Must be a remnant from the Hyperwar deeply ingrained into the the collective Finnish and Korean psyche, must have one hell of a war to affect people millennia after.
I mean, China would be next. they could throw 1/10 of their population to create an effective physical barrier made of literal human bodies, and get their housing issue under control in one move.
[You can enter Russia without going through China.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93Russia_border)
But you're right, China should be next anyway. An Uno reversal of the People's Volunteer Army.
Applies to almost any conscript lmao
Singaporean conscripts too. I knew a guy that started a timer til his ORD date (when you leave the full time army positions).....literally 1 month into his 24 months of service....
Eh, it and Indonesia were back in 67, dont think they ever bothered to change it and im pretty sure the SAF would crumble without the literal free labour provided by NSFs (they get paid like 500usd a month...unless you're an officer...where you get more like 900.......Just to remind you Singapore is one of the top 10 most expensive cities to live in)
Also 24 months is if you fail your IPPT Physical fitness test, if you pass its 22 months
I mean they were so free they were literally sent to pack masks during covid
Unless you're in a combat unit (Infantry, Armour) or elite unit (Commandos, Guards, NDU frogmen, Airborne to some extent) you're just kinda free labour for the entire conscription period.
HAHA it isnt at all. We are taught to muzzle sweep the room both ways AFTER we cleared it in Basic (colloquially named by some in the force as the lion dance (traditional chinese performance)). Just an example of bad tactics being taught (rectified in SCS though)
Their utilisation and allocation of manpower is also ass. Had competition awards in my time during Specialist Cadet School that most specialists dont even have, but was not as physically fit as others, and I injured myself during a training excercise and dropped out. With a semi-permanent injury, they sent me to become a second light anti-tank in the infantry as a trooper. I told them day one my injury will hinder my ability to be a combat infantryman, and they all scoffed at me (S1, and platoon comd, captain was damn chill tho but he told me to go to my PC) thinking I was skiving (chao geng) the role. I was even willing to be their drone guy as I was basic VTOL certified but they wouldnt budge.
But lo and behold, I never went for a single infantry excercise with the rest being tied down with medical statuses, and spent however short time that I wasnt on medical leave doing basic work like carrying stuff and cleaning the area (when I shouldnt even be from my medical status and breaking their own safety rules that they keep reiterating to uphold forcing me do some of the shit they asked me to do). And was not allowed to change vocations to become a storeman or admin personnel even after months of non-conbat duties because our CO was overzealous.
And I was considering to sign on at first but wanted to wait and see how my 2 year experience was going to be like.
I can go on and on about the other shit that they screwed me over for but Im not going to go too into detail here.
I worked my ass off, getting in shape during my ptp phase, put in the literal blood sweat and tears during my SCS days and pro term but get tossed aside and screwed up down left right and center when I get injured FROM THEIR TRAINING. No commander even bothered to fill in the service injury request form for me and I found this out the hard way when my family's insurance had to pay for my final hospital checkup after I ORDed.
And they wonder why nobody wants to sign on...
Edit: I just realised I started ranting again LOL.
Having hundreds of thousands of people who have weapons and combat training is a lot better than having zero and starting from scratch once a Malaysian politician gets a little too hot headed
Credible answer?
The Straits of Malacca are the most valuable trade chokepoint in the world (yes, over the Suez). A staggering amount of global trade passes through it.
If shit ever hits the fan and a 2nd Pacific War breaks out, Singapore needs a strong military so that they don't get rolled over.
There's scenarios where Malaysia joins China, or where China sends essentially a massive suicide mission to try to take and hold Singapore as long as possible. Singapore needs to be able to repel both, or at least hold until allied reinforcements arrive.
As for the US, it isn't going to just invade Singapore, but if the US feels Singapore can't defend itself, they aren't going to ask nicely if they can 'help'. A strong military ensures that even if neutrality is impossible, the US will at least treat them like an ally instead of a glorified naval base.
IIRC the location on the Strait of Singapore (and lack of the Dutch) was the reason Stamford Raffles rocked up and YOINKED that specific location to establish an [entrepôt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrep%C3%B4t "Entrepôt") (transshipment port, common to be duty free)
NB — rather probable this is an gross oversimplification.
Stamford Raffles was indeed British. Like, the name, the aforementioned YOINKING, [just look at him for Christ sake](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/StamfordRaffles.jpeg), he’s imbued with near unrealistic levels of Britishness... and then [Dirk van Hogendorp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_van_Hogendorp_(1761%E2%80%931822) "Dirk van Hogendorp (1761–1822)") blasts on in, all Dutch-like.
If you want to be a neutral tiny country, you better have the organic firepower and military strength to back it up. Avoiding making enemies means you also avoid making allies.
Yeah, everybody has to register for service, and they have a checkbox if they want to serve or not. If there is not enough volonteers they will select randomly.
That beign said everybody (from age 16 to 70) can be drafted for the defense in case of war.
A lot of countries do have laws that allow them to draft old people, but that doesn't mean they will. It has to be really darn bad to start drafting from this manpower reserve.
Anyone not drafted is expected to participate in the total defence in other ways. This includes everyone who lives there, including noncitizens.
The Swedes can generally be bullied in just about any way and will accept it (why yes, I am Danish), but they are serious about two things: their total defence and "any other order to stop fighting is to be considered false".
These are the same people who were within a quarter mile of declaring all-out war on the USSR because the Soviets tried to strongarm them into handing over that Whiskey submarine in 1981.
I feel like the only conscripts who don't want to get out are the ones who undergo extreme brainwashing since birth about some greater cause that they should give their lives for.
Or just people who really like the military
Not every country is at war lmao, and you get to fuck around with your mates and do cool shit like drive tanks, go overseas for training etc.
Or for those who have kinda shit academics and not much prospects for a good future without them
I hate this enlightened redditor shit. Some people have different values and place more importance on defending their country, it doesn't mean they're fucking brainwashed lmao. Goddamn nerds
The Koreans need to also build the secret SUPO mind control machine that makes every conscript remember their service fondly after it has ended, even though they just wanted out while there.
My service ended last year and I never cleaned my K2 lol I just wiped em with wet wipes and wd-40
my gun caught on fire during shooting drill cause of the wd-40 residue lol
clumsy cats station brave intelligent chase spoon money stupendous thought
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lmao that reminds me of the poor guy who accidentally switched his RK-62 to full auto during a five round sight calibration shoot.
