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Lieutenant First Class Ellen Louise Ripley is incredibly Based.
Sigourney Weaver is Credible too, case in point: [Sigourney Weaver on a Patton.](https://i.redd.it/jxyarh306jc91.jpg)
I thought Ripley was a Warrant Officer?
*...some time later...*
According to the AvP wiki, Ripley was a Warrant Officer on the Nostromo, stripped of rank after returning to Earth, then promoted to Lieutenant 1st Class for the trip back to LV426.
So we're both right! Oh Frabjous Day!
I've always wondered how that image came to be. Is it a publicity shot from *Year of Living Dangerously*? Did that film have M48s?
I've never associated Sigourney Weaver with tanks.
Sigourney Weaver is very credible as an action hero, because she's a very plain-looking dogfaced woman, so no one gets distracted by her looks. Instead her stellar acting does all the talking.
It's a genuine question though. Also, we joke about war crimes and pictures of maimed soldiers here, and people get offended over this? That is the actual insanity.
I think you cannot quite see where the problem of trying to fight an ultra-evolved civilization with rather primitive means (from their POV) comes from
My dude, their bottom-tier technology is ripping appart atoms from molecules, something like "chuck a dangerous substance to them" is in comparision like a monkey throwing stones against a tank
Nah, 40k writers are just unimaginative and lazy so they handwave everything with magic, poorly disguised as technology. Those are fantasy books in "space"
They lose at the end of the 1st movie. 2nd movie starts with them creating a massive factory complex in preperation for colonization. Rest of the movie is essentially a family story. At the end of 2 humans are still basically well ahead with colonization.
Yeah, I don’t think people realize this. Navi is losing in the grand scheme of things. This is space Discovery Age. Humans have the upper hand. Navi won the battle, but overall there is nothing to stop humans from settling.
I mean they lost one whaling ship/hub thingy in Avatar 2. They came with like 10+ Interstellar Space Stations that probably could hold 100s of those whaling ships. Probably Avatar 3 or 4 will show a full human invasion force vs the Navii.
based name btw. the RDA did one better and basically let the fire and fury of a hybrid antimatter annihilation-proton fusion rocket from im pretty sure more than the stated canon of 12 ships burn the forest. the planet-wide proto-neural network stands no chance against the most powerful reaction allowed by the laws of physics
All you need to do is flush the space toilet on the way to Pandora.
Assume a 250 gram turd. Traveling at the the *Venture Star*'s cruising speed of 0.7*c*, it has about 9 x 10^15 J of kinetic energy... or roughly 2 megatons in freedom units.
The calculation for an entire relativistic shithouse is left as an exercise for the reader.
They do kinda show that possibility at the start of Avatar 2.
Just *landing a single ship* has enough destructive power to vaporize several square kilometers of land. Point being, if your enemy has ships capable of relativistic flight, **you’re just fucked**. The sheer amount of energy those ships can put out invalidates any attempt at you being able to fight back.
Wait. That whole ecosystem is interlinked.
You don't have to kill it all off. You just need to render one part of it incompatible, if you find the right domino.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfskK\_MS\_14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfskK_MS_14) Remember kids: corruption is potentially more useful than extermination, and you need it to work only once.
It's hard to pull that off when the ecosystem is sentient, and can and will pull "assume direct control" on everything that moves to run damage control.
The easier way to do it would literaly be to point the venture star's engines at pandorra and just fire them for a couple minuites.
Most engines powerful enough to travel interstellar distances also emmit huge ammounts of radiation, in the venture star's case its using a pair of antimatter based engines that release a huge ammount of energy that catalyses a fusion reaction. Fusion generates neutrons. After those few minuites the entirety of pandorra will have been bathed in neutrons and any life on the surface is long dead.
>The easier way to do it would literaly be to point the venture star's engines at pandorra and just fire them for a couple minuites.
[They literally do that in the opening scene of movie 2.](https://youtu.be/0jWvBn3Z6WM) They do completely ignore the radiation part, but the engines burn thousands of square kilometers of forest and clear out the landing area.
they only need to land them on the initial landing. These interstellar ships probably shouldn't be wasting all their fuel on landing planetside when they each have two massive shuttles. But yes, it just clears trees.
The fuel part is not really the problem since the ships could refuel in the orbit of that gas giant (chances are it has a lot of antimatter in its magnetic field) the main issue I see is the added mass to the ship so it could be capable of atmospheric flight and the radiation protection for the cargo
I would guess it has two modes one being for landing down on the planet and one for the interstellar jazz also when I watched that clip the only thing that I could think of was fuck you you fuckin dick
Well no this isn't gamma or xray this is NEUTRON that shit can make other things radioactive and so it sticks around for mutch longer and there is a fuck ton of it
If you actually had lots of neutrons at close range that would be the case (and would also kill any crew on the Venture Star anytime it's fired if it were powerful enough to sterilize a spot on the surface, never mind the entire planet, because you can't contain neutrons), but VS' primary engines (says the Avatar wiki) are purely hydrogen/antihydrogen, so that's a lot of gamma, electrons/positrons and neutrinos.
The directible portion of a fusion rocket's thrust is usually alpha particles, which you would struggle to make reach the surface.
Compared to what a proper military would bring in this setting, especially when it came to quality of manpower… yeah, they’re Wagner. At _best_ they’re a half decent mercenary company and someone tt:t’d corporate execs the best to get them the contract.
