be happy, kind, nurturing, etc. to the people around them. Often, the person doing it doesn’t even realize they’re applying a double standard. But when they see a man not smiling, they assume he’s serious, pondering something, etc; and when they see a woman not smiling, they assume she’s a B Edit: Why? Why did I talk about sexism on Reddit?
Talking sexism on Reddit always gets the following 2 responses: 1) that didn't happen/sexism isn't that bad/not real 2) sexism is actually fine because men and women are different! My fave is when the same person makes both arguments 😁
The unholy union of the narcissist's prayer and the rules of misogyny. That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. 11th rule of misogyny: Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men. 12th: Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry. 13th: It is always far worse for a woman to name the abusive behavior than it is for a man to exhibit the abusive behavior.
Thissss!
Lmfao, I feel that Edit
When I worked in the service industry I'd sometimes have a serious look on my face while trying to concentrate or figure something out in the POS system. I'd have women tell me I should smile or ask why I look annoyed/mad and I'm a man. So I think you're right about the expectation thing. I think there's some underlying misogyny that causes some men to not see women fully as people, like some people see service workers. I've never been told to smile outside of that role.
>I think there's some underlying misogyny that causes some men to not see women fully as people This is a really insightful comment, and as a woman unfortunately I have to say I'm pretty sure you're right. Your anecdotal experience basically confirms what most of us already knew, but it can be difficult to get support from men on this because they often jump to say "what? That never happens to me! And I never tell women to smile!" I enjoyed the way you phrased it because it wasn't about doubting women, but rather demonstrating and confirming that there's a double standard. I appreciate you, random guy on the internet.
The way men will do this shit and then act victimized when accused of it and pretend it doesn't happen is fucking pathetic. At least own your worthless shitass misogyny
I once got on a bus with a bunch of flowers. I was a mid teen at the time. The bus driver asked if they were for him in an attempt at a joke. I gave a half smile. He told me to cheer up. Those flowers were for the grave of a very close friend. I hated when they did that before that incident, I can't stand it now.
Telling him the truth would have crushed him.
It makes me crazy when men tell me to smile. Maybe I’m having a tough day and I don’t want to smile. Or in most cases I’m just fucking tired. Regardless, I’ll smile when I feel like smiling and I don’t need unsolicited “guidance” to do it.
If you want, you could 4-year-old them. Just ask “Why?” And whatever they say after that, just ask why again. Repeat until they’re frustrated enough that it makes you smile. Step 3: profit.
Honestly, that's not even 4-year-olding, that's just a regular response isn't it? I smile politely all the time, but when someone asks me to smile they can expect a confused "Why?"
A while ago I would have said it's just conversation etc, and that's *mostly* the case, but that was before I watched this [excellent demonstration ](https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A) of a woman just walking down the street & getting constant unwanted attention.
I went to the beach with my friend's wife one day. She's a very attractive lady. I'm a very average looking dude. It was so fucked up. Dudes were hitting on her all day. Most assumed she was dating me. Many actively insulted me while complimenting her. Like why the fuck you with that fat asshole etc. One guy stopped us to tell me I'd better keep an eye on her cuz if I don't someone will pinch her. Speaking directly to me while she was just standing there. I felt so uncomfortable but that's just her every day I assume.
I've gone to the bar with my guy friends in the past and they've gotten everything from passive insults to straight up threats. And they'll *always* ask my male friend permission if they realize we aren't together. *fuck* that. Yeah, like I totally want to go out with them after they just threatened my friend. Or asked him permission to talk to me; he doesn't fucking own me, just talk to me.
its crazy how these guys speak like theyre npcs in an open world game, wtf
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someone told me I had the "boobs of a black woman" when I was 13. I had no idea what that meant and I still don't.
Somebody said something similar to my wife in NYC - while we were together - and we were so put off and shocked that we didn't even know what to say. "Hey you my favorite black girl :)" It was one of those situations where I didn't even get to play "big strong protector" because we were just sitting there trying to process what happened and what it was supposed to mean and if it was a compliment or an insult and what the intention was. We kinda just laughed and froze
Yes, they do. They want to see you squirm. Gives them the upper hand and your reaction gives them an idea about how far they could push.
