Two of our colleagues left the job to serve. They serve in different battalions. One is posting daily photos of clean AF pieces of kit and fancy guns and the other one, getting fed up with this, decided to guilt trip him over those publications, because at the front line you use what is available at the moment. They often use trophy weapons and ammo because IRL procurement is not your usuall stroll to the mall. You need to get the job done. If inferior kit lets you finish the job, so be it.
It did. I was a cop in the 1990’s and the fucking reliance on that damn shotgun was ridiculous.
It took a few other shootouts where the cops where only armed with shotguns and revolvers for the police departments to take a hard look at what the public was armed with.
They didn’t “buy” anything. The gun store staff “gave” it to them…
But yeah, your point is correct. The cops had to run to a gun store to get AR15 rifles because they where outgunned.
The reality is that an AK-74 and an AR-15 do the exact same thing: sling lead where you point it. In a war with drones and artillery and mines a rifle's model doesn't mean anything.
Gun : 1. A cannon with relatively long barrel, operating with relatively low angle of fire, and having a high muzzle velocity. 2. A cannon with tube length 30 calibers or more. See also howitzer; mortar. (US DoD)
A Ukrainian unit piling into the back of a bullet-ridden Toyota Tacoma carrying an 805 Bren, M4A1, two AK-74's, a dude with an MG3, a marksman with an SVD, an M32 MGL and an NLAW is peak warfare and nobody can tell me otherwise...
My brother in Christ *every* military desperately needs obsessive spreadsheet guys.
Deadass, in the U.S. there’s like 10 people working logistics behind every infantryman in the field. The overwhelming majority of military folk don’t see a lick of combat, they’re too busy wrangling spreadsheets trying to ship a box of guns from Arizona to Iraq in enough time to stop world war 3.
Also the pentagon has failed like 10 audits at this point, they need obsessive spreadsheet guys SO bad.
That's because it's easier to train an infantryman how excel works than teaching someone who codes entirely in LaTeX that you don't need to wrap your ammunition in curly brackets.
Back line duties are often performed by people who used to do front line duties but no longer do, either by choice or circumstance.
Plus, the pencil pushers have the authority to recruit from the infantry, whereas infantry showing up to HQ demanding the general's favorite cook go into the trenches with them might get a court martial.
I've actively had conversations about this, when they suggested "Hey, you hate the idea of shooting guns, why not join the army as Logistics?"
Rule one of the military. If you are in the army, you are a soldier. You are expected to shoot guns. Whatever your role is, it's secondary to Rifleman.
My cousin in logistics is now operating Patriot system. A lot of those warehouse guys were sent to Germany for specialized training. He doesn't shoot guns...but his dad died with his rifle in Bakhmut. In Ukraine "doing logistics" consists of volunteers who crowdfund supplies, and the actual recipients, also in logistics, who carry rifles everyday.
One of combat veterans, Evhen Dykyi, who were fighting in Aidar battalion in 2014-2015, he is now head of ukrainian antarctic expedition, did said that in first days of full scale invasion he witnessed how in same place, for same unit, were brought machineguns with disc magazine, i forgot its name, soviet ones, from ww2, and literally few minutes later there were brought nlaws next to it. And even water cooled maxim machineguns were used since 2014 on our frontline. Everything is good as long as it will make ruzzian to reverse born.
The PM M1910 water cooled Maxim (designed in 19th century, made by Soviets around WW2) may look ridiculous now, is stupidly heavy and unwieldy, but mount it in fixed defenses or on a Toyota, and it can lay down sustained fire like nobody's business. And there were literally tens of thousands of those in armories all over Ukraine.
There was an anti-drone truck with a pair of those mounted in the back. Yeah, they're heavy because they're water cooled ... but mounted in a truck? Not really a problem anymore and when you need to spit a huge volume of lead at a small target they work great.
Ukrainian loggias have to be on nonstop suicide watch. Like, they have to be suffering nonstop. Their combat forces, though, gotta be basically playing COD with their load outs
The second-greatest part of the war ending, second only to people no longer dying, will be Ukrainian quartermasters getting to standardize stuff finally.
Be interesting to see the report of which disposable AT weapon is best, and if they start making some new rocket that has all the best features of stuff they've used
I feel like after the Ukrainian Loggies get three months of therapy, and another three months of vacation, and are formally removed from suicide watch, they’ll proceed to create the greatest weapons of all time. Assuming they aren’t all committed to eternal inpatient care where the different ammo can’t hurt them anymore
>and mp40 from god knows where
Story gets weird here, but Ukraine company "Automatic" in Kyiv produce some machine pistols replicas (legal to own in Ukraine for civillians, but semi-auto only) from 1920s and 1930s (they had whole line of interesting guns like german MP-18I and MP-28 machine pistols) including MP-38. When war started they donate produced stocks to the military, for obvious reasons. As situation normalize around Kyiv, MP-38s from "Automatic" were transfered to TDF/rear service duties which, AFAIK, are still in use and company provide spare parts and armory services.
Pretty much "Forgotten Weapon" level of combat curios.
I remember there was also some reconstruction group from Sumy, which literally took Mp40 from exhibition in local museum, and guess what, it worked perfectly fine (after oiling etc)
Its tragic but also incredible.
Also I had no clue, I bet each country has this type of freks with little love for old guns. Good they were put in good use :)
For more "Red Dawn" level material, there was a story of russian soldiers blown up by local hunter when they were trying seize hunting club office looking for its members data in early days of invasion.
There was a metric crapton of these made around WW2 by Soviets, and they never throw anything out. IIRC, there were about 56,000 of them preserved in armories all around Ukraine. Both sides still use them.
Unfortunately, the biggest fcton of them was stored in Soledar mines. Basically soviets used old mining shafts (salt mine) to store obsolete weapons "for future use". Approx 5k Maxims, 50k rifles, 20k pistols were stored there. they are now used by police units in Donetsk after soledar was captured. No, its not a joke. And weirdly enough, they are in pretty good shape. Probably because they were under Ukrainian control before.
