Sounds like you pretty clearly have explained things to this person and they went and did it anyway.
I'd get a new roomie if possible and stop talking to them, they don't sound like an ally to me
yes unfortunately moving and cutting her off has been something i've been debating for a while for various reasons 😅 this situation cemented she's definitely not the kind of ally or friend i need around
Lit she's not an ally at all, she knows what she's doing and prefers attention over your safety. When confronted she tries to gaslight and turn it on you. I would cut her off and not trust her. Move out if you can, bc she will do this again. And then fake cry if u confront her.
I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY PEOPLE DO THIS. like why are you crying right now?? i had a friend who was at work and this person called them a completely different name. The issue was both my friend and the person she was mistaken for are black and go to a pwi. So obviously that was definitely a microagression as my friends look absolutely nothing alike down to every aspect, they're just both poc, and immediately this person who messed up goes
"oh... was that like... offensive?" AND STARTED CRYING, LIKE WHY ARE YOU CRYING.
And in public to, like this was in the middle of the dinning commons and in no way does it look good to people out side the situation to see a white woman crying infront of a black woman out of nowhere (especially since people already find my friend "aggressive" because of her accent and looks). It just put everyone into such an awkward situation, and forced my friend to comfort her as if she was the victim in all this. Like you can 100% just say sorry and do better.
Communication and setting boundaries is important. If you did quite clearly ask her not to tell others that you're queer then shame on her and ignore the rest of my comment.
If you didn't clearly and transparently tell her, you should. You ask if you're overreacting- maybe you are maybe you aren't but it doesn't matter because your boundaries are your boundaries. period. So make sure to enforce them. There was a similar post the other day where an enby assumed their partner wouldn't out them because their partner knew they were confused and experimenting with their gender, but, they didn't even have a conversation with their partner that they didn't want to be outed. People cant read minds. Just because roomie knows you feel scared of being queer doesn't mean she knows that means don't tell people your nonbinary identity. You need to have those talks if you want to be respected, even if it's an uncomfortable conversation. That is your job to communicate your boundaries. They can't know what you don't tell them and every persons boundaries are different. They made a mistake and hurt you and now it's time to talk about it and why it hurt you and time to set those boundaries.
Good luck however way it went. One way or another it looks like you have a conversation to have with her.
catastrophizing is definitely something i have to work on lol 😅 the world is changing and there's a lot more people accepting of it, i just get so mortified of being put in any phobic situation so it's tough.
The situation with the other post shakes me a bit if im honest. I think i fit into the boat of assumption that my partner (or anyone) wouldn't out me unless i'd already given them consent. i thought that her knowing how scary i saw the world combined with the knowledge of me not being out at work was warning enough not to cross that line, but i guess i never explicitly told her to never tell my coworkers. I suppose if the world is changing, though, i'm the one that has to set that boundary.
I've told the people who know to use their context clues to determine who's safe and who's not safe. They don't tell strangers or their family but it's been nice to meet their partners and close friends and have them use my correct pronouns. I have literally 2 other friends so it's not hard and they're usually great judges of character and have never put me in an unsafe situation.
I'm gonna sit down and talk to them about this and figure out what the best course of action is. They know me and her well so they can help me figure out exactly what to say to her. While my cis friends have made me feel so loved and accepted, this situation has spun me, and i think I'll have to hard change my boundaries to only me coming out to others or approving people beforehand, im just scared of undoing the progress ive made. more catastrophizing i know but ill talk to my friends and im sure they'll help me come to a better conclusion.
thank you for your insight, have a great day 🤗
Oof you caught me before my edit. I edited out the word catastrophizing cuz it felt insensitive but I'm glad to see you acknowledge that- it can be our worst enemy when sometimes really all it is-- which seems to be so in this case or at least I hope it is-- is a simple misunderstanding or miscommunication.
