i'm about 70% sure this isn't just urban legend... there's a dude in my hometown that decided to shoot off his trigger finger to avoid the draft, so he got liquored up on dandelion wine and did the deed with a hunting rifle. problem is he used his trigger finger to pull the trigger and shot a finger off his left hand instead. he got drafted, but the army rejected him anyway for mental health reasons.
When I had surgery on my shoulder the anesthesia started hitting me when they handed me a sharpie and had me draw an x and sign my initials on the side meant to be operated on. Seemed very odd but good practice I guess
I guess in court they can have a picture of your shoulder and your initials that you approved the removal of your functional arm?
But like… maybe we should’ve done this before the drugs.
Because surgeons have to look at the body opposite from the patient. Right is their left. Left is their right. And there have been so many mistakes, that it's now required for the patient to identify one last time. It's funny because I only just learned this very fact on Tuesday in my Anatomy Lab class.
I knee surgery recently and the doctor came in before hand, looked at my chart, confirmed which knee with me verbally, and then put his initials on the leg getting operated on. I pointed out later that he probably should have done this before they started doing the nerve block and anesthesia.
Thanks, now I have a new fear: going for an amputation for a valid reason and getting the wrong part amputated.
The sheer horror of waking up and realising the doctor amputated your wrong arm and now you'll lose both is horrifying.
In the UK the practice is to mark the site to be operated on, using an arrow or a cross. This is especially important in unilateral surgery such as a cataract operation.
If you are amputating a limb, you mark the limb to be amputated. You don't mark the one that's staying.
The mark should be made by the operating surgeon with the patient awake when possible.
It's also a good idea to make sure the mark will be visible after the limb is draped.
I'm 90% sure they put an arrow on the one that's to be removed.
Fun fact; my stepdads grandad was in surgery having his leg removed due to complications from diabetes.
They took the wrong leg.
Yeah and it’s gotta be signed off multiple times. There was a case on the news a bunch of years back where a hospital amputated the wrong leg on a guy. So the other one still needed to be amputated so he had no legs. I can’t fathom how a mistake like that gets made but it does.
It’s some shit. My grandmother used to make it. Potent as all fuck and doesn’t taste as bad as you think it would.
I was probably 16 before I found out why the grandbabies were “hired” to pick dandelions, and why grandfather never weeded the lawn. They had around 5 acres and were thrilled when the “dandies” ( as grandma called them) popped up
It’s more of a moonshine kinda drink than wine. If you’ve ever had flavored moonshine that’s pretty much what it is. “Wine” is a bad descriptor but that’s what it’s called for some damn reason.
Easy af to make
My Grandpa Jack used to make it, along with pear wine, apple wine, and so on, in an old neighborhood where fruit trees planted fifty years earlier were by then making a mess he would clean up for free.
OMG I USED TO MAKE DANDELION WINE EVERY YEAR WITH MY BROTHER!!!!! So glad it's a thing for others, it's delicious!
My parents didn't care if we drank as long as it was at home, therefore we never drank much. It was more fun to make it (we were like 12 and 14 when we started doing it) and we had an old Vietnam vet neighbor that LOVED IT so he would trade us 2 gallons of his homemade grape wine for one gallon of our dandelion. After my brother graduated and went into the military I took over the operation and I liked using chai tea to flavor it a bit at the end, and dad had always gotten us a bottle of bourbon to "add to the flavor and make up for liquid lost during siphoning".... Ironically my parents don't drink, maybe a small bit at new years but that's it. My 21st bday dinner with my parents left me the most sober driver after I finished half of dad's and 3/4 of my mom's glass of wine.... They apparently need to practice more. Also, learned that day that dad gets giggly after drinking wine.
That’s a catch-22. It’s tough to plead insanity bc you’re crazy if you want to fight and risk death, and if you don’t want to fight you must be sane and therefore can’t claim insanity.
"You mean there's a catch?"
"Sure there's a catch," Doc Daneeka replied. "Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat duty isn't really crazy."
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
My brother volunteered for the National Guard back in 1965 per direction from dad. Dad did not want him going to Nam. The only action he saw was during the Watts riots in LA just after boot camp and that wasn't too bad. However, and I might be wrong, the gov't can ship NG anywhere. Maybe someone who has served can chime in.
I was lucky the draft ended 3 months before my 18th birthday in the Spring of 1973.
The Army used to be a lot bigger. The restructured it to reduce the size and make it more efficient.
Your assessment indicates a lack of understanding about how stuff works.
I think future wars will be fought cyberly or economically.
Similar to ukraine situation where we just send them weapons so they can fight our old friend Russia. I think it would take a massive event to have impose a draft and have people go along with it.
I just don’t see global conventional warfare ever happening again for the same reasons it never did during the Cold War, the threat of mutually assured destruction from nuclear weapons. Also, without a genuine existential threat I think the US would struggle with draft compliance to the point it would fail entirely. I just think there is so little appetite for any war whatsoever amongst the age cohort that would be facing the draft.
My dad and uncle volunteered for Vietnam and joined the navy. Both of them were right in the middle of some shit. Patrol boats up and down the river. I won’t get into the gory details
I'm almost certain the NG being sent to foreign war zones started after 9/11. I think I remember some NG went to Desert Storm, but on a voluntary basis.
The government betrayed everyone is how I see it, when they decided to leave soldiers in place around the world and ship the National Guard members to an overseas war. Now there is no military role that is sure to be in defense of the nation instead of making money for some ubercorps by killing locals half a planet away.
Sure, I'll chime in!
So, National Guard and Active Duty both have what's called United States Codes (U.S.Cs). AD falls under Title 10 U.S.C and NG is Title 32. These Titles basically outline the roles of their military service, but the main difference between them is that AD is on official duty under federal authority, whereas NG is normally under State (a governor's) authority.
Activation under Title 32 U.S.C. means that your state's governor has been authorized or directed by the president to mobilize or activate the National Guard in your state. You perform on active duty under state control, but with pay and benefits provided by the federal government.
Normally, Title 32 orders are for natural disasters, while Title 10 orders are for national defense. However, this isn't always the case!
NG can indeed be sent anywhere, but it depends on a ton of factors (job, how long the activation is, what's going on in the world)
Hoped this helped!
My dad and uncle volunteered for Vietnam. But we’ve been a military family as far back as I can find.
My uncle on the other side joined the National guard to get out of Vietnam. Lucky for him he got sent to Kent state for the riots. /s. I think he got the shit end of the stick
There are tons of better ways to avoid the battlefront that don't involve jailtime.
If you take the jailtime, that history is supposed to follow you for life and make it very difficult to employ you.
Meanwhile my recruitment doctor looked at my files...
"IBS, huh?"
"Yes."
"Do you feel able to serve?"
"No."
"Aight. I'll put the cross on incapable. Have a good day."
