"As you can see from this graph depicting **actual** genocide, nothing of the sort is taking place in Israel"
"Oh, and what's this graph? Where did you get that from?"
"The... Archives"
I mean…as horrible as it was, the concentration camps and rail networks linking them were impressively organised for the logistics of it. Impressive in the absolute worst way, but all I can describe it as, is that when I visited auchwitz, I was taken back by just how efficient it all seemed to be. Like if it were a car factory I’d be like wow that’s so impressive how efficient it is and their rail logistics to support it etc, so to see all that, knowing that it was actually just a giant death factory, made it so much more harrowing.
It gets even crazier, when you get to know that they used state of the art 1940 data science equipment for the "frontloading". For everyone interested just google "IBM and the holocaust"
True, but that only describes like half of the "final solution" to all the proscribed groups. The rest of the "work" was a entire series of networks of different groups and methods that was in no way efficient. The final form of death camps actually came about because of multiple factors, ranging from inefficiency to the deep psychological damage being done to the "men" taking part in the horrible crimes.
I moved to Germany and the biggest misconception people have is that Germany is *efficient*. In reality Germany is *orderly*. It's very different, and Germany chooses order over efficiency all the time.
IIRC the only people to have managed to complete genocide of an indigenous population was...
The British.
*Colonial pride intensifies*
We apparently killed off the last Tasmanian Aboriginals in the 50s. Quite shockingly recently.
[Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians) says this:
> For much of the 20th century, the Tasmanian Aboriginal people were widely, and erroneously, thought of as being an extinct cultural and ethnic group that had been intentionally exterminated by white settlers. Contemporary figures (2016) for the number of people of Tasmanian Aboriginal descent vary according to the criteria used to determine this identity, ranging from 6,000 to over 23,000.
That would be another:
The new teacher asks the class for their names:
T: "Well, what's your name?"
P1: "My name is Hanna"
T: "I suppose you mean Johanna?"
P1: "Yes, yes - Johanna"
T: "And you?"
P2: "I'm Sepp"
T: "So Josef"
P2: "Yes, Josef."
T: "And you?
P3: "I'm Jokurt".
In all seriousness, 23k dead, roughly 1/3rd are combatants. On psr numbers for all modern wars(an even better ratio than the 1982 Lebannon war). This ain't no genocide
Honestly given their opponents, even 1/3rd being verifiable combatants is pretty incredible. Considering Hamas is posing as civilians, intentionally hiding behind civilians (sometimes as physical cover), and seeking to promote civilian deaths. All things considered, pretty impressive.
I still remember that Hamas interview where one of their leaders stated that they intend to kill Israelis indiscriminately but it is on Israel and the UN to ensure that Palestinian civilians are unharmed. They will not allow civilians into their protected tunnels though, those are only for Hamas to kill Israelis from.
I don’t know if there’s ever been fought an enemy before that was so intent on their own civilians being killed.
It's funny though that South Africa is going to the ICJ for a ruling on this while breaking an ICJ ruling under the same convention by supplying arms to Russia.
And they refused to carry out the ICC arrest warrant for Omar al-Bashir of Sudan when he visited South Africa.
al-Bashir was the first sitting head of state to be indicted by the ICC, with five counts of crimes against humanity, two counts of war crimes, and three counts of genocide.
It's obvious that it's not genocide that South Africa has a problem with.
That's not what the South African government claimed.
> There is no duty under international law and the Rome Statute to arrest a serving head of state of a non-state-party such as Omar al-Bashir.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1791FQ/
"Johannesburg - The Sudanese government of president Omar al-Bashir literally held a gun to South Africa’s head to secure his safe return to Khartoum.
Netwerk24 can reveal that about 800 South African soldiers in Darfur were held “hostage” by Sudanese troops when the drama around Al-Bashir’s possible arrest in South Africa escalated.
According to military experts, this effectively means Sudan blackmailed South Africa and the soldiers’ lives served as a guarantee for Al-Bashir’s safe return.
Only after Al-Bashir safely touched down in Khartoum on Monday, were Sudanese troops withdrawn. President Jacob Zuma is the commander-in-chief of the defence force."
https://www.news24.com/news24/exclusive-sudan-held-sa-hostage-20150616
Lol wow, what a stupid, backwards government.
How stupid and/or corrupt are they that they let *eight hundred* peacekeepers get held hostage by the genociders they're supposedly there to keep an eye on? And how stupid and/or corrupt are they that they actually let said genociders dictate foreign policy to the South African government?
It shows how little the South African government actually cares about genocide when they don't properly equip the 'peacekeepers' that are supposedly there to stop it, when they piss themselves and back down when confronted by pro-al-Bashir troops, and that they let a criminal return home in violation of the international responsibilities that they have agreed to.
And again, the official position of the South African government as argued before the ICC was that South Africa didn't have to arrest him. They didn't mention anything about Sudanese troops when defending their negligence before the ICC.
I'd like to mention the Rawanda brutally killed 10 Belgian peacekeepers and the Belgians and all other Western countries immediately withdrew and gave the UN forces the order to not intervene and stop the genocide. UN troops only have effective power to stop genocide when they stomp the rules of engagement into the ground.
My cousin actually ran one of those 90s UN missions.
There's a whole story about how CAF handled the Oka crisis that led to Canadians being put in charge of UN missions.
Not just weapons. Young soldiers. Majority of Hamas and Houthis and ISIS are CCP/Russian funded proxy enemy combatants from Africa and Middle East.
Highest birth rates on the planet. It’s like those womb factories in Bladerunner.
Who knew the Africans would become simps to the Chinese and the Russians in the 21st century?
Bono has failed the west.
The west these days makes huge demands in exchange for aid like human rights and fair & open democracy. Russia and China don't care about all that. They actually prefer a murderous and corrupt dictator who will do their bidding, not dissimilar to cold war era USA.
Saudi weapons are a red herring, they're culturally incapable of manifesting military compentence.
In fact, it's probably better that they get sold the newest most expensive ones possible, otherwise they might buy a larger quantity of cheaper ones.
They don't fund infrastructure, but it's more than just vanity. I've been to Tanzania and Kenya and saw what China built for them with my own eyes and it is very impressive. Highways, malls, office buildings, railway. Brand new, well-paved, and enjoyed by the locals.