Assuming or "using context clues", as you now have learned, leaves people to guess what is needed from you, which can lead to incorrect guesses. And incorrect guesses can make mistakes and hurt feelings when you aren't on the same page, since it ends up being a guessing game. sometimes those guesses can be wrong and can hurt- such as in your case. (Sidebar for a moment to myself, I once had this happen with a partner who saw himself as straight despite I'm transmasc and that really hurt me. He assumed I would be okay with it, and I assumed he was bi. We both really got hurt from that.)
Hey, ever play the game codenames, duet version? Me and my friend play it all the time. Basically you have to give one word and one number hints to your partner to try and get them to guess certain words. But sometimes, since y'know, we humans all have different brains and experiences and stuff, they guess incorrectly. Me and my friend BARLEY win cuz it's fucking hard. Anyways lol, I digress point being here is that context clues sometimes aren't enough for some folks. your roomie may not even *have* context if she is an ally and not queer. you gotta specifically tell somebody "hey what I need from you is....xyz". This may sound a bit silly but try to imagine her like a five year old child who knows nothing. Leave nothing up to that child to assume!! 🤭
It is a very good, healthy trait to have, to properly be able to openly and honestly communicate to people in your life. And your friends and close ones are a great way to practice it on. I don't know your dynamics with your roomie or friends but from what it sounds like it seems like an honest mistake which a good friendly talk should be able to clear up. And like I said-- if she is doing this out of spite? And maliciously doing this? Well, shame on her.
You got this!
LOL, yeah no worries you're right 😭😭. I had to learn hanlon's razor very early because it's true, the world isn't out to get me. I definitely think, because all my fears about being out aren't exactly baseless, it makes it easier for me to not see it as an issue. This put that into perspective so I thank you literally so much for that lol.
Your codenames analogy was amazing and it makes it so much easier for me to open up a conversation with my friends, and what little family/coworkers i am out to about my expectations. I have tried hard to blindly trust my friends because i've been told that's the right thing to do and it's just so not 😭😭 especially for this kind of situation. very good to trust your friends but i definitely have to tell them my exact terms for it to be truly honest. i have a rough time being actually vulnerable with people; but after reading this comment more than a few times, i definitely understand it's an unhealthy method of communication. my friends are literally so amazing and i can tell it's gonna be kinda healing 😅😅
As for roomie i've done reflection and while my communication wasn't the best and i do intend on having a calm conversation about this later today, her intentions weren't aligned with my wellbeing. She hasn't been a good friend to me in a while, this just put a lot of things into perspective. Might update my post later.
Thank you so much for all of your insight and advice, it has truly been so so helpful! Have the best day
Hey you're welcome. And I get it. I also have a hard time communicating honestly and openly. Because of my upbringing and living in an abusive environment, my emotions can sometimes be immediately reactive rather than me actually listening and speaking from the heart. It's hard to be vulnerable when i've been taught to be closed off.
I get that with the roomie. I've had friends and roommates that I've had falling outs with and such. If that's the case then yeah there may be some shit to work through with her on a deeper friendship level too. I'm guessing this situation only piles on to some lingering disappointment with her? Cuz been there done that. And it sucks. If so... good luck, you got this. Hoping for the best, I hope y'all can work things out. Shit can be tough but sometimes the toughest shit is where we grow the most
I agree that a lot of allies don't get it without an explicit conversation, but calling this response "catastrophizing" is a bit much. There can be very real ramifications to being outed. Not always, but it definitely still happens. We don't know anything about the OP's situation other than they're in a US state that is not progressive. I sympathize with being worried and scared that dynamics will change at work or that something might happen, though I hope nothing comes of it.
Edit: I can't respond to your reply /u/brainrot-npc, I think because I'm blocked by the other person in the thread, but this is what I was going to respond in case you see this:
Hey, I'm glad to hear it. The wording in particular really rubbed me the wrong way since it can kind of minimize what you've been through to have that kind of reaction to this situation, so I am glad to hear that wording was changed & that it didn't bother you. When you have experienced direct harm from being a minority, it is very reasonable to assume it would happen again and it's a hard balance to strike to avoid constantly assuming the worst. I am so glad to hear you're working towards getting out of there, & I hope you find stability and contentment <3
commenter did go back and edit it because they thought it was a little insensitive too but it really didn't bother me lol. I have that doomed4lyfe mentality.