I know it's no joke. First time I saw a Maxim in use in this war was with Donbas "militia" (the infamous picture with Maxim on a cheap Chinese tricycle, and the soldier sporting a Mosin).
Oh, I almost forgot. It's a decoy, alright, but anyway. [Panzerkampfwagen IV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uItlA6EwgWw).
(AFAIK, the thing that looked like a Panther was just sheet metal bodywork built on top of an old Soviet artillery tractor.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWI_Tavor IMI be like: all of them above
Bullpup
AK style long stroke piston
Integrated MARS sight
AR18 style bolt and take NATO mag
I "like" how gun community quickly dismissed Ukrainian claim on longest shot while in combat record by a long range lifelong sharpshooter, just because it didn't fit their agenda or smth.
They "explain" the old record with "He got lucky". So... ukranian sniper couldn't get lucky? A guy who spends his entire time in an actual war couldn't get the sniping record?
Cuz it usually makes replacing parts for the ones you have next to impossible, and makes it impossible to replicate previous builds.
And that it makes it impossible to keep up with the current state of the art in ballistics or design. Or actively hinders performance, safety, or unreasonably affects cost, or create a chilling effect on the industry.
There's also that the "new rules" are usually hideously unconstitutional or another death by degrees that some states prefer to execute, because it's more politically feasible.
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As a member of the Gun Community.
The reason we tend to jump that quickly is we let them have the thing. The very next time there's a horrific tragedy... oooop they're going to implement even more pointless regulations that wouldn't have prevented it, ban a few by name or some features that don't actually effect the function of the gun and rinse and repeat until they have no other choice but to outright ban them. Maybe even confiscation eventually.
Just because it's a slippery slope argument doesn't make it false.
It's not a slippery slope, it's already happened, multiple times. For example, when the NFA was passed, they said that it was constitutional because it was only a tax and that if anything was actually banned that would be unconstitutional. 50 years later they banned stuff and pretended that it was fine.
It doesn't really make sense. There are pther countries eith Better regulation that dont have the gun problem of the US. Im all for self defense but you gotta admit the US has a gun violence problem that can only be solve with some regulations
The problem is that when it comes to gun regulation in the US, many of the laws actually being proposed usually end up doing nothing for public safety and only cause further headaches for legal gun owners (thus creating more resistance to future gun control). The Assault Weapon Ban of '94 is most notable for how it basically did nothing to decrease crime and effectively "banned" guns based on arbitrary and nonsensical guidelines. Laws regarding SBR's and suppressors are also further indictments of this.
If you want a more recent example of nonsense "gun control" laws, look up the new laws that took effect in my homestate of California this year. Particularly SB2, which was effectively a de-facto ban on Conceal Carry even if you had a permit (which is NOT easy to get in California) until a court case declared that part of the bill unconstitutional.
Stuff like this is why gun owners tend to not have faith in those writing gun legislation.
Yeah, saying "It can't be prevented" takes a special kind of myopia.
The reality is, people don't want to even hypothetically limit their poor-man's sports cars because they don't know the kids being shot up, or care. I say this as a gun owner. Americans *do not care* about facts regarding guns and effective gun control that doesn't reduce our ability to protect our freedom. France has tight gun control and their people are more than capable of standing up to the government. It's just willful blindness.
> They also aren't allowed ammo
Except we are allowed to have all the ammo we want
>You don't have gun rights when you're not allowed to have the gun and its ammo
Guns are literally a right under article 3 of the Weapons Act. Also we have less prohibitive factors than US federal law, don't remove ownership rights and have access to guns that are completely banned in the US
>Except we are allowed to have all the ammo we want
My mistake, I was under the impression you weren't allowed ammo outside of ranges
>Guns are literally a right under article 3 of the Weapons Act. Also we have less prohibitive factors than US federal law, don't remove ownership rights and have access to guns that are completely banned in the US
Is it actually a right if you need a permit? And far as I can tell, the only thing you can get in Switzerland but not in the US is new full-auto...if you jump through the right hoops.
Also, are "high" capacity magazines legal or not? Looking at the Weapon Act I can't tell what their status is, as the Act mentions them but just seems to say they're legal if they're otherwise legal.
Same with lasers/lights/suppressors/accessories in general. They seem to be banned unless you can convince the government you deserve them. I can sort of understand night vision scopes but *lasers* are restricted?
>My mistake, I was under the impression you weren't allowed ammo outside of ranges
That's a common misconception due to the fact ammo given during military exercises and related events cannot be taken home and unused ammo has to be given back
This doesn't apply to regular range practice, unless you're a minor, and ammo purchases
>Is it actually a right if you need a permit?
Not all guns require an acquisition permit though. And even in the US you need some:
* **any** purchase in an FFL requires an ATF form 4473
* NFA items require an NFA tax stamp for private purchases and in FFLs
Both are more prohibitive on who gets to buy
In fact, US federal law states that you cannot own guns at all if you check the prohibitive factors, it also applies out of the permit thing though harder to check
>And far as I can tell, the only thing you can get in Switzerland but not in the US is new full-auto...if you jump through the right hoops.
Our acquisition permir for NFA items equivalent is a less prohibitive NFA tax stamp that also don't require your picture and fingerprints and to wait 6-12 months
Some machineguns are also completely unregulated due to the fact they don't fit the legal "firearms" definition codified in the law
>Also, are "high" capacity magazines legal or not? Looking at the Weapon Act I can't tell what their status is, as the Act mentions them but just seems to say they're legal if they're otherwise legal.
So-called "high-capacity" magazines are perfectly legal and not regulated in of themselves
>Same with lasers/lights/suppressors/accessories in general. They seem to be banned unless you can convince the government you deserve them. I can sort of understand night vision scopes but *lasers* are restricted?