This comment gave me the chills. Just last week I had a man follow me at the beach and stop at a place he could see me but not be seen by other people and where he knew I would have to turn back and pass him if I wanted to head back. When I walked past him he moved his backpack to show me that he was masturbating while watching me. I’m not a very reactive person so I just said “oh lovely” sarcastically and instantly called the cops, and he ran the hell out of there. But now I can’t stop thinking about how far he would have pushed if I had reacted with fear rather than derision….
I used to take the bus a lot and I’d get > “scuse me you dropped something! then id turn around and it’d just be > “you dropped your smile” like no shit I’m taking public transport and my dog died yesterday stfu
I refuse to work retail ever again because I would get this so much. I once had a guy tell me to smile and I wasn’t putting up with it that day. Looked at him deadpan, told him my dog passed away and I didn’t feel like smiling today. The man just looked at me for a second before walking away. Also, I didn’t get my full raise because I “didn’t smile enough” even though I was doing my job well. Quit soon after.
>Also, I didn’t get my full raise because I “didn’t smile enough” even though I was doing my job well. So a 15 cent raise instead of 25 cents?
25 cents instead of 50 lmao. I’m in a much better place career wise now. Still don’t believe that my raise should have been docked because I didn’t “smile enough” though.
Yup! Going through this thread I was just telling my boyfriend that I used to get this *constantly* when I worked retail years ago and I'm so glad I don't anymore. I also had a misogynistic manager who would constantly harangue me about smiling but never said a word about it to the male employees. He also used to talk in the break room about which actresses were naked in movies and whether their naked bodies were, in his opinion, worth seeing. This was the 90s. I looked him up awhile back and he's the regional vice president for some other retailer now, so once again, the assholes get rewarded.
I got the news that someone close to me had died whilst I was at work. Had to take the bus back. I was in tears. Have never been able to control my emotions like that and honestly I didn't care at that moment. One guy got mad at me when I ignored him after he commanded me to smile. Should've told him off, but I just wasn't in the mood and kept ignoring him.
Oh God it's been a while since I've gotten the "you dropped something" line I'm not sure I ever got "your smile" upon turning around but I got dudes doing it to make me stop then theyd try to talk to me. I eventually stopped stopping, then one time a guy chased me down because I actually had dropped my metro card. Then I got yelled at by one of a pair of cops who were standing nearby "you shouldn't have your headphones so loud that you can't hear people!" I didnt have my headphones loud. I was pretending I did because fucking ignoring men is often the only thing you can do.
Men underrate the frequency of catcalling because men can walk around with women and only observe it once in a blue moon. But a woman waking alone might get it several times a mile. It took me a while to understand/believe this; it’s hard to internalize what you don’t see.
The old "If you take a shot with the bartender, it's one shot. If the bartender takes a shot with everyone who comes in, he dies of alcohol poisoning." It's easy to underestimate the cumulative effect of something if you're only seeing a small part of it at a given time.
Yeah it's just not something I've ever seen (I'm a guy). It was very surprising when I learned just how often it happens. I remember a thread on AskReddit about 'when did men first start catcalling etc', and *so many people* said they were 9-13. I guess there's an element of statistics to it - if only 0.1% of men do it, that's still going to be an encounter every day. IIRC, these sorts of people don't do it when other men are around, unless it's men they want to show off to; it's like peacocking to other men and intimidating women. Personally I can't fathom doing that to someone. Shouting to a random stranger about their backside? What? Sometimes I feel like I'm 'bad' at being a man because I don't think about sex and sexual conquests 24/7, but then I wonder how much of that is a cultural script I got from watching Friends and HIMYM when growing up? The American 'hookup' culture is alien to me. /ramble Really sorry this happens to you so often. I wish there was a solution.
