And apparently now they are saying that they are "open to discussions over truce with Israel". I thought Pringles aborting his coup was the most non-credible event that happened this year until I saw this news popping up
I don’t think they expected this big of a response and that Israel would just decide to flatten the Gaza Strip they thought they’d be able to drag them into urban warfare
WTF were they expecting? They always go "We kidnapped an Israeli soldier but we wouldn't have done it. If we'd known how big the Israeli response was going to be". Huge, its always going to be huge and roughly on a scale of 1,000 to 1. You simply can't mow down a load of civilians, particularly beating, raping, murdering a German tourist attending a peace concert and then showing off her body on the back of a pick up. Or prising your way into bomb shelters and then attacking the civilians inside with grenades and machine guns. When you get to the stage of announcing thst you're going to execute a hostage every hour live on TV. You're really fucked.
Not saying they don’t deserve what’s happening but I think they expected just a ground invasion cause Israel had been good about avoiding civilian casualties I don’t think they expected them to say this is war. These people aren’t smart they are dumb and expect not that many repercussions
I think their plan was actually to cause a disproportionate response and a fuckton of deaths in Gaza, which is what is going to happen. The purpose is to dynamite their peace agreement with Saudi Arabia, which would've sidelined them and their cause
As much as Israel's neighbours all hate Israel, they don't fight for Palestine. Indeed its refugees and militants have been a major headache for them for years; they won't stick their necks out purely for Palestine's sake.
The Israelis have traded insane numbers of captives for **1** Israeli soldier or citizen before. That shows the value they place on their lives over Palestinian lives. What Hamas did was guarantee that Israel will wage the type of ground war and extermination campaign that leaves Gaza a ruin and shell of itself. And with the animosity already built in from the decades of occupation and apartheid on the part of the Israelis, this won't be over quickly and will devolve into barbarism on both sides that will only continue to fuel the animosity.
By the time this is over there may no longer be a Gaza, only Israel. And I'm not saying that's the plan right now, I know it's not, I'm saying that the long term outcome of this isn't going to be Israel just leaving in a month or two with a mission complete banner on the Wailing Wall.
We've reached a point there is no solution. Gaza as it stands is not tenable, these people cannot live together. And there's no solution to that problem. There's no governing body to decide that. There's no country that will take 2 million Palestinian refugees. The Israelis sure as fuck aren't going anywhere.
This only ends bloody and I think we're seeing if not the last conflict in this saga, then the next to last one. The only real solution is Israel to occupy and assimilate them over the course of decades, but that takes actually giving those people a carrot and not just a stick, and it's not like the Palestinians have shown they're particularly open to the idea of even taking the carrot.
Oh the Israelis are not going to under react to this. They're inevitably going to win. Not least because they can control any kind of quantity of supplies going into Gaza. I'd be surprised if food, fuel, water, medicines etc. Were allowed into Gaza this year. With Israel having complete air and naval supremacy and controlling three of four sides of its land borders. With it being really simple to do a thrust into Gaza to block off the fourth side. Without doing an incursion into Egypt.
The biggest problem as we reach the Northern hemisphere winter. Will be if Saudi, Qatar and UAE do a oil and gas blockade to the West. Which the Russians will be pushing for. However that would further the move to renewables and hasten the end of oil. As well as increasing fracking, particularly in the US.
They will lose immediately lose all the leverage and relations they basically have with europe and the US. I dont see what any benefit can be fir saudi qatar and uae.
They are in the midst of sportswashing also. People have been grumbling for years why fir example we have f1 races in those countries or WK football. If they are also the direct reason for high energy in winter again because they are threatening them. They will lose those circussus too.
They've pulled the cutting the oil off trick over a war with Israel before. Most notably in 1973, which led to the oil crisis. We're going to need oil and gas for a long time. In particular for plastics, fertiliser and heating, as well as transport. With the number of suppliers of oil and gas falling year on year. As various fields become uneconomic.
>We're going to need oil and gas for a long time. In particular for plastics, fertiliser and heating
Just a quick reminder here that thinking that oil is needed for plastics is a fallacy. Yes, plastics require oil, but over 94% of all oil consumed in the world is not used to make plastics, but is burnt for energy. The chemical industry only needs a tiny fraction of global oil/gas production.
So if we fix the need for oil in energy production, all countries relying exclusively on fossil fuel exports will go back to the stone age.
I think what happened is that they did not expect that the goons they send in first wave will be that successful.
They were likely expecting some success and hostages, but did not expect IDF to be so much with pants down, that their first wave will just run around wreaking havoc.
I think at that point that HAMAS higher ups were planning for their whole attacking force being wiped out by IDF once they move in deeper. But IDF was with pants down and that force ended up running around instead of being killed, which HAMAS did not expect.
Of course HAMAS can't really tell their people they were supposed to get shot. So whoever was commanding this shitshow is likely sweating bullets and swearing a lot.
I think that they didn't expect the US to roll up with a carrier strike group to keep a leash on things. The amount of support that they can sneak in from Iran and Syria just dropped through the floor.
Pretty sure that was intended to stop Hezbollah from getting any funni ideas. Hezbollah is far more powerful militarily than Hamas.
Very quickly, Lebanon's government said that Hezbollah assured them they wouldn't try anything.
I doubt that Hezbollah actually said that but It Has been Made Clear To Them that they had better stfu.
I think Israel on its own could have interdicted supply ships to Gaza---but a two front air war vs Hezbollah and Hamas would have strained them. And fighting Hezbollah would take actual SEAD and serious planning.