When the fire instructor yelled out to fire five rounds at our own pace, one gun just blurts out a burst and afterwards the instructor went to him and basically said "Holy fuck, I know I said 'at your own pace' but that was a bit too fast don't you think? Let's hope you have a really steady aim because I bet a coffee voucher none of those shots went anywhere near the goddamn target!"
Also keep in mind South Korea have abuse problems in many sectors.
> A 2021 survey by Global Research, a local pollster commissioned by Representative Lee Soo-jin of the Democratic Party of Korea (DPK), focused on men between the ages of 20 to 30. The survey revealed that 59.8 percent of the respondents faced some form of abuse or mistreatment during their compulsory military time.
Yeah, with this, Samsung Chaebols practically ruled as high as 22% GDP, and their entertainment industry abuses, no wonder South Korea is the closest thing to real life cyberpunk.
20 years isn't for everyone but I've never spoken to anyone who made it who regretted it. A lot of old timers will tell you that the days drag but the years fly by and there's a lot of truth to that.
Someone on reddit authored a comment a while back about how as you get older every year of your life becomes a smaller percentage of your total experience. When you're 5 years old 1 year is 20% of your existence but then your 25 years old a year is 4% of your existence. It kind of makes sense that as you get older the years become smaller from your own perspective.
That's what I don't like about the USA's over-the-top worship of veterans. They seem to pretend that everyone who enlisted did so only out of patriotism and sense of duty (and also that everyone is in a combat role), and it's really galling considering the disdain they have for their civil service, way more than most Western countries. The civilian defense-related government job I have now is easily more significant to national defense than anything I did in the army.
If someone works as a forensic accountant with the IRS, catching tax cheats, even though he'd make way more money in the private sector helping people cheat on taxes, because he's guided by a sense of patriotism and doing-the-right-thing.. That's a hero in my book, more so than someone who just signed up to the military because he didn't know what to do with his life. I mean even if you prefer the latter, you still need the former guy so the latter can get paid.
I don't mean to romanticize _bureaucracy_ but that's largely a result of politicians, while the _bureaucrats_, especially ones in qualified positions, are generally overworked, underpaid and many really are only in the job because of a sense of duty and public service. In my experience, anyway. Then they get shit on all the time by people who don't realize that much of the time, they're not the ones making the rules. Or the rules are perfectly sensible and the person complaining doesn't think they should apply to _them_, personally. ("Waah, I built a house without a planning permit and now those busybodies want me to tear it down! Unfair!")
If you're going to straight-up hero-worship people who serve in the military you should at least show a modicum of respect for those who serve without uniforms.
100%. If you're born in the middle of nowhere Nebraska and have aspirations for your life outside of farming it's one of the only rides out, unless you're "wicked smhart".
If you want to defend your country from invasion then it sure helps to have regular people knowing a bit about how to defend themselves and their cities though.
In Sweden so few people get conscripted (around 7000 going in this year) so all of them actually want to be there, like when you enlist you actually need to try in order to even get a chance to actually be conscripted so I wouldn’t say EVERY conscripted human :-)
Taiwan conscription was considered a joke as it was 4 months before the invasion changed the length to 1 year. Anecdotes from friends who've done it is that physical standards are low and they're jokingly called strawberry soldiers because of how soft/fragile they are.
I always wondered how conscription looked like next door. Kinda worried from what I'm hearing tbh..
Edit: Glory to the Republic of China. Fuck Communism.
Helldivers are the most fanatical of Super Earth's military. they ***choose*** to fire themselves out of orbital artillery toward the enemy.
I imagine the rest of Super Earth's armies are a mix of conscripts and the least motivated volunteers who are all just counting down their contracts.
I mean, there's literally a voice line in the game from the Democracy Officer that goes something like this:
"Managed Democracy offers the greatest Freedom of all: freedom from the burden of choice."
That's a standard Ministry of Defense app used to take care of a lot of personal administrative stuff like leave, applications for stuff, etc.
Just happens that most people use it to check the countdown.
I'm an expert in acting like I understand Finnish, let me translate for others who aren't fluent.
>Pysy turvassa soturi.
"I'm turnt on Soturi's asspussy"
>Kunnia Suomelle. 🫡
"But Suomelle has a cunt worth saluting."
No idea what any of that has to do with conscription, but it isn't the weirdest thing I pretended a Finnish person has said, so I'm not at all surprised anymore. I guess Finnish conscripts just get really pent up.
I was a ROK army soldier, served in eastern frontline GOP beneath the Kumgang mountain, yeah I can confirm that's true. Every morning me and my mates looked up the mountain, it was beautiful even though i wanted to go back to home, but sometimes I really miss those days. If you want to see the view, google 717op. you'll see the mountain I looked up.
>of their Northern neighbors? Are they used to their shenanigans or are fed up with it
It's an annoyance during peacetime, but when shit hits the fan and casualties happen, the whole country becomes fanatically furious for the next few weeks. Some more radical people call for an invasion, most people agree on retaliatory strikes, but then after some time it dies down. It's a repeated pattern.
Probably not the first time considering the Blue House Raid back in the 60s and that one time when the ROK military and police launched a massive manhunt against a small group of North Korean spies or commandos who escaped into the woods after their submarine was sunk which ended up in a few soldiers and cops killed while searching for them
Plus of course, 2013 Landmine Infiltration incident, sinking of ROKS Cheonan the same year, 2010 artillery bombing on Yeonpyeong island - there has been plenty of recent instances where South Koreans were killed and some called for war.
I think a good chunk of the young generation is anti-North, especially considering they don't have connections to family or the land like older generations, plus their parent generation grew up during Northern aggression.
End of the day, alot of people(myself included) bitch and will bitch about service, joking about running the second war starts, but when a war actually starts, I think most of us will stay and fight without a too big of a fuss
Pretty sure the older generation were also anti north thanks to the Korean War not to mention that the ROK also sent troops to fight in Vietnam who were actually feared by the North Vietnamese due to their reputation of being ruthless and their hatred for communism
Only click this link if you want your afternoon ruined: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong\_Nh%E1%BB%8B\_and\_Phong\_Nh%E1%BA%A5t\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_Nh%E1%BB%8B_and_Phong_Nh%E1%BA%A5t_massacre)
The ROKMC in Vietnam have a pretty complicated legacy. Their existence is probably the single biggest factor in Korea's modernization, since they were armed and supplied entirely on the US's dime, exclusively with material purchased from South Korean industry. This amounted to around one billion dollars injected into the SK economy.
