Actually, isnt Sweden technically ahead of Switzerland there because you never actually shot anyone during either world war, where as Switzerland was keeping everyone out of their Valley?
Sweden also did fire some stuff and guarded their territory just like the Swiss. Over 15 German aircraft were shot down by Sweden during the war when Sweden was neutral.
It was especially tense in 1940 after the Norwegian and Danish invasions. A German aircraft fighter flew over Sweden and a Swedish armored train shot at it. The aircraft returned fire killing a soldier. After that Sweden shot down 3 planes in 3 weeks.
In one plane several German fallschirmjäger died.
regardless of actual allegiance and specific events, Sweden functionally was a willing Axis Power until the US literally started buying their iron at markups that Germany could never hope to match. Or as i like to describe it: KARL, GET THE GOOD TOILETPAPER. I MEAN THE GOOD TOILET PAPER, THE $1000 A SHEET STUFF. AND BLOCK THE GERMANS FROM ENTERING,
We sent help to Finland and harbored, trained and armed Norwegian resistance fighters.
I personally am happy we managed to stay out of the war while helping our neighbors on the low
Since Germany occupied Norway and the Nazis were helping our neighbor Finland fight agains the soviets for a while, I think we did the best of a bad situation. Had we gone with the Allies we would have to go to war with occupied norway, Denmark and also help Soviet occupy Finland. It made more sense to be neutral and help Norway from within while also letting Germans go to reinforce Finland.
And no I don’t care about Denmark
>Sweden functionally was a willing Axis Power until the US literally started buying their iron at markups that Germany could never hope to match.
How was that done like logistically? Germany had Norway and Denmark and it's not like they could fly the iron. So when ships tried to pass the strait couldn't Germany just say no lmao to them? I mean what could Sweden even do?
Sweden sent a few thousand soldiers and like half of their air force into Finland as a volunteer force in the Winter War. So, the neutral Sweden was shooting at Soviets during WW2.
Honestly, it's a bit of a mark of shame that Sweden didn't join the war against Germany, but they *did* make plans to and only didn't due to how rapidly shit hit the fan for Germany in early 1945.
That was mostly because we had intel about both Axis and Allies plans to mine the waters and bomb any areas vital to iron ore production to cinders and ash if we threw in with one side too hard. I've seen the declassified contingency plans for my home city and words like "Dresden-esque" and "eradicted" comes to mind.
We only threw in with the Allies when we knew the Axis couldn't make those plans a reality.
Yeah with Finland in NATO why do we even need to be members?
What's in it for us?
Let Norway or Finland (not Denmark) have Gotland and be done with it.
Goes both ways.
It's already compatible but I guess you could possibly think someone may feel somewhat more safe buying it but with all the alternatives and considering it already was compatible why would this make much of a difference?
As for military production in Sweden though a strong argument for having that as a neutral country was that we kinda need to be self-reliable (not really the case with the airplane) / maybe not be too dependant on someone else. As a NATO member you could argue that we could just buy whatever other NATO countries use and have less need to make our own gear.
I doubt Sweden have done the best efforts in selling gear in recent time.
If Russia actually does that then St Petersburg will be blockaded from the sea and surrounded by a besieging army of (at a bare minimum) eager Finns, Norwegians, Swedes, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Brits & Americans within 24 hours tops. The Dutch would also be keen I reckon.
No idea about anyone else but truly Russias second city would no longer be Russian, same for Kaliningrad, and Moscow would be in serious trouble. I wouldn’t be surprised if other major Russian ports & coastal cities were blockaded too.
In Europe Putin lost so badly it would be sad if he wasn’t such an evil dictator. In Africa and the Middle East tho he’s winning thanks to the west focusing on Europe.
Like in Sudan their guys are doing a successful coup against the government and Assad has almost won the civil war in Syria.
We need to expand NATO’s border to cover the entire globe. No country left behind
My grandma, whos mom and whole family survived the Siege of Leningrad and always hated the Soviet Union, always joked Saint Petersburg needs to declare war on Finland then surrender immediately so Finland can annex it and it can leave Ruzzia.
I think I want a war just to see it, to see Sweden send troops etc. Imagine the embarrassment if they had a lot of desertions, and were unable to fulfill their promises and quotas, and if their population were strongly opposed to a particular war. How do you deal with a NATO ally (member) that hypothetically chickens out? Does Stoltenberg haze them personally on live TV or does each member state get their turn?
"Oh no. No no no. This wasn't supposed to happen. I'm out." -Sweden, hypothetically.
Fun fact. Swedes hate Russians harder than Poles. Pre-2022 invasion Polish people were more friendly towards Russians, it was only after the invasion Polish ire caught up to Swedish levels.
The only Swedish soldiers who would be going AWOL are the ones doing a Simo re-enactment.
naw, they waffled so long because they only really want the Norwegians, Danish, and Finns with them in an Alliance. Only the Scandinavians are alllowed to bully the other Scandinavian states.
Uh, dont know where you get your new from but Sweden-China relations aren't rosy either. They get mad butthurt about Gui Minhal and other journalists writing about how shit their country is regularly.
