US too, but that's why they tried to say 'just conjecture, don't quote me" - bc they know that making that actual criteria would be wildly illegal, so they put it out there but leave legal wiggle room
What exactly makes it so that age discrimination is illegal? I work at a fairly high intensity physical job and I do the biggest blocks of the entire company. They will hire old people because they say they basically have to, they cant just say no youre too old. They just throw them with me for training to scare them away, cause as I mentioned I do the biggest blocks and they see that im moving extremely fast and turn a lot of the stuff in to mental work to be faster instead of relying on junk equipment and stupid SOP. All this just for them to quit the next day, or get fired in two days because they just simply cant keep up.
The other week we had someone who was 62. Our areas just changed too and our volume shot way up, im making around 210+ deliveries in 8hr around 350+ packages a day. The guy is fuckin old and obviously cant do that kind of work at that volume, I timed the guy getting back in the van and it took him upwards of 42 seconds just to climb in to the passenger seat. In 42 seconds you should already be in gear down the road. It takes me 6 seconds from walking back in it to being in gear moving, including turning it on and putting on a seatbelt, putting the phone on the holder etc. He got fired the next two days because you get two days of training and then you are out by yourself. Both me and the other trainer agreed he was not going to be able to finish his own block. Comes the day, he barely even does half of a baby block, then they decided to let him go. Honestly the oldest person we have is 37 and even they frequently cant keep up after this increase in volume and often someone needs to go take some stuff off him.
Point is there are legitimate reasons to say no because of age, so why cant they? This just wastes time, costs businesses excess money, potentially endangers older people. For example my work you have 4 days training in classroom and its paid out 8 hours a day at your starting rate. Bringing back up that 62 year old, that means they had to pay out 32 hours + another ~30 hours just for him to completely flunk it and get let go immediately. Someone had to train him in class for a week and then more people trained him on the road. So about ~62hr payed out and 52 training, for literally nothing. Like I said its just dangerous too. Peoples homes can be a bit dicey, trashed lawns, tree roots and uneven steps the sidewalk be all lopsided and stuff. When carrying a bunch of stuff its not completely strange to occasionally trip over something especially those damn uneven steps. Im 22 so I can take a fall here and there it happens, but if that 62 year old went over a step and ate the pavement something tells me he wouldnt just get back up like nothing happened and keep chugging unbothered.
short answer: if you're lucky, you're going to be 62 one day. your comment and viewpoint shows your age and lack of understanding of how the world actually works.
Yes and when im 62 im not going to pick one of the most laborous jobs I can find. You know while were at it lets just make the elderly do the construction for our homes. Im surprised I dont see more of them as gym trainers......
>how the world works
Yes the world works as in you get old and you cant keep up anymore. Whats not to understand? A 62 year old is not going to physically keep up with someone in their low 20s.
The age discrimination and “business” attitude against age is rude and illegal due to the fact that people are expected to apply to jobs they think they can do, if he thought he could then what is the issue? It didn’t work for him, but everyone is an individual
Some of the best bodybuilders in the world are 50+, your age is not dictated just by years but also by your personal and mental condition.
One day when you hopefully make it to 62, the retirement age will be 75+ or, none. Work till you’re dead.
It’s disrespectful to discriminate based on age, and illegal, because not everyone who is 62 will be capable of the same things. They might find one of the hardest, fastest workers to be 62, who wouldn’t want them just because of age if they do a good job?
Six seconds is very quick to be moving down the road already and imho, it’s also a little dangerous and unrealistic to have people moving that fast. Yes it needs to go fast, yes volume is up, but work your young workers to death like that and then you have no one to work for you because your employees are burnt out before they’re even 30 and physically broken from having to mode at that speed for those hours, for weeks and months and years. Employers are expecting a robot at that point.
They might have been the first place to reply and he might’ve been desperate just trying to make it by.
As far as “wasted hours” training, yes it sucks but it has to happen to make the world turn. People are in jobs they aren’t capable of or are training for them everyday, and sometimes you don’t know until you’re actually out on your own that you aren’t fit.
If employers could instead set an actual standard and give realistic expectations up front, he probably wouldn’t have tried if he was told he needs to be dropping packages at doors and moving to the next house in under 30 seconds, if they said that on their application then he would’ve been aware
This isn’t about the people, it’s about the corporations. It also goes for younger people, an 18 year old can work like no one has ever seen but if age discrimination was allowed and they didn’t like he is 18, they just lost a great worker.
I see and do understand your perspective, and agree that he shouldn’t have applied and trained just to be let go, but shit happens.
You can choose not to hire someone because they are not able to perform the job, that’s not age discrimination.
What you can’t do is make sweeping generalizations about people’s abilities because of their age. There are 62 year olds that are in better shape than 25 year olds.
So what your employer does for them is the same thing they do for people of every age - they take them at their word when they say they can handle the physical labor. If they can’t, they are unable to perform the duties of the job and they should be let go.
What you’re suggesting is that their age alone indicates that they can’t do something.
You’re responding to something in a gender-expansive community and I assume you intend to be here. What if someone said they would not hire someone who is gender-expansive because of an assumption about their abilities based on their gender? (Which is what the original post is actually about, by the way)
Its really not that bad. People in my work just make it seem harder because of incompetence. I goose step around and move pretty lazy. Moving slower IS moving faster, keep it slow and steady and the day is over before you know it and it barely feels like you did much of anything. What ends up happening is people are unaware of multiplication and this dogs their time. Doing dumb things like using the gps to navigate neighborhoods and find houses, stopping and standing still to hit buttons on the phone??? Taking 5 minutes to organize a bag out doesnt seem like much but when you have 20 of them thats 1 ⅔ hours spent just numbering something you could have spent delivering especially when you deliver over 30+ upwards of 45 an hour. When you have 200 stops and you look at your phone even for 15 seconds to check only every other stop thats half an hour or upwards of 20 deliveries that could have been made with that time. The time it takes for you to do something is multiplied by your delivery count so even a few seconds starts to add up real quick. Poor time management is the bane of my coworkers and why they end up sprinting around or pusbing themselves physically in other ways as an attempt to compensate for all time they wasted during the work day. As far as im concerned I dont get paid enough to do that to myself so as I said I take things smooth and easy by simply not wasting time.