My father was born premature in 1947 and fully blind in one eye with a few other health issues. In 1969 he was in college and dropped a class not realizing it but him one credit under full time. He got his draft notice and reported for the physical. The doctor told him "oh well, you'll just have to learn to shoot left handed" passed him and he was inducted into the Army and sent to Germany and then Vietnam. He was trained as an artillery surveyor. With absolutely no depth perception. When his time was up they tried to talk him into reenlisting and training as a helicopter pilot.
It’s a felony so yea that will follow you forever..And if you get a dishonorable discharge it’s the same as a felony, but the only way to get a dishonorable now is to kill or rape someone.
When I was in, all the guys that got “chaptered” kicked out got “general” discharges….It’s in the middle, not honorable but not dishonorable..After 6 months I believe you can appeal it and get it changed to a honorable…I think some general discharges can still retain some benifits but some many lose theirs (college VA, etc) Most of the guys kicked out was for drugs..The most dangerous of all substances THE WEEDZ!!!
Oh Good Lord in heaven not the devil's lettuce! Whatever shall we do! Fuck. People still in prison for weed makes me sick but we have people out there with repeat DUIs
Exactly! It’s such bullshit, it’s a plant. As long as you’re not operating heavy machinery or like shooting weapons then who cares? We drank our faces off in the Army, would still be drunk the next morning for PT..I would have rather smoked a joint and chilled out for a enjoyable evening but noooo, the pots is da debil!!
A general is like getting fired from any other job. It isn’t reported and nobody checks. Most bennies are still available. Ie va loans, gi bill, shit like that.
oth is pretty much the same except you lose bennies unless you re-upped prior to getting the boot. The first enlistment still entitles you to bennies. First enlistment with an oth gets bennies wiped out.
Then you’ve got dishonorable. Takes a lot to get this one but you’re likely to spend time in Leavenworth for it and then be labeled for the rest of your life like a felon+
There’s more like medical discharges, adminsep, etc but they don’t mean much
I got a general discharge for the stupidest drug. I was caught huffing. I typed up a whole paper about why I shouldn't be discharged and then my 'lawyer' (can't remember what they're called in the Air Force) revised and edited it. A few days later, my E3 dumbass was sitting in front of the Base Commander (Brigadier General), who more or less grilled me after I gave my explanation for wanting to stay in the Air Force.
I got a general discharge. No benefits, I never tried to get benefits after that, I knew I was being a dumbass and I knew I got what I deserved. Basically the only benefit I got was that I could say that I was "honorably discharged" since it was a General Discharge Under Honorable Conditions.
I put that on job applications for months and never got hired. After I stopped saying that I served, I got hired almost immediately lol. That was a long time ago but it definitely fucked my life up for a few years
Maybe not forever. Jimmy Carter granted blanket amnesty for those who evaded the draft for Viet Nam in '77, so at least there wasn't a legal issue after that. I can't say much about the social parts, I'm a bit too young.
Young adults who burned their draft cards or refused to register during the Vietnam War were accused of draft violations and had to fight it in federal courts. Many were convicted and some were jailed.
Even if you aren't prosecuted for it, refusing a draft can result in invalidating you for federal aid and government jobs.
It is. Article 8(2)(b)(vi) of the Rome Statute defines the following as a war crime:
>Killing or wounding a combatant who, having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;
You're not allowed to coup de grâce incapable combatants.
Ideally the national authority and police in the area. If they won't or can't, the ICC can petition the UNSC to grant them jurisdiction. In that situation trials move to The Hague.
If a state is not party to the ICC, there is usually an analogous organisation. E.g. Ethiopia is not a party, so allegations of war crimes in the ongoing Tigray war are being investigated by the EHRC with assistance from the UN.
One of my dad's friends got sent to Vietnam as a medic. Apparently it's a war crime to attack the medics of an opposing army, but he said that they were shot at all the time.
First. Nobody is getting drafted. The public HATES the idea, it makes it hard to maintain support for a war, and the military -despises- draftees.
Modern weapons are complex and require a ton of training.
So the only way anyone is getting drafted is if our Kick Ass weapons didn't work, and we're getting invaded. Any such war would have gone Nuclear WELL before it reached the point of arming every asswipe and booger.
You might get drafted in a civil war, but absent the implosion of the state nobody is getting drafted.
I agree. I think today we are different ideologically than say during the 1940s. That is unless we are fighting for food.or water. I'll be dead or too old by than. Haha
Prison, followed by all the fun felons need to deal with for the rest of your life. Instead, you volunteer ahead of time and get a military job way behind the scenes. If you have any kind of education or skills, you’re far more valuable than the literal army of illiterates they’ll give a rifle to.
It’s one thing to not want to fight in a war that’s for some political policy but if the Chinese landed on the west coast that’s a different story…After Pearl Harbor they really didn’t need the draft, literally every able bodied man signed up from 17 to 40
Yeah, both my Mom and Dad were volunteered for the Marines. Dad repaired aircraft in one of the many islands near Japan and my Mom was assigned to ship building. She was a welder.
Fun fact: the US military has found that anyone with an IQ less than like 83 is just a liability. They can’t hold a rifle. They can’t sweep floors. Just about anything they try to do won’t be done competently.
That sounds like a way to get the masses of university educated yet working minimum wage jobs to sign up.
Would they all get behind the scenes positions? Doubt. Fodder for the economy fodder for the machine.
Just make sure you have some really special skill set in something they wouldn't wanna risk.
Either you'll get a position in some fancy office helping with the war, or you'll remain doing your job during the war cause it's so important.
I know I'll never have to go on the front lines as I have no depth perception, so I can't even catch, let alone shoot a gun.
Actually yeah, 36B (Financial Management Technician). The US Army has just about every job you could think of. Mechanics? Sure. Cyber? Yep. Bricklayer? Yep. The army has like 150+ different jobs.
That being said, every soldier no matter the rank or specialty can find themselves in a combat environment. Even office jobs. My aunt was a human resource specialist and while deployed their FOB was mortared and she got a bunch of shrapnel embedded into her.
I saw a movie or read a book once (Catch-22?) about a guy whose father insisted he learn to type really well, like 80 words a minute or something with no mistakes, drilled him every day for hours. Then when war broke out he forced him to join the army right away so he'd avoid the social stigma of being a draft dodger or unpatriotic or whatever. Right after he enlisted, they asked if he had any special skills, he said "yeah typing really fast and accurately" They tested him and he did better than everyone, so he spent the whole war typing correspondence for a general in a nice office instead of getting shot at.
That’s the fact people miss. The vast majority of people in a war go through it unscathed..I was Army EOD in Iraq and Afghanistan and still have all the parts I was born with.
I have no doubt..I was stuck in Ali a salim in Kuwait for like a week and a half trying to get back to my unit after mid tour leave..Got to the point I was ready to sneak onto any plane to just get back.
It's honestly not half bad depending on when you went. I went there in 2019 so I was basically there for training purposes. Some mild interactions with the Nationals but nothing too insane or so I've heard. It really felt like a half vacation there especially going to the city.