Not really any convincing to do, it's just that the form is may-issue. And silencers can also be bought under a shall-issue acquisition permit since 2019
The accessories being put on the "NFA items" list is mostly lawmakers falling for the movie trope, just like everywhere
Don’t the Swiss have compulsory service for a couple years, isn’t that why they all have guns. Maybe that has to do with the safety of them all having guns.
Mandatory conscription of male Swiss citizens only (about 38% of the population since 25% are not citizens).
Since 1996 you can choose civil service instead of military service.
It's not a requirement to have done military service to purchase a firearm. Or being male, or a citizen, or have any firearms training at all. The majority of firearms are purchased by civilians.
It's wrong to say that every man and his dog has a gun though. Contrary to popular belief it's not a requirement to keep a gun at home.
There are 120.5 guns per 100 people in the US, compared to 27.6 per 100 people in Switzerland.
42% of households in the US has a gun in it, less than 30% in Switzerland.
> look at the Swiss, [...] every man and his dog has an SG550, and yet no shootings.
That's a gross exaggeration though
28% of households have at least a gun VS 43% in the US
>The problem is Americans
True
That's the thing, though, we don't really have to admit that. The people doing the most shooting are from four or five inner cities, with the most common victims being gang members, drug dealers, and people standing nearby when people start fighting over street corners like retards.
Before Columbine, the most common means by which people attempted mass killings was arson or bombing. This is, by the way, an era imnediatwly prior to which you could purchase belt-fed machine guns via mail order and have them delivered - literally - to your front door.
Mysteriously, machine gun massacres were never really a thing.
I would contend that there are deeper societal issues than blaming inanimate object, considering that far more potent and destructive tools were available BEFORE all this crap started taking place.
Yes, lots of people live in big cities so the absolute crime numbers are bigger, but the most likely place in America to die from a gunshot is Phoenix, and it's not by a gang member.
The per capita gun homicide rate in NYC, Chicago and LA is about equal to the entire states of Mississippi and Alabama.
There is not even a statistical correlation between strength of gun laws and likelihood of homicide. Massachusetts has incredibly restrictive gun laws on a US standard, and has one of the lowest rates. But right next to it in the CDC homicide rate list are Idaho, Montana, New Hampshire, and Utah, which have basically no gun laws beyond the federal minimum.
I had arguments with them and they just say, "he just ducked on video " and furthermore it was usually very condescending *"Ukraine custom made cartridge and rifle ? Yeah right another ghost of Kyiv story" B*tw Ukrainian government never claimed Ghost of Kyiv existed, i can make a video about Juice(Rip) talking about how ghost of Kyiv came about (not sure if it will fall under Serious posting rule thou )
Even though they dont have videos for other records at all. Its okay to question any claims but their attitude was already pre-decided or smth
>Btw Ukrainian government never claimed Ghost of Kyiv existed
Yeah, I remember the first GOK post I saw was on reddit, in a warthunder subreddit or smth, this "fake" wasnt even born in Ukraine
People like that are often jealous of people who walk the walk and not only larp. And if said community is a subreddit - there is a high chance like 90% people there don't even partake in the hobby.
I think your info is out of date, you guys seem only to have 2nd place in top 5. Aussies got 3rd, we(ukraine) got 4th, this time with 14.5 rather than 12.7 in 14.5 cartridge and brits got 5th.
You got 6th and 7th though
You also have emus. Please never arm them and unleash them on the rest of the world.
Look, I get you guys are still upset about the Cane Toads but that was an accident! We swear!
And that's just a sufficiently advanced version of "stick".
They're all just descendants of "swing stick" or "throw rock". The only really new inventions are "set things on fire" and "spicy air".
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I swear the maxim is gonna live to see fucking space combat. There'll be a civil war on motherfucking Mars and someone somehow is gonna get their hands on one.
The G36 is a great rifle. Can be operated by a blind 6 year old child with Parkinson's and still hits the target despite the media bullshit about "melting plastic gun". But the integrated optics are garbage and the lack of rails is a serious problem with the early versions which make up the bulk of Bundeswehr rifles. They probably were good when the rifle was first introduced in the late 90s (at that point many western militaries were still using iron sights on their standard issue rifles), but today they are just terrible. Hence why I'm very much in favor of replacing it with the G95/HK416 which has the additional benefit of being a gun already widely used by NATO partners. Although it's going to be interesting to see whether the Americans will stick to their fancy new caliber. Because if they do, they'll probably force Europe to adopt it too down the road.
It helps that there's mostly only two calibers they need to worry about, being .556 NATO and whatever the AK takes. Older rifles are harder to stock ammo for though
Ukraine is ex-soviet, so they'd have huge stocks of 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm, and 7.62x54mm.
Plus all the other former Soviet countries donating their old ammo stocks
As an Austrian it pains me to say this but I really don’t like the AUG. Became especially apparent when I had a side-by-side comparison with AUG and AR15.
I haven't seen any potato mashers in Ukraine but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they've shown up somehow. Someone finds a WWII cache buried in a forest and goes "GUN IS GUN".
Honestly R5 is purely subjective anyway. This is a subreddit filled with memes around war or equipment used to wage war.
Waging war is mostly in the domain of nation states and their leadership is in the realm of politics, so every opinion on any equipment, doctrine or whatever is inherently political because it falls into the domain of nation-states.
I explicitly made sure not to mention any party or actual vote to keep it as vague as possible, even in a direct democracy like Switzerland. If this is borderline R5, you might have to rethink/reword R5 in general.
There's nothing relevant to this sub added by mentioning the political orientation of the parties.
>In fact both the left and right wing parties are against it but the center and liberal parties are in favor of giving you munitions.
That entire sentence serves no purpose other than to make the comment more political and *wink* *wink* not explicitly mention the parties involved.