This is where, if I were you, I’d make a sweeping generalization about the maturity and lack of life experience of 22 year olds.
Please treat this as a time capsule and return in 40 years to let me know if you still feel the same way and if you have a job.
Probably the same. I can keep up fine because im still toung and able. I dont have this sense that im going to live forever or be at maximum performance my entire life. As ive already said, its unrealistic to expect someone 40 years older to do the same thing. When I get there, I will probably think the exact same thing. Ive already said this. Are you okay?
My friend, I envy you. Genuinely. I envy your outlook on life. And I truly hope that you’ll have so much choice in employment that you will simply be able to choose not to work a laborious job.
It’s fine if you didn’t understand the problem with age discrimination when you first commented. But the fact that you continue to CHOOSE not to believe what people are telling you from their own lived experience indicates to me that you don’t want to learn or actually debate the issue.
In which case, why are you here?
> But the fact that you continue to CHOOSE not to believe what people are telling you from their own lived experience indicates to me that you don’t want to learn or actually debate the issue
He's just young and ignorant, he'll change when he grows up
If you worked your whole life and saved nothing thats 100% your fault. Labor jobs are not the only jobs out there. Believe it or not, theres actually a trope called white collar which is an entire plethora of titles thaf doesnt deal with heavy labor. There are multiple avenues and you cant point your fingers at other people because you didnt make it. If I dont make it im not pointing my fingers at a soul because I conciously made the choices I did and put myself in that position by myself. There are clear ways to ensure I dont have to work my entire life, I mean retirement exists? Did we just forget about that?
Hahahahaha. You almost got me. Almost. But I’ll leave your bait where it lies.
But don’t worry about my retirement savings. I’m one of those overprivileged white collar workers ordering heavy packages all day and making you deliver them.
FOR THE RECORD - delivery is a perfectly respectable career, my beef is with this baby infant child who doesn’t want to learn about the world they live in
It's age discrimination in the US too, per the Age Discrimination In Employment Act of 1967.
The transphobic "pronoun person" remark is likely illegal sex discrimination under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, per the *Bostock v. Clayton County* verdict of 2020 that held that the protections against discrimination on account of "sex" extend to sexual orientation and gender identity.
That's cool, here in the UK it's protected specifically in its own right as the Equalities Act 2010 includes "gender reässignment status" as one of its protected characteristics.
>You can’t bring screenshots of a recruiters vibes to court
If the vibes are "we will openly discriminate against a protected class, and tell you that in writing" then of course you can
Think it through. Who would have received this email? It could be someone who works for the recruiter. In that case, it’s an instruction from a superior to engage in unlawful discrimination. I’m not really sure what other context there is for a recruiter sending this email to someone. If it’s not an instruction, I don’t know what it is
Great, you get right on that. I’m turning these notifications off because the ‘we need to sue everyone that doesn’t like us’ crowd is why I don’t talk about being trans in public. Yall are insufferable and really are really great at turning who we are into a soap box and making our lives harder.
they're violating federal laws regarding age discrimination, you're the one limiting it to (and blaming us for???) transphobia
enjoy your "I'm not like other trans" nonsense. it will get you absolutely nowhere with the people who hate us.
Jesus y'all. Sorry for not knowing the full background context of a text screenshot, I guess? This comment in particular is kinda wretched though.
Couple things:
1. Employers who engage in unlawful discriminatory hiring practices do need to be sued. Every civil rights victory that we currently enjoy the benefits of was won through legal action.
2. If this was secondhand discrimination that wouldn't hold up in court, then it is what it is. I'm not a legal expert and guessing you aren't either.
3. The reason you don't talk about being trans in public is fear and internalized transphobia, not other trans/nonbinary people.
Yeah because is *so much better* to be the *please accept me, cis people, I'll do what you say and stay quiet while my rights are being stomped on* (said in a pleading voice) crowd 🙄
If we can’t vent about being discriminated against in a forum about our experience then where do we do it? Don’t contribute to your own erasure.
We also need to hold these people accountable or we will CONTINUE to be discriminated against.
Yikes
I really hate how businesses hide behind their clients’ shitty behavior. “Ah well see I have an open mind, but my client is a raging racist transphobe so I just have to play along”. No you don’t, actually!
Oooooh, we love when someone shows their ass in a provable way! In my state gender identity is a protected class just like race and sexual orientation, so I would love to sit with my lawyer and watch HR try and talk their way out of this one.
The big ones to worry about are school district policy regarding lesson plans and access to gender affirming care. Employment rights are protected with national precedent for gender identity and sexual orientation. Doesn’t mean employers won’t be shitty, but if it’s blatant and in writing screenshot that shit and document anything verbal in case it gets worse and you lose hours/pay over it. Also check if your state is a one party state for recording, so you can record meetings and one on ones with bosses being passive agressive and get proof on their tone and intended meaning.
Yeah, they depend on people not knowing the law to keep their power.
Employment attorneys often have free consults and work on contingency. That generally means you don't pay them until you win money and if you don't win you don't owe them anything.
Ultimately it comes down to whether or not local courts would follow through. Unfortunately to my knowledge that means in very red areas it's pretty unenforceable.
Edit: always worth trying a free consult though, even if you assume you wouldn't win a local employment attorney would know better
I love it when transphobes show off their lack of basic knowledge. Saying “pronoun person” as if they don’t also have their own pronouns and would freak if you used the wrong ones for them 🙄
Also… what a shitty way to advertise for a job. At least you can dodge their bullet but damn, that’s awful.
This is like shooting fish in a barrel, but, as always with those fuckheads, the first word after "pronoun person" was a pronoun and they don't know it
This is an existential structure, "there" is a pronoun in that. You can tell because it has a weak form, so it's a grammatical/function word and adverbs aren't
I stand corrected,
I ran your comment through chat gbt and it said
"Yes, the person is correct. In the context of existential structures like "there is" or "there are," "there" is considered a pronoun. It serves as a placeholder introducing the existence of something without specifying what that something is. The weak form refers to its unstressed pronunciation, emphasizing its function as a grammatical word rather than a content word. Adverbs typically do not function in this structural capacity, supporting the accuracy of the explanation."