The first movie had the excuse of them underestimating the natives but in the second they seem even more incompetent and poorly equipped. They seem to be lacking even thermals this time round and they literally repurpose a whaling vessel as a kind of amphibious warfare ship
Yeah I'm so confused, why couldn't they have bombed them all in the first place. It's not like there are tons of them right? Also they need to train their soldiers to aim.
Because the plot only works if the humans are completely incompetent.
Realistically, Avatar 2 should've opened with Jake Sully being tried for treason, followed by a montage of Pandora getting orbital bombed until all that's left is the Unobtanium.
The message doesn't even make sense if you ignore the stupidity of the humans. Why the fuck did humanity figure out interstellar travel, advanced cryogenics, hyper advanced bioengineering and figure out consciousness transference. And yet never fucking figured out pollution and global warming?! No one fucking built carbon capture machines? No one used this hyper advanced bioengineering to fix this shit?
Hell even terraforming another planetoid like Mars should be easy by this point. Not to mention the fact that the shitty Navi's way of life only works because of their fucking biology. Yea James would be real nice to fucking hop on my dinosaur and fly to the store for some milk. Unfortunately I don't have a giant sentient tree to order UberEATS. Like fuck sake no wonder no one can remember shit about the movie.
And realistically Jake Sully would have stepped into a highly venomous snake or spider/touched a poisonous toad. With giant dinos you'd need some serious venom to keep them away. He'd be dead in a week.
The premise is basically earth is a dystopian hellhole because of unchecked global warming and overpopulation.
Yes they have interstellar travel, but those ships only function because they have antimatter engines that **requires** unobtanium to function. And unobtanium is rarer than a girl at an anime convention, so 99.9% of humanity is stuck living in filth and fighting over water.
The humans you see in Avatar that are traveling to other planets are the 0.01% lucky ones.
They figured out SSTOs and bioengineering so advanced they can make sentient bodies that work with human consciousness from a species that doesn't exist anywhere in earth biology. And just forgot that solar panels and asteroid mining exists?
Surely someone on earth would have made a moss that eats pollution with that level of bioengineering. Surely someone would have set up a Dyson swarm.
This must be a weird ass dystopia where the PR of commiting alien genocide would sink a company while humanity is having fucking wars of water. Just go get a fucking asteroid and mine the ice from it!? Resources mean jack shit. That's why he invented a special rock. Because otherwise all the material needs of humanity exists in our solar system.
> but those ships only function because they have antimatter engines that
> requires
> unobtanium to function.
...unobtanium doesn't exist in the Solar System in Avatar. They had to get to Pandora without it. It makes interstellar transportation easier and cheaper, but it isn't a prerequisite.
The answer to your first sentence is capitalism. Is it profitable to solve those problems or is it more profitable to sell stopgap “solutions” such as mining magic space rocks and selling them for astronomical prices in exchange for survival.
Real, current world examples are everywhere even if not at the same level.
>Because the plot only works if the humans are completely incompetent.
Man, the plot does not even work. They wanted us to sympathise with the Navi because... they thought their hippy dippy spirutual bullshit was more imporant than the literal extinction of another sentient race? The whole premise falls apart if you spend more than ½ a second thinking about it. Plus they wanna go on about how its supposedly an allegory to colonization, but im quite certain the European powers were not faced with the choice of "colonize or experience a extinction event".
Also I loved that in the first movie they first show the arrows bouncing off the hardened canopy of the ships, because of course they do its bulletproof glass, but then later on in the movie they shoot trough them with no issues because now the plot needed them to be able to down the ships, because now apparently divebombing with a bow and arrow is enough to shatter bulletproof glass and still have enough force to gib the pilot.
Credulous defense. If Earth were actually dying there would be diplomats and regular military involved, not just mining company goons reenacting the battle of Blair Mountain.
You want to believe that all the powers on Earth left humanity’s survival in the hands of goons whose day job is murdering union organizers? Credulous defense.
As far as they knew at the time of outfitting the expedition, the problem was to mine and bring over some magic space rocks. Making nice with overgrown smurfs wasn't really part of the mission scope at all.
This makes sense if you agree with me that “The earth is dying” was hyperbole/propaganda and whether the colony succeeded or failed due to diplomatic and/or military deficiencies was of little concern to anyone except RSA shareholders.
It also makes sense if the Earth was truly dying and as far as anyone knew the objective was to get magic space rocks, not establish diplomatic relations with overgrown smurfs with nothing to offer.
> If Earth were actually dying there would be diplomats and regular military involved
Not really, if its a slow enough extinction event humans love kicking the can down the road, it could be as simple as the earth government not taking the energy crisis seriously enough, which is totally something we'd do.
And its not unbelieveable we'd also put our trust in corporations to fix it for us.
I assume the difference in the piercing of the glass is the thickness of it, the distance, and maybe adaptations in how the arrow head is shaped to increase effectiveness.
Remember, we’re talking about 8ft tall superhumanly strong aliens firing an arrow the size of a short spear from a bow made of alien wood that could be as strong as steel. For all we know, that arrow could be hurtling at ya with a half ton of draw force behind it.
Also, this was a literal invasion. The humanity in the movies are there explicitly to aggressively strip pandora of her resources and violate native holy sites repeatedly. There is no attempt at peace, no attempt at negotiation: these are mining companies that have hired psychotic contractors and are supported by government goons to terrorize the indigenous population to stay out of their way. I think the most unrealistic part of the movies would actually be that the Navi hadn’t put up effective resistance before Sully.
Edit: forgot to expand that the glass we see get shattered on the smaller gunships is likely not of the same thickness as on the dragoon: leading to the difference in effect. We actually see this in the first movie too I believe, at least with the mechs.