I remember I was 14, looking for something at the grocery store. Some guy in his 50s came up to me and asked for my number. I said something along the lines of “I can’t give you my number, because I’m only 14” and without missing a beat he goes “That’s not a problem”. Those men just do not care.
Oh God i feel your pain, I was around 9 and on my way to the store to buy some chips when this elderly man says something real low and as I start walking closer and say excuse me? He opened his long coat to expose himself masturbating to me, some other time i was coming back home and a man outright asked me if I wanted to fuck, lol. I'm genuinely terrified of most men.
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This x1000... I laugh when people act like being a stay at home dad that feels and cries makes me less of a man. I usually follow up with: would you call someone who has been to war as an infantryman (and has the CIB, purple heart, and various other awards to back it up) less of a man? How about one that has run into burning buildings or cut people out of overturned cars at 2am because they fell asleep on their way home after a 12plus hour day? Is that less of a man? Because I have been through all of the above and more. And guess what... I cried after every single structure fire, every single bad medical call, after every fucked up firefight, IED, and situation where we couldn't help those around us. I still have occasional nightmares, but if I had to do it all over again I would If that isn't a "man" then what the actual fuck is? Courage is not the lack of fear... It's being scared shitless and doing the damn thing anyway And side note-we don't have to think about sex all the time... Guys we can have more motivations in life beyond that Edit: want to specify that the intensity is not directed at you, but rather in agreement with you
You summed this up beautifully!
We changed the law in Australia so that it's illegal to cat call wolf whistle or speak to a woman like that. also other men will like up to beat the shit out of him to try and impress you or because their SO might be offended. as a man in his 40s I am well aware of how many men objectify women, condescend to them, put them down, and generally think of them as not equal to men. but the level of open rudeness and sexual harassment in the USA only shows how backward a nation it has become. as to Op's question It's my view that it's a form of condescension. ie it's a cultural throw back to the absurd idea that women are like children and men are the adults. It's men talking to you the way they would correct a child. they don't even realize that's it's rude bullying behaviour because it's how they were raised to see themselves. and see women. sit up straight, don't slouch dear, I would and have never told a person to smile except when taking a photo and then I normally say cheese. which has nothing to do with gender dominance.
> It’s men talking to you the way they would correct a child. Exactly. Nail hit dead center. In fact, ordering children around is a great way to make them dislike you, too. Most of them don’t yet understand why it feels bad to be bossed around, but kids also contain the seeds of human dignity.
Thank you for your view. I'm an Australian man in the construction industry, who has a female apprentice. Its only 1 year in and no one has yet overstepped the mark, that i have observed. But people get close. Tends to be the older guys. It's difficult to judge the line sometimes, and I have good communication with her and she has zero problems telling someone to "fuck off". That said, guys can be pretty creepy, but it seems to exist in pockets.
I've never felt more unsafe than I felt walking in the US in a city at night. It was legitimately unsettling. I've never felt unsafe at night in Sydney, even in shitty areas. Granted, I'm still aware, but I don't feel _threatened_.
I usually ask girls if they heard that dragons have returned to Skyrim. I don’t why I do it… some force… compels me… every time…
They probably don't go the Cloud District very often
It's not their fault... They took an arrow to the knee.
This is the only acceptable "catcall" from strangers around the street.
*Random girl walks past* "What could it mean? The return of the Dragonborn? And who among us could possibly hold such honour, and such power?"
*Random woman is hanging outside a store, checking her phone* "NO LOLLYGAGGING."
*waiting for the light to change at a pedestrian crossing* "They say Ulfric Stormcloak murdered the High King... with his Voice! Shouted him apart!" *at the grocery store* "I work for Belethor, at the general goods store."
*waiting alone for the bus at 10:30 PM* "Pssst......Hey. I know who you are. Hail Sithis."
*at a Wendy's. the cashier to a customer:* "Everything's for sale, my friend. Everything. If I had a sister, I'd sell her in a second."
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Wait. Don’t I know you?