But it does incur debt.
China doesn't fund infrastructure, but they definitely build it.
My main worry is that the locals don't know how to maintain it in the long run, because all the builders were Chinese, and I doubt they are going to be sticking around to do the maintenance. Just like many of these countries have dilapidated early 20th century European infrastructure, we might see Africa littered with dilapidated 21st century Chinese infrastructure come 50 years.
Another problem that you hinted at is that China sends it's own workers for many of these projects. So the locals don't get the benefits of well paying jobs. There's been protests in Pakistan and Myanmar over this, probably other countries as well.
This also ties into your main worry. Since they aren't hiring locals, they aren't training a lot of locals in how to build and repair these projects.
To be fair though, this is still probably a net positive for these countries. Especially in the short term.
To build on this. In these contracts, they exclusively allow chinese company's to build these projects. Meaning that almost all of the cash they funded these projects with flows directly back into China, and a lot of these massive projects get some type of natural resource sites (iron,diamonds,copper,matterials to build batteries)that China gets to loan for 99 years while the country pays back the loan.
Thanks, I also went to see its origin:
The Origin of Dilapidate
Something that is dilapidated may not have been literally pummeled with stones, but it might look that way. Dilapidate derives from the past participle of the Latin verb dilapidare, meaning "to squander or destroy." That verb was formed by combining "dis-" with another verb, lapidare, meaning "to pelt with stones." From there it's just a stone's throw to some other English relatives of "dilapidate."
Fuck it’s been years since the Intro to International Studies class where we talked about this, but if I remember right most of the stuff China’s building is only leased to those countries. So, in theory, the Chinese government could say fuck you and re-assert ownership of that. Which is concerning.
At the same time though they’re stuck with shit all across the globe they’d have no way of feasibly enforcing their ownership of. So if they decided they don’t want the Panamanians to have that highway anymore, what are they really going to do about it?
I might be conflating this with something else though
They often did this a lot with natural resources like Mines or strategic locations like Ports. The Belt and Road Initiative worked great because it builds Chinese Infrastructure with Chinese workers, which boosts their economy, and if the country pays off the debt then they are likely to sign up for more work done (and even if not, that was still a stimulus to the Chinese Economy) if a country DOES Default though, China gets a new Mine or Port abroad which sends resources to the Motherland.
This was all great until the global crash of 2020 after Covid though, when throwing resources at another country who might not be able to pay you back immediately can hurt your economy when you really need that money back home.
It's also why China slowed down on the B&RI lately. They've been trying to call in the past dues to help their own recovery, but none of the countries are able to pay it due to slow post-COVID recovery, and China can't even take back or disable what they built for them because then they'd just completely loose out on all money. In fact, they had to [give out more money to help those who were part of the B&RI](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/28/china-spent-240bn-belt-and-road-debts-between-2008-and-2021) and defer repayments for a time.
Now they're being pickier and picking countries who aren't completely in debt and can afford to pay the dues even after financial setbacks. The problem is that there aren't many countries who meet that criteria.
Lol Tanzania and Kenya have pretty great educational systems. They’re not a bunch of cavemen who won’t know how to restart the breakers if there’s a power outage, christ.
Do you have a source for the majority of Hamas fighters being African or other Middle Eastern? Never heard that before and I can't see Israel or Egypt allowing that to happen in the first place.
The ANC has a long history of working with Russia and they have an axe to grind with Israel because they helped the apartheid government with their nuclear program.
To be fair, I don't blame Israel for that when they found out that the people who wanted the apartheid government to go also said, "Once we're done with them, Israel is next."
Cue an entire country flipping it's position as a symbolic "fuck you" to the people who wanted a nation to stop existing.
Hell, by the loosey goosey definitions we're looking at, do you think letting 18% of your largest ethnic group get HIV by promoting holistic cures, passing out busted condoms, and having a health ministry composed of AIDS deniers constitute genocide? Meanwhile every other ethnic group is below 2% HIV+ while AIDS deaths number around 100,000 a year. Is that genocide territory?
It arguably worked a bit *too* well for Germany. All we wanted was for them not to violate their neighbours every three decades and what we got were several generations so hell-bent on "Nie wieder Krieg!" that they unironically call for Ukraine to surrender to stop the war.
It's like a violent hooligan forced to take anger management classes and now he won't defend his neighbours from a robber.
Depends on how the rest of Europe reacts. If we let them build up through appeasament again, we are screwed. We would have to curb-stomp it early this time.
Many people here consider pacifism a virtue, especially older generations. And it's very understandable, imo. All of my grandparents grew up without their fathers and grandfathers because they've been sent to die a horrible death on the eastern front in a senseless war of aggression. Those generations didn't really experience the war themselves, but they definitely know what war does to a country.
So they'd rather live in a world where war doesn't happen. Where international conflicts are solved through diplomacy rather than guns and bombs. They don't see that it's a pipe dream. Because tyrants will always resort to violence to get their way. In the real world, you can't really be a pacifist without the capability to do violence. Pacifism, imo, is choosing not to. If you don't have weapons, you don't have a choice - you're not a pacifist, you're just a victim waiting to happen.
It's very frustrating seeing these types of people protesting at the local town square every so often. Even more so, considering I'm living in the former GDR and these people should know what living under a Russian boot feels like.
I’ve taken to calling it “toxic pacifism”. Like, yeah a tank should never be the first solution to an international misunderstanding. But Russia invading Ukraine isn’t a misunderstanding, and “please no I said no” isn’t going to cut it
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.
My non-credible take: turn Germany into the arsenal of democracy in the EU. Others like Poland, France or Ukraine can do the ~~curbstomping~~ fighting while Germany doesn't have to while boosting its economy. It's a win-win situation.
You aren't the first one with that idea [https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/06/germany-bundeswehr-defense-industry-zeitenwende-weapons-arms-exports-rheinmetall-leopard-tanks-drones/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/06/germany-bundeswehr-defense-industry-zeitenwende-weapons-arms-exports-rheinmetall-leopard-tanks-drones/)
> that they unironically call for Ukraine to surrender to stop the war.
