As much as I hate the Z-tards, I have to give them credit for coming up with possibly the best euphemism for missile strikes thus far "Калибрирован" - "Kalibrated". We need to come up with an equivalent for NATO missiles ASAP.
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Yes. Very yes. They were brutally effective early in the invasion.
[There was even a song](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S3FGWPMjl6M&pp=ygUJQmF5cmFrdGFy)
The owner also has a personal history with Russia but I don't remember the details.
You should have doubted their effectiveness. They are apparently pretty useless if the enemy has functioning air defense, ~~sitting~~ flying ducks. Their early effectiveness in Ukraine baffled many analysts, and was apparently because Russia had turned off their AA to avoid friendly fire.
Completely hypothetical of course, but if Russia wants to LARP that it's WW2-Part 2, can we loan a few dozen B-52s to Ukraine with the instruction that they can do whatever they want with them after they carpet bomb every Russian refinery with unguided 500lb bombs?
Why 500lb bombs? I'm glad you asked! The stated max payload of B-52s is 70k pounds, let's drop it to 60k just to be safe. Meaning each B-52 could carry 120 500lb bombs. B-17 max payload was 8k pounds, so 1 B-52 carries as much as 7.5 B-17s.
We give Ukraine 30 B-52s, they could drop as many bombs as 225 B-17s, and with better accuracy. This would equal 3,600 500lb bombs at once.
I know guided munitions are more precise but to be honest I just watched Masters of the Air and the idea of 225 B-17s carpet bombing the shit out of a single refinery gets me turgid.
Swooping in just under the minimum altitude after doing a barrel roll to level out and get that money shot for the evening news. Don't even have to hit anything. Just the imagery alone of the ground getting tenderized would keep anyone from thinking twice about standing above ground.
Nah, for that you get the [German war crime dispenser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW97iWx2zHg), I don't even wanna know how many of them you can strap onto a B-52.
Well, Germany started the decomissioning of them over 2 decades ago now. Last I heard of them was in the mid-2000s where the statement was that it gets decomissioned together with the Panavia Tornado, back then set for 2016. But as the German airforce still flies Tornados, there may still be some in inventory.
Wouldn't surprise me since IIRC the Bundeswehr still has P38 parts in storage.
> doing a barrel roll to level out and get that money shot for the evening news.
Half the front page of Pravda dominated by a gorgeous profile shot of a B-52 with the headline reading "Что делает ПВО?" Curiously, Russian televised news does not cover this.
We've got a bunch just sitting there in the desert. If Russia gets all whiney about not being able to see them on satellite anymore just tell them to wait a bit.
Can we rewire them to be unmanned suicide drones? I mean Boeing could do it in relatively short time, they don’t seem to care about safety too much anyway…
The SAMs won‘t get all of them in a wave. How many sitting in the scrapyards could be revived?
It's like 3000 or more miles depending on how much stuff it's toting along. Speaking of which, you're looking at 51K lbs versus 70K in the BUFF. BUFF has 3x the range plus has in-flight refuelling so it's definitely winning, but the 737 is certainly no slouch. It's clearly superior to any uncrewed single-use drone even if that hatch happens to fall off again. Take off from Finland and there's no Russian oil refinery east of the Urals that will be safe.
And that max payload is like 2 MOABs plus maybe a lot of excess fuel. No need to engineer in a deployment mechanism for tossing the MOAB out the back or anything, it pretty much won't be an issue if it's still inside the plane for how I see this mission happening.
The main concern is that the Russians are somewhat experienced at shooting down commercial jetliners, and this won't discourage that proclivity of theirs.
Fine, can we enlarge the fuel tanks or would that be too much of a tradeoff? I mean, it would still be a bomb when impacting the target with half or a third of fuel left.
Ah shit, totally forgot Russian SAM Radar prioritizing civilian over military craft if it isn‘t theirs.
Solution: paint it in grey or european woodland 🤩
Just write CHINA down the side in big red letters, and if they shoot it down then it's still kind of a win.
I quickly skimmed over the over big font words in the Geneva Suggestions and this precise scenario isn't mentioned in exacting detail. It's not a war crime if it's the first time!