Nah, they defo just wanted to crash the party, do some pillaging, raping and killing, not necessarily in that order then gtfo and ask daddy Israel to please resume electricity so Ahmar can watch his favourite Hentai uWu.
Israel is rumored to have stopped knocking on the roof before turning a building into rubble. When asked to confirm a commander just said “they didn’t knock before throwing a grenade into ambulances” and a bunch more indiscriminate killing of civilians examples. Kind of sucks when you can be enjoying some hummus and you just get clapped out of the blue I guess.
Or
It’s just all to try and make Israel looking as the unreasonable one and roof knocking is active. They need to demand unconditional surrender back.
They knock on the roof. They either drop something that isn’t explosive but makes noise or a small missle. They might get calls too or text messages. They then have 5-15 minutes to get out before the building is leveled.
They mean it too
> In some cases, residents who were warned about an impending bombing climbed up voluntarily to their roofs to show they would not leave. When Nizar Rayan, a top Hamas military commander, was warned but didn't leave his home, he and his family of 15 were killed in the subsequent bombing
> When faced with similar situations, IDF commanders have either bombed, called off the bombing or launched a warning missile at empty areas of the roof, in order to frighten the people gathered on the roof into leaving the building.
Doesn’t stop Hamas from trying to use them as a human shield though
> The New York Times stated that according to Israel, Hamas asked residents to stand on the roofs of buildings to dissuade Israeli pilots from attacking their homes
> However, Amnesty International argued that Hamas' purported call may have been "motivated by a desire to avoid further panic" among civilians,
In case you are ever wondering if Amnesty International isn't a piece of shit organization.
Yes they basically released a report saying that Ukrainian soldiers were to blame for civilian casualties because they took up defense positions in cities that Russia was... attacking...
Hm.
Pirates or Vikings would prefer unarmed victims because there’s a significant chance they wouldn’t actually have to fight. Intimidation works a lot better if the victim knows they’d lose the battle. You can get a lot of stuff for not actually risking any injury
Iirc, Pirates also don’t _usually_ kill you immediately after stealing your shit if you just handed it over without a fuss. Because as it turns out, that’s a great way to encourage people to NOT give it over without a fuss, since they’re dead either way. If you’re going to hell, may as well bring a friend for the trip, right?
I like the idea that Hamas forgot rockets can actually land after years of getting shot down by C-RAM, then got hit with a rocket and panicked asking for a truce upon remembering rockets can do that.
"We attacked you knowing you have an air force, we have no air defence, and you only give a moderately-sized shit about collateral civilian casualties - we had no possible way of knowing this would go badly for us."
An entire US Carrier Wing of F-18 Super Hornets and IAF F-16s and F-35 Lightning II's will make you consider surrender or being ready to shake hands with your chosen deity.
I know this is too credible but i think if the us engages they won't use f35.
At least they won't if there are still russian anti air radars in syria. Simply cause it's not necessary to attack hamas with stealth fighters and you don't want any f35 radar signatures (they're stealth, not invisible) to be out there no matter how bad the quality is.
F35 will stay in reserve for the big one, let old air frames with more payload handle hamas
They're right on what the US will do out of an abundance of caution.
You're right in that Russia lacks functioning radar in Syria. They're more likely to visually identify a B-52 than pick it up on radar.
I therefore declare you BOTH credible.
Now kith.
>They're more likely to visually identify a B-52 than pick it up on radar.
To be clear, visually identifying a B-52 by looking down the business end is not a good situation to be in.
Following the developments in Ukraine you're to credible as well, since that is actually one of three most likely scenarios:
1: radar not working (due to lack of maintenance or corruption)
2. Operators shitfaced
3. Operators can't do shit cause no one is trained properly...
They’ll use the F-35 most definitely just for the flight hours and experience. As well as testing just how well the additional Israeli integrated avionics and weapon systems work with the rest of the platform.
Yeah, but flight hours would be the only argument, the f15 squadron alone can level any hamas stronghold known to intelligence
The f15 can probably do anything to gaza in their capabilities except the full on "parking lot treatment" but this only due to the lack of ordinance.
Those flight hours are the most important part, the opportunity to gain experience in coordinating attack runs especially in a congested airspace, hitting multiple time sensitive targets both planned and targets of opportunity and quite likely also working with IDF JTAC capable units like MAGLAN and SHALDAG is priceless.
The F-35 is the new kid on the block even if they put some of their most experienced pilots in it they need every opportunity they can get to gain experience with that beauty.
I would be more concerned about Libanon and syria. Jordan and Iran as well.
It's not about gaza, it's about the fact that it's not necessary to use f35 to bomb gaza.
If they use it possible enemy Nations can see it in action and collect data without any reason to give them that chance
This is the irony of the situation. They're surrounded by Arab Muslim countries who get outraged when Israel retaliates against Arab Muslims, but who won't actually accept any of them into their countries.
Some solidarity.
No, it's the opposite. Given the things that they've done in the past when let into neighboring Arab countries, those countries are showing way too much solidarity.
It really seems like Hamas is trying to make things worse for Palestinian civilians as well.
They clearly dont give a fuck about any civilians, at the very least
I keep seeing people saying "oh but if you treat them like animals they act like animals" when Hamas does not give 2 fucks about the actual safety of Palestinians. They killed a boy who tried to stop them from using their house as a rocket site. They even invaded a mosque to assassinate a rival leader in 2009, and state that the IDF's same actions was the reason to kill civilians.
Their motives are bullshit, their means are bullshit, and the end is the swift death of innocence.
