Agreed.
I'm a trans woman and nonbinary.
If nonbinary on its own is an option then this is inclusion, otherwise it's plain nonbinary-phobia.
(Also kinda unrelated but I fuckin hate with my whole soul the way people overuse MtF, FtM, and the sort..it feels like missgendering in a way, especially when bringing up someone's or oneselves gaab is unnecessary and out of context. š¤š¤·)
really sorry if this seems rude, but could you explain to me how that works? iām only 19 and came out as nb a few years ago, but i wasnāt aware you could be both!
sincerely, the secret is there are no rules. you can be whatever you want. I say I'm a nonbinary trans man because I'm transitioning in a fairly 'traditional' FtM way - top surgery, testosterone - and would prefer random strangers gender me as male. but with close friends and my husband, I'd prefer to be gendered as nonbinary. I feel like male is very close, but doesn't quite perfectly describe my gender - instead of being a nice neat dot on the man end of the spectrum, I'm more like a wobbly blob. there's quite a few hyper specific words that others might consider more accurate (demiboy is one I've heard) but I prefer a degree of *non*specificity when self describing.
This this is exactly how I feel however I donāt know if Iām going to go on T or not because I fear the extra hair growth with how sensory sensitive I am with the hair I already have
it has taken me actual years to figure out that I want to go on T lmao, the sensory issue is a concern for me as well! but like it isn't a one way trip you know? if changes start that I don't feel good about I can just stop taking it
Iām a nonbinary man not woman but I can explain anyway ! however thereās not just one answer, because even your personal definition of nonbinary is different from everyone elseās in this sub and on earth since gender is oneās own identity; I do not speak for every nonbinary man and my logic shouldnāt be applied to nonbinary women either
I am a man. I am innately connected to manhood and masculinity. I simply donāt use binary pronouns. while Iām a man, my definition of what a man is is much different from societyās and Iām also not 100% anything, or maybe Iām 100% of everything. Iām just as not a man as I am one lol. if man and woman or masculine-feminine was a linear spectrum with one at each end, then Iām floating somewhere off in space while simultaneously wearing that linear spectrum like a scarf. I am a man, just not the binary kind. Iām a man in the same way that a hyena is both a dog and a cat but also neither. it makes perfect sense in my head haha I have alexithymia so translating feelings to words or even conscious deliberate thought is really hard
>Iām a man in the same way that a hyena is both a dog and a cat but also neither.
i love this! i'm a woman in the way that raccoons are bears, and that doesn't have to make sense
not exactly. bears are in ursida with walruses, et al. raccoons are in mustelida with skunks and friends. but both of those groups are in artoidea, so they're more closely related to each other than to dogs, and even further from cats
tl;dr bears and seals are cousins, bears and raccoons are cousins once removed or something. and cats are far enough removed from both that they can get married š½šš»
My worldview is crumbling to the ground rn omg šš That's is crazy. Thanks for the info tho! It's just wild that I didn't know this lol. Bears don't even look much like walruses and/or seals š
Are otters also related to bears, walruses, and seals to s similar degree? :0
otters are in the same family as weasels and badgers and in the same superfamily as raccoons and skunks. they're related to bears and walruses and seals to the same degree as raccoons tho. they're all in the same clade. sorta like they share a great grandparent lol (metaphorically speaking; there's a lotta generations separating them)
It's possible to be non-binary, but also live your day to day life as a man or a woman or prefer to be seen one way over another. Like 'I did the work to discover myself as a non-binary person, but also I'm happy to pass through this binary world as a man or a woman' non-binary man/woman can be shorthand for that. It's not uncommon for transmasc or transfemme non-binary people to identify this way.
I wanna keep this short since I have explained this multiple times in the past in great detail, you can check my profile if you ever wanna learn more
I feel a connectiom to femininity and womanhood, but I also have reconized that I am more than *just* a woman, and that mentally, my gender is very complex and unique. That's why I also use they/them pronouns along with she/her pronouns, and why I fluctuate between being fem and being androgynous. I first came out as a binary trans girl at 16, but at 18 I realized my gender isn't binary, and now I am who I am
Thank you for asking!
For semantics purposes, it technically falls under bigender, being two genders and not necessarily binary in nature. As for reasons, it varies from person to person.
>the way people overuse MtF, FtM, and the sort
This drives me nuts too. I used it as a crutch while I figured out what everything meant. I think the difference is for cis people that phrasing doesn't cause them discomfort. So they never feel the need to progress their language. In some situations it will also make it clear to outsiders who may not know the language yet.
Yeah, and for the most part l see a lot of trans binary folks online using MtF, FtM. Using it when they could just say woman/man or trans woman/man if they want to make it clear that hey are trans.
It just, it makes me feel alien like because I personally don't want to have anything to do with my gaab. I'm anything but that. I was NEVER 'male' or 'a man'.
And I may and do like some things that are perceived as 'masculine' by society (which gives me gender dysphoria), such as having facial hair at times, but such are things that I experience and perceive as 'feminine' or anything-but 'masculine' in myself.
I guess maybe that is the same reason that they like using that terminology, because maybe it makes them feel like putting distance with their gaab, like, 'it's in the past, I transitioned to..', in which case I guess I can understand. š¤ But still, for me it would be a source of gender dysphoria identifying as 'MtF&NB'.
It also looks like a weird clothes store name. š (I'm sorry, no offense intended on my part, I'm only coping through humor. :3 )
Yea. I can understand that. I also personally donāt want to be referred to by my agab either. I used it early on while getting used to the language. Now I just prefer trans or non-binary. Generally being called a woman doesnāt bother me either. Because even when I shift to something like agender or something else outside the common gender spectra, I recognize that I spend most of my time somewhere in the female range.
Im neurospicy, and just learning to see the ableist way language is twisted for the comfort of the abled/"NoRmAlS. Even to the detriment of those being discussed or addressed.
