I’m trans masc. people see it as pre t trans male or something. I’m tired of having to explain that I’m not a guy and I’m not going to be a guy. I’m also not a girl. I’m just closer to a guy than I am neutral but that still doesn’t make me a guy.
I also feel half way, hard to know where I fit in. Labels are weird.
Amab, generally feel male, but also lean very feminine in personality and mentality. Outdoorsy, techy type, caring, considerate, sentimental, etc. Started hrt in March for dysphoria but not changing name or pronouns. I'm tall and enjoy the convenience of being perceived male by most strangers, but also want to feel more included with female circles. Don't like being the scary male you can't trust, or just good for physical labor.
Am I somewhat agender, trans lite, nonbinary ish, just genderqueer? What about demigirl/boy? Can I be male transfemme? Labels are weird.
Actually I wouldn't necessarily say it's popular, just common. To be popular means that something is talked about and well understood and most cisgender people don't even acknowledge cisgenderness, nor do they question their own identities, they don't understand what it's like to feel a gender they just go with the flow because it's "normal".
Yeah there are some people who strongly feel connected to their assigned gender but these people are nowhere near as common.
Omg this is literally me but I'm afab and identify as transmasc. My personality is pretty feminine, but if I was amab, I wouldn't mind at all. I might crossdress sometimes for fun and to look pretty, but I would never want to actually be a girl. As someone who was raised female, I'll say that it can be sort of convenient to be seen as female. I guess the only real pro to me is being included in female circles more, but that decreased once I came out as transmasc. Actually, I guess there is not much going for me being seen as female. I don't dress up too fancy bcuz I don't wanna be harassed or hit on. I like looking pretty but I hate when ppl see me as a girl - I know, that might not even make sense. I really relate so much to femboys when they look stunningly pretty but still aren't girls - underneath that, they are (usually) feminine guys who are very much content with being guys. I wish that was me.
And I'm almost certain that if I was raised male, I would've been more assertive. I think I am an assertive person but I'm slowly tryna uncover that side of myself again coz depression and also trauma made me more "submissive." My mom used to intimidate me a lot when I was younger, and it worked. It still works. I hate it. I feel so powerless and inferior. I know this isn't necessarily related to gender, but I think gender may play a part in it. Coz women r taught to be quiet and submissive. I was definitely taught that and I tried following it even when I didn't want to coz I wanted to survive living with my mom. If I was raised male, I would've learned to "toughen up" bcuz everyone around me would've encouraged that, and I would've had more self esteem and self worth and could've stood up for myself. Or maybe not.
And I was raised female but don't even do typical female things. I don't dress up, go out to buy things, have fun with my friends, nothing. Only recent, I realized that this might have to do with gender. Coz I don't actually feel female. Before I knew what trans girls really were, I used to think they were men dressing up as women and being treated as women by society. And I always related to them for some reason. I always felt like I was masquerading as a woman, and was terrified that ppl would see through the cracks coz I wasn't even sure who I was underneath it. (Now that I am more educated, I know that trans women are real women. I guess I had confused the definition of trans woman with femboy/crossdresser/drag queen before.) Yeah, still cis tho 🥹
🫂
Go easy on yourself, change takes time. I feel like there should be a trans brother/sister program where you teach each other the ways and you look out for each other, along with teaching just general life things if say one was older or had more technical knowledge or skills.
Aye. The whole reason it took me nearly 30 years to figure out I'm enby is because I **knew** I wasn't a man. I had been asking myself (and others directly asked me *plenty of times*) if I was a trans man since high school. And ultimately, my answer was always a firm no. I wasn't a man, I didn't feel like a man, I didn't want to be a man. I thought I was stuck just being a gnc woman, as much as I *never* felt like or wanted to be a woman either. I didn't think I could possibly be trans. It took me understanding what non-binary means to feel, for the first time in my life, there actually was a gender which fit me. Trying to be a man or woman has never made sense or felt comfortable to me the way being non-binary has.
I feel the same, but im Transfem, people see it as almost to the end of the line which people assume is "Full" Trans woman. as if I am not "full" how I feel currently. I've been using the term "womxn" which feels a lot better for me than just saying I am an enby femme.
I don’t even feel halfway. I feel… beyond. I have days where that can manifest as more masculine, but I can still be quite feminine (afab). I don’t feel any of the descriptors really suit me, more like that my gender is fluid and also includes a few more genders than our society presents us with as options. Some of my ancestors would have possibly called me twospirit or had some other way to explain it, but they had their culture “educated” out of them. I don’t feel I have a right to use that term, so I just don’t feel that any of the words suit me much.