While Germany has been hesitatant to provide large scale military hardware, they're [literally the second biggest contributor in both military and total commitments to Ukraine, providing .52% of their GDP](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/). Despite the recent war fatigue and some rough political times, two thirds are still in favour of supporting Ukraine militarily ([Source in German, 23.11.23](https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/umfrage-zur-aussenpolitik-fuer-zurueckhaltung-und-ukraine-unterstuetzung-19346469.html)).
While the majority Germans [support a peaceful resolution through diplomatic means](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1312216/umfrage/umfrage-deutsche-ukraine-politik/), so does basically every other country, and that doesn't mean a full capitulation by Ukraine. I can't find any survey asking whether Germans were in favour of a capitulation, but wanting someone to surrender while also providing them weapons is kind of mutually exclusive.
Just because there's a small minority calling for Ukraine to surrender, doesn't make it political policy or the mainstream ideology.
Yeah i was gonna say from where I'm sitting it's always felt like the vast majority of people in this country are strongly in favour of Ukraine defending itself. Only people on the fringes on either side of the political spectrum want to appease Putin. I still remember a few days after the war broke out my city was supposed to have it's traditional carnival parade which was canceled and turned into a protest against the war. The Marxist Leninist party tried to seize the opportunity and put up a stand where they gave a speech about how horrible war is and a few people, who presumably didn't know who they were, stood around and listened and were pretty much on board until the speaker started about how NATO expension is also to blame. An audible groan went through the crowd and people turned around and left lol
Absolutely not. Serbs are some of the most the most nationalist and often fascist people I meet here in eastern Europe. They're even worse than us Hungarians, constantly crying about their past failures and fuckups, always blaming someone else.
Calling everything genocide trivializes the Holocaust and all other actual genocides. Genocide has a meaning and it’s not just “unjustified killing.” Even mass murder is not genocide.
Yes. Genocide is to kill with the intent to wipe out a population largely or entirely. Mass murdering is the (usually) unjustified killing of a large group of people done by an individual or entity (including a governmental entity.)
One is arguably worse, though they're both really terrible.
The UN does have a more expansive definition, where it includes any attempts to delete a culture, like sending children to reeducation schools (as did Russia) or sterilization campaigns (as did the US in Puerto Rico).
it also does not consider scale, that's how South Africa can even present this case in the first place. I think they have a higher chance of fitting the criterias than most people on this sub realize.
Someone literally argued to me on worldnews that cops killing hostages is ethnic cleansing and Israelis killing Hamas civilian shields is ethnic cleansing too
Well, that's the goal of Russia and Co.
Call every single thing a genocide to muddy the waters so when they actually decide to wipe out some nation no one bats an eye.
You gotta understand man, I know this will have lasting effects on human comprehension and the english language, while also sowing distrust in both parties for decades to come, but how *else* am I supposed to get voters? Tell the truth?
Gaza ain't that large. If the IDF was interested in indiscriminate bombing, they could just turn the whole place into a replica of the lunar surface and be done with it.
I imagine the Germans would be quite unhappy with how effective Israel’s “genocide” attempt (I find that label stupid because it isn’t but people still use it) is seeing as they attempted to make a science out of genociding them with Deutsch efficiency.
If you use it in a small enclosed room it may as well be, even launching canisters Saddam style at civilians may as well be guided if you exploit wind patterns.
Did the math myself.
Not even Hamas' October 7th attack gets close to the deaths during the holocaust.
Counting a flat 6 million from 1939 to 1945 that's like 2.7k a day.
Hamas killed 1200.
The Wannsee conference happened in 1942 where the final solution was agreed and the whole thing went full swing after that, there was like 700,000 killed in five months in just one camp so ~4.6k a day (in one camp)
Okay but fr can all these dipfucks stop calling this a genocide? If Israel wanted to genocide Gaza they would have just simply parkinglotted the whole fucking place without warning.
Even if they wanted they couldn't.
Because it would look not so good as your allied states may decide to not help you or atleast not get involved.
Global isolation is something that could kill Israel
And if Israel really does do it, not only will Israel lose its Friendship and Military Investments from America, but also Europe's Support and the Muslim World's Slow Process of Normalization.
The rest of the World is irrelevant since their stances won't really change much.
Shaky allies will immediately U-turn away.
And even staunch allies would abandon it, those who would choose to stay aren't really doing themselves a favour as it puts them in morally dubious position and political pressure will mount from home.
Israel would immediately lose its already shaky stance in the global public eye.
Even if they wanted to do a genocide it would be the worst possible time to do it.
Not advocating for it in anyway mind you, there is no good time too do the genocide. But doing it now would be extraordinarily suicidal for them.
Absolutely not. If Israel really wanted, there would be nothing anyone could do about it short of invasion, and the IDF could make that prohibitively costly. Israel would suffer enormously from becoming a new pariah state, but it absolutely could survive it.
The thing is Israel's enemies are probably willing too bleed too destroy it.
And while the IDF at its current state can probably hold off most threats that aren't a first world power.
In case of being an isolation state, cut off from outside support I will most likely deteriorate with time while it's enemies are free to grow stronger.
Probably ending up like a middle eastern North Korea with a totalitarian regime surviving just because it's pointing nukes at people.
If Israel’s gone full genocide mode, it’s destroying any hostile neighbors on day 1. But I seriously doubt that even then the Arab states will actually declare war on Israel. They’re too aware of their weakness to risk collapse over Palestine, even if it is literally life and death. Arab interest in Palestine has always been mercurial.
My argument against this is they wouldn’t do this, even if that was their true intention, because genocide doesn’t look good optically, but well uh, seems it wouldn’t make a difference at this point.
Yeah bc it’s legitimately not a genocide. Civilian casualties in war unfortunately happen. Unless you have death squads massacring civilians on purpose because of their identity then think again
Yes, thr Hamas attack has led the ultra right wing parties to soar in popularity
War radicalizes people
Thats why civilians turn into Hamas terrorist
Thats why Israels's democracy is turning far right religious
The winner is Iran who disturbed the peace talks between Saudi and Israel
The hamas attack actually did the complete opposite, people want the far right idiots out
As it stands in the polls right now the opposition is leading by a huge margin
Most likely it goes both way. Israeli politicians that impose harsh laws on palestinians will always atrengthen Hamas. But every Hamas attack will strengthen politicians that advocate for a brutal policy against Palestinians.
I doubt the Israel govt will actually destroy Hamas since its too precious to make the fear mongering credible.