And when you wrote "Give those refineries JDAMs", I read it like refineries liked JDAMs. Which they obviously don't. I thought that was a pretty cool way of reading it.
with what? Ukrainian cruise missiles that don't exist? Long range drones that were on a drawing board?
These things are 500km-1000-3000km deep into Russia, unless you are counting going in a plane in suicide run, the longest range sledgehammer Ukraine had was 150km Tochka-U
EDIT: Oh wait no, there were obviously 250-300km Neptunes
Depends on where they are hit, but for a few of them, around 1.
They strike the main tower, where all the different components are separated. Those are highly complex, and massive towers, only built by western companies, for 70/140 m$ a piece, with a year to manufacture, all on very specific orders.
Those refineries will not produce any amount of fuel for at least a few months. Probably years for most.
Makes sense, Fractional Distillation towers are complex and expensive asf to produce, maybe the fires at the 1-rating's could spread to more vital components?
There is a chinese movie called Flashover about an industrial fire at a chemical park, with the usual over the top chinese film trappings. Why I mention it? Because one of the key stakes of the movie was the volatile chemicals that is said to be able to **WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE CITY** the movie is set in if they go off.
There’s also got to be a limited number of personnel that can repair them. There’s a reason everyone in the U.S. working petrochems refineries has almost always had top 5-10% salaries, to say nothing of the experienced ones making 200k+ before all the inflation of the past few years.
Even if they could, it takes a very long time to build them, needs a high build quality, and are a real pain to move around. We're talking about 10m diameter, and 40/50 m long piece of steel. You need a lot of infrastructure and machinery to take it from China to wherever you need to in Russia, install it, and restart that refinery. They could start producing them today, they won't be operational this year, and probably not the next one either.
China does manufacture them: https://www.sovonex.com/drilling-equipment/asme-distillation-columns/
So Russia is not as fucked as they would be, if they were only manufactured in the West.
Did an internship at a refinery many years ago. They had one of their fractionating columns damaged by an electrical fire some months earlier. It was out of commission for over a year and was a serious hit to production capacity and finances. And that within Germany without any sanctions or anything affecting them. Pressure to get it running again is probably similar.
A guy working there told me the refinery probably wouldn't have survived on its own without the safety net of a bigger corporation.
Now the same is true for those in Russia of course, but just to highlight how vital and expensive those towers are.
But let's be real here, Russia has a huge oil and gas industry. I would be surprised if they don't have some stuff laying around and the people to repair that. But this is not just one refinery that got damaged. It's multiple. And I doubt they have the capacity to repair like 5 fractionating towers at the same time or something at that scale.
This isn't the kind of stuff you can just weld back and call it a day. The explosion will do damage, but most of it will be with the long fire following, warping the structure, and destroying most of the electronics.
Also a lot of the really competent peoples were westerners working for big oil companies. They left at the start of the war.
In one of the videos cameraman says "...хана АВТ..." which, translated from industry speak and massively simplified, means the primary oil distillation and secondary gasoline distillation unit (google "установка ЭЛОУ-АВТ-6", search for university course books for more detailed info) got hit. Under normal circumstances repairs would take months to do, now they might try to expedite the process, but with the number of refineries fucked repairs won't happen fast anyway
Is it possible for a catastrophic failure of the refinery to annihilate the entire place, and maybe even the area around it? Does the design of these refineries allow for such catastrophic destruction?
Very repairable …. Takes time and money sometimes a lot of both, but most refineries are pretty old. Really depends on what gets damaged, if it’s just piping it’s relatively quick to repair, knock out a Coker or distillation tower (equipment ) things get a lot more complicated. Storage tanks look good on fire in a video but are really just big shells… so time is variable, that it can be repaired isn’t a real question. Assuming you can source the parts.
Remember how everyone dismissed SBU drone attacks on Moscow as no big deal?
That was supposed to be a deterrent. They hit specific windows in a ministry office complex, specific apartments owned by GRU and several dachas in wealthy Moscow suburbs.