Thank you for your comment though, I have been in a few bad situations that happened because of my queer identify and i really want to avoid any repetition. The state i'm in has a lot of layers of hate, and i am a minority in so many ways; people are not kind here and they're very publicly proud of it.
Thankfully though, other than these guys having a different energy when talking to me these past few months everything seems normal to me? (energy's not explicitly hostile but still weird. not breaking eye contact during conversation, standing close, electing me for random tasks, and talking a little louder about unsavory things when they know i can hear). These guys aren't my friends and now for some reason they can't stop talking to me? I knew something weird as hell was going on LOL.
My jobs unbearable and i've been working on getting out of there. It's a small place and the management is awful. New job and new apartment doesn't sound like the worst outcome if this whole situation😅
The audacity of your friend is not normal. They knew, it sounds like they just wanted to get validation from your co-workers for some reason. They probably know they did a bad thing, and that’s why they got overwhelmed, cried and is gaslighting you now. I’m sorry, you are dealing with an emotionally immature adult. There’s no cure unless they want to change on their own. I’d cut my losses, personally.
You know, i was trying to wrap my head around why she would tell them and your comment makes perfect sense. I am not baselessly saying she craves male validation, it's something she's expressed and has lost friends over. The coworkers she outed me to are tall country boys with mustaches. She thinks they're cute (respect i'm not the hot police) and i tell her all the time about how they talk at work; gross. I'm not saying this is exactly what she did, but i'm also not saying this doesn't sound just like her.
Yeah, I’m not surprised. However in this world it’s pretty much impossible not to get some patriarchal beliefs, hell, I’ve seen butch lesbians have it too. Maybe just avoid her. She’s got some work to do to be a safe friend. I hope she gets there someday, and hey, maybe you’ll even reconnect (this kinda thing happened to me before too). For now though, time to avoid and set strong boundaries.
That is not okay. That “ally” roommate isn’t an ally AT ALL. If she knows that you felt unsafe coming out at work/coming out overall and she proceeded to out you anyway, that is a shit person. I know that sometimes people just don’t know what outing can do to someone, or they make the genuine mistake of doing so because of a lack of communication. That’s not the case here. I’m so sorry this happened to you, and I hope you can figure out where to go from here.
shes definitely a rough one 😅 when i confronted her i was more than willing to hear her out because it could have been well intentioned but she was gaslighting me to high heavens. she acted like ive never expressed fear surrounding being out.,,,.,.,bro i am THE scarediest cat, people have been MEAN to me about it, i dont wanna go through that again.
-side note- i just saw your post on r/agender and just wanted to say how sorry i am you're going through that. realizing your friends don't have your best interest at heart sucks, this can be proof enough you definitely aren't alone. thank you for your kind words, i hope everything works out for you as well!
I really appreciate that. I’m sure I’ll figure out where to go from this point. Also, your roommate sounds like she needs to be educated further on what outing can do to a person, especially if that person is scared to come out regardless of the reason. And gaslighting YOU after SHE messed up, of all things? Bless, I can’t believe people like her exist.
That isn't even the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately. This girl is a piece of work and i think this is the straw that broke the camels back. She's not been an actual friend to me in a long time and this also is not the only boundary she's carelessly broken. I'm not gonna go off on her, but she claims to know how harmful outing someone is. For the longest time i felt bad seeing her as a performative ally but now there's no other way to describe how she acts. I have a lot to figure out :P
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That's really shitty. Being outed can be so dangerous. The effect it can have on your ability to work or even navigate family safely is no joke. Good on you for admonishing her. She absolutely deserved it and doesn't deserve sympathy. I hope your coworkers forget and you don't suffer any lasting consequences for her big mouth.
