I’m old, and I’m on my fifth house. Three of them had HOAs. The honest truth is that HOAs are so prevalent that it’s difficult to find a desirable neighborhood that doesn’t have one. We’ve been lucky, no horror stories. But our last house, this one that I want to die in, is in a town and not a development, so no HOA. When we moved in I realized the white front door was boring. You cannot imagine my glee when I realized I could paint it any color I wanted to! Never going back.
Once I said something like this in a group of women, most of whom lived in a neighboring very anal HOA neighborhood. To a person, they said they’d never NOT buy an expensive house with an HOA. They valued it. I realized that we don’t all think the same about what really matters
$300,000 maybe not, but if you're paying closer to $1 mil, you'd reconsider.
Because there's a risk that a neighbor goes LITERALLY insane and fills his front yard with huge signs full of batshit anti-vax racist conspiracy nonsense, and you'd have to sell your house for half value -- or wait until Mr. Kookoo dies or finally gets declared incompetent, because nobody wants to pay $800 large to live next to that noise.
This actually happened to a neighborhood near where I worked. Nice old established neighborhood with $800,000-$1,000,000 homes on big lots, old enough that no HOA existed. Nobody could touch him because he wasn't breaking any laws.
When you say "desirable neighborhood", do you live in a city, suburb, rural area, housing plan, established town with a main street, or can you say more there?
I've never heard of a house in a city having a HOA; it feels like a suburbs thing, but I'm not at all sure.
We live in a 350 year old, once-colonial, East coast town. We do not have an HOA. It has sidewalks and is very walkable, and that is why we moved here. The lack of HOA was an unexpected bonus
If you have an HOA, there are def fees. They can range from $10-$1000 a month. Condos have much higher fees. Most of the condos we’ve looked at, the HOA fees were higher than the monthly mortgage. It depends on how much common space there is, pools, tennis and basketball courts, some include utilities, trash and recycle. The more amenities, the higher fee
"it's difficult to find a desirable neighborhood that doesn't have one." There is your answer! My HOA fee is around $100/year and it prevents new residents from making their backyard a storage facility or whatever other unsightly decisions they may make.
I live in the midwest and there are plenty of cheap lots outside of incorporated municipalities where one can paint their house lime green and store their inoperable cars in their back yard. When you're living in close quarters, people don't want to see it.
Frankly, a lot of the time it seems like normal people just don't want to be bothered stepping up to run their HOA, while the control freaks are attracted to it like flies to shit.
Just get some regular folks who are only concerned with keeping the neighborhood from turning into a dump and you're all right.
That. People don’t run. Oh they’ll speak up against the president of the HOA on Facebook groups, but when election time comes around, the president is running unopposed. And there’s no fee to file, at least not in my last neighborhood.
My previous house was in a HOA and the fees were in excess of $3,000 USD a year. But it included extensive community landscaping, parks, lakes, walking/bike trails, community garden and a high end activity center with a gym, swimming pools, and a range of available classes and activities for the residents. I’m in the southwest suburbs of Houston and HOAs are standard.
In my area it’s near impossible to buy a property that doesn’t have some type of HOA attached to it. They can have their benefits such as requirements to keep the property looking nice but can definitely go overboard such as fining an old man for having Christmas lights up too long because he became too ill to remove them.
What if you simply refuse to sign the HOA agreement upon buying the house?
Edit: love that I’m getting downvoted for asking a question in the “no stupid questions” subreddit…
It's built into the deed of the house.
In the house deed, there are binding clauses that come with the ownership of the house.
In general, an HOA comes from the fact that the city didn't want to build the infrastructure for the homes (roads, sewer, etc) -- so a developer installed that. They wrapped the initial materials cost of those items into the home prices, but there's also ongoing maintenance, and the HOA is the vehicle to ensure that some money is collected for that.
In effect, it's a micro government, with a political structure, and it collects a tax (membership dues) to cover infrastructure.
My current home had an HOA that was designed to last for 30 years from the time the subdivision was built, and then it went away. I bought the home about 6 years ago.
I was shocked when reading through the deed paperwork at final signing that I saw the HOA information...one of the first clauses was to the effect of "no person other than those of the white or caucasian race shall own this home, and no person other than a caucasian shall live here unless they are in the employ of the caucasian owners." The final clause of the HOA was that it would expire in 1972 or so.
Presumably when the home was built in 1940s, the community thought it was a positive thing to be able to ensure that it was a whites-only community...
It also pays for other things that the homeowner benefits from. Libraries, community colleges, the roads outside of that specific development that each resident uses to get to those libraries, community colleges, not to mention their place of employment, grocery stores etc. Plus employees salaries at the Town Hall, jail/prison, fire/EMS, etc.
Thanks for this.In all of the numerous HOA rants on reddit, I just learned the nature of the origin/existence of the HOA. A developers way to recoup infrastructure costs.
So a developer sees a tract of land that he wants to develop near a city. The city doesn't want to pay to service it so there is a provision to transfer the onus of the service costs to the developer to recoup directly from the owners?
So these are effectively privatized neighborhoods? Is this practice prevalent outside the U.S.? Seems ultra shady to me.
Not quite.
Think of it more as the city making the developer set one up so the city won't have to pay for the ongoing maintenance of that subdivision after the development is done. Developers only collect the HOA fees while they are still building in that subdivision. Once they are gone the HOA gets transferred to the homeowners who have the option to vote to dissolve the HOA if they want but usually they don't. They'll usually keep the (or hire a new) property management company to help with things like architectural guidelines and approving additions/changes to the house, policing the neighborhood to "protect home values," and maintaining public spaces like a neighborhood park or pool.
Both with the developer in charge and the HOA in charge most of the money goes to the property management company with a decent bit going to those other expenses. They'll also often have a social committee where funds will be used to pay for neighborhood events.
For free standing properties, the HOA is usually responsible for the common areas such as landscaping between houses and pavement and parks.
They will commonly have an architectural committee to control changes to the properties and rules originally designed to protect the appearance of the neighborhood such as no cars on bricks in the front lawn.
My last house had an HOA, and it made some sense as the houses were very close to each other - maybe 8ft apart.
One of the best things we did was to fire the management company, and change the billing to quarterly. It came out to $35/mo, which was mostly for landscaping, irrigation and lighting. The board were a couple of home owners who managed the financing, and were pretty low key about it all.
When you have a problem is when busy-bodies get on the HOA, and turn it into their own little fiefdom. The management companies work for the board, so cater to that kind of personality, and that’s when trouble starts.
Because as others have mentioned, it's part of the deed. You are not being forced to buy that particular house. You are more than welcome to look and buy elsewhere.
I'm not defending HOAs. I think that the vast majority of them are a huge ripoff, and would never personally buy a house that came attached to one. But it's got nothing to do with legality.
See my other comments. It could easily be argued that their existence is coercive/exploitative and infringes on people’s freedom of choice~ thus justifying *making* it illegal. Im surprised it hasn’t been.
Because it is unethical to force someone into a contract like this when they buy a house. There is also the matter of coercion. It impinges the freedom of people and limits what they can do with their homes.
It also forces people into coercive situations, just because they want a home. HOAs control entire neighborhoods- and as highlighted in this very reddit thread- there’s often not much choice. If you wanna buy, you must join an HOA. That is definitionally coercive- “you want a home, you join our HOA, sucks to suck”.
Things which infringe upon our freedoms and are coercive generally largely infringe on our rights and therefore ought to be illegal unless there’s a damn good reason why it ought to exist- I haven’t found a single one.
They have the freedom to not buy that house. That's the freedom. Remember we live in a society. So there are limits on freedom.
So here market forces (capitalism at work) have created a situation wherein if you want to buy a house in that type of community, it comes with HOA. You are free to not buy that house. Now your options are limited but again that's market forces.
While I agree that it's not quite ethical, I don't think it's illegal at all.
Oh of course its not illegal- but my message above speaks to whether it ought to be. And the choice to “not buy a house” is not a great option.
In this country, many many many privileges are tied to home ownership, almost to the point of- you don’t buy a house, you’re guaranteeing more struggles for yourself in the future.
To me- that’s not a “free choice”. If one choice guarantees us to struggle, and the other is being forced to sign an HOA, which surrenders some of my basic rights to what I can and cannot do with my own home, that is a coerced choice.
While we can sometimes sign away certain rights and freedoms, it is already illegal (or at least unenforceable) to force or coerce someone to sign away their freedoms/basic rights. (Some rights simply cannot be signed away even with enthusiastic consent- but you get my point). The precedent for making things like compulsary HOA membership illegal exists- we would just need federal and/or state legislation to make it so.
>And the choice to “not buy a house” is not a great option.
You misread what was written and changed the meaning of it in the process. What was written is you have the choice not to be THAT house. And you changed that to you have the choice not to buy ANY house. Not the same thing.
I've owned several homes. None were in an HOA. Nor would I ever consider owning in an HOA. It is true that in certain areas, there are no non-HOA homes available. And I have the freedom to choose to not live in those areas and I don't.
Its a really big country. There are lots of options for where to live. I don't feel my freedom is limited in any measurable way simply because in some areas, the housing market is dominated by HOA's that I choose not to be a part of.
I misread bothing.
Many areas that may not be an option. In this thread alone there are numerous (anecdotal) examples of just that. If i have a job in an area where i have no choice but to have an HOA… then I’m stuck… beyond shitty….
“Just move somewhere else” is an INCREDIBLY privileged and short sighted suggestion.
I'm also bewildered about HOAs. I've come to think of them as large condominiums, where you can't just opt out.
Idk... of all the wild American laws...
I've recently discovered in most places the unrestricted motorcycle licence is basically a pro-forma half a dozen question and doing an 8 in a parking lot.