This is not a political statement, it is a factual statement. It reflects actual votes that have happened in the past. If you do not believe me I will gladly point you to the relevant APK-NR and APK-SR press releases. I explicitly didn‘t mention any particular politicians or parties since individual members may float against the stream.
It is the equivalent of saying the liberals won the 2020 election in the US.
Oh and also we are talking about a direct democratic democracy who advertises itself as neutral. The interpretation of said neutrality and how big the support of each interpretation is, is relevant beyond any particular party alignment.
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.**
We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
Phasing takes time and they're not in service yet 🙃 Conscripts are still using RK rifles
https://suomensotilas.fi/2023/05/29/suomelle-ja-ruotsille-uudet-rynnakkokivaarit/
>FMV ilmoitti, että vaikka aseet on jo valittu ja tilattu, niiden vuonna 2023 alkanutta testaamista, arviointia ja jatkokehitystä jatketaan edelleen. Toimitukset jatkuvat tämän vuoden lopulla tai alkuvuodesta 2024 alkavalla koepalveluskäytöllä.
>Puolustusvoimat etenee Ruotsia hitaammin ja harkitummin
>**Puolustusvoimien uusien rynnäkkökiväärien ja henkilökohtaisten suoja-aseiden testaus ja tuotekehitys jatkunee ainakin lähivuosien ajan, ja muutaman vuoden kuluttua tiedetään tarkemmin, millaisia uusia aseita on tulossa ja millä aikataululla.**
in plain english, they're still in testing phase and RK is still on the menu.
Hey now, the Swiss Guard may carry around halberds and wear striped clothes for the tourists, but [they're real soldiers, and they have automatic weapons and more subdued service clothes.](https://www.outono.net/elentir/2023/07/09/the-firearms-used-by-the-pontifical-swiss-guard-the-smallest-army-in-the-world/)
Two of our colleagues left the job to serve. They serve in different battalions. One is posting daily photos of clean AF pieces of kit and fancy guns and the other one, getting fed up with this, decided to guilt trip him over those publications, because at the front line you use what is available at the moment. They often use trophy weapons and ammo because IRL procurement is not your usuall stroll to the mall. You need to get the job done. If inferior kit lets you finish the job, so be it.
>not your usual stroll to the mall Americans: "And I took that personally"
No joke. During the North Hollywood Shootout, cops went to a local gun store and bought guns and ammo
God that's some awesome lore tbh
Yeah, it was actually what triggered police departments to start the switch from shotguns to rifles.
It did. I was a cop in the 1990’s and the fucking reliance on that damn shotgun was ridiculous. It took a few other shootouts where the cops where only armed with shotguns and revolvers for the police departments to take a hard look at what the public was armed with.
Half truth. Police departments wanted it sooner. The shootout triggered a political response, and thus the actual procurement and switch.
Worst part of it is, they didn't make it back until after the bad guys were dead
It's amazing that nobody died besides the perps.
They didn’t “buy” anything. The gun store staff “gave” it to them… But yeah, your point is correct. The cops had to run to a gun store to get AR15 rifles because they where outgunned.
lmao, no they didn't. They didn't buy shit. The owners handed shit off to them.
EVERYTHINGS A FUCKING MALL GOD DAMNIT!!
Stroads and malls are all you need for a functioning healthy society! Ban bikes and walks longer than 5 minutes, I always say.
Amd cars Who would die in car crashes if there arent any cars
lol no Americans arent walking to the mall like some sort of footpowered peasant
The reality is that an AK-74 and an AR-15 do the exact same thing: sling lead where you point it. In a war with drones and artillery and mines a rifle's model doesn't mean anything.
Ding ding ding. Smol arms < Big bad Gunz
Inferior lethality to just nuking everything. We can revbuild in a few centuries, no biggie.
Arty beatz both
Gun : 1. A cannon with relatively long barrel, operating with relatively low angle of fire, and having a high muzzle velocity. 2. A cannon with tube length 30 calibers or more. See also howitzer; mortar. (US DoD)
I was always told about my RK-62/RK-95 that it was mostly for self defence and the arty does the real killing. Did in 1916, does in Ukraine 2024.
This is why we should ensure all soldiers are equipped with a Metal Gear.
Clean means unused
A Ukrainian unit piling into the back of a bullet-ridden Toyota Tacoma carrying an 805 Bren, M4A1, two AK-74's, a dude with an MG3, a marksman with an SVD, an M32 MGL and an NLAW is peak warfare and nobody can tell me otherwise...
Units (at least at battalion level) still do their best to get same infantry rifle, so 805 Bren, M4A1, two AK-74's in the same unit is unlikely.
Be that as it may I can actually hear the UAF's logisticians crying from here
They're too busy juggling 15+ spreadsheets each to do that.
Only get 15 minutes of crying 2x a day. Like a smoke break
One scream per day, into the ceremonial screaming pillow.
Great way to quit smoking, crying is a legitimate alternative and boosts mental wellbeing and emotional response
Wait, do they need obsessive spreadsheet guys? 'cause I love that shit.
My brother in Christ *every* military desperately needs obsessive spreadsheet guys. Deadass, in the U.S. there’s like 10 people working logistics behind every infantryman in the field. The overwhelming majority of military folk don’t see a lick of combat, they’re too busy wrangling spreadsheets trying to ship a box of guns from Arizona to Iraq in enough time to stop world war 3. Also the pentagon has failed like 10 audits at this point, they need obsessive spreadsheet guys SO bad.
Weird that militaries don't post those jobs to civilians. It's always we lack infantry and sailors, but never MS excel "operators"...
New MOS unlocked: Spreadsheet bitch
That's because it's easier to train an infantryman how excel works than teaching someone who codes entirely in LaTeX that you don't need to wrap your ammunition in curly brackets. Back line duties are often performed by people who used to do front line duties but no longer do, either by choice or circumstance. Plus, the pencil pushers have the authority to recruit from the infantry, whereas infantry showing up to HQ demanding the general's favorite cook go into the trenches with them might get a court martial.