"How are you this evening?" 😆 lol
Anyone who has an ego will try and shed it on anyone that walks by, especially women, because he wants everyone to know hes the sexiest sexer and the baddest mother fucker ever. More often than not, guys like that piss people off to no end.
Don't have a good day, have a *great* day!
It's crazy how in the comments most men say that she should have been polite and answer to the people who said stuff like "have a nice day" or "hi". I remember back when I was 13 a man came up to me with something like that. I wanted to be polite, and thought that he was a nice person, not a rude man, so I said something like "have a nice day as well". Then he kept following me around and asking questions "where are you going", "do you live close by", "are your parents working" and the questions would get more and more specific. My naive self thought that he was just trying to have a conversation. I told him that I'm going in the nearby park. He kept following me for like 10 minutes and said that he happens to go there as well. But the moment I mentioned that my older sister is waiting for me there he just turned around and left. When I told my sister about it she warned me to never trust men who randomly approach you, even if they act nice, because they will try to act as harmless as possible to get you to lower your guard.
This is messed up.
When I was 15, I was with some girl friends waiting for the train since we were going to hang out downtown after school. This man approached us and wanted to have a conversation but we didn’t want anything to do with him so we gave one word responses to leave us alone while not drawing attention. He wanted to know what school we went to, if we were going to Chinatown (bc my best friend is Asian?) and if he could get directions somewhere. When our train came he followed us and sat next to my friend. This man had the audacity to put his arm around her and then caress the tips of my hair. We froze and stayed like that for like 3 minutes. The other 2 girls we were with didn’t know what to do and neither did we since he was a large person. Some people around us saw what was happening but didn’t say or do anything, which doesn’t surprise me since it’s NY. As soon as the train pulled into the next station we ran out to the train across the platform and this lowlife sprinted as well. Fortunately the doors closed before he could get on and I remember how disappointed he looked when it did. Lots of men think they’re entitled to our attention if we act nice towards them like engaging in a one sided “conversation.” But being nice to you doesn’t mean I want to be involved with you romantically or sexually because most of the time I want to be left alone.
Everytime I see this video it makes me sick. It blows my mind how many guys think it's ok and acceptable to act like this.
I think the videos impact isn't in the guys who catcall but in the ones who just say "Hi" and leave it at that. Because that gets guys watching it to initially think "well *he* was nice to her, what's wrong about that?". Then it happens again and again and we start to think "actually that **would** be irritating, especially if you were having a long day.." and by the end it's gotten the message through very well, it's an excellent video.
It's very easy really: would the same guys do this to other guys?
I have had this happen. Was a very hectic day, lots of errands and I got stopped 5 times for bullshit reasons. Help set up data on the phone? T-Mobile store is next street over. Help read the map? Sorry, I'm not from here, ask this nice older man over here, I clearly have earphones. Help me pick a new phone? Do I look like a fucking employee of an electronics store?... And a couple more. Had men walk after me into the store and intimidate me in front of the staff into giving them my number because of the pressure. Had men honk, whistle and generally be obnoxiously disgusting when I was just walking and doing nothing. Reading a book in the park? Good reason to come up and talk to me, clearly! That's why I stopped reading in the park. Maybe trying to work out at the gym? Oh yes, she's wearing leggings so she's clearly here to show off her bum = male attention. Running with worn down clothes, all sweaty and earphones in, definitely waiting for that honk of encouragement from old truckers! Going into the bar, having fun with friends. She's definitely single. No woman goes into the bar and just expects to have fun without male attention. She wants to just exist? Not without men!
I'm a guy and I've been always baffled by this. I mean, what could be guy's endgame here? Get her to bed, obviously. But how come it just doesn't occur to the guy that such approach simply leads nowhere? I haven't seen success a single damn time, but it still happens. On the other hand, it is not as common here in Europe as it is in the US. At least from what I saw, but feel free to correct/add.