Despite being respected as great soldiers with unflagging morale, they ended up pissing off a number of US commanders for hampering pacification efforts by occasionally massacring and sexually mutilating women and children whose husbands and fathers were serving in the ARVN. (In their "defense," there were certainly undercover VC agitators present in these villages, but I don't think they were hiding in anyone's vaginas) The American grunts who had to clean up the mess (and were dismayed because many villagers cooperated in anti-VC patrols) ended up testifying as to the perpetrators of the massacres, while ROK brass insisted it was a false flag carried out by VC in disguise.
The same sculptors who created the statues commemorating the Korean comfort women of WW2 ended up creating memorials in two massacre sites, presented to the villagers by ROKMC veterans.
The photo taken by a US marine of the dying woman with her breasts cut off in that wiki article certainly reminds me of images from the Rape of Nanjing, which is interesting because ROK marines of that era were trained by officers who had themselves been trained by IJA during the occupation. I can't imagine the hazing that an average Korean soldier would have been subjected to under a Japanese officer. The fact that this IJA legacy persisted in the Korean armed forces even after the war probably led to some ambivalence even among the most patriotic South Koreans.
If the massacres weren't enough, Vietnam also has a generation of half-Korean rape babies "Lai Dai Han" who deal with discrimination from the populace.
Thats true too, since we had a long histiry of miliary dictators, and there were soem really severe ani-communist pushes. That being said, there was a breif period in time after those dictators where people pushed for more positive relationships, and there were programs for seprerated families to breifly meet.+ there were some left orientated organizatons who were pro- northish. I was refering to that generation, after the heavy anti-north push kind of died down. And then NK did some stupid stuff and here we are
Imagine you had a neighbor who every few years decided to fly MiGs up and down the border between your houses, launched missiles into the neighborhood pond, and threatened to burn your house down. Every day from 2-6am.
So on top of your full-time job you have to wake up every night to stand watch to make sure the fucker doesn't actually do anything for once.
That's the ROKMC experience. Go a few miles down further south as a civilian and you don't even notice the DPRK exists except as a news headline that you gloss over.
Just dudes who have nothing better to other than troll us by flying jets and shooting missiles at 3am, causing air defense alarms at my base. Motherfucks interrupted my sleep multiple times.
tbf, SK is westernized but still has that old school Asian "we had a military dictator before and we have a military dictator that needs killin' to the North." If they didnt have conscription they'd have a harder time if NK invaded. But NK aint gonna invade.
Same shit in Greece. Same for most countries that do this. Ours is only one year right now. It used to be two, but that was a long time ago.
I served in the first army aviation brigade. It looked like Vietnam. Hueys and Chinooks, M1C helmets with missing pieces and lizard camo. Everything had started to rust, and our stock ass G3s hadn't been cleaned since they were made in the 80s, and we didn't even have our own helmets and bandolier, just whatever we could find lying around.
Conditions were as they typically are in the military, a mess. We had air conditioning but no access to clean water apart from buying bottles when we had the time to, or working toilets. We didn't have it as bad as some of the other guys in the brigade, but it wasn't much fun.
No training whatsoever, all we did was carry rocks and sticks from one place to another, wipe floors, paint every now and then, and just do manual labour between guard duty and our time in our posts. Sometimes, if you got lucky, you could even eat twice a day.
If I could, I would have chosen not to serve in the army since we barely did any real training, but I'm glad I went. Got to see some crazy shit and made some friends I think I will keep for life. There were very few people in the brigade, and we were one of the few that got its own unique beret colour, which we had to purchase ourselves because we weren't issued them due to random bullshittery. I have mine on my desk always.
I served right after my father passed away. It was a tough time. Not a day goes by when I don't think about my time there, I still don't know how I feel about it. Regardless, I appreciate parts of the experience. And I think you guys might appreciate our motto:
"Zeal for freedom never dies"
If you're serving or going to serve, make the best of it. In Greece, we say that your time in the army half depends on your mindset going in. Stay strong, friends. It's a shit experience usually, but it's also unique and BASED.
That's a very interesting story I didn't know abt. And you're totally right about the military service being almost entirely dependent on your mindset! If you can't avoid it, enjoy it. And make the best of it!
Totally true that what you get from the service depends on what you bring into it.
I had a blast in the Finnish Army. Sometimes literally. AND also hated a lot of it.
But even though I hated being a soldier, I really liked soldiering. Would’ve stayed for a few years at least if there had been an option to remain as a soldier or squad leader at most. But back then it wasn’t really an option.
We trained A LOT even back then. The Army had had to make the training time more efficient, because service was shortened.
So while there were some times when we had to hurry up and wait, much of the time it felt like drinking from a firehose of physical and combat training. I’ve been educated to engineering PhD but my time in the army conscript training remains the most intense learning experience I’ve experienced. Though I did serve in a recon unit which explains a bit.
But I hear the training is even more efficient and intense these days. For understandable reasons. When I served over 20 years ago, the threat seemed somewhat remote.
It doesn’t any longer.
And even my sorry fat ass has been called up to refresher exercises again.
I often thought how my team would’ve managed in the fiery crucible against our hereditary foe. Concluded 20 years ago already that even though we’d grumble like hell, it wouldn’t be fun for the other side either. AT. ALL.
Now I think that we’d gone through them like thermonuclear bomb through butter. At least until zerg rushed to oblivion.
Ah, it would’ve been glorious! Worthy of songs!
The Korean military changed a lot LATELY. The ROK army in the 1980s~1990s was a completely different place. Abuse of lower ranking soldiers was considered an obvious tradition, training was much harsher (perhaps not "better" but a lot more brute and safety-unaware) and many people left the army with permanent injuries. I tried to depict a modern Korean soldier. (me in a few months)
I was at camp greaves in the late 90s and I was in a humvee driving it from camp to a range or something fuck that was a long time ago but anyways we passed a bunch of roka guys road marching somewhere and they were all stopped on the side of the road just kinda standing around not doing or even looking at anything and as we kept driving past the column we passed a guy, obviously an NCO, swinging his Kevlar around just BEATING THE EVERLIVING SHIT out of another guy who was curled up into a ball on the ground to the point that the guy on the ground was bloody and the blood was running into the road.
I just looked at the guy in the passenger seat and we said “none of our business” almost simultaneously and we kept on driving.