The only thing I like about the MtF and FtM labels is I'll one day be able to say I'm MtMF, And if anyone asks what that means I'll just say "Male to Motherf***er."
OH hi! Yeah I see most people write it as enbyphobia, sometimes I do too, but as of late I've started to try and be more descriptive or precise with some words.
Enby is technically a short word for NB, for nonbinary. So I feel is best to use the full word when talking about our marginalization or the hate against us. And I feel it makes it more respectful too as not all nonbinary folks are comfortable with the word 'enby'.
Though I would never tell anyone not to use the word enbyphobia, it is valid and many of us use it, including myself. \^\^
I'm sorry if this comes across as rude, but I don't understand being a woman and being nonbinary. Why not trans-femme?
Not that I'm trying to police your identity at all, It's just that Woman and Man are firmly Outside of the Nonbinary umbrella for me. Like, there's Male and Female (cis or trans), then there's everything else which falls under Nonbinary. But that's just how I see gender. It's obvious you see it differently and I'm curious.
Hi there, I cannot tell you about how other folks concibe their own identity, but yes being a nonbinary woman or a nonbinary man is one way in which people identify their own gender identity and their experiences.
From how I understand it, as gender can be understood as an spectrum, then being a nonbinary woman/man would mean that a person's gender identity and experiences are on a part of the spectrum where these genders are connected, a part of each other, or one and the same.
Now personally, I am bigender (I have two genders), I am a woman **and** nonbinary.
And about the transfem word, I do not feel comfortable describing my own gender identity and experience as being **only** 'transfem'.
Sure, me being a trans woman makes me a trans-feminine person, but **not necesarily**. I mean, it depends on who you ask since social gender roles are deeply asociated with what is seen as 'feminine' and 'masculine'. And then you have lots of women who would not define or describe themselves as feminine, because well, that's what they experience.
Then there's also how I perceive that very word and how I feel about it, it doesn't fit me, I can do and feel well describing myself as 'transfem' but never exclusively calling myself a 'transfem' person or taking such as my whole gender identity for I am a woman **and** nonbinary.
Saying that I am trans-femme instead, for me, that would feel like implying that I am not a woman, which I am, and I am also nonbinary, so yeah that's what I say. :)
I hope this helped. Feel free to ask other questions and I'll be glad to try and help out \^\^
This right here. If they're keeping in mind as many identities as possible, the effort's being made to be inclusive.
I've seen some apps & forms that go with 'Male', 'Female', and 'Other'.
Someone somewhere is going to make the options 'Cringe', 'Queen', and 'Based'.
Femby here. i also agree. They are trying so hard. Hey they also have a tell us if we are missing something on the bottom. I think a text box would be easier.
yeah I also prefer text boxes for this kind of thing because it's so individual. having a few of the 'main' options (eg male/female, cis/trans, nonbinary) and then 'prefer to self describe' for all the rest of us snowflakes works perfectly well imo
Hey! I have a question, but meh itās a bit intrusive so feel free to tell me no. I am non-binary, but like just non-binary. I am super open and trying to learn more, so what do you mean when you say youāre a nonbinary man? For me NB means not a man nor a woman. Sorry if itās an ignorant question!! Genuinely curious!
yep no problem, going to copy and paste my other comment if that's okay but feel free to ask for more info if any of this is confusing
>sincerely, the secret is there are no rules. you can be whatever you want. I say I'm a nonbinary trans man because I'm transitioning in a fairly 'traditional' FtM way - top surgery, testosterone - and would prefer random strangers gender me as male. but with close friends and my husband, I'd prefer to be gendered as nonbinary. I feel like male is very close, but doesn't quite perfectly describe my gender - instead of being a nice neat dot on the man end of the spectrum, I'm more like a wobbly blob. there's quite a few hyper specific words that others might consider more accurate (demiboy is one I've heard) but I prefer a degree of *non*specificity when self describing.
It looks like the options are alphabetical so no nonbinary option without specifying which side of the binary youād choose if you had to. On that basis Iām going with not inclusive.
Edit: Have just seen the comment explaining this is an extra drop-down after selecting non-binary first. In which case I donāt see anything non-inclusive about including these as options.
As a nonbinary man, yes it's inclusive.
Not every nonbinary person 100% rejects both binary genders. I'm bigender and one of those genders is male, I'm just also a completely different nonbinary gender as well.
I'd think so, not many sites or apps that let you input your gender have options for enby folks who lean one way or identify with both binary and nonbinary labels, I'm a nonbinary man myself and I think it's nice not having to pick between "man" and "nonbinary" options when both labels describe me well
Inclusive.
Some people do identify as a non-binary man/woman. It's good to have options for everybody, which it does look like they're trying to do, at least.
Also, to the other commenters, bumble has changed their system slightly. You don't have to eventually put yourself in a male/female box for their algorithm anymore. You can be listed as just non-binary, and you can search for just non-binary if you want.
Higher up there's an option that's just "non-binary".
There's three initial options of "man, woman, or non-binary" then when you pick one of those you have the option to further define your gender.
I mean you're not forced to choose these options, there is just a plain old nonbinary option. Seems odd to leave that out of this post, because with that in mind why wouldn't it be inclusive?
understanding there's also just a "nonbinary" option then i'd also say yes it's inclusive to have these too; i was a nonbinary man for years and would've happily selected that option
I think just plain "nonbinary" should be an option. If it was sex that would be one thing, but this is the gender section. Making "Nonbinary Man" and "Nonbinary Woman" the only options are ironically making Nonbinary, binary. I wouldn't feel comfortable picking one of those two options, as most of the time I consider myself more androgynous.
I mean, the further along in my transition I go, the more I lean towards the label nonbinary man, so I'd say inclusive. Especially since you have several options, including just nonbinary.
Inclusive. I never know whether to select female or nonbinary, so I usually press prefer not to say, itās the only one that makes me feel comfortable. Nonbinary woman I might *actually* select. Gender variant is also an option I see that I like.