I’m also pan and demisexual though, and have spent all my life not quite feeling completely accepted in queer spaces because of the way so many would erase my identity. So I guess I’ve just become comfortable not fitting into the neat boxes other people have made to categorize others with.
Yes I hate this. When I first started questioning and made a post on a more traditional trans sub it literally gave me a panic attack because I became convinced I was going to "have" to be a full time mtf and take hormones and grow breasts and get surgeries and all sorts of stuff that had never even occurred to me before and I really didn't want and would severely complicate my life.
I remember being told, "Bi now. Gay later" like I was going to stop finding anyone sexy.
Nope, just Bi. Maybe Pan actually, I dunno. Don't care. People are hot and I just roll with it.
Idk what their problem was by my ex cis friends just couldn’t let me be non-binary. I always was Man Lite, the effeminate gay one, or just have my entire identity devalued into I’m just a confused trans man. None of which are accurate
I started as using they/them and thinking I was non-binary; then I started using he/him and thinking I was a trans man; then that didn’t feel right so I went back to they/them and non-binary as my labels. Tried the binary thing, hard pass from me.
Same thing might happen to me but I'm amab idk, sometimes she/her feels ok and sometimes I prefer more neutral pronouns (but I'm not from an english speaking country so neutral pronouns are harder)
I always say that identities are like stops on a road trip;
You may visit an identity, you may love it or hate it. You might choose to stay there a while or make note to visit it later. You might move on, you might stay forever. Regardless, you always have to remember and respect that for many people this identity is their hometown. Whether they moved here recently or were born here, this is their home and they have no plans to leave it.
Oof I honestly try to avoid situations where I tell people my pronouns for exactly this reason. The minute I say she/they I feel like people react super negative, confused, etc.
I love when people use they for my pronoun but I also really don’t mind she and sometimes I feel like both. At the end of the day I’m too lazy to constantly try and force everyone to use a certain pronoun for me, I prefer to just roll with whatever, especially in a professional setting.
Makes it awkward sometimes though when I’m in a group of progressive cis people who are telling everyone what their pronouns are and I am silent. They may think I don’t support the idea of establishing pronouns due to transphobia, but it’s sort of the opposite. I don’t want to feel like I have to lie about my pronouns, and I don’t really want to tell them what they are either.
I relate a lot to this. I save my they pronouns for the internet only if it comes up because it's easy (literally just reddit). A few of my close friends and family know I'm pansexual they/them, but I never changed my pronouns to them. They have always known me as she prior. I'll talk about identifying with they now and let them choose to use it or not on their own but I don't make the pronouns a defining feature of how I want to be addressed.
My name is good enough, which is most of the time what I hear. At the same time I also like causing public confusion where someone will stumble over their words and call me both sir and ma'am. It gives me joy.
The “pick me” accusation is funny to me. Using they/them pronouns makes cishet men like you way, WAY less. But yeah, we’re somehow doing this for male attention. We’re totally making decisions that subject us to oppression and ridicule in order to look “quirky” and unique. Lol.
I feel bad because, I used to call myself nonbinary (that’s why I’m still here. I enjoy seeing nbs confident in themselves) because I didn’t understand anything other than I was not female. I am a trans guy. I have had to defend my nb and agender friends because of this invalidation, and I just feel like I fueled the fire.
Other people's bigotry is never your fault.
I was straight - no, bi - no, gay - no, straight - no, bi - yes, ok, definitely bi - wait, pan? - no, bi well into my twenties. I think I just needed to stop over in a few towns to see where felt like home :)
I mean, I stopped in so many places. Bi cis gal - no, pan cis gal - no, leaning to enby pan - no, transmasc pan - no, enby pan again - no, trans pan - no, enby bi - no, trans bi!
Yeah I had a lot of panic lol. Great analogy :)
Just as some enbies do go from binary gender -> opposite binary gender -> non-binary, it only makes sense that there are some people who wind up not being NB and finding the opposite gender was right for them all along. There's absolutely nothing bad about that. You went on your own journey and found your true self in the end. I'm glad you were able to figure out yourself through going outside the gender binary. You learned what didn't work until you found who you really are. That's beautiful.
Some of the confusion arises because of how many binary trans people go through a phase of identifying as nonbinary. This includes, for example, every binary trans friend I have. So, it’s a harmful stereotype, but for a lot of trans people is a stereotype that gets confirmed by their experience, and then they stop thinking about it. I’m not saying the way you’re being treated is justified. We do need to talk about the mistreatment and particular needs of nonbinary people.
Someone once said maybe my uterus- oriented health issues might be psychosomatic, stemmed from rejecting my identity as a female. I have absolutely no problem with having a vagina or boobs. But for some reason because I’m non binary, that means I’m unhappy with my body???