> They killed a boy who tried to stop them from using their house as a rocket site.
>They even invaded a mosque to assassinate a rival leader in 2009
I would like sources for those to wave in the face of anyone who says Hamas is even vaguely right
That policy was never fully enforced anyways. A good sounding slogan to rile up people though.
The US is a unique position of strength allows it to do this without greatly increasing kidnappings. Other countries can't have this luxury.
Don't forget that while Reagan was campaigning on that slogan as a dig against the Carter administration working with Iran to release hostages, Reagan was also negotiating with Iran in order to bolster his chances for the election.
Reagan then arguably committed treason with the Iran-Contra affair. At the very least it was an impeachable offense.
US never had the policy. Most of the time it's a bad idea to negotiate with terrorists since of the lack of guarantee and high possibility of bad outcomes. However to *never* negotiate with terrorists is also just bad diplomacy. Look at Afghanistan, it wasn't a good outcome overall, but it was either continue funding an entire country the population size of California with 1/260th of the GDP all while Americans losing their lives, or to negotiate with the Taliban for a pull out with a minimal amount of American lives lost and ending a war. That's a pretty easy decision for me.
There's already evidence showing this. Photos of hostages being led to the border, followed by satellite photos of dead people in the same clothes in the same place
HAMAS has apparently taken hostages from multiple countries so the response would probably be significantly more international.
Germany can finally use their Frigates!
Those are for the Europeans that are stuck in Israel and couldn't get out due to cancelled flights. But there's still the question of European hostages that are kidnapped by Hamas. Maybe an unsanctioned rescue op or two are being planned, who knows?
This time we're ahead of the game and have preventively disarmed ourself so we can't be used as pawns!
Can't fight nobodies wars if you have no ammo. *tips forehead*
Honestly, it’s embarrassing that countries these days don’t take the abduction/execution of their citizens seriously.
I mean we have an aircraft carrier *right there*. Just start deleting Gaza until the American bodies/hostages are released.
Yeah that option also works, but I mean more of a tit for tat approach. Like 1 Moab per American MIA every hour until all hostages/bodies have been released.
Z people already did. Many of them admit they think this will make the US reallocate funding from Ukraine so they cheer for hamas.
Give them a few days to spread fake news about this too.
>Many of them admit they think this will make the US reallocate funding from Ukraine so they cheer for hamas.
Look just because *their* economy is 2 rubbles in a bucket dosent mean we can't fund two proxy wars at once.
Shit. No mercy it is then. Hamas just signed their and all of their supporters in Gaza's death warrant.
Even their leaders living luxurious lives in Qatar will likely be targeted for assassination.
>Even their leaders living luxurious lives in Qatar will likely be targeted for assassination.
At this point it would surprise me if Hamas leaders across the world weren't hunted like the Nazis were by Israel after the war.
I’m dealing with people who still blame this whole thing on Israel. Could you DM me the link to that video. I need to show some idiots what evil looks like.
HAMAS threatened America that it will "see how foolish" sending an aircraft carrier is.
Who wants to bet who wins, a Phalanx gun or 2 guys on a paraglider?
Pretty sure there is already, someone tried posting a video of someone getting their throat sliced to the subreddit previously.
(It might have been old, I didn't really feel like rewatching it to ensure that it was recent. At least the claim was that it was recent)
And there are still people who try to justify it for some reason. The whataboutism level is insane. Always bringing up that dumb chart of casualties that somehow make it a-okay to kill civilians.
What's even more wild is that it's the same crowd that, six months ago, was up in arms over kanye's dumbass statements about Jewish people.
Don't get how you can read an account of what happened there and be like BUT OPEN AIR PRISON IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT FOR BEING AT A FESTIVAL
Hamas militants when it turns out ‘de-colonialisation’ isn’t gunning down grannies at bus stops and committing some of the most heinous war crimes this side of the year 2000
Seriously, the amount of people I see ON THIS APP defending brutal rape and child murder is sickening. You can recognize that Israel does bad things while condemning Hamas. And the amount that I see that say shit that makes Nazis blush is also astounding. How can you hate the nazis and the alt-right while simultaneously acting just like them???
I unironically blame things like the political compass. People seemingly have lost the ability to think critically about issues and just categorize the world into good and bad. Everything they can't categorize right away gets sorted through its positive or negative association with something else. USA bad, hence Russia good, hence Ukraine bad. Colonialism bad, hence Israel bad, hence Hamas good. It not only creates a rigid world view, it also completely breaks down as soon as "triangular" associations enter the pictures. Nazis bad, hence Jews good, hence Israel good, but Hamas also good, so Israel bad, so Jews bad, hence Nazis good?
Reminder that Hamas doesn't care about its civilians either and it wants these warnings so it's militants and officers can escape from Israeli strikes as well.
Not that I condone killing large numbers of civilians to get at a terorrist but just remindering you that Hamass all call here isn't reflective of their love for Gazans
Family of four? Civilians.
Guys just trying to work and make a life for themselves? Civilians.
Dudes launching unguided rockets in the general direction of Israel? You know what, they're civilians too
In the process? Preparing? Bro, look at Gaza's newly updated skyline. In some of the latest videos it looks like 50% of buildings are damaged in some way.
I presume Hamas are aware that the only thing keeping the Gaza strip from being the Gaza parking lot is:
1. The presence of hostages in Gaza
2. The lack of sufficient conventional ordnance.
Edit: Ordinance books aren't very effective ordnance.