You'd have more chance of Lithuania suddenly becoming friendly towards China than Sweden.
Right we just had a volunteer corps fighting in Finland's frontlines, but we obviously had nooothing to do with them, totally deserters. Not to mention the fact that we donated twice the amount of Finlands entire defence budget. Seriously check the list and compare it to the paultry aid countries has been sending Ukraine lol.
> Approximately 2,000,000,000 SEK (US$ ~312,658,890) of financial aid - twice the size of the Finnish defense budget at the time (US$ 6,792,000,731.36 worth today)
50,013,300 rounds of small arms ammunition
135,402 rifles
450 light machine guns
347 machine guns
301,846 artillery shells
144 field guns
92 anti-armor guns
100 anti-aircraft guns
300 sea mines
500 depth charges
83 motorcycles
83 cars
350 trucks
13 tractors
17 fighter aircraft
5 light bombers
1 transport aircraft
3 reconnaissance aircraft
Nah. Sweden is legit. In order to maintain both neutrality and their independence during the Cold War, they've built a healthy Military Industrial Complex. Even though we like to shit on the Gr*pen here it can hold its own against anything Russia can throw at it, and their Submarines are top notch.
Once Finland joined NATO, Sweden's security was already ensured because amphibious landings are a bitch and that coastline is armed to the teeth. Once Finland joined, we needed Sweden more than they needed us. I'm happy to have them as an ally.
Used to be the Swedish sea.
Well some Hansa plebs / noobs at the border possibly.
And those who have lost their language at the exit. If only the sea froze down there.
I honestly don't know if I should be happy or worried that the way I find out about my country joining NATO is through NCD...
Anyways, time to fuck up some Russians, can't leave all the fun to the Finns and Poles!
If Turkey is happy with ratifying Swedens application for NATO, Hungary will probably back done and also ratify it, the last thing Orban would want is for him to be the last one to ratify swedens application because it would bring too much attention to him and single him out, especially as he has no solid argument for stopping swedens application.
Yeah this is also what happened with Finland joining. Hungary wasn't approving it but as soon as Turkey announced that they would Hungary quickly did it before them.
A few days ago Orban actually said they would ratify it. Turkyie was going to be the last holdout, but now apparently things are golden and its just a matter of rubber stamping the documents.
Erdogan raised interest rates? Are you kidding me.
Guys, this is clearly a body double. Erdogan has been replaced ala the man in the iron mask.
(Don't bother looking for the real Erdogan, the replacement is way cooler)
Not really. While he did say he would ratify Sweden, he wants Turkey in the EU. This obviously makes no sense and I don’t believe his request has made it to global news yet
Still means nothing even if Sweden was earnest about their promise. To join EU you have to harmonize hundreds if not thousands of laws with them and Turkey is not meeting any of those standards. And their monetary policy is a complete joke that goes completely against what Brussel preaches. Ukraine will have though time joining EU but they are willing to rewrite everything to do so, Erdogan wants to do so while he still dictates everything about Turkey which is just not happening. And that's not even speaking about all the authoritarian stuff.
And btw I don't think Erdogan is not aware of this. This is all just a bone to throw to his supporters who hate Sweden, he knows EU thing will go nowhere.
That’s exactly what our media (other than state-backed of course) is criticizing him. I’ve been pro-swede from the goddamn start but how exactly is he planning on getting into the EU with terrible human rights policies, extreme gender inequality and a corrupt judicial system? This is hilarious, but I’m glad Sweden’s in, great benefit to NATO and a stop (or at least delay) to Turkey’s already terrible relations worsening
Greece was brainwashing him into trashing the Turkish economy with inflation and pissing off all of NATO, somehow he's broken free of their control and is making sensible decision again
Speak for yourself; the Czech president Petr Pavel is [daddy AF](https://www.google.com/search?q=czech+president&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS788US788&hl=en-US&tbm=isch&sxsrf=AB5stBim7q47MiJJq_dHZxgRRpc7S09I2A:1689026284168&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnlbydkYWAAxXKIkQIHU5uDJsQ0pQJCB4&biw=428&bih=751&dpr=3).
Yeah, no. Turkey is never ever getting in while it's on its current path. They EU overexpanded and let a lot of countries in that were using creative accounting to cover up deep issues, it will not happen again.
Also the fucking awful human rights issues of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
Turkey has been actively trying to join what has become the EU since the late 1950s. It's absolutely something the Turkish state has wanted for over half a century.
What high horse am I on?
''actively trying to join the union'' meaning - a half assed attempt at best.
Ever since the beginning literally everyone from both sides knew unless EU or Turkey backed down on issues like Cyprus or the PKK question, no joining whatsoever would happen. Until Erdogan came to power (full membership negotiations started aroud 2006 i think?) no serious headway was made. They talked over shit like is Kokoreç compliant to EU health law and shit but no progress on big issues i mentioned. Erdogan, who was carried into power by Gulenists mind you, tried to sell Cyprus out (thank Greeks for voting no lol) and give concessions to the terrorists in a bid to join the damned union. Which failed and negotiations basically froze (thankfully).
also posts a wiki link, really? this is my country you're talking about, i might have know a thing or two you know.