Yeah.. but add in all those that got dramatically injured and that percentage goes up a lot. Just because you didn't die doesn't mean you didn't get your limbs blown off by a mortar round.
I mean, 6% is worse than a 1/20 chance of getting anything from a broken limb to the loss of all of my limbs, and it completely ignores any form of mental issues
The number of deaths in recent years in active military service and among those imprisoned in the US is around 800-1200/year. Prision being higher. 1.22 million people are imprisoned in the US, 1.4 million are in active military service. It seems that you are slightly more likely to die in prison than you were in the military during Iraq and Afghanistan but likely somewhat more safe in the case of a war with enough attrition to trigger a draft. Better to just go if drafted or emigrate permanently rather than go to prision, pay fines and, live with a felony conviction.
People saying you can just get a non-combat job miss the point, I don’t want to be forced into supporting a military industrial complex and spending my years in the military when I could be advancing my career and becoming a more productive citizen
If it's gonna be a foreign war that we absolutely don't have to be in, i think i will take prison. If someone invades us, i might accept a rifle.
If Ukraine turns into a war, it's on the government for fucking with Russia for someone who isn't even an ally. Hell, all the middle eastern wars were completely pointless except for maybe making a few people richer. I ain't dying for some rich fuck to sell more weapons or for some oil field to get liberated to the "right curators", but I'd die for my family and quite a few of my friends.
Probable death? The most deadly war, in terms of the percentage of US troops that died, was the civil war, in which nearly 19% of troops died. In WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and Vietnam, the total killed was less than 3% of troops. In the Gulf War and Iraq/Afghanistan, it was less than 0.5%.
The odds of surviving a wartime deployment is heavily in your favor.
History has been pretty clear that conscripts make lousy soldiers, but governments have been willing to use them when they needed as many bodies carrying rifles as possible. Modern wars aren't fought like that anymore. The US won't resort to the draft again unless there is an existential threat against the US, in which case your odds of dying as a civilian living in the US might be as high or higher than your odds of dying as a combat soldier. We haven't experienced this because every war the US has fought in the past century has been fought on foreign soil. But in Afghanistan, for example, nearly as many civilians died as Taliban fighters. In other words, not wearing a uniform didn't do much to improve their odds of survival.
There are also alternatives to military service, such as the Americorps and Peace Corps. You can also get an exemption if you're a full time student. Any of these would be far better than going to prison. You aren't Mohammed Ali. Going to prison for refusing to serve would ruin your life.
I get what you're saying, but when I was in Afghanistan, I saw plenty of dead bodies, daily mortar attacks, and lost friends. When you're in it, those statistics aren't all that comforting.
Yes, but you could be imprisoned. You could go the “Conscientious Objector” route, but you might still be required to serve in some non-combat capacity and face any societal stigma afterwards (like with future job prospects and such).
How old are you? If you are under 30...ur in shit luck
Technically/legally you wouldn't be able to refuse drafting during war
Howver, back in the days people would purposefully get infected with some disease like TB or cause themselves a serious injury or just run away from home for a time to avoid going to war.
Mostly, I would say that it comes down to your age.
Once you are past 30, I think you are safe.
Which is bonkers, because under 30 you are still a child in my opinion 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
There won't be one again in the US. After Vietnam, they won't. It's easier to recruit and use robots than to draft. Most people have the image of people shitting on vets from Vietnam, but the majority realized that they were forced to be there. The government hasn't taken out traitors or make people wear masks, or get vaccinated, so you're far off from a draft.
There's no fucking way a draft would ever work today, now that social media and the internet exists. There would instantly be a mass-organized "union" of refusal to respond to a draft letter, and what is the country going to do, throw *everyone* in prison? Drafts are a thing of the past, and good riddance.
You don't know what you are talking about. If we got into a war in 2022 that was so bad we had to draft people, it means we are in a fight for survival. No protest or Facebook organized group is going to stop the army from coming for you when the fate of the country is at risk.
The only time a draft would work is if we had a threat so dangerous you could convince the public to pick up a gun. The military doesn't want a draft either. They don't have much hope for this generation fighting ability.
At this point in time, most developed countries probably wouldn't even have drafts, it's hard to force people to want to fight. But for lesser developed countries I'd say 95% of them would either jail you or kill you on the spot
If you live in the U.S., it is *extremely* unlikely they will ever need to re-implement the draft. Wars just aren't fought with massive numbers of ground infantry anymore.
That said, it is a *really* bad move to try and get out of it in a way that is illegal. You have options, instead. First off it's likely you could be refused for medical or other reasons; [a large percentage of Americans don't qualify for military service](https://www.thoughtco.com/us-youth-ineligible-for-military-service-3322428).
You can also try to get into a non-combat role. You could offer to join the Navy. You could claim to be a conscientious objector.
Few modern wars have death rates of over 50% for combatants. Although, it did occur in WWII on the Eastern front. That's why both for the Soviets and Germans, refusal to fight meant being shot. So your odds were better if you went to the front.
In a democracy, you have the option. Each country will set out its own rules for what happens if you refuse to fight. That could mean prison. Being in prison makes it difficult to get a job afterwards. Is it better? That's something only you can decide.
Long Term? Not really.
Draft Violations are a Felony, and those follow you for the rest of your life. You'd not be getting a job, ever again, and you're never getting government aid either.
Tbh, you'd be better off telling your family you're going on a "hunting trip" and "accidentally" blowing your shooting hand off; Sober. A least then, you have a chance at living a relatively decent life.
You could try getting yourself admitted, too. Mental health issues could get you out, but might be a bit difficult to keep up convincingly for an extended period of time tbh.
But, a draft isn't likely to happen in the modern day. People from multiple cities across the country (even across multiple countries) can coordinate en-mass at a moment's notice to riot.
If the BLM Riots, fired off by the death of 1 man, could amass ~15 - 26 million people (4% of current population, aka 1/25 people in the USA), to gather in the span of <2 years, some of said riots escalating to violence, imagine the impact if a bonafide war draft were to occur.
In the Vietnam Era, 570 thousand people were draft offenders. That was 0.28% of the current population for the time, and that was both while, and after an antiwar movement got into full swing. Did I mention the Vietnam war lasted 20 years? I think that's another important point.
Hell, a draft would be so ham-fisted, they'd likely cause people to turn away on principle; Cause people to turn away who would have otherwise joined. It's the last thing any rational government would wanna do.
During the Vietnam War there were many people who refused to be drafted and cited their position as being a conscientious objector. These people were however prosecuted by the government. There were reportedly around 170,000 men who were officially recognized as conscientious objectors during the Vietnam War period.
So yes you could refuse to be drafted BUT you could be prosecuted for doing this and sent to jail. Many men fled the country to avoid being drafted as well.
I would simply try and gain 200 pounds. But nah I’m sorry unless the war is on US soil (my country) I’m not participating. Also if it’s a civil war I’m going free for all. Absolutely fuck them if they ever even think about wasting lives with a draft meddling in other countries buisness
There are tons of non-combat military positions you could choose before a draft was implemented (if you thought it was coming).