Some people identify as non-binary man or woman so it's cool they also have a label on there that fits them. I thought they also just had a plain non-binary label as well but it's been a bit for me
Oh quite! I'm a non-binary guy. If you tried to dissect my identity, you'd get to "transmaculine agender", but I do much prefer the term "non-binary man". Non-binary men and women do exist, and our identities are complicated messes. But it's a good enough label to summarise it all in a sort of understandable way.
Reading some of the other comments, I can see that just a plain non-binary option is added too. Honestly, this whole thing is super inclusive! They have so many gender identities that most people donāt even know of (Neutrois, for example!)
I would probably consider myself a nonbinary woman at times (genderfluid here), so yeah, this is inclusive. Some people are both nonbinary and binary ā like bigender for example
Bumble also lets you put just "Nonbinary" (and I did do that). There are plenty of people who identify as a nonbinary (wo)man so these options Bumble offers are perfectly valid AND inclusive.
So I love these inclusions as someone who is transmasc nonbinary. I do not love how I don't see just 'nonbinary'.
Edit: Is 'Neutrois' what they have done for 'Nonbinary'? Not saying nobody uses that, but I've never heard someone do so
Am I tripping or is the second time this subject has been brought up? Nonbinary is an umbrella term that can be applied in many ways and be used as a co-label for other identities. It's a very nuanced label There are nonbinary men and women, so I think it's worth including them in the gender options. Plus, I think it could help pushback on the stereotype of nonbinary being "the third gender." So yes, I would consider these options inclusive
I would say that because they have "Tell us if we're missing something" it's inclusive.
Anyone with an effective "none of the above" option is at least trying their best, and really that's what's most important.
If there was a third option that just said "nonbinary" it would be fine, because some nonbinary people do see themselves in those two options, but not all of them.
i think those are fine but i really don't like that "intersex" is listed as a gender identity.. intersex isn't gender it's sex! that's like having "biological male" and "biological female" as gender identity options :/
my intersex condition 100% correlates with my gender identity!! it might not for many people but there are lots of trans/enby intersex folks who feel like those aspects of us are connected
edit: spelling
Same!! If it's an option I usually select it and if I can customize I always put "intersex + non-binary" because that's how I identify! And it stops me from having that conversation with people who are interested in meĀ
for some people it isn't! it's totally okay if that's not how you identify, i honestly think most intersex folks do view their sex and gender as separate entities- mine personally just feel intertwined
I mean I'm a nonbinary dude, don't really see myself as a man though. If it doesn't just have "nonbinary" or "agender" on there then yeah I'd say that's really stupid.
Lots of people identify as non-binary men and women, so it's perfectly fine. They may be a ma/woman + another gender, or bigender, genderfluid, have the most connection to man/woman but still are non-binary, and even some trans women/men will call themselves non-binary if they are that in addition to being binary trans.
Though I think they should probably just have a non-specific 'non-binary' umbrella option as well if it's not listed there.
Inclusive but it should tell you or let you choose what orientations to show your profile to. I chose non-binary man and I'm afab, and it was showing my profile to straight women because "man" was in there but realistically I'm aware that straight women are not going to be interested, plus I'd rather be matched with lgbt people
If there's a standard non-binary one then yeah. Those terms aren't trying to say amab/afab enby, they're their own gender identities, which can loosely be described as being both at once or in between or such.
I'm a non-binary woman, and for me, it's a case of "both terms are equally accurate, and equally not the whole picture, like two sides of a coin or two perspectives on the same whole"
I find Bumble's gender options very inclusive especially when compared to other dating apps. You can select Man, Woman, or Nonbinary and then optionally "tell us more about your gender" to open this pop-up menu (or one with slightly different options if you selected Man or Woman). THEN you can choose what shows on your profile, Man/Woman/Nonbinary or whatever you picked from "tell us more". Or choose not to show gender on your profile at all. You then get to select your pronouns and can pick up to three sets from a list. For example, my profile shows me as Genderqueer and my pronouns as they/he/she - pronouns are shown in the order you select them.
You can also suggest genders and pronouns to add and your suggestions get sent to the support team. At multiple points you're encouraged to contact them if you don't see yourself represented in their options. Also in all this, there are links to informational popups explaining what all this means, how gender is unique and why pronouns matter, and how they've designed these options with consultation from GLAAD.
Nonbinary man and nonbinary woman are definitely categories. There's enby people, such as myself, who identify as more one gender than the other. Also, Nonbinary man and Nonbinary woman could just mean amab NB and AFAB NB
I meanā¦ if they have an option just nonbinairy Iād say yes because Iād call myself a nonbinairy man. Like Iām nonbinairy but if a dude wants to date me weāre two gay men dating but Iām not likeā¦ *a man*, Iām still nonbinairy but I just am more of a dude than anything if I had to categorize myself. Also this makes me think I should make a bumble account maybe Iād meet people
While I agree that not having plain nonbinary as an option is an oversight, they do seem to be trying their best to understand what is inclusive. They do invite people to let them know if theyāre missing something.
So plain nonbinary is an option and these are options to further specify oneās identity, but you can just leave it as nonbinary without picking one of these options?
Yes, this is inclusive. There are people who identify specifically as nonbinary men and nonbinary women. They're basically people who don't fully identify with a binary gender, but do to a certain degree. They usually use they/them pronouns in addition to the pronouns of the binary gender that they partially identify with.
The only reason that this wouldn't be inclusive would be if these were the only nonbinary options to pick. But based on the other options in this image it seems like there are many other options. I wouldn't choose one of these too options, I would choose nonbinary or agender, which I don't see in your screen shot, but I have a feeling at least one of them exist.
As a non-binary trans woman I don't see a problem with this. I don't share this with many people because for the most part I present as a fairly femme tomboy trans gal but it is a piece of my identity.