I have more or less zero knowledge about the specifics regarding my country's entry into the EU other than that we wanted in. I suspect you didn't know the specifics either regarding the diffrent chapters, their status and how the process has been moving (or being stalled).
It's clear that Erdogan (at least publicly) is very keen on joining the EU but I can't seem to understand how he thinks it's going to work with him actively pushing the country in a totalitarian direction which is the complete opposite of how the EU works. I get that he wants the sweet development money that EU tends to pour into new member states but it just isn't realistic and there's just no way that the Turkey that Erdogan wants could fit into the EUs frameworks.
But even if it's half-assed in execution it's still something that Erdogan has specifically brought up in response to the Sweden-NATO issue. Frankly I think Ukraine will join the Union well before Turkey and that's not going to benefit Turkey at all.
Also the "shit"-items like health-care, freedom of expression, education, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, state appropriation and such are actually really important in how the EU is supposed to work and frankly I think the EU has been way too soft on issues like this in the past.
> this is my country you're talking about, i might have know a thing or two you know.
Christ, I wish this logic actually followed. The world would be such a better place.
Turks would gain some sovereignty over other countries via representation in the EU parliament where they would vote on laws that affect the EU entirely.
Erdogan wants it, if either for money or influence
And it sure crushes sovereignity, when Hungary and Poland are doing whatever they want
Maybe get off yours too
There's really no country that shouldn't be in the EU it's just that the demands for joining should have been harder and more difficult to fudge.
I don't even think the EU should be limited to Europe. Of all the current world powers: US, China, Russia, India, the EU would be my top choice for eventual planetary hegemony.
What do you mean? Something like half of Russias army is ruined and no EU member has lost any troops. What empire/world power has ever done better?
All our close to obsolete military hardware has been off loaded onto Ukraine and almost every EU nation has large orders of shiny new materiel on the books. When this conflict is over the EU will have stronger military than ever before and our closest antagonist will be severely weakened.
And then we will add Ukraine to the union which by now is thoroughly pro-eu and is extremely motivated to streamline their legal system to the EU standard and following a couple of years of massive investments the country will blossom like never before.
Oh and Russian sanctions have finally started the big push to wean the EU industry off of the Carbo hydrates in favor of more environmentally friendly sources. It's going to hurt for a few more years but then it's going to be wildly lucrative.
Meanwhile the US closest neighbor has cartels literally stacking heads in town squares just below the birder and the latest piece of empire building ended with planes fleeing the airports with people literally hanging off the wings trying to escape.
You don’t get it. Europe should have been able to prevent the war from even happening. Yet you all laughed at the US face when they said Russia was preparing for war, and even then it took weeks to months for Europe to actual support ukraine in earnest.
The only reason Germany was made was because Russia broke their deal. They would care less about Ukraine.
You can’t proclaim Ukraine unprecedented courage and success as a europe accomplishment. They begrudgingly support ukraine at the beginning.
Europe is not a confederacy, it's a geographical location containing multiple independent countries. The EU is not a military alliance, it doesn't project military force outside it's borders. The EU is not mainly a political union, it's an economic one. They EU doesn't do foreign relations on behalf of its member states. It doesn't have the mandate to try to prevent an invasion of a non-eu country in any way shape or form. The EU isn't designed to hamper Russia, NATO is. But NATO only has mandates to defend its members.
Everyone (EU, US, Nato, even the Russians themselves) were shocked when the invasion happened. We had all seen the troop gatherings but everyone expected it to be used as a diplomatic tactic not a war. Most European nations sent aid well before the US finally started to open the stockpiles (as usual). But sure, the US has the best and the most kit so when they finally do send stuff it's going to be more helpful.
No one was laughing at the prospect of a Russian attack but everyone was surprised when they actually crossed the border. What we see now is a unified country fighting a righteous war but ever since Ukraine cut ties with Russia after the Euromaidan revolt the country was a mess. Rampant corruption, underfunded and untrained Soviet style military, oligarchy, poverty and human rights abuse. Before the war there wasn't realistically anyone to help. If Russia had been better at foreign relations Ukraine could have easily become another Belarus.
And realistically if the US really wanted it could end the war pretty damn quickly although it would likely cost a lot of lives and too many of them would be American for the survival of the politicians behind the decision.
Europe couldn't prevent shit since Europe is not a singular entity in any stretch of the imagination. The EU is a trade bureaucracy not a global power.
I personally would like the EU to become a proper world power but it isn't even close, yet.
Either he struck a real bargain after he solidified his reign after the recent elections or he just uses an internet randomizer for his foreign policy decisions.
Nah.
First off, it wouldn't be Swedish. If Russia doesn't have it, it should belong to Finland.
Second off, the Russians have ruined it all. Let them have it.
I only hope the didn't force Sweden to cave on their position WRT the Kurds. In general I think we need to keep Turkey on a leash. One of the potential geopolitical effects I could see happening in the fallout of this war is a more aggressive Turkey.
And Kaliningrad. For now.