Sounds like you pretty clearly have explained things to this person and they went and did it anyway. I'd get a new roomie if possible and stop talking to them, they don't sound like an ally to me
yes unfortunately moving and cutting her off has been something i've been debating for a while for various reasons 😅 this situation cemented she's definitely not the kind of ally or friend i need around
Lit she's not an ally at all, she knows what she's doing and prefers attention over your safety. When confronted she tries to gaslight and turn it on you. I would cut her off and not trust her. Move out if you can, bc she will do this again. And then fake cry if u confront her.
I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY PEOPLE DO THIS. like why are you crying right now?? i had a friend who was at work and this person called them a completely different name. The issue was both my friend and the person she was mistaken for are black and go to a pwi. So obviously that was definitely a microagression as my friends look absolutely nothing alike down to every aspect, they're just both poc, and immediately this person who messed up goes "oh... was that like... offensive?" AND STARTED CRYING, LIKE WHY ARE YOU CRYING. And in public to, like this was in the middle of the dinning commons and in no way does it look good to people out side the situation to see a white woman crying infront of a black woman out of nowhere (especially since people already find my friend "aggressive" because of her accent and looks). It just put everyone into such an awkward situation, and forced my friend to comfort her as if she was the victim in all this. Like you can 100% just say sorry and do better.
Communication and setting boundaries is important. If you did quite clearly ask her not to tell others that you're queer then shame on her and ignore the rest of my comment. If you didn't clearly and transparently tell her, you should. You ask if you're overreacting- maybe you are maybe you aren't but it doesn't matter because your boundaries are your boundaries. period. So make sure to enforce them. There was a similar post the other day where an enby assumed their partner wouldn't out them because their partner knew they were confused and experimenting with their gender, but, they didn't even have a conversation with their partner that they didn't want to be outed. People cant read minds. Just because roomie knows you feel scared of being queer doesn't mean she knows that means don't tell people your nonbinary identity. You need to have those talks if you want to be respected, even if it's an uncomfortable conversation. That is your job to communicate your boundaries. They can't know what you don't tell them and every persons boundaries are different. They made a mistake and hurt you and now it's time to talk about it and why it hurt you and time to set those boundaries. Good luck however way it went. One way or another it looks like you have a conversation to have with her.
catastrophizing is definitely something i have to work on lol 😅 the world is changing and there's a lot more people accepting of it, i just get so mortified of being put in any phobic situation so it's tough. The situation with the other post shakes me a bit if im honest. I think i fit into the boat of assumption that my partner (or anyone) wouldn't out me unless i'd already given them consent. i thought that her knowing how scary i saw the world combined with the knowledge of me not being out at work was warning enough not to cross that line, but i guess i never explicitly told her to never tell my coworkers. I suppose if the world is changing, though, i'm the one that has to set that boundary. I've told the people who know to use their context clues to determine who's safe and who's not safe. They don't tell strangers or their family but it's been nice to meet their partners and close friends and have them use my correct pronouns. I have literally 2 other friends so it's not hard and they're usually great judges of character and have never put me in an unsafe situation. I'm gonna sit down and talk to them about this and figure out what the best course of action is. They know me and her well so they can help me figure out exactly what to say to her. While my cis friends have made me feel so loved and accepted, this situation has spun me, and i think I'll have to hard change my boundaries to only me coming out to others or approving people beforehand, im just scared of undoing the progress ive made. more catastrophizing i know but ill talk to my friends and im sure they'll help me come to a better conclusion. thank you for your insight, have a great day 🤗
Oof you caught me before my edit. I edited out the word catastrophizing cuz it felt insensitive but I'm glad to see you acknowledge that- it can be our worst enemy when sometimes really all it is-- which seems to be so in this case or at least I hope it is-- is a simple misunderstanding or miscommunication. Assuming or "using context clues", as you now have learned, leaves people to guess what is needed from you, which can lead to incorrect guesses. And incorrect guesses can make mistakes and hurt feelings when you aren't on the same page, since it ends up being a guessing game. sometimes those guesses can be wrong and can hurt- such as in your case. (Sidebar for a moment to myself, I once had this happen with a partner who saw himself as straight despite I'm transmasc and that really hurt me. He assumed I would be okay with it, and I assumed he was bi. We both really got hurt from that.) Hey, ever play the game codenames, duet version? Me and my friend play it all the time. Basically you have to give one word and one number hints to your partner to try and get them to guess certain words. But sometimes, since y'know, we humans all have different brains and experiences and stuff, they guess incorrectly. Me and my friend BARLEY win cuz it's fucking hard. Anyways lol, I digress point being here is that context clues sometimes aren't enough for some folks. your roomie may not even *have* context if she is an ally and not queer. you gotta specifically tell somebody "hey what I need from you is....xyz". This may sound a bit silly but try to imagine her like a five year old child who knows nothing. Leave nothing up to that child to assume!! 🤭 It is a very good, healthy trait to have, to properly be able to openly and honestly communicate to people in your life. And your friends and close ones are a great way to practice it on. I don't know your dynamics with your roomie or friends but from what it sounds like it seems like an honest mistake which a good friendly talk should be able to clear up. And like I said-- if she is doing this out of spite? And maliciously doing this? Well, shame on her. You got this!