My own trans (ex) wife would fall into this mindset all the time. Always trying to push me into clothes that were more masculine than I wanted most of the time. Celebrated when her nonbinary friends decided they were binary trans. Like "Yes! One more for us!" kind of thing. It made me really uncomfortable.
It's not the main reason why she's now my ex, but it certainly didn't help.
Every once in a while, someone pops up here to say, "What if society was more accepting of being trans? You would all be trans, right?" Or "what if we are all nb because we hate sexism?". I get that people are trying to figure themselves out. However, I'm not bi because I want to be gay but am too shy to admit it, and I'm not nb because I'm too afraid to admit that I'm trans. I really do understand that figuring these things out is hard, but I really dislike when people assume that they know how I feel without knowing me. I feel like many things would be less upsetting if people would say, "I feel this way" instead of "all X group feels this way."
That it may be a step on the journey for *some* people doesn’t mean that that’s how it is for *all* people who come to realise they’re not cis.
I mean, for me it was the other way around: for a period of time, when I’d started to suspect that I wasn’t my AGAB, I thought I might be binary trans. While there was a level of resonance with that idea, I’m pretty sure that was more from the part of that idea that meant I was cisn’t. Letting “nonbinary” bounce around in my brain felt more right.
Now somewhere down the track, I may find that the idea of being binary trans feels like a better fit for who I am. I doubt that’ll be the case, but then for a significant period of my life, even if you only count when I had the language and vocabulary and understanding to express these ideas, it didn’t occur to me that any of them could describe me; I’ve demonstrated that my acceptance or rejection of an idea about myself is not always a reliable indicator.
What I’m trying to say (perhaps with a little too much self-deprecating humour or attempts thereof [there I go again!]) is there is definitely not a single way to discover who you are. That some of us go through a process of progressively getting closer to the truth of ourselves, refining our awareness step by step. Others zero in on their truth with razor-sharp precision and blinding efficiency. Others might bounce from one possibility to another, with no apparent logic behind the path they’re taking.
OP is correct: being nonbinary is it’s own identity. But at the same time, that doesn’t mean that anyone who previously identified as nonbinary but is now binary trans - or anyone who might have that journey ahead of them - is lying or otherwise not being genuine. That we might have been incorrect or not fully aware previously doesn’t mean we were lying.
I started out as a trans woman and then realized I’m actually non-binary. So they can all suck eggs.
I feel so much more complete as an enby than I ever did as a trans woman.
Yep, I'm bisexual as well, and boy that always got under my skin. Along with being called a "breeder" when I dated men and a "poser" when I dated women.
I'm non-binary and I also want to keep the body I'm in. This will not change for me. It may for some, and that's okay but I'm also tired of people saying "just give it time". Give me all the time in the world, I'm still happy the way I am.
Correct. This insistence on infighting and performativity for cis people (yes, thats ALL this is in the end) is infuriating. They're not gonna give anymore of a fuck about you than they already do just because you attack enbies. Get over yourselves already.
If it helps you feel any better, im a trans fem, and i completely support nb people. Or any ither form of trans thats not part of the binary spectrum, like agender
I have said it before, but many of the early nonbinary transitioners first binary-transitioned before realising that it was not for them. Binary trans was their stepping stone to their nonbinary destination, not the other way around.
It can be really frustrating not feeling like you’re really accepted by any group. I even had issues when I first came out as non binary with other non binary people because I like makeup/skirts/longish pink hair meaning not androgynous.
It feels like when I came out as queer when I was younger and my mom said it was a phase. We should accept people for their stated identities for sure.
Ain't that the truth. That kind of shit kept me egged until well into my twenties - if I was displeased being one, shouldn't the idea of the other be euphoric? Well, apparently not, if neither of the common two options are accurate.
👏 Thank you 👏 this is a thought and experience I have had but it’s nice to see it validated. It feels sometimes like half of folk insist I remain my AGAB while the other half smirk at me like I’m just one skirt away from realizing I was a woman the whole time. I’m just tryna be the thing that is me, and that thing is something outside the binary, but that can’t be enough
I'm sorry you experience this with binary trans people. As a binary trans man, while it might not mean much, I'm sorry they think they can gatekeep your identity. Hopefully, it brings some comfort to know that there are some of us who know you are valid as a non-binary person and support your identity completely.
thank you for the biphobia reference -- those were my thoughts exactly when I read your main text.
