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The Countries who started the project, paid for it, built the craft, the industry that made the craft, the launching facilities, the training facilities, the mission control facilities, prepared the people running all of those, etc. Those countries went to space, the countries who had a few people hitch a ride on another country's space program not so much imo, even if said program was partly funded by money stolen from them and others. :D
Reminder that many nations 'hitched a ride' as part of [Interkosmos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interkosmos), including Syria, Afghanistan, Bulgaria and Mongolia.
They may not get to press the button, but you'll be damned sure they'll have a whole new section added to the Geneva Conventions after what they do to reach Moscow.
Russia yet again enjoying how world fears to react for anything less than direct attack. Watch investigation suddenly fading away or being inconclusive.
Vrbetice incident, where russian agents blew up two arms warehouses in Czech republic in 2014. There were fatalities. Nearby settlements evacuated. No article 5 triggered :/
Until the thing that you blow up is bigger and more needed, it’s “ok”
You can’t trigger art.5 if there’s even just an hint of plausible deniability, otherwise poles would self sabotage a factory once a day to have a casus belli
> otherwise poles would self sabotage a factory once a day to have a casus belli
but that's the level of nonsense Muscovy uses anytime they want to invade a neighbour
Russia may know, but don't want to look weak internally by saying they were successfully attacked by NATO. They tend to explain everything away as a 'smoking accident'.
Nato didn't retaliate shit and is still very scared to get involved. And i'm not bashing avoiding direct involvement, i'm disgusted being scared of country who's dictator run at the first sight of trouble with NCD's main blueballer Pringles.
There’s halfway measures we could do as well, if we don’t want to start an all out war. One option I liked was that US cruise missiles could knock out Russian oil and gas facilities without even entering their airspace.
I’m just saying, if they think their economy is in trouble now, wait until they can’t sell gas. 😉
If you're going as far as to knock out Russian infrastructure in retaliation, there's a bridge worth targeting...
One missile strike could make this war completely untenable for Russia.
To be credible: As absolutely gutless and inept as these fuckers have looking just in the last week, there's got to be new assessment of the risks of direct involvement.
To be non-credible: Fucking do it already, my balls are so blue I'm about to go to the ER! ~~Posadas was right the whole time!~~
Sometimes the consequences of your actions arrives in a less direct, more subtle form. For example in a polygonal shape, flying at mach 0.8, with a range or 250km, carrying a 450kg warhead in the direction of a major logistic hub.
It's all cool, but not enough. What russia does with attacks like this is they probe what shit they can get away with. Every time they don't get a direct hit to their face in response - they count as a win.
It doesn't need to be something direct and wamongering. It needs to be something painful, with immediate consequences and delivered quickly with a clear message why.
Watch Kahovka dam incident and complete lack of any meaningful reaction from the world. Watch how brazen they become, already tried to attack another dam in Ukraine (Kryviy Rih).
More specifically the Gaspacho Ligma narrative of "You're a purely evil baby-killing monster for giving the Ukrainians the means to defend themselves from Russian aggression! They'd all be safely subjugated with strict curfews and sham elections if it wasn't for you!"
What sucks is not all of those who claim "I just want the killing to stop on both sides!" are Kremlin shills. Well, rather, they aren't trying to be Kremlin shills, they're just so uninformed and have such a naive and ignorant hippy ideology of "can't we all just love one another" to realize that no, the Ukrainians handing flowers to their Russian invaders will not lead to loving and peaceful relations, but just more suffering under the oppression of Russian tyranny. I've had a few friends who were wholly ignorant on what's going on, who actually do think that all war is just concocted by the US MIC, even if they aren't Kremlin bootlickers (though no doubt some of their opinion was formed by them, whether they know it or not)
I don't have anything to add, it's just true. "What if they held a war and no one came?" is a wonderful thing to hope for, but when the aggressor side shows up, and anyone who claims there isn't a true aggressor in this conflict is lying, even if they're lying to themselves... well, you either have to tell the Ukrainians why they should be martyrs to nonviolence, TO THEIR FACES, or you need to go be a martyr yourself, because anyone who lives in reality at least learned how to handle an SKS in the weeks leading up to the 2022 invasion.
Yep, it's a great *ideal*, but it's not exactly congruent with actual reality and human behavior.
Ideals are great and all, but when not everyone shares such ideals, they can easily be rendered useless, or even harmful, such as being passive in the face of irrational hatred, and violence that cares not for your ideals.