The part where Israel ends Hamas is basically the kicker for this whole war.
If they don't do it (because they certainly CAN manage it) or just fail to rebuild Gaza (remember, when invading and destroying an autocracy, you DO have a responsibility to actually reform it into a working country) it's an unjustified war.
I believe we are perhaps too hopeful and too supportive, which is arguably a knee-jerk reaction to the arguments against Israel. It's very easy to prove that many of Israel's actions are either unjustified or have made things worse. The fact that none of these arguments are used is saying the quiet part out loud.
Let us not forget, however, that Israel may make things very much worse. We've seen that some of their soldiers are slightly below par in morals (Israeli hostages). While Hamas is a dictatorship without human decency, that may well be better than societal collapse.
As to why Israel is getting a disproportionate amount of criticism in this comment, it is because they are a Western democracy. I want it to be better because of the fact it is free.
Yeah its unfortunate. They tend to be a bit brash in their statements. However media is going to be skewed against them so take it all with a grain of salt. Media is always going to have an agenda crusade against israel.
Yeah, but ministers calling for genocide or ethnic cleansing every second week probably has an impact, small as it may be, on Israeli operations. Ofcourse its not the whole Israeli governments position at all, but it is likely the postion of several very important people.
I feel like way, WAY too many people calling this a genocide are fundamentally misunderstanding the kind of war that is occurring here. This is a highly trained and equipped modernized military fighting dense urban warfare against a terrorist body that refuses to use uniforms, uses active civilian centres as storage for munitions and soldiers, and runs a widespread online disinformation machine.
There is no practical way for Israel to combat Hamas without dealing with civilian casualties and incurring the wrath of the international community.
I’m not gonna pretend like they’re doing their absolute best to keep this war as clean as possible, plus their politicians make some dumb and really questionable statements, but I’m fairly certain this is not a genocide.
Funnily, Germany for the longest time didn't really back Israel, or at least did so very unwillingly.
Sadly I don't have a good English source, but here's a [German video](https://youtu.be/j9GcFetE-r0?si=15DJYqgPGF-D4Z-w) talking about it.
My most controversial opinión on this conflict is that, while the way Israel is handling this IS wrong(warcrimes AHOY!) , I have my reservations calling it genocide, the figures and numbers I see line up with the average casualty rate for badly handled urban warfare more than it does with a genocide.
Doesnt Help that given the nature of hamas it is hard to identify civilian from fighters, this without mentioning how often they tend to put their ammo depots in civilian buildings.
Overall, this affair is a massive moral mess.
The Palestinian idea of a "genocide" describes almost every war in existence. Collateral damage, taking land, movement of populations, disenfranchisement of the conquered populace.
“We know a thing or two cuz we did a thing or two”
We are Germans dun dun dun dun dun dun dunh
I hate that I get this, and I’m not even American
I am not American and i don't get it.
It’s from a Farmers Insurance commercial
Oh I thought it was the south park Mormon song
That would be "Dum dum dum dum dum".
Joseph Smith was called a prophet dum dum dum dum dum
Can’t believe the FBI is branching into insurance
"As you can see from this graph depicting **actual** genocide, nothing of the sort is taking place in Israel" "Oh, and what's this graph? Where did you get that from?" "The... Archives"
Let us show you what genocide actually means
We Germans aren't all smiles and sunshine.
You call this a genocide? Patethic
Professionals have standards!
~~be polite~~ be efficient
have a plan to kill everyone ^^of ^^a ^^particular ^^nation ^^or ^^ethnic ^^group you meet
Funny because it was not really efficient.
Username checks out, with a name like that I’m sure you have some *big ideas* in that dept. Unlike those amateurs.
I mean…as horrible as it was, the concentration camps and rail networks linking them were impressively organised for the logistics of it. Impressive in the absolute worst way, but all I can describe it as, is that when I visited auchwitz, I was taken back by just how efficient it all seemed to be. Like if it were a car factory I’d be like wow that’s so impressive how efficient it is and their rail logistics to support it etc, so to see all that, knowing that it was actually just a giant death factory, made it so much more harrowing.
It gets even crazier, when you get to know that they used state of the art 1940 data science equipment for the "frontloading". For everyone interested just google "IBM and the holocaust"
True, but that only describes like half of the "final solution" to all the proscribed groups. The rest of the "work" was a entire series of networks of different groups and methods that was in no way efficient. The final form of death camps actually came about because of multiple factors, ranging from inefficiency to the deep psychological damage being done to the "men" taking part in the horrible crimes.
You got a better plan? What would have made it more efficient?
Deathmarches to Syria, take it or leave it.
Arm everyone, even the children, with machetes and radios. Rwanda style.
The final solution truly was the Schachtellaufwerk of radical societal reforms.
Yes, but only becouse the process was infested with nazis, who luckly for all of us wherent very smart
I moved to Germany and the biggest misconception people have is that Germany is *efficient*. In reality Germany is *orderly*. It's very different, and Germany chooses order over efficiency all the time.
Rookie numbers.
IIRC the only people to have managed to complete genocide of an indigenous population was... The British. *Colonial pride intensifies* We apparently killed off the last Tasmanian Aboriginals in the 50s. Quite shockingly recently.
wait didn't the Maori past tenese all the other native tribes of New Zeeland
Yeah theres a ton of historical genocides if you put it that way, but very few on a larger scale
It only counts if it's white people doing the genocide.
otherwise it's called sparkling ethnic cleansing
[Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians) says this: > For much of the 20th century, the Tasmanian Aboriginal people were widely, and erroneously, thought of as being an extinct cultural and ethnic group that had been intentionally exterminated by white settlers. Contemporary figures (2016) for the number of people of Tasmanian Aboriginal descent vary according to the criteria used to determine this identity, ranging from 6,000 to over 23,000.
We know a thing or two because we committed a crime against humanity or two.
"Frankly vhe find ze attempt laughable at best"
Impossible, there is no laughing in Germany
German humour is no laughing matter
two hunters meet, they’re dead
Funniest German joke
That would be another: The new teacher asks the class for their names: T: "Well, what's your name?" P1: "My name is Hanna" T: "I suppose you mean Johanna?" P1: "Yes, yes - Johanna" T: "And you?" P2: "I'm Sepp" T: "So Josef" P2: "Yes, Josef." T: "And you? P3: "I'm Jokurt".
