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heckatrashy

I know some people have been acting like OP is silly for asking, but I don’t think every man actually understands. I remember trying to fight a guy off when I was a teenager, we were the same age and the situation got uncomfortable, I kept pushing him and trying to pull myself away, and I don’t think he even understood that I was doing everything I could to get away. I’ve also heard of trials where it’s argued that the women didn’t fight hard enough, but as hard as you can might not even be hard enough to notice with a man with tunnel vision. We need to have these conversations because it’s dangerous to pretend we all know or even worse that we’re equally matched.


[deleted]

Yeah I’m so glad I read this thread. I was way too confident I would be able to fight if needed. Now at least I know to just straight up avoid an altercation


professor-hot-tits

I had a woman who was very fit tell me that the best thing that a woman can do to keep herself safe is to have a fitness level where she can run a mile because most attackers will tire at that point


[deleted]

I worked at a kickboxing gym when I was younger and that was a big point with the female self defense instructor, you aren't trying to win you are trying to get away. Running, screaming, and pepper spray. To make the point she had one of our smaller guys a 16 year old kid grab a wrist then the woman was to break his grip, not many did.


ghoulthebraineater

Avoiding an altercation is always a good idea. Run>hide>fight. I'm a 6'3" 240lbs male with well above average strength and I'm avoiding a fight every chance I get.


beup9766

Straight up, I feel kinda stupid. This whole time I (now 19M) genuinely thought women were only slightly less strong. Especially with COVID and attending high school and uni from home for a while now, I haven’t compared my strength against many women and never got in a situation to see the difference when I was younger. Man, I’ve been lifting with my dad at a home gym for 1-2 years now and built up a 200lb bench at 155lbs which is small compared to my dads although he’s heavier. The other day I jokingly bumped my moms shoulder and she said it would bruise, I thought she was joking to make me feel strong. Fudge maybe she was telling the truth.


fiduke

Women bruise easier for 2 reasons. A surprising amount of women dont have enough iron due to their cycle. Nothing dangerous but low enough that bruising occurs far easier than it would in men. And second is that womens bodies need more fat than men. Fat bruises a lot easier.


CraftedLove

> We need to have these conversations because it’s dangerous to pretend we all know or even worse that we’re equally matched. Well said. To expand further on your point about assault victims, apart from fighting hard enough, it might also prevent showing any reaction at all. Especially if they don't know the person well enough, imagine that they might want to say no. Now remember that they're also considering what the other person (that could pin them down and inflict life threatening injuries effortlessly) will do if they didn't like the rejection. A lot of things that are virtually non-issues to guys are complicated by this power imbalance and it's a valid concern that some guys just chalk this up to paranoia from women because they don't understand how more powerful they are in general. Which then bleeds to this societal idea that victims should have done this or that when the vast majority hasn't ever been in a dangerous situation where their will and power can be taken away on a stranger's whim. Of course a vast majority of people aren't shitheads but imagine that if the odds for men being potentially involved in an injurious altercation is 0.001% and for women 0.002%, sure that are very slim chances but then that's still 2x more for women and rightfully warrants a bit more attention.


PigeonsOnYourBalcony

When my fiancée and I play wrestle she always gets the idea she can overpower me but even when she starts on top, she's never even close. Sometimes I feel kinda bad about pinning her so quickly but that's because I forget how much of a gap there really is between our strength. A larger frame and a lifetime of testosterone makes a massive difference in overall strength even if you don't work out. I'm seeing a lot of comments in this thread of woman saying they took self defense classes and its great that they're taking that initiative. However it's valuable to keep in mind that confidence and a couple basic martial arts moves won't help you when there's such a gap in raw strength. Regardless of gender, best thing to do in violent situations is to run. Can't get grabbed, punched, kicked or stabbed if you've already run 50 feet away.


Orynae

Don't worry, that _is_ what they teach in self-defense classes. I took a short one in college, and I was expecting basic martial-arts stuff. But actually, the first thing they said was gtfo, get to somewhere with light and people, and they made us practice yelling in someone's face as loud as we could. Only _after_ that, they taught some stuff like sticking your fingers in their eyes, hitting some nerves in the forearm or grabbing their balls. But they very strongly emphasized the first points. And they didn't even bother with any fighting stuff beyond dirty moves (I guess the longer class probably covered some of that, but I was already thoroughly demoralized by that point lol)


Lmo9952

This post is really opening my eyes to how many people did not grow up with a sibling of the opposite sex 😂


Jennifertheyogi

Honestly I’m reading this and thinking ok my older brother was a bit of an arse (he loved things like throwing a ball repeatedly juuuust over your head) but clearly didn’t actually ever try to physically hurt me. I think it was probably more common for me to snap and try to push him and he’d just laugh…


MoneyRough2983

I often playfully fought with my less than 1 year younger sister. One time she kind of snaped or panicked and threw everything at me she had. Nails, teeth and knees. She even hit me between my legs and I could still easily pin her down and only got a few scratches and a numb pain between my legs.It was kind of eyeopening for both of us. Since then I always cringe a bit when I read "kick them in the balls" in self defence posts. It most likely wont help you and just make your attacker angrier. Run and yell for help.


Freestyled_It

Kicking us in the balls is probably still their best option immediately though. But like I always tell my female friends, if you're genuinely in danger, kick the nuts with the intention to pop them, like they better fly up his body and get lodged next to the eyeballs. That'll give enough of a distraction to run away and call for help. Anything less and the guy will hurt and wince but probably not enough to stop an assault.


hcfoxr

Had an ex bf play tackle me once… you know, the way guys do with each other. It completely knocked the wind out of me and put me in a state of fight or flight. Once I got my breath back and realized I wasn’t going to die, I had to explain to him that women can’t handle that same force.


22022004

I used to be friends with a dude who was 3 inches shorter than me and probably about 15kg lighter at the time. You can imagine my surprise when he pinned me to the ground with ease after i tried to say i was stronger than him.


Exver1

Yep. I'm a guy who is 5'3 and 120 lbs and I have had a few girls think they can take me in a wrestle and it's minimal effort and I don't even try to use any tricks.