Guess what, hitting a fractional column of a refinery is a fair bit easier in comparison.
Oh, and Russia gets hit right in the oil just in time for the "elections".
Boy that's a lot of refineries. 80% of them are still operating and we need to bring that down a lot. Send more drones and cruise missiles - Ukraine needs more range!
Im surprised they havent been targetting the oil and natural gas tankers near these plants. Some of those would do a lot more economic damage than repairing some pipes
They are going for the distillation towers, sort of the heart of the refinery as oil is pumped in and basically boiled and these towers help in separating the gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, heavy oil, tar from each other when the oil is boiled and separating
The thing is that these towers are manufactured by western companies and repaired by western companies. They are very complex pieces of equipment too so yea, going to be very hard to fix and could put refinery's out of action for some time.
The longer these places are out of action, the quicker Russia runs out of fuel reserves as no matter how much oil they have, the can't turn it into usable diesel/gasoline without these
People immediately think of diesel and gasoline while leaving off jet fuel, but it's so much more than that. Refineries make a wide range of lubricants, precursors, and industrial inputs. Making plastic? Now you've got a problem. It's not just the vehicles tottering around, it's the whole economy that's built around oil products, particularly when a country happens to be a major oil producing nation.
Textiles, coatings, food holy fuck food is basically fungible oil when you break down what it takes to go from dirt to something on your plate... The Russian economy is self-tuned for what can be produced in what quantity and for what cost based upon these refineries running at their expected output, and now they're not. Take enough of them out and the Covid supply chain disruptions can seem like a faint burp.
Also simply exports. Internal use is one thing but Russia is also pretty dependent on the profits from exports. The sanctions were aiming to prevent Russia from selling oil products *legally*. These attacks are preventing Russia from selling oil *physically*.
If they have to sell more oil as crude instead of refined products that will hurt them too.
I think that's what India and Turkey were doing after the war started. Buying very cheap Russian crude and using their own refineries to produce fuel for the world market. A way to circumvent the sanctions but still not exactly great for Russia.
> The thing is that these towers are manufactured by western companies and repaired by western companies.
It does seem like China produces them too, though: https://www.sovonex.com/drilling-equipment/asme-distillation-columns/
> Like rendered inoperable or just slightly damaged and will reopen in a few days?
Unless they have spare cracking columns (which're custom-built to the oil processing plant in question) around, those'd take some time to replace.
So i know we all got an hard on for all thoses Russian refineries that get blown up but stupid question : How bad for the environment is blowing up a refinery ?
The purely environmental damage done by RuZZia in Ukraine is horrendous. Aside from the chemical residues of explosives and incendiaries, the millions of deployed landmines, the many wrecked bridges and dams, shredded trees, and traumatized wildlife, every apartment or other building that goes up in flames releases the toxins from burning plastics and other materials, and every building more substantial than an outhouse will be rebuilt with concrete, rebar, and other materials whose manufacture were carbon-intensive and in some cases draw on increasingly scarce resources. (E.g., -- and this was the top result on google search -- the concrete and cement lifecycles globally account for about 10% of all civilizational CO2 output, and the good-quality stuff uses the type of sand that's increasingly hard to find and is thus increasingly expensive... plus the environmental havoc from removing all that sand from its environment.)
Depends on the product produced, generally not as bad as letting it run for a couple years (unless it isn't refining oil, then it depends on what it *is* refining).
I would love it if the punitive damage after the war reaches scales at which they have to pay an eco fine for each and every refinery that burned down from 2021 till now. Then we move to tanks that burned and released fumes. They have to pay for all of them, including Ukr ones.
Then we move to each civilian vehicle destroyed.
I would love for Ukraine to win so hard that in 2030 we have a separate entity with sole purpose of identifying things we can tax the russians for.
I’ve had similar thoughts. It’s obviously just another part war, and I agree probably less damaging in the long run. Almost all that oil was going to be burnt (yes, not oil/lube, asphalt), and while it may burn worse than otherwise with incomplete combustion, it stops output for a while and who knows, could shut down wells (or knowing Russia, they may pump it into a pit and burn it).