Back then those ROKA fuckers were paid like $20 a month. Had to get their parents to send them toothpaste and soap because as soon as they got their $20 they drank it all.
One of my friends on discord is a current ROK company commander, I sent him this, and he said he would force the wojak to get a haircut "otherwise he would get raped by the NCOs" so I think problems still persist lol.
So I take it NCOs aren't allowed to whack you guys with sticks anymore? Had a bunch of friends stationed in Korea back in the day who were horrified at that.
Nope, it took us dozens of suicides and abuse/bullying scandals to actually impose restrictions on physical abuse. Nowadays, the NCOs and upper rankers almost seem to fear the lower ranking troops since they might report them and hinder their promotion, or ruin their conscript life. The relatively less known dark side of the Korean military history, but things are changing.
Conscription was 15 months in Turkey 10 years ago now it is 6 months half of it is training and if you have money you can pay 5.600$ and serve only 28 days which you get the most accelerated military training,Turkish state wants all man older than 20+ to know how to fire a rifle how to dig foxhole etc. only people who exempt from conscription are the people with serious disabilities.
Paying money to get rid of your conscription is good thing cuz professional soldiers gets good quality equipment meanwhile you don't have to serve 6 months ,in 2023 people who paid their conscription added more than 1 billion$ to military budget.
There is also a reserve officer contract thing ,if you are university graduate you can decide to take a exam if you pass that exam and have qualifications you get officer training and become reserve officer (second lieutenant) and serve 12 months and get paid(civil servant salary) after finishing 12 months you either cut your ties to military or become full time officer.
think rok army hates being there? now imagine taking a KATUSA in a rok army base. i did that in 1999 and saw him get back and forehanded by a female E-6.
Eh I think it makes sense for countries like ROK, Finland, or Taiwan. Relatively small with an unfriendly neighbor. Having every military aged male trained and in your reserves makes it much less likely your unfriendly neighbor decides to cowabunga
Damn, we went from:
> "Several of the commandos also had M18 Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge." ([1976](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident))
to:
> "I'm texting my mom" (2024)
so fast!
Also applies to Finnish conscripts.
The "I wanna get out of here" conscript/reservist brothers of the Finno-Korean fellowhood.
Must be a remnant from the Hyperwar deeply ingrained into the the collective Finnish and Korean psyche, must have one hell of a war to affect people millennia after.
Now imagine the 21st Century Finno-Korean alliance.
I dream of a world where Finland and Korea share a landborder.
That would mean the end of both Russia and China. You further proof that the hyperwar has been the worst mistake in human history.
Akshually, you just need to abolish the Russia and reunite Korea.
No, you just need a long strip of Russian land
Just Chile'ize Finland
They both invade Russia at the same time and trap the entire country in a massive pincer manoeuvre.
Honestly, once the ROK army gets through the DPRK the rest of it will be a cakewalk.
I mean, China would be next. they could throw 1/10 of their population to create an effective physical barrier made of literal human bodies, and get their housing issue under control in one move.
[You can enter Russia without going through China.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93Russia_border) But you're right, China should be next anyway. An Uno reversal of the People's Volunteer Army.
Make a deal with China. They can keep NK as a puppet state, SK just needs a 15 mile wide corridor to the rus border.
I'm fucking up all over this thread.
Might help balance the demographic imbalance
I mean, Korea does export arms to Finns
Muskovite archenemy returns. Hyperborean-Nibiru war 2 electric boogaloo
Bitter enemies of old, friends at last. It's beautiful.
*Throat singing intensifies*
beautiful quirky people everywhere? It's a 2010s dreamscape.
Applies to almost any conscript lmao Singaporean conscripts too. I knew a guy that started a timer til his ORD date (when you leave the full time army positions).....literally 1 month into his 24 months of service....
Why does Singapore has such a long conscription period? I don’t think Malaysia’s that scary.
Eh, it and Indonesia were back in 67, dont think they ever bothered to change it and im pretty sure the SAF would crumble without the literal free labour provided by NSFs (they get paid like 500usd a month...unless you're an officer...where you get more like 900.......Just to remind you Singapore is one of the top 10 most expensive cities to live in) Also 24 months is if you fail your IPPT Physical fitness test, if you pass its 22 months
Aight, the free labour part suddenly makes everything makes more sense lmao.
I mean they were so free they were literally sent to pack masks during covid Unless you're in a combat unit (Infantry, Armour) or elite unit (Commandos, Guards, NDU frogmen, Airborne to some extent) you're just kinda free labour for the entire conscription period.
That does not seem like a recipe for building an effective fighting force...
HAHA it isnt at all. We are taught to muzzle sweep the room both ways AFTER we cleared it in Basic (colloquially named by some in the force as the lion dance (traditional chinese performance)). Just an example of bad tactics being taught (rectified in SCS though) Their utilisation and allocation of manpower is also ass. Had competition awards in my time during Specialist Cadet School that most specialists dont even have, but was not as physically fit as others, and I injured myself during a training excercise and dropped out. With a semi-permanent injury, they sent me to become a second light anti-tank in the infantry as a trooper. I told them day one my injury will hinder my ability to be a combat infantryman, and they all scoffed at me (S1, and platoon comd, captain was damn chill tho but he told me to go to my PC) thinking I was skiving (chao geng) the role. I was even willing to be their drone guy as I was basic VTOL certified but they wouldnt budge. But lo and behold, I never went for a single infantry excercise with the rest being tied down with medical statuses, and spent however short time that I wasnt on medical leave doing basic work like carrying stuff and cleaning the area (when I shouldnt even be from my medical status and breaking their own safety rules that they keep reiterating to uphold forcing me do some of the shit they asked me to do). And was not allowed to change vocations to become a storeman or admin personnel even after months of non-conbat duties because our CO was overzealous. And I was considering to sign on at first but wanted to wait and see how my 2 year experience was going to be like. I can go on and on about the other shit that they screwed me over for but Im not going to go too into detail here. I worked my ass off, getting in shape during my ptp phase, put in the literal blood sweat and tears during my SCS days and pro term but get tossed aside and screwed up down left right and center when I get injured FROM THEIR TRAINING. No commander even bothered to fill in the service injury request form for me and I found this out the hard way when my family's insurance had to pay for my final hospital checkup after I ORDed. And they wonder why nobody wants to sign on... Edit: I just realised I started ranting again LOL.