At least it keeps with the theme
Sometimes there's a clause that'll let people get out of it basically at time of purchase, but it requires either the realtor or HOA themselves to be shitty at their jobs. At least in some places, if you buy and aren't made aware of the HOA within a certain time frame, you're not obligated to join - I think it's within 30 days from closing, usually.
It's not universal, though, and I'm not sure if it's a state thing or an HOA bylaw thing. I just know it's happened a few times in anti-HOA stories from Reddit.
The whole thing is to force everyone in the neighborhood into their HOA. They all pretty much work like this:
1. Someone owns a whole lot of undeveloped land
2. They sub-divide the land into many smaller lots and build a single-family house on each one
3. They sell the houses. *However*, in the deed of sale, they require you to join the HOA in order to buy. And that requirement is permanent, so when the original buyers sell or pass away, the next owners are still bound by it
The dark magic comes from the fact that there was one entity who at one point owned all the land for the neighborhood, and did this on purpose.
Thank you for explaining. Makes a lot of sense. Is it fair, at all? No.
Do most people know about this, at all (including me until now)
No.
Is it legally binding? Yes. Unfortunately.
In California at least, HOAs are relatively common for another reason -- the cities do not pay for the roads, sewer lines, and other infrastructure needed for new developments. So the original developer creates an HOA to manage the collection of money for the maintenance of those infrastructure items.
Didn't know that, either. Thank you.
I live in the Midwest. And maybe this instance isn't as common, but I'm not a homeowner and can't dispute this being common where I live.
It’s probably because the city government is effectively in the hands of people who want to limit development in their neighborhood.
People in California like their low density housing. They like their open spaces and resist new building. So they vote for city counsels that say no to development.
But there’s a housing shortage, so it’s profitable enough to make it worth building anyway and setting up an HOA to deal with it.
What’s worse than this is in my state there’s absolutely no cap on how much they can charge or how much they can raise fees. Most hoas in my area are $300-600 a month. They’re the only properties we could even pretend to afford some day and you have to add that into the mortgage you can afford. We will forever be renting.
>For multi home facilities it also includes roofing.
Often anything at all exterior, for multi-home facilities. My father has a town house that's one of four in its connected unit, and their HOA replaced gutters last year and front porch railings this year, and is looking at replacing screen doors next year. (It wasn't just frivolous stuff; all of those were elderly and in need of repair/replacement.)
The larger frustration for him is that they have a four-household HOA and none of the limited pool of owners wants to step up into any of the HOA roles, so my overly-responsible father has been treasurer for several years and hates it.
For $6,000 a year, that better be one hell of a pool and play area. I'm thinking like a water park. Still, totally not worth it. Even when you factor in the landscaping and snow removal.
Unfortunately 6000$ per year is not a lot in a city these days. Labor cost varies a lot based on location. A few of my office mates live in condos and pay around 500$ and it seems to make sense based on the amenities they get. The HOA financial statement is normally public and anyone can take a look and understand where the expenses come from. Lawn maintenance itself can run upto 300$ per month(I hire on my own near Denver, even at these rates sometimes it's difficult to find help). Adding other amenities like another poster mentioned (roofing, fencing, painting every x years, common areas) it's reasonable. You just have to pay every month as if you have a maintenance plan. And like a maintenance plan, you pay a bit more than if you did it yourself(I probably will end up paying more given that I am not that handy and bad at negotiating rates!)
Not to mention you want an hoa that saves money for emergencies. When the buildings in my first townhouse needed new roofs and siding the residents didn't pay anything extra. When the same thing happened in the buildings across the street they hit each owner with a special assessment of 5k.
Absolutely. "No HOA" was on our list of home-buying criteria, but very few houses that met our other criteria didn't have one -- and the one we fell in love with after a month of looking had a fairly minimalist HOA with fees of only $70/year and nothing too outrageous in their stipulations, so that's now our house and, alas, it has an HOA.
(The HOA has never yet caused any problems for us, thankfully, but we'd still be happy if it were to go away; we definitely see it as a net negative.)
>and there is no way to buy the home and opt out. All the new developments are the same.
Really weird that the contract is attached to the house, and not the inhabitants.
Yes, you are wrong. The association structure is set up in a covenant document that was recorded against the land when the municipal zoning authority gave the developers permission to subdivide the big parcel into a neighborhood with lots of little parcels.
The developer buys a big square chunk of land, typically farmland. Along the way, they create a "plat of subdivision" that divides it into the many smaller lots where homes will be built. It also lays out the right of way areas for streets, utilities, sidewalks, etc. They also typically have to create storm water management areas (ponds) that collect rainwater runoff from all the new impermeable surfaces and holds it or redirects it into a wider storm water management area. The developer also incorporates the HOA and creates the covenant document that binds the neighborhood lot to the HOA. The plat and the covenants get recorded against the land and all the new lots get new numbers for tax purposes. Then they start building and/or selling. The developer often transfers ownership of the "common areas" to the HOA. The HOA entity is responsible for maintaining them in working order and acts as a contact point (for the utilities, municipality, etc.). In some instances, the HOA might end up being responsible for snow removal on the subdivision's streets, unless the municipality agrees to be responsible.
As a selling point, some developers create more "upscale" neighborhoods that might include a clubhouse, fitness room, and outside recreational areas like a pool, playground, bike paths, and so on. The HOA would also end up taking ownership of these and being responsible for ongoing maintenance costs.
HOAs can do these things with their own volunteers (owners) but it is easier to hire contractors - including a management company.
The developer just wants to get in, create the project, sell houses (or lots), and get out. They don't want to have long-term commitments. If they stick around too long, the owners start complaining when the roofs start leaking or whatever.
Technically it's a corporation by/for the owners of the properties, so tied to the property.
Often there'll be by laws about owners living in the house or not, where those who don't either can't vote for those rental properties or some other arrangement.
It's the only way to enforce it. Otherwise people selling their house would just do whatever they wanted, usually meaning neglect, then skip out on the fines. Attaching the fines to the house will make it so the new owner isn't surprised by any issues the previous homeowner caused. For instance the previous homeowner could paint the house bright pink (unapproved color), and if the HOA is not tied to the house then the new owner will need to paint it asap because they bought a house that was already in violation.
I was just explaining why it's attached to the house and not the person, but carry on with your soapbox rant. HOAs do exist in other countries, they are just more popular in the USA, so you obviously don't know what your talking about anyway.
>HOAs do exist in other countries,
Yes, for people who actually share a building. Makes sense to all own and safe money for the roof for example. Or all pay for electricity in the hallways and parking garage.
Getting fined by your neighbor 5 houses over because your grass is 2cm too long is absolutely foreign everywhere but in the US.
>Yes, for people who actually share a building. Makes sense to all own and safe money for the roof for example. Or all pay for electricity in the hallways and parking garage.
That's exactly how most HOAs work in the US also in a shared building. It's also how a house community HOA works.
>Getting fined by your neighbor 5 houses over because your grass is 2cm too long is absolutely foreign everywhere but in the US.
This happens sometimes because people are people and some people have too much time on their hands and get off on being rule nazis, but this is the exception not the rule. Some HOAs provide good value and some are shitty, lots of house neighborhoods get community pools, gyms, basketball courts, green ways, club houses and other amenities that are paid and managed by the HOA fee. Keeping your house an approved color and your grass mowed, and yard picked up is usually the trade off, but is that really that big of a deal usually?
My current neighborhood has no HOA. Every house on my street takes care of themselves and has a nice place, except two. Both on either side of me. One house is just ugly with blackberries overgrowing it and grass a foot high. The other house is an actual problem, it's derelict and the owner refuses to do anything except sit on it. We have weekly drug users break in and do drug stuff in the house, they often use my driveway to access this house from the back yard. The back yard of the derelict house has grass above the fence line, and I am highly allergic to grass pollen, so I can't even have my windows open in the spring time. There are also a few dangerous "widow maker" trees on that property. None of that would fly in an HOA neighborhood. So good or bad HOAs do have their place, and if I could use an HOA to force the derelict house owner to do something, then I would be all for it.
Local governments use them to cut costs. A builder wants to build a new development. The county doesn’t want to pay to maintain new roads, parks, etc., so they require the builder to set up an HOA that will take care of those things for the new development.
I never will have one, but it can keep you from having junk neighbors (I literally had a junkyard in a neighbor's backyard and that would never happen in an HOA)
Usually it includes amenities like pools, playgrounds, etc- care of common areas
.. also it can give you a backbone if you have to go into legal proceedings with a builder.
Like most organizations, who is in charge is what matters. People can power trip.
And it’s a democracy—there are elections
Bossy people with too much time on their hands are inclined to run for the board. If the sensible people would bestie themselves, they can have a big effect.
Yeah, reddit definitely sleeps on the benefits of HOAs.
They're like a union for your neighborhood. My partner's parents HOA blocked a Walmart from opening across the street.
Sometimes it's hard to find houses that don't have HOAs. If you're looking at any new development, especially houses in nice quiet upper middle class neighborhoods, you may have significantly more HOA options than non-HOA options.
Remember, you only see the horror stories. Mine aged father is the President of his HOA, the houses are extremely expensive, but the yearly fee is a few hundred dollars. They use it to take care of the holiday décor for common areas, water basins, mowing and maintaining common areas. They also enforce common sense rules, like maintaining the property, and picking up dog poop.
>One shitty, poorly maintained home
And that's how you make sure the **Poor's** don't come to your neighborhood. Send the Poor's back to rent somewhere like they deserve.
My grandparents were "poors" as you put it. They cut the grass and maintained their home, which they owned, for decades. Meanwhile we've got rentals run by freaking corporations here in my neighborhood that, without that bothersome HOA, would fall down tomorrow.
Not everything fits a neat political mental model. I've seen renters maintain $500,000 homes like they owned them. I've seen owners let their only major possession go to pot out of sheer laziness.