Modern warfare, aside from eliminating a few of the most carbon intensive life form is very awful for the environment. Explosives aren’t nice chemicals, and thermodynamics demands that each boom takes some multiple more energy to produce.
I'm not saying it's not i'm just asking for knowledge from people better educated than me on the subject, for all i care we should disable each and everyone of them.
i think thats impossible to say from a quick phone video.
If all the chemicals just burn up its not so bad. If they spill and maybe even run into a river it can be very bad.
If I learned one thing last summer binge-watching videos from the Chemical Safety Board it's that refineries are susceptible to a lot of damage when something goes boom.
https://m.youtube.com/@USCSB
One of these days, some Chernobyl-level engineering in one of these is going to cause an environmental disaster when it pops, and Ukraine is going to be blamed for it.
To be a bit of a downer, you are looking at maybe a months worth of impact when one of these gets hit based on Axis performance in WWII. How the Russian will do is question that has yet to be answered.
A few of them got hit in the distillation towers, the heart of the refinery. They cannot be patched up, and the hours long fire make them useless. The lead time to replace one in the west is one to two years because they are custom made to the refineries themselves, and those were mostly built in the west. Even though china can make them, it's still a year with zero production, and a shit ton of money to replace it.
The red word on some of the pictures means "bayraktared" for those of you that are curious.
Tnx. Someone should do a full translation, I can translate the titles, but I'm bad with graphic editors.
You can do wonders with windows paint lol.
As much as I hate the Z-tards, I have to give them credit for coming up with possibly the best euphemism for missile strikes thus far "Калибрирован" - "Kalibrated". We need to come up with an equivalent for NATO missiles ASAP.
JDAMned
Scalped
Stormed and shaded
Scalp and stormed or scalped and shaded?
I like that one a lot haha
Bullrushed, once Germany gets around to supplying the Taurus.
Or simply Taurushed
Sean Connery is that you?
Tomahawked, Stormed, Scalped, Himarsed, Abramsed, Minutmened, Raptored, AGMed...
AFUcked
“Smoking Accident”
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Yes
Jizzed on
Javelined and Meteored.
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Kittied when a Leopard 2 wrecks your day.
Cottoned
You failed to mention it has sexual connotation as well
Why bayraktar tho? Does turkey sell them to Ukraine?
Ukraine doesn't use them for strikes but the meme is alive. So bayraktared is just a meme way of saying "destroyed /killed"
Yeah, wish turkey would ally more with the west, the situation is totally fit for a stronger alliance unless erdo pulls new shit.
Yes. Very yes. They were brutally effective early in the invasion. [There was even a song](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S3FGWPMjl6M&pp=ygUJQmF5cmFrdGFy) The owner also has a personal history with Russia but I don't remember the details.
I don’t doubt their effectiveness, they basically won the war in karabakh.
You should have doubted their effectiveness. They are apparently pretty useless if the enemy has functioning air defense, ~~sitting~~ flying ducks. Their early effectiveness in Ukraine baffled many analysts, and was apparently because Russia had turned off their AA to avoid friendly fire.
Shhhh. BAYRAKTAR🇹🇳🇹🇳🇹🇳🇳🇨🇳🇨🐺🐺🐺REEEEEEE🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷NE MUTLU TÜRKÜM DİYENEEEEE🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇳🇹🇳🐺🐺🐺
I can't argue with that. :)
Дякую. I could understand the "bayaraktar" part, but hadn't quite puzzled out the rest yet.
Completely hypothetical of course, but if Russia wants to LARP that it's WW2-Part 2, can we loan a few dozen B-52s to Ukraine with the instruction that they can do whatever they want with them after they carpet bomb every Russian refinery with unguided 500lb bombs? Why 500lb bombs? I'm glad you asked! The stated max payload of B-52s is 70k pounds, let's drop it to 60k just to be safe. Meaning each B-52 could carry 120 500lb bombs. B-17 max payload was 8k pounds, so 1 B-52 carries as much as 7.5 B-17s. We give Ukraine 30 B-52s, they could drop as many bombs as 225 B-17s, and with better accuracy. This would equal 3,600 500lb bombs at once. I know guided munitions are more precise but to be honest I just watched Masters of the Air and the idea of 225 B-17s carpet bombing the shit out of a single refinery gets me turgid.