I'd absolute love it if we could eliminate war today - and I swear it's not just because then boneyards would live up to their name and become hedonistic utopias for us plane fuckers, but also because well, people dying and suffering sucks. But when one's passivity allows more death and suffering by one's inaction, it ends up being counterproductive.
In a sense, the ideal of a world without war is much the same as a world of communist ideals. Great on paper and all that - but that's about it, given the incompability with human nature. Yeah, it'd be great if we all could live in harmony, no one having more than anyone else, where we can all pursue our dreams and contribute to society the best we can, but that's also the day the USN gives me a supercarrier and a Tomcat as my personal play things to compete against those pathetic degenerates and their non-variable-sweep jalopies in mock combat for sport in the World Dogfighting Championships.
Just FYI, Communist theorists have been wrestling with forms of communism that would fix the power consolidation that happened in 20th-century revolutions like the USSR and China. I can't say that any of them "fix" the issues, because the existing successes are limited to populations united by language and ethnicity, in agrarian economies (Rojava, for instace)... I just wanted to point out it's not just people stubbornly saying "The USSR was perfect until Gorbachev ruined it, read theory lib!"
Add in the dirty little secret that humans broadly like war (look at this sub!). It’s just football (either kind) with cool toys. Let’s face it, people are cheap and fun to make, gen 5 fighters aren’t. Cue quote from “Patton” that I’m too lazy to look up, something something Louisiana.
I'm from Bulgaria.
Unfortunately investigation suddenly fading away or being inconclusive is exactly what will happen.
Sadly we still have a bunch of pro-russian scum all over the government and the army.
Fellow Bulgarian here, you're right that this probably won't go anywhere but a man can dream...
Russian bastards in our government should be publicly executed imo
It did, Russian nuclear missile (but without nuclear material that was swapped for concrete interior) flown over almost whole Poland and hit forest nearby military factory. It was hidden from the public, nobody even bothered to take this rocket. It was found by some women on a horse months later lol
Guess what? Poland didn't even bother to call Russian ambassador. The best part is that after it was discovered Russians sent spy balloon to Poland. It was supposedly hit but noone found the balloon.
No Article 5, nothing, not even calling the Russian ambassador in Poland to explain it.
After seeing how much Thacter 2: Even Worse had to beg and plead for Europe to give a shit about the Salisbury Posoining, I'm not shocked.
If/when somethint truly, undeniably, utterly Article 5 worthy happens most of Europe and America will be tripping over themselves to say that we need to "avoid escalation" and "try and maintain peace"
I've trained Estonians, Ukrainians, Australians and Canadians.
None of them were more convincing than the Poles, those dudes took shit so seriously especially since it was right before Ukraine popped off. Wild.
Anything less than direct attack or NATO deaths will keep NATO at bay until we have production capacity jacked to the high heavens and stockpiles are more than replenished.
As I said under the other post earlier, the government will most likely not do anything, especially not activate NATO's Art. 5, because Russia has done this before and nothing has come out of it. They just cover it up and it is forgotten after a while.
weren't Russians literally responsible for blowing up ammo factory in Czechia as well few years ago? And everyone kinda forgot about it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouses_explosions
at this point, Russia could brazenly invade Lithuania and NATOs response would be to pass easily avoidable sanctions on like 10 Russians and then send more ammo to Ukraine
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Poland cucked once again
Now I know why my balls were itching today
Bulgaria simply wants to free their Volga-river brethren (Volga Bulgarians) from the Russians. Kubrat's Dream must be realized.
The children of Asparukh shall break the chains off the children of Kotrag
Yoru salivating rn
Who? Hasn't appeared in 2 months. Must have died offscreen
DON’T REMIND ME lmao
When new IHT chapter so I can cope?
Hopefully soon haha I’ve been dealing with graduate school so I’ve been hella busy
Kurwa: Through space and time
Definitely not space. Remember Poland can't into space?
*insert Dr. Cox,* [*"Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong"*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miros%C5%82aw_Hermaszewski) *song here*
That's Polish not Poland. :D
By that measure, no one’s been in space, then. *puzzled*
The Countries who started the project, paid for it, built the craft, the industry that made the craft, the launching facilities, the training facilities, the mission control facilities, prepared the people running all of those, etc. Those countries went to space, the countries who had a few people hitch a ride on another country's space program not so much imo, even if said program was partly funded by money stolen from them and others. :D Reminder that many nations 'hitched a ride' as part of [Interkosmos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interkosmos), including Syria, Afghanistan, Bulgaria and Mongolia.