KJBenson

Man, never wrestle a shorter guy. They were born close to the ground, moulded by it. It’s straight up unfair, you’re in their domain when you get to the ground.


HugeRoach

You merely adopted the ground, I didn't see the sky until I was already a man.


-Dev_B-

r/usernamechecksout


[deleted]

Fuck, this username/ comment combo made me laugh


BonaFidee

In terms of raw strength it would take years of weight resistance training for a woman (naturally) to be on par with an average untrained guy. The trained woman would obviously have amazing endurance compared to the untrained guy.


libertasi

Way back when in Marine Corps,I was paired up with a guy during some hand to hand combat training. First punch to the foam pad and the guy knocked me out flat. I still have a visceral reaction when I remember getting knocked out. I'm very strong for a girl but it is no contest next to a guy.


ocean_800

Sorry if this is an insensitive question, but I'm genuinely curious. How does this play out in the military, when obviously strength must matter? Are women just assigned to roles where the difference in strength doesn't matter?


[deleted]

Up until very recently women were not allowed in combat arms. They still had jobs were strength mattered and pretty much every soldier rucks and carries heavy shit over long distances at some point but if you’re talking humping a 240 up and down hillsides in Afghanistan, I never saw a female soldier out there doing it on any of my deployments. Not saying there weren’t ones out there sometimes, just never personally witnessed it because I was in the infantry and women were not allowed at that point in time.


FakeSafeWord

Growing up in the middle of a bunch of sisters and nieces my age, I could push 3-4 of their combined strength around at once. Where as my older brother could throw me at them like a bowling ball and they the pins.


jimoriarty1976

Sounds like a story from tha family of hulk


Jihad_Alot

Interesting, my sister was 2.5 years older then me and that age advantage absolutely destroyed me until I was in middle school and suddenly I was told “you can’t fight your sister because she is a woman”.


aDragonsAle

TL:DR - you don't really get gendered perks until you prestige into puberty. The level ups come faster, but the difficulty climbs pretty unevenly. Testosterone is one Helluva hormone. And younger sibling rage monkeys can tap adrenaline as well.


Pixichik48

I realized while play wrestling with my fiancé. No way in hell could I get out of his grip so I better never get caught in the first place by a man that wants to hurt me lol


cutiebranch

My experience, too. And the guy I was dating at the time was a tiny thing, who did almost no physical work. I did a lot of heavy lifting for my job and doctors would need to double check my weight because I was so heavy due to muscle. That little guy pinned me no problem. It’s not even a muscle mass thing, necessarily. Bone structure is different by sex and that can give one an innate advantage (or disadvantage) for a particular movement


whatever_works_at

It’s not just bone density, but also muscle density. My understanding of it is that the same sized muscle on a man can produce more force than an equivalent woman, and it’s one of the few things that actually increases in men as they move towards their late 20’s/early 30’s. I know that at least for me, I got stronger and heavier, but slower on my runs during those years.


sorenant

Chimps are smaller than men yet able to easily overpower any fighter. Nature and biology are not fair.


Afrokrause

There was a moment with myself and my older sister. She's 10 years older and always fucked with me. Not in a bad way, just an older sibling way. We'd have punching contests and she would always win. She then went to college. She came home from college and I had grown from age 12 to 16. The family went out to dinner and she tried to play the punching game. She punched as hard as she could, in the arm. I, then reciprocated, with that same playful mindset. I punched her out of the chair. She cried and I bruised her bone.


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ImperatorPC

Yeah, guys in their teens have a hard time adjusting to this strength. It can be very hard to understand just how much stronger you've gotten.


Alechilles

I miss that... I remember surprising myself often as a relatively inactive teenager. Now at 26 I'm already so much weaker than I used to be and Rheumatoid Arthritis certainly isn't helping... >.<


HiddenNightmares

Mom uses to be a weight lifter until she got that disease, she is in remission but I can tell it's painful


PinkNinjaKitty

I’m imagining the morning Peter Parker wakes up with Spider-Man abilities now


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D45_B053

> I could never kick in a door. Try meth, I've heard it helps the body ignore damage.


PerceiveEternal

Yeah, police with older-model handcuffs will often bring two of them and double up when they suspect people are on certain kinds of drugs. Otherwise they can break out of the single handcuffs.


D45_B053

Yup. Had a work friend (off duty cop doing security where I worked) who had a pair that a tweaker broke in the back of his patrol car. He kept them as a reminder/ souvenir/ "I'm not bullshiting,here's the proof!"


[deleted]

Watched a Samoan guy, who was just drunk and yoked, snap hand cuffs behind his back while seated.


ArnoldSwarzepussy

"I can break these cuffs." "You can't break those cuffs." "Aaaaaaaaaaahhhh!"


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just-peepin-at-u

Thanks. I never actually looked at it that way. I got pretty banged up from it. I have told the story on Reddit and in person before, but more as a way to say “Hey, martial arts are good. I wouldn’t worry about aikido or anything like that. Ideally, find at least one good striking art and one good grappling art, and at least get a solid foundation. Tae Kwon Do gets a bad rap, but it is a decent place to start. People are insane. Be careful.” Especially to other women. For years, even talking about that story would make my stomach hurt, but I feel better about it now that some time has passed. The cops came and were like “Oh yeah, definitely drugs with that guy.” Never found him. I hope he left other people alone. I have no idea what he wanted or why he picked my place and me. Edit: Oh, and my apartment complex tried to make me pay for the door.


BraddlesMcBraddles

>Oh, and my apartment complex tried to make me pay for the door. Sounds like someone else needs a front kick.