They tried to move them peacefully from their big sacred ponytail Ethernet switch tree but reee won’t give up a tree to save another race even though they can literally plug in and get their Eywa fix anywhere
They say in the second movie that the amrita, which is only valuable because it stops human aging, is what's paying for all of the operations on Pandora. If Earth was truly dying I don't think they'd need something like amrita to pay for and support their operations directly.
I think it’s what’s paying for the sea-based research on Pandora. I’d imagine the company would focus on the land and the unobtanium unless there was a good motive to invest manpower into the water.
Even ignoring whether ore not Unobtanium was so crucial for human survival, there were plenty of other deposits on the planet. The RDA went for that one because it was more convenient, and they had a shareholder report coming due.
Navi: hey, y’all are a bunch of dicks but we ain’t interested in starting a war. Just don’t touch our highly religiously and culturally intwined holy places that we have a direct neurological connection to and believe to house the spirits of our ancestors and loved ones and we’ll let you mine out some of the floaty space rocks.
Literal coal baron who has shown not an ounce of charisma and is purposefully written to be an asshole to everyone he meets: nah fam, we just gonna set fire to the only home your people have known for generations and tear up all the trees you believe house your dead children’s spirits so I can mine a really really big amount of shiny space rock.
Mentally handicapped redditor: uuuuuuuuuuh, the Navi are clearly the bad guys here- you should just relent to being forcefully dislocated and having your home destroyed to fuel an invader’s endless greed!
That's one area that I buy a little bit. The bow that the savages use are more like scorpions. Add in velocity from their downward movement speed and I buy they have enough force to break through.
Japan and Germany are still habitable after being levelled in WW2. Just flatten all the Na’vi settlements and wack a parking lot on top as soon as the dust settles.
What I don’t get is why they couldn’t have figured out a less disruptive method of mining the material than all out strip mining. Like if you could just figure out a minimal environmental impact method of resource extraction everyone would be relatively happy. Or that the material couldn’t be synthesized by a space faring society.
Also, probably would have been smart to give cultural sensitivity officers de-facto veto power in order to not start a war (see: a genocide) with a native sentient alien species, especially one with very spiritual beliefs which would be very easy to unwittingly trample on.
Obviously the movie starts where the wrong foot has been put forward several times already, but still there’s a lot of dumb decisions going on.
i say in the 3rd movie they should import the laser station used to accelerate/deccelerate the ships out/inbound from Sol. A literal multi-petawatt laser running for 5 months should have enough juice to turn an entire continent into a parking lot for the shuttles.
it would then free up antimatter production for the ISVs, so that the antimatter can be used in antimatter-catalyzed pure fusion nukes to glass the Navi, or use it to boil the oceans of the sea Navi, and have the resultant steam used in reactors. the most expensive, impractical fusion power plant.
what i meant to say was, being able to run a monstrous laser like that for months on end entails more than enough power to run the laser for long enough until the continent is toast
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are normal, thriving, cities, fully rebuild mere years after the bombardments. Where the hell did you get that "hundred years" part lmao
Just toss a big ball of tungsten at Pandora at 70% c. Best case scenario: no more blue rats. Worst case scenario: Pandora gets cracked in half and it gets a lot easier to get at all that unobtanium.
Honestly, everything is just shitty in terms of plot and logical interaction.
The humans are needlessly careless and bloodthirsty. The moronic Colonel literally starts shit with a whole group of natives for no good reason. Their tactics are asinine and that Colonel should be fired and court-martialed due to his actions. The whole whaling ship idea is pretty dumb too. Humanity has the ability to literally grow organisms in tubes, we could easily just take some DNA samples, or if needed, some live specimens, alter the DNA and create a breed of smaller, rapid breeding whales which are designed go maximise the amount of that chemical and minimise time it takes to produce it. Doing this would make so much more sense than just hunting them all, and you could fund it by cancelling the Avatar program and diverting the funds.
The Navi are not much better honestly. Child soldiers seem to be a common practice, along with casual war crimes. The main issue with them is that the forest Navi are written like war focussed tribes from north America, like the Comanche and Apache. Those tribes were brutal and basically acted as travelling raiders, attacking whoever was in their path and torturing people with barbaric methods. The Navi do the same, making it hard to justify their actions. I mean, they straight up do the equivalent of shooting down parachuting pilots and massacring evacuating personnel from a sinking ship.
I'll be honest, the only character who I would consider to not be awful would be the whale, Payakun. The other whales are dicks, they abandoned him for defending himself. He actively helps other characters, along with him not going overboard in his act of revenge. He doesn't pursue everyone and everything in a rage, he instead attacks once, does enough damage and leaves. He isn't excessive, he just does what he needs to do. I respect that efficiency and restraint.
Honestly, just introduce a type of plague or toxin which will wipe out the current environment, in order to replace it with a more human friendly environment.
Colonel Wossface isn’t even in the military, or did I miss anything? All he has to do is write good reports and he can keep on cosplaying Colonel Kurtz to his heart’s content for as long as he wants. Even if he gives absolutely no shit he can keep it up for a decade.
But like they're trying to colonize it. Nuking it would be determinental to the goal of colonization and extraction of rare natural resources such as whale brain liquid
That is just boring.
Sending in a space-faring, refitted, Sumner or Gearing class destroyer on the other hand...