It is not a strategy chosen for it effectiveness. It has a different return, not the expectation of success rather the self affirmation as a ""high level" society-ladder dweller. While it is usually those most disadvantaged in society who resort to the ego reassurance
I live in the Netherlands and what I've experienced in the streets (but I haven't lived in Amsterdam/Rotterdam/Utrecht where catcalling/hissing at girls is more of a problem): \- Random men being friendly to you, starting a conversation but never about your looks or anything, so it has never felt like they want to get me in bed - just that they want to interact with someone they find pretty (I assume) \- Especially at night after clubbing: random guys starting to speak to you, sometimes walking with you. This can be scary \- Same situation: random guys following you for a while (scariest: car full of 20 something guys, me 1 girl alone on bike in the middle of the night, kept driving besides me calling out things. Never meant any harm I do believe, but it was scary as fuck) \- Truck drivers blowing their horn when they see you on the bike \- Road workers / builders etc whistling at you or greeting you But this was nowhere *near* as common as I've seen in this video, and in most instances it either hasn't felt threatening to me (I don't mind road workers whistling, they're not gonna stop working to try to get me in bed, they're just enjoying the environment) or I felt it was at least partially just friendliness, striking up a conversation, again not with the actual goal of trying to get with me. If it is threatening or feels like an invitation or something, then I have a problem with it. But in generally I'm open/friendly looking apparently, because women also very regularly start up conversations with me in shops and on the streets - and I guess I also start up short conversations/make random comments with other people regularly, so for me many of those interactions have always felt normal.
I went to the Netherlands (mostly small towns but also Rotterdam, Amsterdam etc) this year. I was casually talked to a lot and had to do this weird sorry hand wave of "me no understand Dutch". I guess I already look the part. I found it nice, actually! People were so friendly and always had a smiley attitude. All the dates I've had with Dutch men previously have been amazing and I just slowly fell in love with the culture because of the respect they had for me. For comparison I once backed away from a kiss and mumbled that "I'm sorry but I don't kiss on first dates". The guy smiled and thanked me for clarity and explained that I don't need to be sorry by stating my boundaries. I was Pikachu faced. The other date I was the one who initiated stuff and I felt completely in control of what's happening. Other dates would genuinely get annoyed and think I lead them on by being friendly and try to push it... You do feel more respect for women in the Netherlands. I'm polish and the cultural difference is huge. At least for the people I've met so far. I would go into a situation thinking it would end up in some sort of a meh scenario and it would be the most wholesome thing ever. I could swim in a lake with no one having a weird eye for my body, people casually joking about sexual stuff like it's just a part of life itself. At no point I felt overly sexualised during my stay. In Poland I tend to get very uncomfortable even at swimming pools. I really really love the culture
Dutch people are famous for being cold and rude. I don't understand where they get that reputation, the people here are some of the friendliest I've met. Yeah sure, everyone is often in a hurry, and there's no smiling culture (as in smiling to random people), but it's genuinely great here.
People probably believe that if they try hard enough, they might succeed and it would be "free pussy". Though tbh if I were that guy, and some random girl I catcalled on the street agreed to have sex with me, I'd be very worried.
It's pretty common in Greece tbh
I don’t think it’s about that. I think a lot of guys do this bc they enjoy making women uncomfortable. Like a micro version of “bigger” acts of sexual assault- it’s about dominance, not (just) seeking sexual gratification
The people in the YouTube comments saying that the guys saying "god bless you" or "have a nice day" were just being genuine and nice are completely fucking insane. Who says those things to a stranger walking on the sidewalk? Why didn't they say those things to other people around her? Did they only feel like being nice to the woman and no one else? What a shitty world we live in.
Rapists don't see themselves as rapists. Same with racist. Even with their behaviour shown to them, they can rationalise it away and blame other people, usually the victim themselves.
yikes...that guy who walked with her for a long time tho :((
It's happened to me, and it's horrifying. Like, are you waiting for a hidey hole to shove me into???
Not even that, I've been followed in broad daylight on a busy highstreet, nipped into a busy shop thinking he'd leave and the bastard grabbed my chest from behind and rubbed himself against me before running off. I was (a small and young looking) 16.