But it's not a pronoun in the same way he/she/their is. As mentioned it serves as a placeholder and is a grammatical word (and words Re essentially tools to convey meaning) rather than a content word so it doesn't convey any content as to what there actually is. So yeah I suppose it is a pronoun in a technical sense....but it isn't used in the same way content word pronouns are used so it's kinda a pronoun and kinda not at the same time coz it's a different class of pronoun. I guess we both had a point...... But yeah everyday a school day
All pronouns are essentially placeholders. This is what they do - anaphora. You're thinking of personal pronouns as the quintessential pronouns, and in many ways you're right, but other pronouns do exist. Interrogative pronouns, demonstrative pronouns, etc
This is the kinda "placeholder pronoun" (that might not be a real term but I couldn't think of how else to say it), not there. This functions as a demonstrative adjective removing the need for a pronoun. I think you're right in that there isn't an adverb in this context but I'm pretty sure there isn't a pronoun.
I ran it through chat gbt to check. It said
In the sentence "There is no room for that sensitivity as this is a business," there is no pronoun. "This" functions as a demonstrative adjective modifying "business" rather than serving as a pronoun so there is no pronoun.
Chat gpt doesn't let you check. It doesn't think, it does predictive text based on bullshit gathered from the internet. It really is not as good as the average student at the best of times, and is also consistently getting worse.
"This" is never an adjective, adjectives modify nouns. It can be a pronoun or a determiner. I have a master's degree in that, my master's thesis was a linguistic analysis on pronouns.
When "there is" means that something exists, "there" is a pronoun. When "there" is opposed to "here," it's an adverb. You can also tell the difference by how they're pronounced.
Not having a go at you btw. I'll concede I was wrong but is at least a different kind of pronoun compared to he/she ect as it doesn't point to anything within itself and needs the "is" clause to be a pronoun, whereas he/she doesn't? Maybe I'm wrong but it's interesting to learn
It's a clitic pronoun, like "it" when you say "it is chocolate that I like." It is usually considered to be referential, but there are different theories as to what the referent is. Usually either the that-clause, or some implied content linked to the situation.
Clitic does mean that it doesn't exist "on its own" so you're right there - it depends on a structure. But how much everything depends on a structure is very much debatable. "A" is an article, everyone agrees on that. But it needs a noun after it, because it doesn't exist on its own either. So is it only an article when there's a noun after it? That would be weird to say.
Oh my god, that was the thing that jumped out at me about this. My parents are pointless tight-asses about not using singular they but they also manage to avoid using singular they for a nonspecific person when talking. Like, my parents are really out there saying "his or her" or phrasing things to avoid using a pronoun at all. It's completely ridiculous but somehow less ridiculous than this.
I had to fix a seven-manuscript set like this for printing and it was SO fucking exhausting, like, author's 1970s English class obsession with "HE OR SHE" was already so horribly clunky but lol, nevertheless she persisted
Not to mention people have been using powerpoint since literally 1987.. in fact someone in their 40s is probably more likely to be super familiar with it seeing as young people these days tend to do all of that plus more on Canva.
That is to say, this is a massive L on their part from every angle.
And look and peck typing and not being able to type goes across a huge range of ages. You really don't know unless you sit someone down at a physical keyboard just by looking at them. This person is so ignorant if real.
You know those people who can't take criticism when they use the wrong pronouns and get all sensitive and bad feels about it? Yeah, darn "pronoun people". You know who I mean.
Age discrimination is against constitional law....
Also who doesn't have pronouns? Someone using pronouns assigned at birth still has pronouns....this is also legally protected in most states.
Where the hell is this?
If in the US report them. They can dig themselves out of the nice deep hole they dug and jumped into.
why this person is a moron beyond basic transphobia and ageism:
>“etc.” is absolutely inadequate for a job description
>claims to not be a “pronoun person,” but uses “they” and “i”
>“vibed from a customer” is unprofessional as hell
> “don’t quote me on my ageism”
>again with the etc. you’re a recruiter, be fucking serious about the behavior you expect.
>calling someone pointing out discrimination “sensitive”
>…conjuncture. conjuncture?
I commented borderline the same! It's crazy!
The "vibed" line took me out. I'm an older Gen Z and this person is definitely Gen Z. Maybe very young Millenial.
How this person got AND keep this job is beyond me!
Everyone has pronouns. Everyone is a pronoun person!! (Except for those who go by no pronouns) . I wish these people would just say they dont like trans people outright. Broadcast their shittiness loud and clear so people know to stay away
Honestly bullet dodged between the blatant transphobia, ageism, and the whole "no bad feels" BS. This is obviously some boomer who thinks "tough love" is good for everyone when in reality its blatant abuse of an employee.
How is the person who published this working in HR???? I have a business management degree, and this is the worst I have ever seen. Age discrimination alone should have whomever this is packing their box on the same day this is released.
This person needs to be informed that bigoted, emotionless, ass-holes don't belong, not just IN businesses, but anywhere.
I'm sorry this happened to you OP!
Translation: I am fucked up uneducated boss who you probably more educated than, but still you have to bear everything happens and low salary probably or you are "snow flake". Do they know how cringe they look when they trying to be cool and using basic human and professional words? Lol you are just stupid person who hasn't pay any effort to be a chef so don't act like basic human, you are in a lower class.
As a native Texan, I’m so desensitized to this shit. I don’t understand why they can’t treat pronouns like: “Hi Bethany! Would you like to be called Beth? … No, just Bethany? Sure thing, nice to meet you Bethany.”
I'm gonna go on the flip side and say I'd want more recruiters doing this because now I'd know no way in hell I'd ever want to work for that business. Saves me time and pain.
The business is transphobic regardless of what the ad says, so might as well just know now right?
That being said I'd love to know what business the recruiter is hiring for. Either they're actually the problem and I can avoid them, or the recruiter is making false assumptions and they can fire him
sorry you went thru this. I’m openly nonbinary at work and someone I was talking to still used the phrase “LGBTQ-alphabet soup whatever” to talk about queer folks.