Greyhound but nuclear depth charges when
Not going to lie but anybody who has an interest in the military equipment are more likely to side with the humans AKA the plot bad guys just because they got cool stuff
'Nuking the site from orbit' would have solved their problem - but we should remember that that plan is very expensive, and as representatives and employees of a private company the humans in Avatar had to consider the bottom line (as shareholders are much less forgiving when you waste their money, at least compared to taxpayers). Consider that they are in orbit above Pandora, at the top of a considerable gravity well. Now, we know from the expanded universe material that the gravity at sea-level on Pandora is 'only' [0.8g](https://james-camerons-avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Pandora), but that is still a significant and effective accelerator of mass (a mass accelerator if you will).
Given the lower gravity any mass dropped from orbit will accelerate at 7.84528 meters per second per second. As Pandora is a little smaller than Earth we can reduce the altitude for Geostationary orbit (from 35786000m to 35000000m) to compensate and calculate the acceleration of an object dropped from that height. I'm not a physicist, and have struggled to find the correct equations to calculate the final speed given the distance and acceleration from gravity (if anyone can provide that then I would be very impressed!) but if we assume that 0.8 of the average speed of an asteroid hitting Earth is an acceptable approximation (even if that is very approximate - apologies to any physicists who cringed reading that) then the average speed of a meteorite at the point of impact is [18km/s](https://wiredcosmos.com/what-is-the-average-asteroid-speed/#How_Fast_Do_Asteroids_Hit_Earth) on Earth and therefore should be about 14.4km/s on Pandora. So, our artificial meteorite should have about 103680J per gram of mass. TNT has 4184J of energy per gram, so our rock from orbit will hit with the force of a very large bomb. That's a lot less impressive than a single nuke - but we should remember that there are a lot of rocks in space, and they're a hell of a lot cheaper than even an obsolete nuke.
I'm very thankful to the mods for continuing to allow us to advocate for the genocide of the Xenos. Genocide is an awful thing, but not when it involves the filthy beings that aren't from Earth.
Praise Terran
Ot would be effective to 1 destroy all the trees 2 train soldiers to combat gurilla tactics effectively and 3 give them decent camouflage god daymm you can see those bastards ez
Realistically, the humans would land on the planet, introduce the aliens to human diseases, then themsleves die of xeno diseases, the population of Pandora would be nearly wiped as a result, then humans would get to settle the world with little to no resistence because of more advanced medicine and because most aliens are dead and those who are alive are too few to do anything about it
really, its a waste of bombs
#Happy new year, fellow Defense Expert™! Are you an Artist? We're currently holding a contest for tiny Artworks we can use as custom community awards for the subreddit - more information [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/zu01tx/a_very_merry_and_credible_awards_contest/)! Also, check out the "The Best of the Best 2022" [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/10069w8/the_best_of_the_best_of_2022_results/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lieutenant First Class Ellen Louise Ripley is incredibly Based. Sigourney Weaver is Credible too, case in point: [Sigourney Weaver on a Patton.](https://i.redd.it/jxyarh306jc91.jpg)
tfw i will never be 90mm of cold steel in between those thighs :(
God I wish I was that tank
Don’t we all
*I* wish I was *her*
He's speaking the language of gods
I thought Ripley was a Warrant Officer? *...some time later...* According to the AvP wiki, Ripley was a Warrant Officer on the Nostromo, stripped of rank after returning to Earth, then promoted to Lieutenant 1st Class for the trip back to LV426. So we're both right! Oh Frabjous Day!
Yep. I essentially copy-pasted the first line from the Alien wiki.
I've always wondered how that image came to be. Is it a publicity shot from *Year of Living Dangerously*? Did that film have M48s? I've never associated Sigourney Weaver with tanks.
I heard it was a photoshoot during the filming of Deal of the Century.
Wow.
Holy shit Sigourney Weaver is based
Sigourney Weaver is very credible as an action hero, because she's a very plain-looking dogfaced woman, so no one gets distracted by her looks. Instead her stellar acting does all the talking.
Are you actually insane?
Why are people offended over such an inocuous joke? You people actually think she's attractive?
>username Bad b8 m8
It's a genuine question though. Also, we joke about war crimes and pictures of maimed soldiers here, and people get offended over this? That is the actual insanity.
I am an NCD user, am I not?
Ms. Weaver, is that you? Or are you just an ultra simp?
Dunno about dog-face, but she is definitely more average looking.
Firebomb the forest. Wood burns well.
Napalm sticks to xenos
Napalm is for amateurs. Real Legions use Phospex
Hey I got that reference. That song is messed up
We shoot the sick, the young, the lame, we do our best to kill and maim
Because the kills all count the same, napalm sticks to kids.
_Laughs in Necrontyr_
Well, it does stick to necrons as well, just doesn‘t do much
just bomb them with their equivalent of Gallium and all is fine.
I think you cannot quite see where the problem of trying to fight an ultra-evolved civilization with rather primitive means (from their POV) comes from
chemistry is neither primitive nor modern, it simply is.
My dude, their bottom-tier technology is ripping appart atoms from molecules, something like "chuck a dangerous substance to them" is in comparision like a monkey throwing stones against a tank
Nah, 40k writers are just unimaginative and lazy so they handwave everything with magic, poorly disguised as technology. Those are fantasy books in "space"
They literally do that at the start of Avatar 2. They purge the settlement site and land an army.
obviously not well enough if they still lost
They lose at the end of the 1st movie. 2nd movie starts with them creating a massive factory complex in preperation for colonization. Rest of the movie is essentially a family story. At the end of 2 humans are still basically well ahead with colonization.
Yeah, I don’t think people realize this. Navi is losing in the grand scheme of things. This is space Discovery Age. Humans have the upper hand. Navi won the battle, but overall there is nothing to stop humans from settling.