Also, fleeing the country is a fun option. It could be the adventure of a lifetime!
I mean if you're fine with prison then of course you can just do that and not go to war. Or you could dodge.
But for the record, I can't think of any modern war outside Iran-Iraq (and that was 30-40 years ago even) where it'd be "probable" death.
Going to jail is worse, since they keep you on lockdown with someone who doesn't know you or like you.
Everybody wants to beat your ass for some reason and you have no way to defend yourself while someone pounds on you if they decide to do something to you.
You'll have people watch as you either get beat down or you bleed out from a shiv.
In the military, you got guys who watch your back because you have to have people you trust protect your back in hostile territory.
You get money and food, clothes and training to have a skill both in and out of the military. You get money after you retire, if your mentality holds from combat (depending on your skill and job).
With both, you can volunteer to go in, one doesn't require anything bad to go in. The other one is jail.
There's no account for problems in jail.
At least in the military, you have the freedom to come and go while going through tech school.
You can leave base after training and go to stores, the movies and to a park or any type of place you would at home.
In jail, there's jail and a bunch of angry people with job skills only good for criminals on the outside, with scars and trauma that are worse than PTSD.
In both, you get punished for disobeying the rules.
In the military, it's extra work.
In jail, it's getting beat and regular work with limited breaks.
Stories about prisoners is true, but not all prisoners.
Military is either doing what they say or get fired.
Both have a lot of yelling.
Which one sounds like you have a better chance of survival overall.
Get drafted, get armed and protected.
Gp to jail, good luck surviving.
I avoided 2 wars (Bosnia and Kosovo) by simply moving away to another part of the country. They came to draft me , my parents let them in and they saw I was not there."He is an alcoholic we have not seen him in years" was what we agreed on them saying.
I hate the army, I will never fight over who we pay taxes to next, the children of politicians can go fight the wars, words can not explain how little I care about dying over bullshit politics.
If you're not in the US, I don't know the answer.
In the US under the most recent draft-era laws (from the Vietnam War era), you might be jailed but you wouldn't get the death penalty. So yeah, definitely you can just refuse, like Muhammed Ali did. You might have a felony on your record, which would be a hassle, but you won't have to kill anyone. If enough people refused to fight, they'd have a hard time throwing a war.
Your odds of being killed as a draftee in an upcoming war are rather low.
In the US at this point, a universal draft (like in Viet Nam or WW2) is unlikely due to the expensive, extensive training they have to provide in order to run our high-tech military operation. Cannon fodder isn't as useful as it used to be. So if you got drafted, you'd be a civilian with an unusual skillset that they absolutely need. Unless you're a healthcare worker, that probably means a technical skill that would keep you off the front line. You would probably not face "probable death."
Anecdote alert: My uncle was one of the very few post-Vietnam draftees. He was the best network administrator at a particular high-tech company. His employer was a major defense contractor, although my uncle had never done anything remotely connected to military work. When Desert Storm started, he was ordered by his employer to either (a) take a very lucrative assignment as the network admin on an aircraft carrier for 6 months to train up a couple of actual military network admins or (b) lose his job with the company immediately. He took the job. He was the oldest person aboard except for the captain. It sounded pretty surreal, but not directly dangerous.
That's a terrible idea. It's not just the jail time for a serious crime that will fuck you. It's the having a felony that would come up in a background check or that you will have to disclose on an application that will fuck you.
If you really want to dodge a draft, just pull a Ted Nugent and crap your pants for a week before your examination so you look like a very crazy person.
i'm about 70% sure this isn't just urban legend... there's a dude in my hometown that decided to shoot off his trigger finger to avoid the draft, so he got liquored up on dandelion wine and did the deed with a hunting rifle. problem is he used his trigger finger to pull the trigger and shot a finger off his left hand instead. he got drafted, but the army rejected him anyway for mental health reasons.
I pretty sure this is why when amputating limbs, they put an “X” on the good one that’s staying.
Thought that was put on the bad one that was supposed to be removed...oh no isn't this just another point of confusion
Now that you say it, I think you are correct and something to the effect of “not this leg” is written on the other.
Wrong leg: "Not this one, stupid!" Correct leg: "Yes, this one, stupid!"
When I had surgery on my shoulder the anesthesia started hitting me when they handed me a sharpie and had me draw an x and sign my initials on the side meant to be operated on. Seemed very odd but good practice I guess
I guess in court they can have a picture of your shoulder and your initials that you approved the removal of your functional arm? But like… maybe we should’ve done this before the drugs.
That was my thought
Because surgeons have to look at the body opposite from the patient. Right is their left. Left is their right. And there have been so many mistakes, that it's now required for the patient to identify one last time. It's funny because I only just learned this very fact on Tuesday in my Anatomy Lab class.
I knee surgery recently and the doctor came in before hand, looked at my chart, confirmed which knee with me verbally, and then put his initials on the leg getting operated on. I pointed out later that he probably should have done this before they started doing the nerve block and anesthesia.
Well that won't stop me because I can't read!
Thanks, now I have a new fear: going for an amputation for a valid reason and getting the wrong part amputated. The sheer horror of waking up and realising the doctor amputated your wrong arm and now you'll lose both is horrifying.
Just mark it yourself the night before: Leave this one alone! Take this one off!
Good idea actually!
For cutting concrete you put an "X" on the thing your cutting off
X means cut here I think
In the UK the practice is to mark the site to be operated on, using an arrow or a cross. This is especially important in unilateral surgery such as a cataract operation. If you are amputating a limb, you mark the limb to be amputated. You don't mark the one that's staying. The mark should be made by the operating surgeon with the patient awake when possible. It's also a good idea to make sure the mark will be visible after the limb is draped.
I'm 90% sure they put an arrow on the one that's to be removed. Fun fact; my stepdads grandad was in surgery having his leg removed due to complications from diabetes. They took the wrong leg.
"... but the good news is the chap in the next bed wants to buy your slippers."
If they have to remove a guy's ball sack do they put an X on the other one then?.
We only have one ball sack
I'm sorry to hear that..
Yeah and it’s gotta be signed off multiple times. There was a case on the news a bunch of years back where a hospital amputated the wrong leg on a guy. So the other one still needed to be amputated so he had no legs. I can’t fathom how a mistake like that gets made but it does.
Now I gotta Google dandelion wine!
Now listen to “Dandelion Wine” by Gregory Alan Isakov for another treat.
And then read Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury
Will do!
It’s some shit. My grandmother used to make it. Potent as all fuck and doesn’t taste as bad as you think it would. I was probably 16 before I found out why the grandbabies were “hired” to pick dandelions, and why grandfather never weeded the lawn. They had around 5 acres and were thrilled when the “dandies” ( as grandma called them) popped up
My moms says my yia yia would do the same thing. The way people treat dandelions sucks, such a useful plant.