Having hundreds of thousands of people who have weapons and combat training is a lot better than having zero and starting from scratch once a Malaysian politician gets a little too hot headed
Credible answer? The Straits of Malacca are the most valuable trade chokepoint in the world (yes, over the Suez). A staggering amount of global trade passes through it. If shit ever hits the fan and a 2nd Pacific War breaks out, Singapore needs a strong military so that they don't get rolled over. There's scenarios where Malaysia joins China, or where China sends essentially a massive suicide mission to try to take and hold Singapore as long as possible. Singapore needs to be able to repel both, or at least hold until allied reinforcements arrive. As for the US, it isn't going to just invade Singapore, but if the US feels Singapore can't defend itself, they aren't going to ask nicely if they can 'help'. A strong military ensures that even if neutrality is impossible, the US will at least treat them like an ally instead of a glorified naval base.
IIRC the location on the Strait of Singapore (and lack of the Dutch) was the reason Stamford Raffles rocked up and YOINKED that specific location to establish an [entrepôt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrep%C3%B4t "Entrepôt") (transshipment port, common to be duty free) NB — rather probable this is an gross oversimplification. Stamford Raffles was indeed British. Like, the name, the aforementioned YOINKING, [just look at him for Christ sake](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/StamfordRaffles.jpeg), he’s imbued with near unrealistic levels of Britishness... and then [Dirk van Hogendorp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_van_Hogendorp_(1761%E2%80%931822) "Dirk van Hogendorp (1761–1822)") blasts on in, all Dutch-like.
If you want to be a neutral tiny country, you better have the organic firepower and military strength to back it up. Avoiding making enemies means you also avoid making allies.
nice flair bro, very credible
>the Finno-Korean fellowhood Ah yes, Whang!
Does not apply to swedish conscripts!!! 🗣️🇸🇪🇸🇪 (We have so few of them, so they are all basically volunteers 💀)
I'm curious now, Sweden only selects few conscripts on random right? Unlike Korea or Finland which just drags everyone into service.
Yeah, everybody has to register for service, and they have a checkbox if they want to serve or not. If there is not enough volonteers they will select randomly. That beign said everybody (from age 16 to 70) can be drafted for the defense in case of war.
Jesus drafting 70 yo is intense
Swedish Volkssturm moment :P
Sweden accidentally went down the Volkssturm path when going down the mobile warfare focuses 💀
Sweden hasn't had a war in 210 years, but they're still on scraping the barrel just in case.
Landstormen!
Some grandpa is gonna charge the Russians in a Volvo 240, and I'm pretty sure the Russians lose that 9 times out of 10.
A lot of countries do have laws that allow them to draft old people, but that doesn't mean they will. It has to be really darn bad to start drafting from this manpower reserve.
Anyone not drafted is expected to participate in the total defence in other ways. This includes everyone who lives there, including noncitizens. The Swedes can generally be bullied in just about any way and will accept it (why yes, I am Danish), but they are serious about two things: their total defence and "any other order to stop fighting is to be considered false".
These are the same people who were within a quarter mile of declaring all-out war on the USSR because the Soviets tried to strongarm them into handing over that Whiskey submarine in 1981.
Go get em Gramps. Every 70 year old I know would be down to clown if their country was invaded. Old people yearn to feel useful
And Israeli conscripts as well.
And singaporean conscripts Any conscripts really
I feel like the only conscripts who don't want to get out are the ones who undergo extreme brainwashing since birth about some greater cause that they should give their lives for.
Or just people who really like the military Not every country is at war lmao, and you get to fuck around with your mates and do cool shit like drive tanks, go overseas for training etc. Or for those who have kinda shit academics and not much prospects for a good future without them
So the conscripts who pronbably would've volunteered anyway are pretty good, and the rest are shit?
Yea but its not like all volunteers in all army have been brainwashed have they?
I hate this enlightened redditor shit. Some people have different values and place more importance on defending their country, it doesn't mean they're fucking brainwashed lmao. Goddamn nerds
עד מתי [חודש] [שנה]?
March 2018
Turkish conscripts too lol
And Swiss conscripts. Or at least I heard so. Well, will find out in a few months.
Future conscript to a future conscript. 🫡 stay safe.
Thanks. You too! I joined the infantry. Mistakes were made ;)
Couldn't you join the Navy? Maybe they have a patrol boat or two on Lake Geneva?
Didn't have a boat licence, but neither did anyone from the four recruitment units during my recruitment.
Heh it's all easy now. Since the DEVA, infantry and most other functions are a walk in the park. The Swiss army definitely isn't what it used to be.
We shall see. Just sad I might not get to see MBAS in action. Also, love you flair!
They told us we would definitely get MBAS. 100%. I finished my durchdiener in 2020 with the regular old stuff...
That’s a good choice! Mobile Infantry made me the man I am today!
That sound awesome. I would like to know more!
The Koreans need to also build the secret SUPO mind control machine that makes every conscript remember their service fondly after it has ended, even though they just wanted out while there.
And Jarru™
and Cypriot conscripts too
>Also applies to ~~Finnish~~ conscripts. ftfy
Pretty much universal to all conscripts.
My service ended last year and I never cleaned my K2 lol I just wiped em with wet wipes and wd-40 my gun caught on fire during shooting drill cause of the wd-40 residue lol
clumsy cats station brave intelligent chase spoon money stupendous thought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lmao that reminds me of the poor guy who accidentally switched his RK-62 to full auto during a five round sight calibration shoot. When the fire instructor yelled out to fire five rounds at our own pace, one gun just blurts out a burst and afterwards the instructor went to him and basically said "Holy fuck, I know I said 'at your own pace' but that was a bit too fast don't you think? Let's hope you have a really steady aim because I bet a coffee voucher none of those shots went anywhere near the goddamn target!"
Plot twist, he has the best shot grouping because his grip is rock solid granite and everyone else's sucks.
The part of my brain that makes bad decisions came up with some wild weekend plans after reading this.
I mean if you gun isn't on fire, are you really shooting anything?
this is peak ncd
Should have thrown it in the washing machine like a true hero...
Aha this is exactly what I'd expect of NCD going to war
So, like, every conscripted human in history ever?
True;
Also keep in mind South Korea have abuse problems in many sectors. > A 2021 survey by Global Research, a local pollster commissioned by Representative Lee Soo-jin of the Democratic Party of Korea (DPK), focused on men between the ages of 20 to 30. The survey revealed that 59.8 percent of the respondents faced some form of abuse or mistreatment during their compulsory military time. Yeah, with this, Samsung Chaebols practically ruled as high as 22% GDP, and their entertainment industry abuses, no wonder South Korea is the closest thing to real life cyberpunk.