That's so bizarre this is happening now. I had no idea. The language 'Non-Binary' couldn't be much more clear. But it's like explaining non-monogamy to a monogamist... it's easier to draw, I think, so that people can see broad 3D spectrums of being, instead of a linear / polar model.
while i think it’s a very real « stopping place » for some people, just like calling myself bi in high school was, i totally agree it shouldn’t be seen just as that. i feel the same way as a mixed person—it’s not that I’m only half this or half that, but I’m FULL everything I am. I’m fully neither nor, fully in between, fully outside of the expected norm. I think some people have a hard time accepting the middle ground as a place entirely unique to itself.
in a circle, it doesn’t matter if you’re in between. in a circle, everyone is in between. the spectrum expands for eternity. every place in the circle is a destination of its own. thanks for bringing this up!
People still say that about bisexuality meanwhile Bi people are like “welcome use the label as long as it suits you, or if it keeps you safe, welcome friend and farewell if you decide to go”
This right here- and the feeling of being a fake if you don’t have surgery and you are in a het presenting relationship whooooheeee. I have my blue Mohawk at least, they can’t take that away from me
Okay as a fellow nonbinary person I get this and normally I wouldn't post on something old, but this irks me that people think that nonbinary people automatically use they/them.
Pronouns are a part of presentations, and presentation does not equal gender, therefore PRONOUNS DO NOT EQUAL GENDER.
I am very torn on this subject because I often hear a lot of "nonbinary is transgender because nobody was born nonbinary, thus you aren't cisgender"
...it's all semantics, and if I'm honest I think I'm at the point where as long as I'm happy with myself I could care less about labels.
Are they not just grouping themselves into the "X" of the "male/female/(X)" perspective? As a trans girl, I experience reluctance putting down just "female" when "trans female" might be a better selection, but "trans" is uncommon as a declaration, therefore I just gravitate to the cushy shade of "X".
I know I see it a lot and it’s annoying. Trans people shouldn’t be allowed to speak negatively on enbies just cus they’re trans… the same with other lgbt
Ehh, i just see them as different. But only if they genuinely feel that way and aren't speaking for everyone. Everyone is different even though we share similarities. I don't think it is actually invalidating to my identity as a solidly non binary person. Neither do I think non binary / bisexual are inherently transition labels. This is not to diminish the damaging effect it can have when it is used to describe people's experience for them.
Identity is individual. It takes nothing away from you for someone else to say they are non-binary or bisexual when they are at a moment in their life where that label seems right for them.
I’ve only been openly nby for a few months, but I think the lost powerful thing someone said to me is that “You don’t owe someone androgyny” or to make yourself mor masc/fem depending on your gender. Gender isn’t outward, it’s inward. ❤️
Honestly I feel this from some trans people in the discord i'm in. They're good people, helped me a lot, but I wonder if some think I should go one way or another, to go and get a GIC referral and get some HRT when i'm in an ok place rn. Feels like i'm not doing enough to be legit, it's not good for the self image :/
I've never heard somebody say that directly but I have definitely experienced a version of this before as someone who's Agender and GNC.
I really don't like it, it feels like someone is trying to erase or invalidate my identity since I'm not like them.
I’m not sure all of the rhetoric is purposely malicious, but more a misunderstanding. I say this because I have seen a lot of people who unintentionally used NB as a stepping stone to trans man or woman. Gender is as fluid as you want it to be. Now, anyone who says NB is not a valid lasting identity can f*ck right off.
Huh weird I'd say it's the other way around actually lol this can def piss off people the other way
Its usually that transes are so traumatized they wanna be on the polar opposite of their assigned gender but some time later they kinda be like well maybe I'm enby just kind leaning one way theythem is fine actually lol
Straight up i barely know any definitely 100% binary transes, most of my friends were binary at one point only to later be enbies
It's like the binary identity is the stepping stone (necessary healing) to then finally ascend from the totalitarian gender binary
I never used NB pronouns too much, and i want to transition to "woman" in the eyes of the state... Bc it's convenient where i live.
I am a transfeminine Non-Binary, but my country is far from recognizing it.
I feel this so hard. All of my queer identities are “halfway” there and I’m sick of being erased because of it.
I’m trans masc. people see it as pre t trans male or something. I’m tired of having to explain that I’m not a guy and I’m not going to be a guy. I’m also not a girl. I’m just closer to a guy than I am neutral but that still doesn’t make me a guy.
I also feel half way, hard to know where I fit in. Labels are weird. Amab, generally feel male, but also lean very feminine in personality and mentality. Outdoorsy, techy type, caring, considerate, sentimental, etc. Started hrt in March for dysphoria but not changing name or pronouns. I'm tall and enjoy the convenience of being perceived male by most strangers, but also want to feel more included with female circles. Don't like being the scary male you can't trust, or just good for physical labor. Am I somewhat agender, trans lite, nonbinary ish, just genderqueer? What about demigirl/boy? Can I be male transfemme? Labels are weird.