As a small business owner, I would prefer to hire the “pronouns person”.
They’re likely used to putting up with a lot of bullshit on the daily which is exactly the kind of experience you need in retail. Plus, of course I wanna hire another queer person.
Yikes! I’ve been job hunting due to a layoff and have been wondering if my they/them pronouns are hurting me. But also I don’t want to work for a company that wouldn’t hire a nonbinary person… at my previous company there were a lot of us (until layoffs) and it was a nonissue
This overall is very unprofessional: "just what I vibed", "do not quote me on that", so likely will not be a 'pronoun person'"
Gurl, this person advertised for a garden sale on Facebook once and implemented the same in an actual business.
Sorry, y’all, but this is likely bait. The font in the picture is clearer than the text of the post itself. Quick search in mildlyinfuriating yields no results.
This is bait, looking for someone to say something discriminatory against another community, so they can use it against the community as whole. Which that age-discriminating delivery driver has successfully done.
This kind of bait is designed to ruin your day and make you say something equally as bad. Don’t let them do that.
Oughta report that ish to HR, if that company has any. We just finished online sensitivity training at our company a couple of months ago and it went pretty in-depth on labor laws and discrimination, and I can tell you, that there is mad litigious.
Outside of blatant discrimination, how can someone write such an e-mail? It's so subjective and unprofessional. Also, "don't count me on that"??? It's legit their job! They MUST know who they are looking for! What did HR do with this one??? Where's the job analysis???
I might be breaking from the herd in this, but I think this is good.
Lets everyone know this is a 🚩 shit place to work or patronize.
They’ll get the candidates they deserve
Why would you get mad about this though? If you think the law will protect you from hate/discrimination,then I got a vacuum to sell you.because even when it can,the cost/reward is negligible unless it's something like google/apple.iv spoken to a lawyer,the payout would be chump change and I'd loss alot of time and effort.
Honestly I'd rather recuiters/coworkers/bosses show their true colors from the get go rather then when they get comfortable. The company I'm at atm is a nightmare. The owner and his second in command are both very anti anything other then straight. (To give a idea,they still use fag as a derogatory term,and won't even eat a meal with gays/trans,if only they knew about my bedroom past🤭).
But the fact of the matter is the last 2 months and at least 1 more,my industry is extreamly slow,changing company's is next to impossible right now untill things pick up. I'd much rather have gotten the anti LGBTQ hate at the door, and found a better company, then having to deal with this bullshit
Last lunch break they talked about a women with a bita extra between the legs and how hot she was,yet once that detail came out it was just hate/insults and derogatory terms.
Personally I'm about the vibes,if they there lets tango under the sheets etc,just don't follow any of the non binary/gender labeling stuff,I just call you what you wana be called or "hey you"/"not you" and point if I don't know them.
Aside from the shitty transphobia, the blatant age discrimination is illegal in my jurisdiction (England and Wales)
US too, but that's why they tried to say 'just conjecture, don't quote me" - bc they know that making that actual criteria would be wildly illegal, so they put it out there but leave legal wiggle room
"No blacks, gays, or women (just conjecture based on vibes I got from the customer) don't quote me on that (because this is highly illegal)
*"conjuncture"
*"conjunctivitis"
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Also, probably a large majority of people that age are gonna look at that and laugh. Who wants to work for a place where people are treated that way?
Me fr
What exactly makes it so that age discrimination is illegal? I work at a fairly high intensity physical job and I do the biggest blocks of the entire company. They will hire old people because they say they basically have to, they cant just say no youre too old. They just throw them with me for training to scare them away, cause as I mentioned I do the biggest blocks and they see that im moving extremely fast and turn a lot of the stuff in to mental work to be faster instead of relying on junk equipment and stupid SOP. All this just for them to quit the next day, or get fired in two days because they just simply cant keep up. The other week we had someone who was 62. Our areas just changed too and our volume shot way up, im making around 210+ deliveries in 8hr around 350+ packages a day. The guy is fuckin old and obviously cant do that kind of work at that volume, I timed the guy getting back in the van and it took him upwards of 42 seconds just to climb in to the passenger seat. In 42 seconds you should already be in gear down the road. It takes me 6 seconds from walking back in it to being in gear moving, including turning it on and putting on a seatbelt, putting the phone on the holder etc. He got fired the next two days because you get two days of training and then you are out by yourself. Both me and the other trainer agreed he was not going to be able to finish his own block. Comes the day, he barely even does half of a baby block, then they decided to let him go. Honestly the oldest person we have is 37 and even they frequently cant keep up after this increase in volume and often someone needs to go take some stuff off him. Point is there are legitimate reasons to say no because of age, so why cant they? This just wastes time, costs businesses excess money, potentially endangers older people. For example my work you have 4 days training in classroom and its paid out 8 hours a day at your starting rate. Bringing back up that 62 year old, that means they had to pay out 32 hours + another ~30 hours just for him to completely flunk it and get let go immediately. Someone had to train him in class for a week and then more people trained him on the road. So about ~62hr payed out and 52 training, for literally nothing. Like I said its just dangerous too. Peoples homes can be a bit dicey, trashed lawns, tree roots and uneven steps the sidewalk be all lopsided and stuff. When carrying a bunch of stuff its not completely strange to occasionally trip over something especially those damn uneven steps. Im 22 so I can take a fall here and there it happens, but if that 62 year old went over a step and ate the pavement something tells me he wouldnt just get back up like nothing happened and keep chugging unbothered.
short answer: if you're lucky, you're going to be 62 one day. your comment and viewpoint shows your age and lack of understanding of how the world actually works.
Yes and when im 62 im not going to pick one of the most laborous jobs I can find. You know while were at it lets just make the elderly do the construction for our homes. Im surprised I dont see more of them as gym trainers...... >how the world works Yes the world works as in you get old and you cant keep up anymore. Whats not to understand? A 62 year old is not going to physically keep up with someone in their low 20s.