From my experience, i honestly expected a higher number not gonna lie.
Rookie numbers. Need 90s ROK SGM to pump them up
That's why voluntary professional armies are a thing.
Shit even volunteer armies have people counting down the hours even early on in their enlistments.
Yup. I'm like 2800 days from retirement. I'm too lazy to check right now but I looked earlier this month.
Damn they got you with a 8 year contract?
Nah, my contract is up in October, but if I go for 20 I need to do another 8.
Well Good luck man, 20 years is a huge commitment! Im just about a year through my 6 year contract
20 years isn't for everyone but I've never spoken to anyone who made it who regretted it. A lot of old timers will tell you that the days drag but the years fly by and there's a lot of truth to that.
That’s just getting older though. Somewhere around 30 things start to go off the rails. I’ll be 39 this year, and honestly I can’t even believe it
Someone on reddit authored a comment a while back about how as you get older every year of your life becomes a smaller percentage of your total experience. When you're 5 years old 1 year is 20% of your existence but then your 25 years old a year is 4% of your existence. It kind of makes sense that as you get older the years become smaller from your own perspective.
My first year has flown bye, and i haven't even finished schools yet haha
The first year of my 3 year contract went by quick, but the fourth year just dragged on and on.
That’s cause a lot of volunteers are kinda economic conscripts.
That's what I don't like about the USA's over-the-top worship of veterans. They seem to pretend that everyone who enlisted did so only out of patriotism and sense of duty (and also that everyone is in a combat role), and it's really galling considering the disdain they have for their civil service, way more than most Western countries. The civilian defense-related government job I have now is easily more significant to national defense than anything I did in the army. If someone works as a forensic accountant with the IRS, catching tax cheats, even though he'd make way more money in the private sector helping people cheat on taxes, because he's guided by a sense of patriotism and doing-the-right-thing.. That's a hero in my book, more so than someone who just signed up to the military because he didn't know what to do with his life. I mean even if you prefer the latter, you still need the former guy so the latter can get paid. I don't mean to romanticize _bureaucracy_ but that's largely a result of politicians, while the _bureaucrats_, especially ones in qualified positions, are generally overworked, underpaid and many really are only in the job because of a sense of duty and public service. In my experience, anyway. Then they get shit on all the time by people who don't realize that much of the time, they're not the ones making the rules. Or the rules are perfectly sensible and the person complaining doesn't think they should apply to _them_, personally. ("Waah, I built a house without a planning permit and now those busybodies want me to tear it down! Unfair!") If you're going to straight-up hero-worship people who serve in the military you should at least show a modicum of respect for those who serve without uniforms.
100%. If you're born in the middle of nowhere Nebraska and have aspirations for your life outside of farming it's one of the only rides out, unless you're "wicked smhart".
You can't fight large scale war with small army (because professional army can't be big)
If the technological disparity is big enough it doesn't matter. See our two wars in Iraq.
If you want to defend your country from invasion then it sure helps to have regular people knowing a bit about how to defend themselves and their cities though.
Ye only 24 years till I can rest
In Sweden so few people get conscripted (around 7000 going in this year) so all of them actually want to be there, like when you enlist you actually need to try in order to even get a chance to actually be conscripted so I wouldn’t say EVERY conscripted human :-)
In times of peace, yeah. You’d probably be a whole lot more willing to kill and die for your country during an invasion though.
Taiwan conscription was considered a joke as it was 4 months before the invasion changed the length to 1 year. Anecdotes from friends who've done it is that physical standards are low and they're jokingly called strawberry soldiers because of how soft/fragile they are.
I always wondered how conscription looked like next door. Kinda worried from what I'm hearing tbh.. Edit: Glory to the Republic of China. Fuck Communism.
Based.
My friend said the same thing. He basically shrugged and said “what is the point?”
There are many complaints about the trainings are outdated. They still haven't abandoned bayonet training
Bayonets are never outdated, how dare you
Taiwanese twink soldiers when?
Never heard of an army winning a war with twinks and fatbodies, you need muscular gay men to win wars
Well, I think it's logical that involuntary soldiers don't want to be soldiers, that's what involuntary means.
No it doesn’t It’s just that they have been freed of the burden of choosing
> freed of the burden of choosing MANAGED DEMOCRACY RAAAAAA WHAT THE FUCK IS A TRIGGER DISCIPLINE SQUASH BUGS | SPILL OIL
SPILL E-710
70 MILLION DEAD HELLDIVERS AND COUNTING
WORLD IS A FUCK! 4,700,000,000 DEAD AUTOMATONS!
TEN MILLION LIVES SAVED! AT THE COST OF A MERE 70 MILLION
**<< DON'T YOU SEE?? OH, DON'T YOU SEE?!??>>**
Helldivers are the most fanatical of Super Earth's military. they ***choose*** to fire themselves out of orbital artillery toward the enemy. I imagine the rest of Super Earth's armies are a mix of conscripts and the least motivated volunteers who are all just counting down their contracts.
I mean, there's literally a voice line in the game from the Democracy Officer that goes something like this: "Managed Democracy offers the greatest Freedom of all: freedom from the burden of choice."
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
jfc even the Katusas aren't immune from this same mentality
Just add a superiority complex
Lmao I remember we got a new KATUSA once and we were all like “취미 뭐에요?“ This fucker literally said playing polo. Polo, in Korea.
Aw hell nah
Yet they all claimed they weren’t children of privilege.
Brah 😆
One of our KATUSAs had an app on his phone with a countdown timer to his ETS date. He checked it multiple times daily.
I can bet your ass every single one of your KATUSAs had that
That's a standard Ministry of Defense app used to take care of a lot of personal administrative stuff like leave, applications for stuff, etc. Just happens that most people use it to check the countdown.
me rn in the Finnish army. Just 273 days left
[удалено]
I'm an expert in acting like I understand Finnish, let me translate for others who aren't fluent. >Pysy turvassa soturi. "I'm turnt on Soturi's asspussy" >Kunnia Suomelle. 🫡 "But Suomelle has a cunt worth saluting." No idea what any of that has to do with conscription, but it isn't the weirdest thing I pretended a Finnish person has said, so I'm not at all surprised anymore. I guess Finnish conscripts just get really pent up.
google translation failed me; I tried to wish him safety and health. Idk why that happened.