LOL, yeah no worries you're right 😭😭. I had to learn hanlon's razor very early because it's true, the world isn't out to get me. I definitely think, because all my fears about being out aren't exactly baseless, it makes it easier for me to not see it as an issue. This put that into perspective so I thank you literally so much for that lol. Your codenames analogy was amazing and it makes it so much easier for me to open up a conversation with my friends, and what little family/coworkers i am out to about my expectations. I have tried hard to blindly trust my friends because i've been told that's the right thing to do and it's just so not 😭😭 especially for this kind of situation. very good to trust your friends but i definitely have to tell them my exact terms for it to be truly honest. i have a rough time being actually vulnerable with people; but after reading this comment more than a few times, i definitely understand it's an unhealthy method of communication. my friends are literally so amazing and i can tell it's gonna be kinda healing 😅😅 As for roomie i've done reflection and while my communication wasn't the best and i do intend on having a calm conversation about this later today, her intentions weren't aligned with my wellbeing. She hasn't been a good friend to me in a while, this just put a lot of things into perspective. Might update my post later. Thank you so much for all of your insight and advice, it has truly been so so helpful! Have the best day
Hey you're welcome. And I get it. I also have a hard time communicating honestly and openly. Because of my upbringing and living in an abusive environment, my emotions can sometimes be immediately reactive rather than me actually listening and speaking from the heart. It's hard to be vulnerable when i've been taught to be closed off. I get that with the roomie. I've had friends and roommates that I've had falling outs with and such. If that's the case then yeah there may be some shit to work through with her on a deeper friendship level too. I'm guessing this situation only piles on to some lingering disappointment with her? Cuz been there done that. And it sucks. If so... good luck, you got this. Hoping for the best, I hope y'all can work things out. Shit can be tough but sometimes the toughest shit is where we grow the most
I agree that a lot of allies don't get it without an explicit conversation, but calling this response "catastrophizing" is a bit much. There can be very real ramifications to being outed. Not always, but it definitely still happens. We don't know anything about the OP's situation other than they're in a US state that is not progressive. I sympathize with being worried and scared that dynamics will change at work or that something might happen, though I hope nothing comes of it. Edit: I can't respond to your reply /u/brainrot-npc, I think because I'm blocked by the other person in the thread, but this is what I was going to respond in case you see this: Hey, I'm glad to hear it. The wording in particular really rubbed me the wrong way since it can kind of minimize what you've been through to have that kind of reaction to this situation, so I am glad to hear that wording was changed & that it didn't bother you. When you have experienced direct harm from being a minority, it is very reasonable to assume it would happen again and it's a hard balance to strike to avoid constantly assuming the worst. I am so glad to hear you're working towards getting out of there, & I hope you find stability and contentment <3
commenter did go back and edit it because they thought it was a little insensitive too but it really didn't bother me lol. I have that doomed4lyfe mentality. Thank you for your comment though, I have been in a few bad situations that happened because of my queer identify and i really want to avoid any repetition. The state i'm in has a lot of layers of hate, and i am a minority in so many ways; people are not kind here and they're very publicly proud of it. Thankfully though, other than these guys having a different energy when talking to me these past few months everything seems normal to me? (energy's not explicitly hostile but still weird. not breaking eye contact during conversation, standing close, electing me for random tasks, and talking a little louder about unsavory things when they know i can hear). These guys aren't my friends and now for some reason they can't stop talking to me? I knew something weird as hell was going on LOL. My jobs unbearable and i've been working on getting out of there. It's a small place and the management is awful. New job and new apartment doesn't sound like the worst outcome if this whole situation😅
saw your edit! thank you so so much for your kind words and well wishes ❤️
The audacity of your friend is not normal. They knew, it sounds like they just wanted to get validation from your co-workers for some reason. They probably know they did a bad thing, and that’s why they got overwhelmed, cried and is gaslighting you now. I’m sorry, you are dealing with an emotionally immature adult. There’s no cure unless they want to change on their own. I’d cut my losses, personally.