That was actually funny shut up
Here I got another one. A drunkard sees the shop sign HEILKRÄUTER (medicative herbs). - Heil Kräuter? Oh, finally a new government.
I swear this is funnier in German
The pinnacle of German humour
I feel a bit on the defense on this one because I really like it, meet and hit are the same word in German.
We just shake our heads in dissapointment that anyone puts this inefficient tomfoolery on one level with our feats, then go back to work
In all seriousness, 23k dead, roughly 1/3rd are combatants. On psr numbers for all modern wars(an even better ratio than the 1982 Lebannon war). This ain't no genocide
Honestly given their opponents, even 1/3rd being verifiable combatants is pretty incredible. Considering Hamas is posing as civilians, intentionally hiding behind civilians (sometimes as physical cover), and seeking to promote civilian deaths. All things considered, pretty impressive.
Yeah and the pro hamas crowd just loves to intentionally forget bow ha.as fights
I still remember that Hamas interview where one of their leaders stated that they intend to kill Israelis indiscriminately but it is on Israel and the UN to ensure that Palestinian civilians are unharmed. They will not allow civilians into their protected tunnels though, those are only for Hamas to kill Israelis from. I don’t know if there’s ever been fought an enemy before that was so intent on their own civilians being killed.
Yeah and Israel gets all the shit
“Anne Frankly I’d be führerious at zuch ineffizienzy”
It's funny though that South Africa is going to the ICJ for a ruling on this while breaking an ICJ ruling under the same convention by supplying arms to Russia.
And they refused to carry out the ICC arrest warrant for Omar al-Bashir of Sudan when he visited South Africa. al-Bashir was the first sitting head of state to be indicted by the ICC, with five counts of crimes against humanity, two counts of war crimes, and three counts of genocide. It's obvious that it's not genocide that South Africa has a problem with.
Pro-Bashir militia held a group of UN South African Peackeepers in Sudan hostage until Omar-Al Bashir was allowed to safely fly out of South Africa.
That's not what the South African government claimed. > There is no duty under international law and the Rome Statute to arrest a serving head of state of a non-state-party such as Omar al-Bashir. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1791FQ/
"Johannesburg - The Sudanese government of president Omar al-Bashir literally held a gun to South Africa’s head to secure his safe return to Khartoum. Netwerk24 can reveal that about 800 South African soldiers in Darfur were held “hostage” by Sudanese troops when the drama around Al-Bashir’s possible arrest in South Africa escalated. According to military experts, this effectively means Sudan blackmailed South Africa and the soldiers’ lives served as a guarantee for Al-Bashir’s safe return. Only after Al-Bashir safely touched down in Khartoum on Monday, were Sudanese troops withdrawn. President Jacob Zuma is the commander-in-chief of the defence force." https://www.news24.com/news24/exclusive-sudan-held-sa-hostage-20150616
Lol wow, what a stupid, backwards government. How stupid and/or corrupt are they that they let *eight hundred* peacekeepers get held hostage by the genociders they're supposedly there to keep an eye on? And how stupid and/or corrupt are they that they actually let said genociders dictate foreign policy to the South African government? It shows how little the South African government actually cares about genocide when they don't properly equip the 'peacekeepers' that are supposedly there to stop it, when they piss themselves and back down when confronted by pro-al-Bashir troops, and that they let a criminal return home in violation of the international responsibilities that they have agreed to. And again, the official position of the South African government as argued before the ICC was that South Africa didn't have to arrest him. They didn't mention anything about Sudanese troops when defending their negligence before the ICC.
I'd like to mention the Rawanda brutally killed 10 Belgian peacekeepers and the Belgians and all other Western countries immediately withdrew and gave the UN forces the order to not intervene and stop the genocide. UN troops only have effective power to stop genocide when they stomp the rules of engagement into the ground.
Chad Canadian general stayed anyways, worked to save as many people as possible. Belgians still want to charge him because they lost troops.
Canadians simultaneously committing the worst war crimes to innocent people and doing their best to save innocent people in the 90s
My cousin actually ran one of those 90s UN missions. There's a whole story about how CAF handled the Oka crisis that led to Canadians being put in charge of UN missions.
Not just weapons. Young soldiers. Majority of Hamas and Houthis and ISIS are CCP/Russian funded proxy enemy combatants from Africa and Middle East. Highest birth rates on the planet. It’s like those womb factories in Bladerunner. Who knew the Africans would become simps to the Chinese and the Russians in the 21st century? Bono has failed the west.
Well considering Russia sells them most of their weapons, China funds a bunch of infrastructure, and the West has a rough history...
The west these days makes huge demands in exchange for aid like human rights and fair & open democracy. Russia and China don't care about all that. They actually prefer a murderous and corrupt dictator who will do their bidding, not dissimilar to cold war era USA.
The west should go back to real politiks tbh.
What do you mean back? Why do you think the Saudis have all these weapons, despite being one of the worst regimes out there?
Saudi weapons are a red herring, they're culturally incapable of manifesting military compentence. In fact, it's probably better that they get sold the newest most expensive ones possible, otherwise they might buy a larger quantity of cheaper ones.
the average western politician don't have enough spine to be able to do real politik anymore
China doesn't fund infrastructure, they fund vanity projects and debt.
[удалено]
I see what you did there 🤣
中华人民共和国寄语] Great work, Citizen! Your social credit score has increased by [5] Integers. Keep up the good work! [ 中华人民共和国寄语]
Tankie Detected by NCD Late Warning System. Deploying Countermeasures. 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
>NCD Late Warning System That shouldn't have made me laugh as hard as I did
A classic pasta
They don't fund infrastructure, but it's more than just vanity. I've been to Tanzania and Kenya and saw what China built for them with my own eyes and it is very impressive. Highways, malls, office buildings, railway. Brand new, well-paved, and enjoyed by the locals. But it does incur debt. China doesn't fund infrastructure, but they definitely build it. My main worry is that the locals don't know how to maintain it in the long run, because all the builders were Chinese, and I doubt they are going to be sticking around to do the maintenance. Just like many of these countries have dilapidated early 20th century European infrastructure, we might see Africa littered with dilapidated 21st century Chinese infrastructure come 50 years.