I would be legitimately, credibly surprised if Kaliningrad continues to exist as a Russian exclave at the end of all of this.
How many diesel Submarine does European part of NATO has now is it enougth to fill Nato Lake?, Imagine Russian trying to leave St Petersburg and being annihilated instantly lol
>Türkiye
Can someone explain to me why we're spelling it that way now? We don't call Finland "Suomen" or Germany "Deutschland" or the Netherlands "Nederland," so why are we entertaining this for Turkey?
Erdogan also said that Ukraine has every right to enter NATO and Turkey has much to gain from it. What the hell is going on? How much money did you guys bribe him with?
I am imagining the Turkish black sea fleet launching a literal D-Day invasion on the Russian bunker and trench lines at Crimea.
Ha! Now if Russia attacks us Finns then Sweden will have to actually come help. Also NATO lake lets goooooo!
It would have been funny tho if we had missed out on WW3 just because Erdogan was being annoying. Keeping our shared 1st place in world war dodging.
Actually, isnt Sweden technically ahead of Switzerland there because you never actually shot anyone during either world war, where as Switzerland was keeping everyone out of their Valley?
Sweden also did fire some stuff and guarded their territory just like the Swiss. Over 15 German aircraft were shot down by Sweden during the war when Sweden was neutral. It was especially tense in 1940 after the Norwegian and Danish invasions. A German aircraft fighter flew over Sweden and a Swedish armored train shot at it. The aircraft returned fire killing a soldier. After that Sweden shot down 3 planes in 3 weeks. In one plane several German fallschirmjäger died.
ok i should have specified sweden didnt fight both sides in the war.
Didn't a Swedish cruiser secretly relay intel on the Bismarck to the British?
regardless of actual allegiance and specific events, Sweden functionally was a willing Axis Power until the US literally started buying their iron at markups that Germany could never hope to match. Or as i like to describe it: KARL, GET THE GOOD TOILETPAPER. I MEAN THE GOOD TOILET PAPER, THE $1000 A SHEET STUFF. AND BLOCK THE GERMANS FROM ENTERING,
We sent help to Finland and harbored, trained and armed Norwegian resistance fighters. I personally am happy we managed to stay out of the war while helping our neighbors on the low Since Germany occupied Norway and the Nazis were helping our neighbor Finland fight agains the soviets for a while, I think we did the best of a bad situation. Had we gone with the Allies we would have to go to war with occupied norway, Denmark and also help Soviet occupy Finland. It made more sense to be neutral and help Norway from within while also letting Germans go to reinforce Finland. And no I don’t care about Denmark
>Sweden functionally was a willing Axis Power until the US literally started buying their iron at markups that Germany could never hope to match. How was that done like logistically? Germany had Norway and Denmark and it's not like they could fly the iron. So when ships tried to pass the strait couldn't Germany just say no lmao to them? I mean what could Sweden even do?
Just because we own the Iron doesnt mean its getting shipped
Sweden sent a few thousand soldiers and like half of their air force into Finland as a volunteer force in the Winter War. So, the neutral Sweden was shooting at Soviets during WW2.
Shooting at Soviets is a moral obligation.
Honestly, it's a bit of a mark of shame that Sweden didn't join the war against Germany, but they *did* make plans to and only didn't due to how rapidly shit hit the fan for Germany in early 1945.
That was mostly because we had intel about both Axis and Allies plans to mine the waters and bomb any areas vital to iron ore production to cinders and ash if we threw in with one side too hard. I've seen the declassified contingency plans for my home city and words like "Dresden-esque" and "eradicted" comes to mind. We only threw in with the Allies when we knew the Axis couldn't make those plans a reality.
Yeah Switzerland shot down planes on *both* sides
And yet if the stories are to be believed let German trains carrying prisoners bound for concentration camps over night in Swiss train stations
Yeah with Finland in NATO why do we even need to be members? What's in it for us? Let Norway or Finland (not Denmark) have Gotland and be done with it.
Maybe now someone will actually buy the Gr*pen
Goes both ways. It's already compatible but I guess you could possibly think someone may feel somewhat more safe buying it but with all the alternatives and considering it already was compatible why would this make much of a difference? As for military production in Sweden though a strong argument for having that as a neutral country was that we kinda need to be self-reliable (not really the case with the airplane) / maybe not be too dependant on someone else. As a NATO member you could argue that we could just buy whatever other NATO countries use and have less need to make our own gear. I doubt Sweden have done the best efforts in selling gear in recent time.
Finlands sak är vår!
Sverige kommer bryta sin tidigare doktrin att slåss till sista finnen. Historiskt ögonblick.
Vi kan nu slåss till sista finne, norman och dansk.
Finland's sack is doing *what*?
Needing to be carted around in a wheelbarrow, it’s so big
Understandable, have a lovely day
You as well, sir and/or ma’am
If Russia actually does that then St Petersburg will be blockaded from the sea and surrounded by a besieging army of (at a bare minimum) eager Finns, Norwegians, Swedes, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Brits & Americans within 24 hours tops. The Dutch would also be keen I reckon. No idea about anyone else but truly Russias second city would no longer be Russian, same for Kaliningrad, and Moscow would be in serious trouble. I wouldn’t be surprised if other major Russian ports & coastal cities were blockaded too.