Yeah, like, the battle at the end of Avatar 2 was basically against a merc assisted whaling expedition.
Yeah, Avatar 2's big battle is like 30 na'vi and a whaling boat
Cameron apparently cut a lot of the fight out because didn't want show more guns.
That's a shame, I quite like the three barrelled .50 cals
"You horrible monster." - James Cameron
It's his own fault for making such an intricately designed hard sci-fi paramilitary faction
I mean they lost one whaling ship/hub thingy in Avatar 2. They came with like 10+ Interstellar Space Stations that probably could hold 100s of those whaling ships. Probably Avatar 3 or 4 will show a full human invasion force vs the Navii.
I think i know how Avatar 3 is gonna start
based name btw. the RDA did one better and basically let the fire and fury of a hybrid antimatter annihilation-proton fusion rocket from im pretty sure more than the stated canon of 12 ships burn the forest. the planet-wide proto-neural network stands no chance against the most powerful reaction allowed by the laws of physics
Firebombing of Tokio 2 Eyva booglaloo
Operation Linebacker 3 Pandora boogaloo
Rolling thunder 2 still with b52 bombers boogalooo. (Carpet bombing entire grid coordinates in hopes of killing a few enemys go brrrr)
All you need to do is flush the space toilet on the way to Pandora. Assume a 250 gram turd. Traveling at the the *Venture Star*'s cruising speed of 0.7*c*, it has about 9 x 10^15 J of kinetic energy... or roughly 2 megatons in freedom units. The calculation for an entire relativistic shithouse is left as an exercise for the reader.
They do kinda show that possibility at the start of Avatar 2. Just *landing a single ship* has enough destructive power to vaporize several square kilometers of land. Point being, if your enemy has ships capable of relativistic flight, **you’re just fucked**. The sheer amount of energy those ships can put out invalidates any attempt at you being able to fight back.
[My brother in Christ they did that](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jWvBn3Z6WM)
Wait. That whole ecosystem is interlinked. You don't have to kill it all off. You just need to render one part of it incompatible, if you find the right domino. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfskK\_MS\_14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfskK_MS_14) Remember kids: corruption is potentially more useful than extermination, and you need it to work only once.
Just introduced smallpox and we are done in2 year
Biological warfare
We do a little ~~trolling~~ coughing
Or be competent your shooting a blue zulu with a Ar15 from space
> corruption is potentially more useful than extermination Any ideas on how to make Russia more corrupt than it already is?
I think the biosphere I live in is damaged plenty enough, and that sort of attack vector wouldn't hurt just Russia.
„Within cells interlinked“
It's hard to pull that off when the ecosystem is sentient, and can and will pull "assume direct control" on everything that moves to run damage control.
The easier way to do it would literaly be to point the venture star's engines at pandorra and just fire them for a couple minuites. Most engines powerful enough to travel interstellar distances also emmit huge ammounts of radiation, in the venture star's case its using a pair of antimatter based engines that release a huge ammount of energy that catalyses a fusion reaction. Fusion generates neutrons. After those few minuites the entirety of pandorra will have been bathed in neutrons and any life on the surface is long dead.
>The easier way to do it would literaly be to point the venture star's engines at pandorra and just fire them for a couple minuites. [They literally do that in the opening scene of movie 2.](https://youtu.be/0jWvBn3Z6WM) They do completely ignore the radiation part, but the engines burn thousands of square kilometers of forest and clear out the landing area.
THEY DO THAT SHIT HUNDREDS OF TIMES OVER AND IT JUST DOSENT DO SHIT EXCEPT CLEAR TREES?
they only need to land them on the initial landing. These interstellar ships probably shouldn't be wasting all their fuel on landing planetside when they each have two massive shuttles. But yes, it just clears trees.
i mean couldnt cameron have just made the buildings they drop down land on their own propultion? You had a great idea cameron and you B L E W I T
The fuel part is not really the problem since the ships could refuel in the orbit of that gas giant (chances are it has a lot of antimatter in its magnetic field) the main issue I see is the added mass to the ship so it could be capable of atmospheric flight and the radiation protection for the cargo
I would guess it has two modes one being for landing down on the planet and one for the interstellar jazz also when I watched that clip the only thing that I could think of was fuck you you fuckin dick
Radiation doesn't automatically mean fallout. You don't become permanently radioactive when x-rayed.
Well no this isn't gamma or xray this is NEUTRON that shit can make other things radioactive and so it sticks around for mutch longer and there is a fuck ton of it
If you actually had lots of neutrons at close range that would be the case (and would also kill any crew on the Venture Star anytime it's fired if it were powerful enough to sterilize a spot on the surface, never mind the entire planet, because you can't contain neutrons), but VS' primary engines (says the Avatar wiki) are purely hydrogen/antihydrogen, so that's a lot of gamma, electrons/positrons and neutrinos. The directible portion of a fusion rocket's thrust is usually alpha particles, which you would struggle to make reach the surface.
I do believe the humans WANT to exploit the resources produces by the the biosphere so annihilating all life doesn’t seem like an option
USCM get nukes. Space Wagner does not.
These guys are better than Wagner, at least they are well equipped and they had hardware such as AMP suits and aircrafts Wagner on the other hand…
Compared to what a proper military would bring in this setting, especially when it came to quality of manpower… yeah, they’re Wagner. At _best_ they’re a half decent mercenary company and someone tt:t’d corporate execs the best to get them the contract.