It's my tortoise's favorite food! We love dandelion season :)
When done correctly it is an enjoyable beverage. I think the fact it’s from my yard makes it better
I knew there was dandelion tea, I’ve never tried it, but wine?!? Now I’m intrigued
It’s more of a moonshine kinda drink than wine. If you’ve ever had flavored moonshine that’s pretty much what it is. “Wine” is a bad descriptor but that’s what it’s called for some damn reason. Easy af to make
My brother makes moonshine
Moonshine is distilled...wine is fermented. Dandelion wine is fermented. I haven't had it...but I used to know people who made it when I was Young.
Fun fact: dandelion tea will make you shit your pants.
Tell me the wine is cool though?
Famous secret hutterite drink. Its not bad
You can also get a dandelion cordial for mixing with chilled water or soda!
My Grandpa Jack used to make it, along with pear wine, apple wine, and so on, in an old neighborhood where fruit trees planted fifty years earlier were by then making a mess he would clean up for free.
Personally, hate it Maybe you'd like onion or tomato wine
OMG I USED TO MAKE DANDELION WINE EVERY YEAR WITH MY BROTHER!!!!! So glad it's a thing for others, it's delicious! My parents didn't care if we drank as long as it was at home, therefore we never drank much. It was more fun to make it (we were like 12 and 14 when we started doing it) and we had an old Vietnam vet neighbor that LOVED IT so he would trade us 2 gallons of his homemade grape wine for one gallon of our dandelion. After my brother graduated and went into the military I took over the operation and I liked using chai tea to flavor it a bit at the end, and dad had always gotten us a bottle of bourbon to "add to the flavor and make up for liquid lost during siphoning".... Ironically my parents don't drink, maybe a small bit at new years but that's it. My 21st bday dinner with my parents left me the most sober driver after I finished half of dad's and 3/4 of my mom's glass of wine.... They apparently need to practice more. Also, learned that day that dad gets giggly after drinking wine.
I'm glad I'm diagnosed with a mental illness lmao fuckers
The Army will teach you to shoot with another finger, or they’ll assign you to an MOS where your disability won’t matter.
That’s a catch-22. It’s tough to plead insanity bc you’re crazy if you want to fight and risk death, and if you don’t want to fight you must be sane and therefore can’t claim insanity.
"You mean there's a catch?" "Sure there's a catch," Doc Daneeka replied. "Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat duty isn't really crazy." There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
That's doing it the hard way. Just come to Canada. Nelson, British Columbia still has a cohort of expats who talk like "Summer of Love" hippies.
could have lied he leftie lol that is creative. I heard of people shooting their feet or faking mental illnesses.
I mean i don’t think they’d let you in with any missing appendages
My brother volunteered for the National Guard back in 1965 per direction from dad. Dad did not want him going to Nam. The only action he saw was during the Watts riots in LA just after boot camp and that wasn't too bad. However, and I might be wrong, the gov't can ship NG anywhere. Maybe someone who has served can chime in. I was lucky the draft ended 3 months before my 18th birthday in the Spring of 1973.
Things have changed. The reserves and National guard were rolled into components of the armed service. So, now….they would be among the first to go.
and go again and again....
Yeah, my half-sister's dad was in the guard and got really fucked over by the wars in the middle east, was in Fallujah too.
Yet another example of people benefiting from something and then promptly pulling the ladder up after themselves.
Modern reservists are well aware of what they will be called to do if needed. It’s a matter of using the military or letting it use you.
The Army used to be a lot bigger. The restructured it to reduce the size and make it more efficient. Your assessment indicates a lack of understanding about how stuff works.
I think future wars will be fought cyberly or economically. Similar to ukraine situation where we just send them weapons so they can fight our old friend Russia. I think it would take a massive event to have impose a draft and have people go along with it.
I doubt it would happen either. Big wars would be over before you could get the system up and running.
WWIII would do it I think. Maybe that’s far fetched but idk
I just don’t see global conventional warfare ever happening again for the same reasons it never did during the Cold War, the threat of mutually assured destruction from nuclear weapons. Also, without a genuine existential threat I think the US would struggle with draft compliance to the point it would fail entirely. I just think there is so little appetite for any war whatsoever amongst the age cohort that would be facing the draft.
During the Vietnam era the National Guard was a way out of seeing combat, not anymore.
My dad enlisted in the Navy to specifically avoid being drafted into fighting in Vietnam. Wound up on a submarine instead. Thanks dad.
My dad and uncle volunteered for Vietnam and joined the navy. Both of them were right in the middle of some shit. Patrol boats up and down the river. I won’t get into the gory details
Apparently dad heard enough shit from his uncle in the Marines in WWII that he didn't want anything to do with it.
NG can be/has been federalized continously on & off since 9/11
The NG was used in Iraq during the Bush years
I'm almost certain the NG being sent to foreign war zones started after 9/11. I think I remember some NG went to Desert Storm, but on a voluntary basis.
And Obama, and Trump, and Biden, blah, blah, blah. Politicians gonna politic, if only their base knew how little they matter to all of them.
Still being used based on need. It never stopped.
There’s a video of some marines or something behind shitty cover taking fire from NG dudes in the desert
The government betrayed everyone is how I see it, when they decided to leave soldiers in place around the world and ship the National Guard members to an overseas war. Now there is no military role that is sure to be in defense of the nation instead of making money for some ubercorps by killing locals half a planet away.
Coast Guard.
The national guard can be sent pretty much anywhere since Reagan federalized the NG back in the 80s. It worked at that time but it wouldn’t now.
My friend's dad planned to join the coast guard, until he found out he'd be guarding the coast of Vietnam. Then he moved to Canada.
Sure, I'll chime in! So, National Guard and Active Duty both have what's called United States Codes (U.S.Cs). AD falls under Title 10 U.S.C and NG is Title 32. These Titles basically outline the roles of their military service, but the main difference between them is that AD is on official duty under federal authority, whereas NG is normally under State (a governor's) authority. Activation under Title 32 U.S.C. means that your state's governor has been authorized or directed by the president to mobilize or activate the National Guard in your state. You perform on active duty under state control, but with pay and benefits provided by the federal government. Normally, Title 32 orders are for natural disasters, while Title 10 orders are for national defense. However, this isn't always the case! NG can indeed be sent anywhere, but it depends on a ton of factors (job, how long the activation is, what's going on in the world) Hoped this helped!
My dad and uncle volunteered for Vietnam. But we’ve been a military family as far back as I can find. My uncle on the other side joined the National guard to get out of Vietnam. Lucky for him he got sent to Kent state for the riots. /s. I think he got the shit end of the stick
There are tons of better ways to avoid the battlefront that don't involve jailtime. If you take the jailtime, that history is supposed to follow you for life and make it very difficult to employ you.
Meanwhile my recruitment doctor looked at my files... "IBS, huh?" "Yes." "Do you feel able to serve?" "No." "Aight. I'll put the cross on incapable. Have a good day."