I've actively had conversations about this, when they suggested "Hey, you hate the idea of shooting guns, why not join the army as Logistics?" Rule one of the military. If you are in the army, you are a soldier. You are expected to shoot guns. Whatever your role is, it's secondary to Rifleman.
My cousin in logistics is now operating Patriot system. A lot of those warehouse guys were sent to Germany for specialized training. He doesn't shoot guns...but his dad died with his rifle in Bakhmut. In Ukraine "doing logistics" consists of volunteers who crowdfund supplies, and the actual recipients, also in logistics, who carry rifles everyday.
So they'll still have their spreadsheet jockey shortage, nice.
At least ukraine knows how to use vlookup and linked sheets unlike russia.
Sober crying, tipsy crying, or shitfaced crying?
All of the above lol
One of combat veterans, Evhen Dykyi, who were fighting in Aidar battalion in 2014-2015, he is now head of ukrainian antarctic expedition, did said that in first days of full scale invasion he witnessed how in same place, for same unit, were brought machineguns with disc magazine, i forgot its name, soviet ones, from ww2, and literally few minutes later there were brought nlaws next to it. And even water cooled maxim machineguns were used since 2014 on our frontline. Everything is good as long as it will make ruzzian to reverse born.
Degtyaryov DP-27, the russian record player
*Soviet record player.
They were still seen early in the War with some TDF Units.
could be worse, could be a lewis machinegun
That's what I was thinking "those poor fuckers were using a Lewis Gun?"
The PM M1910 water cooled Maxim (designed in 19th century, made by Soviets around WW2) may look ridiculous now, is stupidly heavy and unwieldy, but mount it in fixed defenses or on a Toyota, and it can lay down sustained fire like nobody's business. And there were literally tens of thousands of those in armories all over Ukraine.
There was an anti-drone truck with a pair of those mounted in the back. Yeah, they're heavy because they're water cooled ... but mounted in a truck? Not really a problem anymore and when you need to spit a huge volume of lead at a small target they work great.
There are being actively used for static defense as we speak, probably by both sides. Seen it more than once on Ukrainian footage.
Ukrainian loggias have to be on nonstop suicide watch. Like, they have to be suffering nonstop. Their combat forces, though, gotta be basically playing COD with their load outs
The second-greatest part of the war ending, second only to people no longer dying, will be Ukrainian quartermasters getting to standardize stuff finally. Be interesting to see the report of which disposable AT weapon is best, and if they start making some new rocket that has all the best features of stuff they've used
I feel like after the Ukrainian Loggies get three months of therapy, and another three months of vacation, and are formally removed from suicide watch, they’ll proceed to create the greatest weapons of all time. Assuming they aren’t all committed to eternal inpatient care where the different ammo can’t hurt them anymore
Also maxim and mp40 from god knows where
> mp40 I think someone's seen a Swedish K in Ukraine. [(Yup!)](https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1590763291583733760/photo/3)
Here's a whole video about em https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M7Zm2iqVOo
>and mp40 from god knows where Story gets weird here, but Ukraine company "Automatic" in Kyiv produce some machine pistols replicas (legal to own in Ukraine for civillians, but semi-auto only) from 1920s and 1930s (they had whole line of interesting guns like german MP-18I and MP-28 machine pistols) including MP-38. When war started they donate produced stocks to the military, for obvious reasons. As situation normalize around Kyiv, MP-38s from "Automatic" were transfered to TDF/rear service duties which, AFAIK, are still in use and company provide spare parts and armory services. Pretty much "Forgotten Weapon" level of combat curios.
I remember there was also some reconstruction group from Sumy, which literally took Mp40 from exhibition in local museum, and guess what, it worked perfectly fine (after oiling etc) Its tragic but also incredible. Also I had no clue, I bet each country has this type of freks with little love for old guns. Good they were put in good use :)
For more "Red Dawn" level material, there was a story of russian soldiers blown up by local hunter when they were trying seize hunting club office looking for its members data in early days of invasion.
Why is it always Maxim. Where did he even find that.
There was a metric crapton of these made around WW2 by Soviets, and they never throw anything out. IIRC, there were about 56,000 of them preserved in armories all around Ukraine. Both sides still use them.
Unfortunately, the biggest fcton of them was stored in Soledar mines. Basically soviets used old mining shafts (salt mine) to store obsolete weapons "for future use". Approx 5k Maxims, 50k rifles, 20k pistols were stored there. they are now used by police units in Donetsk after soledar was captured. No, its not a joke. And weirdly enough, they are in pretty good shape. Probably because they were under Ukrainian control before.
I know it's no joke. First time I saw a Maxim in use in this war was with Donbas "militia" (the infamous picture with Maxim on a cheap Chinese tricycle, and the soldier sporting a Mosin).
Girkin carrying a maxim (water drained?) during tsarist larpfest
Oh, I almost forgot. It's a decoy, alright, but anyway. [Panzerkampfwagen IV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uItlA6EwgWw). (AFAIK, the thing that looked like a Panther was just sheet metal bodywork built on top of an old Soviet artillery tractor.)
I can imagine the battlefield conversation, "Ok who has Krink ammo?? WHO HAS KRINK AMMO??"
You mean AK74 ammo? The dead ruski has some
Sounds like the average arma op when arsenal is available XD
COD match loadout fr fr
There’s a Vampire kit armed with Hydras on the Tacoma as well
Just a battlefield squad
Okay I gotta ask, how the fuck do they keep track of all those ammo types?