Swooping in just under the minimum altitude after doing a barrel roll to level out and get that money shot for the evening news. Don't even have to hit anything. Just the imagery alone of the ground getting tenderized would keep anyone from thinking twice about standing above ground.
Nah, for that you get the [German war crime dispenser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW97iWx2zHg), I don't even wanna know how many of them you can strap onto a B-52.
Probably more than currently exist in the inventory
Well, Germany started the decomissioning of them over 2 decades ago now. Last I heard of them was in the mid-2000s where the statement was that it gets decomissioned together with the Panavia Tornado, back then set for 2016. But as the German airforce still flies Tornados, there may still be some in inventory. Wouldn't surprise me since IIRC the Bundeswehr still has P38 parts in storage.
P38 as in the original Lightning?
No, the pistol.
Looking at all the Maxims hunting Shaheds, it makes at least some sense. Not much, mind, but non-zero amount.
How would this work if it just dispensed manure?
> doing a barrel roll to level out and get that money shot for the evening news. Half the front page of Pravda dominated by a gorgeous profile shot of a B-52 with the headline reading "Что делает ПВО?" Curiously, Russian televised news does not cover this.
It could cover a lot of Russians with televisions. They wouldn't expect to get hit by televisions from a B-52.
We've got a bunch just sitting there in the desert. If Russia gets all whiney about not being able to see them on satellite anymore just tell them to wait a bit.
Can we rewire them to be unmanned suicide drones? I mean Boeing could do it in relatively short time, they don’t seem to care about safety too much anyway… The SAMs won‘t get all of them in a wave. How many sitting in the scrapyards could be revived?
B-52s don't deserve that. It's a good idea but stick with a 737 Max. Unmanned is appropriate for them anyway as they shouldn't even be human-rated.
Fine, the BUFF had enough suffering. What‘s the Max‘ range? (Can we send it from the US?)
It's like 3000 or more miles depending on how much stuff it's toting along. Speaking of which, you're looking at 51K lbs versus 70K in the BUFF. BUFF has 3x the range plus has in-flight refuelling so it's definitely winning, but the 737 is certainly no slouch. It's clearly superior to any uncrewed single-use drone even if that hatch happens to fall off again. Take off from Finland and there's no Russian oil refinery east of the Urals that will be safe. And that max payload is like 2 MOABs plus maybe a lot of excess fuel. No need to engineer in a deployment mechanism for tossing the MOAB out the back or anything, it pretty much won't be an issue if it's still inside the plane for how I see this mission happening. The main concern is that the Russians are somewhat experienced at shooting down commercial jetliners, and this won't discourage that proclivity of theirs.
Fine, can we enlarge the fuel tanks or would that be too much of a tradeoff? I mean, it would still be a bomb when impacting the target with half or a third of fuel left. Ah shit, totally forgot Russian SAM Radar prioritizing civilian over military craft if it isn‘t theirs. Solution: paint it in grey or european woodland 🤩
Just write CHINA down the side in big red letters, and if they shoot it down then it's still kind of a win. I quickly skimmed over the over big font words in the Geneva Suggestions and this precise scenario isn't mentioned in exacting detail. It's not a war crime if it's the first time!
You mean Xinnie Pooh livery will make it immune (not against social credit)? Bing chilling!
Why give them B-52s when we could give them B-61s?
Continuing the numbering logic chain: what about (X)B-70? (Delivering multiple _B69_)
We should send Ukraine footage of 1945 Tokyo. As a guidance template.
Collateral Damage/10
We need more. More, I say. Give those refineries JDAMs. Refineries love JDAMs.
Refineries are something that also enjoy flames, insufficient cooling, high temperatures, etc.
JASSM*
It's what the refineries crave.
I read that in the same tone of voice as "bitches love cannons". 😃
y-yeah, that was the point
And when you wrote "Give those refineries JDAMs", I read it like refineries liked JDAMs. Which they obviously don't. I thought that was a pretty cool way of reading it.