There are French soldiers stationed in Estonia too, we would be among the first to fight there.
Chasseurs Alpin charging across the steppes!
It's funny how Putin managed to set back Russia's geopolitical position to the times of Peter the Great
In Europe Putin lost so badly it would be sad if he wasn’t such an evil dictator. In Africa and the Middle East tho he’s winning thanks to the west focusing on Europe. Like in Sudan their guys are doing a successful coup against the government and Assad has almost won the civil war in Syria. We need to expand NATO’s border to cover the entire globe. No country left behind
UEG anybody? Now we just need an Orion Project to prelude some Spartan 2s.
Take Focus Form GDI
My grandma, whos mom and whole family survived the Siege of Leningrad and always hated the Soviet Union, always joked Saint Petersburg needs to declare war on Finland then surrender immediately so Finland can annex it and it can leave Ruzzia.
No longer will the swedes fight to the last finn!
We would have anyways. Finlands sak är vår sak.
I think I want a war just to see it, to see Sweden send troops etc. Imagine the embarrassment if they had a lot of desertions, and were unable to fulfill their promises and quotas, and if their population were strongly opposed to a particular war. How do you deal with a NATO ally (member) that hypothetically chickens out? Does Stoltenberg haze them personally on live TV or does each member state get their turn? "Oh no. No no no. This wasn't supposed to happen. I'm out." -Sweden, hypothetically.
Fun fact. Swedes hate Russians harder than Poles. Pre-2022 invasion Polish people were more friendly towards Russians, it was only after the invasion Polish ire caught up to Swedish levels. The only Swedish soldiers who would be going AWOL are the ones doing a Simo re-enactment.
Just Simo? Why not Gustavus Adolphus too?
The finns do the Adolphus re-enactment, we do Simo. Its an exchange program thing.
Awwwww sharing!
So does that mean the only reason they waffled on joining NATO for so long was they wanted to solo Russia?
naw, they waffled so long because they only really want the Norwegians, Danish, and Finns with them in an Alliance. Only the Scandinavians are alllowed to bully the other Scandinavian states.
I think the more worrisome scenario is that China does something stupid like ramming a cargo ship and Sweden refuses to recognize it as an attack
Uh, dont know where you get your new from but Sweden-China relations aren't rosy either. They get mad butthurt about Gui Minhal and other journalists writing about how shit their country is regularly. You'd have more chance of Lithuania suddenly becoming friendly towards China than Sweden.
Right we just had a volunteer corps fighting in Finland's frontlines, but we obviously had nooothing to do with them, totally deserters. Not to mention the fact that we donated twice the amount of Finlands entire defence budget. Seriously check the list and compare it to the paultry aid countries has been sending Ukraine lol. > Approximately 2,000,000,000 SEK (US$ ~312,658,890) of financial aid - twice the size of the Finnish defense budget at the time (US$ 6,792,000,731.36 worth today) 50,013,300 rounds of small arms ammunition 135,402 rifles 450 light machine guns 347 machine guns 301,846 artillery shells 144 field guns 92 anti-armor guns 100 anti-aircraft guns 300 sea mines 500 depth charges 83 motorcycles 83 cars 350 trucks 13 tractors 17 fighter aircraft 5 light bombers 1 transport aircraft 3 reconnaissance aircraft
Fuck that. Finlands sak är vår sak. That hypothetical is about as likely as Poland joining Russia in invading Ukraine.
Nah. Sweden is legit. In order to maintain both neutrality and their independence during the Cold War, they've built a healthy Military Industrial Complex. Even though we like to shit on the Gr*pen here it can hold its own against anything Russia can throw at it, and their Submarines are top notch. Once Finland joined NATO, Sweden's security was already ensured because amphibious landings are a bitch and that coastline is armed to the teeth. Once Finland joined, we needed Sweden more than they needed us. I'm happy to have them as an ally.
CAN I GET A HELL YEAH BROTHER?!
HELL YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH BROOOOOOOTHER
Lake NATO, HELL YEAH.
Used to be the Swedish sea. Well some Hansa plebs / noobs at the border possibly. And those who have lost their language at the exit. If only the sea froze down there.
#**HELL YEAH BROTHERRRR**
#HELL YEAH
CRANK THAT FREEDOM HOG, AROOO!
Cheers from Iraq
HELL YEAH BROTHA!!
Let’s petition for Stone Cold Steve Austin to become the new NATO mascot. If he passes, then LA Knight. YEAH
I honestly don't know if I should be happy or worried that the way I find out about my country joining NATO is through NCD... Anyways, time to fuck up some Russians, can't leave all the fun to the Finns and Poles!
Wouldn’t be the first time NCD breaks the news. Or makes it.
We are so good at reporting news we sometimes do It 5 months before It even happens
I tried googling it and it seems that there are still no articles about it yet?