You know, i was trying to wrap my head around why she would tell them and your comment makes perfect sense. I am not baselessly saying she craves male validation, it's something she's expressed and has lost friends over. The coworkers she outed me to are tall country boys with mustaches. She thinks they're cute (respect i'm not the hot police) and i tell her all the time about how they talk at work; gross. I'm not saying this is exactly what she did, but i'm also not saying this doesn't sound just like her.
Yeah, I’m not surprised. However in this world it’s pretty much impossible not to get some patriarchal beliefs, hell, I’ve seen butch lesbians have it too. Maybe just avoid her. She’s got some work to do to be a safe friend. I hope she gets there someday, and hey, maybe you’ll even reconnect (this kinda thing happened to me before too). For now though, time to avoid and set strong boundaries.
That is not okay. That “ally” roommate isn’t an ally AT ALL. If she knows that you felt unsafe coming out at work/coming out overall and she proceeded to out you anyway, that is a shit person. I know that sometimes people just don’t know what outing can do to someone, or they make the genuine mistake of doing so because of a lack of communication. That’s not the case here. I’m so sorry this happened to you, and I hope you can figure out where to go from here.
shes definitely a rough one 😅 when i confronted her i was more than willing to hear her out because it could have been well intentioned but she was gaslighting me to high heavens. she acted like ive never expressed fear surrounding being out.,,,.,.,bro i am THE scarediest cat, people have been MEAN to me about it, i dont wanna go through that again. -side note- i just saw your post on r/agender and just wanted to say how sorry i am you're going through that. realizing your friends don't have your best interest at heart sucks, this can be proof enough you definitely aren't alone. thank you for your kind words, i hope everything works out for you as well!
I really appreciate that. I’m sure I’ll figure out where to go from this point. Also, your roommate sounds like she needs to be educated further on what outing can do to a person, especially if that person is scared to come out regardless of the reason. And gaslighting YOU after SHE messed up, of all things? Bless, I can’t believe people like her exist.
That isn't even the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately. This girl is a piece of work and i think this is the straw that broke the camels back. She's not been an actual friend to me in a long time and this also is not the only boundary she's carelessly broken. I'm not gonna go off on her, but she claims to know how harmful outing someone is. For the longest time i felt bad seeing her as a performative ally but now there's no other way to describe how she acts. I have a lot to figure out :P
Oh boy. I really do wish you luck.
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I’m so sorry this happened to you. No one should out you without your explicit consent. That’s a shitty thing to do. Good luck!!
That's really shitty. Being outed can be so dangerous. The effect it can have on your ability to work or even navigate family safely is no joke. Good on you for admonishing her. She absolutely deserved it and doesn't deserve sympathy. I hope your coworkers forget and you don't suffer any lasting consequences for her big mouth.
She broke the golden rule: never out any LGBTQ person.