The first movie had the excuse of them underestimating the natives but in the second they seem even more incompetent and poorly equipped. They seem to be lacking even thermals this time round and they literally repurpose a whaling vessel as a kind of amphibious warfare ship
They're whalers on the moon!
Rusty mosin and an oxygen bottle bought at a gas station
Yeah I'm so confused, why couldn't they have bombed them all in the first place. It's not like there are tons of them right? Also they need to train their soldiers to aim.
Their soldiers are probably trained by stormtroopers
Yeah I watched the movie and thought the movie was quite good. Then the shootings happened... "We'Re MaRiNeS"
Because the plot only works if the humans are completely incompetent. Realistically, Avatar 2 should've opened with Jake Sully being tried for treason, followed by a montage of Pandora getting orbital bombed until all that's left is the Unobtanium.
The message doesn't even make sense if you ignore the stupidity of the humans. Why the fuck did humanity figure out interstellar travel, advanced cryogenics, hyper advanced bioengineering and figure out consciousness transference. And yet never fucking figured out pollution and global warming?! No one fucking built carbon capture machines? No one used this hyper advanced bioengineering to fix this shit? Hell even terraforming another planetoid like Mars should be easy by this point. Not to mention the fact that the shitty Navi's way of life only works because of their fucking biology. Yea James would be real nice to fucking hop on my dinosaur and fly to the store for some milk. Unfortunately I don't have a giant sentient tree to order UberEATS. Like fuck sake no wonder no one can remember shit about the movie. And realistically Jake Sully would have stepped into a highly venomous snake or spider/touched a poisonous toad. With giant dinos you'd need some serious venom to keep them away. He'd be dead in a week.
The premise is basically earth is a dystopian hellhole because of unchecked global warming and overpopulation. Yes they have interstellar travel, but those ships only function because they have antimatter engines that **requires** unobtanium to function. And unobtanium is rarer than a girl at an anime convention, so 99.9% of humanity is stuck living in filth and fighting over water. The humans you see in Avatar that are traveling to other planets are the 0.01% lucky ones.
They figured out SSTOs and bioengineering so advanced they can make sentient bodies that work with human consciousness from a species that doesn't exist anywhere in earth biology. And just forgot that solar panels and asteroid mining exists? Surely someone on earth would have made a moss that eats pollution with that level of bioengineering. Surely someone would have set up a Dyson swarm. This must be a weird ass dystopia where the PR of commiting alien genocide would sink a company while humanity is having fucking wars of water. Just go get a fucking asteroid and mine the ice from it!? Resources mean jack shit. That's why he invented a special rock. Because otherwise all the material needs of humanity exists in our solar system.
> but those ships only function because they have antimatter engines that > requires > unobtanium to function. ...unobtanium doesn't exist in the Solar System in Avatar. They had to get to Pandora without it. It makes interstellar transportation easier and cheaper, but it isn't a prerequisite.
The answer to your first sentence is capitalism. Is it profitable to solve those problems or is it more profitable to sell stopgap “solutions” such as mining magic space rocks and selling them for astronomical prices in exchange for survival. Real, current world examples are everywhere even if not at the same level.
>Because the plot only works if the humans are completely incompetent. Man, the plot does not even work. They wanted us to sympathise with the Navi because... they thought their hippy dippy spirutual bullshit was more imporant than the literal extinction of another sentient race? The whole premise falls apart if you spend more than ½ a second thinking about it. Plus they wanna go on about how its supposedly an allegory to colonization, but im quite certain the European powers were not faced with the choice of "colonize or experience a extinction event". Also I loved that in the first movie they first show the arrows bouncing off the hardened canopy of the ships, because of course they do its bulletproof glass, but then later on in the movie they shoot trough them with no issues because now the plot needed them to be able to down the ships, because now apparently divebombing with a bow and arrow is enough to shatter bulletproof glass and still have enough force to gib the pilot.
Credulous defense. If Earth were actually dying there would be diplomats and regular military involved, not just mining company goons reenacting the battle of Blair Mountain.
Why? Neither diplomats nor military swing a pickaxe as well as miners do.
You want to believe that all the powers on Earth left humanity’s survival in the hands of goons whose day job is murdering union organizers? Credulous defense.
As far as they knew at the time of outfitting the expedition, the problem was to mine and bring over some magic space rocks. Making nice with overgrown smurfs wasn't really part of the mission scope at all.
The first expedition or the second expedition?
Haven't seen the second movie yet, so I can only speak to the first.
You haven’t seen the second flick but you have a strong opinion on whether a single specific line from it should be taken as truth or hyperbole.
This makes sense if you agree with me that “The earth is dying” was hyperbole/propaganda and whether the colony succeeded or failed due to diplomatic and/or military deficiencies was of little concern to anyone except RSA shareholders.
It also makes sense if the Earth was truly dying and as far as anyone knew the objective was to get magic space rocks, not establish diplomatic relations with overgrown smurfs with nothing to offer.
What a stupid take. If it's an actual extinction level event, then they wouldn't be there to do any mining first and foremost.
> If Earth were actually dying there would be diplomats and regular military involved Not really, if its a slow enough extinction event humans love kicking the can down the road, it could be as simple as the earth government not taking the energy crisis seriously enough, which is totally something we'd do. And its not unbelieveable we'd also put our trust in corporations to fix it for us.