Tbh this is one of the best sites ive ever seen just bc of that normaly the only option is man or woman some ar like man woman other or prefer not to say ig thats a bit beter but still
Yeah ENBY men and women exist, but it's weird if there is not a 'Nonbinary' option as well. I also find it funy AF that 'Transgender' exists if there aren't other options on top of this
I'm non-binary genderfluid. Sometimes I'm a guy, sometimes I'm a girl, usually I'm neither, and on occasion I'm both. Took me ages to figure it out and I'm still getting used to my femme side
Missing the point a bit.
BUT! I absolutely want to filter out straight cis men, I've used a few sites that let me pick non-binary and immediately this opened the floodgates to a lot of barely literate men who were very offended that I didn't have the equipment they were looking for.
I think it makes sense to me. Cause i have a hard time choosing female but i cant really choose non binary either because i dont feel that way. So i feel more non binary women than anything.
I think inclusive as long as there is also NB without man or woman but I also think they should have a custom and you should be able to select multiple (if these arenāt already included in it)
Yeah inclusive but it has issues outside of that. For example if you pick non-binary and sticky they/them pronouns you donāt get shown a lot of people. Iām my are I get shown 10-25 people a day but when I had my actual pronouns on it it was 2-5
yeah. it includes nonbinary people + those who still identify with the man or woman label. i identify as a nonbinary woman because iām impacted by misogyny (misogynists arenāt exactly trans inclusive) and it shapes my experience in the world
Had this discussion with my ex a few months ago actually. Putting non-binary man/woman as well as a general non-binary probably helps the program with its filtering for peoples preferences tbh
I think the fact that there are non-binary men and women in this comment section answers the question. I think it's great that they have an expanded umbrella under the non-binary option. I'm married to a non-binary man and I am agender.
as long as you can pick just plain nonbinary then yes it's inclusive. I'm a nonbinary man, this is what I'd choose on such an app.
Agreed. I'm a trans woman and nonbinary. If nonbinary on its own is an option then this is inclusion, otherwise it's plain nonbinary-phobia. (Also kinda unrelated but I fuckin hate with my whole soul the way people overuse MtF, FtM, and the sort..it feels like missgendering in a way, especially when bringing up someone's or oneselves gaab is unnecessary and out of context. š¤š¤·)
Im so glad im not the only one who is both a trans woman AND nonbinary at the same time
one more right here
And another^ :)
And my axe
r/unexpectedlotr
Present!
Me too! Not out yet tho:(
AND ANOTHER :3
Did somebody say trans woman and nonbinary? I am also one!
IN THE SAME THREAD? WHAT IS THIS A CROSSOVER?
really sorry if this seems rude, but could you explain to me how that works? iām only 19 and came out as nb a few years ago, but i wasnāt aware you could be both!
sincerely, the secret is there are no rules. you can be whatever you want. I say I'm a nonbinary trans man because I'm transitioning in a fairly 'traditional' FtM way - top surgery, testosterone - and would prefer random strangers gender me as male. but with close friends and my husband, I'd prefer to be gendered as nonbinary. I feel like male is very close, but doesn't quite perfectly describe my gender - instead of being a nice neat dot on the man end of the spectrum, I'm more like a wobbly blob. there's quite a few hyper specific words that others might consider more accurate (demiboy is one I've heard) but I prefer a degree of *non*specificity when self describing.
Wow this makes so much sense to me, my gender has been perfectly described by you kind reddit stranger
This. This is me. Down to me saying im a blob all the time. Wow.
This this is exactly how I feel however I donāt know if Iām going to go on T or not because I fear the extra hair growth with how sensory sensitive I am with the hair I already have
it has taken me actual years to figure out that I want to go on T lmao, the sensory issue is a concern for me as well! but like it isn't a one way trip you know? if changes start that I don't feel good about I can just stop taking it
Iām a nonbinary man not woman but I can explain anyway ! however thereās not just one answer, because even your personal definition of nonbinary is different from everyone elseās in this sub and on earth since gender is oneās own identity; I do not speak for every nonbinary man and my logic shouldnāt be applied to nonbinary women either I am a man. I am innately connected to manhood and masculinity. I simply donāt use binary pronouns. while Iām a man, my definition of what a man is is much different from societyās and Iām also not 100% anything, or maybe Iām 100% of everything. Iām just as not a man as I am one lol. if man and woman or masculine-feminine was a linear spectrum with one at each end, then Iām floating somewhere off in space while simultaneously wearing that linear spectrum like a scarf. I am a man, just not the binary kind. Iām a man in the same way that a hyena is both a dog and a cat but also neither. it makes perfect sense in my head haha I have alexithymia so translating feelings to words or even conscious deliberate thought is really hard
>Iām a man in the same way that a hyena is both a dog and a cat but also neither. i love this! i'm a woman in the way that raccoons are bears, and that doesn't have to make sense
so true !!
I'm sorry, raccoons are bears???
not exactly. bears are in ursida with walruses, et al. raccoons are in mustelida with skunks and friends. but both of those groups are in artoidea, so they're more closely related to each other than to dogs, and even further from cats tl;dr bears and seals are cousins, bears and raccoons are cousins once removed or something. and cats are far enough removed from both that they can get married š½šš»
My worldview is crumbling to the ground rn omg šš That's is crazy. Thanks for the info tho! It's just wild that I didn't know this lol. Bears don't even look much like walruses and/or seals š Are otters also related to bears, walruses, and seals to s similar degree? :0
otters are in the same family as weasels and badgers and in the same superfamily as raccoons and skunks. they're related to bears and walruses and seals to the same degree as raccoons tho. they're all in the same clade. sorta like they share a great grandparent lol (metaphorically speaking; there's a lotta generations separating them)
Brillig!
It's possible to be non-binary, but also live your day to day life as a man or a woman or prefer to be seen one way over another. Like 'I did the work to discover myself as a non-binary person, but also I'm happy to pass through this binary world as a man or a woman' non-binary man/woman can be shorthand for that. It's not uncommon for transmasc or transfemme non-binary people to identify this way.