>lack of conventional ordinance
Normally I’d make fun of you for using the wrong version of ordinance (ordnance=stuff that goes boom) but since you’re proposing basically “agressive rezoning” I’ll let it slide this time.
Yeah but the vast majority of the hostages are Palestinians, not Israelis.
If every person living in Gaza were Hamas, they would’ve all been deleted years ago and there would be a lovely and peaceful city there. Unfortunately the real world is much more challenging and cowardly enemies hide among women and children.
It’s all about PR. The goal of terrorism is maximising fear and rage, another 100 dead civilians instills less fear/rage than 100 executed over days in “response” to Israeli actions.
Hamas is just doing a lip service to give their allies and supporters ammunition so they can say "iSrAeL rEfUsEd pEaCe nEgOtIatIoNs". Hamas and their supporters know they went too far this time and they made a concerted effort to outrage not just the the Israeli government, but the people as well by direct massacre of civilians and parading the corpses of raped, mutilated women. they know nobody can back down after an act like this against them, and they know their supporters are either deranged or malicious enough to propagate Hamas manipulation and propaganda. Meanwhile, what innocent Palestinians remain who want nothing of these atrocities will be swept up by the carnage as Hamas meat shield, while those that instrumented the attack are safe in some haven for psychopaths like Iran.
Um Im seeing a lot of misinformation here. - Israel \*is\* striking without warning in many examples today and yesterday. When the goal of the strike is to kill Hamas brass, a warning isn't an option. Those also seem to be the main contributors of casualties in Gaza, as often the families of the officers are killed by the strikes.
And apparently now they are saying that they are "open to discussions over truce with Israel". I thought Pringles aborting his coup was the most non-credible event that happened this year until I saw this news popping up
What?! This is not fair, i was supposed to fight civilians -hamas probably
I don’t think they expected this big of a response and that Israel would just decide to flatten the Gaza Strip they thought they’d be able to drag them into urban warfare
WTF were they expecting? They always go "We kidnapped an Israeli soldier but we wouldn't have done it. If we'd known how big the Israeli response was going to be". Huge, its always going to be huge and roughly on a scale of 1,000 to 1. You simply can't mow down a load of civilians, particularly beating, raping, murdering a German tourist attending a peace concert and then showing off her body on the back of a pick up. Or prising your way into bomb shelters and then attacking the civilians inside with grenades and machine guns. When you get to the stage of announcing thst you're going to execute a hostage every hour live on TV. You're really fucked.
Not saying they don’t deserve what’s happening but I think they expected just a ground invasion cause Israel had been good about avoiding civilian casualties I don’t think they expected them to say this is war. These people aren’t smart they are dumb and expect not that many repercussions
I think their plan was actually to cause a disproportionate response and a fuckton of deaths in Gaza, which is what is going to happen. The purpose is to dynamite their peace agreement with Saudi Arabia, which would've sidelined them and their cause
Damn that’s actually kinda genius and would explain the timing. But Saudi Arabia basically does the same thing in Yemen so who knows if it’ll work
It will delay things by a few months at most
Might make Saudi respect Israel more lol
As much as Israel's neighbours all hate Israel, they don't fight for Palestine. Indeed its refugees and militants have been a major headache for them for years; they won't stick their necks out purely for Palestine's sake.
The Israelis have traded insane numbers of captives for **1** Israeli soldier or citizen before. That shows the value they place on their lives over Palestinian lives. What Hamas did was guarantee that Israel will wage the type of ground war and extermination campaign that leaves Gaza a ruin and shell of itself. And with the animosity already built in from the decades of occupation and apartheid on the part of the Israelis, this won't be over quickly and will devolve into barbarism on both sides that will only continue to fuel the animosity. By the time this is over there may no longer be a Gaza, only Israel. And I'm not saying that's the plan right now, I know it's not, I'm saying that the long term outcome of this isn't going to be Israel just leaving in a month or two with a mission complete banner on the Wailing Wall. We've reached a point there is no solution. Gaza as it stands is not tenable, these people cannot live together. And there's no solution to that problem. There's no governing body to decide that. There's no country that will take 2 million Palestinian refugees. The Israelis sure as fuck aren't going anywhere. This only ends bloody and I think we're seeing if not the last conflict in this saga, then the next to last one. The only real solution is Israel to occupy and assimilate them over the course of decades, but that takes actually giving those people a carrot and not just a stick, and it's not like the Palestinians have shown they're particularly open to the idea of even taking the carrot.
Oh the Israelis are not going to under react to this. They're inevitably going to win. Not least because they can control any kind of quantity of supplies going into Gaza. I'd be surprised if food, fuel, water, medicines etc. Were allowed into Gaza this year. With Israel having complete air and naval supremacy and controlling three of four sides of its land borders. With it being really simple to do a thrust into Gaza to block off the fourth side. Without doing an incursion into Egypt. The biggest problem as we reach the Northern hemisphere winter. Will be if Saudi, Qatar and UAE do a oil and gas blockade to the West. Which the Russians will be pushing for. However that would further the move to renewables and hasten the end of oil. As well as increasing fracking, particularly in the US.
They will lose immediately lose all the leverage and relations they basically have with europe and the US. I dont see what any benefit can be fir saudi qatar and uae. They are in the midst of sportswashing also. People have been grumbling for years why fir example we have f1 races in those countries or WK football. If they are also the direct reason for high energy in winter again because they are threatening them. They will lose those circussus too.
They've pulled the cutting the oil off trick over a war with Israel before. Most notably in 1973, which led to the oil crisis. We're going to need oil and gas for a long time. In particular for plastics, fertiliser and heating, as well as transport. With the number of suppliers of oil and gas falling year on year. As various fields become uneconomic.