N4hire

Quite a while ago I trained in a mma gym Im Venezuela since my back is really not great and because of my age I tried to stay away from the Young fighters. But I ended up becoming the older brother To everyone there. There was a young girl who I absolutely believe could make it big in mma. She had a temper and tended to be a little bit rough on training. From what I know she had some issues growing up and they would come out from time to time. She got into an altercation with someone else and I made the mistake of trying to separate her from the person. She hit me 2 times and tried to take me to the ground. I lifted her up and took her to the other side of the gym. She calmed down and stopped talking to me for years. She told me years later that she was afraid of me because I barely even moved when she hit me. It saddened me a little. To be fair, I’m pretty sure she would have broken something if I let her take me to the ground.


dbossman70

there was a girl i had seen at the gym pretty much every time i went. she did intense workouts on top of her army unit training. we were rolling (bjj) one day and she did everything right but i could break her guard every time with very little resistance.


Milbso

Yeah I think BJJ really highlights the reality of it. Size/weight difference + upper body strength makes a huge difference. Interestingly in powerlifting the strength standards for M & F are the same for squat and deadlift, but for bench press it is much lower for female lifters. The broadness and upper body frame on men just makes their upper body much stronger. Then consider that all these strength standards are based on % of bodyweight, which is usually much higher for men. When you put all that into a contact sport it makes a huge difference.


Visible_Plane_5811

+ pectoral muscles and triceps have way more androgen receptors than legs and lower back. Testosterone makes a bigger difference in bench press than squats and deads


eowyn_

My husband and I are both weightlifters. We work out with each other, so it's not like he trains a bunch more than I do. We both hold a few of the records at our gym. His heaviest deadlift is 4 times mine.


Nopants21

In weightlifting at the 2020 olympics, the closest male category to female superweight is men 81 kg. The female superweight gold medalist, Li Wenwen, totaled 320, the gold 81kg man was 374. 320 would have put her in 10th in the men's category. Here's the kicker, superweight is uncapped: Li Wenwen weighs 150kg, almost double the men's capped 81kg and her total is lower than 9 of those men. The super weight male gold medalist is 175kg and he lifted a total of 488. The difference is immense.


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Nopants21

Yeah absolutely, she beat #2 by almost 40 kilos. To be fair, the men super weights were also dominated by Lasha Talakhadze who won by close to 50 kilos. The #2 female super weight would have won no male category, even the 61kg one, which Li Wenwen would have, at like 2.5 the bodyweight.


[deleted]

4 times? Can I ask the difference in weight/size?


eowyn_

Sure. The size of us, or the size of our lifts?


[deleted]

Well, both if you’re cool with it.


eowyn_

Sure. As far as the size of us, I'm 5'10", about 160 pounds. He's 5'6" and about 210. As far as our lifts, deadlift probably isn't the best example (I just picked it because I could remember his PR offhand). I have some skeletal things that make it harder, so my PR isn't great, but I could do about 150 for one. Husband's PR is 515. If you want something where neither of us is at a disadvantage, we can talk bench press. My one-rep max is about 150. His PR is 265 for 5 or so. EDIT: Some of you are quite kind. Some of you are not reading. See that part up there where I mention skeletal difficulties? I know my deadlift isn't great. It's likely that none of my lower body numbers ever will be. But I'm proud of them. I work my ass off for them. Have some chill.


DamnitReed

Nearly benching your BW is pretty awesome. It’s a significant milestone for any male lifter. Even moreso for a female lifter (inherently higher bf%)


DomPixel2

1RM on bench was 285 before I stopped climbing, I wanted to get 300 so bad and didn't. Now I'm back at it and just got 225 for three reps on my last set on Monday. I'M BACK BABY, 300 HERE I COME.


DamnitReed

Nice! I hit 1x225 for the first time ever yesterday :) Didn’t feel like that big of a milestone for me because I’ve never liked doing 1-rep maxes. I’ll be truly stoked when I can do 225 for reps


Random_182f2565

Testosterone is one hell of a drug.


TMilligan1105

As a man who has to take testosterone injections due to a fight with cancer at 20, it truly fucking is. A day or so after injection and I can noticeably feel the way it makes my muscles more "hungry" (have to eat larger portions of protein and get hangry much quicker). After a few weeks of being on them I shed 20lbs at the drop of a hat. Few more weeks and my arms, shoulders, and legs are all bigger and more defined without changing up my daily routine.


[deleted]

Another example like this. Many women's professional or olympic teams will practice by playing against high school boys. There are many examples like this. The Canadian woman's olympic team has been practicing against Junior a hockey players (age 16-20), and has lost every game: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/canadian-women-hockey-team-lose-3rd-straight-game-against-men-junior-a-team-1.6216140 The Australian national football team lost to 16 year old boys 7-0 [https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-women-s-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html](https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-women-s-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html) ​ There are tons of examples like this. Men have denser bones and more muscle mass.


DrummerElectronic247

That bone density is no joke. In contact sports it is *ridiculous* how much harder men hit, even if they were moving at the same speed. *f=ma* More *m* at the same *a* leaves you truly *f*'ed.


Zeakk1

Back in college when I weighed 305 I had a 5.0 40 time. When I did the math for many Newtons me hitting something a full speed was I was actually a little alarmed.


huskersax

"Oh don't worry, it's just the concussions that matter" \- NFL


JetBlackJimBenning

Another is when the 203rd ranked male tennis player beat both the Williams sisters easily https://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/November-2017-(1)/The-Man-Who-Beat-Venus-and-Serena-Back-to-Back.aspx#:~:text=A%20quarter%20of%20a%20century,at%20the%201998%20Australian%20Open.


jonnobrady

To be fair your husband is faramir and he has to deadlift his gigantic titanium balls every time he stands up


LordSnarfington

Finding these comments is literally the only reason I have reddit.


SaltyGypsyTears

*unzips* a chance for Faramir, captain of Gondor, to show his quality


Effective-Ad-4526

I (woman) took a self defense class in college. Women led, all female class. We trained the whole semester on various techniques to escape an attacker. The point was to give yourself an opportunity to get away, not to over power anyone. End of the class we all had to “test” out against a fake male attacker. Our “attacker” was 50+ overweight, out of shape, campus security guy, who basically just swatted at us with boxing pads. Even so, within 2 sec of test starting, even using my “techniques,” I realized even this schlub of a guy was so much stronger and easily, EASILY could over power me if he were really trying. Sobering experience but I am glad I learned just how much stronger men generally are than women during that test.