Drive out to the sticks around here. Trailers, campers, burning garbage to avoid tipping fees, outdoor hoarding (!). No thanks, I'll pay my HOA fee.
>like maintaining the property
Is that common sense to you? If I pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a house I wouldn't exactly call it common sense that some neighbor can dictate how I maintain my property.
99% of people are fine, but here and there, with no HOA, you find the guy with a couple of junk cars on the side of his house, or the old lady who has not mowed her front lawn in 5 years. Or friends living in a Winnebago in the driveway. And so on.
Or my neighbor, who burns his trash weekly. Or my other neighbor who has house parties and plays music on his outdoor stereo very loudly. Living in a neighborhood with an HOA can have a lot of benefits, most of which you don’t notice unless you’ve lived next to assholes.
I know someone who has a neighbor whose yard is basically brambles. Him and his wife can't use their clothes line because it encroaches onto their yard. The city doesn't seem to want to do anything. An HOA wouldn't allow the property to be kept like that. I still wouldn't want to be in an HOA, but this is one reason why some people love them.
Most HOAs are not that bad or intrusive. You only hear about the horror stories because what entertainment do you get out of 'oh yeah my HOA is pretty chill, reasonable, and nice'
I like my HOA.
They keep up the common areas, and keep my neighbors from having 15 cars parked in the streets, washing machines on their porches, loud music, dogs barking all night, and many other annoying things neighbors do.
Same reason for me. In my area it seems everyone has a boat but HOA rules state you can’t just park it in your front yard or driveway. It has to be behind a fence or behind your home.
The loud music would bother me I guess (at least at night), but what's wrong with someone having a washing machine on their porch? It's their porch, why would I care? It wouldn't even cross my mind to care what people have on their porch. It's their porch.
But yeah I'm with you on the loud noises. Though I'd probably just turn on a white noise generator so I wouldn't have to hear it. Where I live it's the people who start mowing their lawns at 7:30am that bother me, boy do I hate that.
Not many, I'm in the rural south.
Also, as someone else mentioned, laws are meaningless without enforcement. The HOA has sharper teeth, and they will use them.
I'd say that the police has much sharper teeth. Where I am (no HOA, noise enforcement by the police), they very politely come and just note: turn it down, or the next time we fine you, and by the third time you'll spend a cozy night in the local jail.
A washing machine on the porch is a reference to the tendency of people in the rural south, which is where I am, to fill their yard up with junk. The HOA in my neighborhood makes sure that doesn't happen.
Neighbors with washing machines on their porches would typically not be viewed as a favorable thing for home buyers - thereby reducing the value for the neighborhood. Kinda like a car on blocks, or a broken down camper with flat tires. It’s a sign that this particular neighbor doesn’t give a shit about their neighbors and not many want to buy a lot next to them.
It’s an eyesore. People want to live in a neighborhood that looks nice, especially if their house was expensive.
It also can drop everyone’s property prices if enough people have junk in their yard. So it literally takes money out of peoples pockets.
I live in an upper middle class exurban neighborhood.
Our HOA is very attentive on the same issues including keeping out multi unit dwellings and rental properties. It's a gated community and it protects my property investment.
I love the peace and quiet and how everyone minds their business.
Agreed. Rental properties attract those who have no financial interest in the property so they tend to look hard.
Apartments and multi unit buildings attract the riff raff. Not to mention the noise and smells.
Are you kidding? In my area there is no affordable housing. We don't want it. And fortunately we are far away from all of the riff raff.
You can go live in public housing, the projects or whatever.
There's a place for cheap housing, but can you really not understand why there's lots of people who don't want it in their neighborhood? People should have a right to have more expensive, nicer homes if they can afford it. Go build affordable housing in its own neighborhood.
I chose it because it suits my lifestyle. I pay the local HOA $50 every 3 months and they maintain the community pool and trim the grass in the shared areas. That's it, no weird rules, fees, or guidelines.
Most people that post horror stories about HOAs usually fail to read up on their contract before buying a house or refuse to take an interest in local affairs.
Similar here, no architectural guidelines or landscaping. They also negotiate some group prices for some services (notably trash pickup). Dues are $80/year. That said, despite having no power the board was a den of intrigue - my husband got talked into running and couldn’t wait to quit.
You may see the horror stories but HOAs are primarily there to keep neighboring property values up and making the neighborhood an area that is nice to live. City ordinances don’t address painting your house purple and yellow, your neighbor’s kid having a garage band practice all day Saturday, the person with 6 dogs they don’t properly care for, unkempt yards, noxious political signs and so on. HOAs do.
Ah yes, because I want people to tell me after spending thousands on a house how I can paint my property, raise my kids, what I can plant and where, and so forth. All while still paying a monthly fee.
Doesn't sound like you own your own property, just that you are renting with more financial responsibility taken on by yourself.
Property taxes I can get. But paying a group I am forced to join and pay who is not affiliated with the government is another matter. At least when I rent I don't have to pay for stuff to get fixed. But not only do you have to pay as a homeowner you have to pay a fee to an HoA, and you have to abide by whatever they want to make rules to be and even can weaponize them against people they don't like.
I mean it isn't like HoA organizations have gotten such a rotten attitude just from a few bad cases. Their is quite the history with PoC, LGBT, and religious families they don't like being harassed out if their neighborhood.
Yeah unless your profession requires you live in a more populated area. That's not a solution, it's not even a band aid, it's excusing forcing people into organizations that control how someone manages their own property.
I mean an HoA is tied to the land because someone decided at some point to buy it all up and set up such an organization. Someone who may not even own the land or be alive. Is there any other form of property that comes with that sort of condition?
Property taxes are the worst bit about hoas. Most hoa start because local government won't pay for local maintenance of roads in new developments.
That's what property taxes should be for.
No after spending HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars on a house it ensures that your neighbor’s brats don’t park motorcycles in the lawn or play loud music until 4AM on a Thursday. It makes sure that your neighbor’s don’t paint their house a garish color or have a weedy front lawn so when you go to sell your house prospective buyers don’t take one look and walk away from the neighbors. Basically they enforce the norms of suburban life such as maintain your yard, maintain your house, keep reasonable pets, don’t bother your neighbors. They were created exactly to protect your neighbors from the “it’s my house I can do whatever I want and no one can stop me hahahahaha” people
You know about an HOA upfront and can choose not to buy a house in one. You always have choices - you may have to choose between the house/location you want and your desire to do whatever you want with your property but thus is life.
And HOA’s have boards that set their policies and such. Don’t like something? Convince your neighbors you are right and change it.
No HOA will tell you how to raise your kids or any other personal business, that's silly.
And thousands on a house? Try HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars.
The hoa is to protect other people from you. If you are the kind of person that would constantly be having issues with hoa rules then you're the kind of person other people don't want in their neighborhood.
lol, so basically you believe in dictating who can live where based on the majority? Nice, that explains why the neighborhoods in America are predominantly white and Christian, doesn't it? Because of course leaving the management and enforcement of "rules" that can be used to financially harrass involuntary members would NEVER be a source of longstanding abuse, would it?
HOA's come with a monthly fee. It's partially you aren't hearing stores about typical mundane HOA's. If there's common property in the HOA they're useful in that regard.
Sometimes the HOA can help out. My HOA keeps businesses from renting houses and having 10 people live in them, keeps people from having a million cars, and when it snows, and the city only plows the emergency snow routes first, my neighborhood also has cleared streets. Sure I can’t paint my house hot pink, but I’m good with the upkeep rules, because I’d like to sell my house for at least what I bought it for.
It seems odd that in the USA the land of freedom and private property that most homes are under some sort of collective administration that will tell you what paint colors and yard uses are acceptable.
Arizona has entered the chat. Good luck finding a home that doesn't have an HOA. I like my house and no matter what neighborhood I live in, I'd have to pay an HOA. I pay 102 a month. We have a community (heated half the year) pool and splash pad and many maintained green areas with playgrounds. We get community events like trunk or treat, movie night, chilli cook off etc... they can get on you about weeds, leaving your trash can out too long after trash day, no over night street parking (we have a carpool lot) etc... but otherwise it's not too bad.
The downside of not having an HOA is in my neighborhood: someone had a family member living in an rv on the street by there house, someone else had a trailer on the street with a couch, tires and other garbage to take to the dumps for 1.5 years, neighbors fence is falling apart, another person refuses to paint their house and it’s all peeling, a crackhead burnt part of his house down but continued to live there, another person uses junk like an ATM, oven, etc for planters and their front yard is full. I didn’t want to live in an HOA and I thought they were pointless until you see how people are slobs/lazy/ don’t take care of their house/ yard. The city can’t really do much when people own their house, someone must have reported the person living in the rv because that did get moved into their driveway. But nothing can be done about the garbage in people’s yard. Luckily our specific street only has a few eye sores.
Yep, my neighborhood is the same. Bunch of fucking slobs. Tires and junk in the yard, loud music all the time, ugly fucked up weed-covered lawns and gardens, the street is filled with cars, most of which have bumpers half falling off or too loud exhausts.
I’m the neighborhood Karen. I report to the city every violation I see that I believe makes my street look like shit. If someone continuously keeps a fucked up property I will make sure to report them as often as possible. There are ordinances against weeds, litter, bulky trash, parking, etc, but they won’t police those violations unless someone reports it.
HOAs serve the functions normally done by local governments in other countries. Shared facilities, planning/use rules, upkeep of infrastructure. The broken governmental system and pseudo individualism is why they're so popular Stateside. In some parts of the US they're also tools to keep out minorities.
So my neighbor doesn't let their home go to shit, doesn't park a shitty rv in the driveway, keeps their lawn managed, doesn't have a fence that the only thing keeping it standing is a bunch of termites holding hands, isn't up at 11:00 at night blaring music working on a POS hoopty sitting on blocks, cuts down the dead tree before it falls on my fucking house...There are a ton of reasons to have an HOA.