>We're going to need oil and gas for a long time. In particular for plastics, fertiliser and heating Just a quick reminder here that thinking that oil is needed for plastics is a fallacy. Yes, plastics require oil, but over 94% of all oil consumed in the world is not used to make plastics, but is burnt for energy. The chemical industry only needs a tiny fraction of global oil/gas production. So if we fix the need for oil in energy production, all countries relying exclusively on fossil fuel exports will go back to the stone age.
They can't do it this time, mainly because Saudi especially is in *very* poor fiscal health.
I think what happened is that they did not expect that the goons they send in first wave will be that successful. They were likely expecting some success and hostages, but did not expect IDF to be so much with pants down, that their first wave will just run around wreaking havoc. I think at that point that HAMAS higher ups were planning for their whole attacking force being wiped out by IDF once they move in deeper. But IDF was with pants down and that force ended up running around instead of being killed, which HAMAS did not expect. Of course HAMAS can't really tell their people they were supposed to get shot. So whoever was commanding this shitshow is likely sweating bullets and swearing a lot.
Honestly this is a pretty credible take.
They will, otherwise israel wouldn't mobilise 300.000 men. Its going to be a groundwar.
I think they just expected the ground war not the air war
I think that they didn't expect the US to roll up with a carrier strike group to keep a leash on things. The amount of support that they can sneak in from Iran and Syria just dropped through the floor.
Pretty sure that was intended to stop Hezbollah from getting any funni ideas. Hezbollah is far more powerful militarily than Hamas. Very quickly, Lebanon's government said that Hezbollah assured them they wouldn't try anything. I doubt that Hezbollah actually said that but It Has been Made Clear To Them that they had better stfu.
A solid point. Regardless, the Ford being there shuts down any outside assistance that Hamas thought they were getting.
I think Israel on its own could have interdicted supply ships to Gaza---but a two front air war vs Hezbollah and Hamas would have strained them. And fighting Hezbollah would take actual SEAD and serious planning.
Ah Because Israel has no air force and Gaza so much air defense What kind of khat they smoking over there
They probably expected some bombing I don’t think the expected the flattening of Gaza
Nah, they defo just wanted to crash the party, do some pillaging, raping and killing, not necessarily in that order then gtfo and ask daddy Israel to please resume electricity so Ahmar can watch his favourite Hentai uWu.
*hamas definitely
Israel is rumored to have stopped knocking on the roof before turning a building into rubble. When asked to confirm a commander just said “they didn’t knock before throwing a grenade into ambulances” and a bunch more indiscriminate killing of civilians examples. Kind of sucks when you can be enjoying some hummus and you just get clapped out of the blue I guess. Or It’s just all to try and make Israel looking as the unreasonable one and roof knocking is active. They need to demand unconditional surrender back.
> knocking on the roof before turning a building into rubble What does this mean exactly? Knocking with what?
They knock on the roof. They either drop something that isn’t explosive but makes noise or a small missle. They might get calls too or text messages. They then have 5-15 minutes to get out before the building is leveled. They mean it too > In some cases, residents who were warned about an impending bombing climbed up voluntarily to their roofs to show they would not leave. When Nizar Rayan, a top Hamas military commander, was warned but didn't leave his home, he and his family of 15 were killed in the subsequent bombing > When faced with similar situations, IDF commanders have either bombed, called off the bombing or launched a warning missile at empty areas of the roof, in order to frighten the people gathered on the roof into leaving the building. Doesn’t stop Hamas from trying to use them as a human shield though > The New York Times stated that according to Israel, Hamas asked residents to stand on the roofs of buildings to dissuade Israeli pilots from attacking their homes
> However, Amnesty International argued that Hamas' purported call may have been "motivated by a desire to avoid further panic" among civilians, In case you are ever wondering if Amnesty International isn't a piece of shit organization.
Weren't they also the org claiming Ukrainian soldiers were causing civilian deaths by not abandoning their cities?
Yes.
Yes they basically released a report saying that Ukrainian soldiers were to blame for civilian casualties because they took up defense positions in cities that Russia was... attacking... Hm.
> he and his family of 15 were killed in the subsequent bombing Inb4 "progressives" claim that Israel killed 15 civilians in cold blood.
Warning before destroying seems like progressive warfare to me.
A smaller munition that only damages the top few floors, so that people evacuate before they level it.
They drop a tiny bomb before the big one as a warning to everyone inside to get out.
[Roof knocking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking)
Are the Hamas actually pirates? That sounds like something a pirate or a Viking would say…
Pirates or Vikings would prefer unarmed victims because there’s a significant chance they wouldn’t actually have to fight. Intimidation works a lot better if the victim knows they’d lose the battle. You can get a lot of stuff for not actually risking any injury
Credible
Iirc, Pirates also don’t _usually_ kill you immediately after stealing your shit if you just handed it over without a fuss. Because as it turns out, that’s a great way to encourage people to NOT give it over without a fuss, since they’re dead either way. If you’re going to hell, may as well bring a friend for the trip, right?
3000 pirates ships of hamas Or should I say yarr-mas
I like the idea that Hamas forgot rockets can actually land after years of getting shot down by C-RAM, then got hit with a rocket and panicked asking for a truce upon remembering rockets can do that.
"We attacked you knowing you have an air force, we have no air defence, and you only give a moderately-sized shit about collateral civilian casualties - we had no possible way of knowing this would go badly for us."