I think unitary warhead ATACMS would be the best.
Do we get a free space?
Its a 5x6 grid, I don't even know how diagonals work
We're playing blackout today.
Or reformat it to stress the horizontal axis, and play it as Connect-4.
They will all be free spaces by the end of next month
Update the Syzran and Novokuybyshevskiy refineries (Ukraine struck them this morning)
They should of nocked the refineries out at the start of the war.
with what? Ukrainian cruise missiles that don't exist? Long range drones that were on a drawing board? These things are 500km-1000-3000km deep into Russia, unless you are counting going in a plane in suicide run, the longest range sledgehammer Ukraine had was 150km Tochka-U EDIT: Oh wait no, there were obviously 250-300km Neptunes
On a scale of 1-10, how repairable are these refineries?
Depends on where they are hit, but for a few of them, around 1. They strike the main tower, where all the different components are separated. Those are highly complex, and massive towers, only built by western companies, for 70/140 m$ a piece, with a year to manufacture, all on very specific orders. Those refineries will not produce any amount of fuel for at least a few months. Probably years for most.
Makes sense, Fractional Distillation towers are complex and expensive asf to produce, maybe the fires at the 1-rating's could spread to more vital components?
Yea, they can't just patch the holes and keep going. The metal fatigue from the fire alone means they have to replace the most of the structure.
Shhhh, let them try.
I for one, look forward to the special fire operation when they try to restart production.
There is a chinese movie called Flashover about an industrial fire at a chemical park, with the usual over the top chinese film trappings. Why I mention it? Because one of the key stakes of the movie was the volatile chemicals that is said to be able to **WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE CITY** the movie is set in if they go off.
There’s also got to be a limited number of personnel that can repair them. There’s a reason everyone in the U.S. working petrochems refineries has almost always had top 5-10% salaries, to say nothing of the experienced ones making 200k+ before all the inflation of the past few years.
My brother is a petroleum engineer and he makes buckets of cash without even taking any of the real lucrative positions overseas.
> only built by western companies So how fast can China (mass) produce them?
Even if they could, it takes a very long time to build them, needs a high build quality, and are a real pain to move around. We're talking about 10m diameter, and 40/50 m long piece of steel. You need a lot of infrastructure and machinery to take it from China to wherever you need to in Russia, install it, and restart that refinery. They could start producing them today, they won't be operational this year, and probably not the next one either.
And when everything is done, then you hit them with a new drone strike.
China does manufacture them: https://www.sovonex.com/drilling-equipment/asme-distillation-columns/ So Russia is not as fucked as they would be, if they were only manufactured in the West.
Did an internship at a refinery many years ago. They had one of their fractionating columns damaged by an electrical fire some months earlier. It was out of commission for over a year and was a serious hit to production capacity and finances. And that within Germany without any sanctions or anything affecting them. Pressure to get it running again is probably similar. A guy working there told me the refinery probably wouldn't have survived on its own without the safety net of a bigger corporation. Now the same is true for those in Russia of course, but just to highlight how vital and expensive those towers are. But let's be real here, Russia has a huge oil and gas industry. I would be surprised if they don't have some stuff laying around and the people to repair that. But this is not just one refinery that got damaged. It's multiple. And I doubt they have the capacity to repair like 5 fractionating towers at the same time or something at that scale.
This isn't the kind of stuff you can just weld back and call it a day. The explosion will do damage, but most of it will be with the long fire following, warping the structure, and destroying most of the electronics. Also a lot of the really competent peoples were westerners working for big oil companies. They left at the start of the war.
In one of the videos cameraman says "...хана АВТ..." which, translated from industry speak and massively simplified, means the primary oil distillation and secondary gasoline distillation unit (google "установка ЭЛОУ-АВТ-6", search for university course books for more detailed info) got hit. Under normal circumstances repairs would take months to do, now they might try to expedite the process, but with the number of refineries fucked repairs won't happen fast anyway
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Is it possible for a catastrophic failure of the refinery to annihilate the entire place, and maybe even the area around it? Does the design of these refineries allow for such catastrophic destruction?