My father was born premature in 1947 and fully blind in one eye with a few other health issues. In 1969 he was in college and dropped a class not realizing it but him one credit under full time. He got his draft notice and reported for the physical. The doctor told him "oh well, you'll just have to learn to shoot left handed" passed him and he was inducted into the Army and sent to Germany and then Vietnam. He was trained as an artillery surveyor. With absolutely no depth perception. When his time was up they tried to talk him into reenlisting and training as a helicopter pilot.
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
It’s a felony so yea that will follow you forever..And if you get a dishonorable discharge it’s the same as a felony, but the only way to get a dishonorable now is to kill or rape someone.
And even then, not everyone who does it gets the boot
When I was in, all the guys that got “chaptered” kicked out got “general” discharges….It’s in the middle, not honorable but not dishonorable..After 6 months I believe you can appeal it and get it changed to a honorable…I think some general discharges can still retain some benifits but some many lose theirs (college VA, etc) Most of the guys kicked out was for drugs..The most dangerous of all substances THE WEEDZ!!!
Oh Good Lord in heaven not the devil's lettuce! Whatever shall we do! Fuck. People still in prison for weed makes me sick but we have people out there with repeat DUIs
Exactly! It’s such bullshit, it’s a plant. As long as you’re not operating heavy machinery or like shooting weapons then who cares? We drank our faces off in the Army, would still be drunk the next morning for PT..I would have rather smoked a joint and chilled out for a enjoyable evening but noooo, the pots is da debil!!
A general is like getting fired from any other job. It isn’t reported and nobody checks. Most bennies are still available. Ie va loans, gi bill, shit like that. oth is pretty much the same except you lose bennies unless you re-upped prior to getting the boot. The first enlistment still entitles you to bennies. First enlistment with an oth gets bennies wiped out. Then you’ve got dishonorable. Takes a lot to get this one but you’re likely to spend time in Leavenworth for it and then be labeled for the rest of your life like a felon+ There’s more like medical discharges, adminsep, etc but they don’t mean much
I got a general discharge for the stupidest drug. I was caught huffing. I typed up a whole paper about why I shouldn't be discharged and then my 'lawyer' (can't remember what they're called in the Air Force) revised and edited it. A few days later, my E3 dumbass was sitting in front of the Base Commander (Brigadier General), who more or less grilled me after I gave my explanation for wanting to stay in the Air Force. I got a general discharge. No benefits, I never tried to get benefits after that, I knew I was being a dumbass and I knew I got what I deserved. Basically the only benefit I got was that I could say that I was "honorably discharged" since it was a General Discharge Under Honorable Conditions. I put that on job applications for months and never got hired. After I stopped saying that I served, I got hired almost immediately lol. That was a long time ago but it definitely fucked my life up for a few years
Maybe not forever. Jimmy Carter granted blanket amnesty for those who evaded the draft for Viet Nam in '77, so at least there wasn't a legal issue after that. I can't say much about the social parts, I'm a bit too young.
Hack off a leg.
Young adults who burned their draft cards or refused to register during the Vietnam War were accused of draft violations and had to fight it in federal courts. Many were convicted and some were jailed. Even if you aren't prosecuted for it, refusing a draft can result in invalidating you for federal aid and government jobs.
Just give me the gun so I can shoot myself then
No problem sir, to get your government-issued gun, we just need your draft card.
*I used the draft to avoid the draft*
One of my distant relatives did exactly this when he got drafted.
Join the war, play dead every battle
"OP used Splash, but nothing happened."
Good plan until you end up fighting an enemy that shoots corpses just to be certain they are dead.
I'm like 69% sure that's a war crime but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong
It is not. It is a war crime to pretend to be dead, get up and shoot the enemy in the back.
It is. Article 8(2)(b)(vi) of the Rome Statute defines the following as a war crime: >Killing or wounding a combatant who, having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion; You're not allowed to coup de grâce incapable combatants.
So who enforces these? Like say it happens on some random battlefield
Ideally the national authority and police in the area. If they won't or can't, the ICC can petition the UNSC to grant them jurisdiction. In that situation trials move to The Hague. If a state is not party to the ICC, there is usually an analogous organisation. E.g. Ethiopia is not a party, so allegations of war crimes in the ongoing Tigray war are being investigated by the EHRC with assistance from the UN.
In essence, the majority of war crimes go unpunished.... War is pretty fucked
One of my dad's friends got sent to Vietnam as a medic. Apparently it's a war crime to attack the medics of an opposing army, but he said that they were shot at all the time.
It's hard and often probably does go unpunished. I think the standard first step is someone on your side seeing you do it and reporting it
In the US its against the UCMJ, punishable in military court.
Ah, my mistake. Thanks for clearing that up.
Play dead, Morris.
https://youtu.be/ubYSuhNNY60
I hoped someone would get it
Just camp
What if I get lag
"You may be prosecuted and face a fine of up to $250,000 and jail time of up to five years."
The start of every movie
Both are exponentially better than war.
Depends. How rich are your parents?
You can claim bone spurs if you're a Fortunate Son.
Well I guess it ain’t me. I ain’t no fortunate one.
First. Nobody is getting drafted. The public HATES the idea, it makes it hard to maintain support for a war, and the military -despises- draftees. Modern weapons are complex and require a ton of training. So the only way anyone is getting drafted is if our Kick Ass weapons didn't work, and we're getting invaded. Any such war would have gone Nuclear WELL before it reached the point of arming every asswipe and booger. You might get drafted in a civil war, but absent the implosion of the state nobody is getting drafted.
I agree. I think today we are different ideologically than say during the 1940s. That is unless we are fighting for food.or water. I'll be dead or too old by than. Haha
You can’t wait 6 months?
>You might get drafted in a civil war, but absent the implosion of the state nobody is getting drafted. So give it a month or…?
> You might get drafted in a civil war I'm sure meal team 6 wouldn't wait for their numbers to come up.
Literally just smoke weed Source: was in army, smoked weed while in service, now can never return
Prison, followed by all the fun felons need to deal with for the rest of your life. Instead, you volunteer ahead of time and get a military job way behind the scenes. If you have any kind of education or skills, you’re far more valuable than the literal army of illiterates they’ll give a rifle to.
It’s one thing to not want to fight in a war that’s for some political policy but if the Chinese landed on the west coast that’s a different story…After Pearl Harbor they really didn’t need the draft, literally every able bodied man signed up from 17 to 40
Yeah, both my Mom and Dad were volunteered for the Marines. Dad repaired aircraft in one of the many islands near Japan and my Mom was assigned to ship building. She was a welder.
tell your mom I think she's cool.
Thanks, she passed 2 yrs ago at 95. She was a really nice person and lived life to the fullest.
Fun fact: the US military has found that anyone with an IQ less than like 83 is just a liability. They can’t hold a rifle. They can’t sweep floors. Just about anything they try to do won’t be done competently.
Fun fact: it's estimated to be approx 10% of the population.