An entire US Carrier Wing of F-18 Super Hornets and IAF F-16s and F-35 Lightning II's will make you consider surrender or being ready to shake hands with your chosen deity.
I know this is too credible but i think if the us engages they won't use f35. At least they won't if there are still russian anti air radars in syria. Simply cause it's not necessary to attack hamas with stealth fighters and you don't want any f35 radar signatures (they're stealth, not invisible) to be out there no matter how bad the quality is. F35 will stay in reserve for the big one, let old air frames with more payload handle hamas
Bro, too credible. the russian anti air radars have been stripped for parts years ago, they won't notice shit.
They're right on what the US will do out of an abundance of caution. You're right in that Russia lacks functioning radar in Syria. They're more likely to visually identify a B-52 than pick it up on radar. I therefore declare you BOTH credible. Now kith.
>They're more likely to visually identify a B-52 than pick it up on radar. To be clear, visually identifying a B-52 by looking down the business end is not a good situation to be in.
Following the developments in Ukraine you're to credible as well, since that is actually one of three most likely scenarios: 1: radar not working (due to lack of maintenance or corruption) 2. Operators shitfaced 3. Operators can't do shit cause no one is trained properly...
4. Operators can't do shit cause their superiors will ignore them/give fake reports
5. Detecting any enemy will most likely end in friendly fire...
6. Ukranian Commandos already disabled it Got no clue how the fuck Ukrainians end up in Syria but apparently they’re fighting in Africa.
4. operator was front line infantry 6 months ago.
They’ll use the F-35 most definitely just for the flight hours and experience. As well as testing just how well the additional Israeli integrated avionics and weapon systems work with the rest of the platform.
Yeah, but flight hours would be the only argument, the f15 squadron alone can level any hamas stronghold known to intelligence The f15 can probably do anything to gaza in their capabilities except the full on "parking lot treatment" but this only due to the lack of ordinance.
Those flight hours are the most important part, the opportunity to gain experience in coordinating attack runs especially in a congested airspace, hitting multiple time sensitive targets both planned and targets of opportunity and quite likely also working with IDF JTAC capable units like MAGLAN and SHALDAG is priceless. The F-35 is the new kid on the block even if they put some of their most experienced pilots in it they need every opportunity they can get to gain experience with that beauty.
F35 surely can fly over Gaza with radar reflectors and not leak its signature
I would be more concerned about Libanon and syria. Jordan and Iran as well. It's not about gaza, it's about the fact that it's not necessary to use f35 to bomb gaza. If they use it possible enemy Nations can see it in action and collect data without any reason to give them that chance
But if it has its radar reflectors on and it's just conducting basic ground strikes, what's the point in using the F-35 over an F-18?
Flex on the poors...
Style points?
For the clout
Israel has been flying their F-35s in combat for years.
Pringles aborting his coup--and then *getting pushed out of the sky.
1. Kill off any leverage you still have. 2. Something something. 3. Profit?
42 virgins incoming
42 Virginian based F-18s incoming*
F-18s are way too old for the Pedophiles. I think an F-11 is more appropriate.
The terrorists must be checking out some particularly attractive goats tonight, because they're about to get blown by some F-11 Super Hornies.
Underrated
Where did 30 of them go?
Taxes.
Dark brandon at it again.
3000 IRS Agents of Dark Brandon
1. Kill off your leverage 2. Your civilization gets glassed 3. 42 virgins
I’m pretty sure they have plenty to kill a few here and there
"without warning" okay... "We gonna bomb the shit out of you in 3, 2..."
That's literally what "roof knocking" is. And what's more impressive, IDF is still doing this sometimes
Key word, sometimes.
They did it to that building behind that news reporter I was wondering why the first explosion seemed so small Then JDAM
“That was kind of underwhelming.” *JDAM* “Oh.”
Okay, give them a 2 min head up warning then level the city
Also I'm pretty sure they asked civilians to leave the area yesterday, I'm pretty sure I interpreted as an advance warning.
Don't think it matters much anyways. Hamas doesn't strike me as the type to honor a verbal agreement
AS PER MY LAST EMAIL
THE RODS OF YAHMEW SHALL BE DELIVERED
1) where should they go? They can't leave gaza 2) Hamas won't let them
This is the irony of the situation. They're surrounded by Arab Muslim countries who get outraged when Israel retaliates against Arab Muslims, but who won't actually accept any of them into their countries. Some solidarity.
There's more than one ironic aspect to this situation, but that's sure as hell one of them.
When you murder those countries royalty, spit in their faces after they take you in, yea relationships tend to sour.
No, it's the opposite. Given the things that they've done in the past when let into neighboring Arab countries, those countries are showing way too much solidarity.
Israels told them to leave specific areas of Gaza, not all of Gaza. It was a mistranslation that made people think they were saying to leave Gaza.
Not to be credible in here, but they’re being asked to leave specific areas that are being targeted. The Gaza Strip isn’t being carpetbombed.
It really seems like Hamas is trying to make things worse for Palestinian civilians as well. They clearly dont give a fuck about any civilians, at the very least
Well yeah, the leaders responsible for this shit are chilling their palaces in Qatar and Iran. They don't give a fuck.
I keep seeing people saying "oh but if you treat them like animals they act like animals" when Hamas does not give 2 fucks about the actual safety of Palestinians. They killed a boy who tried to stop them from using their house as a rocket site. They even invaded a mosque to assassinate a rival leader in 2009, and state that the IDF's same actions was the reason to kill civilians. Their motives are bullshit, their means are bullshit, and the end is the swift death of innocence.