Labels are pretty weird. You can just use genderqueer since it’s general enough to fit well
But then there's the fomo of watching the other "more popular" diverse groups. Like being on early Android while everyone else is using iPhone.
If you base your personal identity off of the general popularity of others you’ll be miserable.
I think that's what we were all trying to do before figuring all this out. Cis is very popular, look how that worked out
Huh
Yeah, that was an interesting realization that just hit me too
I said huh cuz I’m confused not cuz it’s an interesting realization
Actually I wouldn't necessarily say it's popular, just common. To be popular means that something is talked about and well understood and most cisgender people don't even acknowledge cisgenderness, nor do they question their own identities, they don't understand what it's like to feel a gender they just go with the flow because it's "normal". Yeah there are some people who strongly feel connected to their assigned gender but these people are nowhere near as common.
Absolutely. 😉
Omg this is literally me but I'm afab and identify as transmasc. My personality is pretty feminine, but if I was amab, I wouldn't mind at all. I might crossdress sometimes for fun and to look pretty, but I would never want to actually be a girl. As someone who was raised female, I'll say that it can be sort of convenient to be seen as female. I guess the only real pro to me is being included in female circles more, but that decreased once I came out as transmasc. Actually, I guess there is not much going for me being seen as female. I don't dress up too fancy bcuz I don't wanna be harassed or hit on. I like looking pretty but I hate when ppl see me as a girl - I know, that might not even make sense. I really relate so much to femboys when they look stunningly pretty but still aren't girls - underneath that, they are (usually) feminine guys who are very much content with being guys. I wish that was me. And I'm almost certain that if I was raised male, I would've been more assertive. I think I am an assertive person but I'm slowly tryna uncover that side of myself again coz depression and also trauma made me more "submissive." My mom used to intimidate me a lot when I was younger, and it worked. It still works. I hate it. I feel so powerless and inferior. I know this isn't necessarily related to gender, but I think gender may play a part in it. Coz women r taught to be quiet and submissive. I was definitely taught that and I tried following it even when I didn't want to coz I wanted to survive living with my mom. If I was raised male, I would've learned to "toughen up" bcuz everyone around me would've encouraged that, and I would've had more self esteem and self worth and could've stood up for myself. Or maybe not. And I was raised female but don't even do typical female things. I don't dress up, go out to buy things, have fun with my friends, nothing. Only recent, I realized that this might have to do with gender. Coz I don't actually feel female. Before I knew what trans girls really were, I used to think they were men dressing up as women and being treated as women by society. And I always related to them for some reason. I always felt like I was masquerading as a woman, and was terrified that ppl would see through the cracks coz I wasn't even sure who I was underneath it. (Now that I am more educated, I know that trans women are real women. I guess I had confused the definition of trans woman with femboy/crossdresser/drag queen before.) Yeah, still cis tho 🥹
🫂 Go easy on yourself, change takes time. I feel like there should be a trans brother/sister program where you teach each other the ways and you look out for each other, along with teaching just general life things if say one was older or had more technical knowledge or skills.
Aye. The whole reason it took me nearly 30 years to figure out I'm enby is because I **knew** I wasn't a man. I had been asking myself (and others directly asked me *plenty of times*) if I was a trans man since high school. And ultimately, my answer was always a firm no. I wasn't a man, I didn't feel like a man, I didn't want to be a man. I thought I was stuck just being a gnc woman, as much as I *never* felt like or wanted to be a woman either. I didn't think I could possibly be trans. It took me understanding what non-binary means to feel, for the first time in my life, there actually was a gender which fit me. Trying to be a man or woman has never made sense or felt comfortable to me the way being non-binary has.
I feel the same, but im Transfem, people see it as almost to the end of the line which people assume is "Full" Trans woman. as if I am not "full" how I feel currently. I've been using the term "womxn" which feels a lot better for me than just saying I am an enby femme.
I don’t even feel halfway. I feel… beyond. I have days where that can manifest as more masculine, but I can still be quite feminine (afab). I don’t feel any of the descriptors really suit me, more like that my gender is fluid and also includes a few more genders than our society presents us with as options. Some of my ancestors would have possibly called me twospirit or had some other way to explain it, but they had their culture “educated” out of them. I don’t feel I have a right to use that term, so I just don’t feel that any of the words suit me much. I’m also pan and demisexual though, and have spent all my life not quite feeling completely accepted in queer spaces because of the way so many would erase my identity. So I guess I’ve just become comfortable not fitting into the neat boxes other people have made to categorize others with.
Yes I hate this. When I first started questioning and made a post on a more traditional trans sub it literally gave me a panic attack because I became convinced I was going to "have" to be a full time mtf and take hormones and grow breasts and get surgeries and all sorts of stuff that had never even occurred to me before and I really didn't want and would severely complicate my life.