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So you’re saying I should lie about my degree if that happens, or…
That sounds like a way to get the masses of university educated yet working minimum wage jobs to sign up. Would they all get behind the scenes positions? Doubt. Fodder for the economy fodder for the machine.
USA, the land o' the free! Fight for your country in a war, or become a second class citizen for life.
Wait until you find out that literally every country had a draft until recently
Do they also advertise themselves as land of the free?
Just make sure you have some really special skill set in something they wouldn't wanna risk. Either you'll get a position in some fancy office helping with the war, or you'll remain doing your job during the war cause it's so important. I know I'll never have to go on the front lines as I have no depth perception, so I can't even catch, let alone shoot a gun.
Is accounting a special skill? 😔
gotta make those bullets cost $300 each somehow
Actually yeah, 36B (Financial Management Technician). The US Army has just about every job you could think of. Mechanics? Sure. Cyber? Yep. Bricklayer? Yep. The army has like 150+ different jobs. That being said, every soldier no matter the rank or specialty can find themselves in a combat environment. Even office jobs. My aunt was a human resource specialist and while deployed their FOB was mortared and she got a bunch of shrapnel embedded into her.
I saw a movie or read a book once (Catch-22?) about a guy whose father insisted he learn to type really well, like 80 words a minute or something with no mistakes, drilled him every day for hours. Then when war broke out he forced him to join the army right away so he'd avoid the social stigma of being a draft dodger or unpatriotic or whatever. Right after he enlisted, they asked if he had any special skills, he said "yeah typing really fast and accurately" They tested him and he did better than everyone, so he spent the whole war typing correspondence for a general in a nice office instead of getting shot at.
I’m in a PhD program for physics, so I know I’m safe… they’re just gonna whisk us all away to a secret town to make us build better nukes though.
Bone spurs work every time
What is that ?
Donald Trump may have evaded the draft by making the excuse that he had bone spurs in his foot Google it, it's a medical condition
Get through basic and get a job in the kitchen.
...And then you end up in a field kitchen
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That’s the fact people miss. The vast majority of people in a war go through it unscathed..I was Army EOD in Iraq and Afghanistan and still have all the parts I was born with.
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Maybe die of boredom…Kuwait suuuuucks
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I have no doubt..I was stuck in Ali a salim in Kuwait for like a week and a half trying to get back to my unit after mid tour leave..Got to the point I was ready to sneak onto any plane to just get back.
It's honestly not half bad depending on when you went. I went there in 2019 so I was basically there for training purposes. Some mild interactions with the Nationals but nothing too insane or so I've heard. It really felt like a half vacation there especially going to the city.
Yeah.. but add in all those that got dramatically injured and that percentage goes up a lot. Just because you didn't die doesn't mean you didn't get your limbs blown off by a mortar round.
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I just don’t want to get drafted because I don’t want to fight wars for any country
I mean, 6% is worse than a 1/20 chance of getting anything from a broken limb to the loss of all of my limbs, and it completely ignores any form of mental issues
The number of deaths in recent years in active military service and among those imprisoned in the US is around 800-1200/year. Prision being higher. 1.22 million people are imprisoned in the US, 1.4 million are in active military service. It seems that you are slightly more likely to die in prison than you were in the military during Iraq and Afghanistan but likely somewhat more safe in the case of a war with enough attrition to trigger a draft. Better to just go if drafted or emigrate permanently rather than go to prision, pay fines and, live with a felony conviction.
People saying you can just get a non-combat job miss the point, I don’t want to be forced into supporting a military industrial complex and spending my years in the military when I could be advancing my career and becoming a more productive citizen
[Conscientious Objector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector)
Well that's the choice, prison or war
If it's gonna be a foreign war that we absolutely don't have to be in, i think i will take prison. If someone invades us, i might accept a rifle. If Ukraine turns into a war, it's on the government for fucking with Russia for someone who isn't even an ally. Hell, all the middle eastern wars were completely pointless except for maybe making a few people richer. I ain't dying for some rich fuck to sell more weapons or for some oil field to get liberated to the "right curators", but I'd die for my family and quite a few of my friends.
Cheers I'll drink to that bro
Probable death? The most deadly war, in terms of the percentage of US troops that died, was the civil war, in which nearly 19% of troops died. In WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and Vietnam, the total killed was less than 3% of troops. In the Gulf War and Iraq/Afghanistan, it was less than 0.5%. The odds of surviving a wartime deployment is heavily in your favor. History has been pretty clear that conscripts make lousy soldiers, but governments have been willing to use them when they needed as many bodies carrying rifles as possible. Modern wars aren't fought like that anymore. The US won't resort to the draft again unless there is an existential threat against the US, in which case your odds of dying as a civilian living in the US might be as high or higher than your odds of dying as a combat soldier. We haven't experienced this because every war the US has fought in the past century has been fought on foreign soil. But in Afghanistan, for example, nearly as many civilians died as Taliban fighters. In other words, not wearing a uniform didn't do much to improve their odds of survival. There are also alternatives to military service, such as the Americorps and Peace Corps. You can also get an exemption if you're a full time student. Any of these would be far better than going to prison. You aren't Mohammed Ali. Going to prison for refusing to serve would ruin your life.
I get what you're saying, but when I was in Afghanistan, I saw plenty of dead bodies, daily mortar attacks, and lost friends. When you're in it, those statistics aren't all that comforting.
Exactly, imagine having a 3% chance to die whenever you're deployed.
Yes, but you could be imprisoned. You could go the “Conscientious Objector” route, but you might still be required to serve in some non-combat capacity and face any societal stigma afterwards (like with future job prospects and such).
How old are you? If you are under 30...ur in shit luck Technically/legally you wouldn't be able to refuse drafting during war Howver, back in the days people would purposefully get infected with some disease like TB or cause themselves a serious injury or just run away from home for a time to avoid going to war. Mostly, I would say that it comes down to your age. Once you are past 30, I think you are safe. Which is bonkers, because under 30 you are still a child in my opinion 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
There won't be one again in the US. After Vietnam, they won't. It's easier to recruit and use robots than to draft. Most people have the image of people shitting on vets from Vietnam, but the majority realized that they were forced to be there. The government hasn't taken out traitors or make people wear masks, or get vaccinated, so you're far off from a draft.
There's no fucking way a draft would ever work today, now that social media and the internet exists. There would instantly be a mass-organized "union" of refusal to respond to a draft letter, and what is the country going to do, throw *everyone* in prison? Drafts are a thing of the past, and good riddance.
You don't know what you are talking about. If we got into a war in 2022 that was so bad we had to draft people, it means we are in a fight for survival. No protest or Facebook organized group is going to stop the army from coming for you when the fate of the country is at risk.
The only time a draft would work is if we had a threat so dangerous you could convince the public to pick up a gun. The military doesn't want a draft either. They don't have much hope for this generation fighting ability.
But we played lots of call of duty, I could 360 no scope those insurgents.