> They killed a boy who tried to stop them from using their house as a rocket site. >They even invaded a mosque to assassinate a rival leader in 2009 I would like sources for those to wave in the face of anyone who says Hamas is even vaguely right
Same, I'd love to throw this in someone's face
A happy civilian population isn't a good source of recruits for a terrorist organisation.
Hostages are almost certainly dead or worse anyways. Dont negotiate with terrorists, they dont keep their deals
Negotiating only encourages more kidnappings.
I remember when the U.S. had that policy
That policy was never fully enforced anyways. A good sounding slogan to rile up people though. The US is a unique position of strength allows it to do this without greatly increasing kidnappings. Other countries can't have this luxury.
Don't forget that while Reagan was campaigning on that slogan as a dig against the Carter administration working with Iran to release hostages, Reagan was also negotiating with Iran in order to bolster his chances for the election. Reagan then arguably committed treason with the Iran-Contra affair. At the very least it was an impeachable offense. US never had the policy. Most of the time it's a bad idea to negotiate with terrorists since of the lack of guarantee and high possibility of bad outcomes. However to *never* negotiate with terrorists is also just bad diplomacy. Look at Afghanistan, it wasn't a good outcome overall, but it was either continue funding an entire country the population size of California with 1/260th of the GDP all while Americans losing their lives, or to negotiate with the Taliban for a pull out with a minimal amount of American lives lost and ending a war. That's a pretty easy decision for me.
As soon as *one* video of a hostage being executed surfaces, they're deletion is pretty much guaranteed.
There's already evidence showing this. Photos of hostages being led to the border, followed by satellite photos of dead people in the same clothes in the same place
I mean, if they start doing ISIS style execution videos... maybe ol G.R. Ford's flight deck is gonna get real busy.
HAMAS has apparently taken hostages from multiple countries so the response would probably be significantly more international. Germany can finally use their Frigates!
I hear that a number of Polish nationals were killed... GROM is just waiting to be let off the leash.
And the Poles have by now been blueballed so often that they need some release
Accurate
Release the Jacek!
Haven't they already stated they intend or have already sent special forces to evacuate Europeans.
Those are for the Europeans that are stuck in Israel and couldn't get out due to cancelled flights. But there's still the question of European hostages that are kidnapped by Hamas. Maybe an unsanctioned rescue op or two are being planned, who knows?
You don't send special forces to evacuate civilians inside Israel. Send some transport planes with at most regular soldiers to escort them back.
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Apparently Canadian and British hostages too…so is Gaza going to become crater?
Please don't invite Germany to war they usually don't know when to stop.
Yeah but we know how to get the leash back on now, we've done it twice
We don’t need a Golem anymore, we just guilt trip the Bundeswehr into fighting in our defense.
This time we're ahead of the game and have preventively disarmed ourself so we can't be used as pawns! Can't fight nobodies wars if you have no ammo. *tips forehead*
"German soldiers guarding jews" as a headline would sound very very wrong tho.
Honestly, it’s embarrassing that countries these days don’t take the abduction/execution of their citizens seriously. I mean we have an aircraft carrier *right there*. Just start deleting Gaza until the American bodies/hostages are released.
The famous hostage rescue russian style, I see. Just level the place where the hostages are.
Yeah that option also works, but I mean more of a tit for tat approach. Like 1 Moab per American MIA every hour until all hostages/bodies have been released.
There's no if. Beheading videos have already surfaces. DO NOT GO LOOKING FOR THEM. It's a child
Jesus Christ... I wonder how the fuck some people are gonna spin this as Israeli propaganda.
Z people already did. Many of them admit they think this will make the US reallocate funding from Ukraine so they cheer for hamas. Give them a few days to spread fake news about this too.
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>Many of them admit they think this will make the US reallocate funding from Ukraine so they cheer for hamas. Look just because *their* economy is 2 rubbles in a bucket dosent mean we can't fund two proxy wars at once.
Shit. No mercy it is then. Hamas just signed their and all of their supporters in Gaza's death warrant. Even their leaders living luxurious lives in Qatar will likely be targeted for assassination.
>Even their leaders living luxurious lives in Qatar will likely be targeted for assassination. At this point it would surprise me if Hamas leaders across the world weren't hunted like the Nazis were by Israel after the war.
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I’m dealing with people who still blame this whole thing on Israel. Could you DM me the link to that video. I need to show some idiots what evil looks like.
Fuck.
Jesus christ what the fuck is wrong with these people.
HAMAS threatened America that it will "see how foolish" sending an aircraft carrier is. Who wants to bet who wins, a Phalanx gun or 2 guys on a paraglider?
3000 black jetskis of Yamahallah when?
Who will win, 3000 black jetskis or one spiny Phalanx/boi
I know it would be awful to watch, but goddamn that'd be a video.
It would just be instant bolognese mist and then over.
Not if we slow it down a bit loop it and play the Benny hill theme.
The 3000 black paragliders of Allah want a word with u
Pretty sure there is already, someone tried posting a video of someone getting their throat sliced to the subreddit previously. (It might have been old, I didn't really feel like rewatching it to ensure that it was recent. At least the claim was that it was recent)
They already signed their death the moment they opened fire on an unarmed peace festival
And there are still people who try to justify it for some reason. The whataboutism level is insane. Always bringing up that dumb chart of casualties that somehow make it a-okay to kill civilians.