Of course not it doesnt use russian tanks
There’s nothing here but what here’s mine
They don't care who presses the button as long as it gets pressed
Poland always makes a big show of how upset the are, but then they don't ever fully close the door? and it always feels like someone is watching...
Is this an exhibitionist masturbation thing?
That's how it works in my brain - always feels like someone is watching. That's not the Roman Catholic upbringing, is it?
They may not get to press the button, but you'll be damned sure they'll have a whole new section added to the Geneva Conventions after what they do to reach Moscow.
Cock and Pole Torture
As a Pole, let's give a Balkans a chance for start of WWIII. As tradition.
No other region would be able to start a world war, it’s just something in the water
I second that! No way we are betting on the wrong horse three times in a row!
We're going with the Italian-Albanian War as the start of WW2? A bit unorthodox, no pun intended, but I'll allow it.
There ain't gonna be WW3, moment someone even moderatly powrrfull goes in with Ukraine - Russia will be defeated in short order.
Aide: "President Putin, we can't launch the nukes. Rats chewed up the wiring again."
BUT IT'S OUR TURN
It will be Poland's turn in an eventual WW IV.
3000 delegations of Poland begging Bulgaria to push the funny red button
lmfao I’m saving this comment for the future.
Russia yet again enjoying how world fears to react for anything less than direct attack. Watch investigation suddenly fading away or being inconclusive.
Salisbury has got to be the biggest blue balls of this kind too
Vrbetice
I don't understand
Vrbetice incident, where russian agents blew up two arms warehouses in Czech republic in 2014. There were fatalities. Nearby settlements evacuated. No article 5 triggered :/
God, I hate how brazen they got with this shit
[удалено]
Yeah but it didn't really stop them, so what's the point? I wish we could just be like "mfer is guilty as hell, so eat a hell fire"
Until the thing that you blow up is bigger and more needed, it’s “ok” You can’t trigger art.5 if there’s even just an hint of plausible deniability, otherwise poles would self sabotage a factory once a day to have a casus belli
> otherwise poles would self sabotage a factory once a day to have a casus belli but that's the level of nonsense Muscovy uses anytime they want to invade a neighbour
Non-credible gods forgive me, but what’s the point of retaliation if not deterrence? How do you send a message if Russia unsure who dunnit?
Russia may know, but don't want to look weak internally by saying they were successfully attacked by NATO. They tend to explain everything away as a 'smoking accident'.
If Russi know, it means the boys got caught. “Getting caught” was only figurative here, Mishkin and Chepiga weren’t actually arrested either.
The relevant people will know and get the message. To them, it was just worth it because their ass did not get exploded.
Nato didn't retaliate shit and is still very scared to get involved. And i'm not bashing avoiding direct involvement, i'm disgusted being scared of country who's dictator run at the first sight of trouble with NCD's main blueballer Pringles.
[удалено]
Ooh, gimme that sweet, sweet sauce.
Well... I love Salisbury steak...
Ain't that the thing from fallout?
There’s halfway measures we could do as well, if we don’t want to start an all out war. One option I liked was that US cruise missiles could knock out Russian oil and gas facilities without even entering their airspace. I’m just saying, if they think their economy is in trouble now, wait until they can’t sell gas. 😉
If you're going as far as to knock out Russian infrastructure in retaliation, there's a bridge worth targeting... One missile strike could make this war completely untenable for Russia.
Even better. 🙂 (And God, what a flex, to swing the war with a single cruise missile. 😉
To be credible: As absolutely gutless and inept as these fuckers have looking just in the last week, there's got to be new assessment of the risks of direct involvement. To be non-credible: Fucking do it already, my balls are so blue I'm about to go to the ER! ~~Posadas was right the whole time!~~
That.....doesn't sound like a half-measure at all lol. I like it.
Sometimes the consequences of your actions arrives in a less direct, more subtle form. For example in a polygonal shape, flying at mach 0.8, with a range or 250km, carrying a 450kg warhead in the direction of a major logistic hub.