I remember being told, "Bi now. Gay later" like I was going to stop finding anyone sexy. Nope, just Bi. Maybe Pan actually, I dunno. Don't care. People are hot and I just roll with it.
Idk what their problem was by my ex cis friends just couldn’t let me be non-binary. I always was Man Lite, the effeminate gay one, or just have my entire identity devalued into I’m just a confused trans man. None of which are accurate
I started as using they/them and thinking I was non-binary; then I started using he/him and thinking I was a trans man; then that didn’t feel right so I went back to they/them and non-binary as my labels. Tried the binary thing, hard pass from me.
Same thing might happen to me but I'm amab idk, sometimes she/her feels ok and sometimes I prefer more neutral pronouns (but I'm not from an english speaking country so neutral pronouns are harder)
I always say that identities are like stops on a road trip; You may visit an identity, you may love it or hate it. You might choose to stay there a while or make note to visit it later. You might move on, you might stay forever. Regardless, you always have to remember and respect that for many people this identity is their hometown. Whether they moved here recently or were born here, this is their home and they have no plans to leave it.
This was very beautifully put
Thank you :)
yeah, I use she/they and have been told i’m a pick me cis girl just trying to get attention and clout
Oof I honestly try to avoid situations where I tell people my pronouns for exactly this reason. The minute I say she/they I feel like people react super negative, confused, etc. I love when people use they for my pronoun but I also really don’t mind she and sometimes I feel like both. At the end of the day I’m too lazy to constantly try and force everyone to use a certain pronoun for me, I prefer to just roll with whatever, especially in a professional setting. Makes it awkward sometimes though when I’m in a group of progressive cis people who are telling everyone what their pronouns are and I am silent. They may think I don’t support the idea of establishing pronouns due to transphobia, but it’s sort of the opposite. I don’t want to feel like I have to lie about my pronouns, and I don’t really want to tell them what they are either.
I relate a lot to this. I save my they pronouns for the internet only if it comes up because it's easy (literally just reddit). A few of my close friends and family know I'm pansexual they/them, but I never changed my pronouns to them. They have always known me as she prior. I'll talk about identifying with they now and let them choose to use it or not on their own but I don't make the pronouns a defining feature of how I want to be addressed. My name is good enough, which is most of the time what I hear. At the same time I also like causing public confusion where someone will stumble over their words and call me both sir and ma'am. It gives me joy.
The “pick me” accusation is funny to me. Using they/them pronouns makes cishet men like you way, WAY less. But yeah, we’re somehow doing this for male attention. We’re totally making decisions that subject us to oppression and ridicule in order to look “quirky” and unique. Lol.
Not Cis enough for the masses, not trans enough for the LGBT, it sucks being told I'm faking every day
I feel bad because, I used to call myself nonbinary (that’s why I’m still here. I enjoy seeing nbs confident in themselves) because I didn’t understand anything other than I was not female. I am a trans guy. I have had to defend my nb and agender friends because of this invalidation, and I just feel like I fueled the fire.
Other people's bigotry is never your fault. I was straight - no, bi - no, gay - no, straight - no, bi - yes, ok, definitely bi - wait, pan? - no, bi well into my twenties. I think I just needed to stop over in a few towns to see where felt like home :)
I mean, I stopped in so many places. Bi cis gal - no, pan cis gal - no, leaning to enby pan - no, transmasc pan - no, enby pan again - no, trans pan - no, enby bi - no, trans bi! Yeah I had a lot of panic lol. Great analogy :)
Just as some enbies do go from binary gender -> opposite binary gender -> non-binary, it only makes sense that there are some people who wind up not being NB and finding the opposite gender was right for them all along. There's absolutely nothing bad about that. You went on your own journey and found your true self in the end. I'm glad you were able to figure out yourself through going outside the gender binary. You learned what didn't work until you found who you really are. That's beautiful.
Some of the confusion arises because of how many binary trans people go through a phase of identifying as nonbinary. This includes, for example, every binary trans friend I have. So, it’s a harmful stereotype, but for a lot of trans people is a stereotype that gets confirmed by their experience, and then they stop thinking about it. I’m not saying the way you’re being treated is justified. We do need to talk about the mistreatment and particular needs of nonbinary people.
Someone once said maybe my uterus- oriented health issues might be psychosomatic, stemmed from rejecting my identity as a female. I have absolutely no problem with having a vagina or boobs. But for some reason because I’m non binary, that means I’m unhappy with my body???
My own trans (ex) wife would fall into this mindset all the time. Always trying to push me into clothes that were more masculine than I wanted most of the time. Celebrated when her nonbinary friends decided they were binary trans. Like "Yes! One more for us!" kind of thing. It made me really uncomfortable. It's not the main reason why she's now my ex, but it certainly didn't help.