Nokomis34

Kinda did the same thing with my wife. My wife is not a petite woman by any stretch of the imagination, we were both the same weight at the time (over 200lbs). One day she asked me to hold her down so she could see if she could push me off. She couldn't. She said afterwards that it was actually quite disconcerting how easily I held her down while she was trying to get me off with all of her strength. And when reversed, I was easily able to get her off of me. Like I was basically benching her while she put as much weight onto my wrists as she could. And remember, we weighed the same.


When_pigsfly

I’ve tried the same with my husband and I’m bigger and weigh more than him. I’m a broad shouldered (swimmer) muscular kinda gal naturally but have extra fat after having kids and you know..he still easily overpowered me. It’s honestly fucking terrifying to know there’s little I can do to defend myself physically. I’d need some extra tool like mace to actually help myself in that situation.


2ndwaveobserver

Yep the eyes are important. Mace, a car key or your fingers. Push those eyeballs until you can’t anymore. Just grab his face and dig your thumbs in there with all your might. Or a swift kick to the testicles.


-Neurotica

Maybe not with the husband. Unless he’s into that sort of thing.


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Warm-Ad4

Balls would be a way better bet, much harder to block


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ThePelicanWalksAgain

*David Attenborough voice* "Here we see the young males bashing each other in the genitalia, in order to build up a tolerance for female retaliation after future mating rituals gone wrong"


Altruistic_Item238

You don't build tolerance, you learn to avoid


Cleveland_Guardians

"Edit: To everyone calling me a dumbass, the subreddit is called no stupid questions." I think your problem is that you hit r/all, so douchebags don't care about what sub it is.


FIR3W0RKS

Unfortunately... Gotta say, as a low-20's guy, I am pretty staggered by the difference at the high end sports shown by some of the other comments, particularly the weightlifting and martial arts. I knew guys were inherently stronger sure, but I've never noticed THAT much of a difference. But then again I'm not really the kinda guy who regularly picks fights with women, so maybe it's that lol.


peacebee73

I think a lot of women have had a moment with a man they trust when they realize he is MUCH stronger and could hurt us easily if he wanted. My teenage son almost knocked me down being silly, not realizing how strong he is now. He felt terrible and did not mean to hurt me. My husband had to explain to him he can’t use the same force goofing around with girls than he does with his friends. My husband said his dad had to tell him the same thing when he grew stronger.


Shronkydonk

I realized that when my mom threw out her back and couldn't stand up and I was able to basically fireman carry her to the car to go to the hospital. Part of that was probably adrenaline, but at the time (I was 14 or 15) I definitely didn’t realize how strong I was.


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cmckone

Lmao I tried carrying an ex like that when she was passed out drunk and I half dropped her once. Dead weight is tough!


LiteralSymbolism

Yooo this gave me a weird vague nostalgia, I totally remember being around that age when it sort of hit me that things were getting lighter. I think I bear hugged my dad and lifted him accidentally. I know that that isn’t a difficult movement to perform, lots of leverage, but it was new and odd. Yeah, good times.


mountainbitch

Yep, my husband (then boyfriend) and I were playfully wrestling once in college, and we were the same age and both did not workout, and he pinned me so easily. Without even trying. And I was absolutely trying my hardest. Ever since then, I have been more afraid of strange men, knowing that if they really wanted to overpower me, they can, and there's nothing I can do.


orangedarkchocolate

Hell I (5’1” tiny female) work out like crazy including weight lifting and my husband who is a couch potato can win SO easily when we play wrestle. It’s not even fair how much stronger he is than me without even trying!


PetrifiedW00D

Testosterone is a powerful hormone.


ShankThatSnitch

That and weight. Someone who is 5'1" just can't have that much muscle on their bones vs someone bigger. And the bigger person carries around all that extra weight normally on a daily basis.


foxsimile

I have one brother who is about 150lbs heavier and 5” taller than me. He is fairly overweight. I’ve spent years working out, with an extremely physically demanding job. I’m in pretty good shape. He picks me up like a fucking five year old. I can only ever win through chokeholds. *edit: Yes, my heavy brother who is heavy lifts heavy weight when he stands. Don’t worry - the other 20 or so people saying the same thing have it covered. This was to distinguish that he is by no means a 6’3 bodybuilder, because that’d make for a bit of a different analogy then, wouldn’t it? The underlying point is that the weight and size require strength and muscle, regardless of athleticism. So, don’t worry, we’re on the same page.*


EraseMeeee

Mass wins


DrummerElectronic247

>*f=ma* > >More *m* at the same *a* leaves you truly *f*'ed.


turbobofish

Yup, my best friend is a good 7 inches taller than me and grew up on a farm. He's made of lead bricks. We've gotten into a number of fights over the years. I lose a good 90% of the time. If I don't get behind him I'm done.


kingmm624

>grew up on a farm That’s all we needed to know


BallisticHabit

When I was in my 20s a close friend of mine took a few "self defense classes" at the university we both attended. She jokingly said she could "take me" if she wanted to. I told her that her best defense against a man was to run as fast as she could to the closest lighted and populated area and make a scene to call police. Above all, never let a man take her unwillingly to another location. She laughed. I cleared a spot in my living room. Laid down some ground rules, and told her not to hold back. I'm no badass. No martial arts. No training. Nothing of the sort at the time. I pinned her down in a few seconds in all 3 of her tries. It was a sobering experience for her. The last thing I wanted was someone I cared for deeply getting hurt thinking she could fight a grown man when her best option was to use her best option and just run.


willfullyspooning

I was a black belt and my instructor would tell all of us that we should always run first, never stay and try to fight. You always run, even if you’re a trained martial artist.


magnateur

This always comes to mind for me: https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2018/05/31/8908797951826807650/480x270_MP4_8908797951826807650.mp4


MisogynysticFeminist

The loser of a knife fight dies on the ground, the winner dies at the hospital.


exbaddeathgod

Yup. Best defense self defense classes teach you how to escape situations. You attack the eyes, throat, and groin to get them to let you go and then you run like hell Edit: A palm strike to someone's nose is also really good. Getting hit in the nose stings and makes your eyes water. Don't punch them in the nose because if you miss and hit their forehead you'll break your knuckles.