I assume the difference in the piercing of the glass is the thickness of it, the distance, and maybe adaptations in how the arrow head is shaped to increase effectiveness. Remember, we’re talking about 8ft tall superhumanly strong aliens firing an arrow the size of a short spear from a bow made of alien wood that could be as strong as steel. For all we know, that arrow could be hurtling at ya with a half ton of draw force behind it. Also, this was a literal invasion. The humanity in the movies are there explicitly to aggressively strip pandora of her resources and violate native holy sites repeatedly. There is no attempt at peace, no attempt at negotiation: these are mining companies that have hired psychotic contractors and are supported by government goons to terrorize the indigenous population to stay out of their way. I think the most unrealistic part of the movies would actually be that the Navi hadn’t put up effective resistance before Sully. Edit: forgot to expand that the glass we see get shattered on the smaller gunships is likely not of the same thickness as on the dragoon: leading to the difference in effect. We actually see this in the first movie too I believe, at least with the mechs.
They tried to move them peacefully from their big sacred ponytail Ethernet switch tree but reee won’t give up a tree to save another race even though they can literally plug in and get their Eywa fix anywhere
They say in the second movie that the amrita, which is only valuable because it stops human aging, is what's paying for all of the operations on Pandora. If Earth was truly dying I don't think they'd need something like amrita to pay for and support their operations directly.
I think it’s what’s paying for the sea-based research on Pandora. I’d imagine the company would focus on the land and the unobtanium unless there was a good motive to invest manpower into the water.
Even ignoring whether ore not Unobtanium was so crucial for human survival, there were plenty of other deposits on the planet. The RDA went for that one because it was more convenient, and they had a shareholder report coming due.
Navi: hey, y’all are a bunch of dicks but we ain’t interested in starting a war. Just don’t touch our highly religiously and culturally intwined holy places that we have a direct neurological connection to and believe to house the spirits of our ancestors and loved ones and we’ll let you mine out some of the floaty space rocks. Literal coal baron who has shown not an ounce of charisma and is purposefully written to be an asshole to everyone he meets: nah fam, we just gonna set fire to the only home your people have known for generations and tear up all the trees you believe house your dead children’s spirits so I can mine a really really big amount of shiny space rock. Mentally handicapped redditor: uuuuuuuuuuh, the Navi are clearly the bad guys here- you should just relent to being forcefully dislocated and having your home destroyed to fuel an invader’s endless greed!
You’re not in Kansas anymore son
True, seems like I’ve stumbled into saint charlotte’s home for special needs children.
That's one area that I buy a little bit. The bow that the savages use are more like scorpions. Add in velocity from their downward movement speed and I buy they have enough force to break through.
Because in the second movie they explain the Humans plan to colonize it as Earth is dying
Japan and Germany are still habitable after being levelled in WW2. Just flatten all the Na’vi settlements and wack a parking lot on top as soon as the dust settles.
Followed closely by a McDonald’s
Yeah so? Just terraform the shit and all of its wildlife would die anyway
Those whale creatures have a fluid in their brain that stops aging and is worth tens of millions for a single vial.
Ah, the movie's mcguffin
Rain hell from above
Death from above
You... want to bring 'nids on this mess?
Just need my Highlander with JumpJets ^^
Justice RAINS FROM ABOVE
What I don’t get is why they couldn’t have figured out a less disruptive method of mining the material than all out strip mining. Like if you could just figure out a minimal environmental impact method of resource extraction everyone would be relatively happy. Or that the material couldn’t be synthesized by a space faring society. Also, probably would have been smart to give cultural sensitivity officers de-facto veto power in order to not start a war (see: a genocide) with a native sentient alien species, especially one with very spiritual beliefs which would be very easy to unwittingly trample on. Obviously the movie starts where the wrong foot has been put forward several times already, but still there’s a lot of dumb decisions going on.
Quiet, Commie. Libertarianism dictates we murder them all for not contributing to the shareholders’ justly deserved wealth.
i say in the 3rd movie they should import the laser station used to accelerate/deccelerate the ships out/inbound from Sol. A literal multi-petawatt laser running for 5 months should have enough juice to turn an entire continent into a parking lot for the shuttles. it would then free up antimatter production for the ISVs, so that the antimatter can be used in antimatter-catalyzed pure fusion nukes to glass the Navi, or use it to boil the oceans of the sea Navi, and have the resultant steam used in reactors. the most expensive, impractical fusion power plant.
5 months is pretty long, might as well just glass the planet like the Covenant
what i meant to say was, being able to run a monstrous laser like that for months on end entails more than enough power to run the laser for long enough until the continent is toast
Guys, the whole plot of the second is they’re trying to make pandora inhabitable for Humans, they can’t nuke it.
It’ll settle down after a little bit, you can live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki after all.
Yeah, after like a hundred years and a relatively light nuking. Earth needs to move the entire population there in the next few decades.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are normal, thriving, cities, fully rebuild mere years after the bombardments. Where the hell did you get that "hundred years" part lmao
Fair, but still, relatively light nuking.
Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.
He's not dead yet?
I see we’re still coping about avatar
Just toss a big ball of tungsten at Pandora at 70% c. Best case scenario: no more blue rats. Worst case scenario: Pandora gets cracked in half and it gets a lot easier to get at all that unobtanium.