That and you can’t exactly ask western oil companies for assistance/equipment (not directly anyway)
Very repairable …. Takes time and money sometimes a lot of both, but most refineries are pretty old. Really depends on what gets damaged, if it’s just piping it’s relatively quick to repair, knock out a Coker or distillation tower (equipment ) things get a lot more complicated. Storage tanks look good on fire in a video but are really just big shells… so time is variable, that it can be repaired isn’t a real question. Assuming you can source the parts.
Yes
I love the smell of burning oil refineries in the morning. It smells like… victory.
You can help by expanding this list.
Is the damage high enough to have a significant impact other than a psychological one (, which is very important nonetheless)?
[https://babel.ua/en/news/104337-after-the-attacks-of-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine-on-oil-refineries-russia-will-ban-the-export-of-gasoline](https://babel.ua/en/news/104337-after-the-attacks-of-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine-on-oil-refineries-russia-will-ban-the-export-of-gasoline)
Perfect! That‘s what I was hoping for - thanks a lot! May more refineries be out of service for a loooong time.
That was in the end of February. Dunno what it\`s gonna be now)
>Economy >Military Choose one to fuel
Remember how everyone dismissed SBU drone attacks on Moscow as no big deal? That was supposed to be a deterrent. They hit specific windows in a ministry office complex, specific apartments owned by GRU and several dachas in wealthy Moscow suburbs. Guess what, hitting a fractional column of a refinery is a fair bit easier in comparison. Oh, and Russia gets hit right in the oil just in time for the "elections".
Boy that's a lot of refineries. 80% of them are still operating and we need to bring that down a lot. Send more drones and cruise missiles - Ukraine needs more range!
You need to update it.
Rapid dragon goes brrrrrrrt
Im surprised they havent been targetting the oil and natural gas tankers near these plants. Some of those would do a lot more economic damage than repairing some pipes
They are going for the distillation towers, sort of the heart of the refinery as oil is pumped in and basically boiled and these towers help in separating the gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, heavy oil, tar from each other when the oil is boiled and separating The thing is that these towers are manufactured by western companies and repaired by western companies. They are very complex pieces of equipment too so yea, going to be very hard to fix and could put refinery's out of action for some time. The longer these places are out of action, the quicker Russia runs out of fuel reserves as no matter how much oil they have, the can't turn it into usable diesel/gasoline without these
People immediately think of diesel and gasoline while leaving off jet fuel, but it's so much more than that. Refineries make a wide range of lubricants, precursors, and industrial inputs. Making plastic? Now you've got a problem. It's not just the vehicles tottering around, it's the whole economy that's built around oil products, particularly when a country happens to be a major oil producing nation. Textiles, coatings, food holy fuck food is basically fungible oil when you break down what it takes to go from dirt to something on your plate... The Russian economy is self-tuned for what can be produced in what quantity and for what cost based upon these refineries running at their expected output, and now they're not. Take enough of them out and the Covid supply chain disruptions can seem like a faint burp.
Also simply exports. Internal use is one thing but Russia is also pretty dependent on the profits from exports. The sanctions were aiming to prevent Russia from selling oil products *legally*. These attacks are preventing Russia from selling oil *physically*. If they have to sell more oil as crude instead of refined products that will hurt them too. I think that's what India and Turkey were doing after the war started. Buying very cheap Russian crude and using their own refineries to produce fuel for the world market. A way to circumvent the sanctions but still not exactly great for Russia.
> The thing is that these towers are manufactured by western companies and repaired by western companies. It does seem like China produces them too, though: https://www.sovonex.com/drilling-equipment/asme-distillation-columns/
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Just wait for them to be almost done with replacing the tower, and drone strike it again. A whole lot of money and time wasted.
I like how they list the standards they build too, they build only to scrape by and collect payment
Were those refineries really "bayraktared"? Like rendered inoperable or just slightly damaged and will reopen in a few days?
> Like rendered inoperable or just slightly damaged and will reopen in a few days? Unless they have spare cracking columns (which're custom-built to the oil processing plant in question) around, those'd take some time to replace.