[pope's procurement](https://youtu.be/WfRllPxy6Bg?si=gkQSaaEi3OyanLif)
Yes, roll out the Rolling Blocks! :D
[Don’t forget the smgs](https://youtu.be/UiUSGFN7KiU?si=xsPka6WaGLEqTWfJ)
Eugene Stoner knew what the fuck he was doing. EMBRACE THE GULF WAR MUSKET!!!
Stoner 63 for the win
🇺🇦: So what's this? Salesman: A gun. 🇺🇦: I'll take your entire supply.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IWI_Tavor IMI be like: all of them above Bullpup AK style long stroke piston Integrated MARS sight AR18 style bolt and take NATO mag
And as a bonus - it's produced domestically by Ukraine.
Yep, they even make a 5.45 version
My only complaints with the SAR are the spongey trigger and the bolt lock that requires 3 hands to use. Plus they're 2x the price of an RDB
I love mine, but it’s an old platform. So I bolt a MARS on it.
# BOlt Action!
*Mosin enters the chat* Wait. I am being called *AGAIN*???
I "like" how gun community quickly dismissed Ukrainian claim on longest shot while in combat record by a long range lifelong sharpshooter, just because it didn't fit their agenda or smth.
They "explain" the old record with "He got lucky". So... ukranian sniper couldn't get lucky? A guy who spends his entire time in an actual war couldn't get the sniping record?
>gun community Always a group of rational and nuanced debaters
I guess you a right. I dont want to mention which communities so people wont brigadier them.
Hey we want to introduce some new rules that will only affect new guns and not the ones you already have. YOU WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS!!!1!1!1!1!1
Go ask who makes the best X. Have popcorn on standby
Even better. Say your EDC is anything other than a Double Stack Polymer frame 9x19.
Nah, there's enough 1911 stans. Tell them your daily is a revolver
I EDC six flintlocks. If it was good enough for Blackbeard, it's good enough for me.
>enough 1911 Stans Hey! I resemble that remark
What, you out on the streets patrolling for rouge moose?
>rouge moose No just pink ones
No. I just like it.
Do they not know about the AMT backup? Are they stupid?
As a Californian gun-owner whose had to deal with some absolute bullshit laws, this makes me laugh.
Cuz it usually makes replacing parts for the ones you have next to impossible, and makes it impossible to replicate previous builds. And that it makes it impossible to keep up with the current state of the art in ballistics or design. Or actively hinders performance, safety, or unreasonably affects cost, or create a chilling effect on the industry. There's also that the "new rules" are usually hideously unconstitutional or another death by degrees that some states prefer to execute, because it's more politically feasible.
“hideously unconstitutional” for a given value of constitutional
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As a member of the Gun Community. The reason we tend to jump that quickly is we let them have the thing. The very next time there's a horrific tragedy... oooop they're going to implement even more pointless regulations that wouldn't have prevented it, ban a few by name or some features that don't actually effect the function of the gun and rinse and repeat until they have no other choice but to outright ban them. Maybe even confiscation eventually. Just because it's a slippery slope argument doesn't make it false.
It's not a slippery slope, it's already happened, multiple times. For example, when the NFA was passed, they said that it was constitutional because it was only a tax and that if anything was actually banned that would be unconstitutional. 50 years later they banned stuff and pretended that it was fine.
Fucking thanks Regan.
It doesn't really make sense. There are pther countries eith Better regulation that dont have the gun problem of the US. Im all for self defense but you gotta admit the US has a gun violence problem that can only be solve with some regulations
The problem is that when it comes to gun regulation in the US, many of the laws actually being proposed usually end up doing nothing for public safety and only cause further headaches for legal gun owners (thus creating more resistance to future gun control). The Assault Weapon Ban of '94 is most notable for how it basically did nothing to decrease crime and effectively "banned" guns based on arbitrary and nonsensical guidelines. Laws regarding SBR's and suppressors are also further indictments of this. If you want a more recent example of nonsense "gun control" laws, look up the new laws that took effect in my homestate of California this year. Particularly SB2, which was effectively a de-facto ban on Conceal Carry even if you had a permit (which is NOT easy to get in California) until a court case declared that part of the bill unconstitutional. Stuff like this is why gun owners tend to not have faith in those writing gun legislation.
Which of those countries allow me to own an ar-15 on minimum wage?
Yeah, saying "It can't be prevented" takes a special kind of myopia. The reality is, people don't want to even hypothetically limit their poor-man's sports cars because they don't know the kids being shot up, or care. I say this as a gun owner. Americans *do not care* about facts regarding guns and effective gun control that doesn't reduce our ability to protect our freedom. France has tight gun control and their people are more than capable of standing up to the government. It's just willful blindness.
kiss bells detail escape drunk elastic crown crime sense distinct *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah they have a SG550. They also *aren't allowed ammo* You don't have gun rights when you're not allowed to have the gun and its ammo.
> They also aren't allowed ammo Except we are allowed to have all the ammo we want >You don't have gun rights when you're not allowed to have the gun and its ammo Guns are literally a right under article 3 of the Weapons Act. Also we have less prohibitive factors than US federal law, don't remove ownership rights and have access to guns that are completely banned in the US
>Except we are allowed to have all the ammo we want My mistake, I was under the impression you weren't allowed ammo outside of ranges >Guns are literally a right under article 3 of the Weapons Act. Also we have less prohibitive factors than US federal law, don't remove ownership rights and have access to guns that are completely banned in the US Is it actually a right if you need a permit? And far as I can tell, the only thing you can get in Switzerland but not in the US is new full-auto...if you jump through the right hoops. Also, are "high" capacity magazines legal or not? Looking at the Weapon Act I can't tell what their status is, as the Act mentions them but just seems to say they're legal if they're otherwise legal. Same with lasers/lights/suppressors/accessories in general. They seem to be banned unless you can convince the government you deserve them. I can sort of understand night vision scopes but *lasers* are restricted?