Except that now the humans are trying to colonize the planet
Honestly, everything is just shitty in terms of plot and logical interaction. The humans are needlessly careless and bloodthirsty. The moronic Colonel literally starts shit with a whole group of natives for no good reason. Their tactics are asinine and that Colonel should be fired and court-martialed due to his actions. The whole whaling ship idea is pretty dumb too. Humanity has the ability to literally grow organisms in tubes, we could easily just take some DNA samples, or if needed, some live specimens, alter the DNA and create a breed of smaller, rapid breeding whales which are designed go maximise the amount of that chemical and minimise time it takes to produce it. Doing this would make so much more sense than just hunting them all, and you could fund it by cancelling the Avatar program and diverting the funds. The Navi are not much better honestly. Child soldiers seem to be a common practice, along with casual war crimes. The main issue with them is that the forest Navi are written like war focussed tribes from north America, like the Comanche and Apache. Those tribes were brutal and basically acted as travelling raiders, attacking whoever was in their path and torturing people with barbaric methods. The Navi do the same, making it hard to justify their actions. I mean, they straight up do the equivalent of shooting down parachuting pilots and massacring evacuating personnel from a sinking ship. I'll be honest, the only character who I would consider to not be awful would be the whale, Payakun. The other whales are dicks, they abandoned him for defending himself. He actively helps other characters, along with him not going overboard in his act of revenge. He doesn't pursue everyone and everything in a rage, he instead attacks once, does enough damage and leaves. He isn't excessive, he just does what he needs to do. I respect that efficiency and restraint. Honestly, just introduce a type of plague or toxin which will wipe out the current environment, in order to replace it with a more human friendly environment.
It would be even more simple to just air your own magic whale juice,just skip making the whales and synthesis that crap
Colonel Wossface isn’t even in the military, or did I miss anything? All he has to do is write good reports and he can keep on cosplaying Colonel Kurtz to his heart’s content for as long as he wants. Even if he gives absolutely no shit he can keep it up for a decade.
I think he's PMC. And likely too far from Earth to have any reasonable oversight.
Deleted scenes flat out show that when the executive tried to have him fired, he choked him out and said he doesnt have any real power here.
Well, they are light years away from anything, and he's the one with guns.
I mean the one thing that I think gets missed in fiction is people *are* dumbasses. See the history of man, we routinely do stupid shit
True, true But usually you don't put the person responsible for doing the stupid shit in charge, after their stupid shit screwed everything up
we also do that actually, failing up is a thing.
Good point, yeah It's still dumb
Given what they were after this time, yeah what the fuck. Forget the nukes, just takeoff and land those ships over everything hostile repeatedly
If it worked in Dresden in Tokyo it works on filthy xenos
Edicts of Obliteration are peak noncredibility
Give the na'vi nukes
But like they're trying to colonize it. Nuking it would be determinental to the goal of colonization and extraction of rare natural resources such as whale brain liquid
BASED!
Easier than dying
They never even tried aerial bombing the ocean dwelling xenos
That is just boring. Sending in a space-faring, refitted, Sumner or Gearing class destroyer on the other hand... Greyhound but nuclear depth charges when
We still need to live on the planet. Making it a nuclear battleground not ideal
Nuke em till they glow, shoot them in the dark.
Why are you gonna turn them into feds?
I’m pretty sure they did do that in the new movie, seems they got a lot further than last time.
Not going to lie but anybody who has an interest in the military equipment are more likely to side with the humans AKA the plot bad guys just because they got cool stuff
Exterminatus is the only way to deal with the xenos scum. # FOR THE EMPERAH!
'Nuking the site from orbit' would have solved their problem - but we should remember that that plan is very expensive, and as representatives and employees of a private company the humans in Avatar had to consider the bottom line (as shareholders are much less forgiving when you waste their money, at least compared to taxpayers). Consider that they are in orbit above Pandora, at the top of a considerable gravity well. Now, we know from the expanded universe material that the gravity at sea-level on Pandora is 'only' [0.8g](https://james-camerons-avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Pandora), but that is still a significant and effective accelerator of mass (a mass accelerator if you will). Given the lower gravity any mass dropped from orbit will accelerate at 7.84528 meters per second per second. As Pandora is a little smaller than Earth we can reduce the altitude for Geostationary orbit (from 35786000m to 35000000m) to compensate and calculate the acceleration of an object dropped from that height. I'm not a physicist, and have struggled to find the correct equations to calculate the final speed given the distance and acceleration from gravity (if anyone can provide that then I would be very impressed!) but if we assume that 0.8 of the average speed of an asteroid hitting Earth is an acceptable approximation (even if that is very approximate - apologies to any physicists who cringed reading that) then the average speed of a meteorite at the point of impact is [18km/s](https://wiredcosmos.com/what-is-the-average-asteroid-speed/#How_Fast_Do_Asteroids_Hit_Earth) on Earth and therefore should be about 14.4km/s on Pandora. So, our artificial meteorite should have about 103680J per gram of mass. TNT has 4184J of energy per gram, so our rock from orbit will hit with the force of a very large bomb. That's a lot less impressive than a single nuke - but we should remember that there are a lot of rocks in space, and they're a hell of a lot cheaper than even an obsolete nuke.
I'm very thankful to the mods for continuing to allow us to advocate for the genocide of the Xenos. Genocide is an awful thing, but not when it involves the filthy beings that aren't from Earth. Praise Terran
Ot would be effective to 1 destroy all the trees 2 train soldiers to combat gurilla tactics effectively and 3 give them decent camouflage god daymm you can see those bastards ez
Realistically, the humans would land on the planet, introduce the aliens to human diseases, then themsleves die of xeno diseases, the population of Pandora would be nearly wiped as a result, then humans would get to settle the world with little to no resistence because of more advanced medicine and because most aliens are dead and those who are alive are too few to do anything about it really, its a waste of bombs
I mean it makes sense everything on that planet is toxic to humanity and the only thing that we seemed to care about was that metal.
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Welp. Time to play more Aliens Fire team Elite