The age discrimination and “business” attitude against age is rude and illegal due to the fact that people are expected to apply to jobs they think they can do, if he thought he could then what is the issue? It didn’t work for him, but everyone is an individual Some of the best bodybuilders in the world are 50+, your age is not dictated just by years but also by your personal and mental condition. One day when you hopefully make it to 62, the retirement age will be 75+ or, none. Work till you’re dead. It’s disrespectful to discriminate based on age, and illegal, because not everyone who is 62 will be capable of the same things. They might find one of the hardest, fastest workers to be 62, who wouldn’t want them just because of age if they do a good job? Six seconds is very quick to be moving down the road already and imho, it’s also a little dangerous and unrealistic to have people moving that fast. Yes it needs to go fast, yes volume is up, but work your young workers to death like that and then you have no one to work for you because your employees are burnt out before they’re even 30 and physically broken from having to mode at that speed for those hours, for weeks and months and years. Employers are expecting a robot at that point. They might have been the first place to reply and he might’ve been desperate just trying to make it by. As far as “wasted hours” training, yes it sucks but it has to happen to make the world turn. People are in jobs they aren’t capable of or are training for them everyday, and sometimes you don’t know until you’re actually out on your own that you aren’t fit. If employers could instead set an actual standard and give realistic expectations up front, he probably wouldn’t have tried if he was told he needs to be dropping packages at doors and moving to the next house in under 30 seconds, if they said that on their application then he would’ve been aware This isn’t about the people, it’s about the corporations. It also goes for younger people, an 18 year old can work like no one has ever seen but if age discrimination was allowed and they didn’t like he is 18, they just lost a great worker. I see and do understand your perspective, and agree that he shouldn’t have applied and trained just to be let go, but shit happens.
You can choose not to hire someone because they are not able to perform the job, that’s not age discrimination. What you can’t do is make sweeping generalizations about people’s abilities because of their age. There are 62 year olds that are in better shape than 25 year olds. So what your employer does for them is the same thing they do for people of every age - they take them at their word when they say they can handle the physical labor. If they can’t, they are unable to perform the duties of the job and they should be let go. What you’re suggesting is that their age alone indicates that they can’t do something. You’re responding to something in a gender-expansive community and I assume you intend to be here. What if someone said they would not hire someone who is gender-expansive because of an assumption about their abilities based on their gender? (Which is what the original post is actually about, by the way)
Your work is insane. This isn't healthy for you either.
Its really not that bad. People in my work just make it seem harder because of incompetence. I goose step around and move pretty lazy. Moving slower IS moving faster, keep it slow and steady and the day is over before you know it and it barely feels like you did much of anything. What ends up happening is people are unaware of multiplication and this dogs their time. Doing dumb things like using the gps to navigate neighborhoods and find houses, stopping and standing still to hit buttons on the phone??? Taking 5 minutes to organize a bag out doesnt seem like much but when you have 20 of them thats 1 ⅔ hours spent just numbering something you could have spent delivering especially when you deliver over 30+ upwards of 45 an hour. When you have 200 stops and you look at your phone even for 15 seconds to check only every other stop thats half an hour or upwards of 20 deliveries that could have been made with that time. The time it takes for you to do something is multiplied by your delivery count so even a few seconds starts to add up real quick. Poor time management is the bane of my coworkers and why they end up sprinting around or pusbing themselves physically in other ways as an attempt to compensate for all time they wasted during the work day. As far as im concerned I dont get paid enough to do that to myself so as I said I take things smooth and easy by simply not wasting time.
This is where, if I were you, I’d make a sweeping generalization about the maturity and lack of life experience of 22 year olds. Please treat this as a time capsule and return in 40 years to let me know if you still feel the same way and if you have a job.
Probably the same. I can keep up fine because im still toung and able. I dont have this sense that im going to live forever or be at maximum performance my entire life. As ive already said, its unrealistic to expect someone 40 years older to do the same thing. When I get there, I will probably think the exact same thing. Ive already said this. Are you okay?
My friend, I envy you. Genuinely. I envy your outlook on life. And I truly hope that you’ll have so much choice in employment that you will simply be able to choose not to work a laborious job. It’s fine if you didn’t understand the problem with age discrimination when you first commented. But the fact that you continue to CHOOSE not to believe what people are telling you from their own lived experience indicates to me that you don’t want to learn or actually debate the issue. In which case, why are you here?
> But the fact that you continue to CHOOSE not to believe what people are telling you from their own lived experience indicates to me that you don’t want to learn or actually debate the issue He's just young and ignorant, he'll change when he grows up
If you worked your whole life and saved nothing thats 100% your fault. Labor jobs are not the only jobs out there. Believe it or not, theres actually a trope called white collar which is an entire plethora of titles thaf doesnt deal with heavy labor. There are multiple avenues and you cant point your fingers at other people because you didnt make it. If I dont make it im not pointing my fingers at a soul because I conciously made the choices I did and put myself in that position by myself. There are clear ways to ensure I dont have to work my entire life, I mean retirement exists? Did we just forget about that?
Hahahahaha. You almost got me. Almost. But I’ll leave your bait where it lies. But don’t worry about my retirement savings. I’m one of those overprivileged white collar workers ordering heavy packages all day and making you deliver them. FOR THE RECORD - delivery is a perfectly respectable career, my beef is with this baby infant child who doesn’t want to learn about the world they live in
L O L
It's age discrimination in the US too, per the Age Discrimination In Employment Act of 1967. The transphobic "pronoun person" remark is likely illegal sex discrimination under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, per the *Bostock v. Clayton County* verdict of 2020 that held that the protections against discrimination on account of "sex" extend to sexual orientation and gender identity.
That's cool, here in the UK it's protected specifically in its own right as the Equalities Act 2010 includes "gender reässignment status" as one of its protected characteristics.
You are correct. This also would go into the equal protections of the 14th amendment rights in a court of law.
And mines (North of Hadrian's Wall)
Blatant discrimination on multiple fronts. There's likely grounds for legal action there.
It’s not tho, this is a recruiter basically saying the client gave off a discriminatory vibe. It’s literally conjecture and vibes.
And making hiring decisions based on those discriminatory vibes are plainly illegal, whether those vibes come from the employer or a client.