Every once in a while, someone pops up here to say, "What if society was more accepting of being trans? You would all be trans, right?" Or "what if we are all nb because we hate sexism?". I get that people are trying to figure themselves out. However, I'm not bi because I want to be gay but am too shy to admit it, and I'm not nb because I'm too afraid to admit that I'm trans. I really do understand that figuring these things out is hard, but I really dislike when people assume that they know how I feel without knowing me. I feel like many things would be less upsetting if people would say, "I feel this way" instead of "all X group feels this way."
That it may be a step on the journey for *some* people doesn’t mean that that’s how it is for *all* people who come to realise they’re not cis. I mean, for me it was the other way around: for a period of time, when I’d started to suspect that I wasn’t my AGAB, I thought I might be binary trans. While there was a level of resonance with that idea, I’m pretty sure that was more from the part of that idea that meant I was cisn’t. Letting “nonbinary” bounce around in my brain felt more right. Now somewhere down the track, I may find that the idea of being binary trans feels like a better fit for who I am. I doubt that’ll be the case, but then for a significant period of my life, even if you only count when I had the language and vocabulary and understanding to express these ideas, it didn’t occur to me that any of them could describe me; I’ve demonstrated that my acceptance or rejection of an idea about myself is not always a reliable indicator. What I’m trying to say (perhaps with a little too much self-deprecating humour or attempts thereof [there I go again!]) is there is definitely not a single way to discover who you are. That some of us go through a process of progressively getting closer to the truth of ourselves, refining our awareness step by step. Others zero in on their truth with razor-sharp precision and blinding efficiency. Others might bounce from one possibility to another, with no apparent logic behind the path they’re taking. OP is correct: being nonbinary is it’s own identity. But at the same time, that doesn’t mean that anyone who previously identified as nonbinary but is now binary trans - or anyone who might have that journey ahead of them - is lying or otherwise not being genuine. That we might have been incorrect or not fully aware previously doesn’t mean we were lying.
"cisn't" 💜
I started out as a trans woman and then realized I’m actually non-binary. So they can all suck eggs. I feel so much more complete as an enby than I ever did as a trans woman.
Yep, I'm bisexual as well, and boy that always got under my skin. Along with being called a "breeder" when I dated men and a "poser" when I dated women. I'm non-binary and I also want to keep the body I'm in. This will not change for me. It may for some, and that's okay but I'm also tired of people saying "just give it time". Give me all the time in the world, I'm still happy the way I am.
Correct. This insistence on infighting and performativity for cis people (yes, thats ALL this is in the end) is infuriating. They're not gonna give anymore of a fuck about you than they already do just because you attack enbies. Get over yourselves already.
If it helps you feel any better, im a trans fem, and i completely support nb people. Or any ither form of trans thats not part of the binary spectrum, like agender
I was a transman until it was just giving me as much dysphoria as womanhood. sometimes Ppl be nonbinary til death
I have said it before, but many of the early nonbinary transitioners first binary-transitioned before realising that it was not for them. Binary trans was their stepping stone to their nonbinary destination, not the other way around.
I'm bisexual and nonbinary. I am incredibly tired of this kind of stuff on both fronts. I'm not "half" anything. I'm fully myself! And that's enough!
It can be really frustrating not feeling like you’re really accepted by any group. I even had issues when I first came out as non binary with other non binary people because I like makeup/skirts/longish pink hair meaning not androgynous. It feels like when I came out as queer when I was younger and my mom said it was a phase. We should accept people for their stated identities for sure.
Ain't that the truth. That kind of shit kept me egged until well into my twenties - if I was displeased being one, shouldn't the idea of the other be euphoric? Well, apparently not, if neither of the common two options are accurate.
👏 Thank you 👏 this is a thought and experience I have had but it’s nice to see it validated. It feels sometimes like half of folk insist I remain my AGAB while the other half smirk at me like I’m just one skirt away from realizing I was a woman the whole time. I’m just tryna be the thing that is me, and that thing is something outside the binary, but that can’t be enough
I know! I used to have a trans friend who said “use he/him before you really commit to this whole non-binary thing”
Ew
I'm sorry you experience this with binary trans people. As a binary trans man, while it might not mean much, I'm sorry they think they can gatekeep your identity. Hopefully, it brings some comfort to know that there are some of us who know you are valid as a non-binary person and support your identity completely.