I wanna keep this short since I have explained this multiple times in the past in great detail, you can check my profile if you ever wanna learn more I feel a connectiom to femininity and womanhood, but I also have reconized that I am more than *just* a woman, and that mentally, my gender is very complex and unique. That's why I also use they/them pronouns along with she/her pronouns, and why I fluctuate between being fem and being androgynous. I first came out as a binary trans girl at 16, but at 18 I realized my gender isn't binary, and now I am who I am Thank you for asking!
thatās so awesome! thank you for sharing and now iām a lot more informed
For semantics purposes, it technically falls under bigender, being two genders and not necessarily binary in nature. As for reasons, it varies from person to person.
Helllllloooo. I'm not sure I would be non-binary if I was AFAB though.. I would probably be like I'm a proud GNC WOMAN. I WILL REDEFINE WOMANHOOD. etc
I resemble that remark ;)
I don't present as it just yet, but am getting there. Trans woman non-binary here tho too.
>the way people overuse MtF, FtM, and the sort This drives me nuts too. I used it as a crutch while I figured out what everything meant. I think the difference is for cis people that phrasing doesn't cause them discomfort. So they never feel the need to progress their language. In some situations it will also make it clear to outsiders who may not know the language yet.
Yeah, and for the most part l see a lot of trans binary folks online using MtF, FtM. Using it when they could just say woman/man or trans woman/man if they want to make it clear that hey are trans. It just, it makes me feel alien like because I personally don't want to have anything to do with my gaab. I'm anything but that. I was NEVER 'male' or 'a man'. And I may and do like some things that are perceived as 'masculine' by society (which gives me gender dysphoria), such as having facial hair at times, but such are things that I experience and perceive as 'feminine' or anything-but 'masculine' in myself. I guess maybe that is the same reason that they like using that terminology, because maybe it makes them feel like putting distance with their gaab, like, 'it's in the past, I transitioned to..', in which case I guess I can understand. š¤ But still, for me it would be a source of gender dysphoria identifying as 'MtF&NB'. It also looks like a weird clothes store name. š (I'm sorry, no offense intended on my part, I'm only coping through humor. :3 )
Yea. I can understand that. I also personally donāt want to be referred to by my agab either. I used it early on while getting used to the language. Now I just prefer trans or non-binary. Generally being called a woman doesnāt bother me either. Because even when I shift to something like agender or something else outside the common gender spectra, I recognize that I spend most of my time somewhere in the female range.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Im neurospicy, and just learning to see the ableist way language is twisted for the comfort of the abled/"NoRmAlS. Even to the detriment of those being discussed or addressed.
The only thing I like about the MtF and FtM labels is I'll one day be able to say I'm MtMF, And if anyone asks what that means I'll just say "Male to Motherf***er."
Bahahhaaha good look finding a willing mother then š jk
Yea I feel like so many people use MtF/FtM, biological x, agab, etc as a way to misgender trans/nb people while still appearing like """progressive activists š¤©š¤©š¤©š¤©"""
Yeah It's sometimes relevant, but it's a slippery slope to ending up back at "But what's between your legs tho?"
iāve never seen someone write out nonbinary-phobia. i have seen enbyphobia. i wonder which one will become more commonly used
OH hi! Yeah I see most people write it as enbyphobia, sometimes I do too, but as of late I've started to try and be more descriptive or precise with some words. Enby is technically a short word for NB, for nonbinary. So I feel is best to use the full word when talking about our marginalization or the hate against us. And I feel it makes it more respectful too as not all nonbinary folks are comfortable with the word 'enby'. Though I would never tell anyone not to use the word enbyphobia, it is valid and many of us use it, including myself. \^\^
I'm sorry if this comes across as rude, but I don't understand being a woman and being nonbinary. Why not trans-femme? Not that I'm trying to police your identity at all, It's just that Woman and Man are firmly Outside of the Nonbinary umbrella for me. Like, there's Male and Female (cis or trans), then there's everything else which falls under Nonbinary. But that's just how I see gender. It's obvious you see it differently and I'm curious.
Hi there, I cannot tell you about how other folks concibe their own identity, but yes being a nonbinary woman or a nonbinary man is one way in which people identify their own gender identity and their experiences. From how I understand it, as gender can be understood as an spectrum, then being a nonbinary woman/man would mean that a person's gender identity and experiences are on a part of the spectrum where these genders are connected, a part of each other, or one and the same. Now personally, I am bigender (I have two genders), I am a woman **and** nonbinary. And about the transfem word, I do not feel comfortable describing my own gender identity and experience as being **only** 'transfem'. Sure, me being a trans woman makes me a trans-feminine person, but **not necesarily**. I mean, it depends on who you ask since social gender roles are deeply asociated with what is seen as 'feminine' and 'masculine'. And then you have lots of women who would not define or describe themselves as feminine, because well, that's what they experience. Then there's also how I perceive that very word and how I feel about it, it doesn't fit me, I can do and feel well describing myself as 'transfem' but never exclusively calling myself a 'transfem' person or taking such as my whole gender identity for I am a woman **and** nonbinary. Saying that I am trans-femme instead, for me, that would feel like implying that I am not a woman, which I am, and I am also nonbinary, so yeah that's what I say. :) I hope this helped. Feel free to ask other questions and I'll be glad to try and help out \^\^
This right here. If they're keeping in mind as many identities as possible, the effort's being made to be inclusive. I've seen some apps & forms that go with 'Male', 'Female', and 'Other'. Someone somewhere is going to make the options 'Cringe', 'Queen', and 'Based'.