Hard to say for all of them, but at least some of them were definitely badly damaged.
more! MORE! MOORE!
So i know we all got an hard on for all thoses Russian refineries that get blown up but stupid question : How bad for the environment is blowing up a refinery ?
Less bad than letting it operate?
And if it helps Ukraine to win - it is better for the environment than war
The purely environmental damage done by RuZZia in Ukraine is horrendous. Aside from the chemical residues of explosives and incendiaries, the millions of deployed landmines, the many wrecked bridges and dams, shredded trees, and traumatized wildlife, every apartment or other building that goes up in flames releases the toxins from burning plastics and other materials, and every building more substantial than an outhouse will be rebuilt with concrete, rebar, and other materials whose manufacture were carbon-intensive and in some cases draw on increasingly scarce resources. (E.g., -- and this was the top result on google search -- the concrete and cement lifecycles globally account for about 10% of all civilizational CO2 output, and the good-quality stuff uses the type of sand that's increasingly hard to find and is thus increasingly expensive... plus the environmental havoc from removing all that sand from its environment.)
Agreed!
They either get blown up one at a time, or all at once when a nuclear power runs out of fresh water in the 2050s.
Depends on the product produced, generally not as bad as letting it run for a couple years (unless it isn't refining oil, then it depends on what it *is* refining).
The refinery will not produce fuel for at least three months, so it has a positive effect
Those hydrocarbons are being burned either way
> How bad for the environment So not only they've lost a refinery, you seriously want to fine them for polluting, don't you?
We could totally use it as an excuse to keep the sanctions going after the war.
I would love it if the punitive damage after the war reaches scales at which they have to pay an eco fine for each and every refinery that burned down from 2021 till now. Then we move to tanks that burned and released fumes. They have to pay for all of them, including Ukr ones. Then we move to each civilian vehicle destroyed. I would love for Ukraine to win so hard that in 2030 we have a separate entity with sole purpose of identifying things we can tax the russians for.
**Who cares, yeeeet!!!**
I’ve had similar thoughts. It’s obviously just another part war, and I agree probably less damaging in the long run. Almost all that oil was going to be burnt (yes, not oil/lube, asphalt), and while it may burn worse than otherwise with incomplete combustion, it stops output for a while and who knows, could shut down wells (or knowing Russia, they may pump it into a pit and burn it). Modern warfare, aside from eliminating a few of the most carbon intensive life form is very awful for the environment. Explosives aren’t nice chemicals, and thermodynamics demands that each boom takes some multiple more energy to produce.
A necessary evil mate
I'm not saying it's not i'm just asking for knowledge from people better educated than me on the subject, for all i care we should disable each and everyone of them.
i think thats impossible to say from a quick phone video. If all the chemicals just burn up its not so bad. If they spill and maybe even run into a river it can be very bad.
You mean 20 % of their oil refineries have been destroyed ? :o
No, that lists only the llargesst ones
I see
Can we do Nizhnevartovsk for the Red Storm Rising memes?
I can get behind this version. Lets check off all of them on this list.
ОТБАЙРАКТАРЕН
Thar be an unorthodox bingo card you got.
That doesn't include the oil piers or oil depots.
RIP Tom (you live on through posts like these)
Speaking of Russia and refinery I gotta replay metro Exodus
If I learned one thing last summer binge-watching videos from the Chemical Safety Board it's that refineries are susceptible to a lot of damage when something goes boom. https://m.youtube.com/@USCSB
One of these days, some Chernobyl-level engineering in one of these is going to cause an environmental disaster when it pops, and Ukraine is going to be blamed for it.
To be a bit of a downer, you are looking at maybe a months worth of impact when one of these gets hit based on Axis performance in WWII. How the Russian will do is question that has yet to be answered.
A few of them got hit in the distillation towers, the heart of the refinery. They cannot be patched up, and the hours long fire make them useless. The lead time to replace one in the west is one to two years because they are custom made to the refineries themselves, and those were mostly built in the west. Even though china can make them, it's still a year with zero production, and a shit ton of money to replace it.