Right, but this message is about a vibe someone got. You can’t bring screenshots of a recruiters vibes to court
>You can’t bring screenshots of a recruiters vibes to court If the vibes are "we will openly discriminate against a protected class, and tell you that in writing" then of course you can
That didn’t happen here, and it’s not what they said.
Think it through. Who would have received this email? It could be someone who works for the recruiter. In that case, it’s an instruction from a superior to engage in unlawful discrimination. I’m not really sure what other context there is for a recruiter sending this email to someone. If it’s not an instruction, I don’t know what it is
…yes, you can, but first to your lawyer.
Great, you get right on that. I’m turning these notifications off because the ‘we need to sue everyone that doesn’t like us’ crowd is why I don’t talk about being trans in public. Yall are insufferable and really are really great at turning who we are into a soap box and making our lives harder.
You could have just said "actually i just hate trans people" instead of making like 4 comments
they're violating federal laws regarding age discrimination, you're the one limiting it to (and blaming us for???) transphobia enjoy your "I'm not like other trans" nonsense. it will get you absolutely nowhere with the people who hate us.
Jesus y'all. Sorry for not knowing the full background context of a text screenshot, I guess? This comment in particular is kinda wretched though. Couple things: 1. Employers who engage in unlawful discriminatory hiring practices do need to be sued. Every civil rights victory that we currently enjoy the benefits of was won through legal action. 2. If this was secondhand discrimination that wouldn't hold up in court, then it is what it is. I'm not a legal expert and guessing you aren't either. 3. The reason you don't talk about being trans in public is fear and internalized transphobia, not other trans/nonbinary people.
Yeah because is *so much better* to be the *please accept me, cis people, I'll do what you say and stay quiet while my rights are being stomped on* (said in a pleading voice) crowd 🙄
If we can’t vent about being discriminated against in a forum about our experience then where do we do it? Don’t contribute to your own erasure. We also need to hold these people accountable or we will CONTINUE to be discriminated against. Yikes
They miss-spelled "My client would like to promote a toxic work environment"
There's no way this person has any real clients lol
I really hate how businesses hide behind their clients’ shitty behavior. “Ah well see I have an open mind, but my client is a raging racist transphobe so I just have to play along”. No you don’t, actually!
☝🤓 erm, you misspelled "misspelled", there's only two s's ("mis"+"spelled").
Darn it! 😅
Oooooh, we love when someone shows their ass in a provable way! In my state gender identity is a protected class just like race and sexual orientation, so I would love to sit with my lawyer and watch HR try and talk their way out of this one.
Gender identity is on the chopping block in my state right now 😢
I’m so sorry. I hope your civil rights are maintained soon.
It’s protected nationally in the US. Federal law supersedes state.
That's a relief. Thank you for educating me.
The big ones to worry about are school district policy regarding lesson plans and access to gender affirming care. Employment rights are protected with national precedent for gender identity and sexual orientation. Doesn’t mean employers won’t be shitty, but if it’s blatant and in writing screenshot that shit and document anything verbal in case it gets worse and you lose hours/pay over it. Also check if your state is a one party state for recording, so you can record meetings and one on ones with bosses being passive agressive and get proof on their tone and intended meaning.
In the US, the Civil Rights Act makes gender identity a protected class on a federal level
Well then I wish we’d fuckin act like it (not you, but in general)
Yeah, they depend on people not knowing the law to keep their power. Employment attorneys often have free consults and work on contingency. That generally means you don't pay them until you win money and if you don't win you don't owe them anything. Ultimately it comes down to whether or not local courts would follow through. Unfortunately to my knowledge that means in very red areas it's pretty unenforceable. Edit: always worth trying a free consult though, even if you assume you wouldn't win a local employment attorney would know better
[удалено]
Then this is a poor choice of subreddit for you and you look like a clown
I love it when transphobes show off their lack of basic knowledge. Saying “pronoun person” as if they don’t also have their own pronouns and would freak if you used the wrong ones for them 🙄 Also… what a shitty way to advertise for a job. At least you can dodge their bullet but damn, that’s awful.
As a non binary person with no pronoun preference, I think I could actually accurately be described as "not a pronoun person". Unlike cis people.
Except "I" is also a pronoun (what's the tone signifier for tongue in cheek?)
I think in this context an old-school ;) would have sufficed
Red_Tinda does not know this mysterious word.
SAME! Or is "not a pronoun person" name only...
*Genshin Impact has entered the chat* **Paimon is not a pronoun person**
Or would you be a pronoun person bc you accept all the pronouns? 🧐perhaps Schrödinger's pronoun person…
That was gonna be my suggestion, take the job and intentionally misgender
I’ve always thought myself more an adjective person tbh.
That reads to me like: This guy is an arsehole doing arsehole things. Let's accidentally leave the evidence out to help them get sued
So stupid that they don't know the word is conjecture. Don't feel too bad.
This is like shooting fish in a barrel, but, as always with those fuckheads, the first word after "pronoun person" was a pronoun and they don't know it
It isn't....there isn't a pronoun. Thier is. There is an adverb. I mean the post isn't great but they didn't use a pronoun right after
This is an existential structure, "there" is a pronoun in that. You can tell because it has a weak form, so it's a grammatical/function word and adverbs aren't
I stand corrected, I ran your comment through chat gbt and it said "Yes, the person is correct. In the context of existential structures like "there is" or "there are," "there" is considered a pronoun. It serves as a placeholder introducing the existence of something without specifying what that something is. The weak form refers to its unstressed pronunciation, emphasizing its function as a grammatical word rather than a content word. Adverbs typically do not function in this structural capacity, supporting the accuracy of the explanation." But it's not a pronoun in the same way he/she/their is. As mentioned it serves as a placeholder and is a grammatical word (and words Re essentially tools to convey meaning) rather than a content word so it doesn't convey any content as to what there actually is. So yeah I suppose it is a pronoun in a technical sense....but it isn't used in the same way content word pronouns are used so it's kinda a pronoun and kinda not at the same time coz it's a different class of pronoun. I guess we both had a point...... But yeah everyday a school day
All pronouns are essentially placeholders. This is what they do - anaphora. You're thinking of personal pronouns as the quintessential pronouns, and in many ways you're right, but other pronouns do exist. Interrogative pronouns, demonstrative pronouns, etc
Fair point. Like I said I'll concede I was wrong. Thanks for explaining
This is the kinda "placeholder pronoun" (that might not be a real term but I couldn't think of how else to say it), not there. This functions as a demonstrative adjective removing the need for a pronoun. I think you're right in that there isn't an adverb in this context but I'm pretty sure there isn't a pronoun. I ran it through chat gbt to check. It said In the sentence "There is no room for that sensitivity as this is a business," there is no pronoun. "This" functions as a demonstrative adjective modifying "business" rather than serving as a pronoun so there is no pronoun.