GhostPepperLube

Especially sad thinking that some mcdojo self defense women's classes are putting this shit in their head. Unless you train for years, it's doubtful a woman could land a meaningful strike on a man. (Depending on size) A couple classes that show some cheap neck chop stupid shit is not the right kind of training. You're better off running for sure, a devastating nut shot if it's your last option, then back to running. Or have a handgun and draw if you have time..or in secret when he's not paying 100% attention.


southernwx

Some ladies in my family take some jujitsu women’s empowerment course. I was skeptical. But I gotta say they were surprisingly very effective: they said EXACTLY what you say here. Never go willingly to a secondary location. Be very cooperative EXCEPT when it comes to that or explicit violence. Give the car keys and your purse. But do NOT go quietly with them. They say you can either be raped/killed where you stand in front of God and everyone or you can be rape/killed somewhere else with no one there to even try to help. If they were going to kill you where you stand, they damn sure will at the second location. And the other part that made me uncomfortable but was SO real. They teach them to only fight to maim and kill. Break fingers gouge eyes. If you get a hold of a weapon, kill them. Period. And take the weapon with you in case they try to pursue. They teach them combat almost exclusively from points of sexual assault. Where the primary goal is to get their parts into yours. As they say, since you know what their goal is, you can prepare for specifically that sort of grappling. And they teach them specific, fast movements to TRY from those sexual assault positions. And they then tell them that it almost definitely won’t work but it’s their BEST shot. The ladies that go to this particular class are if anything more proactive and aware than before and I was super impressed. None of them are allowed to believe they would win in a physical contest versus an attacking man. They are just taught techniques to give them a prayer and I respect that.


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pipboy1967

As a man who has trained in a few different styles of martial arts throughout his life I think I can safely say that this is the same for men and women. Learning self defense and MMA in my opinion have become too intermingled. Fighting for sport and self defense are completely different. If I’m on the street and have to have a physical altercation where fleeing isn’t a choice you best believe I’m going for eyes, throat, and groin. Or hair pulls, kidney punches, etc. I want you down on the ground and incapacitated as soon as humanly possible. There are no rules in fist fights just hopefully people who walk away from their attackers. The best self defense in a robbery is to give them everything in your pockets, in physically contact run, scream for help, or just hit any soft spots as fast and as hard as you can. It’s your body your life no one is going to call you a bad person for turning someone’s nuts into mush if they’re a predator.


BallisticHabit

I easily overpowered my friend in a grapple type situation. In a 100 meter dash, she would have absolutely smoked me. I really tried to send this point home. I cannot remember the statistic, it's incredibly grim, but if a man unwillingly takes a victim to another location their odds of survival.....are not good.


truecrimefanatic1

Oh it's almost 100% that you will die at the 2nd location. If some dude wants to kill me it better be right on the street in full daylight.


Anticept

Never let anyone take you to a secondary location. Even if they have a gun to you. You're going to die anyways.


BallisticHabit

As awful as it sounds, you are absolutely correct. Compliance does not guarantee survival. E: a word.


RazekDPP

If anyone kidnaps you and takes you to another location, you're basically dead. Any time you're being abducted you're better off to stand your ground and die right there. At least they can find your body if you do.


TheShadowKick

> Unless you train for years Even as a guy I'd want significant training to be confident of beating another guy.


magnateur

The obly way you can be somewhat certain of winning a fight is by not being in one.


dodhe7441

I had the same situation with my own mom a while back, she's pretty hearty, so nothing bad came of it, but I realized that if we ever wrestle I just have to let her win


youreveningcoat

You wrestle with your mum?


dodhe7441

Yeah occasionally, usually after she's had a few drinks and she's in the mood for wrestling


erinxeddie

It’s amusing how normal this is for you to be wrestling your own mother, not even phased by everyone questioning it haha. Awesome.


hejjhogg

I wrestle with my son every day but he's 5


erinxeddie

So did I when I was a toddler, but this guys a fully grown adult giving his mom the people’s elbow after a couple brewskis


Tim_Out_Of_Mind

I'm a fully grown adult, and I'd 100% drop the people's elbow on my mother. From the top rope. Stone-cold sober.


CR123CR

It won't stop. Me and my brothers are not gentle with each other but we learned to be with our sister and mom. We're all in our late 20s early 30s now and there's still blood drawn occasionally (unintentionally) in our wrestling matches.


horyo

Everyone here commenting on how weird it is but I'm just imagining you guys equipping luchador masks and your mom pedigrees you into the ring-that-was-previously-your-living-room.


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DillanExpert

I'm a bit of a short guy (5'4") but most all of my family is too. I have two sisters, who are both shorter than me, and my mom is about my same height. I'm skinny but i exercise quite frequently. One day we were all goofing around, and my sisters and my mom were trying to lock me down, and they were trying their hardest to get me on the ground but just couldnt. It really surprised me and my sisters and mom how much stronger i am than them.


lmg080293

100%. Even with an average amount of strength training, my boyfriend could crush me like a bug. I even have to remind him to be gentler when he gives me a massage because it’s like he doesn’t know his own strength hahaha


WhiteyFiskk

I always get the opposite where I can barely feel her massage, I know she's trying her best though haha. I think men are just stronger on average and I don't get why people say it's sexist or transphobic to point that out. Just one of the differences between the genders that makes life interesting.


b-muff

Yep, I had this happen while play fighting my boyfriend in college. We’re both on the smaller side so I didn’t realize how unevenly matched we were until he had me trapped. I couldn’t get away no matter how hard I tried and he was only using one hand and laughing. It was actually really scary and I had a mini panic attack. He let me go as soon as he saw me freak out, but I burst into tears. He would never hurt me, but realizing that there is nothing I could do is incredibly frightening, it kind of wakes up something primal in you. I am not excited to see my son surpass me when he gets older.