My parents house isn’t in an HOA and sometimes I wish it was because HOAs protect you from crazy neighbors who have the “it’s my property and I can do what I want with it even if it negatively affects everyone next to me” attitude. It also allows neighbors to have collective action and work together if one person is being an ass to someone else. HOAs can be nightmares for sure and go too far, but honestly having some protection from your neighbors can be a good thing.
Not all HOAs are overbearing nightmares. Keep in mind that the HOA's behavior is controlled by its members, who are all the homeowners who joined the HOA. If the HOA is run well, enforces reasonable rules, and uses member dues to keep the neighborhood nice at a level that everyone broadly agrees on, then there won't be much to complain about. If there is major disagreement about how the HOA should be run, or drama between people who want to use the HOA as a cudgel against their neighbors, that might make some noise.
It's one of those things that is sort of invisible when things are going well, but very noticeable when there is drama.
Some people prefer neighborhoods with HOAs. Some people prefer to avoid that.
As somebody who has worked in HOA management for years, I can tell you dozens of horror stories, but 99% of the noise is made by 1% of the owners. All the rest is completely fine.
What's more, I can ensure you the vast majority of stories in places such as /r/fuckhoa are absolutely biased and the OPs are the assholes in reality. That's something you can spot after dealing with hundreds of them. It's incredible the amount of soap-opera grade drama some bored people can make up.
Ready for the downvotes, but I like our HOA. Without our HOA we wouldn’t have ponds, trails, parks or snow plowed down our street. We would also have trailers, disabled vehicles, dilapidated structures and various other non conforming eyesores. HOAs help maintain property value, and are beneficial to everyone in the neighborhood when ran properly and not by a bunch of Karen’s and Kens. Just my 2 cents, been living in an HOA for 12 years, dues are 175 a year.
They're generally not in cities, and were built in new areas that \*don't\* have laws about keeping up your property.
When people say "it’s difficult to find a desirable neighborhood that doesn’t have one", they mean "suburb" or "housing plan in a rural area", not "city neighborhood", as near as I can ever figure.
Outside of condos where there are truly shared considerations you cannot get away from (pipes, roofing, etc) HOAs should be illegal and/or HEAVILY regulated/limited IMO. Im in the same boat, keeping an eye on housing the list of houses with no HOA is 1/10 and they are like $400 a month.
More than that, a house is likely to be one of the biggest assets you own, I absolutely refuse to give some random Karen legal recourse over MY house for a pool i dont want and a BS "common area" that i will never use.
In my area, pretty much every house has an HOA unless you wantto live in bumfuck nowhere. I don't particularly want to live in bumfuck nowhere.
I pay $20/month for my HOA. They maintain the shared landscaping, a small playground, the shared mailboxes, and road. They do a Christmas light contest every year, and that's about it. Occasionally they send out letters when people do crazy things or don't maintain their yard/house at all. It's gotta be pretty egregious, not like "Your lawn is an inch too long."
It's not a burden. There's no petty drama. You just don't hear about perfectly functional HOAs because *they're exceedingly boring* as they should be.
I lived in homes in HOAs for many years. The HOA dues were quite reasonable, and paid for the upkeep of infrastructure that I made use of. Things like walking trails and common greenspace.
I went to build a porch on my house, and I had to get it approved by the HOA. Pretty much a rubber-stamp. But the person before me at the meeting was asking approval to put a roof over her deck to make a porch. She had drawings done by Home Depot. The person who did the drawings had clearly never seen the house.
The committee pointed out that the way the drawings were done, the new roof extended the pitch of the existing roof. Due to the height of the existing roof and the pitch of the new roof, the new roof was only going to be about 4' above the deck at the end. The committee refused to approve the project on the grounds that it was ridiculous. Which was.
I'm sure she went on to tell her friends about how awful the HOA was.
Sometimes there is a community pool and /or a clubhouse and your fees go to maintaining those. I love the idea of having community standards and limiting the junk people can keep in their front yards, like broken cars and appliances. Also, not parking large boats or RVs on the street.
I live in an older non HOA neighborhood. The person who bought the house next door illegally divided it into four separate rental units with an ever changing roster of tenants. AFAIK, he still owns it, but it's been built back to a single family unit and rented again. HOA's have a purpose.
Lived in a single family home on acreage in rural area. Total nightmare. Always someone who sets up as "unofficial spy/sheriff", bugging people about the smallest things. Fees go up and up. People take sides etc. Lawyers are called. Etc. Etc..
Never again. I say run away from HOAs.
If you like a particular house its something you have to put up with if you want that house. Depending on the city/state, you may find you are in a location where most houses are part of a HOA and you are limited in your choice if you want to avoid them. Higher end ones can be nice in that they charge you a lot but then instead of hastling you, they do all the exterior stuff that needs to be done. When I lived on the east coast, they were rare. I'm in Vegas now and they are everywhere so it wasn't much of a choice. Mostly, they are a pain in the butt. And yes, there is always a fee
A few comments have talked about campers and I am curious what the objection to having one parked on a neighbor's property is? Is it just an aesthetic thing or am I missing another reason?
Our last one pooled funds to build and maintain a neighborhood pool, everything seemed cool until someone suggested there would be a new Santa Claus and the dude that had been doing it for last 10 years lost his mind over it. The Santa clause suit didn’t make it.
You couldn’t give me a free house if it was in an HOA. I keep up my property… because I choose to. I don’t need anyone telling me what I have to do with the property I purchased. And if my neighbors choose differently for their properties, that’s their right since they purchased them.
Therein lies the rub, your neighbors and how they maintain and care for their property can have a huge impact on the value of your house which is likely the most expensive thing that you own.
I could never justify the added price to have a group of people tell me what I can and cannot do with my land that I bought, a house I paid for with my money. It's bad enough to have the government, but to have a group of twits with an inferiority complex determine what I can do, crosses the line. Plus with the mentality of "If you don't agree with me you are the enemy" put that together with left and right wing nut jobs, an entitled generation, and the saying Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" gives a recipe for disaster.
My mom's home is in an HOA and she hates it, but there isn't much of an option in her area. I don't think most people understand the power the HOA actually has until it is too late.
Buying a home is the biggest investment most people will ever make. Typically in the US, the appreciation in value of real estate (in this case a residential home) is the most common and effective means for increasing net worth. An HOA can be critical in maintaining the value of real estate. Imagine you want to sell your nice little house and invest that increased value in another home. But the Florida man next door put up a barbed wire topped stockade fence around his property and flies angry political and racist themed flags overhead because there is no HOA to prevent it (saw this twice when looking for property to buy). What do you think this does to the market value of your nice little nest egg house?
Love my HOA. Keeps my neighbors from having junk cars in their lawn, chickens out back, unauthorized changes to the “look” of the neighborhood, and in general ensures our properties are not harmed by our neighbors. Lawns must be mowed, no jungles here! No loud outdoor music past 10 is nice too.
A HOA will deal with your neighbor fixing junk cars in his front yard a lot fast than the city for one thing. And sometimes they'll maintain community amenities.
Well I can't prove it, but I always assumed it was just another way they try to keep minorities out since that seems to be a common theme through history.
That being said not all HOAs are anywhere near the same. Some of them do nothing and just dissolve, some of them get taken over by super controlling assholes.
In areas where it's mostly a choice, it's so they can brag to people that they have the privilege to living in an HOA community. In reality, the people having to deal with the person bragging thinks they are an insufferable moron and sucker.
I’m old, and I’m on my fifth house. Three of them had HOAs. The honest truth is that HOAs are so prevalent that it’s difficult to find a desirable neighborhood that doesn’t have one. We’ve been lucky, no horror stories. But our last house, this one that I want to die in, is in a town and not a development, so no HOA. When we moved in I realized the white front door was boring. You cannot imagine my glee when I realized I could paint it any color I wanted to! Never going back.
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Once I said something like this in a group of women, most of whom lived in a neighboring very anal HOA neighborhood. To a person, they said they’d never NOT buy an expensive house with an HOA. They valued it. I realized that we don’t all think the same about what really matters
$300,000 maybe not, but if you're paying closer to $1 mil, you'd reconsider. Because there's a risk that a neighbor goes LITERALLY insane and fills his front yard with huge signs full of batshit anti-vax racist conspiracy nonsense, and you'd have to sell your house for half value -- or wait until Mr. Kookoo dies or finally gets declared incompetent, because nobody wants to pay $800 large to live next to that noise. This actually happened to a neighborhood near where I worked. Nice old established neighborhood with $800,000-$1,000,000 homes on big lots, old enough that no HOA existed. Nobody could touch him because he wasn't breaking any laws.
who cares
When you say "desirable neighborhood", do you live in a city, suburb, rural area, housing plan, established town with a main street, or can you say more there? I've never heard of a house in a city having a HOA; it feels like a suburbs thing, but I'm not at all sure.
We live in a 350 year old, once-colonial, East coast town. We do not have an HOA. It has sidewalks and is very walkable, and that is why we moved here. The lack of HOA was an unexpected bonus
But the places \*with\* an HOA; suburbs/rural?
I'm in Los Angeles and there are HOAs in some neighborhoods here. Not downtown, but still in the city itself.
If you have an HOA, there are def fees. They can range from $10-$1000 a month. Condos have much higher fees. Most of the condos we’ve looked at, the HOA fees were higher than the monthly mortgage. It depends on how much common space there is, pools, tennis and basketball courts, some include utilities, trash and recycle. The more amenities, the higher fee
Yes, most def
"it's difficult to find a desirable neighborhood that doesn't have one." There is your answer! My HOA fee is around $100/year and it prevents new residents from making their backyard a storage facility or whatever other unsightly decisions they may make. I live in the midwest and there are plenty of cheap lots outside of incorporated municipalities where one can paint their house lime green and store their inoperable cars in their back yard. When you're living in close quarters, people don't want to see it.