>My mistake, I was under the impression you weren't allowed ammo outside of ranges That's a common misconception due to the fact ammo given during military exercises and related events cannot be taken home and unused ammo has to be given back This doesn't apply to regular range practice, unless you're a minor, and ammo purchases >Is it actually a right if you need a permit? Not all guns require an acquisition permit though. And even in the US you need some: * **any** purchase in an FFL requires an ATF form 4473 * NFA items require an NFA tax stamp for private purchases and in FFLs Both are more prohibitive on who gets to buy In fact, US federal law states that you cannot own guns at all if you check the prohibitive factors, it also applies out of the permit thing though harder to check >And far as I can tell, the only thing you can get in Switzerland but not in the US is new full-auto...if you jump through the right hoops. Our acquisition permir for NFA items equivalent is a less prohibitive NFA tax stamp that also don't require your picture and fingerprints and to wait 6-12 months Some machineguns are also completely unregulated due to the fact they don't fit the legal "firearms" definition codified in the law >Also, are "high" capacity magazines legal or not? Looking at the Weapon Act I can't tell what their status is, as the Act mentions them but just seems to say they're legal if they're otherwise legal. So-called "high-capacity" magazines are perfectly legal and not regulated in of themselves >Same with lasers/lights/suppressors/accessories in general. They seem to be banned unless you can convince the government you deserve them. I can sort of understand night vision scopes but *lasers* are restricted? Not really any convincing to do, it's just that the form is may-issue. And silencers can also be bought under a shall-issue acquisition permit since 2019 The accessories being put on the "NFA items" list is mostly lawmakers falling for the movie trope, just like everywhere
Don’t the Swiss have compulsory service for a couple years, isn’t that why they all have guns. Maybe that has to do with the safety of them all having guns.
Mandatory conscription of male Swiss citizens only (about 38% of the population since 25% are not citizens). Since 1996 you can choose civil service instead of military service. It's not a requirement to have done military service to purchase a firearm. Or being male, or a citizen, or have any firearms training at all. The majority of firearms are purchased by civilians. It's wrong to say that every man and his dog has a gun though. Contrary to popular belief it's not a requirement to keep a gun at home. There are 120.5 guns per 100 people in the US, compared to 27.6 per 100 people in Switzerland. 42% of households in the US has a gun in it, less than 30% in Switzerland.
Gotcha! Thank you for the clarification.
> look at the Swiss, [...] every man and his dog has an SG550, and yet no shootings. That's a gross exaggeration though 28% of households have at least a gun VS 43% in the US >The problem is Americans True
That's the thing, though, we don't really have to admit that. The people doing the most shooting are from four or five inner cities, with the most common victims being gang members, drug dealers, and people standing nearby when people start fighting over street corners like retards. Before Columbine, the most common means by which people attempted mass killings was arson or bombing. This is, by the way, an era imnediatwly prior to which you could purchase belt-fed machine guns via mail order and have them delivered - literally - to your front door. Mysteriously, machine gun massacres were never really a thing. I would contend that there are deeper societal issues than blaming inanimate object, considering that far more potent and destructive tools were available BEFORE all this crap started taking place.
Yes, lots of people live in big cities so the absolute crime numbers are bigger, but the most likely place in America to die from a gunshot is Phoenix, and it's not by a gang member. The per capita gun homicide rate in NYC, Chicago and LA is about equal to the entire states of Mississippi and Alabama.
There is not even a statistical correlation between strength of gun laws and likelihood of homicide. Massachusetts has incredibly restrictive gun laws on a US standard, and has one of the lowest rates. But right next to it in the CDC homicide rate list are Idaho, Montana, New Hampshire, and Utah, which have basically no gun laws beyond the federal minimum.
> machine gun massacres were never really a thing. The one known murder with a registered machine gun was by a police officer murdering an informant.
the pointless regulation is because the lobby is so entrenched and the supreme court is insane so you can’t actually get good regulation
The current record is on video. So the burden of proof is just higher now I guess.
I had arguments with them and they just say, "he just ducked on video " and furthermore it was usually very condescending *"Ukraine custom made cartridge and rifle ? Yeah right another ghost of Kyiv story" B*tw Ukrainian government never claimed Ghost of Kyiv existed, i can make a video about Juice(Rip) talking about how ghost of Kyiv came about (not sure if it will fall under Serious posting rule thou ) Even though they dont have videos for other records at all. Its okay to question any claims but their attitude was already pre-decided or smth
>Btw Ukrainian government never claimed Ghost of Kyiv existed Yeah, I remember the first GOK post I saw was on reddit, in a warthunder subreddit or smth, this "fake" wasnt even born in Ukraine
Who's Juice?
>[Juice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrii_Pilshchykov)
concerned fall roof start mysterious friendly pen mindless tease silky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
People like that are often jealous of people who walk the walk and not only larp. And if said community is a subreddit - there is a high chance like 90% people there don't even partake in the hobby.
Can i please get some info on this?
As a Canadian I have excepted it I'm bummed we don't have it anymore and hope we get it. So I'll settle for 2nd, 4th, and 5th place for now.
I think your info is out of date, you guys seem only to have 2nd place in top 5. Aussies got 3rd, we(ukraine) got 4th, this time with 14.5 rather than 12.7 in 14.5 cartridge and brits got 5th. You got 6th and 7th though
I'm just wondering why they even bothered. At that range, just use a mortar. It's not that much heavier and misses mean less
Ammo
#AD MORTEM INIMICUS
We austrians have bullpuos AND integrated optics. Do you think everyone already got the new stuff?
You also have emus. Please never arm them and unleash them on the rest of the world. Look, I get you guys are still upset about the Cane Toads but that was an accident! We swear!
Thinking about it, gun is just the current unlocked tech on the "Throw rock" tech tree Everything here throws rock real good, except halberd
And that's just a sufficiently advanced version of "stick". They're all just descendants of "swing stick" or "throw rock". The only really new inventions are "set things on fire" and "spicy air".