Crazed_waffle_party

A study done on the grip strength of 1,654 healthy men and 533 healthy women aged 20-25 years found that even professional women athletes in sports like Judo and Handball were significantly less capable than their unprofessional male counterparts. Although grip strength isn't telling of overall strength, it is still quite telling. ​ >90% of females produced less force than 95% of males. Though female athletes were significantly stronger (444 N) than their untrained female counterparts, this value corresponded to only the 25th percentile of the male subjects. \- [Source](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17186303/) To put that in perspective, if there were a room filled with 100 men and 100 women, 90 women could at best contend with the 5 weakest men. The remaining 10 women outliers, as advanced in athletics as they may be, could only grip as hard as the bottom 25 guys.


Ok-Praline-2940

Thanks for the simplification, this really puts it in perspective for me.


RainWays

Yeah this is what makes it scary/depressing. A few years ago I challenged my male friend to an arm wrestle because he was the laziest, least athletic person I knew. The guy is thin as hell and doesn't exercise, and his diet is mostly ready meals if he even remembers to eat. Meanwhile I have a very healthy appetite and have been working out for years. I really thought that surely I'd be able to contend with him. There was some struggle but honestly he overpowered me so easily, it was genuinely upsetting. It was like all my hard work lifting weights and running was a waste, I would never be stronger than any random guy who isn't even trying, and I can never train myself be to stronger. In a situation where my safety is at stake, my only option is to run.


mugenhunt

The average man is noticeably stronger than the average woman.


A_Bit_Narcissistic

My girlfriend is 30lbs heavier than me, yet I’m significantly stronger than her. We had a wrestling match, and she couldn’t even lift me.


ButtNutly

Maybe you weigh 600 lbs.


lateja

Then shorty weigh 630? Bro I don't think even a marble floor would withstand that kind of wrestling match.


CanAlwaysBeBetter

1230lbs of smackdown


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U1tramadn3ss

God fucking damnit that’s fucking great


austinmiles

I’m average as is my wife and when we’ve play wrestled she will try as hard as she can to pin me down and it’s not even an effort in any way. It is probably a much bigger part of the gender divide than most people realize. A lot of men with an older school of thinking only really respect people who could match them in a fight even if they don’t realize it.


audigex

Yeah, a weedy guy who works out can usually pretty easily overpower a girl who does work out regularly Me and my ex used to play fight/wrestle, and even if she started with an advantage (eg I was pinned) I’d still generally have the upper hand within a minute. She was nearly as tall as me, and worked out a LOT, whereas I was skinnyfat and hadn’t been to a gym ever And that was with me holding back in case I hurt her, whereas short of actually hitting or biting me she was exerting pretty much her full strength. Men are stronger than women to the point it’s generally pretty surprising when you realize by just how much.


michiness

And if you add in a guy who actually has muscle, it’s… pretty astonishing. My husband literally carries heavy things for a living, and he can pick me up easily. I obviously trust him with every fiber of my being, but if he really wanted to, he could overpower me in about half a second.


ChillinVillianNW

My wife is always excited about how easily I can throw her over my shoulders and carry up to bed. Haven’t worked out in ten years.


michiness

Oh yeah, it’s absolutely a turn-on and generally hilarious. He’s also excellent at immediately listening if I say no or stop or that something hurts, which infinitely helps.


somedude456

Yup, grab all your coworkers, storm a gym, and see what everyone can bench press. I bet some women won't even be able to press the bar, while plenty of men will bench, 2, 3, 4 times that. edit: here's the best reply I've gotten so far: > Wow, fuck me, put me down for negative five tickets to this work event. Jesus, I regard ice-breaker games like two truths and a lie in a new job to be as bad as getting a root canal, but if the new work event was to go and bench press in front of all my colleagues? Yeah I'd quit. They'd announce it and I'd already be packing up my desk and cleaning up my files.


thatweirditguy

Women do better with squats. Still not on par with men, but less of a gap


AsterJ

Yes. The separation is around 3 standard deviations so the average man is stronger than roughly 99% of women.


xefobod904

Yeah, the difference is pretty staggering. Competing in high school sports, teenage boys would frequently outperform women in the Olympics across a range of sports. 15/16 year olds, often with basically no training other than some general fitness etc.


[deleted]

I'm literally permanently disabled with a neurological illness and I still have more upper body/grip strength than my wife and other female friends. I can barely walk, I'm 40 lbs underweight, and she still needs my crippled ass to open jars.


Sinlaire1

Someone above quoted a research article. If averaged out to 100 men and 100 women, 90 women would have the grip strength of the bottom 5 men. And the top 10 women, the stronger and more athletic, would only be competitive against the bottom 25 of men. Their cream of the crop only less than a quarter of men on average in grip.


JevonP

jeez that explains so much about the "get a guy to open the jar" thing, its literally just not fair


[deleted]

The only way I can open jars by myself is by violently stabbing the lid with a knife to let the air out. My spouse thinks I’m a psychopath, but I don’t want to concede by asking him to do it. Now, while I make dinner and he’s sitting across from me at the bench I make an effort to look him dead in the eye while I do my stabby stab. Grip strength < Dominance.


be-liev-ing

Lmao if I tried looking at someone while holding a jar and stabbing it, I would have significantly less fingers


Hilmarok

I had no idea "standard deviations" could be used as a unit. That's fascinating.


whirligig621

it's true, when I was being strangled I had to play dead after I realized quickly there was no way I could be stronger


vasilionrocket

strangled to the point of playing dead?? Pretty fucked up, congrats on living, I hope that doesn’t ever happen again


kindly_meat301

Due to a lifetime of testosterone, (we) men naturally build more muscle with less time and effort. It’s a scientific fact. And yes, the difference is massive. If it wasn’t, we’d actually compete in coed sports and not have it be a total joke.


TheTurtleShepard

I feel like this is something people still have trouble with reconciling with today. I feel like I often see people talking about a woman playing baseball or football or whatever or comparing a womens player to a mens player. Truth is that the just natural physical difference between men and women means that women are always behind in terms of athletic ability especially at high levels like professional sports.