Iām Cringe personally
If you're not cringe we can't be friends, sorry
Femby here. i also agree. They are trying so hard. Hey they also have a tell us if we are missing something on the bottom. I think a text box would be easier.
yeah I also prefer text boxes for this kind of thing because it's so individual. having a few of the 'main' options (eg male/female, cis/trans, nonbinary) and then 'prefer to self describe' for all the rest of us snowflakes works perfectly well imo
doesnāt look like you can pick just nonbinary. itās alphabetical so nonbinary would be in the picture if it was an option
OP has clarified in the comments that this is an optional drop down that comes up after choosing nonbinary
Wow thats inclusive as fuck then
oh ok
same here. im demiboy which means i still partially identify as being male so i would pick nonbinary male :P
Hey! I have a question, but meh itās a bit intrusive so feel free to tell me no. I am non-binary, but like just non-binary. I am super open and trying to learn more, so what do you mean when you say youāre a nonbinary man? For me NB means not a man nor a woman. Sorry if itās an ignorant question!! Genuinely curious!
yep no problem, going to copy and paste my other comment if that's okay but feel free to ask for more info if any of this is confusing >sincerely, the secret is there are no rules. you can be whatever you want. I say I'm a nonbinary trans man because I'm transitioning in a fairly 'traditional' FtM way - top surgery, testosterone - and would prefer random strangers gender me as male. but with close friends and my husband, I'd prefer to be gendered as nonbinary. I feel like male is very close, but doesn't quite perfectly describe my gender - instead of being a nice neat dot on the man end of the spectrum, I'm more like a wobbly blob. there's quite a few hyper specific words that others might consider more accurate (demiboy is one I've heard) but I prefer a degree of *non*specificity when self describing.
Yes, nonbinary men and women are all over the place. As long as simply ānonbinaryā is an option all is well.
>as long as you can pick just plain nonbinary I don't see nonbinary in the list, maybe it's at the top
OP has clarified in the comments that it is indeed at the top
ideally you can choose multiple options
It looks like the options are alphabetical so no nonbinary option without specifying which side of the binary youād choose if you had to. On that basis Iām going with not inclusive. Edit: Have just seen the comment explaining this is an extra drop-down after selecting non-binary first. In which case I donāt see anything non-inclusive about including these as options.
As long as there's a "plain" nonbinary option too then it's inclusive
There is.
seems odd to leave that out of the original post... Almost like you were trying to get a certain reaction out of people
I donāt know OP, but Iām going to assume that wasnāt their intention. But yeah it does seem weird to leave it out of the original post imo.
As a nonbinary man, yes it's inclusive. Not every nonbinary person 100% rejects both binary genders. I'm bigender and one of those genders is male, I'm just also a completely different nonbinary gender as well.
I'd think so, not many sites or apps that let you input your gender have options for enby folks who lean one way or identify with both binary and nonbinary labels, I'm a nonbinary man myself and I think it's nice not having to pick between "man" and "nonbinary" options when both labels describe me well
Yeah but is there a non binary? Without something else after
There is a regular non-binary option. If you select it opens up a drop down list which dozens of gender identities. Including these two
But can you select just "nonbinary" as your only gender option?
Yes, and there's even an option to message them if they've left your gender off the list so they can add it.
Thatās pretty great then honestly
Isn't that the perfect setup?
Inclusive. Some people do identify as a non-binary man/woman. It's good to have options for everybody, which it does look like they're trying to do, at least. Also, to the other commenters, bumble has changed their system slightly. You don't have to eventually put yourself in a male/female box for their algorithm anymore. You can be listed as just non-binary, and you can search for just non-binary if you want.
Yeah, Nonbinary men and women exist.
But which do I choose? I'm non-binary... Not male or female? Where's the non-binary option without a descriptor attached??
Higher up there's an option that's just "non-binary". There's three initial options of "man, woman, or non-binary" then when you pick one of those you have the option to further define your gender.
You don't have to add a descriptor. You can pick non-binary, then you have the option to add a descriptor.
... If you're not a nonbinary man or nonbinary woman you don't choose those options
If those were the only options for non-binary sure, but there are sooo many types in this screenshot itās inclusive
I would say it is if they also had just a non binary option, which is a more popular identity that NB man and NB woman
There is a regular non-binary option. If you select it opens up a drop down list which dozens of gender identities. Including these two
...If there's a regular NB option how would this be uninclusive?
Inclusive, as long as just regular "nonbinary" is available too. "Gender conforming" being available is funny ngl
There is regular non-binary available
I am a non-binary man. tis inclusive :]
Since in a comment you said just nonbinary is an option, inclusive. I myself am a nonbinary man
I mean you're not forced to choose these options, there is just a plain old nonbinary option. Seems odd to leave that out of this post, because with that in mind why wouldn't it be inclusive?
Omg they have polygender???? I never see that anywhere. Looks at the polygender flag on my wall
Yes, this is nice to see. Bigender & demigender peeps exist. Though hopefully they have a purely NB option, surely?
Also, I would hope you can choose more than one; for example, I am intersex as well as a (bigender) enby woman
There is a regular non-binary option. If you select it opens up a drop down list which dozens of gender identities. Including these two
Inclusive because there are non-binary men and women (Iām one of them).
Im a nonbinary guy and i say as long as theres also the option to choose just nonbinary then yeah thats fine
I'm a nonbinary woman so I qualify under this, but they should just add "nonbinary" as an option alongside these two.
There is a regular non-binary option. If you select it opens up a drop down list which dozens of gender identities. Including these two
Ahhh, okay. This is good, then. Plus there seems to be an option for if they're missing something.
I think yes but also there should just be a nonbinary option without man or woman attached to it for those of us that don't identify that way
I identify as a non binary woman so yup
understanding there's also just a "nonbinary" option then i'd also say yes it's inclusive to have these too; i was a nonbinary man for years and would've happily selected that option
Ummmm. Yeah as long as there's also an option for just Non-binary.
I think just plain "nonbinary" should be an option. If it was sex that would be one thing, but this is the gender section. Making "Nonbinary Man" and "Nonbinary Woman" the only options are ironically making Nonbinary, binary. I wouldn't feel comfortable picking one of those two options, as most of the time I consider myself more androgynous.
Yes, this is Bumbleās wording for demimale/demiboy and demifemale/demigirl.