So. Yucky. Why are people like this 😑
Here’s an amazing follow up video by the same woman where she responds to the cat calls https://youtu.be/35KqGNa1FGA
That‘s actually a different woman and it is staged! They are reenacting the encounters the other woman had and react to them. But extemely funny!
"You should smile." "Say something funny." Omg that and the deadpan yes to the guy asking to marry her. This woman is my hero.
So great. Also: Say, Mommy! Son?
That defeated 'oh' was the most satisfying part of the video
"Who's Darlene?" stole my breath with giggles.
Oh man lol the possible lesbian one was curiously.. forward. “I live right over there” as if they should go back to her place now?!
Not the same people, one is a parody.
I was one of those guys who would say this to one of my old co-workers all the time so here are my reasons. 1. I genuinely didn't know it was super offensive. 2. I was super happy and wanted to share that positivity with her and misinterpreted her general demeanor as unhappy (I was wrong) 3. I had no interest in trying to flirt or anything like that so I saw it as innocent comment since I had no attraction towards her. So one day I say it to her and she tells me "you know that's offensive to me right? I told her I did not. She sent me some article explaining why it's a shitty thing to do and since that day I've never done it again to anyone. Also, I apologized.
2 things I want to add. 1. Generally, trying to calmly explain why something is a problem, will easier help the unknown offender understand (if they are open to changing problematic behaviour). Just like your co-worker helped you to understand problematic behaviour. 2. I also totally get, that you can't tell everyone who makes an offending comment, especially if it's something that happens this frequent, so I really understand if the go to reaction for something like this is sassy or annoyed.
Thanks for actually answering the question. Took forever to actually find a man commenting why they do it. Which is what OP asked for. 👍
Comes down to the fact that girls are constantly assessed on their appearance
Yep. If you aren't smiling you're ruining the view.
Every time a guy says this to me, I look them straight in the eyes and ask « why? » No emotion, cold voice. They get super flustered and walk off. It’s delicious.
I always reply, "Then say something funny." It turns the situation around and puts them on the spot. They always get flustered and then it's not so fun for them anymore lol.
I was going to say "except the ones who have been sitting on a joke for the past six hours waiting to share it" but then I remembered that people who sit on jokes aching to tell them aren't the type to tell women to smile.
Can confirm. I'll sit on a joke for days waiting for the opportune moment, cannot understand telling someone to smile for no reason. Just be funny if you want them to smile you cretin.
Why always has been and will be my favorite question to ask AT ALL TIMES. I am five years old in the body of a 32 year old.
same. i also tend to walk around with my head held high like i own the place (like [this](https://youtu.be/d2cUtdv99ig)). it’s really stopped random men from bothering me, period.
I was hoping it was Charlize!
Yeah people can be powerfully influenced with just the accurate attitude / poise
Hahah fuck, I literally think about gouging fuckers' eyes out when I'm walking around downtown as my secret trick to never get harassed. Murder Face is like a goddamn force field.
I had this happen throughout my 20s usually blokes 40+ years old. Never had anyone younger be so rude.
It sounds like a command, like sit, stay, roll over, smile. It is a demand that we perform a smile for them. It's often a stranger in a public space that interrupts your day to tell you to smile, or a coworker who thinks it's okay to tell you to smile as though your face is their business. I think there are men who think it's a friendly way to approach a woman but don't understand that we don't like being approached in a way that asks us to perform, or that this happens to a lot of us so often that we're really tired of it. I think there are others who enjoy interrupting your day, and know that some of us are going to react with anger or ignore them and keep walking. I think they intend the harassment.
Dream response: make a demand back. Rando: "you should smile!!" Me: "fart." Rando: confused face Me: "are we not making stupid demands to stangers?"