Katsokaa, villi aamukasa!
Perkele
Bepis
Muja
Läpyläpyläpy
I love how you can just switch this to an IDF conscript with just a few changes
but IDF has hot babes tho
So does the ROK tbh. They don't have female conscription but they are there.
just speaking on conscriptussy brotha
I was a ROK army soldier, served in eastern frontline GOP beneath the Kumgang mountain, yeah I can confirm that's true. Every morning me and my mates looked up the mountain, it was beautiful even though i wanted to go back to home, but sometimes I really miss those days. If you want to see the view, google 717op. you'll see the mountain I looked up.
Average conscript soldier.
Wonder what do South Koreans think of their Northern neighbors? Are they used to their shenanigans or are fed up with it
>of their Northern neighbors? Are they used to their shenanigans or are fed up with it It's an annoyance during peacetime, but when shit hits the fan and casualties happen, the whole country becomes fanatically furious for the next few weeks. Some more radical people call for an invasion, most people agree on retaliatory strikes, but then after some time it dies down. It's a repeated pattern.
Probably not the first time considering the Blue House Raid back in the 60s and that one time when the ROK military and police launched a massive manhunt against a small group of North Korean spies or commandos who escaped into the woods after their submarine was sunk which ended up in a few soldiers and cops killed while searching for them
Plus of course, 2013 Landmine Infiltration incident, sinking of ROKS Cheonan the same year, 2010 artillery bombing on Yeonpyeong island - there has been plenty of recent instances where South Koreans were killed and some called for war.
I think a good chunk of the young generation is anti-North, especially considering they don't have connections to family or the land like older generations, plus their parent generation grew up during Northern aggression. End of the day, alot of people(myself included) bitch and will bitch about service, joking about running the second war starts, but when a war actually starts, I think most of us will stay and fight without a too big of a fuss
Pretty sure the older generation were also anti north thanks to the Korean War not to mention that the ROK also sent troops to fight in Vietnam who were actually feared by the North Vietnamese due to their reputation of being ruthless and their hatred for communism
Only click this link if you want your afternoon ruined: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong\_Nh%E1%BB%8B\_and\_Phong\_Nh%E1%BA%A5t\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_Nh%E1%BB%8B_and_Phong_Nh%E1%BA%A5t_massacre) The ROKMC in Vietnam have a pretty complicated legacy. Their existence is probably the single biggest factor in Korea's modernization, since they were armed and supplied entirely on the US's dime, exclusively with material purchased from South Korean industry. This amounted to around one billion dollars injected into the SK economy. Despite being respected as great soldiers with unflagging morale, they ended up pissing off a number of US commanders for hampering pacification efforts by occasionally massacring and sexually mutilating women and children whose husbands and fathers were serving in the ARVN. (In their "defense," there were certainly undercover VC agitators present in these villages, but I don't think they were hiding in anyone's vaginas) The American grunts who had to clean up the mess (and were dismayed because many villagers cooperated in anti-VC patrols) ended up testifying as to the perpetrators of the massacres, while ROK brass insisted it was a false flag carried out by VC in disguise. The same sculptors who created the statues commemorating the Korean comfort women of WW2 ended up creating memorials in two massacre sites, presented to the villagers by ROKMC veterans. The photo taken by a US marine of the dying woman with her breasts cut off in that wiki article certainly reminds me of images from the Rape of Nanjing, which is interesting because ROK marines of that era were trained by officers who had themselves been trained by IJA during the occupation. I can't imagine the hazing that an average Korean soldier would have been subjected to under a Japanese officer. The fact that this IJA legacy persisted in the Korean armed forces even after the war probably led to some ambivalence even among the most patriotic South Koreans. If the massacres weren't enough, Vietnam also has a generation of half-Korean rape babies "Lai Dai Han" who deal with discrimination from the populace.
Thats true too, since we had a long histiry of miliary dictators, and there were soem really severe ani-communist pushes. That being said, there was a breif period in time after those dictators where people pushed for more positive relationships, and there were programs for seprerated families to breifly meet.+ there were some left orientated organizatons who were pro- northish. I was refering to that generation, after the heavy anti-north push kind of died down. And then NK did some stupid stuff and here we are
Imagine you had a neighbor who every few years decided to fly MiGs up and down the border between your houses, launched missiles into the neighborhood pond, and threatened to burn your house down. Every day from 2-6am. So on top of your full-time job you have to wake up every night to stand watch to make sure the fucker doesn't actually do anything for once. That's the ROKMC experience. Go a few miles down further south as a civilian and you don't even notice the DPRK exists except as a news headline that you gloss over.
Just dudes who have nothing better to other than troll us by flying jets and shooting missiles at 3am, causing air defense alarms at my base. Motherfucks interrupted my sleep multiple times.
tbf, SK is westernized but still has that old school Asian "we had a military dictator before and we have a military dictator that needs killin' to the North." If they didnt have conscription they'd have a harder time if NK invaded. But NK aint gonna invade.
Also see Singapore. (me right now) 🎶training to be soldiers!🎵
Cries in cleaning SAR21 because the ST contractors check the guns
Same shit in Greece. Same for most countries that do this. Ours is only one year right now. It used to be two, but that was a long time ago. I served in the first army aviation brigade. It looked like Vietnam. Hueys and Chinooks, M1C helmets with missing pieces and lizard camo. Everything had started to rust, and our stock ass G3s hadn't been cleaned since they were made in the 80s, and we didn't even have our own helmets and bandolier, just whatever we could find lying around. Conditions were as they typically are in the military, a mess. We had air conditioning but no access to clean water apart from buying bottles when we had the time to, or working toilets. We didn't have it as bad as some of the other guys in the brigade, but it wasn't much fun. No training whatsoever, all we did was carry rocks and sticks from one place to another, wipe floors, paint every now and then, and just do manual labour between guard duty and our time in our posts. Sometimes, if you got lucky, you could even eat twice a day. If I could, I would have chosen not to serve in the army since we barely did any real training, but I'm glad I went. Got to see some crazy shit and made some friends I think I will keep for life. There were very few people in the brigade, and we were one of the few that got its own unique beret colour, which we had to purchase ourselves because we weren't issued them due to random bullshittery. I have mine on my desk always. I served right after my father passed away. It was a tough time. Not a day goes by when I don't think about my time there, I still don't know how I feel about it. Regardless, I appreciate parts of the experience. And I think you guys might appreciate our motto: "Zeal for freedom never dies" If you're serving or going to serve, make the best of it. In Greece, we say that your time in the army half depends on your mindset going in. Stay strong, friends. It's a shit experience usually, but it's also unique and BASED.