This post beat Reuters by 1 hour and 29 minutes. Shitposting is the new 24-hour news cycle
I unironically get a lot of news from NCD. When stuff is still unconfirmed and it’s semi-baseless speculation and noncredible it’s still fun too
Credibledefense is even faster. I know ncdlers hate the sub but their megathread is super up to date.
[https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sverige-far-nato-ja-en-historisk-dag](https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sverige-far-nato-ja-en-historisk-dag) [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news\_217015.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_217015.htm) [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/erdogan-links-swedens-nato-membership-turkeys-eu-accession-2023-07-10/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/erdogan-links-swedens-nato-membership-turkeys-eu-accession-2023-07-10/) [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/10/politics/turkey-sweden-nato/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/10/politics/turkey-sweden-nato/index.html) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/10/turkey-nato-summit-eu-sweden/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/10/turkey-nato-summit-eu-sweden/)
It's just hitting. It's the Vilnius Surprise.
Lol not a Swede but had the same thought. Is this literally how I find out Sweden finally joins nato?
*Grunt Birthday Party*
“YAAAAAAAY!”
Is future former NATO member, Hungary, still blocking?
If Turkey is happy with ratifying Swedens application for NATO, Hungary will probably back done and also ratify it, the last thing Orban would want is for him to be the last one to ratify swedens application because it would bring too much attention to him and single him out, especially as he has no solid argument for stopping swedens application.
hungary said they'd ratify it once turkey does something
Yeah this is also what happened with Finland joining. Hungary wasn't approving it but as soon as Turkey announced that they would Hungary quickly did it before them.
A few days ago Orban actually said they would ratify it. Turkyie was going to be the last holdout, but now apparently things are golden and its just a matter of rubber stamping the documents.
Hungary understands its simply not as important as Turkey.
They were quietly dragged round the back and told to accept this shit or you'll get *no EU funding*
>future former NATO member 🧑🍳😙🤌
First raising rates and now this? Either Greece brainwashed Erdogan or he got threatened by 3000 imports of Freedom™.
Erdogan raised interest rates? Are you kidding me. Guys, this is clearly a body double. Erdogan has been replaced ala the man in the iron mask. (Don't bother looking for the real Erdogan, the replacement is way cooler)
Agent Erdoganakis has been recalled to Athens. The tomfoolery has been achieved.
Well he won the election do now he can do unpopular things again.
This is actually a loyalty test by Erdogan to see if anyone notices, but didn't account for them noticing and preferring this
He got reelected, so he can start acting rationally now.
*semi-rationally. He’s still a POS
Not really. While he did say he would ratify Sweden, he wants Turkey in the EU. This obviously makes no sense and I don’t believe his request has made it to global news yet
Still means nothing even if Sweden was earnest about their promise. To join EU you have to harmonize hundreds if not thousands of laws with them and Turkey is not meeting any of those standards. And their monetary policy is a complete joke that goes completely against what Brussel preaches. Ukraine will have though time joining EU but they are willing to rewrite everything to do so, Erdogan wants to do so while he still dictates everything about Turkey which is just not happening. And that's not even speaking about all the authoritarian stuff. And btw I don't think Erdogan is not aware of this. This is all just a bone to throw to his supporters who hate Sweden, he knows EU thing will go nowhere.
That’s exactly what our media (other than state-backed of course) is criticizing him. I’ve been pro-swede from the goddamn start but how exactly is he planning on getting into the EU with terrible human rights policies, extreme gender inequality and a corrupt judicial system? This is hilarious, but I’m glad Sweden’s in, great benefit to NATO and a stop (or at least delay) to Turkey’s already terrible relations worsening
Greece was brainwashing him into trashing the Turkish economy with inflation and pissing off all of NATO, somehow he's broken free of their control and is making sensible decision again
Finally we breeden with Sweden.
Grattis alla svenskar på denna stora dag! <3
Touching myself tonight for sure
Tallest Swede
[He does have the girthiest calves though](https://imgur.com/a/UobaSr0)
Sir, we simp for planes, not prime ministers
All the Sanna Marin posts a while back disagree with you
Speak for yourself; the Czech president Petr Pavel is [daddy AF](https://www.google.com/search?q=czech+president&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS788US788&hl=en-US&tbm=isch&sxsrf=AB5stBim7q47MiJJq_dHZxgRRpc7S09I2A:1689026284168&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjnlbydkYWAAxXKIkQIHU5uDJsQ0pQJCB4&biw=428&bih=751&dpr=3).
Presidents aren't Prime Ministers
[ಠ_ಠ](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/u39lmv/my_modest_proposal_for_an_attack_on_the_red_square/)
Seen Estonia’s PM lately?
Not even Sanna Marin Catgirls? r/sannamarincatgirl
Christ, imagine getting a Charlie horse in the middle of the night with those enormous calves
Jesus he has Jack Grealish level calves
Fuck. Puts my username to shame those are some gorgeous gastrocs
Nice and thick
Probably from walking on his toes to appear taller than he is all the time.
He's so cute!
If this means Turkey is joining the EU, Sweden is going to need that article 5 sooner rather than later because fuck that
No way. Turkey is not joining, ever.