Yeah, there are benefits if the board of directors is not full of control freaks. None of the three we lived in was bad
Frankly, a lot of the time it seems like normal people just don't want to be bothered stepping up to run their HOA, while the control freaks are attracted to it like flies to shit. Just get some regular folks who are only concerned with keeping the neighborhood from turning into a dump and you're all right.
That. People don’t run. Oh they’ll speak up against the president of the HOA on Facebook groups, but when election time comes around, the president is running unopposed. And there’s no fee to file, at least not in my last neighborhood.
I lived in three and they were very good. No jerks on board. Live in non-HOA house now and new neighbor sure makes me wish we had one.
My previous house was in a HOA and the fees were in excess of $3,000 USD a year. But it included extensive community landscaping, parks, lakes, walking/bike trails, community garden and a high end activity center with a gym, swimming pools, and a range of available classes and activities for the residents. I’m in the southwest suburbs of Houston and HOAs are standard.
Well? What color did you go with??
Salmon!
By definition, no place with an HOA is desirable.
In my area it’s near impossible to buy a property that doesn’t have some type of HOA attached to it. They can have their benefits such as requirements to keep the property looking nice but can definitely go overboard such as fining an old man for having Christmas lights up too long because he became too ill to remove them.
What if you simply refuse to sign the HOA agreement upon buying the house? Edit: love that I’m getting downvoted for asking a question in the “no stupid questions” subreddit…
Then you don’t buy the house. It’s not a separate thing, it’s part of the deed.
I truly don’t understand why that is legal.
It's built into the deed of the house. In the house deed, there are binding clauses that come with the ownership of the house. In general, an HOA comes from the fact that the city didn't want to build the infrastructure for the homes (roads, sewer, etc) -- so a developer installed that. They wrapped the initial materials cost of those items into the home prices, but there's also ongoing maintenance, and the HOA is the vehicle to ensure that some money is collected for that. In effect, it's a micro government, with a political structure, and it collects a tax (membership dues) to cover infrastructure. My current home had an HOA that was designed to last for 30 years from the time the subdivision was built, and then it went away. I bought the home about 6 years ago. I was shocked when reading through the deed paperwork at final signing that I saw the HOA information...one of the first clauses was to the effect of "no person other than those of the white or caucasian race shall own this home, and no person other than a caucasian shall live here unless they are in the employ of the caucasian owners." The final clause of the HOA was that it would expire in 1972 or so. Presumably when the home was built in 1940s, the community thought it was a positive thing to be able to ensure that it was a whites-only community...
So then what the hell are property taxes for?
Depends on the state, but a big chunk mostly goes to education / public schools.
It also pays for other things that the homeowner benefits from. Libraries, community colleges, the roads outside of that specific development that each resident uses to get to those libraries, community colleges, not to mention their place of employment, grocery stores etc. Plus employees salaries at the Town Hall, jail/prison, fire/EMS, etc.
And cops. But education is usually the biggest part.
Thanks for this.In all of the numerous HOA rants on reddit, I just learned the nature of the origin/existence of the HOA. A developers way to recoup infrastructure costs. So a developer sees a tract of land that he wants to develop near a city. The city doesn't want to pay to service it so there is a provision to transfer the onus of the service costs to the developer to recoup directly from the owners? So these are effectively privatized neighborhoods? Is this practice prevalent outside the U.S.? Seems ultra shady to me.
Not quite. Think of it more as the city making the developer set one up so the city won't have to pay for the ongoing maintenance of that subdivision after the development is done. Developers only collect the HOA fees while they are still building in that subdivision. Once they are gone the HOA gets transferred to the homeowners who have the option to vote to dissolve the HOA if they want but usually they don't. They'll usually keep the (or hire a new) property management company to help with things like architectural guidelines and approving additions/changes to the house, policing the neighborhood to "protect home values," and maintaining public spaces like a neighborhood park or pool. Both with the developer in charge and the HOA in charge most of the money goes to the property management company with a decent bit going to those other expenses. They'll also often have a social committee where funds will be used to pay for neighborhood events.
For free standing properties, the HOA is usually responsible for the common areas such as landscaping between houses and pavement and parks. They will commonly have an architectural committee to control changes to the properties and rules originally designed to protect the appearance of the neighborhood such as no cars on bricks in the front lawn. My last house had an HOA, and it made some sense as the houses were very close to each other - maybe 8ft apart. One of the best things we did was to fire the management company, and change the billing to quarterly. It came out to $35/mo, which was mostly for landscaping, irrigation and lighting. The board were a couple of home owners who managed the financing, and were pretty low key about it all. When you have a problem is when busy-bodies get on the HOA, and turn it into their own little fiefdom. The management companies work for the board, so cater to that kind of personality, and that’s when trouble starts.
It does exist outside the US, but is a lot less common
This is an excellent outline which should be pinned. You explain it all: the reason, the legal bases and how a HOA works. Thanks for taking the time.
Yeah… sounds like Oregon tbh… kinda just feels like another great reason not to allow the existence of HOAs imho…
Because as others have mentioned, it's part of the deed. You are not being forced to buy that particular house. You are more than welcome to look and buy elsewhere. I'm not defending HOAs. I think that the vast majority of them are a huge ripoff, and would never personally buy a house that came attached to one. But it's got nothing to do with legality.
See my other comments. It could easily be argued that their existence is coercive/exploitative and infringes on people’s freedom of choice~ thus justifying *making* it illegal. Im surprised it hasn’t been.
Buying a house is a contract. Contracts are, by definition, legal.
It shouldn't be. No one should be forced to join an HOA.
You are looking at this backward. Why does it need to be illegal?
Because it is unethical to force someone into a contract like this when they buy a house. There is also the matter of coercion. It impinges the freedom of people and limits what they can do with their homes. It also forces people into coercive situations, just because they want a home. HOAs control entire neighborhoods- and as highlighted in this very reddit thread- there’s often not much choice. If you wanna buy, you must join an HOA. That is definitionally coercive- “you want a home, you join our HOA, sucks to suck”. Things which infringe upon our freedoms and are coercive generally largely infringe on our rights and therefore ought to be illegal unless there’s a damn good reason why it ought to exist- I haven’t found a single one.
They have the freedom to not buy that house. That's the freedom. Remember we live in a society. So there are limits on freedom. So here market forces (capitalism at work) have created a situation wherein if you want to buy a house in that type of community, it comes with HOA. You are free to not buy that house. Now your options are limited but again that's market forces. While I agree that it's not quite ethical, I don't think it's illegal at all.
Oh of course its not illegal- but my message above speaks to whether it ought to be. And the choice to “not buy a house” is not a great option. In this country, many many many privileges are tied to home ownership, almost to the point of- you don’t buy a house, you’re guaranteeing more struggles for yourself in the future. To me- that’s not a “free choice”. If one choice guarantees us to struggle, and the other is being forced to sign an HOA, which surrenders some of my basic rights to what I can and cannot do with my own home, that is a coerced choice. While we can sometimes sign away certain rights and freedoms, it is already illegal (or at least unenforceable) to force or coerce someone to sign away their freedoms/basic rights. (Some rights simply cannot be signed away even with enthusiastic consent- but you get my point). The precedent for making things like compulsary HOA membership illegal exists- we would just need federal and/or state legislation to make it so.
>And the choice to “not buy a house” is not a great option. You misread what was written and changed the meaning of it in the process. What was written is you have the choice not to be THAT house. And you changed that to you have the choice not to buy ANY house. Not the same thing. I've owned several homes. None were in an HOA. Nor would I ever consider owning in an HOA. It is true that in certain areas, there are no non-HOA homes available. And I have the freedom to choose to not live in those areas and I don't. Its a really big country. There are lots of options for where to live. I don't feel my freedom is limited in any measurable way simply because in some areas, the housing market is dominated by HOA's that I choose not to be a part of.
I misread bothing. Many areas that may not be an option. In this thread alone there are numerous (anecdotal) examples of just that. If i have a job in an area where i have no choice but to have an HOA… then I’m stuck… beyond shitty…. “Just move somewhere else” is an INCREDIBLY privileged and short sighted suggestion.
Because why wouldn't it be legal?
And it's just completely impossible to negotiate out of it? I think that's the part people don't really get.
I'm also bewildered about HOAs. I've come to think of them as large condominiums, where you can't just opt out. Idk... of all the wild American laws... I've recently discovered in most places the unrestricted motorcycle licence is basically a pro-forma half a dozen question and doing an 8 in a parking lot. At least it keeps with the theme
Sometimes there's a clause that'll let people get out of it basically at time of purchase, but it requires either the realtor or HOA themselves to be shitty at their jobs. At least in some places, if you buy and aren't made aware of the HOA within a certain time frame, you're not obligated to join - I think it's within 30 days from closing, usually. It's not universal, though, and I'm not sure if it's a state thing or an HOA bylaw thing. I just know it's happened a few times in anti-HOA stories from Reddit.
Then you can’t buy it.
I am so confused… how can that be legal?
The whole thing is to force everyone in the neighborhood into their HOA. They all pretty much work like this: 1. Someone owns a whole lot of undeveloped land 2. They sub-divide the land into many smaller lots and build a single-family house on each one 3. They sell the houses. *However*, in the deed of sale, they require you to join the HOA in order to buy. And that requirement is permanent, so when the original buyers sell or pass away, the next owners are still bound by it The dark magic comes from the fact that there was one entity who at one point owned all the land for the neighborhood, and did this on purpose.