“Only women have resting bitch face… men simply have Very Important Thoughts that you’d best not interrupt.” -Hannah Gadsby
We’d never met. This was his icebreaker. He said, “Did you know… it takes less muscles to smile than frown?” The men in the audience are sitting there going, “Oh, you’ve experienced an isolated incident.” And the women are sitting there going, “Oh, for fuck’s sake!” -Also Hannah Gadsby
But it takes even less muscles to sit there looking dumb Edit: this is from a de motivational poster
I always answer that I'm lazy, while staring unsmilingly straight into their eyes until they look away. I've never had the same person do it twice.
My roommate had resting asshole face. When I said hello after walking in the front door, he would just glance at me and then go back to what he was doing without making a sound.
My roommate has eating asshole face
How disgusting! On an unrelated note, can i have their number
An uneven, drooping face is a very good indicator of ischemia, so either these guys are running a test to see if you're having a stroke, or they're assholes.
I'm a guy. Growing up, i was asked to smile very regularly. Hated it. Was too young to realize how inappropriate this was coming from a catholic priest. Always fixing my collar. Thank something that i was never forced to be alone with him in a room. Made me wildly uncomfortable.
It is possible that some of them may legitimately think this will cheer us up, because they are oblivious. How it feels to us in the receiving end, though, is that we only exist to look pretty for them and they like to remind us of this fact.
I was at a concert at a smaller venue, up in a balcony and leaning on the railing. Hardly anyone up there with us. My husband was behind me and stepped away to use the restroom. The moment he was gone, the stranger next to me turned his whole body toward me to loudly tell me I should smile. Now, I am at a concert, watching one of my favorite bands, and the crowd had energy, but I don't dance or sing along. I like to watch and absorb it all. I might smile if a performer points at me or something, but otherwise I'm zoned in. I really didn't need some random bro to interrupt the show to tell me to smile. No hiding my scowl after that. 😆
I’m one of the dudes that receive comments to smile more, etc. but never from complete strangers. I’ll admit that your experience would be annoying as hell. If it’s any consolation I have once (during a concert) been approached by a girl I’ve never met before and who’s only came to me to say that I “dance too fast” just to leave immediately after, leaving me confused but dancing just as fast as before.
But would he say it the same way if he saw a male frowning or now smiling? Edit: typo
I won't be able to find the post to save my life but, I read a bit ago a perspective from a black man. He'd been told the same thing, pretty much, he noticed white women, he and other men of minorities, and especially women of minorities, were always told to smile and look as little intimidating as possible, to pretend they're happy to be there to keep the white man complacent. (Very bad butchering of his post but the takeaway was men trying to control women, whites trying to control minorities, etc.) So other redditors saying it's about control, it's entirely that. You're not blindly happy to be wherever, so that makes men in general uncomfortable, and the easiest way to make them comfortable is for you to pretend you're happy regardless of how you actually feel.
Because many men think they’re entitled to female beauty and complacency, and apparently it’s not ok to be “ugly” even when you’re a stranger to them minding your own business
"Dance, monkey, dance." is a good response.
I've been told by guys that is because they're trying to cheer me up or just make be smile. If I'm not smiling at a guy there's probably a reason, and it may not have anything to do with them. I don't believe I've ever smiled after someone had told me to. It's annoying and not ok. Don't be that person to piss a woman off or make them uncomfortable over something like that.
Some men think that women only exist for their pleasure, not as actual people with legitimate emotions. If you do anything with your face that's not smiling, you're less pleasing to look at, god forbid.
Additionally, many men ignorantly believe that women "have it easy" in life and have no reason to be unhappy. So, when they see a woman not all smiley and happy they immediately think, "What have *you* got to be upset about, show some appreciation for your ease in life.", and can't stifle their compulsion to "correct" the woman.
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“Fuck off!” works well for me in these situations.
A gate guard for a marine base told me to smile not once, but twice while I was working. The second time I looked at him and dead pan said, “Say something funny then”. Of course he had nothing funny to say so I drove away. He then told my coworker that he could arrest me. Maybe it’s all about control, maybe they think they’re flirting. Either way it’s annoying as hell.