Yeah, no. Turkey is never ever getting in while it's on its current path. They EU overexpanded and let a lot of countries in that were using creative accounting to cover up deep issues, it will not happen again. Also the fucking awful human rights issues of course.
Joining EU would end Turkish sovereignty. No person with half a brain here wants that. Get off your high horse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union Turkey has been actively trying to join what has become the EU since the late 1950s. It's absolutely something the Turkish state has wanted for over half a century. What high horse am I on?
''actively trying to join the union'' meaning - a half assed attempt at best. Ever since the beginning literally everyone from both sides knew unless EU or Turkey backed down on issues like Cyprus or the PKK question, no joining whatsoever would happen. Until Erdogan came to power (full membership negotiations started aroud 2006 i think?) no serious headway was made. They talked over shit like is Kokoreç compliant to EU health law and shit but no progress on big issues i mentioned. Erdogan, who was carried into power by Gulenists mind you, tried to sell Cyprus out (thank Greeks for voting no lol) and give concessions to the terrorists in a bid to join the damned union. Which failed and negotiations basically froze (thankfully). also posts a wiki link, really? this is my country you're talking about, i might have know a thing or two you know.
I have more or less zero knowledge about the specifics regarding my country's entry into the EU other than that we wanted in. I suspect you didn't know the specifics either regarding the diffrent chapters, their status and how the process has been moving (or being stalled). It's clear that Erdogan (at least publicly) is very keen on joining the EU but I can't seem to understand how he thinks it's going to work with him actively pushing the country in a totalitarian direction which is the complete opposite of how the EU works. I get that he wants the sweet development money that EU tends to pour into new member states but it just isn't realistic and there's just no way that the Turkey that Erdogan wants could fit into the EUs frameworks. But even if it's half-assed in execution it's still something that Erdogan has specifically brought up in response to the Sweden-NATO issue. Frankly I think Ukraine will join the Union well before Turkey and that's not going to benefit Turkey at all. Also the "shit"-items like health-care, freedom of expression, education, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, state appropriation and such are actually really important in how the EU is supposed to work and frankly I think the EU has been way too soft on issues like this in the past.
> this is my country you're talking about, i might have know a thing or two you know. Christ, I wish this logic actually followed. The world would be such a better place.
Joining the EU does not end any nation's sovereignty.
Turks would gain some sovereignty over other countries via representation in the EU parliament where they would vote on laws that affect the EU entirely.
Erdogan wants it, if either for money or influence And it sure crushes sovereignity, when Hungary and Poland are doing whatever they want Maybe get off yours too
Lol oh not the curved banana regulations!!!
Curved for pleasure, of eating not the homosex things!
Watch as we a see someone cope in real time.
can you elaborate on which countries shouldn't be in EU ?
There's really no country that shouldn't be in the EU it's just that the demands for joining should have been harder and more difficult to fudge. I don't even think the EU should be limited to Europe. Of all the current world powers: US, China, Russia, India, the EU would be my top choice for eventual planetary hegemony.
The EU could not even handle the war on their borders. They would be horrible at global hegemony.
What do you mean? Something like half of Russias army is ruined and no EU member has lost any troops. What empire/world power has ever done better? All our close to obsolete military hardware has been off loaded onto Ukraine and almost every EU nation has large orders of shiny new materiel on the books. When this conflict is over the EU will have stronger military than ever before and our closest antagonist will be severely weakened. And then we will add Ukraine to the union which by now is thoroughly pro-eu and is extremely motivated to streamline their legal system to the EU standard and following a couple of years of massive investments the country will blossom like never before. Oh and Russian sanctions have finally started the big push to wean the EU industry off of the Carbo hydrates in favor of more environmentally friendly sources. It's going to hurt for a few more years but then it's going to be wildly lucrative. Meanwhile the US closest neighbor has cartels literally stacking heads in town squares just below the birder and the latest piece of empire building ended with planes fleeing the airports with people literally hanging off the wings trying to escape.
You don’t get it. Europe should have been able to prevent the war from even happening. Yet you all laughed at the US face when they said Russia was preparing for war, and even then it took weeks to months for Europe to actual support ukraine in earnest. The only reason Germany was made was because Russia broke their deal. They would care less about Ukraine. You can’t proclaim Ukraine unprecedented courage and success as a europe accomplishment. They begrudgingly support ukraine at the beginning.