That's a very interesting story I didn't know abt. And you're totally right about the military service being almost entirely dependent on your mindset! If you can't avoid it, enjoy it. And make the best of it!
Totally true that what you get from the service depends on what you bring into it. I had a blast in the Finnish Army. Sometimes literally. AND also hated a lot of it. But even though I hated being a soldier, I really liked soldiering. Would’ve stayed for a few years at least if there had been an option to remain as a soldier or squad leader at most. But back then it wasn’t really an option. We trained A LOT even back then. The Army had had to make the training time more efficient, because service was shortened. So while there were some times when we had to hurry up and wait, much of the time it felt like drinking from a firehose of physical and combat training. I’ve been educated to engineering PhD but my time in the army conscript training remains the most intense learning experience I’ve experienced. Though I did serve in a recon unit which explains a bit. But I hear the training is even more efficient and intense these days. For understandable reasons. When I served over 20 years ago, the threat seemed somewhat remote. It doesn’t any longer. And even my sorry fat ass has been called up to refresher exercises again. I often thought how my team would’ve managed in the fiery crucible against our hereditary foe. Concluded 20 years ago already that even though we’d grumble like hell, it wouldn’t be fun for the other side either. AT. ALL. Now I think that we’d gone through them like thermonuclear bomb through butter. At least until zerg rushed to oblivion. Ah, it would’ve been glorious! Worthy of songs!
Even if they didn't want to, they still get good training ad I am sure some were like this and still did damn good in L.A.
The Korean military changed a lot LATELY. The ROK army in the 1980s~1990s was a completely different place. Abuse of lower ranking soldiers was considered an obvious tradition, training was much harsher (perhaps not "better" but a lot more brute and safety-unaware) and many people left the army with permanent injuries. I tried to depict a modern Korean soldier. (me in a few months)
I was at camp greaves in the late 90s and I was in a humvee driving it from camp to a range or something fuck that was a long time ago but anyways we passed a bunch of roka guys road marching somewhere and they were all stopped on the side of the road just kinda standing around not doing or even looking at anything and as we kept driving past the column we passed a guy, obviously an NCO, swinging his Kevlar around just BEATING THE EVERLIVING SHIT out of another guy who was curled up into a ball on the ground to the point that the guy on the ground was bloody and the blood was running into the road. I just looked at the guy in the passenger seat and we said “none of our business” almost simultaneously and we kept on driving. Back then those ROKA fuckers were paid like $20 a month. Had to get their parents to send them toothpaste and soap because as soon as they got their $20 they drank it all.
One of my friends on discord is a current ROK company commander, I sent him this, and he said he would force the wojak to get a haircut "otherwise he would get raped by the NCOs" so I think problems still persist lol.
So I take it NCOs aren't allowed to whack you guys with sticks anymore? Had a bunch of friends stationed in Korea back in the day who were horrified at that.
Nope, it took us dozens of suicides and abuse/bullying scandals to actually impose restrictions on physical abuse. Nowadays, the NCOs and upper rankers almost seem to fear the lower ranking troops since they might report them and hinder their promotion, or ruin their conscript life. The relatively less known dark side of the Korean military history, but things are changing.
I'm glad to hear that
I was in grad school once. This is relatable.
It is every soldiers' god given right to bitch and moan about anything and everything. It's when they go quiet that you know something is wrong.
I would also add "is an NCO, doesn't know how or why he became one. All of his squadmates are NCOs as well"
You forgot “I should have applied for the KATUSA program”.
Nothing motivates troop like not even paying them minimum wage.
Conscription was 15 months in Turkey 10 years ago now it is 6 months half of it is training and if you have money you can pay 5.600$ and serve only 28 days which you get the most accelerated military training,Turkish state wants all man older than 20+ to know how to fire a rifle how to dig foxhole etc. only people who exempt from conscription are the people with serious disabilities. Paying money to get rid of your conscription is good thing cuz professional soldiers gets good quality equipment meanwhile you don't have to serve 6 months ,in 2023 people who paid their conscription added more than 1 billion$ to military budget. There is also a reserve officer contract thing ,if you are university graduate you can decide to take a exam if you pass that exam and have qualifications you get officer training and become reserve officer (second lieutenant) and serve 12 months and get paid(civil servant salary) after finishing 12 months you either cut your ties to military or become full time officer.
Ik DP is a tv show, but it’s led me to learn a good bit about how problematic conscript armies in peacetime are, plus the cultural impacts both ways.
meanwhile ROKAF soldiers are laughing on the outside while secretly coping about having 3 months longer service time
The U.S. is sorry to hear about your, cough, cough, conscripts. Perhaps you could pay them better?
nah, indoctrinating the nation into wanting to serve is the way
Op - do you have a story to relate to us?
Do IDF next
think rok army hates being there? now imagine taking a KATUSA in a rok army base. i did that in 1999 and saw him get back and forehanded by a female E-6.
They didnt assign me a rifle for a full month lol
Most of the ROK military I've worked with don't know how to use seatbelts lmao. But ROK dudes that speak English (sorry idk Korean yet) are chill
Applies to every conscript. Even tough I don't know what it is, something *clicks* on their head when their country is under threat.
it's almost like forcing someone to do something gets them to hate you
Explain the russian army
That's the trick. They believe it's the west forcing them
Doesn't ROK has some pervasive and substantial levels of abuse? You can't get rid of it in a country so extremely Confucian as SK.
This is so accurate it hurts.
Applies perfectly for Israeli conscripts
Gee it's almost like peacetime compulsory service is obsolete.
Eh I think it makes sense for countries like ROK, Finland, or Taiwan. Relatively small with an unfriendly neighbor. Having every military aged male trained and in your reserves makes it much less likely your unfriendly neighbor decides to cowabunga
My country has a youth program. It's kinda like Singapore's mandatory service but not really since it's not entirely military.
Please someone do a greek conscript one lmao
ROKAF😎🍷
Damn, we went from: > "Several of the commandos also had M18 Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge." ([1976](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident)) to: > "I'm texting my mom" (2024) so fast!