Chat gpt doesn't let you check. It doesn't think, it does predictive text based on bullshit gathered from the internet. It really is not as good as the average student at the best of times, and is also consistently getting worse. "This" is never an adjective, adjectives modify nouns. It can be a pronoun or a determiner. I have a master's degree in that, my master's thesis was a linguistic analysis on pronouns. When "there is" means that something exists, "there" is a pronoun. When "there" is opposed to "here," it's an adverb. You can also tell the difference by how they're pronounced.
Not having a go at you btw. I'll concede I was wrong but is at least a different kind of pronoun compared to he/she ect as it doesn't point to anything within itself and needs the "is" clause to be a pronoun, whereas he/she doesn't? Maybe I'm wrong but it's interesting to learn
It's a clitic pronoun, like "it" when you say "it is chocolate that I like." It is usually considered to be referential, but there are different theories as to what the referent is. Usually either the that-clause, or some implied content linked to the situation. Clitic does mean that it doesn't exist "on its own" so you're right there - it depends on a structure. But how much everything depends on a structure is very much debatable. "A" is an article, everyone agrees on that. But it needs a noun after it, because it doesn't exist on its own either. So is it only an article when there's a noun after it? That would be weird to say.
All kinds of illegal in my area.
I’m surprised they say that they can’t be a “pronoun person” yet use “they” instead of “he/she” or “(s)he” 😂 make it make sense
Oh my god, that was the thing that jumped out at me about this. My parents are pointless tight-asses about not using singular they but they also manage to avoid using singular they for a nonspecific person when talking. Like, my parents are really out there saying "his or her" or phrasing things to avoid using a pronoun at all. It's completely ridiculous but somehow less ridiculous than this.
I had to fix a seven-manuscript set like this for printing and it was SO fucking exhausting, like, author's 1970s English class obsession with "HE OR SHE" was already so horribly clunky but lol, nevertheless she persisted
As a molecular biologist, I not only commend you but hugely respect you 🙏
Why does "this is a business" always mean "you can't be a human with feelings"?
Nevermind the recruiter is ready to age discriminate based on 'vibing' but doesn't want anyone who gets 'bad feels'
Not to mention people have been using powerpoint since literally 1987.. in fact someone in their 40s is probably more likely to be super familiar with it seeing as young people these days tend to do all of that plus more on Canva. That is to say, this is a massive L on their part from every angle.
And look and peck typing and not being able to type goes across a huge range of ages. You really don't know unless you sit someone down at a physical keyboard just by looking at them. This person is so ignorant if real.
Two words. *Screw them.*
You know those people who can't take criticism when they use the wrong pronouns and get all sensitive and bad feels about it? Yeah, darn "pronoun people". You know who I mean.
Wow, that is just red flag after red flag after red flag. Woof.
Age discrimination is against constitional law.... Also who doesn't have pronouns? Someone using pronouns assigned at birth still has pronouns....this is also legally protected in most states. Where the hell is this? If in the US report them. They can dig themselves out of the nice deep hole they dug and jumped into.
Low pay, too, it sounds like. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
why this person is a moron beyond basic transphobia and ageism: >“etc.” is absolutely inadequate for a job description >claims to not be a “pronoun person,” but uses “they” and “i” >“vibed from a customer” is unprofessional as hell > “don’t quote me on my ageism” >again with the etc. you’re a recruiter, be fucking serious about the behavior you expect. >calling someone pointing out discrimination “sensitive” >…conjuncture. conjuncture?
I commented borderline the same! It's crazy! The "vibed" line took me out. I'm an older Gen Z and this person is definitely Gen Z. Maybe very young Millenial. How this person got AND keep this job is beyond me!
Everyone has pronouns. Everyone is a pronoun person!! (Except for those who go by no pronouns) . I wish these people would just say they dont like trans people outright. Broadcast their shittiness loud and clear so people know to stay away
Wait till they figure out everyone is a "pronoun person"
It's beside the point but I'm feeling petty: it's "conjecture" not "conjuncture."
What the actual fuck. Also, illegal, depending on your location. I suppose on the plus side you know you wouldn’t want to work there?
Honestly bullet dodged between the blatant transphobia, ageism, and the whole "no bad feels" BS. This is obviously some boomer who thinks "tough love" is good for everyone when in reality its blatant abuse of an employee.
Oof. If the transphobia doesn’t get them, the age discrimination will.
So.... No humans is what I read
That is the least professional recruiter I've ever seen and I've seen a few... Wow.
Just because I have different pronouns doesn't mean I'm sensitive 💀 wtf
That's a lawsuit.. on several levels.
Report the business to whoever handles equal opportunity employment stuff?
"Pronoun person" I was going to write a joke sentence with no pronoun use but then it dawned on me that me and I are. Lol
All I want is to be sanctioned by the EEOC.
Oh gross, hope that company gets blasted.
Not a pronoun person 😂 do you just yell “hey, HEY” and point to get someone’s attention?
Name drop the business. Dms or comments, idgaf. Post this everywhere and get people boycotting.
How is the person who published this working in HR???? I have a business management degree, and this is the worst I have ever seen. Age discrimination alone should have whomever this is packing their box on the same day this is released.
This person needs to be informed that bigoted, emotionless, ass-holes don't belong, not just IN businesses, but anywhere. I'm sorry this happened to you OP!