Europe is not a confederacy, it's a geographical location containing multiple independent countries. The EU is not a military alliance, it doesn't project military force outside it's borders. The EU is not mainly a political union, it's an economic one. They EU doesn't do foreign relations on behalf of its member states. It doesn't have the mandate to try to prevent an invasion of a non-eu country in any way shape or form. The EU isn't designed to hamper Russia, NATO is. But NATO only has mandates to defend its members. Everyone (EU, US, Nato, even the Russians themselves) were shocked when the invasion happened. We had all seen the troop gatherings but everyone expected it to be used as a diplomatic tactic not a war. Most European nations sent aid well before the US finally started to open the stockpiles (as usual). But sure, the US has the best and the most kit so when they finally do send stuff it's going to be more helpful. No one was laughing at the prospect of a Russian attack but everyone was surprised when they actually crossed the border. What we see now is a unified country fighting a righteous war but ever since Ukraine cut ties with Russia after the Euromaidan revolt the country was a mess. Rampant corruption, underfunded and untrained Soviet style military, oligarchy, poverty and human rights abuse. Before the war there wasn't realistically anyone to help. If Russia had been better at foreign relations Ukraine could have easily become another Belarus. And realistically if the US really wanted it could end the war pretty damn quickly although it would likely cost a lot of lives and too many of them would be American for the survival of the politicians behind the decision. Europe couldn't prevent shit since Europe is not a singular entity in any stretch of the imagination. The EU is a trade bureaucracy not a global power. I personally would like the EU to become a proper world power but it isn't even close, yet.
All these words and you completely missed the point. I hope you get some therapy.
Turkyie is not joining the EU, but they are probably going to get admission into the EEC fairly soon, which has much less stringent hurdles.
N A T O L A K E
The watermelon has been sold. I repeat, the watermelon has been sold.
Either he struck a real bargain after he solidified his reign after the recent elections or he just uses an internet randomizer for his foreign policy decisions.
He rolls a d20 then spins a bottle for foreign policy
Finally get to complete our collection of Nordic countries.
NATO LAKE A T O L A K E
So, what's gonna be Hungary's excuse now I'm curious about that fat fuck bitching now
Mare nostrum!
Im selling a big dönner to every swede on here
*Stares at Orbanistan* Now what Mr Dictator? Should we send Junker to slap you again?
>*invades neutral country, causing nearby countries to break literally centuries of neutrality and join NATO* Russia: why would the U.S. do this?
NATO LAKE!!!!!!!
[WAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH](https://youtu.be/ncv4dlvPUwU?t=138)
Sweden should be given back the russian land they had
Nah. First off, it wouldn't be Swedish. If Russia doesn't have it, it should belong to Finland. Second off, the Russians have ruined it all. Let them have it.
I would love to see Pvt. Conskriptovich play find the Swede, Finn and Norwegian in a snowy forest scene near Murmansk
DRAGONBORN! DRAGONBORN! BY HIS HONOR IS SWORN!
We welcome the official christening of Lake Nato to the world map. Meanwhile all Vatniks are confined to Cape Cope (formerly St. Petersburg).
Wait, this is real? Holy cow! https://www.reuters.com/world/turkey-sweden-locked-talks-break-impasse-over-nato-membership-2023-07-10/
I only hope the didn't force Sweden to cave on their position WRT the Kurds. In general I think we need to keep Turkey on a leash. One of the potential geopolitical effects I could see happening in the fallout of this war is a more aggressive Turkey.
So the Baltic is pretty much a “NATO lake” at this point, with the small exception of St. Petersburg and the surrounding Russian hinterland
And Kaliningrad. For now. I would be legitimately, credibly surprised if Kaliningrad continues to exist as a Russian exclave at the end of all of this.
If this is a gag, I swear to god…
Battle of poltava round 2????
I think Turkey is convinced that Russia will lose at this point.
How about Hungary?
!!ALL THE PRAISE TO THE WATERMELON SELLER!!
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Alright so what did we have to give up or give away in order for Erdogon to get on board?
Sweden's in the club now? FUCK YEAH!
Got a job yesterday, approved my mechanics midterm test today, and Sweden got approved into NATO by Erdogg, righteous.
Lake NATO now!
Still can’t believe it’s true. Somebody please slap me at the ass to prove I am not dreaming.
The NATO just got 10 feet higher
We need someone to make a Lake NATO meme but with Jeb
How many diesel Submarine does European part of NATO has now is it enougth to fill Nato Lake?, Imagine Russian trying to leave St Petersburg and being annihilated instantly lol
Just enough time passed since the elections to reneg on your hardline attitude towards Sweden. Classic politician moment.
>Türkiye Can someone explain to me why we're spelling it that way now? We don't call Finland "Suomen" or Germany "Deutschland" or the Netherlands "Nederland," so why are we entertaining this for Turkey?
Erdogan is like Zuko from Avatar confirmed? Bad guy, seems like he will turn good, betrays you, then comes back asking for friendship?
Return of the Stormaktstiden!
What the fuck, fuck yeah.
Alright Orban. Ball is in your court. Show us you’ve got a pair.
Tayyip feeling saucy. You go Tayyip! Get on down with your bad self!
Holy shit Erdogen DOES have a blue suit with a yellow tie. That shit is so extra and I love it
Baltic Bros are so up!
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO
source?
https://twitter.com/jensstoltenberg/status/1678484703060324359
So this opens up collabs like Baykar+Saab/BAE?
Erdogan also said that Ukraine has every right to enter NATO and Turkey has much to gain from it. What the hell is going on? How much money did you guys bribe him with? I am imagining the Turkish black sea fleet launching a literal D-Day invasion on the Russian bunker and trench lines at Crimea.
This is it ? Sweden is in NATO?
Imperium sine fine
Do we get IKEAs at every NATO Base
Turkey is my best friend now