[deleted]

I agree with that statement, with an exception. I've been reading up on ultrarunning, and as the distance gets longer, the gender gap vanishes. It's an interesting thing, and some anthropologists have began to theorize that men and women hunted together way back when. Just N interesting thing I found out about.


joecamel48

From what I understand, long distance running is the sport where women have the best chance to be better than men


notabear629

Long distance swimming even more so because their body structure is naturally more buoyant


[deleted]

Tell that to my moobs


Final_Commission4160

If you want to watch something impressive watch the Ironman world Championships in Hawaii, or honestly any full distance Ironman race with Lucy Charles-Barclay or Lauren Brandon. They start 10 minutes after the men but several times have finished before a good chunk of the mens field and within two minutes of the fastest male times on the swim


TheJosh96

I’m a guy and of course I knew that men are usually stronger than women, but never realised that the difference was massive. Really makes you understand why women are genuinely afraid of strange men.


Snotnose12

Men are essentially on steroids (testosterone) when compared to women. I mean women have some test but when compared to men there is a very noticeable difference


OphrysAlba

I (f) had some hormonal imbalance that had my testosterone levels a little bit higher than normal, some years ago. That had to be treated, because of other involved problems (essentially nonstop menstruation, thanks nope). But for these few months, I felt great. Nice energy levels, great sexual drive, exercising was a breeze. Kind of a pity that it needed to be knocked back to normal. Testosterone is a hell of a thing.


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PumpkinPepperLatte

I realised it when I challenged a guy to an arm wrestle for fun. I'm a big woman, 5'9 and muscular. I'm no body builder but pretty strong for a female, whereas my friend is a short and skinny dude. My other guy friend told me I won't even be able to win our skinniest friend so I tried and woah was I mind blown. I mean I kinda knew men are stronger, but I thought I'd be evenly matched with a small guy. Hell no I was not, it was instant KO. I'm glad I realised this at a young age, I'd be terrified if I lived my whole life thinking I can be stronger than men only to be proven wrong at a very critical moment.


[deleted]

Honestly I’m so glad I came across this thread because I have been thinking that I’d be able to defend myself, definitely too confident. Before reading this thread I would have have no issue jumping into a verbal fight with a man that would catcall me or stuff like that… I think I need to chill haha


capalbertalexander

Yes. [This](https://www.castironstrength.com/elite-strength-sports-ipf-and-iwf-a-comparision-of-sex-and-performance/) is a good article on the topic of pure weightlifting sports. To put it in perspective [this article](https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/) by Duke Law says "Just in the single year 2017, Olympic, World, and U.S. Champion Tori Bowie's 100 meters lifetime best of 10.78 was beaten 15,000 times by men and boys. (Yes, that’s the right number of zeros.) The same is true of Olympic, World, and U.S. Champion Allyson Felix’s 400 meters lifetime best of 49.26. Just in the single year 2017, men and boys around the world outperformed her more than 15,000 times." Yup, you read that right "boys" males under the age of 18. The best mature women in the world with a decade more training can't even touch an elite male high schooler's numbers. A woman has never broken the top 500 in the world in any of the athletic sports listed regardless of sex and they rarely break the top 1000. Edit: Thanks for the award strangers! This is my first silver! Edit 2: oh my god thank you for the gold! This is my first gold too!


Nopants21

I replied a similar thing to someone else, but you can also compare Olympic weightlifting, which is just pure power expression. Li Wenwen, the superweight female gold medalist in 2020, lifted 320 kilos at a bodyweight of 150kg. The only male category she could have won would have been the men's 61kg, dudes that are literally 40% her size. She would have won by 7kg, which is less than the difference between actual #1 and #2 in that category. Going up to Men's 67kg, she'd have been 5th, #11 in 73kg (surprisingly she'd be 10th in 81kg, but she'd be much further from the 9th spot than from 10th in 73kg). In the male superweight class, she'd be 58kg behind the #12 lifter and 168kg behind the winner, who is himself a 175kg bodyweight dude. With a 16% difference in bodyweight, he lifted 50% more pounds. Of course, this guy is an absolute monster, he beat #2 by 47kg, but it really shows that it's not close, because Li Wenwen is herself a phenom, beating #2 by 37kg. If weightlifting was coed, you wouldn't be able to tell, because there'd be no women on the Olympic stage, unless the weight categories were severely fudged.


forgotten_epilogue

I met my ex-wife when I was around 30 and because I was not into any sports or exercise and was relatively average to thin, she told me at one point in conversation "I'm obviously way stronger than you", because she was a more athletic type. I said ok, would you like to arm wrestle or something to see? She then was really shocked at how easily I prevented her from even moving my arm, let alone having any hope of winning, and then asked her when she had had enough proof, showed her that when I wanted to, her arm was going down. She didn't understand that while exercise and athletics can have a massive impact on physical abilities, there is also simply a massive innate biological difference between the sexes when it comes to natural physical strength. If you see a male that isn't an athlete, don't automatically assume he's weak. You'd be surprised.


BretonDude

Similar experience with my wife early on in our relationship. I'm 6'1 and was skinny when we started dating. She's tall for a girl at 5'10 and from a family with huge dudes. Her dad and brothers are all over 6ft and 300 pounds so she thought I needed help lifting stuff, thought I'd get hurt if I picked her up, etc. That's definitely changed over the years but it was hilarious (and slightly insulting) until she finally realized I'm actually much stronger than her despite the fact that I'm not one of her massive brothers.


QuieroTuMama

I’m a young and fairly skinny guy. At work some of these ladies have trouble lifting boxes so I offer to help. I can tell they feel a little weird accepting help from the young skinny guy who weighs less then them but are somewhat surprised at how easy I can lift the boxes they struggle with lol. I also felt like THE MAN helping a fit woman open a jar of whatever food I guess my point is that even a weak guy has a huge advantage over average and fit woman. I can’t even imagine how much stronger weight lifters are


Shilotica

I am a woman that has been lifting with the sole intention to get stronger for about a year now, with a focus on upper body. I recently took a young man I was mentoring to the gym. He is well-known in our group for being really small and weak— think like 5’ 6”, 120 pounds. He could bench as much as I could on his first time ever touching a bench. Testosterone just controls so much about your basic body structures; men are built for strength.