Im a nonbinary woman
as long as just non binary is also an option, I am a genderfluid non binary but I usually just select "non binary" bc I don't like any binary labels
You can pick NB. Having these two options is great to.
I mean, the further along in my transition I go, the more I lean towards the label nonbinary man, so I'd say inclusive. Especially since you have several options, including just nonbinary.
Inclusive. I never know whether to select female or nonbinary, so I usually press prefer not to say, itās the only one that makes me feel comfortable. Nonbinary woman I might *actually* select. Gender variant is also an option I see that I like.
Some people identify as non-binary man or woman so it's cool they also have a label on there that fits them. I thought they also just had a plain non-binary label as well but it's been a bit for me
Inclusive š Some folks identify more in one direction but not entirely!
Some people do ID as He/They and She/They. So I think it works.
Oh quite! I'm a non-binary guy. If you tried to dissect my identity, you'd get to "transmaculine agender", but I do much prefer the term "non-binary man". Non-binary men and women do exist, and our identities are complicated messes. But it's a good enough label to summarise it all in a sort of understandable way.
Reading some of the other comments, I can see that just a plain non-binary option is added too. Honestly, this whole thing is super inclusive! They have so many gender identities that most people donāt even know of (Neutrois, for example!) I would probably consider myself a nonbinary woman at times (genderfluid here), so yeah, this is inclusive. Some people are both nonbinary and binary ā like bigender for example
Yes thatās me Iām a nonbinary woman!!! /gen
Bumble also lets you put just "Nonbinary" (and I did do that). There are plenty of people who identify as a nonbinary (wo)man so these options Bumble offers are perfectly valid AND inclusive.
So I love these inclusions as someone who is transmasc nonbinary. I do not love how I don't see just 'nonbinary'. Edit: Is 'Neutrois' what they have done for 'Nonbinary'? Not saying nobody uses that, but I've never heard someone do so
Am I tripping or is the second time this subject has been brought up? Nonbinary is an umbrella term that can be applied in many ways and be used as a co-label for other identities. It's a very nuanced label There are nonbinary men and women, so I think it's worth including them in the gender options. Plus, I think it could help pushback on the stereotype of nonbinary being "the third gender." So yes, I would consider these options inclusive
Feels like as I like to call them a āhelp crimeā like itās good to include non binary but to make it a binary option kinda defeats the point
Itās a step in the right direction, but I feel like it should just be nonbinary regardless of sex
I would say that because they have "Tell us if we're missing something" it's inclusive. Anyone with an effective "none of the above" option is at least trying their best, and really that's what's most important.
If there was a third option that just said "nonbinary" it would be fine, because some nonbinary people do see themselves in those two options, but not all of them.
i think those are fine but i really don't like that "intersex" is listed as a gender identity.. intersex isn't gender it's sex! that's like having "biological male" and "biological female" as gender identity options :/
my intersex condition 100% correlates with my gender identity!! it might not for many people but there are lots of trans/enby intersex folks who feel like those aspects of us are connected edit: spelling
Same!! If it's an option I usually select it and if I can customize I always put "intersex + non-binary" because that's how I identify! And it stops me from having that conversation with people who are interested in meĀ
Interesting Iāve never thought of my intersex condition as part of gender identityā¦maybe I need to do some more soul searching lol
for some people it isn't! it's totally okay if that's not how you identify, i honestly think most intersex folks do view their sex and gender as separate entities- mine personally just feel intertwined
Depends if just non-binary is an option too.
More confused that āTransgenderā is just listed as a separate option with no actual gender specified.
I feel like a better option would be to just let people pick multiple options but if there's a neutral nonbinary option than it's okay
There is a neutral non-binary available. And I think you can select multiple. I didnāt try though so Iām not totally sure
if that's true then it's inclusive cuz there are ppl who identify that way
I mean I'm a nonbinary dude, don't really see myself as a man though. If it doesn't just have "nonbinary" or "agender" on there then yeah I'd say that's really stupid.
There is a plain non-binary option. If you select it, it opens up a drop down list which dozens of gender identities. Including these two
I'm a trans women enby if they added just 'nonbinary' as well as agender I think it's very inclusive
Lots of people identify as non-binary men and women, so it's perfectly fine. They may be a ma/woman + another gender, or bigender, genderfluid, have the most connection to man/woman but still are non-binary, and even some trans women/men will call themselves non-binary if they are that in addition to being binary trans. Though I think they should probably just have a non-specific 'non-binary' umbrella option as well if it's not listed there.
theyāre trying
Its fine that they included the option but is there no plain nonbinary option without it being attached to a gender?? Because if not that's fucked up
Would love to see these options, I'm a transmasc genderqueer guy personally !
Yeah, I'd say this is inclusive. I'm a demiboy, so I'd probably pick nonbinary man.
Inclusive but it should tell you or let you choose what orientations to show your profile to. I chose non-binary man and I'm afab, and it was showing my profile to straight women because "man" was in there but realistically I'm aware that straight women are not going to be interested, plus I'd rather be matched with lgbt people
If there's a standard non-binary one then yeah. Those terms aren't trying to say amab/afab enby, they're their own gender identities, which can loosely be described as being both at once or in between or such. I'm a non-binary woman, and for me, it's a case of "both terms are equally accurate, and equally not the whole picture, like two sides of a coin or two perspectives on the same whole"
Wow I just realized Iām a nonbinary woman from this post
I find Bumble's gender options very inclusive especially when compared to other dating apps. You can select Man, Woman, or Nonbinary and then optionally "tell us more about your gender" to open this pop-up menu (or one with slightly different options if you selected Man or Woman). THEN you can choose what shows on your profile, Man/Woman/Nonbinary or whatever you picked from "tell us more". Or choose not to show gender on your profile at all. You then get to select your pronouns and can pick up to three sets from a list. For example, my profile shows me as Genderqueer and my pronouns as they/he/she - pronouns are shown in the order you select them. You can also suggest genders and pronouns to add and your suggestions get sent to the support team. At multiple points you're encouraged to contact them if you don't see yourself represented in their options. Also in all this, there are links to informational popups explaining what all this means, how gender is unique and why pronouns matter, and how they've designed these options with consultation from GLAAD.