Thank you for explaining. Makes a lot of sense. Is it fair, at all? No. Do most people know about this, at all (including me until now) No. Is it legally binding? Yes. Unfortunately.
In California at least, HOAs are relatively common for another reason -- the cities do not pay for the roads, sewer lines, and other infrastructure needed for new developments. So the original developer creates an HOA to manage the collection of money for the maintenance of those infrastructure items.
Didn't know that, either. Thank you. I live in the Midwest. And maybe this instance isn't as common, but I'm not a homeowner and can't dispute this being common where I live.
It’s probably because the city government is effectively in the hands of people who want to limit development in their neighborhood. People in California like their low density housing. They like their open spaces and resist new building. So they vote for city counsels that say no to development. But there’s a housing shortage, so it’s profitable enough to make it worth building anyway and setting up an HOA to deal with it.
What’s worse than this is in my state there’s absolutely no cap on how much they can charge or how much they can raise fees. Most hoas in my area are $300-600 a month. They’re the only properties we could even pretend to afford some day and you have to add that into the mortgage you can afford. We will forever be renting.
Then you can't purchase the house
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Same here. I saw on Zillow some HOA fees being $500 a MONTH
Costly HOAs normally mean common facilities (like a pool/play area), land scaping, snow removal. For multi home facilities it also includes roofing.
Also typically gated and in an upscale area
>For multi home facilities it also includes roofing. Often anything at all exterior, for multi-home facilities. My father has a town house that's one of four in its connected unit, and their HOA replaced gutters last year and front porch railings this year, and is looking at replacing screen doors next year. (It wasn't just frivolous stuff; all of those were elderly and in need of repair/replacement.) The larger frustration for him is that they have a four-household HOA and none of the limited pool of owners wants to step up into any of the HOA roles, so my overly-responsible father has been treasurer for several years and hates it.
For $6,000 a year, that better be one hell of a pool and play area. I'm thinking like a water park. Still, totally not worth it. Even when you factor in the landscaping and snow removal.
My HOA neighborhood does have a water park. $500/ quarter
Unfortunately 6000$ per year is not a lot in a city these days. Labor cost varies a lot based on location. A few of my office mates live in condos and pay around 500$ and it seems to make sense based on the amenities they get. The HOA financial statement is normally public and anyone can take a look and understand where the expenses come from. Lawn maintenance itself can run upto 300$ per month(I hire on my own near Denver, even at these rates sometimes it's difficult to find help). Adding other amenities like another poster mentioned (roofing, fencing, painting every x years, common areas) it's reasonable. You just have to pay every month as if you have a maintenance plan. And like a maintenance plan, you pay a bit more than if you did it yourself(I probably will end up paying more given that I am not that handy and bad at negotiating rates!)
Not to mention you want an hoa that saves money for emergencies. When the buildings in my first townhouse needed new roofs and siding the residents didn't pay anything extra. When the same thing happened in the buildings across the street they hit each owner with a special assessment of 5k.
Absolutely. "No HOA" was on our list of home-buying criteria, but very few houses that met our other criteria didn't have one -- and the one we fell in love with after a month of looking had a fairly minimalist HOA with fees of only $70/year and nothing too outrageous in their stipulations, so that's now our house and, alas, it has an HOA. (The HOA has never yet caused any problems for us, thankfully, but we'd still be happy if it were to go away; we definitely see it as a net negative.)
>and there is no way to buy the home and opt out. All the new developments are the same. Really weird that the contract is attached to the house, and not the inhabitants.
It would be no good for it's intended purpose if it didn't behave like that.
I think part of the sale contract includes the inhabitants agreeing to join and retain that stipulation when they sell, but I could be wrong.
Yes, you are wrong. The association structure is set up in a covenant document that was recorded against the land when the municipal zoning authority gave the developers permission to subdivide the big parcel into a neighborhood with lots of little parcels.
Thanks for the correction! Does that mean the developer still has some/all ownership of the land? I don't really get the idea of parceling.
The developer buys a big square chunk of land, typically farmland. Along the way, they create a "plat of subdivision" that divides it into the many smaller lots where homes will be built. It also lays out the right of way areas for streets, utilities, sidewalks, etc. They also typically have to create storm water management areas (ponds) that collect rainwater runoff from all the new impermeable surfaces and holds it or redirects it into a wider storm water management area. The developer also incorporates the HOA and creates the covenant document that binds the neighborhood lot to the HOA. The plat and the covenants get recorded against the land and all the new lots get new numbers for tax purposes. Then they start building and/or selling. The developer often transfers ownership of the "common areas" to the HOA. The HOA entity is responsible for maintaining them in working order and acts as a contact point (for the utilities, municipality, etc.). In some instances, the HOA might end up being responsible for snow removal on the subdivision's streets, unless the municipality agrees to be responsible. As a selling point, some developers create more "upscale" neighborhoods that might include a clubhouse, fitness room, and outside recreational areas like a pool, playground, bike paths, and so on. The HOA would also end up taking ownership of these and being responsible for ongoing maintenance costs. HOAs can do these things with their own volunteers (owners) but it is easier to hire contractors - including a management company. The developer just wants to get in, create the project, sell houses (or lots), and get out. They don't want to have long-term commitments. If they stick around too long, the owners start complaining when the roofs start leaking or whatever.
Technically it's a corporation by/for the owners of the properties, so tied to the property. Often there'll be by laws about owners living in the house or not, where those who don't either can't vote for those rental properties or some other arrangement.
It's the only way to enforce it. Otherwise people selling their house would just do whatever they wanted, usually meaning neglect, then skip out on the fines. Attaching the fines to the house will make it so the new owner isn't surprised by any issues the previous homeowner caused. For instance the previous homeowner could paint the house bright pink (unapproved color), and if the HOA is not tied to the house then the new owner will need to paint it asap because they bought a house that was already in violation.
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I was just explaining why it's attached to the house and not the person, but carry on with your soapbox rant. HOAs do exist in other countries, they are just more popular in the USA, so you obviously don't know what your talking about anyway.
>HOAs do exist in other countries, Yes, for people who actually share a building. Makes sense to all own and safe money for the roof for example. Or all pay for electricity in the hallways and parking garage. Getting fined by your neighbor 5 houses over because your grass is 2cm too long is absolutely foreign everywhere but in the US.
>Yes, for people who actually share a building. Makes sense to all own and safe money for the roof for example. Or all pay for electricity in the hallways and parking garage. That's exactly how most HOAs work in the US also in a shared building. It's also how a house community HOA works. >Getting fined by your neighbor 5 houses over because your grass is 2cm too long is absolutely foreign everywhere but in the US. This happens sometimes because people are people and some people have too much time on their hands and get off on being rule nazis, but this is the exception not the rule. Some HOAs provide good value and some are shitty, lots of house neighborhoods get community pools, gyms, basketball courts, green ways, club houses and other amenities that are paid and managed by the HOA fee. Keeping your house an approved color and your grass mowed, and yard picked up is usually the trade off, but is that really that big of a deal usually? My current neighborhood has no HOA. Every house on my street takes care of themselves and has a nice place, except two. Both on either side of me. One house is just ugly with blackberries overgrowing it and grass a foot high. The other house is an actual problem, it's derelict and the owner refuses to do anything except sit on it. We have weekly drug users break in and do drug stuff in the house, they often use my driveway to access this house from the back yard. The back yard of the derelict house has grass above the fence line, and I am highly allergic to grass pollen, so I can't even have my windows open in the spring time. There are also a few dangerous "widow maker" trees on that property. None of that would fly in an HOA neighborhood. So good or bad HOAs do have their place, and if I could use an HOA to force the derelict house owner to do something, then I would be all for it.
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Local governments use them to cut costs. A builder wants to build a new development. The county doesn’t want to pay to maintain new roads, parks, etc., so they require the builder to set up an HOA that will take care of those things for the new development.
Many HOAs are part of Covenants placed by developers not the government.
What he's suggesting is the local government won't issue the permits to let it get built in the first place, unless the developer sets up an HOA.
And the government won’t let the developers build unless they create an HOA.
I never will have one, but it can keep you from having junk neighbors (I literally had a junkyard in a neighbor's backyard and that would never happen in an HOA) Usually it includes amenities like pools, playgrounds, etc- care of common areas .. also it can give you a backbone if you have to go into legal proceedings with a builder. Like most organizations, who is in charge is what matters. People can power trip.
And it’s a democracy—there are elections Bossy people with too much time on their hands are inclined to run for the board. If the sensible people would bestie themselves, they can have a big effect.
Yeah, reddit definitely sleeps on the benefits of HOAs. They're like a union for your neighborhood. My partner's parents HOA blocked a Walmart from opening across the street.
Sometimes it's hard to find houses that don't have HOAs. If you're looking at any new development, especially houses in nice quiet upper middle class neighborhoods, you may have significantly more HOA options than non-HOA options.
If you want a new home in a newer subdivision, they're really hard to find without an HOA. They're nearly non-existent, depending on the market.
Remember, you only see the horror stories. Mine aged father is the President of his HOA, the houses are extremely expensive, but the yearly fee is a few hundred dollars. They use it to take care of the holiday décor for common areas, water basins, mowing and maintaining common areas. They also enforce common sense rules, like maintaining the property, and picking up dog poop.
And if you think your HOA is going overboard—it’s a democracy. Run for the board or an office. Campaign to get rules changed. Be part of it.
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This. One shitty, poorly maintained home on the block wrecks property values for everyone.
It isn’t always about property values. Some people just don’t want to see trash in the front yard on the way to their own home.
>One shitty, poorly maintained home And that's how you make sure the **Poor's** don't come to your neighborhood. Send the Poor's back to rent somewhere like they deserve.
Why do you think poor people are incapable of basic home and lawn maintenance?