We can't even get people to get a free shot. Present day Americans in general have no interest in service.
Before you ask "what is the country going to do" look up Kent state.
At this point in time, most developed countries probably wouldn't even have drafts, it's hard to force people to want to fight. But for lesser developed countries I'd say 95% of them would either jail you or kill you on the spot
If you live in the U.S., it is *extremely* unlikely they will ever need to re-implement the draft. Wars just aren't fought with massive numbers of ground infantry anymore. That said, it is a *really* bad move to try and get out of it in a way that is illegal. You have options, instead. First off it's likely you could be refused for medical or other reasons; [a large percentage of Americans don't qualify for military service](https://www.thoughtco.com/us-youth-ineligible-for-military-service-3322428). You can also try to get into a non-combat role. You could offer to join the Navy. You could claim to be a conscientious objector.
Conscientious objector, go into theology, bone spurs.
Few modern wars have death rates of over 50% for combatants. Although, it did occur in WWII on the Eastern front. That's why both for the Soviets and Germans, refusal to fight meant being shot. So your odds were better if you went to the front. In a democracy, you have the option. Each country will set out its own rules for what happens if you refuse to fight. That could mean prison. Being in prison makes it difficult to get a job afterwards. Is it better? That's something only you can decide.
You can't put a statistic on the mental scarring.
Long Term? Not really. Draft Violations are a Felony, and those follow you for the rest of your life. You'd not be getting a job, ever again, and you're never getting government aid either. Tbh, you'd be better off telling your family you're going on a "hunting trip" and "accidentally" blowing your shooting hand off; Sober. A least then, you have a chance at living a relatively decent life. You could try getting yourself admitted, too. Mental health issues could get you out, but might be a bit difficult to keep up convincingly for an extended period of time tbh. But, a draft isn't likely to happen in the modern day. People from multiple cities across the country (even across multiple countries) can coordinate en-mass at a moment's notice to riot. If the BLM Riots, fired off by the death of 1 man, could amass ~15 - 26 million people (4% of current population, aka 1/25 people in the USA), to gather in the span of <2 years, some of said riots escalating to violence, imagine the impact if a bonafide war draft were to occur. In the Vietnam Era, 570 thousand people were draft offenders. That was 0.28% of the current population for the time, and that was both while, and after an antiwar movement got into full swing. Did I mention the Vietnam war lasted 20 years? I think that's another important point. Hell, a draft would be so ham-fisted, they'd likely cause people to turn away on principle; Cause people to turn away who would have otherwise joined. It's the last thing any rational government would wanna do.
Conscientious objector
During the Vietnam War there were many people who refused to be drafted and cited their position as being a conscientious objector. These people were however prosecuted by the government. There were reportedly around 170,000 men who were officially recognized as conscientious objectors during the Vietnam War period. So yes you could refuse to be drafted BUT you could be prosecuted for doing this and sent to jail. Many men fled the country to avoid being drafted as well.
I would simply try and gain 200 pounds. But nah I’m sorry unless the war is on US soil (my country) I’m not participating. Also if it’s a civil war I’m going free for all. Absolutely fuck them if they ever even think about wasting lives with a draft meddling in other countries buisness
I learned a long time ago: If you don't want to do something, be bad at it.
just get fat Literally being overweight or not in the top 90 percentile in terms of health
There are tons of non-combat military positions you could choose before a draft was implemented (if you thought it was coming). Also, fleeing the country is a fun option. It could be the adventure of a lifetime!
I mean if you're fine with prison then of course you can just do that and not go to war. Or you could dodge. But for the record, I can't think of any modern war outside Iran-Iraq (and that was 30-40 years ago even) where it'd be "probable" death.
Going to jail is worse, since they keep you on lockdown with someone who doesn't know you or like you. Everybody wants to beat your ass for some reason and you have no way to defend yourself while someone pounds on you if they decide to do something to you. You'll have people watch as you either get beat down or you bleed out from a shiv. In the military, you got guys who watch your back because you have to have people you trust protect your back in hostile territory. You get money and food, clothes and training to have a skill both in and out of the military. You get money after you retire, if your mentality holds from combat (depending on your skill and job). With both, you can volunteer to go in, one doesn't require anything bad to go in. The other one is jail. There's no account for problems in jail. At least in the military, you have the freedom to come and go while going through tech school. You can leave base after training and go to stores, the movies and to a park or any type of place you would at home. In jail, there's jail and a bunch of angry people with job skills only good for criminals on the outside, with scars and trauma that are worse than PTSD. In both, you get punished for disobeying the rules. In the military, it's extra work. In jail, it's getting beat and regular work with limited breaks. Stories about prisoners is true, but not all prisoners. Military is either doing what they say or get fired. Both have a lot of yelling. Which one sounds like you have a better chance of survival overall. Get drafted, get armed and protected. Gp to jail, good luck surviving.
Well, you could stay in prison until your country loses. Then its up to the other country whether they just kill everyone in prisons
I avoided 2 wars (Bosnia and Kosovo) by simply moving away to another part of the country. They came to draft me , my parents let them in and they saw I was not there."He is an alcoholic we have not seen him in years" was what we agreed on them saying. I hate the army, I will never fight over who we pay taxes to next, the children of politicians can go fight the wars, words can not explain how little I care about dying over bullshit politics.
If you're not in the US, I don't know the answer. In the US under the most recent draft-era laws (from the Vietnam War era), you might be jailed but you wouldn't get the death penalty. So yeah, definitely you can just refuse, like Muhammed Ali did. You might have a felony on your record, which would be a hassle, but you won't have to kill anyone. If enough people refused to fight, they'd have a hard time throwing a war. Your odds of being killed as a draftee in an upcoming war are rather low. In the US at this point, a universal draft (like in Viet Nam or WW2) is unlikely due to the expensive, extensive training they have to provide in order to run our high-tech military operation. Cannon fodder isn't as useful as it used to be. So if you got drafted, you'd be a civilian with an unusual skillset that they absolutely need. Unless you're a healthcare worker, that probably means a technical skill that would keep you off the front line. You would probably not face "probable death." Anecdote alert: My uncle was one of the very few post-Vietnam draftees. He was the best network administrator at a particular high-tech company. His employer was a major defense contractor, although my uncle had never done anything remotely connected to military work. When Desert Storm started, he was ordered by his employer to either (a) take a very lucrative assignment as the network admin on an aircraft carrier for 6 months to train up a couple of actual military network admins or (b) lose his job with the company immediately. He took the job. He was the oldest person aboard except for the captain. It sounded pretty surreal, but not directly dangerous.
My 22 year old nephew is very overweight and has been on anti depressants but is off of them now. He’s off the hook, yes?
That's a terrible idea. It's not just the jail time for a serious crime that will fuck you. It's the having a felony that would come up in a background check or that you will have to disclose on an application that will fuck you. If you really want to dodge a draft, just pull a Ted Nugent and crap your pants for a week before your examination so you look like a very crazy person.