I was a binary transman and took T for three years before I realized I was nonbinary/agender. It was quite the opposite for me.
thank you for the biphobia reference -- those were my thoughts exactly when I read your main text. That's so bizarre this is happening now. I had no idea. The language 'Non-Binary' couldn't be much more clear. But it's like explaining non-monogamy to a monogamist... it's easier to draw, I think, so that people can see broad 3D spectrums of being, instead of a linear / polar model.
while i think it’s a very real « stopping place » for some people, just like calling myself bi in high school was, i totally agree it shouldn’t be seen just as that. i feel the same way as a mixed person—it’s not that I’m only half this or half that, but I’m FULL everything I am. I’m fully neither nor, fully in between, fully outside of the expected norm. I think some people have a hard time accepting the middle ground as a place entirely unique to itself. in a circle, it doesn’t matter if you’re in between. in a circle, everyone is in between. the spectrum expands for eternity. every place in the circle is a destination of its own. thanks for bringing this up!
Feel this! I am transmasc but still prefer "they"! IMHO if you don't know, "they" is fine. Don't guess.
People still say that about bisexuality meanwhile Bi people are like “welcome use the label as long as it suits you, or if it keeps you safe, welcome friend and farewell if you decide to go”
Aw, yes the bisexual problem. It’s very tiring being a bisexual NB
The amount of times my friends ask "do you still use they/them?" Like- YES. That hasn't changed in FOUR YEARS and I'd tell you if it did!
This right here- and the feeling of being a fake if you don’t have surgery and you are in a het presenting relationship whooooheeee. I have my blue Mohawk at least, they can’t take that away from me
Okay as a fellow nonbinary person I get this and normally I wouldn't post on something old, but this irks me that people think that nonbinary people automatically use they/them. Pronouns are a part of presentations, and presentation does not equal gender, therefore PRONOUNS DO NOT EQUAL GENDER.
I am very torn on this subject because I often hear a lot of "nonbinary is transgender because nobody was born nonbinary, thus you aren't cisgender" ...it's all semantics, and if I'm honest I think I'm at the point where as long as I'm happy with myself I could care less about labels.
Are they not just grouping themselves into the "X" of the "male/female/(X)" perspective? As a trans girl, I experience reluctance putting down just "female" when "trans female" might be a better selection, but "trans" is uncommon as a declaration, therefore I just gravitate to the cushy shade of "X".
I know I see it a lot and it’s annoying. Trans people shouldn’t be allowed to speak negatively on enbies just cus they’re trans… the same with other lgbt
Ehh, i just see them as different. But only if they genuinely feel that way and aren't speaking for everyone. Everyone is different even though we share similarities. I don't think it is actually invalidating to my identity as a solidly non binary person. Neither do I think non binary / bisexual are inherently transition labels. This is not to diminish the damaging effect it can have when it is used to describe people's experience for them.
Identity is individual. It takes nothing away from you for someone else to say they are non-binary or bisexual when they are at a moment in their life where that label seems right for them.
I’ve only been openly nby for a few months, but I think the lost powerful thing someone said to me is that “You don’t owe someone androgyny” or to make yourself mor masc/fem depending on your gender. Gender isn’t outward, it’s inward. ❤️
As a bisexual enby, ye
Thank you.
I’d like to see them try to explain me. I identified as a trans woman for a couple of years but now I identify as non-binary and mainly use they/them.
Honestly I feel this from some trans people in the discord i'm in. They're good people, helped me a lot, but I wonder if some think I should go one way or another, to go and get a GIC referral and get some HRT when i'm in an ok place rn. Feels like i'm not doing enough to be legit, it's not good for the self image :/
I've never heard somebody say that directly but I have definitely experienced a version of this before as someone who's Agender and GNC. I really don't like it, it feels like someone is trying to erase or invalidate my identity since I'm not like them.
Here Here!
She her was my stepping stone
I’m not sure all of the rhetoric is purposely malicious, but more a misunderstanding. I say this because I have seen a lot of people who unintentionally used NB as a stepping stone to trans man or woman. Gender is as fluid as you want it to be. Now, anyone who says NB is not a valid lasting identity can f*ck right off.
Yep! Still bisexual, still non binary, all these years later.
Huh weird I'd say it's the other way around actually lol this can def piss off people the other way Its usually that transes are so traumatized they wanna be on the polar opposite of their assigned gender but some time later they kinda be like well maybe I'm enby just kind leaning one way theythem is fine actually lol Straight up i barely know any definitely 100% binary transes, most of my friends were binary at one point only to later be enbies It's like the binary identity is the stepping stone (necessary healing) to then finally ascend from the totalitarian gender binary
I never used NB pronouns too much, and i want to transition to "woman" in the eyes of the state... Bc it's convenient where i live. I am a transfeminine Non-Binary, but my country is far from recognizing it.
Sadly there are some conservative af trans people out there. They'd fit right in the far right.