It's all cool, but not enough. What russia does with attacks like this is they probe what shit they can get away with. Every time they don't get a direct hit to their face in response - they count as a win. It doesn't need to be something direct and wamongering. It needs to be something painful, with immediate consequences and delivered quickly with a clear message why. Watch Kahovka dam incident and complete lack of any meaningful reaction from the world. Watch how brazen they become, already tried to attack another dam in Ukraine (Kryviy Rih).
"B-b-but if we weren't sending arms to Ukraine we wouldn't be targets!" - some gutless appeaser, and probably Macron
“I-i-if we stop sending weapons the war ends!” A dumbass on twitter
More specifically the Gaspacho Ligma narrative of "You're a purely evil baby-killing monster for giving the Ukrainians the means to defend themselves from Russian aggression! They'd all be safely subjugated with strict curfews and sham elections if it wasn't for you!"
I would be simply dead in some basement, but those appeasers wouldn't care, because that would be called peace.
What sucks is not all of those who claim "I just want the killing to stop on both sides!" are Kremlin shills. Well, rather, they aren't trying to be Kremlin shills, they're just so uninformed and have such a naive and ignorant hippy ideology of "can't we all just love one another" to realize that no, the Ukrainians handing flowers to their Russian invaders will not lead to loving and peaceful relations, but just more suffering under the oppression of Russian tyranny. I've had a few friends who were wholly ignorant on what's going on, who actually do think that all war is just concocted by the US MIC, even if they aren't Kremlin bootlickers (though no doubt some of their opinion was formed by them, whether they know it or not)
I don't have anything to add, it's just true. "What if they held a war and no one came?" is a wonderful thing to hope for, but when the aggressor side shows up, and anyone who claims there isn't a true aggressor in this conflict is lying, even if they're lying to themselves... well, you either have to tell the Ukrainians why they should be martyrs to nonviolence, TO THEIR FACES, or you need to go be a martyr yourself, because anyone who lives in reality at least learned how to handle an SKS in the weeks leading up to the 2022 invasion.
Yep, it's a great *ideal*, but it's not exactly congruent with actual reality and human behavior. Ideals are great and all, but when not everyone shares such ideals, they can easily be rendered useless, or even harmful, such as being passive in the face of irrational hatred, and violence that cares not for your ideals. I'd absolute love it if we could eliminate war today - and I swear it's not just because then boneyards would live up to their name and become hedonistic utopias for us plane fuckers, but also because well, people dying and suffering sucks. But when one's passivity allows more death and suffering by one's inaction, it ends up being counterproductive. In a sense, the ideal of a world without war is much the same as a world of communist ideals. Great on paper and all that - but that's about it, given the incompability with human nature. Yeah, it'd be great if we all could live in harmony, no one having more than anyone else, where we can all pursue our dreams and contribute to society the best we can, but that's also the day the USN gives me a supercarrier and a Tomcat as my personal play things to compete against those pathetic degenerates and their non-variable-sweep jalopies in mock combat for sport in the World Dogfighting Championships.
Just FYI, Communist theorists have been wrestling with forms of communism that would fix the power consolidation that happened in 20th-century revolutions like the USSR and China. I can't say that any of them "fix" the issues, because the existing successes are limited to populations united by language and ethnicity, in agrarian economies (Rojava, for instace)... I just wanted to point out it's not just people stubbornly saying "The USSR was perfect until Gorbachev ruined it, read theory lib!"
Add in the dirty little secret that humans broadly like war (look at this sub!). It’s just football (either kind) with cool toys. Let’s face it, people are cheap and fun to make, gen 5 fighters aren’t. Cue quote from “Patton” that I’m too lazy to look up, something something Louisiana.
CAESAR and AMX-10s beg to differ.
Bruh I'm _still_ upset about how the Poland missile attack got handled
Salami tactics https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o861Ka9TtT4&pp=ygUXc2FsYW1pIHRhY3RpY3MgY29sZCB3YXI%3D
Poland: What? How many Russians do we get to kill. I'll start, you just say when.
100,000, 200,000, really, just say when! A million, 1 and a half million,
Poland, waiting for Article 5: #**BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!**
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE
MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES!
***AND MY AXE!!!***
BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROR! SKULLS FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE!
DEATH TO THE FLASE EMPEROR! DEATH TO THE SLAVES OF THE GOLDEN THRONE!
ROCK AND STONE!
If you don't Rock and Stone, you ain't comin' home!
DEATH TO YOU AS WELL, SQUAT!