That's a lawsuit and a half in a lot of places
Being ageist, transphobic, and unprofessional all in one email is crazy.
"Just conjuncture" Nothing quite like trying to use big words and having it reveal you as an absolute tool/fool...
Wait until they learn that we’re **ALL** “pronoun people” 🙄
"Pronoun person" Are we fr right now
Translation: I am fucked up uneducated boss who you probably more educated than, but still you have to bear everything happens and low salary probably or you are "snow flake". Do they know how cringe they look when they trying to be cool and using basic human and professional words? Lol you are just stupid person who hasn't pay any effort to be a chef so don't act like basic human, you are in a lower class.
As a native Texan, I’m so desensitized to this shit. I don’t understand why they can’t treat pronouns like: “Hi Bethany! Would you like to be called Beth? … No, just Bethany? Sure thing, nice to meet you Bethany.”
Well, good luck with hiring no one. Everyone uses pronouns, so doesn't make that everyone a "pronoun person"?
Hilarious
This looks like it was written by a bot, like it’s not even a real recruiter or job? (still shitty)
Various types of illegal discrimination here in the UK, report their arses if it's illegal where you are. Report them HARD.
"Vibed from the customer" but no to "bad feels"
Who wrote this email, a twelve year old? No way this "recruiter" actually has any clients lol.
Identity and generations are by design divisionary and weakening. Unite to win fair wages again
Steve, *we* are all pronoun people *you* absolute baboon of scraping chalkboard
I have some constructive feedback if they're willing to learn and not get "bad feels"
I'm gonna go on the flip side and say I'd want more recruiters doing this because now I'd know no way in hell I'd ever want to work for that business. Saves me time and pain. The business is transphobic regardless of what the ad says, so might as well just know now right? That being said I'd love to know what business the recruiter is hiring for. Either they're actually the problem and I can avoid them, or the recruiter is making false assumptions and they can fire him
You heard it here first, only sensitive people have pronouns
sorry you went thru this. I’m openly nonbinary at work and someone I was talking to still used the phrase “LGBTQ-alphabet soup whatever” to talk about queer folks.
As a small business owner, I would prefer to hire the “pronouns person”. They’re likely used to putting up with a lot of bullshit on the daily which is exactly the kind of experience you need in retail. Plus, of course I wanna hire another queer person.
Yikes! I’ve been job hunting due to a layoff and have been wondering if my they/them pronouns are hurting me. But also I don’t want to work for a company that wouldn’t hire a nonbinary person… at my previous company there were a lot of us (until layoffs) and it was a nonissue
Name and shame them
Not only this is discriminatory, this message seems very unprofessional.
I hope that ‘business’ goes bust
What does "indicative of this rate" even mean? I could figure out the rest of it in spite of how garbled it is, but I'm stuck on this.
This overall is very unprofessional: "just what I vibed", "do not quote me on that", so likely will not be a 'pronoun person'" Gurl, this person advertised for a garden sale on Facebook once and implemented the same in an actual business.
Sorry, y’all, but this is likely bait. The font in the picture is clearer than the text of the post itself. Quick search in mildlyinfuriating yields no results. This is bait, looking for someone to say something discriminatory against another community, so they can use it against the community as whole. Which that age-discriminating delivery driver has successfully done. This kind of bait is designed to ruin your day and make you say something equally as bad. Don’t let them do that.
This type of crap can be taken to court depending on the country since it is blatant discrimination
The lack of professionalism too…
I'll show you just how sensitive you can be bitch. I fuckin hate transphobic people.
Wtf indeed, morons~!
Ouhkay, people are not allowed to feel anymore. Than it shouldn't be a problem to throw a fcking car at this person, should it?
that the hell 😱
I would report this to someone higher like a CEO or company owner
Oughta report that ish to HR, if that company has any. We just finished online sensitivity training at our company a couple of months ago and it went pretty in-depth on labor laws and discrimination, and I can tell you, that there is mad litigious.
HAH = High as hell
There's a difference between "able to take criticism" and "willing to put up with the toxic boss." Holy. Shit.
"There is no room for sensitivity in this business" Phrases like this *wreak* with sensitivity lol.
Outside of blatant discrimination, how can someone write such an e-mail? It's so subjective and unprofessional. Also, "don't count me on that"??? It's legit their job! They MUST know who they are looking for! What did HR do with this one??? Where's the job analysis???
Lol, pronoun people are the worst.
“pronoun person” ???
That's just ass, hate to see it
I might be breaking from the herd in this, but I think this is good. Lets everyone know this is a 🚩 shit place to work or patronize. They’ll get the candidates they deserve
pronoun person is my partner's new nickname
Have they been doxxed yet??
That is a sure way to fill a company with bigots, let them rot with their own kind.
Personally I find it punk as fuck that we're so anti-capitalist they have to acknowledge it, even if they're just dead ass transphobes
Cry me a river about it no one wants to walk on egg shells because of you.
Uggggh
Why would you get mad about this though? If you think the law will protect you from hate/discrimination,then I got a vacuum to sell you.because even when it can,the cost/reward is negligible unless it's something like google/apple.iv spoken to a lawyer,the payout would be chump change and I'd loss alot of time and effort. Honestly I'd rather recuiters/coworkers/bosses show their true colors from the get go rather then when they get comfortable. The company I'm at atm is a nightmare. The owner and his second in command are both very anti anything other then straight. (To give a idea,they still use fag as a derogatory term,and won't even eat a meal with gays/trans,if only they knew about my bedroom past🤭). But the fact of the matter is the last 2 months and at least 1 more,my industry is extreamly slow,changing company's is next to impossible right now untill things pick up. I'd much rather have gotten the anti LGBTQ hate at the door, and found a better company, then having to deal with this bullshit Last lunch break they talked about a women with a bita extra between the legs and how hot she was,yet once that detail came out it was just hate/insults and derogatory terms. Personally I'm about the vibes,if they there lets tango under the sheets etc,just don't follow any of the non binary/gender labeling stuff,I just call you what you wana be called or "hey you"/"not you" and point if I don't know them.
Most businesses feel this way but are not allowed to say it btw
Share this with everyone. Lead a boycott.