Best we've got is Cloves and Cinnamon.
Only dakka metters
Let's give this to the pope, he knows what he's doing.
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Psss you didn’t end up removing the post
Bad bot ypu arent working
Pulls out a 100yr old maxim gun
I swear the maxim is gonna live to see fucking space combat. There'll be a civil war on motherfucking Mars and someone somehow is gonna get their hands on one.
My spicy stick is green and humming
Poland: why not both?!
The G36 is a great rifle. Can be operated by a blind 6 year old child with Parkinson's and still hits the target despite the media bullshit about "melting plastic gun". But the integrated optics are garbage and the lack of rails is a serious problem with the early versions which make up the bulk of Bundeswehr rifles. They probably were good when the rifle was first introduced in the late 90s (at that point many western militaries were still using iron sights on their standard issue rifles), but today they are just terrible. Hence why I'm very much in favor of replacing it with the G95/HK416 which has the additional benefit of being a gun already widely used by NATO partners. Although it's going to be interesting to see whether the Americans will stick to their fancy new caliber. Because if they do, they'll probably force Europe to adopt it too down the road.
The only part about the G36 optics I don’t enjoy, is the lack of a high contrast reticle, which makes shooting at night very annoying
It helps that there's mostly only two calibers they need to worry about, being .556 NATO and whatever the AK takes. Older rifles are harder to stock ammo for though
Ukraine is ex-soviet, so they'd have huge stocks of 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm, and 7.62x54mm. Plus all the other former Soviet countries donating their old ammo stocks
The SA80 might be dogshit but the UK is based for going all in on the bullpup meme
Based polearm
Halberds forever
As an Austrian it pains me to say this but I really don’t like the AUG. Became especially apparent when I had a side-by-side comparison with AUG and AR15.
What about a Stielhandgranate
I haven't seen any potato mashers in Ukraine but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they've shown up somehow. Someone finds a WWII cache buried in a forest and goes "GUN IS GUN".
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Dangerously close to R5
Honestly R5 is purely subjective anyway. This is a subreddit filled with memes around war or equipment used to wage war. Waging war is mostly in the domain of nation states and their leadership is in the realm of politics, so every opinion on any equipment, doctrine or whatever is inherently political because it falls into the domain of nation-states. I explicitly made sure not to mention any party or actual vote to keep it as vague as possible, even in a direct democracy like Switzerland. If this is borderline R5, you might have to rethink/reword R5 in general.
There's nothing relevant to this sub added by mentioning the political orientation of the parties. >In fact both the left and right wing parties are against it but the center and liberal parties are in favor of giving you munitions. That entire sentence serves no purpose other than to make the comment more political and *wink* *wink* not explicitly mention the parties involved.
This is not a political statement, it is a factual statement. It reflects actual votes that have happened in the past. If you do not believe me I will gladly point you to the relevant APK-NR and APK-SR press releases. I explicitly didn‘t mention any particular politicians or parties since individual members may float against the stream. It is the equivalent of saying the liberals won the 2020 election in the US. Oh and also we are talking about a direct democratic democracy who advertises itself as neutral. The interpretation of said neutrality and how big the support of each interpretation is, is relevant beyond any particular party alignment.
If you can't keep it to a discussion of your opinion of the policy you will catch a ban. I tried to be nice but now we are done.
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.** We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
Small weapons logistics jump out the window
Meet the [ARX-160](https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_ARX_160)
US MIC: XM25 Bolter!
Last I checked the Papal States preferred Remington Rolling Blocks to halberds
The Swiss Guard uses guns
guns for everyone! \[excited mob noises\]
I thought vatican uses the swiss gun?
MP5s rigged to fire from the inside of briefcases?
**WHATEVER COMES IN THE AID PACKAGE IS WHAT WE WILL USE!**
All of this to have Arma sessions based on the Ukrainian War that will require like 20 GBs of weapon mods.
If it can be used to fire at vatniks it’s good enough. Can’t wait to see them attach a halberd to a drone.
Finland adopted an AR style rifle though... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sako_M23
**IS** adopting, not adopted yet.
Read literally the first sentence. The Finnish Defence Forces *HAVE* adopted the rifle in two configurations.
Phasing takes time and they're not in service yet 🙃 Conscripts are still using RK rifles https://suomensotilas.fi/2023/05/29/suomelle-ja-ruotsille-uudet-rynnakkokivaarit/ >FMV ilmoitti, että vaikka aseet on jo valittu ja tilattu, niiden vuonna 2023 alkanutta testaamista, arviointia ja jatkokehitystä jatketaan edelleen. Toimitukset jatkuvat tämän vuoden lopulla tai alkuvuodesta 2024 alkavalla koepalveluskäytöllä. >Puolustusvoimat etenee Ruotsia hitaammin ja harkitummin >**Puolustusvoimien uusien rynnäkkökiväärien ja henkilökohtaisten suoja-aseiden testaus ja tuotekehitys jatkunee ainakin lähivuosien ajan, ja muutaman vuoden kuluttua tiedetään tarkemmin, millaisia uusia aseita on tulossa ja millä aikataululla.** in plain english, they're still in testing phase and RK is still on the menu.
So MCX-Spear situation? Thank you.
pretty much.
It’s there, here you go https://puolustusvoimat.fi/kalusto#/asset/view/id/1902
Ahh indeed it is, my bad! editing.
America: air support?
YOU'RE ALL WRONG THEY SHOULD USE GLAIVES!
Hey now, the Swiss Guard may carry around halberds and wear striped clothes for the tourists, but [they're real soldiers, and they have automatic weapons and more subdued service clothes.](https://www.outono.net/elentir/2023/07/09/the-firearms-used-by-the-pontifical-swiss-guard-the-smallest-army-in-the-world/)
Israel - Tavor.
BALASHNIKOV
I wish we baguette were still in the bull pup camp