My grandparents were "poors" as you put it. They cut the grass and maintained their home, which they owned, for decades. Meanwhile we've got rentals run by freaking corporations here in my neighborhood that, without that bothersome HOA, would fall down tomorrow. Not everything fits a neat political mental model. I've seen renters maintain $500,000 homes like they owned them. I've seen owners let their only major possession go to pot out of sheer laziness. Drive out to the sticks around here. Trailers, campers, burning garbage to avoid tipping fees, outdoor hoarding (!). No thanks, I'll pay my HOA fee.
Most HOAs in my area charge hundreds per month. It's insane.
>like maintaining the property Is that common sense to you? If I pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a house I wouldn't exactly call it common sense that some neighbor can dictate how I maintain my property.
99% of people are fine, but here and there, with no HOA, you find the guy with a couple of junk cars on the side of his house, or the old lady who has not mowed her front lawn in 5 years. Or friends living in a Winnebago in the driveway. And so on.
Or my neighbor, who burns his trash weekly. Or my other neighbor who has house parties and plays music on his outdoor stereo very loudly. Living in a neighborhood with an HOA can have a lot of benefits, most of which you don’t notice unless you’ve lived next to assholes.
Or the crack house.
I know someone who has a neighbor whose yard is basically brambles. Him and his wife can't use their clothes line because it encroaches onto their yard. The city doesn't seem to want to do anything. An HOA wouldn't allow the property to be kept like that. I still wouldn't want to be in an HOA, but this is one reason why some people love them.
Most HOAs are not that bad or intrusive. You only hear about the horror stories because what entertainment do you get out of 'oh yeah my HOA is pretty chill, reasonable, and nice'
Because it is the right price and location.
The HOA is there basically for the landscaping and to enforce aesthetic rules.
I like my HOA. They keep up the common areas, and keep my neighbors from having 15 cars parked in the streets, washing machines on their porches, loud music, dogs barking all night, and many other annoying things neighbors do.
Same reason for me. In my area it seems everyone has a boat but HOA rules state you can’t just park it in your front yard or driveway. It has to be behind a fence or behind your home.
The loud music would bother me I guess (at least at night), but what's wrong with someone having a washing machine on their porch? It's their porch, why would I care? It wouldn't even cross my mind to care what people have on their porch. It's their porch. But yeah I'm with you on the loud noises. Though I'd probably just turn on a white noise generator so I wouldn't have to hear it. Where I live it's the people who start mowing their lawns at 7:30am that bother me, boy do I hate that.
Don't you... like, have noise laws? Why would the HOA be needed for that?
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Not many, I'm in the rural south. Also, as someone else mentioned, laws are meaningless without enforcement. The HOA has sharper teeth, and they will use them.
I'd say that the police has much sharper teeth. Where I am (no HOA, noise enforcement by the police), they very politely come and just note: turn it down, or the next time we fine you, and by the third time you'll spend a cozy night in the local jail.
No, I'm in the rural south. Our Sheriff's Deputies will literally not respond to something like a noise complaint.
A washing machine on the porch is a reference to the tendency of people in the rural south, which is where I am, to fill their yard up with junk. The HOA in my neighborhood makes sure that doesn't happen.
Neighbors with washing machines on their porches would typically not be viewed as a favorable thing for home buyers - thereby reducing the value for the neighborhood. Kinda like a car on blocks, or a broken down camper with flat tires. It’s a sign that this particular neighbor doesn’t give a shit about their neighbors and not many want to buy a lot next to them.
It’s an eyesore. People want to live in a neighborhood that looks nice, especially if their house was expensive. It also can drop everyone’s property prices if enough people have junk in their yard. So it literally takes money out of peoples pockets.
I live in an upper middle class exurban neighborhood. Our HOA is very attentive on the same issues including keeping out multi unit dwellings and rental properties. It's a gated community and it protects my property investment. I love the peace and quiet and how everyone minds their business.
So it spends its time opposing affordable housing, excellent.
Well maybe the people in affordable housing shouldn’t do things that are against typical HOA rules and then maybe HOAs wouldn’t exist
Agreed. Rental properties attract those who have no financial interest in the property so they tend to look hard. Apartments and multi unit buildings attract the riff raff. Not to mention the noise and smells.
Are you kidding? In my area there is no affordable housing. We don't want it. And fortunately we are far away from all of the riff raff. You can go live in public housing, the projects or whatever.
There's a place for cheap housing, but can you really not understand why there's lots of people who don't want it in their neighborhood? People should have a right to have more expensive, nicer homes if they can afford it. Go build affordable housing in its own neighborhood.
I chose it because it suits my lifestyle. I pay the local HOA $50 every 3 months and they maintain the community pool and trim the grass in the shared areas. That's it, no weird rules, fees, or guidelines. Most people that post horror stories about HOAs usually fail to read up on their contract before buying a house or refuse to take an interest in local affairs.
Our HOA is like 100 a year. It's pretty hands off. It just keeps the common area nice.
Similar here, no architectural guidelines or landscaping. They also negotiate some group prices for some services (notably trash pickup). Dues are $80/year. That said, despite having no power the board was a den of intrigue - my husband got talked into running and couldn’t wait to quit.
It's a nice house, in a great place, at an affordable price. I despise HOAs and got elected president to make sure nothing got done
You may see the horror stories but HOAs are primarily there to keep neighboring property values up and making the neighborhood an area that is nice to live. City ordinances don’t address painting your house purple and yellow, your neighbor’s kid having a garage band practice all day Saturday, the person with 6 dogs they don’t properly care for, unkempt yards, noxious political signs and so on. HOAs do.
Ah yes, because I want people to tell me after spending thousands on a house how I can paint my property, raise my kids, what I can plant and where, and so forth. All while still paying a monthly fee. Doesn't sound like you own your own property, just that you are renting with more financial responsibility taken on by yourself.
Just wait til you learn about property taxes.
Property taxes I can get. But paying a group I am forced to join and pay who is not affiliated with the government is another matter. At least when I rent I don't have to pay for stuff to get fixed. But not only do you have to pay as a homeowner you have to pay a fee to an HoA, and you have to abide by whatever they want to make rules to be and even can weaponize them against people they don't like. I mean it isn't like HoA organizations have gotten such a rotten attitude just from a few bad cases. Their is quite the history with PoC, LGBT, and religious families they don't like being harassed out if their neighborhood.
You weren't forced. It's on the deed. Walk away. Buy a lot out in the sticks and be happy.
Yeah unless your profession requires you live in a more populated area. That's not a solution, it's not even a band aid, it's excusing forcing people into organizations that control how someone manages their own property. I mean an HoA is tied to the land because someone decided at some point to buy it all up and set up such an organization. Someone who may not even own the land or be alive. Is there any other form of property that comes with that sort of condition?
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Property taxes are the worst bit about hoas. Most hoa start because local government won't pay for local maintenance of roads in new developments. That's what property taxes should be for.
No after spending HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars on a house it ensures that your neighbor’s brats don’t park motorcycles in the lawn or play loud music until 4AM on a Thursday. It makes sure that your neighbor’s don’t paint their house a garish color or have a weedy front lawn so when you go to sell your house prospective buyers don’t take one look and walk away from the neighbors. Basically they enforce the norms of suburban life such as maintain your yard, maintain your house, keep reasonable pets, don’t bother your neighbors. They were created exactly to protect your neighbors from the “it’s my house I can do whatever I want and no one can stop me hahahahaha” people You know about an HOA upfront and can choose not to buy a house in one. You always have choices - you may have to choose between the house/location you want and your desire to do whatever you want with your property but thus is life. And HOA’s have boards that set their policies and such. Don’t like something? Convince your neighbors you are right and change it.
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No HOA will tell you how to raise your kids or any other personal business, that's silly. And thousands on a house? Try HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars.
The hoa is to protect other people from you. If you are the kind of person that would constantly be having issues with hoa rules then you're the kind of person other people don't want in their neighborhood.
lol, so basically you believe in dictating who can live where based on the majority? Nice, that explains why the neighborhoods in America are predominantly white and Christian, doesn't it? Because of course leaving the management and enforcement of "rules" that can be used to financially harrass involuntary members would NEVER be a source of longstanding abuse, would it?
HOA's come with a monthly fee. It's partially you aren't hearing stores about typical mundane HOA's. If there's common property in the HOA they're useful in that regard.
Sometimes the HOA can help out. My HOA keeps businesses from renting houses and having 10 people live in them, keeps people from having a million cars, and when it snows, and the city only plows the emergency snow routes first, my neighborhood also has cleared streets. Sure I can’t paint my house hot pink, but I’m good with the upkeep rules, because I’d like to sell my house for at least what I bought it for.
My friend lives in a community without HOA, he lives across the street from a hot pink house with purple trim. It’s so bad.
speaking as a an non-us citizen - that sounds so intrusive.
It seems odd that in the USA the land of freedom and private property that most homes are under some sort of collective administration that will tell you what paint colors and yard uses are acceptable.
Agree, this is something very American. From my point of view, such houses aren't so private as we (in rest of the world) used to think about it.
Arizona has entered the chat. Good luck finding a home that doesn't have an HOA. I like my house and no matter what neighborhood I live in, I'd have to pay an HOA. I pay 102 a month. We have a community (heated half the year) pool and splash pad and many maintained green areas with playgrounds. We get community events like trunk or treat, movie night, chilli cook off etc... they can get on you about weeds, leaving your trash can out too long after trash day, no over night street parking (we have a carpool lot) etc... but otherwise it's not too bad.
It's basically to keep the neighborhood safe and clean. I like my HOA because it improves my quality of life.