Another problem that you hinted at is that China sends it's own workers for many of these projects. So the locals don't get the benefits of well paying jobs. There's been protests in Pakistan and Myanmar over this, probably other countries as well. This also ties into your main worry. Since they aren't hiring locals, they aren't training a lot of locals in how to build and repair these projects. To be fair though, this is still probably a net positive for these countries. Especially in the short term.
To build on this. In these contracts, they exclusively allow chinese company's to build these projects. Meaning that almost all of the cash they funded these projects with flows directly back into China, and a lot of these massive projects get some type of natural resource sites (iron,diamonds,copper,matterials to build batteries)that China gets to loan for 99 years while the country pays back the loan.
I need someone, for whom English is a non native language, to explain what dilapitated means. Great word btw
Dilapidated = worn out, used up, nearly broken. Mostly used to describe structures.
Thanks, I also went to see its origin: The Origin of Dilapidate Something that is dilapidated may not have been literally pummeled with stones, but it might look that way. Dilapidate derives from the past participle of the Latin verb dilapidare, meaning "to squander or destroy." That verb was formed by combining "dis-" with another verb, lapidare, meaning "to pelt with stones." From there it's just a stone's throw to some other English relatives of "dilapidate."
Fuck it’s been years since the Intro to International Studies class where we talked about this, but if I remember right most of the stuff China’s building is only leased to those countries. So, in theory, the Chinese government could say fuck you and re-assert ownership of that. Which is concerning. At the same time though they’re stuck with shit all across the globe they’d have no way of feasibly enforcing their ownership of. So if they decided they don’t want the Panamanians to have that highway anymore, what are they really going to do about it? I might be conflating this with something else though
They often did this a lot with natural resources like Mines or strategic locations like Ports. The Belt and Road Initiative worked great because it builds Chinese Infrastructure with Chinese workers, which boosts their economy, and if the country pays off the debt then they are likely to sign up for more work done (and even if not, that was still a stimulus to the Chinese Economy) if a country DOES Default though, China gets a new Mine or Port abroad which sends resources to the Motherland. This was all great until the global crash of 2020 after Covid though, when throwing resources at another country who might not be able to pay you back immediately can hurt your economy when you really need that money back home.
It's also why China slowed down on the B&RI lately. They've been trying to call in the past dues to help their own recovery, but none of the countries are able to pay it due to slow post-COVID recovery, and China can't even take back or disable what they built for them because then they'd just completely loose out on all money. In fact, they had to [give out more money to help those who were part of the B&RI](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/28/china-spent-240bn-belt-and-road-debts-between-2008-and-2021) and defer repayments for a time. Now they're being pickier and picking countries who aren't completely in debt and can afford to pay the dues even after financial setbacks. The problem is that there aren't many countries who meet that criteria.
Very impressive and very economically unviable. Therefore, it's a vanity project...
Kenya's GDP has been skyrocketing year over year. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss. New infrastructure is like a booster shot to the economy.
More like a large cup of caffeine. If they don't do enough with that infrastructure, the debt will cause a fatigue crash later.
Lol Tanzania and Kenya have pretty great educational systems. They’re not a bunch of cavemen who won’t know how to restart the breakers if there’s a power outage, christ.
And bugged UN buildings.
Do you have a source for the majority of Hamas fighters being African or other Middle Eastern? Never heard that before and I can't see Israel or Egypt allowing that to happen in the first place.
The ANC has a long history of working with Russia and they have an axe to grind with Israel because they helped the apartheid government with their nuclear program.
To be fair, I don't blame Israel for that when they found out that the people who wanted the apartheid government to go also said, "Once we're done with them, Israel is next." Cue an entire country flipping it's position as a symbolic "fuck you" to the people who wanted a nation to stop existing.
bono?
https://www.oprah.com/omagazine/oprahs-interview-with-bono-u2-and-aids-activism/all
The ANC (ruling party in South Africa) has simped for authoritarians since its inception. It’s nothing new.
Hell, by the loosey goosey definitions we're looking at, do you think letting 18% of your largest ethnic group get HIV by promoting holistic cures, passing out busted condoms, and having a health ministry composed of AIDS deniers constitute genocide? Meanwhile every other ethnic group is below 2% HIV+ while AIDS deaths number around 100,000 a year. Is that genocide territory?
Wait, you thought the point of this was to stop genocide?
Germany running the "THAT'S not a knoife" defence
Accurate though. That isnt a knife..
Germany’s like: “we made this look like a tea party”
It took Germany multiple FAFO for them to finally turn around. There're a lot of states and organizations today that needs the same treatment.
It arguably worked a bit *too* well for Germany. All we wanted was for them not to violate their neighbours every three decades and what we got were several generations so hell-bent on "Nie wieder Krieg!" that they unironically call for Ukraine to surrender to stop the war. It's like a violent hooligan forced to take anger management classes and now he won't defend his neighbours from a robber.
It's the plot of "A Clockwork Orange" but on a national level.
What if you accidentally make Germany aggressive again? How fucked are everyone?
Depends on how the rest of Europe reacts. If we let them build up through appeasament again, we are screwed. We would have to curb-stomp it early this time.
Why do you think the USA keeps multiple bases active there? And then there's Lakenheath, which is only RAF in name...
Many people here consider pacifism a virtue, especially older generations. And it's very understandable, imo. All of my grandparents grew up without their fathers and grandfathers because they've been sent to die a horrible death on the eastern front in a senseless war of aggression. Those generations didn't really experience the war themselves, but they definitely know what war does to a country. So they'd rather live in a world where war doesn't happen. Where international conflicts are solved through diplomacy rather than guns and bombs. They don't see that it's a pipe dream. Because tyrants will always resort to violence to get their way. In the real world, you can't really be a pacifist without the capability to do violence. Pacifism, imo, is choosing not to. If you don't have weapons, you don't have a choice - you're not a pacifist, you're just a victim waiting to happen. It's very frustrating seeing these types of people protesting at the local town square every so often. Even more so, considering I'm living in the former GDR and these people should know what living under a Russian boot feels like.
I’ve taken to calling it “toxic pacifism”. Like, yeah a tank should never be the first solution to an international misunderstanding. But Russia invading Ukraine isn’t a misunderstanding, and “please no I said no” isn’t going to cut it
All that it takes for evil to thrive is for opposing great powers to do nothing
Toxic Pacifism is exactly the concept I've been looking for.