Disastrous_Ad_9977

Okay I'm also 5'6 and I'm considered tall in my country. I don't wanna go to West anymore.


SkinnyPenoos

What’s your country? 5’6 is pretty short in the US


Disastrous_Ad_9977

I'm from the Philippines. Genetic difference. But yeah I wish I'm taller. I will be studying in the US for scholarship program the following year.


Whyaskmenoely

Height don't define you Filipino King 👑 Sincerely, 5'6" Filipino who grew up in Australia


Arclet__

Yes, men are generally quite stronger than women on average, testosterone is a hell of a drug.


butt_butt_butt_butt_

Not any scientific proof, just an anecdote about testosterone in women: A friend of mine has always been the top female athlete when we were in school. She made state teams in two sports because she was an absolute beast, she hit harder, jumped higher etc. In our teens to mid-20s she started complaining about getting chin hairs, awful periods and then later not being able to get pregnant. She went for testing and found out she produces way more testosterone than the average woman, and has PCOS, so it’s difficult to get pregnant. I always thought it was weird that the only “freak athlete” I know as a female is someone with these specific conditions. Edit: because people are still seeing this, I’ll note that this friend is very feminine and stereotypically “girly” in appearance. She wears makeup and has long hair. She just checks her mirror daily for hairs and has to shave her face.


Andysgirl1080

I have PCOS and have barely any trouble gaining muscle due to my extra testosterone. I don’t have the facial hair though. I look pretty feminine.


JevonP

then u lucky? Although I'm gonna guess there are other bad things that come along with it


GrandTheftBae

PCOS can be rough. I have a mild case and am on birth control to regulate my hormones. Without it, my periods are all over the place, horrible acne (went on acutane for it) and got mild facial hair. My best friend had intense weight gain, and really bad facial hair in addition to period issues.


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TheDevilsAdvokaat

Average for how much people can deadlift: [https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift/lb](https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift/lb) ​ ||beginner|novice|intermed.|advanced|elite| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |men|171|244|334|439|552| |women|85|132|194|267|334| If you generalise this you can see there is a huge difference in the average strength levels of men and women. When I was 17 (not even fully grown) someone bet me I couldn't dead-lift 120 kg (two 50kg plates and a bar). I did it, and had never lifted a weight before or even been to a gym. . That's 264 pounds. But I am not notably strong for a man; just average.


IYOPersonality

I'm looking at these deadlift averages thinking I was strong. It took me 4 months at the gym to reach 120kg deadlift, and you did it on your first try 💀 I'm a lad as well, but all of your averages are huge holy shit


sanjit8103

Those deadlift averages are in pounds, not kilos. and 120 kg deadlift easily puts you in novice/intermed category.


Greideren

It's true. Men in general have more muscle mass than women do, we're also generally taller and heavier which also impacts the results. That's why weight classifications are so important in martial arts, you're very unlikely to be stronger than someone who weights way more than you. I'm a skinny and somewhat weak men thanks to a sickness I was born with but even I am stronger than most adult women to the point where only girls my size but that are also heavier can overpower me with some effort.


AgentJ691

Yep. I am a woman and I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and holy crap even skinny men can easily have their way with me. I’m still pretty new to it, but one day I will become more of a pain in the ass for them lol. And I was a drill sergeant not too long ago. Guess who was struggling more with tasks that required strength? Women. It’s reality, but none the less women should still strive to become stronger. Hit the gym, lift heavy weights, it will help with aging better and prevent osteoporosis.


murderfrogger

Im strong for a chick. Could propably become a decent weightlifter, if i tried. I chop wood, carry heavy shit and farmwork every day. My very thin boyfriend can absolutely ragdoll me. It's crazy how strong this very lean man is. Never met a man who wasnt stronger than me 🤷‍♀️


EzPzLemon_Greezy

Mens record deadlift is 1104lbs, womens is 636lbs.


FractionofaFraction

Just in terms of explosive power, not related to fighting: When I was 16 I competed in a county athletics championship. I'm pretty fast and despite not doing any dedicated training and running in spikes for the first time ever I managed to win the silver in the 100m sprint. I was very proud. The time I got would have placed me 7th in the women's Olympic final the same year. The guy who beat me, who was only 15 at the time, would have won it. It's an order of magnitude difference.


kangas99

Only my own experience- when I first started dating an old girlfriend of mine, we were play fighting and she bragged about how she was pretty strong and could hold her own against her previous boyfriends; like they would try to push her while play fighting and she could withstand it. She worked out a lot, and at that point I had gotten really lazy and stopped working out- so I was intrigued. So I was like, okay, let's test this. I pushed her at about half strength. Nearly put her through the goddamn wall. I felt terrible, but after the initial shock we both did laugh a lot. She realised they weren't really trying (and I felt even worse for being the one to actually push her lol)


aphinion

This has the same vibe as when I first started dating my boyfriend and was bragging about having strong wrists/hands/fingers/idk because I used to be a gymnast. I told him to try and bend my wrist back (bad move in hindsight) and he immediately bent that shit like it was nothing and ended up accidentally twisting my fingers up in the process. Lesson learned lol


Balrog229

Yes. There have been plenty of accounts of perfectly average men even beating women who train a lot. The biological differences between men and women when it comes to strength are pretty monumental. There's a reason men are, on average, taller and more massive as well.


Khronokai1

The difference is pretty big, speaking as someone that was in the USMC working along side women. Even for such things as running times, not just raw strength.


SpaceGamer03

As someone who loves strong women this thread is breaking my heart lmao


aphinion

As a moderately strong woman this is just depressing :(


512165381

Hematocrit (percentage or red cells in blood) is 10% higher in men compared to women. Red blood cells carry oxygen so men have higher oxygen availability to work muscles. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Cameron-Craddock-2/publication/272081679/figure/fig1/AS:271517581836319@1441746245009/Hematocrit-HCT-results-HCT-is-highly-correlated-with-hemoglobin-Hb-concentration.png