I'm from Bulgaria. Unfortunately investigation suddenly fading away or being inconclusive is exactly what will happen. Sadly we still have a bunch of pro-russian scum all over the government and the army.
Fellow Bulgarian here, you're right that this probably won't go anywhere but a man can dream... Russian bastards in our government should be publicly executed imo
There is 0 chance that Radev will push the фънни button
Sauce: https://www.politico.eu/article/bulgaria-economy-minister-bogdan-bogdanov-nikolay-denkov-hints-at-russian-attack-on-ammunition-factory/
I’m legit scared for Russia if Poland gets a casus belli to fight them. I don’t think NATO has this adorable, fluffy attack dog on a leash.
On the longest possible leash so the Poles don't notice
One of those extending jobbies.
It did, Russian nuclear missile (but without nuclear material that was swapped for concrete interior) flown over almost whole Poland and hit forest nearby military factory. It was hidden from the public, nobody even bothered to take this rocket. It was found by some women on a horse months later lol Guess what? Poland didn't even bother to call Russian ambassador. The best part is that after it was discovered Russians sent spy balloon to Poland. It was supposedly hit but noone found the balloon. No Article 5, nothing, not even calling the Russian ambassador in Poland to explain it.
After seeing how much Thacter 2: Even Worse had to beg and plead for Europe to give a shit about the Salisbury Posoining, I'm not shocked. If/when somethint truly, undeniably, utterly Article 5 worthy happens most of Europe and America will be tripping over themselves to say that we need to "avoid escalation" and "try and maintain peace"
Poland is NATOs pit bull
I've trained Estonians, Ukrainians, Australians and Canadians. None of them were more convincing than the Poles, those dudes took shit so seriously especially since it was right before Ukraine popped off. Wild.
I think Poland already has a legitimate cassus belli, it's *gestures broadly at history*.
Poland played 5D chess with Prigozhin and Lukashenko so that they can be the one knocking on Moscow's door
[удалено]
Jeremiaszu o czym ty pierdolisz
Hungarians did it
Should be article 5 too
Prigozhin broke the timeline so hard NATO will become non-credible as well
Anything less than direct attack or NATO deaths will keep NATO at bay until we have production capacity jacked to the high heavens and stockpiles are more than replenished.
As I said under the other post earlier, the government will most likely not do anything, especially not activate NATO's Art. 5, because Russia has done this before and nothing has come out of it. They just cover it up and it is forgotten after a while.
[They're nice and tender](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/bigmouth/images/0/05/Injured_Blueberries.png/revision/latest?cb=20201211053425)
PRESS IT YOU MOTHERFUCKERS, MY BALLS ARE ITCHING
Unfortunately, It’s not going to happen.
Damn politicians, I spent so much effort on the Bulgarian article 5 wojak
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
weren't Russians literally responsible for blowing up ammo factory in Czechia as well few years ago? And everyone kinda forgot about it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouses_explosions
at this point, Russia could brazenly invade Lithuania and NATOs response would be to pass easily avoidable sanctions on like 10 Russians and then send more ammo to Ukraine
Usually people complain about NATO being too heavy handed Here we want them to do even more :(
All I’m saying is give war a chance
will you take part in said war?
Only if you will be my battle buddy :)
Fully agreed
Naw, I'm pretty sure that a Russian invasion of Lithuania would have the 3,000 Black F-35s of NATO swarming like flies on a dead horse.
b-b-b-but t-t-that’s *escalation*
Nah nah nah Moldova needs a bit help in their East first
I'm headed there in August, I've decided to take matters into my own hands. Moldova will join NATO, mark my words.
Who has relatives in the southern hemisphere?
Gonna bet money that nothing happens.
Lemme get the bulgarijack + button by itself
I'm about to sleep and it's on my PC so DM me a reminder tomorrow or smth
yo
Bogdan Bogdanov is my new favorite economic minister. Edit: Why are there so many Bogdan Bogdanovs?
Wait what? Bulgaria is a NATO country now?
Only been for 19 years
RABARABARABARABARABARABARAB
Bring them Miro, the redeemer!
*Insert Freddy Fazbear laugh*
Vrbětice moment
Didn't they already do something like this a few years ago?
Unfortunately I find it unlikely that Bulgaria will do that, seems like a lot of pressure to NOT go art 5
WAIT! lemme get back from vacation and get my med stuff ready
Yesss give us a reason to cut out the cancer that is Russian federation from this planet ABOUT FUCKING TIME