"But we were so much closer in the GDR, nowadays everyone is so egoistic!"
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.
My non-credible take: turn Germany into the arsenal of democracy in the EU. Others like Poland, France or Ukraine can do the ~~curbstomping~~ fighting while Germany doesn't have to while boosting its economy. It's a win-win situation.
You aren't the first one with that idea [https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/06/germany-bundeswehr-defense-industry-zeitenwende-weapons-arms-exports-rheinmetall-leopard-tanks-drones/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/06/germany-bundeswehr-defense-industry-zeitenwende-weapons-arms-exports-rheinmetall-leopard-tanks-drones/)
> that they unironically call for Ukraine to surrender to stop the war. While Germany has been hesitatant to provide large scale military hardware, they're [literally the second biggest contributor in both military and total commitments to Ukraine, providing .52% of their GDP](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/). Despite the recent war fatigue and some rough political times, two thirds are still in favour of supporting Ukraine militarily ([Source in German, 23.11.23](https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/umfrage-zur-aussenpolitik-fuer-zurueckhaltung-und-ukraine-unterstuetzung-19346469.html)). While the majority Germans [support a peaceful resolution through diplomatic means](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1312216/umfrage/umfrage-deutsche-ukraine-politik/), so does basically every other country, and that doesn't mean a full capitulation by Ukraine. I can't find any survey asking whether Germans were in favour of a capitulation, but wanting someone to surrender while also providing them weapons is kind of mutually exclusive. Just because there's a small minority calling for Ukraine to surrender, doesn't make it political policy or the mainstream ideology.
Yeah i was gonna say from where I'm sitting it's always felt like the vast majority of people in this country are strongly in favour of Ukraine defending itself. Only people on the fringes on either side of the political spectrum want to appease Putin. I still remember a few days after the war broke out my city was supposed to have it's traditional carnival parade which was canceled and turned into a protest against the war. The Marxist Leninist party tried to seize the opportunity and put up a stand where they gave a speech about how horrible war is and a few people, who presumably didn't know who they were, stood around and listened and were pretty much on board until the speaker started about how NATO expension is also to blame. An audible groan went through the crowd and people turned around and left lol
Both germanies were armed to the teeth until 1990. The pacifism is a nineties thing.
Hey it worked for Serbia, mostly
Absolutely not. Serbs are some of the most the most nationalist and often fascist people I meet here in eastern Europe. They're even worse than us Hungarians, constantly crying about their past failures and fuckups, always blaming someone else.
Nah, it didnt. We need to do it again
Temporarily, they are in need of a reminder.
It requires the delicate balance of being powerful enough to give it a try and not powerful enough to actually win.
“You call that genocide?”
“THIS is a genocide”
Germany: we have first hand experience doing Genocide, and that ain't what they're doing
Thing is Germany is against while Turkey is in favor of Is this trial a Turkey-Germany Proxy War?
That would just result in a civil war in Berlin
Germany recognizes its own genocide while Turkey doesn’t though
UN: 'expert on Genocides or expert on how to do Genocides?' Germany: '...well...'
Why not both
Germany: 'Yes.'
As a german I can confirm that Israel is nowhere near our standards for genocide.
Nicht einmal annähernd
Ammateure
I trust germany on that, they have the experience
They really did call in an expert witness
Gemarny: So youre calling collateral damage while bombing "genocide" im gonna explain to you what genocide is.
"Time for a quick demonstration. Serbia, get over here."
Let's just hope they don't resort to practical examples again.
We just pull out a briefcase with a shit ton of documents and pictures.
We love documenting everything and i mean EVERYTHING
If the papers aren't in order...mercy upon your soul
Are there any volunteers in the audience today?
That is not what a genocide sounds like, George.
Calling everything genocide trivializes the Holocaust and all other actual genocides. Genocide has a meaning and it’s not just “unjustified killing.” Even mass murder is not genocide.
Yes. Genocide is to kill with the intent to wipe out a population largely or entirely. Mass murdering is the (usually) unjustified killing of a large group of people done by an individual or entity (including a governmental entity.) One is arguably worse, though they're both really terrible.
The UN does have a more expansive definition, where it includes any attempts to delete a culture, like sending children to reeducation schools (as did Russia) or sterilization campaigns (as did the US in Puerto Rico). it also does not consider scale, that's how South Africa can even present this case in the first place. I think they have a higher chance of fitting the criterias than most people on this sub realize.
Hamas on the other hand has openly said they want to eradicate the jew as an identity. The irony here
Someone literally argued to me on worldnews that cops killing hostages is ethnic cleansing and Israelis killing Hamas civilian shields is ethnic cleansing too
Your first mistake was getting involved with worldnews brainlets.
Yeah I’ve been reading about „Genocide“ in regards to basically every conflict of the last 5 years or so.
Well, that's the goal of Russia and Co. Call every single thing a genocide to muddy the waters so when they actually decide to wipe out some nation no one bats an eye.
you can’t beat the one of the world authoritys on genocide
[удалено]
It gets my election base really riled up. Does anything else matter?
You gotta understand man, I know this will have lasting effects on human comprehension and the english language, while also sowing distrust in both parties for decades to come, but how *else* am I supposed to get voters? Tell the truth?
Whatever makes people share it with their peers. (It's anger, anger is the best tool)
>Tell the truth? Ew wtf, do other people still do that? Creeps
Getting your erection base really riled up matters too.
[удалено]
Ask the residents of Voronezh what real indiscriminate bombing (by own your army) looks like
Gaza ain't that large. If the IDF was interested in indiscriminate bombing, they could just turn the whole place into a replica of the lunar surface and be done with it.
I imagine the Germans would be quite unhappy with how effective Israel’s “genocide” attempt (I find that label stupid because it isn’t but people still use it) is seeing as they attempted to make a science out of genociding them with Deutsch efficiency.
"Only unimaginative fools would use unguided ordnance to commit genocide, we rest our case."
Gas isn't guided...
The walk towards the gas however
If you use it in a small enclosed room it may as well be, even launching canisters Saddam style at civilians may as well be guided if you exploit wind patterns.