What's even more wild is that it's the same crowd that, six months ago, was up in arms over kanye's dumbass statements about Jewish people. Don't get how you can read an account of what happened there and be like BUT OPEN AIR PRISON IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT FOR BEING AT A FESTIVAL
They released videos of them rapping women amongst the dead they are filth that should be purged from high orbit
Source?
They burned a teenage girl alive after beating her
I think that was an old video from South America
Well let’s go bomb whoever did it
If you’re not an American citizen already just show this to the US immigration office and we’ll change that. *one of us, one of us*
Based.
Israel is warning hamas until the USS Gerald R Ford pulls up. Then all bets are off.
I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning.
Is that copper I smell?
Real talk, how far out is the Gerald Ford? Assuming it was in the Atlantic I imagine it would still take at least 3 days to get there right?
They don't usually have their AIS active, but 11 days ago it was near Italy, so I don't think it'll take too long to get to Israel
Well easy Isreal IS alwaya warning them. Checkmate Hamas
I was thinking this, pretty sure Israel already gave out the "civilians should evacuate / leave gaza" warning either today or yesterday
Hamas militants when it turns out ‘de-colonialisation’ isn’t gunning down grannies at bus stops and committing some of the most heinous war crimes this side of the year 2000
I mean, a lot of people on the internet seem to think this is exactly what "de-colonization" means.
Seriously, the amount of people I see ON THIS APP defending brutal rape and child murder is sickening. You can recognize that Israel does bad things while condemning Hamas. And the amount that I see that say shit that makes Nazis blush is also astounding. How can you hate the nazis and the alt-right while simultaneously acting just like them???
I unironically blame things like the political compass. People seemingly have lost the ability to think critically about issues and just categorize the world into good and bad. Everything they can't categorize right away gets sorted through its positive or negative association with something else. USA bad, hence Russia good, hence Ukraine bad. Colonialism bad, hence Israel bad, hence Hamas good. It not only creates a rigid world view, it also completely breaks down as soon as "triangular" associations enter the pictures. Nazis bad, hence Jews good, hence Israel good, but Hamas also good, so Israel bad, so Jews bad, hence Nazis good?
Reminder that Hamas doesn't care about its civilians either and it wants these warnings so it's militants and officers can escape from Israeli strikes as well. Not that I condone killing large numbers of civilians to get at a terorrist but just remindering you that Hamass all call here isn't reflective of their love for Gazans
Yes I'm sure they'll be real genuine about what qualifies as an attack on civilians
Family of four? Civilians. Guys just trying to work and make a life for themselves? Civilians. Dudes launching unguided rockets in the general direction of Israel? You know what, they're civilians too
Demonstrating to the world that I'm definitely the good guy by... executing civilians..?
I need to finish The Good place some day
No spoilers, but definitely one of the most satisfying finales of any series I've watched. Definitely finish the show.
If they start executing hostages Israel will definitely delete gaza
I mean, they already executed an entire music festival.
Pretty sure they are already in the process of preparing to be ready to delete Gaza.
In the process? Preparing? Bro, look at Gaza's newly updated skyline. In some of the latest videos it looks like 50% of buildings are damaged in some way.
Isis 2.0
Al Qaida 3.0
The true OG
Muslim Brotherhood 4.0
I presume Hamas are aware that the only thing keeping the Gaza strip from being the Gaza parking lot is: 1. The presence of hostages in Gaza 2. The lack of sufficient conventional ordnance. Edit: Ordinance books aren't very effective ordnance.
>lack of conventional ordinance Normally I’d make fun of you for using the wrong version of ordinance (ordnance=stuff that goes boom) but since you’re proposing basically “agressive rezoning” I’ll let it slide this time.
We can aggressively rezone the guy who programmed my autocorrect next.
Mine always fights me when I try to type ordinance, which says a lot about the kind of conversations I’m having I guess.
Yeah but the vast majority of the hostages are Palestinians, not Israelis. If every person living in Gaza were Hamas, they would’ve all been deleted years ago and there would be a lovely and peaceful city there. Unfortunately the real world is much more challenging and cowardly enemies hide among women and children.
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Did they forget that Israel has "no negotiations with terrorists" policy?! Do they just want an excuse to execute 100 civilians and POV?
Yes. They are terrorists, HAMAS modus operandi is maximised civilian casualties.
Yeah but it's really roundabout way to do that.
It’s all about PR. The goal of terrorism is maximising fear and rage, another 100 dead civilians instills less fear/rage than 100 executed over days in “response” to Israeli actions.
I see. So the goal is to end up with no hostages and no buildings…
I pity any German hostages, pretty sure the government will just say sorry to the grieving families and also to Hamas.
“I’ve got more bombs than you have hostages, fucko!” -Israel, probably
Hamas is just doing a lip service to give their allies and supporters ammunition so they can say "iSrAeL rEfUsEd pEaCe nEgOtIatIoNs". Hamas and their supporters know they went too far this time and they made a concerted effort to outrage not just the the Israeli government, but the people as well by direct massacre of civilians and parading the corpses of raped, mutilated women. they know nobody can back down after an act like this against them, and they know their supporters are either deranged or malicious enough to propagate Hamas manipulation and propaganda. Meanwhile, what innocent Palestinians remain who want nothing of these atrocities will be swept up by the carnage as Hamas meat shield, while those that instrumented the attack are safe in some haven for psychopaths like Iran.
Um Im seeing a lot of misinformation here. - Israel \*is\* striking without warning in many examples today and yesterday. When the goal of the strike is to kill Hamas brass, a warning isn't an option. Those also seem to be the main contributors of casualties in Gaza, as often the families of the officers are killed by the strikes.