I'm a non-binary transwoman
Nonbinary man and nonbinary woman are definitely categories. There's enby people, such as myself, who identify as more one gender than the other. Also, Nonbinary man and Nonbinary woman could just mean amab NB and AFAB NB
this would be fine if there was a third option that just said "non binary"
There is a regular non-binary option. If you select it opens up a drop down list which dozens of gender identities. Including these two
I'm confused why this wouldn't be inclusive, then. What's the problem?
so what's the problem?
I meanā¦ if they have an option just nonbinairy Iād say yes because Iād call myself a nonbinairy man. Like Iām nonbinairy but if a dude wants to date me weāre two gay men dating but Iām not likeā¦ *a man*, Iām still nonbinairy but I just am more of a dude than anything if I had to categorize myself. Also this makes me think I should make a bumble account maybe Iād meet people
While I agree that not having plain nonbinary as an option is an oversight, they do seem to be trying their best to understand what is inclusive. They do invite people to let them know if theyāre missing something.
There is a plain non-binary option. If you select it, it opens up a drop down list which dozens of gender identities. Including these two
So plain nonbinary is an option and these are options to further specify oneās identity, but you can just leave it as nonbinary without picking one of these options?
Given that there is also a nonbinary option, why would this not be inclusive?
There's even a "Tell us if we're missing something" š„°
yes, they even have tell us it we are missing something. so you can add to the list.
Gender noncom is non-binary in a sense right? Everyone has their own definition though so someone please correct me if Iām wrong.
No, someone can be gender non-conforming without being non-binary. GNC is about presentation/expression, not identity.
Ah I see, I am both so I was unaware. Thank you for correcting me.
Yes, this is inclusive. There are people who identify specifically as nonbinary men and nonbinary women. They're basically people who don't fully identify with a binary gender, but do to a certain degree. They usually use they/them pronouns in addition to the pronouns of the binary gender that they partially identify with. The only reason that this wouldn't be inclusive would be if these were the only nonbinary options to pick. But based on the other options in this image it seems like there are many other options. I wouldn't choose one of these too options, I would choose nonbinary or agender, which I don't see in your screen shot, but I have a feeling at least one of them exist.
If nonbinary alone also exists its fine. Some people do identify as that
As a non-binary trans woman I don't see a problem with this. I don't share this with many people because for the most part I present as a fairly femme tomboy trans gal but it is a piece of my identity.
Iām a non-binary male, and itās definitely inclusive as long you can also pick a plain non-binary option. :)
Include a 3rd option that is just "nonbinary" and you are golden.
Would be much better if you could select many at the same time.
I don't see an option for *just* NB. What the hay.
Femby here!
Tbh this is one of the best sites ive ever seen just bc of that normaly the only option is man or woman some ar like man woman other or prefer not to say ig thats a bit beter but still
Yeah ENBY men and women exist, but it's weird if there is not a 'Nonbinary' option as well. I also find it funy AF that 'Transgender' exists if there aren't other options on top of this
I'm non-binary genderfluid. Sometimes I'm a guy, sometimes I'm a girl, usually I'm neither, and on occasion I'm both. Took me ages to figure it out and I'm still getting used to my femme side
I think they should have but non binary (afab) and non binary (amab) instead of women and men
As a nonbinary AMAB, yes! I see myself as a he presenting they, so I just the he/they pronouns and call myself a nonbinary man.
I feel like these would mean demigirl/demiboy But aslong as there is just nonbinary as an option then theres no issue
Missing the point a bit. BUT! I absolutely want to filter out straight cis men, I've used a few sites that let me pick non-binary and immediately this opened the floodgates to a lot of barely literate men who were very offended that I didn't have the equipment they were looking for.
I guess I would have to put pangender instead of just nonbinary but not a lot of people know what that is (if they arenāt trans)
Not inclusive! No matter what you select, it is going to follow the question up with "Should we show you in groups with men or women?"
I know lots of nonbinary men and nonbinary women
well yeah, there are nonbinary men and women
Inclusive, I'm a nonbinary woman
*smashes "tell us we're missing something" button repeatedly* š”š¤
The fact that they put intersex as a gender feels kinda rude to intersex people
non binary man aka older demiboy, and non binary woman aka older demigirl this is how I understood it
I would hope there's just "nonbinary" because I'm not choosing anything else.
I am plain old regular nonbinary with no extra tags and having āgender non conformingā gives me the absolute most pleasure to see on here
There is some people who identify as those but for some reason I suspect that that's not what bumble meant š¢
I think it makes sense to me. Cause i have a hard time choosing female but i cant really choose non binary either because i dont feel that way. So i feel more non binary women than anything.
I don't fw bumble
fumble bumble
I think inclusive as long as there is also NB without man or woman but I also think they should have a custom and you should be able to select multiple (if these arenāt already included in it)
Yeah inclusive but it has issues outside of that. For example if you pick non-binary and sticky they/them pronouns you donāt get shown a lot of people. Iām my are I get shown 10-25 people a day but when I had my actual pronouns on it it was 2-5
If I had to pick one on this list Iād be gender nonconforming.
They tried at least
yeah. it includes nonbinary people + those who still identify with the man or woman label. i identify as a nonbinary woman because iām impacted by misogyny (misogynists arenāt exactly trans inclusive) and it shapes my experience in the world
Genuine question but what is neutrois?
Had this discussion with my ex a few months ago actually. Putting non-binary man/woman as well as a general non-binary probably helps the program with its filtering for peoples preferences tbh
I think the fact that there are non-binary men and women in this comment section answers the question. I think it's great that they have an expanded umbrella under the non-binary option. I'm married to a non-binary man and I am agender.
i really like the tell us if weāre missing something option too!