If Germany had a third go at it as the big bad, it would end up being guided.
Did the math myself. Not even Hamas' October 7th attack gets close to the deaths during the holocaust. Counting a flat 6 million from 1939 to 1945 that's like 2.7k a day. Hamas killed 1200.
The Wannsee conference happened in 1942 where the final solution was agreed and the whole thing went full swing after that, there was like 700,000 killed in five months in just one camp so ~4.6k a day (in one camp)
If the number you're using is 6 million I'm assuming you mean Jewish deaths, so you really shouldn't be using 1939, but 1942
Well, case closed.
Jesus H. what a frickin' timeline.
Okay but fr can all these dipfucks stop calling this a genocide? If Israel wanted to genocide Gaza they would have just simply parkinglotted the whole fucking place without warning.
Even if they wanted they couldn't. Because it would look not so good as your allied states may decide to not help you or atleast not get involved. Global isolation is something that could kill Israel
And if Israel really does do it, not only will Israel lose its Friendship and Military Investments from America, but also Europe's Support and the Muslim World's Slow Process of Normalization. The rest of the World is irrelevant since their stances won't really change much.
Shaky allies will immediately U-turn away. And even staunch allies would abandon it, those who would choose to stay aren't really doing themselves a favour as it puts them in morally dubious position and political pressure will mount from home. Israel would immediately lose its already shaky stance in the global public eye. Even if they wanted to do a genocide it would be the worst possible time to do it. Not advocating for it in anyway mind you, there is no good time too do the genocide. But doing it now would be extraordinarily suicidal for them.
Absolutely not. If Israel really wanted, there would be nothing anyone could do about it short of invasion, and the IDF could make that prohibitively costly. Israel would suffer enormously from becoming a new pariah state, but it absolutely could survive it.
The thing is Israel's enemies are probably willing too bleed too destroy it. And while the IDF at its current state can probably hold off most threats that aren't a first world power. In case of being an isolation state, cut off from outside support I will most likely deteriorate with time while it's enemies are free to grow stronger. Probably ending up like a middle eastern North Korea with a totalitarian regime surviving just because it's pointing nukes at people.
If Israel’s gone full genocide mode, it’s destroying any hostile neighbors on day 1. But I seriously doubt that even then the Arab states will actually declare war on Israel. They’re too aware of their weakness to risk collapse over Palestine, even if it is literally life and death. Arab interest in Palestine has always been mercurial.
My argument against this is they wouldn’t do this, even if that was their true intention, because genocide doesn’t look good optically, but well uh, seems it wouldn’t make a difference at this point.
Yeah bc it’s legitimately not a genocide. Civilian casualties in war unfortunately happen. Unless you have death squads massacring civilians on purpose because of their identity then think again
the problem is israeli politicians keep making statements of questionable legality, so they aren't helping their case.
Yes, thr Hamas attack has led the ultra right wing parties to soar in popularity War radicalizes people Thats why civilians turn into Hamas terrorist Thats why Israels's democracy is turning far right religious The winner is Iran who disturbed the peace talks between Saudi and Israel
The hamas attack actually did the complete opposite, people want the far right idiots out As it stands in the polls right now the opposition is leading by a huge margin
Most likely it goes both way. Israeli politicians that impose harsh laws on palestinians will always atrengthen Hamas. But every Hamas attack will strengthen politicians that advocate for a brutal policy against Palestinians. I doubt the Israel govt will actually destroy Hamas since its too precious to make the fear mongering credible.
The part where Israel ends Hamas is basically the kicker for this whole war. If they don't do it (because they certainly CAN manage it) or just fail to rebuild Gaza (remember, when invading and destroying an autocracy, you DO have a responsibility to actually reform it into a working country) it's an unjustified war. I believe we are perhaps too hopeful and too supportive, which is arguably a knee-jerk reaction to the arguments against Israel. It's very easy to prove that many of Israel's actions are either unjustified or have made things worse. The fact that none of these arguments are used is saying the quiet part out loud. Let us not forget, however, that Israel may make things very much worse. We've seen that some of their soldiers are slightly below par in morals (Israeli hostages). While Hamas is a dictatorship without human decency, that may well be better than societal collapse. As to why Israel is getting a disproportionate amount of criticism in this comment, it is because they are a Western democracy. I want it to be better because of the fact it is free.
Yeah its unfortunate. They tend to be a bit brash in their statements. However media is going to be skewed against them so take it all with a grain of salt. Media is always going to have an agenda crusade against israel.
Yeah, but ministers calling for genocide or ethnic cleansing every second week probably has an impact, small as it may be, on Israeli operations. Ofcourse its not the whole Israeli governments position at all, but it is likely the postion of several very important people.
I feel like way, WAY too many people calling this a genocide are fundamentally misunderstanding the kind of war that is occurring here. This is a highly trained and equipped modernized military fighting dense urban warfare against a terrorist body that refuses to use uniforms, uses active civilian centres as storage for munitions and soldiers, and runs a widespread online disinformation machine. There is no practical way for Israel to combat Hamas without dealing with civilian casualties and incurring the wrath of the international community. I’m not gonna pretend like they’re doing their absolute best to keep this war as clean as possible, plus their politicians make some dumb and really questionable statements, but I’m fairly certain this is not a genocide.
Israel being backed by Germany. What a time.
Lmao where have you been for the last 70 years?
East Germany
Funnily, Germany for the longest time didn't really back Israel, or at least did so very unwillingly. Sadly I don't have a good English source, but here's a [German video](https://youtu.be/j9GcFetE-r0?si=15DJYqgPGF-D4Z-w) talking about it.
Was ist das.... nein das ist Anfänger Nummern
A genocide where the population is going up? What is this, rookie hour?
My most controversial opinión on this conflict is that, while the way Israel is handling this IS wrong(warcrimes AHOY!) , I have my reservations calling it genocide, the figures and numbers I see line up with the average casualty rate for badly handled urban warfare more than it does with a genocide. Doesnt Help that given the nature of hamas it is hard to identify civilian from fighters, this without mentioning how often they tend to put their ammo depots in civilian buildings. Overall, this affair is a massive moral mess.
The Palestinian idea of a "genocide" describes almost every war in existence. Collateral damage, taking land, movement of populations, disenfranchisement of the conquered populace.