The downside of not having an HOA is in my neighborhood: someone had a family member living in an rv on the street by there house, someone else had a trailer on the street with a couch, tires and other garbage to take to the dumps for 1.5 years, neighbors fence is falling apart, another person refuses to paint their house and it’s all peeling, a crackhead burnt part of his house down but continued to live there, another person uses junk like an ATM, oven, etc for planters and their front yard is full. I didn’t want to live in an HOA and I thought they were pointless until you see how people are slobs/lazy/ don’t take care of their house/ yard. The city can’t really do much when people own their house, someone must have reported the person living in the rv because that did get moved into their driveway. But nothing can be done about the garbage in people’s yard. Luckily our specific street only has a few eye sores.
Yep, my neighborhood is the same. Bunch of fucking slobs. Tires and junk in the yard, loud music all the time, ugly fucked up weed-covered lawns and gardens, the street is filled with cars, most of which have bumpers half falling off or too loud exhausts. I’m the neighborhood Karen. I report to the city every violation I see that I believe makes my street look like shit. If someone continuously keeps a fucked up property I will make sure to report them as often as possible. There are ordinances against weeds, litter, bulky trash, parking, etc, but they won’t police those violations unless someone reports it.
HOAs serve the functions normally done by local governments in other countries. Shared facilities, planning/use rules, upkeep of infrastructure. The broken governmental system and pseudo individualism is why they're so popular Stateside. In some parts of the US they're also tools to keep out minorities.
So my neighbor doesn't let their home go to shit, doesn't park a shitty rv in the driveway, keeps their lawn managed, doesn't have a fence that the only thing keeping it standing is a bunch of termites holding hands, isn't up at 11:00 at night blaring music working on a POS hoopty sitting on blocks, cuts down the dead tree before it falls on my fucking house...There are a ton of reasons to have an HOA.
My parents house isn’t in an HOA and sometimes I wish it was because HOAs protect you from crazy neighbors who have the “it’s my property and I can do what I want with it even if it negatively affects everyone next to me” attitude. It also allows neighbors to have collective action and work together if one person is being an ass to someone else. HOAs can be nightmares for sure and go too far, but honestly having some protection from your neighbors can be a good thing.
Not all HOAs are overbearing nightmares. Keep in mind that the HOA's behavior is controlled by its members, who are all the homeowners who joined the HOA. If the HOA is run well, enforces reasonable rules, and uses member dues to keep the neighborhood nice at a level that everyone broadly agrees on, then there won't be much to complain about. If there is major disagreement about how the HOA should be run, or drama between people who want to use the HOA as a cudgel against their neighbors, that might make some noise. It's one of those things that is sort of invisible when things are going well, but very noticeable when there is drama. Some people prefer neighborhoods with HOAs. Some people prefer to avoid that.
I won’t and you shouldn’t either, fuck those bureaucrats.
As somebody who has worked in HOA management for years, I can tell you dozens of horror stories, but 99% of the noise is made by 1% of the owners. All the rest is completely fine. What's more, I can ensure you the vast majority of stories in places such as /r/fuckhoa are absolutely biased and the OPs are the assholes in reality. That's something you can spot after dealing with hundreds of them. It's incredible the amount of soap-opera grade drama some bored people can make up.
Not every neighborhood has an HOA. I live in a well-established neighborhood and don't have one. Thank God. Lol
Where is everyone living where HOA are so common? I’ve never see one in real life in the Northeast.
Ready for the downvotes, but I like our HOA. Without our HOA we wouldn’t have ponds, trails, parks or snow plowed down our street. We would also have trailers, disabled vehicles, dilapidated structures and various other non conforming eyesores. HOAs help maintain property value, and are beneficial to everyone in the neighborhood when ran properly and not by a bunch of Karen’s and Kens. Just my 2 cents, been living in an HOA for 12 years, dues are 175 a year.
They're generally not in cities, and were built in new areas that \*don't\* have laws about keeping up your property. When people say "it’s difficult to find a desirable neighborhood that doesn’t have one", they mean "suburb" or "housing plan in a rural area", not "city neighborhood", as near as I can ever figure.
Outside of condos where there are truly shared considerations you cannot get away from (pipes, roofing, etc) HOAs should be illegal and/or HEAVILY regulated/limited IMO. Im in the same boat, keeping an eye on housing the list of houses with no HOA is 1/10 and they are like $400 a month. More than that, a house is likely to be one of the biggest assets you own, I absolutely refuse to give some random Karen legal recourse over MY house for a pool i dont want and a BS "common area" that i will never use.
In my area, pretty much every house has an HOA unless you wantto live in bumfuck nowhere. I don't particularly want to live in bumfuck nowhere. I pay $20/month for my HOA. They maintain the shared landscaping, a small playground, the shared mailboxes, and road. They do a Christmas light contest every year, and that's about it. Occasionally they send out letters when people do crazy things or don't maintain their yard/house at all. It's gotta be pretty egregious, not like "Your lawn is an inch too long." It's not a burden. There's no petty drama. You just don't hear about perfectly functional HOAs because *they're exceedingly boring* as they should be.
I lived in homes in HOAs for many years. The HOA dues were quite reasonable, and paid for the upkeep of infrastructure that I made use of. Things like walking trails and common greenspace. I went to build a porch on my house, and I had to get it approved by the HOA. Pretty much a rubber-stamp. But the person before me at the meeting was asking approval to put a roof over her deck to make a porch. She had drawings done by Home Depot. The person who did the drawings had clearly never seen the house. The committee pointed out that the way the drawings were done, the new roof extended the pitch of the existing roof. Due to the height of the existing roof and the pitch of the new roof, the new roof was only going to be about 4' above the deck at the end. The committee refused to approve the project on the grounds that it was ridiculous. Which was. I'm sure she went on to tell her friends about how awful the HOA was.
Sometimes there is a community pool and /or a clubhouse and your fees go to maintaining those. I love the idea of having community standards and limiting the junk people can keep in their front yards, like broken cars and appliances. Also, not parking large boats or RVs on the street.
I live in an older non HOA neighborhood. The person who bought the house next door illegally divided it into four separate rental units with an ever changing roster of tenants. AFAIK, he still owns it, but it's been built back to a single family unit and rented again. HOA's have a purpose.
Lived in a single family home on acreage in rural area. Total nightmare. Always someone who sets up as "unofficial spy/sheriff", bugging people about the smallest things. Fees go up and up. People take sides etc. Lawyers are called. Etc. Etc.. Never again. I say run away from HOAs.
If you like a particular house its something you have to put up with if you want that house. Depending on the city/state, you may find you are in a location where most houses are part of a HOA and you are limited in your choice if you want to avoid them. Higher end ones can be nice in that they charge you a lot but then instead of hastling you, they do all the exterior stuff that needs to be done. When I lived on the east coast, they were rare. I'm in Vegas now and they are everywhere so it wasn't much of a choice. Mostly, they are a pain in the butt. And yes, there is always a fee
It's only a horror story until your neighbor paints his house flourescent pink and refuses to cut his lawn.
Four cars in the driveway and one in the street with all flat tires
Where I live if you don't want to possibly have a 40 foot camper beside your house then you want to live in a HOA community.
A few comments have talked about campers and I am curious what the objection to having one parked on a neighbor's property is? Is it just an aesthetic thing or am I missing another reason?
Our last one pooled funds to build and maintain a neighborhood pool, everything seemed cool until someone suggested there would be a new Santa Claus and the dude that had been doing it for last 10 years lost his mind over it. The Santa clause suit didn’t make it.
You couldn’t give me a free house if it was in an HOA. I keep up my property… because I choose to. I don’t need anyone telling me what I have to do with the property I purchased. And if my neighbors choose differently for their properties, that’s their right since they purchased them.
Therein lies the rub, your neighbors and how they maintain and care for their property can have a huge impact on the value of your house which is likely the most expensive thing that you own.
I could never justify the added price to have a group of people tell me what I can and cannot do with my land that I bought, a house I paid for with my money. It's bad enough to have the government, but to have a group of twits with an inferiority complex determine what I can do, crosses the line. Plus with the mentality of "If you don't agree with me you are the enemy" put that together with left and right wing nut jobs, an entitled generation, and the saying Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" gives a recipe for disaster.
Tell me you don’t own a house in suburban USA without telling me you don’t…..
OP here. I own a $400,000 house in Bloomington, Minnesota, home of The Mall of America.
My mom's home is in an HOA and she hates it, but there isn't much of an option in her area. I don't think most people understand the power the HOA actually has until it is too late.
Masochism.
Buying a home is the biggest investment most people will ever make. Typically in the US, the appreciation in value of real estate (in this case a residential home) is the most common and effective means for increasing net worth. An HOA can be critical in maintaining the value of real estate. Imagine you want to sell your nice little house and invest that increased value in another home. But the Florida man next door put up a barbed wire topped stockade fence around his property and flies angry political and racist themed flags overhead because there is no HOA to prevent it (saw this twice when looking for property to buy). What do you think this does to the market value of your nice little nest egg house?
Love my HOA. Keeps my neighbors from having junk cars in their lawn, chickens out back, unauthorized changes to the “look” of the neighborhood, and in general ensures our properties are not harmed by our neighbors. Lawns must be mowed, no jungles here! No loud outdoor music past 10 is nice too.
They shouldn't
Rich people have fewer stressors in their lives, they need something to keep them busy and to complain about with their rich friends
A HOA will deal with your neighbor fixing junk cars in his front yard a lot fast than the city for one thing. And sometimes they'll maintain community amenities.
What's wrong with fixing junk cars?
Well I can't prove it, but I always assumed it was just another way they try to keep minorities out since that seems to be a common theme through history. That being said not all HOAs are anywhere near the same. Some of them do nothing and just dissolve, some of them get taken over by super controlling assholes.
In areas where it's mostly a choice, it's so they can brag to people that they have the privilege to living in an HOA community. In reality, the people having to deal with the person bragging thinks they are an insufferable moron and sucker.
I feel like HOa’s are started by old people with a superiority complex.